Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 549: Andrew Cunanan Part I - Lewd Doings

Episode Date: October 7, 2023

This week Marcus, Henry, and Ed begin the tale of American spree killer Andrew Cunanan,  who murdered five people over three months in the summer of 1997, culminating in the slaying of Italian fashion mogul Gianni Versace.

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Means everything to us. So we have no intention of stopping this anytime soon. The show will continue at the same level that you've come to expect from us week after week, year after year, and with your continued support decade after decade. So thank you. Seriously. Here's the show. There's no place to escape to.

This is the last talk on the left. That's one of the cannon bullets I'm started. What was that? Ready? You doing this recording? Whoa, we're recording, wow. Man. You ready? You doing this? We're recording? Whoa, we're recording, wow. Man.

Man. I started it. No, man, I got, I'm rocking and beta blockers. Oh, I got them. You ever done that? How you rock a beta blocker? Eat them. And it's kind of fun, because I feel like,

like I'm in my own cockpit, like I'm a little pilot. Yeah. You know, it's going like, here we go., like I'm in my own cockpit, like I'm a little pilot. Yeah. You know, it's gonna, like, here we go. And our cruising altitude, 35,000 feet. Don't look at those nightmares. Even though you're not asleep, the nightmares keep coming to your eyes. But we're just gonna cruise on over there.

Let me take your leave, you left to see. Grant and Ken, you don't jump. You're gonna wanna just keep on staying in there. Oh, we can put the seat belts on. And it's like, yeah, I'm just in my head, just constantly just like not dive bombing. Hell yeah, man, put your C-Pel it's on It's time for last podcast on the left everybody

Stay away my name is Marcus barks. I'm here with Henry's a brow ski you've been and happy birthday at Larson It's my birthday 42 feeling blue Thursday, 42, 4, and blue, 40, 40, I had a big one today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was nice. Yeah, you earned it. Yeah, you just showed me a picture of your dog that, you know, your mom addressed up

with like a birthday cap for your birthday. Was that for your birthday? No, that was for a dog. It was a dog's birthday. Okay, yeah. Yeah, the dog knows. They know exactly what that was. Guys, I'm legit excited about this topic.

Yeah, it has been a while since we've covered a true solid American villain. And this is, you know, don't get much frostier than this. They really don't. We're finally getting to one of the most well-known spree killers in American history, Andrew Kuhnana. Why did it take so long? Frost to cover him? There's a huge mini series. Yeah.

And you look really sexy. And then you got to give it, you want to give it some space. So we probably should have done it when the new mini series came out. Or we're not good at marketing. Yeah. Yeah. Actually argued when the series was coming out. I was like, no, no, no, we can't do the series because like there's a mini series out right now. And I didn't realize that's like, why they people do that? That's why you do it because people would be curious and would, you know, Google and such, but I'm bad at it. Well, you know what I mean? No, nothing.

You just wait three years. I started watching the series because of this. So there's that. We're helping them out. That's wonderful. We get X. I'm still under that. I'm still under.

I'm still under God damn stripe. Andrew Koonanon was a spree killer. Mr. Koonani. You know, Mr. Koonani and your head, Mr. Koonani, who's Mr. Koonanon? Anjuk Koonanon. Oh, you call Mr. Koonanon. Yeah,. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. Kunani. Mr. was a spree killer who murdered five people over the course of three months during the summer of 1997. Up until the modern rash of spree killers in this century, Kunanan was probably the most famous, not least because he ended his spree with the murder of fashion icon Gianni Versace.

See, I've already changed the shape of the word Qnanan in your head because you've been calling him Kunanan this whole time because I called him Mr. Kunanan. I didn't know his name was actually Qnan and in your head, because you could call them Kunnan in this whole time, because I called him Mr. Kunnan. I didn't know his name was actually Qnan and I actually don't know. Everybody said the different. One of the worst is the window I was watching like the footage of like the new, you know, like the original manhunt and the outside.

They also called him like, Qnanan. Yeah, I've heard Qnanan. Well, it's terrible. It's obviously the worst one. A series of letters. Yeah, let's be honest. Yeah, it's a spree murdering version of a banana. But true to his transformation from spree killer to assassin,

Kunanan was a shape shifter, an empty vessel for whatever story might make him seem more impressive to peers and strangers. Specifically though, Andrew's greatest survival mechanism was his ability to transform into the perfect, kept boy for wealthy old gay men. Man, where's that genius lamp? I get a bucket take a look at it.

He's sort of like if Bugs Bunny, like he's a Bugs Bunny type character. The shape shifter. He appears to you as he wants to be a sexy lady. If Elmer Fud was rich. Yes. And he was right there. And then if Bugs Bunny like died, he bleached his wants to be sexy lady. If Elmer Fud was rich. Yes. And he was right there. And then it bugs Bunny like, died. He bleached his hair to gay murderer white.

And you know, I've seen that happen lots of the people. I've heard that's a good joke when you was like, no, like a friend of yours who goes bleach blonde. He's about to kill a slutkin family. That's it. Robin Williams of one hour photo. Exactly. Interesting.

But when it came to the casualize, Kunnan and might say he owned a construction company despite being in his early 20s. Other times he'd say he was an aspiring actor named Christopher. Well, he probably was. He might have been, no, yeah, he wasn't actor. He wasn't actor in life. Okay.

Never slanted a role though. Well, we will talk about it. That's what I'm saying. Career later. Yeah, all right. Quoting quote, actor. Okay. Sometimes he'd be a naval officer or he'd claim that his father was a ranking member of

the Israeli massage. I don't repeat that. Okay. I know it's a fun secret for you, for me, and you can handle it. But in reality, Andrew Kuhnainen was one part grifter and three parts parasite whose fragile world of lies eventually crumbled into a rage that resulted in five murders. Now, it's arguable what made Kuhnainen snap. It is.

Because I feel like he snapped when he was born. I mean, he was not good necessarily from the top. Well, when it seemed innocuous at first, it had slowly turned into it and the mo of a shape-shifting serial killer. Well, I'd say at no point would anyone describe Andrew Kinnon as chill. Yeah. No, no, or fun. I don't think. Well, no, you see, he was quite, it was like,

he was fun in a way that you were like, okay, and he did cocaine. Yeah, yeah. And then like a fire at a toy factory, the sounds are fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, one might say that the damn broke when it became clear that the high society lifestyle he always wanted would forever be out of reach. It could also be said that Kunanan had a pathological need to not only be liked, but adored and admired. And specifically for doing nothing. Yes. When that need was not satisfied in relation to a specific man who had no sexual interest

in Kunnan, it might have simply become too much for his fragile ego and it was all downhill from there. But most likely, Kunnan's anger was always going to be unleashed on the world in one way or another. As we'll get into it at the end of this episode, Andrew eventually found something that gave him a justification for letting his homicidal urges run free. And it certainly didn't help that he was doing a lot of meth at that time. Ah, meth.

It preps you. It preps you for that, you know, like he gets you ready, he gets you in the head space to murder a bunch of people. It was also a common phrase that he'd use all the time. If you listen to one of the books, you know, we'll get into the sources that are just dubious as the man himself. But he said constantly, he's like, you know, if I get it, that was his main lament, if I get HIV, I'm going on a five state killing spree.

And he'd say that a lot all the time. I Didn't you know, he didn't fulfill that promise. It was a four state killing spree. See again, you know, that's what's hard. Does anyone do a little bit of meth I have heard of people like I like a like one of those things where it's like, yeah, tried meth once. It was really good. I know some people that tried it once. And then they said that apparently it's like

the five days of fucking is like a lot. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. But regardless of the reasons behind Kuhnannan's four state killing spree. Pussy. Pussy. The fact remains that he was a hollow person with hollow ambitions whose inhumanity

resulted in the deaths of four everyday people and one of the most foremost fashion icons of the 20th century. Now as far as sources go today, there's surprisingly never been a serious book written about the Andrew Kuhnann and murder spree. Instead, we got two old fashioned true crime paperbacks that are heavy on the homophobia, but reliable with certain facts. They are very salacious. I would not call them unseerious necessarily, but they are thick, like vulgar favors is thick.

Sure, but it is, there's a lot of spin, and there's not a character building within it, because really hard is that, like, if somebody who's a lot of spin and there's a character building within it because really hard is that like if somebody who's a human labyrinth of a prism of different personalities who appears as different people to others, everybody's got a different read on him. Some people know him as a fucking flake, a criminal, a thief, a drug addict. There's other people that know him as like my best friend, the Godfather to my children. And so this, especially that book, we try to kind of like condense a bunch

of different views of him and one. And it's hard because there was no Andrew Kudaman. Yeah. There really wasn't. What was the phrase that you used when we talked about us that constantly talking about the slippery gay? Well, that vulgar favors is just the entire book is just about how like 99% of gay men I have met are unbelievably boring. Yeah. They do nothing. Right. They're remotely interesting.

Yeah. Because they're just people. Yeah. There's people. They don't have a woman ton of what to do. Wow. I'm going to win. I'll take out the trash whenever I feel like.

Great, great idea, Gary. Yeah. You know what Gary is fucking awesome. Let's talk to each other's dicks. No, I don't think I think it's were nuance that he is nuance. But not every single gay man is an assorted world of SNM6, casual drug use, and coming in flower pots. Like, these guys are, oh, like, these guys have a different idea of even where these, like,

the quote unquote, down and dirty areas of gay culture, what they're like. Because I think a lot of times, even those are kind of boring. Yeah, it's lots of staining furniture and stuff like that. Yeah, we worked in a very intense gay bar in Florida and Tallahassee. Yeah. And when we were there, like, you know, yeah, there was some blood everywhere. But a lot of times that was essential. Yeah, they wanted it.

And that was also just Tallahassee. It sounded serially gay bar. There's a lot of bars in Tallahassee with blood everywhere. Oh my God. Yes. But these books, when I say they're not necessarily serious, I mean, they're full of wild speculations, unsourced claims, contradictory views. I mean, the latter criticism, of course, is what Henry just said. It's Andrew Conanan's inherent nature as a pathological liar. So there's

bound to be, you know, there's bound to be contradictory views. And many people that want to get involved in the story, no matter what, because it, because of what he did in a sort of socially networking kind of way, adding Johnny Fursachi to his own murders, which added him to the Johnny Fursachi Wikipedia page that added everybody else who wants to talk about Andrew Kanan and to the same exact morbid trail of attention. Yes, but at any rate, the first source is death at every stop by Winsley Clarkson. Very grizzly book. There. While the second, running a bus in Oakland. While the second, which was used as the basis for the FX Andrew Koonani show a few years ago,

is vulgar favor by Maureen Orrath. Mr. Koonani. I guess that's what it says here at the very top of the prologue. You have to remember, I love these books. I love your crime books. Is Mr. Koonani, is that's what it says here at the very top of the prologue. You have to remember, I love these books. I love true crime books. Is Mr. Kunani, is that it? Michael Jackson thing? I don't think so.

I think it was to Poonani. That sounds fun. But you Mr. Kunani, I don't know. I don't know. I want to know where near my family. Yeah, absolutely. All right, here we go. This is from Richard Strauss's opera.

Kapitio, which we will be discussing. Just look at the vulgar favors that give the crowds of the capital such delight. Its amusement is our incident. Seen, clumsy, bourish. You despise these lude-doings. And yet you suffer them. The book begins. I'm so sorry for them. The book begins.

Oh, I like Lou doing. I'm gonna steal that. I love Lou doing. Lou doing is almost better than vulgar favors. Lou doing is my burlesque name. And there's also a fictionalized version of the story that our head researcher Joel read out of curiosity called three month fever by guy seriously named Gary Indian. Oh my god.

Well, you know he's a piece of shit. Oh yeah. A rat bit my sister. Hi. I'm Gary. I'm Gary and he is. I would take her to the goddamn hospital because I'm sick of that bitch. I didn't read it myself,

but it's apparently Gonzo is fuck. Joel said it's great, he had a great time reading it. He said it uses phrases like get the thrill of screaming. And got sucked deeper by the goop in the vagina. Oh, Jesus. I know it. It does sound like a gay man's version

of sex with a woman. Yeah. Yeah. But without further ado, Oh, Jesus. You know what it does sound like a gay man's version of sex with a woman. Yeah. Yeah. But without further ado, let's get into the story of Andrew Kunanan. Yeah. The murder of Gianni Versace. And why would you get at me?

And the four murders that occurred along the way. Oh, Mr. Kunani, we're coming for your fucking badass. So Andrew Kunanan was born August 31st, 1969 in San Diego, which is where we'll be hosting the LPN Beach Blanket Bingo show on October 20th at the Balboa Theater tickets on sale now. That's a really good, really well done. Thank you. So much. Yeah, yeah, get him now. They're going fast. Koonanan's father was from the Philippines. He was some guy named Modesto, who sometimes went by the more Americanized name of

Modesto. No, Pete, because he wanted to sound less ethnic. Yeah. He was a former naval officer who eventually switched careers to become a stockbroker. But as we'll find out later, Modesto was just as much of a fraud as his son was. Hey, he at least had a fake job. He did have it. Well, he had a real job that he was fake.

He turned his fake. He was fake. Good. Yeah. Yeah. He turned it fake. I don't know how to just, he looks like an evil concierge. Did you see Modesto? What do you look like with the paper thin little mustache, kind of a big bulbous head dressed to the nines and designer clothes, like a lot of rings, a lot of jewelry. Yeah. That's how I want to dress. That me too. Honestly, I want to look like

leisure suit Larry. I got all the other stuff attached to it. Man, I love that game. Yeah. As far as Conan and his mother went, she was a quiet put upon devout Catholic named Marianne, who met Modesto in a bar. She said it was like meeting the Filipino Elvis. Well, what other people described him was the Filipino arrow fling. Oh, he's dressed in a white tuxedo. Had a pencil thin mustache.

Brought strong, but he was like five foot four. Yes, he was very small. But I like that. No, because again, you can be strong. It's small. Let's all point. You look like a torpedo. You think you got as many fights as Errol Flynn?

You know what? Maybe more. Maybe he was contractually allowed to win those fights. I don't know if you actually win up to Errol Flynn and like pop them in the mouth. I don't know what he'd do. Well, he was known for fighting people in public. Whoa. Is that a Creole?

Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Errol Flynn was a fucking lunatic. I mean, hold the actors. Hold actors were actually like, like, did things in their lives. Now, like his son, Modesto was highly charismatic. He and Marianne were married within a year and six months later, she was pregnant with

the first of four children. The last child was Andrew Kunanan. Reportedly, and I'm gonna use that word a lot. Very good. Because so much of Kunanan's story is taken from stories other people told. Just remember this too, everything we cover because both of these books are shockingly different. Yeah.

And what they cover within his personal life. And the other stuff I was looking at, like this book, the, the Volga favors, which they changed into the mini series version of it. Like this was written for Vanity Fair, which was a partially, I'll try to get, we'll get a little bit into it, but they were trying to get Andrews can, like,

attention during the manhunt by putting articles out in his so-called favorite magazine. They knew that he'd read. They thought that he would get in contact with this woman. This woman was trying to get in contact during the manhunt by putting articles out in his so-called favorite magazine, they knew that he'd read. They thought that he would get in contact with this woman. This woman was trying to get in contact with Andrew Kiana for the entire time when they were tracking his crimes. But, uh, he's a member.

Andrew's crimes happened over like three months. Yeah. So these are very like, it's, it's very interesting to see just, they just are sleaze two versions of the story are like to slam and together. Yeah. Well, reportedly Andrew was a quote handsome child with a precocious sparkle. But like his father, Andrew hid his Filipino heritage from other kids, although he would sometimes lean on that side of his background in the future when it became a convenient

detail to a story. Like if he was playing, say one of the things he would play is like the heir to a vast Filipino banana for you. You would believe how much money is in pills. It's crazy. It's like a drug over there. They will have bananas. We have so many monkeys. We have so many quality control around a town. And I'll kill one. I'll fucking one looks at me sideways. I'll fucking shoot it in the house. Sorry, daddy. Let's say what you will about Andrew Koonan, and but in his own way, he was brilliant. Yeah.

Yeah. And yet an IQ of 147. Yeah. He also one plus four is five, five for seven is 12. One plus two is three. Go fuck yourself. Yeah. I'm funny.

What's the highest IQ? I don't even. I don't even know. 200. Yeah. It's big. Yeah. What's the highest IQ? I don't even think it's like 200. Yeah, it's big. It's big. Yeah, 300. I don't think it's 300. I think that's deep blue.

Has anyone ever taken an IQ test here? Yeah, you have what you know what you got? Yeah, 132. Woo. I feel weird saying it. Yeah. What'd you get? I got 151.

Fuck yeah. I'm brown. Yeah, but there's a long time. Yeah, me and my kunani. We the same This is a long time ago. This is again to give to class. I think I'm a lot dumber now. Yeah, I can't do math So that took the score down considerably. I know even got offered to take the test Yeah, I met this guy. Yeah, they just kind of looked at you and they're like well, let's just say he's going into manual Yeah, they just kind of looked at you and they're like, well, let's just say he's going into manual. Yeah, it was nice of a mind. Yeah, it was like, my test was really easy.

I went in this room, right? And first of all, they put a bunch of blocks there and asked me to switch to your questions. That was really nice. And then this other guy came in and he was dressed, I'm going to say dressed as Bill Clinton. And he said something about like, have you ever played or recorded the French way?

And I was like, no, I mean I played it My way we do it in school and then like I'm just sucking this fucking guy's guys and you apparently did it very intelligently. Yeah, you got it by going I love this I'm not coming Excellent well Andrew Koonan Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do that Andrew drew upon to create persona after persona, I think it is true. Well, he was a collector of things. I think he had appointed intelligence. Yeah. That he collected ammo.

This is like ammo. Yeah. There were points of phrases. It's kind of like legitimately how I play characters on this fucking show. I take a couple of attributes. You know, you're trying to play these various attributes. You know these things, if I was this guy, I'd know these 10 things. So he's doing character prep. But for a lot of people say there was one woman that read him to filth in this book

that's like, he was not that deep. He was just an expert in trivia. And he did not have a broad grasp of concepts, but he knew what to say in a quick succession that allowed you to believe that he knew what he was talking about. Well, that's what all his teacher said. His intelligence was entirely superficial. Near photographic memory, he could recall details, he could recall trivia, but he had no critical thinking skills. Well, because he didn't want, I feel like there's a difference between those that want to go deeper. Yeah. And those that don't. Where I feel like there's a difference between those that wanna go deeper. Yeah, and those that don't, where I think

that he kinda felt like, I'm incredible. I'm pretty incredible, so I don't really need all, like, I don't practice anything, I'm a discharging, and he taught me everything I need to know about karate. I could really, I could fucking knock your arm out of its socket if you want, I'm in a memory of my legum. My legum is! My legum is! Fly from your blade.

Hey there dudes and doodets. Time to wax up your boards and go catch the big wave over at the LPN Beach. Like it. Bingo! One night only at the Balboa Theater in San Diego, October 20th, come and check out all of the cool cats and the crazy dogs at LPN. Every show, an entire network, each one, pulsating and grinding in front of you for your entertainment pleasure.

We're all going to catch the big guna. We're all gonna catch the big guna. And I'm talking about that big greasy guy. I'm talking about a way. You and Siri, it's Siri! Just so you know, it's gonna be inside of a theater. So any physical wetness you experience is your own personal body heat or the sweat of one of the performers. Come and check it out. I'm certain if there's a podcast flavor you need on your

tongue, we got the spoon for it. For live stream tickets, go to Veepes.com slash LPL to watch from the comfort of your own home. Again, that's vee-e-p-s.com slash LPL. and that's vee-e-e-p-s.com slash L-P-O-T-L. H-h-h-h-h-h-h-h. Beach-fank-it-pingo, baby. Come on, girls, let's get it! Now, based on what Andrew learned from various books, he began telling wild stories about his background starting in junior high.

Setting himself apart by wearing suits, pressed khakis, arugile vests, and penny loafers, Andrew tried to weasel his way into the rich kid crowd by cleaning he owned stock in Coca-Cola and Rigglygum. Oh, so we got his ass kicked all the time. No, it's funny though. The editor of the year had it anything.

He really had like one of those like, silver tongue. So we're like, people at our time pinning them down because you also kind of both, he used his weirdness as a way of kind of very similar weirdly. I don't think he had as much control over it, but Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah. The way Jeffrey Dahmer would act out in high school. Like so when we covered Jeffrey Dahmer, we learned that he would he became like a class character where he do weird shit. People would dare him to do stuff and he'd do it and they like, he gained a semi-form of popularity. He actually, Andrew Kinnan realized that he could formulate a

personality that like, people would be drawn to, but then the bad guys would kind of be repelled from because he would use his sort of like natural homosexuality. He would go into sort of a flamboyant thing and it would do both. It would kind of deflect things from him. It's very weird. He could just confuse people. He probably would have been a great salesman. He would have been, he didn't do anything. He literally hadn't didn't have a single tangible skill.

Yeah, well, he didn't have a drive to work. It seems like. That's what it was. No, he would have been an absolutely incredible salesman. Yeah, he could have sold you a piece of shit car. And you wouldn't even know what happened until a year later. But again, that's destructive.

Yes. But while Andrew could spend a good yarn that attracted plenty of attention, everyone knew that he was full of shit. Nobody bought it. When he finally did convince a kid to be friends with him, Andrew's mother made sure to alienate anyone Andrew brought over to make sure the kid was good enough to be friends with her son. Oh, I don't know what this is like

Mary Ann would ask embarrassing probing questions think so personal that Andrew stop bringing people over altogether. I so glad that you had spent some time With Andy so tell me how are you circumcised? I was literally thinking that exactly. That was the... Yeah, buddy. So you said you don't have any, did your mother do that? Well, my mom, did she interview potential friends for you? It was just very, how do you put it? It's an over mothering thing. She wants all the kids stuff, but it was more than my mom wanted the kids to be her friends.

Yeah. Well, in this, okay. Andrew described his mother as overbearing and over loving while other others described her as over pampering. I fucking, I hate the term pamper. Yeah. Because pamper is, I mean, like, there are lots of awful things. There are a lot of terrible pamper.

And just with pampers, like, I just, I feel like a mother who pamper, space a lot of attention to her son's butt. Can you imagine meeting a guy named pamper? Oh yeah, it's just covered in his own piss. Hi. Hi. Hi. It's like a impulse control.

I just say it killed my water. And his father, however, was a domineering physically abusive man who trained his family to bow to his will so well that they would leave the living room when he bow to his will so well that they would leave the living room when he wanted to eat dinner so he could do so while watching TV in silence. Kind of nice. Yeah.

I mean, it's a man who knows what he wants. Yeah, it is. No. No children at dinner. Oh, I mean, that makes you want to have children. So you can make them go away. Feel that power. But like his son, Modesto had delusions of grandeur and believed that he deserved far more

than he had earned, especially after he started working as a phony baloney stockbroker years later. Well, he started legit. He got into like whatever this like stockbroker training program at Merrill Lynch. And so there was like a hot second where he kind of was a real stockbroke. But then he immediately went further and further into fringe, quote unquote, stockbroke and which is kind of like, if you watch Wolf Wall Street, you really can see like that was real, right? Like the idea of you can go from, you don't got to be on Wall Street to sell a bunch of stocks. You like a lot of times you're going to call from somebody.

It sounds like there's like a busy office behind them, but that's literally because someone hit play on a recorder behind them and they're it's like phone calls and stuff And it's just a guy alone in his house. Oh, dude. I did that when I was 18 we would sell penny stocks in fucking I was in a whole penny stock operation and that eventually stopped doing it Not so guilty that like I would just like not I would tell people like don't buy this That's scary. I'm not so guilty that like I would just like not, I would tell people like don't buy this. Well, I was on the phone with them, you know, it was crazy because and they eventually got rated and fucking the FBI came and everything.

Yeah, because it's extremely illegal because it's called pumping and dumping. Yeah, they were like, don't watch boiler room and then gave us the exact speech from boiler room verbatim. Don't get it. I hope that's so funny when I worked at the when the head hunting agency, we're going to head on and jean, I've told the story before that down in financial district, they did the same thing. We're the during the onboarding process.

He made us all sit and watch. Boy, I'm like from that to most like, this is they all like die at the end of this. Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. But even though Modesto was abusive, he was also toxically proud of Andrew's intelligence and he wouldn't tell other parents that his child was better than theirs.

He would tell other children that his son was better than that. So you're kind of like an idiot. Yeah, cool. Yeah. See, I'll you, you're all fucking idiots. You're all garbage. You're all garbage.

Do better, Do better. Be better. Later, when the family moved to a new house when Andrew was in high school, Andrew was given the master bedroom while his father slept on the couch and his mother took the maids room. Presumably, this was after all of his other older siblings left home. He was treated special from the very beginning. That's crazy.

It's weird. The other, they called the other other two kids street kids, right? Like, he had two older brothers and sisters and they were like, they just were more like lachky kids. They were kind of just, they kind of left their own devices and they just were as soon as he popped out the fucking pussy, they were immediately like, he's amazing. No. How do you only have two bedrooms and ones for a maid

Good point the point the Strangest thing between Andrew and his father was the fact that they had pet names for each other Did you find out what the pet names were? No, but I it was I remember it was like using cocoon poop with the cause of I think their names were cocoon poop. I fucking love this. Oh, we go to the cool cool To teacher This is my daughter Go go

Go go You like the noise coco. I don't use love go Yeah, but I don't like baby talk within my relationship. Well, I like Kuku is like this person's crazy, like a Kuku. Oh, yeah, Kuku, Kuku. I think that they should be come back as an official diagnosis of something. Yeah. And Pupu, I mean, I love Pupu.

Of course we all do. Yeah, because I have to solve it. My Pupu's are gross. Yeah. So I don't have to call it something cute in order to accept what happened. Yeah, you got to put some PR on that. Well, adding to Andrew's strange inner world with a dream,

he'd have as a child. He said that he had weird images of death and destruction, often involving his father or some other demon-like figure. Despite that, Andrew said that these dreams were as pleasurable as they were scaring. Yeah, that doesn't sound like an effortation at all. It's not definitely completely real. Like, there's a cool, you know, they're free horror movies. This is what I'm saying.

They're gonna see later on. What we're gonna see is this came from his brothers and sisters. He told this to them. I think a lot of this stuff that's gonna come out, especially in this episode that he's talking about himself is because he kind of was

obsessed very early on as portraying himself mysterious, like unknowable, and a little bit like, I also might do bad things. And like, you know, because the bad things he viewed as like sexy, like it was the, and he's been setting up since he was like nine. He was trying to be sexy since childhood. Yeah, I didn't start till like 12. Yeah. I'm gonna fucking fold me. You're sexy? Yeah.

Well, you know, it's a matter of a pain. I just thought that Julie just was just fine with it. And he just finally decided that you were stable enough to beat it. Ah, I can't keep her off me. This is about a even though the Koonanins were not well to do people. Modesto insisted on enrolling Koonanin into a $7,000 a year private school in San Diego called bishops. This was where Andrew got his first taste of the high life whilst hobnobbing with wealthy students.

His father used to take him to the mall and he'd say like, you see this suit? This is a good label. And they would, he would tell him all about like our money, the difference between our money and and for like, I don't know what was around at the time, but literally being like, you wear this, people will think that you're extremely important. And so for a while, his father was like, literally funding this weird, high-roll and lifestyle for his own son, where he would, and they wouldn't match.

They would buy matching suits. They would get, they got matching cars together where they were like, he's, because he wanted his son to look cool next to him. And now, but once he got to bishops, he started to connect this thing in his fucking head that like as long as you think I'm this thing, yeah, I am that thing. Well, fake it to your make. Yes, but you got to make it. If you keep faking it and faking it

and faking it and faking it and faking it and faking it and faking it and some point, like, you end up under a bridge. Yeah, he was like a shitty Bernie made off. Milesto. Yeah. In a way, yeah. Maybe. By the way, we have to start calling him Milesto. Yeah, we had to start calling him Milesto.

I know he probably didn't do that for me. No, no, no. But from what it seems, these interactions only made Andrew more insecure, angrier, and more flamboyant. For example, you went and showed up to a school function wearing a tight red leather jumpsuit, which I imagine, I think in my mind, it's like the one that Eddie Murphy wore during delirious. Oh, yes.

Which is ironic considering how highly homophobic delirious is. Also how highly homophobic he was as a young man. There was a lot of also weird other stuff than he would start to do it kind of stuff, but you may walk around and be like, Hey, you know, you know I'm half black. Yeah, it's true. It's the authenticity.

You know, it was all vinyl in that leather. Oh, yeah. It was over, you know, so it's real shitty clothes. I bet you will get into the, we'll actually get into why they were real. Okay. And what and what Modesto did to get that real shit. Milesto. Milesto.

Okay. Milesto. I'm saying Modesto. You can say you're the you're proper. You have same Modesto and then we'll just correct you every time. But in the more embarrassing realm, Kunanan would also try to entertain his classmates by aping lines and bits he'd memorized from episodes of Morgan Mindy. Oh, now, now, now, do you fucking remember?

Do you remember the show? No, this is when Morgan Mindy was like, on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And John the winter is man's great in that show. Very, very sad. Very sad, man. Surely sad man.

Was he sad? Oh yes, he actually put himself in a mental hospital two or three times during his life. Really? Tense depression. He's one of the funniest people who've ever lived. Yeah, it's almost like there is a current of sadness that runs through people that do comedy professionals. I wonder what that's all about.

When it came to telling wild stories though, Andrew quickly learned that the best way to get attention was to be openly gay, although his way of being openly gay was describing sexual encounters in graphic detail whether anyone wanted to hear about it or not. And gay or straight, that's just a guaranteed way to make everyone uncomfortable. Hey, kid, you guys do the English homework? You guys ever have your asshole look by his tugboat cap? More like a yank boat cap? Yeah, I got, I got stanchotorally raped last night.

I made him a criminal, charged by making him come. You're like Tesco's in your nostrils. You wouldn't believe your smell does not go back to normal for like six hours. He's also, he was just straight up fucking vulgar. He'd say that his two favorite things in life was sex and defecation. Oh yeah. His favorite line was, this is his favorite line. There's nothing like a good crap. I mean, we talk about our crap all the time. Yeah, but he's a sprinkler. He'll Johnny. Andrew also claimed that he was having a sexual relationship with the father of one of

his fellow classmates. All of these are crimes. Yeah. It's like it gives a walking series of crimes. Yeah. But while the classmate angle might not be true, Andrew almost certainly had an arrangement with a wealthy older man when he was a minor. Here, he's called me an older man in the house.

I'm like his little butler with two teams. Come on everybody. High kicks. Funny guy in the fucking room. Well somebody pick up the fucking slack. The spike coming from a home with a modest income. Andrew began showing up with expensive watches and jewelry. Can you imagine a child covered with an older man's jewelry?

He's like, that was my only fun. He's not 15 at this time. He's enough. He's You imagine a child covered with an older man's jewelry. He's like 15 at this time. He's enough. He's a teenager. He's a teenager. But still, it's not an eight year old show with a pinky ring. He was sucking dick back then. I'm guaranteed. I don't know. I gay wrong. He said that he lost his virginity when he was 13 to an older boy in a San Diego public park. Oh, okay. Okay. Is there a hallmark card for that? You can set this. At least it wasn't SeaWorld.

That's not worse. But quite possibly Andrew met his first of many sugar daddies at one of San Diego's gay bars, which Andrew began frequenting at the age of 15, thinking for some reason that being Latino was sexier or more accepted than being Filipino, Andrew started creating Hispanic characters for himself, like David Morales or Andrew DeCilva. Andrew DeCilva. That was his favorite. Well, the DeCilva came from, so during his time at Bishop, I'm tracking in vulgar favors.

There's interesting like arc here where there was a pair of twins that were at this school that he latched onto. And this family, they, like, they would kind of like he'd portray like at his home, like his father was so busy, his parents were so busy that they, you know, they were never around. And so they did that thing, which I don't know if you had, like my older sister, we had a friend, her friend like lived with us for like two years. So yeah, we had a little suit. I was the kid who lived with other families.

Yes, yes, we had two of them. Yeah, it was come, we had three of them. It's a very mean, all my brothers all had a guy. I don't know why that it's something, it was something about the early 90s. Yeah, you know, where that happened quite a bit. Well, you were just back then, you were just allowed to go to someone's house.

You got caught ahead. Yeah, you now have to show up at someone's house and go, call ahead, you can fucking kill. Yeah, I'm literally gonna call the police. Yeah. But the Niske, he kind of fit his way into this twin's life and they had a lot of money. And the Silva came from this family

that he kind of got attached to. They were all the refots. There was somebody else that was in there. I forgot, but he learned that name. And then he started using that name to sort of create this other character because they were rich and they did have access and they did travel the world and they did all these things.

And he immediately started to understand this like, okay, if I insinuate myself a bunch of people and just act just like, as a mirror, they are looking at themselves in me. And it's like, you kind of watched the slowly but surely this thing, like, grow inside of him. Mm-hmm. Well, with each new name came a new story.

And with each crowd came a new persona that was tailor-made on the spot to fit right in. Oh yeah. This however created a kind of identification crisis back at school. Andrew found that he'd lied so much that people actually didn't know who he was. You didn't know who Andrew Kuhnainen was. You knew Andrew De Silva or you knew David Morales. All the other kids knew for sure was that that guy had a creepy laugh. He had a creepy laugh. And illusions of grandeur that he would one day be rich and famous

without ever being able to articulate how. And that is a common thread, especially in our incredibly, incredibly wonderful business. In show business, that idea of faking it till you make it is honestly really important. I think that that's one of those things so you kind of have a lot of the aspiration,

but most people work really hard. Yeah. And then you either get with some version of your dream or you like find another avenue where you, you, oh, like, oh, actually, my skills are more in casting or my skills are over here. My skills are in production. I'm doing these other things and you find your place in it by, you, oh, like, oh, actually my skills are more in like casting or my skills are over here. My skills are in production.

I'm doing these other things. And you find your place in it by again, constructive actions, doing things that actually give something to the business. But something like him, time just believes I'm just going to sit here and everybody's going to line fucking up to put me on a goddamn billboard. Yep. Eventually though, people must have put together the character of Andrew Cunanan because his superlative

in his high school yearbook was least likely to be forgotten. You'll never fucking change. Change. Blank. Blank. That. Henry's was most likely to get his arm stuck in a candy machine.

That is. I thought that in court. I had to. I was like, this is like a new or searing my name. So after high school, Andrew enrolled at UC San Diego where he did very poorly. Instead of going to class, Andrew was either a nursing hangovers from party in the night before or playing hooky so he could hang outside of construction sites to ogle the workers. Well, yes, this is good. That's so, like, just throwing it back at him.

Can you imagine just an entire construction crew of pedophiles, just with like all the, they're all working with their old muscles. Just watching all the teenage boys going, I don't know, like, yeah, like lit their muscles around the jackdames and shit. Yeah, swing that hammer. You piece of shit. You like, I don't want it anymore. Where's the head of the crew?

Bring your mom back. Really, the lesson that Andrew was learning above all during college was that life could be relatively easy for a good-looking charming young gay man if you just found the right guy to take care of you. But as Andrew focused on who else, amen. Amen, brother. Say it again. But as Andrew focused on who else but older men who were usually closeted, he began to

realize how he could survive completely on charm and bullshit, rather than becoming an escort, which could have very easily gotten into that world. Andrew positioned himself as a quote unquote companion, put another way. Andrew was learning how to be a kept boy. And it's about, there's always a question about how purposeful actions are in anybody's life. I feel like something like this is like, do you set out to be a kept boy? Because again, doesn't sound really safe in there.

You know what I mean when you're kept all the time? But I feel like he might have just sort of moved that way. Well, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, But you must know that you are my boy and nobody else's boy and you must be there when I ask you to be there. Yeah, yeah, balloons will opportunity meets preparedness. Seneca. But in order to stay in the high social circles into which these older men were welcoming him,

Andrew found ways to blend in by knowing what forks to use at dinner or what political figures he could discuss to surprise people with his knowledge on foreign affairs. Phil, Phil or Bill Moore. Yeah, he was the 47th president and he was the first gay man to ever fire a cannon. It's pretty, it's pretty on the fucking money. If you dare double check me, I will fuck you. I'll just need you in the fucking head.

By 1987, Andrew found himself in the circle of a fraternal organization called Gamma Moo, which is kind of like the gay version of the Elk Slodge. I think the Elk Slodge is the gay version of the Elk Slodge. No. That's Columbus. We're gonna get sued. No. That's Kauwama's. We're going to get sued. No, no, no, that's gay businessmen. Yeah, we're going to get into the Shriners.

No, you can't tell me. Nobody has new two men with fezes. We haven't had full on doggy style on top of a pool table in most Elk Slodges across this country. So it turns out those red hats are just filled with comments. Well, today, Gamma Moo is an out and proud charity organization who gives scholarships to young LGBT kids and rural communities. It's a noble cause. Yeah. Their website has a distracting number of rainbows on it. Yeah. But back in Andrew

Koonanen's time, Gamma Moo was a did charity nonetheless, but it was made up mostly of wealthy, closeted men. And Andrew became a popular boy to pass around when he entered in 1987. But by like, he actually became a member in 1994, like a few years, but like after college, you know, when he was starting to get a much better at being like fancy boy into fancy man. Honestly, I prefer if you were going to pass me around, can get the spiral tight. Because I am sick of hitting my head on the fucking fan. All right, and ask first place. If we could, I'm sick of kissing all these strangers, but the acid pass. But through this rotating cast of lovers, Andrew eventually got into BDSM.

Oh, nasty. About time. Yeah, it's not nasty. Nasty. No, according to vulgar favorites. Nasty. Oh my god. Vulgar favorites.

Vulgar favorites. It just treated vulgar favorites. It's BDSM is like the worst thing leads to violence. It's so filthy and dirty. Only the worst people in the violence. It's so filthy and dirty only the worst people in the world engage in BDSM. It's because they haven't come ever. Like they just don't come.

You can get spanked, dog. Yeah. And we met the founders of kink.com and got damn where they nice people. BDSM probably curbs violence. Yeah, I don't know. You know what? I think it's completely separate.

I just think you could put clamps in your nipples and as long as you're doing it yourself or somebody who's going yeah, buddy, yeah, then like, you know, rock and roll. And it just leave me alone at the farmer's market. I'm sick of these guys trying to hang these clothespins off of me. Fucking impractical chokers. Well, Andrew said in his own purposefully shocking way that BDSM reminded him of what his father had done to him when he was a young boy. But I'm just, Mr. Molesto.

I don't know my father honestly while he was doing a Zekoluson. I know how to cover us here. I'll start smiling. Because they're in our honesty, you're down. Are you there? It's just bonding. And now maybe I can go from molesto sometimes. Every other time we'll be molesto.

How's about that? I appreciate you. Of course, I appreciate you. He's dead, right? Molesto? Yeah. I can't. Maybe.

We'll find out. We'll find out. Keep an eye on the mailbox. Not surprisingly, Andrew loved BDSM and he soon became a popular dom, although he could switch back and forth. Again, this is all allegedly allegedly. Meanwhile, Andrew's father, Modesto, was seeing that while lying about being successful is easy. Oh, yeah. Actually, being successful is pretty difficult in the stockbroker game.

Yeah. In fact, Modesto was like, okay, molesto was lucky. Every other time. He was lucky he didn't land in jail for the shit he pulled. See, Modesto wanted to indulge Andrew in all of his expensive taste the best he could, even when as far as to buy him this fancy Mazda. Oh yeah, he said, the only one you only one ever made in San Diego.

You only Mazda? Yeah, it's the only Mazda in San Diego. It was a nice Mazda, a form of like sports car Mazda. Yeah, that's a nice. It's the only Austin. Send me a nice model. Form of like sports car Mazda. Yeah. That's a nice. It's a real fancy Mazda. You know, it's like how you know, I love Subaru's

night. I only drive like Subaru outbacks, but then there's like these like really expensive like Subaru sports cars that people soup up. Who's like a living fuck would buy a Subaru sports car? I guess what

Elizabeth Warren turned 75. It's been. It's been. It's been noted. Hey, man, I'm telling you, there are, there's going to be so many emails about Subaru sports cars, Subaru racing cars. Super. They do a good job. They do racing cars. They do racing cars. We've just, yes, I have received the Subaru fam, like motions. I've seen every seat. Let's better than a fucking accurate. I'll tell you that much. Sure. We can agree on that. Fuck them. But the cash for all this shit, for the Mazda, for all the clothes, for everything,

came from embezzled funds. See, Molesco had a scheme where he'd take money from his clients. I'm still keeping it my head. I appreciate it. No, I'm following. You're gonna change it in my head. I appreciate it, no, I'm following. I'm gonna keep it in my head. You're gonna change it for next episode. They tell them, he would tell them that he was buying a stock, but the stock didn't exist. He just makes up, and then he'd keep the money for himself. And it's a dumb scam.

Yeah, because eventually, eventually, someone's going to say, hey, where's my money? Yeah. I remember when I worked at Dairy Queen, there was this one kid who would just steal out of the fucking register. And it's like, there is a process to steal it. Yeah. You know, like, you have to at least try to like do like some kind of process to steal it. It is a job to be a quote unquote professional criminal. Like, it's a job. It takes due diligence. And you didn't think about it, but that guy's probably now in like the house

of representatives or dead. It's Florida. Far more likely. No, I'm a, but I can't damn it. You know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a these schemes going at various firms for a couple of years, but you always get caught and you always get fired because I don't think he took very much money at a time because if you've got a client that's investing like $500, $600, $600,000 and you say, like, hey, there's this stock for, you know, like, bub-bump-bump. And then you can give me a thousand dollars, you know, and I'll put it in bub-bump-bump-bump-bump.

And he just sneaks it. Yeah, he just sneaks it in and they forget all about the stupid stock that he made. Or he probably then would send back fake returns where he'd go and he say, Oh, look, that's like Bernie. Right. That's Bernie made up, but I don't know if he even went that far. It's also interesting that within the world of stock brokers, the scamming so thick at this time, especially, and it's so prevalent that they, that they just treat you like a Catholic priest where they just kick you to another district.

Yeah. There's going, all right, well, you've done too many crimes to work here still, but you could go work over at Mr. T's fun stockhouse. Yeah, I was on garbage, but also when you're investing like five, what'd you grand and you lose $1,000, like you don't kind of care. You don't unless you're a psycho, unless you do care. Yeah, I mean, that's how you could fire.

Yeah, some people do pay attention. And it was usually when someone would pay attention, they would see like, oh shit. Yeah, this guy steal the money. And then if you're the guy who runs the company, you don't want the bad press of stock broker from such and such firm, just hanging out, arrested for, you know,

misappropriating funds. Well, pretty soon, molesto's wife, Mary Ann, realized that there must be some scam going on, but Modesto denied everything. He said that the securities business is the most regulated industry there is. And how could a man nominated in the 1986 California who's who of sock brokers ever be considered a failure. It turned out well, it turned out that wasn't real. It was more of a who's who of who's that because there was a.

Um, that, no, that was not real. And also technically, that was the same exact defense that our former president just gave. Yeah. He literally just said it being like, how can I possibly have cheated all these people? This is most regulated industry that they should have stopped me. Great. It's a great fucking country, man. You just got to figure out how to scam.

Yeah. But a failure he was. And after losing his last stock broker job for a misappropriating over $100,000, he sold his family home up from under his wife and moved back to the Philippines. Yeah, he even tell her you was doing it. He literally like, it's like, Kister to like a biblack, gonna work. Never saw him again. Sold everything. Sold the whole house left them with $700. Yeah. Now while his wife was shocked Andrew is it turned out had been the mastermind behind this plan all along. Now this is

according to one of the books. That doesn't in this one it says in vulgar favors. It says that that he didn't know right. So we don't know that it's one of those where the father was so up the ass of the son that they like Who knows I wouldn't put it past Andrew do have known but then there are you know, we'll find out because it didn't Brewing his life contradiction Well Andrew figured that he and his dad could move to the Philippines and start a business that had not yet been Determined. Yeah, that's always a good way to go in. Yeah, especially in the Philippines. All right, think about this. Drive through chicken and bullets. What if you could get gasoline in a bucket?

Change, what's your cell change? Change, change, change, give me any change. Give me any change. What we do know is that Marianne was understandably irate about the double betrayal, and it's here that we get the first taste of Andrew's capacity for violence. When Marianne accused Andrew and Modesto of conspiring against her, which they were, Andrew slammed her against a wall so hard that he dislocated her shoulder. See that again, Brits.

Yeah. Jesus Christ. From what the neighbor who saw the whole thing said it was a quick violent snap that just as quickly burned out because real Andrew came out. Yeah. That's the thing. This is well, this is one of those where you start to understand when the center is hollow, what the hollowness then becomes is something very bad. Like it is not, it never turns into a

fun hollow. Phil Hartman. I think he's the closest to a fun hollow. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're like, that's what I always said that there was no Phil Hartman. You know, I mean, like he was just this collection of characters that literally like, he was a very interesting kind of solitary man. But mostly when he wasn't on, he was just kind of quiet and he kind of just sat there, you know, he filled his hollowness with laugh with laughter. Well, that's what I try to do with the hollowness inside. But it is just filled with pure violence. Yeah. Violence, rage, usually it is. Yeah. There's probably a lot of violent things this guy did that we will never know about.

Oh, absolutely. Who knows? Yeah. Well, soon after that altercation, Andrew joined his father in the Philippines, where Andrew quickly discovered that he'd given up a relatively easy life in America to live in a shack much like the one that the nice Filipino lady in the most recent season before the 90 days lived in before her elderly mother fell and fatally broke her neck in the middle of filming because their shack was so dangerous. Wow. That's very it's extremely sad. It's extremely sad for television. The best couple on the season. They're probably the best couple that's very, it's extremely sad. It's extremely sad for television. The best couple on the season.

They're probably the best couple that's been on 90 day fiancee in, in year. Yeah, because there's real trauma on there. And that gives it the juice. No, it's because they're sweet and they obviously love each other. Oh, wow. And they're both kind people. Well, I'm watching Malfa's one. Oh, that's nice.

It's stupid. I saw naked attraction. I fucking hated it. Yeah, but I like seeing all the dicks and all the pussies. I saw it with, Oh, that's nice. It's stupid. I saw Nick in a traction. I fucking hated it. Yeah, but I like seeing all the dicks and all the pussies. I said, yes, that is the point of the show. Is there's dicks and pussies, but it's so hollow. Oh, wow, they really do show them. Oh, dude, it starts with like, there's just like,

in a little box and then they raise the front door and it's just like six cocks. I am the one who's like, get rid of that cock. I honestly think, when they show the ass, just to get rid of that ass. Wow. And then it goes up and it shows like, they're tits and they're stomachs show the ass just to get rid of that ass. Wow. And then it goes up and it shows like their tits and their stomach like, oh, that guy looks like shit get rid of that. It's the most superficial fucking show that ever existed. And then when they finally

talk, when they finally talk, they ask them what their least favorite part of their body is. Yeah. And it's like, it is the most super. I think I could tell if you're a good or bad person by your butt really yeah Well, if it's filled with shit, that's probably a bad sign or you've got luck going on stupid white Basically Andrew was living in third-world conditions with no electricity or running mom. Oh, yeah It's like people travel by chicken here I need out is there a hilton? No, he had to wash his clothes in a ditch and he bathed once a week in a public swimming

pool. And he soon discovered that Modesto's business was selling cast off junk on street corners. Just shit. It's so crazy. Yeah, honestly, I can't bring in a place where all of the cleaning is wet. I'm going to need some dry, absolutely dry because most of my stuff is silk. He, once he saw that his father,

it's like pop to massive bubble, right? Because again, his father was the, that fed him and fueled him. His father fed and fueled him of all his fantasies, this idea. And that was kind of the first time I think him sort of understanding like, oh, just because the fantasies there, and you're walking in the shoes

and in the clothes of the fantasy, really does it mean that it's real. Yeah. That's probably why he attacked his mother because he knew he was doing the wrong fucking thing. Well, he's starting to understand that like, all of these things that have been relatively harmless and these kind of little minor personal scams

have been running, have really not like affected my life in any way. And now I'm just kind of saying like, oh, this might be like for cereal. Yeah, like this might be pretty like all the real one. And he didn't want to face it. It's definitely a wake up call when your Mazda could switch

that with a Rickshaw. Yeah. It's like, I'm sick of this like two foot or stri- I can't have this. All right, I spelled my driver's ass. Well, Andrew quickly realized that he'd made a huge mistake, but had no money for a plane ticket back to America. He soon cooked up another scheme.

See as opposed to America, the Philippines has a unique view on gender and homosexuality that's fascinating, but far too complicated to go into here fully. It's a long, long history. We don't need to try to do it. I have a lot of experience with this. Let, please let Eddie explain the third gender in the Filipino community. I've gone from Lady Boy to woman men. But to put it in the context of our story, there's a third gender recognized in the Philippines

called Bacala, which is not transgender, but rather involves men who adopt a gender expression. That's feminine. Things are just more, they're more fluid there. They understand that more intrinsically. Far, yeah. People who identify as Bacala are mostly gay, that's feminine. Things are just more, they're more fluid there. They understand that more intrinsically. Far, yeah. People who identify as bakla are mostly gay, but not always. Yeah. And people who identify as bakla have been integrated into and accepted it by Filipino

culture long before the colonization of their land in the 16th century by the hated Spaniards. Damn. Oh, Spaniards. But Andrew Koonan and didn't care about any of that history. Instead, he took advantage by shaving his entire body, styling his hair into a short bulb, dawning a skirt, slapping on tights,

and climbing into some high pumps so he could present himself as a bakloss sex worker. I bet he looked great. Bugs Bunny. Actually, they did say that he looked pretty fantastic. Well, people... Like, there was some people that see some pictures and they're like, wow, heugs Bunny. Actually, they did say that he looked pretty fantastic. Well, people, like, there was some, that some people did see some pictures and they're like, wow, he truly, it was a shape shifter. Yeah. And he understood what he needed to do.

I mean, I mean, again, this is conjecture. So because that guy who wrote the other book is way more like, yeah, way more into the, the sexual history of ancient canon. We're like, this doesn't cover any of that stuff. This is way more of the other side of the shape shifting. When you see what he does, I wouldn't put it past him necessarily. Yeah. And so after three months earning cash as a fake bakla, Andrew had saved up enough money to pay for a one way ticket back to San Diego. By this time though, his father couldn't have cared less whether Andrew stayed or went

in their relationship more or less ended there. After San Diego lost its charm, Kunanan moved to the center of American gay culture by relocating to the Castro district in San Francisco in 1989, when the AIDS crisis was at its absolute worst. As a simple fancy boy from San Diego, however, Kunanan found that the tightly net gay scene in San Francisco didn't have much interest.

So Andrew created the first of his more attention grabbing characters. God God. See, Andrew Kunanan had learned street magic in Manila. And in between clients, he'd refined and perfected those skills. And watch. We'll see. As I go, pay attention to the hands.

Pay attention to the hands. The hands. There's a pigeon in my butt. Yeah, that's that easy. Oh, well, seemed to have exfesciated, but it's because it was weak. And so Koonan imposed as a naval officer on leave who

casually performed magic tricks in bars. Yeah, I like some people call me a naval officer on leave who casually performed magic tricks and bars. Yeah, I like some people call me a naval officer, but I prefer myself more of a belly button man. This persona was not so suddenly named Lieutenant Commander Cummings. Ah, yes. It's a great catch phrase. Oh, see more of our NFS's. yeah, not in fungible sounds. Yeah, I like that one Hey, that's a good one. Thank you

Noises with the boys episode. I'm your great. But the thing about Kuhnannon is that when he adopted a new persona, he went all then when he became Lieutenant Commander Cummings, he wore a military crew cut worked on his biceps and got a tan just as a man who spent his days in the open sea might. And I spray salt on me. It's not just the come.

My name is Lieutenant Commander penis coming. And I can stand to attention. Yeah, that is not that much. Not that much easier. Hard real. We're still at the hot box for the given a veneer of reality, each character even had their own quirks. Cummings, for example, claimed to never drink and refused all offers to buy a drink, saying that his worst vice was the occasional cigar, which is, of course, another phallic reference.

Nothing I looked at, got a nice long thick brown cube and now I just snap the ends of it all. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and was himself Lieutenant Commander Cummings or his Latino persona, Andrew De Silva. Nobody in the scene knew that these were all the same person. And that's a really smart thing if you're trying to run a bunch of scams. You're trying to do a bunch of other fucked up shit because then no one can, no one's doing the, because small communities cross reference. Yeah, right.

I think people will ask me, have you met this fucking guy? If you see this thing, it's like, if you're five different guys. Now, do you think he met the same person in different characters and they didn't notice? Absolutely. Again, because they're having too much fun to give a shit that you're running an arcane series of minor personal scams, right?

They're more just like, all right, you know, you know, you've meet these like weird kind of like, we've met these guys. I also know you said dark bars, you know, and they shit like that. You know, so you're not paying it to your drunk, you know, you don't know that, you know, so you're not paying it that you're drunk, you know, you don't know who you're meeting and you're half hammered. Yeah. And I mean, that's they always said about Ted Bundy. Yes. That's why Bundy's like, if you look at every sketch of Ted Bundy, every single one of them is wildly different. Wow. And when people would describe him, they describe him wildly different ways. And if you look at different pictures of him, like he looks different

in almost every picture. Yeah. And they found him because of his teeth, right? No, but they convicted him because of his teeth. Oh, yeah. He had to escape from jail. But that point once he had escaped from jail, like that was when he, they, they, they, he went into full berserk remote. That was, they had a lot on him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a, it was the matching the teeth to the one of the bite marks in the Tallahassee, you know in the Florida state Murder. Yes, but what was clear was that Kunaan could instantly judge what cover story a stranger would accept from the moment He met them which would have made him an incredible con man if he wasn't so erratic and short-sighted or literally just a legit Salesman yeah now to make ends meet in San Francisco while he waited for the perfect older man to take care of him.

Kunan and got a job in a restaurant kitchen, but soon found he could make money on the side selling weed. What a monster. What a despicable person. Who would ever, who would ever do such a thing? That's how it was about to say. What did you do, Ed? I believe that was your life exactly.

What did you do? But soon, Koonanum began to realize that if you wanted to attract the upper class in San Francisco, he had to appear more conservative and mature. He couldn't be a fucking dude working at a B-Dub hanging out with a bunch of sketch comedians. Hey, yeah, hey hell yeah, but sometimes it leads to more of that Using his fancy boy persona Andrew weaseled his way into the San Francisco Opera House on a frequent basis where he allegedly mingled with who else but Robin Williams. And crap. Very cool. Oh, this is where I think it's absolute horsesha. I think it's entirely horsesha.

I think he did not meet Gianni Versace at all. Well, from what friends later said, Kunanan was obsessed with Versace. And as the story goes, Kunanan met the fashion designer after the opening of a Strauss opera named Capricio, whatever man, which you read the fucking, you read the exit from it at the top of the episode.

I rather have, I thought Capricio was that thing with the flat meat. Yeah. Carpaccio. Carpaccio. Carpaccio, yes, Ali. This is the final opera that Strauss ever wrote and it begged the question, which is the greater art.

Poetry or music? Who gives a fuck a shit? Music, music. Yeah, no one likes poetry. But also poetry is in music. Yeah, yeah. So what is it? What is it? Fucking matter. It's the same shit. Ah, but does that not beg the question of another of questions?

Carpaccio. of questions. Carpachio. But regardless of opera themes, Koonan and told his friends that he met Versace and that the meeting had gone great. Great. Of course. And it went great. Versace allegedly asked Koonan

and if they'd met before. Perhaps at a house party on Lake Como. Yes, Jury Johnny. Versace was absolutely interested in this man. He just met. There's no way. He was very tight bodied. He was fine.

Johnny Versace was around every single supermodel man that ever was. He was an extremely powerful person. He was also extremely like, they're like a mob family. Like they were all like, like the idea of them even being he was five feet of Gianni Versace was probably extremely difficult. And Kunaan, and of course, emphatically said, yes, you do know me from that lake party at Lake Como. Do you remember when we called it Lake Como? Do you remember? So were those my other guy painted them. And a short conversation was had before Versace shook them off like every celebrity did after two minutes in Andrew's presence.

He latched on and then like get this fucking guy away from him. Have you ever seen the old project runway of Heidi Klum? So you know how like they used to have every single every contestant of every reality story was to have some sort of like sob story. Of course, I think some kind of tragedy. Yeah. And so having somebody tell like looking at Heidi Klum's face while someone's trying to be like, you know, my, my brother, he lost his legs and, and a car accident and she's just going, you know, like, I love Heidi. I don't care. They don't care. They just like,

they are very, they know what they, they're like, okay, they've heard it all before. They've heard it all. very they know what they they're like, okay, they've heard it all before they've heard it all they've heard it all that counter, however, if it did happen, it would be the last time that the two of them would see each other until Kunanan showed up at Versace Miami home seven years later with a Taurus 40 caliber handgun. That's a big gun. I wish it was a very small gun. Really? Yeah. Well, really. I wish it was cupcakes. We'll get into it. But yes, it's a, it's actually made for concealed carry. Oh, okay. Now for a while, Kunanan was heavily involved in the San Francisco gay BDSM. Yes. Acting as a master at clubs like Hellbound. Oh, Sodom. Okay. My favorite. Bundid Jagogo so you guys um you guys do like a wing night

But did you go go they might hey listen to anybody playing the game in here? Cuz the Pacers are on I don't know if you're oh Goodness me I'm getting wet Thought that this was gonna be a nice I honestly at, I saw a hellbound into my brain saw, Benniggans. I thought I was about to get a Monti crystal. What you told me we were going to play darts. I didn't know I was the board. I mean, he kept eating the 20.

Man, he's good. It was even rumored back in the day that there were two low budget Andrew Koonan and BDSM pornflicks circulating around San Francisco in which Koonan and adopted the slate position and got gang banged and staged rape scene. There's a lot of people that are honestly on it was really some of this and you know, obviously it was pretty extreme. But in one I played a guy named Sean and honestly it was like that was just kind of a good exploration for me. It was nice to step outside of myself. And then the other one where I played it was named Sean and honestly it was like that was just kind of a good Exploration for me was nice to step outside of myself and then the other one where I played

It was called Thunder Down Under and I played a guy called the Gork Really what on it? They gave me a line which was amazing which was I thought I was pretty good. Barely tell it, it wasn't getting rafed. So I was very early, Charles. That's how good I was. They were a bit heavy-handed at times. But even though people on various message boards have claimed to have seen, at least one of these videos, no evidence of their existence has ever surfaced.

Until now, here we go. How? How? How? Hey, now, hey. Joel is such a great researcher. Oh, yeah, no, I'm the goal. He did actually look. He did like that was one of his notes.

He was like, yeah, there's a couple of guys on message board. So they saw I couldn't find it. No, man, I got he looked. I mean, if there was, I mean, if there was an Andrew Koonan and gangbang like staged rapes, we would see it at this. We would all know about it. Boy George has a copy of this. Right here. It is anywhere. It is on a real, the real in his basement. I don't want to go anywhere near that rumpus.

Eventually though, Koonan and moved back to San Diego in the summer of 1991 to live with his mother. Her life had not gotten any better since Modesto had sold the house from underneath her and she spent most of her time chain smoking while idly threatening to kill herself. Oh, can you monetize that? Yeah. Thinking about that. Strangely though, when Kunanan took on his next persona, it was that of a poor history student at UC San Diego who wanted nothing more than to educate himself, but did not have the means to do so. Well, he went humble. Well, I mean, it could be one of two things. It could be that he was experimenting. It could also be that he did not, he did

not have Modesto anymore there to give him cash. He didn't have a sugar daddy set up yet And so he had no choice, but he still could not be Andrew Koon on it. He's definitely just be some guy. He could have got a job. Yeah He got one of those once. Yeah, like how you know what though? It sucks. Yeah, so I understand. Oh, yeah No, no one's ever paid me to just be there No, you know most of the the time I have to be working where they ask me to leave. Yeah, do something.

I was gonna say you guys are kind of pay a million to do that. Yeah, it's like a special set of circumstances. But once Cunanan found another older man to support him, this time with an allowance of $2,000 a month, the poor college student routine was dropped and Cunanan went wild with aliases. Yeah, because that's boring.

Yeah. On one night, you might meet Kurt Matthews Demaris. On another, you'd meet Drew Cunningham. And every once in a while, Andrew would bring back lieutenant commander Cummings. I know, always find ejaculation to be so horrible is the two of you. No, it's just because it can sometimes be a you see no most of the time it's like God, I'm just just my poor wife. Yeah, no, it's usually comes with a sorry.

Yeah, you know what it is. It's like it's that moment because like you know, I'm not silent, but it's not like, you know, you I don't do I'm just like, yeah, you know what it is? It's like, it's that moment because like, you know, I'm not silent, but it's not like, you know, you, I don't do it. I'ma go. I'ma do that on the show. I've been real life. It's mostly just like, yeah, oh, no. I'm not in love. I love it.

I love it. But mostly, Kunanan had settled into an aristocratic persona as a man who wore blazers and ascots. He boasted a degree from Yale and talked endlessly about his interest in imported antiques. One of the strangest short chapters in this story, though, is Andrew's claim that in 1994 he met and secretly married a young Spanish woman as a part of a green card scheme. Yeah, her name was Hermannita Lito, and she was brown hair. And I just loved it.

From a Andrew told his friend, Henry Brunt, he did a favor by marrying this woman, but somehow fell in love and got her pregnant. I honestly, especially having six feet across the room, I don't know how it even happened, must have been Jesus. Well, and that's the other thing too, is he said that they didn't get an abortion because they were both Catholic.

Ah, very nice. Supposedly, Andrew tried giving it a go and got an honest job at a drug store as a clerk. But that went south when people started recognizing Lieutenant Commander Cummings. Oh, no matter. Andrew De Silva stocking the fucking shelves at the local drug store.

Yeah. That job only lasted a month. And as soon as the baby was born, supposedly, Kunan and drop that act and resumed his hunt for the perfect sugar daddy. So is there a baby? No, it's possible. It is possible. There's some rumors that it really was this woman that he ended up hanging out with later. These people he ended up hanging out with later. He kind of he kind of formulated a story after the fact. Part of me wonders again, I just don't trust.

I really do think in many ways. He's sitting at night in a chair silently, like he goes home after playing nine different versions of himself and he sits and he's an amazement of all of his different plot lines. And he sits and he literally goes over him like he's doing dumb shit TV reenactments for Vulture or whatever. Where he's just like sitting and like, oh yeah, and I did that. And I did that. And he's continuing the storylines for himself at night because I don't think that there's anything but his own biography flying through his head at all time. And then just blank. Yeah. See, I want to know. So you are Andrew Kinnan and spester child, please write in it For a while that perfect sugar daddy was a millionaire in his late 60s named Norman Blaschford

It's a very strange name Blaschford. Yeah, I've never heard of it before. Yeah He made Kunanan his kept boy on an allowance of $2500 a month. That's all set, Ray. He's moving up. See, as far as Blashford knew, Kunanan was a half Portuguese, Jewish, half Filipino, who'd spent two years in the Israeli military, but had been pushed out of his family after they discovered he was gay. I would just push out of the family, actually pushed me out of a hot air balloon.

I love it. It was a horrible wedster. I do love how his characters get more creative every time. This is getting better at it. He keeps blowing it up because it gets the axiom which every of these stupid con artists believe, which is the more ludicrous, the more real it sounds. It does.

I now understand that, no, most people have very simple lives, because if they had that incredible life, they'd be on television. But you wanna believe it. You know, if you wanna be, you're excited, you just met such an interesting person. Sure, it's like, it's an anecdote you wanna share

with somebody else, you know what I mean? And that's what he's kind of keying into, is this idea of like, oh, you're going to want to tell other people about me. Yeah. But what do you want to do is you want to give yourself like quirks, like really, like, but you don't necessarily need like interesting quirks. Like you need to know like a lot about like the 1976 lineup of the Cleveland Browns.

Yeah. It's like, I don't like onions. Yeah. That guy he doesn't like onions. Yeah. You know, I don't know Neil was probably on that team. Really? Yeah, he played for one't like onions. Yeah, you know, I don't know. Neal was probably on that team. Really? Yeah, he played for one season as a Cleveland Brown. Wow. You're fucking fraud, man. I can see it. You're con man. Yeah. But Blashford wasn't closeted. He and Kunan and went to the Symphony together and took frequent trips to Paris all while Kunan and went to the symphony together and took frequent trips to Paris. All while Kunan and was supplied with a checkbook-sized wallet filled with credit cards. That however wasn't enough for Kunan.

He was soon seeing another old wealthy man named Lincoln Aston. This was risky because if Norman Blaschford discovered the affair, the allowance, trips, and fancy dinners would come to an abrupt halt. My god these men have fucking old rich men names. They really do Lincoln, Austin. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no want, but then this is the problem with the never ending whole of having either for some form of psychopathy or some form of anti-social personality disorder, where you can't get it up anymore once it gets too boring. I can't just relax. You probably could still be with Blashford if it was doing it right.

It's called eventually it's just called the nice relationship. Yeah. Blashford, I don't think survived the 90s. No. No, very old. Then he really should have stuck it out. Exactly. Exactly. Then you get to be. It's you and the beach on freeze get to live. This is a kind of life together. We didn't do anything. Well, the relationship with Lincoln Aston ended quite abruptly in 1995 when Aston was found bludgeon to death with a stone

obelisk in his own home. Now, according to author Winsley Clarkson, that murder was penned on a mentally challenged drifter who confessed at a Colorado police station in 1996. But while you think that Kunanan might have killed Aston to prevent Blaschford from discovering their affair, Aston was actually at the time trying to make Kunanan go away with a $30,000 bribe. Even more intriguing is that Kunnan would brag to people that he'd been with Lincoln on the night of his death. He said that he had been the one to find the body.

So if Kunnan and did kill Aster, it would have been more likely that he'd done so because he'd been rejected. I actually push back. I don't think that he killed before he started his spree. That's why I said, if, I'm just saying, I think he killed, I don't think he killed after either. I'm just saying, if, yes, I think that he did see that he got killed and was like, I don't give a shit.

Yeah, I think that he learned a little lesson in his own little fucked up head of being like, you know, if I have to just get rid of somebody, maybe feel somebody would be blaming the blame on somebody else. Yeah, that was like the first time I saw a murder fish. You guys were great. You did a good job. And I was like, I could do that. Yeah. Well, as far as Blaschford went, that relationship ended during a trip to Europe where Koonanan demanded Blasford by him a Mercedes SL 600 priced at $126,000. He was obsessed with Mercedes. Blasford refused, but since Koonanan had snared two big sugar daddies in a row, he most

likely figured he could catch a third just as easily. So he left Blasford as soon as they returned to American soil. Now, while it might seem that Andrew Koonan and only slept with wealthy old men, he did also have relationships and friendships with men his own age. One of those in the friendship realm was a sailor named Jeff Trail,

who'd known Koonan since 1992. This is the one he was gonna do for love. Yeah. So this happened to, we know that he met him while he was in this kind of like long, very, whatever you'd call their relationship, right? And there was like a thing in here where you're like, maybe our true, consider down. You know what I mean? Like in his head, like, well, you know, I've never been me, but maybe somebody else can

see me. Mm-hmm. Do you think that he knew him as Cummings? Because he was also in the Navy? No, he knew him as Andrew Kunanan. Okay. He always knew him as Andrew Kunanan. Like it was sort of a casual, I think they like casually met each other at a gay bar. But Jeff, he was deeply in the closet.

He was in the Navy. And this was in the days before even like Don't Ask Don't Tell. Yeah. But he was still in the Navy. Yeah. Ah, this is fuel the letters. And the freedom the Koonan and enjoyed concerning his sexuality made trail more comfortable with his own sexuality.

In other words, being around Andrew was fun and it made Jeff feel good about himself. Because like Jeff, he was an all-American boy, you know, quarterback in high school, military man, his main ambition was to be a cop. He wanted to be a chip. Yeah. Yeah. So he was like, especially in like 1992, like, you know, today, that's cool. That's okay.

But in 1992, like, that's impossible for a guy like that to come out as gay. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah And he it's interesting because one of the big fantasies that Andrew Cunan and grew up with was that he wanted to kind of wanted to be White like he kind of had this fascination about like being blonde haired blue-eyed like that style of maybe the all-American boy all-American boy So if you like there's like something in that where it's like maybe this is my way to have my good old-fashioned Like you know is strong man. Yeah, you like, there's like something in that where it's like, maybe this is my way to have my good old fashioned, like, you know, it's strong, man. Yeah. You know, but Jeff also loved guns. More than a few times, Jeff would take Andrew out shooting oftentimes with a Taurus 40 caliber that was made specifically to be a concealed carry handgun with its streamlined

ergonomic design and rugged compact polymer frame. You'll find the Taurus G2 series strikes the perfect balance between comfort and confidence in any situation. All right, Texas. Now, wasn't we didn't even get that. That's not an ad. That was straight from the Taurus website. There's still selling the G2 series today. But all right. So it's a small gun, but isn't a big bullet? Um, 40 caliber is big, right? It's a small gun. I don't, man, it's okay. Gum people go get mad right now and send some of this. I don't know. But all I know is that I looked at the 40 caliber, the tourist 40 caliber on the website. It looked very small. They said they marketed it as a compact handgun. I don't know. Maybe the G2 is a different kind.

Maybe the G2. Who fucking, you know, is the combat. I'm not getting in the middle of any of these gunships. Maybe there's another one. Maybe it was a really big fucking gun back then. I don't know. If you want to send us a Taurus 40 caliber, you can just leave it in the mailbox with a single rose tied around it. That'd be great. Even though Kunanan constantly tried to push trail into a sexual relationship, trail kept it platonic because he had a steady boyfriend when he met Andrew. And even after trail and the boyfriend broke up, Kunanan had already been thoroughly

friendsoned. Even so, when trail decided to move to Minnesota, Koonanan was as shocked, angered, and heart broken as if they were lovers. And that rage would come around with full force less than a year later. It's really interesting because I think that when these types of guys feel like they finally revealed themselves, and they were some form of what they consider to be vulnerable, right? So in some level, he believes, Andrew Kanan and thinks that his real self is so precious

and so wonderful that you, if he shows anyone, that's what he hates all people, right? He believes he's above everyone anyway. So he doesn't want to grant you this real personality. He hates all people, right? He believes he's above everyone. Yeah. And away. So he doesn't want to grant you this real personality. So when he does, and then you reject it, he then is kind of set loose. Yeah. And away. Now, since Kunanan was between sugardates, he started selling downers and bars.

But he by this point, bit a pretty steady math user for years. According to Kunanan's math dealer, who for some reason went on the record with the author of Volker favors. He's just love. Kunanan would buy up to $4,000 of math a month, either use or sell. Well, you know, again, I'm going to put a compound assault in that too. It's more like if you got drugs, the way they put it in vulgar favors was kind of interesting where it's like, there's something about being in a guy

that will connect to other guys. Yeah. You know a guy and you don't have to go through all these other stuff. I'll just show you my guy and then you kind of get more societal favors because you're like a guy that makes easy connections and you know, you don't have to go through all this trouble to find a legit dealer or anything. I love giving drugs for my friends. You know, that was a thing. It's really nice to give drugs to your friends. Hey, I got some extra mushrooms here.

Have a few. It's like, oh my God, you have some. I would love to get that for you. Yeah. Well, Andrew also started getting a little slimeier by this time, trading knowledge and drugs for access and travel. It was rumored that Kunanan would drug men with ketamine and secretly record them having sex

while the victim was in a K-hole, and that video would then be used for blackmail. Incredibly though, during all this casual sex when the AIDS crisis was at its height, Kunanan never contracted HIV, although he somehow convinced himself that he had, and this is sort of the crux of this story. See in January of 1997, about four months before his killings free, Andrew Kunanan very quickly

began to unravel. He was suffering from a myriad of minor illnesses that just wouldn't go away, which is sometimes an early sign of an HIV infection. Now, all this is a little muddy, but according to an AIDS counselor named Mike Dudley, Kunanan came into his office just to talk. Dudley had no access to Kunanan's record, so he asked Kunanan if he was HIV positive. But from what it seems like, Kunanan took this as Dudley telling him that he was HIV positive. At the mere question about his infection status,

Koonan and subsequently lost his shit, kicking walls and screaming that if he ever found out who did this to him, he was gonna get him. Yeah, he was freaking out. And he all, again, there was this, he was obsessed with it. And he, there was something about it

because I think it's because it wasn't under his control. And he felt that he'd let somebody in under his control or whatever. So that's kind of a natural reaction though. Oh yeah, I'd freak the fuck out of him. Yeah, I know, yeah. So I would lose my mind if someone's like, you got it, so I'm like, fuck it, Jerry.

Jerry, get it, Jerry! Jerry! Loose lips and chips, Jerry. No, the riskiest thing I ever did was like, I seriously thought I had HIV when I first moved to college because I was living a risky life. Yeah. And I was having some of those.

You doing intravenouss? No, no, no, no, just having a lot of like, I was in risky life. Not into getting pegged. No, you take the AIDS from getting pegged. It depends on where the peg was. Yeah, it's the pose. So, but let's just say my lymph nodes were swollen

and I was quite nervous. Wow. Yeah. I think we're all very lucky. Yeah, and I just find it. Yeah. Yeah, and I took, and I actually like got my like AIDS, like my HIV test results like at work.

Oh, great. Yeah, called me up. And, but thankfully it was not good. Let me look to, so let us just miss your yeah. Great. Yeah, called me up. And, but thankfully it was not good. Let me look to, is this Mr. Parks? Let me just look to the papers. He just here like them. Let me just see if this results.

Ah, oh my God. Oh, no, sorry. This is Marcus Sharks' paper. Let me look at you. He's dead. Oh my fucking God. Oh my God. Now this is Marcus Stark's paper.

And there's both fucking offices. I'm in the onion offices on the fucking phone like with all the other interns. Just fucking tell me. You know, if you're positive, they're just gonna write an article about it. Can I use that? But that's the thing,

is that Dudley finally calmed Andrew down. But after Kronan and left, Dudley got the clear impression that Andrew was HIV positive. Andrew wasn't HIV positive. Autopsie reports later showed that he definitely wasn't HIV positive. But somehow he got it in his head. He convinced himself that he was HIV positive. And I think this was just sort of an excuse. Well, and then everything's running out, right? Everything's done. Everything's done.

Things are starting to fall truly quickly fall apart for him. Because you know, you remember he also had that couple that he kind of broke up with. There was like, there's a couple they put in the whole fucking side. There's a whole side quest that he had a whole family that he was sort of like, he was the Godfather of these two kids and he was raising them that fellow part two. All of these other things, she's kind of fell apart and fell apart and it got to the point where like,

when you're just breaking down to the nothingness that is Andrew. So do you think he was actually sick all the time or is he just kind of making it up in his head? He probably does have, I mean, he fucking did math all the time. Yeah, he was probably fucking sick. Yeah, he's probably hung over and then what do you know as we get older?

Is it like it gets less fun? Like each time we're getting less fun, but it's not the same many more. It's true. Yeah. But according to Andrew Koonan and his friends, his personality changed as 1997 began. He became angry, bitter and irresponsible, even more so than usual, because he believed that someone had purposefully infected him with HIV.

Using this as an excuse to garner some sympathy, Kunanan traveled to Minnesota to visit his friend Jeff Trail, the one that rebuffed Andrews advances and had a taste for handguns. It was here in Minnesota, during the death of winter, the Kunanan would coincidentally bump into an old boy boyfriend from San Diego named David Madsen. And soon Kunanan, Madsen and Trail, they were all hanging out. They formed a little, a quick little circle of friends. And also before he did this, he had like a big goodbye party that he called the last

supper. That was like he invited all the last like party heads out that he had been with in a long time. And they were all sort of like, this kind of feels like a funeral. Like it kind of feels like he'sed all the last like party heads out that he had been with in a long time. And they were all sort of like, it kind of feels like a funeral. Like it kind of feels like he's doing something really. It's like fucked up. Because he was just like, you know,

I'm just going to Minnesota. I'm just gonna go hang out for a while. You know how it is. You know how it is going to the dead center of Minnesota. Really enjoying the middle of winter. Yeah, I like, yeah. Well, whilst out on the town one night in Minneapolis, though, Koonanan had his third encounter with a celebrity.

This one we know is true. This is real? Yeah, this one's real. Like, this one is absolutely real. It was like witnessed by multiple people. For some reason, Lisa Kudrow was out and about at the height of her famous Phoebe Buffet. This is 1997.

Yeah. Honestly, that's where you can party. Yeah. You can party in Minneapolis. You can party in St. Paul. Yeah. You know, she loves this. Oh, she loves this.

It was like the guy that faked it. It was the cause player named Flux Skywalker. That's like, you know, hung out with Mark Hamill a bunch. And they got busted for being a massive pedophile. And these pictures are like him and fucking, you know, like Liam Neeson, and all these other people hanging out, like, God, they must love this photo album. Yeah. Andrew Kannon also claimed that while he was selling meth, he once ran into like David

Geffen and started and hung out with David Geffen. Oh, sure. You haven't gotten fucking fired at a silent record. Definitely him. He actually came straight out, he was like, I did not hang out with that guy. Yeah. He got to.

Yeah, well, it probably did. But Koonan and of course, cornered Kudro and clung to her desperately. I would have done the same thing. I love Koonan. So, did you write Smiley Cowder? Was that on the right? Did you make that up?

Is your real name, Phoebe? But it ruined KUJRO's night. You would have been a great companion. How are you doing? How are you doing? How you doing? Remember from your show? How are you doing?

Listen, KUJRO, right? Is that monkey real? Is that monkey real? Is that real monkey? Is it KUJROro or a coup d'ro? But that's the thing is that, you know, as you do, when you get the dud at a party, Kudro kept looking around while Koonan and went on and on just desperately hoping that someone would come rescue her.

No one would. Well, you would write all this, you know, you would be talking about neoclassical antiques and talking about his fucking garbage and opera and like he was always doing all that. Yeah. What story is this? Like, did she not tell it people? Well, it was a guy, it was a writer who was there. Like, so who saw the whole thing because they said that like she'd try to like sort of talk to somebody else or like get away and Kuhnana would like tap on her shoulder, like, hey, we're not done with our conversation yet. Like you need to keep talking to me, uh, just radiating bad vibes. Yeah. And the more Kudro tried getting away, the more irritated and persistent Kuhnana became. Finally, after dealing with them for like an hour, Kudro

told him that she was going to the bathroom, old trick, just fucking went home. Oh yeah. Oh, you'll Kudro goodbye. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. According to people who were there though, after Kudro and realized he'd been snubbed by Lisa Kudro, his face was full of rage. Oh, you fucking giant friends,

you giant sight fell was bad. Ha ha ha ha. Sidebarrel was better. The sight fell was better. TV! TV stopped me! And one person described the look on his face as thunderous. Wow. In other words, Kunanan's fury was beginning to boil over.

He would soon after return to San Diego for a few months, but he wasn't done with Minneapolis just yet. He returned in April of that year. And by the time he left, David Madsen and Jeff Trail were both dead at Koonanon's hands. And that will be where we pick back up for part two. This is a long ass story, man. Like, you know, we just got into it. We are just kind of setting up who this guy is.

Next week, we're going to watch these dominoes fall all the way down to South Beach. It's kind of crazy just how it was a massive across the country crime spree that this guy did. He legitimately very frightening. I find Andrew Cunanan very frightening. Yeah. I think it's because of you meet so many of these types in our industry and like a lot of them end up being kind of fine. You know, most of them find hangers on the kind of like, develop into other stuff, but like there's just something about that, you know, because the fan, the Westlis types Robert Teneiro, we just got a he's just decided to become a human tornado. And there's really not much you can do about that. And that's the thing about, you know, like these days, I guess, some a lot harder to do, but, you know,

especially back then, like America is so fucking big. The reason why people get caught when they murder someone is because they stay in one place. Yeah, hard to leave, especially if you're broke. Yeah, but if you're someone like Andrew Koonan and who's extremely resourceful, like you murder someone, you can leave and you can be three states away

in a day. Two different people. Oh yeah, and you're somebody else now. You're a Lieutenant Cummings. Yeah, yeah. You can be somebody else and you can just keep going and keep going until you decide it's over. Now I know that it's bad to kill people.

Thank you. But I thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Do miss a time when you could get away with crimes. Sure. And like I feel like that's over. You know what, I would say. It's when you could get away with crimes. Sure. And like, I feel like that's over. You know what?

It's really hard to get away with crimes these days. The only thing that's true is that the bus is still the last truly anonymous way to travel. Oh my God, dude. It really is. I remember one time I was riding fucking Greyhounds, and it was just like, is this one going north? And you just throw your bag in there.

Oh yeah, you could still go buy it with cash. You might still not. Now you might need to put your name on a ticket. I don't remember. I don't, I'd spend a while since I got on a bus, but I do know that when I was taking a lot of gray hounds between like Rochester and Texarkana when I was doing like journeyman construction, like I definitely met the most criminals I've ever met in my life. Oh my God.

And those bolt buses, I mean, you just need a fake email address. You can get on anything. Oh yeah, I mean, this was truly, I mean, this is like 1999. So those are the days when you truly did just hop on. And that bus from Texarkana to Abelene, that was, the first stop was the prison in Texarkana. Yeah.

Yeah, so every time you go to Abelene, there's gonna be a guy that's taking that bus from Texarkana. Yeah. Yeah, so every time you go to Abelene, there's gonna be a guy that's taking that bus from Texarkana to Dallas. Yeah, and he's might sit right next to you and you might ask you to help him steal a car in Dallas. Hey, man, again, it's called making friends. You gotta open your heart to people. You never know you're gonna be out in that open road.

Yeah. Do you remember when Rikers would just like unload buses of people at the Port Authority? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember that. It was crazy. Yeah, man. Here's fingers crossed. They do it again.

Guys, you don't want to check us out. Go to Veebs.com slash LPO TL. We want you to, if you're here to make it to the LPN Beach Blanket Bingo, you can watch your fucking house. October 20th, you can watch it. So go to Veebs.com slash LPO TL and you'll be able to buy those at home streaming tickets. It's going to be fun fucking show.

We're encouraging people to wear costumes because it's Halloween time. It's Halloween time. Please wear costumes. We're gonna do a big thing there. Also, we got Atlanta. I'm gonna be there October 11th. Next Tuesday, see me there.

It's at the atldonnerparty.com. I'm going to be hosting a dinner party where it's cannibal themed. We're not eating human meat legally. I have to say that. It is going to just look like human meat But come out to a mozza and Atlanta. It's gonna be really fun. I know I don't know what I'm doing I know I'm gonna be yelling at people while they cool. Oh, yeah, and that's what best Nice, I'm gonna do we doing the I'm doing the New York comedy festival. I'm oh, yeah

I'm open for take up an end up for the ride Jeff's one-man show. So come check that out I can't wait. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Oh, that's awesome. You're going this weekend. No, the first week in November I'll be there the first week in it's gonna be a unbelievable We just did it in Boston at the Wilbur theater. It's honestly best show we've ever done together Yeah, it sounds great. I honestly I can't wait to see yeah, all right. Hail sweet. Say hello guys. Hey algae Be good to yourself. Be good to yourself. And be good to me.

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