Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 304: Jonestown Part V - The Last Year

Episode Date: February 9, 2018

In this, the end of our Jonestown series, we cover the last year of Jonestown, from the myriad stressors that led Jim Jones to do what he did to November 18th, 1978 itself. 

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started Does anybody else feel like they could draw Jonestown from memory in their head now like I like I could do a Google Street 3d map of Jonestown like a really said Noah's Ark pamphlet Yeah, the water park in Wisconsin. I feel like I'm shuffling around Jonestown right now. Yeah, is that bad? Is that depression? It would be a horrible place to be a Google mapper Just the dude with the Google segue just waving Welcome to the last podcast on the left everyone

I am Ben Kissel as always stare at the face of Marcus Parks and then and Henry Zabrowski I have been sick for 15 days. I got re sick I Was sick and I still hadn't finished being sick and now I'm re sick I pinched a nerve in my shoulder drying my hair. It's a middle-aged Sometimes my ankles swell and I can't get my my special doctor socks up of my ankle Oh my god, we're we're getting there guys. We're getting to special socks. Oh, I already have a couple. Yeah All right, we got to continue on here with the Jonestown series. We're on to part five

Warning some of the audio that we're gonna play later on in the episode It's disturbing as you can imagine so just be forewarned and of course, we'll treat it with a lot of respect And things like that and not just continuing. This is the end of Jonestown It's not like a like a fun like dance number in no Was it nine weddings in a funeral for weddings in a funeral Nine weddings in a funeral. It's not one of those. You grant is not gonna come out and be like Like he's charming. It's very rough So people's temple grew for 27 years before Jim Jones arrived in Jonestown in August of

1977 in one year and three months Jim Jones would tear down everything he'd worked for this last chapter of our series is About that time in the end of it all honestly It's it's an incredible trip because Marcus and I were we're talking about the breath of Jonestown Over the phone and part of it's like really you start thinking about it It's like wow, he's been such a long time and we said so in the seas being super cult leader Patient which is what he should have been and he did great He was doing great for a long time and then it took a year For the mass suicide to happen and this year what we're gonna cover here is is very brutal and it got dark very very fast

Absolutely, it is the opposite of the future so bright. I got to wear shades Because in reality the future is very dark for the people at Jonestown and for Jim Jones himself But he's still more shades No, an important thing to know about Jonestown is that the people there have become quite used to Jim Jones as a constant presence Jonestown was rigged with a sound system complete with loudspeakers that were connected directly to a microphone in Jim Jones's Private cabin. This is I mean a podcasters dream I know that constant time to be able to tell everybody be like I thought the last Thor movie was was fine Also, I thought the last Jedi was pretty good. Also Phantom Thread was pretty good

Also get out was good, but it shouldn't have been nominated as a comedy for the Golden Globes Just for hours and hours Get out nominated as a comedy wasn't was it? Mm-hmm. It was That is news to me. This is they're very funny, but that was welcome to the newest segment called the news to me I bet kissle and that is but it's a horror movie. Yes, of course The drama they didn't know how to categorize it because they're stupid I had to go to a little side right here every time there's a good horror movie They're like no it wasn't it could be because it couldn't be good if it was a horror film

That's why everyone's like there's no good horror films. I'm gonna get out a frickin comedy. Yes horror is drama That's what people don't understand. Horrors just drama. It's just got monsters in it But this so remember though before the five meet my five months leading up, right? So they sent a bunch of people that are clear out the jungle and they said it during that time period in Jonestown It's like they were very peaceful. They were connected to the Lord They felt very like with it. They were in they were in commune with nature. They were out there They said that the the old people there was really hard work, but they were they were Feeling the rhythm of the jungle, which is what I think it's kind of fun. They were like

Rub in their life just playing with like lemurs and shit like they're taking macadamia nuts out of their hands, right? and then Jim Jones shows up and It immediately becomes a Jim Jones show and he is such an exacting Micro manager to use a pedantic term for him Right, he's crawled up their asses and then it's 24 hours of his face and his voice from then on It's like every single person who works in an office The manager is gone on vacation for a week trying to quit smoking in the Bahamas Everything works totally smooth in the office. Everything is finished on time and then as soon as he gets back

It's just more difficult when he's there. Yeah, that's exactly how people describe Jonestown now Sometimes on these loudspeakers, they'd play music like they play like earthwind and fire We look super fun or they'd play like Perry Como, which isn't as fun. It's relaxing It's relaxing, I guess But mostly these people would have to put up with long diet tribes from Jones himself And this was throughout an 11 hour work day Wow and when Jones didn't feel like talking or he was too busy or he was too fucked up on drugs Which he was a lot he pulled one of his old tapes out and play that just to keep the constant blather going

Good Lord, it's got to be like living with sin bad The only people I'll ever allow to complain about Millennials work ethic are the people of Jonestown Because that's crazy No, it is very it was a lot of work and it was backbreaking work and then you have to listen to him all day long Which is the cult thing, right? Which is the idea that he becomes your whole consciousness Yeah, yeah Well, the weird thing was those that when they were starting to kind of get towards the end Every once in a while, they turn off the speakers and just let him talk and he didn't notice

Like the fat kid from the movie heavyweights Was it heavyweights where he was never connected to the he was just talking into the microphone the whole time No, I think you're dumb wet hot American summer. Yes. Oh wet hot American summer. Yes. Oh that movie is great Yeah, yeah, if he was like too fucked up, they just like turn it off just be like silence Wow, thank Christ So at the end of the workday the people after listening to Jones speak for hours They'd all go to the pavilion to hear Jones speak some more. Oh my gosh And these meetings were where Jones truly sowed the seeds of paranoia and his people We listened on the last episode to a couple of these meetings to some of the punishment meetings

But that wasn't all it was it wasn't all punishment This isn't an example of Jones telling his people what direction America was heading because he had to keep them on their toes. It's like you think shit's bad here You ought to know what's going on back in America. All right. Now these tapes They're not always the best quality and there is an echo on this one, but I still think this is important to hear If you have any mistaken feelings to look back to America America

If you have any idea that America has anything to offer You need to Perhaps you need to hear the housing Director of that. I'd when I'd prophesied I Told them the end had come from minorities. I'm just thinking of it Spontaneously, so I don't know what I'll find it find it off hand and I'd quote it just worth a word He sent me a letter And

Saying he said I hate to say I've ever jones that all you said about what was going to happen to minorities in America is taking place before It does sound like an audio sample from a butthole surfers song Yeah, a little bit it also sounds like if Lou Gehrig really went a different direction With his final speech there Yankee Stadium But he would sit on stage

So if you've seen like the movie the sacrament they do a really good job of setting up the the actual what the space look like It was like an elevated platform that sat in bunch of loose chairs and tables of people would stand and stare at him and behind him He'd have this big sign that says those that Forget the past or doomed to repeat it. It's something like that. I don't remember the past are doomed to Condemned to be there with so which is interesting I don't it was a misquote in the first place even if we are misquoting it. It was he misquoted it as well We're doing a double misquote I'm pretty sure you cannot miss this quote

You can't but he would go up in there and he just pick up the newspaper Hmm, and he'd start start doing bits like he is like Dave Chappelle Like he's just doing his extra hours where he is interpreting the news for everyone every single day at the end of the day And it sounds trippy as fuck. Yeah, it sort of sounds like if Lenny Bruce met Marlon Brando from What was that horrible movie that he was in where he was covered all white the island of dr. Moro? Oh? Marlon brando from the island of dr. Moro meets Lenny Bruce and the entire time the Wayne from the flaming lips is playing bass Also, it gets these it marks the slow descent of when Jim Jones begins to sound like droopy dog

Oh, you will see in the later in the day when we play that some of the more horrible tapes Maybe able to bring a smile to your face to imagine. It's droopy dog. We got to get through it somehow Now you might think that people would try to verify these claims with their friends and relatives back home after all since black people were the Majority in Jonestown their friends and family would probably have heard something about shit like this going on because Jim Jones was telling them They're getting rounded up and put in a concentration camps and the KKK is taking over towns in America But all male going out was censored and all male coming in was opened up in red Anything that went against Jones's narrative either coming in or going out wasn't allowed And that's if people even had the nerve to ask

In fact, most letters were filled with outright lies meant to soothe worries in the United States When family members whose loved ones had gone to Jonestown got together and compared notes They found that many of their daughters had all claimed to be engaged to Dr. Larry shacked Fulfilling the age old my daughter is marrying a dr. Dream Meanwhile, it's dr. Larry shacked who looks like riffraff from What's his spud from Rocky our picture show? He's got those like long blonde hairs on either side of his head. He's fucking balled up top But he's walk around me. Hey, is that so you guys are dating old Dr. Jack, right?

Right. I mean, I know it's fake but on paper. It's as good as if you're dating me You're my girlfriend. You're my girlfriend. You're my girlfriend. You're my boyfriend. I will not physically touch you I'm not allowed But but on paper Sounds like Donald Trump's doctor People in the US they weren't buying that line of horseshit or any other so they formed a coalition called concerned relatives Oh my god, it sounds like a basketball team from Southern Florida The Boca Raton concerned relatives, but they did a very good job. These are the ones that essentially brought down Jonestown

Yeah, their express purposes were to rescue their family members and hopefully take down Jim Jones in the process These people were joined by Gray stone who'd begun to turn up the heat in the custody battle over her son John Victor aka Jon Jon who by this time was being referred to as the child god in Jonestown Which gave the fight for his custody even more groovy toss. All right Then Jones was faced with his highest profile defection yet long-time lawyer Tim Stone Who had finally gotten tired of Jim Jones's shit after Jim accused him of being a CIA double agent? Oh, that's what got him mad Was that after all of this bullshit after all of this bullshit?

He got mad because Jim Jones decided to paint him as a fake villain with Tim Stone's knowledge Within the cult but what we're finding out here is that I mean number one Tim Stone was never really happy with the fact that Jim Jones fucked his wife and they had a kid. Yeah, he was never he signed that affidavit Didn't quit get over that one, huh? No, not that little hurdle there It seemed to always come up especially when you watch your fat weird little boy being called the child god And you're just standing there just being like You know, I made him I wish I could I wish I could have made him

I wish I'd given a shot to make him but he got so mad that he went back to gray stone So he would go on these trips for Jim Jones like doing various coordinating things And he started taking more and more time to do his own bullshit And so he went to grace and said listen, I know this is a problem We got to go get John John out and they joined forces and Tim Stone being the super fucking aggressive lawyer that he was Which made of such a useful tool for the people's temple has now make it made him at like the only real true Enemy that Jim Jones can't handle. Yeah, okay So in response to Tim's defection Jim Jones, I mean, he's going against this high powered extremely aggressive lawyer

This guy was an assistant DA in San Francisco. He's not fucking around, but the best Jim Jones could do was like He subscribed to gay porn magazines and Stone's name and had him sent to his address What is going on? Yeah, he released an affidavit saying that Stone had made fun of the Guyanese Prime Minister I mean, he did he does have big feet Brought a long thing. They're like, okay guys. How do we wait? How do we wait? I mean he's Prime Minister. He's got big feet. Yeah, okay He got calm feet. Yeah, so write it write it down. Write that down. That's a good rose. That's a good win

Even I mean he's joking, but he did that and kind of around about sort of way Jim Jones got him all together all the people and had them write essays about how they would kill Tim Stone and then He had him read it aloud during meetings. Well, that's kind of fun Everybody together with an activity. Yeah, not the worst of all the activities they had to do there as opposed But when King God Jones talked to his people about Tim Stone He'd never say that stone and by extension anyone else could ever hurt Tim Jones It was all about what stone was doing to them to people's temple. Here's an example I could kill him I could really kill him literally kill him

He's a son of a bitch to do what he did to me to this people to do what he did I don't give a goddamn to me because it's you can't hurt me. I wish it was just me and him goddamn his ass I did I drive him crazy But I've got the watch every move I take because it could hurt a Jean Brown or Leona back there or a guy young or a whole host of other people Lots of people back there at Alice that need a chance of Dennis that need a chance on down the line of Louie Davis on I'd get him tonight. Oh I've got I got the man. I'll get him all I gotta do say the word go I

Love those people too much. It's not worth it. His white ass in worth it. Let him live Yeah, but they only want one little catch to that If ever gets in a court of rule law, he can hurt you more So dad's always moving back and forth Like the pendulum Wondering about it. It's not an easy decision. I am saying pendulum Yeah, it is interesting. You can see him make shit up as he goes Yeah, right you could see him do the thing where you go. I've got a better now

I'm gonna go get him right now if I go get if I want to he's right over there. Can you can't see him? He's just like spider-man. That's why I wear these sunglasses because I can see invisible spider-man and you better watch because I've got nine more Invisible spider-man all over this compound Yeah, he sounds like Harry. Carrie fuck Charles Manson or something. It's very weird Well, you hear a lot and I mean that was a minute long clip and you hear a lot of Jim Jones's Tactics in that minute long clip. He's calling out people personally. He's doing that politician Politician thing he's frightening them frightening them with one hand and he's bringing them closer with the other and he's also keeping them off balance He's not quite making a decision

He's saying like well, I could get him if I wanted to and he's saying like I could kill him And he but then he's also saying like but there's only one problem with that What if he gets into a court of law, but the thing you just said you'd kill him right if you kill him He can't get into a court of law. Well mark as you mentioned how he couldn't take him to court if he was dead But now I'm thinking about a great new movie ghost court Which could we could we could have that's a really good Litigation for ghosts. Yeah, that's kind of fun. It's like night court But with ghosts with ghosts. Yeah

No, it was not all bad days in Jonestown Fielding McGee this guy whoo Fielding McGee You had a conversation you had a two-hour conversation with him, which is great He what is the Institute that he's the head of the Jonestown is the guy He's that he is the principal researcher for the Jonestown Institute, which is it is an achievement of research this guy He has been transcribing these tapes these Jonestown tapes for decades now He's been going through and transcribing him

He sounds like it you went and I listened to the interview that you guys did and I could not have heard more nerd kissing In my life the two of them just so interested. They're so excited to talk to each other and Fielding could just name off tapes. I mean it's like. Oh, yeah, that's the tape from May 15th 1974 and it's just like it's crazy his knowledge and he Shed a lot of light. Yeah on the story. It's like when it's like when Tori Spellian's character from save by the bell dated screech I do remember that but yeah, I mean he shed a lot of light especially on the last days and he Pointed me towards like a lot of really great resources to really try to piece together the timeline of what really happened here and He actually gave me a little tip on a story when I asked him

What about the good times? Okay, you know where they're good times in Jonestown and this is something that especially Henry was interested in Yeah, yeah, what what were the good times in Jonestown and Fielding was game night like And In Fielding, he told me there were good times. There were babies being born kids were playing all the time The kids were happy. There was genuine love there and that was positive laughter, too You know, it's not just the cruel shit that we heard on the snake tape that apparently is you know That was and not a regular thing, right? You know, there were people here who very much loved each other and as an example Fielding pointing me towards this story called Ruth's teeth

That was recounted by Stephen Jones. Jim Jones's son In this story Stephen wrote about the time he helped a girl named Ruth Fish her fake teeth out of a latrine after they'd been popped out by a violet spray of vomit Frequent vomiting being a fact of life in Jonestown. This was the good time. This is a good time No, a guy named Ronnie rigged a harness and was lowered down into a 15 foot deep waste pit full of socialist scat What does that sound more disgusting than capitalists do the Republican runs the Republican I will say that the Republican runs are thicker. A socialist scat is a little bit more watery

All right, this guy Ronnie working with Stephen He managed to swing down and he plucked the teeth that rested on a pile of goo Oh for this girl, you know, and they said they were laughing the whole time Just like can you admit look at what the ridiculous shit? We're doing like this is what we're doing down here It's like a deleted scene from the animated movie the rest yours The point of this story is that these people would do anything for each other and they would you know And it's sweet in that way that these people would do absolutely anything for each other But these were the good times, you know, like it was a hard hard life

Yeah, no and some didn't mind it and some people loved it some people like took to it Yeah, they're saying like it's weird how like these people from Indiana like that was a part of the five months before right There were people like I'm a jungle person. Yeah, I thought I was a Gary Indiana person, right? But in fact, I love palm fronds. I love bugs. I love sweat all over every single crease of my body And they they love it. Yeah, they absolutely many people did not I could see I watched Planet Earth 2 Last night, right? Yeah, it's great. It's a little Jones townie there to the forest Well, the people who didn't love it Jones made it very difficult for them to leave. Oh, first of all, he had all their passports all their money and all their valuables

Some even tried leaving regardless just going out into the jungle and seeing what the fuck would happen because they knew there was a Railroad not too far away a few miles out if they got to the railroad Then maybe someone would pick them up. Maybe they could hitch on a train But a lot of times these people were brought back quote-unquote for their own good Like in fact like two teens who tried to escape through the jungle They were caught they were brought back and they had to wear leg irons for weeks I don't really understand how they don't have things like There's certain foods. They don't have there's stuff that they can't get out on the the like they can't get toilet lids

Right, they can get leg irons. Yeah, that's interesting, huh? It's like very difficult to find leg irons if you don't have access to an eBay I don't even think you can you even get them on eBay? I don't even know. Oh, yeah, you can get them on eBay Yeah And Jones was also just casually mentioning in meetings like for example when he was talking about Tim stone The people who betrayed him should be killed. What was what was that last part Jim? And he said be killed I say it simply said my you see

Be killed as soon as possible and it's waving a fucking gun around which is there He's just throwing this shit like an out there like it's casual Yeah, honestly, he sounds like a dude running for the Alabama Senate Waving a gun be like they should be killed Yeah, and that's not something that we've really mentioned is that Jones had a gun on him a lot All right, big big 357 Magnum and he's sometimes just kind of twirling around during meetings and one night He was speaking in a meeting. It was like 1 a.m. These people have worked 11 hours He'd been speaking for hours upon hours and some people were falling asleep

So he just fired the fucking gun into the air and said y'all you awake now that'll work ready to listen to me now Mm-hmm I had a history teacher that had a big stick he had this big bamboo stick that used to keep next to his desk And if somebody fell asleep in class he'd smash the the stick down on the desk and wake him up Was your history teacher saboo from ECW? Yes, he was mr. Saboo Dr. Saboo Well Jones was casually mentioning that he would kill anyone who betrayed him and of course

Leaving was a betrayal right and you know a lot of the rank and file they didn't give a shit who left They were saying like you know what if they want to leave let them leave more food for them right food for us We love it here these people who don't want to stay here. They're nothing but trouble We're spending so much time Punishing them and trying to get them to love it here. Let them go by the way update on nothing but trouble Uh, it's at 5% and rotten tomatoes. It's actually gone down. I think it's because I don't know I think it's because you're driving people to watch it and they are accurately giving it the score of tomato At rotten

No, I think we are actively making the rotten tomato score although Jackie Zabrowski from page seven I don't believe she'll need to get that tattoo Which she has been entertained for a long time. So very good Well for most of these people they could have lost two 300 people and they wouldn't have cared Whittle it down to the true believers, but for Jones Even one was too many as we'll see So when the legal pressure from the custody battle finally made its way down the Guyana Jones stepped things up taking his old assassination trick to the next level with a full fledged fake invasion

And if it wasn't so fucking horrible, it would have been kind of fun because think about this It's again, you got a couple assault rifles. You got a bunch of people out in jungle compound. Anyway, they are kind of itching for some action I mean, I maybe would it'd be kind of fun to walk around with like like little like the black marks of the camouflage on my face Jumping out of things been like got your jungle cat Got your jungle monkey. It's like attacking things that you're like that would be fun. Yeah, it wasn't like that They're just kind of wargaming. Yeah, they're kind of wargaming, but they think it's real And I think for a lot of these people I think Henry hits on a good point there Is that I think for a lot of these people like

Half of this is the sense of adventure. Right, you know, it's adventure that they're in the jungle and that they're from Indiana They're from Indiana This is exciting shit. Yeah, you're down in the jungle You don't know what's going on. You hear these kind of half convoluted stories from your your pastor your father now Who you now believe they may be touched by god He is there telling you all of these truths about how america's turning into a concentration camp like Fucking warehouse. That is just what's happening. And so in Guyana Jim jones on the inside. They don't really know about the custody battle

They have been asking like there's some kind of leaks of information here and there But they don't really know how serious is getting because tim and graystone They're constantly filing these court hearings for Jim jones to have to show up at in the states And then he's not so that the legal pressure is mounting and mounting. So one day he calls one of his normal meetings And then shit just goes apeshit. Yeah, because jones have been ordered to appear in a guineas court Okay, because up to this point it had all just been american courts, but now it had gotten all the way down to guiana So jones called up the deputy prime minister tolamy reid to see if he could straighten it out because jones jim jones and uh

Guyana jones had become quite a pain in the ass to guiana. He still had political clout though, huh? I mean, he was able because he had political clout in america Uh, so it translated down to guiana, but reid was unavailable He was in the united states on business and that's a part of it would made him kind of crazy because first of all It's like why is the united states? Is he researching on me because it all has to be about jim jones? Also, he used to have access to the prime minister himself But now he's been kind of like downgraded to just talking to the deputy prime minister

Which is who he should have been talking to anyway And so jim jones also believes that there's now an inner conspiracy in the guineas court system coming to get him And also guineas court would be a great sister show to ghost court Like I honestly think that would also be a very fun night court ghost court guineas court would all be would be a lot of fun Yeah, yeah, I mean jim jones. I mean a rational person would have thought it's like, okay This guy is a high ranking government official He's probably in the united states on business that has nothing to do with me But jones could not imagine these people to be going to america for any reason other than jones town

Okay, he figured in his mind in his paranoid mind that either Reed had gone to the us to collude with the united states government Or he'd been taken prisoner in a united states bat coup. Oh, yeah, we always want the deputy prime minister of guiana That's a big guess. We gotta get it Yeah, but it didn't matter which one because the reason behind either was singular jones town, right? And so jones called out the troops to make things real for settlers jones brought out the false flag And had his son shoot in his direction from the tree line God that's gotta be so fun as the sun is you get to go shoot the guns

It's like finally they have all these guns that they're not supposed to use Because technically their code name for them is bibles. That's what they say. That's what they call them on the ham radio And so they've got these crates full of quote-unquote Bibles that you finally get to go play with and so he's like He doesn't go out there and start the revolution And so he runs out into the jungle and starts shooting at the shooting at the compound And then he's like fuck it. All right guys. We got it. We got it. We're we're mobilizing So either his son is a horrible shot or a great one. He's a great one

And furthermore jones didn't tell his private guard that his son was taken the shot at him So when his son took the shot the guard started firing in jim jones jr's direction So he could have very easily been killed here. Well, if they were the animated bullets from who frame drager rabbit That's kind of fun. That's the third time you've ever brought that up on this show That is a reference that I don't understand why it is that is logged in your brain. I love that movie So do I jessica rabbit So for the next six days jones town was under siege as far as they knew Jones said that the guineas troops working with the team of mercenaries were on their way at that moment to take away

John victor now remember this so with this so this is what they've what's happened here the red guard Which is their their group right the guys that are like the security team has grabbed all the ak 47s that they have hidden most of people most of the people in the group didn't even know that they had all of a sudden Guns are guns are everywhere. They are being marched in military formations in front of and around the the pavilion And on the grounds of the entire jones town compound How many no one is allowed to see how many guns do they have not as many as you'd think Okay, not picturing like everyone is loaded

It's like 25 guns. Yeah, okay 25 to 30 guns. Yeah, it's not branched avidian. Oh, okay. All right now Yes, it's just I'd say sick short of a um stockpile Like tell me a stockpile honestly a stockpile officially is a hundred. Uh-huh. Yeah, sure. Would you call that legally? Maybe I think this is more a texas bakers dozen of guns. Yeah Yes, a smattering is sick. So that would call a smattering of guns They had like a standard pile of guns a pile of guns a large collection. Okay. Yeah

And so do you have to remember everybody's running in military formations and they're being kept up Oh, no one is allowed to go to sleep. This is everyone's on full alert. Yeah And then nothing happened for two days After nothing happened jones told his people that they were all gonna go to cuba Because he just made shit up everybody's staring at him everyone's been up for two full days. He finally says like Okay, remember y'all. There's a there's a boat that won't take us all to cuba And he's made this shit up saying we have to go to the port katuma And there will be a boat waiting for us that's going to take us to our communist homeland

Yeah, so he mobilizes all these old people in the middle of the night to march through the jungle to port katuma Which is like a two to three mile hike Through solid jungle. I think it was longer than that. Good lord. I think it was more like five to ten Uh, but yeah, he's improvising because he has to do something reasonable is the idea that they could go that they could go to cuba I mean somewhat reasonable in that he's telling people that cuba is a reasonable idea They think but it's not it's not okay. He was just there. I watched a triple d and guy. He was there. It looked nice Yeah, so he's improvising. He's like, all right We're going to cuba everyone get there and he takes him to port katuma and he actually starts loading them up

On to the boat But then an old lady fell and broke her hip And the whole thing was called off. They're like, all right everybody back everyone back to jones town Which you know sometimes jones, you know, he was a master improviser, but just sometimes it just didn't work No kid. I just I wish we could get across because when I first read it in the road to jones town again If you are really interested in this subject There's stuff that we're even kind of glossing over that's in road to jones town Also, raven's a fun read and if you go into the jones town institute

You're going to see a lot of Even more what road to jones town kind of even that even glossed over but a part of what this A part of this night was the true panic of it. These people were whipped up into a frenzy This trek across the jungle was a panicked Like half run people were running and really really frightened thinking that people were going to shoot at them from the jungle They had people with guns right next to them. So a part of this was like He just started this chain reaction where he was like, okay, everybody we're going to the port And everyone just ran out into the jungle and it became

Very scary chaos. Is it fair to say the age the average age of the people running would be the same people Of the average age running after like neil diamond now If they saw him like performing in dollywood or something they would if I went to a soup plantation with a gun And try to get all those guys going that's the same equivalent. It's like a 55 to 75 Well, well jones town was in thirds. It was a third elderly third adults and the third children So it was um all kinds all kinds of people Uh tell him that yeah, and jones have been telling him for days like they're right out there They're at the tree line

They are waiting for you out there and all of a sudden he's saying go out there and you could be killed at any minute But they got back to jones town nothing happened And jones he gets on the ham radio with marsil with marcelin and by the way, it is marcelin not marcelina I learned that from fielding that you know, it's marcelin. All right But he's on the ham radio with marcelin back in the u.s Because she's back there still trying to take care of people's temple business And he told her what he thought was going on and he also told her we're all prepared to die We're gonna fucking it's it's time revolutionary suicide is gonna happen and marcelin knew that this was a threat to take seriously

So she along with a few other people's temple members hustled their asses off and managed to locate the deputy prime minister of Guyana in the whole of america and found him Coincidentally in indiana indiana He's the music man The reed got on the ham with jones and assured him that nobody was coming And after the assurance jones called everyone back to the pavilion and told him we won That's it

I didn't know that there was an option to win. They're just saying everything. Oh, wow. Congrats So old lady. I mean while she's covered in bug bites and shit. Yeah broken hip. He didn't tell him that what they'd won He didn't tell him how they want it. He just said we won Okay, all the people knew and all they cared about was that the six-day siege as they started calling it was finally over I'm gonna do that every time the nicks lose. I'm just gonna say we won. We won Because you feel so much better that way. This is my question marcelin Marcelin was a part of the idea She was like a party to the idea that everyone's going to kill themselves, right?

Or was she kind of like playing along a little bit and because she seemed to always kind of fight The the final roundup like every single time there was one of these The we're now going to find out it's called the white knights But every time there's one of these she's kind of the one that says like no no no no no We're not really going to go all the way. Well, uh the way uh fielding the gi put it to me was uh that This whole thing was a runaway train and marcelin was in the engine room tinkering with the carburetor You know, she's she was trying scotty. Yeah

So you're saying she's scotty of jones. I'm not a star truck. No. I'm not saying she's scotty Essentially what it is is that look marcelin was trying to do what she could but it was too big. It was too much You know, there was weight. There was way too much to do and way too much to stop Uh, and she just she didn't have the power the power had been taken away from her Years before and given to carolin leighton. It sounds like it might be a runaway train on a one-way track And jump spin wheels on a one-way Feels like we should be get

That's honestly a really good soundtrack. Yeah I love the rest of the episode we began the episode as old men and we've meddled the episode as old men We are just representatives of the lithium generation And I think that's important. We're holding the line But the beginning of all this shit the beginning of the six night siege when jones called his people to the pavilion That was the first of what came to me known as the white knights. All right, and that's night's nigh ght White knights were emergency meetings something jones called when there was a defector or there was a problem back home Or whenever he felt like he just had something important to say. Oh, I feel like that happened a lot

It did well white knights were like the elevated one. He always had He always had important things to say marcus So he was always talking late at night. They always had the night sessions white knights But it became uh, I mean again, we're joking around as always. Uh, we're a bit of jokers But the serious Quality of the white knights is something we have to get across too. Yeah, where it's like this was scary shit This the six day siege should became to known was six days of pure panic That drove people to the edge of pure exhaustion like a part of what's happening here is that people are so tired and so

Brainwashed and upset that they don't really know what they're doing. They're kind of moving automatically They're getting guns put in their hands. They're getting pushed towards the jungle They're kind of running back and forth like they're like in these weird military Snare, so these these white knights every single time what happened like they say it felt like you could feel the feeling in the whole The whole compound kind of wash over that osis like where it's like when a comedian does been like Now on a serious note. That's like what jim jones was doing. Yeah, so it's my favorite part of every comedian set I always love a comedians lesson Comedians are philosophers and they are very important and they're the ones that really they're role models

And I think it's I think they're too important to be we should be protected by the government I agree and why isn't the plane? Why isn't the whole plane man on the black box? Yeah The whole plane the black box. Yeah, and eventually these white knights they would take on a Much darker purpose than just scaring people now white knight was not the first name It was developed through the jim jones method, which was just keep saying shit until something sticks The first name was omegas. Oh, but that signified an end. Okay, which went against jones's whole reincarnation bullshit Then he tried alphas, but that didn't have the same pizzazz that same element of danger because like omegas

That sounds tough. Yeah, it's kind of fun. It's kind of alpha, but alphas very 4chan Yeah Next was black knight much scarier, but he was worried about the racial connotations in that Okay, but he finally got it with white knight Which sounded mysterious foreboding and again had that little racial edge to it Suddenly referencing the race of the people who are coming to get them It also kind of sounds like one of those things that that party monster guy would go to in the village in like 1994 Michael aleg. Yes. He's doing fine now. He's doing great. He's out. He's doing great. Yeah

Well white knights had the explicit purposes of terrifying members and keeping them constantly off balance The point was to mentally exhaust people to the point of ultimate surrender These people never knew which white knight would be their last because jones always made sure they knew the end could come At any moment in one meeting and who knows if this is accurate because jones just spouted bullshit Jones said that these people had gone through 84 white knights together over the course of a year Can you imagine that multiple times a week these people are doing this? Now jones even made them write essays with titles like what I would do if this was the last white knight These people obsessed over it and they were terrified of it. I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd probably ask becky to dance with me

Because I never had a chance to dance with becky All right. No, that's enough. That's enough tom. You asked me what I would do if this was the last white knight Oh, I love singing tom In part why they were so terrified of them was because the first one lasted as we said six days That's six days of constant terror all because jones's ego could not imagine the guy in his government doing anything That didn't have to do with jones town Can I ask a question? How many of these things do you think came out of a genuine concern that there was a real conspiracy going on or was it about

Jim jones essentially needing activity. I think this may be a 50-50 slice here between him being truly paranoid and driving these people And I do think at some point he does believe the thoughts that come into his head that he thinks that he's channeling shit But there's also a part of me thinks that he just likes the action Yeah, and he likes getting everybody revved up because it makes him it basically gets him horny for how much power he is Yeah, how much of his own bullshit is he taking seriously? Uh, it's hard to know. I mean, that's that's one of the things that it's impossible to know How much he was actually taken seriously we can guess but Fielding McGee said that he thought that he was taking himself pretty seriously until brazil. Oh until he failed over there

Okay, well taking him sir taking himself seriously as in he was a christian I believe that like that jim jones did believe in everything and that and we talked about that in The first or second episode as well that you know brazil was the turning point for jim jones But at this point and another thing that McGee said is that like, you know Every time you talk about jones town you're faced with 10 more existential questions that will never be answered Uh, it's just such a gigantic mystery. Yeah, why do you park? On a driveway, but you drive on a parkway. Yeah yeah

The guyanese they weren't the only government officials in georgetown to have to deal with jim jones airport If nothing sticks to teflon Why do they cover the how do they get it to stick to the teflon? How do you know if yogurt's gone bad? Oh, that's the best comedian of all time. What the heck? What was his name again? Mike Warnke? Mike Warnke? Can you hear me airport? No, it's not just the guyanese the russian ambassador was also besieged with calls from people's temple Now the russians gave the people's temple a little attention because they were fellow communists They sent a russian reporter, but the only question the reporter asked was where are all the tv's?

The so this is so what happened is that jim jones was looking for it Ridiculous because he also assumes because it's an american compound because it's like Let's wait. Oh good your tv's on your jean jackets Everyone knows the jean the jacket and the danum oliva here. I turned italian A part of um what he did jim jones was obviously looking for like what we talk about with every cult leader He needs what's the next chapter? What's the next thing we're gonna do? So he was looking for possible socialist asylum in whatever country that he could he could reach So he started sending letters to north korea

He sent letters to china the chinese embassy the north korean embassy in uh in gyana He sent it to and all of them were like, um cool nothing. Okay. No, thank you Like they were all like as soon as they got the letter they just barely respond They sent like a form response to being like thank you for your interest in the communist party We we don't need you but the russians were down But I think the russians did it just to make fun of us The russians like all of this shit was putin too where it's like all of stuff with the election I think it's just because they think it's hilarious to fuck with us

Yeah, because he showed up and they literally like they went all the way down to jonestown with no Like this is after the white night. It already happened. They have no fucking intention of taking them But the guy went and did the full inspection. He did the full he did the full thing. He walked around He looked at jonestown, but the only thing he said was Jonestown is more socialist than us. We should be taking lessons from you Neither my compatriots are leaving now because um display sucks balls and I've lived in russia Okay, see you soon I do want to update everyone on my gamecube experience regarding freedom fighters 2004

I have defeated it. So I did beat the russians in my own right. I'm playing a game I'm a gamer now on game. Oh good. Oh good. But really like russia. It was it was a false hope You know that jim jim's knew russia was never gonna take him He just used it as something for people to cling to when things look grim and man You know shit is not going well when the soviet union is your happy place I don't know russia's kind of fun. They're like they have footage of like drafts driving taxis and shit You know like and and ak-47s being used to cook eggs. It's like a fun place If you want to have a great youtube whole experience russian, um, uh

Dash cam videos. Yes the the amount of rage that they drive with I don't even think they have gas in those cars It is simply hate The state department was also getting involved but in a very half-ass capacity They sent representatives to see if people were doing okay, but all they got were stock. We're doing great Everyone loves it here type of answers People's temple. They actually had public rehearsals for when people came investigating Whether it be the state department or reporters with the questions being asked by jones himself and what he called his reporter voice Tell me do you put people in boxes here and bear them in boxes?

Have you ever ever ever buried anybody in boxes? No, um I'd look more shocked. I'd look more shocked than that I know we haven't you know, I say why hell. No our sake not, huh? I'd say what hell. No You somebody me what's what what prompted that question say some of these blot new stories Say the first place saying how you gonna put somebody even though we got ideal temperature 76 degrees with trade wind

How are you gonna put somebody in the ground under the earth in a box and keep my life? That's silly man. That's crazy It'll make no sense You could put nobody in a box under the ground like Debbie live you can't do that. You couldn't put nobody underground in a coffin Shit, I'm surprised these fools print this shit anybody with the right mind ought to see through it Okay, I've stamped on you long enough Now first of all that's a go

Just blank slate if you need to get out of anything the standard response has got to be what what hell no Like you just say that's it. That's how you know That's how you know for a fact That you don't believe in what they just said what hell no that was stone cold Steve Austin's catchphrase when he ran out of ideas But that's no fault of his own. He had a lot of good ideas Um, but a another thing to remember here is think about what he just said He is coaching them to tell reporters how insane and horrible It is the idea that someone would put put somebody in a box

And you would torture them and yell them outside of this box and put it on the ground how insane There's no way you have that but in but in reality they did do that Yeah, they did they did do that So he is this is the kind of control he has is that he is telling you to tell everybody how insane the idea Is of the thing that you already did And it's the cognitive dissonance is insane right like what you do you're putting them in a whole other world like that with somebody else It's like you're compartmentalizing their whole reality Now the state department said one of the reasons why they never pushed too hard was because they didn't want to impede on the religious freedom of the settlers

Okay, but I don't think there's really a lot of truth to that Ironically, I think the reason why they didn't push was because the government didn't want to deal with a bunch of san francisco hippies living out in the jungle And they just hoped it would all work itself out. It could have been. I mean, that's a logistical nightmare for them also Right, what would that look like? I mean lawyers have to be brought in, you know, there's all kinds of legal ramifications here like constitutional ramifications here. Well, you can kind of almost see the line of thought about how maybe this is even Influenced later on why they dealt with Waco the way they did where it's like essentially they did a hands-off policy with this one and then 900 people died And they just kind of assumed the jungle will handle everything and they were afraid of the legal ramifications

But then with Waco, Waco was a total fuck-up too But it was the opposite side of the fuck-up where it's like this is just them trying to figure out what to do and they don't They don't want to handle this shit. Yeah, I think they actually got it right with the with that old Bundy clan Remember that one? Was it in Oregon? In Oregon, yeah Yeah, I mean they just kind of waited them out and I think the most were in jail now I mean Jonestown was too soft and Waco was too hard Uh, they went way far in the other direction Uh, because I mean the CIA was not after Jim Jones because the CIA usually didn't waste time with failures

I mean they might have paid attention had Jones reached national status and actually started changing shit like what happened with Martin Luther King But I seriously doubt the government gave even the tiniest fuck about some raven asshole shouting the boonies in South America Okay, do you think they would have cared if he would have stayed in America? Maybe. Yes. Yeah Yeah, I mean well things were mounting in America. So you had the that big article in San Francisco Hey came out and now in America. That's a part of what's happening here Is that the pressure from America is really really increasing? Okay, there's more and more people looking into the cult the cult had a Uh, it was becoming kind of like the topic of the day

In America of people obsessed with people's temple Yeah, and people's temple did have government agencies after them, but they weren't anywhere near as sexy as cia agents hiding in the jungle It was like this so that's not that sexy. You know The problem is that in movies cia Cia agents are gerard butler and jillian anderson, but in reality cia agents are are me. Yeah I am I look like a cia agent. It's kind of fun. I kind of like to To join them there to see what it's like on the inside. They're the most boring people you could possibly imagine They're not allowed to talk to you. Yeah. Yeah, but the people that were actually after people's temples

It's like the social security office that we're delivering the checks to all the old people And customs checking their supplies and the FCC getting on their ass about using the ham radio for business Because you're only supposed to use the ham radio for fun. Oh, that is it That is it. That is the rules kids. So you better be having fun You're using a ham radio. You better be giggling and giving nicknames to truck drivers. What if I love my job? My dad's truck driver nickname was be kraut by the way It's really cute. It's really cute and these were serious problems You know, it's threatened in their money and their supplies and their communications

But the deep state it was not It was postal service workers. Yeah, it was the post service and the social security office and like dudes that works at the FCC like yeah, these are real problems, but it wasn't the cia and the fbi I do love the idea of a post office worker just every morning just be like last line of defense As he puts on his little uh, well, it's like little rel from uh get out The whole tsh, but part of it is can you imagine? Yeah, the guys at the FCC just being like You guys know how fucked up this is like trying to call like I'm gonna be like There's like fucked up shit happening. They're saying bibles, but I know for a fact they're talking about gums

And ham radio is supposed to be for fun And there's nothing fun about lying about gums. It's so subjective. Yeah, okay When in the mind of jim jones and by extension the people who are getting the info through his filter. It was all the same These people were coming. They were coming soon. And so they better prepare That's when the white knights took a dark turn. That's when On february 18th 1978 jones gathered everyone together and told them that the guyanese government had been infiltrated by the cia For real this time. Okay, and that soldiers have begun gathering at port katuma. Uh, mr. Jones I don't want to interrupt your monologue, but

Is this this is for real for real this time? Uh, singing tom. Could you just sing that back to me? Is it for real? For real This time Oh, you got to believe That's enough sing a top This time though Nothing was done. No troops were deployed. No centuries were mounted. No exodus was spoken of

And after a few hours of making people wait Jones left went to the radio room and came back to tell everyone that the troops were advancing They were coming and they were coming now He might as well just picked up his hand and done like the phone motion with this like pinky and thumb being like I'm gonna call the guy in his government and make sure I know what's happening I'm seriously dialing the phone y'all Yep. Yep. Hello. Yep. Yep. Yep. We got to kill everybody now There's definitely a thing happening is they're all over the place is EIA is everywhere

I saw a CIA to dress as a monkey earlier trying to get up closer to mr. Mugs. Oh, I did not this was not I am not a part of this. I'm being dragged into this scenario I am just trying to enjoy a banana the way that monkeys enjoy a banana from the bottom up. I love mr. Mugs Well, I Mean that's kind of what happened Jones declared that it was finally time Assistance brought out vats filled with dark liquid and told everyone to scoop out a cup and drink deep with him 45 minutes He said they would all be dead Those that argued were pushed to the front by guards armed with guns and crossbows and those people were made to drink first

Setting a precedent these people knew that this could very well be a test But when it did actually happen, they knew there was not going to be a choice After the 45 minutes were up Jones told them that it was all just a test and that everyone had passed We won we won and again Nobody said shit. In fact, it seemed to strengthen their resolve because they didn't blame Jim Jones They blame the outside world for making him do it. Well, think about that kind of shit too where you You're being trained to take the poison. Also. I think at a certain on a certain level You

Believe it'll always be a test. I don't think that they'll I don't think that they truly Let it digest that it was really going to happen They thought it was a thought test I think forever and it wasn't until what we'll say on the final one was the tenor was so intense mostly just because of the The level of armed guards that was kind of forcing them to do it that they realized it was for real But I think up until up until then they thought it was always going to be shit like this where he's just teaching us a lesson Now we don't have enough time to go through every stressor that led to November 18th 1978 Jones had lawsuits threats and a steady drip of new stories out of San Francisco

All these coming one after another after another so in an effort to relieve stress Jones turned to any avenue Including Jimmy Carter Really? Yeah, Jones wrote Carter a five-page letter titled urgent urgent urgent That told Jimmy about all the problems he was having with the custody battle making sure to let Jimmy know how and why he had sex with Greystone, uh, if you want to get his attention you say peanuts peanuts peanuts now I'm just a simple peanut farmer and I've read your conurgent letter from you mr. Jones, and I have to say I am glad that Greystone has been dutifully sexually satisfied But I'm trying to put solar panels on the White House, and I'm getting much pushed back

They don't like it. I don't understand. Can you help me Jim Jones? This is my Jimmy Carter impression She's getting worse and worse Jim Jones you just send him those sunglasses Those on top of the way that was Jimmy did not respond. He did not he was busy. He was busy with the president didn't respond. That's weird Well, the drugs were taken hold as well once Larry Shaq caught Jones in his room calm in his hair Saying he had to make sure he looked good for his upcoming visit with King Hussein of Jordan who was coming to visit Johnstown Okay, yeah, was he wearing pants? That's my question defectors also continued to escape high

Profilers Debbie Layton the sister of Jones's right hand escaped and told about the poison test Which caught the attention of Congressman Leo Ryan? Jones's sons were already on their way out the door to they along with Marceline saw him for what he was more than anyone But Jones didn't really need him anymore He had Carolyn Layton and Maria Katsaris and Annie Moore and a dozen others the no matter What's the ones who doubled down every time Jim Jones did crazy shit? But Jones was gaining allies as well one of Jones's favorite movies was executive action What's that about? It's like it's a conspiracy thriller about like the JFK assassination

It was a bomb wasn't there also another movie called executive action Decision Russell in a second decision. Yes, I don't know what thinking about yeah Jones contacted one of the screenwriters this guy named Donald Freed and Freed came down to Guyana and found he liked the cut at Jonestown's dip big fan of your work, sir bulk of the series Now through Freed Jones was put into contact with a lawyer and author named Mark Lane Lane was a conspiracy theorist who swallowed Jones's claims that the government was working against Jones hook line and sinker or More likely Lane saw something he could exploit much like another more modern conspiracy theorist named Jones

That saw the same type of opening and seeing a meal ticket seized on it. Okay. Okay being a Sadly a self-described I would say almost former conspiracy theorist because now the name the time the times have changed and it's been taken from me Mm-hmm is that um, I Can't imagine anything more exciting than a fresh new conspiracy Yeah, you get to be dropped down into a whole thing and that's kind of fun Where you get to show up and look and see like oh I can manipulate this kind of like what would happen if we had really Gotten into Lord Rael

Back in the day when we found him anyway, we gotta take a quick break here. I need to just hop in my tactical bath Freed and Lane listened to Jones's rantings about the intelligence community coming after him for what Jones said was no reason What's however and took them public and it didn't matter if they believed it or not these two guys They created a feedback loop making Jim Jones's claims quote-unquote real when reporters asked Lane for concrete evidence Lane said where's the CIA not bad? Yeah, got up and they're like that's not a that's that's not an answer like there's no There's no evidence like we're asking for specifics You're giving us you know you're giving us conjecture like do you have any specifics that because it's because this was a time when like You know the FBI and the CIA were villains

Yeah, you know there was co-intel pro and all kinds of shit so the media were villains until fucking six weeks ago Now a man autumn all of a sudden. They're not villains anymore. We talked about that abling its top ad never forget They're still kind of villains Yeah Well, the people were at the media who was looking for any dirt on the CIA and the FBI looking for anything They were saying like dude give it to us like get give us something and Lane's just like draw your own conclusions on this one bud All I got is this dress from J. Edgar Hoover's closet must be his wives or something

I don't know you want to see a fun little secret. He puts a mask on that just says see I on a CIA on it I'm the CIA now You can just do that what hell no I also imagine Mark Lane is wearing a Hawaiian shirt looking like Ned jury from Jurassic Park But it is a fun. He had a fun opportunity here is a conspiracy theorist and I believe he milked it sufficiently All right, so we're gonna take a quick five-minute break for some sponsored content that it is still full of information In which we talk about a gruesome ritualistic murder, but we'll be right back with the day itself This segment is brought to you by the ritual the hit film coming out on Netflix very very soon

If a film cannot be a hit before it's released according to rotten tomatoes It's absolutely crushing it so and run tomatoes is a snarky website And I believe it's at 72% right now. So the ritual doing very well all movies nowadays are Presupposed to be a hit. Yeah, like it's supposed to be and honestly what I liked about the ritual immediately is that it reminded Me of my friends. Why cuz you want us all dead. No, I don't want us all dead to be fun to die together And yes, the ritual will make a wonderful addition to your Valentine's Day If she likes horror movies or if he likes horror movies make sure they're into the genre But if they are they're gonna love this movie. Well, this is one of those things. It's kind of it's kind of like the other thing

We did where it's a story that's inspired by The media that's coming out this one's inspired by the ritual So we're going to use this ritual the ritual as a kind of like little jump it up point to tell you a story of a mysterious Disappearance in the woods. Okay, this is the murder of the Cowden family. Oh hell. Yeah, so on August 30th 1975 Richard Cowden took his wife Belinda their two small children David and Melissa and their Basset hound Groopy on an impromptu camping trip to the Siskiyou Mountains near Copper organ I like Basset hounds because they name themselves. Yes, just flappies labia

Yeah, that's nice The last person to see any of the Cowden's was the proprietor of the local general store who sold Richard and his son a Gallon of milk as they were on their way back to the campsite on their last day September 1st I don't know if milk is a camping drink Always bring milk on a camping trip. I think you'd make you always do I believe that the parks always picked up pickles and milk for every camping trip. We're a milky family Now these people have been expected at Belinda's mother's house that night as their campsite was only a mile away And the plan was for a quick dinner on the way back home, but when they failed to show up

Belinda went searching When she got to the campsite the family was nowhere to be found and it seemed as if they just walked away Their car keys were on the picnic table along with Belinda's purse and the Gallon of milk They'd bought earlier that day sat half full next to the keys It's actually quite a bit of milk to drink. Yeah, that's his first like couple hours like four or five hours I don't mean to be focused on that. No, they sat and they chugged milk for a while like it was a family game Maybe you see you and Belinda always wins. Why not? Well, this is a mysterious disappearance

So any clue could be the secret to unlocking it So maybe the empty half Gallon of milk could be the key to this all you think big dairy did it Is that what is that what's happening here? Is this a big dairy move because to me they're always trying the only way they would be that is if it also They'd also purchase grape juice or some of like sun kissed was it what's it remember the orange stuff What was it the um sunny D sunny D sunny delight? I imagine big dairy would want to kill a family to keep them from drinking sunny delight. Sure. Well stranger still was Richard's belongings He had a prized wrist watch

Expensive and it lay on the ground next to his wallet which contained $21 not a small sum in 1974 money, I mean, it's still it's not a big sum. Yeah I mean $21 I guess if you're gonna kill the family and not take the milk then leaving the $21 like doesn't mean something So they were they just left so it is they came back and the whole camp was just set up like they were in the middle of shit Then they disappeared. Well, not really. Okay, the strangest thing was that the only missing missing items were their bathing suits What yeah, that's all that was missing everything else was there, but the bathing suits were gone Okay, so Belinda's mother called the cops who of course waited another full day to begin investigating as there were no signs of violence Okay, it wasn't until the Cowden's Basset Hound

Droopy showed up scratching at the front of the copper general store that cops finally took the whole thing seriously Was it covered in all the bathing suits? Did the dog steal the bathing suits? That's a good question for eight months The police had not only no leads, but no evidence that anything had even happened It wasn't until eight months later that people found out what happened to the Cowden's although to this day Nobody knows exactly what happened or why? Two gold prospectors still apparently convinced they could still find gold in 1974 found Richard They found Richard Cowden's desiccated corpse tied to a tree seven miles from the campsite from whence they vanished

Well you reek! Yeah Kim, oh see when I found him in our hills come to- oh shit That is not gold. Can we sell this? No, no, it's a dead father. I don't think so. They go for very little money A further search of the area uncovered a cave whose entrance had been blocked with rocks when the rocks were removed Investigators found the bodies of Melinda Cowden and the two small children Although there was a supposed confession from a criminal out on parole at the time named Dwayne Lee Little It seems highly unlikely he was involved and just happened to be in the area that day It's likely that what happened to the Cowden's will forever remain a mystery

All right, sounds like a thing that if Jesus came back and he was really pissed off and decided to take take it out On people uh-huh that he would kill people just like he got fucking killed Listen if Jesus was a serial killer when he came back and he nailed it cut like fucking the father to the tree Like they did to him and then he put him on the cave and you put all but your rocks in front of it It's like they fucking did to him. He's like Jason I want to say that is not the end of the movie The Ritual. So there's no spoilers happening here. Make sure you go and check out this film Oh, yeah, The Ritual now streaming only on Netflix Watch it on Valentine's Day grab your lover real close or grab yourself because you're completely alone

And now back to Jonestown What a great segment and I can't wait to see the movie The Ritual Marcus. We already did the assault Henry. We don't have to do it again So November of 1978 Leo Ryan finally decided it was time for him to visit Jonestown on behalf of the United States government Supported by the concerned relatives group in addition to hearing the poison test stories from Debbie Layton Ryan represented a district near San Francisco. So he had a vested interest and ironically Ryan also traveled to Jonestown because he was known to fight against Social injustice which he saw in spades from the stories coming from Jonestown. Okay Now I'm only going to do this once because I know it gets really sad

But I think about Jonah Ryan from Veep every time you say Congressman Ryan Jonad which makes it fun. So many Veep references. Veep is the best show. It's an actual comedy Um, but yes, but I'm not going to think about that again. Um, also, I would say that this Leo Ryan move to Jonestown and what happened to him is pretty much chronicles the last time a congressman ever did anything Yeah, like in terms of actively leaving or doing anything for any sort of constituents whatsoever Because um, it gets you killed sometimes because I guess they're not as popular Yeah, as you think they'd be as they think they are I guess Ryan sent a letter to Jim Jones informing him of his intentions weeks in advance

So Jones knew he was coming along with Leo Ryan went two staff members nine members of the media and 13 concerned relatives members Including Tim and Graystone. This is Jones telling his people What was being said about him back in the united states in advance of Ryan's visit? They endured weeks of this shit, which only served to heighten tensions The stuff of the lie, they're filled with hate. They say I initiate people here every male I have to screw and every female I screw and that we cut up people Kill them bury them and eat them. I tell all kinds of vicious lies Anything that fits the purpose

Babies have been burned alive. They don't mind telling any kind of lie and they feast on lies Each one of them feasting on lies They spend every wasted moment every moment. They're not at the job talking about us obsessed by us They we are their devil. They have to have something to keep them going because their life is so empty I mean, it's like people are also thinking about the Hoosiers And I know in wisconsin to think about the pack attack quite a bit This is just unbelievable the self-obsession here. I mean, obviously he's he is a narcissist and he's making everybody obsessed with him as well Because that's where again we've always talked about is that when you're in a cult you're in the cult leader's brain. You're now a part an extension of him

But also there are nuggets truth in what he's saying Which is the he does fuck all the women and all the men and everything else is like Everything else's lies, but it was kind of I wonder how that is for people in johnson when you hear it saying like They're spotting all these lies saying that I make love to every man and woman and they're like, uh Uh, you do dead, but uh, I mean you fuck me Also, I do want to point out to the audience that Henry has lost his shirt He has uh at some point during this recording now you are fully However more clothed it looks like on account of your hair, but so I do I spilled some of my coffee

And I didn't want it to get out of the computer. So I had to use my shirt because we were on roll Okay, all right Just want to keep everyone up to date on the short status of Henry Zabrowski. Well, no one back in the united states Is saying that they burn babies or kill babies or eat babies or anything like that No one's saying that uh, but jim jones is telling these people that they're saying that and they're saying that people Like ryan is coming and saying that and on top of that like stones tim stone is coming This villain that jones has created for such a long time like all of the villains are coming and we know they're coming They are absolutely coming this time

Uh, there's no if ands or buts about it. So people endure this shit for weeks They hear every single night. So by the time ryan shows up people are fucking terrified. They are on edge jones is walking around with his armed guards at all times like these Shit is reaching a boiling point by the time ryan before ryan even shows up I mean if you're a congressman ryan, you got to be like, have you been uh saying bad shit about me or something Because I just feel like they don't like me at all. I don't even know him. He had a vibe as often here. It's like I had a bad opener You know what I mean? It's just like I was like what can I do? It's like an opener can't be that good But he also can't be too good. Right. I mean it's got to set the stage for the headliner, but when leo ryan showed up

Uh, uh, honestly that that's what he'd been doing, right? Is he even telling all these lies about what was going to happen when he came and uh He was kind of getting normal correspondence from them Yeah, like they were kind of like they were had like a normal thing He said that they were planning to come they didn't realize the inner debate That was happening inside of jones town to like even should he if if he even could come to the compound But a part of me Wonders if jones knew the second that marslyn convinced him that they should let leo ryan in as if this was gonna be the final

The final couple of days. I really wonder if he knew well ryan didn't even want to go into jones town Um, like he his entire plan was he was gonna go he was gonna have a nice little trip to south america He was gonna go to the gates of jones town They'd say you're not coming in and he was gonna go back to america and be a politician He was gonna open a congressional hearing and then it wouldn't be his fucking problem anymore Oh, so being a politician means just getting together in a room with a bunch of other fucking idiots and doing nothing But you feel like you did something because everyone had a good long talk about it And then he also got a free trip to south america and you don't mean you don't think that he would just go to

Guyana and dip his toe it and jones had to leave there'd be a little bit of party and a little bit of I'm not sure how they party, but there'd be a lot of drink and sambuca Actually, I don't know what they drink in south america, but stuff like that Where it's like he'd have on a vacation too fucking congressman piece of shit always finding time to party Well, ryan, I mean we can't malign the name of leo ryan. He was actually I'm sure I know I know I know I'm just saying I have a disdain for congressman in general that gets expressed Yeah, leo ryan was a good dude But unfortunately for him and everyone involved jones decided after a lot of pressure from his lawyers and marcelin that ryan should be let in

Because they believed that ryan Was their was the key to their survival because like marcelin. She was a good woman She didn't want anyone to die and the lawyers they didn't want to lose their meal ticket And presumably didn't want anyone to die either This was the reasonable jonestown contingent because there was still reasonable people there. That's what you hear Again and again, especially from people like, you know tim carter being like this was not a Like this was not necessarily a a huge hive mind There was some sort of hive mind going on

But there were a lot of reasonable people around going like hey wait a minute like we need to slow this shit down Like we like what's going on here with the socialist society, but all this other shit. We don't want Now when marcelin was she not involved and she was not involved in the first white knight She was out of town, right? I think she was in the united states. I think that was before she came Yeah, by the time marcelin got there. It was way out of hand. Okay, so up until then The reports are rich because marcelin was a part of the original like the burgeoning like cutting the jungle getting jonestown in there A part of their big argument was like we have done this beautiful thing We are creating a pure socialist society

Where everyone takes care of each other all of the best qualities of everyone is being used She doesn't really understand quite how dark it's gotten So part of her big push and everyone the inside being like let ryan see What we've built like we have this thing we have a uh, uh, what's it the city in the sky What was it? What was that term like on like on the mountaintop? We made the pl. We made the promise land But the she didn't fully understand the extent of how bad things were really getting Yeah, it sounds like when your college roommate is like come to the bathroom. I got something to show you and it's just a turd Well, I think marcelin marcelin also

somewhat willfully ignored a lot of the bad shit that was going on I think she thought that leo ryan could come in because it had happened before where people had traveled down to jonestown Like family members had traveled down And they clean up their act when those family members there when the outside people are there they clean up their act for a few days They don't do anything awful And then the family members go back and say like actually it looks pretty cool Like everyone's have everyone's really enjoying themselves there and they could have done the exact same thing with leo ryan But there was another contingent of involved in jonestown the ones that were preparing for armageddon

Or at least their own personal armageddon. You think they get off on the lie Like the whole community when the person comes in they pretend to be so nice like the movie house of wax And then as soon as they go then they're like and this is like do you think they yeah, even they like it Yeah, they get away with it. I think it's just it's the part of wish I think when we originally started talking about jim jones in the first couple episodes We kind of used the idea that he is like a serial killer that used a group of people as a weapon against itself This is where the serial killer part the compartmentalization of his personality I think comes in because a part of it's the joy of getting one over on somebody

There's like a thing here that we we're hoodwinking people we're we're living double lives And the thrill of that is pretty intense like he he loves that one we we have all these inner sanctums There are people on a need to know basis about what's really happening here Um, but I also think they also openly expressed that a part of having leo ryan come Was they thought they could relieve from some pressure as if he comes and takes out the people who don't want to be there Marceline actually wanted that to happen She wanted the people who didn't want to be there to get a chance to leave And that leo ryan would be the kind of ticket for that it would have be good way it would soothe jim jones

It would be like a thing where he comes in hopefully gives a blessing to everything and takes just the small quotient of people Who want to leave out and that would that'll do allow the rest of us to kind of live a peaceful life here Without all these people complaining all the time Yeah, but there were a lot of people that were not into that specifically carolin leighton She drew up a memo called analysis of future prospects in which she outlined all the reasons why jones town had no chance of survival In any way whatsoever in a subsection titled a final stand if decided on She casually wrote about a final solution should things go south of congressman ryan Outlining how the mass suicide could most efficiently be carried out casually. Well, we'll bet maybe we'll behead each other

Maybe we'll shoot each other. Maybe we'll take pills. What do you think guillotine? They always say guillotine right the act like a guillotine First of all it took me seven hours to put together the the clothes drawer like the set of drawers I have for my kia. Oh, yeah in my bedroom right and i'm a fucking moron and there's an incentive instructions If you order a guillotine, it is not only going to come disassembled. Oh, yeah, but I don't think that they're going to give you Instructions on how to build it. I think a guillotine is like well if you can figure out good luck Also, you're going to need to find your own guillotine blade, which is the hardest part of a guillotine Absolutely, so you want to just you act like it's the simple solution

But that's like hundreds of man-hours that you just casually wrote down carolin Thinking that we could just build all these guillotines lickety split. That was only orion coming in a week That's a very recent relatively recent alex jones conspiracy as a matter of fact that the government is going to kill us with guillotines Which is not even an effective way to do it. That's not recent at all wait within five years or so I guess so it's it's so stupid. No, dude, uh bill cooper was saying oh that was bill cooper It started with bill cooper the whole point of guillotines is to the mass suits because what it does is build up the organ energy Of people lying in terror of the blade and when the blade drops the spurting of blood Acquires a lot of magic energy and that is what they're supposed to be using to open up the pyramids to let the reptilian sense

It all makes perfect sense With this memo from carolin leighton like it has echoes of correspondence You read between nazis about like the concentration camps the best way to kill everyone Uh, it has that banality to it, you know, they talk about this shit like we talk about like planning out a fucking episode We're fairly serious Now I think we got like a chicken and egg situation here Did leighton plant the seed of inevitability in jones's mind with a memo or did jones plant the seed in leighton's mind? Which led leighton to write it feeding back into jones's own deadly desires

Did they hashtag release this memo or did I mean did people know about this or was this no This was a top secret This was a this was a top secret like and I don't even know who else saw it It might have just been between carolin leighton and jim jones because they found So much documentation, uh, and so many tapes after, uh, everyone killed themselves Now either way whether jones planted it in leighton's mind or leighton planted it in jones When you look at how fast and efficiently all this happened It was obvious that this seed had fully bloomed before ryan even arrived

But just before ryan arrived though marcelon insisted jones let their sons travel to georgetown for a week of exhibition basketball games Because jones town had a basketball team. They did. Yeah, what are the jones town boys? What's her name? It was called the south guy on a thin man Very malnourished and they would show up apparently the they would go Um, and they would loose. They're a very bad basketball team, but they loved it They it was up the way they did but jim jones would always spout the scores from the games And we whooped him again We whooped them and that's all we do we whoop them and we whoop them whoop and whoop across this great country

Meanwhile, it's like they are they are traveling with the ball Constantly because they don't have the energy to dribble and everyone else just lets them do it because they know they're from jones town Yeah, they would they were terrible They constantly lost and they were having to come back after jones told everyone that they had won and eventually like They lost so much the jones would just lie about how much they lost by oh, but he didn't It's so sad Can you imagine being honestly going through all of this shit? You love basketball and then you're sitting there

I mean obviously you're one of the chosen ones you're here hanging out in the in jones town as a child So you're actually having like an okay time, but having to lie like that level of lie has got to be depressing. It's ridiculous Well This brings up another question about marshland sending the boys out Was this a calculated move on marshland's part to remove at least a couple of her children from ground zero? The place where shit was most likely to go down Was it a calculated move for her to remove some of her children from ground zero? Or was it a coincidence?

I don't know I actually I wonder the more and more we learn about marshland, especially from uh, McGee is that it seems like it may be calculated Yeah, I mean it seems like she may have sent them out because she did this a couple of times with the other kids She always kind of like whatever opportunity she could to get the kids out she took right I mean either way. It's a tragedy Steven jones himself has said on multiple occasions that he and his mother together Were the only people who could talk jim jones out of his dumber ideas Leaving jones town saved the lives of steven jim jr and a few dozen others

But the absence of their cool heads may have doomed everyone else and this is no fault of their own I mean this is just a tragedy of history But had they been there it's possible. They might have been able to stop it. Maybe I don't know Maybe it seems like that train once that train left the station Right, it seemed like by by the end, especially we're gonna find out with the fates of everybody involved What we see end up happening is that whatever it would have been it would have been delaying the inevitable Until either they really truly did get in trouble with the us or guyanese government Or they finally just did their their version of the final solution

Yeah, it's like when they cut the brakes of john candy's car and who framed draw or who uh, who killed harry crumb Who is harry crumb? Who is harry crumb? Who is harry crumb? Is that what it's called? Who's harry crumb? Who's harry crumb? Yeah, all the movie's great, but once he starts going you're not stopping You know what when I sat down and re-listened to the death tape again The only thing I could think of was john candy And i'm just glad you brought him up. No problem. R.I.P. Legend So on november 17th 1978 congressman ryan and 19 others chartered a plane

And flew to the small pothold airstrip in port kaituma after being greeted by jones town settlers Only congressman ryan and aid and eight members of the media were allowed to go The ninth from the national inquire was refused admission due to an earlier beef with jim jones He had a feud with the national inquire. Yeah That's a great And when the group arrived in jones town they found a near paradise His settlers had worked even harder than usual in the days leading up to the visit to make it seem like jones town Was a well-oiled machine full of the happiest people on earth

Oh, and the rehearsals had somewhat worked, too This here is a couple of statements from settlers on that day as shown in the pbs documentary Which is why there's the creepy music underneath. Are you happy here? Oh, I should say I am. I've never been any happier in my life You want to stay? Definitely I certainly do some people have said They couldn't leave if they wanted to Do you think you could yeah if I really wanted to I'm feeling down So brainwashed at this point

Brainwashed, I'm not sure. I don't know if it's brainwashed. No. No, I don't know if brainwashing is the right word. What's that? I mean, that's do you think they knew that they were lying in that situation? I think so. Okay, like I think so I think they know that they're lying. I think a part of it in the end is what they've been indoctrinated Actually Marcus, I think maybe not that you're wrong, but I think that this is actually the face of what brainwashing actually is You're not actually an automaton. I think that's that's kind of the thing that everybody gets confused about by cults and generals And they think that you become this kind of like brainless Like robot when with Om Shinrikyo is probably the closest. Yes that this came to that This is people making a willing choice what they have now been constantly indoctrinated to believe

Is a means to an end that we have to do this to keep our perfect society alive? We're now in the growing pains of a perfect society. That's why it's not good right now. That's actually to me brainwashing at its most insidious Where they have been they are they are fully convinced that what they're doing is right And what they and they'll do anything to protect it including lying so a part of it They're actively lying, but the brainwashing is the layer deeper and there. I mean, maybe there were some people there I mean, there definitely were people in Jonestown that were of the same kind of people I mean, there definitely were people in Jonestown that were of that ilk that were definitely true believers True believers that were like that far in that were lying, but I

Some or that thought that this was a means to an end But I mean, I think when you start to see like the defectors coming out there were definitely some people that Saw something wrong going on here. Oh, yeah, and wanted to get the fuck out I don't think it's the the hold on that Jim Jones had on his people is Uh, it was tenuous and strong at the same time. It was very strong on some people and very very loose on others Now that night Jim Jones met this whole group at the pavilion and everyone had dinner in honor of congressman Ryan and even a couple of concerned relatives But they didn't have the usual rice mixed in with specks of meat

That was the norm at Jonestown people's temple dipped into the pigory as they did only when guests came and served a nice pork dish Have I made the joke about how that sounds like a bank run by pigs? many times But what I will say is that eventually I will own a bar called the pig So that we can always say that I got to go take a dip into the pigory and you go man That would be so much fun and have like make hot girls dress up as hogs Like you get a bunch of like hot girls

They make it like a bikini bar and you get like hot dudes too dressed with piggy noses and little piggy ears That's kind of fun, right? That's good It sounds like you're like a ukrainian like billionaire If I ever get real money if I get a million dollars everybody's gonna be fucked Everyone talks about ilan musk talking like I'm actually pro ilan musk. I love that. He's in a car to space Because he can why not he's a billionaire and when I'm a billionaire if I'm ever a billionaire I'm wearing an exoskeleton everywhere. I go one of those big mech warrior things and I'm going to terrorize people on the street Ilan musk is the only reason we have a space program. You're talking about having people wear pig costumes and serving beer

So I feel like one might be a billion dollar idea And the other one is a pig costume I am a modern day ilan musk. I'm next genio. Okay Well dinner was followed with testimonies and a special performance by the jonesown express Oh, cool. They were really good. They were great If you listen if you go to the beginning of this chapter in the pbs documentary and they show some singing from it The girl that was a lead singer of jonesown express is fucking incredible Yeah, and in the middle of all that congressman ryan got on the microphone and said a few words

I think that all of you know that I'm here to find out more about Questions that have been raised about your operation here I can tell you right now that from a few conversations I've had with some of the folks here already this evening that That whatever the comments are there are some people here who believe that this is the best thing that ever happened in their whole life It's crazy like uh led zeppelin or something I cut the cheering off Because it goes on longer the camera man said that I had never seen anything like this Like he sat there this were like the the the sound that came out of him

It's like I had never heard anything like this and one of the followers turned to him This is like it's because you've never seen anything like this. That was tim carter. Which is very Yes, that's really intense. That's very very intense. But also I think in that noise you hear almost a I think everybody kind of read a little bit of the writing on the wall thinking that this was going to be um the end times and I think a part of what we're hearing is relief of

Okay, he's cool We don't have to all kill ourselves. Like this is like we we just bought time Yeah, we're just here. We did it. We did the big hurdle what we thought was going to be the big hurdle Now we can really start living our socialist utopia. Yeah, we did it, you know, like they they They saw a huge victory right in front of them, you know, they they he would leave and everything would be great And no one was going to die. Okay, but While all these good times were happening a settler named Vernon Gosney had passed a note to don harris of mbc Because Vernon thought that don harris was congressman leo ryan and the note read

Vernon Gosney and monica bagsby. Please help us get out of jones town. Oh, that's chilling Yes, now Vernon tried to be smooth with it But since he was nervous as hell he got butterfingers and dropped the note as he was passing it And when he picked it back up and handed the note to harris a little kid saw him and said he passed a note He passed a note which is what all of the kids were trained to do Uh, the kids were trained to rat on everybody, which is another strike against having a child But it's very similar to you've ever seen the movie white ribbon. No, no It's about um as the nazi party is rising in germany and it's about like the kids in the school

We're essentially like the thought process of the nazis had kind of like Boiled down into the kids and so the kids became really scary Because essentially it became informants for the state Which is kind of basically what they were going for with the nazi youth movement And you see it here We're in this little moment where you could see how like a child is weaponized Um with thought right it's very intense Now jones did nothing that night

Although he almost certainly knew about the note. It's almost impossible For jones to not have heard about one of his settlers passing a note to one of the reporters, right? Now the media had to go back to port kaituma to sleep, but ryan spent the night in jones town without incident I think if the plan all along was to just kill ryan, he could have done it then right very very easily Slate his throat in his sleep. That would be it Once again jones was improvising, but he was prepared the next day on november 18th 1978 what jones had been preparing his people for over the course of almost a decade Finally came to fruition

ryan awoke early and was almost immediately met with people ready to get the hell out of jones town In fact people had already started to go Overnight 11 settlers had seen the writing on the wall and had escaped through the jungle But also this shows the true congressman spirit of leo ryan because when he showed up He didn't show up with any plan to get people out of there. He just showed up really expecting I'm not even able to get in there. I get to go party and go out and then leave. I know it's his job I didn't know he was technically doing a very good job and he was he was there I'm trying to malign him

But what I will say is that he had no backup plan And so when he showed up he all of these people are now coming at him saying like hey We want to get the fuck out of here and he's like, uh-oh What the fuck do I do now? right Now jones himself didn't appear until noon and as soon as jones walked out of his hut He was told about the overnight escapes and the defectors who'd approached ryan jones and marshland took some of the defectors aside the ones who were still there and tried to convince them to stay

But no more persuaded. He especially tried to use marshland when marshland was like, we're gonna do reforms We're gonna change everything. I know you're not happy here. I know you've had a hard time But we're gonna change believe me. We're gonna change. Yeah, maybe just change the name to like uncle grumpy circus fun That's how you do you start with the name change it. Yeah, there were whole families that were leaving like the parks family They'd been with jones since indiana and they told ryan that they were prisoners in jones town and begged to be taken away The bogh family who counted six said pretty much the same thing because I mean the bogh the head of the bogh household He'd been getting ripped on by jim jones for weeks if not months at that point He was one of jim jones's whipping boys. So he was like we can get out of here. Let's get out of here

The parents took children. They left their spouses behind They'd caused just complete and total chaos and loyalists verbally attacked the defectors and they were calling them traitors And then the news crew cornered jones for a torturous Desperate 45 minute long interview. Here's an excerpt Last night someone came and passed me this note He's the one that I'm just talking about Yeah, this this is the man. I want to lose son here Doesn't it concern you though that this man for whatever reason what are the people in your group people play games friend

They lie the lie. What can I do about lies? Are you people going leave us? I just beg you please leave us Bill we will bother nobody anybody wants to get out of here can get out of here We have no problem by getting out here. They come and go all the time. I don't know what kind of game people like People like publicity. Some people do. I don't But something like publicity, but if it's so damn bad, why is he leaving his son here? Can you give me good reason for that? Well, you're also here when you listen to that remember hear that noise to the background at this point It's fucking your fever pitch, right? You're seeing jim jones

He's lost kind of a lot of his powers at this point. He's saying weird dumb shit about even playing a game and doing stuff Which is obviously he's been kind of been exposed He's sitting there which he's talking to people while everyone around him's starting to fucking freak out They goes they are trying to pull out like leo ryan and the crew is trying to leave And people are like take my fucking kid And and trying to like jump in with them on the party But leo ryan doesn't have any fucking room on the plane Right, so here they're all like having this like ongoing negotiation at the at the foothills of jonestown trying to get out

Meanwhile, jim jones is doing whatever frantic chickey can try to keep everybody in play Now as the people continue to scream at each other and have these very very public fights The rain came a fall storm Descended upon the settlement torrential rains and howling wind tim carter in an oft quoted line Said it felt like evil blowing into jonestown By the time the storm had passed 15 people had decided to leave Along with the 11 that had escaped overnight the total number of defectors stood at 26

Now to put that into perspective that was less than three percent of the jonestown population Now the lawyers they were fully prepared to lose three times that they were like, yeah If we lose 10 percent great, and they would have considered that a victory 26. That was beyond their wildest hopes Yeah, they did good They technically that was that was not bad that was not bad loss And honestly it would help some shit because they're all sleeping fucking on top of each other Probably really good twivel loss like 30 bodies so that there's some more room out there Yeah, and the lawyers in marslyn also figured like hey, this is going to take the wind out of leo ryan sales

Because he went down. He did his due diligence only 26 people left You know three percent left and so ryan's not really going to have enough people to go back for a congressional hearing Especially after jim jones like let him in like marslyn and uh the lawyers plan it worked It totally worked like everything was on track But jones didn't see it that way He saw it as an ultimate betrayal one person would have been too many much less 26 to him The 26 was only a beginning and he very well may have been right of course. We'll never know

Either way he wasn't going to give them the chance to leave not the 26 nor the 908 who decided to stay jones decided it was time for the final white knight The original plan was that jones would send larry latin carolins brother along with ryan as a would-be defector And larry latin did go along But he brought with him his gun and the plan was that as soon as the plane was in the air latin was supposed to take out the gun and shoot the pilot in the head and that would crash the plane Into the jungle and this had nothing to do with keeping ryan from telling his story and everything to do with giving jones town One last push. What's with brothers-in-law doing fucked up shit?

Like honestly, why is it always like my brother-in-law? He oh, you know like my my sister's first husband I had to go and help him run booze one time into this dry county that his buddy was in in upstate florida And I had to do that. He also had a whole pile of nugget and butt magazine That was like all except it's like in a big trash bag. Why is it always brothers-in-law? I don't know. I think that might just be more of your sister's dating choices Oh that one, but yeah, Larry Layton was carolins brother-in-law. Yes Now this action killing leo ryan

It would make jones's off-repeated fantasies that the united states was coming after them a reality a dead congressman would ensure that Yep, they were coming The problem was there were more defectors than jones had planned on as we said That meant that jones had to call a second plane to bring them all and now that there were two planes There was no guarantee that Layton would be on the same plane as ryan Well, think about this shit too. There's all of this chaos is happening at jones town storm comes in now Nobody's leaving it's torrential downpour people are freaking out jim jones and his contingent has gone off to the side They are already putting the final white knight into order

Leo ryan has got to figure out how to get a plane to port kids like to back to the airfield And so he has to arrange all this shit from the offices of jones town. He is calling the guy in his government doing all this shit It's like it's massive chaos. Yeah, and then at the last minute ryan decided to stay behind Just in case more people decided to defect So once more jones improvised now We don't know for sure which order jim jones gave or if jim jones even gave an order But some believe that jones took a side a loyalist named don ujara sly And hold him to cut the congressman's throat then and there

That's how you know you've become acclimated to the jungle is if you change your own name to ujara and you're from india Now sly walked up to ryan and held the knife to his neck But sly hesitated and in that moment of hesitation tim carter and mike lane the conspiracist lawyer wrestled him away and then when they wrestled him away They accidentally cut sly's hand in the process and showered ryan with blood Which is why in the pictures you see of leo ryan after he left while he's covered in blood Well, they said that he acted They it was kind of haunting the way that ujara acted is that he showed up and he was like a manchurian candidate

Where you walked up to leo ryan and just said the words mother fucker. It's time for you to die And then he was crying viciously crying He went up and he like slowly put the knife up to his throat and then just froze And it's he didn't he wasn't prepared to kill like he couldn't kill like he couldn't do it And so they they pulled him down and it's just how insane is that like because i don't know if you've ever Have you been mugged kissle or marcus? Yeah, i've been mugged When i got mugged there's a part of being like assaulted on the street or something that which i i don't know people know When it was like like where you kind of almost feel like in shock

Where you're not even sure what's happening where you're like looking at me like am i being mugged right now? Where you have to like ask the question and you could see the look on leo ryan's face right like oh shit I was just like almost murder. That's great. So i mean I was just thinking about when he was helping people out In the black community with electricity bills and stuff like that and how it got to this point. It's just insane That's the great tragedy of it my goodness now after that ryan figured it was about time for him to get the fuck out of dodge Yep, that's well, you know what ding ding ding that's the indicator time to go Check please and then he's the first person to actually use check please and it worked because the the plane show

ryan caught up with the truck that had been carrying the defectors and the media back to the Airstrip he hopped on and he told him drive as fast as you can and get us out of here Now it's possible that jones was trying to take ryan out on the spot But it's equally as possible that he was just trying to scare ryan away But either way jones was not going to let leo ryan leave gayana alive On jones's command a heavily armed crew of eight the red brigade Hopped in a tractor trailer and took off after the congressman jones then called up the people's temple offices in georgetown and gave the code that it was time to die

Now remember steven and jim jones were in georgetown for a basketball game steven was at the georgetown headquarters at the time when they received this code A lot of people have gone to see mr. Frazier. I think mrs. Brownfield has offered to help Now translated that meant people were dead and it's time for you to die as well So sharon amos one of jones's most loyal relayed the message to the people's temple offices in san francisco Now steven jones he tried his best to save everyone in jones town He even wanted to go back to jones town because he knew what the code meant But he knew one there wasn't enough time

They'd have to charter a plane or take a boat, you know and get all the way back there And even if there was enough time they didn't have any weapons You know there were 25 armed guards in jones town that would have taken them down immediately And steven almost saved everyone in the capital but in a moment of distraction when steven wasn't looking Sharon amos locked herself and her three kids in the bathroom Along with a man named chuck beekman and slit her kids' throats before opening up her own Back in the jungle leo ryan and the others had reached the airstrip unharmed But as they were loading into the second plane with one plane already taxiing down the runway the eight gunmen arrived

Down the airstrip a group of guyanese soldiers watched from a distance where they were guarding a broken down guyanese plane Completely independent of this entire situation Oh, yeah, they're just sitting just fucking would just hanging out just doing their job And all of a sudden all these people started opening up fire at each other And then they just didn't intervene because they didn't get him one They didn't want to get in the middle of a bunch of americans fighting each other Which I can actually sort of understand where they're just like uh, uh, this is above my fucking pay grade I'm not going to go into the I don't know what's going on over there

Yeah, I mean the guyanese soldiers get involved and all of a sudden you've got a diplomatic incident You've got a you've got an even bigger problem than these people kill on each other because now your guys are involved At this point the guyanese government can say like hey listen, we just gave them the land We didn't know what they were doing out there So the soldiers just watched as the gunmen opened fire Now it was a good thing for jones that he sent the crew because leighton was already on the first plane without ryan And that plane was about to take off But even though larry leighton at this point really didn't have any reason to

He took the cue from the gunman and started shooting his pistol anyway And he wounded monica bagsby and vernon gasney. Those are the ones who had passed the note in the first place Leighton was disarmed by defector dale parks But by the time the gunmen drove off nine were wounded and five people including congressman leo ryan were dead on the ground The gunmen could have easily finished everyone off But instead they focused on ryan and the reporters the ones who had pissed off jones the most They pumped ryan's body in particular full of bullets Shot him in the face to make sure and drove back to jones town where the final white knight was beginning

The settlers were called to the pavilion in almost calm tones So calm that people assumed jones just wanted to talk about what happened that day They didn't know about ryan just yet, but they would soon find out Armed guards surrounded the pavilion. This had been done during previous white nights, especially during practice runs But this time it felt real the energy was different and someone heard jones ask Can you make it taste less bitter? So with most of the settlers present jim jones turned on his microphone and began speaking How very much i've loved you

How very much i've tried my best to give you a good life But in spite of all of the i've tried A handful of our people with their lives have made our life impossible There's no way to detach ourselves from what's happened today Not only we're in a compound situation Not only are there those who have left and committed the betrayal of the century Some have stolen children from others and they're in pursuit right now to kill them Because they stole their children

And we we are sitting here waiting on a powder keg As jones gave his speech larry shack continued to prepare the potion Somewhere in the camp already laid the bodies of those who had been dr. Shack's test subjects possible volunteers who gave their lives like they used to give blood for jones's stigmata It soon became clear what was happening and only one person stood up and spoke out 60 year old christine miller Back in california christine had been a successful real estate broker just like anyone you'd meet on the street She had more than a few times publicly disagreed with jones during meetings and had once stood defiantly demanding jones respecter All while he was holding his 357 magnum to her head screaming at her

She one of the few people who wasn't afraid to tell jim jones when he was wrong stood up on the last day And asked him why they couldn't go to russia as he'd promised Do you think russia's gonna want no not gonna Do you think russia's gonna want us with all this stigma? We had we had some value, but now we don't have any value Well, I don't see it like that. I mean, I feel like that as long as his life is hope That's my fate. Well, some everybody dies someplace that hope runs out because everybody dies

I haven't seen anybody yet didn't die And I'd like to choose my own kind of death for a change. I'm tired of being tormented to hell. That's what I'm tired of Tired of it But there were some seniors in the back who agreed with christine, but they were in the minority The only responses on microphones. She got were in support of the plan and in support of jim jones I still have a right to my own opinion I'm not taking it from you. I'm not taking it from you christine You're only standing here because he was here in the first place

So I don't know what you're talking about having an individual life Your life has been extended to the day that you're standing there because of him Then after christine had been shouted down and jones continued Justifying what was about to happen. The assassins returned and delivered the news that their mission was a success It's all over all over What a legacy what a legacy Mark the red brigades the only ones ever made any sense anyway They invaded our privacy. They came into our home. They followed the six thousand miles away

Rebegade showed them justice the congressman's dead With that dr. Schacht had his cue He flanked by his nurses walked out to the side of the stage with syringes filled with flavorade and cyanide The children were to be first Please get us the medication. It's simple. It's simple. There's no convulsions with it. It's just simple Just please get it before it's too late. The gdf will be here. I tell you get moving get moving get moving Don't be afraid to die if you're 50 people land out here. They'll torture some of our children here They'll torture our people. They'll torture our seniors. We cannot have this

The first one to go was a woman in her 20s carrying a months old baby in her arms She went willingly and took her child with her but not all the parents were so eager Armed guards forced them to the front where one by one nurses plunged the syringes full of cyanide into the children's mouths Parents were given the choice to go at the same time as their children a choice jones unironically called humane And despite what jones said it is a terrible death. It's cyanide You convulse your mouth fills with a foam of vomit and saliva and blood suffocating you drink to death It took each individual member of people's temple anywhere from five to 20 minutes to die And as this was happening as babies and toddlers and children were lying on the grass foaming from the mouth

People still praised jim jones I appreciate you for everything You're the only you are the only you're the only and I appreciate you Until the end there were people almost fighting to get to the microphone all to thank him And the banality continued. This is maria katsaris giving directions You have to move and the people that are standing there in the aisle go stay in the radio room yard But everybody get behind the table and back this way. Okay There's nothing to worry about very everybody keep calm and try and keep your children calm

And the older children can help love the little children and and reassure them I'm crying from pain. It's just a little bitter tasting, but they're they're not crying out of any pain Then when people started seeing what was actually happening the scope of it The enormity that this was actually real that whole families were dying before their eyes Jones rushed them Hurry hurry my children. Hurry All right. They just not following the hands of the enemy. Hurry my children Hurry the seniors out here that I'm concerned about hurry. I don't want to leave my seniors to this mess

Play quickly quickly quickly quickly quickly There are quite a few edits on the tape So it's hard to put forth a specific timeline Jones had a pause button on his microphone, which he seemed to turn on and off without reason And we don't know how long it took to murder all of the children in all the number of kids killed sits at 270 To put that into perspective That is 14 times more than the number of kids that died in the mirror building in Oklahoma City

We don't know how long it took to kill the kids, but we do know by the time the adults began They were still in the process These are the last recorded words of Jim Jones spoken as the adults began scooping cups full of poison Out of a bat with a big green sea printed on the side We've set an example for others. We've set 1 000 people say we don't like the way the world is Take our life from us. We laid it down. We got tired We didn't commit suicide. We came in an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world It's estimated that from the first syringe to the last cup, it took about four hours to kill the vast majority of the 909 who died

The number of survivors that day at Jonestown stood at seven It's four hours of the worst time in your life and so add that to the actual death by cyanide This is just it's terrifying. It's terrifying what what you can all lead to like all of this started as a guy just A guy just wanted to help people in indiana, I guess or a person that you know, do you remember when he was into airplanes? Jim jones was really into airplanes at seven. He could have been he could have worked for delta a lot has changed Yeah Now the carter brothers tim and mike they were sent with mike prox to georgetown with a suitcase full of cash That was to be delivered to the russian embassy tim carter found his wife and child

Moments after they'd taken the poison and they died in his arms and as they died he decided He was going to survive. Well, he was working on a plan to try to get them out because he realized what the fuck was happening When he got this detail allowing him to leave he was going to try and take them and when he found them like essentially like mid dying The way he described his he said his wife looked confused Like that's the thing that's like it fucks with me. There's like a thing about a bad idea where she was like What did I do like in the in the middle of it? Yeah Odell roads had simply walked up to the guards and said he didn't want to die They parted let him pass and said have a nice life

Jesus christ as far as like how many people are like we could have just done that I mean that's uh There's a lot of debate on that. Yes. So like how many people could have done that and how many people would have done that Yes Now as far as what odell saw that day. He said one girl refused to go quietly. She just kept spitting the poison out again and again and again Other survivors like stanley clayton said he saw people being injected Now bodies were found with needles bent in their arms Obviously injected by force

But grover davis who saved himself by hiding in a ditch said he saw everyone go more or less willingly So out of these survivors that we have that were there that day these seven people. There are different perspectives, of course The alex jones prototype mark lane talked his way past the guards by saying he needed to stay alive To tell the story of jones town That piece of shit hidden the jungle while the people he helped get to that point were dying on the ground thousands of miles from home Now the documentary paradise lost shows marshall and jones being dragged to the vat It's almost certain that it did not happen that way. That's something that fielding me g pointed out to me as well Most likely after seeing the destruction of her life. She took her drink willingly

Her body was found amongst her people The last group to die were the leadership and their children 13 of them including john victor stone whose custody status had helped precipitate this entire mess They walked around the compound with guns taking care of the animals before they went The 13 met their end in jim's cabin Some drank from a thermos filled with a potion some injected themselves and some did both either making sure it stuck Or proving one last time how much more dedicated they could be than the others Then there was jim jones himself

When they found him he was sprawled out on the pavilion his eyes no longer shielded by sunglasses Were staring upward and his head was resting on a pillow He had been killed by a single gunshot wound to the skull The only other person to be killed by gun that day in jones town was any more the last to die and most likely the one who killed jones According to the survivors who lay listening in the jungle Hours passed between the last and the second to last shot any seem to have been given the detail of Wrapping everything up. It seems that what she did was make sure all of the the inside circle was dead Like she administered probably shots and and gave it helped give out all of the poison

And then it seems like she killed jim jones and then put his head on a pillow Uh, I think she must have done that at the very end and then she was just uh doing last minute Shit yeah and those hours They found annie lying in jones' cabin blocking the door She'd either been wandering the grounds for hours taking in what they'd done or she'd spent her time inside crafting her suicide note Either way, she seemingly went to the grave still believing in jim jones The last line of her note written in different color ink than the rest read We died because you would not let us live

God Counting the people on the airstrip and those in georgetown the total dead on the order of jim jones was 918 that's where all of this ended. Wow Thankfully steven jones who deserves to be hailed as a hero spent all night on the phone with the san francisco office And no one there took their lives So in the end jim jones got only half of what he wanted He wanted to die and he wanted to take people with him and he got that But he didn't get the legacy

He wanted a grand revolutionary gesture that would inspire others that would make people see him as a great man What he got was a joke and a bad one at that He got pundits and politicians and writers smirking as they casually Shrink this tragedy down to one stupid thoughtless phrase that's become jim jones's biggest contribution to the world Don't drink the kool-aid. It's flavorate It's well, don't drink the flavorate either Shouldn't be drinking flavorate honestly because of the sugars But think about this shit man. Honestly, it's I actually I really love this ending Marcus

Because a part of it is that is that that's what he left the world with in the end He left the world with the shitty joke He left the world with people like us making commentary on him It's like it's like now which has become a genre of entertainment with it We're sitting on and we had no clue was going to be a genre like this man's whole legacy is Is garbage and he killed 918 people and now we have like I have a collection of pens with his face on it That says the kool-aid man. Oh, yeah underneath it and all that shit where it's like What a waste

A gigantic waste Well all sport is a horrible drink too Yes, remember all sport the future of drink. I had a I had a bit of a thing for all sport I like carbonated. I mean like gatorade is the best of all, but I'll take all sport over power in any day of the week All right, everyone. There it is the five parter. I'll tell you what I'm really excited for the next episode I'm excited

to do uh We got it something coming that's a of course something that's near and dear to my heart And I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, it's going to be a lot But on the other hand man like most of the time when we get to these long series like I'm so like oh god Like please let's move on to something else. But with this one like I'm I'm fascinated like this is I could have done One four more episodes on this. All right. Well, we'll call this point counterpoint. I'm good. Jonestown part five Finishing up the series great research guys unbelievable

Information do not get into this cult mentality people do it all the time and it still happens You got to make sure if you feel like one of your friends is slipping away Make sure that you address it and take care of it early on Yeah, because as soon as they get totally separated from you. There's nothing you can do I just did my first yoga class this like ashram getting yoga cut things fun. I want to get more flexible I like it, but I've definitely like I feel like I've accidentally joined a cult immediately And I've it's turns out I guess that's like a la thing Is that pretty much everybody just accidentally joins a cult like three or four times and you go? Oh, I'm sorry

I have to leave sure that um check please check please. I think froger. It's a cult froger is froger frozen So you're saying the cult of pinkberry how many bodies will they leave? No, try to tell us that oh the future of ice cream is dipping dots. I mean don't do it people Well, then you mentioned research and you know, I really want I had a lot of help on this one First I want to thank research assistant Rachel sue for tackling raven I want to thank fielding the gi at the jonestown institute for speaking with me and really opening up our eyes To a lot of different perspectives on the last days in the last year And I also want to thank carolina for spending hours searching through the transcripts of jonestown meetings

To find the excerpts that we played on this episode And finally I want to thank you the listener for coming along on this very long journey with us We very much appreciate it. Thank you guys so much and fuck. Thank you for everything Thank you so much. Carolina legally married after that. Is that like a thing? I think so crime legal marriage If you think listen, I think after they split there when thousands pickle together, they are legally married in the eyes of the poli All right, everyone, thank you so much for your support. Thank you for all the patreon subscribers without you None of this is possible Keep on supporting everyone here all the shows here on the lpn network ablingon's top

I want to thank everyone for being so kind. We put that in the feed here for the last podcast On the last podcast feed and we were a little bit nervous about it It's a different show, but it's marcus and i talk in politics and it's really fun We've had such a great feedback from it So thank you all so much and thanks for supporting page seven and all the other great shows here on lpn We really appreciate it. Yes, as always honestly and follow us on all of the various social media bullshits Uh on twitter at henry loves you at marcus parks at ben kissle on instagram at dr Fantasty at marcus parks at ben kissle number one and follow lp on the left

For all of the horseshit that is Speeding us towards the dystopia. I think we're living we are living in dystopia. We are we are we are in it We officially will be possibly having a military parade Because who doesn't love a parade? I think we entered it about six months ago. Well, well I I think the moment we got into the top five Podcasts of itunes. That's when the dystopia. Yeah, perhaps or maybe wasn't when Maybe it's amorosa spilling the beans on a reality show big brother. Who knows? We'll talk about that on top at what I will say

Is if I if this is a dystopia my favorite dystopia character, which I wish it could be is michael kane from children of men Or I want to be the guy that's got all the water and like he lives in a world of like of gates Like in like slatted gates, and then I wear like a big tub of water on my back And I suck it around being like things have been bad in the dry land for 27 generations. I want to be that guy That's fun. I want to have a lot of water If we get all the way to post apocalyptic, I just want to be three dog three dog All right, I'm gonna have all the chili Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. Helguin

Kill me If you have the energy Is there anybody not sick right now? No, I don't know. Is there anybody out there who doesn't have a cold? I don't have a cold, but I do have a pinched nerve. Hey, all right, but your violations, everyone