Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 327: Richard Kuklinski Part II - Tales of the Iceman

Episode Date: August 11, 2018

Join us for the second in our three part series as we cover Richard's introduction into the mafia world as well as his menagerie of murder methods, from sharks to grenades to rats. There’s no reason not to join! Get yours at http://dollarshaveclub.com/last. Robinhood is giving listeners a free stock. Sign up at http://lastpod.robinhood.com. Plaint Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started Okay, yeah, okay, it's my friend my friend. Yes Come come sit down have some garbage cool. Thank you. Hmm. You like it. Yes, it suits you Does it suit you well? It's one of my favorites. I love it It's a job. I'd like you to do for me Marcus. So sweet Marcus. Oh Good boy. Good leading boy. Thank you. You're gonna show me your belly a little bit. Oh, I don't think that's good No, no, just do it. They just show me a belly. Okay, here. Well, you don't have to actually do it

Look at a little happy trail. You got a couple of rabbits in there. Okay. Okay. Tell me Marcus Yeah, what if I would to give you all the inbrew you could drink? Oh my all the vape juice It's pronounced iron brew. You could suckle upon Would that possibly be an offer You can't refuse Yes Yeah, have sex with my 300 pound grandmother

All right, my God, I'm the last contest on the left everyone. I am Ben Kissel with the recently abused Marcus Parks Hello, we got Henry Zabrowski. Never my last kids and women are off limits. Oh, I have morals. I'm in the muff That's great. You know an offer. I can't refuse unlimited breadsticks Salad the Olive Garden. That's the only offer. I can't refuse How many breadsticks? What's up? Can they serve you before they have to cut you off? Do you know before we get to Richard Kiklinski part two? I will tell a little story about Fazzoli's which is a small pizza chain I think it's mostly in the Midwest horrible pizza in Texas to amazing breadsticks

They're just they are just caked in butter and I got cut off after 15 So they really they had to escort me out because you have to buy pizza within a 15 minute time period And then it's so then after that they did put a time limit on it. That's the Ben Kissel rule 15 breadsticks is a kissles doesn't All right, let's get into Richard Kiklinski part two So when we last left Richard Kiklinski, he was just about to meet his long-suffering wife Barbara Now we've used the term long suffering in the past to describe the significant others of killers But Barbara may have gotten the rawest deal of all See most of the time outside of killer couples the significant others of serial killers tend to be completely

Shielded from the activities of their husbands and with good reason being a serial killer requires intense compartmentalization And if the secret spills out into their actual life in any way, they're fucked, right? Also, it's a part of their sexual game Yes, which we kind of discover which we will talk about quite a bit in the in the book that we're writing Which is a lot of that the idea of there is a heightened game between keeping the two things separate But now in Kiklinski's case, right? It's not a sexual thing though. No, this is just it's What it's got to be separated because it's business So the mafia the business equals the sex in mafia murders, yes, I get it

Well Barbara Kiklinski as far as the significant others went was an unfortunate exception She wasn't involved in the killing per se, but she bore the brunt of Richard's violent tendencies And the two met one day at the soda machine at the trucking company where they both worked Oh, they both hit this diet coke button at the same time Honestly, it's a little bit of a meat cute It's Richard Richie was trying to go legit He had his side piece Linda who was not his side piece. It was his wife with his two kids. He was trying to bring money back home He was trying not to do contract killing anymore. He's sitting at the we he goes to start working at

It's a truck in yard. Yeah. Yeah. So his only job was to lift boxes, right? Yeah, he had a the other guy every day he'd go and it's just be like Yeah, Richie, what are you doing? Are you talking to the boxes again? Don't tell me I can't talk to boxes Like that box is smiling at me and be like that's the Amazon box. It's a logo. It's not smiling at you I promise you but he went out there and he saw Barbara at the time Barbara had hair piled two feet high on top of her head Which was the custom at the time like Mark Simpson. Yes, and they saw each other and he basically just said hello And she was like oh a man like a little bit a little bit

Yeah, they pretty much just exchanged pleasantries like hey, how you doing? Oh, you worked out at the dogs great I work over in the receptionist pool. I feel like Kuklinski has breath. It's like really hot But at the same time when you're done speaking to him your hair is still frozen And I don't know why that like it's a strange irony. I guess your contradiction He's reverse Superman My lungs are freezing Well, I mean the relationship might have ended at just the pleasantries if not for the meddling of their boss Oh, see he'd taken a shine to Barbara because she kind of looked like his daughter and he knew all about

Richard's checkered past as a criminal So the boss called Kuklinski into his office and told him you stay away from Barbara Can we just get into it? Can we just get into the 10 second time machine really quick? The boss wanted to bang his daughter so he found a woman. No, he felt he felt he felt a he felt warm feelings or protective protective protective fatherly feeling. That was a little big. That was a little bag right there This is back in the day when daughters were separated into a category They were meant to be coddled and hired and that you had your gavones So whatever was the mistress on the side were the ones that could blow you because they don't have to kiss your children with

The thing was is that Richard hadn't even thought about pursuing Barbara romantically before this conversation But now he had some asshole tell him he couldn't do something that he felt he had every right to do should he choose to do it So he did this out of spite He literally went to go and and he went and flirted with her because the boss told him not to Which I sort of get in a twisted sister kind of way Why didn't anyone just be like I bet you you couldn't play Russian roulette? I bet you you would not do it. I'll do it. I'll do it right now I bet you couldn't I bet you couldn't become the first Polish power forward of the NBA

That's it Who knows so Richard told his boss to shove the job up his ass Richard walked out and he said that he had planned to return later that night to kill the guy But when he returned He ran into Barbara instead again at the soda machines Okay, she loves soda and Barbara was a very good petite well put together young Italian woman that was sitting there and she was very like I'm not gonna say born mobster's wife

But like maybe a little man where she kind of had to look she kind of looked like Lorraine Brocko Okay, so he basically had his eyes like that Instagram filters the super zoom with the dramatic music But instead of like, you know really some a nice sound is just a bunch of gunshots And the sounds of people being stabbed. It's cute So Richard told Barbara about him losing his job on account of talking to her and because she felt sorry for him They went out on a coffee date instead of Richard murdering his boss at his former placement employment She later remarked that going out on that date was the worst mistake she ever made. Yeah Yeah coffee went well enough for a follow-up and that Saturday the two of them went to see Godzilla and a couple of Casper cartoons

Okay cartoons. I like cartoons too because sometimes they give me funny ideas the things to do like how you can make a little boy a funny little gox Just your hands Yeah, that's funny. You're funny It must have been weird while he was taking notes the entire time on their date while watching Casper God He loved cartoons. He said he took a lot of ideas from Popeye, too. Okay. All right. He does realize he's bluto, right? He is the enemy. You don't even want to get him around a can of spinach. No

He'll kill your fucking family if he has a little bit too much iron in his system And from that moment on after the Godzilla Casper double feature Richard was smitten Problem was though Richard was still married even though he no longer had anything to do with his first wife or his two kids Due to an earlier incident which may or may not have happened Can we say though Godzilla and Casper's a double feature is like double feature? It saw followed by won't you be my neighbor? Like a bit of like an extreme like horror and then a friendly ghost Godzilla was fun Yeah, it was men wrestling each other in well, that's the costume. Yeah, that's true

Well some months before Richard had caught his first wife in a motel room with a friend to his in Retaliation Richard said he broke as many of his friends bones as he could and then right there in the room Cut his first wife's nipples off. Oh We don't know if this is true or not Which is what we're gonna say again and again about Richard Kuklinski about what's true and what's not true But there's something about like why make this bullshit up besides just trying to be as mean as humanly possible Which you also was right, it's like a kind of a combo of even just saying that you did this Kind of makes you fucked up. Yeah, and whatever happens is that he did this and then met Barbara

And then he started dog and Barbara so they went on on that date and then she Essentially just like while they're hanging out. She was like, oh, I like Casper, which is strange Honestly to be to be a Casper fan. I don't know what that means. I love Casper myself. I don't think the movies have been very good You're specifically a fan of Casper I mean I will watch a Casper cartoon if it's on I see Casper the friendly ghost and it puts a smile on my face So I you and Carolina live a an extended cosplay version of the movie Paris, Texas I'm a fun world fun world fun world But so what happened is the next day after they broke up

So again, she kind of offhandly said I like Casper He just shows up at her house right because he dropped her off and he showed up with a dozen roses and a bunch of Casper dolls Right these little Casper dolls. She's like thanks Richard But number one didn't really invite you and the mother of course because Barbara's one level of Italian snark And her mother is grade a Italian right who's just like I don't like this Richard boy I don't like him bring it around and first of all, he's Polish You're gonna see a lot of anti-polish sentiment in these entire Anti-polish as much as it is pro-Italian

He could have been he could have been from Hugo, Slavia, and they still would have said like he's not Italian He's not Italian. This is really a big story for you as you feel like an oppressed person Do you feel as you've been going through this like you kind of relate to Kuklinski in some ways? We should be the protected wheat. We should be a protected class of people because of the skirts for pants and the many braided hats we wear those need to be kept in a museum So people can see our magic for years to come Okay, but but the thing is he became very frightening immediately. Yeah, and you know whether the nipple incident had actually happened or not There was no contact between Richard's first family and Richard

Since him and Barbara had started dating. Okay, the thing was that Richard, you know if the nipple incident happened He wasn't upset because he loved his wife He was upset because he owned her because that was his woman He said he had no feelings towards this woman or their kids What so ever? Okay? In fact, he thought of this woman like he thought of every other woman Including his mother that they were all just whores who did nothing but sleep around with every Tom Dick and Harry at the pool hall What did he what was the nickname that he gave for his mother? Oh cancer cancer?

Well part of it was apparently he says as a kid after his parents separated He came home and found his mom Legs up in the air with the neighbor who was married and that was burned into his eyes Which just shows the emotional strength of Richard Kuklinski because I think if I saw my mother in that position I would never speak again I would be like a little boy from Scrooge where they always be like he used to talk a lot But now he talks even just a little and it's just me just sitting alone with a bit with a page boy hats on and an insane Asylum yeah, it's never good when you walk in on your mother and it looks like the cover of don't tell mama the babysitter's dad

Yeah, I think that's the name of the movie Well Barbara she was something else all together in Richard's eyes She'd lived a nice sheltered life and didn't know a goddamn thing about the world of pool halls and crime and murder That Richard had come from interesting. It's kind of like a reverse situation of dead alive But in their world, I mean honestly Kuklinski spent so many time with scoosers and floozy What's a scoos a scoos is a woman whose butt has been flattened by a stool Where did you hear scoos? I don't know Because the ice man confessions has so many words for you know all of the type of with bar women

Which is also what my father said my father used to say I used to spend my time with bar woman until I met your mother The thing is that he kept going to the bar like he met my mom that was his Barbara But then he kept going to the bar and that was a whole idea of living this quote-unquote Innocent life you've got this woman who doesn't know anything about what it means to play billiards But the thing is Kuklinski, you liked billiards Shouldn't you find a woman that also played billiards so you could do something together besides just fucking kill people and throw money at her and smack her Around yeah, well, I guess you wanted to be alone sometimes. Maybe the bar was his solitude. I suppose so who knows Well, the thing is like even if you don't believe that Richard killed dozens of homeless men up and down Manhattan

And there are quite a few people out there who don't Richard was still a ruthless criminal capable of burning a stranger alive Because he called him a bad name, right? Yes Barbara would say that she never knew about Richard's most nefarious criminal goings on until they were both dragged out of their car by ATF agents one gray December morn. Oh She did admit to having some inkling at the beginning though as her aunt Sadie had gotten a bad feeling about this non-Italian named Richard Yeah, non-Italian Yeah, and aunt Sadie had hired a private eye to look into his background She's with Barbara who is traditionally Italian, which means what?

suspicious filled with witchery and All sorts of like they have inner workings inner minds because I know because my mother's half Italian So they have this so she went us went out out of her way to get a private detective to look into Richie's life and All the private detective was like this guy's a fucking maniac Yeah, I do believe that he killed all those homeless people That's like one of the stories that I do full-on believe that he was a fucking he's actually like I'm now flipped to the other side Where he is mostly a serial killer. Yeah, that's what it seems like to me But I wouldn't call him Richie though. It sounds like he has a bottle cap hat on

He's ready to go down for the hamburger competition over at the local hamburger stand And so Barbara knew about most of Richard's crimes because the private eye came back told aunt Sadie and aunt Sadie told Barbara knew about the robberies and even knew about the rumors of murder and I just asked though the private eye like at any point was he like maybe I should call the police or step in or he's he just like I just watch I mean don't like if you're watching the robbery. Don't you alert someone? No, no, no, it wasn't during the ride. This is after the robberies because the private eye had just gone around like he talked to some people Oh, he just talked to folks. Yeah. Yeah, and as far as the robberies went Barbara convinced herself that all that was in Richard's past Oh, and of course. Yeah, definitely one thing is certain people change

Always they never just stay the same they never repeat the same crimes again and again It doesn't take much, you know months and years of effort to make a a new mentality for you, right? Yeah And concerning the murders she said they probably deserved it pretty soon Barbara would come to find out the Richard Kuklinski was a very very dangerous man to anyone in his proximity Whether he loved him or not Yeah, yeah, what was the first warning sign? Well, we're about to get into that Yeah, so Barbara she'd come to find out that there were two men the bad Richard who would blacken her eyes on a regular basis and The good Richard who would request that restaurants play the Kinney Rogers song lady upon Barbara's entrance into a building

Lady You're my knight and forced to dinner with me always Cuz I have a knife in my pocket Oh Forever more Must be the extended version of that song I don't recall those lyrics But this is also my father's way of this back in the day. Yeah, you wanted to you if you wanted to What's the term court a woman that was not a bar woman? What you had to do is flowers all the time

Constant Casper gifts you show up at her work where she doesn't know that you know that where her work is You show up at all these different places where essentially you haunt her and eventually she just becomes your wife Because you won't let her not be your wife stalking you stalk and tell you Mary. Yeah, okay, exactly And the worst thing was Richard made it apparent from the beginning that there was no way out Because he had been stalking her and he had been showing up all the time and they were going out constantly So she told him like hey, this is getting a little intense like I'd I still want to see other people And so in response to that they were in his car. He pulled out a knife Lightly stabbed her in the back with it and told her she was his no matter what and if she ever tried to leave him

Or go to the cops he killed not only her but her entire family and anyone who ever meant anything to her building and building and building and building and building and then you pop the Polish way Every single time but no, it was very it's very scary because they all knew eventually that he was a fucking He was a maniac. Mm-hmm He they the the family would just do a lot of stuff because she would invite him out The big thing was that she and he invited him to Christmas Eve dinner Which in Italian families is a really big deal. They have the seven fishes You do all the gifts at midnight and Richard came and he to the dinner and he's like he didn't understand laughter and love

You don't understand you like like he didn't understand like families enjoying each other So he's watching all these people eat stuff and like huge stuff like yeah I'd murder somebody to get some of this fish again, and they're all like laughing about it like oh, you're funny Richie You know like the very uneasy because um, he was carrying three guns, right? Yeah, so he's not a humorist No, actually they said he was very funny He was they said he was like a lot of that's part of the reason why Barbara's family liked him because he was a very funny guy And a lot of people that Works with him like they were like yeah, he's he's a funny dude

And he said that like he was the concept of a nice family dinner like a nice Christmas Was so foreign to him and seemingly so impossible sure that he had to leave dinner And he went out on the back porch and sobbed uncontrollably because Just watch that you haven't seen the the end of the first Iceman documentary Oh, I'm not gonna make it through this one. I don't So He had one big tear came out and he's like well, that's the most moisture of the head that didn't come out of my dick It seems like he cries on the inside

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he does well, you know what you remember when he made his joke on the documentary Yeah, one joke where he was like Yeah, it was with the Bob run Yeah, he told the stories is gonna put the knife in the back to make sure that she knows in there She's like then the psychiatrist like yeah, that does sound pretty extreme. He's like, yeah, but she got the point Hung and set hung for a second. I love it. And then he's like you see see how it's funny. See I threw a joke in there right for you, and they're all like You know, there was one cop in the back room looking through the the glass mirror just spit out his coffee and just died laughing

I just loved it. Well, eventually Barbara got pregnant But she couldn't stand the thought of marrying him naturally So she called his bluff and took off to her dad's place in Miami Beach And that call was correct because all Richard did was haunt Barbara's mom's house ask him where she went and Barbara had told her mom do not under any Circumstances tell him where I am right now Richard He'd been up front about still being married to both Barbara and the family

But he said that he'd never gone through with a divorce because he didn't have the money So Barbara's mother worried about quote what people would think Should her daughter be a single mother? This woman gave Richard the money for the divorce as well as her daughter's location Oh, yeah, she knew that this guy was beating his daughter She knew how awful of a person he was but all because the neighbors might think something poorly She turned her daughter over to this monster 1950s. Yeah, we are yes. I'm gonna say we are time I'm gonna throw that out there. This may have been the 60s by this point

Oh, yeah, I mean early early 60s So she rather her daughter with a serial killer abuser than being with a person who is not divorced from his wife Yeah, okay. Well. Yeah, she can't be a single mother. That would be what a travesty on the family. That would be what a what a Disgusting disgusting thing. Well, you know what? You know, what's really nice about it kids eat free at most at most Olive Gardens and also they don't know if you take from the kids plate So technically you could eat free too. It's like I'm a kid at all. Oh, look at me. I'm pissing in my pants You are hammered sir. Yep Well Barbara said that the day Richard showed up in Miami a

Storm followed. Oh Having no real choice at that point Barbara convinced herself that the time that they'd spent apart had changed Richard and so she led him back into her life No, and he did change for a short period. No crime. No murder. No gambling. No violence whatsoever None of the things you're supposed to do ever other than gambling. You're allowed to game. Oh It's building and building Lord so finally after a few months Richard convinced Barbara to marry him at a justice of the peace But soon after the abuse started back up and she lost the baby. Oh, no and another and

And another they lost three babies. They lost three babies because of Richard's abuse He once beat her so hard the baby's leg came out. Oh Like I gave I had a partial birth and still it was like well time to try again Oh my god because she said he was an insatiable lover and of course never used condoms So he was just like you would go right back at it they would immediately have another kid be get pregnant again and Honestly, this is a part of where the Iceman movie was like so disgusting. Yeah, and you really look at the the compartmentalized it like The way they looked at his relationship with Barbara and like just because he didn't fucking murder her

Yeah, you're saying that they were fine Well, the fourth child would finally make it to term and in all they'd have three kids Merrick Chris and Dwayne two girls and a boy. Okay, and pretty much the only kind of sort of good thing You can say about Richard Kuklensky was that he never laid a hand on his kids He beat their mother in front of them and was so vicious to her that all the kids had go bags packed Should he ever kill her jeez, but he never beat them. Oh, see he's a good dad I mean honestly that's where Iceman gets it from see they just took that and made that The only part of his family life that they showed in the movie except for that time. He got angry once

Yeah, that's a massive service. Yeah, but yeah, he would destroy furniture with his bare hands in front of them He was a tremendous. He was an absolutely terrifying force in the house except to Merrick Yeah, really because Merrick was his favorite and Merrick had a lot of problems she had kidney problems from just literally since the day she was born and Iceman used to go and sit with her and stroke her hair every day when she was in the hospital And he was that was the Merrick was the only child that he told the story of his abusive childhood too

And he's like this is why I'm like this This is why I do the things that daddy does and she's like I ain't love you daddy and he's like never say it Yeah, she said that she loved him till the day That he died that she was yeah, she was loyal to him the entire time every all the other kids were like I hate this man this man is awful, but she was daddy's girl So she forgave everything that he did and he'd do other terror like what he would do to keep himself from beating his kids He would punch himself in the face until he passed out Yeah, then he'd wake up and just walk out of the house

And then come back later. Well, look at that. Isn't that get get you got to get one of those big fake dummies Billy blanks tapes come on buddy. I'm getting some OJ vibes here, too OJ tapes where Nicole Brown was on the phone with the cops and like oh ask him about his time with the bills No, he's gonna kill me. Tell me about the touchdowns. Yes. I mean that was you should be so lucky That's a great football player a big head So after Merrick Kuklinski was born Barbara and Richard moved back to New Jersey The year was 1962 and Barbara's uncle Tony got Richard a straight job at the 20th century deluxe film lab on the west side of Manhattan

Hey, all right and after working there for a little while Richard learned how to copy prints on the sly and Eventually he had a nice little criminal enterprise pirating Disney cartoons and selling them on the black market What the hell is going with all these Disney cartoons? I don't really understand and I don't really understand the idea of there being a black market for Disney cartoons Of course there is no because that's the things that all of these theaters have to pay these high prices in order to get the Distribution rights to the films and they have to pay it to the distributor that to pay it to the studio So if they can get that film for five six hundred bucks less from someone like Richard Kuklinski Then they're gonna take it and so he made a great living doing that

We used to get all those bootlegs from that old really shady guy who kept on getting shut down by the NYPD when we were super broke And you hear the people eating and talking in the theaters So what did they over here? Well, they were watching nothing Kuklinski choking a guy out This was a full cut if there was no difference between the the bootleg print and the real print Okay, so he was just he would stay up all night long making extra copies so they could sell them on the black market This is what made him crazy. It's like the movie evil Ed the guy who edited all those films But you learned a you learn he learned it from his bosses They were all stealing because everybody was immediately crooked

And so he'd go and he'd print snow white and then I guess go down by the fucking Washington Bridge and there'd be a guy like What you got man? What you got? What you got going? I got me some white And I got me some I could see right here some Rella. You need some Rella Aladdin and things like that. Well, it seems kind of innocent in a strange way, but it's not yeah No, no, no, absolutely not because it immediately shifted to fucking pornography That also sounded very which is different back in the day Interested from there the heist started anew from trucks full of jeans to Cassio watches whole trucks full of Cassio watches Richard was heistened and stealing and selling and

One of these heists was actually Richard's reintroduction into the world of murder. Oh Richard there's a direct correlation by the way when a kid starts when he's when a kid starts Jealous hair in seventh grade. You also get the Cassio. Oh, yeah, let the ladies know you know how to tell time You joke but I hair slick back. I had my Cassio watch Yeah, I had my Cosby shirt on I was covered in jupe and I was ready to go I love jupe used to just doused it on and they did make fun of me But I was wearing my Alonzo morning full Charlotte Hornets uniform, so they know I was serious You could have gotten drafted back at that point

Well Richard and a crew had stolen a truck full of Cassio's and they delivered them to the buyer because that's what they would do Is that they would steal shit a buyer would agree upon a price and then the buyer would flip them Okay, but upon delivery the buyer decided he didn't want to pay the price that he and Richard had agreed upon So Richard lost patience trying to dicker with the guy He pulled out a gun and shot him and his three associates in the head. Just bam, bam, bam, bam And just cut to him swimming in a bunch of Cassio watches like Scrooge McDuck being like they're mine. They're all mine I never want to dicker with anybody But Richard I mean I feel like this is kind of a more of a reveal into the real Richard Kuklinski

I don't know if he was like like Special forces level able to hide anybody 80 of like, you know like an incredible cat like murderer like I don't think he's like that I think he's like this I think these are the stories when he says we're like the guy decides to one-up him and Decides to be because he's like, I don't really want to pay this price thinking he's a big deal

Richard's first inclination. Let's not figure a way out of this. Let's not talk with a negotiate I'm just gonna shoot you in the fucking head and every single time cuz he didn't he Richie always said But mostly I think it's other people we're really afraid of working with Richie because yeah, he would just kill everybody Time I think that's the main reason they were terrified of him And if he's anything like you Henry fastest guy within 10 feet, you got to be very careful for the sneaky Polish You better be careful for a sneaky fucking Polish because you never see us coming because I'm low knee height for you I know because if I get on all fours, you won't even see me all of a sudden. I'm in your pockets next thing I'm I'm I'm glicking your ankles. You think it's popping, but it's me

Well the load of Casio's was eventually sold to Phil Salamane who would prove to be one of the most important people in Richard's life both in terms of the evolution of his criminal career and The end of it Richard famously said that Phil was the only friend he had that he didn't kill But speaking completely objectively here Phil would eventually be the friend He should have trusted the least really and isn't that how it goes. I guess Yes, so Phil's business at the time was pornography Specifically the really nasty stuff. Oh, he dealt in everything from intense blood play to golden showers Which golden showers by this by the standards of today golden showers are pretty tank

We do a bit during our live show about what's happened to porn hub and what's going on with the American family Yeah, I think that's true, but now but now golden shower videos have lighting. They have catering like you can go I mean plenty of water obviously Yeah, yeah, but a bit golden showers is normal porn now. Yeah, yeah But this was this was during when you had to watch everything in a in a theater Right, it's right away a bunch of people and stuff like that. Yeah Yeah, you had to go to a theater for all this stuff Or you had to go to like someone's garage for a stag party. Ah, Gacy. Yeah, but Phil's specialty

Was bestiality of the literal dog and pony show variety. Oh Apparently featuring a young Linda Lovelace blowin a horse. No really Shetland pony. No way Did she really do that? I would have to up. I mean I can Linda Lovelace Bestiality I don't like what Google is gonna give us. Are you talking about the movie dog fucker made in 1971? You know, I could be talking about anything. I It's called dog a Rama and that's with Linda Lovelace. She's pleasure by a German Shepherd. Yeah, rated R for rough All right, I didn't need to know that

Everyone was so disgusted in the 60s and they just pretended like it was all peace and love Yeah, well, you know what piece of love can go a little bit too far when a Rottweiler's involved Someone is protesting a bit too much. Oh Leave puffing out of this Well Phil found that the dirtier his shit was the better it sold and since Richard still had his job making copies of movies for Distribution he switched from bootleg in Disney to the much more profitable business of bootleg and porno Oh, my no eventually Richard would make connections where he would be selling porno directly to the Gambino crime family And thus Richard was back in the mob

Rare to go for more murder for hire. I missed that scene in Godfather when the main dude was jerking off to dog Orama What the hell is that imagine going to an Italian restaurant like back room Where you sitting there? Everyone's watching little Linda lovelace blow a Shetland pony and it just one guy be like hey Joey launches You come yet? And he's like wait. Give me a second. Joey got a goal Yellow I say yellow when I come Disturbing stuff here. Oh, yeah

But that's not to say that Richard didn't murder in the meantime. Okay on one occasion Richard said he'd stashed a different load of Casio watches on some dude's farm for a nominal fee Let's not use the word load for a while. Can we please just refrain from that word for a second? Yeah, if you have a better word to describe a bundle a clutch I got a clutch. Can I say a clutch? Sure? Well when Richard returned for the clutch The truck was gone and so Richard said he took a couple of road flares and Tortured the guy who was in charge of the truck burning his feet down to the bone

Then he did the same to the other foot then he took off the guy's pants and burn the guy's balls He said he burnt his testicles until they were a useless lump of flesh and his buddies again They're just trying to boost some watches. These guys are not in the torture business This is supposed to be zip-zap-zop over and done with we're gonna do all this This guy's like, I don't think I'm gonna give me your truck and the other guys are like, okay So let's like just tell him, you know, we'll maybe rough him around a little bit and Richie's like, I got this And then when he started setting his balls on fire everyone's like Richie Richie what's going on? What are you doing there?

Richie stop it smells like a real barbecue joint in here, Richie. What's going on? And then just when Richard was about to go for the cock the guy finally admitted that the truck was hidden on his buddy's farm Down the road hold on a second. So this is the guy. He's as strong as John McCain That is unbelievable. It took his testicles both of his feet and burned before he admitted where a truck was Well, the guy down the road. He gave it up almost immediately after a quick pistol weapon But if you're wondering, okay, so you wonder like why did this guy lose two feet in his balls before giving up the clutch? I am wondering why this guy lost both of his feet and his balls before giving up the clutch Because once Richard found out that these two guys had stolen from him boom boom both dead

He knew he knew that the moment Richard found out that they had stolen from him He knew they were both dead. Okay, so that was he just he finally had as much as he could take So for them it was a bit it was life and death. Yeah, well, the dude was literally the entire time being like I don't know anything. I don't know anything and Richie talks about openly in the book where he's just like he's like Maybe he doesn't know anything Maybe I'm wrong, but let me just let me check one more time and then he'd go like now I'm gonna do you penis and the guy's just like oh, yeah, and he's like So he basically like pulled a Colombo he was about to leave and turns around

Yeah, one more thing Interesting well another time Richard said he accidentally killed a union guy who was busting his balls on behalf of the film printers Union Because Richard was putting in too much overtime at the lab. Just let it leave Richard alone I'm just gonna say it so Richard punched the guy the guy fell and hit his head on a park bench and died And so Richard went to a hardware store bought some rope Returned to the scene and hung the guy from a tree right there in the park to make it look like a suicide He even got a milk crate and set it up next to him to make it look like the guy had hopped off of it Wow, this I want to thank. Um, I want to thank Ian over at the improv works for helping me with my prop work

To really think about how to get yourself out of it. Follow the fear Yeah, this one here. This is a little suspect. I mean Richard said he was never suspected for the crime But it's likely the people knew that the union guy was gonna go see him and plus if the guy had hit his head hard enough To kill him right then there would naturally be a wound which the cops who pulled him down would have noticed So I hit him in the head. I hit him in the head. He fell down So what I did was I set up a little table put a tablecloth on it. No nice bottle key auntie. Oh Played him King prawns. Oh, he's got a nice Romulan sauce You could dip my line and I set him up in the chair put his face in the prawns heart attack

That makes all the sense in the world But on the other hand, you know the guy could have broken his neck in the fall That's a lot of people die that way where you know They fall on a weird spot on a bench or something like that and their neck breaks Right, or you know the cops could have been idiots and they might have just been like look at this guy I pulled him down. Okay, so my father was a cop I don't believe it. Yeah, and it could be that Richard was lying completely or that things didn't happen quite the way That Richard remembered it because after all you got to remember that Richard was in his late

60s when he told these stories in full to Philip Carlo This is 30 or 40 years after these events, right? He may have jazzed some stuff up quite a bit Obviously, we're gonna go into many different ways. He jazzed things up, but I think he did kill many people Yes, yes, but one thing we do know for sure is the crime that Richard's brother Joseph committed Now it seems like psychopathy was something that ran in the Kuklinski family Joseph was just as much of a criminal as Richard, but the difference was Joseph was terrible at it Huh because of this Richard was constantly bailing his brother out of troublesome situations and since people liked Richard and the work that they

That he did and that they were just plain terrified of them They always let Richard get him out of it But Richard could not and would not get his brother out of what he did to 12 year old Pamela dial One night Joseph lured the girl to the roof and raped her before choking her to death and Tossing her to the ground from four stories up Now Joseph had been seen with Pamela earlier that night But the witnesses didn't think anything about it at the time because both of them were neighborhood people and everyone interacted with everyone else But because Joseph had been seen with her police approached him and he confessed before the arrest was even made

He was sentenced to life in prison in his early 20s and coincidentally would one day share a cell block with his brother All right. Well, that is for the best. Yeah life imprisonment is definitely where he belongs You can see the difference between the fact that Joseph had a sexual nature to his crimes where it was like this thing was obviously he was a pedophile that also So he was trying to cover up his crimes and he had a weird impulse control and he was a closer to what we would call like a True like like a predator like a piece of shit where Richard Kuklinski all of his crime and the way he filtered it was through business So the way that he managed to make it his shit legit Joseph a monster even in his own mind because he would say later on they would see each other on the cell and

They would see each other on the block and he would be like he would maybe give him a nod But he's like my brother's disgusting. Well, I guess if you have to compare the two I suppose I could see how Richard could rationalize that he's better than his brother obviously obviously. Yeah, obviously Yeah, I mean if his brother hadn't got caught immediately It's very likely he would have become a serial killer And you know did I mean are there any accusations of crimes that were unsolved that maybe he might have committed? No, no, no, it was it was definitely a first-timer for him There was nothing else because they he can fit he confessed immediately when they approached him

Okay, but these two guys would not share a cell block for decades to come Richard still had a long career ahead of him and the whole thing had its foundations in the pornography business All right, but he said he kept killing people who bothered him or threw him out of bars or Pissed him off on the road and each time Richard said he was getting away with it and the more he got away with it The more he started to realize that he was really fucking good at murder and more specifically really fucking good at not getting caught But he realized he had a skill that should he'd be paid for it's like what happens in a performers career at some point Yeah, you realize like I should be paid to do this and he's more and more used thinking about me like I should be paid

The murder again, you know what? This is my umbrella. What was the name of that business book with all the umbrellas? Why the fuck are you asking us? It's up about umbrellas. I remember for what I worked at Borders LL bean It was something about get your colored umbrella like you better have a brown umbrella I don't know what that means. You have a bit of a pink umbrella So with your comparison his open Mike night for a struggling comedian until they got good was killing a bunch of homeless people on The Upper West Side Yes. Oh, yeah, no exactly. And so he found out he wasn't scared of it either like when you go on stage for the first time

You're like I can be up here. Oh, he was never scared never scared No, never scared But I think this statement as well as the fact that we know that he went decades without the cops even getting a whiff of them Even though we know he was murdering that whole time That makes me think that he probably did murder quite a few unsuspecting people as well as a few of those homeless men I mean he almost certainly exaggerated, but nobody is born the best at what they do. You're right It's about 10,000 hours Malcolm Gladwell. It's it's that being a fucking contract killer is no different I mean it helps to have natural talent, but

Even Michael Jordan had to constantly practice and work his ass off to become one of the best of all time and kill his father I don't know Well, he set him up. Yeah, he didn't quote-unquote But Alan Iverson was one of the best of all time he didn't practice well practice Practice well, how long did Alan Iverson last? Hey, I'm 13 14 years. What are you brought the Sixers to the finals? Did they win the finals? No, because One of them had a seven Pete the other one didn't well also it was two to three Pete's uh-huh seven Pete No, it was seven. It was it was back-to-back-to-back two years off to go into the conspiracy theory

Because he would maybe gamble it too much. He wants to hit some balls over the fence. Yeah, and then three again. Yep seven Pete He's no Bobby Bonilla, that's all I know Because it won't it comes down to his Bobby Bonilla gets paid to do nothing and what is success? And so Richard after realizing that he was really really good at getting away with murder Returned to the New Jersey mob bosses and told them that he was once again looking for quote special work All right And meanwhile Richard was stepping it up in the porn game instead of just making bootlegs

Richard started taking films on Consignment, and he even started financing his own movies all shot in abandoned warehouses over in Soho Really? Here we go. Let me take a look at some of these scrubs, okay? All right, so great. You're gonna be playing on what appears to be a giant talking sponge We're gonna have to paint his cock yellow too is that okay? And Stacy you're gonna be playing some kind of piece of coral Uh something about he's got square pants, but it's round. He's a guy around legs. Oh, he's gonna be wearing foam

We got it. Oh hold the cut his dick out of it. Yeah, okay Yeah, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good porno. There's one thing I know how to make it's good good Polish porno SpongeBob Square Squirtz. I don't like it. It was actually called. I think it was called SpongeBob Square Dick Oh, it was pretty good. Oh, there's actually a porno. Yes. Yeah diamond was in it. It was really great actually, okay? fun All right, so now he's directing porno, which has to be horrified. He wasn't doing it. No, he was producing Yeah, he was producing. He said he actually hated to be in the same room at us because he said it was filthy I'm so sick of Mafia guys over the last like couple days like reading about them. They're all like this

It's all just cuz like, you know drugs are gross even they're all doing cocaine Right, like murdering people throwing the river, but like drugs That's against the Mafia code Oh, and then the idea of people in porn like people in sex work being disgusting where it's just being like you guys are all You guys have more respect for the ponies getting blown here than the women doing the blowing Yeah, those are the workers But since Richard had taken those films on consignment and the return on producing movies was slow Richard found that he'd bit off a little more than he could chew money wise and he eventually

Ran a fowl of a mobster named Roy Dimao All right, Roy Dimao was it very similar to Joe Pesci's character from Goodfellas Yeah, Roy Dimao with a very dangerous person Short and fat real mean real fucking crazy and kind of a loose cannon The way he got into this business, which I think is very interesting and it's very it's a way that Mafia does it Basically the guy that owned the film distribution company owed money to Roy Dimao So Roy Dimao decided to just become one of the executives of the company's like well now your company's my company So the thing is that Richie hated when people owed him money and he would get real mad about it

And he when someone told him they couldn't get it he'd go and fucking kill him But he then he pulled the same game to Roy Dimao where he bought he borrowed a bunch of money from his bosses to produce porn movies In order to flip them, but then Roy Dimaos is like starts asking for his money and rich He's like I'll pay him when I can pay him and it's like dude. You're fucking cruising for a bruising Yes, you know what that you know what you're doing here cruising for a bruising He was like Joan Crawford in the film mommy dearest when she was on the board for Pepsi She said I'm here and she actually did great for that brand I don't know if I don't know if Dimao helped the brand or not, but she was very good

Well, Roy Dimao is one of the few guys in the mob who are on the same level as Richard Kuklinski when it came to murder Oh, in fact, he and his crew were so prolific that they eventually came to be known as The murder machine. No, now may I ask well now? Why do they call you the murder machine exactly? That's a funny question. You say there lady Murder machine now. Let's take the let's take the what's apart a machine I think the work of a man would compartmentalize in a way that is mechanical murder a way that people end life Now let's see. Let's look back at the charts All mafia guys always have to do thing. You like the the individual that was associated with me

1974 I do not recall. I do not recall such actions They're professionals see unlike Richard Roy Dimao would kill anyone women children whole families if need be Filling hits for civilians as well as the mob as author Philip Carlo pointed out. I mean Roy Dimao Retailed murder and again if you think this is all ridiculous That all this is too insane to believe too cruel Take five minutes and look up the type of shit the cartels in Mexico do right because at one point in this country We had guys doing the exact same shit on a regular basis Yes, and you can watch that footage live on lively

Yes, you ever feel the need to see what happens there brutal well shows like the sopranos and almost kind of shows kind of goofy side of mobsters and it's true a lot of them I mean they are big fat-headed morons Right do a bunch of dumb shit as well, but people also forget that for a while like this was an incredibly complicated business The United States government didn't really know anything about the mob until 1963 when it was a part of this thing called the McClellan committee That went to go look into the how organized crime worked and they talked to a guy named Joe Vellacchi That told them a bunch of shit that they were like, oh, I had no fucking clue They didn't know that the mob ran so deep like you're talking about the mobs like since I've been around since the late 1800s in

Italy like these like these are like it's a well-entrenched like world of murder and Crime right just kept getting passed along and getting more and more complicated as the generations would increase the business So the FBI learned how the the crime families worked and then they said we're gonna shut those down We're gonna copy and paste their strategies, and we're gonna call it what we do. Yes, what happened? Okay good to know Roy's thing was dismemberment. Oh, he'd worked as a butcher at a key foods out in Canarsie No, get right at the end at the end of the L train. I might have eaten there Yeah, I never these butchers. I'm beginning to have a real thing with butchers Yeah, but while Roy was at key foods he'd learn how to quote what he called

Disassemble a body using a system he himself devised The body will be cut into six pieces head arms legs and torso Almost almost that song Legs or whatever. Now. What did you learn from your summer job? I? Wonder if you ever had a scene like Mickey Rourke and the wrestler where he just he had enough of his life freaked out on someone Well after he disassembled the body the bodies would be wrapped in brown paper Put in a garbage bags and dumped in six different locations all around Brooklyn like garbage cans garbage dumps

Or sometimes just flung into the ocean. It's like it's like Willy Wonka on his magic ticket But the exact opposite And Dimao he didn't pull this shit off alone He was the head of a crew of six other guys who were just as vicious Joey Testa Anthony Center Chris Goldberg Henry Borelli Freddy Denomey and a guy named Dracula The guy that the guy the guy the guy that Dr. Dre sang about

Was it vampires and Dracula Frankenstein where the bed Dre maybe that's that song. Yes. Well, perhaps that was more of a game No, that was song that we thought that was my rap Seminal Dracula rap. They call this guy Dracula because he looked like Bella Legosi But everyone called him Dracula. Okay. All right It said that all together these seven guys were suspected to have murdered over a hundred people Doing all of their dismemberment and the rear apartment of Dimao's bar a little place called the Gemini Lounge Oh my and these guys at the Gemini Lounge. They loved their work

One time Richard was over at the Gemini and went to use the bathroom He noticed a smell coming from the shower. So he pulled back the curtain there He found a dead guy hanging upside down above the tub His throat had been cut and blood was oozing from the wound The guys were bleeding him out because they wanted to make it all that they wanted to make it cleaner when they had to dismember him Okay, so it's fair to say that the bleeding out thing. That's Dracula's idea But my name is Dracula. There's no blood left in the body. You get it. You got it And when Richard walked out of the bathroom Roy joked you see the guy taking a shower

They're just laughing and shit. I get it apparently according to the book five families by Selwyn Rob He had a laugh like a hyena. Oh, there's a real funny funny funny guy Wow very lion king of him. Yeah, he's gonna bad rap by the way They're actually very good animals. They are and they're they are they're scary and they are really kings of the jungle And they're we don't know about your they do I don't know about your hyena revisionism No, remember Planet Earth to the episodes in the cities. They all have those pet hyenas. They're great They're very dangerous animals. They're still you're a comedian. You should love a hyena. All they do is laugh No, no, no, I like I like making comedy that makes people think kissles. I don't really like I don't want people to laugh

I want them to think I want them to be moved. Well, I think you'll have a very successful Netflix special because apparently that's comedy now And then after Roy Dimeo made the joke about the shower they all sat down and had a nice spaghet together Oh got to everything needs to be punctuated with a good a spaghet. I guess Dimeo was also a facilitator of murder since he was based in Canarsie. He was right next to JFK the airport Okay through his connections there Dimeo smuggled hundreds of guns Which are then dispersed to mob families all around the country. All right It does I like when you say mob families. It does feel like like a mob daddy Mom baby, but he said that he would owe they would open up the crate to guns and his favorite things that he'd pick up

I'm like, oh my little baby. Oh my little baby You need to pick up the assault rifles and like kiss them and stuff on the barrel and like laughing Oh Like pretending to suck on his tits shit be like, oh, it's like I'm a mother, huh? Yeah Feel like that's one of those Dana Loche NRA videos Honestly, I don't know about all that that actually I'd say is as bad as Kuklinski was it was Roy Dimeo Who truly deserved to be called the devil? Eventually the Gemini lounge came to be known as simply the slaughterhouse

Well, can you please say it correctly Marcus the slaughterhouse? Oh Excuse me came to be known as simply the slaughterhouse. Oh Well, that does sound kind of a fun name for a bar if it's if it's horror themed and not an actual butcher shop for people So since Richard was behind on his porno payments This is back when Richard and Roy first met since Richard was behind on his porno payments Roy Dimeo went to make a visit Now Roy was a silent partner with the people Richard owed money to so this was not a murderous visit They only wanted the money But still Richard got a little smart during the conversation

So Dimeo pistol-whipped Kuklinski before bashing him in the face with the butt of a shotgun Ah and although Kuklinski would pay his debt and the two would work together for a long time Kuklinski vowed he would one day kill Dimeo for that transgression Dimeo should have miterated on his rug In the meantime though Richard had to play along Because Dimeo was in deep with the Gambino crime family. This meant two things one if Richard killed Dimeo He was as good as dead But more importantly Dimeo was Richard's introduction to the big leagues Not killing Dimeo was a career move

See Dimeo was on his way to try to be he was he was desperate to be a made man in the mafia He wanted it real bad So eventually what Dimeo would do is pick people up like how when the film distribution company when that ran out of money In order to pay him he just acquired it He did the same thing with Kuklinski. He looked at me like oh this guy didn't Didn't mouth off at me after I punched him in the face. I like the way he is. I like it I think he's a straight shooter. I'm gonna hire him and give him some work Especially at the time Kuklinski like he made it act as if he kind of made it out that when he said I'm ready for special work

Everyone was like clamoring to work for with him, but they weren't they didn't know who this guy was right Dimeo was actually the only one crazy enough. Just to say all right You want to kill people you think you can kill people? Let's see what you can do. Yep. So he gave him an audition See Roy he had heard about Richard working for the D. Cavalcantes And he wanted to see if the rumors of this Iceman were actually true So Richard got into Roy's car and the two took a drive from Canarsie over to Greenwich Village in Manhattan They parked the car and Dimeo pointed out a guy walking his dog just a random person on the street any idea What kind of dog?

Do we know they did not specify what kind of dog now? Well Dimeo told Richard Kill him just a random fucking dude walking his dog. So Kuklinski no questions asked and without any hesitation whatsoever guide out of the car brought along the suppressed 38 that Roy had given him and Popped the guy in the back of the head Richard said the guy went down like a bag of laundry He then walked back got in the car and the two leisurely drove away And I'm bringing up just one more time the way the Iceman movie portrays this scene is possibly the most offensive of all really whoa Marcus please sit down

Marcus sit down up. He is sitting down See what they were trying to do the whole time with that movie was to make Richard Sympathetic someone you might even like a little so instead of a man with a dog on the street They had Richard kill a homeless person What they're doing here in the context of the rest of the movie is implying the killing a homeless person Yeah, not quite as bad Bunch of scumbags because after all yeah, what other honestly, that's true Yeah

What other reason is there for replacing the dog walker with the homeless guy right making Richard more reluctant if not to make him a More sympathetic character. Absolutely. No, I don't I did all of this has made me hate the ice, man Yes, I hate it. Yeah, you did this. I still love Michael Shannon. Yeah, me too. I want him to do it I want him to do it again. I want him to get another go Yeah, right I'd love for him to do it again my favorite character on Boardwalk Empire was Michael Shannon's character Easily take Shelter is a wonderful movie. There was a great episode of the flash I believe it was maybe season one episode three where there was a man killing homeless people and the flash said the cops aren't doing

Nothing about it, but I'm gonna quickly take care of this problem and then I'm sure I'll I'll run as fast as possible So that all crime can see how fast I run You do not Understand the flash or the flash is many powers. Yeah in any way whatsoever You know, I don't you know be a fun competition a little off base here But the flash versus tum tum from from three ninjas in a cereal eating competition Who wins the flash? I don't know a tum tum had a big old craven for candy

The flash has to eat a lot because of his enhanced metabolism This is not this is not BuzzFeed unsolved. Okay, this is the last podcast on the left We're not gonna go through nostalgia quick hits So from that point on after Richard killed a guy just walking his dog Richard Kuklinski was Roy Domeo's secret weapon in charge of only the most challenging hits or When the mobster putting out the contract really wanted to make the mark suffer, okay? This is where I'll enter my opinion and to my jump into character for these men to decipher this This is Kuklinski's idea of what Roy Domeo said to him say Roy Domeo told him you my secret weapon

You're my bogeyman. You're gonna go out there. God knows what'll happen when they see your shadow They'll be so upset. He's like, yeah, you had Domeo tell me again, but I don't think that's what what happened I think that what happened is that the first thing that Kuklinski said is that he couldn't stand Domeo's crew Because they were a bunch of like good time Charlie's yucking it up and they also loved to murder Kuklinski likes working alone He also thought he was above everybody else that he was smarter and better than everybody else I think Domeo saw that the crew did not get along with Kuklinski if the crew eventually decided that they didn't like Kuklinski enough They would just fucking kill him. They'd also killed Domeo He is gonna keep everybody happy Domeo also liked controlling people because he was a fat little boy growing up that that was the reason

Why he became what he became was because of all the bullying you received the little boy So now he like playing people like a puppet master So I think that when it came to Kuklinski he kept them separate also There's a lot of people don't want to really acknowledge the bias that the Mafia has against the non-Italian and at the Polish it's true the Polish Hate I would say or not understanding or separation of them was what kept him on the outside That Richard Kuklinski was kept over here to do all these so-called little dirty jobs because he was a pollock that could be used for it And not one of my special

Italian brothers and sisters need to help me become a maid man. This is this is the most sympathetic Henry has ever been towards any group of people I wonder why He also really didn't emphasize being short fat and bullied Which may or may not make you a puppet master of sorts No, I'm just saying and it's a part of the reason why because there's a lot of people talking about like people cast doubt on whether or not Kuklinski even worked the Domeo and a part of that has to do with the list of Domeos crew was put together as the FBI was Shadowing the Gemini lounge and marking the license plates that would go in and out But it seems like they would only really mark the ones of maid men and guys that are actually involved in the family

Kuklinski was to the side and was used as a sort of a secret Well, that might have been to his benefit in some ways though, right? Yeah, he actually never hung out with those guys like he never went to the parties He never did any of that he never did any of that bullshit as far as the social stuff went So he just like looked through the look through the window as they were all celebrating And also like Richard worked for everyone he was a freelancer, you know as you know Henry has taken great pains to point out. He was not Italian. No, he was Polish so he could never be a maid man But because of this he wasn't a member of any particular family

So he worked for all seven East Coast crime families worked for the Ponty's the D. Cavalcantes the Gambino's the Luches the Columbus Luchesies the Columbus the Genoveses and the Bananos the pregos the burrillas the ragus I'm actually sort of afraid of still like making fun of them a little bit because I don't know how much of it's around No, New York. You have a lot more still happening in New York Green Point. It's got a lot of mobs still Williamsburg It's got a lot of mobs still. Oh, they love us. Yeah and Nobody really cared who Richard was doing hits for because he was just that good and they all had a use for him

So he was able to pretty much take hits wherever he could get them And most of them actually didn't even know Richard's real name. He was known only as either the Pollock or Big guy Richard was the guy all of him used when the mob wanted to give someone a preview of hell before they were actually sent there But you know what it is I also wonder a lot of times if he was really that good or if it's mostly just he was just so scary That it's like it's just kind of a thing where they told him he was really good And he began to believe he was really good, but it was just because we might as well just monetize his killing before

He does it for free. Yeah, I mean, I think the being scary makes him really good I mean, it's like Ray Lewis with the Baltimore Ravens that guy was just horrified Immediately as soon as he took the field everyone's like he'll win. He should well, you can see evidence that he was really good I mean, he made great money He always had money He always lost a ton of money gambling and his family always lived a great upper class If not up middle upper middle class if not upper class lifestyle He really come came from nothing to he came from absolutely nothing. He murdered for 30 years without anyone ever catching him

He was Absolutely good at this. I mean there is definitely proof that he was one of the best One of Richard's most disturbing jobs came in 1974 See Richard wasn't just confined to New York and New Jersey. He took jobs that took him all over the country and eventually Overseas But this one in Miami was one of Richie's first big days out According to the guy who put out the hit the mark had beaten and raped the 14-year-old daughter of one of his associates But since the assailant had won a bandana the victim couldn't pick him out of a lineup and since lawful justice could not be done

The mob turned to Richard. Oh, he's like, yeah, of course. I'll go to Miami Nothing works better than a six foot five three hundred pound Polish man in Miami So Richard got in his car and drove to Miami bringing a loaded 38 a Zephyloc bag and a hunting knife with a curved blade That had four notches on the handle one for every person. He'd killed with it. Okay It's kind of gilding the lily there Richie, but Whatever you like my great-grandfather had a gun had a notch but with every person he killed on it. What do you mean? There's a gun. How many people what three? Why did you do that? He ran a liquor store and those were all people who tried to rob him, but he shot in the head instead. Really?

All right, didn't realize that that was in your family lineage there's a lot of murder in my family lineage Yeah, well, that's the old West man. They were all murderers. Yeah, it was 1970. That's right No, no, no, I had a great great uncle who was killed by the same guy who murdered Bonnie and Clyde. Really? Look what a what a claim to fame Yeah Now remember all of this is coming from Richard So you can decide for yourself as to whether this really happened the way Richard said it did So Richard got down to Miami found the mark and let the air out of his victims car tires

When the mark arrived and opened his drunk trunk for the spare Richard came up behind and stuck the 38 in his back telling him quote My friend you need to come with me Now this was among Richard's creepiest affectations. Who knows why but if he ever ever Ever called you my friend. It was almost guaranteed that you were about to die or at the very least We're about to be beaten within an inch of your life. I see it's like when somebody calls someone buddy or when they say hey big guy But he's tiny Yeah, yeah, but it's like but if he called you my enemy you were getting kiss It's the upside down world

So the guy was walked over to Richard's van where Richard handcuffed him stuffed a sock in his mouth and duct taped it shut He then took the mark to a desolate spot on the beach and tied the guy to a palm tree God it's hot out here. You know that right should I get some kind of umbrella for you keep it comfortable or something like that? No, my friend It's gonna be the opposite of that opposite day here on the beach And after the guy was tied Richard said he took down his pants grabbed hold of his balls Ripped him off in one swift motion. What and showed him to the guy. Oh my he has a thing with balls I gotta say he's always immediately going after the balls. They all got a thing with balls

I think honestly that makes a lot of sense You go right there. I guess right there. Yeah, apparently it takes out 350 cubes of pressure per square centimeter to rip balls off a human body Richard's family did say that he once threw a marble table through a window. So he's strong. He's bet Richard was Insanely strong. All right. Good grip. I guess He then took the knife Sliced the dude's dick off. Oh and put it in the Ziploc bag that he brought as later proof to the guy who put out the hit This is called the New York style hot dog That's interesting though because how does the guy know what the other guy's penis looks like yeah, it could really be anyone

You know, it really could be I think the head know what a head looks like, but honestly though If you have if you made the effort yeah to put a penis in the Ziploc bag and take it all the way to New York from Miami You I mean you just take what you get right right now. Do you bring that as a carry-on of you check it? He was driving. Oh, he was driving. He was driving. He was driving. I honestly think he just put it in a bun and carried it through Well after he cut off the guy's dick, that's when the real torture began That's when the real torture began Richard took the knife and Slowly sliced away slivers of flesh from the guy's body pouring kosher salt in the wounds after each slice And finally he cut open the guy's stomach and pulled out his guts

And as his grand finale Richard put a life jacket on the guy dragged him out to the surf by his ankle and And flung them into the water like a bag of garbage good. It's like a scene out of Sin City Yeah, that is crazy, and then he let the sharks take care of the rest Wow, you know, it's funny. Yeah, you know, it's I do a really great impression here there Oh, you want to hear it? Yeah, I know you know a lot of pain I know he maybe it's nice for a little levity a little levity, you know, you can joke around, huh? This is my impression of you

I I'm a funny guy You'll mafia punchline there just a bunch of screams and all this sounds unbelievable It does this sounds completely and totally crazy totally unbelievable But this next part of the story might give the whole thing some credence or at least give Gives credence to the possibility of Richard going down to Miami for a hit On The way back to New Jersey

Richard got into a road rage incident with a van load of guys in South Carolina Oh Richard they were happy in good time Charlie's and driving all over the road and shooting gun like a fucking Yelp in and drinking and swerving and shit thinking that they're thinking that they're invincible Oh my goodness So Richard pulled over and the guys pulled over as well And when they got out of the van with bats in hand Richard took out his 38 shot them all dead Got back in the car and drove away. Just just never engage in violence with the mafioso building and building and building and building

You're gonna come close to the car and come to close to my car. I get I get mad for Richie sometimes Yeah, when it comes especially with the road rage It just as I understand it because the people have said that I'm an angry driver. Yes. Yeah, you are horribly angry driver. I'm a Warrior on the road. No, it is impossible to have a conversation with you when we're on the card again No, it's unnerving. I feel like I'm with my father again. Yes. I feel like I'm with my father again inside my own mind Yeah, and this incident actually happened Okay, there were news stories and there were police reports and until Richard Richard told the story

This was a mysterious cold case like three young dudes dead by a van in them on the side of the road in South Carolina And now these guys they were acting like a bunch of dicks, right? But what sent Richard over the edge was them giving him the finger To Richard. This was a capital offense. I guess God help you if you suggested that maybe he was wrong in this We've got a clip right here from the documentary the Iceman and the psychiatrist in which the psychiatrist Asked Richard if he felt like these dudes acting like a bunch of dicks was worthy of murder You almost made me mad. I Know

What made you mad about that? I don't know, but you almost did Can you figure out what it is? No, try to look at it. Look at what made you mad there. I Don't know I Think it must have been something you said Yeah, obviously, but I don't know what it was. Could it be that I was challenging you and it sounded judgmental? Hmm. Yeah, I could be because you've got me annoyed with you now Yeah, that's the truth How mad are you? I

bet Pretty I I Feel a little flushed So that's means that I've reached the point in my life that I'm a little annoyed What would you like to do doesn't matter I Don't think it's gone to the point that I'm actually gonna do anything stupid Well, I'll say if he's a little bit upset. That's a lot upset for anybody else

That therapist I hope that he was like slowly walking out of the room He he really does stick it to him in this interview But it like this guy man Kuklinski just reminds me of all the worst attributes of every one of my father's horrible friends You know, it's like you just look at him because a partially it's like you're scared of him I also want to roll my eyes at him. It's like it's such a weird combo of being like you fucking you're just he's such a piece of shit Yeah, interesting. I was trying to listen for the clicking sound. It seemed like there was a little click in there And there might have been I don't know but there was that that's a that his word is annoyed In the book over and over again. It's like Richard got annoyed

And I didn't really understand when I was reading I didn't really understand like what that meant until I watched that clip And then I realized like oh when the way he says annoyed Means I am angry enough to kill you right right and I will not and I will not regret it at all I think it's safe to say Kuklinski would have hated John Leguizamo in the past You wouldn't have been down with stinky dinky Absolutely not I think he would have problems with John Leguizamo the person So now I think it's time to talk about the rats. Yes. Yes animal the rats are people who snitch Animal oh, yeah, if we're gonna talk we've been talking about rats this whole time

We're talking about fucking the ice man. He's the biggest rat of them all Apparently a local playboy as Carlo called him was fooling around with the much younger daughter of a Sicilian made man When the father asked the playboy what his intentions were the dude said he was just out to have some fun Can you imagine saying that to Carolina's father? Oh, if he asked you like what what what you were what you were gonna do with Carolina and you were just like Yeah, we just having fun Yeah, fun about it being happy the fooling around Me and like I I would go insane. Yeah, of course, but this is a Sicilian made man

Mm-hmm, and just having some fun That was the wrong answer. Okay. Yeah, so word got around to Richard that the Sicilian was looking for someone to make this guy suffer And so Richard made the guy suffer, but this time he wanted to try something new All right, see Richard was also an avid hunter and one day he'd come across a cave a Cave inhabited with hundreds upon hundreds of rats So Richard got an idea he abducted the playboy took him to the cave and restrained him to the point where he couldn't move Then Richard wrapped wet raw hide strips around the playboy's arms forehead and testicles Thing about raw hide is that while it does loosen when it gets wet

It tends to draw up and get much tighter as it dries Oh So Richard sitting there watching the guy beg and plead through the duct tape wrapped around his face as the raw hide Squeezed his balls until they were in Richard's words tomato red. They weren't quite at Clifford red He has a thing with he's seen so many different kind of balls He's a connoisseur So after a bit the rats smelled a meal and came out one by one nipping at the guy's skin This whole time Richard was taken Polaroids as proof and after Richard was satisfied

He left the playboy to his fate and when Richard came back two days later He said there was nothing left but a skeleton and when Richard gave the Polaroids to the Sicilian Richard got a 10 grand bonus for a job. Well done Now Richard said he did this multiple times and would eventually start leaving a camera going so he could watch the process At his leisure. It's like creep show. Yeah crazy and this is what he said about that When I did that and I watched it out the devil was that Super I think it was I found it This tasteful and it used to make me nervous for some reason. I

Said I was some type of a Feeling which I wasn't too keen on having But I did it because it gave me a feeling of some kind and therefore I was trying to find out what it was that was giving me some type of feeling but it was the the horror of what was going on or the screaming that was happening or just a nastiness of it I never figured it out

But I did that quite a few times to Maybe too many times I mean it's just The feeling is the fact that he can't place the feeling is quite interesting Yeah, the feeling is just like shouldn't have fed that guy to rats because that's not a good thing to do Also, what if he becomes the rat man and then he hunts me and he also has a pension for cheese? This is like horrifying. Yeah, and he went even further in his conversations with carlo. This is what he said I thought about Going to see a psychiatrist like seeing if I could get you know

some help maybe some medication But of course I couldn't do that I mean, what would I say to a shrink? I torture and kill people for money and I like my work. I don't think so I would say that's a fine place to start If you go to the therapist like maybe yeah, let's start with that all the torture and the murdering of people Now I can already hear all you skeptics out there

Giving the commands and the no ways and such and such because after all, you know You'd think someone would have found one of these videos or one of these polaroids You mean you hear the sound of someone furiously typing at their computer in their basement of their family's house? Come on Well, honestly, if you get into the world of mafia nerds They're pretty touchy. You know, they don't like the words of their mafia people sullied by other people's so-called stories They don't like their wonderful heroes to be sullied in any way whatsoever. I like a tommy good My name is also tommy

So in response to the skeptics, okay I did a little research on rats. You did in 1945 a researcher named cp rector did a study called Incidents of rat bites and rat bite fever in baltimore. Okay This was a study to see just how much rats really liked the flesh of humans In the course of this study Rector gave a group of rats as much human blood as they could stand and found that the more blood the rats were given The more they craved it really he found they could ingest four times the amount of blood Then they would normally eat in a day

So if a rat if a rat's a Buddhist, they're like with any luck. I'll come back as a mosquito. They're so happy with the blood Well, his conclusion was that rats can develop a real craving for fresh human blood Hey, all this other scientists cp. Love the work that you're doing. Um We should just get back to bubblegum research because that's kind of what we're doing here at bubblegum. Um We didn't really need to purchase all these rats or feed them blood We actually have I mean jerry has some more specific questions about where you got the blood Yeah And since richard says that he used the same cave each time

It stands to follow that the rats developed a taste for human flesh Wow And since the brown rat the most common rat species here in the northeast has a lifespan of about two years As long as richard didn't take a huge break from this myth method And it doesn't seem like he did then there was always rats around who remembered the last meal Oh, my they must have been the size of like a nutrient or something that by the end of this thing huge big rats Big ass rats and he would go and he'd groom these rats apparently He'd go down to the cave and he'd throw meat down there to watch them swarm and he'd laugh and chuckle

Because in a weird way the rats were his friends Yeah, when you said groom I I just pictured him like combing them putting little ribbons in their heads But no, he's feeding them flesh. I get it. All right. So actually if you're a rat, this is the place to be No, yeah, you're beautiful. You little beautiful little woman rat. If only you were not italian Now furthermore concerning how much rats actually like human flesh Rats were a huge problem on the killing fields of world war one This is a quote from a soldier at the time I saw some rats running from under the dead men's great coats

Enormous rats fed with human flesh. My heart pwned it as we edged towards one of the bodies His helmet had rolled off the man displayed a grimacing face stripped of flesh the skull bear The eyes devoured from the yawning mouth left a rat Wow, yeah, I that's I just thought they liked pizza because that video went viral on pizza rat But no turns out they would have rather have a human leg It's so good. It's so good. It's so good. Tear it up the internet There were even numerous reports from world war one of men too injured to leave the field or even move Being slowly eaten alive by rats could have done without that

Good god. Yeah, and they started with the fleshy parts of the face. Oh Now there were never Any men eaten down to the bone, but why would the rats eat everything when there were literally Hundreds of other bodies with the best bits still waiting Sure, right and then you got the other little bugs down there too, right? They're always in there eating the eating the flesh got a bunch of bugs. Yeah Yeah, it's like the movie bugs life. Yeah, I remember the bugs life if there was way more corpses in it Yeah, I remember that scene and in modern times just a few years ago

A hospital in washington dc was so overrun with rats that the corpses in the morgue Were said by a former employee to have rats burrowing into their vaginas and anuses to get at the gooey insides Ratatouille too. Yeah, the name of that hospital was gemini hospital. You didn't want to check out the showers Good lord And so there is ample evidence that a rat has no qualms whatsoever about eating a person living or dead And while it does sound too cruel to be possible again Just go take a couple more looks at the actual pictures of what the cartels do to people

There is absolutely no difference between them and people like richard kuklinski or roi demayo If the mob had ever gotten a foothold in the police and the military as strongly as the cartels did after the peso tanked I can almost guarantee we would have seen heads on highway overpasses here as well crazy stuff But according to what richard said about what he did he wasn't that far off One time there was a guy out in la who owed richard a ten thousand dollar porno debt. It's a lot of money Uh-huh. That's a lot of that's a lot of porno bucks. Oh, yeah. And so richard traveled all the way out to la And when the guy refused to pay this is what richard did richard said he showed up at the guy's shop with a frag grenade in his pocket and god knows where he got it from

You got it from roi demayo because roi demayo you like to show off his grenade collection So that means that richard kuklinski took a frag grenade on an airplane. Yes. This is back in the day Yeah, this is pre 9 11 when it was fun to fly in planes and he wasn't talking about how fun It was to be in business class knowing that he was a contract killer or everybody else was a business man Even though they probably also all were contract killer. Yeah, but just look it's fun that roi demayo used a grenade to kill Vinnie mook Yeah, which is how we got made nice interesting So he's just in business class looking at the cover of mega deaths killing is my business is business is good

And just laughing while holding the grenade and everyone's like going to la, huh? Yeah, I brought my new jersey apple Oh So in la after a generic criminal back and forth richard reached into his pocket pulled the pin and handed it to the guy And when the guy asked what it was richard said What do you mean? What is this? Richard said it's a surprise Oh, okay. See the fucking joker

What is happening when the guy What kind of surprise is talking about here? Richard said this one And threw the grenade behind the counter before calmly walking out Surprise it's like total recall. Yeah. Yeah Another time in la richard said he tried something he'd seen in a bugs bunny cartoon Oh my honestly cartoons. Maybe he should not be allowed to watch Band them and this was a tactic he'd use again and again. Tell me he dresses up

Tell me he dresses up as a sexy lady. He dresses up as a sexy lady. He knocks on the door. It's like housekeeping See when someone's got a peephole in their door light shines through So richard figured once the light got blocked. That's when his target was at the door and he was right Richard's mark on this trip was a guy who refused to leave his apartment because he knew the mom was gonna kill him if he did So richard found out where the guy was and knocked on the door when the guy came up to look through the peephole Richard put the muzzle of the gun up to the hole and blew a hole right through the dude's eye Geez very clever. Very clever. Very clever. He was very clever. He's as clever as bugs bunny Bugs bunny was super clever. I know super clever

Now even though richard was doing pretty well for himself Dimeo's crew of killers were starting to develop some pretty nasty coke habits Okay, and the more coke they did the more inventive and cruel they got For example one day richard was invited on a fishing trip on Roy Dimeo's new boat Hey, you know what happens when your boss invites you out And then you have to go and like hang out and you have to be like with it even though like richard did like fishing But I think what he most liked about fishing was being alone. Yeah, right, right, right? Do we know what the name of the boat was because it was very creative. Yeah, I'll bet they would probably the ss spaghetti

You know what I mean? It's one of those the ravioli ravioli is this under Along for the ride were three members of the murder machine and a guy richard didn't know named bob When they were far enough off the coast Dimeo started chumming the waters and eventually the sharks showed up And everyone was laughing and having a great time But suddenly Dimeo walked over to bob his face dropped and he said I know You're a fucking rat And with that Dimeo shot bob in the face But bob didn't die because plenty of people get shot in the face and don't die. Oh, sure every day

Absolutely, you know what it actually does happen every day. I know it does happen every day What was the name? What was the big old the long island family there start to the be there the guy the gal was shot by the By the woman that would the guy was having an affair with the wife was shot Very famous story in the Lorraine a bobbett. No, that's the one who cut off the dog Which by the way, she's the kuklinsky of women Good lord. No, you remember. Uh, Amy Fisher. Uh, Amy Amy Fisher Long Island Lolita. That's what they call her. I remember being um, oh man. She did a Uh, uh porno, I think yeah, she did and so did mr. Bobbit. Yeah, mr. But yeah, franken when it called franken penis

Frank penis weird What is bob lay screaming and bleeding on the deck of the boat the other three killers scooped him up and threw him over the side Did they make a pun about his name bob? They probably did but then at some point don't they look at each other and realize it's not funny No, they look at they looked at each other and laughed their asses off watching the shit because the sharks would come up Take a nip the whole time this guy's screaming There's blood shooting out of his face and then finally just one shark goes up grabs him pulls him under and bob Don't come back up again. All right

And richard, he said he had a fucking blast really. Yeah, he said he most and he never has fun Yeah, and he said he appreciated the method of disposal But pretty soon richard was gonna come up with the method where he never had to worry about disposal ever again If he didn't want to richard was about to make friends with cyanide And that is where we'll pick back up for the conclusion of richard kuklinski the conclusion I don't know Ladies and gentlemen, I can't be here. Awesome. All right. My god again. I'm gonna say not a nice guy. Nope. There it is

No, no, the sharks were fed the rats were fat. I guess for those two animal kingdoms. It was a relatively good run my yes Um, I mean absolutely frightening. We're porcelain through I don't think we're even gonna touch upon the fact that he said that he killed jimmy hoffa. No, which he didn't I don't think he did. I think maybe he killed the guy that looked like jimmy hoffa. Yeah, but that's like the closest to it Everybody has a jimmy hoffa story. There are so many mobsters with it I heard one when I was a little kid where it was like my the my de facto older brother Roy was a guy that helped me was that he was connected to the mob and he was like

I'll tell you a secret about jimmy hoffa. They said they killed him. They chopped him up and they fed him to a bunch of dogs Wait, wait, Roy de Mayo was your was your buddy growing up? Yes, very very frightening. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, kuklinski city went to chicago. They murdered jimmy hoffa They brought him back to uh, new jersey. They put him in a oil can like an oil drum And then like crushed him into a car and then it got sent to japan. But that oh really? Yeah Interesting, but that is the story that I've heard they they say it's most likely. He's just in a canister somewhere. Yeah Of course, you know, there's many stories. Yeah, there's many stories He just shot news buried is they the one that he was he was put in the meadowlands. Yeah

Oh, yeah, the giant stadium. Yeah, and then there's that other theory that he was, you know He was driving through pennsylvania just looking for a nice weekend and he ended up getting nothing but trouble. Nothing but trouble Down to five percent on rotten tomatoes, by the way. How is it going down? Come on. I don't know because we keep Giving attention to this movie and people keep watching it and they keep hating it. They're blaming. I like it You know blame dan accurate if anything also just get in the right headspace and that is one of the funniest bobo It's so lovable bobo is so lovable. But speaking of nothing but trouble. We're on the nothing but trouble tour right now We're gonna be coming coming to phoenix next week and we also added a show To our west coast trip. We're gonna be in santa anna on august 18th

We're gonna be down orange county the tickets are on sale for that So just go to our website follow the links or just google last podcast on the left santa anna Uh, and we will see all there and in more important news august 19th of summer slam marcus You're formally invited. Thank you. Uh, henry if you're in town as well You're formally invited. You guys can hold my universal championship belt if you don't come and you could come That's a slight but we're not we're not good because you didn't show up to wrestle me It's gonna be a long flight from santa anna all the way back to new york city And you got a lot to think about the constable baring carbons gonna be wrestling. There's a lot going on so all I know is

I'm driving to phoenix from la which I've never done before and I'm excited for the desert drive alone It should be beautiful. Yeah, I can't wait. You should listen to a horse with no name the entire time Oh my god It's a great song Bread the whole thing man. Oh, yeah, man. That was America. I know that was america I said I love america the band. Ah, but also there's a band called bread. Bread's pretty good too. Yeah, bread's fun It's in the same wheelhouse. Yeah, it is. Yeah, bread is fine I would like to thank people giving to our patreon. Of course. Yes. Thank you very much

If you'd like to give to our patreon get a bunch of bonus content You can go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left. Yep We got a fun interview lined up here for the very near future that I think you'll enjoy. Mm-hmm. Yeah next twic Um, I guess you can follow us in social media. Who gives a shit? Who cares? I got my instastories on instagram at ben kissle one if you want to check out my new puffin dog He's adorable if you want to check out my new georgie dog on instagram and then we got the old wendy there She is my stable dog. We're coming up on a year How old is wendy by the way? We don't know according to the we did the doggie dna thing for her and

Health-wise she is akin to a 32 year old human. Okay, but it depends on what kind of human Because it's like I'm doing better Like but other people I know are still monsters. So yeah, yeah, no, hopefully she's a healthy 32 year old human Yeah, puffins around the same age and I think uh, so is so is georgie. No, georgie's uh, not quite two Okay, not yeah, she's only 14 years old in human. Yeah, they'll pop And follow uh, just follow last podcast left on whatever you want to follow it at lp on the left Yes, and thanks for whoever created that little dog. Uh, that dog design was funny. Maybe we can make that as a shirt I'm not sure all that will the last podcast. I love

It's quite beautiful. Yes. Well, thank you guys so much for listening as always And go listen all the other shows on last podcast network.com. Is this casey anthony here? Shut up You're nice. Are you a dj? All right, everyone hail yourselves hail satan elgin Hail me magustylations. My thighs are sore from using a leg machine. Well, you are gonna look so good for that wedding Yeah, my ass is gonna be so fucking perp for that wedding You're gonna be like, oh man. I want to put sushi on top of that stank ass

Oh and uh one more thing unfortunately, uh ad-free episodes are no longer on stitcher premium But you can still listen ad-free episodes Uh over on our patreon. Yes, so please do that sign up ad-free apps Oh and uh one other thing we've seen a lot of people talking about the press release. There's a song about people talking I love that harry nelson. I love it. Oh Don't call me that Yeah, harry nelson Sounds like a slanderer stir

Uh, but yeah, we uh are uh going to the roost uh the rooster teeth network, but just for ads. Yeah, just for ads Nothing changes guys. The product is the exact same. I promise you we couldn't tame henry if we try with a bull whip There's no there's nothing changes because honestly, we can't change. No, we absolutely cannot no nothing's gonna change And we're not leaving last podcast network or anything like that. I mean everything's gonna stay the exact same way We're still gonna be an independent voice Uh, yeah, nothing's gonna change. It's just a nothing. It's a new ad agency The only thing that changes is if you're blue apron. That's it. That's pretty much it That's it. Yeah, and even if we you know did go over to the roost like nothing would change anyway

No, they're cool guys, man. Yeah, so they bought me drinks. They're in for life The way the bed kissles hardest through his liver Come on folks. Yeah. Yeah, so not a damn thing's gonna change. So uh, yeah. Yeah promise promise and promise Hail yourselves. Have some fun. See the sun. See the sun. Have some fun. See the sun. That's an I like it because it rides And it's a good message. Goodbye one.