Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 495: Leopold and Loeb Part I - The Übermensch

Episode Date: June 11, 2022

This week the boys delve into one of the most notorious tales in true crime history, the story of Leopold and Loeb, two wealthy students from the University of Chicago who formulated a haphazard plan that lead to the kidnapping & death of a 14-year-old boy in May 1924.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We got to get these doggies. They're out of the pan. We got to get them back in the pan. In the pan. We got to get them over to the Last Podcast Network Country Jamboree, June 18th, 2022 at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Tennessee. Come and check out all the shows that you love on the Last Podcast Network.

We'll be in front of you in our meat space, and we cannot wait to entertain you and have a great time. But for those of you that can't come in person, go to momenthouse.com slash LPOTL and buy your live stream ticket. Yes, you too can watch us perform our jangly country jamboree from the nudity of your couch. Absolutely fantastic. I hope you guys enjoy the show.

Thank you so much for your support. We are so excited to be at the OG Grand Old Opry. Hail yourselves. There's no place to escape to. This is the Lost Hot Tass. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that?

Oh, yeah! That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Can you be considered responsible for your actions if you are born looking like a rat? Well, that's a good point. I don't think you can be. If you're born into it, right? If you're born into the gay danger lifestyle. Sure. Because that's what these guys are, right? They're born into it. right, if you're born into the gay danger lifestyle. Sure. Because that's what these guys are, right? They're born into it.

They like it. All right. It's nature and nurture in there. Well, no one knows who we're talking about yet, but sure. And by gay danger, you don't mean that they are in danger because they're gay. You mean that they're just dangerous gay men. Oh, yeah. Oh, fantastic.

I can't wait to get into this story. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, everyone. I am Ben, hanging out with Marcus and hanging out with Henry. Sure. Well, we are. Sure you are. Well, we are. Yeah, but maybe we'd be a little bit more dangerous if we kissed.

Yeah, buddy, that would light the world on fire. Wouldn't it? That would really take down the internet. Didn't have that in my 2022 bingo card. You gotta stop saying that. All right, everyone. Today's topic, perhaps you've heard the names before but to be honest what's this all about leopold and lobe what's this all about i don't like this catchphrase what's this all about i

guess it's better than the bingo card catchphrase but yes i like what's this all about the people do the bingo card thing with without irony yeah man it's because they misunderstood the assignment we can't do this all right here we go leopold and lobe nathan leopold and richard lobe were two wealthy teenagers who kidnapped and killed a 14 year old boy in chicago in 1924 infamously for the thrill that they allegedly derived both from the murder itself and from how they were supposed to feel if they'd gotten away with it. Yeah, whatever, though, but they weren't good enough. No, definitely not.

Now, after they were swiftly caught for what they believed was going to be the perfect crime, Leopold and Loeb's trial became one of the earliest nationally covered trials of the century and eventually became one of America's most enduring true crime stories. Everyone knows the perfect crime is running for local office, getting elected, running for larger office, getting elected and then executing a bunch of innocent people. Perfect crime. Perfect crime. It's called being a governor of Texas. See, people at the time saw the Leopold and Loeb case as a sign that society was crumbling under the weight of the jazz age. Yeah. It's jazz. It was jazz?

This entire episode and this entire series is all about how jazz is bad. Oh, that's awesome. And it's functionally bad for society. Yeah, I just love the way that arts are always vilified in these cases. Yeah. bad for society yeah i just love the way that arts are always vilified in these cases yeah and it was the jazz that sounds like a bunch of cow like cartoon cows farting their way through a hallway i love that big tuba it's at st louis jay and that's it and then that was what's it called mass murder my knees were my knees were shaking

a little bit when you guys did that and everybody knows you can't trust a big man around anyone all right that sheriff told us is that i know that one sheriff who was very scared who i'm very happy no longer has a badge yeah put that in the context please well the 1920s were being seen by some as a time of newfound permissiveness over education and overindulgence when it came to kids. It was the over-education. Don't worry, 1924. We didn't do that. We didn't make that mistake again.

This is a story we've been looking, trying to cover for a long time. This is one of those that's been on the back burner for a minute, but it's kind of, I love these history episodes. These historical true crime episodes because you can really see how very little changes in society. Yeah. As it goes time and again, when people try pairing high profile murder with out of control youth, Leopold and Loeb were just plain dickheads. They were anomalies like Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris.

Eric Harris. Klebold and Harris, in fact, were in a way the elder millennial incarnations of Leopold and Loeb, which is probably part of the reason why we reference them so much on this show where Dylan and Klebold and Eric Harris are our touchstones for true crime. So was Leopold and Loeb the true crime touchstones for the early 20th century, for the first half of the 20th century, really. Also, we'll be selling our new product called Touchstones, and they will be in the shape of all three of our testicles. I didn't know about the new merch. Yeah, it's new. But I love the rollout. Yeah. But perhaps part of what made the Leopold and Loeb case such an enduring tale for almost a century now is the sexual element of the case. Although the murder they

committed was not sexual in nature at all. Okay, good. Rather, Leopold and Loeb were sexually involved with one another, although it would be a stretch to call their relationship romantic. The true nature of their affair was far more bizarre than simple love, and far more sociopathic.

Maybe more honest than love. Could be, Leopold and Loeb. In a way, they had an inner agreement. At least both psychopaths were on the same page. I mean, their last names kind of go together nice. It's a little romantic sounding. Leopold and Loeb. You actually, that might be one of those things you stumbled upon, which I do think that there's things to be, names.

Names that catch on. Branding. There's something about that actually does work for things like this and for people because maybe it's one of the explanations of why did these two fairly not, they're very dissimilar. I'm just saying. How did they get together? If it was Gorski and Schmutter, it wouldn't be the same story as Leopold and Loeb.

No, they'd be running a law firm in southern Wisconsin. Exactly. And having sex with each other. Oh, yeah. Now, to use the parlance of their time, the 1920s, Leopold and Loeb's relationship was more about the act of what they called, quote unquote, browning, which is a fairly self-explanatory term as far as I'm concerned. How so?

It's browning. Between two gay men, what would browning be? Two men shitting in a bowl and mixing it up together as a team. Or, then applying said browning to themselves to achieve empathy for other races. Uh-huh. Well, I don't know about

all that. I'm just going to assume anal sex. Yeah. It's anal sex. It's simple anal sex. It's browning. It's anal sex. Or at least it was more about browning for richard lobe who seemed to be the browner in this situation yes and and leopold was the brownish all right he was the brownie yeah he was the brownie yeah for nathan leopold who actually in that time he would not have been called a brownie he would have been called in his community a gonsol or perhaps a muzzler.

Alright. There's all slang? Yeah, this is all slang. I'm not making this shit up at all. This is 1920s slang. Browning is code for anal sex. A gonsol is code for bottom. Muzzler is one who likes going down on guys,

specifically guys who are quote-un unquote not gay. Yeah, there's a whole lot going on at the time. Fantastic. I love slang. Absolutely. Yeah. But for Nathan Leopold, the relationship had a degree of emotionality to the detriment

of both young men. But outside of the sexual nature of their relationship, what defined Leopold and Loeb more than anything else in the mind of the American public at the time and what made the murder they committed such a huge story was the fact that Leopold, Loeb and their victims were all wealthy Chicagoans of high status. I think that's part of the reason why we're so fascinated with these cases, because especially in America, I think we have this false equivocation that if you are rich, you will not get any of the quote unquote nurture or any of the things like you can't possibly be guilty of these types of crimes. But then if you look at somebody like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold that also came from fairly like having a stable home, upper middle class, well taken care of, quote unquote, no worries. Like it's the same thing.

Why do these guys become little fucking monsters yeah right but these guys were way way way beyond upper middle class i mean the leopold family was worth close to in today's cash they were worth close to a hundred million dollars yeah the victim's family was worth close to a hundred million the lobe family they were worth almost 200 million dollars in today's money. I can't even believe he's hanging out with those peasants. It's disgusting. He's got double their money. Oh, yeah.

Come on, Loeb. Therefore, rich victim plus rich perpetrators plus a good amount of browning equals one of the most infamous true crime stories in not only American, but world history. Okay. And there's something about their vibe, too. It's the same thing. It's like too it's the same thing it's like it's it's fucked up it's the way they look they are two characters within true crime of themselves you have leopold who's got the fucking he's the gross one and then you got the other one who's

the handsome one and then the leader and follower it's it's weird how this is a proto look at true crime couples that'll happen again and again. Question. Was this around Chicago? Was this around the World's Fair? No. This is like 60 years after the World's Fair. Not everything before 2000 in Chicago took place at the World's Fair. When did Michael Jordan?

When is Jordan? It's been a long time. That's about 60 years later. Fantastic. Fantastic question, Ben. It's just all you have in your mind about Chicago. It's like the Blues Brothers, deep dish pizza,

and the World's Fair. And that's all you know. That's it. But before we get to Leopold and Loeb, let's acknowledge our source. Today, we've got, for the thrill of it, Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder source today we've got for the thrill of it leopold lobe and the murder that shocked jazz age chicago by simon bates i'm gonna kill my fucking family this music's so good

i do love some good jazz i can see myself crunching some peanuts drinking a beer yeah that's country music it's jazz too yeah i mean if you watch the country music. It's jazz, too. Yeah. I mean, if you watch the country music documentary by Ken Burns, Wittmar Salas does make a lot of comparisons between the two, and I think he's correct. Yes, he does. And as you can see here, it's incredible how the violins, they are strummed. And in another way, wasn't bebop one of the most fascinating periods

of music history. That was a fantastic documentary. Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb were two polar opposite personalities. One was popular, good-looking, and sociable, while the other was sour-faced, openly narcissistic, and generally unpleasant to be around in just about every way possible. Two types of dudes that exist, and that's it. Okay.

The unpleasant one was Nathan Leopold, and it is with him that we will begin our series. Nathan Leopold Jr. was a third-generation American whose grandfather had immigrated from Germany to northern Michigan in 1846, where he started a shipping business providing provisions to mining towns. Man, it really was like they made up whole industries back then. Yeah, man. And people still do that. It's weird that you look at it because I don't know anything about business, like at all,

in any way, shape, or form. Well, it's a little scary for Marcus and I to hear. But it's weird that you can look at, like, he was doing the mining thing, right? And he's just like, I got to do something with all these rocks. And it was before he even had ships to like move the rocks.

They could build all of this stuff. Provisions for mining towns. He provided provisions. Food. Food. It's just weird how like business starts with the man

with the shovel and he goes, and he goes, ding, ding, ding. And then someone shows up and be like, you might need a barrel for this. And also, that guy's the millionaire.

And then the guy with the ding, ding, ding, ding, he makes nothing. He dies of black lung. No one ever hears, no one knows his name. I'm just happy you're taking my role on the show for once. Is this around the world's fair? Well, by the dawn of the 20th century some 50 years later the leopold family were among the wealthiest in all of chicago but nathan leopold jr was the disappointing third child of nathan leopold senior are you disappointed daddy i'm the son you've always wanted. Yeah, that's horrifying. No, listen, I came out perfect. I have an aerodynamic face.

I slid right out of the vagina. No marks left behind. Yeah, that's because you're the third one. This is why no child should ever get any money from their grandparents or parents, dare I say. Everybody should have to work. They should work for their grandparents in a stockyard. Absolutely. should have to work yeah they should work for their grandparents in a stockyard absolutely well from an early age nathan leopold was the target of quote relentless unforgiving bullies

partly this was because he was shy and studious and partly it was because he was always tiny he never got above five foot three 110 pounds wow but mostly, Nathan caught shit because Nathan's governess would escort him home from school day after day. Leopold looks like the character from the old cartoon Recess. Do you know what I'm talking about? There's a little rat face dude. Let me look this up. Recess.

Let me look this up. Yeah, look it up so the audience can see it. No, I'm looking it up. I'm looking it up. I'm looking it up. Oh, yes. He looks like the character Randall Weems. Weems from Recess. From Recess, right?

And he's got this, like, there's something about him where he is immediately unlikable. Sure. In any way, he is a, nobody likes him. Like, he shows up, people already got a read on him, being like, he's a nobody likes him like he shows up people already had got a read on him being like he's a weird nerd he is already very mean right he's very cutting with his words he's one of those kids when the kid who is already getting bullied at school sees him he's like yes yes i don't think i'm going to get bullied anymore i think i can actually bully that kid sometimes the bullies are correct and then i mean maybe though, because it seems like

they created a murderer. Oh, sure. But he was the follow along one, right? We'll get to that. But he kept getting picked up by his nanny, right? Well, the position of governess, it's not necessarily a nanny. It's somewhere in between. It doesn't really exist anymore. But back in

Victorian times, a governess acted as something between a nanny and a tutor it's kind of in between a governess would instruct the children of the wealthy in both fundamentals you know the three r's and they'd also teach them drawing they teach them they teach them how to play the piano they teach them how to dance they teach him in all of the ways of deportment and comfortment perhaps they teach them how to milk, because I'll tell you one thing, when I think of a governess, I think of a big old butt, big old boobies.

I mean, actually. Hey, I need to learn how to bathe. And then she's like, oh, again. These are all, this is your own research. Yeah. And I really, I want to say thank you so much to what Kissel has brought to the governess research part of today's episode.

He's been talking about it. He said he research governesses all night. Absolutely. Actually, I do kind of want to go home and type in governess to my documentary website that has all of my favorite documentaries and see what comes up. Victorian governess. It's all young son from home needs milking. Young son home from college needs milking.

That's like all it is. I was just trying to buy a hamster and you should have seen the site it brought me to. Well, a governess's job was different for ladies than it was for men. With ladies, a governess was there to give them the skills to attract a suitor in a crowded marriage market. You know, like maybe one girl is like Lady Mary knows how to play the piano, but Lady Edith doesn't know how to play the piano. And Lady Edith is not anywhere near as charming as Lady Mary. So Lady Mary has the advantage and her governess, therefore, wins the game. If you want a proper husband, the first thing you'll have to do is learn how to speak on elden ring for almost three hours at a time and then oh you must have a pliable pliable face oh we're just gonna have to

i'm going to recommend and i don't mean this is an insult to you my sweet sweet charge we're going to have to kill you and start again. We'll knew one of you. Well, a governess, because of this, a governess usually stayed with a girl well into her teenage years. You know, not always, but you know, there was definitely a cutoff point,

but hopefully, you know, the girl gets pawned away by 16, 17. You don't got to worry about her no more. The governess moves on to the next girl. Well, because then they raise it up to marrying age and then you hand it to a new property owner, her new husband. Yeah, or you hand her over to a new property owner, her new husband. Yeah.

Or you hand her over to a lady's maid. Goes from governess to lady's maid. I've been watching a lot of Downton Abbey. I know how this shit works out. And I know it's sexist against women, but honestly, I would love this. If you just had raised me up with a governor, like a big man who taught me about lifting weights and getting in there looking like joe rogan of 14 years old you know i mean like shaved head like little fucking four feet wide like you know four feet tall like a square but at the same time you just raised me up until you gave me to a fucking mommy wife that's what glenn maxwell's in jail for right now i know i don't think that this is a very healthy form of love i'm just thinking if you

did it opposite for a willing boy you you'd be awesome. Yeah, true. But with a boy, speaking of which, here's what they did with a boy. With a boy, a governess, usually out the door by the time the kid turned eight years old. It was weird for a governess to be there past the age of eight because at the age of eight, that's when the boy is sent to school.

They've been prepared for school this whole time. They get sent to a boy's school, but when it came to Nathan, his governess was there, large and in charge, until Leopold went to college. He was purposely infantilized, Nathan Leopold. And it never really escaped him. He always was kind of like, that's how I view him as truly an ever-present evil little boy where he really could not escape this this kind of like he was just he was mommy too hard yeah because you know how they say that like some children are just naturally sociopathic and they eventually learn emotions you know and there's and nathan leopold

was infantilized where he was just a sociopathic child and just continued to be a sociopathic child where he really couldn't figure he couldn't figure out the difference between fantasy and reality. He never put himself in the real world. But his governess's name was Mathilda Wants. She was nicknamed Sweetie. And by reports, she was an attractive. Okay, Ben, I'm about to fucking bone you up, bro. I ain't fucking lying here.

I ain't fucking lying. Mathilda Wants her feet rubbed again. Mathilda Wants her feet rubbed again. but ben i'm about to bone you up bro i ain't fucking lying this is unironically one of the hotter descriptions in true crime except for the molesting yeah obviously well i mean let's not give away the game just yet but mathilda wants aka sweetie was an attractive strong-willed german immigrant with a thick accent and a flirtatious manner she's got a lap for stein oh my goodness so flirtatious was she in fact that she allegedly had sex with nathan's older brother when he was 17 and she had sex with Nathan himself when he was just 12 it's a little young I'm gonna say that it's a little young and also Nathan was gay oh yeah it's rumor it is rumor that he was gay oh that she oh that no I did that okay that she slept with him that's what he molested molested it wasested. It was a rumor, but still at the same time, she was real close, real close with him.

And for Nathan's older brother, 17 at the time period, if you add aid inflation since the 1920s, he was 45 years old and he really needed to be working. He should have been having sex with his nanny. having sex with his nanny. But since Nathan's mother was sickly and bedridden, his father too occupied with the family business, and his brothers completely uninterested

in Nathan's life, Nathan's only constant was his oversexed, child-molesting governess. Yeah, and that's when I come and I play with you little Frankfurter. Oh, man.

You want me to do it? I'm not trying to be too obvious about it, but I'm just so horny for a child. I thought it was going to be a lot more fun than this, man. Yeah, I think, you know, because you decided to sexualize me. No, I didn't.

You said, oof, look at that big German mistress. Oh, I want to sleep with her. I'm a full grown man. But guess what? No, I save her for children. That's horrible. Yeah. It's bad.

But you drove me to it. I did. Your sexualization of your eyeballs. No, I didn't do that. Now, Nathan had been known at the Harvard School for Boys as an eccentric loner. But surprisingly, what finally endeared him to the other kids was his interest in ornithology, particularly his collection of stuffed birds that he'd killed himself. This is the thing.

He really found himself in this bird club, and I don't know why that made him cool, but there was something about it. He had the most stuffed birds, and he was the best at finding the birds and killing the birds and then saying, hey, look, here's this bird that you can look at up close. I got a grackle. Check out my grackle. See my grackle? I crucified him.

He's forever petrified in mid-flight i mean it's something it's cool at least he's not just the shy nerdy kid at this point at least he has some kind of arts and crafts background yes i freeze things that are free cool i break their spines and i put some in the little cages for heaven you know what buddy at least you have a personality now yeah yeah and you know man i don't see any much of it well okay there's some difference but there's not much of a difference between nathan leopold stuffed bird collection and jeffrey dahmer's rogue kill shack like it's the same fucking thing it's the same concept at least i mean the method of storage is different and jeffrey dahmer's definitely smelled much worse but hey it's a difference between upper and middle

class sensibilities it seemed like a respectable hobby at the time period this idea of i don't know about the killing them and stuffing them like it does seem to be like i thought ornithology was all about like watching them i thought ornithology was all about just like knowing a lot about popcorn kernels i'm trying to i'm trying to backwardsly i'm trying to figure out how to put that back together i know orville reckenbacher oh yeah that definitely starts with or red and there's something with that but it's not even trying to backwardsly... I'm trying to figure out how to put that back together. Orville Reckenbacher. It definitely starts with Orville Reckenbacher. There's something with that, but it's not even... Orville. I don't know.

I don't think he's had a stroke. I'll take him to the hospital. No, no. I don't want to go to the hospital. I'm not going to the hospital. I'm just going to die in bed. Alright. Great. Well, I mean, going back to ornithology, it's more of the Teddy Roosevelt style of conservation where you go out, you kill it, you stuff it. I got him!

Teddy Roosevelt had a high voice. He did. Yes. Yes, it's unique. No. Well, the thing about Nathan Leopold is that he was at the very least book smart. And by the age of 15, he'd earned enough credits to skip his senior year. So many that he attended the fucking University of Chicago

at 15 years of age. Oh God, that's also a nightmare. That's way too young for college. Yep. And that's where he met another kid who'd also been smart enough to skip ahead. That kid was Nathan's future partner in murder, Richard Loeb.

Now, while the Leopold family was amongst the richest in Chicago, the Loebs were nearing the status of Chicago royalty. Richard's father was the vice president of Sears Roebuck, which was one of America's first retail giants and the Sears behind Sears Tower in Chicago. Wow. Yeah, they like big things. It's sad. Sears is all gone now. There's a couple of Sears still out there. Really? I looked it up.

There's a couple. I mean, it was a real bad idea for them to buy Kmart in the early 2000s. But I love those huge bras they got there. Oh, yeah. I remember that. But since Richard Loeb's father effectively ran Sears Roebuck, and since Richard Loeb's mother didn ran Sears Roebuck, and since Richard Loeb's mother didn't particularly care for child

rearing, Loeb's upbringing was also entrusted to his governess. Although Loeb's governess negatively influenced Richard in an entirely different way. It's almost like Richard's parents, the only hear what they want to. Uh-oh.

Lisa. I like it. I love Lisa Loeb. Yeah. Well, instead of molesting him, Richard's governess named Emily put enormous amounts of pressure on Richard Loeb to be the best. You gotta be the best. You always gotta study. You gotta read as much as possible. Well, that's a hell of a lot better than the other option.

Yeah, sucking his dick. That's a hell of a lot better than the other option. Yeah, sucking his dick. But it instilled in Richard this weird sense of superiority that I suppose he felt was necessary to measure up to his governess's standards. It's odd, but it's there. And it's I mean, it's sociopathy mixed with these kind of high standards where she's like, you're the best. Why aren't you being the best? Why aren't you acting like the best?

You got to be the best in order to fucking beat the rest of these rich assholes. Well, I think Leopold getting molested by the nanny actually falls outside of the fringe. Well, this sounds like way more normal rich kid driving behavior. Yeah, Ric Flair. She's watching him sit around. Like, she's doing the thing where I can kind of see, you know, you take her perspective. You see this rich kid hanging around. You know he's going to take over one of the biggest department store like a massive family lineage huge old money he's going to take on this thing and yeah man if he's sitting around playing jacks or listening to trombone i don't

know what kids in the 1910s did for fun but something like that you'd be like no man you should be reading books yeah you need to work now because eventually you're going to sit in office and mostly you're going to sit in an office and mostly you're going to be like yeah we need more suspenders that's what your whole life is going to be you're going to sit behind a giant mahogany desk and go like yeah yeah more suspenders less gloves now we get up to gloves less suspenders that's business you know at one point sears roebuck was one percent of america's entire economy damn now look at those statistics but if you want something that's even more disturbing walmart is now 2.4 percent of america's entire

economy now look at those statistics do you remember when walmart came out with that that commercial series so it's been like it's really tough for the small business owner it is yeah i saw the ceo of walmart crying on cnbc because he can't compete with amazon and it was so sweet the tears i licked the tears yeah i'll lick those sweet sweet big fucking fat walmart tears yeah and he was lying because walmart's income is twice that of amazon so fuck anyway anyway i look at the department stores i looked at the department stores for a fair amount yesterday i don't know why i got to that hole but i was curious okay but regardless of the origin richard's own inflated sense of self-worth soon collided with an interest in true crime stories and detective mysteries you're getting

into this but my thing is why true crime now why now why true crime now i mean it is a it's a question that i've been asking myself for the last five to seven to ten to twenty to thirty. Twelve to twenty to thirty to forty to sixty to a hundred years. Four hundred years. Why true crime now? Why true crime now? Yeah. But before long, Loeb was identifying more with the Moriartys of the world than the Sherlock's.

Loeb came to believe that criminals were, quote quote not in the common run of humanity and just like any other unimaginative killer who wants to take a shortcut to what he thinks is greatness lobe began to think that the way to set himself apart from the common run was to become a master criminal now this is he was around the age of, 16 years old. Before. Yeah. I mean, before that, 13, 14, he was rolling up. Yeah. Like these are childish fantasies, obviously. Yeah. Like this idea that if you are if I get it, it does seem to be glamorous to a young person, the attention that one gets from being a criminal. But his fantasy really involved the, it's really the him versus the world thing. It's the idea that nobody can control me.

I am this incredible, crystalline, unique intelligence that can manipulate people. But then there's also a fetishizing of the bring down, of getting arrested. Because he's talking about like,

his real fantasy is to him beaten up by guards we'll get into that we'll get into his real fantasy or not his real fantasy but the other side of his fantasy there are definitely two sides to richard loeb's fucking boner coin sounds like a bit of a persecution complex very much so yeah well loeb's supposed superiority was only emboldened by both his popularity and the fact that he graduated from high school when he was just 14. Yeah, not only I graduated from high school, but I can also tittle and wink. Whoa! I can do both.

You can tiddly and wink? And guess what? I can sing your favorite song. It's easy for me to do. I know how to do jazz with my mouth. All right. That is my favorite song. My knees are crackling. I don't even need a photograph. Wow. But according to Loeb, when he went off to college at the University of Chicago and his governess was let go, something, quote unquote, broke loose.

Uh-oh. And not too long after, Richard Loeb met Nathan Leopold. Now, on the surface, it would seem like these two teenagers wouldn't have anything in common. Richard Loeb was sociable, charming, and funny, while Nathan was disdainful, arrogant, and pompous. One fellow student, the very wealthy-sounding Arnold Marmont, said that Nathan... It's Arnold Marmont! I actually don't know if Arnold Marmot sounds very well. That's why my name is Arnold Marmot.

Okay. Well, he said that Nathan would find a way to monopolize any conversation no matter what was being talked about. Because Nathan thought he was mentally superior to everyone. Therefore, his opinions were the only valuable ones that should be heard. It sounds like he believes that he's a man that should be over everyone else. He sounds like one of those comedians that hang out in the booth at the comedy

cellar. Oh yeah, you better be careful because you'll get razzed. And if you order chicken tenders, they will call you a child molester. They razz. They razz you. But perhaps it was this confidence in his own mental abilities that attracted Richard Loeb to Nathan

Leopold additionally it didn't hurt that both boys had come to college at 14 years well one of them was 14 Loeb was 14 Leopold was 15 but either way you slice it this was long before they had the maturity to handle college.

In this, they're similar to the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, who went to Harvard at 14. It doesn't seem to really help anybody to go to college this early. It seems really bad. Well, it seems like just because you're book smart doesn't mean your brain's all there yet socially. So just, I don't know, pump the brakes, enjoy high school.

I really do think that I probably should have listened to my high school philosophy teacher and have moved to New York when I was 18 to like be an actor or whatever. But honestly, it was nice to go to college because that's how I made my friends. Exactly. And I grew up a little bit before going to just get murdered and left in the streets of New York City at 18 years old. Like, how's everybody?

How's everybody doing? Like off of the train. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. If you hadn't gone to college, you wouldn't be doing this show right now. The show wouldn't exist. And you may have ended up back in Orlando in that Universal Studios Blues Brothers.

That would have been cool. I got that job. I was supposed to be Juliet, Jake. Oh. What if I'd be like on Andrew Cuomo's staff? You think that's where I'd be? Yeah, it's possible. You have a Machiavellian-like sensibility.

Yeah. But instead of finding themselves being destroyed by an MKUltra experiment like Ted Kaczynski was, Leopold and Loeb each found a sociopath of a like mind. I like you. Can you also do jazz music with your mouth? Yes, I can. My knees are crackling now i feel like we're at a concert that's great well one definite interest that the boys shared was that nathan was gay and richard was at the very least bisexual one could argue though that richard lobe wasn't really much of

anything when it came to sex and love. He later claimed to be indifferent to sex, marking it down as something that he could easily get along without. Conversely, it also wasn't a big deal to do it with either a man or a woman. So when Nathan Leopold pressed Richard Loeb for sex, Richard figured, why refuse if it mattered so little one way or the other? That's how you feel about food, Marcus. Yeah, seriously. Wow.

Yeah, I also think, you know, like prior to 18, you know, if everybody's on board, right? What, you want to finish your thought? I don't know. Absolutely. I actually don't know what my thought was. I mean, amongst the wealthy, you know, especially amongst the English, having a little bit of a dalliance at the boys' school was seen as no big deal. Yeah, sometimes you gotta do

an upside-down kiss. Oh, right. With your best friends. That's what a lot of friends do. And so, starting in 1920, Leopold and Loeb started fooling around on the regular.

And by spring of 1921, Nathan Leopold had fallen in a kind of love with Richard Loeb and was willing to do just about anything Richard wanted. Well, love with Richard Loeb and was willing to do just about anything Richard wanted. I think Richard Richard Loeb also got really obsessed with the idea of doing anything that was anti-society or anti that was regular at the quote unquote regular at the time.

So I feel like there's a little bit of him, his drive, like Leopold was like truly falling in love with Richard, right? Like he was sort of in so far as much as he could fall, he could fall in love. But I do think it's mostly just because it's another way to tell polite society to go fuck yourself being like, and I'm gay. Yeah. All right.

There you go. Well, I would argue with that because when the very first time that Richard Loeb was faced with that was faced with like, Hey, you got to stop being gay or else you're going to be ostracized. He fucking folded. And me. Oh yeah. yeah. Because again, he has no strong attachment to anything. Yeah, that's true. But it is important to note that Nathan Leopold was by no means

forced to do anything, nor could it be said that Leopold was spellbound by a stronger personality. Instead, both teenagers had rich and intricate fantasy lives that locked together perfectly to create a sociopathic feedback loop that resulted in murder. They found their person. Yeah, sure. I found my slit for my slot. Oh, isn't that nice? That's their love language. I also wonder if they, like, it's weird because their crime in many ways reminds me of a filet-a-deu more than anything else. A filet-a-deu?

A filet-a-deu. Is that like a fondue type thing? We covered this. We covered this before. It's the idea of like a two-person cult. Yeah, but like we did with the sisters, the Erickson sisters. Yes. Right, right.

Like we did with the sisters, the Erickson sisters. Yes. Right. Right. Like they, they're really, the key is the fantasy life lining up because there's something about being able to say out loud to somebody else, I have these dark thoughts and the other person being like, not only do I have dark thoughts, but I want to be the Lord of dark thoughts. Like I want to be, I want to make dark, dark shit. I want to be the lord of dark thoughts. Like I want to be, I want to make dark, dark shit.

I want to be a criminal. I want to be a professional criminal. And you want to suck a criminal's dick. That's incredible. Like it really works out. We're like, now we're going to hang out. And they,

then they're collective together, ruminating about doing shit together, like starting to escalate, like really trying to say, fuck you to society. It's weird. I feel like in a way, it's almost like their fantasy world

became more real than their reality. Yeah. You can believe me. And we do, don't we, Kissel? Yes, you do. Because we each have perfect complementary spice. Marcus has the dirt. Kissel shits as soon as he comes into the studio.

Yep. And me, I'm always exactly about six minutes late just to show you I'm easygoing. Absolutely. French. Fly from your grave. A roast as dark as the night. Perfect for fueling the cryptid research and mad

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Now, Richard didn't immediately rocket towards murder when he broke loose, as he put it. Richard Loeb's climb towards the worst crime in existence, child murder, started in the pettiest of ways. At the age of 15,

Richard Loeb devised a system for cheat-knit cards that required Nathan Leopold as a partner. He has a king. Wow, what a great system. He has a king. There, I can see it. This is a fan. We're so smart.

Wow. Well, this was not to make money because both Leopold and Loeb received generous allowances. Instead, this was just for the thrill of successfully fooling their friends, and most importantly, doing it without getting caught. If I touch the lamp, he has a jack. Fantastic. You're saying it in front of him. This is so smart. See, while some criminals commit crimes specifically for the attention,

Leopold and Loeb wanted no attention whatsoever, because notoriety was for peasants. Oh. Well, he liked their own inner circle knowing it. Yeah. Well, I mean, that inner circle being just those two. But after all, if they were truly as superior as they believed themselves to be,

then it follows that the opinions of others wouldn't matter at all. Therefore, the only people they had to impress was themselves. And at the very least, you got to give them credit for sticking to their principles no matter how idiotic they might be might be in it would it be inappropriate to call them the romeo and michelle of true crime well i'm not quite sure although that was a very funny film very very funny also the inner circle fantastic sexual position this governess work he did

and i saw he brought a big vanilla folder. And like, I went to open it and it was stuck together. I don't even know how he gets to his research material. I know it's pretty unbelievable. But really, the thrill of committing crimes and escaping detection was more Richard Loeb's thing. For Nathan Leopold's part, while he did certainly enjoy making Richard happy,

the crimes themselves didn't give him the same jolt that they gave Loeb. To put it into domestic terms, crime was Richard's hobby, his passion, and Nathan was simply going along with an activity that he kind of sort of enjoyed so as to make his new romantic conquest happy, to have something to share.

Okay. It's a bad idea in any relationship. If you don't love Renaissance fairs, don't pretend like you love Renaissance fairs in the first three months of your relationship because six months later or a couple of years later when you're sick of Renaissance fairs. You're a Ren Faire person now. Yeah. You're a Ren Faire person and it's going to cause a big fracture.

Seems highly specific. There's some things you can't worry about. But also, if 60% of you can handle the Ren Faire and you know your partner loves it, have a little fun with the Ren Faire. That's called your secret like Ren Faire so you don't want to let anybody else know. If you're at 60% into Ren Faire, Ren Faires are, they can be divisive. They sound like a bunch of fun. You eat a bunch of turkey legs, drink some mead.

Again, you could be nudged into Ren Faires. I adore Ren Faires. We have a plan to go to rent fairs later on this summer we're very much looking forward to it okay but something like this it's really about they wanted the audience and then it's about their inner audience it really is about that it's about the hangout man that's why leopold's there it's about the fucking brown all right well for example as far as how leopold went along with Loeb's crimes, on nights when Richard would

have too much to drink, Nathan would follow Richard's lead and park his car on a deserted street someplace close to campus. Then Richard would throw bricks through car windows and run back to Nathan who would quickly speed away. Did you see what I did? Yeah, but it was pretty sweet. It was so naughty what I just did.

It was pretty naughty, dude. Is it time to maybe now that we're driving around we could take a quick exit to Browntown? Oh my goodness. Have fun with it. Alright, well just give me 15 minutes, okay? Because I was just kind of enjoying the glow of smashing all these windows. Yeah, of course. It's something

to do as a teen. You know, this ain't the craziest behavior from a couple of 15-year-old kids. But to them it was the most exciting most dark dangerous shit in the world maybe they were just bored yeah i mean it's part of it i mean that's that's kind of my point is that from brick throwing you know leopold and lobe graduated to car theft or really joyriding that escalated to smashing storefront windows which then escalated further to arson. And again, between the three of us, we probably committed all of these crimes as teenagers. If I had to guess, I know

I'm certainly the arsonist here. I know that. I'll smash a window. Really, Ben? I pegged you as the joyrider, and Henry is the vandal. I'm the joyrider. You can do both. That's interchangeable. I think the main crime is the one that you admitted to, Marcus. That is a crime that you said.

You said fun things to us. Because you can just call a safe flight and be like, the kid's got into my car again. But with yours, my house is burnt down. I never burn down a house. I don't know why you... You know what? I got caught for my arson. So I'm not admitting to a crime that they're still searching

for suspects. You're legal arsonist. Oh yeah, but what about the old mcclune man's house no i didn't i did not i never burned down anyone's house never never never he's looking up and to the left oh he says i don't know if he's i'm looking straight into this fucking zoom camera i am looking straight at both of you focused on looking yeah now it seems to be a performative act right never burned down any houses. Fantastic. But for us, these crimes were about boredom.

You know, I set that dumpster on fire because I was bored. You know, you guys threw bricks through windows because you were bored. I didn't throw bricks through window. We did do the thing where you would. Oh, well, let's move on. I killed Rodney McCulty because he tried to tell my teacher that i was going to cheat on the uh six months exam in algebra one and he had to go so that's murder okay no no no no it's getting an obstacle out of the way well for leap olden lobe these crimes were feeding dark fantasies

and with each crime the pair committed without capture the the more intricate Richard's fantasy life in particular became. Richard Lowe began to think of himself as a master criminal whose ingenuity and cleverness could conceivably command the respect of Chicago's criminal underworld. If you ever have to ask the question to yourself, you're like, do you think Al Capone would like me? I don't think that he would. This is like getting a fucking bunt to first base in Little League

and expecting a congratulations call from Ken Griffey Jr. It's not going to happen. Well, you get it if you're one of those kids with cancer. Then you get it. Then Ken Griffey Jr. called you all the fucking time. There was just a fantastic story about a child with cancer, and he did request a home run be hit, and indeed a home run was hit. That's so much pressure to put on.

The baseball player did it. Because then next thing you know, that dude, he gets pulled in for, they're looking at him for roids. Next thing you know, your fun little cancer home run has an asterisk next to it, and then no one can talk to Mark McGuire ever again.

Isn't that sad? But Richard's fantasies went far beyond just an attaboy from Al Capone. Richard Loeb would also fantasize about being caught, but with a twist. After being imprisoned, he would be whipped and beaten by male prison guards. Everyone would be half naked.

But a crowd of spectators, mostly young girls, would look on with both admiration and pity. He's so dark. He's a admiration and pity he's so dark he's a little sexy he's so dark wow you're the biggest girl i've ever seen yep that's why i'm here he's pretty sexy you should go free him you giant go free him get him from his cup spend the bars i would i will hold on let me watch him get whipped a little bit more i'm having a big one Bend the bars. I would. I will. Hold on. Let me watch him get whipped a little bit more. I'm having a big one.

Wow, your clit is huge. Yeah, it's been like that. Wow. Yeah. Yeesh. Yeah, you should see it when i'm really horny wow your whole vagina is so filled out yeah yeah it's pretty big it's a pretty big one i'm just happy to be here

well nathan leopold on the other hand he was fulfilling a different fantasy entirely with this crime spree while lobe got off on getting away with crimes leopold got off on serving lobe see since nathan was around eight years old his strongest fantasy involved himself in the role of a slave to a king. Yeah, and this is sort of like the Unforgiven 2 video by Metallica, but with a lot more browning. Okay, but again, I mean, this is a yin and a yang. They're coming together here. Well, in this fantasy, Nathan Leopold

was handsome, intelligent, and strong. The strongest man in the world, in fact. So big and round but he would still be a slave who had earned the gratitude of the king by saving the king's life somehow cool kicking a boar in the head however whatever you gotta do to save the king stop him from eating uh poisoned grapes yeah kill the Kill the queen. Whatever it takes. But even though the king had offered Nathan the slave his freedom because he had committed such a heroic deed, whatever that deed might be, Nathan Leopold would always choose to remain a slave to protect the king and save him from his enemies. In other words, Nathan the slave would be the king's number one guy. You are my number one guy.

This kind of reminds me of the time when the recession hit in 2008 and I had a corporate job and I was working at his office and then they offered me. They were like, hey, listen, we know you want to be a comedian and stuff. And they're like, but what if instead of you being an AA, we pay for you to get a finance degree and then you can be promoted within the company and make more money and be higher up and i said i'm a comedian what if i just stay your assistant forever and then they fired me two days later they fired me so hard as they should have yeah i did not know though i thought it would be relief to them to say like no i'll stay a slave right i'll just stay here all right you know i used to fantasize when i was real big as opposed to now which i'm kind of big but i'm also really big i used to fantasize about jumping on your grenade and saving the whole class yeah and it also

reminds me of like the i used to have a fantasy as a little boy of like your like funeral like while the goo goo dolls played where you're like do you want to see me and think about yeah now danielle like suzuki she will fucking cry now knowing that i'm fucking dead at 11 but she won't care actually she wouldn't care she wouldn't she wouldn't even remember you now she'd weep isn't that something just wanted to go on the road bro that's all i wanted to do wow you always wanted to hitchhike huh no i want, I wanted to drive, you know? Like fucking Kerouac, man. Like, just fucking go on the road.

You can do that now. The Subaru Outback is going to be one of the best miles per gallon of any car possible. It really does, but now I have responsibilities. I can't do that. That sucks, bro. Yeah, bro. Yeah. It sucks, dude.

Well, in another version of Nathan Leopold's slave fantasies, the king would find Nathan as a young boy beaten and abused by slavers. But the king would rescue Nathan. And because Nathan was so much the cat's meow, the king would make him a member of the royal household. In turn, Nathan would grow up and go on to own slaves of his own who would be branded with a crown on the inner calf of their leg to signify themselves as Nathan's property. A little Keith Raniere there. Yes, yes.

And these might, I'm not saying I have this fantasy. I'm saying every tiny person has this fantasy. Right. It is absolutely a tiny man's fantasy. It's a tiny man's fantasy, but you know, you got to let them have it. You know what I mean? Because you got to let them have it because it has to be somewhere for them. It can man's fantasy. It's a tiny man's fantasy, but you know, you gotta let them have it. You know what I mean? Because you gotta let them have it because it has to be somewhere for them. It can be a fantasy. It has to remain a fantasy.

But that's the thing. As Richard and Nathan's relationship grew, and as they committed more crimes together, no matter how petty, the more their two fantasy lives became intertwined. The criminal king and the slave who did his bidding. I feel like it was a part of their browning sequence

would be talking about this fantasy. That they would talk about this because he would prop up Richard. Like he would literally say like, you're my king, I'll be your slave, blah blah blah, we're gonna do this together. And Richard's like, are we done with browning? Can I be the merchant?

We're like, where'd you come from we're that huge i'm just here to watch now i don't think that nathan or richard would have ever committed murder without the other you know it's a lot like carla hamilca and paul bernardo well i think paul i think paul bernardo probably would have murdered without because he was already the scarborough rapist well that's the thing i think it's possible but not probable, that Paul Bernardo might never have escalated from serial rape to serial murder. I think Paul Bernardo would have had to have

accidentally killed someone. If he would have accidentally killed someone in the commission of a rape, then yes, he would have become a serial murderer. Did the thing where he made it so the murder was inevitable, quote unquote. Exactly. But I don't think Carla Molka would have ever.

She wouldn't have committed even one murder, much less three without Paul Bernardo. And similarly, Richard Loeb, as a good looking sociopath, would have undoubtedly done terrible things in his life, most likely in the corporate world working for Sears Roebuck. But he probably wouldn't have murdered anyone without Loeb's encouragement. I mean, who put the chainsaws at Sears? Yeah. What psychopath at Sears was like, we need hammers. People need hammers. We need fucking hammers.

Most people use hammers for nailing. I want a nail gun. Because you have to build a house with it. Oh, not everything is murdering people. You could do nerd shit with it. It's not nerdy to build a house. This old house. You ever see that show?

Well, Nathan Leopold, meanwhile, he would have been a different type of non-homicidal sociopath altogether. He would have been the sort of person who ruins the day of any person they come into contact with and makes everyone in their personal lives permanently fucking miserable. He's psychic vampire. Yeah, that is. That's probably what he would have been had he not met Richard Loeb. But as it was, the Leopold and Loeb partnership nearly broke up in 1921.

That year, Richard transferred to the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and Nathan, desperate to keep a hold of his king, transferred as well. Oh. But shortly after Nathan Leopold's arrival, he caught scarlet fever, then had to return to Chicago for his mother's funeral. By the

time he returned to Richard Loeb, Nathan found that his lover had joined a fraternity who had told Richard that he wouldn't be welcome if he continued to let that creepy weird dude with the stuffed birds blow him all the time. What? I thought that was how you get into the fraternity. No, you gotta suck that guy's dick.

Oh, my God. Well, no, you don't suck dick in the fraternity. You eat cum. It's the ooky-kooky thing. Yeah, you eat cum. You eat a whole bunch of different guys' cum. So that's the thing. You don't know who's cum.

You've eaten everyone's cum, so you've kind of eaten no one's cum. No, you've eaten everyone's. That's not true. That is math someone sold you on, Marcus, because it is everyone's company. You sure may have another. It's a lot of nudity. It's a lot of nudity. They're all blowing each other.

Well, they like looking at penises. It's how men bond. I was never into it. I like to play with the girls. Yeah. And so for a couple of years, Leopold and Loeb separated. Nathan transferred back to Chicago in the fall of 1923. But when Loeb returned to Chicago as well for graduate

school, they reconnected at the age of 18 and renewed both their friendship and their sexual escapades. For some reason I kind of feel like a failure. They're in grad school at 18? I mean, it's different. Or it's a community college. They were also the Skyons of Chicago. Like, these

are people that are, they move in different circles that we would never see. These circles still exist, right? Yeah. They get kind of, they get very special treatment, Kissel, don't worry. I know. But do you think that when they got back together, it's basically because Richard Loeb was already becoming a burnout? Like, in his years in Ann Arbor, he became an irresponsible drunk. He was really, really out of control.

His drinking became really crazy. It's Michigan. But he was one of those dudes who had nothing but potential and all the money in the world. He could explore any avenue that he wanted. And by then, he kind of realized it and just sat back and would party all the time

and do the thing that a lot of rich kids do that are an obama child they literally like hang out get hammered sit around all day and they knew that but i think that there was something when he came back and met leopold again where he's like he this is what i need i needed my slave yes indeed needed my slave. Ah, yes, indeed. I needed my slave. That's how I can be important. Yeah. And also, in the intervening years, Nathan Leopold had started to inch closer towards Richard Loeb's ideas of superiority, specifically after Leopold discovered and wildly misinterpreted the words of Friedrich Nietzsche and the concept of the Übermensch. Now, I tried. I read a lot of stuff i saw some memes involving i listened to some videos trying to explain because i know about nichi nachi nichos nicho i'm calling nachos i'm calling them fucking nachos ray nitschke linebacker for the green mr

freddy nachos had a lot of ideas right i kind of view him now and this might be entirely wrong and i can't wait to be read to filth but maybe i am i don't know maybe i'm slightly correct he reminds me a little bit of an alistair crowley where on one surface on a surface level it's kind of easy to misinterpret his viewpoints because it's very easy because it's done in aphorisms it's done in very like catchy you know like whatever kills you whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger the will to power like there's certain things that you say that are catch phrases that can be used very easily by people with bad purposes but also like it's about how you unpack it like it's really

about looking in deeper past the first level and understand that Freddie Nachos was way more of a poet and a fucking horse lover. Like, too much. Kind of a pussy. Okay, so the horse story, it's just, okay, so Nietzsche, like in his 30s or 40s, he started to lose his mind just a little bit. And one day he saw a horse being beat on the street. And so he ran up to the horse and he hugged the horse. And according to legend said, forgive me, mother. And he was never the same after that and barely spoke and was just half an invalid.

So just remember that when you're trying to court a girl and you're like, I know Frederick Nietzsche. And it'll be like the linebacker for the Green Bay Packers. I don't think Freddie Nachos has turned on a woman once, except for his sister, because then you find out that that was why he got co-opted by the Nazis, because she brought all of these things over to the Nazis. Yeah, she misinterpreted everything. Now, Nietzsche's Ubermensch has been co-opted by everyone

from Carl Jung to, of course, the Nazis. But what's interesting is that Nietzsche's ubermensch has been co-opted by everyone from Carl Jung to, of course, the Nazis. But what's interesting is that Nietzsche himself never actually defined what the ubermensch was. And as Henry said, it was actually his sister who twisted his words to fit all of the Nazi bullshit. Nietzsche would not have been happy. But for Nietzsche, one of the theories, and again, this is one of the theories because we're not fucking philosophy majors. My wife is. She tried explaining it to me. I didn't understand it. She also, because that was the thing. She was trying to explain.

And we're all like... And all we paid attention to was the fucking horse. That's all we... That's all I learned. All I learned was that he liked the horse once too much to write anymore. That's interesting. And then, but yeah, Freddie Nachos is fucking, he's complex. And I actually don't know what his stuff, I don't know. I don't fucking know, dude. Who knows? According to one of the theories, more it's interesting and then but yeah freddy nachos is fucking he's complex and i actually don't know if what his stuff i don't know i'm fucking noted who knows according to one of the

theories the ubermensch was more of a vision than a theory mentioned in the prologue to his work of philosophical fiction thus spake zarathustra nietzsche wrote quote the ubermensch shall be the meaning of the earth i entreat my brethren, remain true to the earth and do not believe those who speak to you of supraterrestrial hopes. Behold, I teach you the Ubermensch. He is this lightning. He is this madness. Behold, I am the prophets of the lightning, and a

heavy drop from the cloud. But this lightning is called Uber Mench. Did you hear Taco Bell's bringing back the Mexican pizza? But no, he's, the Uber Mench is more of like this idea,

it's the idea of the person with the, this quote unquote person, this theory of the person with the this this quote-unquote person with this this theory of a person has a higher mentality than others and then they are then which is in a way but i don't know whether or not this is true or not they are then separate from quote-unquote morality but because their goals are so high whatever they have to do to reach those goals is chill i believe that that is the that is one of the layman dumb shit explanations of the ubermensch theory that then got ran too far because it was only a fraction of the shit that freddie nachos was even talking about yeah also ubermensch fantastic new uh car share. You get it there.

It's his train car. When the Uberman showed up, honestly, it was really because I didn't want to take an Uber pool because there's a new wave. And then I come in there and all of a sudden you got into this train car and it was very unpleasant.

Absolutely. I always love it when my Uber driver is also a bit of a philosophical thinker as well. That's how you get a one star. But from this excerpt, Nathan Leopold, like so many dicks with a superiority complex before and after, he expanded these scant four lines to justify his own morally reprehensible actions. For Nathan Leopold, the ubermensch, or Superman, I mean, it technically translates to overman, but Superman also works as well.

The Superman stood outside of the law and was beyond the moral code that constrained the actions of ordinary men. In effect, the ubermensch wouldn't even need to reference the greater good as a justification for murder. Because they are as in the in the state of being said ubermensch, they are automatically over man. So it doesn't matter what they do. Our reaction to what they do doesn't matter. Yes, the Superman could justify murder by simply saying, it gives me pleasure to do so.

And of course, that is a complete misunderstanding of what Nietzsche was trying to say. Yes, because there is an interpretation of the so-called will to power supposed to be a personal transformation, much like, like you know each man and woman is a star like that idea that you're it's more about personal transformation and not lowering it over everybody else either way it is a fucking great way to just absolutely bring a hinge date to a screaming hall absolutely just let it go man i just feel like freddie Nachos doesn't need to be out there as much anymore.

And people should listen to more like, what's a better? Dune. Honestly, I've learned more about like Dune got me laid more than Nachos did. Bobcat Goldthwait. Fantastic. Yeah. He's got some great parodies out there. The one about America, which is fantastic.

Maybe mention some of his films. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Or ask her some questions. Yeah. Ask her questions. What do you like to do for a living? one about america which is a fantastic maybe mention some of his films sure yeah yeah or ask her some questions yeah ask her questions what do you like to do for a living how do you plan to express your will to power well i like to read okay i like to read okay but with this belief in mind leopold and lobe began escalating once more and this time they'd keep escalating until they hit murder. Graduating from vandalism, Leopold and Loeb decided to add burglary to their repertoire in November of 1923. Was there a ceremony for their graduation? Did somebody show up?

It was like, congratulations, you're graduating from burglary this week. This is really, this is awesome. Step, step, step, step, step, step. Whoa. During a football game between the Michigan Wolverines and the Quantico Devil Dogs. Whoa. Why does it sound like it's just a group of gas station employees? Leopold and Loeb drove Nathan's red Willis Knight sports car from Chicago to Ann Arbor to rob Richard's old fraternity.

You know they both have like babushkas on. Yeah. What's the movie? Spies Like Us? No, the Mad Woman movie. The Mad Woman movie. Where they commit suicide. Thelma and Louise.

Yeah. Fantastic. You really ruined that movie for a lot of people. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They commit suicide at the end of it. Everyone knows they commit suicide at the end of it. If you've seen Wayne's World, you know they commit suicide at the end of it. Everyone knows they commit suicide at the end of it. If you've seen Wayne's World, you know they commit suicide

at the end of it. I think most people have seen Wayne's World 2, I think it was. Yeah, it's Wayne's World 2. Yeah. Well, after searching through the house

with flashlights in their hands and revolvers in their pockets, Whoa! Leopold and Loeb came out with an assortment of pen knives, watches, and fountain pens,

as well as $74 in cash. But the most important ill-gotten gain was an Underwood portable typewriter, which Nathan kept for himself. But even while Nathan Leopold came away with a new toy, he wasn't all that jazzed about the score or the experience. On the drive home, Nathan argued that the payoff wasn't worth the 12-hour round trip, but that wasn't what nathan was really upset about yeah because you know that in a couple when you're fighting about dumb shit it's not about the dumb shit it's about what the dumb shit means well eventually nathan's anger was revealed to really be about the fact that he and richard didn't have sex anywhere near as much

as they did when they first got together, back when they were at the University of Chicago. Back when we were children. Yes. So Richard, missing the point entirely, made a proposition. Okay, okay, okay, okay, hear me out. Hear me out. I get it, I get it, I get it.

You're empty. You want to be full. I'm the stuff that got to make you full. Yeah. And you need that stuff, right? Absolutely. This is a pipeline problem. I'm going to call my father. He knows how to do all these. Yeah. And you need that stuff, right? Absolutely. This is a pipeline problem. I'm going to call my father.

He knows how to do all these shipping lines. Okay. Fill me up, please. Well, Richard proposed that if Nathan continued to participate in any and all criminal ventures that Richard suggested, then Richard would agree to brown with Nathan three times every two months. And this is where you get, this is where it's good for you, right? That's not that much. Because you look over here,

right? We got a Thursday because Thursday's my favorite day of the week because it's the new Friday. And then we got down here, we got the second Saturday of each month because that's a party Saturday. Then we can go out, right? We'll go to the bowling alley. We'll brown. We'll go back out. Maybe we can get a stiff cocktail or something if it's not illegal yet. Absolutely. Then maybe

we can brown again, depending on whether or not you're wearing a wig or something. Sure. And then when we get down here, we can do the first Monday of every last week, because what that does is it starts the week with a brown. And then now all of a sudden, you've been browned out, I've been browned in, and we can get back to all the other... We got a lot of other plans. We got a lot of things.

We're moving around here. I can almost go for a little bit more, to honest it's not that much right now let's start with this okay and then the honestly next quarter we can turn back around and really look at some of the numbers fantastic well nathan desperate to both have sex with and serve his king readily agreed but richard began to think that maybe nathan had point here. The frat heist had been far too easy. And a man of Richard's supposed superior criminal intellect would need a real challenge in order for him to keep justifying his own high opinion of himself. Meanwhile, Nathan's like, that's not the point I was trying to make at all. I'm looking for more dick.

And I wish that what you understood here was that I am neglecting Nathan. Right. Seems like that could have solved a lot of problems. Similarly, Nathan, as a supposed ubermensch, needed to cement his status as a person who could and should do whatever he wanted, even murder, for any reason. So on the road back to Chicago, they began outlining what they thought was the perfect crime. See, as we know from our Ma Barker series, kidnapping was the crime du jour in the 1920s. All the biggest and most infamous criminals were doing it. So Leopold, and especially Loeb, who wanted to count himself amongst the criminal masterminds of the day, decided that kidnapping was their crime to commit.

Eureka! Yes, we got it! Nailed it! of the day, decided that kidnapping was their crime to commit. Eureka! Yes! We got it! Nailed it! Now, of course, ransom would be involved, and they need to construct an intricate plan to receive the ransom money without detection. But in order to remove any chance of identification and therefore capture,

they decided they would have to kill the child. I also think, talking about killing a child. Is it weirdly also in a way is I feel like that they know that it would be physically easier to kill a child versus a full grown man or a full grown woman. Of course. You can just slam their head in a car door.

They're working their way up. Yeah. You can give them, you know, arsenic laced candy. There's a lot of ways you can do it. There's so many ways you could put a tinier noose. You can buy less rope.

There's so many ways to kill a child. There are, yes. But it does seem like they put a lot of effort into the details of the ransom collection and not a lot of details into the murder part of it. I don't know. I would argue differently, but we'll get to that point later. Put another way, murder was not the point of Leopold and Loeb's crime. The point was to commit a kidnapping, receive a ransom, and not get caught doing it.

For them, murder was simply a means to an end. It was just the next step in the plan. So, over the course of seven months, Nathan and Richard continued to develop how they would commit a kidnapping. You should get a big sack. Oh, that's a good idea. Get a big sack. What if we threw one of those holes on the ground? Where you put it and it's like a black hole, right?

Sure. It's like a black disc. You put it down there. But then they fall down. That's a good idea. Because they don't understand that it's not indeed a hole. Yeah, we're going to be using those in the Vietnam War that we don't know about yet. No.

It's a conflict, I heard. Yeah, it's a conflict, yeah. And they started a plan how they would get away with the subsequent murder. Murder. Boiled down to complete simplicity, the plan was to lure a boy into a car, knock him out, drive him to a deserted spot on the Indiana state line, kill him, and hide the body. Well, that's such a fucking brilliant plan.

I mean, it sounds like it's A to Z, man. Jeez. Specifically, they would hide the corpse in a drainage pipe near some railroad tracks at Wolf Lake, where Nathan Leopold often hunted birds for his stuffed bird collection. And what I imagine is that everyone there will be so busy searching for birds in the most incredible way possible, in the most incredible hobby it's ever been. They'll never see a little boy's feet in a pipe. Oh, my goodness. They'll never see a little boy's feet in a pipe. Oh, my goodness.

As far as how they'd kill the boy, they figured a bullet would be simplest. But Richard rightly surmised that if they were caught, only one of them would technically be the murderer. So they decided to both strangle the boy by each pulling different ends of the same rope wrapped around the boy's throat. And this way they were equally guilty it's such a nerdy way to break down a murder as well and what why tit for tat again in relationships you can't do the tit for tat i mean technically i think they're you're both guilty if one of you murders and the other ones in the car and you help plan it you're both guilty unless you're mutually assured destruction unless one flips on the other exactly and that's the thing is that it shows that they did not trust each other at all.

They both knew each other's essential nature. The hardest part, of course, was how they would obtain the ransom money in a quick and anonymous fashion. And after much discussion, they decided that the best delivery method would be by train. And Henry, you are right. They did put a lot of thought into this. It's actually quite brilliant, if you want to know the honest truth. Fly from your grave. Hey, what's up, everyone?

How you doing? Ben Kissel here with Henry Zebrowski. Yeah, it's me, man. Yeah, bro. Henry Zebrowski is smoking some of that sweet last podcast of the month, babe. Go out there and purchase yourself some. I hope you enjoy it. We have Sativa, we have Indica, and we have a hybrid.

And I have to tell you, from my personal experience, they are wonderful. Super tasty live resin. You really get that delicious weedy taste, which is what I like. And three different experiences. You go to your local vape store and get it. Absolutely. Thank you all so much for supporting the show. We absolutely love you.

Can't wait to see you on the road. And get that vape, put it in your brain and have a good time. And if you want us at your favorite weed store, give them a call and ask for them by name. Last podcast on the left. It's weed. Hail yourselves, everyone. Hail Satan. Well, after the kidnapping, the plan went, they would telephone the victim's father and tell him to go to a drugstore on 63rd and Blackstone Avenue adjacent to the 63rd Street station to wait to a drugstore on 63rd and Blackstone Avenue, adjacent to the 63rd Street station, to wait for a second phone call. That phone call would come just before the train reached the station at its scheduled time, and the boy's father would be instructed

to board the train, walk to the rear carriage, and look in a telegraph box for a letter with further instructions. The letter would tell him to throw the ransom, securely wrapped in a cigar box, from the train five seconds after it passed the distinctive red brick water tower of the Champion Manufacturing Company. That's a lot of details. There's so many details. I actually don't think this is brilliant because it's way too complex

and then the guy's like, what if there was more than one red brick water tower? But it was distinctive. Everyone in Chicago knew about the Champion Manufacturing Company red brick water tower. But it was distinctive. That's everyone in Chicago knew about the champion manufacturing company, red brick water tower. It was a, it was a big landmark. Everybody knew about it.

Everybody knew about it. All right. And if the package was thrown at just the right time, then Leopold and Loeb figured that it would land close to 74th street where they'd be waiting with the engine running. And sure enough, when they rehearsed it multiple times, the package landed exactly where

they needed it to land this is where the ransom part seems to be way more about control again it's about they because again they're not they want to get the money but they don't care about the money they don't care about the money it's just about knowing that the father of this child is running around doing all of these tasks for you and it's another way to extend their little criminal almost sexual game to like say like okay now we got him dancing on our puppet string while he doesn't even know we've already killed this kid oh and it's also about making sure that the cops can't follow them they're not being seen i mean ultimately it is about not getting caught and thinking oh i'm so smart for coming up with this very intricate plan that nobody could ever find leopold and lobe and they're

spending time tracking down the ransom note and all of that shit instead of looking for a body yeah but since leopold and lobe were both extremely wealthy, Leopold had a distinctive rich kid car, a red Willis Knight sports car with a nickel bumper. Ooh. Which, that's gonna be bad for a getaway. Yes. So, they decided to rent a car and create false identities to do so. This is all

again, this is all like, it's not, I don't know if it's sexually sexual. It's a hobby. It's their fucking hobby. It's literally, it's how they spend their time. Because then they put all of this other time into this fucking plan too. It doesn't need to be this labyrinth. Yeah. And I actually, I greatly simplified this plan.

But basically, two weeks before the kidnapping was to take place, Nathan Leopold walked into a car rental company and told him that he was a traveling salesman named Mort Ballard. Yeah, my name is Mort Ballard. I'm straight as a question mark. What I'm going to need from you is a hatchback because that's where it's got calling it the Brown Mobile. Absolutely. My name is Larry Prolapse. Larry Prolapse. Oh, this is my buddy, Larry Prolapse.

We're just having a good time looking to rent a car to Brown in. Businessman. Businessman. Businessman. That's what I meant, businessman. And he said, I got to rent a car. So he paid a $400 deposit and put down a man named Louis Mason as a reference, which was, of course, Richard Loeb, who was waiting at a diner a few blocks away.

The rental company called for the reference and Richard Loeb, posing as Lewis Mason, said that Mort Ballard of Peoria was the most dependable young man he'd ever met in his life. And as a result, Leopold and Loeb secured an untraceable rental for the day of the kidnapping,

set for May 21st, 1924. Now, the day before, Nathan and Richard went on a shopping spree to pick up everything they needed for the kidnapping, set for May 21st, 1924. Now, the day before, Nathan and Richard went on a shopping spree to pick up everything they needed for the kidnapping, the murder, and the ransom note. That's the funnest part. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're preparing for vacation. Yeah, that's awesome. We're going to need a shovel, and we're going to need a little Snickers bar,

just in case we get hungry. And maybe we can get a little bag of chips, just in case we get hungry. I don't have time to cater to this. What if we got a little piece of ham? We're moving on of chips In case we get hungry I don't have time to cater to this What if we got a little piece of ham Just in case we get hungry But then if we get the ham we're going to have to get a little bit of ice To make sure the ham doesn't get too moist We have to concentrate on what we're doing here

We're doing a murder here okay But now that we have the ice we can get some Coca-Cola I feel like we're focusing too much on what we're having for lunch And not enough on how we're going to need to kill a boy today Well from the stationery store Nathan bought paper, envelopes I feel like we're focusing too much on what we're having for lunch and not enough on how we're going to kill a boy today. Well, from the stationery store, Nathan bought paper envelopes and a box of chocolate creams. It pretty much gave him the appearance that he's a man ready to write a love letter. I mean, my chocolate creams, of course.

Soon after, though, Nathan went to a drugstore and bought a pint of hydrochloric acid and half a pint of ether, which suggested a different kind of night altogether. Wait a second. You can just buy that then? That was the first speedball. Oh, I see. Back then you could just buy that. I mean, he told the clerk, like, hey, I am a student over at the college. I'm doing some science experiments. Name's Mort

Ballard and I am here for, yeah, not for browning certainly i am all ready to just do business with my acid i whoa do you know me i'm addicted to ether richard meanwhile bought the murder weapons from a hardware store in the same neighborhood as the drug store and that day richard lowe bought a rope and a sharp edged chisel with a wooden handle to preferably be used for bludgeoning. But stabbing was certainly an option as well. If you're feeling fun. If you're feeling that, that's fun.

Murder store, hardware store. I mean, come on now. That's what's cool about a hardware store is you're surrounded by all those weapons. It smells like nails. Yeah. And finally, they wrote the ransom letter. They said it smells like nails. Yeah.

And finally, they wrote the ransom letter. Using a note published in Detective Story magazine as a model, Nathan typed the missive on the Underwood typewriter he'd stolen from Richard's old fraternity house. And did so without any grammatical or spelling errors, which will be very important later on. I spelled Beverly wrong. later on. I spelled Beverly wrong. You know, and have you done any research into the comparisons of the Leopold and Loeb ransom letter and the JonBenet Ramsey ransom letter? No, I have not. Have you?

Yes. Yes, I have. Maybe we'll get a little Coca-Cola just in case we get hungry later. We need to kill a boy today. Everything was set. And at 11 a.m. on May 21st, 1924, Leopold and Loeb met up to commit what they believed was going to be the perfect crime and they believed they were committing it just for the sake of it the thrill of it and after renting the car under the previously established identity

of mort ballard my name is mort ballard straight as hellried to a woman these nigh on 57 years. Yeah, I may look like I'm 19, but I'm 57 years old. Businessman. Fantastic. Nathan drove the rental car back home while Richard followed in Nathan's car. Nathan's car was then dropped off with the Leopold family chauffeur, Sven England, who was told to look at the brakes on Nathan's Willis night because they'd been squeaking as of late. Have you checked it for mice? The bit of a Swedish joke.

Little mouse in the car. Well, Sven said brakes probably just need a quick greasing. It's not going to take long at all. But Nathan got indignant and he told Sven to completely take apart the braking system and put it back together again. You put it back together? I need to do it this instant. Come on. Actually, Nathan, I actually had a bite of that Snickers bar as I was following you, and I think I was just angry.

So I actually feel great. I don't really want to kill a child. I can't believe what we're doing. My whole afternoon's been ruined. But this ensured that Sven England would be busy all day long. And once Sven was put in his place, Nathan took the murder tools from his car and loaded them into the rental where Richard was waiting. By 1 p.m., Leopold and Loeb arrived at their so-called hunting grounds. They'd chosen the streets surrounding Nathan Leopold's alma mater, the Harvard School for Boys. Not just because Nathan was familiar with the area, but because they were almost guaranteed to pick up a boy whose father could easily pay the ransom. Yeah, it sounds like it. They're at the Harvard School for Boys.

Yeah, it just sounds like a place for kidnappers to live. It really does. It sounds absolutely horrifying. for kidnappers to live. It really does. It's absolutely horrifying. And indeed, Leopold and Loeb did have a list of potential victims, starting with a kid named Johnny Levinson. After stopping Johnny on the street

and having a chat, Leopold and Loeb learned that he was about to go play baseball at a field on 49th Street. The plan was to watch the game, follow Johnny home afterward, lure him into the car, and kill him. But luckily for Johnny, he decided to watch the game follow johnny home afterward lure him into the car and kill him but luckily for johnny he decided to skip the diamond on that fateful day and then you have to watch a

whole little league game yeah yeah it's just the worst i feel like nothing bears the mark of a criminal more than when i see a man in the airport watching the children's world series i think like when they have these little leagues, I feel weird when a bunch of grown-ass men are like, yeah, look at the legs of this fucking hoss. He can charge up and down. What I like about him, he's got a good set on him. He's got a good gait.

He's got long arms. He's got a big, deep torso. And I wish I could really wrap my hands around him to see how solid he was, but it's just hard. They won't let me on the field. It is really freaking gross, dude. I hate it.

Especially when it comes to sports. Like, LeBron was on the cover of SI when he was in eighth grade, I think, and they were scouting him since, like, fifth grade, which means they just have to watch a bunch of children play basketball. And it's just boring. It's just kids playing basketball.

Yeah, it's kind of a gross business. No, it's fine if your kid's playing basketball, if your relative's playing basketball, but a stranger watching a bunch of children play a sport is strange, yes. And seeing dollar signs. I don't even go to college football games because I feel like, you guys are cool kids, huh? I love the Syracuse

Orangemen. They're children! Exactly. Yeah, the further I get away from college, yes, the weirder watching college football does seem. Well, after realizing that Johnny wasn't coming, Leopold and Loeb returned to their car and spent another two hours just driving around. And just when they were ready to give up and try again the next day, Loeb spotted a 14-year-old boy walking alone down Ellis Avenue.

There she goes. Oh, no. Loeb immediately pegged him as the ideal victim. But when he looked closer, he found that he actually knew the boy the boy's name was bobby franks and he not only lived on the same street as richard loeb but he was also his second cousin i don't know i feel like the name bobby franks he'll rip off your arms and beat you to death with him like bobby franks is a tough name it definitely sounds like the name of a kid whose picture you'd see with a candle next to it at a wake like it does seem like oh bobby franks he didn't have long for this world he was half frankfurter

you know how it is with the nitrates yeah those are bad for you bobby franks's father jacob franks had actually purchased his home from richard loeb's father which meant that not only was a ransom guaranteed but luring bobby into the rental car would be that much easier. But once Nathan and Richard pulled up to talk to Bobby, they found that Bobby didn't really need a ride because he was only two blocks from his house. I don't need to go with you. I said, sorry, and you're like, that's the problem. He's pulling in like a child like me into the car being like, you guys ain't trying to suck my dick. Get out of here.

I'll give you that at 20 bucks. Well, Richard responded by saying that he just wanted to know more about the tennis racket he'd seen Bobby use the day before. Because Bobby played tennis at the Loeb House fairly often. Richard knew this kid. I don't understand why all you adults are watching me all the time. Yeah, leave the kid alone. And so Bobby Franks agreed to ride around for a bit and talk tennis. He got in the front seat while Nathan drove and Richard sat in the back.

Then, as Nathan Leopold turned the car down 50th Street, Richard Loeb reached forward, covered Bobby's mouth with his left hand, and brought the blunt side of the chisel down hard on the boy's head with his right. left hand and brought the blunt side of the chisel down hard on the boy's head with his right. He bashed his second cousin's skull again and again, spattering blood all over the car and Nathan's clothes. Bobby attempted to fight back, but eventually gave up, at which point Richard pulled him into the back seat and stuffed a cloth down the boy's throat as far as it would go. He then covered Bobby's mouth with tape, after which Bobby slid down to the floorboard and died from asphyxiation. Damn, that's a freaking brutal murder. Oh yeah, and it's very far from a plan already. Yeah. Yeah. Continuing on calmly, Nathan drove toward the Indiana state line and the pair stopped for hot dogs on the way with Bobby's corpse in the backseat of the car.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs, kill your second cousin today, hot dogs, get your hot dogs on the way with Bobby's corpse in the backseat of the car. Hot dogs, get your hot dogs, kill your second cousin today. Hot dogs, get your hot dogs. This is a BTK joke, I think. Yeah. Because his name literally was Bobby Franks. Do you think so? Yeah, maybe. Oh, God. They like doing everything that you can apply to

shitheads, you can apply to Leopold and Lowe. Do you get it? Do you get it? Finally, after dark, they arrived at Wolf Lake, their disposal destination. They continued with flashlights to the drainage pipe they'd already scouted out to stuff

Bobby's corpse inside, where they believed the corpse would quickly decompose and disappear through a combination of drainage trickle and summer heat. Once they arrived, Leopold and Loeb laid Bobby's corpse on a blanket and got to work on disfiguring the body just in case anyone found it in the hopes that identification would then be impossible. Well, this would make it quote-unquote the perfect crime.

Yes. They're so stupid. First, they stripped the corpse naked and poured a few drops of hydrochloric acid on the face to burn away the skin. Then Nathan poured the rest on the corpse's genitals because he'd heard that it was possible to identify a body by the shape of its genitals. Richard's like, who have you been talking to? That's not me. Number one, who have you else been talking to? And also number two, that's the grossest factoid I've heard in a minute.

It must have been some horny ass Sherlocklock holmes book you read where sherlock was like no i know exactly who that is you can tell by the vagina well finally it came time to shove the body into the drainage pipe but frustratingly for the two supposed master criminals the pipe was too narrow and it took quite a bit of effort to get it to fit even a little bit. In the end, the feet still stuck out. Jeez. I just don't like the look of it. I don't like the look of it.

It looks like a deranged cannoli. I don't want this to be our signature. Well, it's definitely not hidden, so that's not a good idea. Dirty Italians. But the thing that Leopold and Loeb were soon to discover is that it doesn't matter how long you spend planning your crime if you leave evidence behind. Yep. And just as Richard was climbing out of the drainage ditch, he heard a metallic clink.

After searching with his flashlight, he couldn't find anything incriminating so he decided fuck it probably wasn't anything crushed it yeah we'll fucking handle it in post all right high fives all right dogs get your hot dogs just where's your second cousin hot dogs so he and nathan returned to the rental secure in their belief that they'd committed the perfect crime. They're so stupid. After returning to Chicago, they drove to Hyde Park, bought two six-cent stamps, and mailed off the ransom note, which was sure to arrive the next morning. Lastly, they burned Bobby Franks' clothes in the basement furnace of Loeb's house.

At 10.30 that night, after all the hard evidence was disposed of, Leopold and lobe squeezed into a telephone booth together at a walgreens and made the first call to the frank's home stop laughing this is serious you stop laughing you you were the one you're laughing no you're laughing you stop it they did not trust each other at all no no and also if you're just seeing that you're like how non-inconspicuous is that two two 18 year olds jammed in evil looking teenagers just all like mr simmerland here uh are your your fat bits whoa you got him got him well after reaching bobby's mother flora because bobby's father wasn't home, Nathan

said this rapidly and clearly in a tone that was later described as educated. This is Mr. Johnson. Nailing it. Your boy's been kidnapped. You're nailing it. Dude, that was so freaking good, dude. I gave it to you. Shut up.

Shut up. We have him and you need not worry. He is safe. But don't try to trace his call. Nailed it. Don't try to trace his call. We must have money. We must have money.

We will let you know tomorrow what we want. Yep. Dick, you fucking damn nail this. Fucking got you. All right. We're kidnappers. We mean business. Big business.

Now, if you fuse us, what we we want or try to report us to the police we will kill the boy boom she has no idea we already killed the boy they're right if you guys ever watched home movies they remind me of walter and perry like they were by walter and perry the two boys who love each other too much well they then hung up the phone and went back to nathan leopold's home to have a celebratory drink. There, they ran into Nathan's father, who praised Richard Loeb for being, and I quote, an excellent influence on his son. Oh, you wouldn't believe it, Daddy.

He influenced all over my lower back last night. Fantastic. I'll have some fun with it. But when Nathan was driving Richard back home later that night, they realized they'd forgotten to get rid of the actual murder weapon, the chisel. So master criminal Richard Loeb simply tossed it from the window, thinking no one would see. Absolutely brilliant. Richard Loeb, this is the thing, it's all about the quote unquote perfect crime, and then all the planning goes out the fucking window. That's the worst thing that they could have done.

Everything falls apart so quickly because it really shows that they could have done. I mean, other than everything else so quickly, because it really shows that they had no real world experience, obviously in murder. They do not know what to do, but they were as well, deeply arrogant. And it's also that idea of the, he's the,

what's the text thing with the shrug? Like he's literally, he's doing that with all these, because it really is like, he maybe is sort of borrowing Nathan's viewpoint of like, you know what? Maybe we are Uber mentions. So what we'll do, it'll all work out. It'll just work out. No, in this they were wrong.

A night watchman named Bernie Hunt heard the clink of the chisel hit the sidewalk, and after he picked up the bloodstained implement, he saw that it had been thrown from a distinctive red Willis Knight sports car with nickel bumpers. It was the only one that had a license plate that says brown me, which was incredible. So if you got that, if that's on your register, have fun. Sure. However, there was still one gigantic piece of evidence to take care of the next day. And that was the rental car where the murder actually took place. Yeah. the next day.

And that was the rental car where the murder actually took place. Yeah. The next morning, the Leopold family chauffeur, Sven, found Nathan and Richard scrubbing a mysterious

red substance from the inside of the vehicle. It seems to be have some form of something out here. There seems to be some form of exploding.

What do you think, Sven? What do you think that is? Air beers or some kind of exploding What do you think, Sven? What do you think that is? Ambers or some kind of exploding cherry pie in here? Oh, yeah. It was a cherry pie. Who knows? What could that be? Thinking quickly, Richard claimed that they'd simply spilled wine.

Like a lot of wine. How you always do when you're driving. Best case scenario, they're just hammered while driving. Well, Nathan said he'd appreciate it if Sven didn't mention it to his parents because they'd been doing a bit of bootlegging. And this is prohibition. So it's, you know, a couple of kids sowing some wild oats, doing some bootlegging, glass of wine or a bottle of wine breaks. It's not the most implausible thing. Yeah, I remember when my father dropped his clog in the flirt.

And we went on into the flirt to look for his clog and it is very difficult to be in the flirt. Are you allowed to talk to me, Sven? Thank you. And so Sven Englund kept his trap shut for the time being. Eventually, Sven Englund would talk a lot and it would not be good. Uh-oh. Around the same time, the ransom note arrived at the Franks' home claiming that Bobby was indeed still alive. The note demanded $10,000 in old bills delivered in a cigar box wrapped in white paper and sealed with wax. And if you do read the actual letter, it's the term and hence was used in both of the letters.

And it was used like it really is. It's very distinctive. And then when you look at it in the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note, too, you look at it and you're like, that's that's fucking weird. Because who I never I don't use the word and hence. Do you use and hence? Sometimes if it's if it's appropriate. Yeah, but don't use the word enhance. Do you use enhance? Sometimes if it's appropriate. Yeah, but I use it sarcastically. It's mostly like enhance and then I tip shit big.

You know, I say it alone to a toilet. I like saying enhance. But I think I just like saying enhance because of the JonBenet Ramsey note. And I know that that's a big deal. That's a big part of it. Is that, is why? Wow, you like it that much, huh? Is that's a big part of it that is why well you like it that much huh well is that what you're doing the is that what you want to cover your onk up

with is the tattoo of the javaday ramsay and hence i already covered it up with my fucking sick ass castlevania tattoo which i got done by fucking timmy b out at night i'll uh tattoo over in uh fucking uh northampton massachusetts go check them out they're well the letter also warned that if the kidnappers instructions weren't followed to the letter the boy would die if they did what they were told though bobby would be returned within six hours of payment but neither leopold and lobe nor the franks knew at this time, however, was that Bobby's body had already been found. Oh, dang. A Polish pump worker named Tony Minky had easily spotted a foot poking out from the drainage pipe in the early hours of the morn. Look at that, a Polish hero.

Hey, man, it happens. Wow. And he, of course, discovered the naked body of Bobby Franks. And after calling the police and pulling the body out of the pipe with the help of a few other men, Minky and the others searched the area for the boys' clothes.

But what they found was something else entirely. Just a few feet from the drainage pipe, another pump worker named Paul Korf found a pair of expensive and distinctive eyeglasses with tortoise shell frames which were assumed to belong to the victim.

But the glasses didn't belong to Bobby Franks. Rather, they belonged to Richard Loeb. And it's there that we'll pick back up for part two of our three-part series. This is one of those stories i forgot my glasses oh my glasses this is one of those stories that is true crime history for a

reason because the process of the investigation will go and then it's going to be repeated throughout history this is becomes in the the epitome of an example of a celebrity crime trial. It becomes huge. Some of the biggest names in 20th century history will be there. Somebody like Clarence Darrow who's got... It's interesting. You'll see that it really works its way into history

and that's why... You gotta be careful what your fantasies lead you to. Absolutely. Leopold and Loeb, two people fantasies lead you to. Indeed. Absolutely. Leopold and Loeb, two people who I'm excited to hear come to justice. Come to justice. And we are coming to Nashville. Yeah.

June 18th. We're going to be there. The Ryman Auditorium. All of LPN's going to be there. The Jamboree's going to be rocking. If you can't be there, we only got about like 100 tickets left. But please come buy tickets to put your butt in the seat in person. Because, again, I have no clue how if we're going to do this again or when we're going to do this.

Absolutely. And if not, this is every single I mean, this is every single LPN show doing their own segment. Like, of course, we'll be there. We'll be hosting. We'll do our our segment as well. But this is mostly an LPN focused show where everyone's going to be doing their own thing. No Dogs in Space, we got a fucking super cool bit written. Can't wait to perform live. No Dogs in Space

live for the very first time. It's going to be so fucking great. Can't wait. We got a live band that's going to be we actually have a live band that's going to be playing the music for us. It's going to be so fucking cool. The Urban Pioneers, man. I'm so excited. That's your family, too, which is going to be really cool to have them there. It's going to be so cool. But if you can't make it in person, go to momenthouse.com slash LPOTL

and you can buy a live stream ticket to watch it from the nudity of your own home. Absolutely. And it'd be great, man. Because again, I don't know if we're going to do this again. We can't wait. And my only word of advice, have your first beer at the start of the show. And then by the end of it, you'll have five or six in

you and you'll be ready to rock and roll. No need to pre-party because it's going to be about three hours long. It's a big, big show. And we want you to remember. And Top Hat will be there, and Page 7 will be there. You'll see all of the strange-looking bodies that make up our network. And then we got Last Comic Book on the left. We're selling that.

You get to go and order it from Z2 Comics. It's absolutely gorgeous looking through it. So much work and time and love went into this book. And so I hope you guys like it. And is that it? Yeah, basically. And Spring Hill Jack's got a new blend. He got a new, it's kind of, he said, he corrected me.

Because I said it was a lighter roast and it's not. It's just, it feels lighter. Same beans, same roast. There we go. With a little bit of a different technique but equally as delicious a little me some for Spring Hill Jack I had it this morning and I'm fucking just so nice as shit

absolutely especially because I go down there and again I go and hence I build up the tension for myself and I just back up the truck and go beep beep beep beep and then I land her then I shit her. Then I shit.

Gotta evacuate some waste there. Alright everyone, well thank you so much for listening. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. Again. Magustalations everybody. Yeah man, magustalations all around for all the children in the world. Absolutely. If you see your second cousin walking around go hang out, have a nice time together. Don't kill him.

Don't kill him. Unless they're a fucking... Don't kill him. Don't. No. Even then. them. Unless they're a fucking. Don't kill them. Don't. No, even then. Because it's mutually, you're going to get caught, especially nowadays. That's why we got to frame them for murder. Of themselves. Maybe.

For suicide. We'll get to part two. Let's get to part two. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.