Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 241: Serial Killers And The Women Who Love Them

Episode Date: September 25, 2016

It's an episode of hybristophiliacs today on Last Podcast as we cover the jailhouse lovers of Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, and David Berkowitz, plus the saddest serial killer love story of all: Star and Charles Manson. Awesome Call Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Man, I've been spending all week in Santa Clarita, California. I had a car without an XM radio. You know what I was listening to the entire time?

Lithium radio. And it had all the grunge I could handle. It had the STP that I needed. AIC. You got fuel. Stabbing Westward. This is a bad day. I'm saying I felt very relevant.

It's the first time because my sounds are playing on the radio again. White man's music. You did that. That's what it is. You didn't name any band that even remotely had someone who wasn't white. Oh, I'm pretty certain Stabbing Westward had a name to America. I don't think so. Why don't you list off what you've been listening to this week, Mr. I'm So Culturally.

I listened to Ray Lewis. He's a former linebacker from the Baltimore Ravens. He's got an album? If you listen to when he speaks on loud volume, it's like a song. What? I don't know. I'm always listening to different kinds of people. People, you're just saying people.

You're just talking like walking out of the street listening to people talk. That's not music. That's a podcast. He's trying to sound like an anthropologist. Ray! I love Ray. He couldn't see. All right.

So today, we've got a very Jerry Springer episode for you guys today. It's Serial Killers and the Women that Love Them. And this is the last podcast on the left. They know it's the last podcast on the left. There's just the whole intro. You've got to intro it though. You have to do it. All right.

Welcome to the last podcast on the left, everyone. I am Ben Gissel. That's Marcus Parks. Who am I? You're Henry Zabrowski. Oh, thank God I'm not somebody else. Oh, my goodness. All right.

Springer episode, Serial Killers and the Women that Love Them. You know what I'm actually kind of sad about? There's no book with Serial Killers and the dudes that blow them. Well, someone will write it now. Thank you. So the phenomenon of women who become romantically obsessed with Serial Killers is often but not always related to a paraffilia known as hybristophilia, a.k.a. Bonnie and Clyde syndrome.

That's in which a person is aroused by knowing that their partner is a bad person or has done something bad. Not naughty bad. Like needs a spanking. Naughty bad. Right. Bad, like, like. Murdered a bunch of people.

Yes, or lying, or cheating, or stealing. But in this case, in extreme cases, people are really into when someone is a murderer or a rapist. Or in this case, many Serial Killers we're going to talk about today. Both. Yes, absolutely. See, there's an element of danger to these killers that is somehow not satisfied by a simple sexual role play.

These women need something more exciting, more real. In fact, there was a study done by the University of Turku Extreme Sports Science Psychology Division that demonstrated just this. No, so you mean to tell me, they just gave a bunch of ex-gamers lab coats. Yeah. And they get to be a university? Yeah, they get to skateboard to work and have a super cool job title, but it doesn't seem like they know what their job is because this has nothing to do with extreme sports.

No lab should ever have the word extreme in the title at all. Not at all. Unless they are like the test kitchen for Doritos. Our beakers are huge. See, they found that when they did a body function measurement of women who visited their dangerous mates in prison that the results of the women's body functions were very much in line with that of people who participated in extreme sports. So they were like, have a woman sit down, and the first thing they do is like watch

them like stab a pig. And then they recorded, they put a bunch of things on her nipples and all over her body, and then they put her on a roller coaster? It's kind of crazy. It's so bad for the extreme athletes who worked their tails off their whole life to get good at snowboarding. Turns out all they had to do was bang Eileen Ward us. That's all they had to do, and you just have to get it through the prison system to get

to her. That's tough to do. These women sound like they'd be great for the dating pool for last podcast on the left. Could be. A woman that loves to watch somebody get murdered and ride a roller coaster, I'm dating one and I love it. It is kind of a good Coney Island date. Well, let's hear from one of these women who are absolutely obsessed and in love with

zero killers. This is an incredible documentary. It's from the series First Person by Errol Morris, and I think about this woman all the time. All the time? Yes. No? Are you thinking about it right now?

I'm having one. A weird one. You know, when you're a little kid, they always tell you the boogeyman's going to get you and you're supposed to be scared. I always had a fantasy or a dream that the boogeyman came and he's like riding on this black stallion and he comes to my window and he comes to get me and I jump on the horse with him and like I wrap my arms around his waist and I get up under his cape and we fly away.

This is like the problem. Every guy who just smells like salami and rides a motorcycle is like, some chick is going to think this is really hot and that chick does think it's really hot and those guys continue to act the way they do because of it. That is a true crime author, Sandra London, who married two serial killers, left one to marry another. And that's really the saddest day of the first, that's just going to suck to get divorced in prison.

She's like, what do you mean? I got nothing to give! They still get half. Oh, that's nice. What do they get half of? Soap. That's it. That's all they got.

Whatever's up your ass. Oh, that's kind of nice to get a release. Well, this woman talks about the bad boy on the dark horse and the serial killer that probably personifies that the most is Richard Ramirez, aka the Night Stalker. Yeah, the leather-smellin' kaijote all the way from downtown LA. This guy's a piece of shit and he still found love. Again, this episode's about romance. It is.

In the end, it's like, you know, it's passion. It's like, what kind of passion it takes to literally go through the bars of prison to find someone and fall in love with them so much that you'll pay a guard $50 just to watch you guys have sex with each other. Isn't that fun? During Richard Ramirez's trial, a gaggle of women dressed in black who called themselves the women in black would show up every day to court to get a glimpse of Richard Ramirez. Here's an interview with a couple of those groupies.

They are the women in black admirers of Richard Ramirez. Why are you in the courtroom today? I just wanted to see what he looked like. I think he's cute. This woman, who gave her name only as Paige, calls herself a Satanist. She says Ramirez has written letters to her and that she's talked with him in jail. Everyone makes him look so bad, you know, but I know that he's a nice person because I've met him and I know.

He's convicted of 13 murders. But he's a really nice guy. It's very out of the usual. It's very out of the norm to be able to do that for a certain amount of time and length a period of time and get away with it, especially the outrageousness of it, the kind of murders that he did. When I went to go visit him, I asked him, you know, I said, how many other girls do you? I want to know.

And he kind of laughed and said, there's two, but I already know them and I've known them for a while. And they're just like acquaintances and, you know, kind of, you know, make me think that and believe like I was like the only one that he liked that was visiting. It's just so ridiculous. He still had to go through the bullshit of a relationship. He murdered all these people and that had to be, without a doubt, the most difficult conversation you ever had.

Like literally had to be like, I don't know who I like most. I just, you know, it's hard time for me to pin somebody down. I'm not really into the commitment thing right now because I don't know because I can't kill in here. Can I just finish drawing this pentagram of my damn poem, please? And immediately started jerking off, which was a problem that Richard Ramirez had. Yes. Huge problem.

Now, Paige was kind of like kind of nice looking. These people are like, it's very strange because this is not the guy writing poetry in the Starbucks. This is not the guy on the train who stops you and be like, excuse me, I just have to draw you because I've never seen a model like you. This is a man who kills people and it's very interesting how they just view him as another outsider. Well, I'm going to say he's better than the guy writing poetry in the Starbucks. That's the most disgusting thing I ever heard in my life.

You will find they have sired children. You can't be creative in a Starbucks. People do it every single day. You go to Los Angeles and it's just the glow of laptops. It feels like you're in the middle of a goddamn nuclear power fucking trap. Sounds awful. Ramirez got hundreds of letters during the trial with one woman going so far as to say that she wanted to have sex with him in a coffin.

Cool. Yeah. That's pretty great. If the coffin's a rockin', I'm having sex in it. Please release me from the coffin. I am trapped inside of the coffin. Another woman who sent a naked picture to Richard Ramirez tried to file a complaint with the police after Richard started passing it around to the other prisoners.

Bad form. You got to ask permission first. Absolutely. Is that a prison cheat? What does that go under? It's a betrayal. It's a betrayal. At the same time, you're like, this is like my shield.

Everyone's trying to have sex with me. I have long hair. I'm the only thin person in this to bring a death row. They're all trying to fuck me. You got to give them something. It's like chum to a shark. I agree. Yeah, even one of the jurors in Richard's trial fell for him.

On Valentine's Day, she sent him a cupcake with a message that just said, I love you. She still voted to sentence him to death, though. She took a lot of convincing to sentence him to death. But after all that was said and done, she still showed up after the trial to visit Richard Ramirez in prison, and she brought her parents along. Isn't that nice? Well, when she did sentence him to death, though, she whispered under her breath for being adorable.

Being adorable. He sentenced to death for being too cute. I wish the sentence could be commuted by kisses, death by kisses. Oh, that's better than chocolate. Why did she bring her parents? I don't know. Well, I don't think she was mentally stable, which also is horrifying to think that she got on a jury.

Well, think about the last dude she probably introduced them to, probably some slam poet from Des Moines. So this was a step up, at least he's on television. That's true. So in an interview with Salon, Dr. Catherine Ramzlin suggested that some of these women confuse the violence that these killers committed against others with a deep evolutionary imperative to latch on to a strong mate so they could be protected. Now, these are just doctors' opinions.

We don't really own. Just doctors' opinions? That's all I don't know. These are only the opinions of accredited professionals who study this sort of thing every single day and have gotten doctorates and said subjects. So those are just experts' opinions. And if there's one thing I know everything about, it's the ladies. Now, for example, female orangutans have a sexual preference for the largest, most confrontational

and violent males, and the fact that the serial killers have killed people already suggests in these women's minds, possibly, that the serial killers may kill for their woman and will in turn make babies that will kill as well. It's all about forming a strong unit that will survive. And that makes sense because a lot of these women have been victimized or abused at some point in their lives. It reminds me of Julia Lewis from Natural Born Killers. Actually, that is a perfect example.

That's exactly what it is. Is that a perfect example? Yeah. Again, surprisingly astute. Whoa! And I will say, but I don't know. I'm going to say this to you. Dating advice everyone.

So why don't we throw it out there? I don't know. If it's your best go, at the very beginning of the top of the date, say, I will kill for you, and I will make a child inside of you that will kill for us as well. I think that's the poem that someone's writing at Starbucks right now. Oh yeah. Like I said, these women, they've been victimized or abused, but paradoxically, in addition to the strange illusion of protection against others, the women are also protected from

their partners themselves. Yeah. Like, he will protect me, and I am protected from him. Because I'm with the most dangerous man in the world, so now I'm not afraid of the most dangerous man in the world anymore. Exactly. The most dangerous man in the world is in a box. He can't offend you if there's a home invader.

Unless you're inside the prison with him. You know what I mean? I guess so. Yeah. It's a paradox. It doesn't make any sense. None of this makes any sense. I mean, you can't look for logic.

It's all fantasy. Yeah. It's all fantasy. Yeah. What was it? Sheila Eisenberg, who wrote this great book called Women Who Love Men Who Kill. We got a lot of research on that book. It's a really cool book.

I definitely recommend going and checking out Sheila Eisenberg, Women Who Love Men Who Kill. She compared it to kind of medieval knights, this sort of idea of chivalry, where there is nothing. It's like a constant courtship that is never actually consummated. The term is patriarchy and love, and it's like an old literature idea of setting letters and you're putting someone in a pedestal, and also they're stuck inside of a prison cell.

That's the best part, is that they can't disappoint you. They can only live out to fill your fantasies within your own mind, and they're not going anywhere so they can't cheat on you. And a lot of these people I imagine have some sort of abandonment issues, and the idea is you have a guy in a fucking cage. They can't go anywhere. It's perfect for you. All right.

Well, I'm sold. Where do I find one of these? Well, one of these women was Doreen Leoy, the woman who married the knight stalker. When she first started writing Richard Ramirez during his trial, she was nothing more than a fun-loving freelance teen magazine editor, which is an odd job to have. Well, it's not that out of a job. She's a freelance editor. No, a freelance teen magazine editor.

She just ended up at the teen magazine editor, because Doreen Leoy doesn't really look like what you'd imagine to be a teen magazine editor. When I imagine teen magazine editor, I imagine crop t-shirt, you kind of see like weird neon spandex pants, top ponytail up on top of the head, like some of Sarah Jessica Parker from some of her earlier films. Absolutely. She looks like the Sarah Jessica Parker's mom from some of her earlier films. Well, I do think she probably has a fun wall full of pictures, though.

That's what teen editors do. They put pictures on their walls. She's like a 40-year-old woman. Yeah. Old men. There's a bunch of pictures of old dudes. Just Eli Wallach. I just love all those pictures of Jack Palitz.

She was also a self-described Catholic virgin, which you guys actually- Yes. You explained to me what a Catholic virgin was. I didn't know what a Catholic virgin was. It's only the butt. I can't believe you didn't hear- I've never heard this term. I've never heard Catholic virgin before. As a person who went to eight years of Catholic school, I was only supposed to do seven, but

I got held back. That's not true. That was a joke. They wanted me there more. Yeah, you can do all the butt stuff in the world and still get into heaven. God checks you out. God forgets about the butt. He doesn't care.

I don't know why. He doesn't care. He has it somewhere written in there. Yeah. It's written down somewhere because they only do the butt stuff, keep it intact. Even though you literally can get your hymen busted by a rough car ride. Yeah. Well, that's one weird thing that a lot of these women share as well.

A lot of them are Catholic, which is very strange. And according, again, to Sheila Eisenberg, author of Women Who Love Men Who Kill, these women reported being severely affected by the oppressive sexual policies of the church. I'll actually also put it this way. I was Catholic very staunchly so. Alter Boy wanted to be a priest, and I know a lot of people who elapsed Catholics that ended up getting into true crime, and it's a very morbid religion. Oh, it totally is.

And Jesus was sentenced to death. Literally the person you go to fucking worship every day was a wizard that was murdered and then ritualistically cannibalized every week. And you go in and watch and you sit in a gigantic, big, pretty building where you've got a picture of a man screaming, nailed to a fucking computer, and he's hot, too. Oh, he's a dreamboat. You know he's got a big cock. Oh, shoot.

He's got all of the women are chastely dressed, but you know they got big floppy tits. His wife was a prostitute. He's up there and it's a place to make you horny about the macabre. Man, now I'm getting Catholic again. And the do the, what is it, the stations of the cross? It's just a true crime story. It's a horror story. Well, just think about, he's sweaty.

It's like that Diet Pepsi commercial with a construction guy, when they all look up there and watch the guy, like take his shirt off, drink another thing. If you just had Jesus put down the cross and drink a can of Diet Pepsi, women would get wet. Yeah. Well, you know what? Yeah, they used to, construction guys used to be thought of as fairly attractive. Not anymore.

Now they're more of a... Pre-Rapist. Yeah, something like that. Well, Doreen and Richard Ramirez began correspondence in 1985. And in 1988, he asked her to be his wife. But it took until 1996 for them to finally be married alongside three other death row inmates in the San Quentin State Prison visiting room. Four?

Four death row inmates got married that day? All at once. Yep. Good Lord. Get a date, guys. Which is, I guess so. How the hell is it possible? Let me ask you a question.

Sure. Why do you think he chose to marry Doreen over all of them that had come to his door? Because largely, it's kind of like what we're going to see with Ted Bundy. Their victims were more like traditionally pretty, like kind of like younger girls. I'm really surprised they didn't skew that way with someone more like a star with Charles Manson. You can see why Charles Manson got pulled into the star scenario. Wonder why he was with Doreen who looked probably closer to what his mom looked like.

Maybe it is something to do with that. We'll get into star a little bit later, but Henry, he's on death row. Your standards drop. What the hell, the last thing he looked at in the mirror was himself. That's true. Well, she was like, she said that he told her that she was special. And I think what it was is that he could say anything to her because I think what happens a lot of times is these women will stay with these serial killers for a while.

And they'll say a bunch of shit. Yeah. I don't know for a fact that he had a problem with anybody who came into his office. Anybody who came into his cell, he would imagine. He didn't call it his office. Yes. He didn't call it his office. Strange.

Well, Doreen said this whole marriage was the realization of a feeling she first had after seeing Richard's mugshot on TV during an episode of Dallas on Friday, August 30th, 1985, the night before he was arrested. She said, there was something in his eyes. Maybe the vulnerability. I don't really know. He's kind. He's funny.

He's charming. I think he's a really great person. He's my best friend. He's my buddy. It was a mugshot. It was a man wanted for multiple murders. Well, that was after 70 letters because it all started with a birthday card. Oh, that's nice.

Because he was arrested and she found out that it was his birthday pretty soon after he got arrested. So she figured he probably needs a little bit of a pick me up. So she sent him a birthday card to prison. Even in 30s, hard enough. It is, isn't it? 40 is the new serial killer. Yeah, and Doreen also believed that Richard Ramirez was innocent.

This is what she said about that. I just believe in him completely. In my opinion, there was far more evidence to convict O.J. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson, and we all know how that turned out. All right. Good logic there. You're flawless. You're doing great.

That's the kind of logic that gets you married to a serial killer. That's exactly it. You know what? In O.J.'s trial, they put the LAPD on trial as opposed to O.J. and she put love on trial. You put love on trial and love always wins. Love always wins. Every time she went to visit Richard, every time she went to visit Richard, sometimes up to four times a week, she always made a point to pack breath mints.

Her excuse was so I can be able to kiss with confidence, but we all know the real reason why was because Richard Ramirez suffered from terrible halitosis. His mouth smelled like liquid shit. Yes. He smelled like wet leather. He was constantly jerking off at you, and you know what I'm saying, constant things that we understand, you know, you're always pushing somebody away to see if they'll come back.

Sure. And that's what he did his whole life, and not just with murdering 13 women. No. Oh my God. Doreen. Lucky lady. Oh yeah, but something as it always does in relationships involving serial killers went wrong.

No. Relationships in general are hard. It's always hard. You're always going to have speed bumps. Ramirez lost all visiting privileges in 2004 after many, many masturbation incidents. We're talking about everybody who went in there, he jerked off. His niece went in there, and his niece apparently, Ramirez told her, if you weren't my niece, I'd fuck you.

Yeah. Huh. But he didn't. It's what you don't do. It's because he's in jail. Oh, right. If he was free, he would have killed and he would have murdered her and had sex with her. I see.

Yeah, his masturbation was such a problem that prison officials actually put signs in front of his cell warning people that when they walk by, he was probably going to start jerking off at him. So he was just constantly hard or he could just get hard really quick? I think he was able to get the flagpole up pretty fast. I don't know. I think he is very, that's the problem with being like really, really, really horny all the time.

Yeah. I think it either makes you a very successful person or you're a serial killer. But he was still allowed to write letters and it wasn't just Doreen. He was writing to, here's a clip from an interview the BBC did with Misty, one of Ramirez's groupies. Hi, Misty. Thank you for the nice card and letters, warmest regards to you and Chloe and Caitlin. So both of you girls are going to Utah.

I thought it was only Chloe that went. I do remember the group Berlin from the 80s, they had a few good songs. Do you ever read autobiographies on music, bands, do you shave your pussy? What was that? Big jump. Big jump. But then sometimes you got to ask for what you want and you got to put it out there for what you want.

And she was saying that they had wrote over 700 letters to each other and that she was like very impressed with the sexuality. She was really a very lonely woman, I guess, but she's actually pretty, it's like she seemed like a very sweet woman in this documentary. I forgot what the documentary is called. I think in love with the serial killer, which is really great. But she said she left and once she showed up, she showed up and met him and she said it was like hanging out with a shark, his eyes are dead and then immediately started jerking

off at her. Sharks can't jerk off. Thank God they can't because if they could, you know those turtles would be getting it first. It would be horrifying. I think the weirdest thing about that is that Richard Ramirez is a fan of Berlin. Yeah. What was the band that did take my breath away?

Well, I mean, I think he was romancing her before he got to the pussy question. Think about how romantic a song it is to take my breath away to murder someone too. Oh, it's actually, that's a good point. I didn't even realize it. He thought it was about strangulation, but he ended up completely alone. He refused at any visitors after 2004 and apparently he would just sit in the dark of a cell and watch television all day long and literally just lazily like would people go by literally go like, I'm jerking off, I'm just out of fucking habit.

Yeah. Richard, I just feel like you're going through the motions. You remember when you used to just like jerk off on it all the time? Now you used to come. Yeah, yeah. I used to come all the time, but now it's just like, come on. Going through the motions. Hey, Richard, look at these.

Look at these. Look at my boobs. Come on. Come on. You know, boobs are just fat. Oh man. Yeah. Well, that chick that banged him, what was it?

Misty? Misty was the one who just wrote the letters. Yeah, that was the pen pal. Doreen was the woman who actually married him. We don't know if they had sex though. Yeah. Well, we don't know. Well, they probably didn't because.

Well, it sounds like it would have had to be an orgy. Everyone was getting married in that damn room. No. Well, in California, people who are sentenced to life aren't allowed conjugal visits. Well, they do a thing where you can bribe the guard sometimes and they'll let you have sex. Yeah. And if you play nice.

Yes. Yeah. Misty reminds me though, don't talk to anyone who works at hot times. It's not a topic. Or do. It just depends on what kind of conversation you want to have. Just understand what you're getting into. Right.

Yeah. But I guess she gave up, right? Yeah. She gave up when Ramirez died in 2013 of lymphoma. Nobody was there to claim his body. Yeah. And they said that the Ramirez family said that they basically, if the body goes and claim they cremate it by default, and they said that it was always Richard's idea of

what he wanted. Ricky always wanted to be burnt alive, of course. I guess so. They just let him do it. It's a hell of a way to end the horror life. You know, when I think about all of my satanic beliefs, and I think about what happens to the body, you know, it's just meat, man. It's just meat.

Man, fuck you. Turn it into dust, bro. And then you know what? Roll up it into a joint and smoke it. That's what I'm going to do, man. I'm going to be one of those. You want people to smoke your ashes? No.

I'm going to live forever. I'm going to be put into a cyborg body. Oh, I see. I'm downloading my mind onto the fucking cloud, and then I'm going to be put into a perfect cyborg body with a nine-inch dick, and I could jump like Michael Jordan. Your guys are going to see. No, you won't. You'll be in the fucking ground.

Yeah. I actually hope so. It's opposed to that. Well, let's move from bad boy Richard Ramirez to heartthrob Ted Bundy. Now, I'd say Richard Ramirez is the acquired taste heartthrob. He is like that. He's like the angus young of serial killers in terms of what you're going to find attractive. ACDC.

Yes. Ted Bundy is the traditional good-looking young man serial killer. He's a Tom Brady type. Yeah, he's the Ken doll. Yeah. Ted Bundy's trial, an entire row behind him, was actually reserved for his groupies, and his groupies were actually pretty hot. I mean, Richard Ramirez's groupies, yeah, hot topic types.

These were like sorority girls. Well, yeah, because that was his victim as well, and they all thought that he was misunderstood. They all look at, you know, the ideas he was chasing down that one girlfriend that had the long straight brown hair, and they all want to fix him. They all think they can get in there and be like, oh, I'll be the good version of that. Yeah. They've got to be really attractive with the last name Bundy, because it's a tough one to, if you're a lady, and you want to take a last name, like Pam Bundy.

I'll take it. I don't know. Beautiful women often have like horrible last names. There is no horrible last name. That's what I always said. Thank you. All last names are beautiful in their own way. Yeah.

Ann Roll said in The Stranger Beside Me, she said that during Bundy's trial, he'd always turn around and flash a smile at these girls, and they'd just blush and giggle. God. That's so weird. That would be, I'd just like one of their fathers watching the trial from home, just be like, come home and stay seated. Get away from Ted Bundy anyway. Yeah, but the one woman who would snare Ted for good would be a woman named Carol Ann

Boone, a seemingly normal woman with a teenage son who worked with Bundy at the same suicide call center where Ted worked with Ann Roll, who wrote The Stranger Beside Me. God, he had such a special, special magic in that call center. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting to think he saved lives, potentially saved lives. Hey, can you imagine being depressed and you call and you're just like, this is Ted Bundy. How can I help you?

Hey, this is Ted. Yeah. Hey, listen, everything about maybe instead of you killing yourself, you invite me over and let me do it. You want to kill me? Yeah. You think I'm good enough to die? I think, I think you're good enough to be one of my first victims.

I feel great, man. I'm going to go out and achieve whatever I had I want to achieve. Well, Boone said that Ted struck her as a rather shy person with a lot more going on under the surface. Yeah, he's a serial killer. Yep. Yeah, she said that he'd even participate in some of the office silliness, despite being a Republican.

Hey, look at this, this cantaloupe, huh, playing with this cantaloupe kind of like it's a dead girl's head. It's like a dead girl's head, look, I put some spaghetti on it. It's like it's hair. It's like a dead girl's head. I carve a little hole in the front of it. It's like a dead girl's head, it's like a fucking dead girl's head. Seven sex with a stop.

This is just, you know, the lunch room here at the Suicide Hotline is surprisingly fun. Nothing like Republican silliness. Wild Republican silliness, indeed. I don't like the idea of people working at the Suicide Hotline having a cordial fun office. I wanted to be silent. Sit in silence in the cafeteria staring forward, thinking about the burden on your shoulders. Please God.

See, Carol Ann and Ted, they formed an intense friendship, well, they were there at the call center, but didn't move into romantic territory until after Ted was arrested. Soon as he was unavailable. Yeah, exactly. See, Carol convinced herself, like all of these women do, that Ted was completely and wholly innocent of all the charges, and she, like many of them, even created a kind of Ted Bundy alter ego fantasy lover that she called Bunny. I don't understand how a woman could be more sexually attracted to the cute, cuddly animal

version of your lover instead of the man himself. Like Ted Bundy in a full Bunny costume. Is that it? That is your sexual fantasy. She's not very creative. She just changed the D with an N, called it Bunny instead of Bundy. It's just weird that it's a Bunny. It's a Bundy Bunny.

Of all of the animals to choose, you want to be fucked by a tiny bunny? Well, she wants a lot of it, and she wants it quick. I know. I think she wants a full, like a large rabbit, like a man-sized rabbit. Well, then you call them the rabbit. Yeah, the Bunny does make it seem kind of juvenile, huh? Yeah. This woman had made a lot of mistakes.

See, eventually Carol convinced Ted to marry him, but the union was not without its obstacles. First, they couldn't find a minister willing to perform the ceremony. And ministers have sex with children. Yeah. Second, the jail denied the request, saying it wasn't in Bundy's best interest to get married. So with the help of a couple of journalists, Ted and Carol came up with the workaround. Their plan was to get Carol on the stand as a character witness, plant a notary public

in the audience to make it legit, and let Ted, who, if you'll remember, represented himself in the trial, take care of the rest. This is kind of actually romantic. It's a little romantic. Super, if he was on trial for like helping his mom too much, you know, Hollywood is running out of ideas. We are this close to getting a Bundy and Carol show, like movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan playing Ted Bundy and Carol Ann Boone.

I could totally see it. Rob Reiner will direct it. Oh, yeah, he's great. Oh, he is getting there, getting old. So using a weird loophole, Bundy asked Carol, who was on the stand under oath, if she would marry him. She said, yes, to which he said, then I do hereby marry you. And that was that.

Well, this is actually legal. That was legal. He got legally married and worked like that. And this is all towards the end of the trial when it just became a complete circus. Well, this is when they were trying to decide whether to put him to death or not. This is in the penalty phase. So he was doing that as a, that's just the true psychopath. He was so bored by the own trial process that he was just mixing it up.

I mean, that is, I kudos to him for being his own lawyer. You know, that must have been a really fun trial for him. He had a lot of paperwork. Have you ever heard the judge when he was pronounced guilty, what the judge said to him? No. Like the judge was impressed. The judge said, you know what, son, I really wish we would have met underneath different

circumstances. I think you would have been a hell of a trial lawyer and I would have been proud to have you practice law in my courtroom. Stop saying nice things to him. He murdered over 20 women. You murdered over 30 women. Over 30 women. Yeah, it was like 36.

Yeah. Like 36. And the judge was just smitten. He just couldn't believe that stop being charmed by him. At least Ted Bondi, sure he murdered 36 women, but at least he wasn't a lawyer. Thank God. Well, he wanted to be, he was trying to be, what do you call 100 lawyers chained to the bottom of the ocean?

A good start. That is a funny, that is a good joke. Thank you. Dad Zabrowski. See, after they got married, Carol moved herself and her teenage son to Gainesville, Florida to be closer to Bundy and the two visited as often as they could. And see, Carol, she complete, she lost her job. As soon as it came out that she was like, that Carol, she lost her job and lived pretty

much off of interviews. She lived off of being Ted Bundy's wife and she also managed to bear Bundy a child, although there's some skepticism as to if the child is really Ted's. But apparently it is a bit, it is his, he, they posed together as a family. There was a lot, like Ted mentioned his daughter all the time. She's out there, Kissel probably dated her at some point. Love her. Yeah.

There you go. I think that she is probably pretty unpredictable. I did date somebody who constantly called me Bunny. So yeah. Oh, called you by her dad's own sexual nickname? That's a joke. Yeah. Yep, so Carol, she told everyone, you know what?

It's none of your business how we, how I got pregnant. It's just between me and Ted. But the thing is about Carol, it was everybody's business. She wanted it to be everybody's business. Like I said, she got fired from her job. She lived off of being Ted Bundy's wife. She lived off of doing these interviews with Inside Edition and A Current Affair. And all of these dumb magazines and television shows and it's probably because Carol Boone's

reason for being in the relationship with Ted had more to do with fame than anything else. Oh, that's ridiculous. What about love? What about it? So now she has a teenage son. She tells them that you're going to, we're moving to Gainesville, Florida, which is bad enough.

And then like, why mom? So I can bang Ted Bundy. If it was me, I would have been like, kill her. Yeah. That's what I'm wondering. I would find like, I would just me take off my cans, listening to Marilyn Manson and she's talking about how all I want to do is move back to New York from Florida. It's going to be like, mom, you finally cool enough to be my friend.

Yeah, it's weird. I mean, you do wonder if he liked it. He definitely had the most badass stepdad of all time. I guess. Talk about my stepdad could beat up your stepdad. So my stepdad will have sex with your mother's corpse. Well, I mean, maybe they did form some sort of bond because Carol and Boone stopped visiting Ted Bundy a couple of years before he was executed, but the son went and visited Ted

up till three days before the execution. And that's when Ted Bundy finally admitted to him because Bundy was trying to play that last little pornography gambit. Yeah. So he admitted to the son, yes, I did kill all of those women. But as far as the fame goes, I mean, this is a way this is a fast track to becoming famous because Carol and Boone, there's no way that Carol and Boone's going to be famous all on her own, but she can marry Ted Bundy and suddenly she's Ted Bundy's wife.

It's the quickest way to fame because as, of course, she lies and Burke said, Brad Pitt's not going to answer your letter. Well, he might now. He might now. It's really devastated. It's very interesting now that how time, how time has made, has changed the time has changed it. Yes, but Ted Bundy might answer your letter and some people are so hungry for some sort

of recognition, something that makes them special that they'll even marry a serial killer to make it happen. It makes you feel important. It makes you feel something. Yeah. Everybody in this life, I think, it's looking to feel important, looking to feel needed and wanted. And that is a really quick way to do it is to get in front of a television camera.

It feels all that. That's why so many people, I'm not going to necessarily just keep motioning to this triangle of human beings, but there's about the whole inside of us that's needed to be filled by that validation of people liking what you do. Yeah, but I mean, she's famous for banging Ted Bundy. Yeah, that's all she has to do. Yeah, but that's like, who wants to be famous for that? She does.

I don't get it. I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, a lot of these women, not all of them, but a lot of them, that's part of the reason why they do it. They love the attention. Doreen Leoy, she was another one that constantly gave interviews. She also got fired from her job. Sandra London talked about it as if she identified with them too, with her own weird dark tendencies. That's the other side of it.

It's either people who also think like I could have been a killer too. And actually our next killer, that is a prime example of that. Let's move on from the heartthrob to, I don't know, the funny guy, the goldberg of serial killers. We've got the bad boy. We've got the heartthrob. Let's move on to the clown, John Wayne Gacy. Okay.

The way Henry loves John Wayne Gacy is the same way that you love Richard Ramirez. Both of you are wrong. Got to be funny. You got to have that charm, man. Actually, if, let's go ahead and say, yeah, here in this room, if we were to all be assigned a serial killer, I'd be Richard Ramirez. You Ben would be Ted Bundy. Technically.

You actually would technically, you're, well, I would be, technically I'd be Ed Kemper because he's the only one six foot seven. Yeah. He's been regularly dated. Eddie Kemper. Nobody touched him. Yeah. And even though you're a libertarian, I mean, that's closer to Republican.

Much closer. I work at Fox News. Yeah. Yeah. You would have been a wet dream. He probably wouldn't have been a killer if he had your job. Yeah. That's true.

He's gotten into politics like he wanted to. Yep. And Henry would beat John Wayne Gacy. Yes. But I, so you got to have, give the gap, right? You got to talk a boy in there because boys, they're squirrely. I know. You got to be able to, you got to reel them in.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, getting a boy into a basement and onto a choking board is akin to getting a gigantic sport, Marlon, onto a tiny little boat. Do you want to say these things out loud? I'm just saying. Got to be funny. Got to be funny. I got a hot girlfriend only because I'm funny. Everything around me.

The fact that I can afford clothes, I am not smart. I can barely get my shit together. I can't do my taxes. Good. I got to be funny. John Wayne Gacy is a part of that legacy. Well, John Wayne Gacy ran a small business. He actually did.

He was quite successful. He was a boy farmer. He ran. What kind of was, also a Democrat who met Roslyn Carter, Jimmy Carter's wife. Oh yeah, man. Small time Democrat. I met Lee in order to Caprio. No one cares right now.

You know, he says this every 25 minutes. He's by law, Henry is forced to say, okay, we've got it out of the way. So yeah, as we said, you know, there's the bad boy. There is the hardthrob. John Wayne Gacy, you know, you can kind of understand those other two guys as far as women wanting to get all up in whatever with this. This kind of makes me sad. But it's true.

Gacy, I mean, of course, Gacy should not have as many female admirers, but he did have some. He did have some. Here's a couple of examples, but I mean, it's just the truth, man. No, I know. But you said women want to get all up inside them, which is disgusting because that would require a whole series of different things. I didn't say inside. I said, get all up in.

Get up in them emotionally and also, yeah, I mean, you know, in the butt I meant. I guess so. In prison. They're used to it. Well, it's death row. I guess you got to do whatever. Well, here's a couple of examples of letters sent to John Wayne Gacy from female admirers while he was in prison.

This one is from Lynn in New York City, dated November 28th, 1987. I only like to know people who have crossed over to the other side. I create companions out of my dolls and I work on a phone, S&M service at home. So I'm able to keep my worldly interaction limited. I am a mental stimulation junkie. I need to read or watch movies all the time, roll a skate in my apartment for hours to ease frustrations, have a dog who I jerk off. I wonder about you and where you've been.

And that is David Berkowitz meets Henry's mother. Yes. It's a great, great new impression. This one is from Terry Sue, March 2nd, 1988. I'm a 34-year-old black sexy mama. I'm looking for a swing in good time whenever you get out. I know you killed them boys, but I don't care. P.S., this is a train letter, please send it to the rest of your killer friends.

Oh my God, John Wayne Gacy is like, keep me in here, never let me out there. God, man, though, she would be a lot to handle. I think she would be pretty intense. Out of all the women to write to Gacy, the one who got the closest was a mother of eight from Gacy's home state of Illinois, Sue Terry, who said she felt immense empathy towards Gacy seeing him as a victim of circumstance. The black sexy mama's name was Terry Sue. Huh.

That fucking weird. Nice. Yeah, that's great. That's really weird. That's really weird. Why is that so weird? The same two names. Terry Sue?

Terry Sue and Sue Terry. Oh, Sue Terry, is it the same person? No, it's not. No, no, no. Terry Sue is a black sexy mama. Sue Terry is a white mother. So reverse. Reverse.

Oh. Yeah, this is what Sue Terry said about John Wayne Gacy. I thought maybe he's in prison because someone had made him a steak. I thought he might be innocent. He's got a real soft, kind, blue eyes. He relaxed me the way he talked. I can't explain it. It's like being in another world.

There are 26 corpses in his floorboards. More in the reverse. More in the reverse. More in the reverse. Good Lord. She's actually got kind of, not kind of, she actually has a very sad story. She was involved in a string of horribly abusive relationships, one worse, each one worse than the last.

The man she was with before Gacy cut the ends of her fingers off up to the bone, kicked out her teeth and cut up her face so much that she needed over 100 stitches. This is the reason why she went for Gacy. This quote really sums it up nicely. I see this on television where women kill their husbands. If I could have, I would have. I would be in prison right now for murder. Yeah.

I think Sue Terry could have gotten away with it. I think she needed to call up Terry Sue because Terry Sue had the fucking attitude to make it happen. Yeah. See what she saw in Gacy was this kind of like twisted courage to kill that she didn't possess despite proclaiming his innocence, deep down she still saw a person who was able to act on their murderous desires even if the people he murdered were helpless young boys.

It doesn't matter. Like they had the guts to do something that they couldn't do. Yeah. It's ridiculous logic. Yes. It's a mental problem. Yeah. All of this is ridiculous logic.

These women need therapy. They need help. I mean, it's also, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and pretend as if it's not worse. It is the fact that he's so damn ugly. You know, with Bundy, I kind of understand. Yeah, that's what I said. No, I'm just saying. I don't want to agree with you too much, Marcus, but the fact that he's just such a fat

toad, it does make this whole thing more disgusting. All bodies should be celebrated. Oh my God. All bodies should be celebrated. Everyone deserves a love, including John Wayne Gasey. Did you meet Leonardo DiCaprio? One time, I went to his apartment and he said I could use his bathroom and I did. I used his bathroom.

What did you do in there? He brought a sandwich platter and we all had sandwiches in his kitchen. You are beautiful. But the whole illusion of Gasey's innocence came crashing down when Gasey started openly bragging about the murders once he finally became comfortable being around Sue Terry. And the final straw came when on one visit, Sue took her kids to see Gasey even after he started talking about killing the boys. One of Sue's sons offhandedly mentioned that he had heard of another killer with a higher

body count. Gasey got super pissed and said, no, no, he didn't. I killed more than he did. And after that, Sue stopped seeing Gasey and moved on with her life. Well, you know what? Gasey, there are multiple killers with a higher body count. He's not number one. No, he's not number one.

But in the late 70s, he was up there. It's still Gary Ridgway. Gary Ridgway, right? As far as proof. I'm getting ready for my UK accent. Gary Ridgway, right? That's going to be good. But Gary Ridgway, he was 78, which I think is number one.

In America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. Yeah. Number one is a Colombian. Oh, OK. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

He just killed orphans, though. Gary? No, the Colombian. They matter, too. I mean, they matter. Wait, they matter, too. Technically. I like that.

I do like the way you change that. The thing is that you can kill a dozen orphans just by fucking crashing into one of those orphanage buses. I don't. That's orphanage buses. It's a bus. They shuttle. They shuttle the kids back and forth in big buses.

Back and forth where? They go to different orphanages once they run out or when they run out of food and one or all the toilets back up in one. They go and they drive them to another orphanage and drop off. I think you have a total misunderstanding of adoption and foster care in orphanages. I never said I did. No, although our next guy didn't get as much attention from the ladies as our last three. I imagine he got the least.

He got the least. Women still wrote to our dear old friend, David Berkowitz, a.k.a. the son of Sam. Since Berkowitz was a more hands off killer, using a gun from a distance rather than the close up strangle stab murder rape of most serial killers, he appealed more to the nurturing I can save him. I can change him. Rescue fantasy side. I don't think you really understand.

Okay, yes, it's not as sexy as, you know, heaving and being on top. Oh God, just thinking about it makes me all sweaty and how hard that is. You understand it takes up to three minutes to strangle somebody to death who's got that kind of energy. It takes me, it took me four minutes to put on my shoes this morning. And oh God, I think I'm really allergic to some of the material in the shoes. I got these weird welts on my fingertips. I don't know where it came from.

I think I'm sick or I'm stressed. I haven't been sleeping very well. My neighbor's been playing television so loud. And at the same time it is a funny show. I love that anger management show. It's very funny. Charlie Sheen. Oh, he's worth whatever cent you can get him for.

But to say that I'm less sexy because I shoot people, that takes his skill. That takes proper, that takes proper maintenance of a weapon you even understand. Oh, you shot it like nine people. I think you only hit four. No, because in the end it's not about the result. It's about the journey. It's not about the destination. Oh, are you okay?

Wait a second. Do you have a cat? I do. Oh, that is tough. You may as well just put me on death row. You are on death row. Oh God. Yeah, Birkowitz got letters saying things like, I think you're sexy and handsome and misunderstood.

Thank you. Somebody said it. Somebody knows. Somebody did say that to you in a letter, yes. Can you please find my mother and tell her the same thing? The letters focused mostly on his dreamy blue eyes and how such a sensitive man could never commit such crimes. And one woman even signed her letter, David's girl. Oh, listen, I can't be immediately signed into some ownership pact with you.

You're not my girl, but I would like to be with someone like two birds in the sky flying in the same direction. I don't want to own you. I don't want to. Oh God, tell me you haven't had an old man in the last 36 hours. Yeah, I actually have some in my pocket. Oh God, I'm just literally, oh, I am blowing up. I'm turning to a regular Louis Anderson over here. Get me some ointment, oh God, my feet, I'd spent four minutes putting on these shoes and I'll never get them off my feet are so swollen.

Just for future reference, what aren't you allergic to? Um, air. These pants specifically. Just those pants. And Garfield, love that comic strip. Love lasagna too, if only I could eat it. Yeah, it's a comic strip. You can't be allergic to that.

David's most serious relationship involved the woman who knew him before his arrest. That affair lasted eight years from 1977 until 1985. She wanted to get married, but for reasons unknown, Barcawitz declined. You're kind of fat. That doesn't seem like a nice reason not to date somebody. Jesus, David, you're kind of fat too. Yeah, but you know, at the same time, I'm trying to move up. To where?

To what? From what? That's the kind of sugar I want to get on my clique. You want, you want the, uh, you want Ramirez's wife? Oh, she's got a body they can't stop. Like literally, it's like a circle. Oh, that's what I like to see. She's small and she's got tiny eyes.

Oh, it's like a pig with shoes on. A strange, a strange type, I guess. Well, sometimes the women who love killers are would be killers themselves, as is the case with Veronica Compton, one-time consort of Kinefer Bianchi, one-half of the Hillside Stranglers. Of course, we all remember the Hillside Stranglers. We just covered them not too long ago. They murdered 10 women, Kim Bianchi and Angelo Belono, cousins together,

murdered 10 women in Los Angeles in the 1970s. Now, Veronica started writing to Ken while he was awaiting trial to testify against his cousin, Angelo Belono, who had raped and murdered 10 women alongside Kinefer in the late 70s, as I said. Veronica was a 24-year-old playwright and actress whose plays dealt mostly with sadomasochism. And as soon as Ken got serious with Veronica, Ken dropped his long-time girlfriend and the mother of his child, Kelly Boyd, saying he was, quote, a one-woman guy.

I will say that Veronica sounds kind of saucy. She does sound super saucy. I mean, she just wrote porn and called herself a playwright. That's kind of fun, though. Yeah, that is kind of fun. It's like live porn, though. Just because it's about sadomasochism doesn't mean it's porn. I just can't imagine this woman was really great at dialogue.

I don't know. It's like, now spank me. Cool. Now, I'll spank you. All right. 70 pages of that. Spank me again. Super duper.

All right, now I'm spanking you. Oh, that's the best. Stick around for Act 2. What's Act 2 all about? Oh, choke me now. Wow. It's a great screenplay. Ken somehow convinced Veronica to commit a copycat murder on his behalf

to try to convince police that the real hillside strangler was still on the loose. The plan was to find a woman, strangle her, and inseminate her with Ken Bianchi's semen, which had been smuggled out of prison to Veronica in a rubber glove. While pulling an upside-down turkey. Yeah. Just that simple of a plan, huh? Now, the scene played out like this.

Veronica went to a bar in Bellingham, Washington, where Kenifer had committed his last two murders. Veronica donned the name Cindy Wasser and wore a long blonde wig, sunglasses, an off-white moomoo, and blue flip-flops. Weird combo outfit to be sexy at a bar. But also, think about how sexy this is for the woman. The serial killer is talking you through jail, and you're literally going on an undercover plot

to try and capture somebody and fucking put semen inside of them. That's like Madahari stuff, but not officially ordained by the government. I see. At the bar, Veronica made friends with a woman named Kim Breed, and told Kim after they had agreed to go to a second location that she needed to stop by her hotel room to pick something up. Once inside the hotel room, Veronica Compton knocked down Breed, and her tighter hands took a white cord that was similar to the one

Ken had used to kill the two coeds across town and tried to strangle her. But Kim, who worked for the Parks and Recreation Department and was reportedly unnaturally strong, was able to struggle free and get the hell out of there. Do you see what I said about how difficult it is to strangle somebody? It took me six minutes to open a bag of cheeses yesterday, and it just got covered because I realized my hands were covered in oil from my hair. You're not as strong as this woman, David.

It's not about the strength. It's about how long you can deal with three minutes as long as you think. Three minutes? Can you imagine three minutes of commercials? You'd be like, oh my God, how many times do I got to hear about Radio Shack? Yeah, that's true. But what Kim did not say is her name is actually Terry Sue, which is interesting. And Veronica was then arrested for her crimes. Veronica eventually lost interest in Kinnifer and moved on to a different serial killer,

Douglas Daniel Clark, a.k.a. the Sunset Strip Killer, a necrophiliac who used to put makeup on the heads of women he had killed before he copulated with the heads. And I don't think that's very brave, because I don't think you need makeup to be beautiful. Maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe she's a dickhead. Maybe she just gave it again. It's your fucking mind, a dumpster. Oh, that is just, we don't write ads. No, we don't. No, no one is hiring us.

They will let us. I submit them. Do you? I didn't get any response. No, interesting. Well, today's episode is going to end with a tale of love gone wrong. A tale of a woman who took a good man's love and twisted it for her own selfish gain. This is the tale of Star and Charles Manson. I genuinely feel bad for Charles Manson, in a way, because he's alone, he's in jail, he's almost 80 years old, he is sober, relatively, I imagine.

Yeah. Sitting in jail, just like, thinking that this thing would land, another hot chick would show up eventually. He's like, you know what, probably sitting around like, you know, it's about, it's been about 10 years, and there's got to be at least one that's going to come through. Because it's like Haley's Comet for him. Yeah, and they're like, Telegram for Mr. Manson. Yeah, all right. Let me just, look at this. I still got one of Squeaky's Bush hairs in my teeth.

Well, look at that. I've been dining on this for 10 years, buddy. I'm ready for the new. Yikes. So Star real name Afton Elaine Burton was a young Charles Manson groupie who claimed to be a staunch follower of Manson's Ottawa philosophy. Ottawa stands for air, trees, water, animals, or if you want to put it in a particularly Manson way, all the way alive. All the way alive.

Everything he can't touch or see from his sad, sad prison cell. It's also technically the log line for Captain Planet. It is. Yeah, I never liked Captain Planet. Yeah, I never did either. I just think that maybe all of us are just an Asian woman, a blonde boy, a blonde woman, a tiny little, I'm thinking Mexican boy with a monkey inside of ourselves. Yeah, I do kind of think about that.

Yeah, good. Yeah. Can I have five dollars? You need five dollars? Oh, you just bought into my religion, so yeah, I need five dollars. Oh, now I am one of your followers? Yeah, you got to tie. Also, you need the scorpions.

Wait a second. I just, I fell asleep there for a second. Okay, very good. So, Starr started sending letters and talking to Manson on the phone at the age of 19. She said, we talk about anything and everything, you know, like what's going on today, who's doing what? I, uh, funny story. I took a shit earlier today and it looked like a question mark. Fun.

Did you ask it a question or? Nah, it just seemed like my butt was wondering about life. So what are you up to today? What is Starr up to today? Oh, you know, just hanging out, looking at the trees and having a good time, you know, just kind of walking on the forest. Can you just shut up? I just want to know what the question the butt asked was, but... All right.

Starr, like all the others, said that Charlie was innocent, that he never believed in helter-skelter, and that he didn't have anything to do with the murders. And it is the editorial stance of last podcast on the left that helter-skelter was actually a plot to get a bunch of hot young hippies to move to the desert. It totally got out of hand, but he definitely had a lot to do with the murders. He got them dune buggies. That is the greatest thing anyone could ever give anybody, and he got them multiple ones. He didn't do a lot to stop the murders. Yeah, he didn't do... Tex Watson was the crazy one, though.

Obviously, yes. Obviously, Tex Watson was the crazy one. And the next night after the murders had already been done, that's when, you know, and of course, go back and listen to our three-part series on Charles Manson for more on this. And of course, after Tex Watson had already taken the first step, that Charles Manson said, okay, yeah, fuck it, let's do some more. And that's when they went out and, you know, murdered the lobbyonkas. He was just trying to keep the pussy there, though. Yeah, and that's what the whole thing was about. That's what Charles Manson, that's what all of it was about.

He just wanted the ladies to be there, because that's what gave him his validation, because he only ever wanted to be a pimp. Yeah. So, Star went all in with the Manson fandom, even carving an X into her forehead at Manson's request as a protest after he was put in solitary confinement. But after a few years of letters, calls, and visits, Star started showing up with a guy named Craig Hammond. Can you imagine being Charles Manson, you have this woman, she's pretty hot. She's coming in now. She's pretty hot, actually. She's like, she's talking and all that stuff, and she starts showing up with some guy named Craig.

I would be, I mean, whatever Charles Manson did that day in a blind rage, I would agree with. But think about the balls that this soft-bodied fucking hot topic Craig dude has to go sit in with Star talking to Charles Manson. You know Charles Manson was just staring at him the entire time. And like, who the fuck is Craig? Why the hell is Craig here? Yeah, I mean, Manson turned 80 either last year or the year before, but even in his late 70s, Manson sitting there staring at you, it's gonna be scary. Oh, it's horrifying, yes. It's gonna be absolutely horrifying.

But the two came in and they suddenly became very interested in what was gonna happen to Charlie's body after he died. Listen, we're all interested about what happens after death. But what happens now, like, when do we start having sex with each other? Oh, I see. It seems like this was leading to, I don't mean to jump forward here, but I'm 80 years old. I don't help you notice, but we're in a cage. You brought your fucking buddy Craig here. Well, I'm about to turn into a plate of spaghetti.

We need to start having sex with each other. And Craig can ball too if he wants, if he knows how to swing the right way. I think that that sounds fun. But these guys, they wanted Manson to sign over the rights to his remains to them. Because, you know, according to California law, when Charles Manson dies, he has no next to Ken. So they're just gonna burn his body and they say, like, hey, Charlie, you got to start thinking about the future. But Manson actually got pissed off at the idea, not because he was wondering what they were gonna do with his body, but he thought it was dumb to even entertain the idea because, hey, he's never gonna die.

He literally assumed he was immortal. Which I can assume he is. He still assumes that he's immortal. And tell he dies, he is. He's 81 years old, he's doing fine, apparently. He's still got, like, probably sickly. He's just sitting in jail, working out. He's wiry.

You know, guys like that, they do tend to live a long time. Yeah, they do. He's tiny. Yeah, and Manson, you know, he was stringing them along as well, because, you know, Hamid and Star were regularly bringing him toiletries and other various items. Yeah, bringing him shit and, like, just hanging out with the woman, I imagine, does a lot for him. He got a hug at the beginning and the end of every visit. And, you know, he made that count.

Oh, yeah, you loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And eventually... Hey, Up Guard, do you mind if we do just one hug upside down? That's good trickery, Charles. I don't... Still a hug, right? Still a...

Technically, it is. Right? Right? All right, we're doing the upside-down pile driver. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. He's just trying to go down. Keep your tongue in your mouth, Charles. Yeah, I'm just licking on her jeans.

So eventually, Hammond and Star figured out that if Star were to marry Manson, she would by law have the rights to his remains after his death. And so the courtship of Star and Charlie began. Unfortunately for Star, the wedding had to be postponed because the 80-year-old Manson had to be admitted to a medical facility for an unspecified infection. I went to the AR because my big toe had become a talking tomato. And it turned out that I had a little bit of peyote left in one of my molars that I guess had come loose during Soup Wednesday. Oh, of course, yeah. Isn't it also Soup Tuesdays and Mondays and Fridays? A lot of soup.

A lot of soup. But this was a runny or soup than normal. Oh, soupy or what? Soupy or what? And it just turns out my feet aren't tomatoes. You know? Yeah. Soup Wednesday.

So he got... Seems like he got cold feet, Charles. You were scared to love. No, I love commitment, man. Yeah, I'm all about it. Yeah, I'm certainly not nervous to get married. You sure, man? Buddy, you got to get me out of here.

You got to break me out of jail just so I don't have to marry this chick who's trying to steal my body. Out of all the atrocities that go on in prison, getting married, he was just like, I got to go. It's like prison within prison. That's the funniest thing. All these fights that these serial killers have with women, it seems to them like it's more stressful than them murdering a bunch of people. Yes, like literally, it's harder to be married. Well, it wasn't long after this that Charlie either figured out or was told what Star's ultimate plan was. The entire time that Star and Hammond were visiting Charlie, the years they spent bringing him toothpaste and toilet paper,

they'd actually been planning to get a hold of Manson's body so they could cart it around the country in a glass case like Vladimir Lenin charging two bits of gander to check out Manson's corpse. Is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Just go be a carnival barker. I'd pay for, would you guys pay, like how much would you pay to see Manson's body? Nothing. Really? Why the hell would I care to see the corpse of Charles Manson?

I would pay to see his body. I would pay to see his body. What do you do? You look at it and then you're like okay. You get a cool selfie with it and you leave. Yeah, of course. I would definitely, I would see so much true crime shit that is a great true crime landmark. That's his body. I don't know.

That's awesome. That's where his body should end up, technically. His body should end up as a carnival. Yeah, as a traveling carnival side-show, yeah, that's a great place for Manson to end up. That's why I want my body to end up. You want to be just traveled around the country. Yeah. Yeah.

No one's paying to see your fucking corpse. I mean, we'll just... Ask podcasting the left listeners. How much money would you pay to see my corpse? They can see you in real life. It's true. Yeah. But after I'm dead, you guys can pick up my body and take pictures with me, just kind of draped on top of you

and putting things in my mouth and my pants off. I mean, you mean us or the listeners? The listeners. Okay, yeah, because I'm not going to pick up your body and take pictures. No, you've already used to it. You've seen it. You would have to freeze the body. The ins and outs of this are extremely complicated.

A lot of infrastructure. Yeah, there is a lot of infrastructure. But I'm sure they would have been able to find some investors. Maybe, or they'll just constantly be pulled over by cops and be like, hey, you got a corpse there in the back. We got a permit. All right. Okay.

So some say that Charlie never actually planned to marry Star. Some say that Charlie was the one who was actually manipulating her. But we here at Last Podcast think that when Charles Manson dies, it'll be from a broken heart. I honestly think so, though, in many ways. I do think that he thought he had one last go. He thought I still got it. These hot women, there's still women out there for you, Charlie. I know you listen to the show.

There's women that would still probably sit in your face anytime that you want. You just have to put your intentions out there first, say I'm here for love, not for the glove. Why does everybody always give benefit of the doubt to Charles Manson as if he is this great orchestrator of destruction? I think the guy is just completely insane. Of course. He's never organized anything. We're the only people who see this truth.

We're the only people who can see this because we know people like Charles Manson. We know that Charles Manson is just one of those guys that would show up at a party and be really fucking annoying and always talk a lot of shit. We had a lot of drugs and he would just like show up and pretend to be a big shot and then eventually, you know, he's full of shit. Yeah, but eventually he gets you a dune, buggy. But the problem is that he chose the wrong people to surround himself with. They all just became murderers.

Oh, choose your friends wisely. He went too far. He shouldn't have brought Tex in there. He wouldn't have brought Tex in there. It just would have been a weird Hollywood story. Charles Manson did not have enough alpha male in him to not have Tex in there. Because he could control Tex enough, Tex became his like. The enforcer.

The enforcer. The master blaster. He's the blaster. And Charles is the master. I guess. I don't know. Honestly, this is a kind of romantic episode. If you think about it, I know none of these relationships really worked out,

but if you can find love, open your heart, listen, think, respond, be, love. Thank you, Henry. That was really nice. All right. So that's serial killers and the women that love them. That's it. I highly recommend not loving them. I'm just going to say that.

I'd say just go for anybody else. Just go for, yeah, just go for a struggling actor who's currently a barista. And you never know. Maybe they'll be the next Brad Pitt and you can get in on the ground floor. Yeah. And then he can sleep with Marianne Coutilier while you're just out there raising your nine children that you've stolen from various countries. They did steal a lot of children though, to be fair.

They did. Well, I want to ask you guys something. I found plenty of women that were into serial killers. I even found some dudes that were into serial killers. There was this one guy who was super into Susan Atkins. Susan Atkins from the documentary, I Love a Serial Killer. Yeah, and Love with a Serial Killer. Yeah.

Which is really great. But it's a genuine love. He's stuck by her side until she died of brain cancer. Yeah. But I never found any gay dudes that were super into serial killers. That's what I was saying earlier when I said about the dudes that are why there are no men who are sexually obsessed with men. Yeah.

Serial killer men. I'm sure there are. Well, I also don't necessarily think that if you are gay and you are in prison, you don't need to rely on a pen pal to get laid. I guess there's a lot of dudes for you. I guess it's true. You know, Dahmer probably got laid a few times. The thing about who was openly gay though, a lot of the guys that killed boys with homosexual

urges were doing it to cover up being gay. Like John Wayne Gacy never wanted to say that he was gay. Jeffrey Dahmer was closeted for a long time. I don't know if he had any prison relationships because especially for the nature of its crimes, I'm certain it was very difficult for him to have a relationship. I will have to do some research on that. And if you have heard of anything like that, please send it to us. Yeah.

I didn't find any of the fan pages or anything like that or any sort of documentary or any kind of study on that at all. But I do. That is something that I found very interesting. Maybe it's just because it's hard to love another alpha male. What was the name of the dude that was having too much fun in prison? So they had to change those. Spec.

Spec. But now he was straight going in. Yeah. But he just was. He just went all in. He was like, Bruce Lee said, be like water. Fit any container that you poured into. That's a good boy.

All right. Well, yeah, that's this week's last podcast on the left. We're going to be in the UK here in a couple of weeks. Man, we sold out. We can't wait to see you guys when we're there. Don't forget, we're also coming to Portland and Seattle in December. We've got a couple of shows. I think we've got three shows in 2017 that we're going to be announcing here very,

very soon. I can't wait to have a cuppa and some curry and some hot beer. Gary Ridgway, right? Gary Ridgway, boy. That's kind of good. Of course, the whole reason why we're able to do all this stuff is because you guys give to our Patreon. If you'd like to give to our Patreon and get some free, cool shit and to just support

what we do here at Last Podcast on the left, go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left. Even a dollar helps. Every little bit helps. You guys are really changing our lives here. It's so fucking cool. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for supporting all this show.

It's here that Marcus and I do on Cave Comedy Radio as well. Abe Lincoln's top hat is absolutely crushing. Thank you so much for listening. The listener response has been amazing. Last podcast on the left, that's the show you're currently doing. Roundtable of Gentleman is also doing wonderful. So give that a listen. Lucky Bone Show, page seven.

Page seven is great. Page seven was really funny. And Sex and the Human Activities, after like a two-month hiatus, we're back. Oh, that's the show you talk about graphic sex with Henry's sister. I love it. No, we talk about mental illness mostly. We talked a little bit of graphic sex this time. With Henry's sister Jackie.

With Henry's sister Jackie. Yeah, we talked about her dark times. When she said she quote, tried on a lot of hats. Yeah, I think that's a term. That's interesting. That's sex show that your sister- You guys just wait until like you're in the middle of a mental health crisis and then you record the show? Oh, no, no, no.

We actually had to take a two-month hiatus because I was going through a mental health crisis. Hell yeah. Yeah, but I'm better now. Wow. You're doing great, Marcus. Thank you, Ben. It's a strange way you said it and then the yelling of thank you is hard. Follow me on Twitter at Henry Loves You and on Instagram at Dr. Fantasty.

Marcus Parks is Marcus Parks for Everything. Check him out. I'm Ben Kissel on Twitter and Ben Kissel one on Instagram, which again, I still don't know how to use. And follow the last podcast on everything at LP on the left. That's it. All right. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan.

Hail again. Hail me because in these times and tribulations, in this hard- When I'm president in 10 years. 10 years. You'll see. There's not going to be an election in 10 years. I will only be sympathetic to those who join me now. You're one of the dumbest people.

Oh, but gostellations. Gostellations, one and all.