Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 424: Arthur Shawcross Part II - Grandpa Mode

Episode Date: September 19, 2020

We end our series on Arthur Shawcross by detailing his second brutal killing spree — which leaves in its wake several dead Rochester sex workers — and his subsequent arrest and confession.Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk on the left That's when the cannibalism started Rochester Are you gonna do this right now? No, I just want to say because you have a lot of back peddling to do my friend I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be what's the term? What's that? Incredulously cruel to a wonderful people. I will say this I don't know Rochester very well some people are bombed about my representation of Rochester and I'll tell you what defended their hometown Today's episode is really gonna solidify

Rochester's a Reputation as a wonderful city. Um, but I will say I wanted to learn a little bit more people were people were saying Oh, you know, you don't know Rochester. You're right. Yeah, the closest thing we ever went to was Buffalo Where we had the saddest bar crawl of our entire tour great people though. They kept on kicking us out of the bars We weren't even yelling We were just normal, but I will say one thing I will say about Rochester You don't have to remind everyone at the top of any article about Rochester that there's more than one city in New York State Ah, we know that technically there are many cities. Yes. Yeah, Albany Buffalo, Rochester, but I like use

There are wonderful things in my neck. Did he Name a whole bunch of places. There's so many places to drink a pint of rum and not call your kids But Rochester number one. Do you know that it's known as flower city? Huh? I did not know that. Why is it? Because the holly is that the holly the holly-hock is that where they came arose in the early to mid 1800s when the town Boasted both a thriving mill industry and a profitable seed trade. I know you were trying to be nice But you seem condescending. No, no, this is this is the truth. You wouldn't believe it. Do you know who's from Rochester? Who? Susan B. Anthony. Wow Wow

That's amazing and I'm from Rochester, Texas There you go. All right, Rochester, Texas as one of the highest molestered a person like population density outside of Hollywood, Los Angeles In the 90s at least welcome to the last podcast on the left everyone I am Ben with Marcus and Henry, of course very good attempt at Sort of walking back the negativity that you spread towards the wonderful people of Rochester Mr. Zabrowski, there's so much the the effusive love for the garbage plate could only be replaced by the beloved White hot which is a German American German American residents of Rochester would see that these were invented with these were pork based hot dogs

They were invented during the 1920s as an economical alternative to the more expensive red ones There you go. Nothing wrong with that speaking of white hot We are on to part two of our series on man one of the worst scumbags We've ever come we've ever covered Arthur Shawcross. I I will say I've never felt so unbranded this week. I was sitting and watching a documentary on cannibals Well, I was scraping my grill. Yeah, I had my grill out like I had to scrape it all like you know I did a deep wash to get all the chunks that are kind of left from all the various just fucking experiments that I do on there It's interesting because the last time we were over you didn't have any propane in the gas

So we couldn't grill it all so because I was I've been grilled out I didn't know myself, but it's just like watching like you know watching just tick a chile going ha ha The steel cage while he's like throat showing his dick at people and like flopping his weird long horrible thing And you know and then me just scraping all the chunks off. I'm like, this is me Yeah, that's the suburban life your neighbors are horrified of now once Arthur was released from prison in 1987 after serving a term of 15 years after pleading guilty to manslaughter and the murder of two children Geez the parole board of New York State just didn't really know what to do with him. What do we do with this guy? Give him a white hot and get him a job

I got told that quite often in the very beginning of my acting career of how often times Well, I would sit in a room truly with like a trigger puller of some various entertainment establishment and they look at you and they literally it was like I I felt like a Cadillac auction you look at me and you literally go. What do we do with you? Uh-huh next thing, you know, I'm standing behind a potted plant and the guys is jerking off And he said I just wanted he called it jungle sniping. Oh my welcome to Watertown Well as far as the parole board was concerned Arthur Shaw Cross quote lacked emotional disturbance and Was in good contact with reality and in good control of his mental facilities

So they had a hard time understanding why nobody wanted a double child murder in their community Do you just have to be slightly dumber than a school bus driver to get on the parole board in Rochester? How the hell did they think? Okay, this is New York State parole board This is a state. Okay, this is overall like these are the people that are seeing all overseeing all federal crimes for parole Yes, you have to have one eye that can drift so far to the other side that it sees a whole other room Who gets let out, but I also wonder I there it seems like there's just a general stigma This just shows the institutionalized Stigma against people with mental disorders because I think that they truly do believe that if you are a

Cannibal and a child molester really really would be in a cage going like Not be like simple art Shaw Cross just sitting there and just been like Mistakes me I told him I didn't want him to be fishing and that's just a punishment that he got for being interested in worms And they're all like that makes sense. He's not yelling He's not eating a human right now during the parole hearing. So there's no way he's gonna reoffend Well first the parole board tried putting Arthur in Binghamton And even though he was ordered to stay away from playgrounds and other places where children might congregate the community still didn't necessarily Trust him. What does this guy got to do to get back?

Maybe you should start an ice cream truck that would be nice I bring a clown to your home service. That sounds very cool. But the problem with New York State was that they were Arresting and incarcerating so many people during their ongoing battle participating in the war on drugs Crack was New York specialty. They didn't really have time to keep tabs on child murderers So when Shaw Cross started missing meetings with his parole officer, they didn't notice What? Shaw Cross attacked a female acquaintance by grabbing her crotch and body slamming her Then stealing hundreds of dollars in property from her home The report got lost in the shuffle got too many drug offenses to deal with I just feel like that that was like that's like enough

I Feel that that's enough. That is enough. He's acting like Andy Kaufman, but without The difference between a performer and a sex offender, which is what I guess our Kelly got all like mixed up in his head Yeah, he did. Yes, indeed. Well, but the only thing the law cared about at this time was Arthur's $148 commissary bill from his time in prison. It's always about fucking you didn't pay the bill That's all that's like $4,700 Truly likes, you know, how long does it take to get a fucking cable guy at the house?

But I tell you what they call me three times a day looking for that cable box. I haven't brought back. Yeah I'm supposed to bring one back as well. I don't think that's gonna happen. Nope Now Arthur did come close to being arrested again for the grave offense of not paying his bill But his mother ended up taking care of it and Arthur remained free But even though the authorities weren't keeping an eye on Arthur the people of Binghamton were and after Arthur was seen Hanging around a park asking kids to go fishing just as he done with Jack Blake The townspeople chased him out with burning torches in the middle of the night like the monster He was this is such a fun opportunity for what to be able to be a part of a giant haranguing mob

Like yeah, are you reasonable? Not only do you get to be correct? Yeah, right? true Powerful righteous anger like of being out there and because this isn't just some fucking a bunch of incels with tiki torches Right people you are getting rid of Freddy Krueger You're chasing Freddy Krueger out of the neighborhood But you got to also understand this is for for anybody else about to join a haranguing mob If you set fire to the child molester He does come back more powerful and can kill you when you sleep technically Freddy was just a child killer. He never molested anybody

I know I know in defense and he was very funny I'm not defending Freddy Krueger. I'm just saying he was not a child molester. It was a child killer, right? But then he did have a sense of humor You're right, which it was compelling It really does a lot of a lot of people to get away with a lot of shit like that's our entire lives Mm-hmm and all the while Arthur was dragging around the person who would become his fourth wife Rose Marie Wally Who was described as a stout Mormon woman who rarely raised her voice above a mumble We really called her the rock of the family simply because her behavior and appearance was that of a giant boulder

I got it. I got it. Thank you Rose like many of Arthur's romantic conquest was older a motherly type who'd started writing letters to Arthur in prison Just before she divorced the old man. She was married to wait. What was the turn on the man killed? Okay? Let's just go backwards. He killed two children. Yes What was so this isn't even like the Ted Bundy? This isn't even someone who has any kind of charm Well, I remember why would he find love in prison? This is old art shot cross. So he doesn't quite look the way art shot cross He never looked good. This is he was about like in his late 30s early 40s Yeah, he didn't look fully like a character from a Pixar movie yet

Like he at this point like he looks he just had a very very weird head And I think that when we covered it with serial killers and the women who loved them in a previous episode, right? There's something just about this this fixer upper mentality of like maybe I can fix the monster Also, I'm scared of the monster But if I'm fucking the monster maybe then I'm personally safe from the monster It just seems strange given the crime of killing two children. Usually it's not It's not it doesn't create a fucking wet-ass pussy usually not once Arthur was out of prison Rose left the old man and hooked up with Arthur and even though they'd been run out of Binghamton

Where Arthur was obviously gearing up to kill another child Then this was weeks if not months after being released from prison Rose stuck by him Geez after Binghamton They tried the town of Delhi where Rose's family lived But when local police were informed that a convicted child killer had been moved to their sleepy little community He and Rose were chased out of town once again You can just see the sheriff now driving down the street. It's been like wake up We got a child killer on the loose, but that's kind of why I appreciate the idea of putting them in little trailer parks

I know that they do that, but then you got them all in one group Well, and then they get to hang out in New York City There's an apartment complex that is just full of pedophiles because it's not close to any parks or schools And do you think they just hang out? Do you think they all join together like a rat king, but you'd call it a brat king? I think that they probably laugh and talk like like Alcoholics in a in a about the smell of whiskey, but whiskey wasn't their addiction It's disgusting Now at this point the parole board had a dilemma

Nobody wanted a child murderer in their community, but they very well couldn't send Arthur back to prison So in a decision that would get 12 women killed Oh my god, the parole board decided that what the local police didn't know wouldn't hurt him. Oh my god That's the wrong answer. Yeah Hoping that a larger town would grant him the anonymity He needed to turn over a new leaf the parole board placed him in Rochester, New York and Neglected to tell local law enforcement that a double child murderer was in their midst And since he was only convicted of manslaughter. He wasn't on the sex offender registry either. Oh and manslaughter

It sounds so fun. And he's like he like, you know, he won the garbage plate challenge. Don't forget Imagine he could definitely pound down a bunch of liquid food like the garbage plate. He had a big throat God this parole board everyone on there is complicit in the murder of these 12 women So with what amounted to a clean slate shock Ross moved to Rochester and got hired at Brogna brothers produce By weaving even more tall tails To explain away his time in prison He told his employers that the manslaughter charge was for a revenge killing against the drunk driver who had killed his wife Yeah, so his his

He became a like a Mel Gibson movie in his career with any luck. I'll be played by Liam Neeson one day but If people asked him what he really went to jail for he'd say he was a hitman for the mob Well, it was either that or a large fart. I don't know I don't know all I know is I had a job and that's that's I want to be Gradulated for that first cuz you any idea how hard it is to get all your receipts together for your taxes of being a hitman Just you know if you're going to hire someone that's been that's been 15 years in prison I love, you know, we got to get people look at that great the waffle house all those chefs

They spent time in prison. That's great And you can feel their their like love of freedom and the food the food is amazing But just as soon as they are like as soon as the story becomes too good You just got to do a let's just go and look at in this case micro fish Library just search for this guy. I guarantee you a new story will come up Well, I feel like these are the proto extensions of his Vietnam tall tales where he really kind of knew how to tell a tall tale Like and create a sense of mystery and later on like as I watch more and more interviews of our truck cross He never tells a story the same way twice. No the entire time every single he changes so much shit

And I think immediately you would say oh, he's a liar like when I do agree that he is a pathological liar But I also think that there is a good deal of straight-up red white and blue brain damage That is just allows him to live in a fog where sometimes I don't think he knows the difference between what's real and what's fake Okay, pretty soon though the antisocial behavior of Arthur Shaw Cross began again And he started slamming part-time employees He didn't like against the wall by their necks in between telling gruesome Vietnam stories to whichever Coworker would listen. Hey art. Can we just sit down at the high? I'm Brett from HR We just really feel like we don't know if you're a solid fit of the office

Environment like you know because every office imagine an office is like a swamp Oh, yeah desk is like a lily pad and each person at their desk is like a gecko on a lily pad What kind of what kind of flies are you bringing to the swamp today? I'm bringing the flies of all the little girls. I watched a cat potato down A name every day that me out. They said art go kill them more today and I said no no no I want to bring uniforms to people in the bathroom and they're like no art You have to be a human killing machine This is kind of what I'm saying

Office swamps and geckos and stop fingering the plums art Well, he then started sexually harassing a 24 year old co-worker named Loretta Neil And when his bosses told him to leave her alone, he whined that everyone else in the joint was fucking her So he didn't know why he couldn't try to but the bizarre thing about his harassment of Loretta Neil Was that it instead developed into an ongoing relationship between Arthur and Loretta's mother Clara Who sounds like a real piece of work? Well, you shoot for the stars If you miss then you can land down in the shit With the only way I could describe Clara is that she looks like the the old lady from the fortellies in the goonies

She was actually kind of a good mom if you take into account how well-fed sloth was See Clara met Shawcross one day picking up Loretta from work and Clara became somewhat smitten By Shawcross's dyed black hair and just his general vibe according to Clara She said I had never experienced love at first sight. What but when I saw it for the first time I was like, oh my god What the hell is the most wonderful mean I've ever seen I swear to God. She's like when I saw odd Walking for the first time when I was in a room with him. It was like time stopped Why are you fucking talking? I just don't see it. I don't know

Pretty soon Shawcross had Clara's number and he started calling Clara when he abused Rose Flipping it by saying she was the abuser Then he'd go to Clara's to weep all night while she held him which for Arthur Shawcross was foreplay I'm disgusted. Yeah, I need a white hot right now just so I can feel something good It's only gonna get more disgusting from here. This is where the grossest stories. We've ever told Documentary I'm not triggered and traumatized. I need this today It's just something about taking an almost 300 pound man in your arms like a giant meal and horny, baby And just knowing that he's just like that every minute you tuck them closer to your bosom

He's just getting more and more just riled up one of his ex-wives said that he would request that she rub His back when he was weeping and he would make noises like a little boy I want to I wish I could have a ball to play with or some kind of jacks, but all I got Is this dick in my big left hand? My goodness, it's actually a very tiny hand and a massive dick. It's actually it's interesting His hands were massive were they big yeah, his hands were specifically massive and then he Experienced he got nerve damage in his left hand. This is also one of those weird like, you know when a guy Brags that he something God knows he fell off a ladder in Vietnam as well

I forgot we forgot to talk about to he had another head injury in Vietnam And he got nerve injury you got a nerve injury in his left hand And he said he's like for a while couldn't feel anymore and then in a way That you know when a guy brags about a thing that you're like, why are you telling me? It doesn't matter? He's been like so I spend as much time as possible making my left hand as strong as it could be by gripping and Twisting right gripping lift in a brick lift in a break Why did you do this except to prepare to kill sex words? Yeah Well other times when Shaw Cross got upset

He'd bike over to Claire's house and borrow her dodge omni to drive for hours on the back roads and highways of Upstate New York and before he knew it. He was cruising the red light district of Rochester Oh, my all right. Well, you know, we have my feelings But please can you be nice to the people of Rochester and I have to say everyone that defended Rochester? It must be a nice city because we've never had such I'm gonna call it blowback For a for for jokes that were made since the also the mispronunciation of Oregon because everybody knows it's actually pronounced Oregano and people get so upset about it for some reason or when we mispronounced Helena Which is pronounced Helena or when we said Helena and it's pronounced Helena

I can't remember and not nor do I care. Well, it does matter when it comes to the postal service When this I want to feel experienced like I feel like we should throw some saucy saxophone over this Because this is really when it gets like again, we're making Rochester sexy again. That's what this whole episode's about One of those guys who is just something about the streets of Rochester put him in a mood I don't know man the way I remember people defending their small towns back in Texas You know when people get a little upset. I say the lady doth protest too much Now we don't know exactly what the trigger for Shaw Cross's second murder spree was but according to his fourth wife Rose The change in Arthur's behavior to a more openly psychopathic personality was caused by a clock

See Shaw Cross always looking for his mother's approval was obsessed with buying his mother the perfect Christmas present every year And for Christmas 1987 Shaw Cross thought he'd found the gift to top them all What's it gonna be something about a 300 pound serial killer cuz I'm just gonna say he's already a serial killer Like if you've already done it, but you're a 300 pound serial killer just Riffling through Michaels trying to find the proper thing. They're like nope. Oh, sir Can I help you out right here? I say I'm here with Michaels. Can I help you out? Do you want anything? I we have a we have a sale on barbecues I'll tell you what what I really need is a gift that will just allow me to number one

Achieve the suck or that only a mother's breast can give or the suck or that allows a man to grow fully into We have pool noodles and then number two I just need to find some kind of tell some kind of sign that Jesus maybe will come and intervene And stop me from doing the horrible actions that I plan to do maybe an outdoor patio set and again art I know me. I can't believe we're shopping here together. Yes the braid from bread from HR This is more of an attitude Adjustment scenario that I feel that we all could get into so imagine you're a tree and I'm a river Oh

That Christmas Arthur saved up $60 and bought a nine-piece wood carved clock set that included candle holders and inlays of Christ on the cross and he invited his parents to Rochester for the holiday So he could present his mother with the gift. Oh my but his parents Refused to come and when Arthur mailed it instead They mailed it back because the clock was as his mother explicitly told him quote trash Waste of money It's got crucified Jesus on it. You don't love that Arthur Shaw Cross raped and killed two little kids You don't know you wonder why Christmas was a bummer that year. I guess it was the clock's fault

Well Arthur was devastated and three months later. He began murdering once again Okay, I don't think that is it really tied to a clock if I mean you never know what's gonna set these guys off Yeah, it's gonna be the thing that sends them You know that sends them into a murderous rage and it could also be that Arthur Shaw Cross like a lot of serial killers You know the first act the first murder is somewhat of what they call an accident, but it's really just them letting go It's the tip of an iceberg. Yeah that we're just seeing we're just finally it's finally just coming to light But this is very similar to son of Sam Dave Berkwood's doing Flipping out when he found out like his adopted mother didn't want to meet out. He's just looking for an excuse

Right Arthur Shaw Cross this whole time is such a bitch Every single thing has to be validated to him later on so he can feel like some hyper masculine like I'm an Avenger I did all of this for a purpose all of this serves a purpose. So each one of these has become a massive Like a sign in his mind like the clock became like you could see the the pressure of like this year He's like it's like Ernaz saves Christmas. He's like we're gonna save Christmas this year and this box gonna do it Again didn't molest and murder two children not for Ernest goes to jail. I don't say that was taxes I think that was taxes I'm pretty sure no you mentioned Arthur Shaw Cross as an Avenger, and I am playing the Avengers video game

I haven't unlocked him yet But I'm currently playing as Iron Man. I'm sure at some point. He'll be showing up just jerking off behind a bush I don't know what he does as a superpower, but but March of 1988 Arthur had already been visiting the street walk-in sex workers of Rochester on a regular basis So he was a known quantity to the girls on the street to them He was just Mitch the creep in the borrowed Dodge Omni who for some reason Loved 69 more than anything and in fact seemed a little overly obsessed with vaginas This is why I want to ask the sex worker population that listens to our show

How often do you meet a guy named Mitch who is shaped again? The odd the oddest person he is shaped like they are perennial reference like Bobo from This guy because number one I know from personal experience Having a big belly makes 69 a little bit difficult It's just more difficult and it depends on the way it's just a little bit difficult So you have to add just the curve of the belly to the line of the 69 How often is it that you meet a guy for the first time and the first thing he says to you is I want to go down Under but I don't mind that it's not even the eating out. It's the flip. It's the whole flip because it's a very intimate

I mean is this is all taking place in a Dodge Omni is doing 69 in the car. It's a hatchback in the car Yeah, yeah, well, sometimes he guys he's kind of like Andre Ticketillo. Sometimes he goes to fields And certain other places that sex workers in Rochester knew were safe for business But remember also he if you're talking about the curve of the belly Remember he had that fucking disturbingly large penis. It's gonna go up further the flagpole goes higher So you're saying that he was like it's more of a 71. So he was built For 69 yeah, could be could be but there was no bathing or anything before this he just kind of don't right Oh, no, no, no, he was he was covered with a workman's glint

Okay, he had the scent of a man at the cheese factory. Yes every time fresh from the cheese factory He'd go and the first thing he'd wanted to do is really just Russell in the bushes with any lucky with any luck. He's French Mmm from ours So when Arthur picked up 27 year old dot C blackburn on the night of March 18th for a $30 half and half She didn't think much of it But according to Arthur the whole transaction went awry during the 69 it happens when you're in love You know, I mean it happens normally that there are there are transactions during this 69 can go around. Yes

You've got to be very careful. What happened? Well, he couldn't stay hard and after a few minutes Shawcross said that dot C bit his penis and when she did he bit her vagina and tore off part of her labia with his teeth He then turned around and choked her until she passed out Oh, while she was unconscious he tied her arms behind her back with her pants and her legs together with her shirt And when she woke up he told her that he wasn't the same person She'd gotten in the car with that to me is the most chilling thing

I've heard from him and that that is a thing that comes up again and again that sentence when he turns to her and he says I'm not the same person you got in the car with and how that is Gary flips because he was a very big man Like he was 300 pounds six foot four Oh When he asked her why she bit him She called him a little man and hissed that she did it because she fucking felt like it So Arthur slapped her and drove her further down the back roads outside of Rochester Eventually he pulled over to one of his favorite fishing spots near a bridge over Salmon Creek and got out of the car to use a

Handful of snow to clean his bloody penis and maybe stop some of the pain But even though he was still bleeding he put on a condom and announced he was gonna rape Dottie When she laughed and called him a little man again He whispered in her ear that she was going to die Then he chewed off that same ear and choked her to death. Oh my god But with Dottie just like he did with most of his victims He didn't choke hard enough to break the hyoid bone Which is usually what coroners used to determine strangulation as the cause of death instead he used what coroners call

soft strangulation Squeezing just tight enough to close the whim pipe which took quite a bit longer the way he described his method was that he basically would just use the left hand and Press his entire body weight down on the hand and just hold it and base until they stop So this is probably what I mean. How what are we talking five minutes ten minutes? Yeah, he's in between. Yeah He can go ten minutes usually. Oh Man it can go up to it And I honestly think one of the worst crimes that Arthur Shaw Cross ever committed was his pronunciation of the word vagina

Which is the only thing that he is it's it's just something haunts me where he goes vagina It's calling it a vagina. It's just like I just like Oh, maybe they should have like just asked him about any of these things in the parole hearing Just be like what would you do with that like Man, all of this could have been prevented. Well after killin her he sat with her dead body for hours But finally he pulled the corpse out of his car carried at 30 feet and dropped it in the river He then drove the 15 miles back to Rochester and had a cup of coffee at his favorite diner while reading the newspaper Oh in his favorite diner by the way a Dunkin Donuts

I think a diner is a long walk in terms of calling it that 87 that's what he said. He's like I have my favorite Dunkin Donuts I went to that's where I went to relax us where my friends were that's the people that I knew Wow So he's just eating munchkins drinking coffee reading the paper like nothing happened Yeah, and he it's interesting too that he Him sitting with the dead body. I Think is the first tell that he truly is the serial killer He's gonna be as that he sits with the dead body

I know at first it probably it sounded like he said that he you know He calmed down and he sat and he looked at what he what he did and he was trying to work out in his head but a lot of serial killers talk about this which is the concept of the silence afterwards and this sort of like this feeling of oh I just scratched an itch that I've had for a very long time that I didn't know that I had Definitely changes the meaning of that Simon and Garfunkel song with the sound of silence. Yeah. Yes. I don't think it's about that I don't know Well Arthur then waited until daylight to see how much blood he'd spilt in Clara Neal's Dodge Omni

Cuz remember this is a borrowed car. Oh my okay, and as it turned out he'd spilled quite a bit of blood Oh, we did so Arthur did the best job He could cleaning it up and told Clara that the excess blood was from a fish He'd got it and she said all right. All right. Tell you what I'd I wish you'd stop turning my car into a butcher shop But I don't want you to stop turning my downstairs into a butcher shop My god, my friend David a Dodge Omni in college great car This is it. I feel like this is the most controversial stance you've taken you are I think Arthur Shotcross is the worst-tasting cars. I've ever heard of a serial killer. It's not his car

I know but he still borrowed it. It was his favorite car. He was afraid to drive well Arthur claimed that for about a week after the murder He was in a daze, but when the fog lifted he couldn't think about anything else But particularly couldn't think about anything else, but doing it again. Were there any Media reports being like body found in the Rochester Woods So nobody seemed to care in Rochester No as far as the discovery the body went it froze under the waters of the river and was discovered by a hunter when the spring Thaw came six days after the murder and even though the body was terribly mutilated with multiple bite marks on the vagina a mangled ear an

Obvious signs of psychopathy on the perpetrator's part the cops ruled it is most likely it was probably a dissatisfied client Maybe the pimp and they declared it a DNI do not investigate. Why it may have been a slip-and-fall Sometimes I mean girls fall and catch their vaginas on dandelions every time yeah many times I've seen a girl leave her whole vagina on the side of a cliff Good lord Yeah, and about two weeks after the body was discovered Shaw Cross saw a court mandated psychiatrist and hiding his newly awakened homicidal tendencies Arthur impressed the doctor with his improvement and was deemed and no further need of visits

Honestly, you know it takes a village. That's what it is. It takes a village to raise a child or a serial killer in this case But also just shows this is how deep I mean it's you're the one talking to the psychiatrist So the psychiatrist can only know what you tell him. Yeah, we have this idea of we're throwing him into this being like no We're monitoring him meanwhile like I mean the guy can say whatever the fuck it is he wants to is it possible The psychiatrist was just lazy as hell. I don't know we're gonna be like another job. Well done I think it was more overworked. Let me all of these guys were so overworked They had so many people to deal with and they were so few of them to actually do the jobs I mean that this happens in social services all the time where you just get they've just got too much to do Arthur

You got to get out of here. You're totally fine. We've got little Timmy coming in. He's addicted to weed Marijuana is one of the worst things ever My whole thing right now is I've been super into murdering Marijuana is one of the most dangerous substances in the country right now It makes your hair grow long and makes you gay for vagina. I've heard that What's it's an institutional thing no matter who a person is if you pile too much work on top of them They're gonna burn out and shit's gonna go wrong, of course Well, meanwhile the boys at Bragnea brothers had discovered the whole child murder thing

Oh, the police came up to check on Arthur for one reason or another even though the state he still didn't tell local law enforcement About Shaw Cross. I think we could I think legally for all of our employees. We should ask them in one round Hey, you ever killed a child? even accidentally Travis Have you We cannot lose our number one employee. Okay. No, I know that's why we haven't asked Travis Yes, we just we can't because the work is so good. I feel like he's rebuilt for anything that's happened in the past

Then all of our employees are equal wonderful people Now getting fired filled Shaw Cross with rage as firings usually do for serial killers So he returned to Rochester's red light district on July 9th 1988 the day he was fired to find the second victim of his second murder spree Sexy saxophone. I don't know if there's a sexy saxophone involved here. I don't think it's very sexy It's anything it's like a bagpipe. This is what I'm saying about the term red light district every single time You say red light district. I am imagining a little cafe, and then you go and there's the girl behind the

Glass and she's just like a coin. I will tell you this one time I had sex with a man who told me he was an octopus, and you're like you're like, oh cool What an exotic time this is no red light district in Rochester. It's just a bunch of abandoned buildings It's like former industrial sites where all the jobs have gone over to China, but if you Do you guys it's the red light district? It's so much better to say that industrial with a fuck spot Yeah, okay was second victim's name was Anna Marie Steffen and Shaw Cross approached her in July of 1988 he was walking by the princess restaurant when he saw her and she offered him a quote-unquote date for the meager price of

$20 so Arthur agreed and they walked to a nearby waterfall that was known as a teenager hookup spot and a local sex worker Haven and That's where the 69 began Changing the intro of our show Started I actually Struggled when in writing this is like what is the better way to say this like what is the more writerly way to say this to the more? I guess classy way of saying it. There's no other classy way, but there's no classy way to say 69 You know what to be on double oral double or that's classier

69 is not it's not it's not necessarily not classy. It's just this situation upside-down fine time see there we go But if you guys I think that the 69 actually begins a dinner Yeah, I'm gonna kill you but after trying to have sex for 40 minutes with Arthur's big floppy Limp penis and it gave up and got dressed just to look on Kissel's face is so funny and big He has erectile he's got ED But this is like relatively new because this it is very similar to chickatello It is very very similar where it seems to be a purposeful trigger spot. He know he has ED He can't he has a he's always had a problem getting it up

This is what they've every one of his wives talked about he couldn't sexually function properly And so he would put himself purposely in a position where it would be challenged And then he has what he then views as somebody he views as a lesser Which is a sex worker and then that becomes the the way that we talk about all time the little allowances Yeah, the validation. That's like one of them. He is doing it on purpose. That's my opinion, but I think yeah Sure, of course. Yeah, well, he blamed her for his inability to perform And he was pissed off that she decided to keep the money because after all he had taken 40 minutes of her time Yes, so Arthur began sweating

See Arthur claimed that he knew a murder was coming when gobs of salty sweat began pouring from his skin And that's exactly what happened with Anna Stefan Wet with perspiration, Shawcross grabbed her by the throat and held her head underwater And when she died, he simply let the current take her body away Before he wrapped her dress in a rock and tossed it in the river The body wasn't found for another two months mysteriously hidden downstream under garbage and roofing materials Now this led police to speculate that maybe a construction worker had done it But the speculation didn't go any further than conversations at the scene

Do you think it's possible that Patrick from SpongeBob SquarePants, do you think it's possible he did it? Unfortunately, we're gonna have to call the underwater police for this Oh yeah To call my friend Detective Mermaid to come check this out Yeah, they just don't really give a shit It seems like it, yeah They don't care Well, I mean that's how it goes with every single serial killer that we've ever covered when they murder sex workers

The cops don't investigate and nobody notices until there's a gigantic pile Think of how long it took before Robert Pickton's murders were investigated It was something like 20 Those were also technically like seasonal workers because they used to come in and out of town So they were, they kind of had this excuse of, the cops had this excuse of Oh, you know, girls just pick up and leave whenever they're done with the job and all this kind of shit But meanwhile, it just takes, what we'll see is a kind of, the neighborhood has to get involved eventually Eventually Rochester and everybody has to get to go because there is like the myth

The idea that like nobody's looking for these sex workers Like they still have people that are looking for them But for the cops to pay attention for it to move their needle That everybody's got to come out and say something and it takes a while Especially when they're not reporting it, they're not talking about it They keep just saying that all of this is just occupational hazards I, what else was going on to the point where the cops didn't take this seriously I feel like if I was a detective, I would be like, well, we have a case here

I'm actually going to try to solve this Like it's, what else was going on that distracted them from this? There were murders, I mean, despite what people say, Rochester was not an idyllic place There were a lot of murders in Rochester in the late 80s Oh yes, I heard that I mean, it's still like Rochester is not a tiny town I mean, it's big enough where there's a fair amount of murders to speculate Because they said at one point, they were, you know, we'll get into it later

But they were very reticent to admit that they had a serial killer They thought they had, they thought they had like four or five killers Well, we know that too, right? Serial killers are a stigma on a police station Because they're notoriously hard to catch And then you set up a dynamic between you and a serial killer as a police department So now you're in this like cat and mouse game with this active killer That then it is very highly publicized immediately Because you got a serial killer in Rochester, New York

And all you are, the pressure's up And so what you have to then do is you then have to fucking catch this guy You have to do it, where meanwhile you keep anonymously shuffling these murders around Then you can kind of like pass the buck for a little bit until the heat builds up Officer Kissel, we've got a job for you How big is that dress? Put that on, you're working the night shift I would have found this guy in a heartbeat

Well also, I mean, on the other side of it, serial killers are exceedingly rare Most of the time, I mean, because cops are always looking for the simplest possible explanation Because when it comes to homicide detection, Occam's razor usually applies Yeah, it's always the husband, it's always the wife, it's always somebody personally connected Like 90% of the time, it's somebody who knows the victim This is the hardest thing to put together because you have to figure out, well, why? Like what are the questions of like, why is he killing, how does he choose who he kills And then you just find out that sometimes it's highly planned if it's a BTK

It's somebody who's been hunting and watching their victim for a very long time And then sometimes it's just like whoever's unlucky Yeah, after the murder of Anne Marie Steffen, Arthur Shawcross was no longer required to explain away the prison sentence long gap in employment So he was able to get a job at G&G Food Service making macaroni and pasta salads See, that's the reason why I don't like macaroni salad from the store No, I mean, not anymore, I had no problem with it as of five seconds ago I just don't like it, I like a nice pesto salad Sure

Gelsons What are you putting in this art? This is the best macaroni salad I have ever had in my entire life Art, what are you putting in it really? It's calm My wife loves it God, that's disgusting, he worked in food service, it is He always worked in food service

I hate that, I just hate it He had a hair net on, it's fine Now it's a common misconception that Arthur Shawcross only killed sex workers during his second murder spree But at least two of his victims were just regular folk who had the bad fortune to find themselves in Arthur's orbit The first was 59-year-old Dorothy Keeler, who was a homeless loner who worked part-time at Arthur's favorite diner, and be Dunkin' Donuts And she made four bucks an hour cleaning Shawcross's apartment while he and his wife were at work This is like a fun neighborhood character It seems like she was definitely, she was a fixture on the Rochester scene

A little ornery She could get you that fucking pipe and hot double D whenever you need it, you know what I mean? Get you that Dunkin' Donuts baby Cause America runs on Dunkin' I heard that And sometimes it causes you to run so far you're not killing 11 people I see, so she's like that woman that I, you tube this woman way too much Where, yeah, I'm just gonna go home, cook some, eat some soups, get all fat and sassy

Get all fat and sassy, I love that woman But one day, Keeler came over to Shawcross's apartment to ask if she could take a bath and wash her clothes Cause she was after all homeless And after one thing led to another, Dorothy and Arthur began a two month long elicit relationship behind Rose's back Then, on October 29th, 1989, Shawcross was driving out to the river in Claire Neal's Dodge Omni When Dorothy saw him, waved him down, and took him up on his invitation to spend a couple hours fishing Man, he's got his, mister, he is borrowing his side chick's car to pick up his third side chick Who just so happens to have no place to go

He's not a SoundCloud rapper This is not like side chick, this isn't, no, this isn't Well, once they were isolated out in the country, Arthur brought up suspicions that Dorothy was stealing money from the house And he threatened to fire her if she didn't return what was taken But Dorothy fired a threat right back, promising to tell Rose about the affair should he choose to fire her And that's when Shawcross began sweating He picked up a log, and with a single swing, broke her neck and killed her instantly He then carried her body over to the tall grass where it decomposed down to the bones

Because nobody reported Dorothy Keeler missing Three months later, Shawcross returned to the body, picked up the skull, and nonchalantly tossed it into the river As such, the headless body, when it was finally found, was identified only after Shawcross confessed to the crime Wow This is really the first time we'll see how he did instinctively go back to the body He would do this again and again, and he said, did it to cover up evidence And I was like, I don't think that he did it to cover up evidence, I think he went to go look at it He left the whole body

But he picked up the head and threw it in the river to think that he was like dental records Just like some antiquated idea, but he went to go look at the body And I'm certain that he was looking at that body for a long time That he'd go and he'd watch it in several states of decomposition and then went and just played with the skull Essentially, but he doesn't want to talk about the almost childlike macaw behavior that happens with these guys Because I feel like they revert to almost like childhood, with Ted Bundy going back with the heads and making them talk and shit Where it's like, if there's something about, it's the ultimate fantasy because you have total control over this dead body Okay

Meanwhile, Shawcross' behavior in his personal life was just as alarming One of Claire Neal's other daughters, Linda, reported that Shawcross had an unnatural interest in little boys And once held her 14-year-old son down on the kitchen floor and bit his nipple Just fucking off As a joke Just joking Just joking Oh my god

Just joking, what is that even mean? Horsing around, he's horsing around, this is horseplay Are you horsing around? I always, I always leave the boys nipples alone Yeah That is one of my big roles Oh my god Shawcross also began physically harassing Linda

Once throwing her on the bed and jumping on top, and every time he came over, he chased Linda around and grabbed at her crotch All while Linda's mother, Clara, just laughed and laughed Yeah, she's training, he's training for me That time when we play a game called Running Llama, where I pretend to be a llama, loose from the zoo I'm down South America, he chases me around and oh, he gets that milk, he gets that llama milk from me, I tell you what That is her daughter though, it's kind of weird, don't you think? Yeah Yeah, it's a little strange, good

Well again, this is all childlike behavior, he's very childlike And Arthur continued telling his Vietnam stories to children as well, regaling Linda's son with a terrifying tale about cutting a Vietnamese woman from neck to crotch Thinking the child would be impressed But this psychopathic behavior was only the tip of the iceberg, and the killings continued unabated In September of 1989, Shawcross found 25 year old Patricia Ives, known on the street as Crazy Patty Shawcross said he took her behind the YMCA after haggling down the price of a half and half, where they both found a spot under a tree But when some kids started screwing around near where Arthur and Patty were having sex, Arthur threatened he'd hurt her if she didn't stay quiet, and he kept going Even though Patty was young, she was still street smart enough to recognize a bad situation

And when she realized what was happening, or at least what Shawcross was leading up to, she told him that she knew he'd killed Anne Marie Steffen, and she tried to escape But when she started struggling, Shawcross put his full weight on her body and strangled her to death, continuing to have sex even after she was dead He then dragged her body to a hole in the ground and tossed a wooden board on top But before he left, he took Patty's wedding ring from her finger and later gave it to Clara Neal, claiming it came from one of his ex-wives And until she died, Clara believed him, refusing to acknowledge that it came from the finger of a murder victim Every woman loves, they love to get the wedding ring from an ex-marriage No, every woman loves it because they know, no, no, because now they're like, no, this is a new leaf, yes it's the same ring, yes it comes from the body of a dead woman But at the same time, hey, we're married now

Think about the circle, and what the circle means, how it can never end but never begins, sure Now, although it seemed like he'd done a half-ass job of hiding the body, Patty wasn't found for weeks, and the cops didn't even start looking until she was finally reported missing by her pimp, Rat Face Billy His name is Rat Face Billy Honestly, I wish you guys would just start calling me Billy Because this nickname has been hurting my feelings this entire time Yeah, I have a skinny face, but that's because my mom had a small vagina Well, Billy, I'm sorry, your face looks like that of a rat Oh no, and I love cheese

I know, it's funny when you eat it But even though witnesses said Patty was last seen with Arthur Shawcross, the cops neglected to question him because all the girls knew him as Mitch And the police didn't really want to try that hard to find out who he really was Because they would have a stakeout, look for the guy in the Dodge Omni and no one really wants to do that Just eat a freaking white link with your buddy and just do a stakeout It is so much fun These cops are not, isn't that fun cop work to be like, it's a stakeout, and all three of us are going to do stakeouts I would love it, we do two stakeout movies, do you remember what you tried for us?

I know But I would honestly, I loved it, we would have so much fun on a stakeout And now the thing is people say like, well if civilians do a looking stakeout, it's called stalking someone for no reason But I still want to do one just to see what everybody's behavior is I just want to eat all the snacks Yeah You know the two of you can just go sit in Ben's car and eat snacks for hours But a part of it is you've got to be watching somebody

Yeah, you've got to watch somebody who's guilty Yeah Even if it's a crime we made up for them Yeah Oh, you guys should buy one of those maps to the celebrities homes and stake those houses out Yeah, that's such a good idea because they really live there Honestly they do, it's actually a massive invasion of their privacy But I guess what we've considered to be the tax of living a frivolous life

I suppose so But since Arthur now had five victims in Rochester, the press had finally picked up on Shaw Cross' trail of bodies And of course they gave him a variety of names, I mean they were okay It was the Rochester Strangler, that was one of them It was the Rochester Night Stalker, which is a bit wordy, it's a mouthful What is this created by the fucking Rochester tourism board? They were like, we got people have to know that there's not just one city in New York State We got the garbage plate, Susan B. Anthony was made here, can you believe there's so many

The flowers, don't forget what the flowers There were several scenes from the Amazing Spider-Man 2 that were filmed in Rochester That is also true Isn't that something There's the scene with the gas station and then there's the scene where Tom Holland did not come though He could not make it to Rochester, no, no, no Finally though, the press settled on the Genesee River Killer, best one But that didn't slow down Arthur Shaw Cross

Next was June Stott, another victim outside of Rochester's sex worker community Killed less than a month after Patricia Ives June was mentally subnormal, a well-liked neighborhood character Who good-naturedly wandered from apartment to apartment for meals and companionship Get all fat and sassy Yes, it is just like that According to Arthur, he saw her sitting on a park bench in late October of 1989 And seeing how June had eaten dinner at Arthur's apartment a couple of times, he offered her a ride

And that day, they had a date of sorts Walking along the beaches of the Genesee River while feeding the birds But once they were in a secluded spot, Arthur claimed that June, innocent as she was Asked him to teach her how to make love Why does each one of his stories sound like an erotic letter from a trucker porn magazine? I mean, don't do truckers like that I mean, truckers know about erotica Have you ever seen a fucking copy of Nugget magazine?

I also, I watched this documentary about truck stop sex workers called Lot Lizards And it's, ooh, it's disturbing Women lead dangerous lives Very Well, do you want the products delivered or not? No, I'm not saying, I believe that truckers should be getting sex And I think that's important That's why I think sex workers should be legalized

And I honestly, they should probably have dick-sucking machines in a couple of these cross-country trucks Just so they stop killing drifters You know what, I agree with that Legalize it Legalize it Legalize it, go on, just size it But when Arthur tried quote unquote teaching her She lost it

And started screaming that she was gonna tell everyone And it's at that point that Shawcross covered her mouth with his hand and suffocated her He left the body naked on the shore where he killed her But like Dorothy Keeler, he returned Which is interesting Because from what it seems like to me Arthur only returned to the bodies of the people he knew personally He never returned to any of the sex workers except the ones that he knew

Which I'm not sure why We'll get into it because I feel like he did it later on too He did do it the once when he got caught But I feel like he was purposely trying to get caught But he knew that woman That was June Cicero, he knew her It's something about completing the sexual fantasy There's something about, now that I know this woman

I know her So I maybe was in my own, maybe Arthur Shawcross was like Always kind of sexually attracted to June Scott Right And now you have total control over her body So you maybe have had some sort of Maybe it seems like there's a lot of it Is people he led into his personal circle as well

People he invited to work in his home And then it seems like he almost was building a victims list in his own head As he was going, grooming them in a way For them to feel comfortable with him I think sometimes he'd like to say that a lot of it was Kind of like spur of the moment But I think there was a lot more premeditation Than you might think

With somebody as simple minded as Arthur Shawcross I think that he was building a victim profile And that he would find somebody and kind of groom them into being Because I was watching that kindable documentary Has an interview with Arthur Shawcross where he's with a younger woman And it's really the first time I saw him go into grandpa mode Where he was like making stupid jokes And there was like a part of me

I was like, man he sounds just like my fucking pop-pop And that was like the first time I got really scared of him Because it's like, oh this is the side they saw They saw this bumbling, blinky, fucking dumb shit looking guy Elmer Fudd Yeah, Elmer Fudd like making silly jokes with them And they were completely disarmed And then all of a sudden they trusted him

Like Mitch really was a different guy They are And the other side of that interview The one where it shows him with his granddaughter The other side of that is in the Arthur- In the Shawcross letters, the book He talks about that granddaughter But talks about her

He's like, I want to teach you a piece of ass how to fuck Oh my god It is this other- There is this- these two sides Like there's this shiny coin on top And then the fucking fungus covered underbelly Other than jamming nails up his ass He really is like Albert Fish

He's very similar and I also think When you see his reconnection with the granddaughter You see the same sort of personality disorder Stripe in that family Because they're purposefully doubling down on seeing And making the serial killer To be a part of their family even though Like it's done to basically say a fuck you to the world

Being like, yeah we're happy with our family lineage And it's like, I don't know man He killed people, he raped and killed two little kids Your kids age It's very intense Well one of the girls was a teenager And in the picture with Arthur Shawcross Of them going and seeing him in prison

She's happy as a pig and shit Or at least she appears to be so And she's also wearing a Bersam t-shirt So you know her taste Wow, wow, alright Do we know that pigs actually love shit? Yeah, well they don't mind it I don't know, I feel like if you cleaned up the pig pen

They wouldn't complain They like mud They like mud But they shit in the mud And then it all becomes one thing I think so Okay But at June's stop

Arthur Shawcross took the return trip To a horrific new level A week after killing her Shawcross went to the body And found it in the exact spot where he'd left it Lying face down After sitting there for a while He turned the body over

Had sex with the corpse And brought out June's own pocket knife That Arthur had stolen off her body After murdering her Using her own knife He opened the body in one long gash From the neck down around to the anus Before cutting out what parts of the vagina

He could manage to get loose He then ate the lump of flesh Then dragged the body to a nearby swamp Where he covered it with the rug And left So this is a week of decomposition A week, yeah So like that's, I mean that's like pretty liquefied

Right, like you can see like Putrefaction, putrefaction has begun, yeah Now do you notice this is the exact mirroring Of his fake stories from Vietnam So it seems like he finally built the I'm gonna say the word confidence To go into the crime scene And do his fantasy

Like he finally is expressing it And then that would give, that's weird That's what gives it the weird bottom layer of truth When he tells the Vietnam stories later on That he now has done the thing that he had Pretended to do Yeah So he's just like, what's the difference

If it's Rochester or Vietnam, I did do it I did do it Oh, that's freakin' disgusting But, Shawcross' return to the body Was what eventually gave the police The information they needed to eventually catch him Investigators knew that Shawcross Had to return to the body days after killing her

Because when a person dies The blood still in the body falls victim to gravity As a result, the blood pools in the corpse On whichever side of the body is laying on the ground And since the blood in this corpse Had obviously pooled in the front And the body was found in the opposite position Police knew the killer had returned to the scene

Oh my god, are we talking about police work here? Did they do it? They did Wow Only after the press started making a lot of fuckin' noise Wow However, Rochester police were still Unwilling to admit they had a serial killer on the loose

But one detective, a veteran named Billy Barnes Kept hounding the brass Because he knew that the Genesee River Killer Would strike again I gotta find this killer before the cancer kills me That's always a good way to give a homicide detective an edge Just give him colon cancer Yeah

And Arthur Shawcross killed many more times There was Maria Walsh, who tried saving her own life By telling Arthur she loved him right before he killed her There was Francis Brown, who urinated on Arthur's face As he killed her through suffocation during 69 Using his disturbingly large penis And finally, there was Kimberly Logan Who was found naked and beaten with leaves stuffed down her throat

So, with eight victims in their own backyard Someone finally listened to Billy Barnes And 60 officers were assigned to the case Now, at this point, having the knowledge that a serial killer In training was living in their town Would have been helpful information to the police Yeah But even though the Genesee River Killings were statewide news

It reached New York City by this point And Albany, no one at the parole board Thought to tell investigators about Arthur Shawcross What is wrong with them? They're just looking at him and going, maybe it's not him? Why did you let him go? Because he said nice things at the one meeting And then we all just kind of looked at each other

And said he's kind of like my pop pop Oh Jeez However, Shawcross did have survivors Joanne Nostrand agreed to a half and half for $40 But as she drove off with Arthur And he began babbling about rifles She had the distinct feeling that she was riding

With the Genesee River Killer During their 40 minute session Joanne said Arthur's hands kept floating up towards her neck And she kept swatting him away with one hand Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop While holding a knife next to her leg with the other When Arthur asked her about the knife She said it's sharp and it's open

And if he bothered her, she'd fuck him up Further adding, quote There's a killer around I'm prepared to meet my maker and take that motherfucker with me Hell yeah Damn, all right Yeah, you don't fuck with Joanne Van Nostrand I didn't fuck with nobody

Eventually he held her down And from what she said, he began sweating Enough for her to notice That's the corroboration But probably because she was armed He held back and instead asked her to pretend she was dead And when she did, he came and drove her home That's the easiest day she probably had

You just have to sit there and act dead I mean, I wish that could work for all of these guys So he didn't actually have to follow through with the act It was like he could cosplay it And it would work for him? Yeah, I mean, at least that's what it sounds like Oh my god But that's the thing, it's probably worked

But it probably wasn't... It's not what he wanted That's not what he wanted to do You asked the question, why do serial killers kill? They do it because they want to do it Well, Joanne said that after Arthur dropped her off She went inside and told her boyfriend That she just fucked the Rochester strangler

What? And he laughed about it and got high Forgetting about the incident until Arthur Shawcross was arrested One month and four victims later Wow See, at this point, Shawcross had entered the Berserker mode That many serial killers encounter When the urge to kill overrides the self-preservation

That's necessary to avoid being captured See, while Arthur's second murder spree Lasted a little less than two years Seven out of his twelve victims Were all killed in just two months From November to December in 1989 Wow Three days after dropping off Joanne Van Nostrand

Shawcross went into a restaurant one night To pick up a chicken dinner And when he came out, sex worker Liz Gibson Who recognized him through the window As Mitch the regular Was sitting on the hood of Clara Neal's Dodge Omni She asked if he was looking for a date And when he said all he had on him was $14

She said, that'll get oral But while he was performing the act on her He claimed that she grabbed his wallet More horseshit Every single time he claimed somebody was trying to steal from him I think it was absolute horseshit Yeah, he's not exactly Mr. Moneybex No

Yeah Again, filled with rage, he slapped her And when she fought back, he put his full weight on her throat And in his words, he pushed her to death With his wrist While she dug her fingernails into his face But in the fracas Liz had kicked and broken the gear shift in the Dodge Omni

And when Shawcross told Clara Neal about the quote unquote Accident She, for the first time, began to suspect That maybe there was something fishy About Shawcross's long nights borrowing the car Yeah Both women refused to question any of his behavior Arthur Shawcross, for some reason, got away with it

I think it's a reflection on if he's bad, then they're bad It's a little bit of that And yes, and I also think that Rose Very much so, according to Arthur Shawcross Rose will let him do whatever Rose just kind of knew that he fucked around Because he was just too much man for her And then Clara was truly like a fucking gaga

For Arthur Shawcross, she loved him And so they just were letting him do fucking whatever Yeah And Clara was a monster in her own right For different reasons Sure So after that, Shawcross killed two more women In less than a week, murdering Darlene Trippie

After she called him a little boy Following his inability to get an erection And killing June Cicero two days later With June, however, Shawcross returned to the body Because he'd gotten to know her in a customer-client relationship According to the other girls on the street June only got into cars with people she knew So we know there was some sort of connection there

Okay A few days after killing June Cicero Shawcross returned to the body that he'd nonchalantly Pushed into a snowdrift out of Clara Neal's other car A Chevrolet celebrity Clara Neal was like fucking Jay Leno Yeah, she had a lot of cars, that's for damn sure The Jay Leno of boxy pieces of shit

Yeah That's just Jay Leno That's the Jay Leno of Jay Leno He's just a normal guy He should stay with the car magazines It's the funniest guy I've ever seen He's just how guys are He's a man's man

He's a man's man But unlike with June Stott This time, Arthur brought a hacksaw After pulling the frozen body out of the ice Shawcross tried sawing out the sexual organs With the intent of giving them to Clara's son, Robert Lee What? Now it seems like the Neal family had its own problems

What do you mean? Yeah, I'd go out on a limb and I'd say that This is me on a limb Yeah Whoa, yeah Hey, hey, hey, the apples are here The squirrels are torturing me Well, Robert Lee had been bugging Arthur

For a deer vagina for months Yeah What? You know, it is No, I don't know how it is And according to Arthur He hadn't been able to fulfill this request Because they were only encountering bucks

On their hunting trips And this claim in and of itself is a little suspicious Because it's a lot harder to even find a buck While hunting Much less being able to kill it Daddy, daddy, I want a deer vagina Oh my god Hey, Henry Thomas, you know how long

I'm gonna have to wait online In Christmas to get a deer vagina now Now you're asking me Jeez What in the world's going on in Rochester? And besides, Arthur's way of hunting Was not at all particular And it was specifically sociopathic

Instead of using a gun Arthur would mix black powder with farming salt And when the deer would come for the lick It would cause such dehydration That they'd drink water until they couldn't move And Arthur would walk up And slit their throat That's so fucking lazy

That's lazy And it's only for killing See, he didn't use the meat or anything like that It didn't matter what cut Because it's not like you're fucking You can, you know, focus on a buck Or anything like that Like you're just fucking

Killing for the sake of killing Alright And it's all this that makes me think That maybe Arthur's claim That he was harvesting a victim's vagina For his girlfriend's son Was a little suspect But from what he said

He cut it out But got too excited to take it to Robert Lee So he ate it on the spot Oh god, no Cannibals, it's called It's a really interesting documentary Called Cannibals, The Real Hannibal Lecters Which is an interesting documentary

And he, you know He does the very standard Of being like People always ask me what human meat tastes like You ever had a bit of steak With the fat on the end? Sure, yeah, the bristle, yeah That's who the only who he describes it

But it's the I know that he loves talking about it So that immediately suss Over anything that he says Like openly Because they think he's full of shit Hannibal Lecter was a doctor I mean, I feel like we put these people

On a pedestal These are not Hannibal Lecters But Arthur Shawcross in my mind I really do think that he did it I think that he did Commit cannibals Because if you watch this documentary Does a really good case of showing

Isiah Segawa, Chickatillo Arthur Shawcross and Jeffrey Dahmer And besides necessarily from Jeffrey Dahmer All of the rest of them had very severe Frontal lobe damage And it seems that that is Inherently connected to Like cannibal crimes

Where it is impulse control You have no impulse control So he looked at this thing and just simply To fulfill something Isn't it easier not to cut off somebody's vagina And eat it When it comes to impulse control It's easier

I don't understand How does that mean impulse control? It's easier to go to the store Instead of building a garden It's easier to rent an apartment Rather than build your own cabin Sure Yeah, and that's the thing

I think the second part is true Is because unlike the Vietnam stories There was forensic evidence to support the claim That he practiced cannibalism Because June Cicero's body was mutilated In a consistent manner with Shawcross's story But even though June Cicero would not be found Until after Shawcross had been caught

The pattern of returning to bodies was established As far as the police were concerned The problem with having this information though Is that cops couldn't really do anything Until they had another body But as opposed to other serial killer investigations Like save the investigation into Andre Cicatello It only took one more body

Before Shawcross was locked up forever His last victim was Felicia Stevens Killed on December 28th, 1989 That night Shawcross was in the gray celebrity And Felicia ran up to the side of the vehicle And stuck her head in the passenger window To ask if he wanted a date But Shawcross, feeling bold

Rolled up the automatic window And caught Felicia in the throat He then reached over and choked her While she screamed until she passed out Then he unrolled the window, pulled her through And finished the job Now the reason why there was no sex To go along with this murder

Was because Felicia Stevens was black And not surprisingly Shawcross was racist On top of everything else Saying he only killed Felicia To muddle up the investigation Oh my god And that's because his favorite dung and donuts Was also a cop hangout

And this is true, this is not a bit Like he'd sit there and he'd listen to the cops Talk about the investigation Yes, very similar Where he kind of accidentally heard Them talking about the shit And then basically just saying He goes after white sex workers

Interesting And so he immediately like I don't think he's cunning in many ways But this was his like attempt at being cunning Okay But as it was Felicia was the victim that got Shawcross caught And she was reported missing very quickly

Which caused the police to search The surrounding areas for the body And it was while searching That they found Arthur Shawcross Arthur had driven the Chevrolet Celebrity To Salmon Creek for a second visit To June Cicero's body Which by then was encased in ice

Remember this is December In upstate New York Right Oh yeah and you know According to Rochesterisgreat.com They get up to almost This is true Rochester you better like snow

Because if you're going to move to Rochester It gets with a medium annual average Of 89.3 inches Wow What an interesting fact that is Yep About Rochester But just as he was getting out of the car

He was spotted by a state police surveillance helicopter Looking for Felicia Stevens Pretty soon The cops were on Shawcross Who had no good reason to be out there Other than he just stopped at the murder site To by his explanation Piss in a plastic water bottle

It was all a coincidence And fucking And that's horseshit to me That is horseshit I know he was visiting the body And I don't know Why he did it Especially because

I do believe that there is a pattern That he knew the other victims When he would visit the bodies afterwards And then some There's a part of me wonders Does he want to be caught And there's another part of me that just says Or was he just deciding to

Was he about to Start a whole new wing Of murders Where he would always go Each time And then that became A favorite part of the process Because somebody like Dahmer

Discovers over time That I don't like the killing I just need a body Right Once the detectives began to question Shawcross And look into his background They discovered the child murders And heard all his bogus Vietnam stories

Including a new one About how he'd use a baby bottle nipple To make a silencer for his M16 Which is fucking impossible Does that work? No, it does not work Nope A baby bottle nipple

Can't even silence a baby Unless you really get it down in the throat Don't do that And while he denied ever sleeping With a sex worker He was pretty free with talking about sex With his sister when he was a teenager And he regaled cops with stories

About how he only had sex with his wife When she was on top Great Cool brag Thank you for that information Now there was one quote unquote Expert at the police station Who said it was impossible

For a person to switch from killing children To killing adults And he's like, you better let him go Oh my god Who are these people? Why would that be impossible? It seems totally possible It's against the data

Yeah, it's against the trending data That they go switch from another But they don't understand that it was like No, he was just looking for whoever was vulnerable No, no, no, no There's no way that Ben Kissel was drunk Because he only drinks Bud Light And it was obvious that he smelled like whiskey

What are you talking about? Well, it's rare But the rest of the cops told him Shut the fuck up Because they knew they had their guy Well, oddly though What finally got Shawcross to admit to the murderers Was when the cops threatened Clara Neal

They said they'd arrest her Because Shawcross had used her omnie And her celebrity in the commission of the crimes And when they threatened her He confessed and began with the murder of Liz Gibson After that, he asked for a map And victim photos from Unsolved Murders And took credit for the ones he killed

While showing cops exactly where he left the bodies While never taking credit for anyone else's crimes In the ultimate, like, big fat guy With the beer belly, like, version of this They handed him a pile of pictures of missing women And he went through it and it was like He said it was like playing cards Where he went like, no, yep, that one

Oh my god Did that one? Like, and then just like threw him out onto the table Geez And with each murder, of course, it was the victim's fault Every time They'd bit his penis They'd broken his gear shift

They'd called him names and so on and so whatever Now, like most serial killers He tried pleading not guilty by reason of insanity at trial Saying that Vietnam and childhood sexual abuse Had caused PTSD that manifested as multiple personalities And they were the ones who killed the women I'll tell you straight up I'm certain that he suffered from some form of PTSD

But he just also had asshole disease Yeah And the motor we discovered A lot of boy PTSD If you have a form of antisocial behavior problems Mixed with anything That's the fucking evil, deadly secret sauce Is that you have to both have a total disregard

For any human life Absolutely Mixed with whatever the hell it is you got There's no excuse for these actions But as far as what was actually wrong with Arthur Shawcross Jack Olson laid out an interesting theory In his book The Misbegotten Son He said that Shawcross had an overabundance of bile

Ten times the normal amount Which was a sign of a disease called pyroleria There was one term I heard for it I think I want to say it's called like cryptamine I forget that there's another like term But it is just bile But it's fucking shit that's it's toxins That's supposed to come out in your pee

But instead it fucking stays in your blood And it's structurally similar to LSD So they think that maybe This is my whole thing I really do believe Arthur Shawcross existed in a fog And so he was kind of half tripping balls Half the time on his own fucking blood bile On his own bile?

Yeah and he also was He was a shit head And he was everything else So there was just like And that's why I think there's a there's a whole disconnect Between every single one of his stories And he also was a liar So it's all mixed in

It's all together Yeah Well people with pyroleria Sometimes have terrible behavioral problems And huge mood swings They're usually night people Because light bothers them They can't handle stress

They're pale They go gray at a young age All this shit describes Arthur Shawcross They also have abnormal fat distribution Which also explains Arthur Shawcross' abnormal body shape And his weird misshapen head It is very weird

Yeah Actually this is a disorder That causes me to look like the Michelin man This is actually him So I prefer you to call me By my proper pronouns Tire man, tire they But even so

No one bought the insanity defense And Arthur Shawcross was sentenced to 250 years in prison Where he died of a heart attack in 2008 As a weird, gross old man Who till the day he expired Continued telling his grotesque tales To anyone who would listen

Oh And you can go look up his poetry Which you know I'm gonna go as far as to say it's derivative It's not derivative It's exactly copied from the Bible in some places He just copied the lovest kind The lovest kind thing is like

I wrote this poem It's wonderful Yeah you did All right And also poetry and serial killers At this point is hack Because Berkowitz was really the only true Serial killer poet

We know this And he went As they started talking So I think he just kind of copied Because he started to like Serial killers become aware Of the in prison behavior Of other serial killers

And the way they promote their name After the fact So you can kind of see him wanting to get in On the bandwagon Like a bunch of 40 year old comedians That we know trying to do TikTok He's a real Jim Morrison In the same shit

All right everyone That's Arthur Shaw Cross A disgusting tale That does not reflect The great people of Rochester Thank you all so much for listening I wanna go to Rochester now We're gonna have to

We're gonna have to now And we're gonna go put on a hell of a show Whenever we can Thank you all so much for listening to this series Hope you were edutained Because we always do learn things About the human psyche When we cover these true sociopaths

So thank you all so much for supporting the show Yeah, you know where to find All the other shows here Wiz, Brew, Toppat Kind of fun has expanded into all sports Not just wrestling You guys are really gonna I'm very excited to hear all of your takes

On all of the sports Basketball Basketball Who's your favorite player right now in football? Who do you think is What do you think about week one, Henry? Oh, I love it Reginard Gibson

And who does he play for? The Toledo Mountain Bears? You are wrong on everything So thank you all so much for your support And of course we love being with you And we'll get through all of this stuff together as always Never forget, hail yourselves Hail to Satan

Again, maghustalations, everyone Hail me Do a hail You gotta hail me Sure If you're gonna hail someone You gotta hail me Alright, I'm fine with it

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