Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 478: Juana Barraza - La Mataviejitas

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

This week the boys don their detective caps yet again, breaking down a case that might not be as pinned down as it seems. It's time for one of Mexico's most famous alleged serial killers, the lucha libre slayer, Juana Barraza a.k.a. "La Mataviejitas" a.k.a. The Little Old Lady Killer.

A roast as dark as the night, perfect for fueling the cryptid research and mad ravings required for your podcasting. Don't mind the red eyes, he's just trying to warn you of the bridge! The bridge! Finally, from the caffeine-addled brains of Spring Hill Jack Coffee and Last Podcast on the left, we bring you Mothman's Red Eye Blend. Yes, delicious Panama beans, go to lastpodcastmerch.com to order yours today! Hey, what's up everyone? How you doing? Ben Kissel here with Henry Zabrowski. Yes, me, man!

Yeah, bro, Henry Zabrowski is smoking some of that sweet last podcast on the left, babe. Go out there and purchase yourself some. I hope you enjoy it. We have sativa, we have indica, and we have a hybrid, and I have to tell you, from my personal experience, they are wonderful. Super tasty, live resin, you really get the delicious, weedy taste, which is what I like, and three different experiences. You go to your local vape store and get it! Absolutely, thank you all so much for supporting the show. We absolutely love you. Can't wait to see you on the road and get that vape, put it in your brain, and have a good time. And if you want to set your favorite weed store, give them a call and ask for them by name.

Last podcast on the left, it's weed. Hail yourselves, everyone! Hail Satan! There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that?

I want to come out, up top of this episode. Fantastic! No. No, I'm still unfortunately straight. No, unfortunately I'm still 95% straight, and the 5% of me still needs to see movies up top. Alright, fine. But, I'm going to come out and say at the top of this episode, I'm not for the murder of older women, old women. Fantastic! But with the one thing I know, I am very brave, but I will say is the one thing that I think is unfair in this life,

is how much blame is put on the big fat man for blowing up bathrooms. Sure. In a dookie sense. In a poopy sense. Poopy sense, not domestic terrorism. But I think that more old women need to be blamed for absolutely shithousing. You know, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I agree with that.

Women can dump too. I've been taking enough planes over the last few years to absolutely agree with you on that. A little old lady does more napalm-like damage to the atmosphere of a bathroom. I mean, kissle, not kissle. But any other big old fat man, they roll, I always roll my eyes when you see that guy get out of the fucking airplane bathroom and you're like, what's this guy going to do? And most of the time I know for a fact that he had to sit down, the seat is incredibly warm. You have to sit to pee.

Because he had to sit to pee. And that's the only reason why it's so hot. And it doesn't smell as bad in there. But a little old lady with her babushka, she rolls in there and she's just filled with hate. God knows what. Yes, indeed. Side stories. L-P-O-T-L at gmail.com.

If you're an old lady, let us know. How's it go? Welcome to the last podcast. On the left, everyone, I am Ben, hanging out with Marcus and hanging out with Henry. And I have to say, I agree, and I'm actually going to go one step further. Because oftentimes when it comes to the elderly lady, people will say, oh, don't curse. Say, flark instead of fuck. Don't start with the flark on here.

Don't bring the flark into the show. Because of Guardians of the Galaxy. But we all know for a fact, older women have seen and done some of the most heinous things that could ever be imagined. So I say, curb your concern for the ears of the elderly woman, because they have seen and done worse things than we could ever imagine as young men. More 80-year-old women have sucked Nazi's dicks than any other group in the world. All right. Well, why are we talking about elderly women? Well, because they're dangerous.

And that's who we're talking about today. No, they're not dangerous. No, they're not dangerous at all. She's not an old- This woman murders old women. Well, but she is now the- Old women are the victims in this story. Well, what the fuck are we even-

I'm sorry, flark, are we even doing here? Check out the New Guardians of the Galaxy game. They need our help. Why are you pinching them? Why are you right? Today we are on to a luchador killer. This story is going to be so cool. Juana Baraza.

Yeah. Juana Baraza was a luchadora accused of murdering almost 50 women over the age of 60 in Mexico. The age of 60 in Mexico City between 2003 and 2006. While her lucha name was la dama del silencio, the lady of silence, her serial killer nickname was la mata viejitas, the killer of old ladies. It's not just COVID anymore. No, it's not. It's also, that's pretty on the nose, the killer of old ladies.

It is. I feel like they could have gotten a little bit more creative, like the crustacean monster. As we go through many of the nicknames that Mexican serial killers get, they're very literal. It seems that they keep it short. To the point, you know what I mean? Kill old ladies. And it's more...

Why are you doing all that? Because in Spanish it sounds so much more exotic. La mata viejitas. La mata viejitas. The killer of old ladies? Yeah, that's different. Yeah. It's like, yeah, the killer of Barb's cousin.

Aw. Well, amazingly, the investigation spurred by the old lady killings was the first ever carried out in Mexico as the murders were happening in 2003. There's a lot of police work. Alternative police work in this story. That maybe it's just because we don't spend a lot of time in Mexico that I'm not really aware of the different, let's say, tactics that they use. Yeah, so didn't they get murders she wrote down there?

Because I'll tell you, Angela Lansbury, she's been uncovering cases against the elderly for a long time. It's true. And that show holds up, by the way. It's on Peacock. It is. She's the next to die, by the way. Is she alive?

Yes, she's alive. Oh, good for her. She's alive, dude. Wow. Well, I mean, the reason why this got so much attention and the reason why it got an investigation, the victims were all solitary, vulnerable abuelitos. Aw.

See, while we talk a lot about the less dead here in America, you know, sex workers, gay men, and the like, young female murder victims in Mexico are less than less dead, particularly if they have darker skin. Hmm. But while the most dead victim in America is a little white girl, the most dead victim in Mexico seems to be the abuelita. Oh. Because the abuelita is the most revered and respected member of Mexican society.

They like their old people there. That's nice. Actually, I mean, we just shuffle them off to die. We just put them in a room and we basically, we let them, we let them fuck for free. You know what I mean? They all fuck for free. They get a golf cart if they're in Florida. I just feel like.

And then we just kind of let them go. It's a different culture for the abuelita. See, because the thing is, I feel like they harnessed wisdom. I was just in Florida. Yeah. We all were and hung out with some older people. Who were forced to be there. Yeah.

Over 16, maybe around 70. And they were all wrong. Everybody I met in Florida that was over, over 30 was incorrect. Well, they're children still. And then they just like, Hey, what do you want to say? Grandma? They're like, Hey, you are not JFK junior. And you're like, where's the wisdom?

I don't know. But I feel like in Spanish culture, the elderly woman still harnesses wisdom and she can help you go through life as opposed to now where we have to actively reject the older generation because they're so wrong. You don't think they don't have quay? Ocona menemiso? What does that mean? Cuenon down there?

I don't know how to say it. Quay on a menemiso? I don't fucking know. Fantastic. Well, to put these less dead statistics into perspective, 4,370 women were killed in and around Mexico City between 1993 and 2004 and none of those murders were seriously investigated. But when Abuelitas started dying violently en masse, the first serial killer task force in Mexican history was formed to solve the case.

I guess Mexico never had a serial killer before. Well, we're going to get into that. Well, according to author Susana Vargas Cervantes, one of the big reasons why Mexican authorities are reticent to attribute murders to serial killers is because serial killing is seen as an American problem that stems from our individualism and our lack of strong family bonds. But don't they understand how good we are at exporting our problems? Yeah.

Well, we can just deliver our problems straight to you. We export culture, whether it be Coca-Cola or serial killing, it's a mixed bag. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Susana Vargas, by the way, wrote one of our two sources today. Her book was called The Little Old Lady Killer. It's quite scant on details concerning one of Baraza, but it's fascinating for its commentary on how serial killing is treated in Mexico.

Fascinating. Now, it's hard to wrap your head around the statement that serial killing is an American problem when you consider the level of public violence that has stemmed from cartel murders in Mexico for so many decades. But that's just business. That's just business. Yeah. I mean, about the closest I can come to addressing this disconnect is exactly that.

I mean, cartel murders might be looked at as having a reason behind them, no matter how hollow and evil that reason might be. Yes. They are attempting to replace their own government, essentially, like cartels act as their own little dictatorships that they and then they say, oh, but we also help the neighborhood and we hire people, but also we just like we will make a pyramid of heads on Wednesday. Yeah. Apparently, the gang that has replaced El Chapo, much more nice, much nicer, apparently.

Oh. That's what they say. Everyone gets it, but it's not as bad. Serial killing, on the other hand, is murder for murder's sake without any discernible purpose. What's seen is what's known as an enemy, a breakdown of values, common in the US, uncommon in Mexico, or so the belief goes. But Mexico, like everyone who says it can't happen here, they're wrong in their claim that serial killing is solely an American problem.

And once they're asking for an NBA team. Mexico has just as many serial killers as everywhere else, quite possibly just as many per capita as we've had in America. I feel like serial killing is a human problem, and maybe then just because I don't see race. The human race. Very nice. Well, as we mentioned in the Andre Cicatillo chapter of our book, it might be possible that America appears to have more serial killers because we catch them at a higher rate.

And then perhaps more importantly, we make our serial killers world famous after we capture them. We're sort of in love with them. The entire industry that also makes money next to them. Yeah, that's disgusting. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. You know what I mean?

There are part of the American, like it's this idea of like it's a character in America is the serial killer. We'll see. If you put a bunch of them all together, you got the QAnon shaman. You got the fucking. Oh, he's a serial killer. You got Jeffrey Dahmer with the glasses on. You got George Washington.

They're all the same. God, I would have loved to see Dahmer on January 6th just sucking on Harry Reid's leg or RIP. Mitch McConnell's thigh just. As far as Mexican serial killers go, they've had some pretty interesting cases over the years going all the way back to the 19th century. At the same time that Jack the Ripper was murdering his way through Whitechapel, a man named Francisco Guerrero Perez, a.k.a. El Chalequero, was in the middle of murdering 20 sex workers in Mexico City between 1880 and 1888.

It's not like he went on to an internet forum and got the idea for it. You know what I mean? This is maybe 1880, so he's like, he had this idea independently, parallel thinking. What does his name mean, Marcus? It means Chalequero is basically the rapist, just pretty straightforward. It's like that's one of those in the advent calendar where I say, oh, be healthy today. I close that one. And I say, oh, tomorrow.

Eat chocolate. Yay. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think it means, from what I saw, I think it means like to be forceful, like forcing yourself the man who forces. In the 40s, Mexico had Gregorio Cardenas Hernandez, a.k.a. the Strangler of Tacuba.

Also in Mexico City, Hernandez, or Goyo, as he was called, he murdered four women and buried them in his garden after his wife told everyone that he regularly wet the bed. Does everything have to be content? Can we just let a private moment exist between husband and wife? Well, I know. Esposa to esposa. You mean to tell me I have to come in here and, oh, no, the whole world has to know about my wet pants?

Well, we didn't have to know, but it was all the murders, and then that brought attention to it. So now we're kind of making fun of you for it. Yeah, I should have just. Should have not done that. Suck that up, huh? Dipey. Maybe we're a dipey.

Or don't drink two hours before you go to bed. It's difficult if you wet your pants as an adult, it's a psychological problem. Well, interestingly, Goyo was pardoned in 1976 and gave a speech in Mexican Congress where he was celebrated as a heroic case of rehabilitation. I just want to say thank you guys so much for giving me a shot, as you can see as I stand here next to the podium. Yeah. Dry.

Dry. No piss whatsoever, honestly. Don't got to kill again, huh? Don't got to kill again. That's great. But I don't want to, don't even look at the back of my pants. Oh, I see, he tucked it. He's pissing behind the butt.

Interesting way. Interesting maneuver. Well, not long after that, Goyo met director Alejandro Jodorowsky in a Backstreet Mexican bar by chance. And through that meeting, Jodorowsky made the movie Santa Sangre based loosely on Goyo's life. That's incredible. Goyo.

Goyo's life. Not Goya. Goya is a totally different guy. Oh, nice. But Santa Sangre, have you seen that movie? I never have. That movie's so fucking cool. It's full of blood.

Yeah, dude. It's full of blood. A lot of little people get massacred. Yeah. It's called St. Blood. It is. It makes you feel dirty. Yeah.

I've seen that movie. Yeah. Let's move on. More serial killers. There's a lot of them here. It's hard to be a member of the carnival. Yeah. It is the carnival.

In 2007, a man nicknamed El Poeta Carnival, can you guess what that one means? The Poet Cannibal. Yes. The Cannibal Poet. Yeah. He was found cooking and eating his girlfriend's remains in his apartment. When they walked into the apartment, he's sitting there with a fucking fork and knife in his girlfriend's thigh.

How was the poetry? She was victim number six. Yes. I like to recite my first poem, Yum, Yum. Give me some. Very good. And all of those women had been lured to the Cannibal Poet's apartment by poems and roses.

Don't get lovebomb, girls. Whoa. Really? In 2012, a bus driver named Cesar Labrado was convicted of raping and killing seven young mestizo women who were unlucky enough to ride his route alone at night. He was nicknamed El Coqueto, which translates roughly as The Flirt. Pepe La Pew. The Flirt.

That's what this is. It's like a murder if we want to really get into some good nicknames. Gerard Despardeux is La Flirt. No, he is the squirt. He fucking pistol over an airplane. This guy is just... I just don't know if The Flirt is a pr- it seems a little bit too romantic than... No, The Flirt's...

Yeah, it's a little romantic for a bus driver rapist. Yeah. Yeah, unless he was hilarious. I don't think he was. He could have been very charming. Bus drivers are not... They by nature don't speak. That's not true.

I've had some charming bus drivers in the past. They can be fun. A lot of times they're not here for no nonsense because they got to keep the schedule. They do have to keep the schedule, yeah. They hate wheelchairs. Well, it's hard. They hate wheelchairs. Every bus driver.

But thank God for the wheelchair bound and also for the buses that allow them to board. Are you running for Senate? No. Well, even on the day that Juana Barraza was arrested for killing old ladies, another serial killer named El Mataguez, or The Killer of Gays, was arrested for murdering and dismembering four gay men. El Mataguez, however, maintained he wasn't gay himself. Never.

No way. No way. Well, bro, it just seems like you think about gay people all the time and then you have so much aggression. I just sucked their dicks to make them hard to make sure I knew they were gay. You think maybe you're trying to kill them because you think that if you kill all the gay people then maybe the gayness inside of you will die and then so you're trying to kill yourself almost.

Have you thought about that, bro? Yeah, you're gay, dude. Let's kiss. Well, this guy claimed to be doing society a favor by luring gay men from bars than torturing and hanging them. He even carved a star into the forehead of one victim for reasons unknown. He even made a business of it. He kidnapped some gay men for ransom, others, he'd just kill them.

He was catching release like they're sports fish? This is ridiculous. Yeah, he would catch them, he would get all the family, hey, 10,000 pesos, or $10,000, the equivalent of $10,000, and I'll give you your family member back. All right, fine. All right, fine. All right, whatever. Here it is.

Can I get... It's Black Friday. Can I get 25% off this family? No, actually, can we get them on Cyber Monday? If you actually deliver them, that'd be great. But as I said, none of those serial killers were investigated as serial killers. And even Al Mataguez was not called a serial killer even after he confessed, despite the fact that he exhibited textbook missionary serial killer behavior.

They just didn't want to see it as a serial killing problem. They just were basically saying, no matter what, they will convict these people of multiple murders. Right? Of course, yeah. They're just not calling them serial killers. They will call them. And not saying, we have a serial killer, we need to investigate this.

There's obviously the same guy that's killed all of these men. We need to try to catch him before he kills again. So there's plenty of serial killers. But they won't say the word serial killer very often. So they're just changing the verbiage. It's like the Vietnam conflict. That's what you do. It looked like a war.

Yeah, it was a war. But it was just an action. Yeah, I mean, according to Suzanne Vargas, what I read in her book, it's not just that they're not calling them serial killers, is that they're not investigating a serial killer. They're not really investigating these murders at all. Not that they never investigate any murders, but if it's someone who's a young indigenous girl, no, they're not going to spend a single fucking second on it. You know what they need in Mexico?

More yarn. Because then you can connect the dots. Oh, because it's a yarn thing. Go into the yarn. Because he's got a hurricane on. He's been saying, honestly, he's been harvesting yarn. I don't even know how he's making it. But he said he's making it.

I think he's making it from his fucking body here. Don't go to his house and use a blanket. No, you don't, unless you want to get all flark and dirty. I don't want to hear the word anymore. That lack of investigation changed with the old lady killer, known in the beginning as El Mata Viejitas, because police believed for years that the killer was a brilliant, pathological, sexually perverted man wearing a wig and makeup to look like a woman. Jerry Brutus.

Yeah. It does happen. It has happened. But the thing is, is they, they were wrong. Yeah. That's just kind of embarrassing. Yeah. They were just incorrect.

Yeah. Now homicides of elderly women have been steadily increasing in Mexico City since the late 90s. But in 2003, the numbers skyrocketed. That year, 17 elderly women were murdered by asphyxiation, with objects ranging from tights and belts to cables and stethoscopes. Very similar to the Boston Strangler, like the idea of using what's available, whatever they're doing. It's impulse murders.

Obviously, it's impulse because these are not somebody who's like, maybe not necessarily scouting some people out. But one thing I will say about abuelitas is that maybe there is some mind of the idea of a lot of these are done for quote unquote practical reasons in terms of like murders for money. And then I wonder if it's a lot to do. Do they think that abuelitas have more cash on hand than they have that type of thing? They're easy victim.

There's somebody that you can physically overpower very easily. Vulnerable. That's that. That was the biggest reason why. And that's what pissed people off the most because they are extremely vulnerable members of society. Women, they're living alone. These are like widows.

And so that's why the investigation came out. And also one of the old ladies killed was the grandmother of a criminologist who worked at the Mexico City Police Department. Nepotism also helps. Yes. I guess that's nepotism. Well, eventually police released an MO saying that the killer dressed as a nurse representing a government program called C. Vallee.

This designation was significant politically because C. Vallee was a contested social security program and the killer had up to a point only killed old women registered with C. Vallee. Hmm. Now, it sounds like it'd be someone who had access to this program. Yeah. Right. It sure as fuck does. Or it sounds like one of those.

In my mind, this goes into like from hell territory where like conspiratorily in my mind, it's like something from the government is killing old women to stop the social programs. Like they're doing it to stop them spending money on the program. Oh, they usually just stop them. They do. Yeah. To be fair. Yeah.

They were just going to stop. Now, as the official story goes, Juana Baraza, who is known throughout Mexico as the old lady killer, she was finally arrested after she was seen fleeing a crime scene in which an 82-year-old woman named Ana Maria Reyes had been strangled with a stethoscope. Reyes owned the building and a renter said that he'd come home to find his landlady strangled and dead on the floor with blood pouring out of her nose. The renter allegedly said that he saw Baraza walking out of Ana Maria Reyes' apartment and when he called for help, Baraza took off running and was quickly arrested by two nearby

cops. And this is where you turn it and you say, oh, you needed help, and then you look at the corpse. She was like, oh my God. She shot herself. She shot herself. Save this woman. Do you see PR on her?

We're like, save this woman, moving her legs in and out to get the oxygen back in her lungs. Fake it till you make it. The next day, authorities closed the books on El Mataviejitas, now La Mataviejitas, and the investigation ended forever. You know that that was a big day when they went up to the whiteboard and went, nah, and everyone's like, oh, shit, she's got 10. This announcement, however, caught the attention of the Mexican public in ways beyond simple, true crime curiosity.

I mean, this is the whole package. Yeah. This is the whole package. As I said, in addition to being a serial killer, Juana Baraza was also a lucha libre wrestler who performed under the name La Dama del Salicio, or the Lady of Silence. And that just gave this story the extra fucking oomph that it needed. Hold on. Absolutely.

People were more interested in this. God damn it. Because... I think the Lady of Silence has been here. You're talking about farts. Farts. This is a fart. This is an SBB drink.

Is what you've done. Flark. I hate... I don't like what the Guardians of the Galaxy game is doing to him. It's doing to his sense of humor. It's degrading it. Now, La Dama del Salicio was a minor figure in the lucha libre scene, to be sure. She was never big enough to make it to any televised matches.

But the fact that she was a ruda was highly significant to the public. Because you got the picture of her too, right? Like the picture of her in full regalia is awesome. She's... What? Dude. Yeah. Basically, the ruda is the Mexican equivalent of the heel.

A wrestler who ignores the rules and proper technique specifically because they're the villains. Yeah, they're mean. But they use proper technique as well. I know. But it's all a part of it. Not in lucha libre. Lucha libre.

Very exciting. Yeah. If you haven't watched lucha, watch lucha. No, I got to watch a bunch of lucha last night. You could pull off the lucha. You got to wear the mask. I can't do the tumbling. Yes, that's the hard part.

You got the ruda on one side, the other side, you have El Technico, the face. So named because they are highly trained and they always follow the rules. Strong family bonds. That's what I saw. That's what I said. El Technico is strong family bonds. He's there for the fans and the glory of wrestling and glory of wrestling alone. Lucha libre, which means free fighting.

I love it. This being lucha libre, Barraza's wrestling outfit was suitably ostentatious. She wore a bright pink suit similar to a Power Ranger outfit with silver details on the legs and shoulders, pink and silver knee-high boots and this fucking awesome pink and silver butterfly mask. I love it. There's something about the pink and silver butterfly mask being on a victim, on being on a villain.

It's such a fun idea. It's like an idea of like a Technicolor villain. Yeah, she looked both terrifying and ridiculous. She's tall. I mean, it's fucking perfect for lucha libre. That's wrestling. And she was tall. I mean, especially for a Mexican woman, she was five foot nine and she had an athletic

masculine physique. Oh, yes. She was strong. But she was named the Lady of Silence because she said it reflected her truly shy nature. Oh, interesting. That's the thing with being a good professional wrestler. It does have to be an extension of yourself to some degree. If you are truly the truly good ones, you and your style match your character.

In some ways, yes. However, Juana Barraza's wrestling background actually worked against her. Juana's status as a ruda was deemed by some in the Mexican media and some Mexican criminologists as evidence that she lacked morality. Dude, this is when this is when fandom goes too far. This is when this idea. She's a villain. She's a villain.

Sometimes I'd say in Emma Stone's O Serial Rapist was like, well, look what she did to those Dalmatians. Oh, I see. Look what she did to those Dalmatians. I still don't think that would be applicable, even given Corella's horrible record with dogs. I mean, they made her like a girl boss. So to some degree, though, you know, actions become reality and you look at some heels.

They do things. You look at the Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels feud of the late 90s, where Shawn Michaels like put the Canadian flag in his nose and he's like butt-flossed with it. People are about to riot because of that shit. So there is a truth to it also. What do you mean there's a truth to it? It's not real. No, people were legitimately upset with Shawn Michaels.

They would have killed him if he would have gone into the crowd at Canada. But Shawn Michaels, I mean, in a Canadian way, was just a normal man, you'd assume. Normally he's just a man. He's a wrestler. He was very mean in real life. But I just mean in real life, he wasn't the heartbreak kid. He was just a man. He was.

I just mean. All wrestlers are just guys. They're not actually villains and superheroes. Rick Flair lived the gimmick. This woman obviously lived the gimmick. No, she won't. Yes. She's a murderer.

You're correct. But not because. Or is she? We've lost him. Just saying. Fiction is not crazier than reality. True. And furthermore, those same media figures and criminologists said that Juana Baraza's

masculine physique was quote, proof of her innate criminality. What? Like they were using some form of fucking muscular phrenology in the year 2006. 2006. Remember that? All of this happens in 2006. One year before the smartphone. Yes.

No. But these spurious claims bring up an interesting question. While Juana Baraza is seen in Mexico as the definitive old lady killer, no question about it. The case overall, looked at with fresh eyes, raises some interesting questions. Questions. Now I've never had any doubt whatsoever in the guilt of any serial killer we've ever covered these last 11 some odd years.

Wow. Really? Yep. Sometimes Henry Lucas actually now, you wonder, but you know, we'll get back. We'll talk about that in the future. I think Ed Gein, you also sort of had a... Ed Gein is a killer. He just did.

He just was more creative. Yeah. Yeah. Ed Gein is a killer. I mean, I don't believe all of like Pee Wee Gaskins claims. No. He didn't have sex with that baby in the car. Oh, God.

Yeah. But what I mean is... I don't know why he bragged about it. Well, maybe he did it then. I mean, more what I mean is, I have never believed a serial killer when he said, I was framed. I never killed anyone. Because there's so many books, right, Charles Manson and his own words.

Would you honestly... I still feel like I had a lot of truth in it. It did. But again... Final truth. It's about, let's look at the gestalt, let's look at the whole thing. Let's look at all of... Let's kind of see how it all lines up.

All right. And that's the thing. After looking at all of the information available on the Juana Baraza case, it's quite possible that while she definitely killed one old lady, she may have been just the patsy the Mexican authorities needed to close the book on the Matavilla hit this killings. And I want to stipulate this for our Mexican listeners or anybody who's aware of this case. They were probably screaming like, cheese, guilty! Right?

I feel like it's one of those cases. She killed one, I guess. Yeah. She definitely killed somebody. And I feel like... Yeah. Again, what we know... What we do, we know about the truth, right?

You have one person's perspective on one side. You got one person's perspective on the other side. You got Juana Baraza's perspective. You got the police's perspective. Everybody... It's a senseless reality. So I do believe that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle that we don't know what it is.

But before you start screaming, she's guilty, she's guilty, we're going to go through some of this stuff. This is our opinion here about whether or not she's innocent. And we're waiting here like newborns being thrown into the pool. Fantastic. Which can swim and their lungs actually close up, their throat closes up so they can actually breathe under water for a little while like fish. You're a monster.

That's true. You're a fucking monster. You sound like an ogre when you talk about how cow kids can breathe in the river. All right. Well, interesting. So we'll live in the gray. We'll live in the perineum. Well, just recently, in 2019, Juana Baraza allegedly gave a long extensive interview

detailing her life to an anonymous author who published the transcript in a low-profile, online-only book that seems to have been entirely ignored by the Mexican media. Sure. Now, we've had plenty of so-called tell-all books from serial killers claiming that they were set up by the police, you know, Robert Pickton even released a fucking book claiming his innocence in the face of mountains of forensic evidence and eyewitness reports. But he also was like a rambling moron and his book reads as such. Yeah.

Well, the difference here is that the evidence linking Juana Baraza to the old lady killings is suspect, especially when it's coupled with various holes in the case that is put forth by Mexican authorities. To be fair, Juana's narrative also has a fair amount of holes. But when you look at all the information available, the Mexican authorities had a stronger motive to pin the murders on Juana than Juana had to commit the murders. And Marcus does a good job. Later on, Dogmeat's going to walk us through kind of like, what appears to be sus and what

doesn't. And I think you do a good job of weaving this idea that like who knows, we're just asking questions. Yeah. I mean, and that is if the transcript we used is true. Seeing as how we don't know much about this book, we can't say with a hundred percent certainty that it is the truth. And it might just be an extremely elaborate hoax perpetrated by an anonymous internet

troll. Who knows? We should do an episode on it. We really should. But this book, published only in Spanish, was translated by my wife and co-host on No Dogs in Space, Carolina Hidalgo. Nice. Yeah.

Nice plug. Yeah, she's going to kiss you tonight. Yeah. She's going to plug. She's going to kiss tonight. And she says that after watching interviews with Juana Baraza, the cadence and language used in the transcript is remarkably similar to how Juana talks on camera. So if this is a forgery, it is an exceedingly well done forgery.

Sure. And Carolina also wanted me to make sure and tell everyone that she could not corroborate any of the claims made in the book at all. Because even looking in Spanish, like, you know, she's fluent in Spanish. She looked for as many sources as she could find on the Juana Baraza case. There's really not that much. No, there isn't. I was like, I was digging in.

Even in Spanish, there's not that much. There really isn't. You can try to also find more information on whether or not it was a question as to whether or not it was a hoax or whether or not she was a patsy. And there is really none, like, because no one is taking. It seems that with this came out, no one took it seriously, especially in Mexico. But I don't know if it's because we don't want to get rid of this conviction, like we don't want to get rid of the old lady killer, like we we wrapped it up and we don't want

to open up these cases again, or is it because Juana Baraza is a notorious fucking career criminal and nobody wants to agree with them, right? So I don't know. Like, it's this hazy world. I mean, I don't know. All I know is these women, you get past 80, 90. They just start dying. And it's like, I thought we put this bitch in prison.

The thing is that even if the book happens to be a hoax of some kind, it's still a hell of a story that lines up with what we know about Juana's life. And if it turns out that this is Juana's words and Juana is lying about the murders, it still fills out some details on what is absolutely a tragic but fascinating life. Seriously, someone needs to make the story of Juana Baraza. I know that there has been so much. But like, the story of her, Juana Baraza, like, this is an Oscar movie. Yeah.

Like, this is an Oscar movie. Well, what a beautiful superstar are they going to make look like a normal- Samaic. Just fucking load her up. That's the problem. It's heavy. Like, are you going to cast Juana Baraza? No.

That's the thing. Additionally, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the investigation even outside of this book. So in fact, the inconsistencies that I'm going to go through later were barely mentioned in the book. And I will also say the traditional media sources here, it's a huge fucking mess. Every source that I read, the sources can't even agree on how many murders there were. They can't even agree on how many convictions Juana Baraza had.

Is it 10? Is it 16? I don't know. Wait, isn't there a court record that says the number? It's all over the place. It's all over the place. But what I like is... Everything's all over the place.

We're getting right into this topic for last podcast on the left because, number one, the central character is just so compelling. Like Juana Baraza is such an interesting person, not like, let's see, let's see what we dig up. All right. Yeah, let's get into the life story of Juana Baraza as told by what we're reasonably sure is Juana herself in the book, Ne de Sin la Mata Viejitas, la verdadera historia de Juana Baraza Sanperio.

Translated? They call me the old lady killer. The true history of Juana Baraza. My name's Juana, all right? I'm sick and tired of being blamed for all this carnage. You're acting like you want to talk to somebody. You talk to the Reaper. That's who's doing all these murders.

Yeah, it definitely doesn't seem like it would have been written by a gal there, but interesting. Now one thing to say about Juana Baraza right up top is that she is terrible with dates, numbers, and ages to the point where she doesn't even seem to have a full grasp on when she herself was born. Like an age is just a number. It's all about how you feel. Yeah, but it's a crucial number to understand when you're probably going to die. There are some dates that are really important there are.

I mean Juana was completely and totally uneducated. She couldn't read. She couldn't write anything beyond her own name. And as a result, the narrative can be a little modeled here. Juana Baraza had an absolutely awful childhood, one of 32 children sired by a man named Trinidad in the state of Hidalgo in Mexico. Yeah, I think if your name is Trinidad, you have to legally change it if you don't have at least 15 children.

Oh my, 32 freaking kids with one woman? It's easy. No, no, no. With many, many, many women. No, no. He was truck driver. Oh, he was a truck driver. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Wow. Well, Juana never actually met her biological father, but it's quite possible that he would have been better than her mother, Husta. Husta was a teenage sex worker who had Juana when she was 18, her second child. And eventually the small family moved in with a married man named Refugio Sanperio. That's terrible. Yeah. I mean, that's a hard conversation to broach with your wife.

You're like, honey. Listen, okay. We're just going to cut to the chase here, right? It's Wednesday. I'm busy. This is a prostitute that I haven't had a child with. She's moving into this good game. She's going to move in here.

All right. I know this. We're just going to do that. We're just going to kick this can to next week. We can talk about, we can circle back to this talk about this. I'm just going to go to the kitchen and sharpen the knives for it. Well, Refugio though, he was one of the few people to show Juana tenderness in her childhood. From what Juana said, Refugio was actually a pretty good dude, at least to her.

Okay. And then, on the other hand, was a psychopathic, physically abusive alcoholic, beating Juana. She would beat Juana until Juana was, in her words, bathing in blood. Jesus. She kept them so poor that Juana had to rummage through dumpsters for rotten food to feed her and her siblings. She reminds me a lot of Henry Lee Lucas's mom and this style of like, that's just where Juana Barraza, to me, the idea of her becoming a serial killer in many ways, like, that doesn't

make sense, but like, she has the seeds for it, in terms of the amount of... You're sounding an awful lot like the people who pinned the crime on her later. I'm just saying, she received a lot of brutal abuse in Little Kids. It might not necessarily lead to the most stable lifestyle, also, if you have the ability to call your parents in New Jersey, stop stealing all the food from the dumpster behind Trader Joe's. Leave it to the people that need it, the Freegans, the Freegans, leave it to the people that need it.

Freegans ended in 2008. I saw it. There was one article in Nixon and no one has talked about us. I saw a meme about how we waste all the food and then the Freegans are like, I eat the food. Well, by far, the most traumatic of Juana's childhood experiences came when Husta, just like Charles Manson's mother, sold Juana for the paltry sum of three beers to a man named Jose when Juana was just 11 years old.

That's not a paltry sum. No. That is not a sum. No, this is like, this is really fucked up. She just like gave her to this, like, dude. Oh my God. Yeah, she said, well, she said, she said, she told, she said, you know, you can just take her.

I don't want her. She's annoying. I don't like her. Just take her. Oh, but before you go, can I get a couple of make-a-lops? And then, you know, that's actually, that is exactly what it was. She was like, yeah, you give me those, you buy me three beers and you can have her. Oh my God.

Yeah. And then he went home with her and then everyone was like, well, who's this girl? And he's like, that's my, that's mine. How old was she? 11. 11. Jesus. Now, Jose was actually the older brother of one of Juana's friends.

So Juana thought that she was just going over to sleep over at their house and then return home like normal. Instead, she was taken to Jose's room, beaten, tied to a bed and raped repeatedly. Juana stayed tied up in that room for a week before Jose's mother discovered her and bladdered her son with a frying pan. Yeah. Oh my God. But not because it was wrong.

She bladdered him with a frying pan because she was afraid they would get in trouble. But Jose said, relax. Mother gave her to me. She gave her to me. She gave her to me. She's ours now. I got the receipt. I don't even think he did have a receipt.

No. And with that, the mother accepted it. And Juana is basically a household slave while Jose continued using her as a sex slave that went on for more than a year. Jesus. I feel like this also points towards- Some sorts to say four years, but Juana herself said it was a year. Yeah.

And I also feel that this is a little bit of the, how do you put this, patriarchal pressure, the idea of the Jose kind of ran that house just because he was the oldest male son. And it seems that the mom sort of lived in deference to him and then they just decided- Aren't they a little more matriarchal over there? I don't know. They're not the- Well, whatever. I mean, it's-

It's a little more complicated than that, especially in that household. It's all fucked. It's so bad. Because in that household, there was a father in the household, and the father did actually try to stand up for Juana and say like, this isn't right, but the son beat the shit out of him. Wow. And the father was just sort of, you know, had to take it.

He's like, okay, well, that's the way things go, I guess. But no, it's a very patriarchal, machismo type of society, very much so. Dad should have come home with a lead pipe, and he should have said no. Kyle, you're just making this into more Luchin-Libre-y, whatever the plot is. Yeah. Oh, damn. That's bad. But Juana's stepfather, Refugio, hadn't forgotten that Juana existed.

He never believed, like, because Husta said like, ah, she just ran off with some guy, forget about her. She's never come back. Well, she's 11. Yeah, she just ran off. He had a romantic interlude at 11 years old. Yeah. And then Juana gave birth to her first child at the age of 12.

Oh, my God. But just before Christmas, a neighbor tipped off Juana's aunt and uncle as to where she was being held. So they found her niece and helped her and the baby escape while her slavers were out of the house. Juana's stepfather then brought her home, and when her mother Husta began berating her and threatened to beat her as soon as she walked in the door, Refugio hit Husta instead and came close to smashing in Husta's skull with a rock.

And from that day on, Husta never bothered Juana ever again. This is the worst season of growing pains. Yeah. When this happened, I hated season six. It really got brutal. Yeah. Meanwhile, Juana began selling homemade Jell-O cups at a jelly stand to make money. Then got married at 16 to a young man who eventually became yet another abuse of alcohol.

That's sad. But especially for a jelly salesperson. Yeah. Everyone loves jelly. And then there was another one. Its jelly is in, it's not like a spread jelly, it's like Jell-O cups. Yeah. Little Jell-O cups, yeah.

And then after that guy, there was another one. And then there was another one. But on the third one, Juana finally snapped when she told this last boyfriend she was leaving, he responded by slapping Juana's daughter and filled with an uncontrollable rage, Juana grabbed a metal chair and beat her boyfriend with it like she was fucking Mick Foley, splitting his head open and knocking out two teeth. Jesus Christ. All right.

Then jumping right into it. Yeah. Well, more like she was the rock and the guy was Mick Foley. Yeah. And when the chair was finally taken from her, she recalled saying, El valiente viva hasta que el cobarde quiere. Translated it means the oppressor will stay in power until the oppressed revolt. Whoa.

Do you want a jelly cup? Thank you. Very nice. That's cool. Well, after that, she kept selling jelly, but she also added gorditas and quesadillas. Yeah. Then when she was 18, her mother- She's just turned 18, by the way. This is amazing.

This is her. She's in the Cordita business. I don't think that it's not about her being an entrepreneur because it was very difficult for her. She was selling quesadillas inside of the room. There isn't an entrepreneur. But I'm just saying, all of this happened in chiddles. She's had a lot of life.

Yes. At the time she was 18. Oh my goodness. Brutal. And when she was 18, her mother died of cirrhosis at the age of 36. How much was she drinking for cirrhosis at 36? All day, every day, and being a tiny, little woman. I guess.

And from what Wana said, she felt nothing concerning her mother's death. Definitely not. Wana, however, did not mean Wana was devoid of passion. Even before her mother's passing, Wana had discovered the joy of wrestling, or wrestling. Or as it's called in Mexico, lucha libre. This is where the Oscar music starts coming in. You could see her dealing with all these abusive boyfriends, being a slave to a family, coming out of it.

And then all of a sudden, seeing a luchador mask, or seeing it in a window and being like okay, and then all of a sudden going, and then learning to tumble, and having some other woman being like, we will beat the men together, will we not? Lady de Salancio? And she's just like, oh, see, see, see, and then they do the lord of the rings, like arm hold, and they hold each other's forearms together. Lightning crashes, I love it, all right, cool. If I get anything wrong here, in this short explanation of lucha libre, please be kind.

I mean, lucha libre, it's just as complicated as American wrestling, and Ben, I would imagine even you would have a hard time explaining American wrestling to someone who knew nothing about it. Yeah, theater nerds who like to work out, who also love their bodies. But here, all of the lucha libre, I was watching from tumbling, like jumping, it's really fun. Yeah, it's awesome. And big time characters, in America, you got people like, again, the four mentioned,

we'll just stick with Shawn Michaels. It's a boring name, and lucha everything is super exciting. Yeah, yeah. Now, lucha libre, rules-wise, is pretty similar to American wrestling, makes sense because lucha libre has its roots in Texas, and really the biggest difference in rules that I can see is that in lucha libre, they usually do a best two out of three pinfall situation instead of just the one that we have here in America. As far as style goes, what makes lucha libre truly its own thing is the famous luchador

masks. Yeah, cool. The masks are a huge deal in lucha libre to the point where the biggest dishonor a luchador can endure is to be unmasked in the ring. Don't they have specific unmasking like, matches? They got full mask for mask matches. Yeah, really, they'll give somebody else their masks. They're thinking a new mask?

Well, usually they don't. Like when psychosis lost it, you lose it, and then you're shamed forever. And it was a huge deal with psychosis, I believe it was psychosis because it was a large family line, and his grandfather had the mask, and his father had the mask, and they were like, yeah, they got really mad at him. Actually it usually ends their career. Yeah, it's like serious big deal. Serious big deal.

Yeah, some are so serious about keeping their identities, they attend formal occasions fully masked. They'll go to a wedding with their fucking mask on. That's awesome. Dude, they love it. Yeah, they'll wear their masks when traveling. They'll fuck it like, it is serious, serious business. As I said, the two roles in Lucha Libre are Technico and Ruda, face and heel.

And when Juana Barraza stepped into the ring, she was most definitely Ruda. Yeah, but you could use like, yes, yeah, school me, yeah. You know, heel sounds a little bit more fun than being a face. I think so too. But the reason why she was a Ruda was because she liked wrestlers who lacked proper schooling over those who followed all the rules. Soon leads to serial murder, you'll find. I guess.

Yep, that's the only way. Okay. Back when Juana Barraza was first getting into the scene though, she was just a fan. Eventually, she started hanging out with Luchadors, and they agreed to start training Juana when she was just 17 years old. Juana would train every Monday and Wednesday, and in between, she'd go to matches to learn more about the scene. It took five full years of training for Juana to be ready to actually fight.

And when she was 22, she participated in her first lucha as La Estralita, or Little Star. Ooh, yeah. That's cool. That's a cool name. It's cool. A Luchadors first match, however, is usually just a hazing. Juana's opponent beat the living shit out of her without mercy, and Juana came out of her first lucha with an injured arm and a broken rib.

They call it a shoot. Is that what that is? Do they do that in American wrestling too? Yeah, sometimes when they just, like, get mad at each other and they beat the hell out of each other. Jesus Christ. That happens. But Juana also came out with 50 pesos.

Yep. Man, that's what you do for the love of money, man. Yep. Those 50 pesos meant that she could pay for diapers and milk with money left to spare. And the more she fought, the more she got paid. And she could use her manos. No, no, no. She moved up to 250 pesos, then 400, then 800 at her height.

Juana was getting 1,000 pesos per fight. Sometimes fighting two or three times a night. Once she was established, Juana debuted the character she's still known for today, la dama del salencio, or the lady of silence. That's cool, though. I do like it. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And then she also doesn't have to work on her mic skills.

None at all. She could just be intimidating. Yeah. She could go with a Jimmy Hart or a Paul Bearer. She might need a mouthpiece. Yeah, I'll be there. That's okay. Now, despite her fearsome reputation, Juana said that on the first night she fought

as this new character, she was so nervous she almost wet her pants. And then she'd have to kill four women. Oh, no. Mostly she was nervous about getting up on the ropes because she was afraid of heights. Yeah, dude, I would not be able to handle any of that shit. No, it's so scary. Especially those cold cage matches. Yo, dude, it's nuts.

Those are crazy. It is. But eventually, Juana came to love the adrenaline rush of being in the ring as this character. And even though she was a ruta, she was a popular ruta. While the other rudas would sometimes get pelted with full beers, Ladama del Silencio was a draw and popular with kids who came to her matches. I will say, so watching a bunch of lucha, it's really fun. But what's really cool about the rudas, especially the rudas, it seems to be like the inclusivity

of all the types of beefy women they got. Oh, yeah. You got the hot ones. You got hot luchadoras. The one where I saw one where they were doing like a twerking competition. It was hot. They got nice big butts. They were sexy.

But then every once in a while, you got yourself an old-fashioned bruiser. Is it Martha Villalobo? Martha Villalobo. Skoo, man. She's awesome. She's nuts. She's like a punk woman. She's like, she's got a punk aesthetic kind of thing.

Like a Luna Vashon type, perhaps. You don't want to run up on this woman in any way, shape, or form. This is the type of woman that fucking like, she's a chew. If we're talking Lady Rastley. It looks like King Koopa. Yeah, that's cool. Watch the ladies' war game match from 2021. It was very impressive.

War games. Check out that female match. Yeah, Shariah. Yeah, they're all in there flipping, too. It was amazing. Martha Villalobos can still like do all the tumbling and shit. She's very athletic. It's insane what they do.

I'm horrified of heights. Well, since Rutas often employ illegal and dangerous moves as a matter of course, Juana injured her spine during a match when she was 35. And never again entered the ring as a competitor. Damn, well, she had a hell of a long career then. She did. So about 15, 16 years. Yeah, she was really established part of the lucha world.

Wow, yeah. Well, I mean, she was a small time. She was a part of the lucha world. Professional amateur kind of. Yeah, professional amateur, like not quite. She's not doing backyard wrestling, but she's not on TV either. Right. Yeah, she's just a middle class performer.

Yeah. Yeah. She seems to have that still, like people that can just do, can just job it. Yeah. Hopefully. More and more, hopefully. Well, after she was a wrestler, she became a small time promoter, sometimes making as much as 20,000 pesos on her best nights.

She said she actually paid off her house using promotion money. So you make more money as a producer than as an actor? Well, then why is she going to go on and kill all these old women? I'll get into it. We'll see. Now, Juana Baraza's status as a fairly popular local luchador is not in question. But it is, however, odd that none of her fellow luchadors ever went on record to either defend or condemn Juana Baraza, or at least we weren't able to find any mention of luchadors talking

about Juana Baraza online. The wall of silence. It might just be about distancing the sport from her story and the unlike in America. In America, we were talking about this the other day, we were hammered at a bar and we watched like on ESPN, they asked like these athletes, these really intense political questions that they had no reason to answer them. They don't. They were just like, he's just finished the game.

They literally asked one of the most hot button topics. And he's just like, don't play sport. They're just trying to play sports, right? He doesn't know. He doesn't fucking know. So it feels like it's maybe there. It's a little debt. Maybe it's there was much more separation.

Also, they're like, they just let the sport be the sport. They want to keep the cave up. Yeah. Does their character know anything about this woman? No. Shut the fuck up. Because these promoters, they really was super, super real. Side stories, LPOTL and gmail.com.

If you know the answer, I think that if you are a person that does believe that, like, why the lucha would, why the lucha world would distance themselves from Juana Baraza. They also just kind of move on. I mean, I would imagine like wrestlers talked about Benoit, right? They kind of did until they realized what happened, and then they stopped. I remember that. Because they had a memorial. There was a memorial first.

And halfway through, so afterwards, the memorial, half on a Monday night, we're all halfway through. It comes through the old internet as we had it back then, they'd be like, it looks like you may have killed the family. And then like, you can tell like the wrestlers like, what happened? What? And like, they kind of continued it, but it was a little bit more like muted. A little more muted.

Yes. And then he was officially scrubbed forever. Now, from what police believe, about six years after her in the ring luchadora career ended, Juana Baraza began murdering old ladies in Mexico City, using them as a misguided outlet for the rage she still felt towards her abusive mother. Even though Juana was by then actually much older than her mother was when she died. Weird. Her mother died at 36.

So she's 41. Juana Baraza started, yeah, killing at 41, which is also really fucking weird. It is really weird, but unless, the one thing I, the way I would frame my opinion on this is that if she did start killing at 41, first of all, it shows you life is an end of form. That's right. I saw that. And then also, it shows you that maybe. I mean, it does for other people.

Yes. Apparently. If they, if Soros deliver, if you've been drinking a bottle of vodka every day. And she kills you. 15 years old. I also think there probably is a practical edge to her murder. I think that it's not, I think that's why we're, well, this is where you and I differ a little bit where I do believe that there was a, I kill people and take their money.

My, what is, my livelihood is gone. I am now, I used to be on stage. I used to be in front of screaming crowds. I'm here like, I used to be this character. I was the lady of silence. And then now, as you'll see, she had to go back to manual labor, do various things. And that there's a bitterness there that might lead to her having more aggression. And then there's more snaps and more like violence.

I don't think anyone who has failed at the entertainment industry has bitterness. I wouldn't imagine. I couldn't even fathom someone who was a star at one point. Just remotely. Take it away from them. And then all of a sudden they're fine. Always fine. Fine.

Now these murders are not quite as brutal as you'd expect if the motive was indeed pure rage. Rage murders are usually quite messy, but the old lady killings in question were all done by simple strangulation using household objects as makeshift garats. The theory that the cops worked with was that the perpetrator began killing in fits and starts in 1998, but they ramped up in 2003. They said that the killer, posed as a nurse or a social worker, complete with identification and paperwork used to gain the trust of these old ladies.

That's the boss. Yeah. Okay. Then once the killer was inside, they would strangle the old ladies to death with whatever nearby household objects seemed to be up to the task. Now the police, working off that weird reverse misogyny we talked about with Carla Hamulca, they became convinced that there was no way a woman could be the killer here. Instead, they maintained that it had to be a homosexual man dressed like a woman.

You know, why did they think it had to be a gay dude? Because they would dress up like a woman to go kill elderly women? I think that they believed that a woman would never murder many, many old people. Why would a gay man do it? Because he had to be a gay man in order to dress as a woman. To dress like a woman, yeah. Okay. Again, are we...

This is 2003. 2003. All right. Got it. Now the police were so convinced on this theory that on multiple occasions, they conducted ham-fisted roundups of transgender sex workers just to see what they could see. But of course they never came up with anything. All right.

You want to strangle me? Come on. You want to strangle me? I don't actually. I'm doing just fine here on the street. I'm actually just going to hang out with this John here. What if we put a babushka on this mannequin? Do you want to attack this mannequin?

No. Now by 2006, when Juana Baraza was arrested, so many people had reported seeing the perpetrator running from murder scenes that 64 sketches of El Mataviojitas had been created. That's more than there are fucking murders. You could make a flipbook out of it and actually have her look like she's running away from a crime scene. That's interesting. But according to author Susana Vargas, criminality in Mexico is often connected to lower classes

and indigenous people, i.e. those with darker skin. So all the police sketches of El Mataviojitas were given darker skin even if the person didn't describe the suspect as such. Yeah. You know, you just can't let someone get in there with the charcoal. No, you can't improv it. You got to do what they say if you're the artist. Now, eventually, the authorities brought in French police officers to give a week-long

course to possibly help with the capture of El Mataviojitas. First, you go to the open market and you spend your day, you squeeze the bread, you see what is the most firm and that's how you know what is good for the fresh house. What is this? We're trying to catch a killer. No, no. It's all about the process. All right.

Have a cigarette, then you go to the Louvre, where you see. We don't have the Louvre here. I do not know what to tell you, my friends. When do we catch the killer, dude? Sunday. Three weeks from now. Give me the hairs and opening a mask if you want. Thanks, French guy.

Well, partly, this course talked about a French earth a kitten personator named Terry Paulin. Have you mean Terry? Terry, he's such a fucking bitch. Yeah, is he like a cat woman almost? He murdered 21 elderly women before he was 25 years old. Then for that, we arrested him, but then we gave him a medal. Isn't that something? For simply the F.R.T. putting.

Geez. Paulin was actually far more brutal than El Mataviojitas, suffocating some old ladies with plastic bags, beating some old ladies to death, and in one case, forcing an old lady to drink Drano. Oh, God. In other words, this is a man who killed out of rage. That's what a rage killing looks like. True.

But also we'll pause it. There is a difference between the way men kill and the way women kill, and I can see how a rage killing. Are you about to do like a 1980s bit about driving a man who killed like this? Yeah, so. You know, it's this idea that I feel that even a strangulation or an impulse driven strangulation could still be a rage killing to lady. But I don't even know where to strangle her.

Even if it was one of Barraza, which I'm still a completely of course, totally open to a being. It's I don't think there's any impulse kills here. I think she went to these places specifically to murder. Yes. Take their money. Take their shit. Yeah.

I don't think there was any impulse here like it was definitely premeditated. All right. But it's the things that the Mexican serial killers, when they heard about Terry Paulin, all they heard was cross dresser, gay and old ladies. So despite instructions from French police to listen to eyewitness suspects who all said it's definitely a woman murdering these old ladies, authorities kept operating under the gay cross dresser theory. Sure.

Why not? Because it's wrong. It's wrong. Yeah. That's a key. Why not? I would think. But okay.

Meanwhile, Juana Barraza was not in any way acting like someone who'd killed 47 women over the course of three years. So just a few weeks before Juana Barraza was arrested, she gave a ringside television interview during a national lucha libre broadcast. She was there as a fan. Okay. Now the fact that none of the witnesses who supposedly saw the killer recognized Juana Barraza, that doesn't mean necessarily that she didn't do it because it's possible that

none of those witnesses just happened to be watching TVS Tech of that night. That's for their old ladies. They're probably not watching wrestling. No, I mean the witnesses who saw her running from the scene because Juana Barraza, whoever killed these old ladies, never, ever left 11. But it's interesting that Juana Barraza had no interest in keeping a low profile in the middle of the first ever serial killer investigation in Mexican history. Instead, she played to the cameras and told the interviewer that she was Ruda del Corazon

or Ruda to the Core. But what's more Ruda than killing 40 old women? Well, yeah, she's healed to the core. Again, this is where I'll come in a little bit of devil's advocate, look at somebody like Jack Unterweger. I know the arrogance is definitely there. There's an arrogance that could possibly, like again, I don't even know. I have no stake.

I got no skin in this game. She's guilty or not. No, I don't have skin in it. Yeah. But Juana very well could be doing very traditional serial killer behavior of like hiding plain sight. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Loving the game, loving the, I get to be on TV and I get to kill.

Absolutely. There's definitely that aspect of it. It sounds like. But still, you know, but just a few weeks later, Juana Barrasa was indeed arrested for the murder of an old lady that she definitely absolutely without a doubt killed. And she was subsequently charged with all of the old lady murders, but things might not have gone down the way authorities said they did. As the official story goes, on January 25th, 2005, Juana Barrasa at the age of 48 entered

the home of an 80 year old woman named Anna Maria Reyes under the guise of asking for a glass of water. Once inside the home, Barrasa allegedly punched the old woman in the face, grabbed a stethoscope from a nearby table and used it to strangle Reyes. She then walked out with a box of coins and some earrings, got spotted by the victim's renter and was subsequently arrested. Now according to, they call me the old lady killer, which again might be suspect, Juana had an entirely different story to tell, even though she does admit fully that she did

kill this old lady. Now she though, but this point, she had started a business. So she was really, she was doing house cleaning, she was doing house cleaning, laundry and like kind of doing stuff like that, right? I didn't ask you to clean up that much. But I'm just saying, she had access to old people's homes, right? Like she went in and like that's kind of what she did for a while and she was dealing with.

I'm going to go on and like, I think anybody who's clean someone's house for a living has met what I'd call an art, the Jungian archetype, the old bitch and how like she can say a bunch of mean shit to you as you're cleaning, right? I just picked up this cup of coffee, it seems like there's a coffee ring under it. Oh, you cleaned that one up, I just put it over here, oh, just picked it up again, there's another coffee ring under it. I'm just saying you can run into a lot of the trademark old bitches when you are cleaning homes professional.

I believe that that's true, I'm sure of it, still can't kill them. I'm not saying they should be murdered. Well by this time in her life, Wana was no longer making the money she once was with Lucha Libre and was making ends meet by selling quesadillas, cleaning houses and doing laundry, as Henry said. But from what Wana later claimed, she actually knew the victim in question quite well because she'd been doing her laundry for two years, two days a week. It's a rough gig.

It is. Apparently Anna Maria Reyes was sometimes mean tempered and moody, but usually nice enough. Yeah, but when you've been watching some old woman's fucking old stank ass fucking panties every two weeks and then she comes in and she's like, you need to brown out, you need to brown out this week, you need to fucking flip out. Thanks for the new pair of clean undies, hold on, I got something else for you to watch. There's more SPD.

Here you go. Here's a new pair of dirty undies for you. This is ridiculous what this woman is doing, but then of course she's the victim, she's the victim. So on the day in question, Wana wasn't super jazzed about going to work, but she was broke and needed the money. In addition, Anna Maria Reyes was also in a particularly sour mood. While doing the laundry, Wana heard Anna Maria having an argument on the phone in the other

room, saying things like, do you think I'm a millionaire? Like I made of money? You think I made of money? You never want to hear when you're a freelancer and you hear the person who's supposed to give you money, say that to somebody else, you think I made of money? You made of money? That's how you know you're not getting paid. Yeah.

I mean, in other words, Anna Maria was a little touchy about financial dealings on that particular day. And once the day was done, Wana asked to get paid for both that day's work and the week before, but the woman asked Wana to wait on the payment and asked quite nastily as well. An argument ensued, but Wana finally gave up and turned around to leave. It's at that moment that Wana claimed that Anna Reyes punched her hard in the back, or at least as hard as an old lady can punch. I guess.

Sure, sure, sure. Don't mess with the elderly, man. They're hidden, hidden strength. The only person I've seen somebody slap somebody else on the back to try to start a fight was Holden McNeely in Brothers when we were doing a murderfish show in the middle of it. John Moreno was dressed as a giant, wrapping baby, baby lawn, and they got into a fight and Holden went, you're a fucky, and he slapped him on the back. He did.

On stage. No, no. This is backstage. She was a huge fight. Wow, between those two. Yeah. What a fight that must have been. Big, wrapping baby, huh?

Did he have a bonnet on? Sucking on my motherfucking mama's titties, wha, wha, wha, wha, that was the bit. That's a great bit. I'm sure it works, yeah. Back to Wana. It did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, Wana, even though she claims to not be violent, she had a history of flying off

the handle. Besides the aforementioned metal chair incident, years before all this, Wana had gotten into trouble for punching a cop in the face. Oh, so did Jaja Gabor, and people loved it. Yes. This is after the cop had grabbed her son by the ear because the kid ran through a turnstile at the train station. He was just being a kid.

Wana figured that the cop overreacted, so she punched her in the face, and this time was no different. After the old lady punched her, Wana remembered saying, quote, no one hits me, brother. Oh, my God, she activated her wrestling mode. That's what Buzz Lightyear, she hit the button on the back. Dude. You're about to cross the threshold of pain you've never even imagined. I'm about to spike your body off the fucking floor.

Actually, she said that she had grabbed the woman by the shoulders, picked her up, and threw her like she was doing a fucking luchador move. Fuck it. She seriously went in a luchador mode. I didn't mean to say fuck yeah, but fuck yeah, it's kind of fucking crazy. She said the lady's head landed hard on a wooden table, and blood began pouring out of her nose, and that's when Wana realized she probably killed this old lady. Or at least this is the story that Wana tells.

This is her story. She said she then walked outside, passed a patrol car, and almost fled the scene. But instead, she walked up to the cops and told them that she had a problem with the old lady she worked for, and it's thrown her to the ground. This is what I truly don't believe. I don't believe that she confessed like this. The police told her to wait in the car while they went up and checked on said old lady. But while Wana was waiting, she noticed that they were talking to some guy for about 45

minutes, who turned out to be the aforementioned renter. And it's at this point that things get a little muddy. And really, Wana Baraz's supposed innocence hinges completely on which version of this story you believe. Yes. I don't believe that she walked up to a cop and said, I think I killed this person. I completely disbelieve that. You don't believe that, huh?

No. I think that she was caught. And then I think that other things that she said could be true. But there is just no single way she confessed to the police. Well, the police were under a massive amount of pressure to close this case soon. And if we want to get into why there was a push to find someone in early 2006, we've got to get into a bit of speculative conspiracy. So conspiracy.

Conspiracy. And if you want to get into a good conspiracy, you mind. This is what I'll tell you to do. If you're home right now and you were in a baseball cap, you know how like you get like the little like rungs on it? Do like two rungs too tight. Like you really want to squeeze your brain. Squeeze the go.

Wrap your head in saran wrap for a little bit first. Make a hole for your mouth and nose. And then listen to this section. So get ready. Well, it sounds like you're just sort of asking them to squeeze their heads. Squeeze your head a little bit. So whatever it takes, even if you have a significant other, have them squeeze your head. Squeeze your head.

Yeah. Between your legs. The redder your face is, the more this is going to make sense. Sure. All right. So maybe even hang upside down for a second. Yeah. Sure.

Well, the mayor equivalent in Mexico City throughout the old lady murders was a career politician named Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, known for short as AMLO. Cool. AMLO had already left office in July of 2005, but right around the time of Juan's arrest in 2006, AMLO was in the middle of a presidential run. See it just so happened that many of the victims in the old lady murders were, as I said, attached to the C. Valle social program. And C. Valle was certainly something that AMLO could tout during his campaign.

There was, however, the Matavilla-Hitist stain still on the program. So it's possible, and this is pure naked ass speculation, that AMLO was using his influence to clean up the Matavilla-Hitist case just as the presidential race was just starting to heat up. It's not the first time it's happened. Definitely not. It's possible that the police by this point were looking to pin these murders on anybody who seemed even close to plausible, and Juana Baraza was just that person.

AMLO, by the way, lost the 2006 election by a razor-thin margin. Was that Vicente Fox that won that one? That was not, that was after Vicente Fox. That was Felipe Calderon, I believe. Ooh, Calderon. AMLO, by the way, currently the president of Mexico. Whoa! It worked out for him!

Yay! Now, according to Juana's recollection of what happened at the crime scene, the cops dumped Anna Maria's belongings into her purse, forced her to handle a Manila folder filled with the names and addresses of other old ladies, and convinced the renter to say he saw more than he actually saw. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot.

That's a lot. Yes, that's a lot. Later, once Juana was taken to the police station and put in the box, the cops asked her to handle several objects without gloves and without a lawyer. Things like pantyhose, a cable, some masks, duct tape, a bandage, and a bag. Why'd you guys have me holding all of these, what definitely appeared to be... Shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush.

Do you have any blood? Do you have any pussycum? No. We just need some of your pussycum. If you could. I just need to scrape some of this. I'm not gonna say one. This is the most pussycum I've ever seen.

The police claimed that these objects were, of course, all murder weapons, found at ten crime scenes, and that all of these objects had Juana Barrasa's fingerprints, and it was based on these fingerprints that Juana was charged with ten murders, although some sources say sixteen murders. This is the thing, man. I don't think the cops are good enough to even be this good at framing someone. You know what I mean? I think that this is actually a very hand-fisted bad way to frame somebody.

Yeah, I think this is like a dumb way to do it. If anyone ever comes up to you and says, like, hold the gun by the handle really quick for me, just really quick. Just really quick. I'm so good at this, man. I'm so good at this, man. We're doing this back. Well, soon after Juana was charged, the cops then claimed to have the testimony of a sometime

accomplice, a woman named Erisilly Tapia Martinez. Tapia said that from 1996 to 2000, she and Juana dressed up as nurses so they could rob old ladies, although Tapia said she never participated in an old lady murder. You know, like, that's the thing. I believe in some of this. I believe that she might have robbed some people. Wasn't she making money as a wrestling promoter at that time? No.

No, not in 1996. In 1996, she was already done with her career, so she's 41 then. Her career ended in 92. Yes. Okay. So she could definitely see that she ran out of money. She's very possibly could have, she's already cleaning people's homes. She's very possibly could have turned it into robbing people.

It could very possibly turn into, I can kill these people, nobody cares, maybe in a way. Maybe. I don't know when she started cleaning homes though. I think she'd only started cleaning homes like a couple of years before she was arrested. Which also probably could have gotten the idea from robbing people and finally got sick of the game of robbing people. I don't know, maybe. So you think she was robbing people and then being like, and there's a lot of dust.

Cleaning homes is also an extremely common job in Mexico. It's a very hard job. From what my wife tells me in Latin America, an immaculately spotless home is a customary thing. It's something that everybody like strives for and therefore you need a cleaning lady to come in very often to make sure your home is immaculately clean. Okay. Interestingly, Tapia, the woman that said she actually committed burglaries with Juana

Baraza, Tapia was under the gun for a different set of burglaries and a murder when Juana was arrested. So you see, yeah. But after Tapia rolled on Juana, she was freed from prison long before her sentence was due. It's getting money. It's getting quibono. Quibono.

Yeah. Quibono. Now, when Juana was arrested, both the media and criminologists found multiple reasons why it made sense that Ladama de Silencio was also La Mataviajitas. In addition to her status as a ruda, Juana also had an abusive past with her mother. This is like kind of what Henry was saying earlier. The theory was that elderly women triggered an uncontrollable anger in Juana Baraza and Juana, like many other serial killers, put herself in situations where she would feel

justified to kill. And she'd also make a little money off the loot in the process. I'm still putting the weight on the practical edges of the murder and not the psychological edge. Right. Another strike against Juana, as far as the media was concerned, with the discovery of an altar to La Santa Muerte in her home. Oh, that's common, though.

Yeah. People have it. Yeah, people have it. I mean, it was a full-on altar. You know, the skeleton figures with the capes, the photographs, the apples, the candles, the styrofoam cups, all in front of a wall painted bright red. In Santa Muerte, we know it's no more evil than any other belief system. It's fucking, it's normal.

It can, in fact, be quite positive and want to claim that she was one of those people who prayed to La Santa Muerte for good purpose. We did research. We talked to an expert in Santa Muerte, which was a British dude. Fascinating. Remember, they came to the UK and they basically, like, they came from the UK. They examined it with Santa Muerte. They believe they had something like 12 million people believe in Santa Muerte.

And the one thing that they say about Santa Muerte is that it works, but, like, it works. Like you can actually work with Santa Muerte. It works. But the problem is, is that Santa Muerte does not let you go, right? Like if you do enter into an arrangement with Santa Muerte for something, Santa Muerte wants more and more and more and more. And that maybe, you know, you can end this and finding yourself in a place where you believe, hey, I need a way out of these situations, maybe murder for Santa Muerte is a way for

me to succeed. So I keep on getting these push notifications for Uber Eats. I don't want you right now. Leave me alone. Every once while 3 a.m., you're like, Uber Eats, where have you been in my whole fucking life? Absolutely. Have you thought about hearties?

I've lived in ecotepic, considered by some to be the worst place to live in all of Mexico. Therefore, since Juana lived in a poor neighborhood, she was considered more likely to be criminal. And based on all of that, Juana was officially named La Mataviajitas. So now that we've laid out all the reasons put forth by the police and the media concerning Juana Baraz's guilt, let's go through the reasons why Juana may not have done it. And none of these, by the way, came from Juana's story. This is just holes in logic. Firstly, if Juana Baraza killed these old ladies because they reminded her of her mother,

why didn't she kill women in their mid to late 30s? Because after all, Juana's mother made it to 40 years old at most. Therefore, Juana had no reason to hate old ladies. I always think that that's dumb. I always think that that's dumb. When they do that with David Berkowitz, with the women with long hair, with long brown hair, they go like, you know, Ted Bundy, they try to do these things. These are like shorthand bullshit lawyer things that I think are fake.

But when you're young and you look at a 36-year-old, don't you look at the very old? Very old. So perhaps that's it. Old ladies were murdered because they were easy to murder. I think that that is obviously the connection. They're easy to murder. You can fuck it. You can hit them with a hammer.

You can hit them with your car. You could fucking push them off a balcony. You could set their homes on fire while they're inside of it. You could tell them you're Santa Claus and then spray them with gasoline. Oh. Like, there's so many things that you can do. The grandma's don't believe in Santa anymore. There's so many things you can do to Nana, right?

But like, with a woman 35-years-old, they fight. Look at Natalie. Natalie, kill me. She killed you. Well, Natalie's, I mean, she's an athlete. Yes, but I'm saying. She's a little bit more of a different. They're strong.

My grandmother, I don't think, would have been killed. She's strong like, she's strong like bull. But also, it just depends. She'd need a couple of bullets to the head. She was on Ritalin until the day she died at 88. They still interopped about Ritalin. Well, second, it said that Juana Baraza had a folder full of addresses and names attached to old ladies, and these were to be her future victims.

Those are cleaning. For cleaning. Well, furthermore, she was said to act as a social worker or a nurse, complete with paperwork to gain the trust of victims and a fake ID. Problem with this, Juana Baraza can't read. She's never explained how she was supposed to have had the knowledge to even look for these credentials amidst a fucking mountain of papers. I don't care.

I don't mind. I don't. The worst part of all is, I never learned to read. Is that true? Nora was it explained how she could read the contents of the folder to find more victims? She had a folder full of names and addresses, but she can't read. That's stupid. She does not have a Rolodex.

I don't agree. It's really that she had a Rolodex of people she was going to kill. Can I ask if you can't read? This is a stupid. I can't read. Oh, I can't read. But you could probably still disseminate, like, addresses. I think so, too.

You can still figure that out, right? I mean, you're just looking like, that matches this. How much can you not read? I don't know how a literacy works with stuff like that. Because we can read. But that's the thing. If you don't believe that she has a folder, which is something the cops put forth is like, this is very, this is evidence here, then that makes all the rest of the evidence circumspect.

If they're putting forth other things, like it puts a little bit more pressure on, like, well, if they're lying about this, what else are they lying about? Don't believe, don't get me wrong, I believe the police, they can frame a lot of fucked up things. They do what they do. I'm just saying that there are, you'd be surprised at the capabilities of the human and what we can do, right? If we want to do something, like, if she wants to kill.

This is your, like, Mamba mentality moment. But I feel like if she wants to kill, she's trying to kill for money, like, let's say it's fully practical, and she's killing just for money, and then it gets lumped into this idea of a serial killer, right? Like, she ends up becoming accidentally a serial killer. She's killing a bunch of people to cover her tracks. I believe that you can see on paperwork inside someone's home that they are part of, like, some kind of social, like, program, like, you see, like, a symbol or something on the

mail. Like, that's how you know an old person lives there. And that what you can do is, you could see a piece of mail, maybe, this is, again, complete total conjecture. She can't tell you. But you could see a symbol that you know is a social services symbol, like, you know that it's like, they usually try to cover it up a little bit. Not really, not necessarily, but you know that, like, this is for, like, this is social

security money. You know that this is, like, a thing that says that an old person lives here. And so you just start knocking on doors. Maybe you do build up your own role at X. I don't know. But that's the thing. All 17 women killed in 2003 were registered to C. Vale.

It's weird. But since Wana couldn't read, it's a mighty big coincidence that she just happened to choose victims who were signed up to this specific program. Unless she really was, which, that's a thing that I don't necessarily believe either, unless she really was a full on serial killer who looked who followed people and looked for, like, she was a process killer in terms of, like, stalking, like, she stalked these people. She built up, like, oh, I'm going to get her to here, this one, I'm going to get her now. I'm going to do this.

And then eventually she starts to see this, like, she builds out her own, like, how do I find out you're a part of C. Vale? Well, I definitely know you're old if you're a part of C. Vale. We've definitely learned one thing in this episode, it's time we eliminate all these social safety nets. Because what are they? What are they other than just simply fishing for future victims? Wow.

Well, third, it said that when Barraza was caught, she had a stethoscope in her bag. Yet the supposed murder weapon used on Ana Reyes was a stethoscope. That means that Wana was walking around with multiple stethoscopes in her bag to be used as potential murder weapons. I don't know. Why are there so many stethoscopes in this story? I don't know. No one's a doctor.

I don't know. But if she, again, it points to if it's real that she did a nurse get up to convince people then that might be like a prop. However, she, on the day that she was murdered, she was not dressed as a nurse. Nurses in Mexico wear blue and white. She was wearing a red sweater. She was not in any way. And in fact, the actual official explanation is she went asking for a glass of water.

See. Now, fourth, Wana Barraza does admittedly look like one of the police sketches from one of the earlier scenes. Oh, there's fucking 41 of them. Yeah, 64. 64 different sketches were done. 64 of them. So do all three of us.

Yes, that's true. She's bound to look like one of them. Yeah, she has to. She has to. At least one. Just like flipping through and be like, sir, these are all pictures of vegetables. Mm. Yep, that's a tomato.

Yep. That's a banana. I'm sorry, I'm just... That's a fruit. I needed a salad. Okay. Finally, as to why there were no more old lady killings after Wana Barraza was arrested, the murder of old women had already stopped before Wana Barraza was arrested.

The last old lady murder before Ana Maria Reyes was in October of 2005, three months prior. And that is by far the longest stretch there had ever been since the Mataviajitas murders began. Oh, shit. There she completely stopped for reasons unknown or the real Mataviajitas died or was put in a prison. Who knows?

I honestly, that is interesting because you also see serial killers take time off. They do. Like, you know, they do tend to, especially if she maybe got sick of it. Maybe the heat was coming down and she decided to say, I fuck it. Fuck it. And then all of a sudden she's like, I gotta throw one more fucking old woman like a bale of hate. I gotta do it.

Gotta do it. Okay. That's absolutely fair. There are many holes in Wana's story as well. See. She said that when she threw Ana Maria Reyes, the old lady hit her head on the table. But in the crime scene photos, there's only one table near the body and it's more like a small tray.

There is no blood on this table nor does it look disturbed in any way. Yeah. That's not good. Concerning motive, I'm with you Henry. It could just be plain old greed. Because what we know about female serial killers is that the most common motivation is money as opposed to the sexual thrills motivating most male serial killers. Because you look at the, again, I'll bring up the Boston Strangler murders because that

showed a sexual edge to not as much. There was a rage sexual edge in those murders that was not put onto the body. It wasn't like you normally see. It wasn't like 25 stab wounds had crushed. It was the body carefully posed with the, the bow, the ornate bow that was always made to make it look like, like to shock you when you open the door and saw the victim where this is very practical. It's very perfunctory.

It's they're murdered and it's done. I'm trying to get something. And it also takes quite a bit of imagination and distrust to believe that the police framed Juana so nakedly, specifically with all that fingerprint evidence. That is the only thing I don't believe, but that's the thing I don't believe. I don't know. But from what my wife told me, and she lived in Mexico for quite a long time, it's not as impossible to imagine this happening in Mexico as it is here.

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I mean, sure. We've been framing guys for singular murders for centuries here in America, even sometimes framing people for the odd triple murder. West Memphis three, they just talk about the, the evidences now, but they just show that they didn't destroy any evidence destroyed. Hopefully that comes to light.

Sometimes, you know, Americans, we might even add a few dozen victims to a serial killer's body count if they're amenable to turn a few murders from red to black. We did that with Henry Lucas, did it with fucking Pee Wee Gaskins. We do it again and again. We'll still figure out Samuel Little. I don't think we know fully. Samuel Little, we don't know either. Samuel Little, you just have his drawings and it's kind of the same thing.

He just saw those drawings. And then they actually not get drawings. It just, it just flimsy in my mind. I think so, yeah. But to pin a serial killer's entire body count to one person is a little beyond the pale for even the American justice system and it might even be beyond the pale for Mexicos as well. I don't know.

I don't know. It's hard to fuck. It's very difficult to tell what truly goes on. And concerning Juana's illiteracy, it is possible that she was working with an accomplice who could read, possibly someone who worked for the C. Valle program, which is how Juana gained access to the names and addresses. Split the money, kind of like master blaster. And they just split the money.

And then she just, and then she just wanted the whole world to hear her tragic story versus everything else. Like she just wanted the world to see what she went through as a person versus all of her crimes. She didn't talk about how she created a whole criminal enterprise. She could have depicted that through theater in the ring. True. True.

Yes, indeed. Right. She could have written a poem. She could have written a song. She could have created a really moving set of cross, the suns, cross, cross, be like hot cross buns. Well, at the very least, if she did do it, it's impossible for her to be the only person involved.

Maybe she was a part of a small gang of burglars and she was just the muscle. As to why she never said anything about this, it's quite possible that she or her family would be harmed if she rolled on the others in the gang. It's very possible. If the rest of the gang exists. All I know is that shit did not happen the way the Mexican authorities say it happened. It did not happen that way. It's impossible for it to happen that way.

I'm not saying one of Barraza is innocent. I'm not saying she never killed anyone beyond that one old lady. I'm just saying there's a different fucking story here. There is objective reality. Doesn't exist. We put to Kellyanne Conway this. I'm just saying objective reality is very difficult to discern except for the two people there.

The only two people that know are the old lady that was murdered and whoever did it. No one else knows anything that happened in that room. Nothing is known. Well, things are known. You know nothing about me. Our gravity is real. That's where we're sitting. Oh, is it?

Yeah. I learned that from Guardians of the Galaxy. I know. You fucking idiot. We almost got that. You flarking morons. Finish the episode. You wouldn't even know you're flucking Polish.

I hate it. I fucking hate it so much. It's like puppers. Puppers. I hate that word. It's very old. I know. Puppers.

Whatever. What does that even mean? People call their kids littles. Okay, that's fucking awful. I don't like that. Puppers or littles. Well, these days, one of Baraza spends her time in prison helping little old lady prisoners take walks.

Here we go. You're going up over the fence. There we go. Between the legs. I want to go next. That's even though Baraza can barely walk herself because of the injuries she sustained as a luchadora. I mean, she is not walking any better there than an old wrestler here in America walks.

This, if she is the raging old lady killer, would be the equivalent of Ted Bundy tutoring Brunette coeds from Death Row. He would have if he could have. Of course he would have. She definitely is doing this. She's like, see? See, I didn't kill this one. I was petting her cardigan.

Oh, my God. You thought I was going to talk about it? Get out of here, Ted. Oh, no. Oh, God. No. Ted. I'm just curling her blue hair.

Get out of here, Ted. I mean, one of Baraza, she actually went, it took a very long time for her to talk to the media. She did not talk to the media because she didn't want her story to be misunderstood. She said that she had talked to the media a couple of times and her words had gotten, you know, completely changed around. Well, the story is definitely not misunderstood, is it? Other than the fact we have no idea about anything.

So while Juana Baraza most likely did kill a bunch of old ladies, it's also possible that there might be a luchadora sitting in prison right now that does not deserve her reputation as one of the most infamous serial killers in Mexican history. That's cool. All right. We got a little lucha tuck in, we got some mire d'air, unfortunate for every victim, of course, our hearts out to the family. Really good work.

But that was interesting tale indeed. It is really interesting. I love kind of this kind of, we just did it a little bit with Lizzie Borden too, but I love this. Well, that's the thing. We kind of did it. Who done it? We did two who done it in a row.

Lizzie Borden, we definitely don't know who done it, but this one is like, there was a done it. But it's more like who? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Lizzie Borden versus. How done it? Where done it?

Lizzie Borden versus Miss Barraza, who wins? Barraza. Wanna Barraza? We'll fucking break your legs. There you go. But next week. I put Wanna Barraza against Dylane Wernos, honestly. Whoa, really?

I love to see that fucking fight. Oh my God, I'd pay money to see that fight. But next week, we have the tale, we're getting into some, yeah, yeah, see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See if you can know what that is, yeah, you see there, yeah, yeah, yeah, Barraza, yeah. We're getting some of that. We're talking cartoon cat cartels. Yes.

And then February, opening the gates, going to every single spot, every single podcast platform. Wherever you get it, you get it from Pothole or Lucy Lips, whatever you get it. Our patron is nothing is changing with our patron. Absolutely nothing. Just as bad as always. We're doing a bunch of shit. We're also going to start a new serious XM show Monday nights.

It's going to be a call-in show. We're going to let you know as soon as we know when our premiere date is going to be very excited for that. We just want you to fucking know right here in 2022, working harder than we've ever worked in our fucking lives. Are we doing Monday night? Pumping out the fucking grunch. Is it Monday nights?

Yes. Monday nights. We're coming into, we're coming to fucking homes despite whatever you say. We're not going into your homes. I'm not getting, we're fucking getting stronger. We're getting louder. In 2022, we're coming for your fucking family. Well, that's not really good.

With content. With content. That's right. Because you have to have your family. That's why you created it. All right, everyone, we can't wait for February and we can't wait to be wide. Can't wait for our relationship with Sirius and Stitcher to grow and grow and grow. And thanks for supporting all the shows here on The Last Podcast Network.

We have our weed line. Obviously the comic book. Soul Plumber is out this week. It is out in stores this week. So if you don't already have it on your poll list, make sure to go to your local comic book store and read Soul Plumber number four. That's one of my favorite characters yet. Pismaster.

Yay. I was there during the creation of Pismaster and I must say it is indeed pissy. Yeah, perfect. You'll love it. Very nice. And of course, we'll see you in Texas. Yep. Can't wait.

All right, everyone. Thank you all so much for listening. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. Hail again. My good relation. Tell me how old you are, woman, I'll keep you safe. Yeah, you better keep them safe.

I'll keep you safe, old woman. There's not, I mean, they don't have that much time left. Just wait. Just wait. Time will do it. It always does. Times the ultimate serial killer. Took Betty.

Did. Yeah. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.