Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 398: Heaven's Gate Part II - Tomb Time

Episode Date: January 25, 2020

On the second part of our series on Heaven's Gate, we break down the full belief system of the cult, how the years they spent in campgrounds helped develop it, and just what it was that turned the entire cult to suicide.  LISTEN TO LAST PODCAST ON THE LEFT FREE ON SPOTIFY

Hey everyone, Ben Kitzel here. As we've been saying, we're going exclusive to Spotify starting February 14th. That's Valentine's Day. So it's time to get ready for the move. You can download the Spotify app for free. You don't have to put down a credit card or pay anything. Just download the app, search for Last Podcast on the left, and listen to our show like you normally would. Plus, the rest of the Last Podcast network is there too. And of course, all of your favorite music. If you want to get new episodes as soon as they come out, just follow the show on Spotify, and new episodes will pop into your library. It's super simple. We'll be talking more about this in the upcoming weeks, but get ready. Valentine's Day is the day. Listen free on Spotify.

Man, I wish that I could shed this vehicle. You know, I've been doing that beautiful vehicle of yours. Look at how the five days a week in the gym and I still look like Louis Anderson dehydrated. I love it. I wish I could get rid of this vehicle so much. I'm trying to shed my attachments. I'm already drinking LaCroix, which is already sacrificing flavor from my life. It's cancer causing. It's not cancer causing. Where are you getting that from? The internet. You sound like my aunt, Carol, when you say stuff like that. You sound like somebody says, I don't drink Ad Cause Cancer. I drink Diet Coke. Cancer causing. Isn't that nice? You can just say those two words. You just do it at the top of the show. Okay. But I'm trying to shed this vehicle,

but the only thing that's really holding on, the only thing that's keeping me here plugged into this bullshit is I got to see Doodlittle. Doodlittle. The PR campaign for Doodlittle. Have you seen they made a rabbit crook one of his eyebrows? He made a turtle wink. They made a fucking trailer, and what have they got saved for the rest of the movie? If they're just showing that fun stuff in the trailer, I can't kill them at suicide yet. Oh my. I mean transition to the next level. I agree. You'll be very surprised by what the turtle can wink in that film. Wink it. Eddie Murphy will always be my Dr. Doodlittle. I'm not going to watch this trash that Hollywood's putting out right now just because we have a white supremacist in the White House. But now we have

a white doodlittle. Wow, dude. I don't think so. You are going both barrels today. All right, everyone. This is the last podcast on the left. I am Ben Kissel, staring at Marcus Parks. You look rejuvenated. You're fresh. You're young. I'm feeling good. You look good. Thank you. And then we have Hollywood Henry Sabrowski looking wonderful. Why was that a struggle? No, I said it. Why did that take a beat? That took a beat? Like you did look at me. You absorbed the way I looked, and then you decided to slightly jab me. Why? Yes. Hey, man, I'll take it. You know what? I'll take it. No, you do look good. We all look good. You're looking great. Thank you. I actually commented on how good you looked when you walked in. Yes, and I'm going to go to HR about

it. And I am HR, so I have a complaint to file with myself. Are you guys ready to get bored to death? No. That's a horrible tease. That is the worst way you could possibly open this fucking episode. This is very exciting. This is about a man named Marshall, and isn't that fun? And I really believe that this guy, he's funny, underrated humor, and of course, Marshall Applewhite. Why are we talking about him? He is the head of the Heavens Gate cult, and we are on to Heavens Gate, part two. So near the beginning of 1975, Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles, with their cult on the verge of extinction, sent a letter to two members of their inner circle from their self-imposed seclusion, saying they could be reached at a post office

box in Gulfport, Mississippi. Always kick that can to Gulfport, Mississippi. That's fun. It's like Publisher's Clearinghouse. Now, this didn't necessarily mean they were actually in Gulfport, but still, T. and Doe, as they were now known, encouraged anyone who was still interested in following their teachings to write to that address for more information. As far as what that information was, T. and Doe were teaching that they were bringing messages from Alien Heaven, which they called the next level, straight from Alien God, or as they called him, the father. I do love that they still relied on the U.S. Postal Service. Had to. Had to. It's the only thing that they could still depend upon in this Luciferian-led world. For some reason,

this is the very beginnings of their belief system. We will see, as the years go, especially as now they pull into total isolation over the next, like, 15 years, where they will slowly but surely chip their religion into a shape that is very specific to them. And might I say, stinks of lentils. I am sick of these lentils. Oh, there's nothing wrong with a good lentil. Flows right through you. That's the first thing Natalie also said when I was attacking the diet, the diet regimen. I have a bunch of cartoon pictures of Marshall Appalachite trying to make like a fun version of why they're only eating, like, rock soup this week. And I showed it to Natalie. Natalie's like, this actually sounds very sensible. And I was like, I am so sick of everybody

relating to these people. Why are we relating to them? So, just so we're clear, right now, where we are with Heaven's Gate and what we talked about in part one, this is their roaring 20s. Yeah. This is when they're out there. They're getting footloose. They're wearing their flappers. They're drinking more than one cola a night. They're getting nuts. So, it gets more isolated from here. Yeah. But in their theology, the father, aka God, and the son, aka Jesus, were both alien beings who were inhabiting the bodies of Bonnie Nettles and Marshall Appalachite, with Nettles playing host to God, while Appalachite had Jesus. He's the admiral. No, he's not the admiral. He's the captain. Who's to kneel? We'll get to all that later.

They said that they were bringing the same message that Jesus had brought 2000 years ago, and they were bringing it in advance of Armageddon, which to them was going to be a technological and material event, rather than a supernatural one. See, one of the interesting things about Appalachite and Nettles' reading of the Bible was that even though it sounds wacky, it was actually more literal than what most Christian churches teach. They went extra literal. Yeah. They mean every single thing that they say, and they make it a point from the very beginning, that they're not talking about any sort of ethereal spiritual plane ever. They're talking about outer space. I remember that when Jesus was carrying the cross up the mountain to the hill

where he would be hung, where he's like, thank God I got my jays on, because without these, I would be totally uncomfortable. I would love to see a commercial where it's Jesus Christ struggling with the crucifix, right? You know, and the little girl comes and wipes his brow, but then a big titted chick with his fucking, cut all the way down, brings him a cliff protein bar. And then he just picks up that crucifix and just spears it through the chest of a centurion, and then it just starts fighting everybody. And then he just, he just has sex with that woman deep into the night. And it's just, thank you, Cliff Bar, for not making me open heaven to all these stupid sinners. Turns out Jesus loved the chocolate mint. Love chocolate mint, Cliff Bars.

The difference was that Applewhite and Nettles were approaching the Bible from an ancient alien perspective by teaching that the Bible was a literal truth written about actual events exactly as they occurred. They said that the only reason why the authors of the Bible talked about clouds, gods, angels, and miracles was because they didn't have the vocabulary or the understanding to name them for what they actually were. Extraterrestrials in UFOs. The people who did have that vocabulary, though, were Applewhite and Nettles followers. In February of 1976, the two gave an interview in which they estimated that their follower count was somewhere between 300 and a thousand. Oh, you're gonna get, you're gonna want to get those numbers buttoned up if

you're gonna go on Shark Tank. Mr. Wonderful is gonna tear you apart. Seriously, it is not gonna hold water because Mr. Wonderful is gonna look at the, he's gonna take, he's gonna do an evaluation and you're gonna be fucked because they had 30 people outside of a 7-Eleven maybe. It was probably closer to 200. Okay. Now somewhere around there, and by the time Nettles declared that the harvest was closed at that heckler-heavy talk in 1976, only 88 made the cut. Huh. A couple of months after the proclamation, Tee and Doe scheduled a camp rendezvous at Medicine Bow National Forest in Wyoming, telling their members that it was time for a demonstration. Now you remember the original idea of the demonstration was that Tee and Doe were going to publicly crucify

themselves, die on the cross and that they would, they would disappear. Uh-huh. They would physically disappear and in three days later come back to prove this all, all this crap and they, and they decided to do this, I guess near the volleyball courts, that this is where, this is where it's gonna take. You're gonna have Bonnie just being like, I don't think they'll get the nail down everybody, nail down. Now you guys playing volleyball, I guess that's fine because human debtors, we're gonna bleed to death over here. So they were truly going to be crucified? No. Okay. I mean they, well that was the, that was the pitch. Yeah. That was their pitch. Okay. That was the pitch. That's what they were saying. They were the two witnesses from Revelation. They were

about to become martyrs. They would be taken up into the spaceship and so on and so forth. Okay. But when the followers arrived, Applewhite said, demonstrations canceled. What? It's canceled. What are you talking about? It's canceled. This is like when they went to Wally World's and National Lampoon's and John Candy was the only one working there. They held them up by gunpoint to go on all the rides. I know that we were all very excited. We all wanted this, this transformation to happen. We all were, I was too. I was. I could wait to die. I know you were, you're one of our goons. Yeah. I'm so happy you showed up. But I left the nails on the top of my car in the parking lot. Would you believe it when we left the Home Depot? And I'm just not going back because I

am embarrassed. Oh man. Yep. Here's your roast chicken. I wanted to see someone get crucified today. Oh man. Oh man. Well, they said it was canceled because the followers were not ready to enter the next level. They're going to blame the audience that showed up. Blame the audience. Yep. Applewhite said that they'd spent way too much time on the demonstration itself and not enough time on their own personal growth because that was the most important part. You couldn't ascend to the next level and become a sexy gray alien if you're only focused on the eventual Ascension. You're going to forget about the actual work that needs to be done. But why would they work on themselves? Theirself is just going to be trash. It's going to be left on the

ground on Main Street. No one's going to care. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. That's the thing because at this point the body was supposed to be turned into a sexy alien through a biological and chemical process. Well, you got to get used to it. You got to get your body used to it. This is why you were bad at school, Kissel. No, just go to Palm Beach, Florida. You can get your body turned into anything. You never studied. No, but this is all you and I, Kissel, this is where you and I are vaguely aligned because I also was bad at schoolwork, right? I don't like homework. I didn't like all this because I would be the same thing. I would be one of the 88 people saying like, yeah, I'll drive to Wyoming to watch these two idiots crucify themselves. And if a UFO does

show up, fucking yes. Great. Righteous. Amazing. But then we show up and then they want me to go on a diet and then I, and now we're going to go and I'm literally going to go and stay in LaQuinta's with these two, with the two worst roommates that ever existed, a man who doesn't blink and body nettles who's all pussy. You know what I mean? So now I don't want to deal with any of this shit. I'm out. No, they're full of lentils. You cannot share a room nor a bathroom with these kinds of people. Well, they found that nettles and Appal wide had changed their attitude when it came to how hands on they were going to be with all of their followers. So the group got down to the business of the here and now. And this technique was actually brilliant because it required members

to focus every single ounce of energy on the present instead of worrying about the future in any way whatsoever. They said, you got to forget about the Ascension. You can't think about the Ascension. You've got to work on your personal growth here and now. And this is called Control 101. But in the case of this cult, giving yourself over completely to Tien Doe was framed as a way to achieve personal growth rather than achieving something for the collective. There's an interesting essay I read that was sent to me by a listener. And I want to say thank you very much, A, for sending me, sending this to us through the side stories email that was written by Roy Wallace called the Social Construction of Charisma that talks about it breaks down the relationship

between a group and a charismatic leader. And one of these is one of the tenets is this idea of what's called a counterproductive goals, which is this where it starts getting you right now into this world where immediately it sends the temperament of Tien Doe. We're going to give you these little things to do that are these little little errands and shit as you go and then and tasks and things ways to live your life. And then what that will do is that it does is what it's what what dogmeat said. It focuses you in on your relationship directly with pleasing your charismatic leader and how the two of you relate to each other. The charismatic leader has to have an audience in order to exist. And Tien Doe on some level had to have a conversation even though I am

with you dogmeat from last episode saying they are true believers, they are starting to believe that these these energies are inside of them and they are looking for signs. But at the same time it is not real to them as well if they don't have a crowd that is also there as a part of this weird cyclical relationship. They are two halves that need each other and this is the first step of it that shows like we have to have you without you. We're not living gods. If we crucify if we crucify ourselves right now we're just two dead nerds that park rangers have to pull off a cross in the middle of you know and you gotta protect the wolves. They have all these other responsibilities they should be doing. It sounds kind of like what the people who created the video game Death

Stranding also want you to do. Walk around. Just mundane tasks and then at some point you can maybe achieve enlightenment but it never really happens. Well Tien Doe also pulled a page from the Joseph Smith Handbook. See for the previous year or two Applewhite and Nettles have been letting their followers run willy-nilly throughout the country without a whole lot of guidance. Meeting when they wanted to meet and talking about whatever they wanted to talk about. There was not really a lot of guidance from Central. The problem with this is that followers were getting tired of chasing rumors of Tien Doe meetings across America with no payoff. They started grumbling which is human nature and in one case a follower had quote-unquote

visions that Tien Doe were not who they said they were. What? What? They were lying. You know what it was they just saw accidentally Marshall Applewhite eating a taquito somewhere in front of a gassy. He's just watching them go hmm oh this is good I love this adobe chicken. Then it slips as soon as he admits to loving adobe chicken even once. We're all fucked. He's a human after all. So to nip a potential insurrection in the bud Applewhite and Nettles clarified that all of the information from the next level from heaven was channeled through a quote chain of mind. Information flowed from the next level to Nettles first. Then it flowed from Nettles to Applewhite and then it went from Applewhite to everybody else. Yeah you're living in it. It's a

teased way. No just living in it. Oh I got on me. I got a grilled chicken sandwich stuck inside my belly button. I guess it must be God's will then for y'all. I'll eat it Miss Nettles. Bonnie Sidebar we should talk about some of these messages you received before we meet with the class. So after Applewhite and Nettles put everyone in their place the real purpose for the Wyoming rendezvous was revealed. It was finally time to begin preparations for life in space. In order to prepare Tien Doe instituted a wildly strict program of self-denial and discipline which they called the process and the foundation of this program was abstention from so-called vices and human attachments. Naturally there was no

drug use, no beer drinking, no cigarette smoking, but members also had to give up material possessions, relationships with family and friends, and especially sex. So it's a no fun call to this point? No. I mean it depends on what your definition of fun is sir. None of those things. You gotta have at least one of those. But one of the things I find interesting about the abstention rules is that although most of the things Applewhite and Nettles banned lied firmly in the sinful sphere, they never to the best of my knowledge actually used the word sin. Huh. Applewhite and Nettles were not guilt-tripping their adherents. Instead all of this was framed as a choice. If you wanted to be a part of the group that went to heaven on a spaceship, right,

abstention was necessary. If not, you could take your chances on earth with the Luciferians. My question is though, right, like this is the vessel. Are we to the point now where the full body goes into the spacecraft or so we're still in the full body? Totally. Okay, because otherwise this is a rental and what do you do with rentals? You light them on fire, you smoke it in, rub a hamburger all over the seats. Whatever you want to do. Absolutely, because when I'm in a rental, the way I find parking is that I just nudge various bumpers of cars until I get to the spot. But you say that they were not guilt-tripping their adherents, right? But as I'll talk a little bit more, I watched a lot of footage of Marshall Applewhite speaking and guilt-tripping,

it's weird. Their punishment system was more inherent in their very bottom of their entire bulge scenario where it's this idea of, yeah, sure, yeah, reject the ultimate truth if that's what you want. Sure. Yeah, I'm in touch with the ultimate truth and it leads to pure bliss and anybody that doesn't believe us is a part of the problem that is driving the earth and to be, which will eventually, you know, it will be spated over and right now it's all cute and I'm not saying what I really mean, which is I do believe that, like, a race of robots will unleash a field of death on this world after we all depart. But I'm not going to say that, but I mean, sure, leave. Yeah, you leave. Wait a second. You and the rest of your life. Yo, dude, you said all of that out

loud and that was like, what did you say about the robots? These cue cards. I gotta stop reading these cue cards. Damn. Well, for Heaven's Gate, Earth was actually a cosmic classroom where living beings had to prove themselves worthy of the next level by avoiding and overcoming the temptations laid out by the Luciferians. But the Luciferians weren't trying to tempt you in order to lure you into the flames of Hell because we're already in Hell. This is Hell? Well, it's Hell or Purgatory, depending on how well you live your life. You can get to Purgatory if you're lucky, but the point of temptation is to keep us here. That's why we have chicken nuggets. Yeah. Because they try they chicken nuggets are supposed to keep us here, wallowing in this purgatory of beer and

seeing my wife's beautiful breasts and going on vacation and playing video games and laughing with my friends. All this disgusting shit that I have to deal with all the time. But those are fun things to do. That's Hell, my friend. That's Hell. Yeah, that's Hell. That's not Hell was like living like Albert Fish, but without the erection. No, that's absolute Hell. That's just everyday life is Hell or Purgatory. Okay, so the best we can do is break even. Best we can do is break even. That's why I like gambling. Actually, the best we can do is to reach the next evolutionary level above human. That's the best you can do. But that's no fun. Yep. Yep. Okay. You got to give it up all. Think about how happy you'll be, Kissel. I won't be happy.

I could just see seeing Kissel's alien, like seeing Kissel standing amongst the ascended masters as he's just a kind of bumble around me like you guys see the Packers game. I'm sorry, it was an attachment. As an attachment to I guess. So you guys see that wrestling match and I think that Cherokee man, he hit the grave man with the chair. That's an attachment, huh? That's a 1992 reference to Tatanka and the Undertaker. That's an A for effort, my friend. It is A for effort. But according to Heaven's Gate, Earth was not a place in which to get comfortable or to stay. Earth was a test to see if you were worthy of Heaven. In other words, all this bullshit, every part of Heaven's Gate is just Christianity dressed up in aliens' clothing.

It's all the same rules. You get to the same place eventually, but it's just, you know, aliens. Okay, I mean it makes it more exciting. It's a good twist. Yeah. And if you attempt to read the book by Sawyer by the title by which that will not be named because we already devoted three minutes to that title last episode, if you look at it, it has over 800 pages of the scriptural passages, all the scripture shit that they used as literal examples of why everything they said was correct. So they used the Bible as an entire source book. It was the only thing that they were allowed essentially to read, especially by the end, where they were using it, mining for reasons why everything that they said was right. Hmm. See, the whole point

of abstaining and resisting the Luciferians was to emulate those on the next level, because after all, that was the evolutionary level above human and human attachments kept you from reaching that level. As such, members who planned on coming to the Wyoming camp in 1976 were told in advance to be prepared for a Spartan existence. The invite letter said, quote, if you are ready to go, you will need a car, a tent, a warm sleeping bag, a stove, at least two changes of winter clothing and two for warmer weather, eating and cooking utensils, and whatever money you can bring. That is literally the exact thing that everyone plans for to go to Bonnaroo. That is what every friend is like, you better bring all of that stuff. Yeah. Because Lady Gaga's performing

at midnight, but she'll be late. So we need to make sure we take the drugs right at 11.55. It takes 25 minutes for them to kick in. By the time she starts singing, I don't even know a famous Lady Gaga song. Poker face. Poker face will be blooming. This is from 1999. This is from like 25 years ago. So once members arrived, Applewhite and Nettles divided the group into what they called star clusters. Oh, I had a couple of those this morning. First group of the day. You better get those star clusters checked out. Have you gone to the thrombosis, doctor? No, I haven't in a long time. Puffin sniffs me, though, and he doesn't say bark, which means I have cancer, which means cancer-free. I was told dogs consent if you have cancer. And how do you think Puffin is going to tell you?

Bark once for no cancer. Bark for cancer. I hear him bark twice all the time. You have cancer. See? Solved it. Well, each of these star clusters was named after a different galaxy, and these groupings, the star clusters, were made up of circles of identical tents, and each grouping was supposed to mimic a spacecraft. In charge of each individual cluster were members of T&O's inner circle, whom the group called helpers. These helpers would be rotated from camp to camp to ensure that everything was as it should be, down to how everyone's camping equipment was arranged in each tent. First level of organizing the thought, it immediately pops into hierarchies. What you see, too, is that it immediately, as soon as they decide that they are the heads,

and T&O are the ones closest to the godhoods, so they're the ones that have the font of truth, and the members can only get it through T&O. Eventually, you have people that immediately sort into people that are holier than the rest of the group, that are even more connected to T&O, which means they're even more connected to the godhead, which leaves a bunch of stragglers that need to be kept in line. So even though it is gentle, by passive-aggressively saying, they should have only one pot. By passive-aggressively saying, well, this is kind of, you have two pillows, huh? Do you really feel that when we are on the spacecraft that we will need more than one pillow? But what if you roll over in your sleep? I sleep with five pillows.

I have a pillow under my head, I grip one with my arms, I have one under my butt, I have one between my knees, and there's an extra one because Wendy sometimes likes to sleep underneath that pillow behind my legs. Do you have PTSD from Vietnam? Why do you hold a pillow when you sleep? I don't know. They say that you sleep the same way that you were inside of the womb. They say that that's kind of a comfort thing you learn from being a preemie. So I wonder if I grip my mom's fucking guts. Maybe she'd just eat a baguette every morning and be like, Henry Thomas, this is for you to sleep with. Eventually, Applewhite and Nettles introduced a concept called the smooth whirlwind. Nope, nope, nope, nope. This is easily something that is infomercial at 12 a.m. to someone

who is hammered, who wants to get their life together. She's like, I haven't shat that good in five years. I finally got my first ball shaver and I shaved my balls for the first time. You talked about the ball shaver already. The Manscaper. I see it advertised now. It is weird to feel all that air, that smooth whirlwind around your balls. Very strange. You need to still wear clothes in public. Well, in the smooth whirlwind, members would rotate from cluster to cluster every day, except Friday, as a kind of getting to know you exercise. Why not Friday? Because that's the day that you got to bond to your partner on that day. Okay. Yeah, you got to get your bond with your partner smooth, but no sex. No sex, no sex. At the edge of the largest circle was

Applewhite and Nettles, who lived in a small camp trailer that everyone called central, and every star cluster was connected to central by a trail marked off by sticks and logs laid end to end. Extrapolating off this structure, the group created their own mini compound in the middle of a national forest campground. One of their little areas was a remote circle called the decontamination zone, where members would go when they were bothered by quote unquote spirits. Yep. Oh, they just took away everything fun from camping, though. Cigarettes, booze, yeah, from everything, everything, because I actually really love this idea. This is my favorite cult location so far that we've ever covered. And in a Wyoming forest, no less beautiful,

gorgeous. I'm partial to the boat. Oh, you're just crazy. Well, spirits in Heaven's Gate nomenclature were attachments to old doubts, desires, and habits or memories of friends and relatives. So if the masturbation spirit came a calling, you had to go to the decontamination zone to cool off. You could just see brothers of Browsky out there in the middle of the decamination zone, just full like, you know, my tent is pitched inside of my pants. He's gonna be going, get down, get down, come on, get down. Just like rubbing it on a rock and just saying, I'm not coming. I'm trying to scratch it. I'm trying to scratch it. No, it's just sticking in and dirt in and out, being like, I'm just trying to end it. I don't want to feel this.

But they also gave these nerdy names to just regular everyday locations. The parking lot, for example, was called the docking zone. Docking is disgusting for those that know what it is. It's very dangerous. Docking is when you put your penis inside of another man's penis. No, it's just you just do the, it's a foreskin thing, isn't it? Yeah, it's a, yes, that's exactly what I just said. That's not dangerous. No, it's the tips, touching and kissing. What's dangerous about that? I didn't say, dangerous is not, it's dick kissing. It's nothing wrong with that. It's dangerous for Monday morning when the friend that you did it with tells everyone in school,

it's going to make for a weird freshman year. Sounding is the dangerous one. Yeah. Sounding is, that's when you put the big metal, the big metal rods down your dick hole. Right. That's dangerous. It's all, you have fun. Be safe. Well, accepting jobs like collecting firewood or doing laundry, absolutely everything had to be done within these zones because all the zones were marked off by like twigs and logs and sticks and shit. You couldn't go outside of the zone unless you were given permission to go outside of the zone. So Henry, you're taking the boat. I'm going on the camping trip. I'm going to say you're an Umschenrikyo guy because you love Japan. Well, I do love Japan, but the Umschenrikyo camps were absolutely awful. Like these people said it

was a, it was a combination between a concentration camp and a canning factory. Like Umschenrikyo. Yeah, that's really bad. No dude, I'm tagging along. I'm tagging along. I'm coming on the camping trip. Yay. How are you going to be alone on a boat, Henry? I don't know. I'm going to be calling the police to get you both deprogrammed. Now they definitely got down to some weird shit in the Wyoming camp, but ultimately it all sounded comparatively benign when you compare it to some of the shit that went down with Umschenrikyo. Of course. Umschenrikyo is a literal death cult. Yeah. While the Japanese apocalyptic cult would force feed their followers cabbages and make and eat their own vomit while Shoko Asahara's daughter burned their kids with acid, Applewhite

was handing his followers tuning forks. I mean, it's just two sides of the same coin because the idea of that's what they did for fun is the saddest thing. A part of me definitely as an onlooker. Umschenrikyo would be more fun to be like, Barry, eat the cabbage. Eat the cabbage, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, bitch. Just eat this puke, fuck that. Until it's like your turn and they're like, oh shit. But Natalie and I got into, we were talking again, I've been talking rambling at her about a lot of this stuff. But again, Umschenrikyo, like Scientology, is one of those good ones if you get into management. If you get into management, it's great. And it seems like- You had to get into management.

But it does seem like Heaven's Gate, that's closed, right? T and Doe, or that's it? Heaven's Gate to me is, then it becomes, it's almost hypocritical, which is the worst sin of all. Where they, where they, they don't, they say that there is no bosses here. There is no leaders here. We are one of you. We are as classmates as you, which is all horseshit. Please. Well, members would place a vibrating tuning fork to their head, tune to the note of A, and memorize the sound so they'd have something to focus on to bring them closer to the next level while they were eating washing cars or doing laundry. But you know the irony is, the people who are camping next to them are just like, man, yeah,

we brought all this beer, but they got a bunch of acid over there. Why don't you go over there and talk to them, Henry? You're the charming one. Go get some of the acid. They're doing something fucking crazy over there because you have Bonnie Nettles going up to people. This is their television. Hitting a tuning fork on the side of a log or something, and they're going, I think I got it this time. No, it isn't really important. And they all have to sit and they're like, oh, very good, very good. And where Shoko Asahara would use shock therapy through electrode-infused shower caps to keep control, Applewhite instituted a self-imposed system of half silence called

Tomb Time. What the hell is Tomb Time? That's the show that Glenn Borland should have. This year is a tomb. This year is another tomb. We have a tomb over here. When members were in Tomb Time, they could only respond to questions with yes, no, or I don't know, although if a more complex answer was needed, the writing of notes was permitted. Now, this is what you find the most attractive, don't you talk to me? You wish that you could be in Tomb Time. Just not talking and only have a yes or no or I don't know? Sometimes, yeah. No, but not always. This would drive everyone completely insane. We're podcasters. Well, they didn't do it always. They just did it sometimes.

This is just sometimes. Yeah, because it's Tomb Time. You're in Tomb Time. Have you pitched you Carolina this? Tomb Time? Have you pitched her saying like, Carolina, we're in Tomb Time right now? If she wants to have like a really, she'd get that text being like, hey, we should talk. I have something I got to talk to you about and go, unfortunately, I'm in Tomb Time. Well, the nice thing is when Carolina proposes the divorce papers, that's a silent act. You don't have to say anything. Well, no, I can still answer questions with yes, no, or I don't know in Tomb Time. Yeah, because if she said like, I want a divorce,

I could still go, no. See? Yeah, but then she also has a big say in it. But no, she's got to get you to sign that paper. Yeah, she got to get me to sign that paper. She ain't getting rid of me. She could trick you into signing that paper in a heartbeat. Marcus, I have this. I got the shipment in here. It's his paper. It's a whole palette of shovels and monster munch. Wait, what are you writing? And don't forget the iron brew. The iron brew just showed up. Oh, yeah, there's a whole palette coming and just signed right. Your divorce! Yeah! Yeah! Who's in Tomb Time now?

No! No, I wouldn't do it because I prefer prawn cocktail over monster munch. God, that's bringing us back to our UK tour. Prawn and mayonnaise sandwiches. It's not just for people who live under the sea in Spongebob world. Well, Tomb Time, Tien Doe said, was practiced for the next level, because once everyone went up to space in the UFO, they would be able to communicate with each other just by putting their thoughts on the quote, ethers. But really, this is the cloud. I seriously stand by my claim that I think they would just like living today. I really think so. We'll see as we get to the beyond human tapes. They do jump more into these explanations.

Well, according to surviving members, though, Tomb Time was an absolutely wonderful experience. They said that while they were in Tomb Time, they would sometimes experience physical sensations which sound a hell of a lot like ASMR. I'm pissing myself. Why am I pissing myself? Usually, these sensations would come at around 3 AM, when the ships from the next level were suspected to be in the closest range to Earth. Followers said they'd hear ringing in their ears, they'd get body rushes, and they would have just a general feeling of quote, incredible energy. This, they said, was often the moment when they would begin to believe everything that Appalachian Nettles had been saying, because a lot of times they were feeling these physical

charges without the aid of drugs or anything else like that. They were thinking, oh my god, this is real. The ships are here. They're close. I'm feeling it because Appalachian Nettles told me how to feel it. I'm on the right track to the next level. Yeah, now you have the sympathetic relationship between leader and follower. They are all giving each other what they want to have everybody feel good. The leaders feel chosen and special. The followers who have nothing but an anxiety about living in the real world give up their choices to a leader that does everything for them. And then these little bits of validation make them realize, oh, they make some feel that all of this shit is working and that I am a part of a living

working system. Yeah, you should always give up all of your motivation to a Q-tip with eyes. I've always said that. Always like that. I wish the paper clip from the Microsoft thing would pop out and tell me to cut my balls off, then finally I can be released. Speaking of sounding, that's probably what he's doing now. I used to help people with WordPress, and now all I'm doing is call me inside. But I spoke with the Lucas Brothers, Kenny and Keith, great comedians. If you haven't checked them out, check out the Lucas Brothers. They have been sober for almost a year, and they were saying, like, no, we know anything. They were saying that you can kind of make yourself trip. The breathing. I don't know how it works. I never tried. It's a breathing thing. Yeah.

The closest that I ever got to it was when I did the sensory deprivation tank, and I got into it. And there's something about being so bored that your brain create, it's like, I don't know how to describe it. It was like I shot down a tunnel, like I saw all sorts of shit. And then for a while, I was wondering if this is just like edible nuggets that are still in my gut, like just getting consumed like while I'm sitting in there. But then you wonder, if you take away all stimulation, because these people led, let's make no bones about it. This is some of the most bone-grindingly boring lives that you can possibly imagine. The goal was to sit and do nothing. They wanted to get to total oneness with their boredom. So they would sit and do, in the in-tomb time, they would be

staring into the sky, like laying in dirt, staring at the sky for hours. And in a way, it does. It sheds all this other detritus, all the other noise coming in, and then your brain starts kind of doing things for you. That's the way our consciousness works for some reason. And then a group of kids from FSU come and spray you with the keg hose, and they're like, Wake up, you losers! We're partying! We talked to a bartender in New Orleans that was attached to French Quarter, the bar that was attached to French Quarter Phantoms. And he said that he does this breathing exercise that actually can get him close to the feeling of MDMA. Okay. He can actually trip through breathing, which I'd like to know more about that.

Sure, I did. Yeah, man, I'll trip balls right fucking out, just being winded on the elliptical. Well, because these people were getting these tiny validations, Applewhite and Nettles were more easily able to sell the whole fucking program. And the idea was that the more you pretended to be on a spacecraft, the easier it would be to transition to life on a spacecraft. Because even though it was a boring life, it was still in service to the future life on a spaceship, on its way to heaven. You're still, you're pretending the whole time. You're pretending I'm on a spaceship. You're pretending I'm hanging out with space aliens. And you're having a pretty good time in your mind. In your mind! Henry, again, dude, go get the acid that they're taking over

there! These fucking guys are having a killer ass time. They just called the trash can a waste tool unit. That's fucking cool, man. It's weird, right? I don't know, because there's a part of me that does understand that lifestyle. You see, again, where I think we're dog meat and I part ways where it's like, you're cool with the idea of the sort of spiritual exercise, where what other cults, Omshin Rikio and Scientology specifically, they gave you all the props. They gave you all the stuff, right? Where it's like, you know, Scientology has like the stupid emeter and has the uniforms. It has all these like, it has things that you can touch that look sci-fi, that help those of us that are not willing to give up my boner, like to get more into this sci-fi lifestyle, where they

want, they're going the total crunchy way, which is, again, they're playing for the afterlife. It's super, super Christian. It gets all, it gets rid of all the sci-fi and you're not living a fun life now so that you can fucking trip on the stars later. We haven't really mentioned this yet, but any music, is there any music involved here? Shit, I don't think so. Well, no, actually there is quite a bit of singing from Applewhite, I think. From Applewhite. Well, I mean, their names are music based, Doe and Tee, Doe, a dear, a female dear. Is it just that song over and over and over again? Bonnie Nettles' favorite album, quote unquote album, was the sound of music soundtrack. That was her favorite thing on the face of the planet. Okay. So it's just her just being like,

I like the end part when the Nazis got her. It's like she was very excited. All right. As we said, what came to be known as Heaven's Gate was essentially just Christianity by way of chariots of the gods. But when it came to the day-to-day activities of the cult, Applewhite and Nettles ripped directly from science fiction. But where Om Shemrikyo took from Isaac Asimov's dystopian novel The Foundation, Heaven's Gate chose a specifically utopian model. Heaven's Gate were about the biggest Star Trek nerds you could find. This is again where I fucking love him. Honestly, he looks, he does have a Picard look. He does. And Picard now has his own television show again. It's pretty good. Marshall would love this time, this time era. Star Trek definitely

emboldened the use of silly haircuts. It did. To promote smartness. In an attempt to recruit more Trekkies, Heaven's Gate distributed posters that specifically transposed the biblical story of Jesus Christ into certain concepts and hierarchies that were present in Star Trek. They said that Jesus was essentially the captain who led an away team to Earth 2,000 years ago, and their mission was to help mankind overcome their humanness so they could enter the true kingdom of God, i.e. the United Federation of Planets. But all of this stuff that they're basing their religion on is made by heathens. It's made by Luciferians. The people who made Star Trek weren't sober. You know they were chain smoking in those rooms. You know on some level

they thought that Gene Roddenberry was touched by the oneness. And they were like all his other stuff is bad, yes it's bad. But Star Trek is kind of on the money. They love sci-fi. Like anything they had to do with sci-fi they absolutely loved. Like they considered it a part of the overall canvas that was Heaven's Gate. Alright. Things also got more severe as they went. So they started way more, this was all thought exercises. Again this is while T is alive. So while she is alive and with them it's way more kind of because they were really happy in their own little shitty way. Right. Where dough and tea were a bonded couple. They loved each other very very dearly. And they kind of lived and held sway over this group of nerds in the forest for

a while. And it seemed to really work out because at this time period it was nice. And they could talk friendly about Star Trek. And they could add all of these sort of pop culture references into what they're doing. Because right now this is all just thought exercises. But they kept, they stayed Star Trek fans throughout. Like at the end they were huge Deep Space Nine fans. One Comic-Con springing up in Utah. One in Wyoming. Could have saved all of these people. And six Winkies. Actually that was the most shocking thing to Carolina about this whole situation was she was shocked that they killed themselves before the Deep Space Nine series finale. She's like they didn't find out how it ended. They didn't find out what happened to Captain

Cisco. Are they true fans? I don't want some level. They're like I'm certain that the next level will understand. And some of our older members will have taped it. And they loved X-Files too. Like X-Files because it was all about aliens. They believed it was closer to like next level thinking. So yeah they loved X-Files. Loved Stargate. Stargate was a big big thing for them as well. It's interesting to have that connection because those were still kind of niche. But I mean X-Files was mainstream. Star Wars was still a little bit more niche. But there were still millions of people that loved it. Yeah. Wow. Trickies ain't niche. Yep. Well 2000 years ago Jesus's mission kind of sort of took. But the mission was still incomplete. So the away team

returned to Earth in the 1970s and settled into the mature adult bodies of Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles. But this time the Admiral aka God had come along with the Captain and his crew. This idea was taken from the Star Trek movies where Kirk was Admiral and Spock was the Captain. Specifically they swiped from Star Trek IV the voyage home. Yeah. Which involved the crew of the Enterprise traveling back in time to save the whales after a space probe evaporated all the oceans in the 24th century. But they also came back saying like hey you got to be nice to the whales. You got to make sure everything's go to the environment here and so on and so forth. So that's what they kind of transposed. I remember that one. Doesn't that specifically

fuck with the Prime Directive as always. Well that's the thing. They also transposed the Prime Directive. Prime Directive being when members of Starfleet were not allowed to interfere with developing cultures. Because when it came to Heaven's Gate they eventually decided that they could not interfere with the spiritual development of other humans. That violated the Prime Directive. Well it also was because every single time they showed up and tried to explain that this googly-eyed asshole and this other woman were the channeling the God head and everyone rolled their eyes so hard they fucking fell out of their head. And once they received enough of those rejections then it finally came into being like we're not supposed to

convert them. Right. I remember that one though Leonard Nimoy RIP right. Yeah actually Leonard Nimoy directed. He did. Yeah he directed Star Trek 4. Well then he I sat next to him once in a movie theater. You did. Yep I saw Inception with Leonard Nimoy. Whoa. He sat two seats away for me and he coughed. He was really bad the whole time. He was really sick. Those are just some amazing Hollywood stories. You gotta write a book. Just a little peep into my world. Well to the followers of Applewhite and Nettles life on Earth was pretty much the same as being on a holodeck. But even though everything on Earth was indeed real it was ultimately just a training ground for what was to come ahead. When it came to day to day life the group also used

science fiction terminology. Bedrooms were rest chambers. Kitchens were neutra labs. Laundry rooms were fiber labs. And offices were compu labs. Hey guys you might want to give some room to these poo poo labs. I just took a download of some samples. Whoa mama. It's just more difficult names for things that are very easy to explain. But it gets you in the mood for being on a spaceship. I mean I love calling the kitchen a neutra lab. Sure. I mean it's also a brainwashing technique that they use to slowly but surely slide you out of the real world so you create a whole new vocabulary for people. But up to a point it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Okay. Now I'm getting. I was scared of Henry's brain. But I think he's actually doing pretty

well. I think he loves L. Ron Hubbard. He's starting to post pictures of him on his Instagram. I have no created a meme. I you created a meme that that did not go viral. You were just posting video images. But I appreciate again him as a businessman. I like the way he viewed his work. I think that he's a he's a funny little figure and I love his body. And I think that he set up a right program and then technically you know people people adulterated his vision. Right. So you're allowed to hold all of that because we just have to sort of ping pong you know have a little good time. Marcus if we lose you. Uh-huh. Everything falls apart. Oh yeah. So I know I've already described him. I've already said this to Jackie. I've said this to Natalie. I've said this

to Marcus already. If Marcus ever shows up after years of not seeing him with a fucking bowl cut talking about he met this guy that is the true one. It's like I get you're an adult and you have your civil liberties and I feel like it's going to make it's going to rub people along the wrong way in many ways. But I'm gonna fucking put you an insane asylum. Yeah. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna have you put against your will in a room for a little while and let it see if it passes. I'm just gonna give that a shot first before letting you go and just kind of see with all the drugs and the various people talking to you and me showing up with records being like you miss records. But what if I'm super happy. No no you won't be. We also can't you can't be too happy.

Yeah you can't be too happy. No that's actually the it's the blissful eyes of the of the new recruits. So you're gonna put me in an insane asylum because you find me annoying and happy and happy. But you're you're annoyed that I'm happy. Yes. No we're concerned for how happy you are. Yeah well fine. Happiness is the destination. This is about the journey. Hey what's up everyone how you doing Ben Kissel here with Katie Dirks. Let you know about kind of fun. It's the LPN wrestling podcast and dare I say it's kind of fun bringing you all the news you need to know about wrestling to keep you up to date. Yeah we cover all sorts of news from across the wrestling industry. Keep you updated. All the hot goss all the fun stuff. Everything you need to know. So check out

kind of fun on the LPN network. It's kind of fun. Brother Reed from the story must be told here and without any context whatsoever here's a piece of an episode called ghosts are hazy life. Grooter rode in the passenger seat of Sylvie's Corolla like a sick dog. He slid on the seat at every stoplight and twice got so scared he kicked the dash scuffing the glove compartment with his dirty white orthopedics. He wouldn't tell her where they were going and she wondered if he actually knew. He blurted each direction the moment it was needed. Right and here and stop! Grooter squealed like he was ready to throw up. Sylvie skidded to a stop on the shoulder of a busy freeway. At once Grooter opened the door ripped off his seat belt and ran into traffic.

Uncle Grooter! Sylvie cried. Cars honked each howling blur. Yet when she looked Grooter was already across waiting for her at the door of the Bethlehem Retirement Community. Well in Heaven's Gate homes or tents were called crafts and anything done out of a dwelling was called a quote out of craft task. Now of course if they were going to emulate Starfleet it was only logical that they would create their own uniforms. Okay this is like I feel like it's the episode of The Simpsons where Lisa cracks the bully like the enzymes that make someone want to bully someone and I just want to go there and scream at these people and I don't know why I feel this way. It's fine I don't know why you guys have such an intense reaction to these to

nerds because they're not. You guys have an intense reaction to nerds that's what it is. It's not normal. It's not normal. I feel like you care. You know what it was? The truth is when we get into next episode is that I think that we had sort of diametrically opposed reactions to the faces of the members of Heaven's Gate because when I look at them yes I do feel sadness I do feel a great deal of sadness watching their reactions and seeing these people give up everything for Marshall Applewhite who is one of the most insufferable nerds who's ever like he is an insufferable person to listen drone for hours and hours and he and he talks in nonsense and horseshit everybody they all look drawn and thin we'll talk about I want to get deeper into this next week but

I feel very badly for these people and I do wish someone came and scooped them. I know you listened to about seven hours I listened to about 45 minutes of Applewhite. I thought he was kind of funny because he does inject like little jokes that kind of get lost. Imagine a life of it. He's not my least favorite. Back in the Wyoming camp the uniform policy was closer to address code initially members said they wore uniforms quote to make the laundry easier that okay that makes sense what's his name uh Steven that's a Steve Jobs did Steve Jobs all black all the time mostly just wore nylon windbreakers gloves in the winter and then pants cool they got the old Tonya Harding bodyguard collection from Walmart it looks great love it but every once in a while the members

would get weird with it by wearing hoods with cloth mesh eyes oh these hoods serve two purposes one it took away their humanity like when someone puts on like a gimp suit during sex they're no longer a human oh they're now an object their manhood is definitely mine and two it made tomb time a little easier because there's a tomb notice the tomb over there because if you can't see someone else's face then you're less likely to interact with them it isolates you and it worked perfectly ultimately what wearing the uniform and using the terminology accomplished was a feeling that everyone was closer to the next level essentially playing pretend so no one would have to deal with modern society they're just dropping out the pretending like they're on a spaceship

who gives a shit what anybody else is doing we're focused on the here and now they missed some kick-ass stuff from the 90s well no this is 1976 oh they're missing even more kick-ass stuff then yeah this is just the beginning of this yeah they didn't go living in isolation doing this just them so we are wrong while that's actually great to clarify so we are 20 over 20 years out yeah from the final what i'm gonna call winky gate we're 21 years out damn from the final winky gate yeah oh okay now all of these activities were referred to were referred to by tea and dough as games because all of it was meant to be challenging and fun it was just challenging and fun are you trying to make me learn because i have been mavis beacon typing i have been on the

tip all of them you have been such a i could just see the the big face of ventcastle all of these michelle pfeiffer like teachers from dangerous minds all trying to reach you and you just go nope no don't like it oh this there's numbers in a spaceship i don't give a shit don't care you're in that i don't care what is this but this is a menu for a restaurant nope get it out of here i want to see how i'm not reading these books i remember playing video games and halfway through would be like this is educational not fun i was fucking sick at mavis beacon oh shit i was sick the sentences never want made any sense and during this time period they would also play these kind of message games where he would go and he would hide he would literally go and hide and

say you got to find us when they would move various camps right they would end up moving camps and what you do is lay out clues for them to find okay some people that conjecture that marshal appellate had some sort of code breaking training while in the military which i don't know is true or not i have no clue he did he served in the military like very briefly okay yes and so i don't know but i the these were types of thing but again these games this is a way to shift it away from we are we are stripping you of your personality we're bringing you in deeper right because this is challenging and fun listen to the tuning fork but it was all like comparatively light-hearted because unlike other cults nobody ever really got punished

in heaven's gate nobody was being imprisoned in underground isolation boxes like they were in jones town and nobody was being cooked to death and gigantic fucking microwaves like they were in ome shenrikyo that's great yeah you remember that i do yeah oh yeah dude yeah they cook them in the microwave the body would crumple up and then they would fucking then they would dump the body in acid and they flush the whole thing down the toilet that wasn't happening with marshal apple it's not right creates a lack of discipline and it seems like they're their followers maybe it's because there's not many of them they do seem to be into it right there's no one they're all no one's standing up and be like not today do never okay no marshal apple white marshal

apple white and body nettles the idea is very specifically pick these people they very specifically the you had to choose them that's a part of the their their line is being like oh we ask is that people humbly come and ask us for the truth mm-hmm yeah in heaven's gate like the most people got was a shake of the head and a tisk tisk like mm shouldn't be shouldn't be doing that shredding the carrot but that's not to say apple white and what the fuck is shredding what is that even me oh yeah yeah yeah sure yeah you're just saying that you're showing us but you're just saying it's when you take your finger and you take your other finger one finger symbolizes the carrot the other finger symbolizes the shredder yeah shredding the carrot never visualize it now i can i'm watching you

do it and it's kind of weird to see you do that i see you do that in a big nuns outfit for some that's not to say apple white nettles didn't create a difficult regiment they actually had a procedure for every conscious moment of life from cooking and eating to bathing and sleeping they wrote a list of guidelines called the seventeen steps which provided behavioral rules that would help one overcome the human condition it forbade among other things inconsiderate conversation clumsiness procrastination oversensitivity rudeness defensiveness and over familiarity this is an introverts dictatorship it really is and it's very unfortunate that they don't allow clumsiness because i think mr bean would have been a prime heavensgate member yeah because

all he does is make those weird little noises and he had that teddy bear thing and it's just him just getting a weird shenanigans going it would have loved him great at tomb time mr beads my favorite whistler's mother remember that when he messed up the painting it was the movie yeah the movie and then when he had his gun but it was just his hand and the guy's like put the gun down let me put his hand down in the shape of a gun oh wow what a great classic it is a classic well the steps also forbade members from quote using more of something than is adequate like too high of a cooking flame or using too much toothpaste although those rules were more practical than anything because they were all broke as fuck they had no money so building off the 17 steps apple white

and nettles instituted a game to exert further control over their followers every moment of existence this game was called the docket during the docket a loud beep would go off in the camp every 12 minutes and when the beep sounded different pairs of partners would report to what they called the service desk which is what everyone called the awning that hung over tea and dough's camping trailer this is yep yeah okay imagine just scurrying the beep and then everyone has to scurry and then you got bonnie clipping her toenails out there be like you're gonna want to save these for the composting thank you another toenail bushes grow well once they reported members would step up to a platform and silently ask the next level what they could do to

serve but they wouldn't get an answer from the next level they'd get an answer from apple white and nettles but it's just as good it's just as good as an answer for the next level marcus but it's just fucking chores yep i mean they'd get this like yeah go gather some firewood or wash someone's car but and if there was nothing pressing to do they just say like i just go back to your day you're good they're just having fun with it that doesn't sound like having fun with it they're kind of having fun with the chores yeah but it teaches you to register to beeps number one which makes you a dog yeah definitely number two this is the exact mentality of every internet startup that had with interns for years that they love the opportunity to talk to the godhead this

is all about a fresh new fun opportunity for these guys to clean out garbage cans for the captain and the admiral i think going forward when it comes to cults let's find a middle ground between children of god and heaven's gate you're talking about a business let's just cover casco let's just talk about casco where it came from how did it become the largest store but even though all this is comparatively carefree when compared to other cults who ended with a gigantic pile of bodies apowite nettles operated on a level of paranoia that rivaled even jim jones although apowite never really reached jonesian levels just push back a little bit it doesn't seem like carefree doesn't it's not highly highly care what's the opposite of free in this term that is why i i i

this is this is my main thing with them is that it seems all of this stuff is fairly innocent right i'm and i get on one level it sort of is well comparatively of course yeah i said yes yes then especially then jonestown but you know that that's kind of what the idea here is right we're playing on people that are uh deeply lacking in something they're all missing something that they're getting out of the cult leader they're they are in this environment for a reason so all of this stuff is highly highly charged even though it's all simple because they believe with each action they do they're getting closer to living on a spaceship and if all of this just planned if all of this just panned out to them owning a gem store or or them like creating

a like a line of clothes or like them doing something that is that it wasn't a mass suicide i'd say yes all of this is fairly carefree but in the end a bunch of people committed suicide because of this garbage 39 it's interesting it doesn't seem that nefarious but yeah it's a good point well there should have been that way there should have been a cutoff point it was pretty much like as soon oh there was a cutoff point oh gosh have you thought of writing for jimmy kimmel they said i'm too edgy i go there you go there i set my package that says be warned i go there well the group was highly sensitive to others seeing them in their space outfits that is one way of saying let's avoid getting wedgies today highly sensitive to be seen in

their space outfits is the sweetest way to say we gotta look out we gotta look out for bullies i'm sick of being bullied that happened to me when i was walking wendy three nine-year-olds made fun of me for having a tiny dog and if i just have a tiny dog they should have loved the tiny dog i can't imagine the amount of bullshit you receive if you're wearing a the nerdiest version of a Ku Klux Klan so they posted centuries in the hills to watch for hikers or cars accidentally driving up to their site and if anyone came everyone would take off their hoods and pretend like they were just a bible study group honestly if you have to change when people see you you're doing something wrong no i well yes in some ways in some ways not in every way have pride

have pride have pride yeah in your fucking costume so you want you want them to be like who cooks klan's men then if you really believe that you are in touch with the ones that have the only truth you should be proud to show and flaunt it i agree well apple white nettles even had members practice tearing down the camp in case of a bug out scenario and they eventually practiced it enough where the whole thing would be packed into cars in less than 15 minutes now as far as we know this was only put into practice twice once a member took a car without permission and drove to larry me whoa while the other time a member wrote a secret letter to his family both of which being a far cry for murdering a fucking congressman like jim jones ordered

it was just writing a letter and going to town so they packed it up they packed everything up packed everything up like we gotta get the fuck out of here right now oh my god well they better keep it packed up because the osu college wrestling squad is showing up they are done with their season and they are ready to party all right all right i got right here let me give this star trek hat and give it to my bloodhound so they go all right go root out them nerds go get them the thing was nothing nefarious was happening here they weren't stockpiling guns or sexually abusing anyone or committing even the slightest bit of violence towards each other they were just weird nerds okay that's all that was going on right now they are okay at this at this point they were just

weird nerds now i agree that it did definitely go to a place that it shouldn't have gone i'm not in the suicide was great i think we might have to i think we might have to give the lead research role to henry this i think i think the jury pool has been polluted he's been he has been compromised i have not been compromised i have absolutely not been compromised there is a point where it turns and i will point out that event okay because right now i am describing 80 people stuck in the woods no contact with the outside world at the do everything at the behest of a bald man and a woman who may sound like a talking goat there is something going on nefarious here anytime you write a letter to your parents in the entire camp that you're with freaks out

that's a bad sign huh yeah but even though they did have their own little starfleet society going they still had to eat when the coffers reached zero as they did time and again t and o instructed members to go out and get menial jobs to make a little cash the only requirement was that the work had to be menial because permanent employment sometimes encouraged an attachment to a career which was a lesson t and o quickly learned few times people went out got jobs and found that life among luciferians not so bad not so bad and so they just didn't come back no because they can actually watch star trek on a television on a television instead of being described the episodes by our the bowl-cutted leader i you guys both work these types of jobs i will say that there's

it's kind of fun when you work in a fast food place or kind of a menial retail place there is sort of a loose kind of bonding that's created amongst the misfits that have to work at these places so you can kind of see how an under sexed lady who's kind of spacey-eyed who shows up to work at the burger king right you can very quickly move very high into the the sexual hierarchy of a fast food restaurant very easily and all of a sudden you're you're hot to try when you're on the fryer later and you and you aren't a total carnivorous beast people want at you oh you start to feel that attention a little bit oh yeah there was absolutely a sexual hierarchy at joe's crab shack well i was never one i was never one of the wanted ones i was big and i was again

fired for eating too much food but hey let me let me work the register because they literally told me the customers would be scared but you know for a fact if one busty 40 year old woman who is on the run from abusive husband like ended up there you guys would have had like an unease that would have started being like questioning no and it would have blossomed him some kind of relationship no would turn into a lifetime movie that happened and she used to say i'm going to go wash the dishes she said wash instead of wash which i'll never understand how the r snuck in there she had sex with our manager huh not me so that literally that exact situation happened and i did not get the divorce say she but you butted her up for the manager and she had her eyes in

the press well apple white and nettles had a way of keeping control over their followers even when they were out there working these menial jobs every 12 minutes they were supposed to look at the clock and mentally ask the next level how can i be of service uh well you can start by pumping the gas of the person who is at the gas station here in new jersey oh that's not the next level that's my manager tam well dough and tea did allow members to watch television they plug the television into a car cigarette lighter in the camp and they all sat around because how the fuck else are gonna watch star trek in space 1999 and battlestar galactica it's like it's like living in prison but with a bunch of trees around but besides their diet of tv sci-fi members were

also required to watch just regular shows so they could observe human behavior the only restriction was that they could not watch family oriented shows like little house on the prairie because little house on the prairie quote vibrated on the human level and it might make you think of your mom yeah or your dad or your brothers your sisters and the fact that you left all them and now you're watching a tiny television that's plugged into a cigarette lighter hole in a car it was surrounded by a bunch of stinky people and it and you're not yet in space i do love that the 70s that we're making cars they're like how strong should we make this cigarette lighter oh man people love cigarettes make it strong enough to power a large television because my uncle steve smokes three packs

just on the way to church now what i read again and again about heaven's gate during the mid 70s was that even though these people were committed they were also constantly plagued with doubts as to whether or not they were doing the right thing some were a little more vocal with those doubts though and those also happened to be the people who were not quite as committed to the process as the others were so near the end of 1976 apple white and nettles singled out 19 of the least committed members uh-oh but instead of just telling them that they were no longer a part of the group apple white told them to go to phoenix get jobs and await further instructions now he did keep in contact with them for a few weeks but eventually he just ghosted all of them and without apple

white's hands on discipline the group just fell apart and they all just went their separate ways passive aggressive bullshit they are the luckiest members though yeah it's true it's true but i mean again it's almost refreshing having the having the the fucking having the hose spankings at least you feel the want yeah i feel it the hose spankings he's talking again he wants to be on a carnival cruise ship from hell that is what henry's dream is but the interesting thing about all of this is that like almost every other cult most members who left refused to say a bad word about the leaders themselves in fact no one left because they were disillusioned the 19 who were kicked out had to actually be manipulated into leaving because nobody really wanted to go huh you see a lot of

these people who later participated in the suicide said that they were hooked from day one and it actually made a lot of sense that these people in particular were looking for something stable because a lot of them were coming from the failure that was the 60s counterculture these people had offered peace and love and the world had rejected it and i'd imagine all a lot of them wanted to do was crawl into a fucking hole and not deal with it which was exactly what apple white and nettles were offering plus for some of them i'm sure removing even the possibility of sex from their lives was a relief because the free love movement had hurt a lot of people and a lot of the folks who shouldn't have been a part of that scene found themselves participating in it whether they

wanted to or not that is why i will say this and i always have said it charge for love charge for love you get something in monetary gain i believe in the transactional nature of sex sometimes it needs to be stated up front but once you get it handled it actually really works i think that it's it's also a lot of the again you know marshal apple white and nettles really saw the people that were truly affected by this and it was because free love was kind of the style of the time yeah right there was this idea that we were also supposed to buy into this breaking down of labels which i do appreciate i do understand why but there are people that are not equipped for that and i think especially if you are maybe towards the asexual edge or you are you are confused

about it or you or you want monogamy or you want these other things you want and and during the sign period it was it was not very stylish to believe in these things so you are kind of pulled this whole world of bullshit and it kind of makes a perfect ground to find somebody who's specifically saying no sex here yeah there's absolutely none there absolutely there's none so you come and join you're not going to get hurt here essentially like you're not going to get hurt you're not going to have to deal with any of that bullshit because it is all forbidden and also you get to go to space on a spaceship like that last part's pretty fun that's the fun part i see i mean with some exceptions like the late 60s was a highly fucking selfish period of time in america

because a lot of the people we now know as boomers were only concerned with themselves and what they wanted because remember the original name of that generation was the me generation that's what it was all about me what i want except for the boomers that buy our vip tickets we really enjoy them we love them now this is purely speculation on my part but i'd imagine that quite a few heavens gate members got a big nasty taste of boomer-fuck shenanigans and not having to deal with it ever again was actually a feature of heavens gate not a buck well when you watch when you listen to him talk these the sex stuff is obviously some of the most important parts of this entire group was the lack of sex specifically the lack of trying to destroy even the bottom of sexual

thought like the idea of desire they were trying to get rid of and i think that it does have societal reasons and then i think it also that's why it attracted a very specific member because it was people that were either hurt in the past or people that are i mean they couldn't make it work yeah they couldn't make relationships work yeah they couldn't fit they and it's not that they not either for lack of trying or or there was some kind of anxiety or some fear and then this just was another way of uh it's an anxiety reliever because now the option's taken from me i don't have to worry about relating to people on this other way because me because it's difficult for me and now i don't have to anymore right so when tian dough closed up the campsite in wyoming 69 members remained in

the group for the next two years the group stayed at different campsites in the rocky mountains and eventually made their way back to texas but during this time they were essentially nomadic as we said last episode apple white nettles had been making headlines since the 70s and their profile eventually got high enough where abc developed a pilot in 1979 based on their lives called the mysterious two as we know getting a tv show made is exceedingly difficult well especially back then i think there was only three channels the whole thing got put on hold but in 1982 that pilot morphed into a tv movie which actually got made and was aired on national television so they allowed themselves to be interviewed by hollywood producers and to be put on television someone stole their story

someone's read about it in a newspaper article stole it wrote up wrote a pilot about it maybe maybe this movie directed by gary sherman who did a fantastic donald pleasant's movie called raw meat did you ever see raw meat i did see raw meat i love it it's fucking great that's the same director it also had uh priscilla pointer who played the mom and blue velvet and a very young pre nightmare on elm street robert england no kidding yeah yeah i gotta see this i'd actually do knows on youtube i'm gonna watch it before next week's episode yeah i didn't have time to watch the movie but from what the synopsis tells us the story is of two aliens who come to earth to start a cult that promises their followers a trip to space on their ufo and it's rumored the apple

white and nettles help to at least construct the story which makes this movie the first widely disseminated piece of cult media produced in modern times yeah interesting i mean i guess you could maybe count cease to exist the beach boys song that was based on charles mansons never learn not to love again or wait never learn not to love again was based on cease to exist you could count that a whole series of things and again check out marcus's new music podcast no dogs in space yeah honestly uh quick quick side note thank you all so much for the amazing response to no dogs in space thank you it's been overwhelming it's unbelievable and that makes marcus feels good it makes marcus feels good me and carol and it feels so good thank you all so much for listening

it's been a fucking great response absolutely but strangely this tv movie was not an attempt to gain more followers in fact by the late 70s recruitment efforts had stopped altogether and followers were starting to fall away one by one the ones who stayed though were about to enter an entirely new level of sci-fi weirdness and the next logical step when it comes to a cult cult everybody was about to get new names whoa cool starting in april of 1977 applewhite and nettles told everyone to drop their human names and give themselves new ones okay now everyone was sort of allowed to choose their own or have others choose it for them i want to be the thunder gull you can be thunder gull nope you had to choose it within strict cult guidelines oh man come on

thunder gull everyone was allowed a three-letter single syllable followed by the suffix odie in applewhite's world odie was a suffix that meant child of god odie was a contraction of the words of god while the y was added to make it friendly like callin jim jimmy or if i called you benny i hate it i hate it sounds like i've been in prison for stealing a bunch of olives yeah yeah if the olive heist of 2021 was very very well documented everyone will see of course but he also does the same thing with lucifer he calls him olusi he says it again and again and again and again and again and again it's not cute right cute about it you watched too much beyond heaven it poisoned your well no it did not poison my well it showed me that this is all

fucking absolute horseship no no i think it's possibly true we haven't gotten to the end of the story and my understanding is there's six loose ding dogs on a spaceship right now and they are just like we made it we made it well as far as the three syllables went it was usually a shortening of the member's given name or it was related to a personal trait of the member for example a particularly tall member was called tall odie that's you right no no it's more like a or a particularly drunk member i would be his name he drew odie and that would be this guy over here look at him i'm gonna kill i'm gonna kill you all no no i'm being serious the guy was called tallot no i believe you i was not making fun of you no i'm stating the point we never made fun of

you once we just said things we just said this yeah just said things another member who was new called himself neody well another who had a thirst for knowledge was called thirst odie uh interesting oh henry i got your name right here it's called balodi because you're baloded and smell like baloney you're balodi yeah what is this jeff ross's colt look you take the roast anymore guys i gotta go back to normal life the point of this apple white said was to bring you closer to the next level while disassociating yourself from your family tree hmm but everything changed for apple white and nettles in the early 80s two members of the group received inheritances totaling somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 000 she's this fucking christ and they both

turned into the wb frog just like kicking and dancing so excited and for the first time the group was able to rent actual homes oh why why are so many people in these types of colts inherit get huge inheritances i was always hoped when i was super broke that some weird member of my family would die and i would just get money but why does it happen to them why do they get the lucky roll of the dice well because the ones it doesn't happen to you never hear about yeah that's true 300k that's honestly probably like 1.5 million by today's cash it's a lot of cash it's a lot of cash and it took them a long way cool well their first craft as they called every dwelling they ever lived in was in Denver here everyone's routine was prescribed to the absolute minute

luckily though one woman who left in 1981 actually kept a written record of her daily schedule so we can take a peek into what it was like inside a heavensgate house oh i'm excited her first of four daily rest periods began at exactly 3 37 p.m and ended exactly two hours later at 5 57 p.m she took a bath 24 minutes after that she took a vitamin pill which was only one of 32 vitamins she had to take in one 24 hour period at 6 36 p.m she drank a liquid protein formula and an hour later she ate a cinnamon roll then by 9 54 p.m she went to bed for exactly two hours then woke up again to do even more tasks and this was done every single day well they do this on purpose you chunk up somebody's sleep time and it makes them exhausted yeah makes it so that they

can't even think about breaking out of a schedule that has been handed to them so this is their every minute was scheduled what happens what happens if you have like anything outside of a normal let's say you got a case of the runs and they make exceptions for the get for the runs okay so you can like yeah they don't want you shitting all over the house i don't know what they want what it also shows though is stuff when tinky things happen like that what a fun thing that i imagine happens is that that shows that you haven't been doing the work and that you now uh when your body reacts badly to these things sometimes especially in transition it shows that you have more work to do quote unquote to get to release this vehicle this is where the weird inner punishments

would start because every single thing was a reflection on whether or not they were getting closer to the sexless vehicle or the whatever their their perfect being shell was supposed to be because aliens don't get diarrhea yeah you want if you want to get this vehicle to heaven i think i got it right here i'm halfway to bars baby well i don't i don't think that's true because like watching the uh the exit videos and how these people interacted with each other they were very caring and loving to one another like this was a tight knit group and i don't think they would have made each other feel bad for having diarrhea the well we've gotten way off topic here talking about diarrhea that's my fault and i'm sorry you did this i'm sorry but no but it brings up a point

i think that they had their own camaraderie and then it was different when it came to the teacher i think the teachers were always separate from the rest of them if you were looking at the beyond human stuff you watch him speak to them and they sit like little rabbits at his feet henry you have not been listening they have no camaraderie that's not allowed well this woman who wrote this list when she wasn't focused on a specific task she would cook which they called fuel preparation she'd study astrology or do brain exercises like jigsaw puzzles or something similar i never it's literally just marcus and carolina's life i know no that's just what they like to do knowing that this is marcus's favorite cult it's kind of like i'm looking through the lens of also

judging him like this is why that's why he's slowly getting mad because as we pick if we pick on it like you see i'm not trying to roast your behavior marcus you're allowed oh yeah do whatever you want we are perfectly comfortable with the lives we live jigsaw puzzles are great no yeah i love them well this woman never ever left the house and only knew what the weather was like by looking through a skylight because all the windows in the house were constantly covered she said this routine best as she could guess lasted six months she's agoraphobic well she's not agoraphobic you don't think so no no no i don't she covered all of her windows she didn't cover all of her windows the cult covered the windows is this isolate you this is very bad but she was in the house with other people it wasn't

just she wasn't doing this stuff of her own volition it was other people telling her to do this honestly she didn't have her own volition the it's coming from within the house this is you are really whitewash you know so they they covered all of the windows yes this is don't yeah no i said yeah the windows were constantly i'm not saying any of this is normal i'm just what the only point that i'm making here you didn't say like oh this is where it gets weird you were just somebody covered the windows they played jigsaw puzzles you like somebody is about to join me on the podium at the slippery slope olympics i think marcus is looking at a bronze no my whole point of this is that it's not i'm not going to join this i could never do this no you can't anymore i could never

ever i would not have the discipline to do any of this nor would i really want to do this no i've seen that thing you're packing you don't want to you just said the word discipline like it's a thing that it's good you said the word discipline like you wish you had the rigor no i don't i just don't have the discipline to do this but my point is that these people made a choice like this is a choice at every point this is a choice we cannot take away these people's agency and put it all on marshal apple white of like oh this is all marshal apple white doing this is all marshal apple whites manipulation these people up until a certain point are making a choice uh to to participate in this life okay it's a vicious cycle yes i would put as far as what heavens gate eight

they tried just about every diet known to man but all of them always ate exactly the same thing and the diet was constantly changing this they said was to break their attachment to food so they could look at it as pure fuel and this i actually kind of get there's a lot that you get i'm not even going to talk about it it's very food is a wonderful thing it brings people together it gives you life it's a great line through cultures it's annoying it's not annoying marcus you need food the food is a wonderful thing i know i need he does eat but i gotta eat it like three times a day i'm hungry right now and i don't want to be dog meat and i broke it down yesterday dog meat does he does describe more and and and puts more of a values kind of qualification on a monastic lifestyle

than somebody like me i'm a bacchanalium right i like i believe in the pleasures of the flesh that is why i leave i lean towards the idea that's why i'm a satanist because i believe in the idea of i all of the things that are good i want it now i don't want in the afterlife i fucked the afterlife because the afterlife doesn't exist where i believe marcus does adhere closely closer to the idea that this lifestyle like a more sparse lifestyle a more pure lifestyle helps your brain be uncluttered okay henry you're going to help marcus i don't know where you're gonna end up this is about eating food i need you to just enjoy it it's nice it brings you together learn different cultures through food no i i enjoy food i just you know i wish i could

just sort of enjoy food when i want to enjoy food not enjoy food when my body tells me i have to eat food you're an insane person well that was great sometimes the diet would be vegetarian sometimes it would be fruitarian and sometimes they would do water or juice fast and when they needed to quote unquote cleanse they would drink a concoction of cayenne peppers coupled with enemas oh gotta get it out wait to get it out oh is the cayenne pepper in the enema no they're drinking no oh god they're not doing the hot seat they're not doing hot seat it's very that's a very it's the la term for cayenne pepper enema the old hot seat they did the very standard it's water it's water with cayenne pepper and maple syrup in it that they they drink every morning that it's

like a fast yeah i i have heard that that's still in vogue like goop talks about it that's still something that i've heard about to this day yeah but even though their diet was strict no one was ever malnourished and no one ever got sick from these diets the point was not to break these people down because they do that starvation is something that's done a lot of times with cults the point was to make eating a bland monotonous task like filling up a car with gas and you would need to be a type of person anyway to want to live this life so that's why that's why they were even there is because they were into this i wouldn't last 15 seconds no i don't like camping first of all i don't even like camping and i like food i can just see one of them taking a bite of a of a stuffed

crust pizza and then beginning at the stuffed crust all of a sudden the screen becomes light and all of a sudden there's color in the world like pleasant feel like pleasant feel and we're just like wow there is something out there well for apple white and nettles enjoying food was on the same wavelength as engaging in sex because these two things were linked to a mammalian existence next level beings didn't even think about eating or fucking so the group should do the same any idea how the next level beings procreate they don't they just live forever yeah they don't die yeah they don't die they don't they they don't procreate luciferians die luciferians procreate that's what separates the next level beings from the luciferians okay and to make sure people weren't sneaking

cupcakes or masturbating members would take shifts as quote unquote eyes to monitor each other's behavior this is very unhealthy yeah but this was not seen as a threat or a punishment the other members actually welcomed it because all of them wanted to change their behavior as quickly as possible and if you had someone else watching you all the time it was easier to break old habits oh yeah that's not going to lead to a bizarre sexual fetish where now you're a cuckold and you love to watch other people masturbate honestly i feel like you could probably work up a little inner thing being like let me get one out wouldn't be better if i just got this out and then you just watch him do it yeah i mean then he watches you do it yeah seriously like what erin hernan does

used to do with the quarterback when he was in high school yeah isn't that a new necklace documentary pretty good it is pretty good i liked it i recommended the erin hernan does documentary yeah i'll be watching it for sad stories yeah yeah it's pretty good i liked it and of course none of these people were in contact with their families but in 1982 after a lot of them had been totally off of the grid for about seven years some went to visit their parents on mother's day okay but even though you might think these families like henry said would lock these people in a room and call the nearest deprogramming expert uh most of them were so shocked that their children weren't dead that they just welcomed all of them with open arms yeah it's

heartbreaking yeah yeah it's very sad but one member who'd been an aimless drug user on the brink of death when he disappeared he came back a mature helpful enjoyable person stayed for two weeks helped her on the house then disappeared again without leaving an address or phone number was something happened did something happen that they broke the rule that you can't talk to your folks they were given in permission so the some every seven years they got messaging from up top that they should all go and say hello to their families because up and to this point they're still weaning people off of their human relationships so they like to pretend that they're totally cool with people coming and going so what they did was schedule a visit that everyone go do just to see

how cool they were just to see how like no look we're not forcing you to say you can leave anytime you want even though the insinuation was like but you'll come back and we're gonna get right back into this but this is me showing you how cool i am that i'm allowing you to do this right okay and this is not like a proselytizing trip when these people were asked where they'd been and what they've been doing they would give only vague answers about learning computer technology and they would refuse to talk about their day today like this was just the people at this point like the people who were in the cult that's all they wanted they wouldn't start recruiting again for another 10 years or so okay at same year though things took a dramatic and tragic turn

for heaven's gate both for marshal applewhite and for everybody actually in the cult and may of 1982 bonnie lou nettles lost an eye to cancer and three years later she died after a long bout of liver cancer how the hell did she get liver cancer if they're all so healthy and uh i mean no it's that's the thing is that it's not about being healthy that's that was not their diet that was not the reason behind the diet the reason behind the diet was to make eating bland and as utilitarian as humanly possible it was about finding what is the most bland combination of foods that can keep our our vehicles going from day to day today well if they are around today they would just have the arby's um the the cheddar roast beef sandwich which we had and it's very bland now

oh it's awful was this a damning is this a damning accusation against arby's it is labor profiles has slipped it's rare bonnie nettles wouldn't go to a doctor so her body got riddled with cancer and she died even though she had a very extensive prayer there was one of the they all used to go and devise their own prayers so bonnie nettles had a prayer that she would say basically saying i know that there is a gland inside of me that will grow it will grow and heal me and she used to do this every day for hours upon hours praying to not have cancer anymore but then it brewed she got it brutally went all over her whole body but what marshal apple white did was say what this shows is that there is too far of a gap between how close she was to the next level spiritually

and that her body was dying off it was it was it was killing itself so that she can finally be released to go to the next level so he threw her under the bus no i say no she wasn't close enough no no no no no no no it was not a negative thing oh and it was not her fault oh yeah it was just tweaking yes yikes all right it was it was spinning yes spinning and this right here this is the moment when the cult turns bad oh now even though apple white was absolutely devastated by this development he more or less rolled with it i mean he'd lost his closest friend but he had not lost an ounce of his faith and since he was now gone he had to tweak the theology before the line was that followers of apple white nettles would have their biological bodies transformed to the

evolutionary level above human upon their entrance into the starship no dying required okay love it love it but after bonnie nettles passed away everything changed soon after her death apple white started saying that quote these bodies would not survive the transition talk also started circulating of the need to quote abandon the vehicle that was their human bodies it's soft talk they slowly but surely enters these little harmless they're harmless statements saying that the bodies would not survive the transition distancing himself from saying the actual words abandon the vehicle is another like it's using these terms you create the word vehicle to say your body you're separating yourself specifically it is all about making sure that we never say the

word mass suicide because that would harsh some people's mellows right but isn't this the time then that they should be allowed to trash the place have fun get whiskey eat all the cheese you want i mean really that's a very good point well this is 1985 the suicides don't come until 1997 get the cocaine the 80s cocaine before it got destroyed what apple white told his followers was that nettles was indeed still alive but she had gone on to the next level leaving her human vehicle behind in order to skid off on a UFO to the kingdom furthermore apple white said that he was still in constant contact with nettles the chain of mind had not been broken and anything apple white said was supposedly coming straight from nettles and this was wildly fucking convenient

for apple white no kidding see if his followers did indeed believe in the evolutionary level above human and believed that nettles and apple white were inhabited by alien god and alien jesus they also had to believe apple white story that bonnie nettles had reached the next level and so if they believed that she had reached the next level then it followed that everything she said through apple white was now extra super special true because she was now living everyone's ultimate goal they could have made so much money on wall street during this time it was a great boom for the economy in the mid 80s well for certain people for that's what these for nerds for people who look at me i'm up in heaven y'all enjoy myself my pussy fell off my nose things are going great up

here and the starship i gotta tell you what it is really nice it's nice can we eat whatever we want up there what kind of food is now you get soup and beans until you get sam's vision oh man well what marshal apple white now had was a way to beg off anything that anyone said concerning what he said they should do because now it's all coming from nettles and you don't have nettles to there to say oh no that's not actually what i meant that's not actually what i said now it's just coming straight through apple white's brain because when this cult was just run by marshal apple white and bonnie nettles it was totally fine totally harmless everyone's just pretending they're in a spaceship who gives a shit who cares what these people are doing it's all it is all personal

choice they're not hurting anybody they're just doing what they do but once bonnie nettles dies and marshal apple white is solely in charge of everything that's when shit gets dark and that's when you get it get out just wait until you die marcus and i'm just gonna be like oh i'm getting word for marcus oh fine i'll tell them i did all the work for last podcast on the left marcus just told me to tell you the truth i have been the secret praise behind the operation for a long time yes and the brute but then i wonder if they did not because while she was dying they had their private meetings and she was kept away from the group as she physically deteriorated same thing it was very similar to lrh when as he was dying they put him away so they could spin they could

spin all the narratives about what was happening and i wonder if there was not some discussion about where are we taking this thing and that she was because she was a true believer and did believe i'm transitioning we are gonna we are going to talk about my body dying off so i can go and maybe she's just like now y'all gotta come with me she was number one right she was number one i don't think bonnie nettle said you guys gonna come with me because that idea didn't come about until 1994 like ten years but she told him while she told him though from heaven wait a second so you mean their mass suicide plot didn't come together until the grunge movement i see everyone was depressed well in 1988 apple white released a pamphlet called the 88 update and yep he still

got it he mailed it out to new age centers around america although it was weird that he sent out the 88 update because the 88 update was really just a set of guidelines for living within the group and those guidelines hadn't really changed in 10 years if you look that up i think that's the most concise boil down of their inner belief system it's good it's a good rundown from top to bottom if you want to read and and see what they're with the way they wrote about themselves okay then in 1992 apple white recorded and released a series called beyond human cool broadcast on an unknown channel somewhere on old school satellite tv beyond human was a 12 episode series outlining the group's beliefs now i watched hours of this series and the reason why at first i was like

why am i watching this because i wanted to feel what it's like to be in their world like what is it like to sit in a class quote-unquote with dough and hear hear directly from the the fountain hear from the spigot to see have him pour into my mind see what i can glean from this and after hours of boredom i started to really see a pattern that i think was interesting as what i noticed is that every single time marshal apple white would talk about the hard stuff when he would talk about uh his his terminology for mass suicide that even banning the vehicle or he talked about abandoning your family or he turned on the waterworks so you start to see these this kind of the charismatic hole that he'd have on his his followers where the punishment that he used to do

and dole out was that we are now so emotionally close to listening to this praddling uh wide-eyed moron talk for hours that when he start to cry about the stuff that was so hard for him to tell you that he had to do and the burden that he had to tell you to do because it's it's gobbledygook he started talking about how he one of them asked a question but what's the difference between the mind the soul and the vehicle and he started saying that the soul comes from comes from the heavens right comes from the next level beyond human but it's put inside the mind it contains the mind which is a pillowcase filled with mind stuff that percentages are filled with luciferian thought and next level thoughts right but that's all inside the vehicle so the pillowcase the pillowcase

can be bigger than about yay yes okay and you have to increase the percentages of next level mind stuff into your soul pillowcase so it can be the majority of mind stuff inside of you and that it's a constant push and pull to get the get the luciferian mind stuff out lucy's funny little mind stuff out rid of the lucy's get rid of lucy's get the tighties in and then what's the pillow you fucking asshole do the work do the work no i don't you're the one who watched it what is there any reference to a pillow no uh it's a absolute total capital h horseshit well i don't think he's a moron though i think he's he's uh yes he's very uh adroit when you watch him do these videos you see him you see him play the room yeah and you just have these two

watery eyed students watching him hanging on every word smiling so happy to be in his presence and in the first episode you watch him berate them for not asking questions then they start bringing in questions and he doesn't fucking answer a single one of them all is he's all of his answers are the secure circuitous bumbledy gook coming out of his mouth and he's riffing Natalie was watching some of it with me and she put it correctly where she was like it's like a seventh grader asked to do a presentation on his book report and he hasn't done the reading so he's just riffing honestly back against the wall that's when you know you have talent mm-hmm yep well apple white did introduce some new terminology in these videos at least new to the general public

he said that instead of saying me when referring to their bodies they referred to their flesh and blood as this vehicle okay which served to separate them even further from their human urges and apple white took it even further than this the selfie said existed on a hard drive and the body was a form of hardware and the true self was a form of software prayer was radio transmission and miracles were technological wizardry the soul he said was computer technology which was made up of deposits put there by next level aliens but not everyone had deposits and in fact it was exceedingly rare for humans to have deposits as such only those who were gifted with deposits had the eyes to see the message that apple white was trying to bring to humanity which is why he

had so few followers yeah and those deposits that's why and not because it sucks no and because the only so many people get the next level beyond human glands that's put inside of you and those deposits acted as a homing beacon to the level above human which is why those people were attracted to marshal apple white because the deposits the next level aliens put there sent them to marshal apple white because he had a next level alien living inside of him and i believe he also marcus you left one out he said when you are very close with someone and you love that person you stand them and you stand that person i remember him saying he loved it as he says we do not stand our balls anymore no we do not we do not so after beyond human the

group began placing ads in national newspapers and new age centers one ad that ran in usa today said quote ufo cold resurfaces with final offer the earth's present civilization is about to be recycled spaded under its inhabitants are refusing to evolve the weeds have taken over the garden and disturbed its usefulness beyond repair i love that the newspaper were just like well are they paying for the ad i guess we'll just run it i wonder why no one trusts us anymore but uh yeah let's just put this ad in there this is usa today oh i know this is what it still mattered well that ad was run under the name total overcomers anonymous and it's just i think we've all been there and it's decidedly apocalyptic tone matched what apple white was telling his followers

in private by 1994 suicide was officially on the table apple white said that he had received messages from bonnie nettles telling all of their followers to lay down their human bodies in order to join her on the next level and they better do it soon because as you heard the earth was about to be spaded under uh spaded under started as a more innocent term right it was this kind of thing where they kind of softball in it it's going to be psychological change some kind of spiritual change but as things get darker right start saying the world's going to explode into flames uh robot armies are going to destroy us when does he say that it's towards the end it's all of the level all of like episode 12 he starts getting super apocalyptic he starts talking about the the because then i started

reading through this transcripts because i can't fucking listen to him talk anymore and which is because uh cult leaders are dangerous in the fact a shane morton told me this as i was first researching lrh where he talks about how cult leaders have a rhythm yeah they have a they have a speech rhythm which is a part of why they work that's a part of the charisma martial apple white has a rhythm that you get into and like what we discover with anthology you and i talk about this phenomenon all the time all of a sudden he has said an hours worth of nonsense i technically understood every minute of it but it is i couldn't repeat it to you if i wanted to yeah but i just in the moment i'm like locked in mm-hmm well here's an example of apple whites tone let's listen to this clip

of apple white from 1997 which kind of puts all this into perspective i mean i don't care for any of the fame or glory of the human world it's apple is literally worthless to me i can't wait to get out of here there's nothing this planet or this civilization or this kingdom level has to offer me i am away from my father to be here anything that i could sacrifice in this world is no sacrifice at all compared to what i sacrificed in leaving there to come here to try to help those that were given to me as a task i apologize for being so emotional but that happens to be the truth i want to leave here now i'm in a vehicle that is already falling apart on me and i'm desperate to try to help you have a last chance to go let's go back to title of tape title of tape is

last chance to evacuate planet earth to get out of the human kingdom get out of the planet leave it literally now leave it literally means well what is literal then he went bill clinton and worst of all i never learned to read i i his man he is he drives me crazy the crying drives me crazy you know he sounds very familiar he didn't know it's all it's crocodile tears i you know what's interesting is he sounds very similar to uh uh jim jones on the final tape but he's not on uh he's not on drugs it's he does sound like maybe he's slurring a little bit he might be on pills but i don't think so he might have some physical problems right because he said he was breaking down and stuff like that no he's just not a very eloquent speaker uh he

that's what it is he's just fucking he's just he's he's piss pronouncing his worms he's piss pronouncing his words you can take the boy to texas but you can't take the texas out of the boy yeah i think he's just not a very eloquent because you also you also hear uh when he talks he speaks in a very uh disjointed type of way he's just riffing the whole time because when marshal apple white talks he says let me back up for a second he does that constantly where he's going back and forth just because he doesn't really write out everything that he's gonna say he's not reading off cue cards or anything like that like he's just fucking talking he just knows well that's that's a skill in itself and from what was later published most of apple white's followers

were cool with this direction like he asked him what if we had to exit our vehicles by choice does anyone here have a problem with that and most of them didn't because by this point their own bodies have been treated as a suit of clothes for so long they didn't even identify with their bodies as a part of themselves anymore and they must be a little bit older right they must be like fifties marcus made this point last episode which is that that is i i think really speaks to it is that they've been doing this for 20 years right a lot of them so they are their 40s a lot of them and so the average age of someone who killed themselves in heavens gate was 47 so they've talked themselves out of caring for 20 years right and so now it's it is a little bit easier you

are not like because jones town was up essentially a mass very i mean that's a complicated we talked about it up to endlessly on the when we did our series but it's a it's a very fine line between homicide and suicide because so many people there were young family these kids were being murdered at gunpoint it was all of these people who had no will whatsoever and they were being forced to do it literally because they had assault rifles being where these people were already kind of half resigned well the night was brought up and discussed only one member challenged the decision and he just left he said i'm not fucking doing this i'm taking my balls and i am going home yeah the rest i'm just sat and listened as apple white told him that this decision was no different

from jesus's decision to willingly go to the cross 2000 years before right oh wow so a lot of conditioning that's where all of those non what seem to be non nefarious things in the past this makes them a little bit more dangerous yep i mean that's the thing it's in the wrong hands like and when it was in nettles hands it was all right like it was fine you know it's not so cool that you know some of them abandoned families and all that but for the most part it's fine they're not hurting anybody but in apple whites hands when it goes over to apple white that's when it turns fucking dark okay but then they went public with their plans they told everyone they were gonna kill themselves not like on the market they didn't go public they told everyone

three years before the suicide that we're probably gonna kill ourselves in 1994 they released a poster that said the shedding of our borrowed human bodies may be required in order to take up our new bodies belonging to the next world was this a cry for help no okay i mean it's a different sort of help it's a different sort of help it's a different sort of help it's not a cry for help it's a cry for bullets they wanted the government to come and shoot them in the head oh they were looking for like a mass ruby ridge waco type thing yes absolutely were they were trying to provoke the government into coming knocking down their door and filling them all full of holes and the things about that fucking poster that said we're gonna kill ourselves they actually

gained seven new members from that poster it's just hard to say because it's a group of people like it's like looking for an excuse to commit suicide it's like an excuse like and now i found it like this is a way that i can go and channel this feeling in a way that it feels productive it doesn't feel like i won't get the same social stigma that i would get if i just did it myself right this is allowing me to do it and of course it's the whole trickery of your killing yourself to live yes which is the fake that uh yes it doesn't happen no it's a lie it's whatever it might be if there is anything afterwards it's not going to be whichever you think it is no it's darkness i read some uh i read some very interesting things on on google so i'm not going to talk about it

well when nobody showed up at heaven's gates door with guns ablazin applewhite decided it was time to be proactive in 1994 they bought a book called final exit the practicalities of self deliverance and assisted suicide for the dying who wrote that book a some guy that was aimed for terminally ill patients yeah but why are they but they're still relying on all of these more secular i mean pieces of information well i i don't see what that has to do with it it's just weird because aren't they supposed to be better than all the luciferian people out there but i mean just because they're outs not everybody who isn't in heaven's gate is a luciferian there's a lot of holes kissle there's a lot of gaps in their logic i know i'm just trying to caulk over a few of them

here and after they bought that book they started preparations to do it themselves and that's where we'll pick back up for the conclusion of heaven's gate all right very interesting into the inner workings of the cult many many years in the making many years damn um all right everyone will thank you all so much for listening to our heavens gate series thus far we are so excited to conclude next week with part three uh buddy and i don't know it doesn't end great no it doesn't end peacefully or nicely so we're gonna basically do the entire day and we're going to be covering all the facts of what what the fuck happened in this mass suicide highly organized um and uh what a waste is what i'm yeah i still remember it on the news i remember the camera uh panning all i believe

it was bunk beds wasn't it it was bunk beds yeah yeah i was a member of the cult who took that video is that right yeah yes uh yeah he went on to write a book and and try to uh make a bunch of money off that the very end but it didn't sell well we'll talk about i believe his i think he went as the name rio d angelo no i literally think that that is his name i have to relook it up what is okay he's a real rio d angelo from the south real real rio d angelo um well thank you all so much for listening and we must remind you February 14th the last podcast on the left and all the shows here at the last podcast network are going exclusive to Spotify we are so excited about that partnership and we're excited to bring you all over there with us and remember you can listen to it

for free you can listen to it with a free Spotify account you can download the podcast with a free Spotify account it's super easy i've moved all my shit over exclusively to Spotify it works great for me we actually kind of also been in direct contact with them and there are people like asking for the feature of auto download asking for more new episode notifications we're already we're hitting them with it we're saying we are we want this to be done so we kind of have this unique opportunity where we're also directly talking to the bosses of the app that we're just doing it's weird i mean they are nodding at us which is very nice and speaking of Spotify we will be in a bus on April which will be very exciting why will be why will we be in the bus because we're on tour and we are

very excited to see you all in April on tour our book will be out we all have received the copy of the book now it's and it's like so awesome it's beautiful it's kind of crazy to see the work go into it and then come out like have the book in your hands and we really want you to we really want you to come and see this new show we're gonna write we're gonna write a whole brand new show come check us out we are all over April and you're gonna see us in our Spotify bus it's gonna be fucking hilarious it'll be a flawless performance as always as always but yeah we got we need a little bit of help of uh of ticket sales on some of these places kustin love it can los vegas come on out come on out it's gonna be a great tour gonna be great shows come on out can i wait to see you

all keep on support all the shows here on the last podcast network no dogs in space markets this new music show kind of fun the wrestling show breaking down the wrestling news of the week politics breaking down the political news of the week on able to stop at page seven whiz brew um you name it we got it here for you so enjoy you know a whole bunch of different kind of information you can get right here through the wonderful lens of our friends at the last podcast network that's right yeah all right everyone never forget hail yourselves hail satan again let's do a maghustalations maghustalation okay just you know you can go camping with your friends yeah mark is just as you we can go camping that sounds like nice that sounds very nice but we're not we're

gonna we're gonna have weed yeah okay yes of course but you know what what we'll do we'll call them crafts we can set them up i mean it we'll have a whole thing we'll do a star trek themed camping trip and marcus just saying meet me halfway guys i will that's me that is me doing that that's it and marcus henry and i we will be in the main craft and then you can come to us and you can say guys what should i do today and then we'll give you all of the chores to do so you can feel like you're with heavens gay you're a part of it bring us the stakes you can bring us the beers from the deli and stuff like that so not following the two of you you don't have any connection no his name is fucking dope i know i know i got follow him on twitter yeah all right fine this show is made

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