Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 671: Gary Ridgway : Redux Part I - Wrong Way Gary

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

This week, the boys reopen the case of Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, tracing the childhood abuse, early warning signs, religious hypocrisy, and mounting rage that shaped one of America’s most prolific serial killers before his reign of terror across the Pacific Northwest. For Live Shows, Merch, and More Visit: www.LastPodcastOnTheLeft.comKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Last Podcast on the Left ad-free, plus get Friday episodes a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. Here we go. Trying to get into the Gary Ridgeway headspace. I put a plastic bag over my head for a while this morning to kill off some of those extra pesky brain cells. You know?

I was just trying to get... I'm going to get the guy. I'm just like, that's the way to get into Gary Ridgeway. I'm going to kill the bitch. You're going to kill the bitch. This is because that's one of his favorite saying. He does, oh, yes, catchphrase. Yes, yeah.

I didn't want to get too crazy and violent with it, so I just did a really bad job of painting a truck. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with method actor, Henry Zabrowski. I'm a go. Because he reminds me a little bit of the... What's his name?

From South Park. Oh, Timmy. Timmy. No, not Timmy. Jimmy. Jimmy. Jimmy. Yeah. I think, I think you. Yeah. He's got those little eyes, too. He's got those little blinky little red eyes. The beattiest eyes and serial killing. He has that, he has the Arthur Shawcross tell. Yeah. Where when they're saying, when they're talking about things that particularly make them horny, they get real blinky. Yeah. That's indeed. Yeah. And we have the man who doesn't get blinky at all when he gets horny. As far as I know, it's Ed Larson.

Yeah. No, I don't think. I think. I just shut him and go to sleep. See, my eyes are wide open. It's one long blink. Now I want to see. Today we have a redo. We have a second pass. It's yet another look at a serial killer that we covered long ago.

Today we start our journey on Gary Ridgeway. I've brought this up before. And I once did one of those horrible tests, like, which serial killer are you? And I got Green River Killer. Yeah, you know what? I can see it. Okay, yeah. Say it. Your blue collar.

Yeah, what I like me to do is go, I got to kill the bitch. She's a bitch. I got to kill his bitches. I like the woods. He does love the woods. He does. He does. He does.

Amongst many other things, he does love the woods. I was just in Renton, which is next to C-Tac. Oh, yeah. I was just there, and we had a nice place right on the, right on the Lake Washington there. and I walked through the woods and it's nice. It is. I didn't see why it would get you horny. It's real quiet and private too, right?

Oh, absolutely. I was smoking all kinds of weed. No one's in nothing. It's great. But the reason why we're doing this Redux is because, you know, when we did this series back in the day, we had kind of like it was, we're still in the research figuring out what we're doing the show.

Very, I mean, this is back when it's, like, at that point, I was still on like six podcasts, week and also editing all of them and producing all of them. So, like, I was basically, like, looking at Wikipedia pages and, like, checking out, like, a couple of, like, murderpedia pages and trying to put shit together, not sleeping much and working, like, 90 hours a week. It was insane. So it was, let's say, a bad job.

But it was fun to do. But at the same time, we did not, because normally, it's, like, the opposite. Normally, when we do the old episodes, we got into the really graphic shit and we didn't get to all the other like context and stuff where this time it's so wonderful to know that when we got back into it the information's actually way more fucked up than we even ever thought in the beginning and that's great for us yeah now he from my i watched the documentary on hboh max yesterday and i obviously i read the script of prep today he seems like he might be the worst He just couldn't pull a

vast enough He's up there He's definitely As far as body count goes He's one of the most prolific in American history Samuel Little beat him though By a lot But he is definitely in that area

Of like amongst the worst And you know how I described him He does it Kirby Puckett style He's simple Yeah Right you know what I mean He's the bunter

That's what this is all about. It's on base. This is about moving guys around bases. Moving sex workers to various shallow grades. He's an RBI guy, not a home run guy. Exactly. He's a clutch player. So as we said, many years ago, we attempted an episode on Gary Ridgeway.

And while we did the best we could with the resources we had at the time, we realized after looking at this story again, we didn't really capture the full picture, especially considering how new information has come to. light that might actually explain the mystery of Gary Ridgeway. See, last time we described Gary Ridgeway as a man who was really only good at one thing. He was a dullard, but he also managed to evade police for decades as one of the most prolific serial killers in American history, despite the efforts of a massive task force. In fact, before the advent of DNA testing, the so-called Green River killer case, as Gary Ridgeway's murders are known, was shaping up to be

yet another unsolved serial killer mystery, like the Zodiac or Jack the Ripper. But the biggest difference between those cases in Green River is the sheer volume of victims. While Jack and the Zodiac only got five each, Gary Ridgeway murdered at least 45 women between 1982 and 1984 alone. Two fucking years. And that doesn't even count the women he murdered afterward and the women he possibly murdered before. And we've talked about this before with types of serial killers. There's always the ones in which they killed way less than they said that they did and they're doing it for attention

and then there's the ones that might have killed way more and Gary Ridgeway is firmly in the camp of might have killed way more. Yeah. Because he even he said that I don't remember a heck of a lot I kind of going in a different

direction of my mind and then he's just like starts thinking about it in a way where he like he goes off into a fantasy world and he doesn't even remember And then he said, I don't know whether that was a dream, or that was a fantasy. And he's just like, he was thinking about killing for so long. And he also doesn't remember what was the ones he actually did and what were just a walking fugue state fantasy he was in. You know what's interesting is like sometimes like I bit when I was younger.

It's catching. It's really catching. When I was younger, I remember I used to get in a lot of fights. And I remember one fight, my biggest fight, I don't remember. it. Like, I went into, like, a fugue state. And so, like, it kind of makes sense. I feel like violence, extreme violence can bring on just you not

knowing what's going on. It's not violence. It's anger. Because I bet that during that fight, you were probably the angriest you have ever been in your entire life. I guess. I don't even remember. I was perfectly fine afterwards. I'll tell you that much. And it's the power of man. So Gary Ridgeway would pick up sex workers

from the areas around the CETAC International Airport and the interstate Corridor, pretend as if it was going to be a normal transaction, then he would strangle women to death before dumping the bodies in isolated wooded areas around the Seattle-Tacoma region. Gary was able to do this dozens of times because the area in which Gary obtained and disposed of victims was almost tailor-made for a serial killer. Thanks, God. God did that.

God and man. You're right on. God and man working together. Yeah, there's a reason I think Bigfoot's in those fucking hills. Yeah. Well, during the years Ridgeway was active, the corridor where you'd find CETAC Airport between Seattle and Tacoma was known as the Strip. The Strip was essentially a sex buffet of lost women plying their trade on two-lane highways and logging roads, which was all prior to C-Tax and Corporation as the city, surrounded by wilderness.

So all Ridgeway had to do was find a place where he could murder someone out of sight, and once the deed was done, he was spoiled for choice as to where he wanted to dump the body. Now, had Ridgeway buried his victims instead of just rolling them into ditches or leaving them out in the open, the Pacific Northwest likely wouldn't have even known there was a serial killer on the loose because his victims were all sex workers whose disappearances likely wouldn't have been investigated. Well, they would have known there was a serial killer on the loose because, as we'll get into in the next episode, there were about four to six serial killers operating at the same time as Gary Ridgeway in this area. Really? I also truly think the key to Gary's successes,

was simplicity. I think if we're adding... He didn't get all fancy with it. No, no, no. I think we're adding steps. Hold, like, trophies or anything like that, right? No, no. Well, he did it in work...

He did bad, horrific things, but he did it in the old-fashioned way by letting it just sit out. You know, like, he was not digging holes. If he was digging holes, we might have actually created a lot more evidence than he wanted to because he's a fucking moron. He might have, yeah.

But after looking at Ridgeway again, there really is so much more to his story than just, a guy with an ag queue of 82, a grudge against women, and a Bible to clutch whenever he needed justification for his actions. Because last time when we did it, like, we went really hard on the missionary killer angle. He did it because he believed that the sex workers deserved it, that he was getting them, that he was wiping the earth clean of these sinful ladies.

It's a lot more complicated than that. That's way too simplistic. Oh, it's way more complicated than that because he has this push and pull with them. You even hear now, now that I've watched chunks of the conflimate. professions can see it, he had that sort of like, the only ones to get me. But also, they must be killed. They must have to kill the bitches. Because he's like, he can't handle the fact that they're the only ones giving them any form of affection at the time.

Mm-hmm. And then he got married three times. Three times. And it's easy, guys. I would push back on him not getting any affection. Gary Ridgeway was never, ever, ever without a girlfriend or a wife. Ladies, love Gary. He was fine for a trailer park.

He looked all right. What? He looks fine. He looked like a shop teacher. Side stories L-P-O-T-L-G-Mil.com. Please answer Eddie. I said fine. I didn't say to get past.

I think that's past. What we missed last time was that Ridgeway exhibited a wide range of serial killer behaviors that we saw in many of the most infamous mass murderers of the late 20th century. He somewhat attempted to be a kind of BTK or a zodiac by writing near unintelligible letters to the press and police, and he committed necrophilia multiple times throughout his most active period. In other words, he exhibited far more complicated behavior than what we had originally covered. Thank you. People said what I do complicated.

Since that's years. Earlier, you shortened Jack to rip or a jack, and I never heard anyone do that before. You know, you can call him saucy Jack. But I think Zodiac killer, I would look, Zodi. Zodian. And Zodian! That's how you call it a

and he'd be like, hey, hey, hey, shut the fuck up. You got your mask, Zodai! You got the gun of the knife today, Zonai. I never should have told that guy. God. But the question people always have about these guys

is why they did what they did. And while the easy answer is, It's they do it because it makes them feel good. The real question is, how does a mind that gets pleasure from murder develop? And why the fuck were there so many of them during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? Where do they all go? Well, now that we're decades past these crimes and we can take a larger view of the 20th century, I mean, the 20th century is 26 years ago at this point.

Shut up. We might finally have an answer here. something far more definitive and provable beyond the soul theory that leaded gasoline ruin the brains of the boomer generation. But it is going to take us three full episodes to explain it. And now that we got a whole team working on this weekly grind of ours, we can finally tell the story of the Green River killer the way it was meant to be told. Through pantomime. You can't hear it. You can't hear it. It's hard. You just imagine. Describe it if you could.

Henry is choking his hands. Now he's crying while he does it. And hey, that's it. Yeah, no stabs or nothing. No, no, he didn't. Just all jokes. Yeah. Now, I think that there has been a major calm down in this type of stuff because of DNA testing.

I think that people just get caught way earlier. It's part. That is part of it. It is definitely a part of it. Because I think people are just as evil now as they were back then. But the phenomenon might have changed to more. effective attention seeking. Because I think a lot of serial

killing does also involve attention seeking. And now it's much easier because you could just get all you need to get a military grade rifle and bring it to a public square and squeeze off a bunch of shots and then you immediately get all the attention to you grave. Yeah. Now you just do it all at once. Yeah. Yeah.

And there are other things besides DNA testing. There's also social media. People are, it's noticed when people go missing a lot faster. Yeah. Things like that. So yeah, people do get caught earlier, but the one... And kids don't run away anymore. They need

to stay in their homes now. Yeah. Yeah. Because kids are, you don't have any functional skills. So they don't go hang out by the train yards anymore. Sure. Yeah. Now they're all just playing video games. Yeah. You're like you missed the days when kids ran away. Now the scariest place to be is on Roblox. But the other

thing is, is that the 70s, 80s and 90s, like the one-on-one crime, like just general all-around crime, that is way, way down. It's still way. I mean, there's still just as many lost people around that you can prey on today as there were back then. In fact, there are more. There are far more people in this country now than there were back then.

But there are reasons why things have calmed down so much and why crime is at its lowest point ever. Yeah. Also, like, I feel like back in the day, you would get into a fist fight, a cop would catch you, like, all right, boys, break it up, go home, walk it off. Now you're like, everyone just goes to jail. Well, it's also back in the day, not the children weren't armed. And I think they used to just fight each other and then they wouldn't go back and get guns and then come back and finish the jobs. Yeah.

Well, maybe so, maybe no. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, but doesn't think we're going to get more into that in the coming episodes. Okay. But before we get to the story of Gary Ridgeway, let's acknowledge our sources. First, we've got the classic Green River Running Red by Anne Rule. It is thick.

800 pages. Wow. It's a big one. Yeah. Anne Rolls, she's the same one who wrote the definitive book on Ted Bundy, famous true crime author. Then we've got the source for the juicy stuff, which was found in Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer by James Richmond.

And finally, we got the new kid on the block, Murder Land by Caroline Frazier. This book was released just last year. And for me, it really is the final word on why and how the 70s, 80s, and 90s will forever be known in the annals of true crime history is the era of the serial killer. So, without further ado, let's get into the story of Gary Ridgeway, aka the Green River Killer. Peepad's Gary! Peepaid's Gary! So Gary Leon Ridgeway was a...

Yeah, Gary Leon. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, he was born in February at 1949 in Salt Lake City to Mary Rita and Thomas Ridgeway. These two people hold the distinction of being one of those rare double shots of horrible serial killer parents. because both of them absolutely contributed to the horrific mindset that enabled Gary to do what he eventually did. Usually it's just one, but this time, boom, two barrels. And that's how we get the number one killer in America next to Samuel Little,

who, you know, again, I feel like he didn't count enough because he didn't really, he wasn't proud. Gary was proud. Yeah. Now, Gary grew up as the middle child in a struggling family that grew their own food and searched junkyards for useful scrap that could be fixed up and sold. It was a family trait that Gary would carry throughout the rest of his life as a free man.

It was a practice he called Fandon Treasures. It's good, buddy, you guys get all this new stuff? It's crazy. It's getting old stuff. It's coming to rusty, peed, and could be pooping. Great, it's treasure to me. You do it like this? You do this?

Are there scrap families? Scrap families? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're very popular, still to this day. Yeah, my family was, we were like, firmly middle. class, we still love going to the dump.

That's great. Wow. Yeah, you know, they still cut the copper wiring. You know who's got a lot of copper wiring? What? Data centers. Let's go! Nerudo run! So after a short-lived and failed attempt at running a bar together,

Mary Rita Ridgeway settled temporarily into the role of a housewife, while Gary's father, Thomas, worked construction and a few stents as a truck driver. One job had late hours, while the other required Thomas to be for days at a time. Once, when Mary Rita was home alone,

Gary's little brother Eddie got sick. The Ridgeways had no money, so Mary Rita took Little Eddie out into the snowbank to bring his fever down. The kid did survive, but Little Eddie came away with permanent brain damage owing to Mary Rita's attempts at a folk remedy.

Like he was Conan's sword. She just held him by his ankles and dipped him into the snow. The tang, hold. Little Eddie, however, was not the only person with developmental problems in the family. Gary Ridgeway himself was always described as slow. Besides being dyslexic, it took him a long time to memorize anything. And when he did, his recall was still full of gaps.

Gary couldn't remember the names of his own pets. Couldn't remember the names of his fellow children. Sox, scraps, dusty, spookers. Get out of here. He was considered such a lost cause from a young age that teachers would routinely sit him in the back of the class just so he wouldn't bother the other children so they wouldn't have to pay attention.

They could just forget about it. Shut up, Gary. The kids with a future are trying to learn, Gary. I'll be burned to school down. A slow intellect, however, was. at Gary's only childhood problem. Oh, no. Gary Ridgway was a bedwetter,

which only added to the annoyance that his mother, Mary Rita, felt towards him for being slow. Can we change the distinction here? Because some people bed wet. Sure. Gary Ridgeway was a bed-soaker. Yeah, yeah.

There's a different. There's a distinct difference in bed peepee. He's the Michael Phelps. Yeah. Of bed peepee. Yeah, he was a waterbed filler upper. Yeah. Some people are 70% liquid.

Gary Ridgeway as a child was like 83% like... Yeah, he's like in that first X-Men movie where the guy the senator turns into water. Yes, that's him. Well, Gary also had severe allergies and a constant runny nose, which he always wiped with his shirt sleeve. His eyes would swell and tears would constantly run down his face,

which earned him the nickname Crybaby amongst his fellow children. That, of course, was in addition to the bullying he got just for being slow. By the age of eight, Gary remembered being, always sad, always angry, because there was just so many things wrong with them. Little things, but they added up. Out of the three Ridgeway boys, Gary had two brothers. Gary became the primary target for his parents' anger and punishment. It's like the Goldilocks scenario. Yeah, yeah. But for punishing your child. Gary's younger brother Eddie, he had the brain damage. So he got pity from Gary's mother and her own guilt about the fever often got Little Eddie a pass. But Gary's

his older brother Greg was intelligent and handsome. So his parents were constantly asking, why can't you be more like your brother Greg, Gary? Why can you be more like Greg? I ask myself every day, mommy. I wish I could be more like Greg. And honestly, it's kind of nice if you could maybe put my head on ice a little bit. Maybe you should be a man like him and Eddie because everybody likes it more.

Oh, there's a Greg Ridgeway who's a professor of criminology. It's not the same guy, but I find it interesting. It is interesting. Wow. It's like a guy who runs a hamburger joint named Burger. Hey, my name's Mr. Cheeseburger. All right, that's the whole name. It's my wife Buns. To make matters even worse, Gary's family moved frequently, so Gary never had time to make friends. Wherever the Ridgeway family went, the bullies found Gary. But Gary had no refuge at home, either. His father would actually get angry at Gary instead of the bullies every time Gary got the shit beat out of him.

Now, because he was slow and because the family moved around so much, Gary got held back a grade in elementary school, and it wasn't the last time that this would happen to Gary. But when Gary learned that he was going to have to repeat a grade, something snapped because the kids had nothing but hatred for him and his parents had nothing but disappointment. In fact, Mary Rita came to believe that Gary was just lying about not being able to read. I wish I honestly could be this would be truly be the funniest prank of all time, but it's not, you know, I can't read. I don't know how to read. And so, Gary's legendary anger, the anger that would be unleashed upon the Pacific Northwest of the 1980s began to manifest itself physically. After learning that he was going to be held back, Gary walked to his school and smashed out several windows by throwing rocks. Tell me, I'm a, I can't go back to eighth grade.

I'm going to get them through a pile of rocks here and throw these rocks in there. This is like second grade. Second, third grade. It's around there. And I went to a school where our classes were, you know, between 10 and 15 kids really small. And, man, at the start of every school year, it was always the kids who got held back. Because every year you'd get a kid added to your class and you'd lose a kid. Yeah.

And those were always the bullies. They were always the angriest kids. Because they were also older and bigger than everybody. Far older, far bigger. Oh, yeah, the kid who broke my collarbone. He was the one who spiked me. He'd been held back twice, I think, by that point. I made him very strong.

He was very strong. He was incredibly strong. I think he's dead now. Yeah, there was a guy who straight up, like, shot someone in the head in his front yard, and he was like 20 in my high school. Yeah, yeah. He's just like, he's smoking with the security officers. from your grade.

Now, around the same time that Gary was being held back, Gary also started experimenting with fire. In second grade, he started playing with matches and eventually set his own garage ablaze. He became terrified and ran away while a neighbor called 911. And even though he assumes his parents beat him for starting the fire, he said he doesn't remember, his experimentation with fire didn't stop.

He just learned to do it elsewhere so he wouldn't get caught. So starting in the second grade, Gary started setting fires in garage around his neighborhood before running away when he heard sirens to hide until it got dark enough to safely sneak back home. It's fucking crazy. Just know there's this demented second grader, seven-year-old running around your neighborhood. Any open garage running inside, setting it on fire. Yeah, dude, I feel like that's how you...

The goblin loose. It is a goblin loose. And that's why... But I think you have full immunity to clunk a little child in the head that's doing that. Like, if you're setting things on fire and setting structures on fire, I think you can get one clunk from a stick. His dad tried.

I know what I'd say? I wouldn't say a clunk in the head because that can cause permanent damage. Kick him in the stomach. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go kick in the ass. Get out of you, kid. You can tie them up, throw them in a swimming pool.

Yeah, that'd be fun as hell. God, these are all great to do when I'm a sick of child. Now, besides the bed of wedding and the arson, besides that. Gary also had a streak of animal cruelty. When he got older, he found that he enjoyed hurting things, starting with the birds that he would shoot with his BB gun. Gary found that when the birds hit the ground dead, it made him laugh.

Another time, in a moment of frustration, Gary took one of his own pet cats and suffocated it by throwing it in the cooler and shutting the lid. And so, that brings us back to the infamous McDonald Triad, which for years was used to identify serial killers. See, it was widely believed, specifically after true crime got so popular in the 2010s that if someone, someone wet the bed beyond the age of five, started fires, and engaged in animal cruelty as a child, it was a good indicator that they would become a serial killer as an adult. But while the McDonald triad has since been discredited or at least criticized, I got curious about the triad's origins when it all came back with Gary Ridgeway. And I got curious as to why people no longer use it as an indicator that someone might be a serial killer. It's because lots of people do it. It's not that uncommon.

It's really not. I mean, I'm glad it's not that common, but it's not uncommon enough that it's just tied to serial killers. Yeah, I know, but you're a boy. Fire's cool. Stepping on a lizard's cool. Yeah, you get over it pretty fast. I know that I, anytime I was curious about doing something weird to an animal and stuff, like the second anything felt like bad, I was like, ah, you know, like my brain would be like, no, I wasn't into it. Yeah.

I always saw that as Once you made the jump from like Cold-blooded to warm-blooded That's when you like really That's when the evil really starts That's what they say That is the line Strangely enough

I never crossed that line myself But yeah Frogs beware I mean frogs are different A frog is different than like a corgi Yeah exactly It's a big difference Well the McDonald triad came from a six page paper

Called Threat to Kill by a forensic psychiatrist named John McDonald, published in 1963. McDonald was studying violent psychiatric patients and noticed that bedwetting, beyond the age of five, compulsive fire-starting, and animal cruelty appeared in many of the children on these psychiatric wards. McDonald, however, never explicitly said

that his triad of bed-wetting, fire-starting, and animal cruelty and children led them to become serial killers as adults. It actually didn't even lead them necessarily to become violent as adults. In fact, McDonald only used a sample of one hundred patients, and none of the people he studied for the paper had actually committed violence. They'd only threatened it, hence his title, Threat to Kill. But the pioneers of behavioral science, the FBI, profilers Robert Ressler, Anne Burgess, and

John Douglas, whose story was loosely adapted for the Netflix show Mind Hunter, they combined threat to kill with a book McDonald had written in 1960 called The Murderer and His Victims. They then ran with the so-called McDonald triad in a direction that even McDonald himself didn't expect, all in an attempt to try and solve the why of serial killers. When serial killers began to be a, well, the research to acknowledge it. The main issue is, as always we see, is that they want a structural fix that works every time. Sure. So they'll give you money, right?

Because even the guys in within these, like the FBI and all this stuff, They have to, like, pitch their own inner projects up the channel. So it's, like, stuff like this. They put together this, like, McDonald Triad, like, fix all. Like, look, this is how we'll find serial killers and stop them. It was just, it was a part of a, you know, a massive thing. And then everybody jumped on it because, like, oh, good, then we can fix serial killers. And it's just like, oh, well, let's hold on a second.

Yeah. After the McDonald's triad was introduced into the cultural zeitgeist by the FBI behavioral science, unit, it became almost a comfort to a lot of laypeople. It was a path towards maybe explaining the act of serial killing, which to most people is something that seems utterly unexplainable. But in 2018, authors Charlotte Parfit and Emma Aileen, they looked at the McDonald triad with fresh eyes and found that while the triad is not necessarily a predictor for future serial killing or even violent behavior, it is most definitely a sign of childhood abuse. And as we know, while not all serial killers have childhood abuse, the vast majority do have absolutely horrendous childhoods.

So we can forgive the BSU for jumping the gun a bit on the McDonald triad. This revelation was actually a fucking, it was a great relief to me personally because I absolutely hit every single point of the McDonald triad as a child. I wet the bed beyond the age of five. I can't admit it now as a 43-year-old man. I was absolutely obsessed with fire. And although I'm not proud of it, I dabbled in. animal cruelty with various local amphibians in very cruel and increasingly bizarre ways. Yeah.

Like shit the disturb memories that disturb me today. Yeah, but it's good that they disturb you. Yes. Me too. You know, I, you know, tie a lizard to a bottle rocket, you know, shit like that. You know, it was boys having fun. See, I was always with the girls. Yeah.

You never did that. We played animals. Yeah. Where we'd act like different animals. That's fun. I did that game, but it was always in a pool. I was always a dolphin and I lost. I didn't wet the bed as much, but, like, I slept walked and peed in cabinets.

Yeah. That's cool. I slept to walk a ton, too. Yeah. I'd had none of these. Really? Yeah. Hmm.

Good boy. You were such a good boy. Yeah, he was. I was, but I didn't sleep until I was like eight. Yeah. And there's no extra lizards and fucking queens. Yeah, no, no. I wasn't like that.

I wasn't surrounded my nature. But it turns out the McDonald Tried is not. not an indicator that we had the seed of a serial killer or the seed of a violent person laying dormant somewhere inside of us. It is, however, an indicator that my personal childhood environment created conditions where I have to do a shitload of therapy to untangle all the shit that happened to me and around me when I was a kid if I ever want to live a happy and healthy life. It wasn't my fault that I was raised in a West Texas nightmare factory, seemingly designed to traumatize people like myself, but it is my responsibility to deal with

that shit so it doesn't continue. to fuck up my life. Gary Ridgeway, needless to say, never dealt with anything. And the anger he felt as a result of his childhood traumas, which are about to get a lot worse, it was so intense that it contributed to the violent deaths of dozens of people. And of course, the childhood trauma is only one of many factors that led to the creation of Gary Ridgeway. I also think it's Gary's attitude. I think Gary's attitude's got a little bit too. Wow. Henry thinks Gary's Ridgeway has a bad attitude. I think that he needs a...

People come here for intense hot takes. They really do. They really do. I mean, I fuck it. I hope Netflix keeps us after that one. I for a thing he's a real jerk. Thanks, Norm. When Gary was 11 years old,

his family finally moved to the Seattle Tacoma area, where Gary would live until he was finally arrested decades later. The Pacific Northwest is also where Gary Ridgeway's behavior would greatly escalate in a number of ways for reasons that we will discuss in depth on episode

two. Gary's dad got a job driving metro buses in the Seattle area, while his mother got a part-time gig as a salesperson at a local JC Penny. That's what my mom did. Really? She worked at's JC Pennings. Really? Pennings. Are you lying about anything in your

childhood about the things that you did or didn't do? No. Mom didn't want to me till I was a wreck. That was dad's job. I spent a lot of time in J.C. pennies, but it was just my mom. You know, that was the card, the place that we give her credit. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's, you know, all of our, all of our families did credit card fraud at J.C. Penny. That's also where the ticket master was.

Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Wait in line. So, the family bought their first house in an area that is now known as the city of Cetac. But with yet another move, Gary's bed. wedding returned with a vengeance. Starting when Gary was around the age of 12, Mary Rita Ridgeway began angrily yanking him from bed when he would wake up and announce that he had wet himself.

She'd drag him to the bathroom and throw him into a tub of ice cold water, screaming the quote, Only babies wet the bed, Gary. Only babies! Are you a baby, Gary? A direct quote. I can do it.

I can do it by the I went the bed Okay You've covered it like being 12 They're like Hey Just you know With the bed

Oh man My bed's all wet Mom Well this would be yelled Repeated While Mary Rita Dragged Gary through the house Which of course

Woke everyone up And it was meant To add to Gary's Humiliation This would happen At least three times a week During this time period

Sometimes it would happen Every single night And this happened up until Gary was about 15 or 16 years old From 12 to 15 or 16 years of this Let's just say I don't know if it was just about the peepie Marcus Well, we're gonna get into that right now I don't know if it was and that's the problem is that sometimes Mommies can be a little naughty too

And that's what you gotta be careful of because sometimes mommies if you're too naughty You make the baby naughty I hope all of our mothers out there really pay attention. Just know that, right? No, you naughty, you know-a-mise. It's a good advice.

You naughty mommy makes naughty baby. Yeah. Write that down. Wink, and that makes angry daddy. Because the return to bed wedding coincided with Gary Ridgeway reaching puberty, the mommy wires got appallingly

crossed. Mary Rita would often leave her bathrobe open, especially when she was dragging Gary to the bathtub in the middle of the night. And Gary would become aroused at the side of his mother's big hooters.

Because you know moms, I always think, you always love when my mom slept in the nude. You know, like, you know how fucking awesome that was when your mom got done with the penny. She got done off of pennies, kicked off those heels, stripped down to her bush, and just fucking relaxed.

It's crazy. I grew up in South Florida, one of the hottest places in the world, and I don't think my mom could have worn more clothes. My mom was so sheathed. She was so, clothed. Thank Christ. Once Mara Rita

got Gary to the bath, she would furiously scrub his genitals until they were raw. Baby's penis is covered in urine. Baby's penis needs to be cleaned by Mommy. It's crazy we got all these clothes. That was a direct record.

She would overly focus on cleaning his privates while barely dressed herself. Bobby, I think we're just somewhere around the top. Then she'd vigorously dry him off when she was finished. And Gary remembered many interaction during this whole process. Gary, in fact, said that his so-called sexual awakening came while his mother was scrubbing as junk with a grimace on her face. Oh, look at what you done, your pig. Oh, look at this.

Oh, look what you. Oh, you're disgusting. Urine-covered dick. Oh, I hate how covered in piss and shit you are. The pig, you got that from your mother. Yes. getting called a pig. My mommy.

They gave him old Henry's mommy. He's treated like a bad dog. Yeah. Yeah. And later, Gary said that he was both angered and incredibly horny every time his mother scrubbed the urine from his genitals, which of course fused anger, hatred, and sex in Gary's developing mind. And keep in mind that this is not something that happened once, twice, five times, ten times, three times a week for years. if not every night for years.

Could I ask you both? Like, let's say you were fathers, and you were, like, let's say, let's put yourselves in this kind of scenario. Mr. Ridgeway? Yes. I'm Mr. Ridgeway. Yes.

And you, like, noticed every single time, you know, they're bringing him in there. They're washing all the pee off of his penis and he's getting super hard, right? And the boy keeps getting older, right? At some point, when he gets hard, like, do you think that, like, there's no like putting some breaks on the process here you're assuming that the father ever got out of bed

he's lucky he is thomas ridgeway would just stay in bed it's not like he would come in and supervise but what if you saw your son getting hard every time his mom was why your teenage son every time she washes genitals right covered in urine he got hard for him conversation's going to be had yeah would you be like this should probably i think we should let his coach do this Like this maybe is a teacher's job They should be doing this at school Yeah I just think he was just not present You know

It's probably just hammered and smoking cigarettes in the other room And not giving a fuck about his family Being a real dad He was also he was terrified of Mary Rita Like Mary Rita was an incredibly Dominering woman But don't worry I mean he's His contributions to Gary Ridgeway's pathology

Is gonna be coming up soon It's just because of Mary Rita's got those big old stinky bags That's right. She's big, stinky bag. Big old, stinky floppy bags. How I wish I was baby Gary. Since the area where the Ridgeway family had moved to was not yet a city,

their home was surrounded by woods where the Ridgeway boys would explore and play. Gary, therefore, became very familiar with the forests of the Pacific Northwest, and that familiarity would later be used to find all the right spots to hide bodies. Partly, though, Gary was going out into the woods to avoid

the constant complex between his parents. Mary Rita had become more dominant over the years, ordering Thomas to beat their children when she thought they deserved it. Gary therefore began to view his father as weak and soft, while women in general became monsters. Mary Rita also got far more serious about religion. The Ridgeway boys were brought to Mary Rita's Catholic Church every Sunday, but their father was barred from coming because the local priest had a problem with the divorce Thomas had before his

marriage to marry Rita. This of course caused even more rifts. Let's go, Gary. We're going in church

where your father's not alive. Let's go, Gary. Oh, you got urine all over. Let me just, let me really watch them out. Let's go.

Your father's not loud at God's house. Let's go, Gary. Your impression is scaring Marcus. Oh, let me

pack my tits. I forgot I've had my tits that loose. And stinky. Yeah. They're big, yeah. Yeah, it's before they made tit deodorant. Big stinky bags.

Big stinky flopping bags. Even though Mary Rita was obviously noticing her son's bath time boners, Did I see you on JC Betty's earlier today? Sexual pleasure was something that was discussed with scorn in the Ridgeway home. Mary Rita herself taught her boys that masturbation was one of the, the worst sins of all. She actually told them that it was better to rape a woman than it was to masturbate. This is what... So much changes. This is what Gary was being told right as he entered puberty. And the shit that Gary was hearing from his mother resulted in a myriad of abnormal

sexual habits. He became a neighborhood window peeper, spying on girls in his neighborhood before being chased off by a parade of angry fathers. In one instance, Gary believed when an older The girl came over to his house with friends to watch TV that all he had to do to have sex with her was to surreptitiously put his erection in her field of vision by pulling his shorts to the side and showing off his erect penis. It seems that the elevator reaches floor. Ding dong. Over here. Over here. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey.

Hey. a penis pump and he'd like get it all engorging open to the window and he would do this thing where women go by he'd go excuse me miss may i interest you in this oh it's awful i hate when they're nice yeah it's like almost worse yeah it's like yeah it's like yeah well supposedly gary watched tv with his neighbor and a whole group of his older brother's friends and he tried this bizarre little game over and over again for months the girl never once reacted or at the very least never acknowledged it. She did the right thing.

Well, she should just sort of stop going over there. Yeah, sure slugged him in the fucking mouth. Yeah. And so should some of those boys. Yeah. Well,

you know what it is. But I think no one noticed. That's what he said. He always said that no one noticed. No one said anything. And I think if he was bullied as much as he was, because this is like his older brother's friends. Yeah.

And like, I know neither of y'all got older brothers. I got two older brothers. When your older brother's friends, see anything to make funnier for they go for it they go for fucking hard

but what an ultimate example of what Gary's sort of talking about right he can't even pull his dick out and get a reaction he's in this area of all these kids and he's going to anybody see what Gary's doing anybody see what Gary's doing and he's in the corner and there nobody everybody's just got

and he's like nobody cares Gary puts his penis and that's exactly how we got away with it for so long Yeah, yeah it is. Now, Gary was a loner both before and after puberty, and since he believed masturbation was a sin that was worse than rape, he got his jimmies out by becoming a froture. How do you actually, how do you, is frotto?

Honestly, let's not put the French fucking spin on it. I never heard the word before my whole life. Fraudder. Fraudder. You call them just a fraud. Fraudage. Yeah, that's the terms. It's when you rub up or brush up against somebody for sexual pleasure.

Ah, yeah, of course the French thought of that. But you know, it's like they do it on the train It happens a lot in New York City It's the thing of where you could just kind of like The guy just sort of lets the tip of his penis touch you Or it's also trying to rub up against a woman's breast You know just like this And you're always making it look like an accident

Like oh sorry but very much doing it on purpose Walk around with the palms of their hands Facing out and stuff like that Yeah Are you a frotter? No, I got grabbed Okay, yeah Yeah men don't

See, I've been frauded. Yeah, several times. I've been frauded myself a few times. But it was also around this time that Gary found that killing living creatures made him feel better about his anger. After suffocating the aforementioned cat at the age of 14 and throwing the corpse amongst the local roadkill, Gary found that killing something, killing anything, it made him feel strong and important. While Gary was discovering this disturbing quirk to his personality, his father took a second job at a mortuary and, quite unwisely decided to be open and honest with his son about everything he heard while working with the dead.

Thomas Ridgway would tell the teenage Gary stories about a co-worker who would commit necrophilia with the female corpses. He would go into grotesque and unnecessary detail with his young son about his co-worker's necrophilia. So this is a funny story. I don't know why you're not laughing. Son, this is a funny story about the time I saw Carlos and we Eiffel Towers. that old blind woman. Stop taking notes. I'm telling a story. It's so interested.

God damn it. Every fucking time you say we don't spend any time together. In the moment that we find something that I think that we're going to connect on, you just blow me off. What's he like? Well, this caused necrophilia to become central to Gary's sexual fantasies

because he began to believe that when you were having sex with a corpse, there were no feelings involved one way or the other. It could be super casual. Yeah. Thomas would also be quite vocal about his personal hatred towards sex workers. He thought they were subhuman. And even though Gary would become a frequent customer on the block,

both with sex workers he did and did not murder, he would hold the same opinions as his father throughout his life. Now, as far as his mother went, she also overshared with Gary when it came to the sexual escapades that came as a result of her work at J.C. Penny. Did your mom ever talk about her sexual escapades at J.C. Penny? the how sexy things got? The worst part is when I learned how she knew the term Bukaki.

And at first I thought it was because she went by the sushi area in the food court. And it turns out, no, no, no, no. She met Mr. Yaki-Moto. Uh-huh. No, no, she never had sex there. No. I don't think so. Because when we went to J.C. Pennies, you got to remember, that was a classy place for us.

Sure. Oh, yeah. That was the classy place. That's where I got my communion suit. Yeah. Yeah, well, J.C. Penny. I mean, really, I mean, Dillards was always considered to be a bond. You guys had, you know, we dreamt of Dillards.

Yeah, really? Yeah, occasionally we'd go to a Bloomingdale's. Yeah. Or a birdhines. Who are you? What are you? Oh, Mr. Vanderbilt? Oh, over here?

Don't even get me started on service merchandise. No, my mom never fucked or got sucked or fucked or got fucking gaped in a J.C. Penny's. At least that she told you about it. Yeah, I'll call her. I'll call her an ass. Just keep her if she told me and she wouldn't tell you. I'm trying to. personally, I'm trying to separate the art from the artist.

The art being her motherhood of me. Understandable. Well, Mary Rita would tell Gary how much she enjoyed measuring men who needed to be fit for pants. Some men, she said, would get involuntary erections from her touch. Like you, Gary? Usually when I'm drying them off. Others would have meant a certain scent that Mary Rita would inhale while she knelt in front of their crotch. that's not real.

No, it's like a musk. Yeah, she likes to shoot scent out of their cocks. No, she's smelling a guy's dirty-ass balls. Yeah, that's turning. She's turned on by smelly balls. Yeah, she's turned on by Smalley balls. And she told her son about this. Yeah, which is like the most, like, truly one of the, yeah, sure, you're going to be into dirty,

Smalley balls. God bless you. But I'm saying that, you know, you just save that for the quilting room. But think about this. He's got, his mother is talking about how much she gets turned on by smelly balls. His father is talking about like, yeah, you can fuck a dead girl.

It's fine. It's okay. And this is what Gary Ridgeway's fucking growing up with. Is it bad that I just got deja vu? It's interesting. It's certainly interesting. This used to be my playground. But Mary Rita also continued pushing her son around to the point of depression and deep embarrassment, even beyond the bedwetting incidents.

So, Gary began fan. fantasizing about murdering his own mother in great detail. He thought about stabbing her in the heart, choking her to death, and setting the house on fire with her still inside. It's the whole house on fire. Gary even... Sit the building on fire. Get the building on fire.

Gary even fantasized about torturing his mother, thinking often about what it would be like to sew up her vagina with a needle and a threat. It'd be difficult, but also I'd be proud if I could do it. Just because I finally finished something I wanted. I mean, that's the first time he showed creativity. Yeah. Just trying to stay positive. I suppose it does show vague creativity.

I bet you he just watched his mom preparing the turkey one year for Thanksgiving. He's like, that's a good idea. From fantasizing about killing his mother, Gary moved on to fantasizing about raping and killing his classmates. He began following them home with a massive erection while thinking about all the horrible things he wanted to do. Gary privately referred to this as patrolling because these serial killers do love their little terms for their little games. It's all validating, it's all the shit in their head

that makes it a structure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually, Gary's constant rage translated itself into property damage, breaking and entering, excessive drinking, and theft. But Gary found that the only thing that really released the pressure valve all the way was violence.

And Gary's first violent act towards another human came in 1965 when he was just 16 years old. This is like out of Stephen King novel. It really is. In a wooded area beside Gary's high school, Gary stumbled upon a six-year-old kid dressed as a cowboy, innocently

just playing. For some reason, seeing this child enjoying an afternoon playing cowboy, this filled Gary with uncontrollable rage. Was he an Indian? I don't think he had any Cherokee. So he approached the boy with a plan. He asked the kid if he wanted

to go into the woods with Gary where they'd build a fort together. Because, Gary said, there were a lot of people around, quote, Who'd like to kill little boys like you? So, when Gary got the kid out to the woods and the kid picked up a stick, Gary pulled out his knife and stabbed the child in the torso,

hitting his liver. Gary watched and laughed as the blood flowed out of the wound and filled up the child's cowboy boots. But instead of finishing the act, Gary simply walked away. The boy made his way to the road and was found bleeding out by a teacher.

He survived. But Gary Ridgeway would not be named as the perpetrator of this crime for another 36 years. This, of course, was after he was arrested as the Green River killer, and he began listing his crimes throughout his life. The cops looked back at the records, looked and found when Gary said it happened that there was a kid who was stabbed, dressed as a little cowboy, it all happened. Gary Ridgeway could not remember the names of his childhood pets, but he had a near photographic memory of every single crime he ever committed. That's not true. He would, well, it depends on what.

But you could tell that he fantasized and thought about the stuff that was important to him. Yeah. There's a lot of things that were photographic. There were some things that were hazy. Let's just say he was all fucked up. He was all fucked up. But, I mean, it just turns out for somebody who couldn't remember his pets, it was shocking how many different shallow graves he could remember. I just can't believe he was dressing up like a cowboy at 16.

No. I was getting high and shit. No, no, the little boy was dressed as a cowboy. Oh, okay. No, Gary, Gary, Gary, Richard Rydrae was like, phew, I'm a cowboy today. How do you, I hope you're ready to settle up and go down to the bridge? Oh, so the kid was much younger. Okay.

Yeah, the kid was six years old. Oh, I see. It all makes sense now. I'm sorry. It's all right. But while the incident with the little cowboy was Gary's first act of serious violence against another human, he also very likely committed his first murder around this time. Later, Gary would say that he was unsure if his first murder was a hallucination or a dream,

which, as you're about to find out, is a common theme amongst Gary's confessions. There is, however, usually evidence linking Gary's hazy recollections to real-life events, so they are worth taking seriously. In 1964, Gary said that he and a younger boy were swimming in a lake near Seattle when Gary suddenly wrapped his legs around his swimmate's neck and dragged the kid into the water below. Gary said that the kid did fight back, but Gary held the kid underwater until he stopped moving.

And once the kid was dead, Gary said he pulled the body under a nearby dock and left it floating there. Now, while that might have been a hallucination or a dream, public records show that two boys did indeed drown in that same lake during the same year Gary recalled drowning this boy. So it is possible that Gary was responsible for at least one of them. And it's not uncommon for serial killers at this age when they're teenagers,

especially even if they end up killing women later on to kill little boys and to just kill anyone. Well, they're around a little boy. Yeah. And that's, but it sounds a lot like Ted Bundy. It sounds a lot like there's that story, you know, with Ted Bundy with the little girl when he was a little girl. And it matches all his mo's later on. Mm-hmm, actually, and we'll find that Gary Ridgeway and Ted Bundy share a lot in common. But even though Gary's life was becoming increasingly dark, both within and without, he actually evened out once he got to high school when it came to social interaction.

He actually began dating and eventually got a pretty girl named Claudia Craig to go steady after the two of them met at the supermarket where they both worked. interestingly Claudia's mother later said that when Gary came over to their house when he was 16 17 he'd just sit there

and never say a word one day she said that he came over and just sat in a chair for a full eight hours didn't say a word to anyone

that's fascinating just stared at the wall he's just weirdo dude he's just always been he doesn't know how to human like he doesn't know how to be a human being that's better

jammering on for a fucking eight hours that is true that is true it's all fine if it wasn't Gary Ridgeway I'd far rather forget that he was there than to get to the end of the eight hours and look if you bring that kid over here one more time on a fucking murder story I hate Gary

Gary smells like pee yeah but by the end of it Gary Ridgeway came out of high school in 1970 with the reputation of a normal if dim-witted individual he'd been held back twice by the end of it and therefore graduated at the age of 20, barely able to read or write.

Wow. But since this was 1970 and the draft of the Vietnam War was in full effect, Gary was actually smart enough to join the Navy to avoid the army. Because in 1970, guys like Gary Ridgeway, i.e. guys that were poor and not too bright, they were amongst the first to be handed a rifle before being sent to die in the jungles of Vietnam. God, he would have been a great Vietnamese corpse. God, he would have been great over there. So after going through basic training in San Diego,

Gary was assigned to the USS Vancouver in the Philippines, making him yet another serial killer who served in the Vietnam War but came nowhere near combat. So interesting. Seven or eight. Wow. That we know of.

And that's just that we know of. Who are some of the popular ones? David Berkowitz, Leonard Lake. Yeah, Leonard Lake was a good. He definitely, yeah, he was a big liar. I think Arthur Shawcross maybe. Yes, I'm pretty certain Arthur Shock Cross.

Henry's dad. Yeah. My daddy only could kill my dreams. Well, like so many other serial killers in Vietnam, Gary Ridgeway discovered the wide world of sex workers overseas. David Berkowitz was another who got very involved with sex workers over there. Yeah, you can barely tell. Yeah, you don't know. Apparently, though, something happened to Gary that he would never actually discuss, which is surprising, considering how Gary would talk about

pretty much anything once investigators got him going. Gary said that something happened with sex workers in the Philippines that he never got out of his system, something that was so bad that he said he probably should have gone to counseling for it. But Gary refused to elaborate any further on what actually happened. Probably got the shit kicked out of him by a pimp. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Well, one thing that Gary definitely talked about

was how the Philippines kickstarted his lifelong fetish for inserting foreign objects into vagina. He said this developed from experiences with local Filipino sex workers who would walk up to sailors, reach under the skirts, and pull out pre-inserted beer bottles straight from the vagina. Wow, were they cold? They were very warm. These beer bottles would then be handed over to a potential customer, I suppose, as a way to impress or titillate the American sailors. What did we just learn from the Antel LeVe series? What have we learned about old men recently?

they were disgusting older men and what they liked was actually way grosser than even what we like now. You mean men that... From that time period. There's something about like that being like the stories I heard for my dad when he used to go to hogs and heifers

it was a lot of girls peeing and things. Hogs and heifers. That's the original Coyote Ugly. Yeah. Really? Yeah, that's what it's all based off of. It's just a lot of old play that we weren't You know, there was like panny raids.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, they put up with a lot more. They did. They stopped putting up with stuff. Yeah. I didn't think that's, I think that's what changed.

He said, stop. Stop. Live from your grave. Like a lot of Navy men at the time, Gary caught gonorrhea twice during his time in the service. But he surprisingly didn't place the blame for that on the sex workers. He said they actually treated him well. And they introduced him to the more erotic sexual. practices beyond the vanilla missionary position.

He means doggy style. That's what he became obsessed with. Gary would, however, also later tell his second wife that he developed a hatred for these same Filipino sex workers. So Gary had developed a relationship with sex workers that was, to say the least, messy. He both loved them for giving him pleasure, and he hated them for what that sin represented. But even though Gary was having sex with women in the Philippines who both were and were not sex workers, he had shipped off to the Navy as a married man.

His high school girlfriend, Claudia Craig, had actually agreed to marry Gary before he went off to the Philippines. Mary and Pete Pants, Gary, man. Yeah. It's fucking men or dogs. Unbelievable. You fucking take on that piss-soaked gentleman, and then he's going to go and get covered in fucking gonorrhea and the war.

By the time they got together, he'd cleared up the peepee. The bed waiting stopped when he was about 15 I don't know if it ever leaves your spirit You know what I mean In the in the doc It said that he got gonorrhea and Clamydia and that he resented the sex workers for it And that's kind of like why he started killing people down the road

The doc simplifies it Huge simplification Yeah that's a massive massive simplification Doesn't Clemia untreated make you crazy He was treated Oh okay Yeah because he got treated at the military hospital He went and got

VA. If you catch it, go something, get for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And really, all of these details and true crime, it's really hard to pin down what's real and what's not. Did he get Gunneryta twice? Did he get Gunnery once and Clemedia once? It's from his story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he lies, too. Yeah. Now, Claudia was left back in San Diego, but she was just as unfaithful as Gary. And because both of them were unfaithful, the marriage fell apart less than a year after they got married. Gary branded his wife a whore, even though he had also stepped

out dozens of times, and Gary's hatred towards women grew even more. Now, he had tried a few relationships after returning from the Philippines to Washington State, but after he found that he couldn't make anything last more than a few months, he returned to sex workers, all while his rage towards women continued bubbling in his belly. After Gary received an honorable discharge after 23 months in the Navy, he got a job at a plant called Kenworth Trucking that specialized in the production of medium and heavy-duty commercial trucks, 18-wheelers and such. And there it was discovered that Gary had an affinity for detailing vehicles,

which involved painting the lettering, logos, and stripes that indicate which truck belongs to which company or which trucker. Because this is the age of the trucker. Oh, yeah. Convoid. This is when truckers, they were the ones killing sex workers with impunity, and we should have, you know, like we would celebrate to them by saying, here you go, here's some PTSD.

Kings of the road they were. But Gary did not start off as a master detailer. And whatever Gary did, he always started off making mistakes. But once he got it, he could nail it. The only thing that would trip Gary up is if some part of the process changed. And Gary fucked up so often that he got the long-lasting nickname, wrong way. Because of how many times he would have to repaint an entire truck

after using the wrong color or the wrong kind of paint. Wrong way, Ridgeway. And he did not like the nickname. He did not like being called. Because they would call him wrong way Gary. Yeah, wrong way, Gary. Wrong way, which is replaced, replaced his pants, Gary. And he's just been like, I'm going to burn the old building that.

Like him ground. As far as his reputation at work went, Gary was known as friendly if overbearing. Because what gave people pause was Gary's behavior towards female employees. On many occasions, Gary would approach a female coworker and massage the their shoulders without asking them. And since this was 1972, his behavior was shrugged off as, oh, Gary, he's friendly. He's just a little too friendly, but essentially harmless. I think all the sex working kind of made him weird with ladies.

He might have. Yeah. But even though Gary was a creep, he never had trouble getting wives, much less girlfriends. And he met his next wife, Marsha Winslow, using a tactic that would probably get him pepper spray in this day and age. It's just hard out there for women. Okay? And the bar is extremely low, and it is only just raised about three inches, maybe.

Yeah. Well, in 1972, Marsha Winslow was driving a scenic loop that circled Lake Washington, and a car very suddenly pulled up quickly and closely behind her own. Marsha pulled over, assuming it was a cop that was trying and somehow failing to give her a ticket. Because for being honest, it's not like Gary Ridgeway. He did not... The women that he was with were all... So they were about as smart as he was.

Yeah, I will, I get it. It kind of, it comes up over and over again. You have to be. Yeah, exactly. Because any intelligent woman would just shit him out. Yes, this woman was pulled over by him in a way that is very frightening. Very frightening. In the fact that she's just like, oh.

Okay. I guess I'll see what he wants. But instead, it was Gary Ridgeway, who introduced himself as an interesting. romantic party. I just would say you were speeding back there. Into my romantic inclination. Incredibly, Marcia was charmed by his clean-cut appearance and his military manners. And even though he accidentally called Marcia by his first wife's name the first time

they had sex, Classic. Marsha and Gary quickly moved in together and were married by 1973. Now, while Gary's first wife said that his sexual habits weren't anything special, Gary insisted on anal sex with his second wife, Marcia, and sometimes tied her hands and feet with belts from bathrobes. He started getting into bondage. How did they do it upside out of Indonesia?

Gary also began exploring his fetish for having sex outdoors, usually off hiking trails or campsites. Incidentally, he and Marsha would have sex in many of the same places that Gary would later hide the bodies of his murder victims. Aw. Cute. Eventually, Gary became so fond of having sex doors that he installed silk screened wallpaper featuring forest scenes on the headboard of his bed

so he could still, quote, enjoy the view while having sex indoors. It's like, well, I'm going. If you could just stop moving your head around because I got all these pine cones, putting these pine cones next to your head. On these trips, though, Gary's behavior was also becoming more sinister. He would suddenly disappear into the woods during hikes so he could practice being completely silent to the point where his wife was worried that he wasn't coming back. And then at the height of her fear, as she's wandering around saying, Gary, Gary, where are you?

He'd either jump out from behind a bush and go, ha! Or he'd grab her arm from behind. Later, Marsha would say, quote, He liked to see how softly he could walk so that he could be just totally niseless. And he could do it, too. There's an exclamation point on that. He could do it, because that's the things like, that's not, the voice that I hear is just like, it's a... Yeah, he like to see how softly...

I know you can do it too. You know, he's a little of this snow cat. A lot of people say I sound like a man. I agree. Now, Marcia lasted far longer than Gary's first wife. And by 1975, Marcia had given birth to Gary's first son, Matthew. Where's he at? You know what?

Give him his privacy. Side stories, L-P-O-T-L-G-Mail.com. love to hear from you. I'm guessing wherever he is, he's got a different last name. Yeah. After Matthew's birth. Bidgway. Sorry, continue.

I know we're supposed to give these people their privacy because it is only right. But I'm always so curious where the fuck they're off hiding do. Of course. You know, it's like, you because, I mean, it's got to just destroy you. Most of them are just off trying to live their lives. Every once in a while, you get somebody who wants to come. forward and make it their entire identity like Dennis Raider's daughter

yeah like some but that's fucked up that's very rare most of the time these people change their names like a lot of serial a lot of them in the past like as soon as the guy the husband gets arrested the mother will move

change your name and never speak to them again yeah I would just man if that was my dad I would just make sure I mean I'm already not having kids but like I would just make sure I don't have kids yeah you just snip it off Yeah. Or just do the inside cut. Yeah, kill the but line.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, God. I know. We don't deserve it anymore. I'm actually, there is an interview with Matthew Ridgeway in the news tribune from 2000 fucking, from, it was updated in 2021. Wow. And it's him being like, it's just weird because like my dad never used racial slurs.

He never yelled. He never talked about prostitutes. It was just, I mean, I don't know. He just, he was just trying to. to be a father like you see in the TV shows. Father knows best. Gary knows best. Gary knows best. That's how bored we all were during COVID.

Matthew which way came out of hiding. Talk about his father. Actually, I give you some attention. I didn't you guys notice. I've been twitching home. Well, after Matthew's birth, Gary got far more religious. But rather than following in his mother's Catholic footsteps, Gary joined several Protestant churches,

as if one church wasn't enough. Marcia described Gary as being almost fanatical about religion after the birth of their son. He would read the Bible both at home and at work. She said that tears would fall from Gary's eyes during church services and he'd spend his nights watching TV while clutching his Bible. Gary even started walking door to door in his neighborhood trying to convert his neighbors,

but he would get furious when those neighbors inevitably slam their doors in his face again and again. Is that common, like, people being really religious and also being serial killers? No, not really. They usually are atheists? It depends. Because there's a whole subset. There's the missionary killer.

There's a subset of killer that is entirely religiosity-based. It's all, like, their own fantasy world. So it really depends. Like, largely, it would turn into a new category. He is a guy that would use the Bible for what I'm going to, my, my call, my fucking Sunday morning psychiatrist call is the fact that he used it as like a lot of people use it, which is the possible Hail Mary pass at the end of life. And that he was constantly trying to validate the feelings that he was feeling because

weirdly it all came from this like emotional place. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's very easy with Christianity to come to the conclusion that women are evil because there are many churches that preach that specific thing. And many verses in the Bible that talk about it. The whole story of Adam and Eve. And every single woman that is ever around Jesus Christ is always just tempting him and doing it.

It's almost like they've been putting that idea that women are evil, expendable whores in our brains ever since we started this whole process. Yeah. And the Catholic Church still won't let women be priests. And whenever they want to get more involved, they put them in a habit. stick them in a building. You want to know why? You want to know why?

It's because I'm starting to think it's because women hold people accountable. I think that might be a part of the function. Also, I remember him saying in the doc that he thought that he would be forgiven if he

asked for it. Of course. That's the hell Mary that everyone's talking about. It's, there's always that back pocket. They always got it. Look at David Berkowitz. That's all it is. He's Mr. Jesus now. Yeah. Yeah. When

David Berkowitz and Gary Ridgeway die by by the rules of Christianity both of them are going to heaven them just can be them charlie kirk michael jackson all of our favorites and Connor mcgregor all having a great time the other life there man the gary's main church was pentecostal and his pastor instill who which is bad bad idea for him and his pastor instilled even more archaic views about women beyond the horrible shit his parents had already taught him the pentecostals taught that wives and daughters wouldn't make it to heaven if they didn't obey their husbands. And even something as small as having short hair

or wearing the color red, both of those things, massive sins for women. What if it's our hair? Even worse. Crows out of her. Cut her fucking head off! Cut her sucking head off! Save it.

This, of course, caused a rift in Gary's marriage, just like it had in his parents' marriage, although the male and female roles in Gary's marriage were reversed. But speaking to Gary's mother, Mary Rita soon became the main pressure point in Gary and Marsha's marriage. For some reason, Mary Rita had access to Gary's bank accounts, and she made her opinions known concerning how Gary and Marcia spent their money. People are weird with that shit.

Really weird about it. On weekends, Gary would spend his free time with his mother instead of his wife. But Marcia soon discovered that it was probably for the best if Gary went on these visits alone. One night when Marcia came along, Thomas and Mary Rita got into a fight. And Mary Rita got so worked up that she smashed a plate over her husband's head. Thomas left the room without saying a word, which had become a pretty common reaction from Gary's father throughout Gary's life when his mother got abusive. But by the early to mid-70s, Gary's head was filled with a bunch of Pentecostal bullshit about how women were supposed to act.

And Mary Rita had only become more domineering after she'd been promoted to a manager position at J.C. Penny. You can't fuck with that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it wrong that I'm like, rightfully so? Yeah. Working nine to five. So, the idea of how a woman was supposed to act, as it was presented in Gary's Pentecostal church,

that became mixed with Gary's hatred towards the fair sex, which edged him closer and closer towards serial murder. After Gary got switched to night shifts detailing trucks, and Marcia started taking classes during the day,

the relationship began to dissolve. Marcia then got gastric bypass surgery and lost a lot of weight. So it was a warning sign, fellas. And she used her newfound confidence to start a career as a professional singer, entertaining locals at nearby bars. I just love her life. I love it. Her life is insane.

She's fucking on a great trajectory. I don't like this family, Gary. I'm getting to bypassing and I'm becoming a singer. I'm getting a thing about it, Debbie. Gary, y'all. Always making a big deal about the Bible, but my Bible is the songbook of Liza Manelli. Gary, of course, hated his wife's new lease on life, and he started accusing her of sleeping with other men during her late nights entertaining. This was, of course, projection, because Gary had never stopped seeing sex workers throughout his two marriages, despite what the church might have to say about it.

Because remember, he still thinks that masturbation is one of the worst sins in the world. Things between Marsha and Gary came to a head one night when they returned home from a party where they'd both been drinking. They argued all the way home, but when they pulled into the driveway and Marcia got out of the car, Gary hung back. He then snuck up behind her using his silent technique, and he began choking her, so she couldn't see who was doing it. Marsha actually thought for a second that some stranger was indeed attacking her, but she soon realized what was really happening. See, after Gary let go, he tried dodging around. to the other side of the car, like a fucking little kid trying to get away with something.

Then he emerged, pretending to be shocked that, oh my God, some guy just tried choking you. That's crazy. He wouldn't believe he. I saw me at Biddle eyes and a big dumb mouth. Ringo hair. Mastash. Mastash.

Mastish. Mastish. Morsh, of course, knew that Gary was the perpetrator. But for Gary's part, he said that this was the moment when something vicious and evil had been unleashed. He later admitted that choking her had majorly turned him on. He said, quote,

Well, after that, I wanted to have sex with the prostitute and kill her doing that. Direct quote. And one of the many things it's hard to pin down concerning Gary. This is what I like. You know what I mean? It's so hard.

We go through everybody, so it's like, oh, do what your love, and then you never have to work a day in your life. And actually, what Gary shows is an exact example, when your passion becomes your work, you actually never stop working. Yeah, that's true. Epiphanies aren't always good.

A couple of like eureka moments that have been pretty bad for us. Yeah, really bad. Yeah, the same guy who created leaded gasoline also created CFCs. We could have used two less Eurekas from that guy. You could just see the guy pouring COVID-17 and pouring 18 together in one vial. Now, one of the many things that's hard to pin down concerning Gary Ridgeway is exactly when he began murdering women. He told investigators that it was, quote, very possible that he'd killed several women during the 1970s, but his memories were hazy. The best he could offer was a vague memory of killing a sex worker while he was living with Marsha.

But he could only remember that something went wrong on a so-called date and that he'd probably killed a sex worker during that date. That's just saying this is just how many he killed. Yeah. It's weird. I kind of believe him? Yeah. Oh, 100%. I absolutely believe him.

He's not smart enough to lie. And he's not a Henry Lee Lucas. There is, he brought, he corroborated quite a bit of what he was talking about later on. It's just, you know, it's just hard. When you look at him and you're like, you can't believe how much devastation this little fucking idiot did. But you can also tell that he's also trying to figure out like, what happened? Like he's trying to figure out like, that's why he's talking, he talks so much. And he's just like, he even, it's a, he's a mystery even to him.

And when they do those right, we'll get into it later on, when they do the thing where they drive him around and stuff. And he's just been like, thank you, Mr. Grayson. Mm-hmm. Thank you so much. And he's just like this nice little man. And he's like whistling and stuff. Yeah. Now, according to Marsha, Gary kept coming home later and later throughout the mid to late 70s.

And he'd often walked through the door wet and covered in dirt with no other explanation other that his car had broken down again and again and again. She also noted that Gary always kept several roles of a protective plastic covering called Visc Queen in the bed of his truck. And several of his later victims would of course be found covered in the same variety of plastic wrap. And you know he got that from his detailing job. Yeah, of course. So no fingerprints on that? No, actually. So he must have used gloves?

Yeah. Well, it really depends, dude, because it's like, in terms of the technology, Fingerprint technology is really nowhere near anything that they show on movies and television. It is so, it's such an inexact science and it's so not dependable that like it's so hard to do because you have to, you have to make sure nobody fucks up the scene. Yeah. It has to be pristine. I guess it's all covered in dirt too. Well, also remember, like his victims were usually found two, three days later, sometimes weeks.

Some weeks later, years later, and this is the Pacific Northwest. It's fucking raining all the time. Yeah. You know, so that makes forensic evidence like fingerprints really difficult to lift. Now, investigators tried their damnedest to pin down Gary's first kill. But the best Gary could do was vaguely recall two or three times in which he thought he'd killed a woman. In these incidents in the late 70s, Gary said that he might have strangled women, then left their bodies in the middle of the street, against the fence in a popular park,

or lying against a newsstand where they would definitely have been found. But Ridgeway said that he'd never heard any reports in the media about these women, so he concluded again and again that he had only choked these women until they'd lost consciousness. And after Gary left them, he thought that they'd just woken up and walked away, saying, quote, you'd figure she'd wake up if she wasn't dead. You'd figure. Yeah, you would. If that's a bit, man, which I am, I'd put $10,000.

Then I killed those women. And by 1980, Marcia had finally had enough of Gary Ridgeway. That summer, she told Gary to go out and treat himself to a nice breakfast, alone. And while he thought it was a strange request, he still did what he was told. Simple guy. Simple little guy. Well, simple guy, simple gal. Go get some breakfast.

Can you imagine that? Can you imagine you come home? You know you're in trouble. You mean how much trouble you're in if your wife goes, hey, go get some fucking breakfast. Go off. Get breakfast. Go off. Go get breakfast. Honestly, it'd be a great way to deal with fights.

Yeah. I just keep driving. But when Gary came back home, he found a moving van and driveway and a very surprised Marcia, who she had expected to have all of her shit and all of her son's shit packed up and gone by the time he returned. Didn't you go to the goddamn shonies? I thought you were going to the buffet. No, as a matter of fact, I actually stopped by the... You step by the burger cake.

And it gets a fresh toastings. It was actually pretty fast for me. Pretty quick. Because, you know, Marcia thought that she could get all of her stuff to move out at the time it takes a man to eat a stack of pancakes. Like I said, not the brightest ball either. Yeah. But regardless of Marcia's cognitive abilities,

Gary was extremely upset that Marcia had left. He'd wanted to be a normal family man. And now he'd had his second marriage fail after seven years. And they've also got a five-year-old son together. Gary's anger only grew when he found out he had to pay child support, but the new expense certainly didn't stop him from Dolanop $20 a blowjob to the sex workers he continued picking up around the C-Tac strip. Later, a forensic psychiatrist asked Gary why he wanted to hurt sex workers in the first

place, and Gary lamely offered that it was because women had hurt him, specifically his first two wives had hurt him. Gary, in fact, said that he had thought about killing Marsha because he didn't want to be seen as a loser with two failed marriages. Gary even speculated that if he had just killed Marsha back in 1980, he would only have the murder of one woman on his conscience instead of 50 plus. And he actually used that number. He said 50 plus because by the end of it, Gary himself only had a vague idea of how many women he'd killed. But he said the only reason why he didn't kill Marsha is because he knew he would be the prime suspect, which proved that for Gary Ridgeway, killing was absolutely

a choice. Yeah. So it's weird. He's stupid, but he knows that. You see, well, that's because this is what being stupid, that's like one of the biggest injustices about being stupid. Is that you can be stupid and know you're stupid. And he knows, he's just

smart enough to know how stupid he is and he can't see, it is like a fog. Like he can't see all of the reasons for the decisions that he makes because he works really instinctually and he doesn't have, which shows, again, he should he would have killed marcia if he was going to kill her he would have killed her and i

actually partially think it's the other it's the i kind of thought of my head get this sex should have been free we should be doing this she should be loving me this is like a thing and when i kill her wipes out the whole incident i feel like there's some of that too and then we'll also find it later on he killed them to freeze them in place possibly yeah i mean free to so then he could do whatever he want not all the time but sometimes yeah enough enough You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think with Marsha, the only reason why he would kill her, he would kill her, so no one would find out about the divorce.

Yeah. Because if he killed her, then he's a grieving widower with a young son, and he gets a lot of sympathy from his church, from his peers, from his parents, from everybody. But he knew, he was smart enough to know, like, the husband's always the first person. So, yeah, always a choice for him. Now, not too long after Marsha filed for divorce, Gary was arrested for the first, but certainly not the last time, in relation to prostitution. After cruising for a lady of the night, Gary picked one up and began choking her the same way he choked Marsha.

This woman survived and did report the assault to the police. But guess what happened? The police absolutely questioned Gary, but Gary calmly explained that the choking was a justified act of self-defense because the woman had bitten his penis during oral sex. The charge got dropped. Yeah, yeah, we all know that fucking story. Yeah, buddy, get out of here. Yeah, get out of here.

And the cops had no further questions for Gary Richway. God, cops are great. Damn, that's fucking horrifying. Very bleak. Very bleak. Because, like, even if his case is true, it's still choking a woman. Very bleak. Yeah, it's still choking a woman.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just, and it's... But you forget, Eddie, it's not a woman to them. It's a sex worker, so she's... expendable. Yes. Did he still get arrested for the sex work thing? No.

Not worth it. That's what guys do. When I can't really prove that, they have to catch you in the act. He said she bit his dick. Yeah. That's what guys do, buddy. Yeah. You know how many whores you choke?

Right? You know how much you love doing that. Like inside, she's vomited when you said that. You know how much you love doing it? Some really foul shit, Henry. You don't like that? No, I know what he always. Mike's? After his divorce, Gary discovered a support group called Parents Without Partners,

and he began meeting women that he didn't have to pay to be in his presence. After his divorce was finalized in May of 1981, Gary began dating a woman who is known only as Darla. Darla sounds like she'd be for Gary. Yeah. I mean, well, Darla is for Gary. I would say Darla is for Gary, but Gary's not for Darla. Damn. Just like he'd done with Marcia, Gary quickly moved him. with Darla in her West Seattle home, although she had no idea

what kind of person she was. Darla wasn't really a think-ahead type of gal. No, man, she's a fun lady. She really is. She quickly discovered that Gary was the type who liked sex, wanted it up to three times a day. According to Darla, sex was basically Gary's hobby, and Darla liked sex, too. So that was all right.

As far as personality went, Darla described Gary as gentle, if a bit dim and detached. But Darla pretty much saw Gary is just a fun fling. He liked having sex outdoors Darla was an exhibitionist And since Gary was clean, considerate

And didn't drink much He was surprisingly safe Such a bar's just so low I like Gary because he likes the fuck outside Yeah yeah yeah I hate wolves I like I like getting leaves In my clothes

Yeah Hell yeah That's a branch stepping oh I just squirted Things used to be simpler Yeah But Darla and Gary therefore began exploring their sexuality even more. And Gary reawakened his insertion fetish

by shoving fruit up Darla's vagina while she was tied up. She did say he never hurt her. And the weirdness of it all was actually quite exciting. From my reading, Gary and Darla seemed like the type of couple who would send nude Polaroids

to men's magazines like Gallery for their girl next door spreads. Today they're the type who'd probably upload videos to porn hub under the amateur heading. Nobody knows what gallery is. Nobody knows. only Marcus who collects

hundreds of them. You know, you know your favorite magazine. Okay, gallery, it's better than hustler but not as good as we. I'll say that. As far as information goes, and as far as, you know, you don't love, you don't have

a subscription to Slit magazine? Dead girls, dead girl month. You took it to that place. These are classy magazines. Dead Girl Month. It's all girls are alive last month. But while they were all having a fun, sexy

time, Gary decided in 1981 that he wanted full custody of his son. Yeah, he needs to be a dad. Darla. It's my first thought. Darla, however, already had four kids that were all in the

custody of their respective fathers. She fucks in the woods. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my father of my first was the god pal. Yeah, the green man of folklore. Like I said, you look at these,

like, the pictures that they send in these old magazines is like, what kind of person, what kind of people are these? It's Darla. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Darla, waitress, Pacific Northwest. But she didn't really want to even raise her own kids. Nope. So she certainly didn't want a hand

and raising anyone else's. So Darla broke up with Gary, and Gary got another woman to hate. Soon after, though, Gary bought a house on the aforementioned strip in what is now the city of CETAC between Seattle and Tacoma, Washington. This was the Pacific Highway South, Highway 99 corridor south of Seattle, around CETAC Airport, which was quite the popular spot for sex workers. And so, Gary now had a house that was right next to a location where the sex workers were available in numerous. And if we go by what another of his girlfriend said, the one after Darla, this easy, access was marching Gary closer to murder.

This former girlfriend, whom Gary had also met through the Parents Without Partner Support Group, said that on fucking Christmas Eve, 1981, Gary broke down and told her that he had nearly killed a woman recently. Let's just say, Gary, these confessions are more of a February thing. Okay? Because really, honestly,

I just want to watch White Christmas. I don't want to do this. right now. Mid January at the early I think so. Also, parents without partners is like a good idea but it should clearly be

single moms and single dads in a separate meeting. Yeah, it should be All right guys, you're sad, let's fuck. Yeah, that's all it is. Welcome to mistakes

weekly. Two months later, in February of 1982, Gary told another girlfriend that he'd done something. And while he didn't say what that something was, he did tell his girlfriend to pay close attention to the news in the coming days.

Now, no sex worker murders showed up in the news, but Gary later said that he vaguely remembered murdering a woman at his house around this time and dropping her body off somewhere on Highway 18. The identity of this woman, if she does indeed exist, remains unknown. But Gary was just two months away from his first official victim, whose murder would kick off a vicious two-year-long murder spree and a decades-long investigation. That, of course, is where we'll pick back up next time

for Gary's legendary rampage and a full exploration of the how when it comes to the age of the serial killer. God, it feels so good to be back in the blood. Sure. Like doing true crime, I miss true crime, honestly. Yeah. So, fuck it. Good work, Marcus.

Thank you. Good work, everybody. Good work, Eddie. I don't do much, but watch a documentary. Patreon.com slash podcast and a left. You can listen to these episodes ad-free. You can also see last stream on the left live every Tuesday

5 p.m. PST. Also go to L.P. on the left for all of your social media needs. I am going to stress, you need to go to LPN TV on YouTube. Watch our new HGX2. Yes. By the year, one more person says you know, why don't they promo these on the show? This is the only, I know

it's at the end. We do it at the end because in the beginning it's annoying. Yes. Right? It's a respect for you. We do it at the end. But that's the thing is that you don't listen to the end. But for those of you listening, I love you. Yeah.

Check out at HDX, too. It's fucking great. It really is unbelievable. Everyone fucking put their best foot forward on that way. And we have an announcement coming very, very soon about Bloodbath 77. Yeah. We'll be coming out very, very soon. And then we will also be go check out.

We got new things from no dogs coming out. We got new things from the brighter side. We're coming out. We got new things from Spun. New things from Romantasy. Go and check out all of our various YouTube channels right now. Nerd a Mouth, too, is on YouTube now. Yes, it is.

We got them on camera. We are on camera now. It's a wide lead. And you can really soak it in, soaking them nerd. Soaking our boys. Soak them in. I wish you could be in that room. Oh, man, we got two JK Ultras left.

And most importantly, if you're sad that you missed the freaking tour, we are putting what our last show in Oklahoma City is going to live stream out. So you guys can get tickets to that. Stay tuned for exact instructions on that. But that is going to be shit next week. It's going to happen. I can't wait for everyone to see this show. We've refined it over two years.

Yes. We've been working on this thing. And we're going to put it to bed. And I really want whoever hasn't seen it to see it because it is fucking amazing. Please. So we're going to be in Tulsa, Oklahoma on July 17th. And then we're going to be in Oklahoma City on July 18th. And then I'm solo running over to Plano, Texas, right after that on July 19th.

So come hang out with me. That's where you're going to meet, like, what's his name from no country of old men? You're going to go to. Chigar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to go over to San Angelo for that. Yeah. Plano, you're just basically.

You're in Dallas. Plano is Dallas. I know. I keep saying Plano, but it is Dallas. Yeah, you're in Dallas, and you've got to travel quite far to get to the psychopaths. Yeah. San Angelo, one of those days. Yeah.

We'll get you out there. Thank you. I appreciate it. Also, this next weekend, July 10th, 12th, and 13th, I'm in the tri-state area. Come find me. I'm going to be in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania for a salute to Bethlehem, Newark, New Jersey on the 12th and City Winery in New York City with a bunch of a, I booked some friends of the roundtable for us for you guys.

Oh, fun. That's going to be a lot of fun. That's really nice. Fuck yeah. Bringing them chuckle hudders out of retirement. And I love to hear it. Dust them. bring him up. We'll be back. We'll see you next week. Hail sweet Satan.

Pea pets, Gary. I'm gonna hail. My new cousin, Melody, and Mitchell, who got married right next to the forest where Gary Ridgeway was murdering these people. Yay! May your union be blessed! It's another wonderful connection. Welcome to the family, Melanie. Yeah.