Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 473: Anneliese Michel Part I - The Devil Is Inside You

Episode Date: November 13, 2021

This week we begin the story of one of the most infamous cases of "demonic possession" ever recorded, the exorcism(s) of Anneliese Michel. Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

There's no place to escape to this is the last talk on the left That's when the cannibalism started I'm sorry, I gotta I've got a prep for the episode I can try I can try can you can Fuck you pissed I am bed hanging out with Marcus and the newly possessed Henry Zabrowski and I just want to say this Henry You must feel right at home. Now the devil is literally inside of your asshole He has never been happier side of my asshole. It has been really nice. He purchased it furnished

And he said he didn't need to change a thing when he showed up He was so excited because he's just like this shit is Incredible like you talk about my literal shit inside of my fucking asshole. Um, this episode is going to be Spooky this was an episode. We were trying to get into before the Halloween season ended But it ended up we spent too long in the fun world of Paul Bernardo and Carla So now we're here where the ghosts are they are at least tangible Absolutely today's episode it's part one and I'm super excited to get into this tale everyone's seen the haunting picture But we will figure out the tale behind it. We are discussing Annalisa

Michael Annalisa Mikkel was a 24 year old devout Catholic German who died of starvation in 1976 after participating in 67 exorcism rights over nine months And this is of course in lieu of being treated for her actual medical conditions of epilepsy and depression But isn't it better to do her dungeons and dragons like symptoms first instead of all these boring like medical problems Who gives a shit right because when it comes out to you, it's like it's either the devil Or it's epilepsy

The people involved in the exorcisms were subsequently put on trial in Germany for negligent Homicide making it one of the few trials in modern history where the defense tried to prove that demonic possession was real in Court that has to be a fun day for a lawyer though because it's the same amount of proof that like It's the same amount of proof that Casey Anthony was molested that is that possessions are real You know any idea of putting together the same story really works like this idea that like they're like this is it Tonight we put the devil trials and they go to trial They're like this is it the Davidville go to jail today and it turns out no no no no every single time Priests go to jail. Oh

You can just see the defense attorney just being like the devil is real Look at my wife and then she's like I got no go I wanted you to be a stand-up comedian Said no wife ever And then you get her stickers and then she's fine And then really what came down to is that I think a lot of this would have been solved with some well-placed snacks I agree with all of this would have been solved with food just

Feeding just food. Oh, and also with the concerning the lawyers like it doesn't bode well that the defense lawyers Also defended a fair amount of Nazis during the Nuremberg trials Well, you know it was probably they paid good money and honestly they are at that point the Nazis had become job creators Yeah, I'm sure they did get paid pretty good Now people dying during exorcism is not a common thing in modern times at least when compared to the Middle Ages When any mental illness or a mysterious neurological disorder might be blamed on demonic possession I don't tell that to the nun that was tortured to death in Romania in 2003 this is in Tanaka. I'm just saying not common not never happened

I mean to the to knock who da knock who exorcism T. A. N. A. C. U. Da knock who this was in Romania And there was this the story of a bunch of other priests that went to jail for starving a nun to death Who was tied to a cross in a basement for a week then where they were trying to It's going to quote stop her from self-harming and we'll get into I'll talk a little bit more in detail about this as we go Through the exorcism of Annalisa Mikkel because when it comes down to it there are there are a lot of similarities and it's Difficult when you have a screaming writhing foaming woman saying I don't want to hate I don't want to hate and she's not just like you're a model girlfriend

Yeah, okay intriguing indeed and she's biting you kicking screaming being a generally violent person It's very difficult can't get within six feet of her literally a whirling dervish and she's fucking trying to pluck out her own eyeballs This is not even exaggeration like trying to bite her own tongue off Punching herself in the face cutting herself doing on this kind of shit. It's really difficult when you are just a sad long beard priest Now Annalisa Mikkel's possession came at a very particular time in the history of the Catholic church in the context of what was going on Internally with the Catholics goes very far in explaining why the exorcists were so stubborn with performing exorcism after exorcism on Annalisa see in 1662 about 10 years before Annalisa's death Pope John the 13th formed an ecumenical

Council to institute reforms to the Catholic Church in order to bring the church into the modern age Because the Pope was afraid that the modern world was leaving the church behind They were going to let all two boys shave their pubic hair. No It's incredible they caught up Yeah After three years of discussion the council produced 16 documents that proposed significant developments in Catholic doctrine and practice Including for example Decrees about how the church can use mass media before the church would not yet like we'll not we're staying away from radio

We're staying away from TV staying away from all that after this Ecumenical council they're like we need to use these pieces of media in order to get the word out Is that why our new friendly Pope did that stupid tiktok video where he like threw the hat and then he appeared on the other side You've seen these tiktok videos where they throw clothing and then they appear on the other side of it I didn't see the pope do it And this is where it comes from particularly care to think of the pope disrobing to be honest But that's I'm so happy tiktok is being used for the wrong reasons man Do you think he's got one of those hyper bent penises?

I was watching this commercial last night that was bent carrot comm and it was about it was these two couples You know how like in those commercials where they like looking at each other and they just smile and stuff And this one guy's holding this crazy Like twisted up carrot and it was supposed to be about having a super super bent dick It better be bent in the right direction But it's all about you have to because I guess your dick can keep bending and bending if it's already bending too extreme So it's all about a series of injections that they put to the shaft of your fucking cock and then they have to pull on it You I look this up

They have to pull on it and straighten out like it's a broken leg like it's on the descent Yeah, but then they're smiling and stuff and he keeps saying like you know sexual occurrences can't happen up to six weeks after the Injections I was like yeah, it's gonna be years Before I have sex if you put three Hyperdermic needles in my dick a bit of a non sequitur there, but Basically this ecumenical council was looking at the Catholic Church's rules the way some people look at the United States Constitution as a living document that's supposed to shift and be Reinterpreted with the times now wasn't that like new thought like this idea that like no we can actually change shit

Like we should actually look at this like we are modern quote-unquote modern people We should be able to move into the future They were just worried they were gonna lose money if they weren't cool in the eyes of the kids So they're like we know what to do stop fucking them start telling them the devil is inside of them But it was like also it's about staying hardcore for the 4chan audiences is what you're saying Well, basically like the the church's rules and regulations all these are they hadn't really changed that much in about a thousand years This was the first big. This was the first big redo in a millennium Now most in the church agreed with these changes, which collectively came to be known as Vatican 2

Vatican 3 is the best when they adopt the kid from India man that one is really fantastic I love that one what people don't know is that popes have to sign a contract We have to agree to be in up to Vatican 350 Whoa That's an IP joke But there were many in the church who believed that changing from the old ways would weaken the church and make the fight against evil And the devil that much harder Ironically it was the truest believers the ones who believe that the devil was a very real

Presence on earth who interfered in the lives of human beings who are ensuring that people left the church in droves Hmm, but these people the conservative hardliners believed that the changing of Catholic doctrine Would not only ensure that the world became the domain of the devil, but it would also Anger God in the Old Testament style Honestly can't they evaluate at some point that if you have to like walk around you're like my dad was a bad alcoholic We weren't allowed to make any sort of noise in the house I'm told like whenever it was time for dad to rouse himself for work. Why did you go? Why does God have to be like that? I think your dad was a good alcoholic

Number one and I think God you know, he's drunk. He was good at it. He was Who was be bad at it if that's the metric of good and bad would be bad bad at it is Grand Parsons grand Because Henry's father would just go and be alone and listen to records Henry's father was just that a father and Let's not forget an active police officer Relaxed enough to do his job. Mm-hmm Well enter and Alisa Mechel when hardline conservative Catholic German priests were made aware that a young devout Catholic woman was being tormented by the devil and

Klingenberg they jumped at the chance to intervene absolutely and she had the Callista Flockhart looks that they were looking to be their new cover girl Good reference After years of examination the priests began poking the bear making Annalisa's condition far worse Eventually they came to the conclusion that this was a case of atonement possession not demonic possession Hmm, what that basically means is that they believed that God had sacked a whole host of demons Including Emperor Nero and Hitler on this innocent young girl Because he was angry about the reforms of Vatican II and was trying to get the world's attention It makes very little sense

Hitler get the fucking promotion to deem yet the Hitler Pineapple shoved up his ass like in in the in the movie with Adam Sandler No, yeah with little Nikki. Yeah little little Nikki. He's supposed to be there. Gary is supposed to be there This is that your pretty face is going to hell or question because it comes down to the torturer on one side And the fucking demons are on the other side, and I won't fucking have it Yeah, not to mention, you know, we talk about her being tormented Imagine Nero and Hitler having to hang out those two egos inside the same body It's like having Mario Battaglia, I guess not anymore. It would be like having Gordon Ramsay in the kitchen with my mother

Well the funny thing about the Hitler demon is that one of the priests later said when they were During the exorcisms Hitler would come out every once in a while And all he would do is scream hyal over and over and over again And the other demons would supposedly make fun of Hitler and say ah he never says anything a subsist Don't listen to him Which is you know, I guess apart it's it shows you like how much these things really are influenced by culture because this is Germany in 1976 a lot of people are still very angry at Hitler in Germany in 1976 I really do forget about that context

It really did patch more punch back in the day and I do like that They just criticized him like he is Jeff Fox worthy just doing the like, you know If you're a Nazi if like literally just him doing his same old bits but it now you might be a dictator if But of course, Hitler is still hated universally. Yeah, yeah, you're right. She right well these priests Believe that if they could prove that Annalisa was being possessed because God was angry about Vatican 2 Then they could go to the Pope and show him that they were wrong to change anything and Since Annalisa was herself a devoted conservative Catholic from a family who felt the same She provided the other end of the feedback loop playing the role of a possessed person to both appease the most powerful authority figures in her

World and her own deeply held beliefs See this is something interesting that I think that we're hitting on here because the the bishop had to give permission For this whole exorcism and obviously we're gonna go into the details of how this ran up And but I never really saw it that way until you pitched it like that about this idea that like They had also had a thing at stake here as well Right the Catholic Church was looking for somebody that they could also use as an example and a lot of times exorcisms I was reading a really interesting. I bought a textbook because I was looking for scientific I was looking for scientific approaches to

Exorcism and this one thing I found called the social scientific study of exorcism in Christianity It's very dry, but that it was kind of talking about that about how the these types of exorcisms have been such an intrinsic part of This like every religion has a form of exorcism, but in Christian shit It really does pin down the lore right it really does help be like no our shit is real and It has like it's proof the devil is real and we can prove it as Henry said we'll get it more into it But so did Annalisa enjoy this process in the beginning when she was when she was the prize Enjoy enjoy is never a word. Okay, so she wasn't like oh This is so cool now. We get to prove that the devil is real and I happen to be the one to do it had nothing to do with it

okay, I Wish absolutely nothing. No, she's not the fucking character that we created for our comic book like this is it This is an entirely different. This is an entirely different thing. It's much more human and a lot more complicated than that Annalisa had accepted her death as an inevitability by the end It was an atonement for the sins of the youth of Germany Basically it was her job to starve to death while a small crowd of priests and family members Watched her do it over the course of nine months all because she and the people in charge thought it was necessary And I have to do this. I have to do it

It's that kind of like she did become an embodiment of martyrdom in a way I don't think she started that way, but she viewed no But she viewed it as over time as like this is my purpose in life Which is really it's fucked up and I think that's one thing that we'll talk about a lot on the show about this like weird Completing the loop thing of what possession is Right like when it comes down to it like how many times have we tried to pin it down whether or not there are demons? Most people say that there are not actual Corporal demons that come from another dimension and take over your body

But there is such a constant societal like they like there's been possessions and exorcisms in every form of human society and there is something about this because it's Expectation coming from being raised in a specific world and then kind of like all right now You have to act possessed and we have to act like we're un-possessing you yeah It's almost like the medical system is deeply flawed what that seems to be the main problem here is that they Didn't get the right diagnosis Whatever you fucking pussy. I Mean really she did well get into that it wasn't that she didn't get the right diagnosis

It was that she didn't accept it because Annalisa suffered from epilepsy starting in 1968 Eight years before her death in 1976 Now epilepsy is a lifelong condition that can be hard to accept and in Annalisa's case It might have been easier to believe that she was temporarily possessed rather than permanently Afflicted it's just so sad as well that she had nine months of starvation in Germany the best food the Bavarian pretzel The brats the brats the delicious Pilsner's if you know that she is if she was in like a food desert in deep Indiana if she lived in Gary But my god so sad beautiful Germany hmm

And so with all of these factors at play Annalisa Mechel slowly died over the course of not just the nine months She endured exorcisms But that eight years in which she convinced herself that her maladies were not physical but spiritual In other words, this story is one of a tragic slow burn And this is like sludge metal Like this is a real low low heat low heat and it gets hotter and hotter and hotter as it goes Yeah, I'm getting some Terry Shivo vibes as well

I can imagine how traumatic it is to watch somebody suffer, you know through starvation for sources on this series We've got Annalisa Mechel a true story of demonic possession by Lawrence Blanc and the exorcism of Annalisa Mechel by Felicitas D. Goodman both have their merits, but for this series we use the Blanc book more I will say I also didn't really understand just how bad epilepsy was until you did your joy division series for no dogs And I was listening to that and just that idea of like man She's not being able to trust your own brain Yeah, especially Annalisa as you as we'll see she tried so many different things and nothing really cut the mustard in terms of treatment for her Yeah, yeah, also. Yeah, Germany. It's great mustard as well. It's the mustard

Pretzels are so good. Oh and to be in her schnitzel So Annalisa Mechel was born in Liebelfing, Germany on September 21st, 1952 to two devout conservative Catholics named Anna and Yosef Now by this point in the episode you might have noticed that I've used the term devout conservative Catholic a number of times Yes, that's because the depth of this family's belief and the depth of their community's belief could not be more important to understanding how all of this came to be See priests were the only Catholics upset about the changes to the Catholic Church There were also many congregants who believed that the devil was gaining ground due to Vatican II Yeah, you fucking slowing down. I'm speeding up a bro. I am creating the Nintendo switch

The devil better be thanking his lucky stars the Catholic exists. Otherwise, no one would believe in him Uh-huh. Seriously and Annalisa's parents were just such people and since Annalisa was a very impressionable conformist She believed this as well, even if she didn't necessarily understand it growing up She just knew that Vatican II was bad, right? Right. Now Annalisa's father Joseph had wanted to become a priest when he was a young man But didn't have the brain for Latin so he went to trade school until the age of 22 World War two broke out and Joseph was drafted to fight for the Nazis in both the Western and Eastern Fronts You see that's why in all those shows

That's why in every single one of those World War two shows it shows like the two young guys, right? Like they have it's like some Nazi prisoner and then you're sitting there and you and he's as like Cigarettes and the guy goes yaw yaw and they always have the same scene. I didn't understand that they'd have boys Fought in us on the other side as well We all learned today. No, listen everybody By 1950 Joseph had married a woman named Anna and they started a family together in the small mountain town of Klingenberg whose name roughly translates in English to blade mountain

Located in rural Bavaria Klingenberg was conservative and predominantly Catholic. That is where the first white people came out of the ground When the children of Klingenberg are young they're taught the story of Dr. Faustus Faustus made a pact with the devil who then murdered Faustus by tearing him limb from limb and Splattering his brains against the walls Devil, this is not in the pact devil You wanted to win that game of monopoly I didn't know I was gonna have to be torn in half. Yes. Well read the TOS

Yes, it does say that Children were also taught in Annalisa's day in the latter half of the 20th century mind you that witchcraft was real and The reason why there weren't witches anymore was because they'd all been rightfully killed in olden times So fucking sweet what 1939 through 42 Dude, I love this type of shit This is like, you know again as elapsed Catholic now Satanist this idea of like these things like I I got hit up real hard over the weekend by a member of my family my aunt who asked me Why do I do what I do right literally asked me like why are you into what you're into and I think I was like

And I decided I was like well fuck this gloves are off I was like it's because I was raised Catholic and then they all like grip their shirts or like what? Cuz I was like it was just funny to still have the effect. I like that I could still get them Um, but it really comes down to it. I was like it's this idea that you believe in the literal truth of all of these Supernatural things and then all of this is devils and witches and all that being real. It's fucking awesome If anyone ever asks you like why are you a Satanist just you know take off your shirt and show them Oh, what good my body. Yeah, I'm saying it looks good in robe Garb you a garb body. I am better in tube shape clothes

Well, Annalisa was further taught that there were still women possessing evil powers Skulking around who could make life miserable for good Christians with a well-placed curse and that well-placed curse could Result and demonic possession. This is like school talk. Wow. This is modern times Yeah, this is like night. This is 19 sit like early 1960s early to mid 1960s when all this shit is still being taught in Rural Bavaria Wow now this sort of thinking was fairly common in Bavarian Catholics Who could be compared to modern fundamentalist American Christians? American Christians are taught lots of wacky shit to this day. Oh, yeah These Bavarian Catholics believe that Rome had liberal political views

If you're to the right of Rome, I don't know like what you want Like, how do you even eat food because you're like taste is for every time you taste something that is good You get one single demarcation on your soul. Oh, yeah Yeah, and it's a bit of a history with fascism It's kind of interesting. I would think it was liberal, but and the Bavarian priests for the most part took pride in holding on to uncompromised Catholic traditions They were so hard-lined that they were aghast when it was decreed that priests should place the Eucharist into the hand of the congregant instead of directly on the tongue

Because this lesson the power control dynamic between priest and common person Um priest Ben Kissel here priest Ben Kissel here. I just have a question So we're supposed to put it in their hand now, but I've actually been doing it more of a mouth-to-mouth So I put the little cracker. It's an oyster cracker That's what we use in our churches little oyster crackers because they're kind of fun And then I put it in my mouth and then I tongue it into their mouth. Is that still allowed? Well, there was some this guy honestly in my my My church these guys were so like devout they were so into it that my father Thomas

He used to dig to mouth transference We used to put the Eucharist at the very tip of his penis and that's the only way to intimately take it Yeah, my priest used to call that starbursting very interesting yes They used to do that in church obviously Catholic school You you get the Eucharist in your hand, but then everyone sips out of the same goddamn goblin or you know the same little Was it called goblet the goblins? Goblet chalice naturally during cold and flu season everyone got sick

Yeah, yeah, dude, and it's also they all got COVID too the same way when all of that burst of COVID that happened in South Korea and like all those places it came from the Christian places that wouldn't shut down because they had to all suck out of the same Like bottle of leftover wine after each other, but you know it's good for the environment though, isn't it? No single-use plastics here, but man that position you're on you're on your knees in front of a church priest I'm like I really is it's just so it's so like I hate it. It's that same view. It's the view from every fucking Still from a porn where like it's a girl with your mouth wide open your tongue a gas doing the ah ha ha ha How do you pronounce it ah ha ha ha ha? Yeah, I don't know that is a oh, I go it is the face that it's the porn face

That's on the internet now when the woman sticks her tongue out and her eyes roll up oh, I go I didn't know there was a term for it. Okay got no idea. I'm sorry watch the Christian documentary series. Okay, please Lord Now the rigors that Anna Lisa Mikkel's body were put through over the course of her 67 exorcisms would have been a challenge for even the healthiest woman But Anna Lisa had always been a sickly person Before she was five years old She contracted mumps measles and scarlet fever and these illnesses were used by Anna Lisa's mother Anna as an excuse to keep her Away from boys lest her delicate constitution fault her

But Anna Lisa wasn't the only Mikkel girl to live under strict rules She had three sisters and every single one of the Mikkels went to church every Sunday and Frequently on the weekday evenings between This was all under the command of their father Joseph who like many rural Bavarian men made most of the decisions for his family and Believed that each and every member owed him their obedience But what about the women with the big breasts and all the stines? Where do they go? They they they are still in church there Even fucking mommy milkers they got the big beer steins and stuff being like why can't they just be like that that kind of Bavarian

Hmm, that would be nice. They're just kind of different Different why is it though? But if they let the cleavage out at church as well or do they need to put a napkin over it? No, they don't let their cleavage out at church. They put on a different dress like the Germans have always been very accepting of the large bosom It's better. Perhaps they're allowed to know well for Anna Lisa's part. She conformed completely She was not rebellious in any way whatsoever and her ambition in life was in fact to teach religious studies Which is about the closest one can get to being a nun without going all the way It's funny you even say going all the way and in like reference to a nun because it's the only thing they don't ever get to do

Oh, they do it. I mean, you know, I've said it in Wolf of Wall Street. They're always scissorin out there. Yeah Well together her family's conservative Catholic beliefs and her community's belief in supernatural evil came together to create the perfect recipe for demonic possession All it needed was a spark Natalie does a good job in spun Talking about these contextual cues about the reason why people don't rebel is because when your entire context is set for you Like you're put in a world where you are put into a subjugated position by men It's it's a patriarchal system and you're told to do certain things So it's like Anna Lisa was like never taught in any way shape or form that you could rebel because you're actually under the watchful

Never ceasing eye of a present God that will immediately well by definition You're never taught how to rebel. That's the whole point of rebellion But you know, I mean you can see it people who see reference to it outside can kind of understand to get out of it You're in the middle of Bavarian Germany. I don't know if it's very difficult. I think it's very difficult Mm-hmm to do something that would be rebellious Yeah, but I also think that some people are conformist by nature Some people just absolutely love it. Yeah, some people just love it Yeah, it gives you a guidebook how to live and you don't have to make you can you don't have to make it up as you go

Yeah Now Anna Lisa was sickly as a young child the real problem started around the time of her 16th birthday in September of 1968 she suddenly lost consciousness while sitting with a friend laughing it off later as over exertion But that night the real terror began Yeah, fucking I don't think it's very good Henry But I just love I do love possession stories. I can't get over it I mean we technically covered this like a million years ago

But it's nice to get into detail about it But I'm always fascinated and I listen to all hour and a half by the half of the recording of her various exorcisms And she is grouchy. Yeah But midnight Anna Lisa woke up and found that she couldn't move an unknown force pressed on her stomach Pinning her down and she was unable to speak to her sister next to her to make the horror known Finally she lost control of her bladder and was then able to move now to us. This sounds like sleep paralysis, right? Mm-hmm, but considering how people have interpreted sleep paralysis as visits from incubus and succubus demons for centuries It's easy to see how Anna Lisa's thoughts turn toward the diabolical pretty much immediately

Sure, well, how many stories we have of shadow people shadow forms the tall hat man the plaid man like people seeing these things in the middle Of sleep paralysis scungy Lee man Don't you ever say it? That's you ever fucking say but you know that that idea Yeah, it is they kind of go hand in hand because there's something about being also on the verge of sleep and You your brain being in a half dream state and you see little devils But really this moment of paralysis was actually the beginning of Anna Lisa Mickles epilepsy

Once she was able to move again She changed your linens told her mother what happened and continued with her life for nearly a year with no incident But in August of 1969 Anna Lisa had another blackout and again. She had paralysis that night Her arms went stiff like they would go dozens of times to come stretched out in a way that was said to resemble a cat Stretching its paws. That's creepy. Yeah, but I know it's epilepsy. So it's not creepy. Sorry It's not yes. It's creepy as well. It is actually it is. Well, yeah, it can be both It's not as mean, you know, it is what it is. It's okay if you did if you do go through something like that Yeah, but I guess in the context of you know when everyone's screaming that it's demons over and over and over again

It's you know, it's got a context to it. It becomes creepy especially when a demon starts using you like a peepee accordion Mm-hmm push it Leave me alone, you know, I mean I drink a lot of water before I go to sleep like a rubber ducky in a tub Yeah, yeah now despite how it may seem by the way the Annalisa Mikkel story has been told over and over again The Mikkels did not immediately run to the church with tales of possession And in fact it took years for the clergy to ever get involved I'm not gonna give her parents a lot of credit, but they she did go see a bunch of doctors Yeah, when Annalisa was struck with another bout of paralysis

She and her mother took her to a doctor to examine her condition and they were eventually referred to a neurologist named Dr. Siegfried Luthi That's why I want every neurologist to be named Siegfried But when Dr. Luthi rightfully diagnosed a neurological condition Anna Mikkel told Annalisa to keep it to herself If anyone found out Anna said rumors might spread that Annalisa was crazy And if it got around enough she might not get admitted to university And in this Annalisa's mother planted a seed of stigma in Annalisa's mind

And this destructive comment would have a huge effect on how Annalisa would approach both her epilepsy and her subsequent mental illness In the years to come Because when you go to university in Germany, that's when your breasts get bigger and they give you the stines and then you become a thing That's for beer. They do beer handling university There's a lot of different there's a lot of like scientists and different kinds of people. Look at Angela Merkel, man Leading by example. She was a scientist actually. Didn't the Germans fit the COVID vaccine? Yeah Mmm, we do whatever, man. Whatever, bro Fucking I'm fucking to use Velcro till I was 12. I just feel like you've been on the road

I know you've been alone for a little while and I feel like you have a certain obsession today with No, no, no, I'm just saying I'm thinking about Germany In one aspect anyway See Annalisa wanted nothing more than to become a teacher and she believed that she if she was ever seen as mentally defective or If she was ever committed to an institution, she wouldn't be allowed to fulfill her dream Therefore once things truly started going wrong demonic possession was actually the more comforting diagnosis isn't that fucked up That is really true because it comes down to because they don't really understand like epilepsy

They try to how to control it but then like once you get to demonic possession it becomes like I know how to handle this We get Max von Seedau and yeah, yeah, you can pray it away I mean you're you can have and you can also put it in someone else's hands like have a priest come you do it Pray this away fix this for me Sure But at the same time that Annalisa was starting to have seizures which is hard enough to deal with her overall health was Diminishing as well. She caught pleurisy and pneumonia and spent two months in the hospital there She had a third paralytic attack, but this time the experience morphed into something far more terrifying

Yeah, it's creepy. Yeah, it's like exorcist part three. I think that old place in the hospital Red door. Yeah. Yeah, but Patrick Ewing Patrick Ewing It is one and only acting. I love it. He was also in he was in the first base gym as well Mr.. He was she does begin to see figures of Patrick Ewing that is incredible And it does turn out he was just training it was just a little bit harder, but anyway, that's a whole nother show Annalisa began having visions of what the Germans call fratten which are grimacing Gastly faces. Did you look it up? What? Did you look up fratten? What fratten? I mean, I I mean, I've I'm familiar with fratten. It's creepy

Yeah, would it be similar to the face that you see in the obviously it's a fake thing, but the Russian sleep experiment Like that kind of face of the person Kind of what it looks like. Yes, they're long smiles far too long smiles It's it's also like, you know in the exorcist. I mean we can use the exorcist as a pretty good reference at some point here and there But you know the demon that keeps showing up. Yes throughout the exorcist like that. That's that's basically what it is You're like, did I see it? And then by the third time you're like, I think I did see you Once these epileptical visions began haunting her I think epileptical is the right word Epileptical

She began to believe she began to believe that she was empty inside Save for the devil and a judgment of fire was coming for everyone around her Now it's somewhat common for epileptics Particularly religious ones to see their condition as a punishment from God for some sin. They've committed proof that they're wicked To wit that belief that God is punishing you can be similar to feelings one gets from depression i.e Worthlessness self-loathing and a general feeling of lost hope Furthermore when you see the footage of epilepsy patients being medically induced into seizures It looks like every description of demonic possession. You've ever read about

It's really interesting if you watch footage of epileptic seizures because people do the arch back The whole thing that people can look the screaming that they can appear as if they're levitating because they can literally They use their body in a wave and like bounce up off the bed So people don't know how you get that fucking height But it really depends on your core strength to begin with before you get into the epilepsy and that is true I know that's weird to say but her lack her sense of emptiness was really interesting because Reminded me of the letters that mother Teresa was writing like the basically what came out after the fact well one day We'll do our episode of my

But like she's talked about this emptiness which I think is really interesting I wonder if that's just such this common thing that people that believe they have a very close relationship to God That they're kind of locked into this feeling like it's a it's a like I'm with him. I'm I'm in a vibe I'm vibing with God to do B20 21 about it, but it's like you can then also I don't know I don't You know, I mean, it's weird to the sense of emptiness is like my co-pilot is not just a bumper sticker It is yeah, that's that's how they yeah in term. I mean, she's experiencing straight-up depression here And that's what happened like you know when I'm some of the things that I watched about epilepsy is that you know

Epilepsy comes first and then on it's related but unrelated. It's not like physically related, but epilepsy is extraordinarily difficult to live with extraordinarily difficult and a lot of times depression comes from Realizing like oh, this is something that I have to deal with my life is forever altered and and Alisa was starting to become that Sort like she was starting To come to that conclusion, you know that this is something forever But she didn't want to believe that it is something that is that was gonna last forever And she was experiencing hallucinations outside of the fratzen

She told her doctor that she experienced terrible stenches that smelled to her like burning fecal matter Which that burning fecal matter will become a running theme throughout and Alisa's experiences Hmm am I incorrect in saying that it seemed like her family would also sometimes smell the fucking do-do smell? Like they would also the people who were all in on it Could smell the burning fecal smell the people who were not were like I have no fucking clue what you're talking about Okay, it could have just been the the European lack of deodorant could be oh perhaps or maybe it's the new candle from Goop Ah funny It's do-do

Well this we have another symptom of epilepsy Basically epilepsy is an electrical short circuit in the brain if it shorts out your motor functions You get stiffness and jerking if it affects your memory function your memories get scrambled But if it affects the sensory centers of your brain you have hallucinations that can be auditory visual and olfactory Oh Furthermore if the seizure tweaks the same part of the brain again and again The hallucinations will be more or less the same thing every time hence burning fecal matter showing up again and again and again

That's like why if you open up a dude's head You could stick your finger into the same like part of the brain and like his leg will shoot up or like like his penis will get hard Right Yeah, I don't know about the last one, but sure But can you not do that? Isn't that not true that you just go like and then the brain does stuff or does that work? It doesn't work like that. You might be thinking of a cartoon. I'm not sure Refuse to be maligned And those hallucinations can be strong enough where people around the afflicted can share them if they want to believe hard enough

People saw heard and smelled what they wanted when they were around Annalisa Mickle and eventually Everyone with the proper background of belief Experienced the burning fecal smell as well. Wait, wait a second. No Gary. You're thinking about citrus fruits again We are thinking we are manifesting the smell of burning shit. Okay, so if you fucking think about another good smelling thing again You're out of the group. You're out of here. All right. I guess that's fine. I mean, I don't like Jasmine But you guys don't seem to like it Now after her third epileptic episode Annalisa was given an EEG scan in hospital But nothing was found just yet that might indicate abnormal brain activity

So she was prescribed an anti-convulsant and discharged with somewhat of a shrug Yeah, like well give her some anti-convulsant see what happens Sure, but her sister's noticed that her personality had changed where before she was a sweet Bavarian young woman Well on her way to adulthood and Annalisa was now becoming moody She was quiet withdrew from her friends and only wanted to talk about religious topics Yeah, she did really become kind of a she did become a bummer In a way, but it's hard because you are seeing quote-unquote proof of what you think is God and this type of thing in your life so you I imagine you become obsessed with it and then also like the same the sort of the idea of like

Y'all don't get me anymore because of what I'm going through on the inside in religion exists in the unexplainable, right? That's why people find it. They try to find an explanation for the unexplainable and in this case Obviously she didn't realize her sickness. So there you go fill in with God Yep, then things got worse when Annalisa told her mother about the fratzen instead of going the medical route Anna and Joseph began seeing the symptoms as something super natural as Annalisa's mother Anna put it the priests were always talking about Satan and how he was always trying to tempt everyone and it seemed to them Like this was exactly what was happening in their own home and then when you said earlier like did Annalisa Enjoy some of it. I don't think she did. I think her parents though did to us at some level

Did enjoy that proof of like, oh man, it's happening to us this thing that the debt that the pre-salesing We're special. It's happening to us so perverted and weird It would be like if the Ramsey family was like, wow, I can't believe our God We got to die in our basement and now we're celebrities. We're on some level. We're on the TV I'm running for Congress. It comes straight from Job, right? This idea that like you're chosen to suffer specifically for God Symbolically like we're choosing you and again because again, you're then chosen. Mm-hmm And I think well, I think the Michaels of course would never choose this over having a happy and healthy daughter

Of course not. That's not what I'm saying at all What I'm saying is that I think that once the possibility came that they could be one of the chosen people one of the special people That God touches whether it be negative or positive. I think it appealed to them and I think they encouraged it Okay, I mean you could have made her a professional basketball player. That would have been nice I could have done anything anything over the next two years and Alisa suffered from more seizures and was prescribed various Anticonvulsants she was given more EEGs that all came back normal But the blackouts demonic faces and burning fecal smells kept showing up Eventually and Alisa said she began hearing knocking sounds in a room and before long

Her sisters were also saying that they were hearing knocking coming from inside and Alisa's closet under her floor and above the ceiling Can I just be me for a second and say that like I do believe right? Obviously, I feel like there's a medical basis to all of this But the thing that I'm always gonna keep hitting I always think that if you Live in a certain headspace if you manifest a certain reality things start to pop up like this, right? Like things do you begin to fill it out on your own through let's say psychic projection like maybe there is a way that she'd like What we see in poltergeist activity these types of things where a young woman whose guts are all filled with blood She gets all mad and shit, right or ever up her head her upstairs gets all bing-bongy, right?

She the per uterus start shooting out mindwaves, right? I don't know if this is all true But they did it you can create poltergeist activity from a physical problem like from inside of you that I think it's interesting I think that the idea of like weird activity being around this woman makes a lot of sense. I Mean, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I mean probably probably not Like I'll take it, you know Just just and just trying to engage The visions of demonic faces became more frequent and the hallucinations had increased

There were now voices telling her that she was to be damned to hell forever and while Joseph Disregarded these claims Anna said that she saw her daughter standing before a statue of the Virgin Mary her eyes jet black Full of hatred. Oh, no, isn't there a symptom of epilepsy of the dilating of the pupils? Maybe something like that isn't there something along that because you can have this or I believe maybe I'm incorrect email side stories Lpotl a gmail.com to tell me how just how incorrect I am I do believe that certain types of mental Problems like the idea of like when you're seeing things your eyes do react like when you're tripping balls Right like how like the pupils open up and then you kind of see more shit in your periphery

Vision increases. Mm-hmm. It says here that there's a the there seems to be like anecdotal evidence of people saying that they there are Pupils dilate, you know quite large when they're you know when they have seizures and you know Epileptic episodes and things like that. So that could be something that could be part of it Okay, now at least it did try to reach out speaking to a doctor in 1973 about how she was living a life of apathy filled with suicidal thoughts able to perceive but not experience life This is textbook depression But instead of getting her treatment her father Joseph tried more God and went with her on a group bus trip to the San Damiano Monastery in Italy. Well, that was special to her

She loved the San Damiano Monastery like she would go like because that's like that thing I think we talked a little bit during our Black Death series about the idea that they were like there are places that people like Shrines that you go to especially in the Catholic religion where there's like a saints like belt buckle is there Or then you got to go touch it three times or whatever or then you get good luck So this is like one of those spots where you if you look at the pictures of it It's very pretty is there a little pretty church you go to but apparently that was like her favorite touchy God spot Okay But before Annalisa even set foot in the structure the demonic delusions took hold

She claimed to have been unable to enter the monastery shrine because the soil burned like fire under her feet She then tried the back door, but couldn't pass through the garden She couldn't look at holy pictures of sacramentals and was unable to drink water offered from the shrines. Well Joseph even bought her a metal hoping that it might alleviate something. Yeah, those little charms little charms that you can get Yeah, like the metals of Saint Christopher a lot of people tend to wear around But Annalisa couldn't wear it because she claimed that it pressed her chest to the point where she couldn't breathe Oh on the bus trip home and Annalisa then turned her anger towards the people around She near attacked the trip's arranger

Mrs. Thaya Hine Breaking her rosary and mocking her using a deep voice and improper language Gotcha bitch Language According to fellow bus riders and Annalisa in this moment exuded that same stench of burning fecal matter That's just that constant slow release of forts that you get it when you're traveling long distance Honestly, though, that's a good. What did she defecate herself? Was she shitting herself? She might have been I really don't know. I mean it is Germany

I don't know. I do know that she would lose control of her blood and sometimes during a seizure She would whiter says she would urinate herself. I don't know about Defecating she might have but there was no from what I saw there wasn't that was not specified You did some poo poo work. You did some investigation Little poo poo. I believe there's an old there's an old German term that says the stream runs wide But the eggs are not seen Because let me ask you this this also put this question to the two of you with when it comes to this type of behavior, right? The idea of very classic

Capital P possession behavior when you're going into these religious sites What percentage of it is performative because you think you need to do it and what percentage of it is real? Because if you look at later on like this is one of these symbols, right? Like in the to not go Possession where they're like she wouldn't let us feed her like this scenario, right? Like she won't eat we had to tie her to the cross because she kept trying to fuck so yeah And that that story a 23 year old nun was tied to a cross in a shed And then she was left there to die and she died of starvation and dehydration but the thing is they said they did is because she kept trying to pull her own fucking eyeballs out and

And and then they had to put they stuffed the towel in her mouth because she kept trying to bite the tip of her own Tongue off do this kind of shit and then she wouldn't eat. What's what do you do? I Mean obviously you should put a line and a food line in there and stuff But I'm more like what's the performative part and what is like this is whole constant thing of like what is possession? It's really so bizarre. I don't well I'm sure Marcus has a much better answer But I remember when I was in high school

There was a wrestler and we would wrestle at the school and he had Tourette's this guy and he kind of walked He kind of did like a chicken cluck and then he would obviously just scream and curse constantly Yeah, and I remember talking to our we had a like a meeting with it about it and He literally was completely out of his control sure That was so he did not want to be doing that and apparently he felt like he was just immensely embarrassed all the time Oh, yeah, I think Annalisa was much the same way. I don't think her behavior here was

performative yeah, because she was not getting at this point was not getting positive validation for what was going on People were fucked up by what she was doing. So it wasn't like yeah, there wasn't a priest. They're going nice Another ten years of job security. Yeah, I think some people do Do believe that they're possessed and their possession does get worse Because they are getting positive validation from it. They are getting attention for it. They go on Dr. Phil, for example Yes, Annalisa McKell was not in any way looking for attention here Like she did not want this to happen to her at all. She was deeply embarrassed every time that it happened She just wasn't in control

She just wasn't in control of her faculties right now nobody's exactly sure who first suggested Exorcism to Annalisa McKell as a way to solve her problems Annalisa McKell Annalisa's mother claimed that it was her neurologist Dr. Siegfried Luthi who suggested consulting a Jesuit priest Now Luthi denied under oath That he ever claimed medical help would be of no benefit to Annalisa Nor did he ever mention demonic possession or so he said But Sayahein who had become friends with Annalisa after she'd been attacked on the bus back from San Damiano She said she heard Dr. Luthi suggested

Hmm, but either way it was Sayahein who first contacted father Adolf Rudwick in Frankfurt Still name them Adolf, huh? Still Adolf Yeah, man, this is 1969 1970 he was named Adolf long before Adolf was bad Yeah, yeah, and he still had to walk around and they still were just calling him like he said call me Smokey Michael Jordan had to do you got to put the middle initial in there. Yeah, Michael But but you still got Adolf Adolf B. Rodewick is not gonna make it any better But Rodewick he had already published several books on the subject of possession

He was the local authority, but since he was 79 years old and unable to travel He recommended Father Herman. This is all exorcists, man Father Herman visited Annalisa 10 times between 1973 and 1975 in the two years leading up to the exorcisms Now to his credit Father Herman did not immediately jump to possession and instead suggested that Annalisa go to a neurologist Oh, see Catholic priests are reasonable I know I think you might come full circle and when I see you at 80 you might become a priest. I could see that

Oh, god, I thought if I if I'm if you see me in a priest's uniform know that this is the end of a very long tax scam That is going for decades So you became a church, isn't it? You're a church. It's me. I'm the whole thing. I'm the staple on the battle Can we do that last podcast is not a church. So I do you wait you wait you wait. I'm fine with it But when she said that she'd already gone to a neurologist to no avail Father Herman faithfully passed one of Annalisa's letters describing her condition to a half schizophrenic hardline Conservative priest named father Ernst alt now this guy

Is the person that really completes this whole circle in this situation. So he was probably happy So you think he was happy when he found he's like, oh, we got to we got realed. We got one He is like and father alt as you know because he always brought a stool and his notes are out and he kept going Is this something is this something? Um, that's a funny. That's an inside baseball comedy joke. Um, but father. Oh, I see. Oh, you see Yeah, you see guys, please Please guys with my stay. What about me and my stature? Please please come with me on this journey. But father alt is a

He is exactly as you imagine It's the he's like the ultimate exorcist in my mind where he's like He's vision sees his vision. See here's noises year old No one's told him like I think this guy might be like fucked up mentally But they were like they kept saying like you've got exactly what we want You have the right kind of imagination father alt's inspiration. He's just like, yeah, don't I I'm fucked up Yeah, when the Germans start getting too creative things go wrong. Yeah. Yeah Well, I mean, this is one of those things where I can't remember what it's from but it it's like

In another again for some reason it's a Werner Herzog thought like, you know, looking at a schizophrenic and being like in another life He would have been a shaman somebody to have been Worshipped and listened to and that's a thing and I was asleep and I say that as a compliment because And in this case like this was like a fucking half schizophrenic that people were listening to but the problem was that his fucking visions were all Demonic they were all metal. They all came from such a horrible place Yeah The father alt was 37 when he first heard of Anna Lisa Mikkel And he'd already had somewhat of a checkered past in the church

Not criminal checkered, but just a reputation for being difficult He was first posted to a hospital in Bonn working with children But was transferred due to what was called problems with the other fathers They do not like my presentations to the children about the rivers of blood And the clouds of crimson It's just a lot. It's just a lot pastor priest. It's just a lot of the kids You know, can you just talk to him about uh, what about like Adam and Eve? Maybe do something bad or uh, just something with the bible. No, it's arc. No, it's arc. No, it's fun animals

We're just gonna say The water's rose and they've watched the horses drown From the brow of the priest's position on the Noah's Ark And he watched the birds fall from the sky No one learned anything You know what that's good though. You didn't mention menstruation one time. So actually Now See alt was looking for a place where he could live life as a priest in the way he felt it should be lived

And the way it sounds alt's view of the priesthood was almost medieval Back when visions and demons were an everyday part of a priest's life And unfortunately for Annalisa father alt found a home in Bavaria Where such beliefs were not only tolerated but validated. It's almost like he was specifically put there Yeah, yeah Now when father alt was eventually examined by a neurologist and a psychiatrist during Annalisa michel's trial They found him to be intelligent and analytical But they also found that his regular visions suggested a schizophrinic

Psychosis and his personality was vaguely deemed Abnormal, okay But father alt believed wholeheartedly in what he saw and even spoke of his visions During the trial as proof that holy shit. Yeah, I see visions. You can listen to me as an expert on possession Yeah, it is not a bug. It is a feature. Oh, wow. It's a strange time to be on the jury. That must have been interesting Mm-hmm in one vision that he said occurred around christmas of 1975 He saw jesus on the cross in anguish and heard a voice calling out saying for you

And then I knew it. I honestly and I was like jesus, thank you for doing me a solid braw Give him his fucking dabs, dude, and then he was like off bring me some water or something Get me off the crucifix and I was like, no, bro. This is for me, bro Yeah, isn't that nice? Fuck you, dude. You fucking stay there, bro. Fucking die in there, bro And this was the man who performed the majority of the exorcisms on Annalisa michel Now by the time father alt was brought into the game the team who eventually worked on Annalisa's exorcism was already growing Father herman had brought in another priest with a fucking amazing exorcist name father Roth

Yeah And since father alt seemed to be the go-to guy in bavaria for all things ookey spooky when it came to the catholics They brought the case to him. Oh like molder Yeah, yeah Now by the time they got to alt the priests had surmised that Annalisa was either being possessed by the devil Or at least being molested by the devil, but not molested in the sexual way. Thank you Rather this was the old usage of molest meaning to pester or harass in an aggressive or persistent manner Yeah, so me screaming at the middle schoolers across my street till they need to grow up and get a job

That's not me Diddling molest. That's me audibly molest I remember that episode x files where scully and molder had to go stop the screaming polish person for me So Roth and herman asked father alt to quote-unquote tune in on whatever Annalisa was radiating whether it be physical Or spiritual and this to me is insane because like that this is why like catholicism is so much fun Because it's fucking magic. They asked him to perform a magical spell and diagnose this woman's Affliction right from afar like he literally did a ritual to visualize like it is no different than ritual magic whatsoever at all like it's the same it's same exact way of doing it too. He did remote viewing

Yeah, yeah, it's remote viewing and just asking he used jesus as his deity Not from what alt claimed. He was able to quickly describe the entire michel family once he tuned in despite having never met them From Annalisa. He felt an enormous radiation originating from her neck, but he did not detect any illness This however did not prove possession Two days later father herman delivered two letters to father alt one written by Annalisa and one written by her mother Anna Father alt however was unable to read them because he became so nauseated at the thought that he believed he might faint I am literally allergic to work Actually guys, I'm sorry. We got to end the podcast. I am about to faint

I'm just exhausted from all this sitting Working working. No, no, you have to wait for another couple years before we could all go to rehab for exhaustion Yeah, which I'm really excited for yeah with a side of cocaine Yeah Oh man I can't wait for that exhaustion like what month two months something like that like I go like you know where I want to go I want to go like you guys remember that scene in break in bed where like jesse gets sent to rehab

And and like it's like that's super nice like southwestern thing where it's like next to a pool, but it's in this like dome Yeah, I've already I have a brochure of it up on my one of my tabs I have one of those places where you yeah passages where you just get to go and just sit and they go like you better keep sitting And you're like all right Yes, ma'am But then came the supposed attacks which sound like something out of a mid-70s ripoff of the exorcist Father alt claimed that as he prepared for the transubstantiation for that evening's mass He included analisa in the sacrifice of the body and blood of jesus

Suddenly he was hitting the back the air turned cold an intense burning stench filled the air But while this molestation did indeed vex him as he put it It could not and did not inflict any real harm. It was just vexing I have to tell you right now the phantom vexing that came from me from a source that that is not real And I a story of which I am making up I was very cool about it. Oh, that's very nice. I was very much read into Blood and meat. It's cannibalism. I was just trying to explain to my aunts They got all upset. Yeah, dad. You don't need to do that. Yeah, I'm still happy. I'm just happy

You're still fighting your aunts like we're in middle. They asked me You take them take them down a page. I didn't want to I didn't want to take it back I didn't try to take it then I was like, but no you like it It's nice. You like it. You know, I mean, I was nice. I I smoothed them then I bought dinner Oh, that's nice. That's nice. That's nice. It's I think uh, you know when we're off the call We can have a conversation about a concept called change in the subject. It's Well after the service father alt retired to his room for what he said was the most restless sleep of his life Even though he'd taken yeah, I can't what the hell does that even mean?

But even though he'd taken a powerful sleeping pill his apartment was filled with the variety of stenches that all had a theme They alternated between an open sewer Burning dung and plain old shit with a stink level that he described as Infernal is it possible the sanitation levels just were not very high Yeah, they're still rebuilding the country. That's it is actually possible. They're still rebuilding Germany at this point Yeah, it's just fucking do do everywhere. He's got do do on the mind I will say they are have been and I this is not to malign you kissle and your lifestyle There have been some things that you have left

In the studio bathroom that I would describe as infernal. Sure. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. But then that's not demonic I mean it cut well it is it see what happens is when you order uber eats and then you also order grub hub, right? Because the breeze wasn't coming so then you end up with McDonald's and Taco Bell That's what I did on saturday. I was extremely depressed and then I did my depressive meals Which is fast food and then I got both and then I did actually put some nacho cheese sauce from taco bell on a Wap on a big back rather my boy was the single greatest thing that I've ever had in my life So I do recommend it, but I don't But I did you did a good job. You made corporations compete

Yeah, I think they're all about the same companies. That's how fucking capitalism gets better. You are in your man. You're doing it You're a hero. You're making america better. I'm telling you add a little nacho cheese sauce to a big mac and just wait And also I put a couple of the tortilla chips from taco bell on there as well Anyway, that's for a whole nother show. I don't know what show another show Yeah toilet times with Ben Kessel describes what he calls his poo poo seeds, which is what he eats before Well during that same night father alt said that he heard the occasional loud thump coming from his wardrobe And he found he was simultaneously drenched in sweat and frozen to the bone Finally after trying to pray with a rosary and reciting an exorcism, right father alt appealed to a saint called Padre Pio

So in catholic belief Padre Pio had been set upon by the devil on a regular basis Tormenting him both physically and spiritually bruising his body tearing his clothes Destroying his letters. So the devil just like to pick on this guy for some reason. Yes. Yes You've liked a molestem We will one day do a series on the saints because we've been talking about this for a while All the saints got their asses kicked by the devil Why can't there just be one

Winner saint one that does something for god. I think st. Peter ended up having an okay life Well, one kill. I forgot st. George. I think he's the one that killed the devil He's the one that put the foot of the archangel Michael to become a saint. George. Yeah the dragon and all that yeah Come a saint You got to get something you got to get like hurt and then because they try to make a saint Didn't they try to make Ronald Reagan a saint after he was gone? Oh god He wasn't even Catholic you got to be Catholic to be a saint. I swear to god. There was some something like that But anyway

Was a young priest Padre Pio suffered hallucinations that a celestial being stabbed his stall with a pointed steel blade emitting fire ripping his hindrills to pieces and causing continuous agony Oh from that point forward Pio claimed to have suffered from stigmata for the next 50 years Jesus Christ, man. I think that just I think it's eczema And so when father alt called upon Padre Pio The feces smell was replaced with the intense fragrance of violets as though as though he said he had dumped after shave lotion On his pajamas. I don't like the smell of flowers Yeah, I why would somebody put why would somebody put lotion on pajamas?

You're just going to bed as he was at dumping his oh you don't mat and want to mat masturbate with aftershave lotion to tear Oh It's whatever's in your toiletry bag sometimes because we've been talking about this how many told tales have been Would they take the moisturizer out now? Yeah, they're taking them. It's a it's a war on masturbators. They don't want us to come Yeah, it really is Where he stopped sweating the chill left him and the pressure on his head disappeared He slept for an hour having as he claimed six full hours of molestation by some demon or devil When once father alt told his fellow devil-fearing conservative priest what had happened

They were also Suddenly able to smell the same burning dung open sewer regular feces stink wheel that father alt had experienced Oh, father alt also noticed that anytime he spoke of analisa michael He smelled the same series of stenches. Yeah, same thing every single time. I see the name james cordon I smell an open sewer. It's incredible what it is. Yeah, he improvs. I hate him Oh, we all do so after hearing more about analisa's affliction father alt met her personally Now by the time alt showed up analisa was deeply depressed and looking desperately for someone to believe her more importantly I think she was desperate for someone to tell her that her afflictions were a temporary

Inconvenience that could be prayed away or it had at least a simple like it not even simple Like it had a solution because now like they were putting the she had tried various medications Like they kept trying to drug her up to try to solve the the this the seizure problem But it's it kept coming back, which I don't know why that would happen I don't really know why what why you can't not be meditated. Yeah, they switched medications a few times And also seizure medications can be very strong They can fuck with you and ruin your life. Yeah, they can ruin you Yes, in ways that you where you have to completely relearn how to live your entire life

Um, so for two weeks alt visited analisa claiming to have witnessed her eyes turn black until she became totally absent Again, quite possibly a that sounds like a seizure. She becomes she became absent She became unresponsive her pupils quite possibly dilated quite a bit But after he gave her a priestly blessing, he said she went right back to normal Meanwhile, analisa was starting to trust a few more people with her secret She told a boy named peter that she was having visions of demonic faces and smelling the stench of burning feces And despite this peter became her devoted boyfriend until her death Wow, it's like when you meet like a real version of a quote-unquote manic pixie dream girl, right?

Where they are actually very unbalanced sometimes Then you show up and you're like I can fix this and then also I'll get some smooch because at this point They're all very conservative, right? So the only way they're going to get full fucking PNV is everybody's got to get married. You got to do all the due diligence And so hymns that you have like I'm laying the groundwork So that like once you get through all this demonic bullshit out of the way Then I can get like I can get some lick lick from her and well we can be in love or whatever that kind of shit But peter man, he was there. He was around. He was just like oh demons. Yeah me too. I mean

Like I feel your pain I mean Anna Lisa McCullough was a she was a beautiful woman. Yep. Um, so I can I can see Anna Lisa claimed that her whole family could smell this burning feces stench But peter somewhat of a lapsed catholic when he met Anna Lisa He said he didn't smell anything But the more peter hung around the micheal house The more he could smell the burning feces stench But at the time peter suggested all this might be a hallucination and doctors were starting to find proof that this was the case

On her sixth eeg scan a doctor named ergman schliep Reported irregular patterns in the left temporal area of the brain fine There was something to point to and say look peter did the thing which I don't know of a lot of Boyfriends have done where you like take a girlfriend to the doctor to be like can you tell her it's cool That we date because she's not there's no demons in her can we you can you end this So that we can make plans to go to six flags Oh, wow romantic But around the time that doctors were finally getting somewhere with Anna Lisa's diagnosis

She was being regularly visited by father alt who temporarily made her feel better every time he prayed over her body And while he did tell her to continue her visits to the doctor for the time being He also prescribed a stricter religious lifestyle, which only increased her delusions Finally he took her back to the sandamiano monastery to see if she reacted the same way She had when she went there with her father and theahein man He must have been so fucking excited because oh, yeah, we're gonna go. We're gonna kick up some fucking ghosts I'm a fucking show all y'all I see demons as well and you're all gonna think it's super fucking rad When we go to this shit sounds kind of exhausting though, too. It is

But predictably she reacted the exact same way even with a pre-setter side And it was with this that father alt became convinced that ana lisa's problems were supernatural So he began discussing the situation with other priests while reviewing the set of conditions that formally diagnose possession Now in the catholic church, there are strict Differentiations between mental illness and demonic possession that must be addressed before a person can be officially diagnosed as Possessed and this was all actually put in I want to say in the 2000s where they finally sat and talked about it Because this this tonaku Exorcism the romanian church like their Christian church

They had to change everything after this woman died as well to say like all right You're always going to have to officially exhaust all psychological reasons first before we get these guides with the long red Beards in there. Yeah This as follows are the catholic guidelines The possessed must be averse to christ and all christian religion because as they put it mentally ill people can be deeply religious Yep The possessed must also speak in a rational manner as the demons speak in the new testament

Because people with schizophrenia often speak in nonsensical phrases Third they must have supernaturally obtained knowledge seeing as how the mentally ill don't have this magical ability Next the disorder must also affect others in a supernatural manner Or at least people need to believe that they've been affected by the possession in a supernatural manner. Yes Now ironically someone claiming that they're possessed is often seen as evidence that the person isn't possessed and is actually mentally ill Because demons are secretive and don't usually voluntarily make themselves known They are far more crafty of villains than man. According to them. They're crafty. They sneak on like setabytes The trickster the trickster phenomenon like which has been recorded in every single paranormal event possible

It reminds me a little bit of like the psychopath test where psychopaths don't think that they're psychopaths They just necessarily they just say exactly what they did and they don't even understand that it was wrong. Yeah The final litmus test which was applied hardest to Annalisa is that if medicine alleviates the problem? It's not demonic possession. Oh, but if prayer makes things better than the affliction is most likely diabolical I read this very very interesting article by a guy named Richard Gallagher who is a psychiatrist And this is from wapo and if this is a guy who's a psychiatrist whose job it is He works with the catholic church to spot quote-unquote true demonic possession and what he says is that he has recommended it several times

For certain things He said one of the things that still freaks him out to this day because he was like, I'm you know, I don't necessarily I don't know if I believe in demons He says he is a practicing catholic, which is why they trust him But he said the big thing is that when this like when a demon says stuff like Describes the way his own parents died and talks about how they died of cancer and that kind of shit That's like when he's just like I don't even know how the fuck they know that shit And that's when he starts to recommend exorcism that weird stuff when they know aramaic

But maybe they don't know how to how are they talking in aramaic or latin? Sure But then aren't there some brain conditions where people wake up and they like see the universe for what it is and they Because I'm reminded of the one who a fellow who got into a coma and didn't do he won't go to math He was just like me and then he woke up and he was like brilliant Mathematician all of a sudden so maybe it had something to do with that too Yeah, I they also don't know how knowledge works inside of the human brain They don't know if you are if you experience something once is it locked in there forever?

Like let's say you saw the fucking uh, the was it the the the christ movie mel Gibson did possession Passion of the Christ Passion of the Christ Yeah The ultimate nemesis But wouldn't you not like like maybe you saw that and that was all in aramaic Maybe you book at you bookmark that somewhere in your brain and then it comes out when you're in a demonic possession Which is closer to a seizure. Oh, no, no idea. I mean, I do have a woo-wee-woo

Theory about possession is that it's quite possible that but possession In certain people the reason why they can you know access, you know, certain knowledge why they can access other kinds of language Is that they somehow their brain cracks into their brain cracks their consciousness cracks and the collective unconsciousness seeps in and they get an unfiltered view Of you know, the whole stream of knowledge the whole everything which is fucking awful Like it's not going to be fun. No because it's yeah, it's all the screaming and the stream is wide But the eggs are not present. Thank you so much. Thank you Well when father all showed up to talk to annalee says she reinforced this last condition the one about you know

Prayer making it better by saying that she felt a strength from taking communion She said she felt empty before the Eucharist, but became more like herself afterward because it was food and she was hungry It could be she's got a carb boost Yeah, and so on september 9th 1974 when annalee semichael was 23 years old Father alt wrote to the local bishop bishop stangle to ask permission to perform an exorcism Stangle however denied the request this first time and told alt to continue his blessings Why don't you just keep fucking praying and see what happens? Yeah rejected

Well, eventually annaleesa got it together enough to attend university in vertberg where she studied education and theology But all the while she said that inside she kept hearing a voice telling her that she was eternally Damned and this was an extremely devout catholic woman. Oh Now by the time father alt showed up again about a year later in august of 1975 He found annaleesa in a state of deep despair repeating over and over again that she was condemned Father alt tried praying the exorcismus propitivus, but annaleesa ripped her rosary pieces And when her boyfriend peter arrived she told him to leave in a deep guttural voice You know that voice you're married marcus that very very deep sometimes. I've been good. Oh

Get out Now by this point father alt was convinced of annaleesa's possession Her friends said that she ordered them to stop praying for her because it hurt And she stopped going to mass because she couldn't physically cross the threshold of the church It is Her epilepsy was also getting worse. Sometimes her legs went stiff like stilts Making it difficult to get around the house without dragging herself along by holding on to tables and chairs Honestly dog. It was not a happy house and it is weird when you get very sad getting tin man legs

I didn't know could happen from epilepsy, but I guess it can where you get these things We have to like walk around on little pinions. That's hard. You never know what someone else is going through You're right. That's why I always yell first in traffic and I don't pull a gun Yeah, they always leave room for escalation. We're not allowing you to get a gun Crossbow, okay, because you can't shoot that out of a car window I don't think the bolts bolts are hard to keep around. Yeah annaleesa was constantly frightened and couldn't sleep and her boyfriend peter who'd come around to annaleesa's claims Explain to others that were frightened by annaleesa's behavior. Oh, she's just possessed. What are you gonna do?

Oh, she's just possessed What are you gonna do? She's possessed She's possessed. I'm sorry. What are you gonna do? It sounds like a line from repossessed the leslie nielsen movie. Oh, don't worry. She's just possessed. He's possessed It wasn't that casual, but it was like he would have to sit down and say like Um, yes, annaleesa is possessed by a demon by a devil. We don't know which she hasn't gotten help yet But it's but it's a very like it's a serious conversation that you would have like You know how people have to like sit down and be like, yes, he's bipolar or yes

He suffers from depression like that's why he is the way he is right or why he's acting the way he's acting right now You can just see the southern couple like tammy and bruce just Sipping their tea Oh, bless her heart You have to see uh, my girlfriend isn't my girlfriend is unfortunately possessed Which is um, why we feel we need half off of all of these appetizers Half of them are feeding a demon if you yes, honestly if you are possessed you do deserve half off all food Because I'm saying yeah, Henry you're eating not for one like if you're pregnant or triplets

You're eating for half damnation An entire group of demons your half that you're half demon right that demon shouldn't be fucking you should be eating for free If you're also feeding a demon. That's what that's me Okay, but it's around this time that Annalisa began receiving competing visions not from another devil But from what she believed was the virgin Mary herself Dude, this is like such a fucking jatterowski movie scene That she's seeing all of this like fucked up shit But then in the middle of like seeing shadows turned these like tall greening things and things pinning her down and making her

Pissed the bad and the stiff legs all this kind of shit all of a sudden she sees the beautiful visage of the virgin Mary Giving you waves of comfort Interesting in july of 1975 Peter took an unresponsive Annalisa for a drive They stopped for a walk, but after she was still for 10 minutes unable to bend her knees She suddenly stood and gleefully shouted that she could walk She was free because according to her. She'd just seen a vision of the virgin Mary. Okay And it's here that Annalisa truly loses all control over the situation

Two months after that vision she claimed to have been contacted again by the virgin Mary except this time mother Mary had a message Get me a big gulp. They don't have them here in heaven You know me she could probably I think she's a little sick of being the virgin Mary if you could find her a good jiggalow or something That might be nice as well That's what they did the virgin Mary stay a virgin afterwards Was she always a virgin because no Jesus had brothers right brothers and sisters, didn't he if Jesus was real It depends on what version of the story you believe because there's the belief that Jesus had a whole family There's a belief that Jesus that's the whole dan brown

Shit right was that he got married, but that's not real. You know, I mean, I don't think any of that's real But yeah, I think honestly, I think her whole closed Hmm. I think that she was uh, she probably had sex. Yeah more likely if she did have a child. Yeah. Yeah, it was joseph Oh, that would work. Yeah. Well, this is the virgin Mary's message She said that it was a great suffering for her heart that so many souls were being lost in these sinful times It was necessary the virgin Mary said for Annalisa to do penance for priests talking about Vatican II In addition, she also had to do penance for the youth of germany who are living sinful modern lives How about for the nazis? How about you for the nazis?

She sounds like the mom from water boy She was just very strict very mean Well, then came the question would Annalisa the virgin Mary asked be willing to do penance for these many souls So that they would not be lost Um, do I get a raise in pay or can I dictate my like hours? Now she definitely should eat for free at least free appetizers and a free dessert. She can pay for the entree Mm-hmm Now from what Annalisa believed she had three days to accept or reject the request and she spent those three days

kneeling in front of a crucifix Her mother and father who are apparently in the belief that all this was real they told her daughter to decline But Annalisa You're gonna decline the virgin Mary. No Say no Because they believe that the virgin Mary is real they believe the demons are all they believe that the virgin Mary came and spoke to their daughter But they were like that's a bit much Like you did she's asking a little too much here. Maybe you should just why don't we worry about the demon thing first?

And then we let's put a bit and then we'll put a pin in the virginary thing circle Yeah Oh my god, this would have been a nice actually if she could have done this via zoom Yeah, they yeah with virginary because then you can close the computer. Yeah, this whole thing could have been an email I think technically this is the ultimate zoom like that's what the burning bush was Yeah Annalisa though she believed she could handle it And she also thought that she had no real choice in the matter because the lost souls would be on her conscience

If she denied the request Oh, somebody's a martyr. Yeah, she does have that and with that Annalisa's illnesses and the church's purposes became intertwined Never to be rendered asunder Even after Annalisa died from starvation due to the negligence of both the clergy and her own parents And that's where we'll pick back up for part two of our series. Yeah, dude. We got at least

69 nice Exorcisms coming up because it's 67 were the main ones, but she had a couple before We're gonna go through some extra small ones little little bitty ones pretty ones pre games And then what we'll do is we'll talk a little bit more about like what happens in an exorcism Which I think is really interesting something along it's like I think we did a little bit when we did the michael taylor's story But something like this is so intense and it took so long that like you really could see this is the process it beats you up It sounds horrible and really sad. Annalisa michael, we will talk more about her next week Thank you all so much for listening to last podcast. Hope everyone is doing well out there

We have we are so excited. We're gonna see y'all in charlotte this weekend And I believe in durham durham Durham and a few other places as well. So we can't wait to be with y'all and see we still got tickets available Yeah, we up in this shit eating barbecue having fun drinking beer. It is fun. My guts don't feel good I wish I had a vegetable Um just like one vegetable that would really help one that's not also cooked in pork fat But that's all that has sadly my taco bell mcdonald's combo was healthier than the golden brown food that I ate all sunday Everything deep fried real wisconsin weekend for me very very excited. Uh, but yeah guys fucking buy the fucking coffee

Sprinkled jack mothman coffee. We're gonna be out here and uh, that's it come back this week And of course we have our weed vapes if you want those please pick those up I went to sleep yesterday because of our indica which was very nice. It actually really helped me rest And uh, so yeah, keep on so plumber two is out there If I can call the comic book stores get that shit coming All right, bro second printing of uh, so plumber number one is going to be coming out here pretty soon to keep an eye out for that make sure to go to your local comic book store and Uh request a copy

If you miss the first one Okay, everyone. Well, hope you're happy and healthy and safe out there And we will see you on the road very soon And of course keep on supporting all the other shows here that you love on the lpn network or the last podcast network Thank you. Um, yeah, because lpn network would be redundant with network Yeah, all right everyone and it makes us sound stupid. It makes us sound dumb We're getting ourselves everyone. I am possessed with chicken nuggets. Hail satan Coming to me satan. I made a bed for you coming to me satan. You better be careful, brother

I want to fucking levitate Oh my god, you just see the devil just Heavey just be ready. He's just be like, well technically at least he's an actor size You're gonna want to use your knees devil. Yeah, don't worry devil. He's bigger on the screen. You see they're smaller real Well, it's actors now again. Oh Yes Hey, don't get possessed this weekend. Don't don't get possessed. You're allowed to How do you know how do you do it cock your model? It's through the television. We also repossess. Oh, that's true

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