Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 551: Andrew Cunanan Part III - Welcome to Miami

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

This week the boys reach the final stop in the story of Andrew Cunanan's multi-state killing spree, concluding in glamorous Miami Beach, where he would go on to commit his final, most notorious murder... shortly before meeting his own cowardly fate.

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey there dudes and do-dets, time to wax up your boards and go catch the big wave over at the LPN beach. Like it. Bingo! One night only at the Balboa Theater in San Diego October 20th, come and check out all of the cool cats and the crazy dog. And LPN, every show, the entire network, each one, pulsating and grinding in front of you for your entertainment pleasure.
Starting point is 00:00:34 We're all gonna catch the big guna. And I'm talking about that big greasy guy. I'm talking about a wave. G-E-W-C-W-E-W-E-W-E-W-E-W. Just so you know, it's gonna be inside of a way. Can you see me? It's see me! Just so you know, it's gonna be inside of a theater. So when physical whetness you experience is your own personal body heat or the sweat of one of the performers.
Starting point is 00:00:55 For live stream tickets, go to slash LPL to watch from the comfort of your own home. Again, that's slash LPL. Kakao! Come and check it out. I'm certain if there's a podcast flavor you need on your tongue, we got the spoon for it. Beachfunk at Bingo, baby.
Starting point is 00:01:17 Come on, girls, let's bet! There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk on the left. That's when the cannonball is started. What was that? I just also, why do they always say boy? They do always say boy. Oh, they could be 30. Oh, yeah, but you just have to be tight.
Starting point is 00:01:50 I think boy in certain places in South Beach is just about way size. Yeah, it's a compliment. It is about 28 to 30 is my way size. That's a boy. I have boy way, I mean, I'm 40 and I could, I believe I could still pass off as being called boy. I, hmm, you're tall. I think you're, you're serious.
Starting point is 00:02:12 Yeah, you're getting on twink right now. Yeah, that is, yeah, that is true. I'm getting, well, and I still maintain that I'm a thinner, hotter. You're becoming the untwinked. It is, it's slowly happening to you. I'd say, I feel like I'm in. I think it's called twink death.
Starting point is 00:02:25 I think is the term. I didn't even know if I'm allowed to say that. Can I say the word twink? Twink death. Yeah, you can. I think so. Yeah, twink is a bear. Yeah, twink death, countable and uncountable according to Wikipedia.
Starting point is 00:02:39 It means the loss of a twink's youthful appearance as a result of aging. Ah, yes, yes, yes. And we're not really speaking as true authorities here because I've only been told I'm a bear by very naughty man on the internet. And I've been told I'm an author by a gay man that I know. And if any of you want to maybe explain some of this stuff that we're talking about right now, to us because then we can talk back to everyone else about it,
Starting point is 00:03:02 email side stories We love to learn. So a twink death is basically when you go from Sparky to Spunky. We just have the you. Welcome to last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zabrowski and Ed Larson. Miami.
Starting point is 00:03:23 Tell me what you know about. We are going to Miami. It's actually really sad. It's sad trip to Miami. Which is their I have them are. Hey, really. Because most of the time it's by grandma. Have fun grandma.
Starting point is 00:03:40 Look at shuffleboard. Look, look, there's a tree. Those are trips to Boka. Yeah, that's true. I will say that I think the saddest show we've ever had was in Miami. Yeah. Why would you go? You're in Miami. Oh my God. Lauren, you're going to go down for comedy. You're going to go to a live podcast recording. Everyone's on their phones. I've done stand up down there. No one's paying attention. Everyone's fucking 40 minutes late. It's too sexy. There's like literally a nightclub DJ Lazz was playing and like every time the doors open, you just
Starting point is 00:04:09 heard a better party. And it was just like, you're laughing more, loving life being like, fuck that fuck guy. You were at the outside. Remember we were on stage and I was sick and like we're in Miami and I'm like drinking day quill straight from the bottle to make it through the fucking show. Yeah. Sad, sad place for me at least for you. But honestly, I felt the heat. As soon as you walked out that hotel room, you feel like your hips kind of swivel.
Starting point is 00:04:33 It's like, I felt the Polish creek. You know, as my knees started swiveling back and forth. Well, let's get to Andrew Kunan part three. Let's wrap this fucker up. Yeah. Let's see what Mr. Kunani does now. I've been trying to think of where Kunani comes. Is that a shaggy thing? It feels like something shaggy would say.
Starting point is 00:04:53 I just think I think Kenry made it up and like half stole it from something else. That's my whole career. I think it's Kunani. Well, yeah, someone said maybe it's because of the Steven Stegall song where he go he sings all about the you know Love on the Poonani in the song because he thinks he's half like Jamaican. Yeah, but I Marked for death from that movie. He's half Jamaican, but I will say because again, he's a good actor
Starting point is 00:05:14 But it's I just put it as Koonani because it's fun for me. Okay, so when we last left Andrew Koonan And he just murdered a civil war cemetery caretaker named William Reese Simply so he could steal Reese's truck for the next leg of his journey. This was Koonanan's fourth victim, and soon after he was officially linked to Reese, Koonanan became a national true crime sensation. God, he was excited about it. He was so fucking, he kept all his newspaper clippings, he'd watched all the news reports.
Starting point is 00:05:44 Now, as we said last episode, two of K Conan and his friends had called the FBI to tell them that he was likely headed for Miami and that he had a grudge against Gianni Versace. And as it was, Conan arrived in Miami not too long after the murder of William race. Ah, South Beach. I got some select quotes from the vulgar favors book that is disgusting. But here we go with forbidden seeding of that no waiting open up nearby South Beach is a riot of loose looks and easy sleeves. We're dancing the night away amid hundreds of tan undulating bodies is a standard pray to hot
Starting point is 00:06:27 anonymous of 10, undulating bodies. It's a standard pray-lead to hot, anonymous sex. I mean, it's always been that. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it seems like the first Native Americans found it. They were like, man, this place makes us horny as fuck. I think Miami was actually founded by an alligator and a thong. Yeah, I mean, like, trying to suck dick. And here's another quote, South Beach is about being Venezuelan 21 and having designer
Starting point is 00:06:49 pubic air. Whoa, 21 is generous. The- Hey there, hey, Secul if I get in here, yeah, the name's Winston McGonagall, yeah. Yeah, is it weird? I know my puberty, just in a diamond shape. It was hard to get the LV in there. Well, using another one of his fake IDs,
Starting point is 00:07:14 Kunanan set himself up on Miami Beach in a room at the Normandy Plaza Hotel under the alias of Andrew De Silva. And Normandy Plaza Hotel sounds fancy. It's $35.75 a night. Yeah, no, in South Beach, that's not good. No, no, no, no, no, but it was only a block from the beach. This was easily affordable, at least at first, because if you'll remember,
Starting point is 00:07:36 Koonan and had left Lee Migland's home with $10,000 in cash after that third murder. Which he quickly blew. Yes. Now, as far as Andrew Koonan and his movements around Miami went for the next five weeks or so. dollars in cash after that third murder, which he quickly blew. Yes. Now, as far as Andrew Koonanin's movements around Miami went for the next five weeks or so actually, that's what I actually didn't realize is how long that he was in Miami. He was there for a while.
Starting point is 00:07:55 Yeah. Yeah. Five or six weeks, somewhere around there. I think it ended up being almost a month by the end of it. I think it was seven weeks that he was in just fucking around you could see how he thought he was getting away with it Yeah, after all that time and Minneapolis yet he had his tan back I mean of course, but he couldn't go outside. He's on America's most wanted. Yes But that's the thing is that America's most wanted wasn't that like it was a big show
Starting point is 00:08:20 But it would it took a fucking as I'm about to get into it But it took a month for him to be recognized the first time. The problem is that they, what they said is that I know that he didn't have a tan because multiple times he tried to go places, the word that people use to describe him was pasty. Yeah. And America's most one, it was a big show in Florida. Oh, yeah. Because of wall, wall, wall, she's a Florida guy.
Starting point is 00:08:40 That's right. And a lot, I would imagine a lot of the people held from Florida. Yeah. We're end up there. Exactly. It's right. And a lot, I would imagine a lot of the people held from Florida. Yeah. Exactly. We're end up there. Yeah, exactly. It's great. It's called pulling a bunty for a reason.
Starting point is 00:08:51 Those far as Andrew Conanan's movements around Miami went for the next five weeks or so. They had to be put together by people who came out of the woodwork after Gianni Versace's assassination became the biggest news story in America. But when Andrew first arrived in Miami, the average person might not have known anything about the case if they didn't read Time magazine, or as we said, if they didn't watch America's most wanted. Therefore, plenty of local men had
Starting point is 00:09:16 stories of Andrew dancing in gay clubs, swigging vodka crans, and trying to pick up dudes. He definitely, the word was is that he had a hustler vibe. Yeah. I feel like this is one of those things. I was like, you know, we can't really speak towards the hustling gay community. We have no fucking clue. But you can speak towards the hustler community at a whole, you know, especially in South Florida, they're everywhere.
Starting point is 00:09:40 Well, that's what they, everybody says like he stood out like a sore thumb as a guy that pulls fucking tricks for a living Yeah, and I think he was a little bit more obvious and like we could get away with that in California But for some reason in Miami just nobody was having any of it Well, he's he's lost his edge and he's also ponchy. Yeah at this point But he paid weekly at the Normandy Plaza Hotel and cleaned his own room So the maids had little reason to enter. I think one of them said she cleaned the room three times in the entire time that Andrew stayed there. And further proof that Kunanan was cognizant of the fact that he was still on the run,
Starting point is 00:10:15 he ate at cheap restaurants and shopped at a nearby Walgreens, but he still made time for runs to the adult bookstore. According to an employee at one store called the pleasure Emporium. Andrew was always well dressed, well spoken and very nice. Yes, but they said any attempted further conversation he shut down. How often are we engaging with the clientele at the sex shop? You either talk too much or not at all. Yeah, I think loose lips and ships, friend. I feel like if you talk a lot at the sex shop, then there's something, you know, just something wrong with you. I think eventually you do become an employee. Yeah. Well, as I've said before, like I had a very short run at the pleasure chest in New York City. And in that, but you're actually encouraged
Starting point is 00:10:58 to talk to the people because it's very high. It's very classy. It's very high class. That makes total sense. But they said his favorite magazines were jocks and inches. Which also could be a football magazine. Yeah. I've seen any of them tonight. Yeah, fourth and inches, baby. But just because most people didn't recognize Andrew, that didn't mean that nobody recognized him.
Starting point is 00:11:20 On June 11th, after Andrew had been a Miami for almost a month and employee at a sandwich shop called Miami Sobs Miami sobs Miami sobs Miami sobs is amazing. They always had a street fighter too. I would get the old cheese steaks for great Yeah, the cheese fries it was wonderful. Did they have fruit punch? They like a proprietary drink They definitely had their own fruit punch Yeah, and then like slowly but short Nathan's bottom. Yeah. And then they started to turn into Miami grill and serve salads and shit like a bunch of fucking pussy.
Starting point is 00:11:51 What is this shit? I'm here for a fucking to get sick. Yeah, I remember it was a great place for my mom to bring me to forget my dad wasn't around. It didn't work. How was the tuna sub? Do you have the tuna sub? Of course I had the tuna sub.
Starting point is 00:12:04 Yeah, my mom got the tuna sub a lot. Yeah, it's called the kunani now. That is what Andrew Koonan and got. Yeah. Oh, you got here's a tip for your tuna sub fans. A little mustard. Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Like one strip of mustard. I also like crunching up barbecue chips on top of a tuna sub. You're fucking genius. I'm at that for a reason. Well, this guy at Miami subs, he recognized Koonan and he called 911 before taking his time making Andrews, tuna sub. Straight up to the meat slurry on there. Cause he's I got to know, so be in your favor. It is a thing.
Starting point is 00:12:40 Yeah, it's a choice. It is very much a choice. But the cops still weren't fast enough because that by the time they arrived, Andrew was already gone. Unbeknownst to them, Andrews hide out at the Normandy Plaza Hotel was less than three blocks away. Taflon, baby. But it could be that Andrew noticed all the police activity in the vicinity of the hotel because he soon began spending more time in his brunette woman persona. In fact, Kunanim was so natural in his portrayal that the staff at the normity thought that he'd simply stopped leaving his room.
Starting point is 00:13:13 See, that's funny, because again, that's another difference between the one book and the other book, because this book really puts more on this sort of like full shape shifting thing that Kunanim would do, where like the other book is way more just like he probably was like, it was the constant, it was in Space Ball 2, the search for more money. It was the same thing where it's just like, where was his money coming from? We did not know. Like he blew through a lot of money very, very quick.
Starting point is 00:13:41 I imagine he was having sex for money. They thought they think that, but also at the same time, you're in South Beach. There's a lot of people at this time period that are at a much higher level that are doing this on a regular. Like the standard is much higher than the rest of the country. That's right.
Starting point is 00:13:57 And it's kind of fat now. Yeah, everybody's beautiful in South Beach. They're all just saying it's the hottest of every group is there. Do you just say? But it's 10, but so $10,000 in 1997 goes a lot longer than $10,000 in 2023. Remember, that was almost 30 years ago. Yeah, but it's still a nightclub in South Beach every night. You know, that's like $400 a night probably the way this guy lives.
Starting point is 00:14:20 I did all the rock, man. Yeah, he was spending about $100 on crack. It's a lot of crack. I did all the rock, man. Yeah, he was spending about $100 on crack. It's a lot of crack. Pretty read on the regular. And that was known, you know, but a guy named Ronnie, who also, because this place was like a half flop house
Starting point is 00:14:33 on the full flop house. They said that he would purchase rocks, you know, I'm probably like 20 bucks, 60 bucks, 100 bucks. There's a lot of different sizes of crack rock that you can buy apparently. Oh yeah, at the same time though, Andrew. Oh now they figure out with like little measuring cups, right?
Starting point is 00:14:49 They must. It might be Lucy. You see, it depends on the guy I imagine. Yeah. He's his style. I accidentally bought crack and Florida once. Oh, I think was I not with you? No, no, it was before we knew each other.
Starting point is 00:14:59 Yeah, but it wasn't telehassy. I went out and I was trying to get a dime bag and I gave the guy. He's like, how much you want? I was like, 10 bucks. And then he handed it to me and it was crack and I was like, I went out and I was trying to get a dime bag and I gave the guy, he's like, how much do you want? I was like 10 bucks. And then he handed it to me and it was crack and I was like, oh, fuck out. I'm out of my last $10 and now I only got crack. And at the same time, Andrew may have also fooled himself at one point into thinking that maybe he could start over in Miami because it's rumored that he tried getting, quote,
Starting point is 00:15:22 unquote, modeling work, which almost certainly means porn. Sure. As far as the authorities went, they later claimed that they distributed thousands of leaflets with information and photos of Kunan and throughout the Miami Beach area, once it was known with a fair amount of certainty that he was there. But according to the people that actually lived there, they never saw a single leaflet.
Starting point is 00:15:43 Yeah, they said they were like, no, we got him. We got it right here. There's a whole pile of them. You should see the Xerox machine. It's smoking. And then like, there was not a single leaflet when people arrived there. But my theory is that not a single fucking person believed
Starting point is 00:15:58 that he knew who Versace was. Like, yeah, you never met Versace. Well, it wasn't even at this point. Like it wasn't a thing of like he's here for Versace or anything like that. They're just like, we know, you never met Versace. Well, it wasn't even at this point. Like, it wasn't a thing of like, he's here for Versace or anything like that. They're just like, we know this murderer is here, but that's the thing is that they lied. Yeah, they lied. Like, they totally lied. They only, they came out after the murder of Versace.
Starting point is 00:16:15 And they just hope that nobody will call them out. Yeah. That nobody would remember that there was no fucking flyers left behind. But I do think it was cause it was not common knowledge that Johnny Versace would just walk around. And that he lived fairly openly in this community that they all viewed as a very like protected place for themselves.
Starting point is 00:16:34 But I don't know where his place was. Yes, but at the same time, it was, it was, this is one of those where like, whenever I go to a small town, like when I go to see like Natalie's family and upstate Michigan stuff, I you know, it's disgusting, but I look around and be like this place is like a sitting duck for a maniac I'm going to go here rip through this fucking they could kill the mayor
Starting point is 00:16:59 You can go find the mayor and shoot the mayor and that where like something like this has, it actually was fairly like while it was still Miami, it was this kind of like beautiful enclave. It was a very tight knit community that we're looking out for each other and kind of knew everybody who was around. There's that hotel that's right behind Versace House that like literally would look into his backyard. They everyone fucking you knew it's a W now, I think. Yeah, yeah, but like you, but back in the day, it was like a shitty little hotel and like, you, it just looks into his back yard and they use a little promo, but it was a lot of like,
Starting point is 00:17:30 you know, but they're all for you. Obviously, there was a lot of transient activity, but people coming in and out tourism and stuff. But like, for the most part, you knew who belonged there. Yeah. And it's the things that the cops, they did very little proactive work when it came to catching Andrew Koonan and before he killed again. They just lied afterwards because they got suddenly hit with a fucking red ball.
Starting point is 00:17:49 Yeah. And not to mention, people are getting murdered by the second Miami in the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. She off that side. No. When Andrew Koonan and went down to Miami Beach, it's pretty certain from the evidence he left behind that he was planning to kill not just one, but possibly a whole host of celebrities in addition to socialites and well-known
Starting point is 00:18:10 community figures, just like, you know, he killed Lee Migglin because he was a famous architect in Chicago. Yeah. See, Andrew Koonanin had written a list of targets and left it behind in William Reese's truck. And while Gianni Versace was at the top of the list, right behind him was Madonna and Julio Iglesias. No, not Julio! Yeah, Julio! Also both very Miami people. Yes, so Donna owned an apartment building, a giant skyrise with De Niro.
Starting point is 00:18:39 Oh wow. Yeah, in South Beach. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is that everyone knew, like these people had second, third, or fucking fourth homes in Miami Beach. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is that everyone knew, like these people had second, third or fucking fourth homes in Miami Beach. Yeah. I think that's part of the reason why Andrew Cunon and went there.
Starting point is 00:18:52 Sure. Because he knew that like, okay, he had spent his time in Hollywood, he spent his time in Los Angeles, and it's very like, I mean, you guys know from living here, like seeing a celebrity is very catch as catch can. Oh yeah, and they are, this is where they are the most protected. I mean, this is the heart of the celebrity machine. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:09 So there are a lot of times if you see a celebrity out who's a high level celebrity, they're coming out with, you know, they'll have a security guy in plain clothes. They have, they're normally walking around surrounded by people. Like this is their stronghold where you go to a place like South Beach, like that's where Gianni Versace in particular when to relax. Yeah. When they're because I'm not as watched here. Yeah. And that's it. Like I've been living in LA for like a year now. And maybe it's just because I never leave the valley. But the only thing close to a celebrity I saw was like Stephen Root. No, it was a good one. I had a really good one. I saw Louis Guzman at Vivians. That
Starting point is 00:19:43 was cool. He was waiting both of us were waiting I was just like I get in the old tip of the hat. I'm like I don't want to I look up his fat little fucking love you fucking shit Well in addition to Madonna and Julio Iglesias, he also had on his list an oil heir named Gordon Getty, a socialite named Harry DeWitt and a fair number of prominent doctors and lawyers in the Miami area, but perhaps telling Lee and fucking dramatically. What a fucking dream again.
Starting point is 00:20:20 Yeah. Fucking theater child. Yes. Who not it had also written his own name and blood inside William Reese's truck. Six simple tyrannis. Fun to do. Mr. Koonani rides again.
Starting point is 00:20:33 He is a fucking piece of shit. I also think of, he lived everything because he knew. Now he knows that Big X was like, they're gonna write books about me. They're gonna come looking for me. They're gonna find out. They're gonna search for any bit of information about me because his own hotel room was staged with books of like the high elite. He wanted you to know that the things he knew only the most Tastable people would know like his taste level was extremely high
Starting point is 00:21:03 And so he put those things on and be like see she all the things are, you know, like, because it's not just like, you know, Pats A jack mad magazine. Yeah. Man, although I would have liked him a lot better if he did have a stack of mad magazines in his hotel room. No, I think that honestly, he might not have turned out the way he did. It's an outlet. But as far as Conan and his first target went, he would sit for hours at a restaurant called
Starting point is 00:21:26 the 11th Street Diner, which just happened to be right across the street from the mansion that belonged to Gianni Versace. Staking it out? Yes. Now, it gave you a bit of history on the fascinating figure that was Gianni Versace. He is fascinating. Yes, he was a man who came from nothing and his childhood experiences were later reflected in his designs. He said that during his childhood in Italy,
Starting point is 00:21:49 his mother would take him to communion near a brothel that was run by the mafia. You have never seen so many a nipple indexed across. The brothel was called the church. For such you remembered that he would see these women day after day hanging out of the window or sitting on the steps. But even though his mother told him to avert his eyes. I don't think he was looking for the reasons she thought he was looking. No, not at all. He still looked. And the sex workers up front for
Starting point is 00:22:23 bitten flashy styles shaped his concept of female beauty. There are some people that will pop this bubble, right? Because his where he was from was the very tip of the boot of Italy. And someone said like, yeah, sure. I mean, like, that's a really sexy, fashionable story. Oh, yeah. But if you were to gaze upon the sex worker community of this small Italian town, you might not notice a heck of a lot of differences between the nonas and the sucking on us. Like, you might not, there was still, aprons were still plentiful. A bushel was a democratic item. Everyone had one. So it wasn't like, they weren't hanging out in like, it wasn't a democratic item. Everyone had one. So it wasn't like they weren't hanging out in like it wasn't a music video. Yeah. Yeah. Now later Versace we get a lot of shit for this because people
Starting point is 00:23:12 would criticize his clothing designs for being vulgar and demeaning to women. That just made them sell better. Yeah. It's the idea. It really did. But according to Versace, he loved a woman and he only wanted to celebrate their body. I say, the first thing I do, I see a vagina, first thing I play a trauma bone. And I put it in the birthday candle. Look at her. Look at the happy birthday to you, Volvo. And that works for Miami because everyone's fucking naked.
Starting point is 00:23:38 Oh, yeah. It's just a street. You're just like everyone's. I don't even know the strip clubs stay open. Yeah, you just go to Walmart And apparently many women and men agreed with Versace vision by the mid 90s Versace was Raking in tens of millions of dollars in profits from a sprawling fashion empire that also produced accessories Gene sportswear children's clothes and home furnishings And that's in addition to all the high fashion.
Starting point is 00:24:05 Do you know that he made a child's cologne? That's a credit. I saw that like, yeah, cologne for good. I mean, when I was a kid, I had a cologne collection. Didn't you? Oh, yeah, we had ju- I ju- I ju- and Tommy Hilton, our chocar. Oh, yeah, I love all that. I had this stuff called Animal that I bought for $50 and it was wonderful. Oh, yeah, but do it again. Those were Cologne's for men that we put on our child bodies. He made marketed.
Starting point is 00:24:32 Shoot for this. Over Sachi dressed Tina Turner, George Michael, Prince, Sylvester Stallone, Mike Tyson, War Versace, Fade on away and Princess Diana. Oh, yeah, name just a few. That's good work. It's very good work. That was his whole thing. He revolutionized the idea of harnessing bulk guarantee as a attribute being like, no, we're celebrating this. Yeah. And in that, he became a PR like machine where he understood he would just throw millions of dollars with the free stuff at celebrities and all of a sudden they're hanging out there loving it and then they're hanging out with him. Well, what Andrew Krunan and figured out was that Gianni Versace was not just a celebrity,
Starting point is 00:25:14 but a celebrity amongst the celebrity community itself. Oh, yeah. As far as Gianni Versace's demeanor went, he was said to be an open, simple man who kept no secrets. And he was also the first internationally famous fashion designer to talk openly about being gay. One of the first famous people ever, in fact, to talk openly about being gay. But as it is with many successful Italians, and I'm not going to say that this is a fair assumption. It's not a fair assumption.
Starting point is 00:25:42 This is a, we are a subjective experience at last but it was always rumored that Versace's business has been backed by the Italian mafia from the beginning. And we're talking Italy, Italian mafia. Those are the people who killed Jesus from the Delta. What is the truth? This is that. I do think it's discounting him because he did like, yeah, it is. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:26:08 I because they did a lot of research again, whatever fucking this trash rag vulgar favors, you want to talk about it. They put a lot of work into trying to dig deep to find this type of dirt and they could not find it. They could not find the real mafia ties. He obviously, because in Italy, oh God, it's just the government's also like, because the quote, it's supposed to be transparent, you know, but then also you find out like half the government on the day. It's all, it's all, there's a lot
Starting point is 00:26:34 of, as an ordinary person there hasn't Italy had something like 43 different types of governments in World War two. And they don't give a fuck. They are. They just be relaxed. Man. Well, some would later refer to Versace storefronts as quote, the prettiest londa rats in the world, which was a statement somewhat supported by the fact that Versace's boutiques were mostly empty yet stayed in business nonetheless. Well, they went to because it was the during this time period, right, before his murder, they were trying to go public, right? So the company, so they took a lot more,
Starting point is 00:27:05 there was a lot more eyeballs in the center of what used to be very, like, family-based, private company. Very private. Well, that's the other thing too, is that this, you know, having those storefronts is like, it's not about selling the items in the storefront. It's about having the storefront on like fifth avenue. That's the idea. It's an advertisement.
Starting point is 00:27:22 And a pair of shorts is a grand. It's cost a lot of money. But the stuff that would sell, it was never the big, high end crazy items. Those are the, those are the, well, he used, he's basically said that was for publicity. Yeah. And the things that sold were the Cologne and the jeans and the T-shirts. Like the stuff that's like the lower end stuff, but that's what kept the lights on. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:27:42 Well, adding to the speculation that the mob might be involved was the fact that Versace's business history was extremely vague, as you said. And in May of 1997, Cento Versace, current president of the company, by the way, was charged along with three other Italian fashion houses for bribing Italian tax officials. Come to the tax officials, just been like, well I have a no idea what you're talking about. Like, fancy scarves on the like pirate hats, like, rings about I have never once. And then he's holding a glass of champagne and takes off in a boat. It's like on the street. Further muddying the waters was the fact that when Versace went to Italy, he did so surrounded by bodyguards and he traveled in a bulletproof car.
Starting point is 00:28:26 It was said that Versace did this because he was terrified of being kidnapped and or killed by a branch of the mafia from his Calabrian homeland called the Undrangera. Mostly unknown in America, the Undrangera were so pervasive and powerful in Italy that their profits account for 3.5% of Italy's GDP. How is that measured? Why are they allowed to be a part of the GDP? Because they actually, they were so evil that they just admitted their taxes.
Starting point is 00:28:56 Like, this is how much money we stole this year. Honestly, we just want to thank you for your honestness. And there's still one of Europe's largest drug traffickers, made up of a hundred families, each with their own territory. The Nrangeda has about 5,000 members in the Calabria region alone, which is where Gianni Versace is from. They were also no strangers to kidnapping high profile people for money. In 1973, the Nrangeda kidnapped a kidnapped a 17 year old grandson of an oil tycoon
Starting point is 00:29:27 named J. Paul Getty, who was once the richest man in the world. That story. Yeah, the Kevin Spacey got kicked out of. Yeah. Oh, that's that movie. Yeah. I didn't watch it. Now at first, Getty refused to even entertain the idea of paying the ransom. Fuck my grandson. That's an incredible. I love that. What are you gonna do with them? How much? Yeah. Yeah. You just make another grandson for me?
Starting point is 00:29:52 But after Getty received his grandson's ear in the mail, he finally negotiated with the Etn Dragon Gata for a ransom of $2.2 million. Now, they'd originally asked for $17 million, but Getty refused to budge past $2.2 million. Now they'd originally asked for $17 million, but Getty refused to budge past $2.2 because that was apparently the maximum tax deductible amount. That's a real business. Have you seen the Getty Museum on the 405? It's beautiful.
Starting point is 00:30:16 It's gigantic. He easily could have paid $3 million. Is that the same Getty? Yes, it's all the Getty images. It's all the same fucker. Oh wow. No, no, they're huge. Now, nine of the getty kidnappers were arrested and convicted, including a couple of high ranking members of the Indrangada.
Starting point is 00:30:33 But most of the ransom money was never recovered, and the authorities didn't even come close to convicting any of the bosses. In an incredible coincidence, though, one of J. Paul Getty's' children, Gordon Gettie, had actually been on Andrew Koonan and his list of people to possibly kill in Miami. Wow. I guess I think that came from his research.
Starting point is 00:30:54 He put a very curated list together for the police. I think he knew this shit. I think he probably looked it up and he tried to see probably heard them rumors about Versace being in the mob. That's very much like an Andrew Koonan and like him at a cocktail party conversation. Oh, yeah, of course, because that's what he used to do. If you got, if you look back in the first episode, that that was his thing is that he wasn't that's that one guy said being like, you're not smart. You just memorize trivia and then just say it about it at a bunch of places. And it kind of feels like
Starting point is 00:31:24 he did that and he could get everything's about there is no answer you couldn't down the inside. And he would have been easy to sneak up on because he only has one here. Can't you hear the grandson? Yeah. You can still hear without the ear after. And also there's heat. You can feel heat. But when you consider the history of the Nrangada mob, you can see where Versace's fear came from.
Starting point is 00:31:48 Oh, sure. It's possible that Versace either didn't want anything to do with them and took precautions when he went to Italy, or he was forced to work with them because he had the bad luck to hell from their main territory. Or it was just cool for him to drive around in a bulletproof limo and it made him look a very, very important. Could be. I think it's just good to drive around in a bulletproof limo and it made him look very, very important. Could be. I think it's just good to be safe in Italy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially then in the 90s, the crime was way up in the 90s and it is now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like murder numbers were
Starting point is 00:32:15 fucking through the roof. Oh, yeah. There to what they are now. Yeah. But there was an incident, unproven that hints that Versace might have been at least lightly involved with the mob. Versace supposedly told a friend named Frank Monti about an associate named Gugliere Molgato, who kept ledgers for the mob. You just cause it used the word associate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You name your child Gugliere.
Starting point is 00:32:42 You know, they're only gonna be good for one job. What can they do besides being a butcher? Gugliere. You know, they're only gonna be good for one job. What could they do besides being a butcher? Gugliere, Elmo. And it's just like born with a cropped, you know, like a, instead of an umbilical cord. Well, it was allegedly, thank Gugliere, Elmo, Gato's job to clean up the books and keep legitimate businesses,
Starting point is 00:32:59 legitimate, and the eyes of the authority. You see here, this is legitimate. And again, it's talking like this, this is legitimate. And again, he's talking like this. He's more, this is legitimate. What's something happened between Gugliel Mogato and Gianni Versace, something that caused Gato to steal ledgers that he could use to blackmail Versace for millions of dollars. But shortly after that blackmail attempt, Gugliel Mogato was hit by a bus in Milan.
Starting point is 00:33:24 Strangely though, his autopsy showed that unless the bus had hands, Gato had already been strangled to death before someone just threw the body into the street. I can't believe how articulate the headlights on that bus. Yeah, that bus certainly made short work of that strangled man. I just want to say one more time. Gugli El Moga. It's just very fun to say. It is a great name. Tell me, you're going to give me my blocks back when we are going to have to have a talk about a certain situation. Yes, This may be the mob, but it is also pre-k. When it came to Versace's way of life on Miami Beach, it couldn't have been more different from how he conducted himself in Italy. So he'd fallen in love with Miami
Starting point is 00:34:15 after designing outfits for Don Johnson during Don's run on Miami Vice. You look great. Oh, yeah, he looked fucking fantastic. And soon, You look great. Oh, yeah, you look fucking fantastic. And soon Gianni Versace bought a mansion on Ocean Drive, the same mansion where he would one day be murdered. It's so it's wild because when he found, I thought it was interesting, the rise of South Beach because it was like Claudia Schiffer lived there and he's just like, hang out. And that was like the first thing that brought everybody there was it. It was like Claudia loves it. But where most celebrities who had mansions on my Emmy beach like Madonna hid their mansions away for Sachi had a single gate protecting his home. He was very out in the open and very gotty. And Versace's address was so well known that it became somewhat of a
Starting point is 00:35:00 tourist attraction. Well, he, he, well, you know, there's a little bit of controversy because he tore down a historical landmark to build his mansion and then tore the historical landmark that was next door to build his pool and studio. But at the same time, he was like, a visace. I don't know, like, yep, it's like, Versace just really helped grease a lot of wheels, the name itself. Yeah, and he had a lot of money.
Starting point is 00:35:22 Yes. I think is, and he brought a lot of money and attention to the neighborhood. Yeah. I think it is a mansion cost like $4 million to build and $4 million, you know, 90s money. Yeah. Additionally, there were a lot of gay bars and clubs around Versace Mansion. And he could be seen hanging out at the clubs before picking up a pizza pie on the way home. All of this, of course, was well known information to Andrew Koonan.
Starting point is 00:35:44 Now, after Koonan had been on the FBI's 10 most wanted list for a month, he sold one of the gold coins he'd stolen from Lee Miglin at a Miami Beach pawn shop called Cash on the Beach, got $200. This is a bit of a reckless move for Andrew Koonanin, because he used his real ID, used his real passport, and even gave the manager his thumbprint. And all that information was then mailed to the Miami Police Department, which was standard procedure for Florida pawn shops, as required by law. I got two takes on that, which is either number one, just straight up wheels are falling
Starting point is 00:36:16 off. Right. Doesn't care. Needs it to get done. He's desperate for money. And so he's like, whatever, I can't because he knows that they'll look too hard until there's other fake shit or the ideas he's, he's stolen. And then there's number two of the, hey, hello. Yeah. Hey, make me do something. That's what I feel like. I feel like he just got
Starting point is 00:36:33 bored in the department. Yeah. He's just running out of money. He knows his time is running out. He is not ready to do his final deed that I think he'd plan this whole time. And then I think that now he's going to be like, please make me go do my last stuff now. But while we might think of this as the first step towards Andrews capture, or at least an increase in pressure, the paperwork that said that Andrew Koonanins in town and his sell and shoot at pawn shops, that was tossed on a clerk's desk. And it wasn't seen until after Koonanins free was over. And that's the funny thing, is it like the police tried keeping it under wraps. But afterwards the FBI was like, no, these stupid motherfuckers, they had proof that he was
Starting point is 00:37:11 here like weeks before the murder. They basically said South Beach police were like 10 years behind the rest of the country in terms of they, they, nothing was technologically advanced inside their offices. Everything was still old school because because again, they had murders, but in the South Beach area, it was different. It was again, had kind of weird, kind of a small town vibe, even though it was not. Yeah, and that's what I remember,
Starting point is 00:37:34 I realized I said mailed. Like this is 1997, Fax machines. You could fact it. You could fact something, and they're still going by everything's paper, everything's getting mailed. But the zero hour for Andrew Koonan in's last murder was fast approaching. See Andrew was running out of money and he could test his luck selling coins at pawn shops only so much.
Starting point is 00:37:55 In other words, he knew that the game was almost over. So he shaved the sides of his head into what Maureen Orroth called a modest mohawk to evade authorities a bit longer. Again, a sudden shift in hairstyles means your friend might be getting dangerous. It's very taxi drive. Oh, it is. He could have watched taxi driver. And he might know what I'm going to go fucking do a mohawk and I'm going to kill this
Starting point is 00:38:17 guy. Yeah. It was also around this time that people in the Miami gay community began recognizing Andrew, but they didn't recognize him as Andrew Koonanan. They recognized him as a guy hanging out in the gay clubs looking for Gianni Versace. See, Versace was recovering from a surgery, so he wasn't out and about as much as he usually was. Koonanan, therefore, had become what known as the guy who kept asking, Where's Versace? You want to meet Versace?
Starting point is 00:38:44 Where's Versace? You're going to come around. I want to see his hats. I want to see what his jeans are like in person. Versace, you like Versace? Yeah, Versace. But at some point, Kunan and presumably decided that he was just going to stake out Versace's mansion until the famous designer decided to come out, whether it be day or night. As it happened, they'd meet for the last and possibly first time on the morning of July 15th, 1997. That morning, Versace walked through the gates of his mansion to a nearby news cafe and bought $15 worth of magazines. Coincidentally, one of those magazines was an issue of people that featured a profile on Kounan. They also found a vanity fair magazine in Andrew Kinnan's apartment that had an article
Starting point is 00:39:27 on the Versace's. So they wonder whether or not, like literally these are two steam trends heading towards each other. Yeah. I miss the days when you go buy a bunch of magazines. You can still do it. You can still do it. But no one has them anymore.
Starting point is 00:39:39 No, there's a magazine stand over on Laurel Canyon. Yeah, you can go to like a book, some millions still around. I know that Barnes and Obasola's magazine stuff. Do you think we need to set ourselves in the decade we want to live in? Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's time for us to make the choice. You want to buy magazines? You want to get a brick phone?
Starting point is 00:39:55 Let's do it. I have been thinking about going out and picking up a couple of porn omags. Yeah, just for a time. I say, I'm surprised to honestly, I was surprised, but yeah. Sure. Someone's got to buy them. Yeah, no one, honestly, no, because there's so much on the internet. There's so many. There's so much pornography. I did get a little bit inspired when I went to that place in Pittsburgh where they had
Starting point is 00:40:16 all those vintage pinhouses for sale and I bought a few of those because I was looking for that Patty Smith interview. But I thought, yeah, let's get a couple more in here because one of them had a John Hinkley interview in it. And again, now you're fucking, you're really, you're wasting our time. You're literally buying the articles, you're buying it for the article.
Starting point is 00:40:33 No, I bought it for the, I came for the articles, but I stayed. Came again. For the cops. I've been thinking about having a, you know, a vintage pin house collection for a while now. So just be careful because you never know what's in some of these magazines before a certain age. Stay tuned. I'll keep you updated.
Starting point is 00:40:51 But according to the cafe host Versace might have known something was But I got mad at us two weeks ago for talking about Kathy Ireland. You know, this is your jerk off. man in the last two weeks ago for talking about Kathy Ireland. You know, this is your jerk off. But according to the cafe host, Versace might have known something was going on. The host said that that morning Versace was agitated and kept walking around the area and a sort of loop like he knew someone was following him. But by 9 a.m. Versace was back at the mansion gates about to walk through. It's at that moment that Versace was approached by Andrew Kuhnannon, who was carrying a backpack and was dressed in a nondescript muscle T black shorts and a black baseball cap.
Starting point is 00:41:35 It's like he put on his assassin outfit. Witnesses said they exchanged words. Them began to curse at each other in Italian. See, again, that's, that is debated. The cursing them cursing each other in Italian. See, again, that's, that is debated. The cursing them cursing each other in Italian. It's a baited because I do believe that I, I actually believe that there were no words exchange them. Yeah, I think that I think that they, they, they, they're one breakdown of the crime.
Starting point is 00:41:58 I saw, I believe, was that he was just struggling to open his gate and because that's, it was just a bullet to the back of his head, execution style. And then he did the he hit him again. Yeah. So I believe yeah, that they had the exchange no words. This is people blowing out. Yeah. The circumstances. Sure. But according to the blown out version of the story, Kunan and reached into his backpack pulled out Jeff Trell's pistol and shot Gianni Versace in the head. Versace crumbled to the ground, where Kunan and Chautam again. The crowd around them of course erupted into chaos, but Versace's long time lover, Antonio Domeco, ran out of the mansion upon hearing the shots and started running towards Kunan.
Starting point is 00:42:36 Kunan then pointed the gun at Domeco but Domeco ducked and retreated back to Versace's body. Apparently satisfied with just Versace's death, Kunan and took off running, and while a couple of people did give chase, they quickly gave up when Kunan and pointed the gun at them as well. Now, there's still a contingent of people who believed that the assassination
Starting point is 00:42:57 of Gianni Versace was actually a mob hit, and that Andrew Kunan and was a convenient scapegoat for the Miami police, because they desperately needed to close a red ball murder Also, I honestly think it's a lot of like no one wanted Versace to be associated with this fucking nobody Yeah, yeah, and not just that the mob will take him out. He's making too much money if he is involved with them He's a big money maker Yeah, they're not gonna kill him for that reason alone unless he decided to cut ties with him because they were about to go public.
Starting point is 00:43:26 Wee-ee! Yay! Yay! See, besides all the mob rumors, the first bullet that struck Gianni Versace did something interesting as it exited his body. It hit the gates, metal railing, and broke apart. And one of those bullet fragments hit a dove
Starting point is 00:43:44 and killed it instantly. Yeah, this is one of those bullet fragments hit a dove and killed it instantly. Yeah, this is what this is one of those like the twisted hands of fates. Yeah. Dubs, however, are easily confused with pigeons, adduves like a skinny pigeon. Yeah, sure. And many believe that a dead pigeon on the scene of Gianni Versace's murder was highly suggestive of a mob calling card, like the ham at Lee McLens play. That's believable. It's still just like you think that they use the tiny, tiny gun to whack the dove. No, you can kill a dove with a very large gun. I'm just saying that just you saw a little pinpoint assassin bullet through
Starting point is 00:44:16 a tie. Just like Johnny Versace and you think that it's like it's been taken up by another bird. Kill someone on their front doorstep. You're not sticking around to like put a dead bird there too. Oh no, you could also have the dead bird in your pocket and you just fucking, as you're running away, you just throw, pull it out and throw it. Maybe honestly, you thought it was gonna be fun.
Starting point is 00:44:33 Magician like reveal. And then you were just like, fuck, the bird's dead. I'm not, oh, I smothered it. Yeah, well. But while that mat mech for a compelling narrative, if you're in the mob stories, the forensics proved that the bullet came from the 40 caliber pistol that Andrew Koonan and he used to kill his four previous victims.
Starting point is 00:44:54 Incredibly though, soon after Versace's body was taken away, hundreds of mourners began laying flowers on the steps of his mansion. In that crowd was supposedly Andrew Koonannan and himself who wanted to see the aftermath of his big celebrity murder up close and personal. I wouldn't put a past him. I wouldn't put a past him, but I also question how we know this detail. Again, it's another one of those.
Starting point is 00:45:16 How it's what Kunani would have wanted. It's what he would have wanted. It's what he would have done. It's possible that like after Kunnan and was caught, some person was like, oh yeah, that guy, I was standing next to him at Versace's place. But they might be fucking lying.
Starting point is 00:45:29 You see in everything. There's a bunch of liars, don't they? Yeah, I mean, still, they have a flare for the traumatic. Also, like it was everywhere. When the, in South Florida, like on the cover of the Miami Herald the next day was the gate in his blood. Yeah. Like it was fucking intimidating and scary. And like everyone was like, fuck serial killer running around South Florida.
Starting point is 00:45:50 Everyone was terrified. Well, of course, if they feel like if he could kill, they could walk up and shoot Johnny Versace in the head. We're all like he can get to anybody. Yeah. Now, Kunanan was not seen as a suspect at all in the very beginning of the investigation. Because of the dove, some of the cops jumped on the mob angle, and of course the rumors as well.
Starting point is 00:46:12 But because Versace was openly gay, other cops went with their standard, probably a gay thing theory. And they started questioning Miami Beach's gay community. Within a few hours of the murder, however, people noticed a conspicuous red truck with a lot of parking tickets and new jersey plates while they were camsing the neighborhood. Inside, they found more fake Andrew Koonanan passports, Lee Migglin's wallet, more newspaper clippings about Koonanan's crimes, and the aforementioned list that included Gianni Versace. From that point forward, Andrew Conanan was the number one suspect.
Starting point is 00:46:46 You see, it's act three! Yes! I'm the ultimate villain. Now, unfortunately, Andrew Conanan got exactly what he wanted from the murder of Gianni Versace. Some of the most famous people in the world, like Elton John and Princess Diana, issued statements of grief.
Starting point is 00:47:02 Well, tabloids from far away is England printed homophobic headlines gay assassin shot Versace and Versace executed by gay slayer By this point. I don't know why you were so happy I Was cute. I want to go see gay slayer by the way It's Judas Priest. By this point, though, the FBI had very much caught on to the fact that Andrew Koonan and was a slippery frog to peg. So they issued a
Starting point is 00:47:47 that term. I I never pack to slippery Me Man up written like three live shows in the last week my turns of phrase just getting so bizarre Weird like I wrote slippery frog to peg and I was like what the fuck is that? But this is like I had so I had like two other shows derrites. I'm like, fucking, I'm going with slippery frog to pack. That's what you do, my guess. Oh man, that's just what's the... It's hard to pack a slippery frog, you know?
Starting point is 00:48:12 You gotta get your sandpaper close. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta get some napkins. So they issued a new warrant poster with three photos of Kunanan featuring three of his most used looks. One picture was Andrew Koonan in himself, or at least like the regular and everyday Andrew Koonan. That's the big, with the Tom Cruise smile. Classic Andrew Koonan, the fresh-faced preppy.
Starting point is 00:48:35 Another was a picture of him with closely cropped hair in a serious look. That was Lieutenant Commander Cummings. The last was what, you know, the woman from Volga Affairs called a darkly handsome model, which I'd assume was Andrew De Silva. Yeah, I did a couple other fake names too. Yeah. Regardless of his highly increased profile, though, Kuhnannan was spotted at a stake house in Boca Raton, a place with a fucking awful name of choices. Okay. Now choices. All right. I know choices you do are you ready for this it was a gay Stankhouse
Starting point is 00:49:08 That's incredible and it was called choices and everyone and I stayed open late and it would became a nightclub And I remember always wanting to go to choices and my dad's like no, we don't go to choices I think he went once and he was like there there's just a lot of men in there. I know the choices they make. But choices is a great name for like a gay club. Oh, it's a great name for a gay club, but for a restaurant, it's confusing. Yeah. But it was weird that it like it always blew my mind even as a kid that there was a gay
Starting point is 00:49:40 stay-cow. Yeah. I honestly, I think it's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. I could have turned it to a club. But Andrew split before the FBI was able to put together a raid. Meanwhile, the press had caught up to Modesto Koonan and in the Philippines, beginning a long streak of denial in the face of insurmountable evidence.
Starting point is 00:50:02 But Desto insisted that his son couldn't have killed anyone because he'd been an altar boy. He was a Catholic for Christ. Oh, yeah. Older boys are all fine. Yeah. No, there was no way he was gay. No, his son was not gay. Catholic. No way.
Starting point is 00:50:15 The just because Koonan was the top suspect, didn't mean that cops didn't turn the Versace mansion upside down, looking for clues that might point towards a jealous lover. They're not letting go of that angle. Just yet. Likewise, they question thousands of people mostly gay men in Miami Beach and all around South Florida. APBs were also issued across the country, but out of the 600 tips called in, none were helpful. But then it looked to the cops as if Andrew Koonanin had struck again and this began a long string of attempts on the part of the authorities to pin every murder in Florida involving a gay guy on Andrew Koonanin a few days after Versace and that just never fails. Yeah. Cops always do this.
Starting point is 00:50:58 They really do. It's almost like they're lazy and don't really care about catching the actual person and only care about getting the fucking turning the red name into black. Maybe. You may be. Yeah. Well, a few days after Versace was killed, a burglar alarm was tripped at a house out by the airport. And when police arrived, they found a Cuban exile named Dr. Silvio Alfonso with his pants
Starting point is 00:51:22 around his ankles, killed execution style. Now since the house was less than 10 minutes from Versace's mansion and a neighbor saw a guy who looked like Kunanan running from the house, authorities believe that Alfonso may have picked up Kunanan at a bar and Kunanan had been using the home as a hideout. But it was soon discovered that the murderer was a guy named Yosavani Fernandez.
Starting point is 00:51:44 This story is full of great name. Oh yeah, I named Yosavani Fernandez. This story is full of great names. Oh, yeah, I love Yosavani Fernandez. And he did actually look like Kunanan, but he'd killed Dr. Silvio Alfonso over a simple matter of money. And I'll say killing someone over money that goes across all genders, you know, what you love, what you like. Why don't you take his pants down? It's a humiliation.
Starting point is 00:52:05 Yeah. That's a mob hit. Yeah. Because you would honestly with the mob, but they want to embarrass you, the real things they cut off your chicken balls and put it in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. And that's pretty standard across all the, you know, criminal syndicates.
Starting point is 00:52:17 Yeah. They cut your slip and they pull your tongue out through the thing. You get the Columbia necktie. Hmm. Interesting. Free time. Slit your mouth into Joker like smile. That's also real too. Yeah. This is why they actually do need legitimate businesses. They really do. Some that keep them busy. But they're not just idle
Starting point is 00:52:34 hands with the devil's play thing. It's a lot of creative energy. They need to be spent somewhere. But from there, cops started going back through their files to look at the murders of other gay men and they found a case involving a guy named Casey Siggler who'd lived on Miami Beach. Siggler was found beaten to death in his home on May 12th after he was seen at a cruising spot in Flamingo Park, and authorities believed the Kunanan was the killer because that was the day he'd arrived in Miami. Authorities even as far away as the Philippines were trying to close cases using Kuhnana because they had their own murdered gay fashion designer, a guy named Carlos Batadoi. Oh, wow.
Starting point is 00:53:11 I don't know if that's the right pronunciation. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Tagalog is a difficult language. It is. Yeah. In other words, if a gay guy had been murdered in Manila or Miami and the case was still open, cops tried pinning it on Andrew Kuhn and to clear the case just like they'd done years
Starting point is 00:53:27 earlier with Henry Lee Lucas. Anytime there's a serial killer that they can just fucking go from red to black, they're gonna fucking do it. Meanwhile, the gay community at large were trying their best to help get Andrew Koonan and off the streets themselves. Oh, sure, because you're just you're fucking poisoning the bunch, ball, man. Yep. Photos of Koonan and were downloaded, printed and distributed to hundreds of gay bars
Starting point is 00:53:47 and clubs all across the country. But that was still a long shot because according to one criminologist, Andrew Koonan and he was basically Mr. America. He looked like everybody and nobody all at the same time. He could be damn it. He could be so many different races, so many different nationalities. He could just blend in anywhere and appointed jab this criminologist. It's almost like he knew what would piss off Andrew Koonanah.
Starting point is 00:54:10 Try to see, because also maybe you could make some pop his head up. Yeah. He said that Koonanah was able to stay undetected because he was extraordinarily ordinary. Yeah. He didn't really, yeah, he wasn't particularly handsome, especially at this point. He wasn't particularly anything. No. Now, considering how Andrew had a kill list that included a fair amount of celebrities,
Starting point is 00:54:28 cops also issued warnings to Calvin Klein, John Paul Gautier, Georgia Armani, Elton John, poor Lisa Kudrow. She's like, why am I in this fucking shit? I just did smelly cat. I don't need this shit. Interestingly, they also issued a warning to John Travolta who would not at any point been mentioned. I feel like it's a little spice of maybe some Hollywood homophobia there. Yeah. And he was in Miami at the time.
Starting point is 00:54:53 He might have, yeah, you know, yeah, in Miami because he was shooting that movie, the sequel to Get Shorty. Oh, he was shooting down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, get real. Get real. Yeah, that was the name of the movie. Wow. Or be cool. Be cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're shooting down there. Yeah, it would that is for me. No, no, I love Dennis for you. Wow, this is, wow. It's incredible how much knowledge you have of every single thing that was happening.
Starting point is 00:55:18 Am I am the time? Because this was the height of your life. Yeah. No, this is when I've like finally started to read the news a little bit and understand that there was more things other than Dan Marino and Miami. So you were like 14, 15 when all this is going on. I was 15, 16. Yeah, 15. Yeah. That was 15, 97.
Starting point is 00:55:36 Yeah. But from witness reports, Koonanam was not coming anywhere near a location where a celebrity might be seen. You may have actually run into him at one point, especially because he was in fucking Boca. Yeah, you know, the melting pot was right next to choices. We love going to the melting pot. I fucking love. No, someone saw him at a public's and Fort Lauderdale.
Starting point is 00:55:54 I could have been there. Oh, fuck a lot of my god. That's incredible. Give me a say when he probably gets up fried chicken. No, be cool. We shot in 2005. Oh, much later. Be cool.
Starting point is 00:56:04 It was much, much later. Unfortunately, I didn't mean to double. No, I appreciate you. But I was like looking at this because like get sure he was shot 94 90. You know, something like that. The thin welcome to Hollywood. There's primary colors came out of the. That was right. That was more.
Starting point is 00:56:18 But he was around Florida a lot. It might have been a long time before him. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to grind this. No, I like that. I like. Thank you. They also saw Koonan and at a date County. You might have been a long time before it came out. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to grind this. No, I like that. I like.
Starting point is 00:56:25 Thank you. They also saw Kunanan at a date county. Well, they said they saw Kunanan at a date county strip club called the Gator Kick. Hey, it's an astronaut kick. The legs. They could jump high. Yeah. Whoa, really?
Starting point is 00:56:38 Wow. I don't know anymore. Well, they use their tails. Oh, that makes sense. One report even said that Andrew Kunanan was seen hanging around an Oprah field in Arkansas. But I don't know. Oh, hey, you know this vegetable sucks.
Starting point is 00:56:55 It sucks right? It's mostly slime. You fry it. It's delicious. You fuck. That's what I know. Natalie likes it. You like the freedom.
Starting point is 00:57:04 But rightly so, the FBI guest that Andrew Cun and had stayed in Florida because he was enjoying the attention. Oh, yeah. And being in Florida and especially Miami meant that he could bask in the juiciest grief and the starkest fear. We get to really see. I think he's headed towards his final act on purpose. I think that this whole thing is him basking. This is his victory lap. He wrote his name and blood. Yeah. Andrew, however, was still making calls to friends to chat about his situation. One friend claimed that Andrew called him and said, quote, Hey, it's Andy. The FBI will never catch me. I'm just too damn clever. Which is why I keep using my real name. And I love making phone calls.
Starting point is 00:57:45 And for a while, it seemed like Kunanan might have been right about being too clever. I just think it's hard to find somebody that is a motive. What we always talk about this, it's why they search for the lover. It's why they say it's the husband or the wife or so because to find a motiveless murderer is extremely difficult. If you have no, no, no, where this person is, Miami's a huge fucking city. And he has now spent enough time to know where to go where no one is going to go look for him. He's specifically using the criminal element as a way to hide. Even after Versace's remembrance mass on July 22nd, which was attended by no less than
Starting point is 00:58:22 Princess Diana herself, police still didn't have a beat on Koonan, a week after the crime. They put his ashes in a 14 carat for such a box. He's like this giant box of gold. That was just like, I mean, it sounds awesome. I mean, it is pretty cool. But again, you're going to spend how much money on it? Earn? Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:58:40 I mean, it's him. He has it. Yeah, I guess. But in the end, it wasn't the police who found Andrew Koonan. Instead, it was a man named Fernando Carriera, who stumbled upon Andrew Koonan and completely by chance. On the afternoon of July 23rd, over a week after the murder of Versace, Carriera stopped by one of the vacant boat houses he guarded for the owner,
Starting point is 00:59:02 a guy called Torsten Reinit. Yeah, I live on boats. Definitely a guy who's not been on Salman land for a long time. He smells of smelting fish. He smells like an Elron hover character. Yeah, I am Torsten Reinick. I have never free and most powerful force in the world. But when Fernando Carrera poked his head into the houseboat, he came face to face with Andrew Cunanan.
Starting point is 00:59:29 Since Carrera was a security guard, he was armed. And he got the draw on Andrew. Cunanan fled into a room on the houseboat and locked the door while Carrera called the police. At this point, there was no way out for Andrew Cunanan and we'll never know why he did what he did next for sure. Perhaps he felt that prison wouldn't be worth the increased notoriety.
Starting point is 00:59:49 A trial would bring him. Perhaps he felt like he had nothing else to do or perhaps he just panicked. I think there's an element of a homicidal maniac doing a committing suicide. I think partially it is because you get to end your story your way. Yeah. And no one gets to find end your story your way. Yeah. And no one gets to find out all your little secrets. Yeah. And the only thing that exists are the myths about you, the things that you have set up for
Starting point is 01:00:11 other people to know, all of the various smoke and mirrors that you have fed to every single person that has ever known you, that you're, you know, you become a, uh, uh, in this way, he believes he's become a legend. Yeah. And he's going to go as far as he can. Or it was an accident, he was just sucking on the gun. I just just like, oh man, let me show him how good a fucking guy is. Maybe he'll tell you he'll release me.
Starting point is 01:00:34 Maybe I'll just... But either way, before the police even arrived, Kunanim pulled out Jeff Trails pistol, put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger. The FBI, meanwhile, had no idea that Kunan had taken himself out. So they called in over 100 agents and brought in their best negotiators to take Andrew alive. But by 730, after three and a half hours of just yelling at this boat with a megaphone, FBI agents decided that Kunin had either escaped or was
Starting point is 01:01:06 already dead by his own hand. Someone dresses a sailor and enter from the other side. Can you appear as if you're a man? Someone dresses a magical merman. Let's confuse him. Let's just after 8 p.m. they tear gas the houseboat and stormed it to find that the case was definitely the latter. As far as Fernando Carrero went, he expected the $65,000 reward that had been promised for information leading to the capture of Andrew Cunanan, but Miami Beach officials welched on the deal by saying that the information he provided was not specific enough to qualify for the full reward. I don't know how we can be more specific as he's in this houseboat.
Starting point is 01:01:50 Well, they technically didn't capture him because he killed himself. He killed himself. That is the fucking loophole. Yeah, dude. Oh, well, Fernando subsequently and unsuccessfully sued the city of Miami, but in the end, he was given $10,000 by the gay and lesbian anti-violence projects in New York City and the FBI kicked in another 10 grand as well. So I mean, 20 grand's better than none.
Starting point is 01:02:15 In the aftermath of the murders, though, almost the entire Kunanan family went whole hog on selling their stories and giving interviews to whoever wanted to talk to them. Just so long as those interviews paid, both of his parents did separate Larry King interviews. And Modesto was bold enough to flat out say that he hoped to earn half a million from book and movie deals. Well, he had a full extended universe.
Starting point is 01:02:37 Oh, he did. Yeah. A completely different story. He said that his son was not gay at all, but was in fact trapped in an evil conspiracy involving a high-powered syndicate of rich old gays who tricked Andrew into dealing drugs while Andrew was working a legitimate job at an advertising firm in San Francisco. It is a good story.
Starting point is 01:02:58 I want to see this. Like, meanwhile, it was revealed that most of Modesto's time in the Philippines was, he spent most of it. He was a treasure hunter. He tried full scam. He went full, full, Gryff mode. Yeah. He tried finding that $55 million worth of gold that had been lost during World War
Starting point is 01:03:16 Two. There's gold in the waters. I don't know, man. I feel like we've been looking for that for a long time. I think it was, wasn't it like the like subplot of cryptonomicon? Yeah, I might have been. I think it was. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:03:30 It was also discovered that Modesto belonged to a small time cult called the church universal and triumphant that was partly inspired by none other than Madame Helena Blavatsky herself. She did a lot of work. Oh, yeah. Is that many, many cult sprung out from theosophy. The church universal and triumphant believed that the goal of human life was to spiritually ascend whatever that may mean. I think it means I mean, go to heaven getting hard on cue. Yeah. But the plans of their ascended
Starting point is 01:03:58 masters were constantly being thwarted by a cabal made up of communists, left wing agitators, the government and aliens. I love a good cabal. I love a good cabal. That's a pretty good cabal. Oh, yeah, that's a fun group. That's a diverse group. I've never heard communists and aliens being put together. I think there should be more of that. Yeah. Why not? The Church of Universal and Triumphant were also a millennial apocalyptic cult, but the cult mostly fell apart in 1990 after their leader hauled everyone to underground bunkers in Montana 10 years too soon, because he said nuclear war was coming. Man, you had 10 more years of juice, dog.
Starting point is 01:04:36 No, but that's the thing right after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Oh, turns out, turns out, turns out his mind a bit deteriorating for a very long time. But because he was the leader, they listened to everything that he said. We always talk about with Colts, you're in the head of the leader. And then if the head of the leader has Alzheimer's, you now have spiritual Alzheimer's. Yeah. And that it was after like nothing happened. They're like, maybe we should take him to the doctor. We should take his license away. But you get the keys. But to give you an idea of Modesto's judgment, he joined the cult six or seven years after that.
Starting point is 01:05:11 Hey, he's like, there's always second chance. But as far as Andrew Koonan and went, it was discovered, as we said in the first episode, that he was not HIV positive. Despite Koonan's belief that he was, the whole idea was this spree started because he lost control after discovering that he had HIV, but he didn't. Interestingly, no drugs were found in his system, meaning that he'd been sober in at least the last few days of his life. You ran out of money. He ran out of money.
Starting point is 01:05:37 I didn't know where to go. Yeah. Like at that point, you are really then too famous to go anywhere. Yeah. And most drug dealers are, you know, they're also rats. Yeah. Yeah. And so if he shows up and he's trying to, you don't go get the money. Of course. Oh, they'll go call the, they're gonna end up calling the police on it. They're still like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I sell crack. Okay. But I don't kill people. You know,
Starting point is 01:05:58 like there's that shit too. Yeah. But how is the crack dealer gonna tell the cops like how he knows Andrew Koonanin? You didn't care. They don't care. If you're trying to catch this guy, they won't care about the crack, okay. But while Koonanin did get the infamy he sought through murdering a person who actually accomplished something with his life,
Starting point is 01:06:15 Koonanin is still a pathetic creep who had nothing to add to the world, save pain and annoyance. Again, learn a skill, learn to play the guitar. Do something. Do something with your life. If you have this idea, my add, I'm gonna be famous. I'm gonna be famous.
Starting point is 01:06:31 Just like work on it. Yeah, you gotta do work. Yeah, don't take, you're the destructive root. Don't take the destructive root. It's safe. It's also a shape. Yeah, it's a good least. And also being famous is not that it cracked up to me.
Starting point is 01:06:43 All right, it's not like get the money to box of that. Get the fucking money. Be a fucking you invent something. Yeah. Well, if any of you out there are in the San Diego air, well, actually not when this episode comes out, we will be on stage at Beach Blanket Bingo, but the big thing this week or actually it was last week, but we sort of, you know, didn't we kind of forgot a little bit. Look at this. Look at this. The first issue of Operation Sunshine is out in stores. Right now, you can go to your local comic
Starting point is 01:07:14 bookstore. It's the new comic book that Henry and I wrote together. It's good. This is so fucking cool to have this out there. My personal, my comic book store here in Los Angeles is Earth 2. And I know, for example, that Heather and the gang, they got some, they got extra copies of Operation Sunshine. If you're in the valley, if you're in the Los Angeles area and your local comic book store is sold out, because I know the one that Eddie goes to, that one was sold out. Yeah. They had, I got the last one. And it was sitting like presented on the counter next to register.
Starting point is 01:07:43 Yeah. So what? No, we weren't so hard on it. And I really hope you guys like this book. We're not going to different cover than these. There's a whole various covers. Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:07:52 Oh, no, there's tons of variants. And we got some incredible variants in the future. We got a fucking variant from a Glenn Fabry who did all the covers from preacher. We got a fucking cover from Evan Dorke. Yeah. It's pretty fucking cool. Which is a dead, you know, Mel Couchies and, you know, all, you know, and he's Evan Dorke, and I mean, he's fucking incredible.
Starting point is 01:08:07 I mean, that's a dream come true. But we always love you. Thank you guys so much for supporting us. Yes. Thank you so much. So, so, so, let's check out the book. And also, next week, I know we got some people, it's Halloween season.
Starting point is 01:08:19 And it is? And so next week, it's full on, straight before. We're about to get spooky as fuck really spooky This is like I'm very excited because we have not covered this subject We've been wanting to cover the subject for a long time and I think it's gonna fuck you up. Yeah, which I'm looking forward to I hope so I really do it's Halloween time. It's time. Yeah, cuz you're of the Halloween mind that you like Halloween to fuck you up. I want Halloween I like to be scared for Halloween. Yeah, yeah, yeah Not like a fun time like you're dressing up like Batman or something. No, I like scary Halloween
Starting point is 01:08:53 Yeah, I don't really dress up anymore, but I like staying home and scaring the shit out of myself. It's scary movies Yes, it's my favorite, but this is I'm really excited for the story because it's finally we're getting in it Yeah, good ghost story All right, well, thanks everyone. Thank you for listening. Hey, I'll say to Hey, I'll gain a good to yourselves folks. Hey, man, and again, get a hot go dolphins Oh, I'll miss Miami stop. You're not the dolphins are great. You're allowed. They're fucking wonderful. Go. Bye. Happy Yeah, it's a dolphin. Great. It's He's allowed this He's taking them all from goal to goal like the ones ever seen you cut the song
Starting point is 01:09:24 We're on the air on the ground. We're always in control He's allowed this. He's taking them off from Goldigull, like the ones ever seen. You can cut this off. We're in the air on the ground. We're always in control. And when you say Miami, you're talking super bulk. As you're the Miami Dolphins. Miami Dolphins. Miami Dolphins number one. Woohoo!
Starting point is 01:09:40 Miami Dolphins. I only know this from our tips. Miami Dolphins. Miami Dolphins number one. Bang, bang, Fits. My Amid All Fits number one. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to

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