Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 417: Herbert Mullin Part II - Big Herb

Episode Date: July 18, 2020

On the conclusion to our series on Herbert Mullin, we cover the vast majority of his killing spree, which included two families, a group of teenage hikers, and a priest, plus we expand on the inner lore of one of the scariest schizophrenic serial killers to ever exist. Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

There's no place to escape to this is the last Tell you what the only way to prevent earthquakes in my house is when I make sure I wear a bra. Come on guys You're shaking your bosoms right now. It's an audio medium you're Just trying to look at the I'm trying to get my blood flowing before the show I want everybody to hear how hard I'm trying to keep the You're just off Mike. Do you just hear him slap? No, you do hear them slap. Yes, Henry Everyone hears them slap man. My tits. Just keep getting bigger man I keep trying to make them smaller with exercises and the exercises just make my breasts bigger, huh? Yeah, that's the whole point. It's called pectoral muscles. They grow

Oh, they're getting I'm starting to look like fucking Angelina Jolie Yeah, that's what everyone thinks. All right, welcome to the podcast on the left I am Ben staring at the beautiful face of Marcus Parks. Hello, and then of course we have the Recently declared beauty icon Henry Zabrowski, I'm not saying that they have the same allure I'm saying that they are beginning to get the same structure. Oh, well, I have no idea All I know is Angelina Jolie's kids are all grown up and I saw the the now and then on Instagram and how did that make you feel Ben? How did it make you feel?

You know, it made me feel like time is real aging is a process. We're all going through and I take no joy in that I actually find those now and then Snapshot side-by-sides to be quite distressing if you really want to know the truth. Okay, this is great All right, well speaking of great we are on to part two of big Herbert Mullin Herbert Mullin so when we last left Herbert Mullin He was two victims into a 13 person four month long kill spree all because he believed the murders were preventing California from perishing in a cataclysmic earthquake Was he wrong? I

Honestly, that's the big question, isn't it? He's absolutely wrong. Yes. Can't Caliphate He hasn't killed in 40 50 years and no one has died in a cataclysmic earthquake yet. He did enough Maybe we'll get to it. Now just one day after Herb killed Mary Gilfoyle and hung her Intestines from a tree near the corpse Mullins said that he began receiving messages from his father once again This time though Mullins said that his father was angry that he had killed a stranger and not his father himself Which Mullin later said was part of a lifelong push from both his parents and his aunt and uncle to cause Mullins murderous tizzy I tell you what I put a pool in my parents house and my father never texts me Not at all. Is this this is a very strange

Situation for him that his it's his folks that are telling him Psychically, I mean obviously they're not but in his head. It's his parents that are telling them to kill It's everybody else but him kissle. Yeah, everybody else is the reason why he killed 13 people There's so many reasons they they didn't allow him to have self-fully body-wracking orgasms when he was six years old They are the problem. Yeah, or God, you know, it's either his parents or God God told him to do or it's like If I don't if I don't kill people then God's gonna start killing people and oh Do you want to question God and meet me at least I'm having fun with my kills God is gonna make a big wave Come I mean you're gonna hate you're gonna hate to swim until you die kissle

If I was God, I would be so annoyed with the clerical work because everyone's like kill them all let God sort them out I don't like do I have to sort all these people out like I am exhausted I am God and now I have to sort through a series of bodies in Vietnam Are we about to enter into your pitch for the new ABC sitcom God's Temp? I sort of my own Now how Mullins next murder unfolded is told differently in the two sources we've used for this series But the hard fact is that on November 2nd less than a week after Mary Mullen stopped off at St. Mary's Church and Los Gatos and murdered a priest

Okay, now from what the die song says Mullen went to a church after receiving another angry telepathic message from his father and when he saw a light above the Confessional booth indicating that the priest was in a voice informed him that the priest inside was the next to die You see you got to kill Because he doesn't even put the kids asleep before I give them a bit of the kiss on the downstairs parts of the body So his cock still sounds like Bill Cosman Locked in What deadly voices says however is that herb was going to the church to confess to the murders

He'd committed because he hadn't slept for days He was starting to feel a little bit of guilt and so Mullen entered the booth confessed and felt all that weight leave Oh, but perhaps because of the priest's reaction to the confession herb Probably wasn't very good I'm not gonna victim blame here although You know it is what it is, but the priest cannot react That's the whole point of the priest when I had to go to father Steve and tell him I was masturbated at 15 years old I saw him get rock hard and I thought that was also a bad reaction on his part a true professional priest keeps the boner for

afterwards yes, they do Other men priests herb immediately began worrying that he'd said too much and that the priest of former world war two French Resistance fighter named father Henry Tomei. Excuse me on re Tomei was gonna call the police Or at least Herb said that's what the voices were telling him the voices then added surprise Father on re had just offered himself up as a sacrifice. So murdering him. That's gonna be killing two birds with one stone So according to deadly voices Mullen jumped out of the confessional and tackled father Tomei to the ground He then beat and kicked the priest repeatedly before stabbing him to death and fleeing the scene. Oh The die song on the other hand makes the murder much more cinematic

According to the author of that book Herb went to the confessional booth and tried opening the priest's side But found that it was locked. Come on. Come on. Open up. Come on. Come on You imagine being a priest just sitting there while you have like a little mulleted maniac just outside just like Pulling on the door being like come on. I want to tell you everything that I've done. Come on, buddy It's also very interesting that the priest has a locked door like it knows like the priest knows that People at any point are gonna regret what they told him and want to kill them Now all father Tomei had to do was sit and wait it out But since Tomei he actually seemed to be one of those priests who were genuinely concerned with the well-being of his parishioners

He was universally loved by everyone what it seemed about on re is that on re was it there? I think there's there's two types of priests. There's the molest priest and then there's the drunken priest I think that he was a drunken priest. Okay, and now these are these are not mutually exclusive though I would assume there is a Venn diagram. I there is a That is in the Vatican. It's beautiful Well father Tomei like I mean he wanted to see what was the matter so he opened the door But when he opened the door according to the die song Herb plunged the knife into father Tomei's chest and knocked him back into the confessional booth

Then as Tomei was trying to stand up Herb stabbed him in the back of the head leaving the confessional a gore filled death box and then you just can cut to the person who goes in there and confesses next and They're like, yeah, I've really been cheating on my wife. Is that okay? Say nothing if it's fine It's like the exorcist three it really is Herb then left the church covered in the priest blood and drove home where he cleaned himself off using a garden hose in his parents backyard Yeah, don't worry about me. I just dropped a bunch of jam Yeah, all this is freshly made jam. Oh, you want some get away from me. I'm gonna kill you to stop the earthquake Yeah, I'm I'm having a Monday. Yeah, all right. It's all good big herb is just showering with the water hose again

Now Herb had left a lot of fingerprints behind at the crime scene But the problem was that he had no criminal record because although he'd been arrested multiple times or everything from public Masturbation to assaulting a cop. He'd never actually been booked on anything So he's just like a big Marlin that everybody loves to catch once and then throw back Apparently, I mean that doesn't happen anymore. You know finger printed you get your retina scan They take it all if you get a parking ticket nowadays. No, he was never booked. He was never charged with anything They would just throw him a no holding cell and either put a 72 hold on him Sometimes sometimes they'd turn him over to the custody of his father, but he was never booked

Charged with anything never went to trial or any on anything for public mass time for fucking assaulting a cop He never went to he never got a charge. He's too small to be guilty. I Guess so the last time I got pulled over by a cop It was just so crazy because then you know, he asked me to come out of vehicles like what's all it's about It's like I just want to check to see when it scan something was like, okay And then he spread open my ass cheeks. This is weird. Yeah, he Rubbed it, you know, it's a grave rubbings like tombstones. Yeah, they put a piece of paper up against it And then they rub it with a piece of chalk. I've got Donner party gravestones in my office. Yeah, I know

Yeah, he did that to me for a while. Yeah, I'm just my butthole and it came back clear. I guess I got no coven You don't have coven I I think you just described the racially motivated arrest in the movie crash Which is really that was not weird story. That is Halle Berry's Wow Well police also didn't connect the murder of Father Tomei to the slaying of Mary Guilfoyle Because the body had not yet been discovered in Mary Guilfoyle's case And they'd already closed the books on Lawrence White because they didn't really give a shit about a dead homeless guy beating a death on the side of the road But even outside of the gross indifference to the murder of Lawrence White police were nowhere near close to catch and Herb

Because Herb had no connection to the victims and no witnesses could identify him Like one person saw him running away at the church, but they're like I saw a tiny guy running away. That's all I know Right these types of crimes. That's what to me, you know We've been talking about this last episode this type of crime is so terrifying Because it's so difficult to put together because cops are looking for a motive Yeah, they're looking for a straight like a string of logic They're trying to build a story right and create a reasons why someone would kill and that's a lot That's how they focus a lot of their investigation

The whole point is to figure out a story that they can complete where if the guy doesn't have a story or his story Makes no sense and everything is not connected It's very difficult to figure out how to piece together the evidence to say like somebody is doing all of this Especially what he's about to do because he just got started. Yeah Well, I think the the officers missed a massive opportunity to just arrest all tiny people and Figure out and then see them scamper That'll be fun because to watch for tiny people run is fun and then to figure out who who it was They're gonna hate me if I'm in there with all of them because I'm gonna get me and my other shorter brethren together

And we're gonna sing lollipop guild and so they start hitting us with a house Well in addition all that you also have to remember by the time Mullen killed father Tomei police and Santa Cruz We're also dealing with the rash of co-ed Disappearances although police at this point did not know that the three missing girls were dead Decapitated and mutilated at the hands of Bumblebutt Ed Kemper Oh had to spend more time with him this fucking week. I hate that piece of shit I think Ed Kemper might be actually tipped towards BTK the more and more I watch of him really the more I dislike him intensely now after the murder of the priest Mullen did try to revert to some semblance of normal life

Trying to get his life back on track He quit his job and tried joining the Coast Guard thinking his acceptance was a done deal before he even walked in the door Guys, I killed a priest for you Welcome to the Coast Guard. Are you big? Not surprisingly though Mullen failed the psych evaluation immediately and was rejected You know how crazy you have to be to fail at the Coast Guard Motherfuckers of all time they get no respect They don't really do anything other than save a massive amount of lives, but for the most part you're just getting hammered on a boat

I think that this would be the perfect job when it comes to like service that he could have done I respect our Coast Guard. I don't want them to turn against us. Yeah, our buddy Jim twos is a Coast Guard Cadet. Yes. He is great comedian. He did great and then Herbert Mullen went in there And you know, he's sitting there. He's like listen listen listen I got a picture you guys you guys have all these guns and all these bums. What have I told you? If we use those against everybody we'd stop or her stop an earthquake listen to me Well, here we are and hear me out. You take your guns. Uh-huh start killing us me included Me too, but guys honestly get me first

We're gonna stop this earthquake and we're gonna it takes a village. It really does big herb You're onto something. Well, he failed the Coast Guard Psycho evaluation But he passed the Marine Psycho evaluation with flying colors. They see it gave him the same speak he did the same pitch And they're like interesting Wait a second, is it like a reverse Psycho evaluation where they want you if you're crazier How did he fail at the Coast Guard's and get into the Marines two different mindsets two different mindsets? Well, I remember I saw recently assigned for Marines. It says like, you know, it takes Commitment like it does it's something I got about commitment and then if there's one thing that Herbert Mullen was and also should have been is

committed I mean the Marines is what makes the grass grow blood blood blood. What are the coat? What does the Coast Guard have? They don't have anything like that row row row. Yeah, yeah, bubbly bubbly bubbly all day on the salt Me and my friend Walt and Walt's just got a big old tub of chili Everybody it's chilly day at the Coast Guard. We're giving it everybody. Oh my god. I can't believe it's chilly day today on the boat But did you ever notice that we never brought beans aboard? I wonder how he makes the chili. Anyway, I gotta go shit But yeah, his

Enlistment with the Marines that also fell apart, but only through a hitch of bureaucracy See the Marines were ready and willing to take Mullen even with his arrest record, but Herb Argued that he'd never done anything wrong. So he refused to sign a piece of paper Acknowledging his past crimes Oh, yes, I did them but there was nothing wrong with what I did. So I refused to sign this that's actually Again, they should have said that they should have said me like this is a real American. That does make a great great Marine Yeah, Vietnam when was that? It's now buddy

Instead Mullen went back to drop an acid and reading Albert Einstein biographies and after perusing a passage in a book called Einstein on peace extolling the virtues of gun ownership in Scandinavia Herb went out and bought his first gun which he would use to commit his next murder his actual validation Was that he said he was reading this stuff about how everyone's Scandinavia like God had a gun and he's like I'm part Scandinavian I need a gun Literally what he said Albert Einstein the guy with his tongue hanging out being like like funny. He was the one who encouraged the murder

Many murders in this case. He was already dead He was long already dead, but that's the problem and this is the risk we take Marcus writing your books They live forever. Yeah, so you don't know when you're going to inspire massacres. It wasn't by Einstein It was a biography on Einstein. Yeah, it's got nothing to do with Einstein He's never write anything, but I was reading a lot of Robert Anton Wilson. They say those that control symbols control us So remember that that we have our time sequential the version of our brains We we can actually time travel using our words and ideas. Hmm. I have no idea what you mean Oh, I love Toyota. Look at that. Oh, I'm wearing my wonderful swoosh

Actually believe in symbols. Yeah, I don't believe in symbols. Meanwhile. I just spent three minutes checking the J's I bought last night in a fit of retail therapy and I went through just to make sure that I could see the spaced-out fingers on The Jordan label to make sure that the shoes were real That's an indictment of your overall character When late January 1973 Harb got to a knockdown drag-out with his dad and moved to an apartment near Cabrillo College See when Mullen was with his parents and under supervision He'd take his meds which kept those pesky murder voices at bay

But on his own Mullen decided acid was more fun than medication I get it and he began hearing voices once more commanding him to commit another murder This time the voices targeted Mullen's old acquaintance Jim Gianera Now if you'll remember Mullen blamed most of his mental health issues not on his schizophrenia But rather on his drug abuse and that makes a kind of sideways sense from the perspective of acceptance See if the problem was drug abuse the Mullen could always blame all his problems on someone or something else And he could keep it's just the drugs in his back pocket while also continuing to do the drugs But if he accepted that his mental illness was the real source of his problems then the responsibility fell to himself

To seek treatment and care which is a very difficult and scary thing to accept when I talked to my therapist about my own anxiety I explained about how when I have a very acute anxiety attack It feels very concrete and real right it feels like it whatever it is that is the worst thing that I'm thinking of It's absolutely real, and it's coming for me, and there's no way that I can see my way around it It takes time to see around it big and thankfully I am not as mentally ill as Herbert Mullen so I can eventually see that I am being irrational. Yeah, you think you could get into the Marines Be accepted by the Marines the only way the Marines would just see me like what a great cover for other guys He would absorb so many bullets

Like I would that's all I would be I would be a distraction I'd actually be very good at that but Herbert Mullen's Mental illness was so thick and so intense like this type of schizophrenia that he that was just his base His base is that he was riddled with voices and visions and he and they appeared entirely concrete So in if you start chasing the logic down Herbert Mullen thought that that was all real life and that God was talking to him and all these voices were just straight up real And it was just like like having Don Knott's is your landlord It's just a silly thing you got to deal with every once in a while

But the drugs it was something that he was doing on top of it and that's why when he started feeling bad He was just like it's the drugs. I really should stop some of the acid. Yeah, right and for everyone who's not 58 years old That was a threes company reference by Henry's Was indeed the landlord of a I believe a cast which two of three are dead Yeah, yeah, yeah, but come on great, but it can still make you happy come on Do that you do that now and find a bullet in your head. I'm technically the Suzanne Summers of our threes company I'm Susan Summers. Yeah, kissel is

You're Jack Tripper Hey, all right, you're Jack Tripper and wow mark is actually a little upset. I saw that dog You don't think that you're nothing you don't think you're the sexy brunette I know I'm the sexy sensible brunette. I know that I know my god. Oh my goodness There's something wrong with the plumbing. I wonder if you could go fix that for me I'm a man sure, but I don't know what to do sexy lady friend Yeah, I'll just sit here jump in place. Oh What's that Don Nazis here? He just shot himself on our front steps

What an episode Well since treatment care and discipline was the much more difficult option for Herbert Mullen He took the easy road of blame and decided that Jim Giannara had set all of this in motion Because Jim was the first guy who had sold Mullen weed and Jim had somehow quote-unquote tricked him into using it He also made him and he made Herbert Mullen be a conscientious objector to Vietnam Like he made him do it which was the reason why his father Herb's father could never fully accept her because Herb was like I don't believe in the Vietnam War, but I do believe that God wants me to kill everyone and he just ran ran away

But his father was just like I just wish he'd become a barber some kind of manly job And the other the interesting thing about Herb Mullen hated hippies. He hated hippies He'd push him, but he literally would attack him if he saw him. Yeah, wait a second So he's well now I kind of like him again, but that's all the hippies are a great people in theory But then once you really get it once you have to hang out with him. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot He but he must have enjoyed the counterculture. I mean the guy was taking a bunch of acid smoking a bunch of weed I mean he has all the he has all of the the accoutrements of that of a of a revolutionary Yeah, I would say the big thing you'd say. Yeah, Herb was inconsistent

You're right Okay, all right So for the grave offense of selling Herb a little pot Jim Deion era had to die But the murder of Jim Deion era would ripple out to become the deadliest and most tragic spree of Herbert Mullen's rampage man I can't imagine just waking up one day and deciding to kill He was the first person to ever give me weed. I thank him. I actually should send him a car Honestly, yeah, no, I I think that's a great idea to just publicly shout out the name of someone who sold you illicit drugs

Maybe who lives in a state that where it's not legal There's a different millennium don't sell Henry drugs Let the world know You're gonna go down like Takashi six nine So in January 25th 1973 Herbert Mullen woke up to hear a voice telling him that today was the day to kill Jim Deion era So Herb drove over to Jim's house with the express purpose of doing just that Problem was Jim didn't live in that house anymore

Instead a woman named Kathy Francis opened the door Kathy was married to Bob Francis who sold a little weed with Jim Deion era and Kathy was all alone that day with her nine and four year old sons After much coaxing Herb finally convinced Kathy to tell him where Jim lived now and after getting the directions Herb drove over to where Jim was living with his wife Joan and ordered a murder Whoever happened to be there. He had that sort of mystical leaning because now he's a true missionary killer So he is in full missionary mode. He believes that every single thing that is being done is being Directed explicitly by God. So now that he is in motion

much like Richard Chase when he would go and We'd go to a house like we talked about his why they got the nickname vampire of Sacramento It was because he would not enter a house without permission was this weird little Thing this like validation point that he had the doors were unlocked. He was like then I was meant to go in or something Yes, they were inviting me. Yeah. Yeah, this is one of those moments where God directed him straight to Jim Deion era's house But Jim wasn't living there anymore But God doesn't just bring you someplace for no reason in the mind of Herb as we'll see Don't you think that Richard Chase would have killed the family though?

Don't you think Richard Chase would have just gutted that poor woman and her children hold hold place hold place Herb knocked on Jim's door at 10 a.m. And when Jim opened up Herb remembered saying quote I Am really pissed about the time I've been wasting. That's how we opened it Now Jim was a little confused because he hadn't seen Herb for about two years at that point And he told Herb he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about and when his phone began to ring Jim said I'll be right back and left Herb at the door But when Jim returned from the back room after his call, he found Herbert Mullen standing in his living room Wormy creepy dude

You haven't seen in fucking two years right a guy that you spent a lot of time in high school that you watched Your self deteriorate over the years You know that Herb and now Kerb's got a little bit of a reputation even within the community of being a little loosey-goosey Right. He is an unpredictable human being that has like this is the guy They all saw him do the five tabs of acid and then sit there for a second go like I'm actually still pretty hungry And then eat another five tabs of absent like they he knows so he just shows up at your house mid Conversation not you have no fucking clue what the hell he's talking about and then you go like I gotta take a phone call And you come in and now this dude is just pacing around your house. Yeah, damn

So done with all the bullshit Jim finally asked her what the fuck do you want? What are you doing here and Herb responded by screaming quote? You're clapped trapping me He then pulled out his revolver and shot Jim in the arm as Jim tried to run away Herb pulled the trigger again and hit Jim in the elbow Jim still trying to stay alive grabbed a plastic milk jug Through it at Herb and blindly charged, but Herb was too quick and shot Jim in the chest Now suffering from three serious gunshot wounds Jim tried crawling upstairs to his wife and Herb led him Once Jim was in sight of Joan Herb walked up shot Jim in the head and Joan in the chest

He then pulled out a hunting knife and stabbed Jim's lifeless body 35 times as Joan presumably watched after finishing with Jim Herb went over to Joan and stabbed her in the back Finally, he rolled her over shot her three times in the neck and fired a single bullet into her left eye He then picked up the shell casings and left when the phone began ringing once again Now she was in the shower not knowing what was going on and then you just hear this report I mean, it's one of those things that it's a true. This is one of those like true nightmare. Yeah, absolutely Now surprisingly, no one called police to report the five gunshots Which meant that the Gianaris weren't found until a couple of dudes came over to buy weed later that night

Oh, man, I'm nothing but stems man Jim did what's fucking oh Oh No, dude, I should have fucking done anything else with my life, man Hey Steve, does this mean we're not gonna get the weed man? Yeah Yeah, to be But as soon as her left he realized that he'd left witnesses As soon as the news broke about the murder of the Gianaris the woman he talked to earlier Kathy Francis Was sure to report that Herb had asked her all about Jim that same morning

Damn it, man. It's like you came to me. I didn't want to be a witness. You knocked on my door Can you please just leave me alone? And so Herb followed the voices that he said were trying to keep him out of jail so he could continue the mission Yes, you see I'm your lawyer now You see you gotta go tie up loose ends because it's important not to keep them nuts with the real version of me Didn't cause me to die in jail You know, it's really interesting Cosby cock. I I'm happy to talk to you again, but where's Ted cockle?

I'm here Thankfully, I am down near of the peaceful balls Where the only thing we do is plan our next excretion. Oh dear dear dear friend of mine Ted cockled a semen spinner So Herb drove back over to Kathy Francis's house and knocked on the door about an hour after killing the Gianaris And Kathy opened the door there was Herb holding his revolver and asking her if he could have a couple of words as her two kids Played in the living room behind her

Before she even finished saying the word. Yes, Herb started firing The first shot hit Kathy in the chest the next hit her in the head Killing her and before the kids even knew what was going on Herb shot them too hitting four-year-old Damon in the left eye And nine-year-old David in the forehead Then for good measure, he stabbed all three of them repeatedly before again picking up the shell casings and leaving The whole bloody business had taken less than a minute and Herb Mullen once again drove off Having killed five people in an hour and leaving not a single clue behind Damn or at least that was Herb Mullen's

Perception of the murder spree as it was written in the die song Like the father Tomei murder the account and deadly voices is entirely different and I think I know why See the die song was written in 1980 Just seven years after the murders took place and the author was Donald Lund the psychiatrist who examined and Interviewed Herb Mullen that means that he probably took Herb Mullen at his word when it came to how the murders went down Well, he also had to just drag shit out of her ball. Yeah, like it took a while If you listen to that like he had to gain his trust took a really long time for him to open up on anything But it's I feel like you know Marcus's explanation. I think is dead on but he was a little bit of a mess

Yeah, so Herbert was not like thrilled to tell his story Which seems interesting if he really does believe he stopped in earthquake and saved a bunch of people Don't you think you would be like I did it and you should be grateful He liked talking about the theory behind the murders. He didn't like talking about the murders themselves Okay, he was constantly trying to distance himself because it was this whole thing of I had to and it's the same concept of People killed in the military and they get awards. I'm killing people here and I have to go to jail It's like when you snap into a great cheddar bratwurst

You love the bratwurst, but the idea of how it was made. I don't want to get into that right now I'm trying to eat Tell you what I'll watch videos of bratwurst and sausages and hot dogs get made all day and they actually make me very hungry Yeah, but that's because you've trained your brain to be perverted Well as opposed to the die song deadly voices the other source was written in 2015 and most likely reconstructed the murders using both Mullins accounts And forensic reports that outlined where the bodies were found and what condition they were in post-mortem Just like they did with the Richard Chase murders. Like, you know people we had to look at

Uh autopsy reports. We had to look at crime scene reports in order to reconstruct what happened because Richard Chase Was not capable of telling us what the fuck happened. Yeah, right Okay, so where are we at now then? How many murders is he committed? We have the five eight He has committed a total of eight and how long and he gets to a number 13. Yeah, yep Okay, so we're about halfway through. Mm-hmm Well, when it comes to this case for example the Francis family murder Deadly voices has an entirely different account of how it went down and it ain't four eagle eye shots in less than a minute Like the account that I just told

Instead that account says that herb pushed his way in and grabbed Kathy Francis by the arm But she was able to wrench free The author could infer this because the autopsy report probably noted a bruise on her arm Consistent with forceful action telling a story. We also know that she got free and tried running away Because herb shot her in the back and delivered the killing shot to the back of the head We also know that herb didn't just immediately shoot the two kids And we know this based on where the bodies were found when their mother was shot The kids ran upstairs to their room and hid underneath their bunk bed

That's where herb found them and shot them both because he couldn't risk leaving any witnesses alive No matter how young they were. I mean two different stories both fucking terrifying in their own way But entirely different entirely different, but I also wonder In his mind because I know that he definitely the witnesses was one chunk of it. Yeah, but he truly was More than any other type of serial killer like he his goal Was to kill thousands. Yeah, and that this was just supposed to be the very beginning So in his mind and this is fucked up to say He was looking to get people in groups

So that he would build his numbers Like it was like cuphead. Well, yeah, I mean, I think they're both absolutely horrifying But the latter does make more sense, right? Yes when it comes to the stories I mean the kids I would understand that they would run away and hide under the bunk beds and all that Wait, how is it like cuphead? Do you get points in cuphead? I don't know what the fuck cuphead is. It's a highly difficult side-scrolling video game. That's I was looking at it Cuphead is what derailed you Marcus I didn't understand. I love cuphead. I fucking love that game, but I didn't understand points. What the hell is cuphead?

It's a video game. We're talking about two children that were just murdered under a bunk bed and somehow cuphead and your Anger over Henry's analogy you see cuphead is the thing that's making you upset Yeah, it's the european version of cuphead where you kill as many people as possible to keep the earthquake from happening to beautiful beautiful budapest hungry Well, no matter how the murders happen the only thing we're gonna talk about cuphead again Marcus There's like no matter how you play cuphead. I could talk about cuphead a lot. It's a great game Okay, but no matter how these murders happen The only thing cops knew is that the victims at both the francis house and the giannara house most likely

Knew the murderer or murderers because there was no sign of forced entry at either crime scene But because both the giannara and francis families were known to deal a little weed And since police had finally discovered that dismembered remains of one of ed kempers victims So there was all that to deal with They wrote off these murders as a drug deal gone bad because it was easier. Oh my god. It's weed It's so jokey. It's so dumb because they literally were it's the lightest like Vague version of humboldt county trading like it was it was it was not weed deals

They just were kind of selling chunks of weed to each other to other people that they knew They don't have any guns like they were four to nine year old though a four to nine year old are dead And they're like, oh, that's that's the weed dealer for you They thought that both jim giannara and bob francis had pissed off some big dealer and in retaliation had killed both of their families It's nice when you just get to make up shit and then you're just like we don't have to do our job today Good work everybody. Good work at the high fives all around. They get one guy. They don't like to touch They give them an iou for a high fight No, that's better than a high five

Now the only survivor out all this was bob francis kathy's husband But he had no reason whatsoever to bring up herbert mullen because as far as he knew Mullen was just a wacky acquaintance of jim's who had disappeared from jim's life years earlier The last check on your wacky acquaintances This is a good time during quarantine This is a good time to check on your wacky acquaintances and make sure that you are not on their hit list like steve pushemi in um What's its putts billy madison billy madison one of the greatest references that we make regularly here on the show

um And if you are currently sharpening a knife making your own arrows like bow jackson, but you're not bow jackson stop Stop sharpening knives if you're doing that right now stop look at the window birds Isn't that a reason to live isn't that amazing that they can fly and they sing Isn't that a nice reason to love life? Well the last time jim or bob had seen herb was 1971 when they watched him do 10 hits of acid in one sitting And the last time jim had contact was an erratic letter herb had sent asking jim who he was going to vote for

I actually have to know what are the political leanings of uh big herb He was very liberal See see I don't know why I said see I would have said see if you would have said No, but herb bowlin is he's a bi-con Yeah, okay, okay Well as far as suspects went the only people bob francis could think of that might have been capable of killing two families one day Were a couple of guys from sacramento named bucky and lucky But of course bucky and lucky were innocent of at least this crime

Yeah, yeah And mostly what we do is uh siphon gas at ice Yeah, it's my I like doing that so the ice cream trucks have to stay parked Any of the kids they don't get any fucking ice cream Yeah, yeah, bucky and lucky sound like two guys who can't get within a hundred yards of a water park And we don't know why but that's just the rule that yeah And any man named lucky must have at least two or three missing fingers And an eye patch. Yeah. Yeah

Meanwhile herb mullin was still wandering the santa cruz area waiting for the right excuse to kill again And less than two weeks after he annihilated two families He found it in a murder spree that rivaled his day of family annihilation On february 7th herb was gathering firewood in henry cowl state park when a forest ranger stopped him And told him that what herb was doing is against the rules. You got to put all that wood back Yeah, he's just stealing wood from the forest. Yeah, but it's there for free. This is wood from the forest I mean, it's still not free. It's you can't just go pillage the forest I don't know you ever walk in another man's footsteps

You ever seen the warm colors of the earth? Have you ever looked at all the wonders that surround you and ever wondered what they're worth? If you don't know the is there's a price on the color of the wind No, first of all wind doesn't have a color second of all no You can't just go to a national park or a state park and steal all the wood It's not stealing if there's no ownership. You know, it's interesting as I thought these opinions would be switched between the two of you You can't do it. I mean the wood is there. Do you have to use that when you're camping?

And then you imagine if you're camping and then ever like who took all the wood? I'm I'm only with herb because herb this guy comes here. Hey, you got to pull this wood back He's like, uh, I didn't happen to see mr. Forest ranger written on all of these logs That they belong to you or oh, let me see park right above the damn thing One of these logs say it belongs to more east of squirrel Did he write his fucking name on him? Spoken like a man who grew up in a home that stole cable So after staring at the forest ranger for an uncomfortable amount of time saying nothing

Herb threw a hissy fit and started jerking the wood out of his car and hurling it back into the woods from Whence it came. Yeah, sure. Why don't I give the beavers back their beaver money? Oh, right here we go Everybody tells me I'm crazy. Oh herb. You're crazy. Meanwhile. You're telling me I can't go to a forest Full of wood and just take some for an order for me to burn a bunch of bodies If you are big herb it is kind of strange You didn't currently get in any trouble for murdering eight people and this is what you're getting in trouble Or this is where authorities have drawn the line on what's appropriate. Why don't you go help a bear stop people from setting fires? Okay

The next day herb was walking the trails in that same park when he came upon a group of four teenagers Just having a good time in the forest But since you know, they were kids they were drinking and they were being maybe a little bit too messy You know, it wasn't the cleanest campsite, but to herb This was an obvious infraction of the same sorts of rules. He'd been chastised for the day previous Oh my god, they're gonna fucking tell me So I gotta take all my logs that I spent almost 15 minutes gathering and I had to put them back And these kids over there could make put a bunch of beer cans

Just on the ground. Yeah. Oh my god. That's what triggered this This seemingly incongruous application of park rules And since herb to the point where he essentially turned into a real life Jason Voorhees if Jason was more concerned with littering laws than getting revenge on camp counselors You just pitched a movie An eco-friendly Jason Voorhees Absolutely, absolutely

um, and the funny thing is when he's grabbing somebody and Throwing them against a tree and making their brain splatter on a branch. He can say reduce reuse Recycle And that'll be a great great little thing Jason Voorhees was concerned with littering though. Was he he was concerned? Yes, absolutely. Jason Voorhees wanted a clean camp. It was his camp. That's his home. That's his home So the boys ages 15 to 19 had built a makeshift cabin and suddenly They were faced with herbert mullen standing in the doorway of their innocent little retreat He told them that he was a park ranger. The camp was government property. They couldn't camp here and they had to leave

Yeah, you're gonna have to leave all right because you guys built a little cabin on top of maurice the squirrel's apartment building and isn't his little apartment building the most precious Little place where squirrels live and have a place to sleep before going to their squirrel work as little squirrel accountants Thank you big herb. You shut up morris. I'm not talking to you right now The boys not surprisingly told this wild-eyed hippie with a tattoo that said eagle eyes marijuana to fuck off Like you're not a fucking park ranger get out of here And when herb saw that the boys were in possession of a rifle he walked away

But from what he said the voices wouldn't let the boys live Herb turned back and claimed to have spoken to each camper telepathically asking if you could kill them Supposedly they said that's okay. We know we have to die and we're prepared for the sacrifice go ahead So herb walked back to the makeshift cabin open the door and shot all four of them with his revolver before they had a chance to react None were killed in the opening assault But one stayed conscious and had to watch as herb calmly finished off the rest and finally Shot the survivor in the head If a wild-eyed man comes to your cabin

be nice to him Like I know I'd say you got to I'm not blaming these people. Absolutely not. There was nothing to do That's the worst advice punch him The meanie will not come out Lean into crazy is what I've discovered in my years is lean into crazy. Listen to crazy say, oh my god, you're right You're right. We got to do something about this. Let me uber you to where You got to go Do you think that this is you projecting?

Natalie in your relationship and do you think that Natalie is going to be happy with you saying lean into crazy? That's why she married me. Yeah, she brought crazy closer. Yeah to keep an eye on Ah, you're the crazy one. That makes more sense. Yeah, you don't marry Henry Zabrowski without knowing that things are going to get a little unpredictable We make love Okay, great Well after killing the four boys He picked up the rifle he'd seen earlier took 21 dollars out of the boys' wallets and walked away once more

Leaving the four bodies to be found days later After the discovery of that crime scene police also found the body of Mary Guilfoyle Finally three months after she'd been killed Cops found Mary's disemboweled corpse in the Santa Cruz Hills Although they erroneously attributed the gruesome slaying to the co-ed killer. He had wildly changed m.os Yeah, so they were found they were finding a bunch of bodies that had been heavily dismembered Okay, bumblebutt And they just assumed it was another one of his at this time period

So That body at this point three months later that must have been like basically a skeleton I mean if I'm I would imagine it was probably pretty uh destroyed by wild animals at that point. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't look good Damn. Yeah. Hey, it's not going to make the cover of gq Honestly though, it very well might make the cover of gq. It very well might Why do you say that? Because they love putting gruesome stuff on the covers. Don't you know that not gq so much but rolling stone does And so does national inquirer and believe it or not 2021 gq is just going to be nothing but corpses

Because that's they're going to lean in to the true crime thing and obviously they're going to be late They're going to be late to the true crime wave because it's already starting to crest Yeah, but they will start just putting up non-stop footage of death. Yeah, it's just gonna be good It's going to turn to gross quarterly Yeah, exactly for gentlemen, but When ed kimper turned himself in just days after mary gill foil's body was found police were both surprised and terrified to discover they had not one But two serial killers with a penchant for mutilation on the loose

Because they thought when ed kimper turned himself in like oh, shit. This is great. Like all of these murders are solved They're all going to stop but you know ed kimper was extremely open with everything He knew all these details about these other murders, but all the shit that herb mullin is done He's like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. It's not me. You guys got a problem That guy sounds crazy. That guy sounds real freaking nuts guys Thankfully though herbert mullen's rampage was nearly at an end Although he sadly had to kill one more person in broad daylight right next to his car before police finally caught up to him On february 13th, herbert said he was loading firewood into his car when he heard his father

Telepathically telling him not to come home until he'd killed someone dad. I don't want your life But the voices also said like we'd prefer it if you killed your uncle enos that would be best But uncle enos won't even show me his ball He's yelling this in the middle of a fight. I I've been there. I've been this type of self muttering person And for those that don't know that dated reference that was varsity blues a great film There was a big actor named. I think his name was big piggy And then there was a woman who was covered in whipped cream whipped cream. Yes. Was it casper van dean?

He was in starship troopers james van der beek. Yeah, james van der beek. A wonderful actor james van der beek. Yes, indeed Yes, they won the game. Don't want to ruin it for you. You're ruining the game They did they didn't win the big game. I actually don't know if they did burn a move that tells you that maybe herb was a little more In control than he let on He resisted the order to kill uncle enos until the voices relented and said just kill somebody anybody Doesn't matter who but you can't come home until you do and that's why I wrote my book called the art of the deal It's her mullins art of the deal not to be connected to the president's book art of the deal This is my thing. It's all about push push push. Don't settle don't settle don't settle

And then eventually you get to kill somebody that isn't your uncle enos. You know, he won't let you fuck his wife In order to put a baby in her So this is the uncle he showed up naked to right? Yeah, this is the they're all nude But how did he disagree with himself? He just argued. I don't want to kill him but he's arguing with himself I don't understand. He's like, but why did he why did the suggestion even come in that because he's fucking crazy He's schizophrenic crazy person. There's no logic at work when it comes the only there There is a strange logic when it comes to schizophrenia. There is a it's it often schizophrenics make connections where none exist But when it comes to rational logic, there really is none

Okay, you just because you go chase it and chase it and chase it there's you won't get to the bottom of it He has an interior logic. It's like tripping balls or a dream where you have a bass and he is Hearing these voices like it's not like a thought. It's not your mind's voice. No He's sitting and hearing audible things that sound like they're coming from outside of his body That are talking at him. So he thinks he's negotiating essentially with god. Yeah Oh, okay, or the voice in his dick and balls, but the voice and they all were all different They were all different things. Yes, indeed. All right strange So herb grabbed the rifle. He'd stolen from the campers out of his car and saw 72 year old fred pares

Weeding in his front yard Mullen aimed and with one shot to the heart killed the world war one veteran before getting back into his car You can't kill a guy when he's gardening. Nope. Let the guy garden But instead of driving away immediately Herb just sat there and by the time he snapped out of it and drove off A neighbor had already called in descriptions of both the car and the driver as well as the license plate number and the direction The car was going Herb was soon pulled over and arrested without incident and so began the interrogation of herb mullin

Who at this point was only in the clink for the murder of fred pares But going off the fact that herb had murdered a man for seemingly no reason They started cross referencing the weapons found in herb's car with unsolved murders pretty soon They connected herbs revolver to the murders of the gianeras the frances family and the dead campers And his fingerprints were matched to those found at the murder of father tome And the interrogation got even further though police discovered an absolutely terrifying inner world I mean sure mullen discussed his belief that the murders he committed prevented earthquakes But there was a much deeper lore at work there

See mullen by this point had come to think of murder as a natural disaster that man had erroneously made illegal and making murder illegal was no more effective at stopping it than making say Earthquakes illegal would stop those I think earthquake should be illegal He sounds he sounds like the like 18th most successful candidate for libertarian President like he sounds like I can already see like he vermin supreme Who is genius?

Just be like murder should be legal and then there would be some people being like He's got freedom That's when you get to the point where yeah more research the squirrel is your he's in charge of the the interior He's the secretary of the interior and this 7-11 cup is my vice president But mullen said that he could stop major natural disasters like earthquakes by committing Minor natural disasters, which is how he referred to murder said murder is a minor natural disaster And when don lund asked why herb should be locked up if murder was natural and had a good effect This is what herb said

Your laws You see the thing is People get together say in the white house People like to sing the die song You know people like to sing the die song they do that if I am president of my class when I graduate from high school I can tell to possibly three young homo sapiens to die I can sing that song to them And they'll have to kill themselves or be killed and ought to be an accident a knifing a gunshot wound

You ask me why this is you ask me why this is And I say well They have to do that in order to protect the ground From an earthquake because all of the other people in the community have been dying all year long in my class We have to chip in so to speak to the darkness We have to die also and people would rather sing the die song than murder And when lund asked him what the die song was mullen said this

Just that I'm telling you to die. I'm telling you to kill yourself or be killed so that my continent Will not fall off into the ocean. You see it's all based on reincarnation. This dies to protect my strata And he said all of this with the utmost confidence Well, mr. Mullen if you met my wife, you'd know death would be a courtesy I get you I get you buddy. So I should I gut her You want me to pull the pups out and then put them all over a bunch of trees like Christmas ornaments? Seriously, sir. Could you? Well, let's just talk to a judge. You make murder not a crime anymore. So I can get out See mullen's belief in the die song actually had a biblical basis

specifically to the story of jona and the whale In that old testament story if you don't know it god calls on jona to be a prophet But jona refuses and instead goes on a sea voyage with a bunch of sailors Let me tell you the story here. So jona fucks the whale, right? So jona's on top of it. It's humping up it and that's where whales got their holes That's the that's the old asops people There's a lot of animals that got their holes by getting fucked. Yeah Well, because jona refused prophet hood went on a sea voyage

God sent a storm to kill jona as punishment and the sailors Surmising that jonas refusal of god is going to kill them all because god doesn't really care who he hurt some pursuit of punishment They throw jona overboard And then of course, he's you know swallowed by the fish and the fish and then it's a fish Yeah, and for three days and which is not acting back up I mean, how would you even live and it doesn't make any sense? I hate that story and I got in trouble when I was eight years old for me Like how would you live inside of a whale and then they they yelled at me?

But it's true. You can't live inside of a whale. It's all blubber and The touch toxins alone will kill you I hate growing up in religious Kissles. I hate religion. It's so stupid. It doesn't make sense It's just hard kissle because I it's weird to see you grasping for logic You know what I mean? You're grasping for it. You're digging for it. Always This is a it's a really important to you. I get that I'm with you on that. Um, there's just not it never gets To the bottom layer. You know what I mean? What's even what's the parable?

I don't even understand the parable of jona and the whale the parable is do what god tells you to do Or else god is going to make your life fucking terrible And he's gonna and you make a whale eat you Yeah, but you have to learn to like the punishment because that's god's lesson and god's lesson Should be held sacred no matter what that's like the whole job shit where he's thankful to be Constantly harassed by an evil and vengeful god But herbert moans interpretation of the story of jona and the whale Was that jona actually chose to go overboard thereby saving everyone else. Hmm extrapolating from that viewpoint

mollin said this Picture two guys standing together in the bilge after jona jumps over after the storm's all over right Two guys are standing there smoking their pipes after the danger has passed and they say, you know I bet if jona hadn't have killed himself God would have killed all of us And they get to town and they go to a bar and they tell the people about jona and they say We think jona saved our life by committing suicide and the people at the bar They say well, maybe that will help us so they go out and they get somebody right

So the story goes and it goes on and it goes on and it goes on Geez okay, what an accurate interpretation of the bible Strangely nailed it So the die song notwithstanding the cops took the mountain of evidence They had on herbert mollin and charged him with 13 counts of murder But like ted bundy herbert mollin chose to represent himself in court He really tried and it does sound like if you cast martin short as a defense attorney So what if i'm my uh, what if i'm my own client the defense attorney and all the jurors

does that work Unlike ted bundy though herbert mollin had no idea what he was doing So the judge appointed him public defender james jackson who had already represented family killer john lindlake frazier And would later represent ed kimper this guy to hell of a resume I mean it's all the same what's fucked up is that it's all the same neighborhood And then i'm also reading watching uh, i'll be gone in the dark and it's also very close to the same neighbor It's just this beautiful part of california. That's just the golden say killer doc, right? Yeah Now when the state went to judge competency mollin was obviously diagnosed as schizophrenic

But when it comes to pleading not guilty by reason of insanity the question is not whether the person is mentally ill Instead the only question according to the monotone rule Is whether or not the defendant knew what they were doing was wrong and illegal when they did it The question what if i just forgot that it was wrong? That can i just forget can i just get a mulligan? On it because murder shouldn't even be illegal. You're trying to you're trampling on my rights And of course the mo what is it mulligan the monotone the monotone. Yeah, the monotone rule is also when you uh mandates cheese

On mash potatoes do it finish it finish it finish the bit finish it You have to put cheese on mash potatoes. I am We wake up earlier here in the west coast um, so sorry So based on the evidence the judge declared herbert legally sane for the murders of the gianeras the frances family the campers and fredlopez But not competent for the first three murders of white gilfoil and tome. Why they The other crimes you could see that he actively tried to cover him up

Like he tried to he had pre he premeditated and he hid evidence It showed that he knew that there was right and wrong where the other crimes were so crazy Very intense and all over the place in terms of brutality That they were like this is when he was in some form of psychotic rage I feel a little bit bad for the uh for the family members of those first three. I mean, I understand He's still going away forever, but that kind of stings a little bit. I would assume Yeah But while herbert moham was on trial ed kimper was waiting for his to begin

And the two were held in the same prison in adjoining cells as we said last episode not surprisingly They fucking hated each other Oh Oh my god I watched a clip ed kimper talked about herbert moham for like 15 minutes in his 1991 Interview with this like french reporter once it like because at this point Interest in ed kimper but 1991 had already really dipped the true crime wave wouldn't happen again Into like 20 years later

So he was not it was not as interesting to people but he spoke for a long while about as he called him Herbie herbie because he said that him and herbie had a natural that herbie naturally hated him because the small hate the big Well, that is In another point in the show where I have to agree with a sociopath The small do hate the big and that's why they've made a bunch of ridiculous rules that keep us from killing the Oh now you're full or mullin libertarian

And now it's time for my vice president this 7-eleven cup to speak on guns I love them Well from what kimper said herbie had a habit of singing and bothering people while everyone else was trying to watch tv So ed would throw water on herb to shut him up The way to describe ed kimper's breakdown of this is disgusting I fucking hate him But ed kimper said that there were time periods much like ted bundy who worked for a suicide hotline. He Worked I from what I remember he did work

A uh psychiatrist office like he was doing stuff with like a therapist office for a while Very similar to ted bundy because he was trying to get as close to the cops as possible because he was a cop groupie and he loved He believed himself to be a master Master manipulator and that he was smarter than fucking everybody else. And so what he wanted to do was learn about human nature What he said in his own mind was to help him understand himself But he eventually used these tools to try to Hurt people like he put the idea of trying to get not just a physical mastery of people But a psychological mastery of people so with herbert mullin. He was like I needed to create a body

I needed to create a Uh behavior modification system with him. Yeah, and I was going to do this I was going to learn how to do this So he set up a system where there were their jail cells were separated. They were next to each other But they couldn't see each other herbert was really mad that he got bumped from the main There was a main cell that could be seen from the front office that everybody so people could wave at you Or like do this kind of stuff and ed kimper lured it over this space Basically being like I love being in cell number one

All right The the prison politics in this case are something interesting. It's it's annoying Herbert mullin was dropped to number two which made him really mad. So he'd sing all night So when he'd start to do realize it's like so what I have to do is punish him when he's being bad And I needed to reward him when he's being good But I can't really see him so ed kepper enlisted another member of the the One of the other prisoners on the other side they could see where herbert mullin will call it the bumblebutt militia There is the the bumblebutt militia went and they he would position himself within his own cell where ed kepper could see to see

Where herbert mullin was hiding inside of his cell so that ed kepper could retrend and splash him with water Like by sticking his hand through the bars and getting him through his bars. Yeah It's almost adorable in its weird Ridiculousness and of course the it's it's diabolical as well. Oh, you hear this I mean you want to talk adorable when herb was in kepper's words a good boy He'd give him peanuts because quote herbie liked peanuts That's a dorkable and I stand by it if someone calls you a dorkable you can stab him And the way he said it's because you know herbie because it's jailed

So you have to he would give him these little he got this packet of like salted peanuts a whole bag a little packet of Assaulted peanuts and he'd give them one and he'd be like, okay herb. How you doing on those peanuts? And he says like I got some left. I'm saving them. I'm saving them for myself You hear my eat crunch crunch crunch crunch crunch It's like you just keep eating on them buddy because I get a whole bag of them and he's like Wee-wee Straight up and he did he trained him. Yeah, he trained herbie. Yeah, and pretty soon harb was asking kepper permission to sing So we have 13 murders on mullinside and how many murders on kepper? What did he take down?

How many folks I think eight I think eight including I think eight including his grandparents So we've got 21 murders combined and these people are working on training via peanuts Okay, he became an elephant trainer Now harb's trial went about as bad as you'd expect especially when he demanded to take the stand I want to see this Once there he stood the entire time and called himself the designated leader of his generation I'm the guy You're the guy?

My best friend marisa squirrel this 7-eleven cup the bill cosby voice that lives in my dick We are telling all of you what you need to do Damn. All right, bill O'Reilly. We got you He said that it was his responsibility to get enough people to commit suicide and or consent to murder every day Or else the whole fucking state was going to fall into the ocean. Yep. Okay when he was cross examined He said on the stand that his victims consented to murder telepathically and that all homo sapiens communicate telepathically But it isn't talked about because telepathy isn't socially accepted Telepathy is socially rude and that's why no one's talking about it because no one wants to understand how often everybody's thinking about everybody's naked

All right, so you tell me you asked me what I know about people asking me to kill them And I'll tell you everything that you need to know because it's the only thing you need to know when you're in a needed No basis Mr. Mullen don't want to blow your dick off here, but uh, is it possible to let the telepathy is not talked about because it's uh Telepathy. Wow. Holy shit. Yeah, the smartest lawyer I've ever met. Yeah The whole point would be that you don't talk about it It would not be talking there would be no need to talk about telepathy if it would be it's telepathy I bet if I kill you you worth like five lawyers. God will love that if you can kill me that'd be great

I hate being a public defender. I hate you. I hate ed Kemper. Um, I hate the entire community I only got this because my father demanded I become a lawyer and uh, I haven't had an erection in 10 years I feel like there's a whole generation of people that were all forced into jobs that they didn't want to do Well, everybody else was just listening to music in a field Like in the 1960s every be all the cool people were just having a nice time and everybody else had to like Be forced to keep the country running or go work and do a little bit of a massive bump But ultimately the jury was swayed by the Extensive measures harbert mullen took to prevent capture. You know, he sanded down the bat

After he murdered laurence white He gathered up the shells at the g&r and frances crime scenes and how even the frances murder was specifically To prevent witnesses from telling on him Really the only thing that made the courtroom say whoa was all the instances of the number 13 Yes, we it's super weird. It's wiwi weird See mullen had come to think of himself as the 13th disciple because after all Yes, I thought he was the disciple of the crooked god What

Mr. Mullen, I do have to say you do kind of rock Because after all I mean he's supposed to be doing this to appease god And going off his beliefs in numerology. He believed that this claim had stacked up He'd committed his first murder on october 13th his last murder on february 13th And in the end mullen had 13 victims He would hold on to this, you know, like, you know schizophrenics making connections were nonexist He would hold on to this is like this is proof that I am right Did he do that on purpose or was that just happenstance? It just total happenstance

Yeah, it was a happy accident. Oh Okay Even his lawyer brought up the number in his closing arguments albeit for completely different reasons The lawyer said quote Oh god Herbert killed because he has to But he doesn't know why I suggest that a person who kills 13 people and doesn't know why Is mad but the jury didn't buy it because as we know

American juries have only bought the insanity defense when it comes to serial killers once And that was in the very special case of edgine He's a very special guy and I think that he was mostly He got that because of like his weird It's something about how you present yourself in court too where it's just edgine's Sleepy smile and his farmer's hat on like waving at people going like oh, this is a nice table Oh, look at this. I take three people to make this table. This is a nice one. They have to just be like, okay Stop

Stop looking at all of the furniture and deciding how many bartenders it would take to make these That is the power of wisconsin charm. No, they just religious like, you know, this is good apple pie But it'd be a lot better with a slice of cheddar cheese on top. You know what I'm saying Meanwhile, he had his fucking dick through his mother's vagina that had been dried out for years Just take it out. Meanwhile, like at the same time Ed's apple pie recipes pretty delicious pretty pretty good with mullen He was found guilty of two counts of first-degree murder because he had premeditatively killed jim g and erin kathy francis But he was guilty of second-degree murder for all the others because those had all been spontaneous

When mullen was finally taken away to prison He had no remorse whatsoever only saying that he was glad it was all over because that meant he could finally get away from ed kemper He just wanted to get away from his horrible roommate. That's that's the only that's what I I said, I'm sort of happy. He was that annoyed. I'm kind of happy. He was that If you put me in a jail cell like next to him, I would just confess and just be like just get me away from him Just get me the fuck away from him. I'm sick of hearing about how brilliant he thinks he is Okay, how was ed kemper more aggravating than a schizofrenic who killed 13 people and I'm not

I'm just wondering how he was more aggravating. It's a superpower He got to be more annoying than herbert mullen who I think is probably up there in terms of annoying serial killers And today herbert mullen is still alive He was denied parole in 2006 after taking no responsibility for his crimes. He was up for parole He was up for parole because he didn't he went to prison. He didn't go to a mental health facility He went to fucking prison and kemper was up for parole in 2017 and he said no, thanks. I don't want to leave Yep, but mullen still blamed his parents and he felt that the state should be publicly Chastising his parents for telepathically pushing him into murder. Would it hurt though?

I feel bad for his parents. I really do but since 2006 he has changed his tune And you can read all his apologies on his website that was last updated in october of last year It's called herbert william mullen dot org and you can read all his apologies in addition to his newfound religion Worshipping what he calls the god of america should have gone with big herb for 20.com It is truly out of school Um, he is now saying i'm sorry a lot I love this rehabilitation attitude. I believe I have a positive attitude. I accept responsibility for the crime spree I am sorrowful and remorseful for having committed the crimes

I'm determined to live my life free of crime and criminal thinking how you're in prison I look forward to parole and planning on a being on a good And planning on being a good member of society I look forward to participating in organizations to help the community exist in a healthier more worthwhile way I honestly believe that I have a positive and worthwhile attitude This is but he keeps saying i'm sorry. So this is huge But is is he sorry? Well, he only started saying i'm sorry after the whole my parents pushed me into murder thing didn't work at his last parole hearing

So this is all horseshit. Well, I mean the thing is is that the uh, his cock's still talking to him He didn't stop being schizophrenic just because he was in prison He did however get a job as a prison janitor and he does that in between his numerous psychotic breaks And he's up for parole in february next year. So fingers crossed fingers crossed tentative It's still just in on the website from from what january 1st 1967 until my arrest on february 13th 1973 I was a naive gullible an immature Indifferentiated schizophrenia Experiencing nonverbal cognition syndrome with myself as I missed the point

About growing up maturing moving away from home and parents making a living in the world and gathering and managing my own fortune Now 41 and a half years in prison I am a mature competent efficient and effective gentleman scholar You know, I'm happy that he's changed a little bit. I guess I mean, mm-hmm. I don't know that's tough to say he seems Yeah, whatever. He still blames drugs and alcohol Yeah, I think he should probably just be a prison janitor One thing we didn't cover though Is that herbert mullen was also a sometime songwriter or at least a lyricist

And if the two of you would allow me, I'd like to play a recording of my own personal interpretation Of a herbert mullen song called the switcheroo. Now. I want y'all's honest opinion of this Let me let me know what you think. This is just this is just me having fun. You know what? I just had fun with it So you made this marcus. I did this. Yeah, this is all this is all me. Yeah Two three four. He showed me everything but I didn't see He knew I didn't see and he told me not to look He wasn't very gentle and he wasn't very kind and when he wants something he's really he's really mine You're scared too. I guess so you light up like a horny puss, but it probably ain't true

I need you to I don't know why it was always there, but never really gelled So it's hi hi hi singing glory on the wind. Yes, it's true in glory land. They're coming through and through One time only friends Happened to me too. The quark is so true when my time is through the only survivor will be no not him Not me switcheroo switcheroo switcheroo

switcheroo switcheroo switcheroo switcheroo You know I understand why you share a similar mental illness to daniel johnston That is really there is something in that marcus. That is really I love you did a great job, buddy. That was really good. Thank you very much Right on the money. It's exactly how I imagined he would sing it. Yeah, it's out. It's out

You have a you have a very um You I get comfortable with your singing voice very fast. Oh, thank you very much. That that's actually that's a very good compliment Thank you. No, you weren't very it's nice to hear. It's easy on the ears. What a fucking story Yeah, what a story. Oh my god. That was insane herbert mullet folks. That was I cannot believe this man was not more well known Uh, this is like one of those serial killers that was that was full of surprises Absolutely insane and it's the fact that he's still alive kind of makes it Um, scary makes it scarier. It's something about those old dudes that are still around

David berkowitz is still around. Yeah, um, they he's still you know, btk. He's still alive They're all just hanging out at kempers still alive. Yeah at kempers alive Piece of shit. They're all the worst. It's all the worst ones It really is Why do I miss charles manson? You know what man? I watched the uh, what it's called an unsound vine It's about it's a documentary about charles manson from the perspective of him being a musician I watched it last night like man. It's like, yeah, it's for some reason having charles manson in the world

I don't know why it made things a little bit better, but it did Well, he didn't actually kill anyone. He just uh, well, he did at least one. He might have done one We don't know what I I'm I will never absolve him. No, man. Is that an innocent man? He is a bad person and a villain, but Yeah, he was just he's just a patch of the american quilt is gone. All right, everyone Thank you so much for listening to this series herbert mollin big herb Absolutely insane Unbelievable story this week on the lpn show. I have to mention we have daniella panetta. She is uh chatting with me

She's in Jurassic world. She is going to be fey valentine in the upcoming netflix series cowboy beatbox It's gonna be huge which is like huge and uh, she's filming a whole bunch of stuff She's she's just an awesome person and I loved speaking with her So check out the lpn show this week and of course all the other shows here Yeah, buddy, and if you want to help support all the other shows at us Check out last podcast merch.com go look at our new pre-order for a fan art shirt I love this shit. This is it's our hellish rebuke shirt that was created by alexandra runyan Her on her her instagram is a la yalta, which is al la y al to

It is I think it's fun as hell And help us support go check out her work. Go check out the the website It's it's so cool to have such talented fans. Absolutely hellish rebuke to 2020 And also don't forget to go check out no dogs in space part one of the cramps is out So you can go find that wherever podcasts are available and the thing you are I also want to bring up the patreon and if you really if you give to the patreon We've been doing this new discord thing that the kids do Where you get to sit with us with the children though and we're doing what the children do

I like to play are you texting with minors? No, I would never text a minor I don't want them to have my phone number because then they abuse it I would but well be on discord. I think I'll be on there today And we're going to do once a month all of us one of us hosts the discord chat So you'd be able to sit there. Well, we are there captive to whatever your whims are. Absolutely Thank you all so much for supporting our patreon. We have a in interview out I believe that just came out recently this week and we just absolutely love doing the chit chat with all the people of the

Hero normal and horror community. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for listening Hope you're doing it as well as you possibly can be in these interesting times. Never forget. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan Helgi maghustalations everybody. Hell me and hey, um Killin people's not gonna stop the earthquake. I'm gonna say this right now if you're feeling that it's not gonna stop the earthquake But you know what could magnets Magnets and gain some weight hold hands. Keep the earth flat. I agree This show is made possible by listeners like you

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