Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 422: The 1971 Manson Family Western Surplus Shootout

Episode Date: September 5, 2020

This week, we recount the bizarre scheme by the Manson family to save Charles Manson from prison and the famous shootout that ensued between the would-be rescue party and the Hawthorne police department.Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

Hi everybody, I'm Sina Ghaznavi and my co-host Justin Williams and I are working with the team from last podcast of the left to launch a new show called Fraudsters. That's right, we're like the hall of shame for scammers. This season we'll show you the future with Ms. Cleo. Call me now for your free reading. We've got Ponzi schemes, we've got crypto fraud, we've got catfishing. This will be a perfect podcast, 100% guaranteed or your money back. Sina, I think it's free. Oh, that's right. Fraudsters starting next week. Listen for free only on Spotify. There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk.

On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Do you remember that? No, I don't actually. So happy together. Yeah, the turtles, isn't it? No, I know that.

This is why the 60s and 70s created so many serial killers because you can see someone cleaning the gun, listening to that and smiling. And just like having a picture of Nixon that they stare at all the time. Fucking song telling me I'm in love. I hate love. Did you guys have to do that in elementary school? Every year, they put together like a pageant where we had to do a giant choreograph dance to that song. And it was always like kind of loaded because you always wondered which girl was I going to be paired up with this year. Oh, my.

And it was always like high elementary school drama because relationships were made, relationships were broken. Sure. Just within the choreography of that. And me, you know, the whole time I'm like, oh God, I sure hope the jewel is the one I could pay with because last time it was Dumpy Stephanie. And then all of a sudden I'm back with Stephanie because Stephanie and I have the same gaze. Dumpy Stephanie. Well, I would love to hear what she has to say about you, Mr. Sobrowski. You weren't exactly a Romeo. I think she might have died in 9-11.

Well, that's why she's a hero, not just for dancing with you, for also working in finance. Welcome to the last podcast on the Left, everyone. I am Ben with Henry and Marcus. Hello. Today, why are we talking about Age of Aquarius? No, why are we talking about the turtles? Perfect. That was what I used to sing in high school or in middle school, it was Age of Aquarius.

We're the age of Aquarius. Age of Aquarius. Aquarius. We went square dancing. All right. So today we're going to be talking about, why are we talking about songs from the early 70s? That's what I'm trying to say. Today we're going to be talking about the 1971 Manson family, Western surplus shootout.

That's right, this Manson family, they didn't just rob a baby from Sharon Tate, which was horrible. They also robbed, apparently, a gun store. I'll tell you what, the shootout bullets were the only thing we were shooting out, the Manson family. You know what I'm talking about? I don't. You were having sex with each other. You were having sex with each other. No, and you got to say it right, the 1971 Manson family, Western surplus shootout.

All in all this 1971, that was the last time the Milwaukee Bucks won an NBA championship. They're currently in the East right now going against the Miami Heat. It's quite a doozy if you wanted to know that aspect of what I'm bringing to the show today. More cis-het propaganda to start our show. Now one thing that sometimes gets overlooked in the story of Charles Manson is that the members of the cult who went to jail for the Tate-LaBianca murders were not the only followers of Charles Manson. They were A-Team. So he had like splinter cells, he had splinter groups, that's how powerful Manson was. It wasn't necessarily splinter groups, it's just that the cult was a lot larger than the, you know, I think five-some-odd people who actually went and committed the murders.

At one point Manson had almost a hundred followers. I mean, loosely, at that point, that was when he was having big get-togethers, so he'd have parties and so it would kind of wax and wane the size of the cult. By this point, it was like 25 hardcore members deep. Well, yeah, because you can't just throw a pot luck and then say that you are a cult leader and all of these people are your cult followers. They're just bringing macaroni and cheese. Amen, if they're out there eating my cult stew, you have become an adjacent, you're at least cult-adjacent. What could a meat, what could a meat would you put in a cult stew? Rabbit.

That makes sense, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, there were actual celebrities involved with Charles Manson's cult. Like, don't forget that Dennis Wilson, the drummer from the fucking Beach Boys, was a staunt, I mean, you wouldn't necessarily call him a member, he was more a cult buddy for a long time, but it still gave Manson a lot of credit. Use a benefactor, because they would go live in his shitty house until finally they got sick of them being inside of his fucking mansion. I get it. And then Charlie waved a knife at him. That'll do it. Besides Tex, Leslie, Susan, Big Patty and the rest, there was a whole cast of what John Waters calls in his book, Role Models, the B-teamers that were highly active in Los Angeles both during and after Manson's trial.

Besides just their courtroom antics, which everyone knows about. Just once, I wish they would call me Patty. Not me, Patty. It's not even, honestly, I'm gonna say it's not even a negative thing. I love how much Patty there is for us to have. You love, you love Big Patty? I, I, I appreciate Big Patty. You, you appreciate Big Patty?

Yes, now, can I please, please hand the pizzas to the rest of the party? You appreciate Big Patty? Oh my God, even your tears are huge. Yeah, the John Waters book, Role Models is fucking great. Came out in like 2010. There's a whole chapter, a whole essay about his friendship with Leslie Van Halten. So anyone who's like interested in the Manson family like John Waters is a mini historian because he attended a lot of the trials at the time because he was just fascinated with it. Yeah, so this story comes from his book Role Models and then the, there's a great documentary that I forgot came out in 2018 called Manson the Lost Tapes, where their footage was shot while Manson was in court.

They went to go speak to essentially what was left of the B team. It was a documentarian by the name of Robert Hendrickson, who they found all of this bullshit. This footage had went missing and it's fascinating because it's within the cult and this didn't come out when we had done our original series and just watching the fucking, the bush hair dance. What is it with people when they're doing something like dancing around with their bush hairs blowing in the wind where they're thinking someone's got to get a camera on this. We better document this. Why isn't always that case? Even though Manson was in jail and guaranteed to die there, the B teamers of the squad still believed that there would come a day when they would be reunited with Charlie. And in 1971, six Manson followers tried to jumpstart the dream. So would you describe them as like the X-Force?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, X-Force, X-Factor at best. Anyway, it's the 99 cent store of toys. When you go in and you're like, I want a wrestling figure and then you just get the generic one that has a lucha mask and your mom is like, pretend it's Stone Cold Steve Austin and you have to. Oh, you mean single father Christmas? Yay, it's still Christmas somewhere. Loved by Kenneth Como, aka Curly, this ragtag group of hippies, some new to the family and some OG, they developed a plan to break out Charles Manson and presumably take him to the hole in Death Valley to wait out the race war. Manson was so sure was coming. Alright, I have 15 pounds of butter. What do you think we can do with this to get Charlie out of there? Okay, I got an idea. Alright, listen, you get that butter. First thing to do, we make a series of shrimp scampi's for the girls. Listen, they will be so consumed by the Italian flavors and they're so overwhelmed by the cholesterol in their system.

They will go to sleep and then I, I turn into water like Alex Mack. I can do that. I haven't told anybody that I can do that. Yeah, let me show you. Let me go. Oh, I'm just, I'm just pissing. Yeah, you're pissing all over the place. Curly was actually new to the Manson family because Curly's first allegiance was to the Aryan Brotherhood, the group of white supremacists who were essentially a prison gang. See, Manson had glommed on to the A.B. in prison for protection after he realized the judo he'd been practicing in his cell wasn't going to fend off the legions of prisoners who wanted a shot at the man who'd ordered the death of a beautiful pregnant movie star. You know what they say is that in judo you're supposed to use their weight against them, right? You use their weight to trap them, but honestly a lot of these guys don't like being called Biggie Boy. I can imagine him in his fucking cell. Coming from that street. Oh next thing you know, oh is that his feet? Oh, it's tough for shoulders. No picture sir hand sir hand being like, I wish the bullet would have hit me.

Well, as such, Charlie declared his allegiance to the A.B. with his now famous forehead swastika. I'm on so I'm not uncomfortable, but I'm starting to get a little worried about your turning the Aryan brotherhood into an acronym Only just because it just slowly it's just rolling off the tongue. So we just put it in B You know I got tired of writing area of typing up a Aryan brotherhood over and over again But the Aryan brotherhood wasn't offering Manson protection out of the kindness of their hearts What I always always wondered this myself. What the fuck did the Aryan brotherhood get out of protecting Charles Manson? But the lost tapes has an interview with his cellmate from 1961 to 1967 and this guy basically says Charlie first became popular in prison because of how fun it was to beat him up and make fun of him

People would take turns bullying him almost to the point where they had an agreement Amongst each other I've been like hey, hey doing dead Texas. You getting Charlie today. Yep And I'm gonna take this whole chunk of soap and put it inside of him call him a shower. Oh my goodness That's not where soap belongs unless you're dirty when in exchange for protecting his tiny body Manson gave the Aryan brotherhood on the outside free sexual access to female Manson followers and Nude photos of those same followers to the a b members that were still incarcerated I don't think he had the right to do that. No, no, but that's but that is how strong of it

I mean that shows you how strong of a hold Manson still had on his followers when he was still in prison Even after he was sentenced to death Geez they were exercising a sort of willful ignorance because they reached a crossroads in their belief once Charlie went to prison because our I'm still in our school of thought where Charlie Manson was not like a great leader He just was a he was the leader that they got and that they decided to attach themselves to because a lot of them Also were not maybe the most impressive group of Americans that ever existed I think that's fair to say yeah, but Charles Manson when they at this point had been telling them

I'm the new coming of Jesus Christ, you know, like he'd stand out and be like see Do these sort of presentations so there was a moment where they're like if Charlie is magic This is when he'll do it. That's a big if Yes, okay now curly the Aryan brotherhood member He joined the Manson family in earnest when he escaped from jail in late July during a somewhat clever ruse See curly had been called to testify on Manson's behalf in the trial concerning the murder of Shorty Shay Who was a ranch hand at spawn ranch whom Tex Watson and Steve Grogan had killed because Manson thought Shorty was a snitch Never good when the Aryan brotherhood is there to take the defense stand for you. Yeah, that is like I don't know if you're gonna win there

I am not going to give a member of the AB is Marcus. So cool No, no coolin out with a baby I am not gonna give one of their phone numbers like if I need reference like for work. No, I don't think so But before curly testified he escaped from jail and hid out amongst the Manson family Now as we know the Manson family would was not made up of the brightest minds of the late 60s and None of them were career criminals. These are all just fucking hippies I mean with the amount of acid they were taking I think their minds may have been bright Like I don't know if like another not smart, but I think there was like a brightness. There was a phosphorescence. Yes

Yeah, yeah, they're definitely a bio luminescence coming out of them just from the sheer amount of LSD Yeah, well, I mean the amount of LSD that they took them cannot be overstated because these people were on LSD leading up to the murders for months at a time They were never sober. In fact, this is something that I read in in John Waters essay that I didn't know before in the middle of Murdering Sharon Tate and everyone else at that house Tex Watson stopped and looked in the mirror trying to remember his name Trying to remember who he was. He could not remember it. It's a state in my What is this accent is it

Massachusetts is it Massachusetts is my name Massachusetts That seems long for a nickname my first my first name is shorter than that Curly on the other hand was a criminal through and through and seen as how he already had quite a bit of gang experience He soon became the leader of the Manson family on the outside as soon as he get the Manson family came in He took control of that fucking ragtag group of hippies and turned them into a criminal enterprise So anyone who is Under the age of 82 that is a three stooge's reference. You don't know that reference kids What's going on with these fucking zoomers you can scream into the abyss all you want, but they may not

But you know it instead of just kind of taking them off to do whatever Curly wanted to do Curly actually kept to his word and they all began planning a scheme to free Charlie Whoo now by this point Manson and his cohorts had already been sentenced to death for the Tate LaBianca murders But as I mentioned the trial of the murder of Shorty Shay was ongoing And there was still the trial for the murder of musician Gary Hinman After that oh during the lost tapes that was all films while the trial was going on and seeing the sort of their selective memory because It's interesting to watch the b-team react because they were not chosen to be part of the a team for a reason The this

Leftovers just like the show and they're all these guys are just the ugliest men I've ever seen all of them Clem is Clem looks like a human fucking jack-o-lantern and the other guy One of the guys has one of those mustaches. That's the must that he's completely bald up top But he's got the back hair, but he's got a mustache that connects into his sideburns into the back hair So essentially he has a lasso of hair that goes underneath his nose And by the way, Clem Grogan his nickname was scramble head Ramblin head you don't trust scramble head with any sort of direction No, man, you should never be a euphemism for an omelet

But they all were explaining because they all The interviewer was asking them like how'd you feel about the fact that they killed a pregnant woman and they would do this Reaction where each woman be like at first. I was like hmm, but then I was like it's all groovy Blood's groovy and it's just one baby isn't in a million babies You just have another baby and you make another baby. They can't have another baby though She's very dead, but one of them was like well Charlie told me that the soul of that baby went into my baby and I had that baby And then the interviewer was like so tell me where is this your what is your current baby? She's like

Is that baby? They gotta find the baby. Yeah, I think of the baby that was taken away. I think the baby's name was Tim Tamm Or something similar clip clap. It's a fun name for a baby Tim Tamm Yeah, and there were a lot of murders around the Tate La Bianca murders like the Gary Henneman murder That was before the the tape murders even began and the shorty shea murder was after the Tate La Bianca murders because the spawn ranch had gotten raided and Charles Manson had blamed shorty shea for this and shorty shea was just a dude who Hung he was a stuntman. He was kind of like, you know Brad Pitt's character and once upon a time in Hollywood Yeah, I would imagine Brad Pitt's characters loosely based on shorty shea

I can't believe how many I mean obviously it's not like good stuff, but they got a lot of stuff done with a brain full of acid I mean, they were definitely very busy. Yeah, but not to completion They got a lot of stuff halfway done. They got the dune buggy sure, but Anybody can get a dune buggy if you find one. That's true Well since Manson was required to be present at the trial the murder of shorty shea. He was in jail Not prison. Oh, so there was no better time to try and spring the family's tiny Messiah The only question was how to do it Now I read a few different accounts of what their actual plan was, but it seems like there were three possibilities

In the original plan Curly was supposed to somehow Abscond with the most wanted man in America during Curly's prison transfer and the two of them would scamper away together Oh wait, hold on. What is that? What is this grand idea? Curly was gonna go in start a food fight With all the guards duck as the head guard get hits with a cake and then they were gonna go then they were just gonna go Okay Yeah, there was a that was the plans like you know Curly We're what we're gonna do is we're gonna say that you've got some evidence in Charlie's favor on shorty shea's trial that you're gonna testify for Charlie

But you don't have anything to say for Charlie and what you're gonna do is when they transfer you you're gonna get away You're gonna find Charlie and you're gonna run away with them seems like the hard part is everything Yep, because you got to get away. That's just the idea. That's what they wanted to do They just did yada yada yada Charlie's back on spawn ranch eating me out. Okay Got it. Well, I mean Curly did manage to escape. I mean he got the first half of his plan done He got out of there, but he just you know, he decided it's not the right time to try and spring Charlie You had to go back to jail

Very difficult It's very difficult Trying to keep them there. Yep, and you're just you just got a brain full of acid You got the spotlight. They catch you on the wall. You go you freeze. You know what I mean? You're wearing a striped suit It's difficult to walk around like that They don't have the kind of fashions in the 70s that we have now Well, you got to get one guy to dress up like a sexy Bugs Bunny

Scamper around the yard distract all the guards next thing, you know, everyone's out at the back door But guess what man by 1965 they had already made all guards completely immune to sexy bunny men in dresses because they just like they would do a program where they would have each one This is true and they would bring in young live twink men dressed as bunnies in sling dresses and the cops were just beat off at them So much just so they became numb to the idea of fucking them. Maybe they could do it faster too then Yeah, and hold the gun on you while fucking them. Wow I would like to meet I would like to meet the warden of that jail Well since Curly scampered to the family alone. There were two other options. Okay

One was to just storm the courthouse with guns during the trial and run off with Manson tucked under their arm That honestly to be of all of the plans is kind of weirdly doable if you show up in force He can also fit inside of a little FedEx box Yeah And you can very easily abscond with them if you could keep them from struggling. That's very active dress them up like normal Put them in a box and them to Abu Dhabi Perfect the more likely plan though, which was also the one most unlikely to work was to hijack a 747 passenger jet and kill one passenger every hour until Manson and the rest of the family were released from custody

permanently these are these are acid ideas This whiteboard is the dumbest whiteboard that's ever been drawn on all right, you know I and there is a third plan here. We were first time using the powers of Superman We go back to before the crimes and we all move to Florida That's a great idea. That's what they should have done Well while the Manson family that was still on the outside definitely had small arms those plans Required heavy firepower. You're not gonna hijack a 747 with a fucking pistol. No, no not anymore Definitely not not since 9-11

So led by Curly the B-teamers decided to rob a gun store to increase their arsenal But before they even robbed the gun store they robbed a beer that robbed a liquor store and made away with $2,000 so they could buy a van to get away. Now. Why didn't they just buy the guns? I? Thought about that. That was also my first thought It seems easier to steal a van than it does steal a bunch of guns because you got a break into a store full of guns Yeah, but they get guns, but the guns are like asking to be stolen in a way Hmm, you know, I mean the adventure think about the adventure kissle. Yeah, I just think you can get a call to action

Story of a hero. No, I love the idea of stealing some of it Venture of course the chip of betelus Venge inside the old city Vans are littered everywhere. It's 1970 and people of the keys in the above. Yes, we can get a van. Too easy Well as far as the crew went five members of the Manson family were drafted besides Curly Right alongside Curly was Catherine Cher aka Gypsy who had joined the Manson family at the age of 15 in 1967 never trust anybody that could be played by Leah Dunham in a movie

They never should have the gun next to you. They should not Well prior to joining the Mansons Gypsy had been a singer who cut some fair-to-middling singles under the name Charity Shane They're okay. They're kind of like Mama Cass does Bob Dylan But it's she's got a nice voice. It's not as great as you think it be There was a couple of group sing-alongs in the Lost Tapes that they show that actually shows not only were they surprisingly like Sweet sounding, but they did harmonies. Yeah, and that takes fucking rehearsal Yeah, of course, that's all they did like when they were around Charlie like they were a group

They knew what the fuck they were doing Gypsy. Well, actually she had better than a nice voice She had a beautiful voice that a lot of her stuff under the name Charity Shane is available over on YouTube It's cool shit. Some of it is also a little bit like Nancy Sinatra But Charity moved to Spawn Ranch after meeting some time Manson family member Bobby Busier on the set of a soft core pornographic film called the Ramrotter. Hmm. All right. It can't be soft core if it's called the Ramrotter Everyone doesn't have an erection. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, Ramrotter sounds like you're just trying to fold up a super long penis That's very very soft inside of someone, but yeah, you shouldn't name a soft core Porn anything with Ram and Ram

Unless it's like Romancing the Ram or the Ram the Ram mysteries of Sheboygan Man, one of my favorite porno's is the Ram mysteries of Sheboygan There's a butt scene that is just incredible. You don't even know if it's a man or a woman's and they all wake up And it turns out they were all inside the butt. Isn't that something special? Isn't that how they ended the TV show lost? I remember there was a smoke monster and a big fat guy. Yeah, I do remember that I liked him Now Gypsy wasn't involved in the Tate-La-Bianca murders at all, but she was a believer and she testified in Manson's trial That the real mastermind of the whole thing was fellow family member Linda Kassabian and not Charlie

They tried to absolve Charlie of any Responsibility whatsoever. Charlie didn't know about any of this text and all them went out because Linda told him to and of course It didn't fucking work. Linda's had been pulling this country together for a long time and being accused of crimes as well I think Linda's are strong Linda's are brave and I love a good Linda. No, believe me. Good Linda too. My mother Linda She got pulled over by a cop the other day because she um she ran a red light and But the way she did it It was like a soft right turn through the red light and she was like and I told that bastard

He pulled me over and he said oh, oh you just hesitated the red light and it was like oh, I should hesitate before I knock you Across the chops mom cops are more aggressive than they've ever been before right now. I can't have you be a statistic Man Linda is gonna get shot by the place What a way for Mazza Browski to go out The gypsy was also involved in the intimidation of family member and witness Barbara Hoyt because gypsy Participated in a plot to permanently freak Barbara out with an LSD soaked hamburger Now that's a hell of a burger Barbara Hoyt was going to testify against Manson in the trial right right and so at first They were like okay

What we'll do is we'll lure her to Hawaii right in order to make sure she's not on the stand to in order to testify How are they gonna get to Hawaii? They don't have money for guns. They said hey, man, couldn't you get Hawaii? There's boy, and she's just like oh cool soft food. That's not hummus, and it's not chilly And I don't know what the hell it is cool But they didn't understand that not only do planes go into Hawaii planes also just leave Hawaii as well So she got to Hawaii, and they're like gotcha, and she's like I'll just go back on a plane and go back to America I'll go back to the continental states, and they were like right what the fuck do we do so they covered a burger and LSD to poison her instead

She developed the start of the smartphone. Well at this point in family history gypsy was oh and two on saving Manson So she figured the 747 plan was her best shot And besides she'd also fallen in love with Curly during the planning of the scheme, and she'd married him So she was down for whatever Curly was down for as well when Curly says this is the plan She says fucking great. That's what you got to do add complex emotions into it Getting married is always such a great idea because it's permanent Yes, and there's it's really hard to get out of it perfect. You're legally bound to that person awesome Curly and gypsy were joined by Dennis Rice who had worked nights at an adult bookstore before joining the family in

1970 after the Tate Lobbionka murders had already happened They were gaining members Satter experience working days at the adult bookstore or nights at the adult bookstore If you're working nights at the adult bookstore, they don't think that you should be seen by customers during the day Yeah, so I think that's when you get that's when they get kind of the hardcore stuff back in the day Yeah, I would say working days is sadder because at night at least you get people who have jobs because they had to work Good point. Yeah during the days you have guys using it like a fucking library Can I ask Marcus do you know anything about the mechanisms that Charles Manson used to get them their

Directions like I was trying to look it up It was it was this guy it was rice rice was the one who ran messages back and forth because since rice had joined in 1970 after the murders he was completely clean He had no connection to the murders or any of their previous crimes whatsoever So he was able to visit Charles Manson and Charles Manson would give the messages to Dennis Rice and Dennis Rice Would take them back to the family now the jester has his home But sometimes the jester's home is occupied by the jester's father and what does that tell one when one deeply thinks about jester's Kings Queens dukes

He's taken all of these messages in like I just hope he tells me like a location or a Time or something for any of these I think these are directions This might be a song that he's writing in front of me Or I said that he thought Charles Manson was the second coming of Christ and since earth hadn't treated Jesus all that well the first time Maybe Dennis could do better this time around. Oh, yeah, man. He's gonna fix Jesus's bull shit What was it about Charlie again? Was there anything tangentially tied to Christianity? There wasn't though, right? Like he never talked about anything with Jesus or anything from what I can surmise a lot of it was just him

Biting time until he could get his boner back. I say Most of his philosophy was not in any way shape or form structured because even the B team in the lost tapes They all asked direct questions about Charlie's philosophy and none of them have a fucking answer that is worth Anything that's how you do it. They're all like because One the main interview is like tell me they believed that Charles Manson believes that he is the new coming of Jesus Christ And you know one girl's like he's never said it dead on but he's really led us to a lot of making that decision for him for him What does it even mean? He also had like so many subtle ways of convincing these people

To join his cult and to do whatever he wanted to do a lot of it was actually in his music I mean, I've been listening to a lot more of Manson's album recently great song like specifically like home is where you're happy Which is I mean, it's a very catchy song because that's the things that Manson songs are very catchy But the bridge of the song is that burn all your bridges leave your old life behind You can do all you want to do because you're strong in your mind Okay, Marcus, so you're dabbling with a gore phobia right now Um, do you feel like no, I'm not I'm actually doing great. I know I know I know you're doing great But you're it's a pandemic, you know have a thousand a while you're listening to the b-sides of Charles Manson

Listening I'm learning how to play them on guitar my friend. Okay. Okay, so it's constructive Is that is I think it's constructive technically right now with helping the show after this episode, yeah That's where we're gonna hit this or like problem like areas, right, but we've already been here before He has been through this to Charles Manson. He had some of his music had some good bones He's listening to Charles Manson specifically the song home is where you're happy on loop. Well, not leaving his house He's learning the song. I'll leave my house twice a day to go walk the dog He's gotta go yell at people to show him his new tambourine

It's funny you say that because the man the b-team talks about the music as being a major hinge because they were all super into I forget what the term is. There is a There is a pheromone. There's a I don't know what the term is fucking me. It's not a pheromone. It's like a protein It's something that comes out when in group activity But it's the idea of the people come together doing group activities and they feel good doing it And so the big thing that they were super into was the group sing-alongs and Charlie used to do them all Throw them all the time and it was how they kind of all got together and it would precede and

Succeed their orgies and those things that they do at night And it seems like even the songs within the group got mixed reviews because one of the long hairs that's in the documentary It's like, you know, man, so much Charlie's hits man. They really got that flow, man You know, some of them need some work, but all the ones are just a really good and you're like, man No, that's good constructive criticism. All artists need good constructive criticism Yeah, I mean, there's not a whole lot of genius to garbage dump garbage dump. Why do they call you a garbage dump garbage dump? Oh garbage dump that sums it up in what big lump. That's not If you think about the garbage dump garbage lump, I mean, that's great

I think it's very smart. You can imagine what's in the garbage. Well, it was his song about dumpster diving because that's how the Manson family survived Just like Joe Exotic and his motley crew of heroes. He fed an entire zoo audience meat for the dumpster and they loved it I was just thinking about that the other day. It was funny. Well joining Curly, Gypsy, and Dennis Rice were Lawrence Giddings aka Little Larry and Chuck Love It aka Chuckleberry plus two others Chuckleberry is kind of a fun name. They would all get their Nicknames after they did the death ceremony So he would give them all acid and he's like, okay, imagine you're in the casket. Oh, it's cold

There's all sorts of dirt outside the casket, right? What's in there? Is it worms? Is it spiders? It's a nice casket It's just kind of a pillow But you start he starts taking you through and then you die. He's like, all right, you're dead You're fucking dead, you know Jesus and then you're alive and I'm Chuckleberry now Unfortunately, yes, that is your nickname. It's the first one I come up with and unfortunately I do not do second drafts sounds like a children's sugary cereal. That's what you are Well, it's better than waking up from a big ceremony and having Charles Manson go oh your scramble head now That is tough to say because scramble head you do have credence to just run around like a maniac

Randomly kicking people in the shins. Scramble head sounds like a children's Cenobite Well once the crew was established they loaded up in a van and headed to the Western surplus gun store and Hawthorne, California Now as I said Manson family were flush with small arms So they stormed the gun store and held up both the staff and a couple of customers while they gathered and loaded a 140 rifles into their van for their upcoming hijacking scheme Wow, you want to put a lock on those guns like one of those like a string or something just Anything just top people from just stealing them off the walls. They just do it. Well, honestly, I think I think what this was really about I don't think that Curley had any intention whatsoever of breaking Manson from jail by how many rifles they stole

140 rifles this was a job for the Aryan brotherhood like this was for this was for the fucking gang that Curley was actually a part of and he was just using these dumb fucking hippies to get the guns. It's a hundred and forty guns Yeah, they're not gonna do anything and then he knows that he can then have the Aryan brotherhood the members that are out of jail He can come and essentially just take over this group and have their essentially sex kittens attached to it already Like that's what what he wanted I you could see him project that onto his group of like I have this whole group of like willing females because it was like met It's it's all it, you know It's weird how there's no real like trust amongst thieves

Very true But this being a fucking gun store someone tripped the silent alarm and since Western surplus was one of those stores That didn't call the cops unless something had gone terribly wrong an officer was soon on the scene and the shootout began This is fun. This is the closest this story I feel like this should have been in the fucking ones upon the time of Hollywood It's fucking crazy. No, this is a full like this seems like the climax to a wacky caper comedy So just one tubby officer showed up and was just okay. I've got a deal with this now Well, because it's true like it they put several articles

I read talked about how this place was so like hands off to the cops like they did not like cops This store the fact that they called they were like, oh shit something's really going down. They don't call us Okay Yeah, well officers Jim McInerney and Kenny Cox were the first on the scene and both took positions on either side of the Front window of the store while Lieutenant James Jarvis covered the back alley where he was soon joined by two more officers So almost immediately there are five police officers there waiting to take the Maddison's down They are fucking surrounded Once family members saw the cops out front. They tried the alley out back and seeing cops out there, too

They busted open the door and unloaded a shotgun into one of the cop cars Shattering the passenger side window. Yeah, the guy was in there. He would have he would have been exploded Yikes as the officers out front ran to the back the family continued firing at the police car Demolishing the emergency lights on top. Just as officer Cox opened fire with his service revolver Now the family did make it to their van amidst a hail of bullets But just as they were about to drive off with gypsy behind the wheel Officer McInerney unloaded his service revolver into the driver's side window And when he ran out of ammo a helpful neighbor ran down from his apartment and brought more

He just had ammo 38 Cal. Yeah, he got a quip. That's like a video game You got it by the 38 Cal plant and you get you get ammo every day Now at this point the cops figured it was time for more firepower So they grabbed a shotgun from their car walked over to the van Stuck the barrel in the window and fired indiscriminately Before yelling at everyone inside to exit the vehicle. See I would have taken the shotgun blasts like hey We should leave. Yeah, you would think so. We should get out of you They then opened the driver's side door and out tumbled gypsy

Riddled with buckshot and all she could manage was a weak apology before the cops cuffed her. I'm fucking sorry, man I'm sorry, dude because this must have been a shell shock for these people I think so they they all talk about the especially the original crimes a table of Bianca murders The way they all kind of considered it. They thought it was fantasy first of all Yeah, because they were getting used to this hippie lifestyle living all together You know that you know Protoversion of veganism where they were living off of the grocery stores and and people's help and various kind of benefactors It would come in whoever that's the idea was to attract people that had stuff right bring to the family

So they would have it so on some level They kind of thought that Manson's all of his bullshit about the race war would kind of just pass I think or that it would just cause them to live deeper in the desert So they kind of all were like we didn't think that those crimes were ever going to happen the B team Always assumed that that was just kind of bullshit and then all of a sudden now they're in their middle of a fucking Old West style raid Again, and they are not hardened criminals. They are not good at this Oh, just living like Dick Cheney's best friend who he took hunting shot in the face. I mean, this is this is horrible for this

I mean, obviously they they they caused the they caused the chaos. I guess yeah, I mean they started it But that what's amazing to me about this is like imagining being a citizen in Los Angeles in 1971 and like the Manson fat like the Manson murders are the scariest thing that ever happened to Los Angeles and All of a sudden Manson family followers are in shootouts with the cops on the street That's just a part of your everyday fucking life I can't imagine what was like to experience that yeah, like there's more of them There's more Manson family like holy shit Did he really have an army because it also boosters Manson's view of the public of him where they were like

Oh, he really was the you know a bearded Sven golly. How many times you have to hear that term They all call him a beard like and also calling him Charlie was interesting He only became Charles Manson as he became more and more Serious and a serious villain where originally he was kind of more of a goofy guy, right? Especially with all the antics and shit, but this showed it was like is he a tiny general? Yeah, that's like when you go back to your 15 year high school reunion and you're like I'm not Charlie anymore My name is Charles and I work for the FBI and then they're like wow you're professional

You know like you got he got to become a pro level evil maniacal mastermind And I forgot he did his spiel of being like that's why I'm that's how you know I'm the new Jesus because Manson. I'm the son of man Jesus Christ is the ultimate son of man man son That's me Does anybody else cat like that look out time? I believe it well back to the shootout as Gypsy was being handcuffed the back door of the van suddenly opened and the rest of the Manson hippies Took off down the alley on foot

After a few more shots were fired though the family knew they were done So they just gave up and were arrested The only one who got away was chuckleberry who had hidden underneath a car when the shooting started and had run away during the Firefight while the cops were otherwise occupied That's chuckleberry for you. He's always hiding. He was captured a few days later though. He didn't stay on the run for long Now none of the cops had even come close to being hit But three Manson family members had been shot in the gun battle with wounds ranging from a pellet-filled shoulder To a shattered kneecap. It's got to be so fulfilling to shoot a member of the fans of the Manson family

It's got to be so much fun to just plug because you know all these cops wanted to do shoot the hippies anyway You know you get to shoot a violent one. That's gotta be fun It was however pretty obvious to police that they'd arrested Manson family members because at least two of the robbers Including Gypsy had the tell tale exes carved into their foreheads That's signified one as a follower of Charles Manson, man. They really must have fucking regretted that That's a little on is she a gypsy eventually got plastic surgery to have it removed. Oh, no kidding. You can just do that Yeah, I guess it's difficult to like join a quilt group Once you have a swapsica tattoo to your forehead

Yeah, I suppose so a lot of these Soundclawed rappers are gonna be doing that soon Getting surgery to get rid of all those face tattoos Especially cuz Takashi fucking six nines and witness protection is his names on his forehead Yeah, I work out for that kid now Of course all members in the Manson family that were arrested in this scheme tried to defend themselves in trial But all were denied Net don't let them. No, absolutely not. I think they might be able to talk their way out of this especially chuckleberry They're probably did they all look at each other when the third one's being like man, I'm gonna defend myself

Man, I know how to do that. They all look at each other and go, you know what? You know what the thing is chuckleberry. You're too groovy. Yeah What you're just too with it man. You're too spaced out man You're too fucking on the fucking ball, dude. You know what I'm saying? You're right, man I am too fucking chilled out malaxed out full-on serpentine Doesn't seem like it. No, you just robbed a gun store. Yeah, it wasn't just a bad afternoon, man Even so the defense who was representing all of them once in one trial made a huge mistake and calling one of the most Unpredictable people on the planet to the stand

He called Charlie Hell yeah, buddy did he must have known this was gonna be good for his own Like fame there's this lawyer He must have known well the play had been not guilty by reason of insanity and the defense attorney figured that if he could get Charlie to admit that all of these hippies had acted under Manson's direction and influence It could be proved that they didn't know right from wrong during the robbery hence the insanity defense But Charlie true to his character refused to cooperate and instead said hell. Yeah, they knew right from wrong send him to jail That's the Charlie I remember totally unpredictable with no loyalty at all

But Manson wasn't the only one called to the stand According to John Waters who attended the pre-trial hearing each Manson family member on death row was called to the stand in what Amounted to a bizarre reunion, and it was actually the last time all the Manson family members were together in one place Ladies gentlemen put your hands together for squeaky from you guys know They're gonna get Rachel out here whoa, and and what's Rachel and what's the other guy from friends Chandler? I wanted to say spindler when the family was all in one place the first time and well over a year and the last time ever They all started chanting and spoke to each other in a nonsensical Manson language that only they Understood until the court was finally brought back under control

This is before The news was like like wanting to just entertain us and destroy all credibility and destroy any objective truth So at this time it's all very sober people watching all that they just let the circus out and all the going like Like just doing Charles Manson's scat at each other Finally being like you could tell it goes on for a couple minutes and then some conservative judge from 1971 is like What the Sam hell's going on here? What's going on here? Well the cool thing about this trial though and all of this bullshit You know that the Hawthorne shoot out and all that John Waters attended the pre-trial hearing and after seeing the Manson family

All together talking to each other in a bizarre language and seeing how they interacted with each other He immediately went home to Baltimore and wrote Pink Flamingos Wow inspiration, of course the inspiration for Pink Flamingos was the monster was the Manson family screaming at each other in a courtroom Of course that was it all makes sense. Also divine love divine I don't think she needed to eat the dog shit because they also real woman Real performer that's what it takes and I explained this to Natalie at some point I was like he was at the pre-trial and before even said it. She was like, oh my god That's where Pink Flamingos comes from and I was like, yeah

You know they made that they kept on feeding the dog because the dog was constipated This is what I'm bringing to the show today The dog was constipated so they kept on feeding the dog and then finally it had a little poop They shouldn't have done that to the dog. That means who are the chicken for that matter Although I think they did eat the chicken. They ate the chicken. Yeah, and if you want some fun John Waters Manson family mix-up action multiple maniacs is on HBO Max. It's definitely worth a watch. It's fucking great Now, of course all of the chanting and nonsensical language and all that bullshit It didn't help the Manson family's case at all

No, jury very swiftly sent all of them the prison San Quentin for the men and the California Institute for Women for the ladies Just cut to one juror carving an X in their head is that all starts happening be like I think we got one I'm in. I'm in. I'm sold And the ladies actually joined Leslie Van Houten Susan Atkins and Patty Krimwinkel in a special unit that was just for Manson girls They had a great time that honestly must have been just fine. I think at some point They they must have enjoyed that lifestyle for a second. They like the answer to the attention

But I think as the years go. Yeah the shine wore off It did it but it did take years. It took absolutely took years upon years for all of them to finally break free of the Charles Manson thing and finally admit like oh, maybe we fucked up Well most were released within five years and while a lot of them faded into history Some like Gypsy and Dennis Rice joined other Manson family acolytes like Tex Watson in becoming Born-again Christians and they still to this day speak of the evils of cults. I oh I always get my religious views from Tex Watson the man who gutted Sharon Tate. Yeah, but it's nothing like a religious get out of jail card to just make You smile again. Good lord. No tax. You're going to have I just want to tell tax. You're going to hell

If he's listening, I know he's not but no well there it is the 1971 shootout in Hawthorne at the gun store very creepy stuff. Mm-hmm. Yep, and again read read John Waters Rome Roll models. It's a really fun. It's a fun read and it's good for what else you're right now It's just fucking it's a great romp. It's a fun So wish they weren't violent because you know, it could have been fun for a second. We never would have heard of them No, they would have just died out in the desert of starvation This side trip into the world of Charles Manson, it's been a while since we've seen him

But guys, this is not the first little heavy hitter territory. We're gonna get into the summer of strange She's sadly over summer is gone. The fall begins. Yes, we're down. We're gonna hit some fucking Crazy topics over the next couple months. I'm very excited next week We're going right into heavy hitters and we've got some UFOs. We've got a cult series And all this shit coming your way very fucking excited as always excited to give you as much Edutainment as we possibly can. Thank you all so much for supporting. The show is here on the last podcast network Also, we have the big announcement about fraudsters. Please listen to fraudsters on Spotify Exclusively, Sena Ghasnavi and Justin Williams are putting together an incredibly

researched and funny show about financial crimes and they are doing things In a kind of more involved way where they are also interviewing people that are involved with a lot of these crimes and people that are victims of these crimes And so if you get to a real inside the bowl, look Yeah, and their first series is about mrs. Cleo. Miss Cleo. Mrs. Cleo. She she's not married Miss Cleo, excuse me. Ben, could you please call me now? And I would call her I know what call miss Cleo whenever I needed any kind of help or any kind of assistance But apparently you never really got miss Cleo, which is one of the reasons she is the main focus

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Keep on trucking and never forget hail yourselves Hail Satan Oh game Magustalations everyone Let's go rob a bank. No Oh, no, I don't think that we'd be good. I'd like to be a wheels man I'd be good at crowd control What am I supposed to do?

You're the decoy distraction. Yeah So I'm supposed to go take a dump. Who's robbing the bank? You're big enough. I'm gonna say this and this is not a slight against you But I think that you could probably take one or two bullets and live So you need to be first out and first in but who's robbing the bank carolina We're gonna get a carolina for that. All right. Yeah for the ladies Natalie would be a good tip How do ladies do it? We're the support team. Yeah, I'm just getting shot twice. That's your job You're an essential part of the team absorbing bullets for the other members of the team. What if they shot me in the head?

They shot you in the face That's dumb and dumber guys This show is made possible by listeners like you thanks to our ad sponsors You can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listened to go to last podcast network.com