Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 275: Oklahoma City Part II - Noodle McVeigh

Episode Date: June 27, 2017

On part two of our series we cover the life of Timothy McVeigh from his time as a Burger King employee to his discovery of the Turner Diaries to the possible war crimes he committed during his time in the Army. Water Lily Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Happy Happy Game Show Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Hus

There's no place to escape to. This is the last time on the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? I was watching this missing 411 documentary, you know, the new one that's about the different disappearances of the national parks. This is a documentary in quotations, right? It's a make them up, right? Honestly, this is a big deal because the idea is that the national park services will not put a check, put together a national database of missing people in their parks and they've got a lot of different people.

Little kids go missing every year, 40,000 kids. And so they played a snippet of Coast to Coast A.M. and I forgot, I swear to God, it's George Norrie in the background. And here I'm going, hey, we have an expert here on werewolves. I'm telling you, if a werewolf got a haircut, what kind of haircut would they get? But seriously, though, if a werewolf got a haircut, what kind of haircut would a werewolf get? I bet they keep it long. I think we can all agree they would get a brush cut, just like Timothy McVeigh. And by the way, this research in today's episode is absolutely amazing.

We're going to get into the Turner Diaries a little bit later on in the episode. Henry Zabrowski had a chance to read it and I want to applaud you for not having a brush cut right now. I was slightly concerned we were going to have a Scientology part two where you got a little bit too serious and a little bit too into it. It's not a good book. I'm going to say, first of all, on Goodreads, and I'll tell you why, it's very interesting. It's got three stars on Goodreads. And I'm going to say it needs a one star because it is controversial. Do not read the Turner Diaries.

You will be so upset. You're not going to like it. They're going to give me an opportunity to rail against it in a little bit. You'll be just as dumb as Timothy McVeigh and nobody wants that. We're on to Timothy McVeigh part two. We're going to get to know the guy a little bit better. Absolutely. But before we really get into Timothy McVeigh, I feel like that we need to address some things that people have said about the last episode.

We need to address our new Waco stance. Oh. Yes. What's the new Waco stance? I'm not for it. I'm against it? Not necessarily new Waco stance, but more like an evolved Waco stance. Okay.

I think what it comes from is I think people are saying that during our Waco episodes that we placed pretty much zero blame on the Branch Davidians. Place all of the blame on the ATF, but in our last episode, we of course put more blame on the Branch Davidians, and that has more to do with us finally hearing the audio recording of Branch Davidians saying, David said to pour the gas, right? Yep. David said to pour the gas. Do I do it on the kids? Wait a second.

We fuck these kids. Obviously, as new information comes to light, we'll always evolve in our thinking and our point of view. I've always blamed David Koresh's glasses, so I've had a staunch, I'm opposed to aviator sunglasses, because nothing has ever good come out of someone wearing them. But the ATF did fuck up, right? Yeah, of course. Obviously, we're saying, look, obviously, they're at least partially to blame, but mostly in my eyes, after doing research, especially for these last couple episodes, which is some of the most upsetting research I've ever done,

nothing like truly hiding your computer at work while I have to turn her diaries up and all of these William Pierce lectures up, which I'm just bad news. So hold on. You're researching something that you have to hide from the cast of your pretty face is going to hell? That's an adult swim. Okay, maybe it is a little bit too intense. Yeah. Well, I am the White Devil.

And so I'm reading all of this bullshit, and it really does make me kind of swing more towards, I mean, the branch of Indians kind of ask for it. If you want Armageddon, and you're saying that you want Armageddon to happen, and then you're going to spark it. They sparked it. And the ATF provided that. But the problem is that the ATF, in their fuck up, they created the optics that the patriot movement slash white supremacist movement will then use to radicalize people. And that's really where the biggest fuck up is, is that picture. The picture of the compound burning, the tank going in, and it like looking, ripping through the wall, like that kind of shit is what,

it's very easy to get a bunch of yokels whipped up if you just got plenty of pictures. And of course, the information, there was a lot of information gaps, and those gaps were filled by anyone who wanted to fill them with whatever strange political philosophy they wanted to fill them with. Well, I would also say, like, I wouldn't say that the branch of Indians were asking for it. David Koresh was asking for it. All of these things happened under the direction of David Koresh. David Koresh directed them to stockpile weapons. He directed them to do it in an illegal way. And then once the ATF descended and the FBI descended, when the FBI and the ATF gave him an out to end this whole thing, he went back on his promise.

And in the end, it was David Koresh who decided to not only burn down the buildings, but if you look at the forensics of the bodies who were found in the ashes of Waco, a lot of them were shot in the head by each other. I mean, this is something that people fell under the spell of a cult leader, and they ended up dead for it because that cult leader, like Henry said, wanted Armageddon. It's like the book The Secret. He had a dream and a vision for the future, and he made it come true, and that is a joke, but it's also exceptionally accurate and true. But let's get into Timothy McFay, shall we? Well, no, one thing I wanted to say, too, is that also what Waco provided was a meeting spot for all these racist idiots to show up and spread a bunch of literature at the foothills of the compound, which sort of made it almost as bad as Woodstock 98.

I was going to say Bonnaroo, yeah, so the Bonnaroo for white supremacists. Well, Timothy James McFay, let's get into the bio of the man himself. Timothy James McFay was born the middle child of three on April 23, 1968, and Lockport, New York, to Mickey and William McFay. And contrary to what you might think, McFay was actually raised in upstate New York in the Buffalo suburb of Pendleton. Now, was he born with the brush cup? That's what I want to know. When he crowned, did the doctor be like, we have a white supremacist on our hands? I will say, though, if he is from being from Buffalo, you could see where he got the chip on his shoulder.

Oh, everybody above Westchester is so jealous of New York City. According to a neighbor as a child, McFay always wanted to play the hero in any Cowboys and Indians cops and Roberts type of games. From a young age, McFay always saw himself as the avenging spirit righting wrongs, i.e. the good guy. Of course he did. Now, while playing one of these games in 1973, McFay slipped and fell while standing on a metal milk carton, and he landed on his head, giving McFay the now almost customary head injury that we find in most mass murders. I have to wonder, why was he standing on the milk carton? It doesn't sound like a very fun game. You get the feeling he was just pretending to be George Wallace, and he's just like, I'm the hero of this situation.

Everyone's like, George Wallace is a horrible governor. He's a racist and a bigot. Am I the hero? Years later, when Star Wars hit, McFay made his own lightsabers out of flashlights and golf club tubes and pretended to be Luke Skywalker, which was a fantasy that little Timmy would never grow out of. Sometimes what I hope is that there's some kind of like bigger man, an older man who comes and he's got a long beard and he teaches me, he takes me out to a cave and he teaches me all about the wonders and delights of physically exploring my sister. And I'm psychic. Sounds like Osama bin Laden or something. Oh man, Star Wars is the story of space Osama bin Laden. That's what Luke Skywalker is.

Oh, you're not original on that one. It's been talked about a lot. A lot of people had a hot take about that. Yeah, it's been a lot of hot takes about Luke Skywalker being radicalized over the years. Now McFay was also a devoted reader of comic books and a hardcore Trekkie, particularly when Star Trek The Next Generation came out in 1987. Henry will now read an excerpt from a letter McFay wrote as an adult, comparing himself to the different characters in Star Trek The Next Generation. Jean-Luc Picard, most respected man in Starfleet, knows all the systems, highly skilled diplomat, yet lonely man, keeps his emotions in check. No quality I dislike or don't understand. Worf, the consummate warrior. I do consider myself a warrior. Data, android, so no emotion, like myself, logic rules. He's a Spock equivalent.

I would say the Spock derivative, if we want to get down to it, I mean in the end is obviously a copy, a lesser Spock, he's a poor man Spock. At the same time, I appreciate the android aspect because I like the idea that humankind would advance. This is all, that's just me. LaForge, chief engineer, highly proficient in this field. I absolutely relate to the pride and care he takes in the upkeep of his systems, which you don't even know. Right, you don't know. You're just making that up. No, actually, I will say too, in his defense, Jordy LaForge always did take much pride in knowing the engineering section of the Starship Enterprise backwards in time. We've got the world's most extreme nerd alert, nerd alert, nerd alert, Timothy McVeigh, the biggest nerd in history, nerd alert. Now, the book American Terrorists, where much of McVeigh's biographical information comes from, is the only one that took the story straight from McVeigh's mouth,

and he does try as hard as he can to make himself look good throughout. You could tell because of his haircut. In the end, a man who takes pride in his experience will always make sure to push all of his hair to the very top of his head like it's a shitty fucking hat. Now, McVeigh's line was that he always hated bullies because he himself had been bullied as a child with the American government being the biggest bully of all, but compared to even just what the three of us went through, not even counting everything that our listeners have gone through, just compared to what we went through, McVeigh's bully stories are mild to say the least. Totally mild, and sometimes bullies are accurate. Sometimes they pick out the right people. Yeah, McVeigh wasn't bullied enough.

Yeah, McVeigh probably should have gotten the shit beat out of him, unless he was taught maybe the magic of theater, and that's where bullies can sometimes lead kids to the right place. They go to a place of misfits where he can dance and sing his way, get his rage out that way. He would have been great. One story McVeigh told was of a kid who stole his baseball cap and then punched McVeigh when McVeigh tried to get it back, and of course McVeigh started crying in front of a bunch of other kids. That is, I can't believe what he's been through. I did too much, stop it Marcus.

In the other instances when a bunch of older kids tried and failed, failed to give him a swirly. Stop it Marcus, why would you even say that? The trauma is too much, we've covered a lot of things on this show, but the bullying experience of Timothy McVeigh might just be the one that broke Henry. I weep, I weep for him. That was it, that's all he went through, that's it. No, he wasn't bullied, he had some kids give him shit a couple of times. The only other thing that was kind of sort of mean that since McVeigh was tall and lanky, kids called him Noodle McVeigh.

I wish, my nickname was Hippo, and I wish that people would have called me Noodle Kissle, and I'm like, I am kind of thin aren't I? My nickname was Jackass. That was kind of fun. I was a hyper kid, you know, like I didn't know when to shut up, so yeah, it was just Jackass, yeah, Jackass. Hey, hey, hey, look, look, look, I found some dirt, hey, hey, hey, look, I found this rock, hey, hey, hey, hey, look. That's not that far off, honestly. It is a nickname that grandpa would give Leatherface from Texas Shades on Massacre.

Yes! You can't hire him! Sounds like a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle like side villain. Also, Noodle McVeigh, if he just had to wear with all to understand that there would be whole channels devoted to cooking and to food, he would have been an incredible, like, cart noodle, like, around the world kind of guy as, hey, I'm Noodle McVeigh, and here we're checking out Udon, like, that would have been so much fun! I love good ramen. So, in 1979, McVeigh's parents split for the first time, and so, in looking for a stabilizing family figure, McVeigh turned to his paternal grandfather, Ed McVeigh.

Ed was the one who introduced him to the wonderful world of guns, which would become a lifelong love and obsession for Timothy McVeigh. Now, it does seem to me like Ed McVeigh sounds like a name of a man who would love yachts! Doesn't he sound like a guy who just gets a yacht and brags about it, but there's no water around for, like, a thousand miles? Oh, you gotta go and check out my yacht, and it's just like a chair with a bunch of balloons tied to the sides of it. Honestly, again, you can have a collection of guns. I think I understand that. Have a collection of guns. I watched a video today of this guy who was the world's most armed man.

He had this little, like, he had all these tanks and anti-aircraft guns, which is probably a little irresponsible, but he seemed to me like a museum. The only thing you cannot do is stockpile guns, and that's sort of the difference between, like, an Etsy shop version of guns and, like, a Costco of guns, where you just don't have the Costco of guns. You just have all different types. You can. Yeah, if you, like, say, like, hey, I need a pistol and a shotgun and a rifle. Great, but you don't need 16 Glocks, 32 AK-47s.

You just don't need them unless you are a gun business yourself, which I guess you can say that. I can't wait to get a bunch of guns. Well, really, this whole goddamn thing comes down to McVeigh's love of guns. See, McVeigh, he didn't give a shit about the Branch Davidians as a people. He was just concerned because the government was coming for their guns, and in fact, the final straw for McVeigh wasn't even Waco. The final straw was the Brady Bill and the Assault Rifle Band in the early 90s. Yeah, and then Brady Bill took ten years to pass.

The government was not coming after their guns. It's a total misnomer, a complete lie. Gun sales under a Democratic presidency skyrocket. The irony is under Trump, they're down 17%. Yeah. Because they're just, like, chilled out under President Trump. Meanwhile, Jeff Sessions was like, give me your family. I'm putting them in jail. Everyone's getting detained. Well, they're not getting all whipped up all the time.

That's what happens with whoever is on the other side of power, especially when a Democrat's in power. All of the gun owners get all whipped up by the NRA and all these other guys in order to drum up gun sales. It's a simple formula. And the Brady Bill was, like, nothing. Simple background check that's been dismantled ever since anyway. I want a whip. I want to train myself how to use a whip, because that is a silent weapon that you can also use as a belt. Oh, that's a good point.

But before we get to the Brady Bill and all that type of shit, we got to talk about Burger King. Oh. I love Burger King. Oh, I used to work at Burger King. You know that. I used to fire for impregnating the chicken nugget with barbecue sauce and ketchup. We know your legacy that you left behind at the Stevens Point Burger King. No, it was good. So in 1985, McVeigh started a years-long career of flipping burgers.

While he was working at Burger King, he met the woman who would make the then 17-year-old Timmy a man. I don't want to hear this story. You don't want to hear how Timothy McVeigh lost his virginity? Yeah, you know what? You should be thankful he lost his virginity, or else we would have had four Oklahoma City bars. Probably true. According to McVeigh, a married woman, 10 years his senior started flirting with him while he was at work. And he eventually...

Hey, young noodle, how you doing? Can't help it, seeing you seem to trade your daytime shifts for a nighttime shift, so you could be close to the old gunfire. Yeah, they call me guns. Oh, and tell me, how'd you get your hair looking like it's all at the very top of your head? That's so nice, it's so economical. I bet you fuck good. Oh, she sounds like a woman whose favorite show would be Storage Wars. You don't know what's in there.

You know, all these good, clever guys outside, they're guessing. But they don't know, that's where the drama is. So did you want the whopper and what, onion rings? Yeah, I'll tell you what, you want my onion ring. I made my... I guess I do. Well, McVeigh eventually worked up the courage to ask her over to his dad's house while his dad was at work, and the older woman took little noodle's virginity.

Tell me something, tell me, do they call you noodle for a reason? I should hope so, because I like them long and thin. All right, you're not one to hear this. It's just a tiny little hole, because they had to stuff up all the rest, because I split it too much while I was riding my scooter around. I split my vagina up all the way to the top of my bellybutts, so a doctor had a stapler shut, and now I got a tiny little hole. A lot of detail, I don't think we need to go into it anymore.

I think we've covered her. I think we've covered the most unsavory character we've ever covered, the woman who took Timothy McVeigh's virginity. That American hero. Well, about a year after that, Tim graduated high school in 1986. His yearbook quote was, Take it as it comes, buy a Lamborghini, California girls. Just sounds like his favorite musician was Joe Walsh,

and he just wanted to live that life so bad. The front row of a Sammy Hagar concert. Just like, woo, woo, Sammy, fuck Van Halen, fuck Van Halen. Seriously, I hate Van Halen. Well, after high school, Tim took the love of guns and stilled in him by his grandfather a step further and started subscribing to various hardcore right wing magazines such as Soldier of Fortune.

And in the back pages of these magazines, Tim found ads for books. He started off with fairly harmless books, like one called Terrage, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth, which was just, it was kind of like a pro-gun, like survivalist combat manual is written by this guy who is the editor at large of Guns N' Ammo magazine. What's that magazine all about? Guns N' Ammo! I see, that's just a clever name. Very good.

It's also the kind of super serious gun magazine where they don't even have anything about, like, there's no hot chicks in it. Yeah, that's the saddest thing. I think it's totally fine if you have, like, a couple of gun babes in there. I think that's fine, but if there's no gun babes, most of these weird Republican literature, like this weird, like, gun nut literature, is decidedly not very sexy.

Well, actually, I think Soldier of Fortune is full of gun babes. That's gun babes? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Guns N' Ammo, there's no gun babes in Guns N' Ammo, but Soldier of Fortune, I'm pretty sure they've got a lot of gun babes in there. Very good, very good. Well, this is what one review of a Terrage shoot straight and speak the truth said. This new collection would delight those who thought fireworks didn't have enough gun stuff.

There is gun stuff galore in these pages, and the ideas are new and thought-provoking and exciting. Wow, gun stuff. That's what I'm looking for when I read a magazine. How to cook eggs with a gun. Crack about five or six eggs into a pan. Then you use the gun as the spoon. That's how you cook eggs with a gun.

I think that's how Warren Ziba. I think that's how Hunter S. Thompson died, brother. Now, besides the gun stuff, the survivalist stuff spoke to Tim on a personal level, because in 1977, western New York, where Tim grew up, was hit with one of the worst blizzards the state had ever seen. A lot of people were totally unprepared and were stranded in their homes for days at a time,

and when all was said and done, 23 people were dead. So what are you saying? He's saying that they needed guns so they could go outside and shoot the snow? That was what they were going to do. They had to defend themselves against the snow? No, he wasn't just a gun. He was also a survivalist. Yeah, he was a survivalist type of guy.

That's why he was getting ready for all this stuff. That's why he liked the books, like, to ride, shoot straight and speak the truth. I tell you what the first problem is, is these Jew clouds. These Jew clouds are bringing us these Jew snow, and you know who's not getting out here fast enough? The black snow plowman. That would be something that Timothy and me have thought, because he's anti-Semitic and racist.

Yes, thank you, Ben. No problem. Tim was also obsessed with post-apocalyptic movies like The Omega Man, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes. Love Planet of the Apes. I'm sure he had some special words when he watched that, but we're not going to go into that. Timothy and me, not a good man.

The authors of American Terrorists, they make a really good point when they say that survivalism was pretty much McFay's hobby. That's every humankind's hobby. All of life on Earth, their one hobby is to survive. I don't understand how that makes it... Modern survivalism, Buffalo, New York, 1970s and the 80s, they just go to the store.

So I don't even understand. It's not like he's in the desert of New Mexico. No, Pickley Wiggly's right there. Let's just go! Just go to the Pickley Wiggly. He's like, I've survived another day. There's a special on Hostess Twinkies. Yeah, but it's like, how do you make a fire? You don't need to.

You go to Pickley Wiggly and you get a lighter. But what happens when the Pickley Wiggly is overrun by apes? Oh. You know what, now you got me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, you can't argue with that. Wow, who's right? This whole survivalism thing,

it's not what sent Timothy McFay down the path to Oklahoma City, nor was his general love of guns what set him down the path to Oklahoma City. Man, there's plenty of people that are way into this shit. They're totally law abiding and are probably a lot of fun to hang out with. Like a fucking key bump from the adult swim stream. I'm sure he's one of these types of guys

and he's great to hang out with. He must be. But think about how fun a bunker is. I have the idea of a bunker. I want a bunker. The idea of having a lot of fun, different types of guns, is a lot of fun. Like those guys, my grandfather had an old, like unexploded hand grenade that was still alive

and he kept it in his office. He'd give it to me and I'd play with it a lot. It was a lot of fun. That's true. It seems a little dangerous, but that's okay. It's fun. You know, the funniest thing is, I do watch some of those extreme bunker shows

and they have these elaborate bunkers 30 feet behind, you know, underneath the ground. But then there's always a huge chimney that's like three feet from the ground. It's like, you just go to that and you'll know where the bunker is. But anyway. Also, there's an ancient new millennial propaganda machine

called the tiny house industry that is trying to turn bunkers and shacks into being sexy ways to live for cheap, but they are still bunkers and shacks. They still get some weird backyard. Just because you put a pergola on it, doesn't mean it's a fancy little house. Bunch of lies.

They're telling us lies. I agree. Well, what turned McVeigh from hobbyist to true believer was a little book called The Turner Diaries. The Turner Diaries is a very poorly written novel released in 1977 that follows the life of a dipshit named Earl Turner, who eventually makes a truck bomb to destroy FBI headquarters in response to stricter gun laws.

Does it sound fucking familiar? Sounds a bit familiar. Yeah. Now, Henry as our resident expert on The Turner Diaries. Good. Good. Yes, keep saying that. Yes, make sure it's recorded.

Would you care to elaborate a little bit more on this book as someone who has actually read this hunk of fucking chess? And also, Henry, how many times did you have to say, I'm doing research when people found you reading that book? Constantly. Because also the way we when we are in heavy research mode for the show, it's all I can talk about. Yeah.

So I'm in there like talking about The Turner Diaries to people and I realized if anybody just turns a corner and I'm in the middle of being like, if I just say anything good, you could take out a concert being like, and they show exactly how to take down the FBI headquarters. And then all of a sudden I'm the one. I'm the fucking criminal.

Stoo. Stoo. Not stoo. We didn't get to T for a reason on A to Z. Well, look at, fill us in on this book. Like, tell us what all this shit's about. So The Turner Diaries is a shit-fuck piece of garbage written by another shit-fuck piece of garbage

by the name of William Luther Pierce under the pseudonym of Andrew McDonald because he was too much of a pussy to write it under his real name originally until he got known for it. Now, The Turner Diaries is basically, it's just sort of concept about a bunch of like rebellious white dudes forming a militia to destroy the juron black-enforced government.

And they all believe it now has happened. Now, William Pierce wrote this. He says, there's a warning of what will happen if we do not desegregate the United States of America. Or re-segregate the United States of America. And then he felt that these were just the natural things. He was not trying to inspire the Oklahoma City bombing except for the fact that The Turner Diaries

is a day-by-day diary and a manual to how to run a tiny militia. It shows exactly how to build a fucking truck bomb. It shows you how all the different militias, how they communicate each other, how they fucking, their philosophy. And also you have to be racist at the very top of reading The Turner Diaries.

You just get that if you're racist. There's no way, because it kind of assumes you hate all other people besides white people. And basically this whole thing is the basis for the anti... Saying anti-racist means you're anti-white. So I watched the YouTube clip that you sent over. First of all, this guy reminds me of the founding fathers

from the movie The Purge. He has that. And also... William Pierce is one of the worst pieces of shit on the face of the planet. He was a part of every single... He was part of the John Birch Society. Every one of those conservative strings of people that if ever wanted to ruin everybody's good time,

he's always been a part of it. And then he thankfully died of very bad cancer, which is awesome. Well, you know, the interesting thing though, he says he didn't want to plan or inspire this Oklahoma City bombing. To me, that's like Ikea telling you that when you buy a couch from them,

they don't want to show you how to put it together. You know? It's like, he literally broke it down in a very plain English how to do something like this. Well, it wasn't just... Incredibly plain interest, because you have to be an idiot to be it too and to actually take it to be true.

And to understand the book. He wrote it for dumb people. And he wrote it for angry people. The idea is it's confirming your bias. You're reading this. And a part of... It's very interesting, because the book, it's so step by step

as to how to do it. And it's like what ISIS does with their... But it's also like an action movie. So it's like what ISIS does with their recruitment videos. It looks super exciting. You get to be a part of this whole movement and then you get guns

and you're doing different identities and wearing disguises. And eventually the last 20 pages of that book is some of the worst things I've ever read in terms of the smile on Earl Turner's face as they watched the forced marches of black people across into Mexico. And all of this very, very intense stuff.

It's radical literature. Richard Spencer stuff. Didn't they also add a love story in there as well? I have a whole thing here. I wanted to get to this later because this just shows how Timothy McVeigh felt about women and how he felt women should be

because his whole concept of being like, like when he would hit on a woman. Well, the Turner Diaries didn't just inspire Timothy McVeigh. They also inspired a white supremacist bank robber gang called the Order because the militia in the Turner Diaries was called the Order

and these guys modeled their own militia after that. And they weren't just bank robbers. They also murdered a radio host back in the 80s. I'm gonna say they're more murderers then. I think murder trumps the bank robber. Yeah, I think murder does... Yeah, they murdered a Jewish radio host who had spoken out against white nationalism in the 80s.

The Order fell apart because they were a bunch of morons but then the ARA, the Aryan Republican Army started up a little bit later which was kind of the fundraising mechanism for the entire white separatists, wherever the fucking term is. Separatists, yeah. They were supposed to raise money

by doing politically motivated bank robberies that we're gonna find out that's a conspiracy and whether or not Timothy McVeigh was a part of the ARA but they were directly also inspired by the Turner Diaries and a part about this guy named Louis Beam that was talking about this idea of leaderless revolution which was, again, it's an ISIS technique. It's a terrorist technique.

They believe in killing people and attacking people's families, the concept of collateral damage, all of these... And the worst part is that it's just yokels. It's yokels doing all the grunt work because they're mad and they're easily radicalized by this literature and all of these pamphlets and these meetings that basically take the responsibility for their own failures out of their hands

and put it in everybody else. And then it's run by technically geniuses. Like William Pierce is technically a very smart man. He was a physicist and he was a part of... It's very fucked up the way they also use science to sort of back up their racist ideas and also religion with the Christian identity stuff. That's very weird.

This idea that Europeans are the real Israelites. That makes no sense. Again, you're not taking this seriously, right? What are you talking about? Well, that's a thing with Timothy McVeigh is that even though the Turner Diaries is wildly and explicitly racist at almost every turn, McVeigh always maintained that it was the book's

anti-government pro-second amendment stance that spoke to him specifically. Because they are Siamese twins. The two concepts are right next to each other. It's really fucked up. Well, that's what it is. But to people like McVeigh, racism is secondary. It's a kind of foregone conclusion.

It's folded into their worldview, but it isn't the whole point like it is with groups like the Ku Klux Klan. Like with people like Timothy McVeigh, he's one of those people that's like, oh yeah, black people are terrible, except for my friend Mike. He's one of the good ones.

Because he's got a bunch of guns. But he said he didn't enjoy the Ku Klux Klan because he said they were bad for the youth. That is true. It's nice he's looking out for the youth. Well, this is how they caught kids like McVeigh. Ads for the novel always posed a simple question. What will you do if the government comes for your guns? Which is a fun question for a kid.

I mean, I'm serious. If you're a kid, that's the end. I totally get that. Yeah, and especially if you're a fucking nerd like Timothy McVeigh, it's like, what will I do when the evil empire comes to take my lightsaber? That's what he has in his head.

That's the sort of connection that he's making is that his gun is his lightsaber and the American government is the evil empire. He's Luke Skywalker on Tatooine. He is. Not to be too cliche in 2017, but all of these guys, when you read the Turner Diaries and you hear him speaking about his beliefs,

they all sound like those 300 pound neckbeard guys on YouTube that if all have, it's been like, yeah, well, if a zombie invasion, highly unlikely as it is, if a word had come about by some biological or some even form centaurea, some form of centaurea,

you got to get to high ground. And importantly, as I know, and me and my buddies know, me and Carl, who works at the Zip and Go, we've both been talking about how we can get some machine guns from our other friend who works at the other Zip and Go on 45. They're all just so full of shit. They all just think they know how to handle everything.

Yeah, and all of these people, the paranoia of the government coming for your guns, that is a very real thing. Which is not happening. There's over 300 million guns in this country. Everyone's guns are totally safe. I promise you the government would, they understand what a horrible idea

that would be to go after your guns. We'd be Waco on a mass level. I don't think they want to do that any time soon. Also, they have drones. They got drones. They're going to kill you with drones. You get a drone. You get drones, but guerrilla warfare is

devastatingly hard to battle. Hey man, I'm just saying I want mech-warrior suits. I just want them to take the whole thing. Let the robots just have the whole thing. I understand what your theory is. Well, in the Turner Diaries, Timothy McVeigh found a Bible. He found a guide.

And over the years, Tim would become damn near evangelical about the Turner Diaries and woe be to the person who asked any follow-up questions. So at this point in Tim's life, he decided that the best investment a person could make was in a good, solid gun. And this was admittedly a little smarter than his first investment idea,

which was comic books, which is just about the dumbest fucking investment a person could possibly make. You don't get a lot of money for you. You don't get a lot of return, huh? Don't get a lot of return on that. I remember when my father made me line up early when Superman's dead,

that comic book came out in a super limited edition, like Black Bag. And my father's like, we got to get on line because we got to get five or six of these things. This is what's going to help you pay for college. And then we sat and waited and we bought five of them and I wasn't allowed to open them up. And then finally I looked at them when I was 17

and I looked up the price guide and they were like $35. Fuck. That's pretty good. $35, you know those are worth now? $0.35. Yeah, because that's the thing, is that you and every other dumpy dumb shit went and bought five copies.

Supply and demand works. It's rarity and demand. Rarity and demand. If every fucking piece of shit has five copies, then none of it's going to be worth anything. You can totally see the meeting in DC offices where they're just like, is anyone going to buy this dump stuff? And they're like, there's a Zabrowski born every day.

Yes. This is for my future. Got him again. After Collected Comics for years, McVeigh tried to sell the collection he had spent thousands of dollars on, but the only person that was willing to buy him was the guy

that Tim had bought him from in the first place. And McVeigh only got $75 for the whole lot. So that guy is smart. That was the only smart guy so far in this story. I'll give you $75 for it. I paid $1,000 for all this stuff.

Is that funny? Because it's like, I got that thousand. And then I'm going to give you $75 for it. This is by me. You got to admire that. You're a friend of capitalism. Are those American flag underroofs?

That's $75 along with Tim's weekly Burger King paycheck. Wasn't going to buy the guns that Tim wanted, so Tim quit and got a job as an armed security guard in Buffalo. And after a couple of years of that, Tim decided to join the army.

Tim joined the army for two reasons. One, it was going to give him access to more guns and more free ammunition than he knew what to do with. That's a good reason. Two, Tim needed to feel like he was a part of something.

Totally get that. And that's a part of what the Turner Diaries, the way that ended up working, well, it's kind of like the idea of recruiting people for gangs or recruiting people for a cult. It's this idea of that you now have a built-in group of friends, things to do every day, it's structure. And it's very comforting.

The irony is these individuals espouse personal responsibility and being able to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and being your own god, your own force in the world. And all they're looking for is community, and they're also looking for excuses for their own failures.

Constantly. And he would meet many people with that attitude while he was in the army. And then the army, but I think that that's a really healthy way to do that, right? It's a way to sort of get that out, and if you're a comradery and if you do like guns, it's a great place to legally

get to murder people. Oh, yeah. And that's the thing is that McVeigh actually said that if he had lived in a bigger city, he probably would have joined a street gang instead of going into the army. He just needed some place to belong to. Can you imagine a roving pack of people with brush cuts?

Just like, I don't even know what you are. Yeah, they're called the Marines! Oh, that's right! Thank you for your service, thank you for all the Marines very much. No, I just mentioned around looking around like looking for the white gang from West Side Story. Someone's got to let me swing a chain.

All they want to do is swing a chain and have friends. Well, Timothy, you can't snap your fingers, so you're out of the gang. That's clapping. Tim, that's clapping. We need you to snap your fingers. By all accounts, McVeigh

was a fantastic soldier. One officer was actually quoted as saying he would be unbeatable with a hundred Timothy McVeigh's at his command. It's like, what's that movie with the drones and they're all the same army and they all look the same?

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory! The Oompa Loompas! But I would also say that that movie is technically about the sweetest form of slavery. There is an undercurrent of Willy Wonka, we're not going to get into it. I would like your shit! If we're getting...

if the chocolate pat goes to another tiny little island country and he ships a bunch of people over to work at his factory. If we really want to get into it, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory was more indentured servitude than it was slavery. Either way, so... Either way, Willy Wonka is not a good man.

No, he's not, and he should be shamed, and I want him to apologize. I want them to take George Gene Wilder's bones out of his fucking grave and I want you to move his jaw up down saying I'm sorry for cotton in another hour will be walking to exist that's the things that McVay he's doing great in the army but he just wouldn't

stop talking about the goddamn Turner Diaries and in this incessant talking about this stupid fucking book McVay found two people who were actually willing to listen Michael Fortier and Terry Nichols two people that just didn't mind being spoken at well they already had the well they already had these beliefs when they got into the army specifically Terry Nichols Michael 48 Fortier was he was a burnout like he was a fucking method he was a podhead he had all these dumb shit views and really in the scheme of the larger scheme of things Fortier would be more instrumental in sending McVay to the

death chamber than he would be in the planning of the actual Oklahoma City bombing but Terry Nichols would be integral to the planning and execution of the Oklahoma City bombing can you imagine being the level of loser yeah that you would look up to Timothy McVay I know I was that you would you would be like wow I almost guys got it going on I almost think Terry Nichols he's not worse than Timothy McVay but I don't I have no respect for either of them but I almost have less for Timothy for for Terry Nichols I really I mean how do you let a first of all McVay is much younger correct McVay is ten years

younger and so how do you let this kid convince you to do these things and obviously in the future we'll get to all that stuff well we're gonna cover it but yeah yeah well that's the funny thing is that when they first met yeah McVay was ten years younger than Terry Nichols and actually like McVay looked up to Nichols in the beginning but it got flipped and turned around think about this too is that these guys are probably when they hear the term Turner Diaries no one's they don't know anybody else it's been reading the Turner Diaries like they've been reading the Turner

Diaries it's kind of like I don't want to equate it but people who find like other fans of last podcast like outside like oh you like that disgusting thing me too thankfully we have more than three listeners it's a little it's a little club that they can all belong to and no one else gets it but they do exactly and Nichols was one of those guys who blamed everybody else for his failures and bad decisions and he blamed nobody more than the US government oh and it was also said Darius time in the army is that he looked like Woody Allen in uniform we should also be interesting because he goes on to marry

a underage Asian woman like Timothy McVay Nichols also came from a broken home for example his mother when confronted by a sheriff's deputy for throwing beer cans into a cornfield she came after the deputy with a chainsaw but when she couldn't get it started cuz she was too drunk she just threw it at him and ran away did you say broken home or like incredibly fun home just talk about what great stock to come from what wonderful DNA that should definitely be kept pure do not let any other race sully that wonderful DNA no way so when McVay and Nichols first met what I like I said McVay actually

looked up to Nichols as McVay had finally found another person who shared his beliefs and half-baked bullshit conspiracy theories but eventually the whole thing got flipped and McVay controlled Terry's entire life dragging him into a bomb plot that killed dozens that's at least according to Terry Nichols taking no responsibility once again yeah absolutely but in 1989 Nichols left the army under a hardship discharge and wouldn't reconnect with McVay again for another couple years and in Nichols absence McVay's conspiracy beliefs and things like the United Nations coming to take over the United

States only grew and these conspiracy theories would only be bolstered when the first Gulf War broke out in 1991 so Terry Nichols just told his general that it's hard I understand it's much different than no hardship he has said that he had a like a family emergency he had like his farm back in Michigan was falling apart or something he had a family hardship so he was able to get a hardship discharge I do my mom was chasing a hog down a well and she got stuck in it hip deep and legs are kicking around like it's a loonatune cartoon and I have to go to Fulton County and get enough butter to get her

out of the way that you know what that is a hardship mr. Nichols you're dismissed well in 1991 Gulf War began when Iraq under the direction of dictator Saddam Hussein invaded the small but oil rich country of Kuwait who was an American ally McVay was actually about to go into special forces training when war was declared which put his training on hold until after the war was done now when America went over to battle the Iraqis they were told to expect the worst the book Oklahoma City quoted one Vietnam veteran on the eve of battle who said take your worst nightmare then quadruple it then

quadruple it again and you still won't get to where you'll be this time tomorrow wait hold on is this a common core math question I am completely I quadruple the quadruple let's say your first experience what do you expect is it to you don't want to make that into two apples four times that is that's two four sets of let me I have to draw it you gotta draw everything's done in apples US soldiers were told to expect mines barbed wire artillery an anti tank fire nerve gas and the dreaded Skud missile do you guys remember I remember the scope of the Skud missile I had you guys remember fucking desert storm

trading cards I remember the desert sure yes and if you got who was it general Norman Schwartzkopf Schwartzkopf that was a big card to get I had a short I believe it was an ace these are trading cards like you actually got to buy these in supermarkets that's how weird in gung-ho the 1991 Gulf War was they made poker cards as well with the with the full things and then they also did that in 2002 yeah the invasion of Iraqi for the invasion of Iraq part do well the Gulf War was a little bit different than really any other war that America's been in because

everybody was kind of feeling guilty about how we had treated veterans coming back from Vietnam oh yeah and of course like and America wanted a good war the way that we treated veterans after Vietnam was atrocious these were the people who were drafted that weren't able economically or for whatever reason to get out yeah and everyone got gung-ho about the Gulf War let's get in let's do it this is also the beginning of the cable news glorifying war showing the missiles dropping getting a real big fucking boner as it's happening we watched it in or I believe it was a just a civics class or something like that we

watched it live yeah because the attack happened during the day in America but it was a night so of course we had the classic green imagery of all the missiles and all the explosions of course we don't see what happens after the explosion occurs we don't want to see that part no we just watched it it was like the family got together and we sat and we watched the war yeah it was kind of interesting really go when I'm gonna put the war on even though the war lasted for like three or four days mm-hmm that's the thing is that we thought that this is gonna be a long hard-fought battle but it was one of

America's easiest victories and most decisive victories they call it the hundred hours war yeah and in fact McVeigh would kill more people with the Oklahoma City bombing than America would lose in all the fighting in the Gulf War and even of those Americans who died during the Gulf War 35 of those combat dead deaths came from friendly fire which I don't like the term friendly fire by the way I mean there's nothing friendly about it there's nothing friendly about it there's nothing friendly about it but this was interesting we didn't go in there to kick Saddam Hussein out of course Saddam Hussein a

Sunni of Muslim minority he was a great stabilizing leader in that region as a matter of fact as we've seen now with him obviously out of power yeah so this whole war was this whole war was one of the quickest and most successful wars that the US has fought was Bush senior realized that if you destroyed that centralizing that kind of weird stabilizing dictatorship in the middle of there then it's gonna create a forever war and you're gonna be constantly fighting all these rogue people trying to take over the area which is what we technically Dick Cheney wanted to happen and what allowed 9-11

happen yeah well what are we in a year 15 now 14 even more I think I think it's 16 yeah but yeah that's why of course HW did not want Cheney or Rumsfeld or Ashcroft to be with W he actually told them he told W not to go with them but anyway that's a whole nother story for a different show well you actually go and listen to 9-11 part 2 yes more on that so for McVeigh's part in the war he was a gunner on a Bradley fighting vehicle although the official name for his vehicle was Charlie 11 McVeigh renamed it bad company after the song bad company by bad company off the album bad company that's good branding I love bad

company for making everything bad company oh yeah bad company it's like there's this other great band to the this band called panther man no the song panther man what I panther man of the album panther man perfect you won't ever forget it never forget unless you just never ever ever think of panther man yeah I never heard of panther man before panther man's great and speaking of bad company McVeigh would play it over and over again on his Walkman over the vehicles intercom system along with Queen and White Rabbit by Jefferson airplane hey hey tell me that McVeigh was just a DJ from Jack FM hey Tim I you

know we all love bad company in the troop we've been bad company I got this new Metallica song that we were you know this you know there's only four bands right I can't have this Metallica around here this is some kind of fake band there's only four real bands it's bad company bad company side band worst company and white rabbit I don't even know the name of the band I just know so we won't be hearing any other music other than bad company correct so the prediction in Iraq was that the fighting was going to last seven or eight months with over a thousand American soldier deaths projected but whether it

was just bad recon or an outright lie about the frosty of the Iraqis the ground war only lasted four days before the Iraqis were completely overrun the Iraqi army was so badly run and unprepared that a lot of the Iraqis didn't even know they were fighting Americans they thought this was just an extension of the Iran-Iraq war yeah I mean they they propped it up like the Iraqi the Iraqis had like the fifth largest army in the world but that is a it's probably true but there's a big massive drop off from the first second third fourth to the Iraqis yeah they were just conscripts most of these

basic they weren't even in uniforms and they were given like shitty old like Russian AK's and that didn't even fire but maybe if they had enough heart they would have been the bad news bears of armies but back in 1991 as soon as the Iraqis saw America coming over the hill they either deserted or surrendered but not every soldier accepted those surrenders specifically Timothy McVay now the story the McVay told and the official story the army told us that McVay's only kills were two Iraqi soldiers that were in a bunker about a thousand yards away from McVay's Bradley and McVay actually got a medal he got a

condom commendation for the kill and apparently it was a bad-ass kill he was a thousand yards away he popped a guy that had stuck his head up from a bunker the guys had vaporized and the explosion of the Bradley shell killed the guy next to him as well I gotta say name of your McVay did choose the right profession they gave him a medal for this so he was like on the right track for his overall desires yes he was he was a very very good soldier and but he said that after doing this he got disillusioned with the army the Gulf War and the government after killing what he thought to be innocence he thought the Iraqis never

stood a chance we're just being bullied by America and it definitely was true that the Iraqis were slaughtered a lot of them were buried alive in the sand by advancing tanks some of them were blown to pieces by American artillery a lot of them were just straight up burned alive I mean the roads were lined with the corpses and body parts of Iraqi soldiers some were just being eaten by wild dogs brutal stuff but McVay's assertion that he felt some sort of sympathy for the Iraqi people doesn't ring true if you believe what some of his fellow soldiers say no it sounded like he was a little bit of a psychopath instead and really

like to like the power he got of getting having a gun legally and being able to kill people legally yeah yeah it sounds like he's the type of person that would murder 168 people yeah yeah three guys Larry frame Richard Cerny and Todd Rieger they were all a part of McVay's company and they want us to nickname ourselves bad company they all said that McVay shot soldiers as they were being taken prisoner including four prisoners that were already in custody well in cold blood just a bam bam bam that is a war crime that is a that is absolutely a war crime in fact when they went when the author of Oklahoma City

the authors of Oklahoma City went to talk to McVay's commander and asked him about this he refused to say anything out of fear that he might be investigated for war crimes perhaps court martial and even if that isn't true even if McVay did not kill those prisoners and even if he only killed the two Iraqis on record then that still means that McVay saw social security workers and their children as more deserving of death than a soldier pointing a gun at him well because it was a part of a revolution Marcus that's what you know William Pierce says with the reason why he disavowed the

Oklahoma City bombing after it happened William Pierce said oh that was because I know I do not agree with the Oklahoma City bombing because we were not in the revolution yet oh that was his that was his point and the same thing with calling himself a neo-nazi he's like we're not a neo-nazi group we've never been a neo-nazi group which is like yes do I both admire Hitler yes do I feel that his writings have been really important to the society and that the Nazis were victims yes but we don't just blindly copy people we're independent thinkers sounds like you're a neo-nazi that's where I'll put you in a

concentration camp fellow white man that makes you definitely a neo-nazi no no no no I have plenty other things they're called concentration areas oh very okay very good you get the feeling Timmy Timothy McVay understood the person who was aiming a gun at him yeah so that's the only reason he had any sympathy for him whatsoever he actually got that person's mentality yeah he totally got that and the idea that a soldier was a soldier in from a country that America was technically at war with was better than a government worker a government American worker totally in line with his ideology crazy because

McVay felt that the United States have been tricked into participating in the Gulf War by the United Nations at the behest of your classic international Jewish cabal I see Iraq wasn't the enemy in a cabal is it is cabal on Friday before he shot us on Saturday no furthermore when McVay returned from the Gulf War he was immediately offered to return to special forces training and he was exhausted he was out of shape he'd been in the desert for months and he had the option to wait until he was back in shape but he decided to go through with it anyway because he thought he was a badass and he thought

that he could handle it and of course he washed out after a couple of weeks but now he had a whole other thing to blame on the globalist conspiracy if the Gulf War wouldn't have happened the McVay would have become a green beret where he could have killed someone who in his mind actually deserved it so I am it's difficult to wrap rational your rational mind around there's a logic there's a logic but it's strange what there is a logic to every single thing that Timothy McVay does he is he is extremely I mean it's like we were talking about with Carl Panzram he is deliberate he has a logic he has a train of thought it's

sick and it's fucked up but it is there well and that's why you mentioned the last episode that he's not that's why he's not crazy no he's not crazy at all he also sought out validation yeah he sought it out he looked for it and he got it from his his fucking whack-pack group of idiot buddies in army and then the the literature that he would start to get at gun shows and he sent we went to basically create the confirmation bias around him that made all of these thinking feel normal and like and that's where I kind of get like upset because I I like conspiracy theory I think it's important to think creatively

quote-unquote news and big swishy quote quotes about the government and about the world and about reality but and but the problem is that like we have a lot of forces against conspiracy theory which is also sort of destroy the idea of investigative journalism above questioning things but the problem is that with conspiracy theories that you can go out and look for any information that you want to confirm that you that you were right and the gun so the government loves conspiracy theories yeah that's why they're able to operate and do everything in broad daylight in front of us and we're just like well I

know the truth is like the truth is is right in front of your eyes mm-hmm well after Timothy McVeigh washed out of green beret training of course fell into a very deep post-combat depression he told his supply sergeant that the army had implanted a computer chip in his butt for it but McVeigh he may have been speaking metaphorically here and there's also there's also some speculation that this is just something that he said to people to try to fuck with them and also to try to make them think that he was a little bit crazy I could see him in Timothy McVeigh's mind that being a creative funny joke mm-hmm

I also in the Turner Diaries the main form of torture that the black police officers have against the revolutionaries is putting big thick steel rods up their asses and they scream and scream but they don't break because they're true soldiers that have taken an oath never tell anyone their information no matter how many things they put inside their ass no big strong black men how they bend them over and just really forcing them and they almost act like they like it it's a bit of erotica in the Turner Diaries deeper please I'm much of a revolutionary I can I can handle how deep you put it

please put it deeper sir it's like what one of my mouth it up my butt so I'm like oh like I'm a Chinese finger trap you it's like what Satan does to Saddam Hussein or to Hitler rather in Little Nicky yeah which by the way I like Little Nicky I'm gonna defend Adam Saylor on that movie oh come on I love it if you would have had a different voice it would have been a really funny movie but he did the wrong voice and he fucked himself I still like it and I have done that how many times so McVay looking for anyone who might validate him at this point signed up for a trial membership with the Ku

Klux Klan saying he was impressed by a pamphlet of theirs he received a gun show okay this is what a trial membership like it's a YMCA or like a gold gym like you can try it for a week and if you don't like it full refund you know what the KKK is this is big with the deep Nazi-like nerdyism that is in all of these white these white power groups they're always like this because they want to see if you can handle it it's always this bullshit it's all just look how official we are you have a trial period and you sign up and there's like a weird invitation it's all that connected to the masons and they all do

the same shit they all pretend to blow each other with skirts on trial memberships are meant for field and stream and magazine and like sports illustrated yeah you do it just to get the telephone it looks like a football and then you can't out how many times I sign up for credit cards just to get a free sandwich over at the hungry house I did that four times my credit when I got out of college was 347 but after McVay's trial year with the KKK was over McVay didn't renew because he said the KKK was more devoted to the cause of racism and McVay was much more interested in a second second amendment

rights he said the KKK was quote manipulative to young people I'm just so glad somebody said it thank God and they are he's actually right about this no he was actually yeah of course McVay wasn't making any new friends in the army either he was known as a vaguely racist oddball who kept guns all over his house even in the bathroom and he slept on a set of Garfield sheets that he got for free from a friend although we cannot count that against Garfield we'll not allow them to stand against Garfield he did not choose he Jim Jim Davis did not send those sheets to Timothy McVay I don't know man you know

Timothy McVay loved Garfield he loved the way Garfield treated Nirmal he thought that John was weak oh no absolutely I would I guarantee you McVay loved Heathcliff he was no he's an independent guy guys doing whatever he wanted guys like this love the cornier version of everything that's what they do look at Garfield as one of the good ones whatever it is whatever I feel that cartoon cats well at the very least we one thing we do know is that McVay he was a cat man of he was a cat man yeah he was a cat guy he always had cats I couldn't dislike this guy more nothing wrong with cats no of course he's a cat

man and if you have a cat that's fine I love cats yeah but we all know there's something about a guy with a bunch of cats a guy a single man with cats although if you are a cat and Timothy McVay is your owner like that head that's a perfect scratching post the brush cut is a perfect haircut for a cat to scratch absolutely but God it's got to be so hard just to find those pure white cats that's such a pain in the ass yeah I don't know if you like have a cat like if you and your girlfriend had a cat together and you guys broke up and then you got the cat I can see you being a cat guy but like a guy that goes out and

gets like two or three cats like on his own like a single guy with a bunch of cats yeah unless you take care sometimes when we're having fun I let the cats they'll play with my chest and they act as if I'm mommy and they'll just nurse on me and it is just the most precious just out the DOM in my cats you named your cats a dog yes so since McVay hadn't found anyone else in the army willing to share his horseshit views besides just Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier a few years earlier Tim started attending gun shows more and more to find people who shared his worldview the army was starting to become one hassle after

another like when he was charged for a urine stain on his mattress even though McVay swore up and down that he definitely did not at any point wet the bed I could see I could see one of the fellow soldiers though just being like I got a funny joke to play on Tim I'm gonna piss on his bed in the end it wasn't any one big thing that led to McVay leaving the army it was more like just a bunch of little things you know I understand it is always the little things isn't it all Timothy McVay said when he left was that he had things to do and he could not do them within the army and then he put on his earbuds and

bad company played as he walked out the army and so in late 1991 McVay left a promising military career behind and moved back home to Pendleton New York remember this guy could have been a green beret he was on track he could have gone back to special forces training instead he went back and works the graveyard shift at the Buffalo Zoo as a security guard that's the sad shift he's just sitting there he's been like none of these parrots like bad company I'm sitting here with my broom and it's like am I the Jewish cabal of this zoo should I just free all of these parrots and and and giraffes oh none of them will

listen to reason at least they can't enter breed so that's good that's nice you know that is gotta be the saddest zoo yeah the Buffalo Zoo yeah that's where they get the chickens for the chicken wings that's how they cull the herd well the terrible tragedy of this whole thing and this is serious here this is the terrible tragedy is that when McVay returned to Pendleton he actually reached out for psychiatric help to deal with his PTSD but he was too ashamed to give his name to the local VA because he thought it would hurt his chances at like jobs and like future jobs that some of that his employers

would check up on him and would see that he had gotten psychiatric help in the past and that's sad as fuck I mean it had McVay actually gotten help had he'd not been too ashamed to give his name or had the VA allowed him to get help anonymously then it is possible that Timothy McVay would never have become what he eventually became didn't seem like he was really going for jobs that would care if he had mild PTSD he's working the night shift at a zoo no I really think that's how we should our veterans though it's really it's it's fucked up how that happens yeah yeah McVay he made a sincere attempt but

because he was ashamed he he did not seek help and it led to Oklahoma City and as we always say in the show if you want to seek help seek help because there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever it's 100% normal and the world will thank you for it yes absolutely we're all sick everyone is everyone of us is not shameful to be sick yeah you're among set you're among sick people here at last podcast I'm not sick I forgot been that you are 100% mentally stable there it is crushed in Marcus I just handed Marcus 20 bucks so instead of getting help McVay started writing letters to the editor I do love this letters letters

to the editor is my favorite practice for people who just have to scream about the government or whatever well one letter to the editor published in a local newspaper on February 11th 1992 read in part America is in serious decline we have no proverbial tea to dump should we instead sink a ship filled with Japanese imports is a civil war imminent do we have to shed blood to reform the current system can we get another spin-off to cheers I hope it doesn't come to that but it might and the funny thing is those super intense letters to the editor there's the one right next to it's like the pothole on

34 Street is not been filled I've been the lack of respect in all Congress County gets is something I am just beside myself we need a stop sign at 6 that maple federal government must be taken honestly Jewish cabal won't put a water fountain in at the Williams see it actually McVay he was starting to get deeper into the wackier side of conspiracy thought one conspiracy that he 100% believed and subscribed to said that the government was building huge crematoriums along with 130 concentration camps around the country to round up and exterminate citizens with anti-government views and this was in

1991 the government you may know this conspiracy theory by its modern name FEMA death camps the government cannot make a bridge the government can't function the government did not does not have the ability to do any of these things like conspiracy theorists think they can number one show me proof that they're not okay they're not because there's no proof there's no proof we prove a negative tell me show me prove show me prove that they're not doing it then I'll sit then I'll say okay sure maybe they're not the only way to prove that is to give you a picture of every square inch of the entire fucking

country you idiot show me proof I'm looking at the street views and they block some of it off because they say it's secret and classified but they'll also you know I think that the black ops government could really do it but what's interesting about the black ops part of the government is that that's not federal that's private so yes private people are doing a lot of different shit all those kind of contractors they're doing a lot of fucked up shit and are very capable but they're doing stuff that we don't know about they're not setting up concentration camps you fucking moron I

will say that no they are not sitting up concentration kids but that the sad thing about that conspiracy theory in reality the prison industrial complex there are black sites in Chicago yeah we know that for a fact we know that the prison industrial complex is holding people and it is indentured is the new slavery so that's the real stuff that I will put it this way this is a this is a part of the how the government can get away with this shit is that you outsource it you outsource the crooked shit into your black budget stuff and so they get does it's all private it's all privatized so you don't have to have

government oversight but that's crooked shit you know those are people they are looking to make money these there are no crematoriums and you know but I know like this is crooked shit this is them making money this is them making a couple extra bucks for their shareholders all these fucking black sites that's what that is it is not the NWO coming to take over the fucking country I'll tell you what you know who the fucking NWO is gonna look like two broke girls look at that's where the NWO is because the amount of people that watch big bang theory I think that there are some sort of hypnotic branding

that is happening inside of Bazinga if someone can look at the word Bazinga and see if there's any sort of like ancient like Sumerian connection to that word see what they're doing I won't even say that word I am yeah I still I can only think about pro wrestling when I hear NWO but I know be it me too but the point is that like these conspiracy theories about like FEMA death camps and concentration camps and mass crematoriums this shit has existed for decades oh totally it just takes different forms and belief in these ridiculous theories and the spreading of these ridiculous theories it only

breeds paranoia and sometimes paranoia can turn deadly like it did with Timothy McVeigh and then Ruby Ridge happened which to McVeigh's conspiracy riddled mine proved that the government was in fact coming to take away not only his guns but every gun in America slowly but surely and the bay was not alone and getting riled up by the deaths of Vicky and Sammy Weaver it rallied survivalists in militia groups all over the country and while I do agree that the FBI straight-up murdered Vicky Weaver they absolutely did it was not the first strike of the NWO come to take us over it was the incompetence of people in

charge of the raid and the incompetence of the sniper who took the shot I believe the sniper that took the shot was new I think it was his first day we're one of his first missions and that's correct it was an accident and the whole thing went wrong and you know what's really sad is that it also killed the ABC pilot snipers first day it's just the blowback from that would be too much for them to air it what about Barb what about our but McVeigh and his friends they didn't see it as incompetence they saw it as the NWO common right McVeigh he was so hardcore that he canceled his membership to the NRA because he thought

they were a quote weak warrior as he put it in the fight to save the Second Amendment they certainly were no wharf I've heard that and he also wouldn't shut up about all this bullshit to his co-workers at the zoo wow now what I don't know if there was any actual human co-workers I think it might be like a little mouse that hang out just yelling at flamingo random alligator and goes get some get some blue on there that's what I say flamingo's white just red and white get some blue on there now my other my other biggest honestly one of my biggest sticking points with the Turner diaries

as well their obsession with the metric system oh like Lincoln Chafee they talk about how the English system of measurement is so faulty like five or six times throughout the entire thing and it's just like I understand I understand that the metric system works on 10s it's an easier system but go fuck yourself I did not realize that they were obsessed with the metric system of course Lincoln Chafee he was the Democrat in 2016 that was his thing and it was also one of Ronald Reagan's ideas yeah he wanted to do the metric system and then everyone just like shut up shut up well at the zoo one co-worker he was

so freaked out by Timothy McVeigh's rants that he started bringing a tape recorder to work just in case McVeigh made specific threats the strange thing is now Timothy McVeigh would just be like Alex Jones he could just be a successful internet radio host yeah we could be thankful that Alex Jones has that job we should be faint thankful that he's allowed to express himself in a constructive way instead of just oh that's a good yeah who knows what well who knows what he's going to inspire but you know what Alex Jones is is a get Alex Jones is those crazy motherfuckers at the gun shows in the early 90s they

now have a voice yeah like that sort of conspiracy that paranoia that same paranoia that sent Timothy McVeigh on the path that he's on right now that same paranoia that Alex Jones and all of his little fucking buddies are stirring up it's the exact same fucking path yeah it's not I would not I'm not gonna put like fucking frog memes on the same level as neo-nazis or anything like that I'm not gonna put Pepe the frog up there Pepe was funny in the beginning Pepe was funny at the beginning to send Pepe memes to each other and we had a good laugh about it and his and his terms of chaos absolutely not but like the whole

Pepe thing and like these fuckers on the internet like it's definitely not the same as like neo-nazis robbing banks in the 80s and 90s of course not but this paranoia and this conspiracy thought and this just like a general distrust of the world around you it leads to dangerous shit it does and we're not saying that people can't talk about it we're not saying people can't believe in it we're just saying be mindful yeah you don't get taken down that same fucking road universe is trying to show us as much as possible that when we separate the human race and we try to separate shit and segregate shit it's bad for us it's it

kills people we have to come everything is trying to say we are all one entity that the universe is conscious the earth is an entity we are the world speech I'm just saying that we are an extension of the consciousness of the universe and everybody wants to deny that because the because they want power because they want influence and these it's it's fucked up it's like we went in on the last abling and stop at or the one previous we went in some more detail with Alex Joe's so check out that episode because it is an interesting phenomenon and we do have to be very mindful yeah not to get to the McVeigh

level it's all a part of it man yeah so 1992 McVeigh's buddy Terry Nicholl showed up in Pendleton New York with a brand new mail order bride and tow see Terry had just returned from the Philippines where he got hitched to a teenager named Marefe tell me tell me I can I say please I don't like the song by company oh my god please tell I love dairy I like being how I live I love Buffalo I love the hot the hot sauce remind me of the Philippines but please no more no more white rabbit ID does not even know the name of the band Terry I love you man but you gotta get rid of her she doesn't like bad company well McVeigh

he admired the whole mail order move as he felt American women were quote prudish and stingy I can't believe they weren't charmed by his brush cut in overall demeanor well his whole tactic he was one of those guys that like he talk he go up to a woman say like hey so we could spend like three hours like talking and waste a bunch of money on drinks oh we could just cut to the chase and go back to my place right now so let me just get this straight you're just broke right now yes I mean we can go right now even in Buffalo I want to have sex with you and there's like no other men here I won't even have sex

with you and it's Buffalo that didn't work of course not it absolutely from the Turner Diaries what I love is this so the in the middle of the Turner Diaries it has a sexual relationship between two members of between Earl Turner and one of the female members of the of the the order his like branch his unit of the order and this is a little excerpt from that so you can experience what it's like to be speaking being spoke to by one of these men the shower is a makeshift cold water only arrangement which Henry and I installed in a large closet last week very sad the guy there's a man named Henry we did the plumbing and put

in a light and Catherine covered the walls and floor with the self-adhesive vinyl for waterproofing the closet opens off the room which George Henry and I used for sleeping of the other two rooms over the shop Catherine uses the smaller one for a bedroom and the other is a common room which also serves as a kitchen and eating area I undressed got a towel and opened the door to the shower and there was Catherine wet naked and lovely standing under the bare light bulb and drying herself she looked at me without surprise and said nothing I stood there for a moment and then instead of apologizing and closing the

door again I impulsively held up my arms to Catherine hesitantly she stepped toward me nature took her course we lay in bed for a long while afterwards and talked it was the first time I've really talked to Catherine alone she's a affectionate sensitive and very feminine girl beneath the cool professorial exterior she was always maintained in her work for the organization Catherine had always been a political if anyone had asked her during the time she was working for the government or before that when she was a college student she would probably would have said she was a quote-unquote liberal but she was

liberal only in the mindless automatic way that most people are without really thinking about it or trying to analyze it she superficially accepted the unnatural ideology peddled by the mass media and the government she had none of the bigotry none of the guilt and self-hatred that it takes to make a really committed full-time liberal after the police released them George gave her some books on race and history and some organization publications are in for the first time in her life she began thinking seriously about the important racial social and political issues at the root of this day's problems she learned

the truth about the system's equality hoax she gained an understanding of the unique historical role of the Jews as the ferment of decomposition of races and civilizations most important she began acquiring a sense of racial identity overcoming a lifetime of brainwashing aimed at reducing her to an isolated human atom and a cosmopolitan chaos oh my that sounds like a penthouse forum written by Ten Nugents number one fan like that is that was supposed to be erotic and then somehow they still got racial politics into it good lord so pretty soon after Terry Nichols and Marifay ended their visit McVay got into

gambling unfortunately McVay was the type of guy to bet on his favorite team which you should never do never do it you never you never bet on your team uh-uh double unfortunately McVay being from upstate New York was a Buffalo Bills fan loser I mean they didn't win a lot. Triple unfortunately McVay was a Buffalo Bills fan in the early 90s for those of you who don't know the Buffalo Bills went to four consecutive Super Bowls from 1990 to 1993 and lost you just feel it four times you get the feeling Timothy McVay but the like the last Super Bowl they lost you like it was mathematically in the Super Bowl

that McVay lost a thousand dollars on was the biggest loss of all Super Bowl 27 when the Dallas Cowboys destroyed the Buffalo Bills 52 to 17 god I love that game anybody's game it was anybody's game until the very end I think they lost to the Giants and the Redskins also they lost to the Cowboys twice yeah I think it was the Giants the Redskins of the Cowboys twice oh Buffalo and this is what he coincidentally the coin toss for Super Bowl 27 uh-huh OJ Simpson really OJ Simpson did the coin toss for Super Bowl 27 and it was Timothy McVay hey hey referee I got a funny joke it's gonna foreshadow in the future I

bet you um it's gonna be heads like two heads funny OJ OJ funny and you think of Timothy McVay and OJ somewhere like OJ sat in his hotel room like late at night after the game and Timothy Vades out there just like having a smoke out behind his shack wherever the fuck he lives he's done fuck life and just we're like it's like he's got like his because you know he thought OJ was one of the good ones oh I'm sure yeah well he was of course the one of the world's probably other than Jim Kelly the most famous Buffalo Bill and possibly even more

famous than Kelly himself easily yeah so after the Super Bowl loss McVay decided it was time to leave New York State behind he said taxes are too high oh that was his issue and you know what they are they are too high taxes are pretty damn high here in New York's and especially here in New York City the crazy thing is if you just had a passing conversation with Timothy McVay would be like yeah he mentioned the tax the taxes and like second amendment like okay Tim not not bad and then that if you end it there it's okay yeah yeah just Timothy Vays just one of those guys you don't ask follow up no no never very

similar to Leonard Lake yeah yeah so Timothy Vay headed out west where he would meet his ultimate fate and the people who possibly helped him get there which we will cover on episode three all right well that was a little insight into the life of Timothy McVay my goodness what a colossal loser at least you know you think after all this you could we could all change his nickname to regret the spaghetti regretty spaghetti regretty spaghetti McVay thanks so much for listening everyone let's see what do we got to talk about here Marcus we got the patreon thanks so much for everyone who's donated that's why

we can do everything that we're doing we got a bunch of fun live shows coming up we can't wait to see everyone at the at those absolutely and if you give to our patreon then you get presale tickets to all of our upcoming shows and in fact we just announced a whole new set of live shows we're gonna be coming to Nashville we're coming to Omaha we're coming to North Carolina we're coming to a ton of different cities so just go to a cave comedy radio dot com slash live to find out if we're coming to a city near you and of course we're tickets are on sale there for our upcoming Milwaukee show in July as well and of course someone's

got to we're coming to Montreal please we need to sell tickets to these just for laughs so we can show these corporate overlords that we can rip open the house so you're in Montreal you want to see some beautiful half French people come and watch us for the just for laughs comedy festival yeah that would be a huge help for us please come on out to Montreal we'll have a great time as always and I can't wait to see everybody honestly and you're gonna see us very unique set there where we get to talk to the pedophile run Hollywood elites that are there a face-to-face yeah we get to speak to them and ask

questions and interrogate them about where we're about stirring Elijah Woods childhood interesting well you know it's there's no way it could go wrong no way thanks for supporting all the shows here on CC are able to stop after everything political thanks so much for listening to that roundtable of gentlemen page seven sex on the human activities movie signs with the Mads wizard and the bruiser all the great shows here on CC are thanks so much for listening follow us on Twitter I'm at Henry loves you at Marcus Parks had been kissle follow us on Instagram at dr. fantasy at Marcus parks had been kissled the number one

and then follow us on LP on left and all the stuff that is slowly but surely hypnotizing us into the grave at LP on the left that's right I want to thank everyone who I saw the great gay pride parade festival in New York City it was awesome to run into fans just randomly on the street I was doing some flying for the BK for BK campaign so thank you guys so much for just being incredible and every time we get to see you in real life it's just like it's always a joyous wonderful occasion because only people that know us only people that like us know us exactly I also at the gate it's so nice to look at footage of the gay

pride parade while I'm reading all this white pride material because it's nice to have like eyeball bleach as I watch really okay good they're still so at least these people are normal yeah and now these fucking white pride bullshit but oh absolutely gay pride is I love gay pride it's a great holiday normal and having fun man that's having fun just enjoying themselves in your fucking to tight mouth like little bitches all you're allowed to have fun that's for sure hey big thing don't even look for the Turner diaries you're gonna be upset like in order to find the PDF for the white the for the for the fucking

Turner diaries you're gonna go through some websites that are gonna really make you mad just the banners are gonna make you mad yeah that's a warning for yourself it doesn't seem quality enough to read so it doesn't hail yourselves everyone hail Satan Helgi and me and a maghustalations why not most relations maghustalations celebrate yourself celebrate yourself all right we got some shout outs yeah yeah we fucking do now you can hear your names thank you for your money yeah thank you for supporting the show everybody we really appreciate it from the bottom of our hearts absolutely and remember like we've got a lot of shout outs to get to so if

you don't hear your name this week just keep listening and eventually we'll get to it we'll get to it I promise you at some point you'll never hear it unless you listen I do have to listen to the very end of the episode you can't skip you gotta hit a very end every single minute or you know just skip right to the end yes that's right and I promise you I will butcher your names at some point do not worry about it yeah okay so here we go let's start off with Kelly Kitchell thank you so much Kelly Kitchell Jen Haynes Alex Cribb Catherine draws dick draws was a great professional wrestler broke his neck really yeah

remember he's in a wheelchair he used to be able to vomit on command yeah and I believe it's awesome anybody can vomit on command that's not a skill that's called leukemia no no well no he didn't have to eat you know he didn't have to eat you know he literally could just vomit yeah I see anybody could just vomit no Henry you're not understanding is about vomit right now vomit watch me do it no no you can't use the finger you can't use the finger you have to just go make me anyway so Ross great professional wrestler I hope he's doing okay and maybe he's a listener Daniel Annette's Lea set again or set a gin

Kate Osley or Osley Sands Dixon Jamie Silva Zach Whelan Ariel Sargent the fatherhood 2.0 podcast I think that's about fatherhood that is great Haley Brown sound about the fatherland really going to get into trouble for that shout out Haley Brown Christopher Windsor Emily Rowan Oliver Hig Jesse Bennett a bald and angry no reason to be angry women love someone who's bald Joel and Harding Austin Averick who that's cool a Austin Averick Tabatha Keegan Tabitha not Tabatha Tabatha Keegan Katie and say Matt Dylan we love you in wild things I like I don't know if Matt Dylan was my favorite part about wild things I just only remember breasts yeah that pool scene

I really burned through VHS tape was he in cry he wasn't in cry baby what was the one that he was in mmm I'm not sure that was it yeah Matt Dylan because that was Johnny Depp and cry baby right yeah yeah Caitlin best Jordan Prince Joe Zupke Kim Morrison Tucker Rouch Jemima oh here we go gonna mess this one up Jemima Chokinette Pizer that C H O Q U E N O T P I Z E R is it chokinette maybe Chokin oh Chokin oh no I don't know either way I'm not doing it right I know you're doing I understand that I'm not doing that right Jemima Chokinette Pizer and Sid Williams thank you so much I got Chris McCann Ben Vossler Aaron Webb

Angus Beaton Matthew Blesby Giovanni Calamano sounds like out of what was the name of that television show I love so much the Sopranos no no what else my so-called life Joey Catalano very different name I don't know it's Scarlett Carson Lindsay Daniels Dana Ducabon Austin Taylor I think it's cut off here might be Cutty beige or maybe smutty beige money I'm not sure Jason Zygmont Kim Shay Alexander Kim Odana Cheney Andrius Armstrong Sarah Johnson Meredith Richardson Lauren Milici Shayna Nicole Reigns Nick Snow David Taub Mia Houston or maybe Huston Patrick

Swayzee really it's a it's it's pretty it's spelled different though it's W.S.A.S. EY I wish they would remake Roadhouse yeah that'd be fun yeah yeah no it wouldn't don't wish for that because it'll be bad yeah I got Pony Boy Kaua Kla Amber Robbins Gwendolyn Wind Joshua Cornaglia okay and now Henry John Perry Tracy Vatsanaga Maggie Murski Melissa Cole Shular Brandon Peterson Brendan Weimer John Campbell Jr. Scalam SS C A L E M Escalim Scream Jessica Todd Kyra Carragas Jordan Alexander Lee Bryant Faith Trowell Alexa Harper Taryn Feldman Melissa Flint Aaron Millis Jeremy Fultz Andrew B Smith Alissa Guinness

sharing needles with friends label and podcasts oh yeah sure it was with friends they're a music podcast I still need to that they asked me to be a guest and I have not gotten back to them about it yet but sharing needles with friends I'm going to be a guest on at some point I hope Wow interesting Mark S. Whitkin Rafael Figaroa James Quirk Megan McKee Tyler Dean Quillen Stephanie Moe Katie Niann Krista Mallory O'Neill was a Mallory O'Neill Rob Brown Corey Austin Melissa Bratcher Tabitha Hunt I think I know Tabitha hi Jessica Thornton Shannon Mormon and then horse draper Jessica Kramer Adam Lauderback Corey

Schauff Mary Jones Brian Murg Bernie Ike Mike Suzuki Aaron Smith Nat Grisak Juna Rachel Monninger Colin Murray Alissa Repsic Aaron Sweeney Logan McNevin Jared Miller Ashley Pfeiffer Christine Zupa that's it for me now all right I got Macy Dunce or Denise or done ice either way it's Macy Denice Sophia Baker Blake Johnson Pascal DeBros Elizabeth Mowgli Monica Sanchez Josh Morrison Morgan Whaley Krista Sigorski Nick Garbato Megan Aguilar or Aguilar Aguilar Aguilar Aguilar I knew some Aguilar's in high school okay Christina Aguilar Aguilar oh I like her Megan Aguilar Stacy Anthony Alex

Getten Z Davis Drew Price Kyle Malley Alex Tridini Sarah Benham Stephanie Maz Christian Edstrom Kara Toledo Nicole D. Hale Francesca Valdez Ashley Kay Francesca Valdez Francesca Francesca Valdez what did I say Francesca Francesca like a Francesca Francesca Francesca Valdez yes all right Francesca that's a fun one Ashley Kay Paul Kekejean Kekejean Kekejean Kekejean Paul Kekejean Hannah Whelan Sergio Devin Garrett Matt Sessions and Jordan Bremmer thank you all so much we really appreciate it hail yourselves I got Sarah Saturday Angela Jones Greg Allison Dallas Moriarty cool the sticky

sounds zine sticky sounds it sounds like bad company Alex Reinhart Eli Sims Cody Carpenter Connor Dozawa or dozius one of the two Nick Bell Kelly Huckle Hucklebee Tiffany Allen Morgan Fannin Eric Darnell Chris Hornung I just want to believe podcast okay sure Derek Hasha Ali Jacobs Megan Nisbet Scroats Mahon ever we done Scroats Mahon before I don't know I like Scroats Mahon we'll do it again thank you Scroats Mahon sounds like I got a character from Police Academy I'm sure he had a great time getting a job Danielle Kealy Jenna Rocket Ruin Sama and Jensen Mitch Tompkins Cheryl Fitzgerald Greg Jorgensen James Id Sarah Court and

Daniel Spink Katie Hassenback Diane Curtis Dustin Beaver Kelly Nurgur Michael Petrallia Kyle Mannion Lindsey Nash Cheryl Ainsley Chrissy Riker Sarah Muglia Hannah Hausner Brandon Merritt Samantha Willimowski Sarah Fanjoy Caroline Bleak Michael Arnott Emily Denison Hilly Hillbilly nerd 99 Catherine Stabil who's an Atlanta girl hey what's up hello eradicate Clare Yads Megan Lynn Jennifer Takama Liz Jonathan Roan Sean Ritter Madison Daly James Doyle Josh Barnes Zach Gerard Sarah Berlinger Alex Barapa I know the next barata would get we went to this restaurant and it's a

bit like a charred like peaches with barata on there and you get some like it was a bunch of olives in it so you got that tang and you get a vinaigrette on it so it's mmm okay I don't know what a barata is it's a soft baby cheese happy you ended that sentence with cheese I want to put your videos of baby octopus the only thing I could think about was eating them so it's that's David Phillips Sarah Thompson Jay Powell Michael McNally Jason Degenstein Kara Halen Andrea Brady Jack Latin Carlisle Caster Jack Lee Stacy Schugel Nandita Kamoth Sara Ausch Sky Sebastian ho Teresa Holter Demiel Herringer what's

going girl Brian Hampton Domino Phillips Leah Apple vaccine Space Monkey James Franklin Pace Elodie Westover and Sarah Sturm all right thank you all so very much for making this entire show possible yes thank you very much everybody we appreciate each and every one of you thank you very much can't wait to see you with the life show thanks for giving your money it's not for you can't refuse to earn money are you Italian or the woman that Timothy McVay lost his virginity can't help hail yourselves everyone else ain't again my goes to Lations me help me