Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 489: The Children of Thunder Part I - That's Not Gritz!

Episode Date: April 2, 2022

It’s time to return to the subject of cults with one of the most exclusive we’ve ever covered, The Children of Thunder! A three person congregation that would go on to murder five people in the summer of 2000.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last time on the left All right, baby boys, let's get into her. Oh, yeah, I love it when you say let's get into her That's my favorite way to start the show where you say you look at the two of us and you say You say let's get into Let's get into that spready, but the spread eagle episode and then I have reflexively said let's get it on Let's just get into her boys Honestly, it's really incredible to be here with my friends. We're in Boston and this story Oh, we're gonna get into her

It really puts the Podcast of the left everyone I am Ben Kissel hanging out with Henry and Marcus in today's episode I don't know what's about to go on, but apparently it's about to get whacked you. Is it a cult? Is it just a group of idiots? We'll get into it. Maybe it's both. It's the children of thunder This is the one where this is like one of those cults where they didn't attract any rocket scientists I'll be like, no, you see there's some learned people amongst this this crowd of neutered bowl-cutted weirdos It's essential crew only All right, the children of thunder not to be confused with the thunder down under which is a fantastic male review in Las Vegas

The children of thunder was a Mormon mini-cult near the San Francisco Bay area comprised of exactly three people Including the leader that's all he needed a guy named Taylor held sir in the summer of 2000 these cultists murdered five people and dismembered three of them dumping the dismembered remains into the California Delta in nine overstuffed duffel bags and while yes, we did just cover one of the craftiest Predators known Disgusting people around yes, Randy Kraft these guys are quite the opposite Okay, where they're instead of their crimes being slow the under the radar

Tena-teta with the police like you know one ultimate villain which versus a bunch of confused lawmen Sure, these three morons get caught real hard But this is not we're not even getting a murder of this episode. No, we're not all right We're comprised of two brothers named Taylor and Justin held sir along with an easily manipulated young woman named Don Godman the children of thunder believed that Taylor held sir was not Jesus Christ himself But rather the man who would usher in the second coming of their Lord and Savior That's so nice that's so humble of him unlike Rock Terrio who really believes you was a God He says I'm just here. I'm just a messenger. I'm just the gateway and also it

It's his lack of commitment that probably showed why they didn't succeed much unlike Rock Terrio in his own way was successful wasn't in his own way well by following a series of highly convoluted schemes fueled by meth and Ecstasy the children of thunder hoped to place Taylor at the head of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by way of Extortion kidnapping and murder and it's their ambition that makes them American, but I will say That's what we were talking about Marcus and I were joking about over text Mormons are the closest that Americans get to Canadians sure

The most ambition they had those ideas that they could flip the more Mormon church from the outside and is actually it's It's apparently very difficult. I think it is extremely difficult to overthrow an entire religion. Yes Yeah, well these schemes which only got more complicated and stupid as the cult progressed They had big signposts for each step But no connective tissue between okay, and that of course killed each and every plan the children of thunder had Before it even began. Oh as Henry said it blows up on the runway every time Oh, this is a cult that never got to take flight, which makes this a true crime story and not a cult story I was debating before the show is this a cult story or a true crime story somewhere between

You know it could be considered both, but I do agree with Henry that it's more of a true crime story All right needs like it just needs some to be a loft for a bit a cult needs infrastructure Yeah, well, we have how many times have I said this? Herbal life and also I think at least five people you have to be able to play a pickup game of basketball at any moment Just to teach the kids how cool your cult is you need to be able to play tag with the neighborhood of kids with your cult Well to that point the children of thunder was not a cult of just three people by design Rather Taylor Helzer was sort of a wannabe Charles Manson, but while Manson was Charles Manson didn't even want to be Charles Manson But while Manson was in LA hanging out with the Beach Boys and cutting demos with big-time producers

Taylor Helzer was selling ecstasy at lame-ass late 90s raves near but not in San Francisco That's why like he gives me a lot of Taylor Helzer gives me a lot of Paul Bernardo vibes Because he is that he is at that level of total corniness douchebagginess. Yeah, absolutely But again Paul Bernardo was an elite predator and in his own way. He was somebody that was truly Really thought you were gonna say rapper No, that's vanilla ice No, he but Taylor Helzer, I mean he would cause enough mayhem on his own But he just was not he doesn't really have the X factor

So he's the annoying guy at the 90s rave. No one wants to be there. Why is he here? He's got the drugs. That's it exactly Okay. Yeah, this lameness among many other reasons is why Taylor Helzer just couldn't get his sex and drugs congregation off the ground He was of the same linea just Casey Anthony's roommate So while Taylor was told repeatedly throughout childhood and adolescence by his mother and his Mormon spiritual leaders that he was Destined for greatness on a profit level. He was in essence a painfully average Human being that is the ultimate success in Mormonism though Soaking in of average No one can even know you they can't even see if you are the greatest to be an average aren't you somewhat amazing

I don't know now He was charismatic to be sure but he just didn't have the it factor that's needed to become a successful cult Yeah, that gnoi gnoi. What do you think it is? Is it a big it's big dick energy? I think we could say that apparently He did have a big shlong so that he was using it wrong. You have the energy. I believe we'll get into this I think what makes a true cult leader like actually effective is that at some point? They have to believe their own garbage enough But have a long view. Yes, they have to have a long view LRH. Obviously. He created the I was thinking about this last night Yes, he created it. Well, it's a cult. I told you called. Yes, sure

But more it's a world of IP that houses. It's it's a fantasy like role-playing game It's a sci-fi universe that LRH created that rules that got inserted into he had a long view This guy was really just in it for he thought that he could flip the Mormon church in like two weeks And I don't think not gonna happen. No, you know, of course It's also Scientology a psychotic cult that preys upon failing actors Which aren't they the most vulnerable of all of us and so and the most dangerous Jim Jones, I truly did try to change Indiana from the inside out like he did he had a long view there But Charles even Charles Manson I see that's why he is

He did not know but Charles Manson was better at getting pussy. Yeah, and Charles Manson I think Charles Manson had a longer view than Taylor Halter because Charles Manson did have a plan and his plan was achievable And I think that's the big difference is that you got to have an achievable plan because remember Charles Manson's whole plan was to get a Whole bunch of groovy 60s chicks out into the desert so he could fuck them and have doom buggy races all day long That's a lesson all of you need to understand two birds and the ass are worth one outside on the garage Absolutely, and if you just don't gut and kill people everything's fine. Yeah, everything is absolutely fine This is the difference when your cult leader is full of acid versus when your cult leader is full of math true Not a lot of long-term thinking. No, no

Well, even though Taylor Halter did not have Organizational skills what he did have was a sociopathic personality and he had just enough charm to ensnare exactly one Ordinary person and his socially awkward brother Justin. Have you ever seen the show the young ones? Yeah, he's Neil Justin is Neil like we'll get into deeper into what Justin's character was like, but yes, there was he's the sad sack pacifist Yep. Oh now Taylor and Justin's relationship I think could most closely be compared to that of Columbine shooters Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris to wit It's highly doubtful that Justin Halter would have ever committed a violent act without the influence of his brother Basically Justin Halter was an extraordinarily awkward super weird goth kid who had an odd obsession with juice and

Sometimes like to eat meals on all fours like a dog. Hold on a second. We're talking about aliens. Did you say juice juice juice? Not even OJ Not the man. Oh type of juice like mango or strawberry or lemonade based his personality upon The fructose corn syrup you like largely silent He loved juice and he they said that you could not be in a room with him when he ate because he loved to eat with his Entire face and it is not an exaggeration when they said he used to get on all fours and eat off a plate like a dog Of course, we all know Holder McNeely page seven round table. We've seen disgusting many sounds next level It really is and under the spell of his brother Taylor health sir became a brutal multiple murderer talk about that story arc

Yeah And before we get into the story, let's acknowledge our sources for today We've got unholy sacrifice by Robert Scott as well as a highly entertaining episode of wicked attraction That aired a few years ago on ID discovery, which is good for facts even if it plays a little fast and loose with the timeline Yeah, I saw some other good documentary on it from England. That was pretty good. But you know again that book Really fills in all the blanks of just how dull all of these people truly are at their center Yeah, most true crime stories don't have a full chapter on juice mango juice

There's a lot of juices the Taylor health sir was born in 1970 to two devout Mormons named Jerry and Karma both average people who worked as an insurance salesman and a housewife You can't get more average than that While Taylor was born in Michigan his family soon relocated to the Bay Area in California just north of San Francisco In childhood Taylor health sir could be compared to Jim Jones and that both Jones and health sir could be considered religious and spiritual Prodigies because Taylor could memorize and recite scriptures from the book of Mormon with ease from a young age I mean they do say that recall is the basis sign of intelligence, but I guess it's good Like does he understand what he's saying?

Well, he was invested as a little kid as soon as he got into Mormonism like as soon as he was like doing the reading parts He really loved it and I actually can kind of understand as a Child that was really into the Catholic Church and was impressed by the Catholic Church. There's a lot of fun stories Well, it's also it's the grandeur. It's the the feeling of the presence of the man himself the screaming flayed God Like all the kind of shit. It's you get one get robes And also a whole series of other things And God's right here staring at you and in a place like the Catholic Church or the Mormon temple You can feel it because they build it to be impressive and it had an impression on him

And I do want to point out. There's no such thing as an average housewife or insurance salesman. Thank you for what you do Wow, sure Wow, wow great Well, in addition Taylor was bright charismatic empathetic and helpful Therefore his magnetism combined with his passion and understanding of Mormonism Caused both his mother and his local bishop to constantly tell him that he was destined for great things in the church But again when it's when it's Mormon great things it means you'll be in charge of the bake sale Oh, you're gonna be in charge of when we all wet ourselves later on today. You see a couple of

Fun, I don't want to be in charge of the dirty whites There wasn't just them either Everyone loved Taylor and they constantly told him he was special and in this I think you've got the fatal flaw as to why Taylor Failed so hard at being a cult leader. He skipped the steps. Yeah, oh, you can't skip the steps Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell's full of shit, but there's something to the idea that you got to put in the work Do you do have to put the time in where other infamous cult leaders like Jim Jones Marshall Applewhite and Charles Manson had to fight for Attention to the point where their need for it was pathological Taylor was heavily indulged and more importantly

heavily sheltered Oh, this is where we get to dog meets scribe about participation trophies amongst cult leaders and how it's making a week You just give out awards. Oh, you've raped the most little boy. You've killed the most people Well, I'd just say you got to fucking earn it if you want to be on top Absolutely, Jim Jones is one of the most famous for a reason. Yeah, of course infamous I'm not gonna go with the idea of like best cult leader like my favorite cult leader. The best cult leader is the president It's Joseph Smith and L Ron Hubbard those are the two best. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the most successful. Oh, yeah, dude Hand-in-hand LRH fucking died in his own bed

Pat Robertson, he's got a whole enterprise. Yeah, but he doesn't actually work and he doesn't get people to worship him Specifically. Yeah, he's a part of the system. I've been doing it all wrong You don't have your Pat Robertson crucifix Well Taylor's mother believed that her son was a prophet of God sent to help save the world The boy could do no wrong and because karma believed in him so deeply the rest of the family followed suit There also was a precedent amongst amongst the family because we'll get we'll get into it. But and and Mormonism has that like caveat. It has this aside thing being basically like if you dream it You can be it like anybody can be a prophet within the Mormon world if you can figure out how to time

Your prophecy correctly, it's great if you're trying to make a baseball team out of ghosts But maybe it's not so good when you want to kill five people Well, Taylor's brother Justin meanwhile was the exact opposite Born two years later looking almost exactly like his older brother by the way, but dumpier a little bit I don't know. You put their mug shots side by side. You can't tell the difference Yeah, I thought they were identical twins for a little while the other one definitely Taylor is obviously That's the problem though. Yeah, if you're kind of handsome and your brother is actually handsome. You look ugly The story of my life but Justin had not a single ounce of Taylor's charisma

In fact, the only thing people seem to remember about him during his formative years was that he was one of the tallest kids in class Not even the tallest just one of the tall That is like what do you want on your high school yearbook? One of the tall one of the tall Well his teacher also that's the thing too is like whenever a teacher praises a child for he's like You know, he always was in class and he was obedient and I was like, oh, this is what we're gonna be known for In other words Justin was a born follower and was perfectly content to live in his brother's shadow Justin spent his life looking towards Taylor for cues and the two formed the sort of dominant submissive relationship

The charismatic sociopaths like Taylor Helzer so often exploit for their own personal gain Yeah, but you sure know they're not stepbrothers because I've seen some footage. Oh, oh, you've been watching stepbrothers You've you leaked over to just watching all of it. Yeah, you just watch every form of step family sex. I Don't watch it. You don't watch it. I don't watch it Yeah, you really do bring it up quite a bit. Yeah, I don't talk about it that much You know your last month or two you've taught you have mentioned a stepmom getting stuck in a dryer once per show Well, I am not just on this show on live shows as well. You've been Did I didn't misspeak about the girl that was stuck under her bed. They were roommates

All right, all right now that you've looked at the dot Amongst peer review Yes, I put it on Nexus Lexis and I figured it all out Well as far as other influences went concerning Taylor Helzer's upbringing He and his brother lived for a time with their maternal grandfather Doyle Sorenson Showing exactly where his daughter's fundamentalist beliefs came from Doyle believed that he like Mormon prophets past had actually Spoken to Jesus in his front yard with the Doyle say to him And when you believe six foot one six foot one is something we're incredible

Just see him right there. He's a he was right there. He was standing right there. He brought his own car magazines He just sits right there and he's just like a normal guy. Wow Now this is beyond just a vision Doyle went in a full moroni mode and believed that Jesus Christ had shown up in the flesh Claim that he looked out his window. Jesus was out there You have to stand your ground state so you're gonna get off my lawn Thank you so much. He just went outside and had an hour's long conversation with the man himself He didn't invite him in. You know, just why Jesus didn't need to come in. He likes to say I could fucking come in if I want to bro

The door to walk through it dude. I got nailed to a fucking stick, bro I know dude. I'll do whatever the fuck I want. Please God do whatever you want Perhaps inspired by the confidence in which his grandfather talked about his own spiritual experiences Taylor believed to have begun receiving messages from either God or the devil by the age of 14 He wasn't quite sure which you're gonna want to figure that out Yeah, and since he was told by his mother and his spiritual leaders that he had the gift of revelation He saw those messages as reality Well, he definitely learned from his grandfather that you can just say it and you can sell it

And if you sell it because that's really the key the key is to never back down Again, that's an American lesson. Just never show crack and the facade and you can get through a lot of different hurdles in life Like he and he basically as a little boy understood. I'm getting positive validation by saying random shit And because you say all mysterious stuff being like, I don't know if it was God or the devil You get all of his attention everybody coming to discern to look through decipher your messages This is a McDonald's. Did you want the Big Mac meal or not? The devil's saying fries, but God is saying that stupid fruit cup Fuck you God. Yes. Go with the devil so the fries. Yes, please Now to give you a quick refresher on Mormon revelation

Mormons believe that God speaks directly to certain members of the church and gives them so-called Revelations concerning everything from personal decisions to the direction of the church at large That's what makes the Mormon church highly adaptable and moving forward into the future because they don't make they understand It's the judo thing use other people's energies Passing by you footage I know yeah I mean, this is how they're able to constantly pivot throughout their existence in order to keep up with the times That's what has allowed them to continue growing the most successful modern cult in existence. I mean, I'm sorry Henry

But Mormons are much more successful than Scientology. I don't Scientology doesn't need the pressure Apparently a lot of the people who follow Scientology are currently cracking at their cracking point But I do love that the Mormon Church is allowed the banana hammock. Yeah, that's allowed now for the magic undies Oh, isn't that nice? What they're banana hammock. They know what so they no longer have to do like the boxer breeze They can now keep it tight. They're just cozy and nice That's nice temple garments. Oh, so you can make them like sexy now I think they're allowed to now. Is that inherent am I am I doing the thing am I applying a quality? Yeah, can you wear like one of those like borat swimsuits? You can do whatever you want as long as the

All of the men that are around you are aroused by the fact that you can that they can almost eat your penis Okay, cuz I've seen some Mormon underwear and it's actually pretty see-through. It's kind of fun Well, you've seen the Mormon underwear in certain documentary films Oh For an example of a Mormon church pivot they didn't accept black people as people until the 70s Partly because early Mormon church leader and shit-obsessed weirdo Brigham young Help legalize slavery in Utah saying that black skin was the so-called mark of Cain placed on Cain's descendants by God It's the same justification a lot of people use to justify

How many people did Brigham young the salt again like thousands about thousands he just what I mean Have you just call qualify the way he led the church? Yes straight up the into the thousand horrible person But in 1978 after white people had just enough time to get a little more comfortable with desegregation church president Spencer Kimball declared that he'd had a revelation from God that it was finally time to Inrestrictions on black members the thing is I just I love basketball and I just see that where the tide is going Right, and so I just want to be able to follow my favorite team. I just want to be able to baptize the Utah Jazz It's true because it also shows that there's a savviness there. There's a while. Yes We paint the Mormons as a bunch of

Plain plain goobers. There is it. There's a thing there where they understand if we want to survive We have to move and so we create a rule system that allows us to do that But what does that do is that kind of like in in our so-called? Democracy whatever you call our government these days the fact that you can have people that are truly good at their jobs Be a part of the system and then you can have people like Lauren Boebert that can also just get up in there and she's just Anybody else? Yeah, it's a republic now the power of revelation could ostensibly be seen as somewhat of a good thing because it allows for progression although one could also argue that

The biggest reason is it allows for wider recruitment pools after their existing membership gets comfortable with something new for this Example see the church's ever softening stance on LGBT members the LGBT. I guarantee you Gay people are gonna be accepted in the Mormon church within 10 to 15 years Honestly though look at the Olympics half of them It's a half of them of the Olympic teams But in the hands of a dangerous psychopath like Taylor Helzer the so-called gift of revelation Can be wildly perverted into the belief that one's thoughts no matter how violent or immoral Come from God and are therefore fair game for execution and whether he believed it or not

He definitely used that validation for his crimes. Yeah, so he acted on it. So that's It's just as yeah, so yeah anyway. Yeah, now even though Taylor eventually tried starting a sex and drugs cult He was astonished by the amount of drinking sex and swearing he encountered when he joined the National Guard at 17 in the year 1987 He couldn't handle the National Guard And you know he heard the cursing and he was like oh ginger berries I can't believe what's happening here. They're insane. They're saying F words and not forward. I thought I didn't even know That what they're saying we rhymes with yuck

Absolutely, but apparently also what they would do is they would stick porn into his gun manual actually that's what they did that to his brother Ladies and his gun users manual they've been like hey Justin you want to tell me how I can switch the scope on the 348 whatever bullshit And they should open it and there'll be boobies and he has to cover his eyes. Oh Fixer repair daily well after failing to convince even what I'm a Chevy guy I'm a Subaru boy

Okay Well after failing to convince even one of his fellow guardsmen that their behavior was ungodly Taylor ended his service for country and entered service to God heading to Brazil for his two-year Mormon mission Oh, that is actually a tough place to be with the temptation It's interesting because that was considered an elite get right to go down to Brazil Because normally, you know, they'll send you to fucking Cleveland Not one bit of temptation there though But though in Mormon is so they've seen like Mormons in New York like just covered in like

Covered in subway muck. Yeah, like watch them just broken stuff. I mean like got you, bitch Like but down in Brazil you went there you're foreign there. So you're kind of an object of mystery Absolutely in Brazil, you know even back then it's an emerging market a lot of fucking people live in Brazil Well, didn't Jim Jones spend some time there? He did. Yeah, absolutely did not that Brazil was kind of what broke Jim Jones Because when he was gone down to Brazil, that's when he started getting super paranoid about people taking over his church back in Indianapolis and after he came back from Brazil, that's when he became like Jim Jones I don't know if I would have come back to Indianapolis. I would have just stayed in Brazil Yeah

Now from Taylor's journal entries during those two years in Brazil you can see that his delusions about the exceptionalism of his Existence and his personal relationship with God were slowly but surely getting the better of him Honestly, I just thought pasties were a type of thing you could eat. Yeah, but apparently they jiggle quite often Well, Taylor wrote that he couldn't disobey the slightest whispering of the capital S Spirit which is an important distinction from calling it the spirit The spirit is somewhat universal. It's reverential. It's detached. It's like how we might refer to the president the shithead president But to just call his connection to God

spirit as If it's his close personal friend who whispers directly to him and only to him right Taylor Helzer was setting himself up as an island of reason in a sea of madness Oh, he's the example of just screaming at the world. The jury is wrong Tell the jury they're wrong every single time He had an idea and then he'd go and say like hey, this is my idea and everybody around would be like you're wrong He'd be like no you're wrong. Oh see point counterpoint Now once Taylor arrived in Brazil his missionary brother found that while Taylor Helzer was indeed charismatic

His obsession with the Book of Mormon and his spirit became so intense that Taylor began interpreting passages in unconventional ways Taylor just go to the beach Spend five hours at the beach. Please God. There's more to this world than the Book of Mormon Specifically Taylor Helzer became obsessed with the titular latter days the end of everything Hmm. He began to believe that technology would become useless in the last days and the church leadership would coalesce into groups of Warrior prophets who would defend the people and their faith against the armies of Satan I like his version of what would happen like Mormonism has never been so metal as it's been inside of the brain

If I was gonna take a cult to fight first of all, there's only three people in this one So they're gonna lose. Yeah, I do think at its peak Jim Jones's people probably could have gotten pretty savage. There was a lot of old people It was a lot of people on a lot of young people Nansen proof is in the pudding Well in essence the world that Taylor Helzer predicted was a combination of Mad Max The Book of Revelation and the Book of Mormon all set in a sort of Lord of the Rings environment Where Satan plays sauron spreading evil through the black gate from the lands of Mordor

Taylor I suppose takes on kind of a Frodo type role. I think he saw himself as an Aragorn He did view himself as the ultimate warrior priest that would have a substantial amount of wives as well That's also folded in but you know, it's a very immature Aragorn only had R1. Yeah, and it's whatever. Yeah, they couldn't even fuck. What do you mean they couldn't fuck? They only didn't they only fuck the one time and the rest they were all like talking through spirits She'd play a flute or something and he just watched the series to the end. You're in the middle of a rewatch I'm not gonna spoil it for no one has ever seen Lord of the Rings, but it's a 20-year-old movie. Yeah, it's like once No, it's not once

They get married she becomes his queen She gives up a mortar She gives up immortality and refuses to go to the shores beyond so she can live a mortal life with Aragorn It's a bit of a side quest and it is surprising that they have sex with each other. They're not even related I all feel that the obsession with the end of days because I remember when I was a kid I was also morbid and I was also into everything horrible. You were morbid. I know okay Um, but I was into all of the end story everything that was about the end of the world I was hyper-fascinated with it's a like it's an emotionally stunted view of your

Disopposed Mormonism that you're attached to you know, you're all good. We're all gonna die So in a way the world goes with us. Yeah, and my mother used to let me stay home from school because the world was gonna end So she would say it doesn't matter Benjamin. Let's go and pick a little wiggly. It was a bad decision. Yeah, but in addition to his unorthodox reading of the Book of Mormon Taylor also came upon the same conclusion that many Mormonism inspired cult leaders come upon See as is evidenced by the concept of revelation Mormonism is very much a make-em-up religion Joseph Smith founder of Mormonism was by far the most successful religious con man of recent times even more successful than L. Ron Hubbard, you keep pointing at me. I don't owe him any money You avoided all that

Well, Joseph Smith died before Mormonism really took off his successors took Mormonism to the next level through constant Reinterpretation, it's a living document. Yeah, it truly is and the only reason why I keep pointing at you is because I kind of see L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith is like the oasis and blur of Like I'm more of a blur guy because I'm a Joseph Smith guy and you're more of an oasis guy because you're into Now Ron Hubbard. Well, I would know I would flip it bro because blur is not even guy He didn't even get to America. What's that one song to is still played at fucking sports games everywhere It was a parody of Nirvana. It wasn't even supposed to be that big of it It happened accidentally to them. That's true

But it still became a huge hit was the name of that one band that had to kill themselves that one lead singer to kill himself Because he stole that riff from that one more famous band. What you don't diamond. Oh, oh Yeah Yes, someone also like the verb there, you know, like the verb I think the guy from the verb is like But the problem with this make them up nature is that any old Joe can go back to the starting point of Joseph Smith and say that Every interpretation of Mormonism after Joseph Smith's death has been wrong But as it happens that old Joe is just the revelation everyone needs to set the church back on the correct path

Okay, and most of the time this just means going back to polygamy. Yeah Yeah, 99 times out of a hundred it's just going bad. It's like, yeah We should just all be having a bunch of wives and we go live in Mexico, you know We're in a trailer park somewhere. Yeah, it's all about revisionist and when the men revisionist They mean going all the way to the very beginning. Mm-hmm. All right But every once in a while a man with a murderous rather than a horny mind latches on to this idea and disaster Always follows. We've seen this truly within the Mormon of any specific group I think it's interesting that it keeps happening within Mormonism. Yeah little tiny little cults break off from the top

Right and kill everybody. They kill on everybody involved. They do a bunch of crimes and then they quickly dissolve the war Somebody like Warren Jeff. Exactly. They end up being in another whole like level of systemic abuse in that type of the worst of the worst I just watched a documentary on YouTube on Warren Jeff's. I don't even know how I got there, but man that guy's a demon. Oh, yes Killing that there's worse than a demon. Yeah, he really is and during Taylor's mission in Brazil He took his ideas to the mission president who told him that those ideas were wrong. Excuse me. What was that? So Taylor began reading works by church leaders at a higher level But when those writings didn't match his ideas either he decided that either nobody knew what they were talking about Or they were all liars hiding the truth dumbly true detective

That's like that guy at the foot the punisher mask on he had a punisher face mask on in their shirt That says this mask is as useless as Joe Biden and he was at the desk and it was a flight was delayed And he was screaming. That's because you won't tell us the truth We're like, I just got to get on this plane. We just delayed it's their cloud. I don't know what happened They said there was something wrong with the fuel gauge. See the clouds have gotten hard However at the same time Taylor was also a phenomenal missionary Oh, despite his unorthodox beliefs, he got results when it came to recruitment and he was again lauded as a spiritual leader Well, cuz the thing about him was we'll discover the thing about Taylor is that he had no guile or shame

He really could talk to anybody and he was a in Brazil If what was considered a very maybe very interesting, you know, like let me know if that's incorrect But the idea of being of a tall Attractive white man Outside of like in another country, you're the foreign person now and it's nice for people to see it And he really got an experience the Brazilian people actually seemed to really like him and he did set a bunch of records for recruits Yeah, well, you know me and Carolina. We're talking about this the other night while we were watching 90-day fiance the other way Actually does have some bearing on this because like I was kind of like just it's

astounding sometimes the status that we have purely by just being American sure specifically just by being American and white Yeah, oh, yeah, it's not good. That's about status as well, but it's perceived status We're not saying this is from an American perspective So we don't really fucking know in terms of how you look at I also feel there's just as much people who hate us for the exact same reasons But it's also that thing where like if you are a Mormon, you're this little fresh-faced goober like you probably get it It's more disarming If for somebody like him at the time period, especially to have people react to him so positively

Well, I know during the bush years and probably the Trump years whatever it might be a lot of people would lie and say they're Canadian when they Go overseas did it? I always say I'm American and I deal with it coward because there was a woman in Australia that actively hated us Yeah, that's how it is. Yeah, but you know America than America. They don't even know it. Yeah, that's true Wow, that's part of the American you gotta fucking deal with it man. I know you gotta fucking deal with it Absolutely when you combined Taylor held sir success as a missionary with his disillusionment with the Mormon church What you got was a megalomaniac who believed that his way and therefore his beliefs were Correct because after all one of the biggest metrics of success in Mormonism is recruitment, right? He's in it. That's the thing is that we talk about with serial killers all the time

It's those little bits of validation the little things that you do that kind of like they give you that feed and he saw it immediately Be like I fucking gotta be right. Yeah, it's just bizarre. They want to recruit Given their their theory of heaven more more finite the amount of people that can get in your fingers No, you're thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeah, no with Mormonism Everyone gets their own planet after they die and the planets are infinite. Is that right? Yeah endlessly recruiting Yeah, no Jehovah's Witnesses. They're the ones that say they only have 144,000 places in heaven. Well, I want to be one Do you want to be one? That's all I know. The greatest Jehovah's Witness of all time. I'm gonna go on and say I don't think he was I think that he should not have been in Jehovah's Witnesses and he should have just lived a nicer life. He loved it

He loved it A roast as dark as the night Perfect for fueling the cryptid research and mad ravings required for your podcasting. Don't mind the red eyes He's just trying to warn you of the bridge The bridge finally from the caffeine-addled brains of Spring Hill Jack coffee and last podcast on the left We bring you Mothman's red-eye blend. Yes, delicious Panama beans go to last podcast merch calm to order yours today Now once Taylor returned to California, he kept his belief that the end of days was coming and they were coming rough Oh

My Therefore Taylor became a survivalist which conveniently fit in with his near fundamentalist family's belief system a lot of people in the Helzer family lived apocalyptically which only fed into Taylor's belief in his own ideas I feel like it's another way to kind of live life in a fantasy world Yeah, that's what it is. It's you create this sense of stakes like everything's gonna be over soon and and Everything matters so much more you think because you think everything's life and death We're like, well, yes, everything is life and death. We do live and then die It's this idea of living in constant fear of the end. I mean, I don't think what what does it do for you?

Well, I mean, it makes I think what it does is I mean it makes browsing on Amazon, you know An adventure, you know, like it makes going to the store a life-or-death situation where I am getting provisions to make sure my Family does not die when the end days come and they're coming any day now. We're like Campbell's is five for nine Three for four and of days absolutely. Maybe he loved rehydrated food. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I actually love astronaut ice cream It's really good. I honestly like it too. Is that dipping dots? No, no It's when you pour whole milk into the asshole of a Russian I Dipping dots are astronaut ice cream

Astronaut I get it dipping dots the future of ice cream. They did not win the war. No Taylor also returned to California to find that his little brother Justin had copied his path by also going into the National Guard And when Taylor came back preaching the apocalypse Justin believed in that apocalypse. Yeah, you're right. That's great. Honestly a national guard They were crazy money over there. I heard they swore quite a bit Well together the two brothers became obsessed with a right-wing survivalist named Bo grites Although it's spelled grits with a Z. Bo grits It's an interesting character, but it's pronounced Bo grites. Oh, I'm calling them grits Because well, there's a there's a future pun going that you're gonna want to go with grites

Yeah, and grites by the way loosely inspired the character of Hannibal on the A-team. Oh, yeah There's also some there was one thing I read said that he inspired Rambo as well. Wow A grites was a former green beret who served in Vietnam and eventually ran for president in 1992 on the populist platform under the slogan God guns and grites And he supplemented his run with an isolationist political manifesto called the bill of grites That's the pun that's the pun it doesn't work with the bill of grits So much time in this house last week my grits bill was insane Absolutely nuts. We're right around the same time as his presidential run. Grites was also involved in the Ruby Ridge standoff

He was the guy who talked Randy Weaver into standing down yet He also organized his own Re-invasion of Vietnam to search for POWs on his own time. That's incredible. Yeah soon after of course soon after Ruby Ridge grites began conducting a survivalist training program called spike or specially trained individuals for key events Whenever he came up with spike first Yeah, it sounds like he filled it out later. Yeah, what's what sounds like a dick, but you can kill with it No, not coincidentally Bo grites had at one point also been a Mormon

But it removed himself from the membership roles of the church after saying that the LDS was more controlled by the government than God I will not allow a law to be inside this house and there I say that's not grites No, that's a catchphrase That's a pun he gets That's not grites Grites's exit from the church had more to do with his income tax return than actual orthodoxy But from Bo grites Taylor and Justin Helzer took the phrase spiritual warrior Which began to wrap Taylor's belief system in violence not not to be a Bo grites did not call for violence

He absolutely did not I want to make that clear, but the phrase spiritual warrior It definitely ding ding the violence bell and Taylor helps or so. Yeah He of course tried to commit suicide to get his wife back by shooting himself in the chest in a way that he knew wouldn't kill him Who would send a message to his wife because he was there because he's wrote this whole long thing. It's an interesting story But he shot himself in the chest and everyone's like if anybody knew how to commit suicide, it would be that man That's how I know he didn't mean it And then afterwards Bo grites was like because I'll tell you what every day I slipped in the muck of Vietnam I knew my angel was home waiting for me and every day I'll wake up to fight the tyranny that is taxation in America

I would wake up and my wife would be there that angel would be there When I woke up in the morning to comfort me and now to think that I would not wake up with my beloved Beverly at my side That's not great Did she come back to him? No Well speaking of marriage around this time Taylor Helzer married a woman named ann after he convinced her to convert to Mormonism But the marriage unraveled so quickly that the couple went into counseling almost immediately after their honeymoon You should not have to convince someone to change their entire Orthodoxy just to get married to them. Well, this is also just the kind of sad state of what it's like to I mean

I feel for people who feel the need to get married so early or like think that they have to do it like you have Approval also not even with that It's just like in general like ann and him had like two conversations in high school Or she's like he's at my nice and then like he went and did all of this shit He came back and then he was he's not obviously Taylor's not a nice man And so when they met back up she struck it back up with him She's like, oh, we should really get serious and he's like you're not a Mormon. You can't touch this dick Because he had bought it and so she it was really kind of I feel bad for her because he felt the need to have to be married

Yeah, and get up with this dude immediately generational thing also a lot of people just getting married so they can bone zone But you can just do that. Oh, yeah, and just fucking gush on the hip Just don't make it count Sure According to ann everything always had to be Taylor's way because Taylor was so goddamn special It was ridiculous to think that his way might not be the correct way And if you challenged him at all he'd get angry and tell you that you just didn't get it Yeah, of course, it's totally normal to put ketchup on steak

I also think the idea of you just don't get it It's just I it is I don't know what about that response makes me so fucking furious It looks like rocket science in which case I will agree about that. I don't get I don't get that But that's different, but someone's saying like, uh, you don't get it. It's good. You don't get it. It's like what is this? It's just this is real life. It's not the internet It's infuriating furthermore out of his parents house and on his own in America for the first time Taylor was finding that the secular world was a hell of a lot more fun and interesting than the Mormon shelter He'd been raised under from what it sounds like it all began with television

See Taylor had never been allowed to watch tv growing up So when he moved in with ann and got cable he'd spend all night every night watching show after show saying quote There's so much great stuff on He literally 24 hour news cycle. This is 1992 93. Yeah, so we're before the 24 hour news cycle That was 96. He got so I mean, I get it. I get I mean, he's not just watching cable news He's watching all okay. If you showed time life commercials. If you showed benjamin franklin mtv's the grind Before he wrote the constitution of america. Like honestly, I think this country would be different You can just see the dust coming off of his crotch as he gets hard for the first time. Oh my god

Are you kidding me benjamin franklin fucked all the time until the day he died no one in this country fucked as much as He would have been on the turkey. It should be the turkey at the fucking spring break house He would have been there the only guy with no flair in the front of the ponytail and back with the tiny glasses Yeah, they really did man. Like when he used to go over to france like everyone got super excited because they knew like the Good orgies were about to begin On top at this week. We talk about madison cothorn saying that he was invited to some orgies In washington and he was done too pleased with it. Yeah, I bet That orgies orgies with chuck grassley. Yeah dot orgies

Well from there taylor embarked on a kind of second adolescence stopping off at arcades after work for hours at a time And you said run around truly shoes have to go literally have to physically pull him out of the arcade because he was stuck on the machine Yeah Yes, it's like earth girls are easy He also discovered pornography and tried to get his wife to try every single thing He saw in the videotapes and magazines he picked up I think it's interesting when you when you see people talk about this because like this is remember This is a Mormon lens. Yeah, so everything you're looking at is through every various Mormon point of view

So this woman when the way she described it, she was like and the things he wanted me to do I saw some of the footage of it and it was absolutely reprehensible and you know, the only thing she's talking about is the butt Yeah, it's just ain't it's all That is the only that's the worst that it got unspeakable acts. I cannot believe it was like no It's pornography. You could have bought off a stand. It's but Frozen dildos I want to remember those fire and ice there was a penthouse centerfold that I will never forget fire and ice and I believe they had frozen dildos So perhaps you wanted to do. Oh, yeah, there's some peepee play. I saw some nugget magazine

No, yeah It's always the one in the middle of the three pack that you steal from the store Yeah, I always remember in one of those I got a club confidential that had this whole like Pregnant woman breast milk spread I thought it was confidential Marcus is gonna get sued But even though Taylor was living the 13 year old's dream of unlimited cable arcades and porn He still managed to get a job at Morgan Stanley as a stockbroker through his wife's uncle in 1993

If you've learned nothing from Wolf of Wall Street, you need to understand that stockbrokers are not special Anybody can be one. Yeah See even though Taylor had wacky religious beliefs He was still a sociopath who could turn on his shallow charm whenever he wanted and was therefore one hell of a salesman He actually enjoyed cold-calling customers, which personally I think you got to be a sociopath to enjoy cold Honestly my favorite hobby You can just see him trying to bond with people at wall street just slipping them nugget magazine under the table Have you heard of pornography?

Have you heard of video games? Justin Helzer meanwhile had an uneventful run in the National Guard and went on an uneventful two-year mission And without his brother's charisma. He got a job installing cable TV He is truly a pool noodle of a human being He is I don't That a pool noodle is at least fun. Yeah, you have a function on it. Sometimes it slides between a woman's legs But Justin Helzer is a fucking a useless Human well guys are we kidding here? He installs cable. He's an american hero. I guess he was back in the day

That was a tough gig. I know but the thing about them is like I love our cable installers if we have anybody listens cable installer I know but they're needed anymore But they're not really but the thing is is that they're they're their moral compass was always off because you could give A cable guy a hundred bucks and he'll do whatever you want like he will just give you evil I fix it all up. You get the free paper view and they're very easily bribeable. Yeah, well, you're also talking from like a 1992 Perspective that's not like that anymore. That's why I mean you're now you're in there man Yo, yo, no, I try to offer the good We did have cable put it in the house and I did because it's like what do you get?

Yeah, it's like no now it's all corporate or whatever man You can't do it and they don't want to get fired because they're living paycheck to paycheck and it's really hard out there Yeah, it is Now taylor branched out into the more salacious and adult corners of the secular world after three years working at morgan stanley And the whole time three years. He's keeping his vices to tv porn and arcades Do we not know if this is just the plot to beg? Yeah That woman had sex with a 13 year old boy and at some point she does need to be brought to justice

And she and at the end of it even after she knew that she had sex with a 13 year old boy She still had this winsome look on her face It wasn't horror like absolute abject horror that it should have been because that 13 year old boy had the dick of a man He did he really did the dick of tom hanks Well in addition to all that according to his wife taylor also began dressing like a 15 year old and speaking as someone who was almost 15 in 1997 it was not a good look Well, let's not just the jingo I will put it this way

It's I don't know if it's like specifically like a 15 year old because I know I have reached an era where I am dressing However, I want because I never got to is a little You don't have a conch shell necklace. Yeah, I don't that was needed. You don't have frosted tips Again, this is a Mormon perspective So I think when she says that he's dressed as a 15 year old it's because he's not wearing us He's not a business man He doesn't wear his suit to go to work and he doesn't do all the shit It's like he's wearing like t-shirts and say like billabong on

Shopping at paxson. Yeah, he's probably got some wwf gear blood from a stone It's really cool stone cold steve austin shirt. I had like 50 fucking wrestling shirts. It was really cool Oh, I mean no one thought it was cool. But yeah, I thought it was cool. Yeah. No, I thought my stone cold shirt was kind of cool Yeah, man. I had my fucking no fear shirts. Yeah, big johnson shirts. Yeah No, it's a trouble. Yeah. Yeah, we had bear piss beer Those were fun. Those were fun Well leaving behind ann and the two children they had together Taylor left his home for weeks at a time and started smoking drinking and going out to nightclubs

Where he experimented with weed cocaine and shrooms But considering how this was 1997 and taylor was also discovering the rave scene His main drug for a time was ecstasy. What brought you here? Well, I started with street fighter Then I played street fighter two next to you know, man. I'm just here at this rave selling you drugs Whoa, cool. Yeah, that's the best story I've ever heard Isn't that weird? But the thing is if you know if you remember college because I know I was like that because I didn't really do that's a tricky question I did not do a lot of substances throughout high school, right?

Like I mostly I smoked a little bit of weed But I really started hard drinking and smoking until I hit 18 and I went into college And I really think that those first moments are foray into Substances, you know who that guy is. Yeah, where he's just like, hey, man. Have you tried shitting on weed? You only got that bullshit from half fakes where it's only like a guy who became it became his entire personality Was ecstasy and what does that mean? Oh, no, you are an insufferable human being I would almost say you're by definition a psychic vampire because these people on ecstasy They want to be happy, but they have to steal your joy to do it

Yeah Now as taylor began to see just how much fun the adult non-mormon world could be He conveniently also began to believe that he'd been betrayed by the church His mission had been a bust and his marriage was a bust So therefore taylor didn't feel like he had a true place in the lds He and this is all from like the first taste of a non-mormon life Well, I mean he's been at it in like three years like but seriously that he escalated in those three years Like it's just kind of interesting because he barely was he barely paid attention to his marriage and his kids and all that kind of

Some fucking kid like slips him a joint at the arcade and it's all fucking over from there It's over. It's like it's what they were it's like what the dare people thought would happen It's really for madness. I mean, I think that's what it is is that really that only happens with super sheltered kids Yeah, it really does if you're if you have parents that like raise you like a normal person then you know, it's not that bad This is like it's super really do fall down like you have to you know be dirty as a kid You know build up the immune system. Yeah All the parents Anything when especially when you're a kid get out of your system. Well, I don't know about that

But I was going to say give your children small amounts of booze young, but that was also a bad idea The french do it. It's fine. What's that the french do it they get the kids wine The french have some issues in italy. It's legal to smoke when you're nine is that right mandatory even Yes, but I think the biggest reason why teller rebelled against the lds and his marriage was because his life was turning out to be Extremely ordinary See he'd been told for his entire existence by both his family in the church that he was destined for greatness Instead all he had was a regular ass office job a regular ass wife and two regular ass screaming kids I was supposed to have my own planet

Where's the planet? I mean he's not waiting till death for that fucking plan. Oh, he wants it now. Yeah, that's nice I guess I'm happy that my parents were just like I hope he gets a job as a manager at burger king Like that's kind of nice dev lowered expectations too. Yeah. Well, I really feel like pressure I guess if it's not put on you the pressure is not put on you then good But you know, it's nice, you know a little conditions nice Yeah, of course It's internal you have to have it yourself

But ironically speaking to the ordinary point even though the bay area club scene of the late 90s might have seemed exotic And exciting to a former Mormon like taylor helzer It was ultimately just as ordinary as his own life. There's nothing special about doing x and dancing to mobi Yeah, it just takes sometimes a couple of years to understand that You're like And then it's just the I you know what it is It's a couple years of waking up like leaving a place at 6 a.m And you come out to the light and then you go onto the subway and you see like teachers or construction workers

And you're like a big old mess and you're feeling worse and worse and worse and like no one's digging you No, like taylor is not it's not like he was a party promoter Like he wasn't at the center of the action at limelight. You know, I mean like he wasn't at studio 54 He's in the worst place in the world Now mine wasn't x mine was that same situation. It was cocaine and it was coming out a home sweet home in the lower east side Yeah, it's six in the morning and it's not Seeing people go to work because then I know I don't have to A lot of times it was because I had to wake up and then go do some type of work. It just was always horrible

But just as taylor fell into the world of drinking and recreational drugs So too did his brother justin and both began doing both on the regular This however, wasn't what truly scrambled the brains of the helter brothers That can be placed squarely on the shoulders of a self-help course big with Mormons called harmony Which sent both brothers down a destructive path of amorality I wouldn't not necessarily even say In any other type of show that we've done that like this one thing was what really shot him down the pipe But it really was it really was like a there's a show on cmbc not to plug

Um, it's called business boot camp. Yeah, please don't watch it and it sucks and all they do is scream at you And they're like this is gonna make your business better, but it's not it's just there for to watch It's there so I can watch you suffer. Is that kind of what this is? Well, let's get into it Okay, harmony was a ripoff of another self-help program called impact And it therefore shared many of the same basic beliefs and techniques And they're all a ripoff of a thing called est which is run by verner her heart and it's again It's the same thing. We cover this randy craft was a part of with the original group of people

It's weird how those synchronicities show up right because the s training is exactly the same as impact and harmony they all stole from each other and uh nothing really in the end helped anybody Okay Now it's hard to find concrete information about impact because quite tellingly The founders of the program have gone to great lengths to actively Expunge any information on the internet that portrays them in a negative light. Yeah, just tell them we're part of nexium But when you look at the testimonies on x-mormon message boards You can see that impact is somewhat of a combination of the business practices of

Scientology and a light version of the mk ultra technique known as psychic driving Concerning the former impact was a spin-off of life spring which stemmed from landmark forum which came from mind dynamics Which is of course a component of Scientology money laundering It is it's interesting because as we've said there are certain things in the lower aspects of Scientology that can be helpful As you've said, but I have read an article. I was reading this massive Of this it was about that from the behaviorist perspective about the idea of breaking down what est is s training is Like kind of get in mind of like because I want to know like when we did the Scientology series What exactly is the shit that they're talking about? What is what happens when you go to harmony training?

Right and a part of what they do is it's a roast battle version of a Joel Osteen show Where you write like a testimony about who you are and then you go into a room Right, and then they take the information you gave you and they break you down using what you gave what they gave you Exactly what they did to Ted Kaczynski. That was the that was the fucking experiment that broke Ted Kaczynski was doing exactly that But they don't but then you have to do the build-up part. There's a build-up part We'll get to the build-up part. There's that's what makes it similar to psychic driving And what makes it similar to an mk ultra thing of course because the Ted Kaczynski thing was related to mk ultra It all comes back to mk ultra and also a lot of this was stolen from the tactics of verner erhardt who who lrh

He was so offended by his training that he sued he sued him for theft of intellectual property In addition impacts tiered highly expensive system of escalating programs Mirrors the business model pioneered so many years before by L Ron Hubbard Starting at level one with what's called quest training currently available for the low low price of seven hundred twenty five dollars What impact starts with a four-day retreat covering such vague concepts as relationship skills Accountability and leadership in reality though the quest training within impact was a highly abrasive Confrontational experience that supposedly broke down old beliefs in these sessions which started at 6 a.m. every day a Facilitator aggressively asked deeply personal questions then insults the participant until they sometimes either cried or vomited

They're supposed to sit in a chair not move. It's supposed to be a bathroom break every four hours and let them out Right, and then they can go the whole idea Marcus and Kessel what you guys don't get and said it's all about Can you even sit with yourself for a goddamn minute? Yeah? I mean I was in a plane over six hours to get here. What you're doing, man. Oh, yeah, that's your act, bro You're playing into your act. It's your act. You show up the kissel did the bumbling? Oh, beloved simpleton this man covered in grime and beer flex. That's just the act That's not you right nicely. You actually said that but I mean that's not even my act But you're lying to everyone because actually that is you but your actual portrayal

Yeah, bitch Well, for example as far as like them asking questions and completely breaking them down One woman admitted to being sexually abused by her fathers and brothers the facilitator called her a slut. Oh my god That's just for the first day Jesus That's what they're trying to do You gotta warm me up 750 bucks, huh? 775. Oh my goodness back then in the early 90s. It was like 325. So inflation is definitely caught up

Uh to harm you by today's standards pump number nine. That's about 2,500 bucks 3 weeks going on But on the third day after the participants are broken down the facilitator switches to a more loving tone Just like they did with psychic driving Manipulating people into thinking that some good had actually been done. Well, this is where they kind of get off And it's cool because it's technically a limited time period that you're spending getting abused Where Scientology it's a whole lifetime that you're signing up for and they keep moving the goalposts of what you Do you have shown that you have been effectively trained and then you have learned and you have grown

Where this is at least it's one and done in a weekend A lot of people's lives are literally shattered by the weekend. Yeah, what usually happens They just stayed broken But thing about that is that they became convinced that they could only be made right again through the higher levels Which only got more and more expensive. It's horrible. Welcome to the Zabrowski thought clinic I can't wait to have everybody aboard. We're going to be doing this to toot. Everybody get aboard the thought clinic train bus Ship because what I'm going to do is get your thoughts and turn them into Aughts because it's about what you ought to do. Now what you thought you should do

I love it. I don't know what it was about the weekend, but I really think sketch comedy has potential And I feel like overall the Polish are one of the funnier people Honestly, that clinic really showed me a lot of Henry's impressions are not as problematic as I thought they were As far as what sorts of manipulative activities these people participated in They'd sometimes play a game in which you and three other people all had to pretend that you're all in a ship That's gonna sink One of you were given three popsicle sticks and whoever got those sticks would be saved while the others would be left to die And to make it even more disturbing the popsicle stick captain could also choose to keep one for themselves

Oh, yeah Each person had to make an argument as to why they should live and the others should die And by the way, this happens after you know, everybody's deepest darkest secrets And more often than not the popsicle stick captain kept one for themselves Regardless of the arguments made by their imaginary shipmates. That's real dog meat. That's what you don't fucking get. Yeah. I'm standing up I know it. It's fucking real. It comes down to it because it's about what is is and what ain't Thank you, Bill Clinton. I just want to be the person who eats all the popsicles Yeah, I guess you do got to get the popsicles. Don't you? You do have to have a little fun with it

You don't get one because you're a bitch Bob, you're a fucking Bitch, so you don't get one cherry Bitch, you don't get one? Perfect Hey, what's up, everyone? How you doing ben kissle here with Henry Zabrowski? Yeah, it's me, man. Yeah, bro. Henry Zabrowski is smoking some of that sweet last podcast on the left Go out there and purchase yourself some. I hope you enjoy it. We have sativa We have indica and we have a hybrid and I have to tell you for my personal experience

They are wonderful super tasty live resin You really get the delicious weedy taste which is what I like and three different experiences You go to your local vape store and get it. Absolutely. Thank you all so much for supporting the show We absolutely love you can't wait to see on the road and get that vape Put it in your brain and have a good time And if you want to set your favorite weed store give them a call and ask for them by name last podcast on the left It's weed. Hail yourselves, everyone. Hail Satan Now while some people have said that impact training destroyed them emotionally or led family members to destroy their lives in the pursuit of its

Promised results others like taylor and justin's mother karma Loved it. Yep after starting with impact She switched to the ripoff program harmony and brought her sons into the fold and with impact Taylor held sir found both a cult leader roadmap and the justification he needed to bring his darkest sociopathic Urges to light as much like any other Thought system right there are things that you could learn into you like a rational person or an improv class If you're truly we're never elevated skills that you can learn but you can pick and choose and understand that like oh Some of these teachings are allegorical

I'm supposed to learn by example and take this with me and it's maybe a long it's a life lesson And I'm supposed to play out over time a lot of times these things are not supposed to be taken like word for word Literally like because if you do it and ends up It did you end up hitler? Like it's that type of shit where it's like you can't just buy into some kind of esoteric system wholeheartedly You have to kind of is about reflecting you to people should more people should read the cabalion. Yeah, that's right And basically impact and harmony had a belief system close to the objectivism of ein ran in which the only thing that matters is the self Additionally these programs stress that the concepts of right and wrong do not exist or at least don't matter

I mean they do it when you're driving you want to get to a place Well, um Yes, that's the idea but what really matters is if something works or it doesn't there's no right There's no wrong. It's does it work or does it not and I am not going to speak well of Objectivism in any way shape or form But the way I will compare it to is because est is kind of like what I said before it's weaponized zen buddhism Like it's this idea of destruction of the ego version of yourself What you what you portray the idea that what you think and believe are not you that they actually have no bearing on what reality is

So there's an objective reality at the very bottom of it That is us as individual souls floating around and goop But that type of shit right and then it's all about trying to get to that get to the real And the thing is why would I want to do that? I don't know. I honestly I don't know because I like my thoughts I'm like I kind of consume on my thoughts. Maybe that's a problem. Yeah, but again I want to get to the opposite. I like the opposite. But the thing is is that it's interesting because this so that That sentence is supposed to be about it's supposed to be about not judging your judgments

On a feeling that you have and it's all about like kind of lessening how hard you are on yourself For having condition responses to your own responses, right? Like being mad about feeling guilty Feeling mad about being sad like those types of things But he did it wrong. Yeah, I mean while other people saw impact as something in which they participated Taylor helter saw it as an instruction manual on how to manipulate people and it is yeah a day You break them down you humiliate them and you build them into something else that you can use And it's with this belief that right and wrong did not exist The Taylor helter began to try and build a cult using his brother Justin as his first disciple

I tell you what that sounds that sounds like a lot of fun Taylor It's just jimmy The second member or at least the attempted second was a highly attractive waitress named karry firman In 1998 karry was working as a server at the peppermill restaurant in concord color film She used to work in a diner You have a saw a woman look fine. Remember that son. No, no No, she used to work in a diner never saw anyone look finer. No, what's the name of the song? Can you name it? Wendy's

Wow, we're just deep into I don't know if this is an uncle corner. This is like great uncle corner Somebody knows it out there. Oh, yeah, someone's yelling. It's harvest or something like that And the peppermill restaurant in concord, california. Taylor helter came in and chatted karry up Karry thought he was handsome and charming. So when taylor left a credit card instead of a tip leaving a note by yourself Something nice. Oh my god. She was intrigued. So do she doesn't have that much money on it but also it's just the thing that like Beautiful woman things happen to her and sometimes she's just like thank you by yourself. Nice Well, she admits to her. She admits that at this point. She was a low point in her self-esteem

You know and taylor took full advantage of that. He completely abandoned his wife and kids And manipulated karry into moving in with him faster than you could say charles manson charles manson Wow that fast and they're together now. Wow I think I think it escrow to go so fast Well soon the two of them moved into a rented house with two roommates named olivia and brandon Along with taylor's brother. Just like the dream you told me all about with your brother and two roommates. This is great Oh, yeah, and he they get to share a room with the brother. Yeah, this is awesome. Yeah Thanks for the credit card

Now from what karry said taylor was very loving and made her feel special and he had that effect on a lot of people He was very manipulative and rotisserie tuesdays. It had a double meaning But soon after it. No, he just watched. Oh, yeah, he did just watch Yeah, at his brother's at his brother's request I got taylor when you get when you're going down on her I'm like, oh, that's lunch. I wish I could share. Oh my lunch. You wish you could share I made a phantom. I mean a little ghost patch. Yes, that's ejaculate but soon

God ghost patch But soon after abandoning his family taylor began to believe that he was destined for greater things and great men Don't have office jobs. Hey, man. Don't gotta look at me, bro Can't get me back into an office unless I'm seeking my revenge very abstract So embarking on his first of many schemes taylor began the process of scamming morgan stanley into giving him disability payments by faking mental illness It worked He went days without shaving or showering and babbled about wild ideas openly in the office Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen

When we get rid of trains, right? Like and get rid of cabs Helicopters You know what man? They went with that shit You know, there's an uber helicopter service in fucking new york right now that you can take a fucking helicopter from your office building to LaGuardia and jfk. I'm not doing it unless it's Gallagher's. I have to start writing things down Oh, yeah, that was Gallagher Gallagher's idea And kary firman meanwhile played the part of the concerned girlfriend trying to save her partner from the throes of mental illness And sure enough it worked and taylor was soon living on the easy street of fraudulent disability payments

Once taylor convinced kary to help him out with this scheme He talked her into taking the same harmony impact courses that he'd taken And since she was by her own admission highly suggestive and vulnerable She felt like she got a lot out of it Now in the house where taylor kary justin and the two other roommates lived taylor began ruling the place as an authoritarian Copying what he'd learned from the impact harmony training. Oh god. What an annoying prick. Oh, yeah, and he also refused to pay rent Oh, yeah, because he was in charge. I'm the conductor Okay, you see the conductor paying for violins. You think the conductor he's gotta fucking rent his baton?

But no, they it's a tiny room and it was like I just think about just how Stupid this beginning is because the other two roommates were not involved. No, like they were just Normal ass roommates just being like, yeah, I see you got the mini cold going on here. Um, you guys could leave my mac and cheese alone I'm gonna put my initials on it. Yeah, just so you do that also if somebody Uh, the the manager wants to know about the garbage disposal somebody call by the guard your disposal. Meanwhile, he's like I am a child of light Just leave the mac and cheese alone. We're fine. Well eventually Taylor convinced the quite attractive kary to pose for nude pictures to try to get her a spread and playboy

Either I don't know what is in game with it either He was trying to see what he could convince her to do or he was just trying to make some quick money We wanted he kind of did the thing of what was it from stepbrothers? Were the the group they had it was a events worldwide or like I forgot where their their thing is He this is his beginnings of wanting to create a hyper elite escort service Yeah, and so he thought that when that was like what it will get into it But he definitely used her he thought that like see we've got a playboy model on the raster And he did a bump up all of our shit and then Justin's like, yeah, I'm gonna be amazing. We need honesty

Maybe a couple big hung guys, right? A couple big hung guys. That's Carl hungus Yep, so this was also probably for his own status, right? So he could be married to or dating a playboy model something like that I mean he borrowed 2,500 dollars from his father for new boobs for kary probably never paid it back either but quite shockingly Gary got in very good. He was a playboy playmate I have one of those like classic like huge fake tits soft focus like belt and garter's 90s playboy

You're talking about sable from the wwe Well sable's sable spread was a little more in focus than the 90s playboy. You really was most of the time Playmates always had a soft focus. I think my eyes crossed pretty hard But I mean it's hard focus like you got to see every single inch of sable in that spread Yeah, look at the fine. Oh, yeah look on your face. You're like an umpire I spent a lot of time with that issue But it is the you know, she didn't make it I would put her on there as um, you know, maybe this is controversial to say but probably most attractive cult member of all time

You know what? I'm gonna go ahead and agree with that. Well, yeah without a doubt. I kind of like the mancing girls Oh, sure. I mean, I want to hang out with them. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean conventionally attractive Sure. Yeah, definitely the only playboy model to be in a cult that we know of how we know of yeah Yeah, there's probably a lot of Scientologists playboy models. Oh, I think there's a lot. Yeah. Yeah They're going off this Taylor pushed carry further into the world of sex work Convincing her to dance nude in the strip clubs of san francisco while also acting as a back room Pimp who set carry up with oral sex gigs Now in true pimp form Taylor kept most of the money carry earned from sex work

Saying that he needed it to invest money in a program of his own making It was going to be similar to harmony instead He invested that money into what was basically an escort service called in to Me see In to me see but hey kissle if you say It sounds like into me see into me see intimacy, which is no into me see I'm so it's so gross man. It's about get hand jobs. I get it. Yeah

Taylor healths are soon took on the pseudonym of Jordan Taylor and printed into me see business cards That ask potential clients if they wanted better relationships better sex and more joy in their lives It is with you Taylor and uh a hand job With a further finance adventure Taylor became an ecstasy dealer at the local raves and tried Forcing his brother to do the same but this seems to be the only time Justin ever split from his brother Because while Taylor was a rave guy Justin liked the goth clubs. Okay rave versus goth. This is a how can they stay together? There's not that much difference. Maybe there's a little difference email side stories lpotl at gmail.com

When I have met gods, they're normally not Like simple, you know what I mean? Justin was a simple goth. I I don't I don't know if Justin was as simple as you're making him up. I think I don't think I don't know if he was I think he was just a very submissive human being I don't know. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know. Maybe I'm just giving him like goth points I think you're giving him goth. Yeah, but yeah, maybe I'm giving him goth points But that's the other thing too. There is a link between the rave world and the goth world sure cyber goths Oh, yes. Oh, don't tell me I belong the cyber goth community is a complicated one I thought you were gonna say the movie blade

Yes, yeah But But Justin was still under his brother's thumb in many ways Sometimes as I mentioned before he would watch his brother have sex with kerry at taylor's request And also as I mentioned before Justin was seen by his roommates on more than one occasion on all fours eating from a plate on the floor while making loud smacking So he might be right. I got it in my eyebrows. Yeah, I think And he's just I think he's just an impossibly weird human being. I don't think he's simple

I think Have you ever eaten food like a dog? No, but I'm not that weird. I'm not a weird person. Sure. Yeah, right? I'm really not. I'm a very normal person. I'm a normal human being Don't give me that look. They can't see the look you're making right now Because this is why I'm not commenting This is me. We're keeping the business together Well, you're totally normal markets. Absolutely. Everyone loves dirt and bones When you said oh, I've already got so many raccoon penises. Yeah, that's not my doing

I didn't buy the raccoon penises. People are giving me the back pillow throw things away that they're giving but you know That's the thing about on all fours eating like a dog I don't know if that was his own doing or if it was a request from his brother Although I do admittedly. I think it is. I think it's the former. I think he did do it because he liked it He's a weird goat. He's just a weird guy. He's just super weird. I think you were right with goat. Yeah He's a goat. Yeah Now once the idea started flowing Taylor evolved out of into mc Then started brainstorming an impact-inspired project called transform america

Transforming america Which was based on what justin called his 12 principles of magic number one always have coins number two never kill a pigeon Number three girls got to be skinny if you want to cut her in half Monocle as well always have a monocle in these 12 principles He swiped ideas from impact like the idea of there being no right and wrong But he also added certain caveats that could justify any future actions He might take because it was obvious from these principles that his future plans Required some big justifications. Oh, yes very much. So it was it is a

Justification guide because I like he will make sure that whatever he does is in the power of christ It's all this kind of bullshit. We're like no matter what he does god willed it. Yeah, he proclaimed himself perfect So he could do no wrong his perceptions were deemed always correct Isn't that something and he decided that the only way to gain control was to lose control well fantastic This is gonna this is just wonder it means that he is god It means he can do as much meth as he wants. That's what it means. It's perfect meth Again, remember all this has got little sprinkles of meth You can feel the meth at this immediate point. This is not quite into meth yet. Oh, he's he's seeing it around

He's wondering what's that all about. What's that over there? I could check that out later You know, my brother thinks he's a dog Perhaps most important though was the principle that said that quote spirit knows everything Meaning that anything that came into his head could be seen as a revelation from god because remember spirit talks to him Meanwhile, taylor was still in the sex game And he began pushing carry into helping him build a new venture to fund transform america called the feline club You fucking get it I actually what does it mean the feline pussy club is that what he's doing is making a pun

Yeah, I mean it was essentially a high-class escort service for richman in the financial sector Okay, this escort service. However soon transformed into another truly harebrained scheme and right here This is when he starts doing meth Oh, okay, and ecstasy at the same time fantastic methtasy. Yeah, you know, it's like being unnaturally happy also being incredibly fast The basic idea was that taylor would get attractive young women to pose as sandwich delivery girls You already got my ear. Wow Interesting those sandwich delivery girls would deliver sandwiches to taylor's old morgan stanley office now ask them if they want a hand job Um, not quite yet. First they would gain their trust and then they would lure them back to the house

For a hand job I just want the sandwich Once the men were in a suitably compromising position taylor would photograph the stockbrokers with those sex workers and blackmail morgan stanley for 50 Million dollars. You just don't mind me and you see him as setting up the 1920s camera. Just to stay still Because i'm just gonna blur. I need to see your face. What's because um, then he'd reveal Hey, guess what she's 14 Like I need to show her and he should be like have the braces back on you behind

Oh, no, but you know who did this Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah He literally so it's not that harebrained. No, it was real. Yeah, it was real I think the harebrained part was the 50 million blackmail. Yes, that was the harebrained part I think that the harebrained idea was that he could even get it together. Yeah, so morgan stanley is like, all right We have two options. Well, we can pay him 50 million bucks or what if we normalize fucking teenagers? Let's get to the radios By the way, he was willing to settle for 20 million

He's a real buy like we ask for 50 million We get 20 million because that's you started 50 million. That's right. He's so smart Yeah, well to recruit possible sex workers Taylor would go to raves and hand out true or false questionnaires to gauge the moral flexibility of potential minions in his far-fetched scheme These questionnaires read quote sex before marriage is wrong true or false I'm a powerful sexual person true or false. Oh my god. I'm a religious person. Hmm true or false I don't do drugs, but true or false Lying is wrong true or false. Come on anything

Stealing is wrong True or false bro. I gotta get to the bar man I have a pencil Oh my lord Now not surprisingly taylor was not able to recruit a single woman successfully Because no one goes to a rave to fill out a questionnaire unless you're getting free camels That is true. Oh my god. I got so many fucking free camels from those ladies in motor city. Oh, yeah, so many Oh, yeah, you're the luckiest guy around marcus. I was and they still sent

Fucking they still sent like literature to my family's home for years after I mean It only kills one in ten And kerry was starting to realize that taylor was nothing more than a parasite And this actually threw a bit of a wrench into taylor's plans See before taylor even really got his ideas for transform america together because if there's one phrase that can be used in Conjunction with taylor helzer. It's jump the gun Yeah, he figured he needed a core group of three people to help him out His right-hand man, of course would be justin and taylor hoped kerry would be the third well, that was a

Twist on a mormon story and mormon old. I did some I filled with the term It's not a psalm. It's something like that where jesus chose three people to go with him to america And so that's what his justification. That's where it comes from However Soon after kerry's playboy spread was published. Yeah, playboy offered her a full contract. Whoa, so she moved to los angeles These titties are going places Nice never once looked back at the almost cult she almost joined. Wow Now she just has to go watch you hefner masturbate. Yeah

She dodged a massive bullet would not be the part of this cult She was in a couple of videos Now like you know playmates un zipped. Oh, we did we do the research This isn't like other true crime podcasts. That's right. We look at the tips. Oh, yeah I definitely made sure I had full understanding Of kerry firman fantastic. Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah This there was however still the question of who of who was going to be the third And taylor found the perfect mark in a 22 year old former meth user named dawn godman

Who had left meth behind after finding solace in the church of jesus christ of let it a saints Now it's quite possible that justin and taylor had realized that kerry hadn't worked out because she didn't have the mormon foundation So they began trolling lds singles functions beginning in 1998 It really is pointed because I didn't think about that idea because at first I was like How did they get dawn and then because then I realized like oh, they met her at a singles show It's like, oh, this is all they were doing. They were just going to look and see Who's the saddest one in the crowd? Yeah, and not only who's the saddest one in the crowd Who was going to approach them? It was actually he did have some clever ideas because he would show up

I love this because he'd show up in full rave gear Like literally like not dressed like a mormon at all like he has fucking like saying fucking dreads in like fucking It's like shiny pants on and then justin would be in full gulf like black dressed like a fucking vampire And they just like roll in being like what what are you gonna do about it? We're a little different and they did the head twist right Yeah, I mean this one was a murder mystery dinner And this one time they both showed up and all black because they're trying to go period

They dressed as like 19th century preachers. Everyone else by the way just dressed like mormons. They're in full costume Yeah Well, everyone else laughed at the two obviously desperate dickheads and did their best to avoid them Don was drawn to the pair because they looked like the meth heads She used to hang out with back when she was a meth head. She's like, oh man I used to be a meth head too. Maybe I can talk about meth with those guys. They're mormons. They're not doing meth A little bit of quick conversation. Don viewed herself as an outsider Right because she said that she was never properly loved or paid attention to and she saw these men

They were being mocked by the rest of the tribe. Yes. Yes, they might be stinky And obviously begging for attention, but I'll give them their attention because no one gave me anything And I'm going to reach your cross and be the mormon land bridge for you to walk across Don't do it Don. Now Don wasn't made the third member immediately partly. I think Don was not what you'd call attractive because taylor had just lost a literal playboy model I just don't know if you're transform america material. We kind of want to move a different direction Yeah, Don wasn't particularly pretty. She was overweight and as we'll soon see she was a bit of a dollar She participated in the murder of five fucking people. That's why we can rag on her

But yeah, she showed up and she definitely it's she was the dupe that needed to be there Yeah, just full on dud. I think it's the best way to describe her Yeah, so taylor helter continued trolling for possible recruits not at bay area raves. He learned his lesson there But rather at church where he started holding informal study groups in the parking lot after service was over If i'm the pastor, i'm like, yo, brother, you got to get out of here, dude This is exactly what happened is that he started hosting his own he'd be like Yeah, you guys are at the bible study see at the bible study after the bible study And then he'd like walk out to the fucking parking lot. This is benny's burger joint. You can't sell burgers right outside of it

Yeah, well, maybe you don't understand america and freedom and the fact that i brought a grill I paid for the parking lot Parking lots, uh, you can't own a parking lot because i watched pocahontas Well taylor told people that the lds had wildly veered away from what joseph smith had originally taught Saying that listening to the church was like listening to the wrong radio station One of them was evil and one of them was godly So they're both djs. Yeah Through that study group taylor began convincing interested women to attend harmony impact courses probably thinking

If your harmony impact breaks them down first, I don't got to put in all the groundwork. This is dj jesus christ Here's another hit song. It's the same one. I always play the age of aquarius One of these women a sometime follower named kelly lord Said that taylor would often test her loyalty by asking such meth inspired questions as quote Hey If i asked you to rob this carls jr. For me, would you be open to that? Oh, no, man. We can it's a transfer of america material. We're gonna have to go. We can just buy it We're just gonna have to go. Oh man

Kelly however saw right through taylor and when she told him that he'd end up like david koresh if he wasn't careful He tossed her aside saying to her like he said to anyone who disagreed with him She wasn't on his level. You don't get it. You don't get me. You don't get transform america. So you don't get in Sometimes you don't get stuff because it's too stupid. No, that's all No way another woman who came close to joining taylor's fledgling cult was debba mclanahan Who also knew taylor and justin from the lds church now at first? She was drawn to taylor just like all the rest and she would give both taylor and justin erotic massages to completion

Now you can't see it, but marcus did do the jerk off No, uh, yeah, because i don't know if you talk about jerk off or you talk about does she just massage her but then sit on their face For 15 minutes. We just don't know. We really don't know. We don't know it was to ejaculation The author of the book did very explicitly say to ejaculation to make them ejaculate with a little bit of interesting Additionally this woman Uh debba mclanahan she and future follower don godman who we just mentioned They had a threesome at taylor's request with some dude. They met at a bar called catfish charlie's

The romance is in the air in that apartment with the other two ass roommates It's just like wondering what the fuck they're doing sitting around being like maybe we need to leave san francisco I thought i was giving the prima barrel arena. I guess i'm not because i'm 45 and i'm a polish man And i guess we're all just gonna have to go, huh? Like oh, they're all trying to play smash brothers While this cult is forming in the living room This was peak san francisco right after the real world They got a little rub from that a lot of people thought san fran was cool Yeah, this was peak san francisco in 1997

Not the 70s But again, like most of the rest the game didn't stick to debba And she left taylor to continue her life as both a mormon and a witch She did both. Oh, okay. We contain multitudes. Absolutely a war a mormon. Mm-hmm a warman A war a witch you mormon don godman however had fallen for taylor schtick completely And attended harmony meetings with gusto. She said that her meeting was in a sealed off warehouse with no windows And people couldn't even go to the bathroom without permission and even if they got permission They had to go with one of the people in charge. Uh, well jokes on you. I'm going to the bathroom right now

And you just completed the program. Yes You got the shortcut. Whoo The first day she said was constant verbal attacks perpetrated by a tall blonde man named deon Who talked in the same authoritarian tone that taylor often used when he wanted to convince someone to do something They didn't want to do hey don. Guess what you look like louis anderson now got you Hey guys, come on. You got a body like an orange, but not the personality. Come on guys. Roast mode. Roast mode. Gosh. You got gnome legs. What? You can't believe you said that to me

The goal don later said in a moment of clarity was to get her to a place with no fixed values A place where right and wrong didn't exist and when she got to that point She became a willing if disappointing number three. Guess we'll take her. Yeah, it really was that Yeah, I mean he wanted the hot lit. He wanted the men's and girls, you know, he wanted the hot lady fucking cult Sure, and it's just a don. It's just a it's dawn and his brother leads like a dog And then dawn she like this is what we're saying. This is why it's just not an elite team and dawn She was mostly pulled in and this is true She said it was because taylor would hug her no matter how long and how far she wanted it

She loved to be hugged. She'd never been hugged. She's just like and you just wouldn't believe Taylor he'd sit down on the couch with the and he'd hug you for an hour She obviously was never loved or anything. No, no, I mean there is the I mean it is sad I mean, this is the part where you're like, okay, like she she had a hard upbringing She kills five understand, but then she kills five people and dismembers three of them And tosses their Remains into a river delta. Maybe they should have given her a hug We don't know that but we'll get to it. I'm sure it's possible

And this is the only time when the free hugs people could have saved someone else I love that. You know people offering free hugs. It's always the people you don't want to hug. Don't touch me Yeah, well eventually taylor began bringing dawn in on the ideas that he had for schemes that would fund transform america Even though he didn't really seem to have a good idea of what transform america would actually be just yet You don't get it. Okay. You're not with it. You don't get me. We're transforming america. Yeah, actually here to listen What do you think? What is it america's like this? But what if it's like that like that? Okay, great Yeah, well, I mean his whole thing is like we got to fund transform america first. We get to get the money before we can Really figure out what transform america is really all about. Oh fantastic. And this is truly an american flaw

This is because he's obsessed with capital. He's obsessed with it He didn't even think about you need a fundamental system first and then fund it One idea was to shoot out the windows and a bunch of fast food chains Okay, then when the stock dropped like say you shoot a bunch of taco bells and taco bell stock goes down You can stock falls that right? Yeah, right? No listen, no listen and everybody's like all the tacos right everybody's like just a revolution against tacos in this country Yeah, and then when the stock falls you buy a bunch of it up And then you stop shooting the windows at all the taco bells stock goes back up you sell it you make a fucking mint, bro

Boom don't could I just get a hug? Yes don. Yes How about I just wrap a sweater around your real tight that'll work Well, that's quite messy plan like most of them just never got off the ground. They never actually tried it It was just one of many like spitballing ideas because it's fucking stupid. Yeah, this is fight club This is fight club. Yes Well, meanwhile, justin was keeping a journal of his goals for the year Which were just as vague as they were pathetic because remember justin also

Helped kill five people. Mm-hmm. Among others his three main goals were quote. Okay. Number one driver Okay, it's the word driver with a question mark. Okay. Number two Sexual lover so he wants one of those he wants a driver and a sexual That's a thing. We don't know because number three does make a distinction. Number three I want to become a druid It doesn't even say i'm gonna become a druid. It just says come a druid They're very confusing because it's like driver driver. What does that mean?

Does he mean he wants a driver? He wants to be a driver because he's not gonna drive Well, I think how fun to like have like a driver and honestly people don't understand when they read it I mean a golf club. It's interesting. Nascar was pretty hot in the 90s. Yeah. Number two is sexual lover I don't know if he wants a sexual lover or if he wants to be a sexual lover He confessed to dawn that he did not have many partners in life and he was not He lived with his brother and kept on watching his brother have sex with a bunch of women And he ate like a dog and yeah, yeah, he didn't really have a thing Yeah

By the year 2000 Taylor began to trust both Justin and Don enough to tell them his ideas for transform america Or more likely he finally got his meth and ecstasy adult thoughts together enough to form a somewhat coherent idea You guys are gonna get this because you guys get me. All right He revealed that transform america would basically be a training course that the whole country would take Yeah, it would transform america again. I got it transforming america And in order for this to work, however, Taylor would need to first install himself as the head of the Mormon church, of course Oh, but that's like a huge thing Details it's like my main thing is to detail my main thing is like how I know I'm gonna make it show business

Is I'm gonna become lord michael's Yeah, I'm just gonna go lord michael's is alive And I'm gonna go get him. I'm gonna go get him. I'm gonna become him. I'm gonna be that I'm gonna do him This is the same idea as like when your mom asked you like Henry. Have you ever thought about being on Broadway? Why aren't you ever in those television shows? This is what she hit me with last time I visited. She's like, I don't understand. I saw that one show Why aren't you on that show? Why aren't you on young sheldon? I don't know. I actually did audition for young sheldon. Did you get it? Yeah, I've been there for fucking years. Oh, yeah, my main character. Yeah, I play come lord

It's incredible. I milk young sheldon. It's about the whole show. I've never seen it It's about a young sheldon relationship with an older man. Oh, I didn't realize that that's why because it's your social fan Yeah, okay. Oh, this is what I'm talking about with like big signposts, but no connective tissue where it's like number one I become head of the Mormon church number two. I transform america through a series of training videos Number three. Jesus christ comes back. Boom. All the rest is details bro Even billy blanks had a better business model than this. Mm-hmm this plan, however Which did not yet have any shape or form would take a lot of money. Hasu. Okay. Gotta have a lot of money The worst of all things. He knows that that he's gonna need a lot of money for this. Okay quite possibly

He also needs we might have to kill some people. Maybe. Okay. I don't know Well, no, but are you willing to go far enough do it? Yeah, can I get a hug? Yeah Dawn not right now. Okay That's not great. All right. All right. No, I'll see all this as I'm hugging you dog. Thank you. God you're hot Yeah Well a warm present That's I'm currently going to the bathroom I I love the harmony training out really it really took all well at first like taylor softpedal the idea of murder

Just you know god, we know maybe Murder murder murder. Maybe you could just maybe we could sink him. Yeah, maybe we can get him We're gonna sink people. You know what we'll do shoot him with a little Squirt gun every time they do something naughty. We'll send him with squirt gun. Okay Well, he told justin and dawn that killing was acceptable to god On certain occasions it is because even the bible and the book of Mormon featured god murdering people When the situation called for it and even sometimes told someone to murder someone else sure got you delegation I guess so

Obama killed millions And when stuff what millions millions millions you just say anything. Yeah, you really can't just say And once dawn and justin agreed that murder was indeed acceptable because there was no such things right and wrong only results Okay, taylor's mini cult spun out of control impossibly fast and it's with the cults resulting Five murders. Oh my god. We'll continue our story next week and you can't even Imagine how fucking Stupid their reasoning is for killing these five people somehow it just gets dumber. Yeah, but with the dumb

Comes absolute brutality as well. That is the worst for the last broadcast. That's the last podcast promise Thank god. So gold star in the next episode. Thank you all so much gold star, but it is brutal Yeah, they don't hack off dicks anymore. Yeah, I have to do in like randycraft You start to understand like they really use a bridge there. There's a there's a barrier to what truly is a gold star Like I would just say that it's just It's a lot of murder for dawn. Yeah, I mean like it's because it's dawn doing it. You're like, well, this is a lot Yeah, and it's a lot of hammers a lot of hammers. That sounds like it might be a gold star episode I mean unless you're bob vila and that's how you want it

All right, he got beat to death by hammers. That's how he died. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, love that This old house that I'm buried under Thank you all so much for listening That's just the little insight into children of thunder for being such a dipshitty cult They have a really cool name. It's a cool name. Yeah, it comes from uh, got the a bible verse like the sons of thunder Okay, all right, all right There's actually better than children of thunder Yeah, it is but yeah, but he wanted big guy big guy dawn. He can't be you gotta be children. Yeah, yeah, of course

You can't be like you wouldn't want to get that wrong. Yeah, you can't be like the thunder boys Again thunder down under check it out in las vegas mail review. They're all australian and my god. Are they packing? All right. Well, thank you all so much for listening. Uh, we got soul plumber out there. Yep Let's call all six issues are out all six issues. Uh, marcus. No dogs has the replacements they're covering Replacements part two is out now. Absolutely. We're covering all the things you need to know about politics on top at and then we have We're spun brand new season two is back out there someplace underneath it is out there They are coming a very compelling case right now. I'm really excited. Honestly, and they did great work Absolutely, I've already seen couple of the series coming up and they they are really doing good work. I can't wait

Awesome. And uh, yeah, thanks to everyone who's listening to our serious shows. It's every monday at 4 p.m. PST And 7 p.m. EST that's been so fun. So thanks for ever calling in and uh, yeah, just keep on following all the things we do And uh, we had a fantastic time in boston. We better have we fucking better have better half We'll see on the road soon. Okay, everyone. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. No need the gustalations pain of me Give someone a hug. Hey, um, don't kill fuck people. Yeah. Yeah. Hugging more hugs. I guess Uh, maybe you shouldn't maybe not maybe more hugs isn't the message. Well, I think if you don't kill five people afterwards It's fine. Yeah, and don't you look a dog would you kill for me? I kill for you. Yeah, like if you asked me to yeah Absolutely not

Not even I'll tell you later This show is made possible by listeners like you Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listened to Go to last podcast network.com