Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 277: Oklahoma City Part IV - The Big Rub

Episode Date: July 14, 2017

On the conclusion to our series on Oklahoma City, we cover the final ramp-up to the bombing, the mystery of John Doe #2, and the 24 witnesses who saw someone with Timothy McVeigh on the morning of April 19th, 1995. Artifact Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Digya Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Dubakupado Kevin

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started Okay guys listen, huh? We'll be talking a lot of smack But I think what's important before we start today's episode We each name one thing that we love and and cherish about white culture Oh, no choose something. What do you love? What do you celebrate with what celebrates white people? I? celebrate collages the Fidget spinners. I don't know what the hell what I have no idea comic-cons

That's finally some positivity besides just never being arrested for crime and always being president All right, this is the last podcast of the left. I bet guess that's Marcus Parks And I don't think I introduced us last time as a matter of fact. I bet you didn't I don't think you did Oh, no, we're sitting here. We're in my Los Angeles apartment. Yeah, it's hot my feet are up I can smell my own balls and I'm wearing like gym shorts because it's too hot in here. I'm three inches away from you It's a really great experience. All right. Well, let's get on here We got Oklahoma City part for a lot more to get to in the Timothy McVeigh saga so in September of 1994 President Bill Clinton approved the 10-year assault rifle ban and with that the gathering of the

Explosives and components needed for the April 19th bombing truly began now in conspiratorial thought Let's take a little break from rationality for a second. I mean honestly guys We're always so rational and logical. Uh-huh. That's that's exactly how I describe you now Would that maybe be the conspiratorial arm of being like basically they make a gun ban And that's what allows them to send in covert agents into the different white nationalist groups in order to spur Revolutionary attitude basically they create the legislature and then create the backbone of sending in sheep No, do you have any idea what it takes to pass a fucking bill? No, I never was a cool house rock Yeah, there's a cartoon that explains it. This whole thing is ridiculous though

It got so totally blown out of proportion. The Brady bill was kind of wrapped up into this They weren't going after weapons that were already sold as assault rifles They weren't going to people's homes and taking them They were just putting a halt on the sale of assault rifles. It's like, you know what? We got enough assault rifle so many of you guys can sell assault rifles to each other. That's totally cool You can do that whenever and wherever you want We're just not gonna make any more of them if I was president. I would also put a 10-year ban on pornography. We're good We have enough. What's wrong with you? We have so much. What are you talking about this town, Los Angeles?

I'm sorry California. It's off the I saw gang bang video this morning that I'd never seen before and it made me have congrats Well, this is this is that was an immediate democracy. Thank you for the town hall I have now changed my position now There is a very interesting connection to Elohim City concerning September of 1994 the same month that the assault rifle ban was signed the only two recorded instances of McVeigh being near Elohim City was a ticket in the fall of 1993 not too long after McVeigh met Strasmeyer and a night McVeigh spent in a motel just over the Arkansas State Line near Elohim City on September 12th 1994 the day before the assault rifle ban was signed into law Can you imagine being the poor woman that were a man that works at that hotel?

It has to clean up the room after Timothy McVeigh every single time just having to deal with all the different hair clippings from keeping his brush Cut tight. I feel like they actually go and like untuck the sheets a little bit They're like this man must be a sociopath. I think you're so tough. I think he's the kind of guy that eats the soap thinking Food So in October of 1994 McVeigh took over a storage locker in Harrington, Kansas Which Terry Nichols had planned to use to store furniture and McVeigh started loading it up with all the material needed for the bomb now Tim I definitely you know I give you an inch and you took a mile and when it comes down to it. Where am I going to put these duvets?

I have piles and piles of duvets. I have I have a levée chair I forgot what that's called the liaison where you lay down it so you look impressive Impressively bored. I have one of those chairs a chaise lounge. I like that You know, what if we fill it with a momy ammonia nitrate instead? Whatever you want. I guess you're my boss now I would love to see that this storage locker opened on storage wars. What do we got there? Oh all the makings of a bomb Close up the storage We close up the shed So the nuts and bolts materials McVeigh and Terry acquired from a quarry robbery

The fuel came from racing tracks and hobby stores who both sold nitro methane for different reasons Oh, not not to make homemade bombs interesting No racing tracks sold it for nitro and hobby stores sold it for model airplanes Make it all make it model airplanes. They say there is a hidden demographic of sniffers and hoffers They're all in the model airplane business So the ammonium nitrate was purchased in eight different locations with McVeigh and Nichols stopping off at every feed store They could find to eventually amass 4,000 pounds of the stuff and after the two had spent a couple months gathering up all this material

Nichols started getting a little suspicious about the whole stockpiling explosives things as he said he thought at this point That the whole thing was just kind of a lark because honestly it started with his obsession with pop rocks and I thought at the point It's like I don't know my friend. It hurts my gums. I don't like it But he loved it and started with pop rocks and then immediately he killed a dog With a hand grenade What do you think Terry Nichols is just trying to wash his hands of all this, right? Had to know something was going on. Yeah, he knew something was going on But Nichols was was two things. He was a coward, of course

Yes, and he was also very good at denial. Well, they're also very private Yes, all of these guys are very much so that weird sovereign citizen thing of like, you know, like don't don't don't remember anything about me Right almost now when Nichols confronted McVeigh, Tim came clean about the plan and when Nichols said he wouldn't have any part of it Nichols said that McVeigh pulled his jacket back and showed him the 45 and shoulder holster Nichols said McVeigh told him that if he didn't go through with it McVeigh would kill his son his brother and his mother this Nichols said was his main motivation for helping Tim all the way to the end I don't know about that. We say is that a threat or a promise I want you to kill somebody that doesn't make me sad all the time That's what I'm thinking. Just flip it and be like here are their home addresses. Perfect. Thank you

In order to pay for the whole bombing operation McVeigh said Nichols was gonna have to procure the money by robbing McVeigh's old friend from the gun circuit Roger Moore whom McVeigh referred to as Bob from Arkansas Because Bob Miller was the name That Roger Moore would use at gun shows because a lot of times these gun show guys. They didn't use their real names there They didn't trust each other It's like a Robert De Niro if you know him in a movie and you have to like do some kind of talk about him I like on the side for like BTS or kind of interview you call him Bobby. Yeah, so they're gonna rob their friend

They're gonna rob their friend now the motivations here are actually a little unclear McVeigh said that he learned Roger's security system while he was there visiting and that Roger Deserved it because he was a plastic patriot who would turn his stockpile over to the FBI without a fight now It is very possible that Roger knew the whole thing was coming and that the robbery was set up in order to conceal where The funding was coming from for the bombing a kind of like Backwood's money laundering type operation kind of like him putting Basically getting a hotel room next to Elohim City So he can go stay there without there being any sort of trail leading him over there because you can say oh look here I was actually staying at a hotel. I do love it when you know when you know the person robbing you

We're just like Terry. What are you doing with the gun down? But now was this a part of Operation Clean Sweep? No, he just gave up his guns No, he didn't give up his guns McVeigh said that if Roger Moore had his property raided then Roger Moore Would just give up his guns without a fight, but he said he was a plastic. They speculated that yeah, they Opposed yeah, he was exactly he was a poser because McVeigh thought that if you had a bunch of guns And the government stormed your property then you needed to fight to the death come into a guy Yeah, that's the idea. That's that's a real patriot does they stupidly die Well, the reason why some people think that Roger Moore was forewarned about it and was even in on this robbery

It was because for months afterwards McVeigh and Moore exchanged a series of bizarre cryptic letters Even though it was obvious that McVeigh was behind the whole thing and Moore made sure to say that Timothy McVeigh was behind the robbery Loudly, my best friend Timothy McVeigh gave all the way to us just to steal my gold Because you know he kept his money on and gold Oh, of course No, he did but he stole a bunch of gold a bunch of silver and a lot of precious jewels The end of the goonies these kids think that like just emeralds and rubies are good like it'd be not be just it's difficult to fence These so that Snickers bar will be a dollar twenty-five. I only have pirates money

It's a it's a marble In one of those cryptic letters Moore wrote to McVeigh nine days before the bombing Moore wrote Plans to bring the country down and have a few more things happen The important thing is to make it as effective as possible And Moore signed the letter Bob and wrote burn in uppercase letters next to his signature and when the FBI questioned more He said that he was just trying to lure McVeigh to his ranch So McVeigh could be arrested for the robbery because that's how it always works a bunch of heroes burn Wow bring your raccoon net

It's a w that your starts with it. What yeah, it's a it's a why? President you cannot spell word it has been a long week Stuck in traffic and the LA Sun does take your brain cells out absolutely does Honestly Tim when you do come into town bring your raccoon net because it is it might my whole fucking compound is infested And I'm not doing cute racist raccoon. I mean real dog-shaped guy raccoon It's like buffalo in here and as for the effective as possible line more said he just couldn't remember what he meant by that Like yeah, so the FBI came asked so like so what did you mean by this line? It must be as effective as possible. He's like, you know, I just don't remember huh honestly

I was talking about my noxibilt isn't that wild and his shitty of an answer is that was the FBI? I totally believed him and set him free without any follow-up now It could be that more who had much more experience with explosives than either McVeigh or Nichols had more to do with the plot that anyone is letting on Except Terry Nichols Nichols told investigators fairly recently that a pack of the explosive component Kinetics could be found on his property with Bob Moore's fingerprints on him The FBI did find the kinetics, but they didn't test them for fingerprints for another three years And after those three years the prints were deemed unreadable

Moore also claimed to be a protected government witness at one point But on the other hand a lot of these guys claim to be protected government witness because it's a fun idea Yeah, sure. Yeah, Strasmeyer said that same thing But we do that is how the FBI gets these people they flip them and enforce them to rat on other Well, maybe it's possible. Honestly, they probably were fishing. We're probably asking them see what he knew See if he'd be willing to flip and he'd be like, no, no, no, but it's secretly Yeah, well, it's actually oddly plausible to think that these different government agencies who weren't talking to each other at all Had so many protected government witnesses out there that these guys were just yes ending each other and to carry in the shit out

In fact one ATF agent told a story about how the ATF and the FBI were supposed to get together to share information about Elohim Elohim city and according to the agent the two agencies met in a conference room had small talk and left without mentioning Elohim city once all because each agency didn't trust the other one And if there was a big bus to be had at Elohim city that specific agency wanted the credit for it Thank you so much for having us over FBI. I couldn't help but notice in this conference room. You have so many squeaky chairs Nice to see you CIA man. These chairs are squeaky It would be a shame if someone came in here and

oiled Some of these squeaky chairs use chairs could use some oil because the squeak and I'm hearing It's damn near unacceptable Man, this is a heck of a meeting, right? It's got a fun kind of fun. Can you feel it? We were like it's like tension. Are you playing Genesis? Yes. Yes, I got it from when I was a child. It's my game here No, this sort of interdepartmental rivalry was the exact same behavior that led to 9-11 just six years later when the CIA and the FBI Weren't talking to each other. Nothing was learned from Oklahoma City by these people and thousands of people died because of it

Do you ever think of the paperwork though Marcus? Yeah, honestly, how much paperwork? I think so much. They avoided they save the trees I loved that the CIA and the FBI were like that comic strip the lock horns just never getting along It's really funny in the strip, but then in reality, it leads to domestic terrorism Now after the robbery was done Nichols decided the heat was getting a little too high So he fucked off to the Philippines with Marifae for a couple of months Even though Nichols was terrified that Marifae's ex-boyfriend Jojo Angelito, Florida was gonna come call it Do you see how many baskets of a right Popeye as I have? I would have loved to see that fight

Now when McVeigh realized that Nichols had left the country he turned to Michael 48 to help him out Michael might make it Michael Yeah, how do we never see each other? No, no, no, not Jojo Angelito, Florida Timothy McVeigh turned to Michael 48 Jesus Christ. Jojo is my favorite name ever on this podcast by the way. Jojo Angelito, Florida Yeah, it's just a lot of fun Then McVeigh once he hooked back up with Michael 48 He laid out the entire bombing play for the 48 family even going so far as to show 48's wife how he planned to position the barrels in the truck using 15 cans of soup as a visual aid Now tell me tell me now are these cans gonna actually be filled with soup?

No, no, a momy a monion a momy and a momy and nitrate, so you can't even say the name How am I supposed to trust you gonna take this building down? I'm thinking we'll just use soup and we slowly kill them with sodium The world's biggest soup um So in December of 1994 McVeigh and 48 went to the Alfred P. Murab building to case the joint McVeigh despite his many protests to the opposite was seen inside the Murab building that day And not only that McVeigh Actually talked to one of the women who worked at the daycare specifically about the daycare center What is they make they said that he had two young kids and was planning to move into the area

He asked no questions about the daycare operations themselves and was only interested in the layout where the entrances were where the exits were And he was very interested in the plate glass windows next to the infant's nap area If someone that looks like Timothy McVeigh says they have two young kids go find them and return them to their parents Now according to the woman he talked to McVeigh kept repeating There's just so much glass over and over and over again Can I just ask you can I can I just see an infant because I just want to feel How soft it is creepy question Tim is it yes Well, I I mean I obviously have two kids in my own so I know how soft they are what are the names and what's the name of your children

Ram jam and daycare But as this woman was talking to Timothy McVeigh her fiance showed up So McVeigh hid behind a corner and ran away through the back door There's also a witness that puts straw smire there with him that day on that day that straw smire was around and again The way you can tell that that fucking straw smire was there was that they said there was a buck tooth man with a german accent And it's very difficult to miss. I feel like if you were a fucking You're an agent you're trying to hide it from trying to hide your identity for people you wear a bandana

Or you change your teeth or you at least pretend to have another accent. I do it all the time It just it it just seems like a stupid quintin tarantino movie So we had the german was there. It's definitely closer to bottle rocket than pulp fiction. Yes, that's true So the german was there 48 was there and McVeigh all three of them Yeah, okay, I mean we I mean we don't know for sure if straw smire was there But we definitely know McVeigh and 48 were there Now the only reason why this daycare center encounter wasn't introduced into trial Was because that witness confused that incident with another incident with a weirdo that happened in march when the FBI knew

McVeigh was in arizona But this visit coincided completely with michael 48's testimony that they were in oklahoma city in december of 1994 and this woman gave this statement prior to that being public knowledge 1994 is also when a couple of characters named denis mayhon and carol howe Walk onto the elohim city oklahoma city stage finally this is their star moment It just gets dumber now andrius straw smire was friends with the white supremacist named denis mayhon Who is considered to be so dangerous by the uk and canada that they barred him from entering their countries on the grounds That he was an international terrorist, but honestly, he just did not like the toronto raptor

I don't think they were around yet And mayhon is a former imperial dragon of the kkk and is also the leader of the white arian resistance aka war In tulsa, which is around still yeah, definitely still around He is also on camera saying that one day there will be a 100 foot tall statue of timmy themic veigh Celebrated patriot. Wow a 100 foot statue. Wow Wow Now john malar son of robert malar and the current patriarch of elohim city considers denis mayhon to be a friend Good now, let's hear a little from john malar about his thoughts on people like denis mayhon and their beliefs

I would say I don't realize why being a racialist Makes you a hater You have people today that'll raise quarter horses and they're very peculiar with each quarter horse and how they You know breed them in order to get a shell horse or with You know bulldogs or pomo anions or any other animal like that so in order to Uh, you know save the integrity of each species. It's important that they stay within their own group And that's the way we film what we fill the scripture teachers like that Yeah, the scripture of loony tunes the book of elmer fun

I don't want to malign people with with interesting voices, but you can't absolutely malign his fucking ass He's got a shitty voice. He's got sounds like an idiot. I've never heard the term racialist before No, you never heard the term wasoist. Oh wasoist What an idiot now malar went on to say this an article about elaheem city about Denis mayhon No, I don't know what he's done in his life. He's seemed like a decent man to me I agree with some of his thoughts not all of them not by all chart But I do agree with some of his thoughts. He sounds like someone who is just constantly getting his gums numbed by a dentist

Oh Mr. Malar, what thoughts do you agree on? Oh, I don't we all like a milkshake And we all agree that the ways is to be separated and ice cream should be separated I hate the mix of ice cream when you put the torque with in the vanilla together. It's just a shame. I hate to swoo sort of the best uh Combos there is The mahan's girlfriend was a woman named carol how those two met when how called mahan's Dial-a-racist hotline after she had what sounded like a minor confrontation with some black dudes at a party dial-a-racist dial-a-racist

Yeah, it was the number I'm not even gonna say No, it was a it was a phone number that people could call to uh report Incidents with races other than white people bad Okay, yeah So carol howe was a tulsa debutant whose brand of rebellion was joining a white supremacist group and getting a big black swastika Tattooed on her back She started dating mahan, but when she tried to leave he raped her she filed charges

Which is when the fbi looking for an informant to infiltrate right-wing extremist groups recruited her It's a best way to get a fucking someone an informant ex-girlfriends. Yeah, oh sure Now she reconnected with mahan in late 1994 and started reporting back what she was seeing and hearing Now apparently mahan was spending his time detonating homemade hand grenades and was planning to blow up a mexican owned video store But the atf sat on it. Look it right there. It's got a mexican name right on it's a vide-o This video that's no vide-o story Some kind of mexican talk and getting there to damn mexicans dancing with joy celebration drinking beers having being relaxed Celebrating working hard and selling supporting their families. I hate them damn vide-o stories

I want a jacket And when mahan bragged about setting off a 500 pound ammonium nitrate bomb in michigan the atf Still did nothing now ha was just supposed to keep tabs on mahan But when she eventually made her way to elaheem city She found strawsmire's boot camp and was told by the fbi to refocus on straws fire goofy or not Honestly, I saw a video of uh Dennis mahan when he was going through He was doing training at the csa and it showed him firing various guns And then he was so he had a dillinger and he was struggling to put it on

top of his head and covering it with this hat Like he was trying to show that he could have a gun under his hat And he would put it and it was sliding back and forth his hat going and he kept trying to take off the hat and reveal the Derringer at the same time and it looks like fucking Looks like a chris farley movie. Yeah, that's brilliant Yeah in december 1994 the same month that mcvay and 40a went to case the mirror building How filed a report that strawsmire was planning to take action with assassinations mass shootings and bombings That same month robert malar instructed his troops in a fiery sermon to finally take action

How was also told that something was being planned for april But she wasn't far enough into the inner circle to find out what exactly in other words the government had way Way more reason to raid elaheem city than they had to raid waco. Mahan had hand grenades large explosions using Ammonium nitrate and violet rhetoric while strawsmire who was an illegal alien and could have been arrested at any time Was arming and training a combat force and I heard he has guns under his hat You don't know what I got on my shoes guns feet It's feet my feet are gross

Okay, but because the atf and the fbi were still reeling from the bad press of waco They recalled carol howe declaring her an unreliable witness and just hoped that everything was going to work itself out That's what I want out of my government agency's hope But honestly carol howe herself was it was very unreliable. I would say her specifically She was contradictory But a lot of her information was corroborating because she kept going back and forth fucking mahan and not because they got back together The part of when she came back as an informant she was like around the area and hanging out and watching everything still in his vicinity But she he got her back and so when they began began to date again

She went off the radar and then when they broke up again, she came back and started talking to the fbi Yeah, maybe not the most trustworthy person, but she did have A fair amount of information her information about these people was being corroborated by shit They already knew about these people and the atf director at the time john macaw said in 2010 that the only reason Why they didn't go into elaheem city was because the atf hadn't been properly retrained after waco And they weren't ready for a proper full-scale assault and macaw also acknowledged in 2010 That the decision to not go into elaheem city might have caused the atf There one slim chance to prevent oklahoma city

But it must also be said that how never gave information about april 19th 1995 Specifically until the bombing had already happened, but also go these groups Learned from waco as well and they learned how to cover their tracks a little bit more And I think that's a part of it too the guys that are really in charge The day I always believe there's kind of a trickle down of intelligence in these groups where the guys are in charge Like malar, ellison, they are actually very smart as the as the ranks get lower and lower Or people get dumber and dumber in the context of white supremacists Yes, and so what I think that they did is they understand is that what you do is you hire dummies

That don't know what they're doing that you can pawn off lots of patsies you have many patsies everywhere You also have no fucking no proof no written proof no paper trails And so they did that they did that very well It would be very difficult for them to actually pull together the legal case to get the warrant to go into elaheem city And then once they do it, how do you prosecute them if they hide all their fucking weapons? There's an illegal german with guns under his hat Well, you got that guy, but that's the thing you get that guy and then you got that guy and then you flip that guy Oh, he can't be flipped look at his teeth. Yeah, well, I mean that argument right there

We're gonna get into later on in the episode because that is the exact same argument that the government used to not Go after all these guys and it is a shitty fucking argument. Yes, of course So let me ask it. Oh You're ready to get sexy. Oh, I don't know I was in the contest of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City. I woke up this morning. Am I ready to get sexy like now? Sexy I had a dream last night. Rose McGowan was in my dream. I was eating in bagel nude. This is true I woke up Beening ding ding hard. Was it the bagel or rose McGowan that got you aroused. I don't know

I'm ready for the story. Okay, so in february of 1995 Timothy McVeigh was picked up as he was walking across a bridge near a bullhead, Arizona by a man in a Ford Mustang I don't want to think about what is about to happen And McVeigh offered the guy five bucks to give him a ride to Kingman the guy named Richard Rogers Dickie Rogers He said he wouldn't take a dime But he would be interested in a little fucking as he had been at a casino all night. It was feeling quote A little horny with something about you go to that slot machine and you pull that a long pole

And it's got the thick head on the top and then berries Go whipping or whipping whipping past your face This guy without a doubt had the ass gas or grass Bummer sticker with a Kelvin and Hobbes pissing on like a Ford logo or something Funny thing was Rogers said he immediately recognized McVeigh from another roadside encounter He'd had the year before aren't you the centerfold the july centerfold of brush cut monthly? I'm flattered to remember favorite things talking about Waco. Oh my god sucking dick Now the first time Rogers had picked up little Timothy McVeigh

Timothy took his dick out and asked Rogers if he wanted to party which is slang for homosexual sex Thank you Marcus. Thank you. Oh, wow. So that's what all these facebook invites are about interesting Rogers said no the first time But yes the second and the two ended up in Rogers trailer outside Kingman when the trailers are rocking Do come a knocking because I am fighting a snake Now the only thing that makes me think this story is true Is that Rogers said as soon as they got into the trailer McVeigh immediately just started talking about Waco Oh, no, that's a that's a total boner killer. He always does this not for when you're on the far right

It's a boner fucking feeder. I guess so but when they finally got down to business Rogers said McVeigh's throat and tongue action was quote incredible Throat and tongue action Stars on yelp. I would have given him five stars if he had made me yelp again yelp is about yelling I understand they I never want to think about this ever again I didn't think was that the Rogers said that neither one of them Uh reached climax that night because they were just both too tired. I just don't really I don't understand

You would go so far as to pay another weird militant man to have sex with you. Oh, no, this is all this was free He refused payment. He refused payment. He's not a plastic patriot. You don't monetize love Now in the morning Rogers made McVeigh bacon and eggs McVeigh left and then two never had another experience Aside from a couple of awkward run-ins at the grocery store. Oh, hey, sorry. I'm sorry I'm just trying to get around you to over here to the cucumbers. Hey Tim You know my cart kind of a squeaky wheel Yeah, me too. I guess I could really use some lubricant Man a sail on pretzel. Yeah

Yeah, kind of like a bunch of legs. I'll wrap around each other in a trailer deep deep deep in the Ozarks Anyway, anyway readers digest. Yeah, tell me about it Well, not too long after that McVeigh forged a driver's license at the 40a house using the alias Robert Kling So he could rent the rider truck He would eventually use for the bombing in Oklahoma City on April 19th McVeigh chose Kling partly because he knew a soldier named Kling who kind of looked like him, but mostly Because Kling was short for Klingon because if you'll remember McVeigh was a massive fucking nerve What is going on because Klingon's a warrior? Yeah, I understand

Warf Warf was the true warrior Casual homosexual warf This is what we need football players in every community That would just bully Timothy McVeigh No, on April 5th McVeigh called Elohim City for just under two minutes Which we know for a fact because McVeigh used a calling card for all of his long distance calls We actually know quite a bit about the places that McVeigh called in the months leading up to the bombing because he had a calling card

He used one of those cards where you you pay it and then you can use it at various pay phones So that's how they basically ping him everywhere. He goes. We know that he was probably at Elohim City We know the fact that the all of these concepts the idea of bombing a federal building, especially in Oklahoma City Specifically, the more building have been floating around Elohim City and he definitely had contact to Strasmeyer. They probably cased them We're building together Do you think they kissed? I don't know. I don't think Strasmeyer was type. He needs something more gruff I guess and when McVeigh called Elohim City, Malar's daughter-in-law was the one who answered and she told the FBI

McVeigh was looking for Strasmeyer McVeigh told her that he was thinking of visiting soon and Malar's daughter-in-law said that any friend of Andy's was a friend of Elohim City Isn't that nice? Did I mention I'm African-American? Oh, nevermind The reason why this call was significant was because it was made directly after McVeigh had called a rental spot in Havasu City near Kingman inquiring about a rider truck It gets even more interesting when you take into account another call that was made from McVeigh to Elohim City Right after McVeigh secured the rider truck rental in Junction City, Kansas Now it could be that McVeigh was calling Strasmeyer to update him on the progress of their mission if

Strasmeyer was indeed involved or it could be that McVeigh was just looking for a place to hide out after the bombing However, McVeigh did once tell one of his defense lawyers that Elohim City was quote Pretty fucking hardcore and the Ian Strasmeyer work quote brothers and arms literally in each other's arms So a few days after that second call McVeigh was seen at a strip club in Tulsa called Lady Godiva's Which only has three stars on Yelpon. She died by fucking a horse. Really? No Lady Godiva No, Lady Godiva rode a horse naked and you're thinking of the Catherine uh, the great urban legend that she died fucking a horse Marcus is very serious about this. I don't know. I don't know who to believe Believe me

I don't know I heard Lady Godiva had intercourse with the horse. See that then led to her inevitable death. That's what I know Make truth happen. Oh other thing about Lady Godiva's though is that they have a daily lunch special And on Fridays you can get a BLT from just five bucks Wow, and who doesn't want a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich from a strip club Tuesdays in case it is I love Hey, see how I'm making here. I go over here names. God says it's been so nice. So nice to see you I'm just here for the BLT. I'm just here for that. Yeah, I can tell you know why cause your lips kind of look like little strips of bacon And that makes my okay

Look over here first. I don't open up this loaf of bread using just my feet. Okay. I just want the BLT Oh, yeah Now I get this slice of bread then the funny thing about my little body come back for quesadilla too No, no, no, no. You gotta make this sandwich for you. Look, let me show you why they call me the actor per stash girl I take off my big old sailor like penis and you see how long my bajinus BLT is kind of a healthy alternative to a hamburger slap a tentacle On top of that pizza bread Strag you know

This is how I get my squatting. I really and then you got Friday making oh my oh my oh my tentacle my tentacle's getting all burned out Oh my gosh, please It's actually a really good sandwich. Thank you You can take three hands A stripper working that night specifically remember nick bay being there with an annoying bucktooth german Oh, now. I'm sure you're thinking ben Don't address this to me. I'm just saying that you you know, they seem to have a lot of time strippers have short term memories Yeah, yeah, it's odd that a stripper would remember one customer out of the no doubt dozens that they had over the month of April

19 there's six foot seven and red red haired and just out there I don't know they I think they want to forget most of the customers. They say I think so But here's audio from the strippers dressing room captured the night that timothy mcvay was there And I think we should say sex worker. They're not sex workers. They're exotic dancers. Yeah, the strippers. They're not sex workers Yeah, they're not jerking off always If they were jerking dudes off in the back room, then we would say stress okay, but right now they're just exotic dancers Fancy they might be sex workers. They're strippers. I don't know it's lady. Good divas. Oh lady. Good divas It is a Tulsa, Oklahoma

strip club Yeah, that's rough. Yeah over that. You know what else isn't Tulsa, Oklahoma. What bottom the bottoms up club. What happens there? Bottoms up That's where Polish people park their bikes That's what they say when Polish people are dying to die there bored with their asses sticking out of the grid Well here is a clip that if this is the audio from the video surveillance footage that was in the strippers dressing room Shit, what does she say there? She said you're gonna remember me because mcvay sat down mcvay was getting a laugh dance

And he told her am a really smart guy and she and then he went further saying on april 19th 1995 You're gonna remember me for the rest of your life Interesting. Honestly, our strippers are the front lines of american intelligence because you could get so much information out of a man If you're dancing on his hard penis, I guess I would yeah, absolutely Well along with mcvay and stress marve was an olive skinned Dark complexed man who bore a strong resemblance to jondo number two who will now finally make his appearance God, I've been waiting for three episodes to talk about jondo number two comes from a long line of jondos. His father was jondo number one So on april 17th 1995 timothy mcvay went to junction city, kansas checked into the dreamland motel

And traveled over to elliott's body shop where he rented the rider truck he used in the bombing Now as we said in episode one When the axle from the rider truck was found in downtown oklahoma city after the bombing It was traced to elliott's body shop In junction city, kansas and a sketch was done of mcvay But according to the witnesses who described mcvay, he was not alone A second sketch was done of a man still known to this day only as jondo number two All three witnesses who saw mcvay that day all agreed that mcvay was not alone

And they all agreed on the basic physical characteristics of jd2 namely that he was short stocky and dark skinned Now the sketch of jondo number two that we know is actually all wrong Nobody really knows quite how that sketch got to be the sketch of record But the people who describe jd2 have said on multiple occasions that that's not the guy they saw In fact, no one has ever really recognized the guy in that sketch But when a second sketch of jondo number two was done more and more people started saying that they'd seen the man with the olive skin With mcvay particularly on the morning of the bombing itself a property owner in missouri syd mcvay nickels and jd2 Showed up a couple of months before the bombing inquiring about a property with a cave

Possibly a place where mcvay could hide out after the bombing Interesting you wanted to be a cave dweller. I guess so it's a good place to hide out the property owner describe mcvay with uncanny detail right down to a discolored Eye-tooth on the upper right side of his mouth and a filling mcvay had showing through his enamel Why is he looking at his mouth? Yeah, that seems like way intense information to have and this guy He actually did well the investigative This was when the defense attorneys were going around mcvay's defense attorneys were going around trying to find out if there Was anyone else involved in this they found this guy

And this guy had I mean he had a photographic memory He described the eye tooth he described the filling and then the defense attorney went back to mcvay And got him to smile and when mcvay smiled He saw that he had the discolored eye tooth and the enamel filling Did they just bring a bunch of construction workers into the uh into the courtroom and just be like smile Hey, why don't you smile a little bit? Can you imagine watching timothy and mcvay forced to smile how awkward that would be? No, he told the funny joke and he made him laugh

You did this funny because when I do describe you marcus I think about you. I mean like he looks like a haunted man with monkey arms and a big butt Well, that's nice. You're not gonna fucking bring in a mouthful of teeth like broken glass the only for smiling But I don't you don't normally smile not i mean i'm not doing the show. Yes, you can force a good smile I I can force a very good smile Now jd2 gave his name as robert jacks although that's proved to be an alias However, the name jacks is found written in merafe nickles address book in a number of different spellings She was she was learning the language. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, now the fbi's explanation of jd2

Was that the eyewitnesses at the writer shop all three confused the day on which they saw jd2 The jd2 was actually a guy named todd bunting who would come in the day after my father my grandfather changed a name from cunting Todd bunting of the bunting family But the eyewitnesses maintained that the man in the second sketch is the person who was with timothy They on that day and todd bunting was a guy. They all actually knew my grandfather felt that the name Cunting would not allow his dentistry industry to really take off that makes bunting is a much better name And interestingly jd2 shares quite a few similarities with richard guffrey the ara bank robber

We discussed last episode now. It was richard guffrey possibly Another u.s. Government plant however trying to force the bombing to happen from the inside I'm not saying it's always sheaped it. It's never sheaped it. They don't do No, no, there is there is I don't think the fbi would really want that to happen in vietnam and the vietnam war there was several members Basically, they continued the vietnam war for about a year with like a bunch of ca operatives that were fighting with no Identities fighting in vietnam for a long time. That's kind of fun I do think when you mention those things which that actually might be accurate

You should have a mcdonald's cup and I will put change in it So on april 60th the day before the rental lee mcgown the owner of the dreamland motel where mcgay stayed in junction city Said she heard voices coming from mcgay's room. She also maintained that these men had access to the room Independent of mcgay who was dropping off the getaway car in downtown oklahoma city when mcgown heard them speaking mcgown remembered she heard in her words A velvety male voice that she recognized from an earlier phone call to room 25 where mcgay was staying It sounded like he would have really good throat and tonsil action Yes, it's one of those voices and she wasn't the only one on april 15th a chinese food delivery boy named

Jeff davis very good Very good authentic now son with this name. No one will know that you're in chinese Jeff davis said he brought food to the room and someone other than mcgay answered the door That man was short stocky dark complex and loved dumplings. Actually. It was mugugai pan. Oh That is good. I like that. I like muga. It is. It's a little slimy though. That's fine. Yeah, definitely a deep cut On the menu. That's how I can tell I've never seen you be disgusted by food before so that's interesting So on april 18th the day before the bombing mcgay said he met up with terry nickels at the storage locker

They shared the two loaded up all the bomb making materials They gathered and they drove it all out to geary lake state park in kansas there They allegedly mixed the material and wired up the whole operation in just a day supposedly all by themselves After they were done mcgay said nickels headed home on mcgay slept with the bomb for the night Did he like cuddle it? He slept in the cab and the bomb was in the back and then he said when he got up the next morning He ate a whole bunch of spaghetti and then went to oklahoma city Every everybody who goes to oklahoma city's got a belly full of spaghetti. That's right. Well, he uh, he liked to eat mre's Meals ready to eat. It's but he's not i am sick of these militiamen. They all live like shit

They think that this is the way to go. They think you have to like live some weird soldier's life Or it's just like just go in your home go to get a burger get burger cake. Yeah, just make a sandwich make a peanut butter and chili sandwich Put it in a bag bring it with you spaghetti's kind of good though Yeah, but the stories witnesses in oklahoma city on april 19th told about what happened that day suggest a very different story Besides just mcgay and nickels being involved in this The first sighting of the rider truck on april 19th was at around 8 a.m At least 24 people saw the truck over the next hour with many of them reporting It was in a convoy with a yellow mercury marquee a brown truck and a white sedan

Three witnesses in a man with a military cut accompanied by a man with olive skin driving a yellow rider truck Asked them for directions to the mirror building that morning Danny wilkerson the guy who ran the convenience store down the street from the mirror building Sid mcgay came in around 840 a.m. And bought two coax and a pack of marlboro's even though mcgay was not a smoker Wilkerson remembered this encounter because of the rider truck parked outside Maybe he did that because of bad boys the film bad boys where he saw them lighten a cigarette walking away from the explosion They didn't make him look real cool. Or did he buy it for uh, uh, john doe number two. That's what we're saying. Yeah, that's that's that's what we're saying I also thought it would be because of bad boys

Oh, oh, you know a good diva She had to get fucked by a horse. Isn't that weird? No, wilkerson asked mcgay when he saw the rider truck if mcgay was moving in and mcgay said he wasn't And when mcgay walked out to the truck wilkerson said he saw another guy waiting in the cab None of the eyewitnesses nor the other 19 people who saw mcgay either with a group or with at least another guy that morning Were called to trial because the fbi determined that every single one of them was mistaken Now remember we have been through this before with columbine when the people saw multiple shooters that were not just the two boys This is the thing that does happen. There is such a thing as like

Imagining and piecing together different witness accounts and it all Of course, but the problem is is that what you're looking at is over several days Showing that he is with multiple people whether he's running the truck whether he is uh putting together the bomb I I feel like that there is a a bunch of Of loose evidence that can show that he at least had a group supporting him And at least had like a team around him that were going to try to get him to the getaway car That they weren't going to he was going to basically set off the explosive himself Well, that seems very plausible. It's a huge bomb. Yeah way. Uh, he and nickles could just do it alone

Well, I mean it's there is actually evidence. There was a guy who saw the yellow rider truck at geary lake on that day So we do family. Yeah, I saw the two of them together him and nickles up together. They were basically building the bomb Yeah, yeah, they were building the bomb there But we don't know if anybody gave them instructions or if nickles and mcvay were just putting the finishing touches on the bottom There's a lot of unknowns here. And you know and it could be all these witnesses Uh, they heard reports of jondo number two and they concocted a story in their head about c and mcvay with a dark skin Gentlemen that perhaps but the convoy of the brown truck white sedan and yellow marquee That wasn't reported at the time

And multiple people told the fbi that they saw him together and multiple people saw this convoy Struggling to get to their destination. Also. It was his yellow marquee, right? That was his that was his car We know that for a fact. We know the yellow marquee was his if he is driving the rider truck Who is driving that car? Exactly. Somebody's driving the car and it's a big obvious gross Like grossly yellow all fucked up a 1978 mercury marquee is a gigantic fucking car. Yeah, it sticks out So somebody's helping him who's behind the wheel. Yeah, and the people that saw them trying to struggle to their destination They saw those cars driving in and out of the underground parking garage below the mirror building because this is when he realized That he did not measure the goddamn parking garage entrance and he couldn't get it through

Yeah, he couldn't get the rider truck was too tall. He tried driving it in there They had this whole big plan and then they realized that the truck was just too high. They had they had neglected Uh to do their due diligence on possibly the most important part of the entire operation One job Now the backup plan maybe was to park the truck in the alley between the federal courthouse and the old post office building We know this because an oklahoma state trooper saw the truck pull into the alley and back out again When they saw it was blocked by a us marshal service truck as andrew gumbel wrote in oklahoma city what the investigation missed One can only imagine these dipshits frantically trying to decide what the hell to do when their great master plan failed

It is uh, it is just a bunch of dunces trying to pull this off Yeah, and but of course we all know what they ended up doing You know, they parked it in the handicapped spot on the building's north side But witnesses saw both the marquee and the brown truck on either side of the rider truck They also witnessed a woman with long blonde hair waving the truck into position who very well could have been an ar a bank robber pete langen in drag Imagine if he showed up in full in full costume Like he was like dressed as a woman being a woman and you they never saw that before and also he just shows up on the big day

Pete What you doing? I'm finally me Today Fuck it go. We ain't got time to deal with this. Fuck it Now the main witness who was watching from the fourth floor of a nearby building made note of The 1979 mercury marquee because that guy had a mercury marquee just like it And so he actually it wasn't one of those things where he remembered later like oh, there was a mercury marquee there

He remembered looking down seeing a yellow mercury marquee thinking about days of your probably like what a piece of shit car That is I'm glad I don't own a fucking mercury marquee anymore Uh, but he also noticed like there was a rider truck parked in the handicaps spot because that's pretty big dick move right Then there was Dana Bradley the woman who had to have her legs sawed off at the knee after being trapped in the rubble She said when she was walking into the building She saw a guy with olive skin wearing a jacket get out of the truck and quickly walk away And yet another person a truck driver named rodney johnson had to I love it That's a great name for a truck driver

Great name. He had to swerve to miss two people who had walked out into the road from his right One he identified as McFay the other he identified as a stocky man with olive skin wearing a jacket He said to the to his left was a brown truck to his right was the rider truck again None of this stuff was made public these people were not contaminated by media coverage These sightings were all done independently and none of them aside from Dana Bradley's were made public until just a few years ago When new documents were finally released a lot of these see this didn't actually come from news reports These came from fbi files that were finally released in 2010 Now what is the point of not releasing this information to the public earlier? Is it just to make it a simple case?

Yes, the whole point is just close it get timothy mcvay Right kill them in by the death penalty. So the case is over. So there's closure and also technically you are not Feeding the the far right. I think there's a part of it too where it's if they made it a big attack on the far right They thought that they were gonna incite more and more of this which is in the end is wrong And the end they just they bolstered them and they'll they technically did you think though? It did take a lot of uh wind out of their sails Especially when it came out just how many kids that were murdered in the explosion And it did fuck that but technically just made them go deeper underground and now they're now they're there and now they're electing people

They regrouped. Uh, they have they absolutely regrouped. They went legit. Yeah So after lighting the fuse the group got into their respective getaway cars and sped away But there's the question of the marquee if there was such a large group Why was mcvay alone in a car that had no license plate and was sure to get pulled over? Well, there are a couple of possible explanations here One mcvay might not have meant to drive the car for very long if he was working with langen and guthrie He would have been planned by bank robber rules. See a lot of times when a bank robbery is committed The perpetrators use a drop car meaning they leave in one car drive it to a second location

Where their real getaway car is parked and they leave the drop car behind the marquee could have been just such a car Also, he was probably making his money robbing banks for a period of time with the ara So that's exactly the type of training that he's already gotten or to mcvay meant to be caught He was the sacrificial lamb the one who would spread their message to the world the spokesman and when you compare mcvay to the rest of these assholes He was the obvious choice. He's a perfect pancy. He was a clean cup war hero He was fairly well spoken and he had no criminal record whatsoever aside from a few traffic So he'd look like a good american soldier like a

The head of the patriot movement Yep, and if anyone out of that group of dickheads could sound even halfway reasonable It would have been mcvay. All the rest of them. What are you gonna put straw smire out front? No, when he's got teeth No, he's not camera ready Timmy the mcvay is camera ready. Terry Nichols has got all the fucking the best He looks like Terry Nichols looks like the main nerd from revenge of the nerd is possible No, Terry Nichols has he has those little beey eyes. Uh, he's constantly nervous

Uh, you can't put langen or guthrie out there. They're fucking bank robbers. Dennis mahan is a big fat nightmare Right, uh fucking the malar guy talks like elmer fudd. Yeah mcvay is the only one they have He's the gym parson's I guess so. Yeah in this bizarre world of local yokels. He is the dream boss, I suppose In terms of articulate, he's been coached. Yeah, he knows exactly what to say He's been listening to these fucking idiots for so long. You don't think malar and ellison weren't piping literally the exact words What to say as soon as you're caught the things of the literature he had And then he was obsessed with patrick henry already and then when you found on his dashboard He had an envelope of documents that were filled with you know, patrick henry various different

Uh far-right writers. They're all like like he had his weird like thesis statement ready to go And the thesis statement, uh, that's also a part of the drop car theory Is that a lot of people thought that mcvay was going to drive the car? Leave it and then leave that little envelope of articles and whatnot for police to find essentially taunting them But also the thing is about mcvay is that mcvay wanted this you can tell in every interview He gave that he loved every second of his notoriety when everyone saw him for the first time During that first perp walk you do not see the face of a person scared shitless like nickles was when he was arrested You see the face of a stoic soldier who had done his duty

Which shows like the unflappable and scary arm of the csa like the idea of so and so and me like we are here to start the revolution And with you know, if you ran out of things to say he could always charm people with his star trek knowledge And with all of the different things Yeah, he can talk about that incredible. I think it's great throat and tongue action Now there is definitely marquis related evidence to suggest mcvay acted alone though There's the note that suggests the car was dropped days earlier And the license plate that was missing was stashed in the storage locker where mcvay and nickles stored the explosives But that's the big rub with this case

So much the big rub with simi the agvey and and god. Yeah, that dude. Yeah, Richard rogers. Richard rogers the big rub See so much of this evidence can be interpreted either way You can either interpret it as mcvay being an idiot or you can interpret it as mcvay setting himself up to be the lone wolf Now we would know for sure if there were more people involved in the bombing And especially if more people were in the truck with mcvay had the security cameras on the northwest and northeast corners of the mirror building Been working, but as a cost-cutting measure the cameras were hooked to nothing and hadn't been functional for 10 years How much money did they save how much money did that say 18 grand in the end was all the fixes they didn't make No, 18 grand was the construction cost. This was probably I don't know 40 bucks. Oh my god

But they uh, you also this is again where the conspiracy arm takes a hold when people say that the government did that on purpose No, I think the government was trying to save money because they were a bunch of idiots Yeah, and that's what no that's when you talk to the guy who's in charge of security and said that he had been screaming for years to get the cameras fixed What nerd Can he's being annoying you got to learn how to sell it Well, that's the thing is that you know there were of course rumors of the footage being suppressed because Uh, there was a report that the secret service had made saying like okay Like we found the footage from the mirror building, but that was done in error

They thought that they had footage of the mirror building because this is such a huge fast-paced operation There are hundreds of people working on this case all at once But the thing is like as gumbo writes, you know in Oklahoma City The incompetence here is a far greater crime than the cover-up because there was chatter among these right wing groups For months leading up to it. They knew something was there's also been the dialogue on the internet that showed that Obviously take certain footage that has been found from around the Murrah building in order to say like look you could see here Like basically pointing out that there were multiple people in the cab the problem is there's no time signatures There's no way to know and also I watched two different documentaries terror from within which is fucking incredible

Which we basically build this entire timeline of the white power Groups helping Timothy McVeigh set up the Oklahoma City bombing And then there's another one called the secret life of timmy Timothy McVeigh, which is the complete conspiracy one and they both used the same footage to say different things One proving that he's a lone warrior and one proving that he's a part of the u.s. Government as a sheep dip Do they do they get into how he earned the nickname the rub? Means Tim the rub McVeigh wide palms Well at any rate the FBI either ignored or half heartedly explained away most of the evidence

We've talked about today. See they didn't want to uncover a conspiracy They wanted a straightforward no-nonsense conviction and they got two as Nichols turned himself in after just a couple of days Because Timothy McVeigh had written down in the dreamland motel register as his address He wrote the address of the Nichols family farm. Very nice. Very nice I could just just couldn't think of another address different kind of numbers that aren't real Man, I can't be making up addresses all day. Well the 1988 sedition trial We mentioned in the last episode also had a lot to do with this See the FBI had decided that if they ever had another case against white supremacists

They would go for the slam dunk and not involve too many people They were afraid if they went for all they would get none just as they had before and there was and this was against every Instinct of every FBI agent to focus on just one guy There were plenty of FBI agents out there crying to be let loose because they are very thorough The one thing about the FBI is that they fucking they are very dogged They're the fear of investigation. That's what they do investigate But the higher-ups wouldn't go for it even though there were so many guys saying, please Please let like this guy Bob Rick's like Bob Rick's had spent most of his career chasing white supremacists

But for some reason the higher-ups just wouldn't let him loose See, it's almost unheard of for the FBI to ignore evidence that could lead him to bigger fish But that could have led him to another Waco or ruby rich or ruby rich or another failed sedition trial And it's more egg in their face and then the more more weird bad PR they get The harder it is for them to do other things within the government because again the government has to make political decisions And so if you don't have the political movement on your side, there's there's not many things that you can get done Right and the FBI tried its hardest to convince all the witnesses who said they saw McVeigh with another man To change their story some did and were put on the witness stand

Others didn't and weren't Now again, there is no direct evidence that McVeigh was ever an Elohim city at any point But it has been strongly suggested by a number of people both in the far right and in law enforcement that he was Because remember he also called cause which is essentially the white power aclu It is a group of lawyers Someone called in asking what to do about this bombing whether or not they should bomb this building or not I feel like that was another clue. There's another like a sidebar of this whole world Where it's like he was also trying to get their legal team involved. Yeah, it's a small world. This white supremacist world

I mean, they have their own they have their own little weird ecosystem, right? Yeah, because they learned it from the Turner diaries because it sets it up within the turn diary Turner diaries of how militia should communicate to each other But neither the far right nor law enforcement has admitted that McVeigh Had help in this whole thing for one reason None of them want blood on their hands specifically the blood of 19 children After McVeigh was arrested and tried the jury deliberated for three and a half days before convicting McVeigh on all counts And trying to save McVeigh's life the best anyone could say about him came from Michael 48. He said

Honestly, if you don't consider what happened in Oklahoma, Tim is a good person. Yeah, but we're mostly here for that Oklahoma City bombing thing Yeah, then he is a naughty naughty. He's naughty boy. The best thing I could say is great throat action And after that statement, uh, it took the jury about three hours to condemn McVeigh to death Still seems long to me quite frankly. It does. It's just like do it right there. Can't we just do it here? Yeah Maybe it was good food they were eating. I don't know So on June 11th, 2001, Timothy McVeigh was put to death by a legal injection Michael 48 was sentenced to 12 years for his part in the saga and Terry Nichols received a sentence of life in prison At the colorado super max facility where he remains to this day

Richard Guthrie hung himself in prison Pete Langen is doing life after a dramatic shootout with the police Dennis mayhawn is still given dumb shit interviews. Elohim city still plug it along It is around and they are fucking getting dumber and andy the german is back in germany Oh Having been smuggled out of america through mexico after the fbi started asking questions about him He said he moved back because oklahoma had become quote stressful That would make sense. That's why a lot of people leave a lot of germans leave because of the stress

I've always heard that about oklahoma city the stress level. Yeah, oklahoma. Elohim city real stressful place Oh, yeah, now so far not a single other arrest Besides Nichols 40a and mcvay has been made regarding the events of april 19th 1995 And it's starting to look like there never will be I gotta say michael 40a That 12 years is light That is a light sentence because they do know he's complicit in the mass tragedy. I feel like that's a little bit too Uh, light of a sentence. Well, they well, he turned states evidence Oh, michael, michael, michael 40a, michael 40a was the star witness against timothy mcvay

So what do you mean? I'm like the star witness. Yay. He was the lucille ball Of the witnesses. Wow. So I think we've all learned a lot today. That is uh, fascinating stuff There's no way uh, the timothy mcvay acted alone and it's all that community That was a great the onion peeling back the onion peeling back the onion. Hey guys, so they just run you out there It's like if you feel like really proud about something like dial it back before you murder a bunch of people Dial it back. Yeah, but this is where where rhetoric, uh, you know, when it actually turns to violence It's very difficult for the fbi and the cia to know when that's actually going to happen. Yeah, this is it's tricky stuff Well, I bet they were like licking their wounds from waco and ruby ridge

You wonder if they would have just had a little bit more political incentive to actually stop this stuff But also ideas can't be illegal We cannot start shutting down one idea because then of the then how do you do thought crime? What is going to start? This went far beyond ideas. Of course. They had homemade grenades. They had ammonium nitrate. There was an illegal I'm not arguing this. I understand No, no, of course. We're we are of course not Um, advocating for the legislation against ideas or anything like that But in this case the atf they didn't go in for one simple reason. It was cowardice. I mean that that's what it is

That was the reason why that they did not go in because they were afraid that waco was going to happen again They were afraid that they were not good enough and this is big boy shit And that's what this is. It's a it's supposed to be hard. They're not wrong to some degree It would have been who knows how it would have gone. It would have been very difficult It would have blown up. Can you imagine if we yeah, can you imagine? We we we might just do an episode on elo home city or however the hell you're pronouncing Elohim city had they gone in there and had a huge firefight Who what reality would have that would that have created a bunch of people would have died

A bunch of people would have died on both sides. It would have been a big fucking gigantic clusterfuck And they and it was very difficult to figure out. How do you pull yourself out? There's really no good decision once you push the button Now the machine's going like once you're in there now It's you're going to deal with the reverberations and then what if they decide to still blow up gigantic federal buildings after the raid I mean after you raid Elohim city after that you get bullsholes like arkansas. I mean that's what their fucking job is They can't just say they can't just sit back and hope everything's going to work out all right Because they also tried that six years later in the lead-up to 9-11 like with uh, Osama bin lad when susan rise told bill clinton

I'll go after they pull back and they hope that everything was going to work out okay And yeah, fucking didn't because it never you know what they should have gotten though if we could have just sent them steven urkel Oh, what he would have done and he just could have charmed a bridge bridge. He is a bridge. Um, all right. Well great episodes Um, thank you so much for listening. Let's see anything we want to plug here Marcus Uh, we are coming to uh, Milwaukee this week. We're gonna be in uh, Nashville next week We're gonna be in montreal the week after that. That's the just for last festival. Go get your tickets for that last bug Oh, and then we've got we're coming to north carolina. We're coming to Omaha. We're coming to pittsburgh

We're coming to toronto We can finally announce that we're gonna be a part of the san francisco outside bounds festival Yeah, awesome. Queens of the stone age, man. It's metallica is playing to metallica That's so awesome. Gorillas. That's gonna be cool as shit. I'm gonna meet lars. I want to meet dr octagon I love dr octagon. Oh, it's gonna be so fucking cool. I seriously doubt they're gonna let us in with the musicians I know definitely they won't no we will be Courted off and and netted into the podcast 10 Do you remember during the the slc comma con about how far we were kept from chasing momoa?

We were not allowed within I don't know 40 feet of him. Yes, but I stared at him long enough I felt like I talked to him. Yeah, and if you guys want any and all ticket information for that Just go to last podcast on the left comm and all of that stuff is there That's it. Are just for laugh show is at 3 p.m. Which is prime for us. We got thursday and friday So if you can't come out to that 3 p.m. On thursday, then you can make 3 p.m. On fuck and don't forget it is just for laughs So if you even think about not laughing remember what you're just there for the monstrel secret police We'll just take you to get poutine and it's a punishment there

And it's a punishment so make sure you follow us on twitter at Henry loves you at marcus parks at ben kissle Follow us on instagram at dr Faintasty at marcus parks at ben kissle the number one and follow last podcast on the left on all of it at lp on the left Yes, and thanks for all of our patreon subscribers. You have all made this possible and we really appreciate you Yeah, and if you guys want to give to our patreon go to patreon.com Slash last podcast on the left. Sorry. We can't do again. We're still in los angeles We did two episodes in two days two gigantic episodes in two days So, uh, yeah, we still don't have our printouts from uh travis over in new york city

But we'll get back to the shout outs next week. I promise you I will butcher your name next week Don't worry about it. It's there. Don't you worry about it. Hail satan. Hail yourselves. Hail guinea Let's do a maghustalations Thank you. Yeah maghustalations the mouth action that you just used to say maghustalations was incredible. Yeah