Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 467: Rodney Alcala Part II - Bananas For Dinner

Episode Date: September 18, 2021

We end our Alcala series with Rodney winning his Dating Game appearance, continuing his grisly string of murders, and inevitably being stuck in a decades-long dance with the American justice system.Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. Why'd you put your glass on? That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'. Fred Durst energy today.

That's what I'm bringing to the fucking show today. I'm bringing new hip, old man, Fred Durst energy. Fuck yeah, dude. I got my fucking Centurium Silver. I'm putting it up my ass. I got my Ivermectin. I put it in my fucking bong. And I'm ready to rip some new metal serial killer grooves

on today's episode because I'm roading, roading, roading. I had too many crab rangus and my name is Fred Burst. Yeah, whoa, whoa, yeah. Be ready for better humor than that because we're just warming up. Have we started? I guess. All right, we're rolling, rolling, rolling.

What? Welcome to the last podcast. On the left, everyone, I am Ben Hanging out with Marcus and Henry. Hope everyone is doing well out there. We have a disgusting two-parter for you today. This is the second half of our tale of Rhett, Rodney, Elkala, the dating game killer.

So when we last left, Rodney Elkala, he'd already killed at least half a dozen women and almost killed a child. He'd gone to prison for the lighter crime and he'd been sent to prison again after that for kidnapping a second girl months after being released for his crimes against the first one. That is the only time you don't want a baker's dozen,

because if it comes down to murder, if six is enough, dare I say it's too much? Honestly, these bakers are always fucking bragging about how much extra food they got. That's what a baker's dozen's all about. It's about a baker bragging about their fucking skills. When it comes down to it, yeah, I could do, I could have some dough if I wanted to.

No, I think the bakers work very hard for us and we appreciate the bakers. I'm sorry, yes, what am I saying? But despite all this, and despite the fact that he'd once been a member of the FBI Top 10 Most Wanted list, Rodney Elkala still managed to become a contestant on a popular 1970s game show called The Dating Game. Da-na-na.

Oh my god. Da-na-na. I don't remember the exact song, but it's something like that. The world's worst producer ever produced The Dating Game needs to never work again. You're talking about Chuck Barris, but Chuck Barris was not the world's worst producer,

necessarily, he was, if it is true, the world's worst assassin, which is also not true. We'll get into it. He definitely wasn't in any way, shape, or form. Chuck Barris, he was the one that he produced The Dating Game, The Newlywed Game, and the whole thing was that during this time period, in the mid-1960s, most game shows happened during the day,

and they were fairly clean, right? And they were fairly clean. No, they were not. Well, no, this is the beginning of this. Pam, your husband said when you guys were making whoopee, that you like to have a certain squeal. Is that true? You squeal like a pig.

Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Oh god. Wow, what a beautiful newlywed couple. Chuck Barris invented that kissle. But he is the one who did that.

He brought them to the world. He was the schlock master. That's what he ended up in, and honestly, he felt a lot of resentment being called the schlock master. But he was a massive producer in the mid-1960s, trying to bring the counterculture from the streets to the television. Because he's trying to say, we can

use this groovy lifestyle that all the kids are way into with their high pubic hair, and there are no bras, and all his fun stuff, all the fun stuff that the kids are doing. Chuck Barris was not only the producer, but the host, like the guy on Jeopardy. What a fun guy. What a fun guy.

And he was the host of these shows, and he was the freewheeling, like, acid-taking game show host, which is the first time you saw that at the time period, because he also did a show called The Gong Show. Oh, yeah. The Gong Show is fun. Really? It's awesome.

Oh, yes. The Gong Show is classic. Barb, what could you do with a banana other than eating it? Why not eat all these hard questions? Barb, you are fucking failing. Ha ha ha ha ha. Chuck Barris would go on to claim later on. I think after the suicide of his daughter,

that he wrote a book called Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. He wrote several autobiographies. He wrote that book? He did. Kidding. He wrote this, and this was what he called an unofficial or unacknowledged autobiography, which was like this funny thing that he wrote,

because in the end, he was a very complicated and interesting man. But in this book, and in the George Clooney directed film, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, Chuck Barris claimed to have been an assassin for the CIA, and he said that he killed over 30 people for the CIA. For a while, people thought that this was legitimate. They thought that he actually did kill these people,

and that he was like, or more so, they thought that he went completely fucking insane, that he was living some kind of schizophrenic fantasy, and he was saying this. And now, what we know from interviews with Chuck Barris towards the end of his life was that it was all just a grift. And it was a funny bit that he used to sell books

that he tried to get, you know, and he tried to do. But I was hoping that there was going to be more to it, like maybe there'd be more mysterious circumstances, or it was him really insane, but it really was just another very skilled way of moving units. Yep, all right, well, that's the norm. Usually, it's just a grift. Now, for those of you who have never seen the dating game,

the concept is simple. Basically, a woman has to choose from three eligible bachelors by asking them a series of goofy, somewhat sexy questions. And based on the answers, she chooses one bachelor at the end for a date, which is, of course, paid for by the good people at the dating game. Absolutely. Some of it was pretty juicy.

Yeah. If my pussy was a birthday candle, how would you blow it out? With my, with my ass. Oh, you can just take me, choose me. I love trucker dating game. But the twist is that there's a barrier between the woman and the bachelors.

So she's choosing which one she likes based on voice and personality alone. Ha ha ha ha. The innocence of television. This is physical beauty means nothing. But it's interesting because that was like. My favorite is when they do choose someone, and they look at them, and they're

visibly upset with their choice. Well, the idea of handsome bachelor has changed quite a bit in the 40 years since the view of the dating game. Because if you look at the show, The Bachelor, and then you look at the three bachelors that are normally on the dating game, oh Lord, it just looked like one is there's the bachelor

and then it should be the three guys that work on the bachelor's car. And to give you just one more example of Rodney Alcala's charm, he won his appearance on the dating game based solely on his personality. Now from the moment Rodney Alcala flashes his smile after he's introduced,

it feels like you're watching a fucking living nightmare on display. It's like something out of Sandman. He's like a fucking shark. You know what it reminded me of truly is Joker's scene, the most recent Joker where he's at the talk show. It was just that kind of chilling

where you're like something's not quite right here, almost like the uncanny valley. But also that might just be because we know who Rodney is. We know what he's done. We know what he still has yet to do. That's the thing is that now I rewatched the episode that he was on, right?

Which is to kind of get a context for it. And the problem is that nowadays there's all the new true crime edits of the dating game. So it's all just like, boom, on an innocent game, a killer emerge. Dude. Like him doing like a slow lap. But then when you cut to it, yes, it seems evil.

And then when you watch the actual episode, it's more in my mind what I realized this time when I was watching him. I was like, if I didn't know about his crimes, it would be more like, whoever that guy is, he's faking this. But he is a shallow person that does not feel the things that he is feeling.

People were quite nervous on that show. Yeah, how do you do that? So I figured the cameras make people nervous. Absolutely. Well, let's check out just the introduction that they gave Rodney for his episode of the dating game. Good luck, gentlemen. Well, let's see.

Bachelor number one is a successful photographer who got his start when his father found him in the dark room at the age of 13, fully developed. Between shapes, he might find him skydiving or motorcycling. Please welcome Rodney Alkala. Rod, welcome. He had a very just it's because he did that thing

where he laughs with no sound, which really creeps me out. And also, you know what I noticed about the dating, the dating game and all the other footage I saw of the newly wed game and the gong show? It was a really common thing for a host of an old gaming show to kiss a woman on the lips. Oh, my goodness, of course.

That was crazy. Dawson. Oh, yeah, family feuds. Oh, yeah, those are fucking God awful. He's just just like this guy, too, because this guy just looks like an evil car salesman. And he just like, like the woman comes up and he grabs her by the chin and he's just like,

wasn't the dude's original joke about how his father saw his cock in a dark room? Yeah. Wasn't that the beginning? This is how Jimmy Savile was able to just like, laugh his way into the grave. So after all three bachelors were introduced, the young lady, whose name is Cheryl, comes out.

And she's introduced by a bad joke involving foot massages. Yeah, she used to be, she used to massage feet for a living, but she quit when her boss asked her to work her way up. Whoa. He was a predator then. Yes, indeed.

Good. And as you can tell by her interactions with Rodney throughout the show, Cheryl is just a normal, fun, loving 1970s gal. Yeah, she's groovy. Yeah. Well, let's take the interactions that Rodney and Cheryl have one by one.

Bachelor number one. Yes. What's your best time? The best time is at night, night time. Why do you say that? Because that's the only time there is. The only time? What's wrong with morning, afternoon?

Well, they're okay, but night time is when it really gets good. Well, you know, to be honest, again, they're coached to be naughty. They're told to be naughty. Yeah, but you could have sex in the daytime too. Yeah, but only after you're married. He just seems like he really liked nighttime

because that's what he went and did all of his horrible, horrible crimes. Yes, yes, now we know that. But that's the joke, but you can see that when he's answering that question. Like that smile is like you guys don't even get the joke because what I am talking about is horrendous crimes against humans, but you think I'm talking about me.

You don't know. Yeah. All right, let's hear the next one. I'm a drama teacher, and I'm going to audition each of you for my private class. Bachelor number one, you're a dirty old man. Take it. Come on, over here.

Oh, honey, we ought to go out and boogie. You know, you know, this is just imagine all of this. Can't it all be me? You know what I mean? Like they can't all just throw a character at him and expect it to be fucking pure gold. Just imagine all of this. Perhaps the timing doesn't quite work out,

but you can figure it out. Imagine all of this with the backdrop of Vietnam. You know, so you watch this and then you watch the local news. This is 1979. This is 1979. So let's say the Korean War. So you're watching this, then you turn to footage of the Korean War, and then you're like, and just another night in America.

There is something so unbelievably disturbing about how we are so puritanical, so you have to skirt around sex as opposed to just asking the question, and it makes it so much scarier. But this was a trailblazing show in the opposite direction. That was like the whole point of the dating game and the newlywed show and the gong show, was that Chuck Barris was like, we have abandoned our sexuality.

This is we're all sexual beings. Like this, we should infuse this into our pop culture. So America had abandoned it. I don't remember. No, no, because the 1970s was filled with sex criminals. So they'd have it on some level, you know, it was there. It just, it wasn't allowed to be normal. All right, let's hear the last interaction between the two of them,

which is the only one where Rodney Alcala does sound the tiniest bit charming. A bachelor number one, I am serving you for dinner. Oh. What are you called and what do you look like? I'm called the banana and I look really good. Can you be a little more descriptive? Peel me. Huh?

Peel me. Okay, Peel me. That was quick. That was quick. He might have had that overloaded. He might have had that preloaded. He may have been fed that line. We don't know.

Yeah, maybe. I would have gone with mutton cocks. Mutton cocks, instead of mutton chops, go with mutton cocks, although is mutton chops of food? No, that's a hair style. No, it is a hairstyle. You would know completely correct. And maybe she'd be like, maybe she'd hear that and go, I can fix him.

Maybe pork pie, but if porky, with the porkin pie, you know what I'm talking about. But you know, again, it is weird to serve a banana at dinner, but you know, when it comes down to it, he was trying to make a connection. But yes, that was the one tiny moment where you can kind of see why people listen to Rodney Alcala, right? Yeah. I was watching a really interesting, it's recently released footage of Paul Bernardo in a police interrogation, like in a police interview, 10 years after he'd already been

arrested and in jail. And it's a really interesting case study to see the highly charismatic psychopath at work. You should look it up. It's on a YouTube account called Criminal Psychology. The Paul Bernardo footage really shows how like this type of guy works where he is dynamic kind of. And he is really funny, but he's also highly pushy.

And because people do have like a reaction to people who like, yeah, that's why I guess why pickup artists use negging and making fun of you and digging into you, because there's something about people that have kind of like a battle personality that attracts some people, like somebody who's willing to say like, I feel like your hair be a lot prettier, like some kind of bullshit. I love you. That's really nice. I love that.

That's so fun. Yes. Sexbury steak. Sexbury steak. I think that might actually work. That's your scent. Yes. That's your leather and your cologne.

Yes. Banana cream. You can just go with banana cream pie. Yeah. I'm glad you're still thinking about it. Yeah. I can still do it. I don't think about this all day.

Mm-hmm. Jelly and cum. I mean, I could literally do this all day. It's too fun. Well, based on just those three answers, Cheryl chose Rodney Alcala as her date, quote, because I like bananas. She's fun. Yeah.

She is really, I mean truly, I'm very pretty as well. She's a pip. I'd say she's a pip. Total. But when the curtain was lifted, she seemed to be almost immediately repelled by Rodney's appearance. You can see it on her fucking face. You can't.

See, Rodney did have a somewhat handsome face, but his hair and style of dress left much to be desired. If you've never seen a picture, Alcala had a distinctive look. Big collars. I mean, it's 1978. Yeah. So, you know, he's got the big collars, an open shirt displaying his chest, and very long curly hair that was so full, it stuck out about three to four inches on each side

of his head. That's a weird-looking fucker. He's got good hair. He looks like a magistrate. I don't know how I'm gonna do that. I know. He's like a funky vampire magistrate, yes. Yeah.

He has a thing going on where he's a disco molester. There's something about the hair being that big that I think is really kind of almost scary in a way, only just because, like, how do you get it that big? Yeah. You grow it. You tease it. Most, okay, Henry, most times your hair just grows naturally. Shut up.

Shut the fuck up. I mean, like, Marcus and I don't think about it. No. I mean, I think about it. You think about your hair a lot more than we do. I have to. Someone has to. Well, when Rodney comes out from behind the curtain and puts his arm around Cheryl, you

can see her look at him twice. She looks once and then looks again and just looks for a little bit longer, and you can see her immediately decide, nah, no, not doing this. Now, the date was supposed to be tennis lessons and a trip to Magic Mountain. Fuck at it. Fuck yeah. Fuckin' love Magic Mountain. But after spending just a-

Nothing will be better than sex after tennis lessons and a trip to Magic Mountain. I am, you know, honestly, it's kind of nice to have a summer afternoon tennis roundabout. Good lord. But after spending just a few minutes with Rodney after the taping, Cheryl told dating game producers that she didn't feel comfortable being alone with him because he was creepy, and she refused the date. Yeah, man. Good for you, Cheryl.

Stand up for yourself. Yay. Well, she wasn't the only one at the dating game who got a vibe from Rodney. Jed Mills, a.k.a. Bachelor Number Two, he said he couldn't stand to be near Rodney and that he unconsciously bent away from Alcala during the taping. I will say, I do feel that Jed Mills protests a tad too much, according to, I believe it's the 2020, to the 2020 of the Dateline episode on this, where he was just like, I'll tell you what, he was rigged because he's tall.

He's tall. I knew him being like, you know, they can't tell. There's a wall. No, they can't see him. He's like, they don't know. Yeah. She should have chose me. I was the lonely one.

He should have had better answers. I could have been a banana. Yeah. Well, he didn't say it though, did you? Mills went on to say that while Rodney was quiet before the show, he would also interrupt and impose. He was obnoxious, rude, and unlikeable, as though he was trying to intimidate the other two contestants.

In fact, Mills said Rodney Alcala was the standout creepy guy in his life. Bachelor number three, however, Armand Sarami, see, he didn't think about Rodney Alcala at all. Nah, man, he's too cool for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Armand Sarami, fuck yeah, bro. Come on.

And he basically forgot about him until he finally heard the story of the dating game killer in 2010. And then he was like, wow. Wow. That's wild, baby. Whoa. Come on now. He was the bald one.

He was the cool one. He was the Armand as a threat. And so he didn't, he saw the other guy, he saw Mills as the threat, so he fucking went after him. But honestly, Armand Sarami, which they did cut the C off at the end, because if not, he didn't want to know that he was from the incredibly fabulous ceramic family. But Armand looked at the other two guys, and it was like, these guys are no competition for me.

Meanwhile, he looked like Mr. Mushnik. Yeah. I mean, you know, it wasn't the highest competition of all time. Now, just a few months after Rodney's appearance on the dating game, Jennifer Bianchi and Angelo Buono, the hillside stranglers, were finally arrested in Los Angeles after they had kidnapped, tortured, raped, and murdered 10 women between October of 1977 and February of 1978. Now, right in the middle of all that, Rodney Alcala had killed and posed Jill Barkham. And while police did assume that she was a hillside strangler victim, Jennifer and Angelo

denied having anything to do with it, meaning cops now had another serial killer on the loose during the worst serial killer spree Los Angeles had seen up to that point. Man, that must have been a lot for the hillside stranglers to be like, that wasn't us. I mean, imagine what it's like to be the LAPD at that point. The hillside stranglers are the absolute, it's the worst murders you've ever had come across to your fucking desk, and you think you've got the guys, you've got the guys, you have these 11 awful murders, it's buttoned up, man. And then you've got the worst one, the absolute worst one out of the whole pile.

And they say, we didn't do that one. And you realize this slow realization that there's another one. I guess I picked the wrong date and quit eating donuts. Oh my goodness, never quit donuts. And you have no idea who it is, like no leads whatsoever, because it's a brand new person as far as you're concerned, technically, or inspired by the hillside stranglers. But if you are a cop, you know what you just got? Job security.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Job security, more work to do. They're not quitting, they're not firing you today because you're drunk all the time on the job. So you're thanking serial killers and mass shooters for keeping police employed.

All I'm saying is they haven't led to many firings. So with investigators still nowhere close to Rodney, at least when it came to Jill Barkham, he continued his reign of terror. Even though investigators in New York were closing in on him as a suspect in the murder of Ellen Hover, but what's interesting is at this point Rodney Alcala suffered a temporary moment of conscience as serial killers sometimes do. In February of 1979, Rodney Alcala picked up a hitchhiking 15-year-old named Monique Hoyt and asked her to pose for some photos.

He told her, as he told many victims during this period, that he needed a model to pose for a photography contest, and if he won, the winnings would be split between him and his model. Meanwhile, this is 1979. As soon as two people split up, they never see each other ever again. Like, he doesn't have any contact, there's no contact information, like, you know, it was such a shady shit. Well, maybe if you feed her a nice dinner like a kuck shroom soup.

Are you just making up more sex foods from the beginning? It's a mushroom soup. Kuck shroom soup. That's weird. It doesn't even... It doesn't really work, but I mean... No, but it's fine. It is what it is.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. No, no, no. Cockchops. There you go. There's plenty of pork chops, but cockchops. I mean, that just sounds like Dick's... That doesn't...

Dick's cut off on a plate. A bunch of different kind of stuff. Pussy pie. There you go. Pussy pie. Very good. Very good. Very good.

Very good. Hot dogs. Look at that. Your answer would have just been hot dogs. I'm a hot dog. Oh, hot dogs. Boiled hot dogs. I'll choose bachelor number.

Parkus. Parkus Parks. If you borrow them, you get to eat them, too. And then you get all the scented water. I'm so happy they got the guy from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, too, to be one of my bachelors. Well, after Rodney charmed this girl, this Monique Hoyt, he told her that he needed to pick up some photography equipment at his mother's house and asked her to come along. Now, Monique Hoyt ended up staying the night without incident at Rodney's mom's house.

But the next morning, she and Alcala drove 80 miles east of LA to a deserted area outside the town of Banning. After 15 minutes of walking, Alcala began taking pictures. And before long, he was asking Monique to take what he called silly pictures. Like, say, for example, it'd be really silly and fun if you pulled your shirt up over your face. Silly. Silly and fun is like if she would walk like a duck.

Yeah, yeah, something like that. You're talking about making pornography. Yeah. Yeah. Which can't be silly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it can be funny. Yeah.

Now, Monique, thinking she was just having a good time, she did what Rodney asked. And while her vision was obscured, Rodney smashed her in the head with a tree branch, causing her to black out almost immediately. When she woke up, she followed her instincts and played dead. But after Rodney started raping her, she couldn't stay silent any longer and started screaming. Rodney then shoved a t-shirt into her mouth and choked her until she passed out. But when she woke up again, bound by her wrists and ankles, Rodney's demeanor had changed. Out of the monster he'd been before, Rodney was now sitting on the ground sobbing.

Rightfully thinking that this was the moment to gain his trust, Monique said that they didn't have to tell anyone what had happened. And then the smartest move she could have made, she said she'd be more than happy to go back to his mother's house to talk things over. Okay. I think that's an insanely smart move. Because had she said, just let me go, we'll never see each other again. Or saying, let's go back to your mom's house.

Let's talk about this. Right. It furthers the relationship a little bit. You can pretend as if like things are chill, things are okay maybe and then you can get yourself to a safe situation or at least you'd be in front of his mother and maybe hopefully they're not in cahoots. Yeah. Without saying a word, Alcala stood up and untied Monique Hoyt.

They walked to his car in silence, drove down the mountain and stopped at a convenience store for a soda. Rodney then said he needed to go to the bathroom. And the second that bathroom door was closed, Monique ran to the motel next door and screamed for the police. I mean, it's like devil's rejects. It is terrifying. She got back to safety and she was really smart and resourceful and got herself out of

there. And it's, it is, it's just fucked, right? Because in my mind, Rodney Alcala, I don't know if it's conscious. I wonder if it's, he's tired. I wonder if there's a tired thing. I wonder if they had this night because they had like quote unquote a consensual night together, right? Even though she's fucking 15 so she can't really consent, right?

So they had this consensual night and then in his mind it was like, I had this reality of a relationship. Like I had this, like it happened to me. Like I didn't have to bind this woman to the ship. Like it was all like, it was all quote unquote, like happening for real and that maybe you kind of like have this moment where you step back and you're like, what the fuck am I doing? Or did he just come as pants? Yeah, I think I was, I was thinking maybe he just came as pants because your idea, which

is valid, of course, that's a little, it's a little bit beauty in the base. True. It's a little too Disney for this disgusting, yeah, because he's a fucking monster. Yeah. And he did it a hundred times up to this point. So I don't really understand why this time is different than others. I bet you, you're right. I bet you he was just freaking tired.

He's like, I'm just so, they don't die as quick as they used to. I mean, seriously. Oh man. Yeah. I mean, I really have no idea. I mean, it might just be because he was tired, because he did take off as soon as Moni Coyt made it to the motel. He came back, saw she was gone, took off.

But what's baffling is that he didn't just leave town like he done before. Instead, he went back to his mother's house and just waited until the police came. I think he thought that he could charm his way out of the situation. But once the police arrived, he just limply denied the charges. Be him and haught about what he'd been doing that day. And when they weren't satisfied, of course, they just arrested him for rape and took him into custody without incident. I mean, he'd already beaten how many rape charges already?

Well, I know he hadn't beaten any of them. He just gone to prison for them. But yeah, he already, so he's already done this song and dance in a way. I feel like it's almost like a more familiar thing, just being like, I guess I can do another two years. Yeah. Right? Like that's what it comes down to because at the time they didn't fucking punish

rape for no fucking reason. Yeah. Now, this whole incident gives us a rare look into the mind of Rodney Alcala, although I'm not quite sure what it says. See, this crime is the only one that he ever explicitly admitted to the authorities. He said that the whole encounter had been consensual up to a point, which is something that Monique later said as well, despite the fact that, like Henry said, the whole idea of consent is skewed because of Monique's age.

But Rodney said that at one point she wanted him to stop, but he didn't. His excuse was that he was in a quote unquote, un-reasoning situation. And when she started screaming, he stopped thinking and let his worst instincts take over. Because then in this little kind of release valve, he can pretend as if this is the only time this has ever happened to me, even though he's talking to police officers that will then look at his criminal record, because I do think that there is a little bit of that. I think that he also kind of thought in his skewed mind that, oh, I'll just act like

this was like a momentary lapse into insanity. He might just be trying shit out, like trying out a nude method. Like maybe if I just admit to the rape, then I'll just, then I'll get away with just that and I don't have to worry about anything else. And that's the things that it did kind of sort of work, because even after he admitted to the assault and rape of a minor, a judge set Rodney's bail at just $10,000. That's all they got to post is a thousand. And after his mother immediately posted it, Rodney was back on the streets and tell his

trial in September, six months away. Well he is good and chastised then. Yeah, you can almost see the small welt on his wrist from getting slapped so hard. In those six months, Rodney would murder both a woman and a little girl. And that's just the crimes that we know about. Less than a month after Rodney was released on bail, he murdered a 21-year-old girl named Jill Parenteau in her apartment, likely by removing a window with the screwdriver and cutting through the screen to get inside.

When police found Jill's body during a welfare check, they found that she had been posed, strangled multiple times, raped, violated with a hammer, bitten, and severely beaten like all the others. But this time, Rodney had pointed a lamp towards the body to fully display the carnage, escalating his madness into something almost theatrical. He's a banana. He's a banana, yeah. For dinner.

Seamen toast crunch. Oh, God, that's awesome. That's the best one of all. That's the best one of all. I think it's the best one of all. It's the one that flows off the tongue. It does. Yeah.

Seamen toast crunch, yeah. Oh, God almighty. All right. Fruit poops. Fruit poops. Fruit poops. Fruit poops. Fruit poops are the old dealer special.

I don't know. Oh, man. How about just Chris-picks? I love a good Chris-picks. Chris-dicks. I mean, of course, that works as well. That's how you make it sexual. Yeah, of course.

Chris-plicks. Chris-plicks. Oh, Chris-plicks, clits. I'm happy we're fucking fighting some, you know, that's great humor, guys. This is great. RIP Norma Donald. I'm sorry, I just know I'm funny. I mean, we can't replace you.

Yeah, we can't replace you. No. Life from North Lamb. Days later, Rodney tried escalating once again by trying to take two victims at the same time. He approached two teenage girls at Huntington Beach while they were roller skating and gave the same song and dance about a photography prize. Oh my god, so you're telling me these two girls are roller skating and all of a sudden just whew, whew, whew.

What you guys doing? You guys roller skating, huh? Yeah, man. That's how it is. That's how it is. That's what happens. Oh my god. Ask women who roller skate.

Yeah. How often men must chase them. That's honestly. No, I know that's a fact. Yeah. Well, the girls agreed and had a pretty good time posing for fairly innocent pictures in public. But when Alcala asked for their phone numbers and addresses, they declined.

And when he asked if they wanted to, quote unquote, get loaded, they skated away. The next day, Rodney tried the same routine with two other teenage girls in the same location. But it seems like Rodney's charm was starting to fade away because these girls also declined. I imagine he gets real desperate real fast. I imagine he does. But he also might be one of those fucking like shotgun guys, the guys that go and just talk to woman after woman after woman after woman and tell one of them says yes. Yeah.

Well, undeterred, Alcala continued searching Huntington Beach that same day and eventually found Bridget Wilvert and Robin Samso, both aged 12. They agreed to take pictures. But a beachgoer named Jackie Young noticed that a quote unquote weirdly dressed man was inappropriately touching these girls while he was taking their pictures. When this good Samaritan asked the young girls if they were OK, Alcala packed up his equipment and briskly walked away. So fucking weird.

So weird. Thinking that was the end of it, the two girls went their separate ways. Bridget Wilvert made it home, but Robin Samso didn't. I actually had a good conversation with both my wife Natalie and our friend Sonia that both professionally modeled for a while. And I asked them like, what is your instinct? Like what do you guys do to avoid like this? How do you avoid getting murdered by a photographer?

How do you tell? Well, don't be 12 evidently. I mean, definitely not. It's an impossible thing to avoid. But I thought that this was an interesting way to talk about like, you know, like ask me like, so how do people avoid this? And number one, listen to fellow models was a thing that they said, if you find out somebody's creep you find out like through the network of people, like ask people that have worked

with them, look for a portfolio, look at also that the other shit. And Sonia had a good point where she said, always ask if you can bring somebody and see what their reaction is. And that's how you know if they are a full creep or not, because no one should object to you bringing somebody to the shoot. And twins. Yeah. Because then you'd say it'd be nice because then you got a guy there.

He's having fun. Sure. He's bringing him. Duncan. Good advice. Absolutely. Carry some, be there with some friend. Yes.

Now, we don't know how Rodney tracked Robin down or how he convinced her to get in his car. But the last person to see them before Rodney Kilder was a US Forestry Service seasonal firefighter named Dana Crappa. She was working a, I know, it's, I mean, it's, what are you going to do? It's just, there's no other way to say it's either Crapa, Crapa maybe. I don't think it is. Crapa.

Crapa is the weirdest name I've ever heard. If your name is Dana Crapa, it means your name is Dana Crapper. It could be, it could be. She was working a five day shift in the San Gabriel Mountains, driving up Santa Anita Canyon Road when she saw a Dotson station wagon park near the road. Dana noted this because she had that same car, which is something I also do when I see fellow outbackers outbacking around. This is not about Subaru.

Marcus, how do you shoehorn your love for the Subaru into this horrendous story? It's a shoehorn and my friend. That was a shoehorn. That was not a shoehorn. She loves that. That was some Cinderella shoving a shoe into, shoving a foot into a shoe. Listen, all right. He got that Subaru for free because of little in ad, in show ads.

This isn't the insert that we didn't know about? Marcus Parks drives a Subaru. Oh my God. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. They would love, they would love the placement of this ad by the way. But what Crapa should have noted, more than the shared automobile was the dark-haired man with long, weird, curly hair, forcefully steering a blonde girl towards a dry stream

bed. Alcala turned and looked straight through Crapa, but Crapa did nothing that day. Now when Robin Samso wasn't home by midnight, her parents filed a missing persons report while Rodney took his dots in the very next day to get the carpet in the floorboards changed because he claimed that he'd spilled gasoline in the car. No. How would you do that? This is my friend Gasoline.

He sits in the passenger seat so I can drive in the... My thing is, is that honestly, it's mostly just my personal smell that sometimes affects it very, supposed to be inside of a car. Oh, Gasoline. Isn't that nice? You're a good buddy. Then I can drive in the carpool and get to work a little faster. Yeah, yeah.

Then you'd leave me outside, no? Thanks, Gasoline. You're my favorite friend. By 10 p.m. that night, the day after Rodney killed Robin Samso, Alcala called his girlfriend, Elizabeth Keller. See, like Ted Bundy, Rodney Alcala had a steady girlfriend during many of his murders. But unlike Ted, Rodney had started seeing Elizabeth just after he'd been arrested and charged with rape.

Oh my God, it's just unbelievable. Why would you do this? You know, and again, Rodney Alcala does this type of shit where, again, having a girlfriend while you kill other girls is a serial killer's way of feigning normalcy. And I think that we've talked about this several times about how, to me, the truly dangerous serial killers are the ones that having a normal life is a part of their sexual game. Yeah. And Rodney Alcala is definitely one of those people.

I mean, and also it's, you know, it is 1979. He can hide that he's got a rape trial coming up. He's got six months. I guess he's got six months and he's got to get past Christmas, right? They're just looking cuffing season. Oh, is that right? Well, that's not good for this guy. Seems like every season is cuffing season for Dickhead Alcala.

You better not be too funny. You'll die. I know. No, that's why I'm going to live a long, long time, hopefully. Well, apparently Rodney and Elizabeth had met each other at a bar in April of 1979, a month after Rodney's latest rape arrest. And Elizabeth was smitten with this photographer of no small talent because she was a photographer as well.

I don't remember. There's no Google. You know, there's no way to just like quickly look up somebody. You know, she would have to go to a police station or a library and look through microfeesh to find something on this guy. I would say that if I could time travel back to 1977, I'd tell more women to go like, check the microfeesh. Just sound like a lunatic screaming.

Check the microfeesh. Screaming in the town square, check the microfeesh. Honestly, I screamed, check the microfeesh at various people on the street yesterday. That's a great idea. Check the microfeesh. I used to love doing that when we were in school. Oh, I like that too. I like microfeesh and microfish.

It was something like that. Well, what Rodney didn't realize is that he'd spent a little too much time at Huntington Beach on the day of Robin Samsoe's murder. Multiple people had come forward about the oddly quaffed man who'd spent his day taking pictures of teenagers. He legitimately was not someone who, he was not someone who faded into the background. Over like six foot four with his hair. Like that's how pronounced it was.

He dressed wildly and very similar to Unterweger. You remember like that same thing because he's a very, on the psychopath scale, he gets 10 out of 10 glibness, right? Where he gets that thing where he just thinks he's the shit. If he was at some kind of function that allowed for or that was suitable to wear pants and a jacket at, he may have fit in. It's just he's at the beach looking like he's about to go to the DMV. Yes.

And when a composite sketch was released that looked quite a bit like Rodney Alcala, big weird hair and all, Rodney took steps to change his appearance. First he chemically straightened his hair. Hey man, Ted Bundy fucking reversed the part. Yeah, man. I mean, that's the thing. He's straightening. Yeah, fucking it.

It takes years to get hair like that. It would have been so much easier to cut the hair, so much easier, but okay. Yeah, I mean, he wanted to keep the hair, man, at least for a little bit, but when the long straight hair looked ridiculous, I mean, you probably look like a skinny ass Fabio. Yeah, he truly probably looked like a shaman from Cleveland. Oh my gosh. Like a guy you can get ayahuasca from in Ohio. No one will ever, no one's a shaman.

No one is a shaman. Unless you are in Peru, you have to be in South America to meet one. No one can teach you veganism and dare I say no one can even teach you guitar. No one teaches anything. But after that look ridiculous, Rodney cut his hair short. Meanwhile, going off a tip given by firefighter Dana Crappa, investigators found the body of Robin Samso a little less than two weeks after the murder. Thankfully, and oddly though, Alcalas seemed to have killed his last victim without all

the pomp and circumstance, because when Samso's body was found, she'd simply been strangled and left to decompose in the forest, no posing, no rape, nothing like that. He's given up the ghost. Just strangled and left. I really do think he's given up the ghost. He's trying to figure out a way to either ship demos or he's going into an inert period. He's going to go into one of those where you go into a valley where they talk about serial killer behavior all the time and then you'd pick back up a year later after you swear.

This is the last one. I'll never do this again. It sounds like someone opening up a box of Krispy Kreme, but in this case, it is not. You know what? It doesn't sound like someone opening a box. No, I said it all the time. This is my last one. Yeah, it is.

But then you always have one. Yeah, but it's not a dead girl. No, that's what I'm saying. It's different. I'm just saying this is simple. But it's also, it's just so... Yeah, you know what? It's fine.

Yeah, it's fine. It is. I'll go with it. I'm going to start saying that more often with Kissel because of the Irishman. I want to say thank you to the Irishman for giving me a new mob phrase. It is. What it is. I can't believe he was able to write that.

And how much of that movie cost him anything? Why'd you say he's a filmist? He's still a filmist. It is what it is. It is good. It is a good film. Wow, that is incredible. I heard the movie is what it is.

It's so brilliant. What it is is very... You should see it. So brilliant. You should see it. The Irishman. Wow. But even though Rodney had taken steps to change his appearance, he still knew that he was

but a few short steps from a jail cell. So Rodney began the process of once again leaving Los Angeles until the heat died down. He told his girlfriend that he'd been thinking of moving to Dallas to open a photography studio. And he told her that he was taking a trip down south to check out the town. But instead of going to Dallas, Rodney drove to Seattle. There, he rented a storage locker to hide the trophies he'd taken from his victims, namely earrings, and to hide his archive of photos that he'd taken himself, which neared 2,000

in there. Damn. And I tell you what, y'all, if you really want to experience what it's like to be in the mind of Henry Zabrowski, honestly, just like what I say you do is, first of all, drink coffee until about 7 p.m. That's a great idea. Then start powering the Scotch. Then you start...

I'd say you first need two healthy glasses of Scotch. Maybe watch some marriage at first sight. Then go into some private area and just with your glass of Scotch and some sativa, just pour through the hundreds of pictures that are available on the internet that Rodney Alcala had in the storage unit. And then you slowly become Matthew McConaughey from True Detective, like inside of your own home. That's the experience if you wanted.

So you think about running for governor of Texas? I wish. But honestly, if you want to feel like you're living in a storage unit but you're inside of your own home, that's the way to do it. Oh my gosh. True crime storage wars. I think we've mentioned that before. It's a horrible storage container to get.

Save that pitch. True crime. No, you watch it. It's already being made, I'm sure. Oh yeah. I mean, only a fraction of these photos were ever released to the public because they wanted to see if people could identify victims because they knew Alcala had so many more than 10. And it's actually through that release that police linked Rodney to the murder in Montana

that we discussed last episode. And these pictures are fucking creepy. I mean, most of these pictures were of smiling girls flirting with the camera. They're usually in public, but not always. And most of the time, they look like they're having a great fucking night. Oh yeah, dude. And because I've been listening to No Dogs in Space, the Joy Division series, like there's something about like playing, putting these songs and putting these pictures in like a

slideshow while love will tear us apart is like playing over it that really adds to the darkness of it. You wait. You wait until Joy Division is a part of the U.S. military and they just smile. They scream at you as you walk out and you're like, smile, be happy. I don't really enjoy the police state that we're living in. Smile. You can say whatever you want as long as you're smiling.

Put on closer. That one will really fuck you up looking at these pictures. Just start going through really fast when isolation comes on and you'll get all fucked up. And then if you don't watch them like Clark Rizwald and start weeping and remembering the good times. We'll save the time, yeah. But in certain series of photos, Rodney would capture the moment that happiness turned to

fear right when the girls realized that Rodney was not what he appeared to be. Other photos never released to the public show women in various states of consciousness. One photo that was accidentally released showed a girl limply draped over a tree branch with her eyes half closed. She was most likely dead. But after Seattle, Rodney made a fatal mistake. Instead of going straight to Dallas, he returned to his mother's home back in Los Angeles. And he was soon arrested naked in the middle of the night for the murder of Robin Samsoe.

Woo! Wow, they did something. Is this going to stick though? I hope it sticks. It is interesting. He's a nude sleeper. Nude sleeper. I mean, so is Marcus.

No, I love to. I'm a whatever. Whatever happens. You're in charge of whatever happens. No, I know. But sometimes you wake up and then if you're underwear off, because you can hide at night or you take your shirt off. I get it.

I get it. Yeah, I get it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now naturally, his mother and stepfather were absolutely shocked when their loving son was carted out of their home in handcuffs. But they were even more surprised by all the weird shit police found in Rodney's room. Check. They didn't.

You're older. You're older listener. If you're an older listener and you have a, I mean it's because they just say son, who's over 30 years old, who lives in the other room and you never see what's in that room. It's your house still. It's your house. You go in that fucking room right now. You go in that room right now and you go look and see what's in that room.

It's mostly just going to be calm, all right? And that's fine. And that should be allowed. You should be allowed to come in there. What else does he have? I don't know. No, if you have, if you go in there and you find a collection of cum bottles, cum socks, cum boxes.

That's him. He has to have that. I don't think you need to harbor cum in your room. Yeah. If there's standing cum, you need to have that conversation with her. That's a different conversation to have. Sure. Just make sure that everything's good in there.

Among other things, police found in Rodney Alko's room at his mom's house, a pair of handcuffs, pieces of rope, eight issues of a porno mag called young and naked. Yay. A leather. I love articles. Incredible. Yeah. The best ways to get your neighbors to hopscotch with you.

I love that article. Found a leather bullwhip, a pair of pink panties with black tape on each side, 1200 photos, negatives and slides, and a superfluous frizzy black wig. Why did he need the frizzy black wig? Can I postulate it's because he cut his hair and he missed his hair? And then he puts the wig on and he's just like, why'd fuck me? Then he's back to normal. He can put that wig on.

He's like, that's the Rodney I know. Good work, rapist. You know, high-fives himself. The Hedvick cops only had the witness statements and what they'd found in his room. Rodney Alkala might not have even gone to trial, but what Rodney didn't know was that police routinely listened in on jailhouse phone calls, especially when they're looking for evidence. As such, they heard Rodney telling his sister in Spanish to go clean out his storage locker

in Seattle. I guess he thought nobody in the fucking LAPD spoke Spanish. Not a good look. Yeah, you got to like speak Klingon or something if you want to have a language that's secret. Spanish is the most spoken language in the world. That's actually how many more crimes are we going to see happening in Elvish because of this. When police finally found that storage locker, they found several earrings in a jewelry pouch

that were eventually matched to multiple murder victims, as well as many pairs of earrings that have never been matched to anyone, and 1,700 negatives and slides, including one marked Tali Rape and another series named Ode to New York by John Berger. With that, Rodney was charged with kidnapping, loot acts upon a child, murder, and robbery. Step again, Rodney Alcala's 31-year-long dance with the American legal system. Oh, Ben, you're going to fucking love this. Can't wait. Yeah, man, because this is definitely where it's all smooth sailing.

He actually got totally, he recouped himself, he's still in prison, but he was good in prison and he made benches and military goods for our wonderful military servicemen and women. I wonder why, I wonder if he modeled, I wonder if he modeled himself specifically after Ted Bundy, because there are so many Bundy-like qualities. Well, did he even know enough about Bundy at this point? It was in the news, right? At this point, I'm trying to think what the time period was. It's about the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if you needed them. It's a very similar timeline. Because I feel like he's either watching the news and understanding, oh, I can also get my narcissist supply and all the shit that I need, and I can continue my game in court. Like I can, now I'm bringing the court, I'm bringing my game to the legal system. He just sets up the dating game, but in court where the judge sits on one side and it's he with two other plaintiffs or something, I'm a banana, I'm a banana, two other defendants or something.

I mean, kind of sorta, he does get his narcissistic kicks out like 30 years later, a long, long time later, but I think for the most part, it's just about avoiding the death penalty. He just doesn't want to die. Oh, poor man. Poor baby. That actually makes me more fucking pissed off, because it's like some serial killers are like, please kill me, I'm fine with it, but like the fact that he had preservation of life for himself, which means he had an understanding that death sucks, is really

fucking horrible. Yeah. Now, the process, I actually never thought of it that way before. Yeah, right. It's like the only person he ever had sympathy for. He's himself. Yeah. Now, the prosecution's biggest problem with trying Alcala for Robin Sampson's murder

was that there was no physical evidence linking Rodney Alcala to the crime, but the prosecution did have the testimony of firefighter Dana Krapa and the testimony of a couple of jail house snitches. See, while Rodney never admitted anything to the police or to the press, he was pretty free with the details of the Robin Sampson murder when he was speaking to fellow inmates. Well, we probably thought he was the coolest guy around. Well, it notes again, he downplays it. He does the whole thing where he's just like, I'm a reasonable guy.

Yeah. He told them he'd slapped her unconscious, then killed her with a rock. All while describing the murder as quote, a weird situation. It is pretty weird. A developing situation. Yeah, but it's weird. It's weird because when it comes down to it, you never really tell me when I'm killing a girl.

I said, don't just think about this. Weird. Yeah, so odd. Yeah. In addition to those testimonies, the prosecution was also allowed to use all of Rodney's past crimes in service of proving that he was not only capable of such a thing, but likely to do it. And so when the defense gave their closing statements, they said that the prosecution

had proved that Alcala was a bad man and they proved that this was a bad crime. But they had not proved that Mr. Alcala killed Robin Sampson. Thankfully though, after a 12 week long trial, Rodney Alcala was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to death while the courtroom audibly cheered the decision. But that was merely the first of Rodney Alcala's three trials. Wow. Yeah, dude. By August of 1984, the California Supreme Court overturned Alcala's death penalty conviction

because it was their opinion that Rodney's past convictions weren't pertinent to the Robin Sampson case. It seems like it. And it therefore poisoned the jury. Oh my God. Ben, seriously, listen to this reasoning. Specifically, they said that the alleged similarities between Rodney's past defenses and the murder of Robin Sampson are common to a substantial portion of the child molester population.

Therefore, since any old child molester could have done it, talking about Rodney's past crimes were prejudicial. I just think about this idea that child molesting is this like C-team crime, like stealing gum. You know what I mean? Like this idea that child molesting would just be like, and half of us are child molesters are. Think about this. Who hasn't molested a child in this audience?

I'm for one M1. You know what I mean? What are you going to do? Yeah. I mean, that is unbelievable. I mean, I guess it wouldn't have been pertinent to this case if his former crimes were like farting on a police officer. Like if his former crimes were totally different, like running the light at the comedy club.

Sure. Running onto the stage and tackling your least favorite basketball player or running onto the court. Like it seems fairly indicative of a habit. But what their argument was is that, you know, luring a child, you know, bringing them in under false pretenses, isolating them. They're like, that's just what a child molester does. And so if that's just what a child molester does, any child molester could have done it.

So since any child molester could have done this, we can't talk about this because, you know, Rodney Alkala is just, he's your regular run of the mill child molester. I mean, look at his hair. And the California Supreme Court was like, yep, sounds good to us. All right. So in 1986, Rodney's second trial began. But while the prosecution still had no physical evidence, the jury still found Alkala guilty on all counts.

And again, he was sentenced to death. By 1990, Rodney still hadn't admitted to a single murder, but he still gave a two hour long interview about what life was like on death row, comparing it to a night in the early 60s when the back tire of his motorcycle blew out. Man. So it's like, do you know what it's like? Cause you went and you had that flat tire. So it was like, you were on death row.

Death row is so much like having a flat tire, then you call your friend who comes and helps you and then everything is fine. It takes about 20 minutes. Just like that. Yeah. Well, he said the fear he felt that night as he struggled to regain control was the same fear he felt on death row, but writ large and drawn out over a series of years. He went on to say that he liked playing backgammon and scrabble with the other death row inmates

and insisted that his favorite movie was when Harry met Sally. Yeah. Tracks. Tracks. Always the weirdos who love like the most like, it's a rom-com. I'm just a rom-com. Kind of guy. I just like Billy Crystal.

He's a massive Billy Crystal fan. He's always been. It's also strange that he described death row as if he was vacationing at a log cabin. By 1994, Rodney Alcala had written and self-published a book called You, the Jury. In this 300-page plea for innocence, Rodney published the entire transcript from his second trial and then added his own notes, refuting witness statements and prosecutor arguments. This is just like Howard Stern's new book. It's all old interviews.

He didn't write anything. Other than what? There are notes. They're notes. That's it. It's a compilation of notes. The beginning of Howard Stern's book is just him complaining about having to write a book. Yes.

Yes, he is lazy. Rodney's book is sort of like the example, like the golden example of a self-published book from a man on death row. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because it is that. The idea of halting reality, because it's the ultimate thing that a narcissist slash psychopath wants to do at all times, right?

Like the movie Remote Control or something like that, where you can pause and be like, and this is where she's wrong and why I'm a genius and he can do that on his own transcript. Don't you bring Zach Morris into this, man? He called time out because he wanted to clear stuff up with the audience. Yes. But imagine if Zach Morris was also a multiple, multiple child molester and murderer, and I do often think that. We haven't seen Saved by the Bell after college.

Saved by the Bell, the unemployment line. Yeah, the prison years. At the end of the book, Alkala stated that there was no evidence linking him to the murder of Robin Samso. This was his final summation. The people have attempted to deceive you. Fundamental American fairness requires that I get a fair trial, unlike the trial I got in 1986.

That trial continues to mock, with apparent impunity, our unequaled American system of justice and our great constitution. Gosh, when I grab him by the ankle, I'm slamming against all of the walls of his isolated prison cell. I'll kill you again. I know. You're going to roll that down. No, definitely not.

You're going to want to delete that one. Included with this plea was a 71-question yes-no feedback survey that readers could fill out and send to Alkala at San Quentin, as well as an order form where readers could request another copy of You the Jury for $24.50. He invented Substack. Wow. Now, Rodney's sentence should have held up, but because the California legal system apparently had nothing better to do, a higher court issued another reversal on Alkala's 1986 conviction.

This one is almost more infuriating because it's such a technicality. They overturned it because Dana Krapa's testimony from the first trial was read out at the second trial without Dana Krapa being present. On some level, I have to thank these systems for existing, because who knows when we'll need them? Of course. Who knows when we'll need this shit? You get railroaded at trial, how many times we talk about this people, innocent people

go to jail all the time. You wonder, you're stuck on the system, you want to get out, and you know you're innocent, but it's just fucked that the same system exists for Rodney Alkala. That's the thing is that it just seems like people like Rodney Alkala are the ones who get the fucking slot, that the people who actually deserve to get out, and the people that are in prison for truly unjust things, those are the ones who don't get in line. It is interesting because I also feel like there's a certain amount of an unscrupulous edge that helps, you know what I mean?

That shark mentality really helps. And I think it's also, sometimes I think they want to be seen to be doing something, and this takes up a good amount of time without actually having to fucking do anything at all. Dad, you just get to be in the law library, like you just get to be out of your cell, you get to be doing these things, you have meetings, you get to see people outside of the jail, you get to do all of these things. He's got his girlfriend probably, he still visits him in jail, he gets to talk to somebody

who's not just Sir Hans Suran, you know what I mean? But just a year after that conviction was overturned, California passed a law allowing investigators to take DNA samples from prisoners, and Alkala's DNA was quickly matched to four more murders. By the time Alkala's third trial for the murder of Robin Samso began in 2005, it was deemed that Rodney would stand trial for all five murders at the same time. Wait, hold on one second, you guys are telling me it's going to get worse at this trial then, huh?

It's not in any better, is that right? So more crimes. More crimes. I didn't write that in the book, I didn't write that in the book. Rodney, being a narcissist, took the route that oh so many serial killers eventually do when they decide that they're the smartest person in the room. For Rodney's last trial, he chose to represent himself at the age of 62. And you know, he's got to one up it though.

He should become the judge. I'm the judge. I am the judge. Now judge, you're on trial, judge. See how this works. He's like, well, according to California law, it holds. Okay, judge. I'm the criminal.

Yeah, it's now we have to play this out. Eerie, eerie, all rise for Judge Banana. But Rodney Alkala does sort of look like a guy who sells pewter, like pewterfignoreans professionally. In this, he looks sort of like old guy at the metal show. Yeah. Oh yeah, a little bit. Not to demise any of the old guys at the metal show.

No, but he's got super long. He's got super, super long gray hair, like a little tiny guy. That's more of the famous picture that we've all seen circulating a little bit. Now with Alkala representing himself, as well as, you know, having the DNA evidence in there, the prosecution basically had a layup. And when a witness during the third trial laid out everything that Rodney had done to his victims, one by one by one, he had no questions. But then Dr. Sharon Schnittker took the stand.

She'd been the coroner in 1977 who'd done the autopsy for Jill Parenteau. And she gave horrific details on the stand about Parenteau's injuries, including torn corners on Parenteau's mouth. And that's when Rodney Alkala felt like it was his time to shine in the courtroom. He began by asking Dr. Schnittker about those tears. And Dr. Schnittker replied that they were most likely caused by forcible oral copulation. This, without any embellishment whatsoever, is the exchange that Rodney and Dr. Schnittker had following Dr. Schnittker's reply.

Henry shall be playing Rodney, I shall be playing Dr. Schnittker. The role that Marcus was always meant to play, Dr. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker.

Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. Schnittker. And the biggest joke for this episode is sex food names. I'm sorry, Yerisha Lin is... Could her mouth have been stretched in some other way to cause that type of injury?

I suppose it could've been caused by soft cloth gag, tied somewhere around the head. If it were, from forced oral copulation, would it indicate a large diameter penis? Oh my god. Or would it be consistent with a small diameter penis? Generally, if oral copulation were consensual, you would not get abrasions at the corner of the mouth. I don't have any idea what the size of the penis would be, other than, I would say, within the realm of a normal, you know, 98% of size of penises.

Okay, okay, okay. Now let's consider a possibility here. Let's say you have a toasted hero sandwich, right? Sort of like a French piece of bread, sliced down the middle, down the center, and with some salami, or whatever in there, that you put that in your mouth. Could that scrape, in other words, how do what extent was the scrape marks on the edges of the mouth? Very small.

So it's consistent then, with sticking a hero sandwich into your mouth. You know what I'm talking about? A hero sandwich. It's like a loaf of bread, split down the middle, it's rounded, toasted, you put it in your mouth. Yeah, we know what it is. They're pretty big. They're wide.

They're scraped, because those types of marks, that's a sandwich scrape. I wouldn't think so. Have you ever had a big hero sandwich? What the fuck are we talking about? Sure, I've had, sure, I've had a lot of big sandwiches. They are bigger than the mouth. Right, you do not tend to injure yourself as a general rule intentionally. You're not forcibly jamming it down your mouth.

You tend to take a bite-sized piece. Objection, Your Honor, this person has never been to an Italian yard party? They've never been to a party in Queens, so they don't know what it's like to have a big sub. That might be true. That was Rodney's only major cross-examination during the entire trial. This idea that he's sitting there, that he thinks he can fool the judge, but what about a big sandwich?

Yeah, what about everything else, because a sandwich can't tie a shirt around your neck and strangle you? I don't know. Have you met a rapist sandwich? No. His other big contribution was when Alkala called himself to the stand as a witness for the defense. Yeah, man.

This is like, this is when it gets into. It almost is like, why do we allow this? I mean, you're allowed to defend yourself. I know, but again, man, I guess these are the people that use this system, right? It's normally people like you either are a Supreme Court lawyer or some bullshit, right? But half the time, big-time lawyers get a lawyer, right? They don't defend themselves. You've always been a lawyer.

Always. Always. Always. This is actually one of the dumbest laws we have that you're allowed to defend yourself. You're allowed to. I know you're allowed to, but there should be a requirement that says if you have a certification from the bar. I guess so.

If you're bar certified, then you can represent yourself. Because you know what it is? It's not that, to be honest, it's not about obviously you know it's a slam dunk. This fucking moron's going to go to jail for doing this to himself, but isn't this just a waste of everybody's money and time? Yeah. Rodney Alkala, defense lawyer, spent five hours questioning Rodney Alkala, defendant. How to go.

He had two different hats. He had two different hats and two sets of glasses. Here are some examples of those questions. Henry, if you would. What was the next phone call you made, Mr. Alkala? Mr. Alkala, after you spent time with your sister and her kids, what did you do? Rodney. No, tell me.

Would you please tell us about your hair? Okay, Mr. Alkala, so that completes Tuesday, June the 19th. What did you do on June the 20th? June the 20th was the day that Robin Sampson was murdered, and while Rodney would go into great detail about the days before and the days after, he never had much to say about the day of the murder itself. Because it seems like if he did, he'd have to describe the whole crime and the thing that he did.

Right. In fact, when Rodney made his closing statements, he didn't mention the other four women he was on trial for murdering at all, and barely even mentioned Robin Sampson. See, what we have here, what we have here, jurors. This is a massive, massive rug. Look at this. Look at this rug. Now here, little sweeper.

You see the little pile of dust right there? Lift up the rug. Shouldn't be clear. Couldn't be clear, folks. Let's put it all in the rug. Have you ever had a big sandwich? Have you ever had a big sandwich? I'm going to actually eat this big sandwich in front of you right now.

The guy who started Quizno, the guy who started Quizno is in the back, and he's just like, yeah, Roberto Quizno, and he's like, toasted the thigh, and we cheese. Quizno sucks, because they are good for me. Again to no one's surprise, Rodney Alka was found guilty. Interestingly though, during the penalty phase, Charlize Theron was seen in the audience. Why? Researching her role in Monster as Eileen Warno. Every actor needs to be arrested.

Just stop. Every actor needs to be out of here. You don't belong in Supreme Court trials. They just need to be put somewhere. They just, actors need to, just, just, oh. This is not about you studying how to be fucking Eileen Warno, this is all the victims of this man who's a maniac. All the fucking cameras are pointed to her fucking ass.

Oh, yeah? Oh, God. Oh, thank you so much for being there. Making scary faces. How do I make this entire thing a fucking clown show? Maybe I'll show up. As far as what Rodney did to try and save himself from the death penalty, he inexplicably played a portion of Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie.

What? Arlo Guthrie. Yeah. He was trying to explain his behavior without actually admitting to what he'd done. Ben, have you ever heard Alice's Restaurant? Of course. I know Arlo Guthrie. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, it's a purposefully rambling 18-minute long satire about the hypocrisy of the Vietnam War. It's very standard hippie shit. Folk. Yeah. But for, yeah. But for reasons that no one seems clear on, this is the excerpt that Rodney played.

See the psychiatrist room 604, and I went up there, I said, shrink, I want to kill. And I want, I want to kill, kill, I want, I want to see, I want to see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat, death, burn, bodies. I mean, kill. Kill, kill, kill. I started jumping up and down yelling, kill, kill, and it started jumping up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, kill, kill.

And the sergeant came over, came to me and said, sit me down, I'm all set, you're our boy. And he just, he just said their plan and then he looks at the jury and goes, huh? Huh? Pretty nice that the jury was sitting there just dancing a little bit, just a little bit of dancing. A little shuffle, yeah. And interestingly, I just noticed Arlo Guthrie and Rodney Alkola have the same haircut.

Isn't that nice? It's definitely not the, it's definitely not lyrics that would mean, if I heard those lyrics as a juror, I would not be like, maybe he's innocent. No. It seems like he is admitting again that he's a mass murderer, total psychopath. It might be the most honest he's ever been. Weirdly. Maybe.

Arlo was a very honest musician. But I feel like it's, he kind of did say it. He just said, I would, if you, to ask me what I wanted to do, I'd want to kill and kill and kill. Because you know, like, instead of with the, the like, little black box laughter in it, if you took the laughter out of it and you just like made it like a silence, a deadly silence, then yes, there might be closer to the jury. Something with the laughter makes it so much more chilling.

Well, yeah, especially played in court. Yeah, exactly. If you're Arlo, you're just like, whoa, I didn't expect the song to be used for that, but okay. We're just happy to have a listener. Well, after that baffling move, Rodney read a letter from his mother. How he was never a problem. It was always such a quiet, sensitive, studious, good boy.

He also read testimonies from corrections officers who called him a model prisoner, as well as testimony from two friends who called him, quote, a man very much worth saving. And then he played a clip from, I like big butts and I cannot lie. And I cannot lie, but he was lying this entire time. Yes, because he does like a thin butt. Isn't that a lie, this entire trial seems like a massive lie. In the end of it though, none of it had an impact. Rodney Alcala was sentenced to death for a third time.

And in 2012, he also pled guilty to the 1971 murder of Cornelia Criley and the 1977 murder of Alan Hover. And that's the closest he ever came to admitting responsibility. It is. He was also charged with the murder of Christine Thornton in Montana and has since been directly linked to other murders in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, New Hampshire, and Arizona. Wow.

But by the time he was linked to those murders, Rodney Alcala was in his 70s. And from later pictures I've seen, pretty fucking far gone. Yeah, he was sick for a while. Nobody could see the point in prosecuting anything further. And just this last July, Rodney Alcala died of natural causes at the age of 77, which was a far better death than what one of the most prolific serial killers in American history ever deserved. Damn.

Absolutely. He didn't give his victims any second chance or third chance. That man is a fucking horrible, horrible creature and he needs to be, he should have been killed like a banana. He should have been put in a dehydrator, maybe just peeled from top to bottom. Yes. Just smash him with a car tire. There's a lot of things.

All right. Rodney Alcala. Very scary man. Such a scary story. I didn't realize how depraved he just was because we get these watered down versions on every damn show that you see on TV. Of course. That man is, wow.

Jesus Christ. He did not deserve to live to 77. Norm died at 61. I know. We keep saying this, man. I'm not going to do this. I'm not doing this. Who would have thought?

He didn't deserve a damn breath. No. All right. Thanks so much for listening. What a very interesting story. Again, be very wary of your local photographer. Check up your references several times. No one needs a photographer anymore.

Everyone has phones. Everything is better than any picture that was ever taken in human history right now. You can do it. If you want to, if you're an aspiring model or if you are a current model, honestly, a photographer can be helpful. But check the resources. Check the references. Get the portfolio and ask other people what it's like to work with us.

It can just be your friend now. It could be. I remember the super at my old building got into big trouble for turning our building into a porno shoot. But she got into trouble for other things as well. He also recently just got arrested for hiding cameras in tenant's apartments. Yeah. So again.

Yeah. The seeds were planted. And when it comes to photographers again, if you see a Polaroid camera, they're a killer. Never go up. If you see anyone with the Polaroid camera, I don't trust them. The only place you should see a Polaroid camera is at a fun little like kiosk during a wedding. That's it. That's it.

Or Instax or one of those if you're going to get it from like one of the like the sultry websites. You can get those mail to your house. All right. But guys, next week, we have a subject that is going to be very, very interesting, probably honestly closer to one of the more darker subjects we've ever covered, which I think is going to be very interesting. It's also a precursor to a series that we will be doing next year in terms of charting

a certain activity and the way sometimes people in authority can manipulate the minds of the young. What are you talking about? It's going to be very interesting. I'm very excited because it's right before we head into Halloween season. Yes. Because I thought it was coming. Yes.

Yes. My titties. My titties are filled with flunky and grainy cords. My options are still Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, Leatherface, Big Nun. You are so good at Big Nun. Yeah. I might just do Big Nun again. It's going to be fun.

Guys. Thanks for supporting all the shows here on the network. Also, we have some new information. You can find it on our Instagram regarding our weed vapes. Those are in a few more places now. We got new spots. We got Roots up in the valley. We got Hyropath.

Love Roots. We've got that's in Sherman Oaks. We're really excited. Also, this is all those are both LA. We got live shows coming up next week. Woo. Can't wait to see you there. We're going to be in OKC.

We're going to be in Sacktown, Sacramento. Sacktown. We're going to be in Salt Lake City. So excited to be back in SLC. It's been such a long time. We are in a salty weekend between Sacktown and Salt Lake City. Yeah. We're going to have a lot of salty flavors in our mouth.

Can't wait to go to Salt Lake City because last time we played Salt Lake City, we hadn't yet done our series on the Mormons. So I'm excited to go and wander around all those weird ass buildings that they have and see if I can maybe spy some ceremonies. I did that the last time. I did that last time too. It's really interesting because there are more welcoming than the Scientologists only just because they want you to see like they invited me inside even though I was like wearing

like I'm wearing this Champions of Hell shirt. I definitely was wearing something with like a devil and a dead woman on it and they still keep me in there. Yeah. But guys, yes. And I also want to thank everyone who donated to the last prisoner project at Larson from Brighter Side. He did a fantastic job.

He put on a great mugshot roast that we all took part in. We raised 7,500 bucks for a great cause as we talk about people who belong behind bars such as Alcala. Some people, many people do not as we have a monetized private prison system that is absolutely devastating, making money off of the suffering of others is not good. So thank you all so much for donating to the last prisoner project and yeah, keep on supporting all the shows here on the last podcast network. Okay, everyone.

Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose.

My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose. My goose.

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