Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 474: Anneliese Michel Part II - Dig Up the Corpse!

Episode Date: November 20, 2021

This week we conclude the story of Anneliese Michel, who after being the subject of 67 catholic exorcisms, succumbed to starvation as her true demon, Epilepsy, went untreated.Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

There's no place to escape to. This is the last time on the left My question is man for all this fucking bullshit, why don't the devil deserve an apartment? Okay Deserve an apartment every time the devil shows up inside somebody cuz honestly, that's how I he views us, right? We're little apartments. I'm like a high-rise you are me and Elise was sort of like hmm a bungalow Gonna say cottage railroad. That's what she is. She's a railroad apartment cuz very thin honestly every time the devil shows up They got to come out can't there just be one guy you should get like major Vatican You get one very big fat guy sure and get all the demons into that guy

And then you get that guy live in a Vatican City next thing you know I mean he's gonna be the chief finance officer. Well, I actually think that you're making a massive mistake It's the same mistake that people make with competitive eaters thinking that fatter is better in reality It's gonna hit a fat wall presses it presses again So actually might want someone super thin more like a Marcus who has the ability to extend and almost impregnate himself with the demons Anyway, we have a lot of talking to do about demons today on last podcast on the left I am Ben hanging out with Henry and hanging out with Marcus in a new y'all Welcome home boys. We're all together. We've all been woken up by random construction this morning

We're exhausted and ready to go. We are to part two of Annalisa Mikkel It does sound like somebody not good at their German work It really does so when we last left Annalisa Mikkel She'd just had an epilepsy-induced hallucination that the Virgin Mary wanted her to atone for the sins of Germany's youth Because they were living sinful modern lives in opposition to the chest and innocent Annalisa What about the time certain in the 1930s in the 1940s? She didn't say anything about that. No, that's what she has That's what they have to atone for actually. That's the funny thing. They didn't have to atone for that What they were what they were atoning for was like you're listening to too much can short dresses

That's the problem can't I go mongoes and then even I'm like I go mongo. Yeah. Yeah fucking eager bim yassi. That's the problem That's the problem. All right. Well, I guess we can't trust a virgin Mary who has a child With the other more important part of that hallucination though was that Annalisa was also supposed to atone for the sins of the Catholic Church Who had just instituted their first major reform in almost a thousand years, which they called Vatican 2 Yeah, Mel Gibson's gonna direct. I can't wait now Annalisa was free from any sort of problems for a few weeks after accepting the Virgin Mary's Request, but just after she returned to school in August of 1975 She was struck by another paralytic attack while standing in front of a crucifix According to a witness. She stared at this representation of Christ with a gaze of hatred now at the very top

We talked about how we were gonna talk about a lot of demons today, but it's kind of the opposite We're gonna be talking a lot more about the horrible the horrible circumstances of non-medicated epilepsy and what happens, right? Especially because in the 1960s and the 1970s, they didn't really figure out what was the proper way to treat Epilepsy as much as possible. They had hardcore drugs and also they would put them on a ketogenic diet That was one modern thing eggs But they would put them on a diet like a special diet to fix them, but I did find interesting I want to say thank you to all of the listeners who sent me epilepsy information and also Emily Fusco our researcher who We all be a nice epilepsy parfait

To really get into but that's really interesting It does change your facial structure like you does meet you grimace pupil dilation does happen which we'll talk about a little bit more and Total personality changes are very common in epilepsy, which I think is really interesting people saying things They don't mean which is why I snapped it kissled the other night at dinner Yeah, well, I accept your apology and I booth it as you say on stage Well, that's interesting. You say she's grimace. I don't remember when she did get so large and purple More humor to come

It only gets worse so worried about the implications of such a hateful gaze her boyfriend Peter insisted the Annalisa return home to Klingenberg and there father Roth and father alt Confirmed that an exorcism was necessary. These guys were just waiting for her to return so they could say she's possessed Roth delete the demon Honestly, they really thought that this is this was it and they these guys were so psyched. Yeah, they must have been jazzed It's the ghost thing. It's the guy Like finally they've been waiting for this some of them have been training for years I did also a little bit of research of what it takes to be a Roman Catholic exorcist

Yeah, and you have to be old that you have to be old have to be old So the exorcist got that right do they work out truly because I know some of these sessions I'm sure we'll get into it can last hours and hours and hours. I bet I mean that's kind of why the person dies Technically they should they should institute some form of cardio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and a shot clock. Mm-hmm Well, that's a good idea 24 seconds well father alt and father Roth called Bishop Stangle But since Stangle was on vacation which is gonna become a common theme in this episode I see like an agent. So he just doesn't work from it's like summertime. Well, you know, he's out of the office

It's like early Fridays and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, but they're out of town for the holidays The holidays go from October 15th to January 15th. Yeah Yeah, so Stangle gave alt and Roth verbal permission to perform the small Exorcism prayers on August 3rd 1975 and here's where shit gets nuts During this first small exorcism. This isn't a full exorcism. This is just dipping your toe into the water kind of a test Exorcism, it's a snack a tizer. Yeah And Alisa whimpered and moaned that she was burning and she tried knocking the book containing the exorcism prayers From father alt's hands later

She said that hearing the prayers were on the pain scale akin to sticking her hands in a wasp's nest That is in her rectum Not yet. Okay. Oh, that's an old-school callback. Yes For all you new listeners, that's an old-school callback. We're not just randomly bringing up a girl's anus No, what girl young woman she's 24 years old. Yeah, so it's legal But it was after this tiny little exorcism the Annalisa Truly lost her mind in her view the belief that she was possessed by demons was being confirmed by Representatives of the most powerful being in existence. He's a God's right-hand man that are telling her you are right

Hmm. Therefore if demons were what they said she had then demons were what she was gonna give them Hey, hey, it's like when you show up to last podcast in the left, you know, you're gonna get spit on by me from the front row But this kind of reminds me of the story of arena Corniche, which I think that we I talked about a little bit last episode Which was the constant this 2005 exorcism that went bad We're gonna talk about this more in depth in a relaxed fit at some point But it always seems to stem from someone who has a very deep faith already Who is in a desperate spot? And so the people that are struggling with mental health or something like epilepsy, which is also like a weird thing

It was hard for them to understand at the time. You're also deeply Religious and it completes the circuit like you somehow like you're then your actual illness starts to take on the tone Of the shit that you're surrounded by and you did it. I really do think it's a part of it She didn't want to disappoint the priests. Oh, yeah, that has to be an aspect of it That's a little bit That's always an aspect with with possessions one of the things that they talk about that, you know people like really the biggest part of it The reason why people perform so much, especially when the priests are around because it is something like it's validation Well, it's this almost a weird like social thing where like everybody's shown up. Everybody's here to see the demons

They've there's such a they've called the bishop. They've got permission from him and you don't want to disappoint You wanted to show them that hey, you're not wasting your time. Let's get this shit done And you know prove the bishop correct. Yes, and there's demons, you know, they're in the green room. They're stressed They're putting their makeup on stretching ready smoking a cigarette. It's a big day for the demons, too It's like those like remember the lesbian porns of the 1990s where they used to have like the four inch acrylic Neals and shit nails and shit and they're like stabbing each other More reason footage So they think it's like they're scraping the inside like the top of their rib cage, but then they're all going oh, yeah

Benedict oh, yeah Give it to me Marilyn And then you're like they have to act like they're super into it because the cameras are there. Yeah, and I'm there And I'm there. Yes indeed. Well, I think a further reason why I mean religious people and specifically like Catholics get really into this sort of thing Especially when it comes with some sort of health problem, not the lesbian poor, but really with the health problem Exorcism both maybe I've seen some documentaries But the reason why is because it is you know, it's a it's a religion that is built on punishment Yeah, and a built on atonement and you know Annalisa Mikkel had epilepsy

It was a disease that wasn't really that well understood and from her perspective. She's being punished for something She's having to atone something she did something wrong and because in this sort of cosmology Shit happens because of you your frailty as a human being invites penance. Yeah shit happens. Isn't really a concept Maybe a schnitzel related theft Maybe she stole a schnitzel Well once she came to believe that the cause of her problems were demonic She got it most one to two hours of sleep per night and she would shout the prayer my Jesus forgiveness and mercy forgiveness and mercy For hours on end in a mocking town cool kind of metal got him out

She knelt down got up knelt down and got up so quickly and so often in this disturbing exercise routine that her knees Swelled up and became ulcerated unable to hit keel the same thing happened to arena Kurnichy very fucking strange She's Jenny the automatic Jenny flexion is what they called it at the time She was doing this kind of mockery of the mass over and over again also sweet if you've got nipple tassels on You got a possession right there. It's a heck of a workout routine. It is a possession workout I would love that so she'd do it for hours on it Well, he was and it she did it when it was supposed to have been impossible for her to continue to do so was it Richard Simmons Yeah, yeah sweating to the oldies put a little demonic spin on it

Yeah, my mom destroyed her knees doing step classes in a concrete basement of a Catholic church throughout the entire 80s She just now she can't walk. Yeah, because she was doing that this stepping up and down stepping up No, I think there was a scene in repossessed to do the exercise exercise exercise Sweet Anna Lisa ran through the house screaming and after long periods of running through the house screaming She'd tremble and twitch then collapse and then she would remain rigid for days and is the dad Just sitting there like Al Bundy with his hand in his pants watching the game Just be like it's another day at the Mikkel house

What I mean, how do you react when your daughter is just going nuts? They're chasing her around Covered in pee I mean really really it was I mean mostly it fell to her sisters like they were given from what I can tell at Least it was sort of during this time period. It was given to her sisters and to her mother It's like you take care of her. Wow. What that is not a surprise. Yeah Well, she urinated on the kitchen floor ripped holy pictures off the wall shattered crucifixes and tore apart rosaries She must have a tactical bath Sounds like a very powerful very powerful woman. Oh, yeah Sometimes during the heat of the day

She'd put her head into the toilet to cool herself down or she'd roll around in a coal cellar to cool herself off Then she'd climb into bed covered in coal dust Marcus. This sounds like three of your ex-girlfriends Sounds like Marcus is a child. Yeah, I was about to say it sounds much more like me Well, everyone learned to duck Annalisa's many kicks and punches and there were days when Annalisa Physically fought with her boyfriend Peter and her sisters from morning until night because remember this dude Peter is still in the mix He's still coming around all the time and trying to contribute because I think he's thinking in the back of his mind Like after this is all said and done like I get to marry this super cute girl Yeah, but I was also a very nice human being she was a very she was a very genuine like loving human being

He's putting his time in yeah, is it wrong to suggest that maybe she could become a Mortal Kombat character It does always adding new characters to the mix now actually smash brothers. Yeah. Oh, that would work Well, she also went through periods where she showed disturbing strength Peter said he once saw her take an apple and effortlessly Squeeze it with one hand until the fruit exploded under the pressure And they're all like oh my god, and then you know who that actually you know that inspired Magnus Magnus Magnus Well, you'll have to get possessed by the devil

Is it possible that she pulled what Mickey Mouse did one time where he took a large ball of cheese instead? I can smash this rock But it was cheese indeed and then he squeezed the cheese, but they thought it was a rock And they're like whoa is it possible what I'm saying is the apple was a tomato. I Mean Nowadays I would say supply lines, but I don't know Yeah, I don't know it might have actually been a tomato Okay, but get well you know what you actually do bring up a kind of an interesting point here because one of the

Accidental, I'll take it. Well one of the things that is Sort of a contentious in this case and in pretty much every exorcism case is what is real and what is a false memory Exaggeration yeah exaggeration what what has been right? You know what has been made more impressive through the telling and retelling of a story Because as we said in the episode one, they're all kind of complicit in a way All of them have a belief system right so they now are this is giving vindication to this belief system Yeah, they're all feeling correct They feel like now weirdly more than ever gods in this house yeah because God is here paying attention to this demon Like if the demons I'm gonna have to charge him a lot of rent or kick him out. He doesn't seem very fun to have him around

But the demons are real that means God is real now You're a part of this scenario also like we talk about this with hauntings too where people say mass hysteria or group hallucination But I think that more means is like you know like when you're tripping balls or you're doing something with a group of people There is like a mind sink that can happen You know and we will get into that later We're actually gonna go pretty deep into that phenomenon, but I feel like that's what we're seeing here It's a little bit of like we're all in this wavelength together and they're both like making it worse and better just by having Their presence be there and all of them and paying attention to it. It's a mind-build

Well, I mean what was so convincing to everyone about Annalisa's condition was that prayer did seem to help hmm one day Annalisa crawled under the kitchen table and started barking like a dog and refusing to come out What do you do? So Joseph called on dependable old Faia Hein the woman that Annalisa had attacked on the way home from San Damiano Do I have to go back? Do I have to go back there? Sounds scary They came over and demanded three times in the name of the Blessed Trinity for Annalisa to come out and sure enough Meek is a lamb she came out and took a seat at the table like nothing had happened. I've had these for a little time now

Like Jesus fucking Christ. All right. Yeah, okay, but that also confirmed their belief system You know that shit the only thing that works is prayer and you can see it You know a to b every single time all right But worst of all for Annalisa's eventual fate was that she began drinking fluids only sparingly And she refused to eat solid foods apart from the odd fly or spider Of course, that's just to keep the demon narrative rolling. Yeah, man. She's fucking intense. Yeah, like honestly I can't I've met some of these girls on the road They get intense why don't demons like better food you would think that they wouldn't need flies or bugs

What about Salisbury's day? It's weird because I looked up. I wanted to know maybe you know this kissal I actually didn't know I want to look up. Why is fasting considered holy, especially within the Catholic Church penance and real penance related It's part of it's partly penance and it's also this idea of when you get rid of what they called like sort of like these these Earthly Distractions like things that taste good things that feel good it will quote-unquote leaves room for God Yeah, so what you're doing is is not putting food in your system because it's supposed to give you focus clarity Mm-hmm of God's touch and God's presence which is weird because I feel like she was almost kind of doing it on her own But then we're gonna get to that's that's

Tactic number one for exorcism so they tie you up and they don't feed you that was one nice thing with the evangelical religion They got rid of that. Yeah And of course whenever you do fast you're mostly just thinking about the pot luck at the end of the day Well, I Henry I'm gonna I know you've done more work on the epilepsy than I have so she became hypersensitive to smells and sounds It's that's all it all pings. Yeah, that all pings Yeah, she particularly like the smell of food would make her sick like the clinkings of spoons and forks would drive her fucking nuts Like these all these tiny little things that was all you know me only oh me. I think what's called mezzo-thelio me. Oh me so So that's something else

Mezzo-thelio me Wow, I still can't say People bring that up every once in a while. It's like I could fucking do that Mezzo-thelio me oh my oh Oh, hey, yeah, I learned that how that's the dig suck face. I was talking about last week. Oh, hey, yeah Oh, hey, yeah. Well, sometimes Annalisa wanted to eat but either couldn't bring herself to swallow food Sometimes she couldn't even bring herself to open her mouth and this condition came and went with enough frequency to cause rapid and sustained Weight loss thinner. Yeah, but simply Annalisa's brain was already in a precarious position

Before the priest confirmed to her that the problem was demonic infestation Oh, man But once that verification was made it was near impossible for her to turn back by herself Yeah, instead it should have been the responsibility of the parents to put a stop to all this before it went too far But they had also put all of their chips into the demon bet I'm not saying I justify it in any way shape or form But if it seems like she was fairly unresponsive to the treatments that they were doing right so she they were putting her on pills It wasn't really working whatever their ancient techniques to cure epilepsy none of it took place

So I can almost see the desperation of the parents if you really do believe in God enough to buy into this thing Like honestly you you in a way you think you're doing the best thing for her. Yeah, they weren't the intent was positive Yeah, I guess so but it's all fucked up because it's all obviously fake. Yeah, it's all I mean the intent is positive Yeah, I mean the intent is it's like I mentioned last episode. It's like the they want So I think the parents also wanted to believe that this is temporary like that that story that we covered maybe a few years ago Where their kids are all tied up and all the parents had really stupid haircuts and they were like religious It's not like that. No, they didn't they didn't think that they were committing child abuse or young woman abuse. No, she was 24 She was I mean she was an adult. Yeah, she was an adult absolutely and that would be it

That's a that's a defense that's made later on. Okay, but yeah, she's she was 24 Years old and and they would try to get her to eat. Okay, like they really would and she would say I want to eat But she just couldn't and then eventually it got to the point where she convinced herself so much that she couldn't eat that Someone should have stepped in and shamed a fucking feeding tube down a thread Oh, they should have put a line in there. Yeah But once the priest said it was demons as far as the Michaels went no one could ever for the rest of their lives Convinced them that it was anything else. Hmm But predictably the priests actually weren't even doing that great of a job taking care of Annalisa

When she got so out of control that her family had to take shifts watching over father all went on vacation What couldn't be reached? Hey, where'd he go? What's happening? This is fucking Europe they go on vacation for like 14 weeks a year in the middle of an exorcism Of course You how many times we try to go to like some little shoppy somewhere and it's been there like that gets are done for the day And they just like they just stop selling shit Okay, I'm just saying we're in the midst of a pretty important situation if you do believe she is possessed by demons Maybe don't clock out right now. No, no, and they're like the demons will wait when my siesta

It's carnival cruise line tickets. I can't miss out. Well, this is a weird This is a weird time between the first small exorcism and the actual Approved exorcism like they've got they've got their permission to dip their toes into the water But the full exorcism has not been proved. Okay, just yet But he does know that he's supposed to be on call like this is a woman that is in distress and shit is going in Terribly wrong at the Mikkelhals and yet vacation just cut to him on the beach with a sunscreen on his nose sunglasses on Well instead the Mikkel family were visited by the man who at first caught wind of Annalisa's condition from Thea

Hine that man was father rhodoic Now when father rhodoic first arrived Annalisa was in a trance state and when he sat down with her and held her hands She announced that father rhodoic was speaking with Judas Iscariot himself. Oh more on him later Okay, don't worry about it. You get too close to me. I'm gonna flip on you Do not Judas I love the coin So after father rhodoic told Annalisa that he was there to help he pretty much left the house I'm here to help. I'll help you out. I'll be back later But for reasons unknown Annalisa came outside and slapped him on the cheek. Whoa

Now this doesn't seem like that big of a deal to us. Oh, it seems like a pretty big deal to me It's rude, but not earth-shattering. You know women slap man every day Yeah, but to many Catholics the striking of a priest is just about the surest sign. There is that someone is possessed I see one on a plane. I just want to go like I believe in the devil That's scary that's scary and father rhodoic was one of those people and so now that rhodoic was on board after she slapped He's like up possession possession. Wow We got one he conferred with the other fathers who would involve themselves in Annalisa's case and all those fathers together And they're little hen clocking club

They all had father all right to bishop stangle to once again ask formal permission to perform a full Exorcism ritual and because Annalisa had dared to strike a man of the cloth Wow permission was given and a dream team of exorcists was put together to drive the demons From poor Annalisa Mikkel. This is it was father. It was father rhodoic. It was father alt It was Hakeem Elijah, which honestly was incredible. They could even get him. I love Hakeem I mean because of him the Knicks aren't NBA champions and never will be well Maybe they're they're kind of good again this year, but yeah, of course Houston Rockets, man. Yeah a trauma there You brought it all up. Thank you. Sorry. We're actually really happy when the Houston Rockets one. That was a guy was a cool

probably work So this is a this is a slap that's almost bigger than when Steven slapped Irene on the real world Well, are you talking about real-world Seattle right now? Now we're getting Gen X Now while father alt led the majority of the exorcisms the priests including father rhodoic and father Roth Rotated rolls. Hmm. There was a new guy brought in named father Arnold Renz and father Arnold Renz became a trusted spiritual advisor to Annalisa There's a lot of old dick around Annalisa

These guys keep sharing around because honestly, according to I was reading but the Roman rights I got a copy of all of this shit They've the actual like exorcism manual of the Catholic Church You're supposed to have women there if it's a woman like it's supposed to be women of good repute so And then pin her down. They're the ones that are supposed to hold her so they're not there to perform the exorcism They're there is the body is the bodyguards. Yeah, they're bodyguards Chaperone. It's basically a chaperone to make sure I guess to make sure I guess the priests are gonna I don't know they're always gonna make a lick

It's like when I went I don't know when the doctor brought into my female doctor brought in that male nurse to watch her touch My dick and balls and he's just there watching the how many fucking sets of dicks of balls You got to see all day. He didn't ask for this. He sees so many. He doesn't see any Well father Arnold Renz was 64 years old at the time and a lifelong student of the church and while he wasn't half Schizophrenic like father alt was father Renz still had a personality that was tailor-made to believe in the power of Exorcism when Renz was psychologically evaluated during the negligent homicide trial concerning Annalisa's death it was determined that Renz was Psychologically healthy, but he did have a deeply religious personality rooted in magical mystical thinking

Meaning he believed in both the supernatural and in the power of ritual to combat Supernatural evil you are supposed to have that belief system to be an exorcist Yeah, I assume so. Yeah, you're supposed to fully believe in it And it is interesting because the manual after Vatican 2 says like well you have to make sure to that you never you never misjudge a possession for psychological illness and then they begin to show all the different ways that the devil can fake Psychological illness. So you're just like so it just comes down to it. He this man needs an exorcism Wow And so what you had in the end was a group of priests some fairly reasonable some fanatical who pushed and pulled each other's

Beliefs and opinions for nine months all while Annalisa Mikkel wasted away and died right in front of them Geez now the first of 67 official exorcisms began at 4 p.m. On September 24th 1975 Cal Ripken only did 65 This is definitely breaking some records in present where Annalisa's family her boyfriend Peter and three priests This of course increased the pressure on Annalisa to act the part of a possessed individual Right now as far as what ritual was used the priests followed the exorcism Right as it is written in the official ritual works of the Catholic Church Which is basically a grimoire full of magical spells called the ritual

Romanum you want to hear a section from it please I cast you out on clean spirit with every satanic power of the enemy every Spectre from hell and all your failed companions and the name of our Lord Jesus Christ be gone and stay far from the scripture of God I just shat my pants Is that okay? Is that okay if I do it right? I was a shit demon man. I did too Brothers But stigmata Now these rites are extensive sessions of repeated trance-like prayer with

Intermittent periods of rest in which the participants are encouraged to have coffee tea true and cake I enjoy you ancient supper by the judge of the living and the death by your creator, but the great of the whole universe Now when the rite begins the priests invoke God Along with all the angels and saints and once their deity and lesser demigods have been petitioned the priests continue with the prayers Sometimes these prayers are spoken solo by the head magician or exorcist in this case This is all magic, dude There is absolutely no difference between this shit and the rituals that we talked about in our Alistair Crowley series Absolutely, none. Exactly. They're not eating shit with tea. They might as well

And sometimes these prayers are spoken by the entire magical circle, which is the congregate They call it the cat congregation, but you've got a magical circle there That's the exact same thing that we've seen magicians use some right hand-path magic again and again and again This is right hand-path magic and they don't call it a banishment, but they definitely do they do they set the whole top if you read the Whole the whole right they go and they make sure that everybody is fucking like they banish Demons from the center or they create a magical circle. They do all the fucking bullshit. They've got all their accoutrements They got their cassock, you know that they wear props. Yeah, a lot of props. They've got their holy water, you know, that it's certain specific The the goal is if you could get her to like a holy place

That's where you'd want to be essentially like you'd want to put her in a church You want to put her at some kind of like saintly place some kind of site whatever and then the other thing is you bring out these little like They're fucking chachkies. Yeah, like humbles So if I don't think and they're in special little boxes and you're supposed to put them on her body in certain places So it's just never the Eucharist because if a Eucharist touches the head of a demon it can actually infect every Eucharist that exists Sounds like wow satanic. It sounds like a satanic bingo hall. Yeah, it's all this fucking church talk shit about like it's literally they do it Yeah, it's like a Chicago Cubs fan just willing his team to win Well in between their spells and chance the head exorcist addresses the demon directly using a surprising tool

Oh, well, one might think something along the lines of the power of Christ compels you would be the biggest offensive weapon When an exorcist uses more than anything else Questions Larry King According to question questions questions Now according to the lore the reason why questions are an exorcist greatest weapon against demons is that demons are for some reason Incapable of asking questions in return. It puts them on the defensive. Oh They are simply put Unequal to humans in this way. Well, that's that's you're lucky the rules are like that. Yeah, that's a fun make them up

There. Yeah, it's also kissles biggest The biggest weapon against kissle is question questions Question the Glaffling group PBS Question no such the exorcist can keep the demon at bay with endless queries. Yeah, you like apples Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No. No. Yeah. Yes caught you in a lie Mostly food related questions am I handsome See if a priest can trick a demon into revealing his identity through a series of questions like fucking Rumpel still skin Then the priest has power over that demon just like the girl in Rumpel still skin has power over Rumpel still skin when she learns

The evil imp's name and Welch is on their deal. Why does it never end in her commanding Rumpel still skin to have fucking sex with There are need around I don't think that she was very attracted to it That's what I have seen that porn Oh all ideas have been taken by the big porn industry. Yeah, I think it was called Rumpel hard dick I think the most clever but okay, I was gonna go with Rumpel cock skin Maybe maybe I'm imagining maybe that was from the old-school clerks comic. Yeah But really I mean this whole idea of names This is a magical belief that runs across most mystical belief systems going back to the ancient Egyptians

Like you go back to the story of raw like apparently like there was there's a story of someone finds out raw's name true name and Gains power over him and basically if you know a person or entities true name Then that makes them vulnerable and this head it's one of the biggest magical principles There is and it's also the one that I understand the least okay because it's the idea that it just played with this idea that Marcus is not Marcus Marcus is not dog meat right Marcus is this the spark he's something else inside of it Yes, it's Marcus Marcus. I mean your real name is probably something like jerky boy or old stink fuck. Okay, so you're saying that a name is Essentially an essence that the true name is the essence the essence of someone and then if you can capture their essence Then you can hold power over that like unfortunately mine is Rumpel hard dick

Oh God, I didn't have a control over myself Hmm so once the priest obtains enough information about the demon like why they possess the victim and when they attend intend to Leave the next step is to order the demon to leave the victim and return to hell where it belongs Because that comes from when Jesus Christ did his first exorcism because he basically they I was reading the story of it Is that they brought a possessed boy to his disciples? They couldn't figure out what to do and so they brought a Jesus Christ and the first thing he does He's like you fucking it. He's aren't holy enough. Let me do it properly. It's because all of your fucking idiots And so he went in and he literally was like game and

It does and then the demon left it's because he was holy enough to do it See but it's also important for those involved to remember that the demon is not overtaken the victim's Consciousness instead the demon has taken over the will of the possessed Hmm meaning that exorcism is in a way somewhat about the power of positive thinking which is of course another magical concept Yep Now when the first of the 67 exorcisms with Anna Lisa Mikkel began She was talking fairly normally with everyone in the room or at least normal considering the circumstances, right? But once she was sprinkled with holy water

She roared and raged while her body trembled and twitched her father her boyfriend and a family friend all tried holding her down But even with the strength of three grown men this emaciated 24-year-old woman came close to overpowering them I did that same damn thing when I went to see my first 4d movie and they spritz you with water Honestly, have you ever tried to pin down a really strong thin white woman? Not in a hard way, but you know what I mean like Not in a legal way. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen these videos, right? I've seen these videos Videos I'm talking about talking about. I'm talking about like Pete public freakouts Someone is going through a psychological fit. They do show different amounts of strength a lot of strength Yeah, I mean especially like some sort of like seizure like some sort of seizure fit like it is the strength is insane

It is yeah, I can't even hold down Jerry half the time Yeah, because he sees a squirrel and I'm like God dang it Jerry and then you know it's tough to stuff to when someone really has the passion to Do something. Mm-hmm. It's very difficult. Look at what we did with podcasting Well at times Annalisa would tell them to quote put away that shit cool referring to the holy water or she'd call the priest You dirty sow or You shit guy you shit That sounds like one of those things that you think about like a later on like you'd be like, oh that was a bad Yeah, I should have caught them. It's a shit guy. I kind of like that one

Now when the priest asked the standard questions of who are you? Why are you here and when are you leaving? Annalisa gave no answers. Hmm. So father ends fell back on prayers and calls for aid from the Virgin Mary as well as various saints He's basically falling back on the rituals as they're laid out in his grimoire Naturally, it did no good whatsoever and by the end of it Annalisa was merely furious Aggravated and in far worse condition than when the exorcism began. So it was a success It's hard though because you imagine at some point like if I was sort of kind of faking it and not Also riddled with whatever it is going on. She was really far gone. It's some point. I'd be like, all right guys We did it. It's gone

Well, the problem is that they with these exorcisms they kept saying it's gonna get worse before it gets better Yeah, and that and that they kept moving the goalposts again and again and they would get and we're gonna talk about it But they would get moments of hope that would show them like oh, we are on the right road. That's a devil lying to you Oh Well all told the exorcism had lasted from 4 p.m. Until 11 30 that night seven hours Okay, and the following 66 exorcisms performed over the subsequent nine months would last anywhere between two at the least and Nine hours at the most Kicking at eight. Yeah, yeah

Now the first exorcism of Annalisa Mikkel was merely chronicled by hand by Father Renz But on the suggestion of Teahein Father Renz began tape recording the sessions starting with the second one held five days later Okay And one of the reasons why the Annalisa Mikkel possession case has become so famous Outside of Germany in the last decade or so is that the audio from one of the exorcisms has long since been posted to YouTube Where anyone can find it at any time and actually we played this many many years ago When we were we covered our I think we covered it in an episode called possessed or cat noises. Yeah

And while the actual content of Annalisa's ravings can't be understood unless you know German It speaks to the pure power of the tapes that they're no less chilling even if you don't understand what she's saying Let's listen to about 30 seconds. Yes, let's do it. German also sounds like a pretty good language to be possessed in it Oh, yeah I Think she's nine Alright, man, and also would you like a diet coke with that or Wow, well, that is I mean

Really is I mean, she's definitely feeling something. Yeah, no, she's screaming. No, she's screaming. Yes. She's calling Confessional that shit thing. Yeah. Yeah, and so then she's she's screaming about the confessional She's talking about the Catholic Church and and being as blasphemous as she possibly can be I mean no jokes. How did she have the vocal cords to do that for nine hours? We'll talk about that here in a bit. Okay, there is there are theories behind that that was impressive It is now I'd always assumed that these tapes had been leaked Considering how secretive the Catholic Church usually is when it comes to exorcism and especially considering these tapes were used as evidence in a Neckwish and homicide trial, but to the contrary the priests themselves made the tapes readily available

Worldwide as proof that the Church's reforms were resulting in demon attacks Yeah, or rather that God was letting these demons attack because he was pissed off about the Vatican II reforms So this is all just 100% political. Yeah, it's weird. It really is. It's kind of interesting how they they did use this has been like say Wow, okay These priests believe that Annalisa was suffering molestations from a malevolent entity who had taken over her will not her soul Meaning that her words and deeds were not her own malevolent molestations. Yeah, no as such the priests believe that her intermittent Epileptic seizures were not misfiring neurons, but demons shaking her and pushing her about the room Hmm see epilepsy is often made worse by stress. Oh, yes, and the longer the exorcisms went on

Yeah, the more stressed Annalisa became and the more stress she became the worse her epilepsy got the worst tremors got the worst The hallucinations got right everything eventually her hallucinations began manifesting as separate Identities and this is where Annalisa participated in the feedback loop the hardest also imagine She's going through this and there was a part of it Maybe she's going through all of this and there is stuff that she is kind of tripping out on the scenario So she is acting the way they want her to she is appearing to be demonic But also what if she's also having many seizures as she's going she's having seizures

Because people talk about like one of the things that come up is the personality changes involved with epilepsy and how like you really Can say stuff you don't mean or sound like somebody else Especially after you've had a seizure like if you come out of it you a lot of times they they say you don't remember what happened Or they like they're in a funk. They're like all fucked up after it Especially you've had like a minor seizure something because there's some of them that you don't necessarily like it's not full grand Mall yeah, I can you you just go blank right pop back up and you've had a seizure no one knows now Well, the exorcist kept asking her the names of the demon or demons tormenting her and in order to please her unwitting tormentors and Annalisa created personalities for the demons

Since Annalisa was an intelligent studied woman She chose a mix of biblical and historical figures to play the villains in this shared fantasy Okay, although she only identified six demons. She claimed to have been inhabited by seven What do you mean only that's a lot of demons hey, you know hey could be many more than that You should be thankful. I mean I've heard of exorcism cases where people say that they've been inhabited by 50 demons 60 demons Like it goes it goes pretty high Okay, he did the six demons because it's better than the 70 minutes like six minute abs Versus the seven minutes, of course. Well, here's the seven the betrayer Judas Iscariot

The fallen angel Lucifer boy the Christian hating Roman Emperor Nero cover one day But his stuff is actually far more exaggerated than you think. Yes. Hey, it was a dog Hitler. Oh, he was new in hell New bar on black. Yeah, it was Kane undertaker's brother The biblical cane enable a disgraced 16th century priest named Valentin Fleischman cool and a further Unnamed entity Steven Miller Now Valentin Fleischman is an obscure historical figure to most people but to Annalisa He was kind of a local boogeyman almost a Catholic urban legend Fleischman was a priest in Bavaria who was defrocked and

Excommunicated for being a womanizer and a drunk a brutal bully who beat a man to death in his own parish It doesn't sound fun, but it also is kind of cool. It must have been a it. It was an exciting mass. Yeah Yeah, that is for sure when the priest beats 10 a.m. Still doing communion or what are we doing here now for Annalisa's purposes Fleischman played an important role While the other historical figures represented persecution or betrayal Fleischman represented the corruption of the priesthood and therefore the corruption of the Catholic Church Vatican II once more And these figures began showing up fairly early on in the exorcism process

Both Lucifer and Nero were present during the session on September 29th the first one that was recorded What she was doing character work though. Well almost yeah, yeah, she was Yeah, and work. Come on. They had said some they had a tone like they all had different tones She did also have to say like I am Nero That is not no she could do Alice. She could just be SNL's new Alec Baldwin. Oh Don't bring them up. He's a murderer. I know what happened But to give you an idea of what Annalisa actually said during her exorcisms Henry will first read an excerpt from a Lucifer speech While I will take Judas

Okay, now here in this speech Lucifer is the persecutor the one who punishes Annalisa But interestingly the most powerful figure of demonic evil in existence Seems to mostly be concerned with interrupting the day-to-day life of a college student. This is just what I'm doing today That's just what you're doing today Lucifer how bored are you in hell right now? Let's just say I've done all the puzzles The pretentious one is obsessed. This is our work. She cannot take any exams I'll take care of it. The snot nose is cursed. I will not let her free I will not get out alone. Oh, and we are so many inside

The snotty snot is ours. What you have to pray much more by order of the Virgin Mary They should still recite a rosary or else we cannot come out this affair will last at least for half a year still By order of that lady people should fast. She was cursed from the beginning. She was cursed before birth Well, I mean he's he gave them the exit plan. He did wait out six months. Yeah, but still hey, okay Yeah, it's gonna be a rough six months. It's gonna be hard six months But they don't understand how fast six months can go especially to get older. I know doesn't time keep on going Yeah, yeah, okay. So it was Lucifer. That's Lucifer and here is Judas Okay, who takes the role of both a critic commenting on the current state of the Catholic Church and

The role of the one who taunts the priests participating in the exorcism Let's not forget there There are many people who believe Judas was more powerful than Jesus because without Judas Jesus is not Christmas Judas is a part of God's plan People standing during Holy Communion. This pleases me more than kneeling. I hate it That cassock that you wear the great majority do not wear it anymore. They no longer obey the Pope in Rome It is the one in Rome who keeps the church going father ends I know you have been to China and there you have offended me much you snatched souls from me

It's China the one from Frankfurt father Rudewick has expelled me several times But now he can no longer do so because he is so My heart my heart good proud goes down there to Portugal and preaches of the Virgin Mary and speaks of the apparitions in 1917 no one believes in them nowadays That one is taking so many from me the snotty slut That's stupid that cursed one Well, what's all this snotty slut stuff? I don't like snotty. That's the amazing that is actually the most Common insult that the demons used to talk about Annalisa. They call her snot. No, it's not no

Not knows shows up again and again and again and again It's it's the only thing she can think of really kind of sounds like machine gun Kelly's diss on M&M Just kind of calling the priest old a bunch not knows. She's not a roaster Yeah, I mean she doesn't know how to properly take somebody apart never mind herself Especially as a character sure what I want to talk about a being a character comedian and just how difficult it is Think of different perspectives of different angles, especially from somebody else's shoes. Yeah, absolutely. It ain't that's why I have higher empathy Yes, yes, you do Well, I think that she is also she was a very sheltered human being so like snot knows that's like that's the worst thing that anyone's ever called

Oh, it's cold and flu season. Yeah, I would appreciate a little bit of respect and calling herself a slut often and to be I feel like it actually kind of Reflects her relationship with Peter, too and like all that kind of weird old-school ideas of their romantic relationship And just that could be like a held hands a little too long once Of him Now the different demons the Annalisa channeled could be identified by their tone of voice expressions and way of speaking Lucifer for example spoke majestically intelligently and always to the point okay Hitler on the other hand Just barked hi over and over again

Which I think spoke to how little Annalisa actually knew about Hitler. Yeah, this is not surprising She should have knew a little bit more. Yeah, I feel like they were taught some of that in the schools at the time This is 1975 man. This is not that long after World War two I think most Germans were trying desperately trying to forget Hitler at this period in their time You know like that it was very highly traumatizing and highly embarrassing part of their history Sure, I think so horrible in one particularly long exorcism in November of 1975 one of the exorcists probably father alt Decided to get to know each of the demons a little bit better by asking them. Hey, why are you in hell? We just put on a little record here

Soothing music notice I did wear my best best little suit. Please. Let's get to know each other Hitler was there for the usual reasons. What was that because he'd killed so many and then killed himself. The thing was killing himself That was a big crime. That was a big crime because all he has to do is say I'm sorry right before he dies And then he has to go to heaven. Yeah, the old Dahmer effect Okay, Kane of Kane and able was in hell because he slew his brother Yeah, sure Judas said that he went to hell because he despaired Okay, and Lucifer went because he wanted to rule not serve although it is not accurate that Judas would be in hell Because he did ask for forgiveness according to boo boo that then he hung himself

It's almost like I think that he actually would go to heaven But if he hung himself, then that's an unforgivable sense. Yes, it is even if you ask for Yeah, you can do it suicide. It's from for some reason suicide It's like the worst thing you could do within the Catholic Church. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you really I think he might be more impurgatory of them. Well, we'll see. Yeah, you can't say. I'm sorry We can't say I'm sorry and then you know hang yourself. You have to you have to just stick it out Yeah, and die the old-fashioned way death by train

Well as far as father Fleischman went he was damned because he quote administered his office so badly Yeah, he didn't office mix up. That was really what it was. It was his lack of delegation skills and beating a man to death on the parish Oh, you should have delegated. Yeah. Yeah, what was intriguing though was that there was one demon who never named himself Throughout and the entirety of Annalisa's exorcisms. He only spoke to the pronoun I Okay, and on the night of the get to know you session father Ren's questioned these demons from 4 p.m. Till past 1 a.m. But never got the name of the seventh demon I mean people ask me to do detective popcorn of the Q&A's and stuff like that I can't imagine doing it for like nine hours. That's hard because you have to come up with shit for nine hours

Absolutely. Well, if you listen to the exorcisms, it does tend to come back on itself quite a bit Yes Now in addition to taunting the actions of the priests and Annalisa speaking as the demons were called the priest names Sal carcass was another favorite, but most you just call plain old asshole. Oh, yeah Okay And while Annalisa ranted as these demons her voice would change from the sweet sounds of a German frau line to an undulating horse Scream, yeah, it's very black metal. Yeah. Yeah, it was said that the words and phrases came out like muddy bubbles bursting

I love that. Fuck phrase. I love that. It's a really good description Yeah, but telling Lee no matter which demon was speaking whether it be the ancient Roman Nero or the fallen angel Lucifer The voices would always come through in a rough rural Bavarian dialect. Don't speak out your possess doesn't mean you need to forget your roots. That's right. It's very true But even though Annalisa would growl and scream for hours on end her voice was never hoarse afterward No matter how loud or how long she yelled Wow, no while some point to this as proof of possession. There is a reason behind this phenomenon Was she eaten Vaseline like Stefan Marbury did was what for what? Oh Steph had a small mental break

I love Stefan. He's actually like the Michael Jordan of China with basketball So good for him, but he had a small mental break and he ate a whole bunch of Vaseline on YouTube for some reason I mean, but it didn't really help anything. No, it doesn't but anyway, he's doing great now That's good. Yeah, the number one shoes number one shoes sold in China. No shit Are he's literally the Jordan of China? Yeah, yeah, it's very well It's very possible that Annalisa as well as other possession victims Unconsciously tapped into a vocal style used by Tibetan monks where they're able to vibrate to registers simultaneously, which is why some people say like that's why

Exorcism, you know what there's two voices. Yeah, that sounds like there's two voices It sounds insane or as far as how she was able to keep her voice clean She was able to replicate techniques used by Mongolian throat singers Like that this is some sort of did she have a history of knowing who these people were no not at all But it is the same thing like it is the same like these those guys can do that throat singing for hours on end and they're fine Okay, you'd like because it's like you sing and make throat noise. I was like Are you trying to court me? They're concerning her ability to understand other languages

That's always something that comes up in exorcisms again and again in possession cases. They can know language. They don't know It's knowing the future. It's being that kind of speaking a language They don't know this seems to be at least in the Annalisa Michael case an Exaggeration okay on the part of the priests where one source claims the Annalisa was able to understand Chinese because demons understand all languages because they've been around since the world's creation The other source reports the opposite See the demons knew German and they knew Latin at least they knew Latin passively well Which isn't surprising considering how devout of a Catholic Annalisa was was bound to pick up some

Who when father Ren's asked her something in one of the Chinese languages the demon told him that if he wanted to ask something? Ask it in German. Maybe he's just racist. Yeah, it does sound like that But interestingly Annalisa's exorcism took the same pattern as her pre-exorcism possession After the demons were in the driver's seat for a little while Christian figures then began speaking through Annalisa Mickle once you get to season four Oh, yeah, you really do need to start adding characters. You got to figure out otherwise sideplots Absolutely, you got to get a duck in there something like that. Sure. Oh, that would be fun Has anyone ever been possessed by an animal? Oh?

No, you had just have that was just you do you remember doing that what oh wow Drawing from her knowledge of Christian history and Annalisa began speaking as Padre Pio yeah for one the guy that we talked about last episode So it's speaking as a peasant named Barbara Weigand who had received visions of the Virgin Mary calling for the renewal of religious life It's all very on theme here. Yes, and she spoke as Terese Newman a German mystic Who consumed no food other than the Eucharist for 40 years straight and also claimed to spend 40 years without drinking water Well, that's not possible. So No, it's a lie, but maybe she had a big thick Eucharist. Yeah, because I you can get a big prime cut of bread the biggest one

Yeah, yeah, and then it does turn into blood and body You got to put peanut butter on them. You're gonna crumble up. You gotta put them in a meatloaf side stories LP OTL at gmail.com. Can you put a pepperoni on the Eucharist? Can you make it more like a lunch? Religious though. Oh, yeah, welcome. No, that's not true Henry. You don't want to piss off the Eucharist. That's right Whatever man, it's shitty bread. You piss off one you piss off all I like bread with grain in it. Well, oh, yeah, can you put something on it or focaccia? Oh, I've been also getting back into great poop. Oh, oh, yeah, I got some great poop. Oh, it's nice

Now based on the appearance that Annalisa was speaking as both demonic and divine beings It was decided that this was not a demonic possession, but rather an atonement possession Okay ordered by God to demonstrate his displeasure with the church I just keep on moving those goalposts and trying to figure out how do we validate our way to I guess because they're gonna put in an Invoice mm-hmm. Yeah, how do we how do we fucking box this up and make it look like exactly what we want it to be? Yes, but naturally after calm periods with the Christians in control the demons would return often violently in one session Annalisa grabbed Taya Hine by the throat with the strength of a bear and almost strangled her sweet As I said earlier, the biggest problem with this case is that it's difficult to tell whether the people involved are telling the truth

Or embellishing events to strengthen their case through the extreme Fallibility of memory. I mean, they also watched a girl die and they're on they're in court Yeah, they got to figure out what to say. Yeah, they get their stories straight before they go fucking go to jail That's right. There's very real consequences here Well, for example as far as that memory thing goes father Ren's claimed that he once brought Annalisa three glasses of water One with holy water from love one with holy water from San Damiano and one containing tap water This is like a Chris Farley sketch with that. We replaced your coffee with with From what Ren said and Annalisa called the holy stuff San Damiano shit water

And only drank for the tap despite not knowing which one was which okay, who knows but she also might have been you know And father Ren's might have also been giving her subtle clues of like go for that one Yeah, maybe this is the one that you want Now as far as how these demons found their way into Annalisa or perhaps why God chose her for possession Annalisa's mother Anna had a couple of theories and they both involved curses from evil women The first possible curse came from a World War two refugee in the village of Liebelfing where Annalisa was born Anna claimed that the curse was cast out of envy that Anna and Joseph Mikkel were doing well Oh, this is a way that sounds like my mom's

Yeah, it's because they were jealous of the way that we were living our lifestyle Yeah, with the stolen cable that you guys know it's the stained glass Look at all look at all one of it's a heron. It's a heron So the Michaels were doing well this refugee was struggling to survive. So she put a curse on okay, and Anna and Joseph I got it too. Yeah, I gotta see her. No, and then Joseph even tried tracking her down to ask like did you curse our daughter? Can you one curse her please? Yeah, but she's dead. Yeah. Well, well then the curse should die too. Yeah I don't know if it works like that. My ex's mom had to clear all my soul of curses that had been placed on me by various jealous actors So I know it is

Right the other possibility as far as who cursed Annalisa was the wife of her dead older half-sister's father the wife What the wife of her dead older half-sisters? Father, okay, okay? Why would he why? Why this woman in 1947 Anna? Had a relationship with the man at her father's sawmill and had a child with him named Martha This was before she was with Joseph. Oh, wow. That must have been a big deal. I do been a big deal must have been a pretty Uh, I don't know sawmill. Yeah, the dangerous place to have sex. You just wipe the dust off and then you stick in it

Yeah, I guess so and then Joseph married in 1950 But Martha died at the age of eight, but that's inconsequential. Oh, that doesn't matter. Yeah, no the concert. Bye Martha. You're dead. Bye Bye. Wait, wait, wait. Okay the consequential part is that Martha's biological father Married another woman who was jealous of Anna's good fortune all of us of a family the jealous of our lifestyle They don't like the fact that I we got new plants. You see this dog statue one is Annabelle one's Wendy No one is jealous of any of these people. I got a pink. I got a pink mailbox. Oh, that's nice I mean that she really did think that that this woman was so mad that she had to marry this sawmill worker while Anna Got the prize that was Joseph Mickle. Mm-hmm. She placed a curse on her

Okay, this woman placed a curse on your first boy. I curse upon your first boy Yeah, and that was of course and Alisa Now if God is all-powerful then the only logical conclusion and this is the conclusion that even most religious people come to Including the Catholic Church is that demonic possession happens because God permits it to happen Which is usually filed under moves in mysterious ways Yeah, it's just like 9-11 is a lot of 9-11 isn't it what I think this means is that God searches for someone who is first cursed by a Malevolent person before they're possessed. Hmm. Because I think it's the curse that allows that person to be possessed So God is just going along with anyone. You can just

You've been cursed by this random ass crazy person Yeah, so good so that person technically controls God the most powerful thing they think it controls all reality It's more like he builds the highway for God. They kind of tells tells him like why does God have rules? Well, there's it's nothing Got to yeah, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. It's almost like it doesn't make any sense Well, it has to make you have to have it. I'm just saying like entirely. This is why we have the Pope. You have the Pope Oh, that's right. Oh, I got so confused and I forgot that we had the Pope He's in a bulletproof case not anymore

He's supposed to go to heaven as soon as he gets shot in the fucking head. He clears it up. That's what he's here for He clears it up. He's the one that tells us all this stuff poke John Paul He's saying why because he got shot and he lived whatever Someone's got to come at you and then you got to live But the new one he just drives around like a little Miata or something Yeah, I don't I don't think the bulletproof Pope thing still exists. That's weird. That's not weird Whatever when it came down to Lisa It just so happened that she became the vessel for God's anger because she was already weakened by the machinations of some

Backwood's Bavarian witch Speaking to the point of God's will though demons are not allowed to kill a person They possess it said that they always want to kill their victims. They really want to But God prevents them from doing so because that's going just a bit too far Actually, this does make a lot of sense. Okay. I think this makes perfect sense perfect sense Think about Old Testament God versus New Testament God Old Testament God murders people by the hundreds the tens of the the fucking to do it Tens of thousands. Yeah actively does it hundreds. He drowns them burns them up once he drops rocks on them

Fucking give them plagues. He once drowned the entire world except for a drunk and his sons He had sex with his daughters. Yes, he did. He had to Yep, yeah Because God drowned everyone else But the New Testament God is more about finding God's grace through suffering and misery All off mother Teresa. Oh, so he's passive aggressive And it's all like, you know, I guess you could do that to yourself. So we got a german god and a canadian god What so what are we gonna choose? I guess the canadian one now concerning why Anna Lisa was so open to suggestion

She had a nervous system that was much more sensitive than other peoples more importantly though, Anna Lisa was extraordinarily talented in accessing what's known as a religiously altered state of consciousness or A rask or rask. I feel like this is a it's a trans state. Yeah, that's what exactly what it is But she went into the trans state before her exorcism She was already in it when they showed up and exorcisms are known to induce an altered state of consciousness on a group level That's why religious people see and experience so much off the wall shit during exorcism rights because they're all joined in on it They're all on the same wavelength and there's a bit of hypnotism too because of the rhythmic speaking What you're trying to get across you're saying it over again and again

And you're supposed to listen intently so you are listening intently in the priest no matter what nestles It kind of draws you even deeper into a trance And you're also fucking terrified because you believe that you are in the room with a demon right? What's fascinating though is that demon possession is the rarer consequence of a religiously altered state of consciousness Most of these are closer to what the penicostals experience taken by the holy ghost Oh instead of being taken by the devil like the gleeed singer a corn Lead singer a corn man. He would wear that skirt. You wouldn't wear any pants or panties Our underwear and you can see his balls jiggling and jangling. Oh, what a fun day

What a fun day that summer sanitarium tour of oh boy corn was great on that one 1999 I saw that wonderful time speaking of corn carolina hadalgo is in a movie with a member of corn Well, let's see. Well, we're gonna pump this movie. We'll see if it comes. We'll see if it happens. We'll see what happens Okay We'll see if it comes out Well, basically how this applies to annalisa is that her possession was a form of trance that was maintained And encouraged when a set of rituals were introduced The latin recited during these rituals then maintained the trance the same way a mantra is used during meditation

Because they can keep coming back to it. Mm-hmm And if you want to get non scientific with it, do you want to get a little bit? We will we will something something that the reason why so-called possessed people displayed telepathic knowledge Is because they tap into the shaman healer diviner section of the collective unconsciousness It has been a rough pr year for the shaman. It has been it's been a hard year for the shaman Well, just the name but we're talking the old school. Okay old school shaman say pre 2020 Okay, great 2021. Gotcha. Well, for example annalisa seemed to know when someone was praying for her in another town And at what time?

She also wrote in her diary of various dead souls visiting her including the deceased nephew of father roth And this was a person she had no prior knowledge of you know, i'm all about this I do believe that something like i'm about to you can tap in you can tap in a little bit Especially in extreme duress this type of high high stress and also you are in a trance state I do believe you do it But also, you know, he could have said something at some point about his nephew It was like the 70s and it's like odds are he's appraised. He's got a dead nephew. Yeah Yeah, it all could be lucky guesses that really could be

And you also wonder if like john edwards crossing over not john edwards disgusting politician um If they just throw the stuff out there and then obviously whatever is true sticks and they just kind of forget Yeah, everything else that she says. Yeah, really could be now eventually the demons and the divine both seem to be working against Annalisa's interest almost as if she was subconsciously trying to commit suicide through possession And considering how she was deep into clinical depression by this point She very well may have been doing just that. What's his name from uh joy division Uh, ian curtis. I think about him all the time possession

He had very bad suicide. He had very bad epilepsy really bad and there was very they couldn't really control it He could he could control it. It's just that if he were to control it, then he would have to leave his whole life He would not be able to be the lead singer of joy division or any sort He would not be able to live the life that he wanted to live It's a great despair. It's an insanely complicated, but a really it's a you know great story. We covered it on our joy division series But yeah, it is I think that epilepsy does they seem to go hand in hand a lot of time suppression and epilepsy these types of things They were all rolled together. They really seem to have epilepsy. It's very hard You don't have control over your body, especially in these kind of like this sexual technically

It's like medieval medicine is what they're using. Well there at this point. They're doing like, you know, tegratol Like they're giving medications because yeah, but it's hard. I mean she's actually around the same time period as he encouraged Yeah, like, you know that these medications that they give are so insanely heavy Um, and they can really fuck with everything that you are Um, and it was it causes epilepsy does cause extreme depression. Yeah, I believe people just because it's that It's like why is this happening to me man? Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, why is this happening to me in the idea that life is never gonna be Quote-unquote normal for you. You know, it's it's a difficult very difficult thing to accept Of course

No, while the lucifer personality was telling annalisa that he would be very happy if she were taken to the neurological clinic in lore That's the problem man. They're listening to the fucking The demon but the lucifer has the best idea yet. Yes. Go to the hospital It's the reverse psychology. Yeah, like I would be really happy if you went but she doesn't want to make lucifer happy So she's not going to do what makes lucifer happy Oh my god At the same time the virgin mary and jesus were also telling her that she was going to be a saint for her sacrifice Oh, that's even the worst. That's creates the shitty validation part of it where it's blink

Oh, so your whole life gets to be wasted for the fucking church and barely cares about you Essentially both sides were trying to kill her for different reasons. Yeah, at least in her brain, you know Both both sides are fighting but both sides are fighting for death. Yeah It's like the insurance companies. Yeah, that's very true But both mother mary and jesus would also sometimes give annalisa hope They appeared and told her that she would be released from all demonic possession at the end of october So father's alton rinds prepared for an extended halloween Exorcism

The demon says we're out in october it doesn't seem to matter if you're doing exorcisms or not just wait out the demon I Well, maybe you're incorrect. Maybe you don't know man. You don't know But that's the thing is that that's jesus and mother mary saying you're gonna be released in october Aren't they the most powerful ones? I've still got to do it yourself You got to do it. You got to do it because if they were to do everything for you, I would not take the flavor out of life Yeah, man, because then you didn't choose it. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, that's why it's the same mentality

There's been going on ever since it's this whole thing of like, oh, so god couldn't just save me like mm. Ha ha ha Sure, he can he can do a lot of things Oh, absolutely. He can give you a fucking huge dick if you want to oh, he won't You're gonna tug on it till it's longer Well as that ritual on all hallows eve went on and on and on It appeared as if the exorcism rite was finally working Father fleshman the least notorious of the demons was driven out first followed by hitler cane

Nero and judas in that order. Wow. Yeah, so so lucifer is the closer. Yeah, that's a big perch and I That's the thing the last was lucifer But as each demon left and alisa wretched and screamed Indescribable sounds then once lucifer was driven out and alisa declared that she was free completely free And everyone in the room. This is like the last exorcist It's the same thing where it's the last exorcism where it's just like everything's chill and it seems like oh Well, cool, but again the one thing that you learn from the the roman catholic exorcism manual That's where they get you. There's always a twist the congregation as they sang the closing hymn not 15 minutes later

They were interrupted by a familiar guttural growl and scream It's k. Oh, it's gotta be k Halvard brimstone The mysterious unnamed demon declared that he had not left. Oh all the rest of them have but I ain't gone Wow at 1 30 a.m. The priests again gave up Now for the rest of the year the exorcisms continued on at least a weekly basis But just to get this one out

Yeah, and sometimes even more frequently than that by the beginning of 1976 the exorcisms became shorter And it became more difficult to access any demonic personality Because an alisa's strength was beginning to falter because she's not eating by february She had almost completely stopped eating. Oh, man. She told father rins that she was not allowed to eat that although She might be tremendously hungry. There was a barrier which did not allow her to eat I feel like this is where they should have put a food line in her and this is in the trial They said the same thing. Yeah, it's right around like february that it's like you should have something should have done here She's food. You guys are technically it's been like, okay guys cool

90% done Now give her some food then we can wrap all this shit back up Like, you know, even if we make a milkshake and you fucking hold her nose and you pour down her throat Like the old school ways of doing it. Yeah, oh waterboard via milkshake. Interesting. Sign me up. Sign me up indeed From february 29th on leap day the demons no longer spoke They only raved and roared making mindless inhuman sounds as an alisa's body jerked itself around an Uncontrollable epileptic fits wait till year 20 of our show. Yeah, this is where my characters are all gonna sound like I'm a bat

Oh god, they release me. I love me. I love the I'm a bat character. So That phone But despite this obvious downhill slide Annalisa still made her friends promise that they would never allow anyone to call a doctor for her condition Because medicine didn't help at least according to her kind of perspective and prayer provided at least Some relief. Why are we listening to the sick child for the advice? That's not the person you go to to see like what should we do here being like? I think I can't invite it's out. I mean like I don't think so

She also begged to not be sent to a mental institution But not for any divine or demonic reason Oh, yeah, rather an alisa was simply afraid that a stay in a mental hospital Would prevent her from getting a teaching job if this whole thing ever ended I mean it's all about stigma the idea of being in a german mental institution in the six He's doesn't sound fucking great either in 1970s I would rather be probably rather being a german one than dead than a well It dead or even an american one because I think in the 1970s imagine the germans are probably on the best behavior

Oh, yeah, that's right Yeah, no standing military and all that stuff. Mm-hmm, but by may of 1976 Anna lisa had given up all hope She began telling father all that she knew that she wouldn't survive the summer and soon after she began biting herself Hitting her head against the wall over and over again and punching herself given her those Horrifying black eyes that we've all seen in the pictures from her many exorcisms You have to look at the pictures and I will tell you those were from her Yeah, the black eyes she punched herself in the face that hard Exorcisms were attempted on May 10th 12th 14th and 17th

But all that resulted from those was a chipped tooth from her thrashing and a face that was bruised and swollen from what was Obviously a full mental break. Yeah to this point. It's just like even even I was a priest You just mean like she needs to just go to a fucking hospital. Yeah, of course I mean by June it was obvious even to father alt the Anna lisa was extremely ill Because she hadn't eaten with any regularity for months on end Anna lisa weighed a hair under 70 pounds. Oh my god, Allie McBeal I mean, honestly, Allie McBeal. I think was 90 pounds. Yeah, and she became so Emaciated that her face changed shape completely from that of a beautiful young woman to what she looked wraithlike at the end

That's the that's why the image is why people say like the only real exorcism and you see her face You can be like yeah, that's gotta be possession like you see and you're like no It's months of starvation and beating your own face against the wall Yeah, nine months of starvation and yes beating yourself horrible by the end of June She was showing a fever of 103 and despite the obvious signs that she was dying The priests and the family continued the exorcisms. I got a fever of 103. It's different though. It's really different. Yeah Yeah, very different It's very very different

Really trying to build to a point here building like a building a whole thing like 103 Obvious signs. She was dying right right. Oh, you want to do something dramatic The last exorcism was on June 30th and two days later on July 1st 1976 Annalisa died of starvation barely able to utter her last words I'm afraid I'm afraid mama mama come here. I'm afraid God that sucks Now by the end of this long debacle both the priests involved and Annalisa's parents were stubbornly convinced that demons had killed Annalisa

I mean, it's pretty much because this is what they had to believe They had to in order to live with themselves because they've been listening to this girl and actually doing whatever it is That she wanted them to do. I'm not saying that obviously She is not at fault in any way shape or form Like this is where adults and the people within are of sound mind. She is an adult. She's 20. She's 24 years old She's in gray area. We're in a gray area It's like this thing when you look at me like what do you do with somebody who's obviously out of their fucking mind They need to mean someone needs to come and scoop you and if they're not there to scoop you up, but then also this is why it went to the courts

Mm-hmm. Yes indeed Well in the evangelist spirit that their parents and the priests told the public what they believed happened Okay, they expected fear from people they expected guilt or be like, oh the devil is real like everyone like everybody will blow up Like when they announced that facebook was going to be made up Yeah Instead the press and most germans reacted with outrage That such medieval practices were still being done in the latter half of the 20th century And that these practices had resulted in a torturous death

Think about when we did our nazis in the cult series those years ago Think about the devastation that happened in germany during this time period because of occult practices So it's kind of like this is a lesson that they're like, I thought we all just learned this I think I thought that we all decided on here Yeah, that this superstition was killing millions of people right with any gear of ana lisa starvation father wren's father alt And ana lisa's parents were all charged with negligent homicide Now as we mentioned last episode joseph and ana were represented by one of the lawyers who defended nazis during the nuremberg war crime trials You know, I saw some of that footage. He didn't do a good job

Uh, all of them were convicted So as a defense attorney, I would say and I don't know we had to be there somebody else He's just willing to take these cases. Yeah, he's like the johnny kakram Yeah, nazi germy the priest though. They got a guy named frith job labinsky, oh, I don't want old frith job frith job frith job frith job is when you jerk somebody off normally with your ankles Now despite the many testimonies of the priests who believe that demonic possession was the cause of ana lisa mickle's death That was not the legal case that the defense put forth. That's kind of a misnomer where people think that they actually tried To say demons are real demons are real in court. That wasn't it at all

Instead the defense went with the libertarian argument It was ana lisa mckels constitutional right to refuse medical attention Hey, man, therefore it was nobody's fault, but her own that she died of starvation That was the whole that was the whole argument right to die. You do. Um, yeah, but then they also could have helped her Hey, her parents. I mean, it's just this is we'll be 24. That's a good point I mean in turn the prosecution argued that both the priest and her parents had a responsibility to step in and take charge Because ana lisa was obviously not in her right mind and their actions cost her death because they fed into her delusion

They were validating it and they were a part of the entire scenario. They were a part of the exorcisms They were there like doing they were doing it. Yeah, they were making it worse And to bolster the case the prosecution brought in a psychiatrist who came to the conclusion The ana lisa mickle would still be alive had the exorcisms not been performed Technically, she probably would have been an incredible dancer if she could do the thing we've been all the way back Oh, yeah, absolutely Instead he said the ana lisa should have been tranquilized and force fed while medical professionals figured out What was actually wrong with her?

Basically, this psychiatrist argued that ana lisa developed the delusion of possession in 1975 A psychogenic psychosis is what he called it the priest then provided form and content for ana lisa's psychotic behavior And the more exorcisms they performed the more they damaged her mental state Which made it harder for her to make the right decisions on her own Is it like diabetes in that when you have a diabetic fit and you don't have your insulin and stuff that your brain does start to deteriorate Is it like that with epilepsy? Well, I mean, it's not just epilepsy. It's also not eating. Yes. So each each like fit that damages the brain I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. If you're a doctor, let us know

I don't think so, but I do know that she wasn't eating at all and that definitely damages the brain That definitely damages the help the you know the way you think about things. None of it helps. I believe that Well as a result of this testimony all four defendants were found guilty and sentenced to six months in prison But that judge suspended the sentence and instead gave them all three years probation Okay, father alt and father wrens were both fined the equivalent of $10,000 in today's money While ana and joseph were judged to have suffered enough and were given no real punishment Okay, so it was kind of a slap on the wrist. I mean everybody got the it's just destroyed everybody's life. Yeah, it's just a horrible situation Yeah, but in the end the trial did nothing to change anyone's mind

The priests and the mikkel family both held on to their belief that medical and psychological remedies would have been useless For analysis condition because neither of those things address the existence of demons. No, okay Yeah, especially not in a court. It's difficult unless you get him in there because honestly, lucifer is hard to book. Yeah He is hard to book and he's the main guy Does he lie? You gotta go to him. He might tell the truth under oath. That's I mean, that would be the funnest thing to do, but you wouldn't believe him because he's the fucking devil Every time he said something, it was true. He'd be like, oh the devil only lies. He's like We know that lucifer is all about actually destroying shadows

Destroying secrets a lie bringer. Yeah, training good ideas giving information to the blind big of true Well, ana mikkel stated that the worst of the matter was that in spite of it all No one believed in the devil because of her daughter's death It didn't even do the wanted. Yeah, it literally didn't do the thing They thought it would yeah, and even after the trial the family still could not let their daughter's corpse rest A year after the verdict a german nun had a vision that ana lisa's corpse was lying in perfect condition In her coffin six feet under the ground. I mean, that would be fucking dope. I mean, thanks So if true it would be proof that ana lisa had died for the sins of the world

Oh, yeah, and then they were just like, yeah, yeah, let's get a camera Desperate for some sign that they hadn't given their daughter a painful and unnecessary death Joseph and ana actually had the cops dig up ana lisa's corpse Dig up the corpse Dig up you say the corpse The corpse the corpse Let's fucking all tailgate and shit eating bratwurst drink a big fucking steins I love a huge crowd. Oh, yeah extreme makeover corpse edition. This is this is great. No, it drew a gigantic crowd

Did you see the footage of the disinterment? It's insane like the entire it's wild The churchyard was just covered in people the whole every german fucking press that you could imagine was there This is gonna be fucking it Wow Now once disintered the coffin with the body inside was taken into the church while the crowd waited outside for a miracle Okay, nobody from the press was allowed inside nor were the parents actually allowed to see the body Out of concern that they would be traumatized further. Yeah. Oh, yeah

Yeah, because when it comes out in her like she's got but she's perfect That would be kind of scary too, right if she came out and she wasn't is horrified. No. Yes. No, it was just a corpse Yeah, yeah, they open it up. It was just as decomposed as any other corpse in the graveyard In fact, it was pretty much just a skeleton by this point. I think you think you just open up in your skull Fuck Like I think they pretty much like did the thing where you open it up for a second and then immediately close it like Get the back hose Put her back down

I mean they even interviewed the grave diggers like at who dug her up and put her back under like they Kind of like they were being interviewed by the news and they like kind of had this like smart They were kind of amused of like this idea of like what the fuck did you expect? Of course, it was nothing but a corpse That's what we until you know, no ghosts Only bones I mean, I'm happy it was just a corpse because otherwise she would Yeah, the devil's real alive in there and that would be horrible and yet

The family still believed because in a picture someone took of the disinterred coffin One might see if you're looking hard enough a faint shadow That could be interpreted as the hand of the devil Okay, as far as father alt went he wrote in 1988 that annalisa was not mentally ill at all But was instead quote wide awake in her face interesting. I know that's true That's how they put it because she was so to them They were probably to them. She probably was the closest person to god. They've ever met

I don't want to say they viewed her as somebody she suffered for the sins of of everyone. So they just gave her the religious Uh, basically the religious anyway, she gave it was like the religious version of she flew too close to this Seriously, wow father alt implied that her horrific drawn-out death was a small price to pay small Huh with when when you're dealing with the advancement of god's kingdom at the expense of the kingdom of darkness Yeah, man. We used to send We used to send armies of thousands of knights into the middle east just to kill and to kill and to kill back in the day Startlingly though while membership in the catholic church has been on a steady decline for decades There are now more exorcisms performed than ever, especially right here in america. Yeah, man

No, the exorcisms headed peak in 2020. Yeah now. We all know that the yeah It's different now though because they can have like carls jr. You can do it over like you can do it over assume Like it is different. I would assume. Yeah, I mean we all know that the exorcist is responsible for this That's the one thing everyone knows about exorcism is that after the exorcist came out exorcism spiked And it's never come back down But I think it's also another example of the devil being the best friend the church ever had Yes with membership slipping and times changing in the 60s and 70s It was fortuitous to these old hardliners that something as scary as demonic possession

Reappeared during that time and made pre superheroes again. Yeah, and you need a heal You know, you need you need an enemy and this scary tool is still in use today reportedly over a Thousand exorcisms are done within the borders of our country alone Every single year. Wow. All right. You got youtube exorcists, you know the guy that the guy is a demon The pornography demons come out come out the pornography demons come out. Yeah. Well, yeah zoom exorcists You got those. That's real now fucking about that remote working exorcism Bob Larson's been doing exorcisms over skype for about 10 years now

And he just can he can do fucking 10 a day that way. Wow, and I'm sure they charge for those exorcisms Oh, I mean that's a donation to keep his donation his ministry open And exorcisms are now happening live in mega churches worldwide. How many of those african Exorcism videos have you watched? Absolutely the eats the poopoo like the chocolate eats the poopoo. Yeah Do you come as the cream of the blood? Yeah But in the end it's really all magic The problem is that magic should never be used To replace actual medical attention. What physical or mental whatever you whatever you stodgy old man

I don't it's like a steve jobs would still be alive if you would have just gotten cancer treatment It is unbelievable how my mental health would have been advanced by years had I not tried to use chaos magic to fix it It's hard to use it hard to use semen just to fix bipolar disorder. It really is Yeah, that's the craziest thing the blind spot of steve jobs intelligence. Yeah, he was he thought he was too smart He really did. Yeah, the ego took him down. That's for sure And had ana lisa michaels parents and ana lisa herself not been tainted by superstitious belief in the supernatural And had they accepted that sometimes unfair shit happens for no reason Yeah, and ana lisa mckel might very well be alive today too. She really still could be because the what's 24 in the 70s

Yeah, no, definitely still be around Absolutely. Well, I think the one thing that we have to do now is go dig her up Dig her up and let's see if she's come back. Dig up the core Dig up the corpse. Oh, man. Oh right. Yeah, man. It's never been harder to be skinny ana lisa mckel What a story has fucked up man. Yeah, it is. I love this story though at the same time I just like all of these possession stories and we're gonna cover a lot of them We're gonna we our goal is to go through like we're gonna do a couple of relax fits and kind of to cover more of these stories It's good. Mookie spooky and it's a lot about human psychology as well

Absolutely, and if you really want to get into some exorcism shit From the perspective of the catholics and from the perspective of an exorcist the goats We did an episode on many years back, but hostage the devil. It's we such a great book It's like my favorite one of my favorite paranormal books ever read. It's fucking horse shit, but it's really fun. It's really fun Yeah, um couple announcements number one first of all we are working on a new comic book with our Friends over at z2 the last comic book on the left. It's coming out in spring Uh, we're really excited for you to see it is essentially it's a mad magazine style comic book What's a bunch of different like characters and stuff from last podcast throughout the years and blown out into comic book form?

We're really really excited. Well, I'm sure those characters will be just as interesting as the characters from soul plumber Yeah, they better be There's some new characters coming to so the soul plumber universe that I think y'all are gonna be quite uh satisfied with quite proud of this Very excited quite proud of this and uh, I know it's number two a next week is Thanksgiving And we are going to be taking a week off. We're gonna be putting some replacement episodes up there You guys are gonna we're doing it for again Yeah, but we're gonna say again. Do we take four weeks off a year? We got two in the summer We got Thanksgiving. We got Christmas and gives us

At least a day off and then it gives our employees. It's all about yes. It's about the employees They work so hard for us and so thank you so much for being here on this beautiful beautiful horrible day Of annulise's death. Oh my goodness and thanks to everyone who came out to the shows in north and south carolina Y'all are just so sweet. We're seeing charlesville. Uh, we'll see you in virginia. We'll see you in baltimore I can't wait to go back to balmer. Yeah, balmer. Hmm. It'll be super fun and the shows have just been so fun It's been great to see y'all and um, yeah, we appreciate everyone being so cool with all of the bullshit Yep, y'all are just wonderful. Great. Okay, everyone. Thank you so much for listening Keep on supporting all the shows here on the last podcast network. Hail yourselves. Hail satan. How are you?

My goodness the legends Hail lucifer and to me and to me lucifer i'll feed you good Uh, you know if you're possessed you can't eat right? Oh, man. Sorry, bro. Come on. I'll make a meat. I want a fat double This show is made possible by listeners like you Thanks to our ad sponsors You can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listened to go to last podcast network dot com