Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 322: Biggie and Tupac Part III - The Murders

Episode Date: June 23, 2018

​On the conclusion to our series, we talk about just how the murders went down, who the people behind them were, how we know the players involved, and why no one ever went down for the crimes. 

There's no place to escape to this is the last talk on the left That's when the cannibalism started I'll tell you what man what our generation what of rappers mm-hmm they used words True our rappers were serious and they had a right shit down or they thought about it They had to think of clever things to say that is why they're mumbling now to save their own ass. No I don't like the mumble rappers. Why not cuz it's just I could listen to that all day Hundreds of thousands of rappers who still use words. They're all they all use words

All right, this is the last podcast on the left I am Ben kissle and I usually say with Marcus parks and then we're like in the Los Angeles It's Henry Zabrowski, but today we're all together on the West Coast Marcus Parks and Henry Zabrowski. What's that? Hello, yeah, man. We're here now. You're in my territory. I love it. I have been walking so much It's like crazy because it's like a 38 minute walk and like a 90 second uber ride. Yeah, it's very confusing You're like a giant drunk Michael Landon from that old angel show Yeah, I want to thank Jim Jim and Eric for having me at their house this past Sunday for money in the bank And it was indeed money in the bank. I don't know if there's actually money in that bank

All right, we are a part 3 of biggie in Tupac and wow, I can't wait for all the information we're about to hear Yep, this is the end. Oh No, now a lot of times big bursts of gangland violence start off with something small in the case of the Tupac murder It started with a necklace an early summer 1996 a blood named Trayvon Lane had been shopping at a footlocker in the Lakewood Mall in LA with a couple of fellow gang members This does sound like the beginning of Romeo and Juliet, right? How? Because that's how the beginning of Romeo and Juliet. I don't recall Romeo and Juliet. Okay. All right. Got it and Trayvon was wearing a large diamond cut medallion featuring the death row records logo

Which was a piece of jewelry that chug night only gave out to his nearest and dearest can we get that what? What do you mean? Like how do we have a diamond budget? I don't not yet. No, no soon. You want necklaces? Yeah Yeah, cool. I'm down for it. I want to claim What does that mean Travis? Oh Yeah, that's a good point Unfortunately that day the footlocker was also being visited by a group of eight Crips led by a straight-up psychopath named Orlando Anderson who had been arrested for murder earlier that year in addition to being a suspect in numerous drive-bys How did he get out? How do you get arrested for murder earlier in the year?

Like how does that and don't you like have to stay there for a while? I think you can be such as I imagine he got out on bail I actually don't know the full story. I'm not sure about the full story either But yeah, plenty of times you can be arrested for murder and then they don't they can't actually charge you with the murder All right What happens a lot of times in specific communities like this is that you look like a guy that committed a murder and then they bring you in and They harass you for many hours and they release you that does happen in this case Orlando Anderson was definitely the type of guy Like he was suspected in many many many murders earlier in the year Now Orlando also happened to be key PD's nephew who if you'll remember is the source of all this information and

Orlando wanted that death row necklace now It's rumored that Puffy had put out a $10,000 bounty for whoever could bring him one But it's likely Orlando just wanted it as a personal trophy Puffy has got to stop using the Crips as his murder postmates He just says random shit out in the area It's a bunch of crips that is gonna go do shit for him. Get me dog the bounty hunter Give me dog the necklace hunter like what is that? Why is this all over a necklace? Yeah, all of this all of it starts right here That's crazy

Well either way the eight Crips stomped the three Bloods and Orlando came away with the death row necklace And with this the whole death row bad boy feud had reached the ground level and it was only a matter of time before it Bubbled its way back up to the surface Wow See none of these guys had record deals or big stars or anything like that at best. They were wannabes But now you had a Crip attacking a blood over a death row necklace in a street fight. Hmm and on September 7th 1996 Tupac voluntarily inserted himself right in the middle of this particular conflict with deadly results again Like Romeo and Juliet

It is like Romeo and Juliet and one wears blue and one wins red. Is that true? Oh, I see using the Capulets I think that may have been like a modern retelling. Do you bite your thumb at me? I want to get back to that bite in your thumb thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of fun because babies are fucking pissing me off Constantly biting their thumbs at me Well on that night Orlando Anderson Keefy D Shugnight and Tupac all attended the Mike Tyson fight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas Who was he fine? It was one of his three comeback fights after he went to prison, right, right, right? Yeah, maybe Evander or Evander was it?

It was a no-name guy that I can't remember his name at all But he was the heavyweight champion and this was for the heavyweight title. It was parfait Johnson No, even though that million-dollar bounty was definitely on Keefy's mind Keefy did not go to Las Vegas to kill Tupac and Shug Okay, he along with his nephew Orlando were just there to see the fight apparently it was an annual Crip vacation that they would go on they all would go in buses and that was true Apparently they would they never missed a fight in the league so they all get together and they'd get parental slips I'm sure everybody on the bus or how do you count everybody, right?

Because there was definitely Keefy D with the clipboard being like yep. Yep. Leave your gun on the sidewalk What I say to you throwback Get on in get on it. All right. That was true They did actually leave all of their guns at home. So none of these guys were there armed really It's like that Johnny Cash song. Mm-hmm. Don't take your guns to town or to the Mike Tyson fight. You see Johnny Cash song I say Kenny Rogers song. We'll talk about that after the show. Oh And that's another moment in white male conversation So after Tyson whipped his opponent in less than two minutes and about that was almost certainly a fix

Tupac and Shug were making their way out to their car to attend the opening of Shug's new nightclub club 662 which stood for if you look at the numerical numbers on a telephone MOB. Yeah, really? Mm-hmm. Yeah, run DMC was supposed to perform and Shug night was planning on talking to run DMC to sign them as the first Artists on death row East. Oh, they're too nice for that Back in the day. They really ribbity wraps were scorching everybody. I guess I just don't see run DMC in the gangster rap world But I guess so well I mean at that point Shug night was actually he was trying to expand You know, it wasn't necessarily that you know, not everybody on death row records was necessarily a gangster rap

Oh, when you read original gangsters the book you see that there was many other flavors in the hip hop community They're trying to do it like they had girl groups They had a bunch of difference death row was trying to expand and trying to add more sound to it because at the time Gangster rap was was obviously a huge trend, but it was just one of the trends Okay, it really wasn't until the murders that it became as massive as it did makes sense. All right and at that fight as Shug night and Tupac were leaving. That's when the violence began I gotta say it's never a good time when the when the Mike Tyson fight isn't the most violent moment of the night

Yes, that should always be the most violent moment of any night the Mike Tyson fight But I guess not in this case So Trayvon Lane who was the one who'd gotten his chain stolen and was known as a bit of a shit stirrer Spotted Orlando Anderson in the casino After seeing Orlando Anderson Trayvon went and told Tupac and Shug because that's the thing about Some of the guys that were interviewed about this Trayvon Lane guy They said like yeah, he never did shit himself All he did was talk shit and start fights and then run away when the fighting started, okay?

They had a bunch of these guys That's kind of what the outlaws was made out of like the outlaw group that was Tupac's like crew They all rose like get him pop get him pop They're building them up because they're all acting like true True fucking ride or die doledges right and they got fucking because they used to follow around in a van Mm-hmm filled with drugs and guns because Tupac never be caught with the van right guns or drugs So they have to follow them everywhere like a Blake I imagine a John Panette would do with the van filled with Chinese food

He was large so they're like get him pop and then pop just pulls out a quill and starts to write because I mean He's just a scribe. Yes, like this is not the guy that should be the most aggressive person in the room Well, some of the outlaws Were like really egging them on but others were like men you need to be careful like some of them were actually like looking at What was going around say like men you're playing with fire here? You need to calm down a little bit kid now It's impossible to know just what Tupac's motivations for his next act actually were It could be that Tupac was actually standing up for his friend with you know the friend that got his necklace stolen

Mm-hmm, or it could be that he was just hyped up from the fight and got caught up in the moment Dude, okay, he wrote the ring entrance song for Mike. He did so you're you watch you just listen to yourself Play before Mike Tyson beat this shit out of a guy He came out the guy in under a minute like it was one of two minutes It was a crazy one of was one of his comeback fights Okay, he was just unstoppable coming out of prison and so you're all like being pumped up It's like I'm on my way to the pierogi festival Right in my big pierogi car from a shape-fucking limo that I'm going into like outside because I've declared the mayor of Poland for one day

Right and they're playing Bob Seager's rambling man on there and the God knows what I'm gonna be capable of Just want to eat that pierogi car of yours Well either way Tupac put no thought whatsoever into Inserting himself in the middle of a petty street rivalry over a necklace Oh, man, he ran to the casino floor found Orlando asked you from the south and punched him sending him straight to the floor So should caught up with his entourage and toe jumped in and a whole contingent of death row and blood gang members Kicked and punched Orlando is he was on the ground when they felt he'd had enough They ran got into their car and went to their hotel

There is very little goofy about shug except for the footage from that Vegas nightclub and watching shug walk run Because he looks like a bear with a brain tumor that is like on its like back He's got little arms, you know just kind of swinging back and forth and he's trying to hustle as much as possible Yes, that's what I that's what I do every time I cross the street in LA. I'm just like man, and I think I actually move slower Well, meanwhile Orlando was licking his wounds with his uncle Keefe when Puffy's associate zip showed up Remember zip. Yes zip code always and since Orlando was already keyed up and ready to strike back immediately Zip who was the one who introduced Puffy to Keefe? Figured this was the perfect opportunity to cash in on that million dollar bounty

Hmm because remember at this point of what the investigators knew about Keefe D is that Keefe D What they had because Orlando Anderson had been a suspect for a long time, okay? But investigators had spoken to Keefe D and Keefe D said like no after they got into the fight I hung out with Orlando and Orlando wanted to go take revenge, but I calmed him down Okay, we went home. All right, and then when Keefe D talked to Greg cating that's when he said that's all bullshit. This is what actually happened Oh, right and so zip opened up a secret compartment on the armrest of his car pulled out of 40 caliber Glock and handed it to Keefe D because remember nobody had guns the whole thing is that everybody left their artillery at home

So this was a this guy. I mean obviously everyone's got one It's always like every bit in every comedy movie when the lead dude walks through the metal detector And he has to pull the gun out of the sock Everyone's got one now as I said everyone knew two pock and sugar headed a club 662 that night And so Orlando Keefe D and a couple other guys named Terrence Brown and Deandre Smith hopped in a white Cadillac And went out searching. Hmm. They found their targets as two pock was hanging out of the sunroof of Shug's BMW Without a care in the world Now two pock had first been spotted by a car full of fans who started yelling to pock's name

Which is what caught the attention of the assassins. Now. These were beautiful women fans. Yes This was not like me So upon hearing the girls the assassins made a U-turn and pulled up next to two pock and Shug's BMW Keefe sitting on the passenger side Handed the Glock to Orlando who is in the seat behind him And Orlando leaned across the other guy in the back seat and fired the gun 13 times into the side of the BMW Geez four bullets found their way to two pock Keefe's car then sped away in one of two pock's other guards gave chase a short gun battle ensued

But Keefe and his crew got away They then parked the car cleaned up the shell casings and walked back down to the scene to watch the aftermath Yeah, they said they sat and they watched out the chaos a little bit and then each one back to the hotel room got drunk It's my smoke weed all night. Yeah, and didn't really tell anybody what they had done Well, I don't think you can now but honestly those women were called them out They said they were hanging they lost them for a while like as they were trying to follow them over to 662 And they lost them and because it's so casual for them a beginning because it's even the dischoice to kill them was casual They were like, yeah, let's go get that million dollars right now

And then they lost them so they're just hanging on a parking lot. I know her there. It was pop pop But from all the women screaming on the street, and they're like Why don't we go get them now? Yeah, it's all over a necklace and it just happened that fast I think it was two weeks maybe one week How long do you think the decision process was before there were like let's do it like was it just like minutes minutes? Yeah, it was just like let's go look for it was like What is it the assassination of Franz Ferdinand where the assassin wasn't able to like the assassin didn't get there in time or the gun Jammed or something like that and so they decided to scuttle the whole the whole assassination

And then one of the assassins was getting a sandwich and Franz Ferdinand's car had broken down in front of the sandwich shop Yeah, all right. Well now we can do it. Yeah, we do it Which also shows because they're young too because a part of it They're young and impulsive and the same thing what we found out when you listen to a Dan Carlin's hardcore history talking about World War one a lot of that is the kind of idea of like your view the black hand is this like group of terrorists that started World War One, but actually there were a bunch of kids. Yeah, same in this situation. Yeah So shook had only been grazed by a bullet so he was able to hit the gas But since one of the wheels had been hit he lost control and crashed into the concrete meridian blowing the wheels out further

And when the cops showed up to the scene though They immediately assumed shook and his crew were the perpetrators So they threw them to the ground and handcuffed them as Tupac set bleeding in the passenger side seat They said what a very important because obviously, I mean again, it's one of those bullshit things They showed up and they assumed everybody was a suspect like they didn't view anybody as his crew They thought those are the people that had shot him right so everybody was forced to lie down on the ground And they said the one what one of his friends one of the outlaws said that one of them that was so Kind of it was unsettling but also weirdly settling was how calm

Tupac was as he was bleeding in death because he had been shot before so he's sitting there like literally just been like It's gonna be okay. It's good like he was calming down everybody else while he was like lying in his own blood Yeah, I remember a shug knight had said later that he was trying to get him to the hospital He's like, you know sugar era Tupac you're gonna be you're gonna be okay, and Tupac said shit man You're the one that got shot in the head Like let's get you look we need to get you some attention That's where he got shot grazing him. Oh, he was really lucky. Yeah, he was extreme He was extremely lucky and it also goes further to disprove the theory that shook night was the one who ordered to hit

Is that I tell you what ice tea standing next to those mannequins and that's special that is all I need to know about that And when the ambulance arrived Tupac was still conscious But he soon slipped into a coma and six days later one of the most influential voices of the decade was dead Largely due to a series of events that had started in a footlocker just a few weeks before you mean dead tired hanging out in a hotel In Cuba making his posthumous albums. Oh, what is this now? I'll get into it later. Oh, oh, this is the Tupac still alive there Yes, there's quite a bit. I want that to be true. So I might entertain that way There's very good. There's a very good reason why there's so much posthumous material, but we'll get into that later Now Tupac dying that wasn't the only consequence here since Orlando was a Crip and Tupac was along with the Bloods

Tupac's murder caused a full-on gang war. The Bloods called the War Council and declared open season on Crips Weirdly another symbolism to a weirdly another connection to World War one because it's very similar for the idea of the Balkan powder Cagging the idea of all these things are purposely aligned to each other and all basically everybody's just waiting for somebody else to fuck up And they're like well, we've created this political system So the fact that it would keep war from happening because if war does happen It's total war. Yeah, and so something like this is like waiting for that. They're we're waiting for the moment for it to fucking pop That's crazy a war council war war never changes. No, man. War's held What's what's so civil about war anyway? Yeah? Yeah

So in the days and weeks after Tupac's murder more than a dozen people were shot Including a ten-year-old girl who was hit by a straight bullet the girl lived but three people ended up in the morgue Hmm now this was most likely not on the directive of Shugna It definitely wasn't on the orders of Puffy But that almost makes it worse because the rhetoric had become real the fire had gotten out of control and regular people were hurt and killed for it Hmm. Now supposedly Puffy. Oh, he was pleased as punch when he heard the news. Please just punch That's a good term for yeah, that's exactly what Puffy said. He said I am pleased as punch. I tell you what I'm fit to skip Oh

Barely when when they called him up and told him when someone called him and told me he's like was that us was that oh that was us Holy shit, that's great. Oh, but here's why I think it's possible that Puffy was never really serious about this He never paid the bounty. No, or at least never paid Keefy D Yeah, and that's why Keefy didn't feel too bad telling the story to Greg Kating It is a million felonies Anyone to shoot someone well obviously he wanted to peer hard on the phone Like you know someone called him told the news. I was like hell. Yeah, you know, we did it good work, man That was my that's what my doledgers do and then at the end of it. It's like if you don't pay

It's like you didn't you weren't a part of it Because they kept looking for the money and then Puffy would kind of be like You're never gonna get the money. Yeah, don't like do do not shoot anyone for hire Yeah, I mean I could only imagine what Puffy's actual reaction was when he put up the fire. Oh Oh, no, what's the opposite of please this punch? Fuck the shit But Biggie on the other hand he was absolutely Heartbroken over Tupac's death. I mean they said he cried when he heard he wrote songs about it In fact like at Biggie's funeral

They played the instrumental instrumental version of a song that to that biggie had actually written for Tupac It's very sad because they were really close and and Biggie from interviews afterwards He didn't really understand what the whole thing was about like he kind of went out of control and the the idea of Him knowing what happened with the robbery like the idea that he helped orchestrate the robbery or hide the robbery Against Tupac when the when they went to go visit him at the the record company where they're gonna do the recording Yeah, the Quad City studio. Yeah, the Quad City studio studio's incident is that number one If Biggie knew it was gonna happen. There was nothing that he could even do about it Yeah, that kind of that's a part of his that he told him not to fuck with Haitian Jack

Everybody said don't fuck with Haitian Jack because he's actually real Tupac You're not actually a gangster yet. Just like you can't do this shit Like you have to be careful what you're playing with and but or he didn't know at all And it was a completely just a coincidence and it was and they use that information against him And so Biggie like that was his mentor Yeah, how far out of their friendship is this because they were close buddies, right? And then they had a split like two years something like that And I think like Biggie probably always assumed like he's gonna come around right all this shit's gonna blow over

He's gonna come around and then we'll be friends again and all this shit's gonna be fine because it's almost Guaranteed that Biggie had nothing to do with Tupac sure multiple friends of both said in the documentary as I watched that the Whole thing could have stopped if they had just somehow met up in a club and had like ten minutes alone Yeah, where they could sit and talk to each other But they wouldn't Tupac I honestly feel like he wouldn't let it like he was so now the ball was rolling And he was he was feeling he was feeling the power of having that like touch on violence and being able to like spread his Like it spread his power and because when you come from a place of powerlessness when you come from a Childhood where you are displaced and you don't know who you are and you're trying to find yourself and in your desperate for

For money to get the fuck out of where you were and your and your mom's a fucking drug addict You don't know what to do and so I imagine that they become very intoxicating. Yeah, yeah I understand that he's also got a ton of anger that he's dealing with like Tupac has a ton of anger because you know You got to remember he's 25 years old I mean, I know all of us were probably very angry people at 25 and not dealing with the shit that we went through and we Were kids and we didn't go through an ounce of what Tupac went through. Yeah, you know So it's really I mean, it's it's hard to judge like kind of behavior like this I absolutely he absolutely like he got himself into a bad situation

But it's also kind of hard to judge like it's hard to tell him you should have known better, of course Yeah, but it's still it's just what happened young folks Now even though Biggie had nothing to do with Tupac's murder in the eyes of Shug Knight that didn't matter Puffy had taken Shug's biggest artist. So now Shug was gonna take his Oh gosh, but Shug had a problem since he participated in the very public and very well documented beating Orlando Anderson that happened in the middle of the MGM Grand Casino. No, no, there's no cameras in casinos I promise you that I apparently the judge found me guilty of bear walking Yeah, because yeah, it was it was

Captured by eight different angles. Yeah, it should pro got revoked and And because of that he got sentenced to nine years in prison. No kidding Dude, I always imagine it like fucking juggernaut Would they have him like in the chains in his arms and the changer on his necks with the big poles? Like a tattoo of Molly's like being let in and everyone's like inmate 479 479 and the big fucking velociraptor holding doors up and up So Shug was in prison, how did he make the murder of Biggie Smalls happen? That's the question. Well, remember Cating's job wasn't to solve Tupac's murder His first job was to solve the murder of Biggie and although no one was arrested in either case

Cating managed to put Biggie to bed as well. Okay Now Cating hadn't given what he knew about the Tupac murder over to the Las Vegas Police Department just yet Because given over the information met losing key PD as a source and Cating knew that Las Vegas Police Department's reputation for not Giving a fuck about this case and also Cating had a a lot of experience in building these gigantic multi-faceted Investigations because it we what we learned about him like the book goes deep into the whole him Investigating the supermarket guy like a basically a supermarket tycoon that was running coke out of the back of the supermarkets all throughout Los Angeles and he learned how to how you properly

Filter and and and sort out the information that it takes from a multi-legged investigation and he knows that he can't he knows that he Can't give up something precious as a source like if he did well now that Cating knew that Puffy was at least partly responsible for Tupac It was a pretty safe bet to say that chug was behind Biggie All Cating needed was for someone to talk and he found that someone in Teresa Swan Swan was a longtime associate of chug Knight who was one of his many Accomplices in the various white-collar schemes chug was operating around the Los Angeles area Okay, because chug Knight wasn't just making records He also had like half a dozen to a dozen scams running at all times. Look a super busy guy. Yeah

Okay, yeah, yes chug Knight was a fault like he was a criminal mastermind Okay, he had all these different people like running different like fraud like car insurance schemes and like loan schemes all kinds of shit Oh, all right, and swan besides just being a part of all this white-collar crime She and chug actually had a daughter together But in the years after Tupac's murder despite the millions upon millions of Tupac and dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg records sold. Yeah death row crumbled to the ground Well, eventually forcing chug Knight to declare bankruptcy. Why couldn't chug just make all of his money with death row? I don't understand why he had like sounds like he was like stressing himself out. It's not fun

It's a fun kiss. Oh, oh record isn't fun. No He had other dreams Car insurance scam game. Yeah, that's real records. I'm I think I'll focus on the rap But it's like that we do this show together Yeah, you also have a secret desire to also go to flavor town, right? You want to eat rib stick and meals and talk about it on a television show. It's out of bounds. Yeah, yes And I do I want to follow my dreams. I want to get back into dance I have the tiny feet of a dancer. When were you in dance? When were you in when I wasn't good at baseball?

Okay, so he was spreading himself pretty thin here. Yeah, I mean come on Ben Like why would you make millions producing records and creating art when you can make $20,000 on a car insurance scheme? Yeah, we can be like super cool or like if we thought about doing a payday Payday spend or payday loan scam. Yeah, that's what they were doing shit like that Man, because he wanted he wanted to do it because it made him fit So I like a lot of these guys do this shit because it makes him feel cool All right guys up with this what we got another beach. We get a bunch of rocks No, I'm listening how much are free rocks free right free. Yeah, how much are just even just several packets of a googly eyes

Free no wait, maybe maybe $20. No you fucking asshole We steal them from the back of a fucking Michaels, right? Glue them to the rocks free free rocks dollar a piece, right? So I'm out and we call them Something like a like a friend rock. You know like this is my rock wife You know, I mean you sell rock what you want to sell rock wife. Yeah for a dollar Honestly, that could probably sell that's pure profit. I mean it's already been done because we're stealing everything. Yeah, and then it's rocks, okay Well, when shook declared bankruptcy, he neglected to include some death row master tapes in his assets

Did he neglect or did he do it on purpose? Yeah, did purposely neglectful. Yeah And Teresa Swan was the one who had helped keep these death row master tapes hidden like they had a storage locker in Minnesota or something like that Really? Yeah, and in addition to that She was also under investigation for fraud in one of those goofy white-collar crime cases that Shug Knight had put her on Okay, can you imagine being outside of that Greyhound bus station in Minnesota and just watching the stretch hummer coming out with the fucking guy in the electric chair spain pray fucking spray painted on the side of it like rolled up to it Me like someone's using the secret bank again Wonder what they are doing

Hello, Mr. Sugar Bear. I'm gonna see you again. Thank you for coming down here to Towers, Michigan It's been lovely to have you around. It's a very very nice bus station And it was with these two investigations the bankruptcy investigation and the fraud investigation The cating brought in the LA County Sheriff's Department on one side and the IRS on the other and use those two guys to apply pressure on Teresa swan that'll do it. Yeah, good Lord. The choice he gave was simple help us or go to jail and lose your kids forever So after the second meeting Teresa fully admitted that she knew who killed Biggie Smalls Because she was the one who had hired and paid the assassin on Shug's directive Well, this guy this assassin his name was Wardell

Poochie foos and He was an enforcer suspected of multiple murders on Shug night's payroll Well, in fact, it was said that Poochie murdered an aspiring rapper named William rat Ratcliffe Just for a knowing Shug night. Why do I think that sounds like a fat guy with a mustache? I've been working for the goddamn garbage company for 30 fucking years now, and I'll tell you one thing I've stolen every goddamn thing I've ever wanted a Rat believed he deserved to be on death row records and it started following sugar on town

He even wants cornering Shug in a bathroom to make a very aggressive pitch. I know you're pissing man I know you're pissing but listen listen, okay? It's songs about how I got soft bones I'm a rat I know you're trying to shit. All right. Why you shouldn't net your own no sugar. I mean you could do whatever Oh But this is about cheese It's about cheese. I would listen to rat Ratcliffe rap about cheese every day of my life well

Shug night did not Finally he just shook just got tired of it and called up Poochie and said take care of rat No kidding and the next day rat was gunned down and killed in the middle of Central Avenue and Compton That's how much power sugar. Yes. Absolutely. I mean money. Oh, you can do a lot of things with money At least I it would have been fun if he was just found glued And you know what since we're in LA I get that joke that's a funny joke RIP rat We love you you could have done great things Now it was said that Poochie would show up have a quiet conversation with shug get his marching orders and leave

Pretty soon after that someone would show up dead So if there was anyone shug was gonna turn to for this job It was Poochie. Hmm. And by the way, all of this was corroborated and checked by Greg cating We just don't have time to go into like the methods because his theories Unlike, you know pool his theories aren't complicated, but his methods are very complicated What's the name of the book again murder rap murder read murder rap because it is a very good summation of how a cop goes through layer by layer of an investigation like this Yeah, it's fascinating stuff, but you know, we just don't have time. We're not a police procedural show

So if you're like super in a police procedural stuff, like it's fascinating. All right So six months after Tupac's murder Biggie Smalls and Puff Daddy were in Los Angeles on business Most of the time was spent recording and filming the video for the recently released mega hit hypnotize Oh, yeah, but the most fateful event that week was the Soul Train Awards That was very stressful for Biggie Yeah, because when he came into town because partially like they knew they wanted to shoot in LA because there was a period of time where they were like We're gonna try and fix the bad blood that's happening here so a part of it's gonna be we're gonna shoot a video in LA and

Pay all the requisite gangs and all the shit that that we have to pay in order to get like like what you do with the teamsters We basically pay them to not shut your streets down Yes, and so you go and you deal with shit But he was really nervous and hanging around in his hotel all the time not wanting to go out Also, he was broke as fuck really because he had spent all his money That's the one thing about having these sizes of entourages and shit is that all these motherfuckers are getting paid Yeah, so they all have and all of this shit costs money the cars and the hotels and the production Yeah, and he was also house poor as well

He had bought this huge house for his mom out in T-neck and he was also under investigation by the FBI For other all kinds of other bullshit. So he was stressed He was I think it's safe to say that he was very stressed And there'd actually been you know a couple of there been a couple of attempts by the rap community in Between the Tupac murder and the Biggie murder to kind of put it all to bed But I mean but it also was it was shit like you know Puffy and Snoop Dogg we're on an episode of the Steve Harvey show together Mm-hmm, and that was about it. They tried They tried I mean it was fun. Yeah, it was a fun. I watched it. It was a fun episode

He just made them give goofy answers and then he'd give that Steve Harvey look down the pipe of the camera though All I know is as soon as I get money, I'm going to buy Steve Harvey suits Oh, he looks good. You can actually get them. Yeah, I can show you where to buy them Well Shug Knight knew that Biggie was gonna be an LA that week because Biggie had been slated to present an award to Tony Braxton on that night on March 8th at the Soul Train Awards All right, and Shug knew that Biggie wouldn't be able to pass up the scheduled Vibe magazine after-party at the Peterson Auto Museum Thing was Biggie almost didn't make it out to the night at all See he was actually supposed to be in London because Puffy had booked him for a promotional tour in England in anticipation of his upcoming album

Life After Death because that's the thing life after death came out what a week after he was killed Yes, man, it sucked that it worked because then I want I think it went diamond It wouldn't I think both that and ready to die went dime But definitely life after death went went diamond by the time he was there hypnotized like that's what another thing like hypnotized came out Which you know hypnotized was one of the biggest hits of the 90s. We all know what of course We all know it by heart, but I think that came out like a week before he was killed was it called life after death Yeah, that was like the working title because it was an homage to Tupac. Oh, I see. Okay. I've been banging fucking life after death

Since we started doing these episodes. I fucking love that. Yeah, but Biggie had canceled the London trip in part because Biggie said the Food in England was horrible He is not wrong. No, I actually know what is that is that too critical London is was good It was Glasgow where the food is difficult, but Glasgow is a very fun fucking place Yes, which I also know that Anthony Bourdain and recently watched the episode of a parts of known on Glasgow That was his favorite city get out of here. Yeah, it's a great place, but really yeah, it's awesome Yeah, it's a cool place, but the food was It was just it was different

I just said that place that has the McDonald's arches But all it sells is a pureed sausage in a pastry the actually saying the good parts No, Glasgow was wonderful. It was great to meet everyone Well, even though Biggie went to the Soul Train Awards He was planning on skipping the vibe after party. Okay in the end though the promise of networking brought him out Well, he wanted to be an actor. Yeah, he wanted to follow in Tupac steps because I mean this whole time like too But Biggie is following Tupac steps Tupac is a mentor and he also really looked up to Tupac as a guy who had made it Man, now the party the vibe after party was held at the Peterson Auto Museum on Wilshire and Fairfax in Los Angeles

And was by most accounts pretty good time. It sounds like a really fun time get hammered and pretend to drive like nice cars Mr. Zabrowski, will you please? That is my party! I'm Mayor Polin today! This is my karaoke parade! But the what's fun about that party is I like the breakdown in the Original gangsters when it talks with the woman that runs the museum. It's like, okay, we have it all planned out for 1,000 people We've got a little outdoor area in case some people want to smoke And then 2,000 people showed up immediately and so it was jam-packed Wow, and there were and also not just jam-packed inside but also jam-packed outside

Like there were a couple thousand people outside trying to get in so it was chaotic No one got hurt or anything like that, but but it was absolutely chaotic total mayhem Because eventually like after the overcrowding got too bad. They kept the fire marshal came in so like all right Everybody's got to get out of here like this. This is too much And you know it's serious because I have my fireman's head And I will not be roasted! I will not be roasted by the likes of you! Pull up your pants sir. I'm sorry. I said it All right everyone Now the details of the Biggie Smalls murder from the perspective of the assassins are pretty much unknown

Because Greg Cating was never able to talk to Poochie the way he was able to talk to Keefe D Okay, all we know is the setup During a visit to the prison where he was being held Shug had ordered Teresa Swan to hire Poochie for the murder of Biggie Smalls on that night specifically So he did all this stuff behind bars all behind bars. So when Biggie and Puffy left the vibe party to head back to their hotel Poochie was waiting Now even though both murders happened right after huge events with tons of people around right the Biggie scene Was a little more chaotic and as we know with chaos comes conspiracy

There are so many different storylines because that's a part of with Biggie and Tupac Was a part of really wrapping your brain around which we were kind of rolling out with this the structure of these episodes is that There were so many Little circumstances. Yeah that played out on this night that made many wild theories happen that Greg Cating had to go and Chasedown one by one and figure out if it was real or not Hmm and you know there's that I think it was a Chris Rock joke or something like that where they say like oh You know they got shot There were so many people and nobody saw anything. See that's the thing is that that's actually hindrance

The problem is that everybody saw something and eyewitness reports is you know according to police officers Eyewitness reports are worse than useless like they can maybe put you on the track But you also have 2,000 different accounts that all contradict with each other. Hey man. Hey man. I know shot big Yeah, I know shot big you did it. It's 12 feet tall He's made out of licorice As far as I'm concerned. It's a licorice monster. Yeah. Yeah, man. Scary as shit never saw something like that My life wrote a scary book about it called the licorice man Yeah, you should buy it

So publish amazon.com Just look up my name Henry Zabrowski. It's me. I will totally buy that book Now a lot of the big conspiracy theories tend to center around two incidents that night and both serve as prime Example as to how easy it is to force conspiracy into a situation when you have a conclusion You want to jump to okay? See for years one of the big claims about the biggie Smalls murder was that there was no way that it could have been perpetrated by a Bunch of simple street tufts Mm-hmm the story went that the whole thing was too well planned and too well

Executed for anyone other than professionals to pull off so fucking condescending so condescending where it's like you know You have to be a trained police officer In order to really put forth like the type of execution that you see in this sort of case like regular people could never do this Well, why was it so good? Why what happened? They are trained assassins Okay, yeah, and that's they said is that you know having professionals that meant a coordinated effort And that comes complete with distractions decoys and subterfuge and the first of these Was the behavior of a 1995 Toyota Landcruiser hmm as biggie in his caravan We're pulling away from the Peterson Museum a Toyota Landcruiser made a u-turn and tried to cram its way into the caravan

Which would have cut biggie security personnel off biggie's tail making him vulnerable Wow, but that cruiser was not filled with elite agents In fact the passengers were just a couple of hangers on named Scott Shepard and Ernest Anderson Yeah, it literally was the two things that happened every single time you're in LA Which is a guy that wants to make a movie of your life that is a terrible idea Right and another guy that just wants you to come and perform at his birthday party for free Yeah, there was one guy that said that he had a big plan to turn biggie's birthday into a big celebration We're all gonna make a lot of money doing this and the other guy was a screenwriter

They're just like hey man. We sit down together. We're gonna. I'm gonna write a screenplay It's gonna be the biggest thing in your life. You're gonna love this. Listen biggie. Listen biggie I love what you got love your story. Love everything about love your struggle. Love your music. Here's my thing What if you were a dinosaur? There's a big dinosaur market going on we get attached to the Jurassic Park release it came out in 1994 That's a biggie as a dinosaur man. I wish he was still alive We could see that now these guys have been following biggie since the soul train awards And they were only trying to shoehorn themselves in a biggie's caravan

So they wouldn't lose them on the way to the next party because they didn't because the next party that biggie and And puffy were supposed to go to it was like an after after party at a record producer's house So these guys were just trying to make sure they got in there because they weren't taking over an answer that night And that's what you had to do in the 90s Otherwise you had to go home wait for someone to call your landline Mm-hmm be told where to go. Maybe you had a beeper. Yeah in which case you still needed a landline Mm-hmm interesting. Also, they were not gonna go to that party. Yeah, they would actually biggie and it already decided He was too tired because at this point. He was three hundred and sixty pounds. Oh, yeah, and he he had a car Lee Farley face here

Yeah, he was three hundred and sixty pounds. He had just gotten into a bad car accident So he was walking with the cane all the time. Like yeah, biggie was not doing well at this point at all and these guys like they were They were pretty much like they were trying to shoehorn their way into the caravan and then when the shots came They got scared and drove off as fast as they could looking suspicious as hell And they since they drove off and since no one knew who they were they created a mystery Sure only got solved when these two fessed up and admitted to the embarrassing details Oh my god, I've decided to write a movie called the runaway men

Listen to me listen to me guys because what do they say? I run away and I live to play another day This is the other day All right So the other distraction that night put forth by conspiracy theorists was a black Bronco seen on orange Grove earlier that night Witnesses said they saw someone fire a single shot into the air from the Bronco right before biggie's murder Which would have been a possible decoy, okay, but the explanation for that one is even dumber than the last Oh, turns out the driver of the car was just one of the thousands of gatecrashers who were trying to force their way into the Vi party this guy parked

Opened the door to his Bronco when he did that his pistol fell out onto the ground But that's not how the shot happened. It's even dumber than that Oh, no instead of just putting it back into his car and thinking well I'll check that out later. The dude picked up the gun and just fired into the air to make sure it still worked Why we need gun training Honestly, I'm such a proponent of that although. I do love a good celebration that does have a lot of involved shooting to the sky The celebration is the gun still work Like when we saw Sedan who's saying shooting the gun up in the air when he was happy

Didn't you feel happy? Well, we need a net we need to make it for the bullet. I don't Well, we know about this whole situation because that same dude still armed still carry in the pistol drove up to the cops after Biggie's murder and asked hey who got shot You know my gun still works click click click click click. I should have loaded it Big gulps, huh? See the cops like they searched him. They'd search his car. They found the gun And he admitted to it on the spot because they looked at the gun. They saw that a bullet was missing

They're like was that you and he was like, yeah Why would this guy approach the cops after illegally shooting a gun because he's dumb enough to shoot his gun Even still work. All right, and this right here. This was a matter of record from the beginning Okay, because for years this was until Greg Cating like uncovered it for years. This was a Mystery like it was one of those big parts of like conspiracy theory Okay, but Greg Cating just looked into the reports for that night and found it and found this report and was like, oh shit That's the gunshot. That's it. That's all it was Wow The conspiracy theory wormhole for Biggie and Tupac is massive. Yeah, like the more you go onto YouTube and I tell you what man

It isn't they are serious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're what's what well, we'll get into the conspiracy. Maybe a little bit later Yeah, I think yeah, Henry's got some that he wants to I have a couple good fact toys. I Mean the sad reality of all this is that it wasn't some huge conspiracy orchestrated by the LAPD or the FBI or any other governmental agency in the end It was a guy named Poochie and here's how it all went down All right, so following the breakup of the Vibe party Biggie and Puffy decided they were gonna go skip the after party and head Back to the hotel to get a good night's sleep for some recording the next morning Okay

Puffy was in the lead car with Biggie behind him and a suburban and a couple more cars behind Biggie Caravan came to a stop at an intersection and as they waited for the light to turn a green and Paula pulled up next to Biggie Suburban and according to a witness the driver extended the gun out of his window using his right hand and fired six shots Four hit Biggie in minutes later. He was dead and according to both Teresa Swan and other sources Again read murder rap for all that that driver was Poochie so Why were there no arrests when it came to Poochie Fuss in the Biggie case or Orlando Anderson in the Tupac case? Good question. You've asked yourself Marcus. Why are there no arrests when it came to Poochie Fuss in the Biggie case or Orlando Anderson in the Tupac case?

I did kissles bit. Well, there's a very good reason for that Both of them Poochie and Orlando were killed years before Greg Cating's task force was even formed. Yeah, dude Oh Everybody was dead most of the key witnesses and all the most of the key good players and this whole thing died before the case got reopened Yeah, yeah, Poochie. He got it ten times in the back and Compton in 2003 Geez and Orlando He was gunned down over a drug debt less than two years after the murder of two Tupac

Was the death of Poochie tied to like the Biggie totally different none of that None of these deaths were tied to anything having to do like it was just regular gang like I mean these guys don't live long I know we're gonna cover Iceman in the near future that assassin. How many people do you think Poochie actually killed no idea? No, I mean no clue but enough where people knew enough where like Poochie didn't hang out He wasn't like a good time hangout guy, but enough where He came around and showed gave him orders where people knew like oh, that's Poochie Poochie kills dudes. Okay. Yeah, and also they are You know what's interesting about drive-bys to a lot of times It's kind of like in war

Again where it's like when you shoot at people a lot of the times it seems like you don't really know if you've killed them or not Yeah, you don't really find out till afterwards. Yes, when you go in a lot of times drive-bys are Warnings and meant to scare you and they're gonna get whoever they can get and so you'll shoot into a car and not know How many people you're murdering in the process? So I imagine he didn't know how many that he murdered you could probably tell you by his Invoices that he gave to his accountant. Yes, go to his paperwork for his taxes and look at you nines And you can figure out how many he was ordered to do but it makes sense though, right? Because folks are like it was a trained assassin, but it really was a trained assassin. I mean Poochie was a pro

Yeah, Poochie was an absolute pro. Yeah, and he was a yeah He was shot 10 times in the back He was on his motorcycle at a stoplight and someone just walked up popped him and then walked up and popped 10 more Like Poochie a guy that kills that many people is gonna make a few enemies. I think so Yeah, and Orlando is just being reckless, you know, he was there were a couple of guys that owed him some money He went up he you know started talking shit He pulled his gun they pulled theirs and they fucking wasted him There is some word that Orlando as well

Believed in his own mythos after killing Tupac and became to believe that he was invincible Yeah, it was and it was also one of those things where like it was like. Oh, so yeah Orlando Anderson Killed Tupac. It's like well who told you that like oh everybody knows yeah Because he was going actually after he got back from Las Vegas. He was going like yeah, I killed Tupac That was that was me and I was like and the guys that were with him was like yeah, it was him Interesting so basically he's like every bad criminal who just gets hammered at the bar and at some point around midnight Admitted killing Tupac in a braggadocious way. It's like I will admit it here on the show. I actually think it's time good Good. Um, I am dear David. I

Am the ghost that haunted that Twitter user in order to for him to write the hit Twitter series That's now turning into a film dear David I don't even know I don't know the interesting to look into and it is me that who did it There is a new movie called who was phone which I'm pretty sure No, we didn't create that that's a 4chan thing my friends. All right Well, that's the thing that poochie poochie was killed in 2003 Orlando was killed in 98 So there's no one who arrest here right as far as the actual murders go But cating still had the guys who ordered the hits he still had put puffy and he still had shook right and on the

Tupac side cating planned to flip zip just like he'd flip Keefe and eventually he'd get puffy Okay, like kating's just like go up one more level one more level one more level and eventually we're gonna get them Okay, and on the biggie side He was planning to wiretap phone conversations between Teresa and shook hoping for a confession or at least further evidence Because he was it by no means like I am not gonna put that woman in a room with chug night wearing a wire Okay, like we're not we're absolutely not gonna do that cuz first of all she's gonna be scared shitless and second of all if he finds out That she's involved in this she's fucking dead But shook is still in prison at this point still in prison

But she still has a big reach but everything is being recorded like all the phone conversations, right? Yes, there's code. Yeah, right Yeah, yeah, did you deliver the laundry to the president's house? Oh? But just as the triggers were about to be pulled on both operations it all fell apart in 2009 kating was abruptly and without warning Removed from the Biggie Smalls task force due to an internal affairs Investigation having to do with a completely different case involving a grocery store chain owner named George Torres Although it also known as El Diablo. Yeah, really and the George Toro

Like it's another one like this is another side story that you got to read murder out to find out because the George Torres case is it's absolutely Fascinating it's like a racketeering murder assault Extortion like there's so much going on going on in this case Groceries, I know that's what I do love it. I'll have a half pound of your potato salad Meanwhile, there's a shopper through the back fucking chain to a chair that's getting whipped with a fucking gun Do you have any do you have those red potatoes? Like the red ones a russets. Yes Well kating was one of the investigators on this okay, and in that case kating said that he actually he admits to wrong doing

he got in careless in drafting a document and In doing so he gave Torres's lawyers the opening They needed to overturn a huge conviction on a legal technicality. I see like they overturned a guilty play So he messed up big time. Yeah, he fucked up. Yeah, he really fucked up But it's yeah, he fucked up, but it wasn't malicious or anything like that And meantime the press had dragged kating's name through the mud It also shows if you it's important when you watch the staircase if you have millions upon millions of dollars What you can do is have your defense attorneys go through every single layer of paperwork that exists looking for tiny errors

Yeah, you can manipulate. Yeah, and so when you watch a staircase that guy's spending a million plus on his defense For his the the trial on his murder when you watch it. You're like, holy shit That's what money buys you as guys going and tracking down every single fucking lead in order to poke holes in the prosecutors case And kating like he had uh, yeah, he'd gotten his name dragged through the mud by the press who had portrayed him as An out-of-control LAPD officer and those of course exist. Of course, there's dirty cops in the LAPD Ever say that here of course, of course they exist of course they do but kating wasn't one of them But he was he just made a mistake. He just made a mistake. Yeah, and By that point kating had already long since disproved Paul's conspiracy theory

Implicating the LAPD because remember that's the only reason why this case was re-open in the first place was because Velletta Wallace Biggie Smalls's mom had filed a five hundred million dollar wrongful death suit against the LAPD and by this point Kating had already disproved that so as far as the LAPD was concerned Task force is already done when it was set out to do and pool He was a former LAPD officer, right? So that gave a lot of credence to the claim remember he out copped himself. Yeah, that's right That's right. Yeah, and predictably the LAPD clearly showed It was never really about solving the murder of Biggie Smalls all the LAPD cared about was sinking the five hundred million dollar lawsuit But the LAPD they didn't just shut the whole task force down instead

They replaced kating with what's called a unit killer They brought in this like by the book guy named Alan Hunter who destroyed kating's carefully laid traps by Hamfist and the whole thing into oblivion I have sent a letter to shug telling him what we've been talking about him because it's rude Talk about behind a man's back and also what I'm thinking is I know we have a lot of people in the field today But I think what we should do is a nice free reading period So if you have a magazine you wanted to read it may be want to present one of the articles that would be lovely So they basically did

Like what the head of the EPA Pruitt. Yeah, like they they pruited the situation. They just destroyed It's I think they did it in like season three or four of the wire Like it's it's something that police departments actually do is they want to kill an investigation For whatever reason whether it be a political or whatever They'll put someone in charge of it that they know will fail a big dookie boy It's like a big dookie boy who just shows up in his only job is to fuck it up And they just did that because they had the the 500 million dollar loss it well There's I'll get into why exactly why exactly they did it or what they're thinking on it

Well, I will say it was what my father always taught me about getting out of Responsibility in the house my father used to do things the thing is is that whenever your mother asked you to do something you do it bad Yeah, she just stops asking you to do things that doesn't lead to a lifelong Life full of frustration rage and anger. No, no way never seething underneath the just underneath the surface So the LAPD they got cating off of the case. They put Hunter in And they ordered Hunter to give everything they had on the Tupac case to the Las Vegas Police Department He was like, yeah, that's not your case So just give it to the Las Vegas PD and you focus on biggie Smalls and the Las Vegas PD

They didn't do jack shit with it. They did nothing. They're like, huh, that's interesting and then put it in a drawer Okay, and with Teresa Swan They scared her away by insisting that she wear a wiretap in the same room as Shugnait because cating had this like Just meticulous plan set up like what I said earlier like that was that was greatly over-simplifying it he had this very meticulous plan set up to trap Shugnait and then Alan Hunter was like Why are we going through all that? Let's just put a wire on her. I'll be fine Come on guys, let's get through it. You know, you guys understand that Golden Girls is on? You understand that Golden Girls is only on for three hours a day and you get a check out because they play him in sequence

And I don't want to miss any arcs I mean my goodness, so they just gave her like a huge poinsettia that had like a massive microphone attached to it It's just a microphone broach Exactly. Oh man Well the LAPD's reasoning for taking cating off the case was that if the case did indeed go to trial Then whatever high-priced lawyers that Puffy and Shug would end up hiring would just absolutely Eviscerate all of cating's investigative work not because of how he got it, but because of the whole Torah as fiasco They're not wrong. Yeah, they're there would have this they're they're not wrong

But they also never gave him a chance No, they didn't want to solve the crime because again This is the belief of the they viewed everybody as that these were guys taking care of the their problems themselves So they figured the gangsters were gonna shoot each other anyway, so why will we go and figure it out for for us? Yeah, if they really cared about the case I I get like them looking at and saying like well, you know anything that you know This guy comes up with is gonna be kind of like tainted at least in the eyes of the in the eyes of public opinion But they could have put someone on the case who could have actually solved it because that's what cating said

When they he when he was told that he was off the case he left and he said like please promise me one thing Please promise me you're gonna put someone on this case that can actually solve it Only there was a big human like talking dog And so the investigation fizzled and nobody did any time for the crimes Jugnait kind of sorda got what was common to him, but that was only because he actually committed another murder when he ran over a guy After trying to force his way into the set of straight out of Compton a few years ago Yeah, he definitely did it without I mean good lord. He murdered them by rear view cam Yeah, crazy, and that wasn't the only thing that he did like he uh, he once paid a guy like 500 bucks to punch dr.

Dre in the stomach like Honestly I would pay you 500 bucks right now to punch Henry in the stomach. You can do it If I get if he does it would you do it 500 bucks? I'll give you 500 bucks right now punch him in the stomach. Henry. Do you would you forgive me? Hmm for 300 bucks Henry. Will you forgive him for 300? If you let me whip you thrice with my bull whip You don't know how to use that. I'll get to know how to use it. There's YouTube videos. I have queued up How much money am I paying here?

All around. Yeah, 500 him $300 to me to forgive him. Yes I can do that Now as far as the wrong folk death case went it was dismissed in 2010 and the lawyer the LAPD against the LAPD Yeah, and the lawyer for biggie's estate though like when they made the press release. They were very hopeful They said the case had been quote-unquote Reinvigorated and it was reinvigorated until cating was took off the case following that when the press asked police if They were close to catching biggie's assailant. They could only respond with two flat words Probably not

Yeah Yeah, that's that's the that's the end of the story is probably not because the fact is I think at this point We can say definitely not everyone involved in the case got away with it always will get away with it And you know, but yeah, I guess you know puffy is just gonna keep on co-hosting You know, what is it now? Is it right? Justin Kelly Lee? Ryan and Ryan and Kelly. I don't know They stop the investigation and the end doesn't even matter because two pockets currently alive Yes, this is actually what I want to hear. I want to believe this and he's living in Cuba, okay?

I'm having those little us. Oh, and there's some cool There's a fun thread that I found that is a bunch of interesting facts. One is a picture All right, the date tupac was quote-unquote killed on September 7th 1996 the date in the photo is a day after The shooting September 8th 1996 how's that possible also? They're supposed to be driving and there's no keys in the ignition. Oh Oh, I would say that uh one wrong One they're probably maybe waiting for the keys from the valet And two maybe the date was set wrong on the camera that took the photo the keys would be in the car with the valet because it

Valley would need to use the keys in order to get there, but possibly it's after they've given the keys to the valet Yeah, they would already given the keys to the valet and we're about to get out of the car completely wrong number two Yeah, that coordinates report has two bucks weight listed as two hundred and fifteen pounds. That's a lot of weight circle Yeah, big fat boy big fat boy, huh? I love it. A lot of muscle. Well, you know, but his license says he's a hundred sixty-eight pounds Yeah, so the corners report that he's forty seven pounds heavier than actually is because probably because he started lifting weights You don't know what you're saying You have no clue you're speaking out of your ass I mean, I know like you know in that like six years in between licenses like I know I stay the exact same way

Like the entire time and I'm sure both of you do as you should have in order to be in accordance with the law Here's a pic here's a pic of two pox autopsy photo Oh, man That's the wounds in this picture consistent with makeup used in one of two pox music videos Which you hear with a slick throat this mean could be that two pox autopsy photo was fake. All right. All right The date is wrong Could also be that you know the wounds are just similar to the sorts of wounds that someone has it like during an autopsy You have to find out like exactly what counterpoint. Okay, 2012 interview with sugar chug night

All right He stated that he paid a man who cremated to pop three million dollars personally and then he goes on to say that after his cremation He never heard from that guy again, right? There's no one actually saw two pox debt. All right, and the only people who have seen him since I've fallen off the map All right, I really do like actually you guys recently said in several interviews when people said you think the two pox is alive He went ha ha two pox capable of anything and if you don't trust sugar night. Yeah, can you trust anyone? I got an email two days ago from someone who's like aunt worked at the hospital and yeah It's odd. It's odd. It's odd two pox dead body, but there's

But he's worded against mine. All right, they also asked another they also asked a rap man named I believe Trench Trench Trench. Yeah, he asked him is two pox still alive and he said ha ha last time I saw him. He was in Cuba, huh? Definitive that's a tweet 2001 interview with two pox for her bodyguard Frank Alexander He stated throughout the interview that two pox life was planned and then his death was preplanned by God 12 years later Frank was killed by a gunshot wound to the head. Why he spoke of two pox plan death That's not that actually proves that he's dead. Yeah, and I think Frank Frank Alexander lived a dangerous life Oh, you know, she's got seven fucking albums came out and also let's cut to a mystical angle here

Okay, his first post humus angle was that was an album called Don Illuminati seven-day theory That was a recorded like long before listen to me you piece of shit point counterpoint. Okay number seven Oh, it's very important in two pox career. Okay. All right. So number one his career lasted seven years from 1999 1989 to 1996 okay seven gotcha He was shot on September 7th, 1996 died September 13th, 1996 at 403 p.m. 4 plus 0 plus 3 equals To the day uh-huh of his death all eyes on me was released Seven albums have been released seven seven's very important of the Bible

And all right who came back to life after being supposedly dead who in the Bible who did that Lazarus One that was the first one. Yeah Jesus yeah, and the dark and the donk Illuminati the cover is two pox being crucified But and they also point that is like another kind of sign that he's alive But I think it also has more to do with two pox burgeoning ego and persecution complex Especially when you actually listen to the album because it is nothing, but 60 minutes of pure anger I heard I mean even like and he like the whole album is just him calling out people. He calls out Haitian Jack

Like it's just it's a like it's a very angry album Like I remember being very like after listening like when it came out I remember listening being like yeah, I salute what's going on with you, buddy No, just like being pretty like I think it was yeah, it was the right Ben Westhoff in Original gangsters where he said like when the album came out like it was people were looking for healing When it came out, but instead they just got pure anger right nobody really knew what to do and as far as why he has so much Postumous material he was trying to desperately get out from under Shugknight's wing And he had a he had a long album deal with him

So he's he was just recording as much music as humanly possible and they were already prepping the move He was prepping the move to another label his own label So a part of it was having shit to come with him and then get it all it all sorted out because he was trying to make Sure that he would be able to dissociate himself from Shug as quietly and as peacefully as possible So he was in his what's that Van Morrison album after weeks Oh, no, the one or the one that's horrible. He's like fuck shit pussy pussy pussy fuck shit. That's like a whole song And then he talks about something like having the gouter, but he wanted to get out of the record label So he's like here's an album. Yeah, it's like anyway, so he's kind of going through that phase

Yeah, and that happens a lot and also like these hip-hop guys were extreme Extraordinarily prolific like they recorded so much because you know remember what biggie was waking up the next morning and doing When the night you know the night he got killed He was gonna wake up in the morning and go into the recording studio and he had his new album wasn't even out yet And he was still recording stuff like still going in now You know what I think is what I love about two pox work ethic with there It's like a little speech where talks about how like people used to gather around him and he used they say used to teach everybody Yeah, and one of his things with I think that's very important to comedy where he was just like fuck working on it real hard

He's put it out like essentially like you need to generate stuff like kind of what fucking ira glass said Which is you got to get the bullshit out like you have to get all of it out first and you can get to the stuff later Right, right. Yeah. All right. Well. Is that basically it? I mean that that's that's about the long and short of it Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Well great job guys awesome research. I really had no idea about the the Intricacies of the of the murders. I mean so but the both of the people who murdered them are dead. Yeah And also I gotta say thanks to Ben Westoff for getting a hold of us Yeah, man, you guys took the directive and went and bought his book and he got a huge spike in sales Yeah, go I think there's there's still copies out there. So yeah, go to Amazon, you know buy this guy's book buy murder rap

By Greg Cating like that buy these and also and that goes for every author that we mention on last podcast on the left Like please cuz like these guys they're the real heroes like these are the guys These are the guys that like we we're a bunch of nerds like we read a lot Yeah, but these are the guys that actually like go out and spend they spend years on these books I think but West Hop been West Hop spent five years riding original gangsters So like this these guys like they deserve your support and they they deserve your money So please please support them. Awesome. Well, and I'm so excited for our next episode. Yeah We have a pipeline so thick

So juicy, I'm so excited because this was this next topic is a thing that I wanted to broach for quite a long time Yeah, we're gonna fill you up with it. Yeah, all right. Okay. Well, thank you And then after that we're turning the blood spigot back Okay, thank you all so much for giving to our patreon we'll see you in Phoenix We'll see you in Boston and we will see you in Philadelphia next weekend a totally reasonable smart thought-out tour Three different intense breaks and temperature like different time zones We cannot wait to see you all so we'll see you all next week

Next weekend can't wait. Thanks you all so much for giving to our patreon without you. None of this is possible Uh, let's see anything else social media listen to all of the other shows and check out all the other shows We've got a fun side stories this week spoiler alert. We're talking about hereditary Check out top at page seven wisdom the bruiser And check out movie sign with the Mads feature in a couple guys from mr. Signs theater 3000 follow us on the behavior Modifying apps that are used to slowly bend us towards the apocalypse at Marcus Parks at Henry loves you Follow us on the sunshiny highlight reel of your life that it everyone lives a fancy life at Dr. Fantasty at Marcus Parks at Ben Kissel the number one yep and follow last podcasts on all of it at LP on the left

All right everyone so take care of yourselves. That's all we can do and don't forget to also hail yourselves hail Satan Magus dilations everyone hail me What's our other thing? Don't we see one other thing? You we say you said it you said it. Oh, I said yeah I'd you say yeah, no, that's the other show. That's the other show. I won't do that here I can't do that here. It's illegal. I'm just know you can hail me. It doesn't cost you anything. Yeah, no