Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 301: Jonestown Part II - Sidestep and Bullshit

Episode Date: January 19, 2018

​On the second part of our Jonestown series we cover the early days of the People's Temple from Jim Jones' hightailing it out of Indianapolis because of nuclear anxiety to their very first compound outside of Ukiah, CA and all of the bizarre things that happened in between.  I Can Feel It Coming - Machine Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Samba Isobel - Machine Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left This is gonna come out sometime after the the news of this weekend, but I think it's nice for Hawaii to feel some pain They are so relaxed. Do you think that's right all the time? Do you really want to say that on camera on microphone? This is gonna be like it's gonna come out like a full week after the Hawaii thing. Yeah It's totally out of the news Welcome to the show everyone. I am Ben Kissel and this is the last podcast on the left But you already heard an intro so you know that already but per my contract

I will remind you this is the last podcast on the left and who am I you are Marcus Park who are you? I am Ben Kissel and he's out there in Atlanta, and that is Atlantis Henry Zabrowski. It's cold in here It is very cold inside of this apartment, but honestly wouldn't be nice You have 30 minutes you think you're about to get blown up by a fucking nuclear bomb sure you could say whatever you want Yeah, and then you technically then you'll have to deal with it a half an hour later Is that what you're concerned with? It's like the nuclear missile comes and all you're concerned about is getting out of free speech jail. Yeah, obviously. It's my good shot. Well, I'm sorry what happened to your Atlanta Falcons there over the weekend as well speaking of destruction. Oh my goodness Alright well speaking of free speech. Oh, some guy took full advantage of it in the length of the death of a lot of people

Jim Jones Jonestown part two. This is intense. So when we last left Jim Jones, he had just founded people's temple giving a name to an Organization whose membership would fluctuate from dozens to thousands over its 23 year existence But in 1955 Jonestown was still a long ways away It would take years for Jim Jones to build it, but as we talked about last episode he'd already figured out the basics by 1955 he just needed to take it to the next level remember this when you start your cult The big thing is patience, right? You have to drop seeds early. Yeah, it takes a long time You had to build in generations. These are the people these are why things last a long time This is why tying Scientology is still going on is because it's deep-seated. It takes it

So just give it that mmm. Give it that slow cook and remember time keeps on ticking into the future I might expect thank you for I almost forgot about I know I know you did almost forget those sage words from Steve Miller band Absolutely, but don't make your doomsday date too early. That's what um Shinrikyo made the mistake of 92 was right around the corner Yeah, they should have pushed that to like 2025 push into the future build it up and say I'm gonna be a lot of shit well That was actually one of the genius things of Jim Jones is he never actually put a doomsday date on his own cult He put doomsday dates around him, but he never put one on the cult itself with him as we'll see if you follow Jim Jones You avoid the doomsday dates. Oh

Now one thing that's important to know is a large part of the people's temple membership always was and always would be Elderly women. He's rolling in it. Do you think Jim Jones like looked out of the crowd was just like I've done it Finally look at all of this crepe paper skin. I love looking at every single human being here whose arms I could break if I flick their wrists with the strength of flicking a sugar package You just reminded me of that story of my friend who worked in the nursing home The patients would get their skin snagged unlike random like I don't know why they're nails hanging out And just peel right off their body like just as you said paper machine so many congressmen and senators are in their 70s Right now. Yeah, it's so easy to just take them out in the White House by just by getting a Zamboni

And just driving through Congress and just sweeping them up with the sweepers and fall apart They literally would they would turn into like pulled pork. That would be a good scene from scream Queens Well all of this this all owed to the way that Jim Jones was able to ingratiate himself with old people And so one of the people's temples first altruistic projects was taken elderly Congregants into the personal home of Jim and Marceline and eventually that endeavor grew to several nursing home Facilities in corporation size. It was and they were good. They were good nursing homes They worked really hard at making them super high quality. Yeah, they were quality nursing homes in this work What nursing homes is to Jim Jones is what nursing what magic Johnson wants to car washes?

Also a very convenient aspect of the nursing home angles of what he would do with these old people is that he would get them to Give them the leases to their homes and then he would take their homes and absorb all their assets So it's it's a really fast way to get money. Is it just to adopt an old woman, especially like 95 to 97 She's not gonna be around for that long. She's not even gonna know you're not wiping her ass anymore You leave her up in the closet until she's gone and then you get all her stuff Oh, that's not good. Did you learn nothing from Billy Madison? That's Ben Stiller's approach. Happy. Happy Gilmore. I'm sorry. Oh my goodness Well, that's one of the ways that this whole nursing home thing worked for Jim Jones

The other ways is that they took care of the elderly and so they gained the community's trust Three it gave members of the people's temple jobs Together these three things the money the jobs and the community care would be integral to the development of people's temple both in Indianapolis and beyond Jim also founded a soup kitchen type cafe called the free restaurant which served about 2,800 people every week He organized clothing drives and he put together youth programs that kept kids off the streets He was doing good work and it was a lot of hard work and he Realizes and so that's where these games start playing out, right? Where it's in the end again

This looks totally kosher this looks great, right? So that he's trying to help humankind and he is helping humankind and a lot of it Is genuine but the promise it's so small It's just just small amount of people he's reaching and this is still just shitty indie You know what I mean? He needs to figure out. I don't think that that's the official slogan of Indianapolis Love the city loved Indianapolis. We were to crime-con there. It was wonderful. It was actually surprisingly beautiful It was a beautiful town, but you know, yes positive all as all this was the center He said like this was all small fries Jim actually won political influence, right? And the person to help him there was Marceline

So you're telling me the way to get political power in this country is not embracing older African-American women That's not that's not the road to the White House in this doesn't seem like it Yes, serving free soup doesn't get you there except for Bernie Sanders who just ate a lot of free soup Oh, yeah, a lot of it and it is now by the way. Look at Alabama. We won't go into it. See at first Jim Jones Didn't necessarily have a talent for civics. He was a little chorus He didn't necessarily know how to move in those social circles But luckily for him his wife had grown up in a politically active family She was sent as a scout to various civic meetings across Indianapolis

Taking notes on policy to quorum and who the local movers and shakers were well I honestly believe that he specifically chose Marceline as his wife because of this fact right back in the day It seemed more like oh, they were in love. She was kind of the hot nurse He was the the the fun nurse that made sponge basses fun And it was like but I it's she he saw those qualities I think and knew that she came from a civic background and as all these things kind of came together He was like, ah, yes The your purpose has been revealed to me and then she just fit right in because she was I think she was excited to be a part of

The entire movement. She liked it all of the volunteering. She loved the nursing home She took a she personally was in charge of a lot of this June and Johnny cash Establishment Johnny the rebel, but who did the audience relate to mr. Cash? So after Marceline went to all these meetings She'd report back to Jones and then when Jim Jones himself showed up to the next meeting days or weeks later He knew what to say how to say it and who to say it to instantly giving him credibility But politics wasn't the only place where Jim Jones had his attention in the mid to late 50s That's when he discovered father divine a.k.a. The messenger a.k.a.

Reverend major jealous divine You know because you have to be to name yourself jealous divine you have to be very very confident Love it. Yeah, I mean his His logic for calling himself jealous was I am a jealous God Oh, and so he said that the God's name is jealous and so God's name if God's name is jealous Then my name is jealous. You call me reverend major jealous divine Why do I have a feeling this guy has an assistant solely to rub butter on his feet? I feel like this is gonna come rub butter on my feet. You know, I call them loaves for a reason

So hard at that how I punish these big Cracked feet by jamming them into these shoes How does this get me closer to God again? Mr. Chalice rub the feet and you'll see my friend Jim Jones pretty much stole father divine's entire act and repackaged it sort of like what Elvis did with black R&B Stars with what a lot of white people did with a lot of black people stuff that is true and what Orion did to Elvis All right Orion was great, but Orion it was different. It was different. Yes, it was different I really think it's true where Jim Jones sort of was I mean Jim Jones obviously is the garage rock of Cold leaders. He has taken all of these things

I would say a bad thing or a good thing. He took it's a good thing He went for cold leaders So it's a bad for the rest but he was a guy that he Invented a lot of the stuff that we're gonna see became the trope of the cold leader But what we're actually gonna see is that most of those turns the classic cult leader turns he stole from father divine I could like father divine was doing this since the 20s and he figured out a long time ago How to manipulate a group of people into doing things that they didn't want to do he's taking it to the next level though Perhaps oh, yeah, Jim Jones is the Elvis of cult leaders. This guy took it worldwide

Everyone knows who Jim Jones is. Yeah, just like everyone knows who Elvis is. I heard that very good Marcus So yeah, since 1919 father divine He'd run the kind of figurehead centric black and white integrated kind of cult that Jim Jones was aspiring to divine He ran a tight ship on his compound He had successfully convinced his followers that he was God on earth and he had his pick of female followers nice Divine had such a hold on his congregation that when his wife Peninaya called wait, what was that peninaya peninaya peninaya is a cool name. You got to go to the doctor I've never heard that name before I think it's peninaya. It's either. It's either peninaya or peninia. Okay, I'll demand peninia

You could be peninia I have no idea. Well, they called her mother divine and when she died in 1942 father divine replaced her with the 21-year-old Canadian named Edna Richings Saying that his wife had jumped bodies from an elderly black woman to a supple young white one and nobody said anything You have to be pretty good at talking Yeah, I do that Especially talking to that Edna girl who's just like so I'm who now You're my wife

Well, it's like the spirit jumped into you and now you're my wife. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't but I'm just happy to be someplace. It's not backwards-ass, Canada It's like the movie little Nikki Jumping bodies was she was his personal secretary Oh, and so I think that they possibly had a relationship going on before mother divine died And then when mother divine died, that's when she jumped bodies over to this other girl Edna And Edna got the name of sweet angel divine cool I'm just gonna say I hope that Travis understands that one day would Marcus leans over

After maybe maybe the sometime in the past and you were like, you know Travis, I had a dream last night that Carolina Jumped into you. I don't really understand the sleeping with your secretary Yes, Travis, of course the longtime producer here at the last podcast network Now this whole thing this whole path to success for father divine It was not particularly smooth nor was it easy But father divine was living proof that a man could gain and keep followers and it could all be done relatively peacefully okay, and Jones he saw something to aspire to and he learned everything he could from father divine who like most Cult leaders enjoyed having his ego stroked

So he was all because Jim Jones came in he had been running a successful integrated church in Indianapolis He was a young dude and he came in to follow divine's compound follow divine saw somebody that he could brag to essentially But also remember this when when he was doing the beginnings of this church It was like it was very socialist and was very very personal He dealt with his congregation very closely Jim Jones and he looked dressed like shit Like he dressed like hand me down clothes. His furniture was filled with his houses filled with rundown furniture everywhere He walked the walk and that's what he was basically saying is that like we don't need we shirk all luxuries we live a life of service and

Chastity and a lack of money and all stuff then he walks into father divine's mansion where he's got full-on harem of women with their nipples visible like full like a crazy He can infer that there were nipples out nipples Nice furniture he's got like a shea's lounge like he's got a full couch that just for lying because you ate too much Organ meat and then but this is true father design dressed father divine dressed in beautiful clothes beautiful suits and Obviously Jim Jones walked in there was like. Oh, man. I've really been fucking this up Well, that's what I was thinking too, you know with that we talk about ego retirement homes old folks

Old folks homes and soup kitchens. He's not like living the high life at all No, not at all like he's he is living the true socialist ideal like he's he's walking the walk like Henry said But I think one of the most important things that Jim Jones learned from father divine was the skill of Improvisation because the first thing that he sat down there and they said zip I do what now We're gonna take this we're gonna play the ball. We're gonna form a ball of energy I'm gonna toss it to you and you're gonna pretend to catch it, but there's not gonna be a real ball. No, no, no It's improv. We're gonna do a thing called big booty. We're all gonna sing a song wherever goes a big booty big booty big booty

Uh-huh a big booty, and then we pick we all give each other numbers. This sounds stupid. Yeah Yep, that's the thing with improv everything is imaginary including the money in your bank account It's not a way to make a living. It is not it is it is a tool to use so as I said father divine's wife Peninaya had died a cancer back in the 40s This was despite divine's promises to both her and his congregation that he was gonna heal her of the cancer and everything Was gonna be fine and this failure put into question whether or not divine had any powers at all Yeah, but when he found Edna renamed her sweet angel divine He was able to say that peninaya had just taken another form

So in essence he had cured her because she wasn't really dead. All right, excuse me Uh, mr. Father divine now much like sweet mother divine or not to malign her at all Ugliest shit and old and fat and dumpy So if I just close your eyes now close your eyes Roger it close. Yes If I just smother my wife to death in her sleep I can just replace her with their younger one and just tell everyone that she's the younger one. Yes That seems dangerous Slippery slope. That's what I say in other words what Jim Jones learned from father divine was sidestepping bullshit

And in these cults people kind of have to just go with it I think there was also an Elvis song side step in bullshit Sounds like a wailing Jennings song. Yeah, that's true So these people in these cults they have to lie to themselves and say like oh course I like that totally makes sense. How could I have ever doubted this guy? Because as we always say with cults to question the leader is to question every decision You've made up to that point since joining up Scientology being the obvious example of that, right? Yeah, I mean after Scientology specifically because you put in

75,000 bucks 100,000 bucks. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that's a horrible decision It's always about money and Jim Jones has already set though He was talking about like even just joking around is that he did plant the seed at the very beginning of doing the money's not important Money's not important. Just give me your money. Right. Give me your money money's not important. I must have it though Yeah, and that's interesting thing is that at first all that money did go back into the coffers It did go back into these socialist principles But as they started getting more and more money and as they started really getting big that money suddenly stopped going back Into the socialist people's coffers like it there was a ceiling on how much the people got

But I think when they when Jonestown finally went down They found all of the different bank accounts that Jim Jones had been holding I think it was somewhere around ten million dollars Wow that they had in their coffers still flavorate That's how but think about this. That's what what's his name the who's the The guy who looks like a big white testicle with the hair on top of it the billionaire Steve for oh Adelson Warren Buffett All of them look exactly the same but Warren Buffett gets the same breakfast sandwich every day for 249 from Hardee's That's how billionaires keep their money. Just a common man like you and I

Well as far as seeing people who had already said yes to the bullshit Jim Jones saw that and Father Divine's people and Also in that he saw a Shortcut he saw a very easy way to build his own congregations He followed divine was getting on up in the years. So Jim's plan was to wait until follow divine died And when he did he'd first convince sweet angel divine that just like her Father divine had jumped bodies brilliant, but this time he jumped to Jim Jones look at that That's when you want to be a sort of a stinky creepy guy who runs two kitchens and he was gonna do that Unfortunately, he met the same fate as Jim Carrey did in Liar Liar where it was cursed was any cursed or did he flip a coin?

How did he get that curse? That's what happens when your father isn't there if you make a wish on a birthday candle it comes true But in reality it doesn't know not once that's the no Yeah, but that's the thing is that if Jim Jones got sweet angel on his side Then people's temple would absorb the divine run international peace mission movement and there's rolls off the tongue International be see that's the that's the problem and that's why we know people's temple But we don't know the international peace mission movement. You can't even say you just you trip over it every time We have brand muffins or brand muffins. Do you want a brand or we have a brand muffin?

It's magical thinking that also works with advertising. It's about a thing that just punches absolutely Yeah, but that opportunity would not come for a few years yet Follow divine still had a little life yet and Jim was nowhere near ready to take something like that on he hadn't proved himself yet He was still building his team now What's telling about the followers of Jim Jones is that a lot of the people that ended up being his most loyal the ones who Essentially served the flavor aid had joined up in those early Indianapolis years These were the people that saw Jim Jones at his best before the dark times and I think even up till the end They were still expecting that person who started soup kitchens in Indianapolis to come back

You know what it was I mean in my estimation that we'll get into later when we have obviously covered Guyana But they talk about the the congregation of people's temple They were a fun group of lively sweet People and I think a lot of what kept these people in the fold was the crowd that Jim Jones had built like and there's that There's that there it's it's it's weird how far you can go for a congregation like really belonging to a group of people That's like one thing that us kind of people like me as a Satanist like, you know, we don't say this don't hang out Yes, basically Satanists all just sit around to correct each other on their grammar and talk about how mad they are about statues Very very difficult. I can see why you'd want to stay in yeah, sure

But it's also like being in a bad relationship where you say I knew him when he was good exactly No, no, I mean a cult can we've talked about this and we talked about this and pretty much every cult We've talked about being in a cult is like being in an abusive relationship You know and these people you know when you talk about like that Henry talks about like the good times the good times people There's this fantastic resource on the internet It's like the Jonestown project where it's run by an historian That's put together all of these different stories from all these different former members of people's temple And I read a lot of these testimonials and a lot of them will make these lists of like these were the good times

Yeah, it's like being a New York Giants fan. Just think about the Super Bowls You just think about being the Patriots. Meanwhile, you just like staring at a three-win season Yeah, and Eli Manning just happened to be sort of like a he was sort of like a Rudy He was like a force gump of football work. Just good things just happened to him. Boom. Henry Zabrowski hot football Uh takes. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. I'm getting better. It was good. It's accurate. Is it accurate? Yes, because the guy is gumpy. Let's be honest and every time he won anything he was ass-backwards and stupid It's just you're going, huh? Well, huh? Some people's lucky and Peyton just grinding his teeth every night He just wakes up screaming just being like I was the best quarterback who ever lived

Well, perhaps the most fervent of all of those early followers was Patti Cartmell She was a woman looking for an apocalypse and found it in Jim Jones a woman looking That's a hell of a Tinder profile a woman looking for an apocalypse. Yeah, and then you but you spell it a pack of lips Oh Well, what she would do is she would drag her family to revivals all around her area Looking for that guy that spiritual leader that was finally gonna tell her what to do and was gonna tell her how she could be saved And then when she saw Jim Jones, that was it. All right He was her guy such a strange thing to actively seek out, but I guess yeah, and this this woman She would be Jones's most devout follower. She would be un

Unquestioning and obviously smitten with Jim Jones even after Jim Jones later put her in charge of what he called his fuck schedule Oh my god, what is that about? She was too heavy for him to sleep with she was a very large woman She said that he said that she was too heavy for him to sleep with and he said so instead of having sex with you I'm gonna give you even a better thing. You're gonna be in charge of all the women. I fuck Well, how was that a better thing? She loved it? I gotta say this guy had something going for him. The same as Guy Fieri Watch triple D and when he interviews female cooks, they look at him. They look through his soul. They love Guy Fieri

It's the opposite. I feel like they're fine with it. You know what surprised me was Guy's big project was him dealing with the new Food network stars. He's he's very in control of what what he does and he gives very solid Constructive notes to those people. Yes. He does eat sleep barbecue. Pretty good show Well, Jim was building his team. He also brought his mother along She showed up and immediately got a job as a prison guard at the local women's prison Wow, and over the years she would talk to anyone who'd listen about the early days of jimba jimba It's a perfect name now that in hindsight And she would die in Jonestown prior to the mass murder still believing that her drug-addled

paranoia-fueled son had grown into a great man Another good thing about the road to Jonestown by Jeff Gwynne was the way they kind of explained How churches work like the more learning about how congregations are made where it's like again So we went from revivals or open mics to him having his own show at his own church But then what you want to do is get that church affiliated to a bigger network of church like joining a union or essentially you want to be able to Join a other network of churches that then you can say are also Connected to your church so that you get more legitimacy and that you can become an official pastor So that's what he did. He was on his way to being an official pastor

But he had to get a bachelor's degree and the other thing is they said it's like your whole Personal life is garbage you need to figure out you need a better image because he was trying to join up to a higher network And so he's like fuck. I got to get my mom back into play So he hadn't talked to his mom for years and then she showed up. She's like, oh, you're a celebrity Let me show up She was like a she was like a fanning. She was like a Dakota fanning's mom Is he trying to do what Ray Kroc did with McDonald's? I'm serious. He's franchisee

That doesn't come until later, but yeah, I mean that's that's eventually what he tries to do You mean one of the best businessmen to ever exist Ray Kroc We're in the real estate business not the burger business. What that's that whole frickin stupid movie By the way, I love that movie. I love that movie him so much And he put the real McDonald's brothers out of business He was the only smart person in that old fucking People they just figured out how to put ketchup on five burgers at once. Yeah, and then he just destroyed their lives for no reason He did he did the million dollars to fucking shoot for the what do you think Oprah has done who will soon be president?

By the way, Oprah is what I'm calling her. She's the only hope Don't we'll talk about it later. You're marching toward even further towards dystopia Oprah Just a dystopia. That's what I call it As far as joining up with the bigger church went eventually he did get there he joined up I think they were called the first disciples of Christ eventually he did join up with them But even more than just legitimizing him in the eyes of his congregants It also got him that ever elusive tax exempt status. Oh boom boom

That's the crazy thing Henry you mentioned getting a bachelor degree How does that like do you think that God if you are gonna be the spokesperson for him is like you have to get your education? Do you think that he cares about the college? University assistant he's not gonna take an AA Because anybody can get an AA half the people you see at a 7-eleven happen AA I guess Well in building up his image Jim and Marceline also started building their own family even though he and Marceline had already failed at

Taking care of a child back in 1952 Jim Jones had unsuccessfully tried to adopt Marceline's 11-year-old cousin Ronnie Ronnie had come from a broken home But it always hoped to return one day But Jim decided Ronnie now belonged to him and that Jim could raise him better than anyone else could so Jim Started gaslighting the kid tell him that his mother didn't love him anymore. He could never return home They didn't want him there so you need to stay with me, but the kid didn't buy it He was smart enough to see through Jim Jones's bullshit, but Jim. I just want to say number one I love what you do and love the house love love being here love the bed love the food

Huh, but I'm not a free agent I don't know if you don't know that kids aren't just like waiting to be like adopted They can't just be like randomly ass adopted me like I need to like be okay. I got a mom The kid rejected him yeah, and when Ronnie finally decided to leave Jim took it as an ultimate Betrayal as he would anytime anyone tried to leave him over the years He always took it personally, and he always got real fucking mean about it I mean later on in the later years in Jonestown I mean he'd put guns up to people's heads

Yep, so the poem stayed childless for another six years until the Joneses adopted their first child ten-year-old Agnes Oh, right now Agnes is an interesting character in this story not because of what she did But because of how absent she seems to be for most of it It's because Agnes just never really fit into the whole Jones scene for some reason and all throughout the story all you get from Agnes It's pretty much no and also Agnes was there and she was at Jonestown during the Tragedy that's one of the saddest things about is that even though she was never truly a part of it Her and her brother Lou were the only two of the five Jones children to die at Jonestown She was a real Jan Brady

And unfortunately, I believe also Jan Brady committed suicide I think that there's a later on Brady bonus service where Jan Brady committed suicide, which is pretty dark Yeah, well, it's tough to combine families like that Well the kids that survived were Jim's biological son Stephen, which is spelled Stefan No, but still spell it but well because they had pH pH am yeah Well the reason why his name was Stefan was because they had adopted another little girl named Stephanie But she died in a car crash also for a while He was really really nerdy, but he invented this crazy machine where he could go down into it and he popped out

He was all cool And so at first it was it was Stefan But as soon as he came out of the machine he was Stefan The other kids that survived were the adopted sons Tim and Jim jr. Now Jim jr. Was the first black child adopted by a white couple in Indiana that white couple really yeah Yeah, Jim Jones and Marceline first white couple to adopt a black kid in Indiana and India's entire history and along with the Korean Lou and the Native American Agnes Jim jr. Was the last addition to what the Jones is called their rainbow family honestly the United Nations

Technically it wasn't really a rainbow family. It was mostly a lot of beiges and browns It looked more like a Kardashians closet because beiges and browns are really on trend right now True rainbow family is on Sesame Street because you got Blues and you got yellows and you got oranges, but it is another example though, and I have to give some credit here He's walking the walk. He is absolutely walking the walk. Yeah, he really is. He's doing it on the surface He's making political choices a part of this got to be because they had an open conversation him and Marceline Said they wanted the picture of their family like when they take a picture for it To look good, which is yeah again when you're making these hollow choices on some level. It's great because it you know just

Literally on a very shallowly. You're doing really wonderful things. You are you knew and then in actively it becomes really nice and good And forward-thinking but in the end. He's only doing it for the picture But he's still doing it and also that picture matters. Look what happened when Mike Huckabee and his family was photographing together No, you railed everything. Well, that was their own fault for wearing the matching shirts. They also need to wear fitted pants better pants Cover the gun. You don't want to show your whole fucking foot. I don't need my fucking a leader of the free world to have a 25-pound Fupa this is So by 1961 Jim Jones had formed a pretty good crew he had loyal followers He was a family man and he was gaining political influence and with those followers help Jim Jones got to work on the system itself

Grassroot style and through careful manipulation of business owners administrators and local government officials Jim Jones Almost single-handedly began the peaceful desegregation of restaurants hospitals and the workforce in Indianapolis That is true incredible very Demonstrable progress. Yeah, it was interesting how he did it, too He'd go to the businesses. He'd say so you're gonna Desegregate your restaurants and we're gonna be he would come in with black people like and he'd be like, okay We're gonna sit at the table that you always give me because you know me from around the community And they say well, no, we can't sit them and he's just like no you have to sit them down and be like well

You're embarrassing me. I'm a pinnacle of this I'm a part of the society when big like people are watching me get kicked out of this restaurant And then you go back and like listen, we're gonna make an arrangement here You're gonna desegregate this and I'm gonna fill this whole restaurant See, okay, and so he'd go away. He'd come back with half the congregation and just blow out the place like just fill it up And he did it again and again. Yeah, and he'd do it at like 3 p.m. He'd do it in off hours So he'd do it in the times that these people weren't making money anyway

So he'd do it in the off hours and he would pay for all the meals of the people that he brought along Wow So everybody everybody was winning and then after that They would put up flyers around in the black neighborhood saying like this business is friendly towards you You can go to this business and you can go to this business and have a meal That's how crazy racism is these business owners are staring at empty restaurants, but they're like at least it's white ghosts It's like that's how dumb they were how blinded they were it's like fill it up man Yeah, but also remember the temple was not paying for them the temple was not paying for their meals They were actually paying for their meals

Just a bizarre like middle manager for life But that's the thing though that it wasn't like Jim Jones was just doing all this out of the goodness of his heart It was that in part, but none of this came without a price in exchange for all he did for his congregation Jim Jones demanded their unwavering loyalty and this wasn't just loyalty to him It was loyalty to socialism as well The member was acting in a manner that was selfish or materialistic And they were to be reported directly to Jim Jones himself and by selfish and materialistic They mean like going to see a movie. Yeah, we're buying a new shirt

I see so really kind of isolating them now very much so Not back in those days. The punishment was pretty tame They'd pretty much just be stood up in front of everyone he yelled out a lot. That's a lot though It sucks, but it is nothing compared to the rubber hoses and boxing matches that came later kind of fun box Yeah, no way. No way. It does sound fun, but isn't most of his congregation elderly. Yeah, how we kind of Think about this you get a couple of 80 year old women You tape a couple of like could like what's at this the stove gloves some some shore oven mitts some oven mitts You duck tape them to our hands and they got to slap each other until the first one falls first full win

That's a show. I would like that honestly the fact that you just said it and suggested it to the world I believe it probably is your show right now until see you right after my 600 pound life Well, it wasn't mostly elderly women. It was just what happened granny It was a large part of it was elderly women Yes, but there were a ton of people in it that were you know, just you know regular folks fighting elderly women Now surprisingly Jim Jones who was a legitimate leader of integration didn't have that many enemies You'd think he would but he really didn't in fact most people seem to enjoy him But another thing Jones learned from Father Divine is that a leader is nothing if he does not have enemies

Right and since nobody else is gonna take the first shot at Jones He had to take it himself staging. What was to be the first of many fake assassination attempts? Wow? Yeah, man, and this first one was pretty simple from what it sounds like He just walked out his front door fired a bullet and one of the pillars on his front porch We ran back into the house yelling that someone had taken a shot at him God I wish I could see the footage of that What a great liar because you know what it's about that lied to is that obviously it's a bad lie But it's kind of fun that he just did it and they probably watched him walk out of the house

Because it was filled with people the house was a both a nursing home and the house was filled with kids He just walked out of it shot the pillar then oh Oh, oh ran inside just like oh, we're getting shot at they're like you have a gun on you He put the gun in my hand. He must have been night crawler Always blaming the x-men and when the cop showed up it was very obvious to him to them what he'd done They're like they're like yeah, you just shot it right like you know, but then when Jim went to church that Sunday He had a new story to tell he had a new urgency to the cause He had a new enemy a faceless enemy, and he had proof that God was protecting him and two-fold

Not only did a stranger try to shoot me, but also the cops didn't do anything about it So you know you have two new enemies that you could go blink blink He told his whole fucking act from father-in-law. I see I can I can see why this is compelling Yeah, and not only did the cops not do anything for me, but they didn't do anything for me Just like they never do anything for you. Bam. Bam clickety-clack bring it back around call back learn how to do improv This is technically him doing Harold work Bring it back circle it around. Well, Jim at this time also got a new enemy overseas But this one was more of an all-encompassing unstoppable monster. Who's Godzilla? What's going on Russia?

How are the Russians involved? This is the early 60s cold wars and oh, man, and Jones like a lot of Americans. I miss the cold war We're about to get a new one. Don't worry Kissel. It'll be fun. I don't do your desk when the bomb comes that'll work Oh, yeah, so have you guys had the conversation with your significant other the planning conversation? No plans happening in my house. What happens soon as anything looks unstable rampage Don't worry. They whatever is the the the rickety crate of bombs that they put on the raft that they push from North Korea Towards LA once it arrives to the beach, then I'll be upset then I'll be Well Jim Jones like a lot of Americans got pretty obsessed with the possibility of nuclear war with the Ruskies

Oh, yeah, pretty soon word around people's temple was they had to get out of Indy and they needed to do it yesterday I heard it was called shitty indie by somebody Now I agree with Jeff Gwynn and the road to Jones town when he says that Jones's fear of nuclear war was genuine Oh, yeah, yeah, he was a naturally paranoid person in this fed into that perfectly Now this wasn't like Charles Manson talking about helter skelter and the race war and all that so he could convince a bunch of young girls To move out to the desert and Ryan dude and ride dune buggies with them all day because that was his best possible life It was it was incredible idea, and he fucked it up. He didn't do it, right? It was all it could have been great But this stuff, I mean this is what info wars is based on yeah

This is why Alex Jones sells a tactical bath, which is evidently a weapons grade bath Soap that you can use I tell you what whatever makes me look like him. I'm buying I'm about to get that protein powder What does one bullshit like mad his protein powder actually has semen killing chemicals They had to be recalled the vitality pills on info wars. Oh, the ultimate irony is it kills you Like Manson who was lying about all this shit Jones had a very real fear here He said that he had a prophetic vision Which me and you would probably just call a nightmare right that Indianapolis would be destroyed in a nuclear blast on an undetermined date At either 309 a.m. Or 309 p.m. Oh, but he knew it was 309 very good specifics

Yeah, very good specifics without being specific at all Yeah Because of this Jim Jones started scouting new locations for people's temple and this is when he took his first trip to Guyana And that's what I found out. It's actually pronounced Guyana. Thank you on there Guyana the reason why he went to Guyana was because Guyana was gonna be a socialist country Hmm, it was right down in South America But the thing was is that it was still new it was unstable So Jones decided that the time wasn't quite right for that, but he kept it in his thoughts

Okay, so Jim Jones is going to Guyana as far back as 1961 Scouting it out scouting it out live your dreams. Yeah, and Jim Jones was coming up empty with ideas But luckily he was an Esquire reader. Oh Oh Esquire and in 1962 they published an article that named nine locations in the world that would most likely Escape destruction or fallout in the event of a nuclear war and even back in 1962 They still had Gerard Butler on the cover of Esquire magazine He is the only person allowed on the cover of that magazine strange article. How to kill your followers

Esquire now even though Eureka, California, which was on the list was just a hop skip and a jump away Relatively speaking. Uh-huh Jim decided that he'd want to take his chances down in Brazil Oh, and so he left the church in the care of his associate pastors and took his family De bello or is that it does sound like this? I'm not really sure every time I listen to like Portuguese stuff Portuguese stuff. It sounds so fun and Fancy just like hello. Well, I'm not but I need but it's because it's a different thing than just normal Spanish And I don't get it. It's like it's totally alien Spanish. It's Portuguese. It's a totally different language I know but it's just like German is the weirdest sound in Russian

You know, I know enough Spanish to like I could read it and recognize it I can hear some and understand it but then with the with Portuguese. It's like I don't understand any this It's like it's like a Burger King menu in Brazil I know what these sandwiches look like but none of them are spelled with this many use and Z's at home Yeah, I was on a House Hunters international that was it was Brazil. I'm intimidated. Yeah, I can't go everyone is so beautiful Yeah, you gotta have a beach bod. We do not belong in Rio. We are not built for Rio I can handle Brazil because I got a big butt. Yes, you have a big but they would use you for it Exercise stomach if you're very my stomach's flat. No, no, it's getting there. It's getting there

It would just be kissle walking around because definitely you have to wear a full white linen suit and a white fedora And you'd be walking around pointing at other elderly Seemingly foreign men some some central European men that would tip their hat to you and you tip their hat back I mean like secret safe The secret safe with me. Oh, I see you're making a Nazi joke good Morgan. I get it Took me a second, but I just figured oh, it's another one of those Well, Jones figured that with as many poor people as Brazil had he could pull off the same trick He'd done in Indianapolis, but when he got there he found that the missionary business in Brazil had a bit of a glut

Yeah, that's like me like I'm certain to do I did some cardio work on a trampoline. It's it all of a sudden I mean like I think I'm ready from top of the seal and aerials Like when you go down to Brazil the poor community of Brazils are not the same as Indianapolis, right? No, absolutely much more economic in need. Well, there's a lot more economic in need But there's also so many fucking missionaries It's like it's like trying to move to LA to be an actor But not knowing anybody in LA and also not being able to speak English. That's right. That's why I say if you're an actor Stay in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Stay there big fish small ponds

You could be the music man every year when they do the music man every single year Yeah, I mean there were too many people there Jones couldn't get a foothold and he didn't even speak Portuguese. Oh, well, yeah There's no way. Yeah, you know, it's easy to speak Portuguese. You should put use and Z's in normal Spanish I think that's a Polish version of Portuguese, which isn't actually Portuguese. The only thing that Jones seemed to gain from his time In Brazil was a good yarn. What are you mean? A good story. He got one He did. Oh, it's a very good story Yeah, and in a story he told many times over the years as proof of the kinds of sacrifices He was willing to make for the greater good

Jones said that while he was in Brazil a diplomats wife approached him with an indecent proposal of sorts I'll give you one million dollars to sleep with your dog What? Excuse me. I'll take 50,000 No Well, Jones said that at first he refused to acquiesce to her sexual demands But eventually he agreed only under the condition that she'd donate $5,000 to the local orphanage

Yep, that's how good his dick was But again, that's good. The kids don't care where it came from It's not true, Kissel. It's not true. It didn't happen. You don't think that's true? No, it's not true. Just tell it to the kids you just got $5,000 at a local orphanage in Brazil No woman ever has to offer $5,000 to sleep with a pasty-faced Sam the ego-looking motherfucker who shows up and you're gonna like it's like no no no She could have been with a Brazilian man with a six-inch tongue whose hips can swivel like he's an action figure

Yeah, that's a good point like a he-man action figure and every time Jim Jones told this story He never failed to make sure that everyone knew that he delivered no less than pure physical ecstasy a job Well done for a job well paid. I believe it. I don't think so I think if he had sex he had sex with like a jackhammer like you see those big weird Russian porn star guys They're like pampin pampin pampin and it's over in 30 seconds. Yeah, they all they look like a rusev from the WWE Well the point of this story was that sometimes you have to bend your morals for the greater good and not only was it okay? But it was almost more impressive if you got your hands dirty because in sacrificing your morals You were sacrificing yourself, which is a very convenient idea to plant in the mind of your cult

Oh, so the idea the individual does not matter in their in their society the individual doesn't matter What one person does doesn't matter and but I think this story basically come out of the fact is that he went to Brazil And he came up cock up like he showed up to Brazil and then he was like oh shit. I Fucked up. He's right two years there. Okay, but he still is a wife here at this point, right? They're in the whole family is in Brazil Yeah, yeah, they went from a bello or a Dante and then eventually they went up to Rio for a little while They had no luck there either so yeah, they'd been there for two years and back in indy People's temple was falling apart because it wasn't really the message that brought people there and kept people there It was Jim Jones, right and without that charisma

There was nothing to hold the church together in fighting split the whole thing up associate pastors took congregants elsewhere And when Jones returned to Indianapolis people's temple membership was a fraction of what it once had been and And furthermore desegregation in the city had continued along just fine without him and a lot of people had taken up Where he'd left off in the community outreach area in other words when Jim Jones came back to Indianapolis He was out and this drove him fucking nuts Yeah, the part of me like I honestly Almost understand because he did a lot of fucking hard work and when he showed up and the and the city was getting desegregated He was trying to get back on the human rights Human Rights Commission

Which was he was doing for a while in the city when he showed back up. They're like, oh, we don't need you They just took all his work and jumped with it So he was left with nothing and this is to me. We've talked about this. We'll talk about this too I really do think this was like a turning point for him. Oh, I came I absolutely agree that this was the term turning point I mean, this is because the one thing that we know about Jim Jones the one thing that will definitely learn a lot more later on Is that he could not accept failure and he could never admit that he was wrong And in fact you could possibly say that's why Jonestown ended the way it did because he could not accept That he had failed right also the feelings that came up

I think that a lot of times as people like you probably understand this where it's like, you know when When something happens and you don't understand why you're you get you have a certain reaction It was like when I for some reason I involuntarily cry to the song Baker Street That one I cry at that song all the time and obviously there's something in there That I don't know why I don't know what so when Jim Jones showed up and the temple had fallen apart his rage Spoke to him because he showed up and realized. Oh fuck. I can't stand watching Anybody else share in the leadership or in the credit of this association like I did so much work with my fucking blood sweat and tears Also

Saying that I'm wrong also the fact that I'm not in control Seeing somebody else at the pulpit made him a fucking crazy person. I understand. Yeah makes sense. He built it Yeah, he absolutely built it and as far as admitting he was wrong You know like the only reason why he was able to come back from Brazil to the United States was cuz JFK got shot in the fucking head He used that as an excuse. He said alright things are going real bad back in the United States I need to get back. I need to be with my congregation if he wouldn't have had that excuse He might have languished in Brazil until people's temple just disintegrated because he was not about to just come back with His tail between his legs and say hey guys. I'm sorry

I failed because in order for Jim Jones to work as Jim Jones He had to be infallible and that's why the speech that he gave or the sermon he gave after the JFK assassination was entitled big If true He went in and he really broke it all down. I think Ted Cruz's father was named Yeah, I mean Jim Jones here he failed a lot of different levels. He failed to build a community in Brazil He failed to keep his congregation together back home And he failed to keep his place as a civic leader and so from that point on he controlled Everything and he'd always been a control freak

But now he truly had to say in every decision no matter how small and all this was fueled by his paranoia because you know Control and paranoia go hand in hand a lot of times I know one of the reasons why I could be a control freak sometimes because I'm a very paranoid person I get where he's coming from. We're really learning a lot about you guys today Henry Zabrowski weeps like a child when it comes to 80s romance ballads and Marcus is a control freak We are though, but it's a part of what you do take imagine this. I think that's what's important about this story, too What is your worst quality blown up to its to its edges? That's what a cult leader kind of him embodies. We're like Jim Jones, right for control his

Psychopathic need for control is what's gonna change everything. It's gonna change the world. Yeah, yeah, and as far as I get it though Yeah, I totally get everyone failed. Yeah, and even more than that not only they failed They'd actually taken members away from they had actually betrayed them. Yeah, like they had they had stolen people away from his congregation and He would never let that happen again, and that anger fueled him from then on see before he'd left He had an afternoon radio show from 445 to 5 p.m. On wi BC. It was a 15 minute radio 15 minutes. Well, he paid for it. Oh This was like his podcast. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it was daily. No, it was I think yeah I think it was daily. Yeah 445 5 p.m. I like that in and out in the message it take it out

Yeah, and it was mostly positive before he left for Brazil and then when he left, you know One of his associate pastors took it over kept the fires warm But when Jim Jones came back he went Straight for socialism cut out the Bible all together and started hinting that he just might be a prophet Most people did not buy that bullshit and Jones had his show taken away from him because he was starting to get a little aggressive I already might be a prophet So really it was starting to become obvious to even Jones himself that he'd worn out his welcome in Indianapolis Geez, and so he returned to the same Esquire article. He'd ran to for answers before

His trusty Esquire. It's like is it just on the back of his toilet just like waiting It's like the golden Esquire. What is going on to check that out and he took another look at Eureka, California I'm surprised. They didn't take a look at that before you went to Brazil. You'd think they'd send someone out there But they looked at Eureka, California just a little south of that halfway between Eureka and San Francisco Jones found a little town called Yuccaia The scouting mission gave intel that the location was perfect And so Jones started convincing his followers to take their first Exodus he gave them three reasons to go fear opportunity or guilt if you weren't afraid of being killed in a nuclear blast

And then you'd at least be living a better life in sunny, California. I want that Yeah, it's nice in California And if you were already living a good life in Indianapolis Then it was because of Jim Jones and you owed him I do Yeah, it all works I've done the math it checks out This was also a complete lift from father divine again because father divine had gotten to a lot of trouble in New York and move The entire congregation of Philly and also it is the first allowance of total

Control to Jim Jones as soon as you enter into a Greyhound bus with 70 other forwarding People to go across the country. You're already fucked. I mean that this is there. It's their first compound They are officially in the cult territory six nineteen sixty-five Jim Jones took about a hundred people a little less Moved them all to Redwood Valley right outside of Yukia if I was making this a movie I'd have him read that article and then turn the page in Esquire and it would be an advertisement for for a big old sunglasses Buy those back in business starts playing Well, that's also true because after meeting father design he started dressing better and he started wearing the sunglasses

They were on it. So now we're in glasses territory. Not quite He's still he's going back and forth with the sunglasses like after father divine He started like I kind of like these sunglasses a little bit But we're not in sunglass territory just yet. We're still losing them a little about five years away from sunglass. Yeah Well, the thing was about Yukia is there wasn't really much for Jim Jones to actually do see with Indianapolis He had a population in need and for that matter He had a population right Yukia had only about 15,000 people and most of those people were white and wanted nothing to do with people's temple who at this time were mostly black

Well, it is very Isolationalist when they where they moved out was in the middle of the Redwood Forest went out there and it's gorgeous It's really nice, but it's fucking isolated and these are these are also people. These are a pro Vietnam or people This is a very deep Trump country in Northern California that they just roll in with these buses fill with black people and they're like whoa Yeah, and these are also like these are also like black people that are looking for equal shake in the country and all these people in Yukia We're all looking like and thinking like oh well well black people who complain. They're just not grateful for what they got

And so they were not welcome in you California it's not all L.A. Yeah, and Jones He got a few more people to come along from Indianapolis by actually setting a date for nuclear destruction July of 1967 Oh, but that only brought about 50 more people and to keep them there. He doubled down on nuclear destruction He even told them that he had a special cave up in the hills all ready to go when the inevitable happened Not unlike Charlie Manson's hole on the ground where his followers would go to wait out the race war. All right You know what? It was an underground city, right? Yeah, it's like is like don't you worry you get down there There's there's a 7-eleven down there. I haven't checked it out personally, but I heard the taquitos are fresh every other day

Roller taquitos caves have a big hold on the human mind. They're like there's something about animal It's it's in our DNA. It's been used forever The idea of we'll go hide in the cave and it sounds kind of fun because in my mind. I imagine loony tunes I imagine cuddly bears in the cave. I imagine the Herculoids. What are those? Oh? Well, you know what the reality of the cave is it's slimy. Oh, it's not great. It's not dry in a cave. No, it's wet Yes bugs eating dung. I hate it, but you know who didn't have a cave who Indianapolis They didn't know caves in Indianapolis. Oh, man. You have to have a cave installed Maybe there's this an adult entertainment club called the Indianapolis cave

Do not go But even though the people who came with Jones had devotion the one thing they didn't have was money I'm sure they gave everything they had and a lot of them sold their houses and gave all the money They made to people simple they moved naturally, but that wasn't enough So Jim Jones shifted his recruiting pool from black and poor to rich and white after all what a shift? Really 180 that one and knew how to do it because after all man has a compound to pay for now Absolutely So Jones started recruiting those people who had become disillusioned with society

Educated people who wanted something more fair and just these were people who didn't really have problems But they recognized that others did and they wanted to help because none of these people I mean none of these people were idiots You know the black members needed help and they got it and the white members wanted to help and they gave it right and in the Process that became a truly integrated community and for a time. They were happy. Oh, that's good Well, again when they showed up these were the fun times Like the beginning they kind of talk about this like people afterwards members of the cult were saying like this was probably the Happiest they were because it was this trip like it was really hand-to-mouth

Like they didn't have a lot to eat and they didn't and they were not the most physically comfortable But everyone was kind of having a good time like they sang in a bus together Across the fucking country you have to really like a bunch of people when we sit in a airplane Going across the country. We sit silently in the seats like just staring at our phones You can look at people like I think he's thinking about talking fucking opens his mouth on this damn plane I will freak out Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and it was also very small at this time like this is before the scene got big

Well the thing is about these members is that everyone who came in was carefully screened they didn't just let anybody in yeah extreme vetting extreme But they're like what would happen is prospective members would be invited to a function and would be kindly Interregrated without these people even really know what was happening this one guy said that he was like it's always they get taken to a second location Where he would meet up with one of these people at the with people simple like a service or something like that and be like Hey, we're gonna go to this sock hop that we're chaperoning. It's like a teenage, you know dance party So why don't you come along with us? You know just hang out like okay cool go and hang out

And then they go and hang out there and they talk to him a little bit further And then if they pass the test if they gave jim jones the okay Then jones would swoop in and scoop him up with a highly Connective personal conversation. It's like how people talk about with like bill clinton like as bill clinton They say he can talk to you in a room full of people and make you feel like y'all are the only two people on the face of the Planet jim jones was exactly like that also remember this shit's being done by kindly 70 year old women So they're talking you're like oh you got to try some of the cookies you've got to I've made them at home also What are you gonna do in the event of a nuclear apocalypse?

You got the fucking stones to have the ak to fight the secret police I like that they sort of transitioned to dr. Evil at some point In the conversation of giving cookies to the nuclear apocalypse Yeah, I mean it was older older people as well, but you know it was also like a lot of young people You know like these were all like college age people They were these were people in their like 20s and 30s and this was like the mid 60s So a lot of people they're doing that whole like back to the country type of things like we're getting out of the cities The cities are are corrupt. They're full of racism and crime and there's so much injustice there

We got to get back to the country and we got to get bet We got to start over essentially and that's what jim jones offered a lot of these young people And he had he had to do it. They did have to start over. Yeah, and jim jones He was very smart about who he let in people had to have the right attitude But that's not to say they didn't let in people who could be considered undesirable Because they actually needed those people too. They took in drug addicts trouble teens criminals They helped them clean up their act and they turned their life around for them And jim jones used those types of people to his advantage because those people felt like

Jim they owe jim jones their lives because in a way they did There's exactly what Scientology does with alanon and criminon and all of those side groups Is that how many people that Scientology get simply because they got them clean, right? It's also exactly what jigsaw does You know because he's not about torture. It's about learning a lesson Yeah, and jim jones he used that loyalty to essentially turn these people Into soldiers eventually giving them uniforms and arming them. Wow. Yeah, because I mean because these people were You know, they were at the drug drug addicts. These were like the hardened street people arm them Well, I mean these were people who had a more violent past

Right, so he took them and he molded them into essentially weapons that he could use are you susceptible to Um to impulsive thinking here's a gun Yeah, and these people you know the people that he took off the streets and Molded them into something else mold them to essentially weapons. Those are the ones that were lying in the pavilion jones town You know like these were right. I always forget this ends in like Unbelievable pools of blood and mass tragedy. That's why it's an incredible story. It's because it goes from and it just shows Anything built on a foundation of lies is going to lead to bad. Shit. It's just no matter what the lies are No matter what you think it is that you're you're headed towards that you live a life filled with

On that kind of shaky foundation. It's going to sink. Yeah, not just lies, but allowances as well Right, you know like being now they seem to be giving him a lot more They're giving him a lot more and there is a lot more to give As far as like arming people goes like it's not to say that jim jones was militant He wasn't at least at that point now the closest they got to like militancy at this point Is that in redwood valley? They trained a bunch of teenagers in like a little like fun militia thing And the teenager's job was when the bombs dropped they had to get all the old people up to the cave

That's nice. Yeah, it's fun. It's the same thing with ome shinrikyo How much fun that must have been that we're doing the drills because at some point you're feeling it and it's very It's like the goonies. It's like stranger things You know these kids go out there with flashlights. They get they're in charge of the old people if they don't fall can fall online You know, they were given a secret to directive just being like you can hit him with the flashlight Like if they struggle you can start pop them a couple times The kids didn't have guns, but they all had crossbows. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. It's fun. It's like the doofuggies You have to have activities

It's like doing group chipping as long as there's fun activities pool noodles Like one of those big bouncy flat things that you jump off the crane You know like those big like like like safety bags that you jump off the high dives on to I've seen people have fun on those Well, I think with cults. It's important for us to also talk about the good times It's important for us to tell you that like no one knows they're joining a cult Like no one knows like no one joins these things thing like wow. This shit is awful. I'd better stick around Well, now you got me thinking chumbo wamba. I'm thinking tubs open

You gotta think about the good times. Yeah, you never walk into it thinking like this is awful I'm gonna stay. You always go into it because people are happy and people are having a good time Right, you know and then eventually later on that's when the hate comes That's when the paranoia comes and jim jones was great at injecting that into his followers in very subtle ways It's like the if we keep drinking the way we're drinking until we're like 60 You know what I mean? Because then it's sad alcoholism and now we're a good we're a good time guys We have good times. I mean, we're we're on the we're on the cusp here. All of us are kind of staring down 40 pretty hard Oh, it's becoming a real issue for me. Yeah, I'll tell you that

Oh Well as far as taking the paranoia down to the micro area Every once in a while jim jones would say that everyone in the congregation had entered what he called an accident cycle Whoa, yeah, and that meant that everyone had to be extra careful because jim jones had had a vision that one of them Was going to get into a deadly accident and the only way they could avoid it was if they believed in him If someone could only market to the population, maybe like dummies like crash test Dumb, you know, just someone to inform us but entertain us when it comes to driving safety Well the person to take the fall for one of those accident cycles was a man named whitey firestone

Uh-oh, that's what happens when you name yourself after a racial slur and a tire Hi everyone. My name is cracker. Good year. All right. I love cracker. Good year. I like a cracker. Good year I trust somebody named cracker. Good year. Absolutely A whitey was one of jim's trouble members seemed like whitey was always fucking up in one way or another Was always being called up front for a good tongue lashing I feel really sad about whitey firestone because he reminds me of uh, philip seamer hoffman from boogie knights Yeah, he's just always the bad luck dude. He's always around like he's just kind of a bummer and he fucks shit up

Oh, yes. Oh, man. R.I.P. I'm gonna give an R.I.P. out there Well, one night after a particularly rough dressing down in front of the whole congregation Whitey accidentally drove his entire family over a cliff quote-a-quote accidentally I honestly do believe that it was like It's not an actual suicide, but it was like a thing like he he just kind of willed it Yeah, I think it was with whitey firestone. I was like, I'm fine with this Uh, like he can kind of let his driving hands get a little looser because they there were actually they were in a valley

So there were a ton like these roads were actually very dangerous. I don't know if he did it on purpose But I think he was fine with it. Huh? Hey family, you ever see just how easy it would be to just Jerk the wheel Yeah, daddy, uh, and uh, I'm gonna say for one as the son of the group none of us like the top Well after they got after they went over a fucking cliff jim jones heard about it He sped down to the scene climbed down the ravine and found the car crushed And one of whitey one of whitey's kids did actually die in this accident Oh, I thought they all died. I assume they all had passed away one died, but the rest survived

No, he had they got to live in in sadness He literally he lived in a straight up two like arm slings and a leg cast just being like I'm just like I'm just shouldn't be the driver Um guys, uh, whatever is going on here. I should probably be riding in the back. You guys going to get ice cream No one takes me on trips to the city anymore, but Sad life for poor whitey Yeah, but jim jones when the everyone else survived besides that just just that one kid jim jones said

It was because he healed them and that gave jones a double hit first his prophecy came true And he got to heal people in the same swoop. What did the kid do that died? What did he do to piss off jim jones? Why was an accident cycle? Yeah accident cycle All right But it makes people but that that sort of thing makes people even more afraid Right because whitey because that's the thing is that now your kids are in trouble as well Your kids are also in danger because whitey didn't believe because whitey wasn't good enough at being a socialist He didn't die, but his kid did so if you don't believe then your kid could die as well

I don't think we need to keep rubbing it in About how much I don't believe I'm I can't scratch my own Dickenballs So if I could also if someone could just please bring the soup to me You know, I got a drink with a goddamn straw. You guys are just I'm getting sick of this But that whole thing almost backfired on jim as well Because one of his most devout followers a woman named joy sweeney died in a car wreck on the way home from a late people's temple meeting

And jim spun this one though by saying that he'd in fact had a vision And he had seen it coming and he had worn joy But he told her that before she drove off that she needed to stop and meditate for two minutes But she just brushed him off because she did not listen. She was dead So you'd better do every stupid little goddamn thing that I tell you to do if you don't want to end up like joys Oh, I'll tell you what anybody, uh, you know, nothing says rebel Like a 60 year old woman named joys Yeah, no one's nobody shirks the rules more than elderly joys who then said like

Fuck your meditation. I'm gonna go catch some dick And then she hopped in her motorcycle and vroom vroomed her way to heaven. Yep james dean had nothing on her Well, those little bullshit things. I mean that that's how jim jones got even more Uh control over him, you know, because like meditating for like two minutes and like say He told him it's like, yeah, if joys would have just meditated for two minutes She'd be alive right now. But and because she didn't she's dead So if I have something stupid that you don't understand that you think you shouldn't be doing or that you think is Idiotic thing to do you'd better do it or you could die. You're thinking about it. Don't think about it. Yeah

Yeah, so again, he flipped it and reversed it and he gained even more control Hmm But Actually for the most part all the supernatural stuff at this time in redwood valley was taken a back seat Since the recruitment was focused almost slowly on disaffected whites socialism and equality took the lead Okay, but that's not to say all that supernatural shit disappeared altogether One of the things to seem to be an almost universal opinion among former people's temple members was that jim jones Was anything you wanted him to be okay?

I mean even jim jones himself said that what if I want him to be a gremlin and I feed him after midnight It would be cute. That would be cute to do but it's not gonna physically happen kiss. Is there anything else you want him to be? Oh, uh, just a gremlin. Yeah, it's just you have to have more imagination. You have to have more Yeah, well later ball Well, if you wanted jim jones to be a socialist leader you got it if you wanted a supernatural daddy You got it. Don't nix in this God daddy is the oh daddy daddy

Oh, jim jones, you're my daddy. Oh, I'm gonna vomit when they got to jones sound. They called him dad. They did Uh, they father they called him father formally. They called him father, but comfortably they called him daddy Well, if you listen if you listen to the the death tape I mean a couple of people because they go up and they give these testimonies of why they should die Uh, and they refer to jim jones. They casually refer to him as dad. Like I followed dad down here Oof, but you know and speaking of that if you wanted god himself from jim jones You got that too. And you know who said the same shit with charles manson Yeah, you know if you look up at me you see god you look down at me you see the devil you look straight at me

You see yourself they understand what they do and later on his his His sermons are going to get so rambly Because there are thousands of people in the congregation and he's just saying like a paragraph for each person That's there for a different reason. And so people just don't remember the shit that didn't pertain to them They just remember the stuff that they agreed with so he's got a whole quilt work going on here Different different needs for different people and he addresses them. Yeah, you a huge quilt quilt work And it doesn't matter what contradictions he had. I have to say though I don't think anyone referred to charles manson as daddy because that is he just not exemplified fatherhood

No, he's not a paternal figure. No, no, no, no, no, no, no He probably even went, ew, ew, don't call me daddy Well in this way like jim jones is a politician and that he can contradict himself so many different times Yeah, like a liar or really all politicians are professional liars. Yeah, exactly like he can sit there and contradict himself But as soon as the follower with the person that believes in him the person that follows him as soon as he talks to them As soon as he talks about their problems with they believe him, you know, then They forget about everything else. They don't think about the contradictions at all All they think about is that he's got my back and I'll put this as kissle

I don't put it to you on the on the politicians as liars scale. I'd give you a solid like you did good I'd give you seven point five That's why I only got six thousand votes Yep, that's the all that's the ultimate irony Uh, but that's the thing once you understand people are in they they need their own interest addressed And at the end of the day, we are all in it for our own best interest of base human quality That's what you play on so once you understand that you can really do anything And there's another side to that the other side to that is that all of these people that were in that room

Even though they may have been there for different reasons They all had the same enemy. They all had one person. They all had one cause to fight against Well, it's actually a few different things, but you can roll that entire ball into one word the system Because you he railed against the cia the fbi the government racist bigots. All of this was the system Yeah, and all of that could also be balled up in one other word Satan that satan was the system the system was satan. So that's how always maligning him Always attacking him. He never gets to tell his side of the fucking story and again, if he's bad to them He can't be all that bad really

I don't like it. I hear he's part of the system. Oh, he's not I'ma put up a statue. Well, that's how yeah, well, he could also Bring in both sides by saying satan is that way if he said satan then he brought in the bible thumb Right, right, right, but he could also bring in everyone else that wasn't religious bring them in by saying like, you know Like yes, it is satan and then turn around to them on the other side of his face and say like, you know I'm talking about satan. It's just like a metaphor, right? Right, and then you turn over the bible thumbers and say like the satan of the bible and then turn back Like it was the exact same thing

But he was just saying it in two different ways and everyone was buying it. He's the mayor from uh, from um, A christian nightmare before nightmare before the mayor before the mayor from nightmare before christmas great character But even though all this was going on people's temple struggled in stagnation for about three years Like small growth was happening, but it was very slow going. It wasn't until another assassination happened That jones saw another opportunity because this man knew how to take advantage of a situation So about two weeks after martin luther king jr. Was assassinated Yes, one of san francisco's biggest black churches held a memorial service open to the public jones caught wind and brought damn near his whole congregation in a caravan of busted up cars and vans

He knew his people really really well And because he had such an intimate relationship with them and he knew that number one they would love this And it was a part of the community and I actually think it was twofold is that he knew that it would help him down the Around down the road, uh, and it also was a thing that he wanted to be in the center of like it was a huge thing He wanted to be in the pictures at a massive Like uh, uh, memorial for martin luther king I was thinking also maybe bobby kennedy, but I guess it was mlk Bobby kennedy was a whole different thing for them and that plays perfectly into what you're talking about with the system because the

The rumors of uh, hoover's fbi being involved the cia killing him that started right away Yeah, co until pro was real then all they got that all got been Vindicated in the end. Yeah, and uh, the people of people's temple were they were genuinely compassionate They were genuinely moved and saddened by the death of martin luther king jr. You know and you know They skewed a lot heavier towards the white side. So when they showed up at this service, they stood out But they were also Genuine and they were compassionate and they were welcomed as brothers and sisters and god And after the service jim jones and his people started talking about all the good

They were getting down to up in ukia and invited everyone there to visit anytime they wanted So the san francisco people figured why the hell not? And when they got there they were met with a two-pronged attack of racial equality An actual religion along with a few healings thrown in for good measure. It's strange to think about like weaponized goodwill Yeah, yes, that's that's that's how you wow. That's a damn good way of putting it That's what it is is that he realized exactly that he got exactly what he wanted and then every single time he flipped somebody He got pleasure out of it. I think that's kind of what we're talking about here is like with allowances that we talk about with serial killers for him, it's the slow

Acquisition of humans. Yeah, and he'd throw in a few healings as well as mostly mind-reading type of healings Uh, do you ever get to whitey or he just kind of stands? Well, I think they put whitey in the back Yeah, I don't think it's really starting to itch if somebody could get me a hanger You cannot just pretend like I'm not here guys But this time with the mind readings it wasn't jim jones that was eve's dropping on the crowd for information It was patty cart mel. Oh, yeah, she'd go around the crowd She'd listen in and report back to jim jones with pertinent details now. You might think all of this shit

might Raise a few eyebrows and the new non religious types that people's temple had just recruited But they were told again and they believed again that all this was just a means to an end We just had to get people in we we should yes, we have to we have to lie to them. Yes. We have to do these healings Yes, we have to have a bible-centric service this time and every time these people come but it's all for the cause It's to get them in and then once they get in then we can get the real work done Right constant reasoning was numbers. Yeah, it's like we can make real change unless we have the numbers that we need In order to put butts in the seats, which is true

Which is like honestly, we've seen it on our own Our own tiny level as a podcast is that like you don't get to until you have like the numbers You could show up to meeting be like well this many people Follow me like you can it's easier to give that person money that way. Here's also about power though Yeah, and can you imagine if Dave Chappelle's last special had an empty audience? It wouldn't have quite the quite the same impact So after the san francisco crowd was impressed with the message Jones repeated would have worked so well in indianapolis and brought back the notion of a church where you get something now

He started doing the exact same thing where you know, he would you know, they would help them out like government forms Programs getting them jobs all kinds of shit like actually making their lives better because of all this People's temple started to grow again at their lowest point in 1966 They had 86 members, but the end of the 60s. They had 500. Wow by 1973. They had almost 3000 It's almost like they're about to serve over a billion burgers The sky is ray crocking it all over town again smart businessman great lover New one mcdonald's needed to get to the top don't want to that is the worst love story in movie history

By the way, it's pretty great. What's it called the founder that we're the founder. I just watched it like this weekend It's great. Love story is disgusting. Ray croc is disgusting and it's an affair. Yeah, the love story is awful Ray croc is a terrible person. Thank you. Uh, he was incredibly necessary He changed those guys would have been nothing without him. They didn't know they were squandering everything The only good thing about ray croc and mcdonald's is it is slowly killing our president right? And I don't know if I can legally say that But that is the the long game for ray croc ray. Oh come on ray croc and this man is responsible for the way the world is He's I know it's horrible. It's awful. I know that's what I'm saying is that ray croc

I'm talking to henry here. Ray croc is not a good man. Ray croc is the fucking devil loves him marcus. He's very important I see what he says as a he did his job. He was around all these people that were pathetic They didn't know how to make their business good and he went in there and they should be thankful for the money that they got And this is what jim jones told his followers as well be thankful for what you got They were hard-working honest americans honest americans. They didn't have the guts to take it to the top And sometimes you got to have the chutzpah to really kick it to the next year You know, I did not realize you were such an evil capitalist The coins falling out of my shirt

Well those members when they were first starting to build up their membership those people were hard fought Now once people's temple had decided you were right for them once they had chosen you They would do everything they could to get you and keep you there was this one girl She told this story of how she'd arrived at people's temple after escaping from an abusive home And she'd been taken in by a couple now She said she was grateful, but she wasn't sure that she'd stick around just yet And she'd written letters to her family, but she hadn't gotten any replies So she started drifting towards jim one night he cornered her and told her personal information

That she hadn't even told her host so as far as she was concerned jim jones was a mind reader and you know These people were very kind they had taken her in so she joined people's temple It was only later that she found out that her host family had been stealing her mail Reading it and passing along the information to jim jones talk about the system. It's like the movie the visit It's like one of those things you mean with all of these super cute old people and they're just stealing your fucking mail Because that was she was saying she was sitting in there and she thought that her family had left her Basically what jim jones did is what he couldn't do with ronnie where he just cut her off And made sure that she couldn't get any word from her parents thinking so she thought that she was just sent a drift

But she was getting letters and sending it back and forth and they just they just kept they kept it away from her Oh, that's very sad Yeah, and jim had a name for this for doing shit like this. He called it situational ethics I honestly think kissle you said the same thing to me about 4 30 in the morning in a hotel somewhere in the middle of this country We're both nine 19 bourbons in Situational ethics as you would like taking stuff from the hotel That is actually fine because you're paying for the room and what's inside of it other than the bed And of course the television

Yeah, and this followers they went along with it And they also started going along with other crazy shit that jim jones was starting to say In 1968 he started claiming that in past lives. He'd been buddha jesus gondy and somehow both linen and marks What's because he's working on the Scientology timelines where you could be two people at once Okay Yeah, and these sermons which people's temple by the way, they they didn't call their sermons sermons or services or anything like that They called them meetings Okay, and these meetings would go on forever and most of the time the doors would be locked

So nobody could take any sort of bathroom breaks and these were of course For people who'd already joined they didn't do this shit for people that were just visiting and these meetings would go on for so long It would be so exhausting that one former member said he saw a grown man pass out and piss himself in the middle of one A grown man Piss himself well and also remember um so in order to keep people focused He wouldn't have chairs so you have the stand or you have to sit on the ground because he wanted people Completely enraptured But what he would do is he would stand behind the pulpit number one what he had was a couch

That no one else could sit on that he would lay on During the meetings and he was also allowed to go to the bathroom if he wanted to but in the very beginning In order to keep himself to keep up his image He would have a special apparatus rigged up behind the pulpit. Yeah, catheter type thing. I think it was just a bucket. Yeah He had a bucket A special apparatus I think he just pissed in a bucket That's also reasonable pissed in a bucket and that was behind a pulpit. Okay. Yeah, yeah

But let's you know like let's just hear An excerpt from one of these redwood valley meetings. This is just the sort of shit that he would do to fill time I was thinking the other day just a few services back the last week one of my brothers came to me to show you that there's nothing lost in this consciousness My brother john back there. You were concerned about something that was lost You were so concerned you lost it miles and miles away But my spirit retrieves it for you today come and take it I just wanted every now and then to show you that it can be done

Oh, yeah Thank you With you yet, I know where you lost it in my race There are other things I lost here that I would pass out. If there was one enemy, I'm just doing a little shock work Keep you mesmerized with the socialization It's like uh, it's like rage against the machine with ragtime music and a preacher It's very interesting. So much fun. Honestly, I wish I could do a lot more in this show of being like And that's when a pussy fell off

Found it in the river We found it in the river like I want to go a lot more transitioning to gospel songs Yeah, and what was he even talking? I mean I heard socialism in there Yeah, so I mean so did that if that didn't read it all uh, then what he was doing is that he was just talking about how uh One of his members had lost something And he found it he found he found it and you know, he's like and here it is And it was like a card or something like that and then the person came up and uh, you know got it from him And he was like, yeah, I've got a whole lot of things that I found. I just found that I just I just found it

And I gave it to him I got a whole lot of other things that I found but I'll give it to you after the service But until then I just you know just mesmerizing you with socialism Oh The small little miracle for them quotations miracle is just as big as anything else Yeah, I tell you what if that's a miracle Natalie does like five miracles a day for me I've slowly slid into the father's disease my every dad's disease where it's been like, where are my keys? Where is my bullshit?

Marcus don't tell Henry that father's disease is alcoholism Yeah Don't don't tell him that he's not a father just because he has a dog. I am a daddy for debate I am a daddy. She needs me Well, Jim Jones also started giving bizarre orders He'd order people to drink a glass of warm water mixed with vinegar every morning Did I mean was he just thinking like do you think they do this dumb shit? Yes? What if I say this if they do this that's exactly what I think I honestly think that a part of it

Yes, is that it was it's subtly indoctrinating them I think it's half on purpose half not but I think every single time he did it The penis would like shift every single time somebody would do something completely against their will He would love it even if it's something dumb Yeah, and this is just test to see how what they would do how far they would go And it started off really small like shit like that like warm water and vinegar. It's like oh you did that great In 1969 he started taking it further. One guy who left the cult in 1970 Said that he'd been present at one of the first poison tests

Uh-oh at a small gathering Jim Jones served lime Kool-Aid not flavorade He seemed the good stuff for for his private group. Yeah. Yeah. He toasted everyone They all had a drink then Jim Jones told him that it was poison But just to see how everybody would react then he'd watch everyone see okay that person freaks out that person takes it calmly That person doesn't believe me and thinks that they're just kidding and then he'd laugh and say like nope It was all just a test. I just wanted to see what you people would do and everyone go to bed have fun And this is my friend ashton kutcher. He came all the way from los angeles ashton tell them what it was like on the 70s show Where you got to take them down to the river

Um Now this is the seventh song about rivers that we will sing today That 70s show is the closest my hometown ever had a tv show to having a tv show based uh off of it It's called point place and i'm from stevens point. Wow, and it's wisconsin. That's and i'll mention me me bobeck once again Also from stevens point wisconsin from the drew carry show Jim jones would do these kool-aid tests and sometimes he'd do it with champagne Uh, but he'd do it again again and again over the years preparing everyone for that final Moment and it wasn't like that last moment everyone thought like oh, this is just another test

No, they knew it was real right like they looked around they saw everyone dying. I mean because there was a long line Well, uh, they saw all these things had gotten really serious by then they'd already fired weapons We'll get to that by them. They've already been militarized and it's A jones town was pretty intense. Oh, yeah, they knew it wasn't they knew it was real that time But by that time they got used to the idea right they've been grooming them here He's grooming him. He'd been doing that for almost 10 years by the time gianna came Wow, but even though jim jones was doing all this wacky shit people were still joining in droves But while things were going pretty fantastically for people's temple things weren't going so great in the jones household

It can't all be awesome. Okay. It's always like your career is going great. Your house is not going good I mean like there's always something and it's hard to keep a personal life going when you're a cult leader Now outside of marshal apple white whose whole cult seemed to be built So he could get the thought of fucking dudes out of his head Cult leaders across the board tend to be obsessed with sex on some level or another well apple white I don't think he ever got it out of his head there. They Cut off. No, no, no, I don't think he did. I don't think he did. He did cut his fucking penis off Yeah, I think he's done the forefront of his mind. Yeah, he did cut his dick and balls off

So he wouldn't think about dudes anymore just imagine being that angry at part of your body I haven't been upset at it, but It needs to be there. I have to have it. It's the only thing I can trust Well for some cults like children of god sex was the whole point. Yeah, they were gross. Yeah, good kiss. So you're right They were gross. Oh, how it was. It definitely was super Henry, I'm sorry. I don't have a callous soul like you do. I'll still say it was gross Yeah, everything turned around sex to a disgusting degree and all the members took part again to a disgusting degree For other cults it was more about gratifying the man up top and the man up top alone

And people's temple was definitely more of this variety And we all know that Jim Jones had always been a horny little devil Yeah, he has been. He is a naughty little pappy, isn't he? Hot daddy. You know what it is too about? The sexual impulse for me is like it's very much so it's almost like cult leaders Or even a more practical version of a serial killer where it's very similar to the Leonard Lake Charles-ing keeping a woman in a castle like keeping a woman in a uh in a Uh jail cell to do whatever or like how Jerry Brutus wanted to keep women in a cave

So we're gonna do whatever do they want for them, but they didn't have the work ethic To create an organization Where you can do just that where it's it's actually like an 11 year old's boy impulse Of being able to just like take clothes off of toys and shit. Mm-hmm different kind of 11 year olds You didn't do that take no i'm teenage mutant ninja turtles. I put clothes on them weapons Uh, but you didn't so you didn't have wrestlers. Yeah, but you never had any girls around so you didn't have any Barbies around No, we had some Barbies around You never stripped the clothes off the Barbies and kissed the breasts. Well, we didn't have that many Barbies around

No, I guess there wasn't a lot of girls. We had a uh, we did have a um a uh missionary couple stay with us They had a daughter they But we would play teenage mutant ninja turtles versus Barbies when you say missionary couple I just imagine they're always inside each other. No, they're not they were helping and they're just writing They're women's writing around like as a horse. I I understand it's a very common idea Well speaking of sex like that during sermons jim jones would casually just talk about how he'd bang marceline up to five times in a single night Such was the power of his virility Okay, but in reality their sex life was almost non-existent. Are you telling me a man is lying about goodies and bad?

Yeah, shocking weird see marceline through no fault of her own had a bad back Which by the late 60s had made sex impossible That's when jim jones took a preacher's daughter named carolin leighton as his lover Who is described in the road to jonesown as having had a quote? Grim pentecostal essence. Yes. Well, I want to marry her I love that He picked this lady because of her qualities. It is very similar to el ron hubbard with her It again same thing the reason why he picked marceline. It wasn't necessarily like she was the hottest of the group

Or she was the most willing. She was the one with the skills that he needed to back him up Yeah, I mean she didn't just replace marceline as a lover. She replaced him as Uh, what you know patty cartmell's son might call jim's go-to guy. All right go-to guy Yeah, because I think it's because jim knew that marceline didn't have the stones for what he actually wanted to do Because marceline she was a good woman. But you know what? I'm just going to throw this out there It also takes courage not to kill 900 people Well, that's what I mean like it's she didn't have the evil stones because there are good stones and there are ill Stones and what marceline had she had the good stones. You know like you're a doctor, aren't you?

I knew it No, you know like marceline. She don't got like you know like evil stones like marceline. She got like you know like good rocks Yeah, yeah, yo tell him how those stones work. Yeah, you know how it goes He's a doctor which means he goes around grabbing girls by the breast scene. He want a free mammogram Oh, I see I like you're deflecting that. Oh, this is how italians speak not not texas very interesting Well, marceline as far as like having the courage to stand up. She's not gonna say the stones again Now I gotta say the stones. I'm gonna say the courage. I'm gonna say the courage because I'm about to turn into something serious here

I'm sorry. I got a serious point to make here. All right. All right. You fuckers ready. All right. All right So, yeah, I mean Marceline she had the courage when the flavor aid was being passed out She had the courage to stand up and try to stop it. You know, she had to actually be restrained When they were giving it to the kids And we have evidence of it, you know, it's in the tape right so Uh, let's listen right now to jim jones Trying to calm her down

Mother mother mother mother mother please Mother please please please don't don't do this. Don't do this Get down your life with your child, but don't do this Oh god, you hear those, uh, babies screaming at that Again, I you have to remember. I always I you know, as we talk about the episode I we forget or I mean at least it's important to remember that how horrible it was there And that's how marceline reacted but carolin leighton. She helped stir the vat Good lord

This affair it started with marceline's full knowledge as well as with the knowledge of their whole family jim jones actually sat down their kids and told him that he and mommy Weren't having sexual relations anymore So he had to take carolin who you should all think of as a special friend to fill his needs Just because she is father's most special friends because Let me teach you this lesson. Imagine semen as a bunch of um prisoners in a side of a horrible wrinkled prisoner and that carolin is like this She's freeing them from jail all over her the beautiful vacation spot that is known as her breast

And that is a thing called a pearl necklace kids. It's not just jewelry Just cut to them just horrified faces poor kids Now as I said last episode I think of marceline as the first follower of jim jones And I think marceline a lot of the time became a test case for jim to see what he could get away with Also, it's a test case for jim jones because so he took We talk a lot about carolin leighton, but she had a husband named larry leighton who if he was a bird would be a cuckoo teal He um was the head his wife taken from him and then what he did was just be like, okay

What i'm gonna do though is I know you're upset. We're doing this for the temple. You seem you seem really upset I'm gonna give you a hotter wife So he chose another lady from the congregation that was hotter that he said was hotter He gave him to her and be like that's your new wife and then like six months later. He's like I'm gonna be taking that hot wife back Because now it's mine. Can't do that. Yes, that's not allowed. Yes, and larry leighton's just like All right. Well, they seem to be enjoying it. Whenever it is you do Horrible stuff happening well as far as carolin leighton went as

As really like his followers at large didn't know about the whole situation Um, but jim jones figured that if he could convince his wife that he needed to get laid to keep his special powers going Then he could convince his followers of anything. Yeah, can you imagine that? Can you imagine sitting your girlfriend down and being like This is for the good of the podcast I have to have my balls drained by many many people many different people like it's just even a horse I I it's just my it's my it's my burden actually. It's a thing that I wish I didn't have it right. He flipped it Yeah, all right

And as far as how he got carolin leighton to the situation jim sent patty cartmel to convince her patty told carolin That marceline was mentally and physically unfit and that jim in order to keep on being jim Needed to have a physical release And carolin had been chosen to give that to him and it's really sad because honestly patty Clayton straight up said I'll do it Right because they were had this meet it was a meeting because he did everything with his committee So they had the committee and he would meet and he would talk about how I need to fuck more I can't do this and patty was like

I'll do it and he's like God has a different plan for you Oh poor patty. Yeah poor patty man. Yeah, because he was like yeah god has a different plan for you All right, you my child shall be in charge of my fuck schedule. That's right. Hmm And she was never put on there herself. She should have put herself in the game She should have just written her name in there It's what everyone who goes in the production side. He was also an entertainer who just happens to be on screen a lot more

Well carolin she was told that she'd been chosen to give jim the release Carlin was the first to be told that but she was by no means the last jim would tell women that by having sex with him. They were supporting him supporting themselves supporting the cause and boosting their self-esteem all at the same time. Okay. Why do I feel that this is a bobby flay move? Pete bobby flay. I found out it's a little information on bobby flay. Good barbeque or not a great chef That's why he often does lose on beat bobby flay He makes good oils the chili oils are really good when he was selling a really good not famous for his cooking

And jim jones like he wasn't just sleeping with women This is a jones town survivor tim carter's recollection of a jim jones proposition. Uh-oh I had been in the temple for just a few months I was sent backstage in los angeles to To get something for somebody. I remember what and jones happened to be coming out of his room and he said hi Tim how you doing? How's it going? How do you like everything so far and oh I like it a lot and you know, it's really cool. I don't remember exactly and he reached up and

kind of padded the back of my neck and he said I'll fuck you in the ass if you want And I just kind of stambered uh No You know I know and he said well, you know if you ever want that that's That's okay. You know, he just let me know and we'll do that That it sounds like the story of every staffer who works for louis gohmert Which is a deep cut politically. It's a horrible horrible politician under texas

Honestly, it just sounds like jim jones is out is about to be in that wonderful film american beauty It's such a really good actor that takes a really good actor to pull it off kind of like a kevin space Like a really really good. Ah dang american beauty was a great movie. It was yeah. Yeah, it was fine I mean a little bit heavy on the paper bag floating nine cents, but it's the most beautiful thing i've ever seen And I still do that joke to the smay of my family every single time I see a plastic bag going on this Yep, you got to now jones didn't have sex with his male followers as much as he did the female But he did it enough where older followers gave advice to newcomers The road to jonestown quoted one follower is saying to a younger one

If you ask father to fuck you in the ass Take a douche Precious word from an old grandfather to a young man. It's called disgusting advice. I write a column every week for the Newspaper of the congregation. That's either an elder in jim jones's church or a grip who worked on the anti-dick show Talking of course about and straight up because um jim jones would get uh really mad if you got shit on his dick And that is true. Yeah But I mean if you got it on his dick, but that's what it is

You got it in his dick. If you're working on cars, you're gonna get greasy Just feels like why you seem mad at me. I didn't I told you going into this jim. It's been a rough weekend Anyway, you think that all this would translate into jones having a progressive view on homosexuality Oh sure, but true to form. It was anything but really this is another clip from that pbs documentary jim said that all of us were homosexuals Everyone except he was the only heterosexual on the planet and that um The women were all lesbians and the guys were all gay

And so anyone that showed any interest in sex was just compensating. He sounds like a Like a south park character. He's that the most juvenile thing I've ever heard in my entire life I will say this gay guys don't say that. You know what I mean? I'm the most heterosexual guy of all time That a guy is straight and you can tell he's straight because he says I'm the only straight one You can say that everybody else is gay and they're just forcing him Because that's really what it is is that he has all these followers Because it's the butthole runs. He's like they walk around with their buttholes completely open in a plank position

Just shuffling back and forth and their elbows and knees Just begging for it. They call it the vase walk. Oh my he reminds me of the uh, that shithead kid from uh, uh, world's greatest dad. Yes Oh, yeah What is wrong with you? I don't listen to heavy metal music. It's gay. Why it's gay So in the late 60s, jim jones wasn't much different than hundreds of thousands of spiritual leaders and politicians who had come before Yeah, I'm actually surprised by this uh anti-gay thing. I did not think that that would be with the unity with all this stuff He's very progressive on certain things because he is gay because he's at least by he's very much trying to fight it

No, I think he's very much It was kind of weird because uh One of his followers like who was gay and wanted to live in an open gay relationship jim jones was like No, no, no, you can't do that But what you can do is just go down to san francisco go to a bar and get fucked every once in a while. It's fine If you want, I can fuck you. It's fine, but we can't have it. We can't have it here in the community Wait, so you'll fuck me, but I can't have a husband. Can't have a husband So I think at this point like jim jones is like a mashup of like billy gram bill clinton with a little tiny

Sprinkle into charles man. So all right like just a little bit But around 1970 the secret ingredient that turned jim jones from just a personally shitty person Into a full-blown monster. Oh came on to the scene. What happened amphetamines? The world wasn't better after amphetamines came onto the scene And that's where we'll pick up next episode Oh, right. Oh, yeah, man. That's exactly what I want jim jones to have that's exactly what I want jim jones to have Just more energy. That's what I've always said. Well, you have to be you have to see it It makes you very productive. That's one thing about amphetamines. Well, I was reading a uh thing about uh math

They were talking about how crystal math is like one thing about it The reason why it's such a tricky drug is that when you first start doing it you feel incredible and you just start doing Like chores around the house. Yeah, and you're just like man I get so much shit done and I don't need to sleep and then eventually your feet your teeth starts falling out and you're having sex Jim jones style underneath the highway say begging saying i'm sorry if you got shit on your my on your dick Yeah, you know because you're looking for money Then you write a beautiful song under the bridge about your addiction and uh your anthony ketis and the red hot chili peppers You're rich. You're famous. Mm-hmm. I don't think that's how it works. I have no idea. I don't think so

No, please do not no math. Uh, that is no, how clean does your house have to be? That's what I always say Um, all right, everyone. Well, that's fascinating stuff part two This will be we got a couple more coming up here We got at least a couple more maybe three more god fascinating stuff. Yeah, I love this fucking I mean, obviously, of course, I love it. I love it. It's it's probably gonna end up being five parts All right. Yeah, because if we did five on jack the ripper Yeah, we got to do five on because each of these episodes like it's you know, like I'll write a huge script for it And we usually don't even get to the end of it because we're almost already at two hours here

It's amazing. We and we're not even on to the sunglasses yet. Yeah. Does he have the sunglasses? Amphetamines and sunglasses. It's all coming together now. Does it start to make sense? It's all making sense I get it now Would I would I like to put it for this episode though and honestly in jim jones in general Up to this point. It just shows the power of hard work And for me my horoscope for torus said that it's 2018 It's in the year of hard work and I believe that this is your I'm gonna start sowing the seeds for my own cult Because the retirement's not gonna last for us right and stop mark is gonna go down

So this is this is my this is my retirement plan and I'm gonna come out and say it So that none of you are confused when it goes down Okay, we're not gonna kill ourselves. We're not I promise when you get to keep all of your genitalia Oh, yeah, everybody fucks. Do we have to be a part of this? I'm not you'll be officers. I'm an officer special committee. You're gonna be a part of a special committee We'll talk about this off air. We're gonna be the the pc. We're gonna be the planning committee I don't want to be taken. You're just taking fucking shit out of jim jones's page book I want to be the guy in the big Lebowski who's just in the pool

But I want to know what that's called. You know what that's called recreational admiral and that's what you are Kissing congratulations. You're the admiral. What do I get to be? security I'd say security lieutenant I'm the recreational admiral so it sounds like it kind of sounds like I'm just doing all the work again No, no What's your good at marcus? It's really just about what utilizing everyone's history I have had this conversation in private many times you say marcus loves to work

If he doesn't have work to do then he just goes crazy. So you just need to give him more work Every time he says just put him to work Well, that's good. I'm sure you can keep people up to date On your cult here on all the shows on the last podcast network Um, let's uh, what if we we should plug and thank people. Thank you for the patreon. Oh one thing too We're going to talk about I want to open broach this there's been a lot of problems with our youtube page Fan videos and we have no clue what's happening. That's a no idea But apparently we we started talking to them and apparently they're trying to do a big

Sweep of people posting copyright material, but we're going to say right here. We love fan videos I don't give a fuck as far as I'm concerned. It's free advertising every single time you do something cool and with our name on it Like yeah, like we don't give a shit. So we're not actively working to fix it I mean, I feel like we're not changing. We're not we really aren't changing So if you see anything that's just like, oh, that doesn't seem in character with these dudes who we've known for Seven eight years on all series of different shows. Um, it's just not we would not do that. No, it were honestly It's a we are too lazy and drunk to get half of these things done Thank you all for creating the great content. We love the content. Of course we do. Yeah, this is this isn't us

Uh, we're not doing it and we're we're taking steps to to make sure that that this type of shit doesn't happen This is all youtube doing it on our behest even though we didn't fucking ask him to the same thing with the patreon stuff It's like, I don't know the world is just weird and everyone is coming up with ideas and they're all fucking with us Yeah, they're all bad. Yeah, every no upgrade has ever been good. No. No, absolutely We're just trying to make stupid podcasts. That's all we care about That's really all we get. It's the only we've no discernible talent. No, this is all we know how to do So please I promise you we love you all very much. We would not best with stuff like that. Yeah, and speaking of patreon. Thank you so much to everyone

Uh, that has given patreon.com slash last podcast on the left. We're gonna get to shout outs Yeah, well, I know we've been bad on shout outs. We got a big old envelope of them full But we're gonna get back to them soon Uh, but yeah, uh, thank y'all so much go and listen to all the other shows on last podcast network We got a ton of them over there go listen to my new music show milk and peppers You can find that on mix slide com slash marcus parks. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so excited for you Honestly, I'm so excited for you. The show seems like a lot of fun. It's great. KPS KPS Listen, you can listen live every tuesday on kpis.fm

1 to 3 p.m Can we can we announce that we're gonna bring that thing that back that we were doing for adult swim.com? Yes, so I believe that it will be we're definitely gonna be bringing the stream back. It's gonna be coming back soon I'm shooting pretty face right now. So once I'm off of pretty face We'll be able to do that season four also well for pretty face will be coming on sometime in october And check me out on crashing on hbo at 10 30 on sundays, which is now happening. There it is very cool So do that and then follow us on all of the uh These suicide machines the technically we need to fucking get off of but it's good for now. We need the numbers

Um for at henry loves you on twitter at henry loves you at marcus parks at ben kissle at instagram at dr Ben tasty at marcus parks at ben kissle the number one and follow us at last For lad posgan left and all your fucking last podcast speeds at lp on the left There it is and thanks all for for all your support in all of our endeavors as uh, we branch out a little bit as well So you guys are awesome, and it's great having people come with us. You know, it's wonderful. It's very very fun Um hail yourselves everyone hail satan again hail me Please and i'm a goose deletions