Last Podcast On The Left - Episode 683: Clifford Olsen Part II - Senator Rabbit

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

The boys continue the story of Clifford Olson as “Senator Rabbit” snitches, scams, and charms his way through Canada’s revolving prison doors, taking full advantage of every second chance as his crimes take an increasingly dark turn. For Live Shows, Merch, and More Visit: www.LastPodcastOnTheLeft.comKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Last Podcast on the Left ad-free, plus get Friday episodes a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. We like, we like, we, well, you don't kick Canadian series. No. Oh, he's like, ah, cute. What are you going to do, fucking Probeaver at me?

Oh, great. Oh, you're angry. Oh, no, what are you going to do? You're going to not have second breakfast? Oh, you're so angry. You can't, you're, your pipe weed ran out. Is that your problem, Mr. Canadian? Is that why you're so.

irritable because you can't have your you can't have your big second lunch with the big soup out of a big old gourd filled with like meat and beans and stuff and then you eat and you go I should hope that's enough for everyone and then everyone goes like oh yeah of course our favorite hobby here in Canada sharing

and everybody goes and it's like the biggest problem is the guy finishes the gourd full of soup first and he's got to go to the soup center and get his soup for everybody else in the fucking village. Do we catch all that Rob? Welcome to the last podcast On the left, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. Wow, that was part of the show.

I just thought you were ranting. I was not planning. No, it was not. No, I was just talking about Canadians in America. They get off scot-free. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember them down in South Florida showing up bigger than us. That was very aggravating.

What are he bigger than you? Bigger than us. They're big. They're big. There's nothing down. We, you know, us Floridians, we ain't too tiny. No. That's what I mean.

They come down there. Once February hits. Snowbird season. It's a lot of white. You don't understand. The purlescent skin of a Canadian. No, not at all.

On a clear water beach. All I know is the red, red, red, bird skin of a Texan. They look like, I've never seen the show. But, you know, I've seen those statue things in Doctor Who. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's that color. The Weeping Angels. Yes, their color. It's almost like... Porcelain. Marble. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And they're not nice. Yeah. The traveling ones aren't nice. The ones that stay home in Canada, those are the nice ones. You know what it is is that I think they come to America for like mean tourism. They can come here and to try out be a mean for a while. Especially Florida.

Yeah. And there's always one fat one and one skinny one and they're together. Why is that? Yeah. I don't know why. What is with it? I think one has to wipe the other one's ass. I don't know.

I don't know what it is. I like. I don't know what it is. I like that. Canadian woman has a taste that's very exotic. Yeah, if she's thin, she likes them big. If she's big, she likes them

tiny. I guess it works. Everyone finds a mate. We have two Canadian experts with us, Henry Zabrowski and Ed Larson. I lived there for six old months. I sold them a shit ton of chicken wings. And if you don't know somebody from how they take their chicken wing order

and how they receive a chicken wing order and then how they eat said chicken wings, you don't know them at all. Yeah, no, no, no. Some of them swallow the bones. That's where the good marrow is. You see what you're doing wrong there when you're eating a chicken wing. Is it you're going to want to take a whole bite of the bone

and all? Like you're an ogre from a fairy tale. And we're here speaking of ogre's Clifford Olson, Part 2. So when we last left... Before we get started, I haven't seen an image of him. Is he a big guy, a little guy? He goes about 5, 6, 5, 7.

It's thin. Little guy, dark hair, dark curls. Okay, this is good. Five o'clock shadow. So he's like their, like, night crawler. I wouldn't say thin. I would... I mean, I would put him more, and he actually kind of has a hobbitish look.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He looks like he's never skipped in 11sies. Do you think you could out dig him? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I could. Hell yeah, yeah, no, because, like... Well, but...

He didn't do a heck of a lot of digging, I'll tell you that, yeah. Unfortunately, though, my height does really work against me in my digging endurance. Yeah, he looks quick. I get the back problems because I have to go further down to get to the ground. Yeah, that's why it's better for it. It's hobbit-like behavior. It's good for those of us who are burrowing people, Eastern Europeans. Eddie and I were both built to be subterranean root farmers.

I really feel like he missed his calling. He looks like every stand-up that ever makes it. Let's just say, Eddie, there's a lot of stand-ups that have a lot of similar behavior to Clifford Olson. So it's not too far off. Yeah, you say, yeah, but he used to run an open mic at the grizzly pear. Yeah, he definitely has what I'd call a Delia-esque vibe. Yeah, man, I've fired so many people that look just like him. So am I.

Yeah, he looks like a line cook with a pass. So when we last left Clifford Olson, Canada's dime store joker had been sniffed out by two police dogs named Rinty and Tiger after Clifford and a friend robbed a Safeway for $89 in coins. The Safeway robbery had marked the end of Clifford's latest manic crime spree, his second crime spree in 1964 alone. But this spree was merely one of dozens that Clifford would have bark upon throughout his life. a crime spree. Didn't they say up to the time he was caught, I think I heard a statistic

that he was only out of jail from like 1,700 days of his life. Like, not going to joke. It was, by the time, after he had gotten arrested, um, I think by the time he was like 40, he'd spent half of his life in prison.

Yeah. Like, out of the 23 years, but the 23 years since his first arrest, half of it had been spent in prison. Wow. Good for him. Yeah, someone's got to be in there. Those beds don't, you know, they get sad when they're empty.

Yeah, like in Beauty and the Beast. But since Clifford had committed these crimes after escaping prison for the umpteenth time, Clifford was sentenced to seven years for this particular jaunt. Like most career criminals, though, prison only gave Clifford opportunities to hone his criminal craft, and he honed it with gusto. See, as opposed to a lot of convicts who end up spending half their lives in prison, Clifford was never downtrodden when it came time for a lockup. Clifford was said to be energetic and cheerful throughout every sentence he served

because he always knew that he was either going to charm or break his way out of prison long before he served his full sentence. In fact, I think Clifford Olson learned that having a positive attitude did wonders to further his narcissistic agendas. Because one thing I've noticed about narcissists is that they often use so-called positivity as a smokescreen. If you hear someone say they love everyone, fucking run the other way. He's also the type that, to be honest, it is just, I mean, I'm going to keep going on my leap motif of what Clifford Olson represents within the Canadian true crime world and within the Canadian justice system is a true demonic perversion of their goofiness.

Yes. He has weaponized their goofiness against them. They have never really experienced this before. I really believe this. This is why he was able to walk over everybody. Yeah. Because they're like, oh, no, he reminds me on my cousin Dave. You know, I mean, literally.

It's like, why people vote for fucking trumpet show. They're literally in their heads. They attach a toxic member or somebody to it. And then they're like, oh, he's just like my old buddy. Yeah, I love that guy. Even though that guy's fucked me over tons of times. I still love him. He's funny.

He's funny. He brings coffee to work. Which is awesome about being funny. Yeah, we got such beautiful wives. It's so awesome. Get away with it. fucking everything. But part of the reason why Clifford was able to be positive and live for the moment

was because he rarely, if ever, reflected upon his own past deeds. Alston had no morals or anything resembling a conscience. As a true narcissistic sociopath, Olson believed in nothing, and he only expressed decent emotions when it was expected of him or if it was useful in a larger game of manipulation. But concerning Olson's time in prison, his ability to manipulate people would only take him so far, because while he was great at manipulation, he was often not successful when it came to fully executing his plans to the end. For example, during a stretch in the mid-1960s,

Olson convinced someone from the outside to smuggle a fucking gun into Clifford's prison by taping the weapon to the steering column of the prison doctor's car. But when Olson went out to retrieve the gun, it fell into the floorboard in plain sight and Clifford was caught. Oh, no. What a... Oh! Oh!

No, my pantomime became real. This is all about pantomite. So can't blame a guy for trying. Yeah. Like, he did do... That is how we sort of like... What if I'm the green lantern? What if it's me?

Yeah, he's like an animiniac. Yes. He is. But even though the plan failed, it still showed how many layers Clifford's plans had. Because in order for this to work, Clifford would have also had to manipulate a third person into giving him permission to actually go out to the prison doctor's car to get the gun. There's multiple layers going on here. Clifford Olson probably wanted the gun in prison because he was not what you'd call popular on the inside. See, even though Olson hadn't...

He was having sex with guys, right? Well, he was raping guys. with the help of other guys. But then the thing is, is that when everybody's... Well, sometimes with the help of other guys. That one time he was just joining in. It wasn't really with the help of. It was more just taking advantage of it.

Yeah, he was like the D'Artagnan of the group. Yes, he arrived. But yeah, and then otherwise, yeah, I think he did that. I think that it's honor amongst prison rapists is really... It's not really there. No. I don't think they stick together. I don't think so, no.

Well, even though Olson hadn't ever been convicted of raping children or teenagers, he'd certainly been arrested for it. Child molesters aren't any more popular in Canadian prisons than their American counterparts. Although in Canada, molesters are known as Skinners. We call them short eyes here. Short eyes, chomo's, chicken necks or chicken heads. Chicken hawks. Yeah.

All these things are too cute. Every single one of those is way too cute. We got a little skinner coming. Yeah, the victims are cute. There you go. Thank you. Well, I guess that's the transference then, isn't it? Yes. That's how I see it.

But because Olson was indeed a Skinner, he was under constant threat of attack from inmates who had made it their personal mission to beat and or murder child molesters on the inside. Now, Alston was nothing if not concerned with self-preservation, so he quickly figured out that the best way for him to survive his incredibly frequent stretches in prison was to become the ultimate rat.

Reportedly, Olson ratted out every individual he could for any infraction. This made him even more unpopular amongst prisoners, but it of course did not come without consequence. After Olson ratted on a prisoner during this stretch, the in in inmate took a hammer and smashed it in Olson's skull. Olson, however, said that when he was struck with the hammer, he felt no pain. He said he actually felt nothing at all, adding, quote, It was funny and kind of interesting. Kind of. It was, yeah.

I said, oh, what a fun social experiment. Hit me with a hammer. Oh, wow. I guess I'm a nail. It just really worked for me. Olson also didn't hold the hammer attack against his fellow inmate. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, these things happen. If I was him, I'd hit me with a hammer.

Look at that thing, huh? Oh, wow. Oh, look at that. But the lesson Clifford Olson took from this incident was not that snitches get stitches. Instead, Olson began to think that a hammer would be a great weapon for killing someone. I just got an idea.

The guy broke the light bulb that went off. Well, you thought it'd be the perfect weapon because his own experience had convinced him that it was a humane and painless way to take someone down. That gun's no good. You got to use the hammer.

Yeah. So do you think like he got really hurt or you think the guy like kind of like fucked up and missed him a little bit or something? I think he got, I think he got brained, I think he got knocked out at the very least. But I think he got knocked out to the point where he did not feel the actual blow.

It hurt later, but not when it happened. I actually think, I might be entirely wrong in this, but side stories, L-P-O-T-L-G-Mail.com, but I do believe one of the symptoms of psychopathy is responding less to pain. I think that is one, that

I don't, I might not be, I might be wrong, but I do think that that's a part of it is that he's so doesn't care that it doesn't even matter. It's like what weed, like how weed stops pain where weed doesn't like a, it's not like a, when you do something that's like an, something that's a opium base or whatever that's called. Opio. Yeah, an opiate. When it's not that, like, weed more just makes you not pair that you're in pain. I do know that people who can't feel pain have less fear. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, they have like people who have like conditions, neurological conditions in which they can't feel pain. They just, they just have very little fear, which is strange. I could see him having that. Well, you know, pain is the thing that teaches us fear. The first thing. Fear is the mind killer. That's right. And the hammer too.

Whoa, you're learning for a butt dude. That's dude, you fucking nerd. You fucking big old sticky-ass nerd. Actually, I was quoting the characters with Henry Zabrowski. Thank you. Someone's got to. John G's coming back Yeah just three four more years

They'll be able to come right back in there Their note was more John Jombie They said They wanted more It's Netflix I'm talking to you fucking Netflix Big old fucking daddy You don't be you wanted Jopjee

That was a big note on the script And then all the sudden they pretend like Oh Mr. Ory In a birthday. Banging me for Jom Jop. Although Clifford presented himself as happy in prison, he also worked constantly to get himself out.

He escaped again and again, but was always captured within days, if not hours. When escape didn't work, Olson began constantly applying for parole, but his requests during this stretch were rejected for good reason. One parole session, for example, only lasted 30 seconds because Olson had been caught raping a fellow inmate, just before his hearing began.

I lost track of time. I hate this. You know, I actually need to be... I think a big thing here is that no one wants to acknowledge how I have undiagnosed ADHD. Yeah, we got to make this quick, buddy. I have ADHD. Thing is, you give me an appointment for three.

I'm not going to be able to do anything all day long because I'm going to be waiting for the appointment at three. Time blindness. Seeing that the parole board was a bust, Olson started writing letters to politicians and celebrities, enthusiastically lobbying for himself regarding leniency and sentencing or support in his next parole hearing. I don't even know which Canadian celebrities he wrote to.

That's an acroid for sure. It is 1962. So did Canada have celebrities in 64? 64? There was Johnny Snow's, the guy that he was famous for Roland, a giant, just barrel places. Oh, yeah. There was that one dog

that was governor. I do believe, yeah, and then the oilers. Yeah, yeah, and the guess who? Very good. Wow. That is an obscure fucking poll, Eddie. Very good. That's why you're here.

Well, his correspondence with politicians earned him a second nickname, Senator. And when that nickname was combined with the one he'd earned for his many escape attempts, he was indeed dubbed Senator Rabbit. Again, it's far too cute. Like, nah, Jeffrey Dahmer's

his street name. In prison, we call him the President of Chocolate. Well, he's the closest one we know in the chocolate industry. So it does make sense. Plus, he has sex with men.

With black men. We all know he prefers black men to double entendre. It's a little, you know, it's not politically correct, I admit. But he's the first. President of Chocolate. What do you want?

What do you want for me? In 1971, a prison psychologist finally got his hands on Clifford Olson. And his read on Senator Rabbit was just about perfect. The psychologist wrote that Clifford was, quote, an active, loosely controlled little man who presents himself in a polite yet almost manic manner with emotional development that rages between that

of a three-year-old child to a 12-year-old. Get out of my five. fucking report cards. Well, yeah, holy shit, that does describe you. But I'm a pro-social. An active, loosely controlled little man.

I'm a pro-social, Clifford Olson. And he doesn't own a hammer. It is true. No, no, no, no. Well, this psychologist, however, still recommended that Clifford Olson be paroled.

Although the psychologist did state that it would probably be a good idea if the parole officer met with Olson every single day, as opposed to once a week. Meetings always curb a serial murderer and rapist. Yeah. It's always a meeting.

That's stopped of dead to track. As you could see from him raping the guy right before his parole here. He's super good with schedules. You know where a great place to meet him every single day is prison. Yeah. Because you know exactly where he is. He's where you left him. For what this shows is that Clifford Olson had that rare yet incredibly dangerous superpower

that's held by some narcissists. See, even though Clifford's flaws were on full display, his charm made people want to help him in any way they could. If I could compare Clifford Olson to anyone, I would compare him to the most famous narcissistic murderer America has ever seen. That American, of course, is O.J. Simpson, who was also very fond of saying that he loved everybody. I love everybody, man. He does. He didn't have any enemies, except for that one woman, that one waiter. Yeah. That was it. It was just two enemies.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I fucking hate when people kill waiters. Yeah, it takes long enough to get my waters. It's all about the mess. It's all about his belly. Well, me and Caroline had just rewatched the six-part OJ doc made in America, which is fucking incredible. We just rewatched it this week after seeing the documentary about OJ's prank show, Juiced, which was also really fucking good.

Hell yeah, man, I'm two episodes in. It's a blast. How amazing it is. Oh, as a Florida guy, I would imagine. Oh, yeah, yeah. I can't believe I wasn't like there, like, writing for him. You were very close, and it was very close. I just missed it.

I mean, I know it was all shot in L.A. and Vegas, but it just has a Florida flavor throughout. But I couldn't help but be reminded of Clifford Olson over and over again when people talked about O.J. And when O.J. would speak himself, when he would defend himself. Like, I just kept hearing Clifford Olson every fucking time. And I think O.J. specific abilities attach to American ideals, just like Clifford Olson's attached to Canadian ideals. Very much so. Like, they're both incredibly socially intelligent men.

Because we love the idea of O.J. Simpson in America. We loved O.J. Simpson. Everyone loved him. Yes. Unbelievable. I mean, they could gone alone. Yeah. I mean, people would say over and over again, even after OJ's murder and civil trials,

that despite any preconceived notions they might have had about O.J. You couldn't help but like him after you were in his presence. And it would take a short amount of time for you to be like, OJ, you're great. You're awesome. Have you seen that clip of him on the Wendy Williams show? Like she starts off being like, oh man, like I don't know, OJ, starts up not being nice to him.

And at the end of it, she's like, you should come to a party at my house. Like, you're great. OJ, you got me. If you look at, I remember when we were staying at that hotel that turned about, be one of OJ Simpson's like big haunts and you look through the Instagram of that account it was endless pictures of OJ with smiling blonde women

grabbing their waist it looks like hanging out all night and you're like he just can somehow just turn it on once you get into his presence and he's one on especially he's one on one with you it's done that's why you have to keep these kinds of guys at a fucking arms

distance always he's such a friendly face yeah and that also that really helps and that's what they said Clifford Olson too. They said he was handsome. In a Canadian way. In a Canadian way. It looks like my dog nanny. Oh, yeah. He does look like that. Yeah, he actually does. But concerning O.J., people would say

that they wouldn't necessarily forget that he was a double murderer when they were talking to him. But O.J. could easily disarm almost anyone he came across. Like, people would think, like, yeah, he's a double murderer. But he's not going to double murder me. It's impossible. Yeah. You know, I thought his wife.

He's like, he was angry. They started like making excuses. All of a sudden, you're making excuses for him. Totally. By the end of the conversation, people would say they'd have to thinking that O.J. was actually the victim in all of this. Quite unfortunately, Clifford Olson had that exact same talent in spades. And he would use it to commit absolutely horrific crimes every single time he found himself outside the prison walls.

never had a stretch of good behavior. Never, never, ever, ever. Also different versus Clifford Olson versus other serial killers we've ever covered. And the fact that his criminal activity never stopped even one. He wasn't murdering and raping. He also, he was running scams. He was doing all. He just never stopped.

It's like H.H. Holmes. Yeah. The most, I think, it seems like from what I read, the most he made it was like a week once. Yeah. Man, there wasn't a crime. He did every crime, it seems like. Every crime. Every crime.

Every crime. He was addicted to crime. Yeah. Live from your blade. A concerning Clifford's charm, he used the psychologist report to get paroled from his seven-year sentence 38 months early. And this was despite the fact that he'd escaped prison multiple times and have proven to be a habitual criminal both in and out of prison.

I just got to say officially, yes, I'm ADHD, but also, I'm a little stinker. He said, I've got a little stinker disease. You know, in Canada, little stig, you can actually get disability for being a little stink. I'm knocking over paint buckets. I'm stealing apples. It's just crazy for me out here. Now, we're going to let you out 38 months early, but don't think that we're not going to miss you.

Don't worry, I'll come back for the talent show. I'll come back for the Christmas party. I'd be like I never left. But even though Clifford's parole officer naively believe that he could be rehabilitated, even went so far as to get him a job in construction, Olson immediately returned to a life of crime upon his release. In fact, he missed several daily parole appointments before his first week out of prison was even over. No way. And so his parole officer recommended revoking Clifford's parole after seeing for himself that Clifford simply could not function as a productive

member of society. Olson, meanwhile, was soon arrested for stealing rare coins and passing bad checks, so revoking his parole was sort of a moot point anyway. He was also in the middle of a scheme that it involved him ordering and stealing 50 pairs of women's underwear and 30 bras. But he was arrested before his plans for the undergarments could come to fruition. We therefore have no fucking clue what he planned to do with all that women's wear. I'm going to sew them all together to dress the Canadian-Canada's biggest woman. He's probably another scam.

He's just selling stuff. to sell the all weird fucking dumb shit. Anything that came across his plate, he took a swing at it it seems like. Always. And so, Clifford was sent back to prison at the age of 33. He had now spent half his life behind bars. But even though he

proved himself to be an incorrigible criminal, he was paroled again in April of 1973 and sent to a halfway house. Clifford, however, didn't like the halfway house set up, so he charmed his way into being allowed to live with his sister Sharon. Sharon agreed, but only under the condition,

and she said this to him explicitly that he not molest her children. Absolutely. I can't even imagine why you'd think I could even think of doing something like that. That's the one thing I will not do. Which room is there? I just got to know. So if I know if they're sleeping,

is it like a long pause between their breaths? I just want to know. I have ADHD. I don't know. I just want to know which room they're in, so I know which one you're not go into. Clifford, of course, broke his promise to not molest his sister's kids. Immediately.

I have ADHD. I just, I forgot that you told me. Because, you know, with ADHD, I got a lot of memory problems. Hold on a lack of permanence. You said not to? I thought you should. to do. I heard, I didn't, I missed the knot.

I thought you said make sure to not miss molested my children. Well, within a few months, he left Sharon's house to embark on one of his many cross-Canadian crime sprees, except Clifford was now including teenage accomplices. This would become a frequent pattern with Clifford. He'd pick up a teenage girl or boy off the street, charmed them into thinking he was a good guy who had it all figured out, then whisked them away for crime sprees, while care of carrying on illegal and immoral sexual relationships with said teenagers. Clifford Olson would sometimes even put together tiny three-person gangs,

like he did in the summer of 1973. After getting kicked out of his sister's place, Clifford picked up a 14-year-old boy named Glenn, and the two of them quickly began a sexual relationship. The two of them then approached a 19-year-old named Evelyn Gagnon at a bus stop in Saskatoon. Just something about Saskatoon is just... Well, it's just these... It's Evelyn Gagnon from Sassantan.

It just, it sounds like I'm just making shit up. It does. And after offering her a ride, which soon turned into a meal, Evelyn found herself in a motel room with Clifford and Glenn. Clifford, however, was using an alias. Evelyn knew him at first as Ronnie Thomas, which is somehow both a fantastic and horrible assumed name all at the same time. It really is, and I don't know why.

It's because it sounds fake, but it's distracting. It's Rob Thomas's brother. Yeah, yeah, that's what. That's what I was trying to think. I was like, what does that remind me of? I was like, Boon-No-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-A-N-N-A-N-N-A-N-N-A-RON. Ronald Thomas.

Yeah, people call me Ronnie. People know me best. Hmm, Ronnie Thomas. Hi, Ronnie Thomas. Nice to meet you. It works great. Yeah, Ronald Thomas. It sort of has the same cadence as my name.

Ronald Thomas, Marcus Parks. You know, it's got that same sort of thing. It works great for you. Now, while the story of Clifford, Glenn, and Evelyn does not end in murder, it is extremely illustrative in showing that while Clifford Olson was a master at controlling people, he learned these skills little by little. Every encounter, however, is darker than the one that came before until it finally does end in murder.

But nevertheless, the evolution of Clifford Olson as a controller is fucking fascinating. And very important to pay attention to. He is a developing predator. It is a thing that you see a lot. I think that we're seeing a lot of it right now. And again, I just want to mind... These are warnings. These are like, I'm saying all this is like warning signs to be like, look out for this shit.

The key is like, I don't know who all listens to our show. Just remember if anybody 30 or over is talking to you and you are under the age of 18, that person is a fucking loser. Yeah. Well, okay, not just you can talk to them. Yeah, but if they're trying to- fucking you. Oh, that's what I mean. Oh, God.

Yes, yeah. They're trying to fuck you. They are a loser. Yes, they're an absolute loser. People their age don't want to fuck them. Yes. Yes, exactly. So after picking up Evelyn, Clifford had her and Glenn spend three days in a motel with him before they all went out on the road together.

Clifford, of course, was having a sexual relationship with both of his companions throughout his latest cross-country crime spree. But notice that I said companions and not accomplices. I actually sort of misspoke earlier when I said accomplices. So while Evelyn suspected that Olson was committing theft everywhere they went, he'd disappear for hours, then return with wads of cash without explanation, Evelyn didn't question Clifford because she was fucking dazzled by Olson's charisma.

Olson was very good at impressing teenagers, and he told these kids that he owned race horses, he owned apartment buildings, he was a big shot. But eventually, I suppose Olson got bored with his little trio.

He put Glenn on a train to Toronto and Evelyn went to stay with a boyfriend in Vancouver. Now, Olson must have regretted this decision because he soon went back to Toronto to get Glenn. Where did I put that, Glenn.

But Glenn had told his caretakers would have been going on between him and Clifford. So the police were waiting to arrest Clifford for sodomizing a 14-year-old upon Clifford's arrival in Toronto. For once, the cops were ready for Olson, and they caught him when he tried the rabbit routine. But incredibly, Clifford's own mother bailed him out of jail for the sodomy charge, and Olson was free to continue his 1973 spree. This would become another common pattern. Olson would be arrested for sexual assault or molestation, but would somehow avoid conviction every single time. In fact, he avoided trials while he was in prison for the murders. This is how incredible it is.

Clifford would actually threaten to sue journalists who called him a sex criminal because he was never technically convicted for sex crimes, even though he was convicted as a serial killer. Yeah, I'm struggling because during this time period and, like, you know, we see this. We saw this when we were covering Jimmy Saville. We covered. There is like, it really can't be said enough how not seriously police took crimes against children and against women for a very, very, very long time. Still. I mean, yeah, that's kind of like the saddest part. Is it reverting?

We're just going back. But it's just this idea of like, because they wanted so much evidence for it to be real. And mainly it's just because, again, how many times we've talked about it? is that it's because it was icky. Yeah. And I don't think they want to deal with it. And then no one, and then can, a lot of, especially in this system, they straight up just don't want to believe that an adult would purposely predate and fuck children. They have this idea of like, well, people don't do that.

Yeah, it's too much. You know? That stuff may happen down in America, but in, down in the States. He don't happen here. Not in Canada. Yeah. And I think is what, his mother, rather, was, you know, she was oddly okay with the sodomy charge because, you know, it's in the Bible. Well, yeah, but that's another one.

You missed the knock part. So after making bail, Olson gave up on Glenn and drove to Vancouver to pick up his other teenage companion, Evelyn Gagnan, so he could continue his criminal tour across Canada with a little company. Olson would commit a crime and say, Edmonton, while Evelyn waited in a hotel room. And although Clifford would never tell her what he was doing, he would routinely return saying, we got to go right fucking now. And they'd be off to Victoria or Calgary. By November, though, Evelyn and Clifford decided to take arrest with Evelyn's grandmother in Winnipeg,

and Clifford apparently got along with the grandmother like a house on fire. See, Olson was extremely talented at getting the elderly to trust him with lightning speed, but this was only because the elderly, and specifically elderly women, were reliable scam targets for Clifford Olson. One of Olson's favorite scams with the elderly involved finding apartment buildings that were populated mostly by old people. And after looking at the building directory, Clifford would pick a name, say, Catherine Gustafson, an apartment 3G. And Clifford would then

go to a different old lady's apartment and knock on the door. When the mark answered, Clifford would say he was Mrs. Gustafsson's grandson. Like, oh, you know, Catherine, she's over in 3G, I'm just visiting. The only thing Clifford needed from this old lady was changed for her 20, which very innocent. Yeah, sure. Once the old lady agreed and invited

Clifford inside, he'd ask for a glass of water. And when the left the room to get the water, Olson would rifle through the old lady's purse and steal everything he could stuff into his pockets. Because that's the thing. In order to give change for the 20, you got to bring out the purse. So he had her actually bring her purse to him. And if no one was home, Clifford would just break into the apartment and search the place for rainy day funds because he'd learn the most likely places where an old Canadian might hide their money. For some reason it was usually hidden in jars. And Olson stole many and elderly Canadians nest egg by sniffing

out these money jars. You know what the first thing that hits me is that because it's such low-level crimes for such little money that this is actually connected to murder and rape, that this is about violation. It's about getting into somebody's apartment. Very much so. Yes, he's saying to himself, this is for money, but it's really about lying, gaining access to the inside. Because how many serial colors are peeping thoms? They do Bayes and A's. It's Canadian for breaking and entering. Oh, Bison A's.

Bays and A's. Yeah, and once you get in there, he case the joint. You come back later and do something else horrible. But he didn't even do that. He was building up, this is all the stuff that was building up the froth. Yeah, it's all very manic. It's just going from one place to the next to the next to the next. And it really is.

It's all about power and control and him looking at the world as his playground. Like he looks at the world. Like he seriously looks at it like we would, you know, going into a GTA game, going in a Grand Theft Auto game and saying like, okay, I'm going to play evil. Yeah. And he, that's how he lived his life. Do you think, like, did he assault the elderly too? No.

No. Just stealing from that. Just stealing, yeah. As far as I know, it was just stealing. When it came to assault, he saved that for young women, young boys, and children. So Olson's friendship with Evelyn's grandmother. Thanks, Marcus. Just answering questions.

I mean, he also assaulted men in prison. Yes, he assaulted men in prison as well. Everett. The completion of. So Olson's friendship with Evelyn's grandmother ended when Olson stole $2,700 of the grandmother's money. And this is, that's $2,700 in 1964 money. Yeah, 2700 Loonies is like 35 pounds. Now, Evelyn had no idea that Clifford had done this,

but when she spoke to her mother after she and Clifford left Winnipeg, Evelyn was told of the theft, and she was told that everyone was pretty sure Clifford was the thief. Now, after getting this information, Evelyn found herself faced with an extraordinary internal conflict, and this was all due to Clifford's advanced skills. skills as a narcissistic manipulator. The way Evelyn talked about her struggle with this information, it sounds very similar to the struggle OJ Simpson's friends went through after he was charged with the

murders of Ron and Nicole. See, Evelyn couldn't believe that Clifford had done such a horrible thing because even though she'd seen signs that he might be a criminal, Clifford had manipulated and charmed her into thinking that he was a good guy who was just misunderstood. good. Evelyn, therefore, did not want to believe the accusations. And she wasn't alone in this. Nobody who got close to Clifford ever wanted to believe Clifford was a bad guy, but this was by Clifford's own design. He knew that people wanted to believe the best in him, and he took advantage of that hope at every fucking turn. Clifford's future wife put it best when she said that Clifford had a magnetism that everyone felt, but his charisma was especially potent with

women and children. Even animals were naturally drawn to Clifford. Clifford's future wife added, and when people who knew Clifford in the 60s and 70s spoke about him, even after he was convicted of the brutal murders of 11 underage kids, they almost always started smiling and remembering what she called the funny things. They not only didn't talk about the murders, they didn't mention or even think about the thefts, the rapes, or the abuse that they themselves suffered at his hands. Instead, they remembered the hangouts, the jokes, the personality. And this, Clifford's wife said, was what was truly frightening about Clifford Olson. He's like an evil cartoon character. Yeah, yeah, he very much is. Kind of all sounds like hanging out at the store.

Now, the other aspect of Evelyn's relationship with Clifford is that Evelyn Gagnon had experienced the sudden changes in demeanor that narcissists used to control people. So while she did want to believed the best in Clifford, she was also absolutely fucking terrified of him. People who were close with O.J. Simpson described the same dichotomy, saying that OJ could turn on you with break-neck speed if you said something that challenged him or made him angry. And that's a feature. That's like a thing that he did. That's how he holds power. Oh yeah. Well, this is narcissism one-on-one. One minute, he was O.J. Friendly, loving, generous, best friend you could ever have. But if you said the wrong thing, it would take less than a second for OJ to turn from the most affable person on earth

into the very embodiment of rage. And then just as quickly, that rage would turn off and he would suddenly be OJ again. By this point, you'd be so grateful that the rage was gone that you would be the one apologizing to him. This, as I said, is narcissism 101. And Clifford Olson would use those exact same tactics to keep the people close to him in line and constantly off balance. So he could get away with it, whatever the fuck you want it.

Because they can't hold the two. They can't hold goofy Clifford and serial killer Clifford in their brains at once. No, we're just not fucking built for that. Humans aren't built to hold that. And it's one or the other. And being so off balance all the time, it's fucking impossible. That's right. I'm going to throw a fucking grenade at him.

Blow him up. Yeah, the hammer only made him worse. Yeah, hammer gave him ideas. Now, even though Evelyn was scared to question Clifford, she finally confronted him about robbing her grandmother while the two of them were riding a bus to the next Canadian city. But when Evelyn honestly asked Clifford if he had anything to do with the missing money, Olson pulled out another trusty play from the narcissist handbook

by acting wounded. He asked, quote, How can you even think such a thing? Would I, Clifford Olson, of Edmonton and Toronto, Vancouver, Canada's Clifford Olson, what I do that? But because Evelyn was even asking questions, Olson knew that his narcissistic spells were losing their power.

Clifford, however, had not yet come to see murder as a way to solve his problems. There's still about eight years away from that. So he instead simply chose to leave her before she could leave him. After trying to make her feel like she was the bad person here, he got off at the next bus stop and never saw it. Evelyn again. The spell, however, was indeed broken, and Evelyn soon told the RCMP everything she knew about Clifford Olson. By January of 1974, Clifford was arrested again and convicted on eight counts of theft, fraud, and for forgery. But there were no convictions for sexual

assault, despite the fact that Clifford had raped multiple minors during this particular stretch of freedom. Do you think there was just like, that's too hard to convict, we could definitely get him on this other shit type of deal? Always. Literally, it's always, it's always this idea of like, they don't want to take any of that seriously. They don't take the children's words seriously. They don't take any, you know. Well, it's also the, you know, there's also the fact that sexual assault victims are very reticent to testify. You know, the kid, Glenn, the 14-year-old, yeah, they just don't want to go out in public and say those things.

These things happen to them. It's traumatic. It's traumatic. It's horrific. Now, once Clifford was sent back to prison, his reputation as a snitch made life, dangerous amongst other prisoners. During a prison poker game, for example, Olson got into a fight with some fellow inmates

and was stabbed in the back twice with a pair of scissors. Now, was the scissors open? They were close. Otherwise, that would be four puncture ones. Okay, I just want to make sure I know what's going on here. But instead of taking his lumps, Olson spilled the beans on everything he knew, not just about illicit gambling within the prison,

but any and all drug deals that he'd been privy to. Then he got his attackers charged with attempted murder. According to the RCMP, they couldn't remember an inmate who'd done so much snitching all at once. And that's how we knew we were doing our job right. We were really inspiring them to do what's right, which is snit, snitch, snitch all day long,

like a little fucking evil horror. Snitch, snitch, snitch. phrase in that snitching that was over and over again was and I'll tell you another another thing. And that reminds me. Therefore

Heard. Olson also used the stabbings to his every advantage. He weaseled $3,500 out of something called the Saskatchewan Criminal Injuries Compensation Board. It's a fucking Canadian. The board's chairman even declared

Clifford Olson's conduct as above reproach, adding that Olson's squeals had indicated an unusual degree of moral and physical courage. I always found prison snitches to always be bastions.

Gravery and power of this wonderful come to up. Oh, I love them. Well, those statements were of course used in Clifford's future parole hearings to once again obtain early release. You know, I hate America's prison system. Of course. But I feel like we would have stopped him.

At some point, we've been like, all right, somebody just stab him to death. That's what I keep saying. There's a middle ground to be found here. There's definitely a middle ground to be found between America's over incarceration and over-policing and Canada's like... Giving this guy

money. The prison system just giving him money. What do you think we ought to give him? Three grand? Yeah. Make it $3,500. Actually, yeah, that's really generous. Getting some walking around money, you know? But interestingly, Clifford's snitch spree did achieve its intended purpose. Other inmates saw that messing with Olson was extremely risky because Olson was now under protection of the biggest gang of all, the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. My theory is that this is what he was trying to do the whole time.

Yeah. He was just trying to get the police on his side. And so Olson figured out that his snitch relationship with the RCMP was the most valuable. valuable relationship in his life. So he started going above and beyond to solidify that relationship. Eventually, Clifford Olson actually played a key role in helping the RCMP in obtaining a legitimate murder conviction. See, after the poker game stabbing, Clifford had been put into protective custody. So he found himself in a cell next to another protected man named Gary Marcoe. Marko was a known Skinner because he'd already been sentenced to prison.

for raping his 18-year-old sister and attempting to rape his 2-year-old sister. The thing as no one wants to hear is I feel like I should be celebrated for just keeping it in the family. You know, I just... It was just right there. It's local crimes. Yeah, local crimes are better, are they?

Yeah, keeping it local. I kept my footprint, my pollution footprint, very small. Oh, your carbon footprint smaller. My carbon footprint smaller. Right here in the living room. Yeah, in fact, my carbon footprint was even, I even wiped it off before I came in the house. While Marquot was out on parole for those crimes, it was alleged that he had raped and murdered a nine-year-old girl named Jean Duve. Because the last time Dove had been seen alive, she was with Gary Marcoe.

But even so, the prosecution's case was weak, too weak to guarantee a conviction. And so, all on his own accord, nobody asked him to do this. Clifford Olson saw an opportunity to be useful and an opportunity to bring him closer to the RCMP. He and Marquot had actually met back in 1961, so the two sex offenders became fast friends in protective custody. Before long, Olson had gotten Marco to go into detail about what he'd done to Jean Duve. And Olson was taking detailed notes the entire time. So, yeah, first things first, you know, I pender arms in the back. What are you doing in there?

Nothing? What else did you do to do with? Fascinating. Is it a comically big pencil? Just because you have the same interest in someone, you can't trust them. You're right, Eddie. That's very true. Just because they also like Led Zeppelin, it doesn't mean that they're your friend.

But I honestly feel like it's closer to being your friend if it's Led Zeppelin and not pedophilia. I feel like if pedophilia is which is joining you all together, that's definitely not great. but I do think that Scrabble can bring a group together in a way that's like nice. Yeah. You're both making good points. Thank you. Now, Clifford Olson discovered that by the time he got to his prison cell, Gary Mouko had convinced himself that he hadn't actually murdered this child.

Gary Marcoe claimed that while, yes, he had kidnapped her, and he had tied her to a tree, and he had raped her, she had actually strangled herself to death accidentally. While he was cleaning up the car, he'd used in the abduction. Fight a nickel. He did, however, admit to masturbating on the body after she was dead, because at that point, you know, why not? I'm here.

I guess. There wasn't enough evidence before. Yeah. And a little bit of me on there. Now, as soon as Olson got the confession, he sent his notes to the Attorney General and swore an affidavit that the notes were legit. And using Olson's notes, the state was able to bring. a far stronger murder case against Gary Marcoe.

Gary, however, didn't know that Clifford Olson was the star witness in his trial until Clifford showed up in court to testify for the crown against Gary, which I'm sure broke Gary's little child murder and heart. Bad boys, bad boys, what you're gonna do? What you're gonna do when they come for you? It's me, I got you.

You know when Clifford walked in, Gary's like, God damn it, I told him ever. That's the worst guy to be in him. And he pinky swore to me to he wouldn't tell nobody else. Well, actually, we can use that pinky swear in Canadian court. That does hold up as a contract in this wonderful land. Objection, my client, Pinky swore with the testifier that he wouldn't say. So you can strike it.

I don't even know why we're having this trial. All right, Mr. Marco, here's your 3,500 Canadian dollars. and we'll see you on your way. Have a nice time in Vancouver. Oh, by the way, just so you know, my niece is visited. You should take her out to lunch. Take her to the park. Now, the crown might not have gotten the conviction without Clifford Olson.

So Olson made sure that any and all authority figures he came across knew that he had done them a favor. As a result, Clifford again got early parole. But after his time with Gary Marcoe, it seems like some of him. something changed. It's like a switch had been flicked on in Clifford's head. Perhaps Gary Marcos' accounts of raping and murdering a little girl had gotten Clifford Olson excited, or perhaps it had given him ideas that he had not yet entertained. But either way, when Clifford Olson was released once again in 1977, after Gary's conviction, Clifford's so-called Adventures took on a far, far darker tone. I think that he had it in the back of his mind.

as a thing he wanted to do. And he think that he was talking. Even a thing that he could do. Yes. I think he was toying with it. And I think that what he realized was that the more I help them convict other child molesters and murderers, the more I can do it myself. Oh, of course. That's another thing with the narcissist fucking playbook is that it's about.

Projection. Well, no, it's about banking. It's about banking and setting up other people. for when you need them. You know, it's like that fucking elephant's graveyard thing. Like, you know, that guy that was on, Rogan's like,

yeah, you know, when they come for you, when you get canceled, you want that somebody on your side, you know, when it happens to you. And it's like, no, you're saying that because you know it's going to happen to you. Most people don't need that. Yeah, you should just not let it happen to you.

You should just not do it. By being a good person. Exactly. But that's really difficult, Eddie. All when he was grabbing, grab and grab and grabbing, scum and grab. No,

While prison had given Clifford the idea to use a hammer as a humane method of murder, it had also given him the main tool he would use not just as a serial rapist, but as a serial killer who focused on underage teenagers. See, Clifford had insomnia, so the prison infirmary gave him a strong sedative named chloral hydrate to help him sleep. Clifford soon discovered that mixing chloral hydrate pills with alcohol caused a person to pass out hard and fast. Noted. Well, we already knew this. We knew this because Jeffrey Dahmer had used a mixture of halcyon pills and beer to subdue his victims.

But while Dahmer, at the very least, felt guilt over his murders and used the drugs to get through the act of murder so he could obtain his ultimate goal of a dead body, Clifford Olson was gleeful in his use of chloral hydrate. Effectively, chlorohydrate turned people into living unconscious sex dolls who could be easily disposed of, once Clifford Olson was done with them. Clifford Olson was so glib about his actions that he even had a nickname for his combo of pills and booze. Because chloral hydrate pills were green, Clifford referred to the combination of chloral hydrate and alcohol

as the green machine. Which, you know, it... It doesn't make sense. Machine, like, do you expect to be powerful? It's a Canadian. It's a Canadian thing. But that's the thing. Canadians are really fucking funny.

They are. They're very funny and very clever. But the one thing I will say about honestly, this is just one, and again, I do love Canada. I love Canadian. They're bad at naming things. Yeah, Winnipeg. Yeah, dude, not the towns. It's more like the things.

Do you want to go to Banff? Like, there's places that you go to with, like, you know, like, I forgot there was like a place called like, like, like, Blinkies. And they have like stuff like that's like it's bad names for restaurants. The comedy club's called Yuck Yuck Yucks. Yeah. That's fucking aggregate. By the way, I'm available. Yeah, please book it.

Now, about two weeks after Clifford Olson was released from prison in 1977, he was giving a friend of his a ride to a town west of Vancouver when the two guys came across a 23-year-old woman named Debbie. Debbie would be picked up just like Evelyn, but perhaps due to the influence of Gary Marco, Debbie's misadventures with Clifford would turn into a harrowing ordeal that would absolutely destroy Debbie for years to come. So after Clifford dropped off his friend, he gave Debbie beers, spiked with chloral hydrate pills.

And after checking into a hotel, Clifford raped her while she was still unconscious. Debbie was younger than she looked and could easily pass for 10 years younger. So Clifford actually thought he was raping a 13-year-old. But even though Clifford was actually disappointed that Debbie was not underage, he kept her around for another cross-Canadian crime spree, but things with Debbie got a hell of a lot darker. than they ever did with Evelyn. And, you know, when I say, I wouldn't say kept her around.

I would say more kidnapped, abducted, and forced her to come with him. Yeah, she was his hostage. While Evelyn was subjected to a pure charm offensive, Debbie was kept drugged out using chloral hydrate and LSD. She was full acid this whole fucking time. The drugs combined with Clifford's charm and his constantly shifting moods kept Debbie incredibly disoriented and constantly off balance. Debbie said that Clifford quickly became brutal and demanding.

He would jump from topic to topic at random while shifting between moods at an erratic pace. And when his demeanor changed, so would his face and his voice. She said that Olson acted like a man possessed, barely in control. So Debbie was constantly alternating between states of terror and bewilderment. When she resisted any sexual advance, he would get rough, slap her around, and eventually get his way through rape regardless. So Debbie came to feel totally helpless, believing that her only defense was total submission.

This incredibly all happened within days of meeting Clifford Olson. You know what it reminds me of, and it makes me sad that it reminds me of that? What's that? Christina Ricci in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like the big fuckers, huh?

Yeah, yeah. You like the big fuckers. It reminds the hell of me of that. Now I'm sad. Now I'm sad. Good work. Good work. Debbie did try to make a break for it, but Clifford told her that he would have her and her entire family

killed by the mafia if she ever tried escaping again. That's a Gacy tactic. Oh, yeah, Gacy was doing that with the kids back in Iowa before he even went to prison for, you know, raping those kids. But true to narcissistic form, Debbie said that Olson would threaten her family with moderate, Retribution one minute, then the very next turn on the charm, saying something like, so, if you like Chinese tonight, how about some noodles?

Does that sound good? You know, it's just back and forth, back and forth. And you know, I could kill your family at any moment, but, you know, wanton soup's my favorite. What about you? I will say, I would take some wanton soup in the time period if we're asking. You know what I mean, I know everything's bad, all that stuff is bad, but if we are asking. It's a pimp shit. Yeah, it is.

Eventually, Debbie came to expect. these wild swings and demeanor. One time, Clifford ordered Debbie to take a bath, but once he soaked her up, he urinated on her and scrubbed her down with tub water that was now half piss. Then the next day, he'd be charming again. He'd vow to help her out of any bad situation she ever got into, which, of course, implied, heavily implied, that her current situation with Clifford was not a bad one. It was actually a good one. It implied things could get a lot fucking worse.

Yeah, and if you like bathing and piss, this is a place to be. Yeah, you're right, Eddie. Yes, if you're a Canadian woman looking to be covered in piss, besides just being Rob Ford's assistant, this is another thing you could do.

After weeks of this, in which Debbie spent most of her time drugged by chloral hydrate and LSD against her will, Clifford Olson decided to introduce Debbie to his sister Sharon and her kids. That's too soon. This is the big crime. Yeah.

This is the same sister who had made Clifford promise to not molest her kids. A promise Clifford broke. But such was both the charm and the terror of Clifford Olson. Tellingly, Sharon took Debbie aside

one night during this visit and told her that she should not go out with Clifford because Clifford was a dangerous man. Isn't he current? visiting you? Yeah. Yeah, and I don't want him here, but still, he's here.

It tells you everything you need to know. Sharon seemingly didn't know the full extent of the situation when she said that, but I'm sure she figured it out when Clifford got angry at Debbie one night and raped her with Sharon right there in the fucking room. But instead of going to the cops, Clifford's sister Sharon instead took Debbie to a doctor the next day, while Olson said he had to go out for, quote, an appointment at the bank. Oh, man, he must be horrible at the back. I hate the back. Let's not talk about the back.

The doctor, however, quite unhelpfully, just prescribed tranquilizers, which was the last thing Debbie needed at this point. All I'm hearing is a lot of, yep, yep, yep, yep, what I need from you is a lot more. Are you sure you wouldn't feel a lot better if you didn't just shut the fuck up and stop bothering me? How do I didn't think of that? Take these fall asleep or I'm going to zap your brain. You want that? You want that? Well, when Olson returned from his so-called appointment at the bank,

he had purchased or stolen a video camera, which he used to record Debbie in compromising situations. This, as it goes with any serial killer who ever owned a fucking camera, has led to speculation that Olson was involved in pornography and may have made and sold snuff films. There is, however, no evidence that he ever videotaped any of his murders, much less any evidence that he contacted a distributor to sell videos depicting his horrific crimes. And there really is none. There's none.

There's no evidence that he hid the tapes. There's no evidence that there was tapes. No, no, no, no. I mean, it's different when you're talking about, you know, what's the R.C. Borrmeister. Her barma'emite. Yeah, that's evidence that he may have been involved in snuff films. And, yeah, the hoarse thing as well, that's different.

But what the horse thing is showing us is that, like, you kind of actually have to be in pornography already to get that stuff out there. Of course. Yeah. Of course. That's how, like, when you look at CSAM material, the way that's shared, it's a lot of it's shared in WhatsApp and, like, group things that you get invited to. And then kind of what they do is they'll sandwich bad stuff. I don't like the term that I just used. Sandwich?

Yeah. I don't know if sandwich is a good term for it, like a compliment sandwich, but with child porn. Mm-hmm. So I think that if you go into it, like, because I like all sandwiches. But not that same. Yeah, yeah. I've never ordered that sandwich. Never got to order them.

No. I don't even know how to order that sandwich. It's on your day. It's not in public. It's not as much. Yeah. But yeah, I feel like. Unfortunately, it is Jimmy Johns.

They have, but it's like, that's what they do. So it's like, you'll get, yeah, you got your C-Sam that you want. But a lot of it will also have veciality and, like, stuff like that, all buried in within it. Yeah. Now, while you might again say Sharon should have gone to the cops, she was obviously terrified of what her brother might do to her and her kids. She was fucked up. She didn't know what the fuck to do. She didn't know what to do. She didn't know what to do. Yeah. Well, I mean, the thing is, she did do what she could. She tried to help Debbie by contacting a social worker agency on Debbie's behalf. But the social worker agency did have like the worst fucking name. It was called the burden bearers. Oh. I was like, hey, I got a burden here. I really need somebody to bear this.

I don't like the burden bearers. Everything doesn't need a cute name. It does help people. Well, it's not even a cute name. It's an insulting name. It's like, if you're going here, it's like, you know what, I got a burden. I can't bear it. I need you to bear this burden for me.

Well, welcome to burden bearers. We bear burdens better than anybody's bear burdens ever for. We're bearing burdens more than anybody's ever bear burdens. And bear burdens is one of our favorite things we do. If you got a burden, if you got a burden, I like to have it. I'd like to bear that burden. I don't think anyone who works there was like told someone who gets raped all the time. I'll take this one.

Yeah. You know, like that never fucking happened. You're not a burden bearer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, I've been bearing a burden for about three months now, so let me go get my burden out of the car. Gary! This is my burden. Gary, he's a burden. I need you to bear it.

Gary, you know you're a burden. Come here, Gary. Take off your clothes. This is what we mean by barren burden. You have you being naked. Now that we know that Gary's the problem, Gary's now the naked problem. This agency arranged for Debbie to stay with a German immigrant couple named Gunter and Giselle Kleinschmidt. And although the Kleinschmits did have somewhat good intentions, their gullibility at times bordered on criminal negligence.

It just sounds like two people that live in a giant wooden shoe. Hello, Gunter Kleinsmith here. You know, after. whole war war, two, Krafel, we realized we can't trust any of those German guys. So we're going to Canada where everyone's trustworthy. It's never going to be an issue

at all. Ever. See, the Kleinschmits were hardcore Christians, and since mistrust and hatred towards women is hardwired into fundamentalist Christianity, not all Christianity, but definitely fundamentalist Christianity, Gunter and Gazella were easily

and quickly seduced by Clifford Olson's charm. Almost immediately, they saw Debbie as the troublesome, sinful liar, while Clifford Olson was seen as the one to trust. Clifford and Debbie very quickly began going to church with the Kleinschmits once Debbie was put into their care, and Clifford knew how to put on a pious performance. Debbie, however, was still being drugged,

and the LSD was starting to loosen her grip on reality. Reportedly, she started screaming during church services one day that she was hearing voices from God telling her that she was in the company of Satan. The Kleinschmits, of course, did not entertain the thought that maybe when Debbie was screaming about Satan, she was actually screaming about Clifford Olson.

You know, he was wearing horns and had a little tail on, and they turned around, he took them off real fast. They didn't leave my costumes in a car. Now, while Clifford continued playing the pious and concerned boyfriend, he got a job as a construction worker, but mostly made his money burgling houses.

Debbie, however, one day snapped out of her trance, quite suddenly, while hanging out with Clifford's sister Sharon at their local mall. Perhaps the drugs finally wore off enough for Debbie to take some agency because after she ditched Sharon, she hitched her ride with a trucker, who was thankfully a good dude. That was a rule of the day. I know we've got a lot of trucker listeners and you're great, but man, you know those guys you share that fucking lot with.

No, I've got a lot of messages from truckers talking about all the shady shit that happened. So it makes, you know, we know what's going on. Debbie made her way to her mother's place in Calgary. Debbie later said that for the first time since meeting Clifford Olson, she relaxed. Incredibly, this entire saga had occurred over a period of six weeks. That's it. Debbie, however, was stuck in a state of permanent terror after her ordeal with Clifford. She was soon committed to a mental institution.

But after four years of treatment, she emerged to face Clifford by actually helping the Crown's case when they were trying to convict him on murder charges. And just for some reason, I could just see them doing it in such a fucked up Canadian way of them like dollying her in and the Hannibal Lecter fucking like on the dolly with the straight jacket on. No, no, no, this was a moment of like strength and like coming back and like fuck you, Clifford. No, no, no. It wasn't an SCTV scene. sketch. Thank God. But also, they were the best at comedy.

They were. TV's probably the best sketch comedy that's ever been made. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I'll put that

opinion right dead in the center of our Clifford Olson series. I'd say at the very least the funniest cast ever assembled. Oh, yeah. Now, Olson was...

With a remissing. Clifford Olds. He was right out of the street. If he had just taking this energy and put it toward Second City, T.O. The worst decision

they ever made He was cutting Glenn from the roster. Can't believe it. It was in him. Eugene Levy. Andrea Martin, hanging out. John Candy. John Candy.

He would have not liked him. No, he wouldn't. Now, Alson wasn't punished in any way whatsoever for his crimes against Debbie. In fact, because she ran away, Clifford stayed in the good graces of Gunther and Gisela Kleinschman. We are so glad to be a gradient of that little girl because she was ruining the vibe. We love you. love you, Cliff. See, the Kleinschmits were nothing but tools to be added to Clifford's good but misunderstood

Arsenal because Clifford used his relationship with these fundamentalists when he was caught violating his parole once again. In pleading his case, Clifford claimed to have become a born-again Christian who was enrolled in both religious courses and Bible schools. Wow, it's like it's part of a playbook that happens all the time. It's like a thing that every person who's ever accused of many crimes does. It's an easy escape hatch. The Kleinschmits vouched for him because despite his troubles with the law,

they wanted to believe that Clifford was earnestly trying to become a good Christian. It's all about like numbers for God. It's all about like, see, it works. The system works. It's all works. We got him. Oh, yeah. While in prison this time, Clifford spoke of the Kleinschmits as his best friends,

and his fake friendship earned him early parole yet again. In turn, the Kleinschmits truly believed that they were God's chosen instrument in bringing Clifford into the Christian flock. Because it also makes them feel very special. Of course. Look at what we've turned around, what we've done, what God's power. Look at what God's power can do. Yes, he continues to do crimes, yes. Yeah.

But it's because of the power of God. Look how sad it makes him. Can you see me frown? Oh, you're smiling, though. No, it's just my frown. Yeah. And, you know, he commits crimes all week long, and yeah, they're really awful. But every Sunday, he puts at least $2 in that collection place.

I said, I'm sorry to a statue. It's real. It's very real. And so when Olson was released again in January of 1978, he left under the Kleinschmidt's supervision. And as long as Olson went to church every Sunday, the Kleinschmidt asked no questions about what Olson did with the other six days of his week. And what science about a church is that's not known for any sort of crimes against children? No. No church ever.

It's a good place separate from a bunch of kids that are sitting there and their Sunday best. Just waiting. Super vulnerable. Yeah. Believe it in a fake thing. Already believe it in a fake thing, you know? Yeah, yeah. But many opportunities to get them alone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely. Under the guise of big, you know, within the church and the power of it. Yeah. Church really is the best place to put a guy like Clifford Olson. Yeah, man. Put them there all the time.

Live from Northbury. Well, after just a couple of weeks of church life, Olson dropped his Christian facade and began skipping both work and meetings with his parole officer. I have ADHD. Clifford then returned to sex crimes, which were only escalating in their depravity. But even though he was getting caught, he was not going to prison for these atrocities. Olson, for example, raped a young boy soon after he stopped pretending to be a Christian. But while he was caught and beaten by, I assume, the boy's family for the rape,

no police report was made. Not too long after, Olson was also caught luring an intellectually disabled little girl to a motel. But thankfully, the girl's brother followed Olson and also beat the shit out of them before Olson could go through with his nefarious plan. See, street justice is fun, but it doesn't always work. No, it really doesn't. Because the thing is that he, as far as he was concerned, he goes. got away with it.

He knows how to take a beating. Yeah, we know he likes pain. He enjoyed getting hit in the hammer with a hammer. Yeah, he does not care. He does not care. But even though Clifford had tried taking advantage of arguably the most vulnerable type of person in existence, no charges were filed for the incident at the motel. So Clifford fully plunged himself back into a life of crime.

He picked up and raped hitchhikers using his so-called green machine. He stole from senior citizens and ran scam after scam. But it seems like Clifford was actually getting better at avoiding arrest or even detection, because no police reports from this time period named him specifically in any of the crimes he committed. Now, that's not to say there was an incompetence or laziness involved. He remained free even after being arrested and charged with robbery and kidnapping during this particular stretch of freedom. In fact, he was able to make it to the end of his mandatory probation check-in period. So by 1978, Olson was free to travel.

anywhere he wanted. But lest you think that Clifford Olson got away with all of this because he was committing all his crimes in Canada, it is time for us to now come down off of our high horse, because it could be argued that he was actually more successful as a criminal when he embarked on his own little tour of the United States in the spring of 1978. Yeah, well, you know, that's the thing. A lot of Canadians come down to America to get good. And according to those things, we take all of them. You got your cynical Nathan Fields. We got your kids in the hall. We got them all.

We took them. We stuck them, Katie Perry. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Gave her back. Oh, yeah. Gave her fucking back. We were done with her. Gave her back.

No, they come here and, yeah, we ruin them. Yeah. Well, no, we sharpen them. Yeah. Jim Carrey's perfectly mentally healthy. He's great. He's great. Starting in New York City, Olson scammed and defrauded his way across the country in the summer of

1960. But this shows you how good of a con man Olson really was. Because New York City in 1978, I mean, I'm not telling anyone anything new here when I say it was fucking rough. Yeah. But Olson managed to earn $5,000 committing scams just in New York City. Can I say, you know why? You know why I actually think that honestly it was a breeze for him? Because of the reaction your nephew got during your reaction, when your nephew.

Yeah, when Kellyn, when my husband. Mine nephew, Callum, went to New York City for our wedding. Oh, my God. Marcus has got a very, he's got a young guy. He's 21, right? He's just like just turned to. No, yeah, I think he was, I think he was like 22, 23. But yeah, somewhere around there.

Cowboy hat. Cowboy hat. Literally young man, broad shoulder, just the cowboy hot, literally just going like, ma'am, made the Brooklyn, like the most cool Brooklyn ladies fall apart. Yeah. I have never seen a reaction of a group of women to that to one singular man before in my life. He was dancing and they surrounded him in a circle like they were all like with like they were

they were all choosing lionesses. Yeah. That rehearsal dinner was full of puddles. That was why. So I can see him with his Canadian goofball stick. It's disarming. He arrives and he's just so like, oh, you know me, I am just a bumpkin up from Eddington. And, like, they're all probably like, yeah, fuck this fucking guy.

Yeah, this guy's fucking hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. Just cute. Give a money. Fuck this guy. I normally, a guy like you, I'd fucking shoot him in the head. But you, let's go get some pizza.

I love you. I, ma, ma, it's just Maria. Name my cousin Maria. Oh, no. Kellen, like, he closed down the turkey's nest. Yes. Like, he walked in there, he fucking, but he was doing it very good naturedly. He was wonderful.

Yeah, he was great. And he left with nobody. He didn't do anything. But Clifford Olson saw that and he knew how to turn that shit on its head immediately. It's the whole disarming thing. And that's the thing. Using his charm, Olson's crime spree stretched from Youngstown, Ohio to Gary, Indiana, from Houston, Texas, all the way down to Florida. Wow.

He committed rent scams and purse snatches. He'd impersonate bank tellers and convince people to just hand him their money. He'd pose it as an investor and then runoff. with people's life savings. Years later, Olson would even claim that he committed several murders in four American states during this jaunt. But personally, I don't think Olson committed his first murder until 1980. Olson did, however, claim that he had personally met and made friends with the Green River

killer while he was in America. According to Olson, those murders were actually the work of his friend, Ronnie. Which is interesting because Ronnie Thomas was his pseudonym, which is like his fake name when he started on his crime stuff. It's almost like he's blaming himself. Almost, but we do know it was Gary. Yeah, oh, it was Gary. Yeah, it was Gary.

We also know Gary was real bad at making friends. Gary was bad. He really was not the charmer, was he? But that's where Clifford comes in. Yeah, it's true. Now, while no cop in the United States came close to busting Clifford Olson during his summer spree of 1978,

the RCMP were waiting for him when he crossed the border back into Alberta in September. His Vancouver warrants had finally caught up with him. But because Clifford Olson was apparently born with a fucking horseshoe stuck up his ass, he served far less time than he should have for his 1978 crimes. Because of a bookkeeping mistake, it was on record that Olson was in Canadian prison while he was going Hogwild in America.

Olson, therefore, actually got credit for time served. And as a result, he only spent a year in prison. this time around. They're bad at it. They're just bad at it. You know, I was going to bring up a little mistake with the calendar, but actually, no, I'm good. I'm good. No, that's right, yeah.

That's right. That's right. I was learning. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was where I was on a softball team. Totally rehabbed. Rehabed out to us. But after being released in February 1980,

Clifford Olson traveled to the town of Coquitlam outside of Vancouver, Eagle-eared listeners might remember Coquitlam as the home of serial killer Robert Picton, although as far as we know, the two men never crossed paths. They were different vibes, different scenes. Very much so. But in either Coquitlam or Vancouver, it's unclear, Olson met the woman who would become yet another poor soul in the long, sad parade of serial killer spouses that we've covered on this show.

Her name was Joan Berryman. But out of all the wives who were tortured and abused by their serial killer husband, Husbands, Joan may have gotten it the worst. She's up there, definitely. And the main reason why I told the stories of Evelyn and Debbie's experiences and having a so-called relationship with Clifford Olson is because I think both of those stories are key to understanding Clifford's dynamic with Joan Barryman.

Because if you just start with Joan, it doesn't make any fucking sense at all. See, with both Evelyn and Debbie, Clifford Olson learned new techniques in manipulation, and control each time, and his skills were at their absolute peak by the time he met Joan at the age of 40. It also helped that Joan was hopelessly naive, and Clifford used her inexperience to convince her that his way of living was normal. For example, the relationship, incredible as it may sound, it actually began with rape. Olson met Joan at a bar one night, and after drugging her, he took her to a hotel room.

She woke up not remembering anything, but she was absolutely horrified because she knew something had happened. See, Joan was in the middle of a divorce when she met Clifford, but her first marriage had ended after 21 years. And she hadn't even slept with anyone besides her husband. But Clifford knew exactly what to do and what to say to make her feel better. And within four days of meeting her, Clifford had convinced Joan, to let him move in with her. Jesus Christ. Just be single for a little bit.

Take a moment. Take a moment. Take a breath. Now when Joan was later questioned by police, they found her to be, in their words, curiously unworldly. Fucking. I don't even know what that means.

She just being like, she was stupid as fuck. She could barely read. She had a head full of cheese. No, I would say, curiously, I wouldn't say it's, it's actually, it's a nice way of saying, like, how can you, how can you be this age and not know what oral sex is? My mom pretended to not know what a blowjob was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

It's not out of personal experience, but we were at a dinner. We were literally at dinner and the turb came up. And it was a really awkward thing because it was like we were all visiting from home. And then my mom was like, what's the blow job? And we all sat in silence. We just sat in silence and we're just like, we're just. Yeah, but that's just, that's one of your mother's things of like trying to just make things really uncomfortable. Well, she pretended, yeah.

She knew what a blue job was, I think. So who explained it to her? Hopefully my father did. Don't actually didn't know. Like, she was, she really did not know. She spent 21 years, I think just spent 21 years as a housewife. Yeah. never left the house and was just very, very, very naive, extremely naive.

And also was not, she just, unfortunately, some people just aren't that bright. And Joan just was not that bright. But he knew, but that's a part of why he flipped it into the cover relationship. Yeah. You know what I mean? We're like, she just wasn't like, she just wasn't another rape of his. Yeah. She was like, he was like, oh, yes.

I can use her. Yeah. Very easy to control. Because she was so naive, Olson was able to. quickly integrate himself into her life by endlessly flattering her and making her feel loved. Olson, therefore, had no problem taking over Joan's life, and after finding her to be unusually pliable, he began involving her in his sex crimes. He convinced her to rent hotel rooms for so-called parties, but these parties were only attended by Clifford, Joan, and teenagers that Clifford had

picked up from the street. Paul Bernardo. Shades of Paul Bernardo. Definitely. Sometimes it was just plain chill. children that Clifford brought back. But no matter their age, Clifford would convince Joan to pose nude with these kids before Clifford raped the kids in the very same hotel room. The only explanation I can figure out for this, because they say how naive she is, how curiously unworldly she is, the only explanation I can find is that Clifford had somehow convinced Joan that all of this was normal, but just outside of Joan's experience. Like this is how, you know, this is how things are. in 1978 in 1980.

You know, it's the 80s. Come on, get with it, Joan. You know, she also could have been in a dead marriage, in a dead bed, in a whole thing. And the reason why now that he's love bombing her and giving her physical affection and doing an apparing physical affection with this and love all wrapped together, I think that it creates a fake version of it. Exactly. Like, this is a, this is what we do.

This is kinky stuff. Like this is fun, kinky stuff Not crime No, it's not crime No, this is what You just, Joan, you just haven't heard about it This is normal They've been doing this since the Roman times, Joan

They have Even fucking idiots know not to get naked with children No, it depends on how much convincing I don't know, Eddie I don't know, you know You know But no matter how he managed it

Joan soon fell in love With Clifford Olson Now Clifford decided to reconnect With the Kleinschmets after meeting Joan, because the Germans had proved to be useful in the past. You don't want to let that tool get rusty. Gisela, however, had finally started to figure out that maybe this Clifford guy wasn't really a Christian. Tellingly, she began forbidding Clifford from spending any time alone with her daughter or any children at all.

But even though she wouldn't leave him alone with their kids, the Kleinschmits still went on fucking vacation with Clifford and Joan. We didn't bring the kids! That's how it used to be back in the fucking 80s. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. No, he's one of my best friends. Wouldn't leave him alone with my son. Yeah, we had a guy like that.

Yeah, but it's like you just get, people just accepted it as normal. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a molester. To be honest, I think it's because of how often a lot of these people that generation got fucking molested and were told it was not a big deal. Like, you know, my mom's favorite statement. It was like, when they molested me,

no one took me to an amusement park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. drops getting molested is so like yeah we will all molested it's a part of what you do you know what it is it's almost like um how they treat like you know don't pet a strange dog or like you know that dog bites so you know like don't don't go around that dog because that dog bites it's like that's how they treat their molesting friends yeah it's fucking insane yeah yeah he'll get you if you get too close to him he'll get at you now all these people went skiing together and clifford had of course told everyone that he was an expert skier.

But when he finally got on the slopes, he wore no gloves, his stomach was hanging out of the fucking t-shirt he was wearing, and his ski boots were on the wrong feet. I have ADHD. Gisela said watching Clifford Ski was the most peculiar,

comical thing she had ever seen. You could just see all the music and him going through the kids. Like he goes down the black diamond He's a shooting past it into the kids Slopes I mean just lying about skiing is one thing But you should still know

What foot the shoe goes on Yeah that's At the bare minimum He wears shoes every day Cartoon character I have executive dysfunction This of course Was one of the last encounters

The Klein Schmitts would ever have With Clifford Olson Apparently him lying about skiing That's just a bridge too far That is a German mortal sin. You cannot do it. You know what I think it was, though?

I think with all of the other lies that he told, there was a lot of he said, she said, involved in it. And I think when they saw how much he had built himself up to be this expert skier, and then they saw like, oh, he doesn't even know which foot the boots go on, they finally realized, like, oh, I think he's been lying about everything. It's just so bizarre that he is such a good liar, and he chose this lie. Yeah. Well, this shows the pathological nature of it.

He shows his true psychopathy. He is living in a fantasy world 24-7. Yeah. And it shows the narcissism, too, because I would not be surprised if he was thinking in his head, like, how hard can it be? Like, yeah, I'm me. Yeah, it's not hard to ski. I'm going to get out there and I'm going to show him everything. Like, I don't have to know anything about this.

I'm just going to know. Clifford Olson, the world's expert at. Everything. Yeah. Now, as it had been with Debbie and Evelyn, Olson used his shifting moods to keep Joan constantly on edge. But Joan was also desperate to do anything to keep Olson happy. And this also might go some way towards explaining her participation in crimes.

His rage with Joan was soon paired with violence, hitting and slapping, and it was escalating at a rapid pace. For example, when Joan expressed the tiniest bit of displeasure towards Clifford for bringing drugged teenagers of all gingers into their home so he could rape them. She'd just say, like, I don't like that, Clifford. He threatened her with a knife, threatened to kill her with a knife. But the next day, he'd turn the charm back on and apologize profusely. Then you would talk her into having sex with him.

Since Olson had been running scams and committing robbery from the moment he'd last been released from prison, his parole was revoked yet again. As far as how the cops got him this time, it was a combination of hubris and dunders. dumb luck. See, the Canadian government was shutting down the old British Columbia Penitentiary and it briefly opened the facility to the public. Clifford had done time there,

so he took Joan and his mother on a tour of the prison to show them his old jail cells. Oh my God. That makes me, that is just wild. To just be like, yeah, we raped him over there. And over there. And over there is where at first time I had

Salisbury steak. Over years where I won these. first ever egg race in a surrepteen race well Clifford Olson waxed nostologically about the stretch he'd done at BCP a guard who was still on duty recognized

Clifford Olson and after checking to see if Olson had any outstanding warrants the guard arrested Olson then and there just you bring your girlfriend your mother to see your old prison as just that is literally a trailer park boys this is a plot line

That is a plot line out of trailer park points. It is. I want to bring Julie to Tallahassee one day to show her around. But you might be like, this is where I... But then you'd be like, this is where I sold weed. Yeah, yeah. Sold weed over here. Yeah.

Well, I guess it's very similar. Now, this is just another short stint in jail lasting only a few weeks. But Joan had already accepted that this life with Clifford, this was her new life. In fact, she said that she was happy to have Clifford back. after his release. It kind of sounds like Joan was just one of those people who was pathologically afraid of being alone in any way whatsoever. Codependent. But such was the power of Clifford's aforementioned magnetism.

And no one was more affected by Clifford's powers than Joan. She stuck with him for the time being, even after he immediately returned to a life committing both sex crimes and theft upon his release. See, the thing about Clifford Olson is that even though he did, he did. did get caught a lot. He made a lot of money when he was on the outside, which I'm sure helped keep people around. It was said that Clifford, and everyone said this, gave people $20 tips without even thinking. And this is, you know, 70s. Yeah, he lost his money as soon as he made it.

He was wildly psychopathic. Well, it was not even that he lost it as soon as he made it. It was that he had certain scams that gave him an almost endless supply of money, at least living at the level that he was living at. Also, tipping people really big helps them help you cover up your crime. Of course. Everybody's happy that you're making money. You're sharing money. You know what? That's funny.

Yeah, narcissists, uh, big tippers. Yeah. Huge tippers. Well, I like, I'm a big tipper, but I also believe the idea of, well, you can't just believe every single transaction is transactional. Well, there's a difference between being a big tipper and being an obscenely large tipper. Well, I'm not trying to get something on everybody, but most of the time, the time

I'm tipping you, I'm hammered. That's the problem. Really? I got a question. He doesn't seem like he got fucked up that much. No. No. He was pretty sober?

Yeah, no. I mean, he drank like a Canadian drinks. Yeah. Like, yeah, I would say he drank. So he's blind drunk all the time? I do legitimately believe he, it was, he was quite in control. Yeah. He knew what to do.

Like, he knew if he drank too much, he wouldn't be able to pull this shit all. Totally. Totally. I believe that. Like, not necessarily on the level of, like, Manson, you know, where. everybody around him is completely fucked up out of it and he's totally boned sober yeah he's having a couple beers but the person people he's trying to take advantage of they're having a lot of beers and they're also having a lot of beers that he's drugged with roofies yeah but as far as clifford's

and his money went his most profitable scam was a refund return scheme that he called rehashing and this is a trick he allegedly learned at the age of seven while he rehashed to great effect at all sorts of stores, one of his most reliable targets was record shops. You bastard! The scam would go like this. Olsen would browse around the store and select two copies each of a dozen records. But while he would take one stack of the dozen to the register, he would hide the duplicates to those dozen records throughout the store.

And he had an incredible memory, so he remembered where he hid each and every one. After paying for the dozen, he would take the. records out to his car and then come back in with his receipt. He would then retrieve the duplicates he had hidden and use his receipt to get a full refund, saying he had changed his mind. And then he would make even more money by selling the stolen records at half price on the street, said no one ever once question him when doing this. Now, the records didn't make him a ton of money, but he made real cash when he figured out how to do this same type of scam with construction, equipment and particularly VCRs.

Because in the late 70s, VCR sold for thousands of dollars. The modern equivalent of about, like a VCR cost the modern equivalent of about $5,000 or $6,000 in the late 1970s. I remember. But since most of these stores didn't even know they were robbed until they did inventory months later, Olson was more or less impossible to catch when he rehashed. And he estimated he made around 5,000. $1,000 a day in today's money with this con.

Damn! Yeah. But while he could have been set making rehashing his one and only con, he didn't have to do everything else. Clifford Olson was addicted to the thrill of crime and the power that it gave him over other people. So he paired rehashing with several more scams on the elderly and any other vulnerable person he could find, even though there was no need for it.

He just liked doing horrible shit. Yeah. Well, he just didn't like working. Yeah. That's for certain. No, he didn't like working, but he also, that's the thing. Rehashing $5,000 a day. It's enough.

It's more than enough. He's fine. There was a scam that some of the guys did in my school. I never did this one, but I was always very impressed by it. There was a friend of ours that was like a cash register person at the Best Buy. And what they would do is they'd get a CD tower and fill it with CDs and then put it back in the buy. and then sell the CD tower and then you'd walk out, you'd have a bunch

of CDs, and then that person would sell the CDs at school. That's a good one. That's a real good one. This is why you don't let teenagers run your entire fucking store. This is another example. That's one of those. A little by little, Joan was beginning to realize that maybe Clifford wasn't such

a great guy after all. But by July of 1980, Joan was unfortunately pregnant. But while the pregnancy did extend the relationship by a few more months, it wasn't enough to keep Joan from finally leaving Clifford. Ironically, though, Joan left Clifford only after he had finally completed all his parole requirements. Technically, Clifford Olson had a clean slate, and by September of 1980, he was legally and officially a free man. This was one of the few times that this had been the case,

since Clifford had been arrested for the first time, 23 years earlier. But even though Clifford was now free to do whatever, Joan left Clifford in November of 1980 using a dear John letter. She called out Clifford for being a drunk who liked having sex with boys, and she told him to not bother looking for him, specifically saying that she was not at her mother's house. I'm not there, so don't you even think of looking for me there. Olson was, of course, enraged, and as it often happens with serial killers, this loss of control over his own life led to a series of events that ended with Clifford Olson committing his first of 11 murders. So after reading the Dear John letter, Olson bought a case of beer, a bottle of

vodka, and a carton of orange juice. He then rented a car and went out looking for someone young. And it was at this moment that he came across a 12-year-old girl named Christine Weller out riding her bike. Olson lured her into his car by offering her a beer, and once she climbed in and left her behind, Olson offered her a job, washing windows at his construction company. Now, Olson did technically own a construction company, but the entire thing was just another scam. It was all on paper. He'd actually started it with Jones' brother so he could defraud other construction companies with various schemes. But it also served to make

Clifford Olson appear as a legit person. Because if you can't trust a contractor, who can you really trust in this world? Of all the jobs in the world, yes, contractor, the most dependable, trustworthy man and woman, the whole world. How do they always get the price right

right at the top? They always know exactly how long it's going to take. They're easy to get a hold of. They show up for work. every time. When they say it'll take two days, it takes two days.

Clifford had even made up business cards for his company. So he handed one to Christine at this very moment to bolster his story. He told her that he already had a bunch of girls working for him. It's a cool scene working for

Clifford Olson. These girls, they just smoke weed all day long while they're washing the windows. I don't care. I smoke weed too. I'm cool. Yeah, you 12-year-old girl. Yeah. That's so funny.

In America, we kidnap kids with candy. Yeah. Yeah, this is literally, I'm trying to think of a, like, not to be. Hey, stop there. Jumping that rope. I got a beer. I'm not trying to remotely victim blame, but it takes a Canadian little girl to be into a Molson's from a car.

There's something about that of just being like, oh, yeah, I'll take a couple of sons. I mean, it's not even Canada. At 12, you wouldn't get me into a car with candy, but you would have got me into a car with a beer. I was at 12, I was already drinking. Well, you were a Texas boy. Yeah. You would have got me in there with a promise of a shot on Broadway. But the beer, I think, I don't, actually, I don't know if it's a Canada thing or a Texas thing.

I think it's just a 80s, 90s thing. Yeah, maybe. I was scared of all that shit till 16. No, no, no. But the beers that Clifford had been giving to Christine were, of course, spiked with chloral hydrate pills. And when Christine started drifting off, Clifford gave her. more pills. He told her that the pills actually countered the effects of alcohol. He called him wake up pills, and he even pretended to take a couple himself to show her it was safe.

Christine, of course, passed out after they drove around for hours on in, because Clifford was looking for the perfect spot to rape this 12-year-old in seclusion. He had not, as far as we know, decided to murder her at this point. Finally, he chose a spot off the main road where he'd done this same thing to many other kids. And after he raped Christine while she was unconscious, he got back in the driver's seat to take her to his apartment. He found, however, that his car was firmly stuck in the mud. Now, Clifford spent an hour trying to get himself out because he couldn't very well call a tow truck with Christine in the car, but his rage, paired with the underlying anger from Jones' letter, only grew with each passing minute.

So he finally decided that the only way to get his car out was with a tow truck. And the only way he could call a tow truck is if he got rid of Christine Weller permanently. And that's how cold this decision was. He didn't kill her because he had an overwhelming urge like Jeffrey Dahmer or because he had momentarily lost control like John Wayne Gasey.

Olson killed Christine Weller because she was an obstacle to Cliffrey. getting on with his day. It was a practical choice. Additionally, I think that the clumsiness of this murder is what tells you that it was almost certainly Clifford's first. Clifford was 40 years old in 1980, which is unusually late in life

for a serial killer to begin a spree that takes almost a dozen victims. But it's important note that while Clifford Olson undoubtedly took sexual pleasure from his murders, he began his serial killing career out of narcissistic self-preservation. And he continued murdering, mostly, with that same motivation. That's why I think this is his first murder,

because he's so chaotic with all the rest of his crimes and he gets caught for most everything else. If he would have murdered before them, he would have gotten caught, and he would not have stopped. If he would have murdered one person when he was 21, he would have kept. And it worked?

And it worked. He would have kept, he would have murdered people at 22, He would just kept doing it and getting crazier and crazy because that's how he was. Especially if it worked. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if he had found that it was a process that worked, he definitely would have done it because everything was about aiding and abetting just his lifestyle of crime.

Yeah. And these murders, like, it's like a year and a half. It's like 11 murders in a year and a half because that's his personality. He finds that he likes and he does it over and over and over again. It's almost like he was scared to murder because he thought he was going to get caught. Yeah. And then he realized that's the way to not get caught because I'm already. not getting busted for sexual assault,

but if I want to make sure I'm not going to get busted for sexual salt, I'll get rid of the evidence. Mm-hmm. So after Clifford decided to kill Christine Weller, he pulled the laces out of her shoes and tried using those to strangle her. She was still alive after his first attempt,

so he pulled them tight around her throat again and counted to 120. Her face turned blue, then purple. So Olson figured that was that. But when he let go of the shoe strings again, Christine coughed. She was still alive. so Olson tried suffocating her by holding his hand over her nose and mouth.

That didn't work either, so Olson tried the shoelaces again. This time the shoelaces snapped. Both frustrated by his failure, but also aroused by the violence, Olson decided to rape Christine a second time. But after he finished, he decided to use a full-proof method to finish it. He grabbed a four-inch buck knife from his rental car and dragged Christine out into a thicket of Blackberry bushes. When she was far away from the car,

Clifford plunged the knife into her heart twice before slitting her throat, which ended her life at long last. He then took her clothes, cut them up, and tossed the pile of rags into the river. Her ID card was burned, her jewelry thrown into a ditch, and the knife he used was broken and thrown into the river.

This would be Clifford's M.O. for cleanup almost every time. With rare exceptions, Clifford was careful to never leave behind evidence or keep trophies, nor did he get sentimental about weapons. As I said, this was all just a narcissistic means to an end for Clifford Olson. It's just another crime. Yeah, and after finishing the cleanup, Olson absent-mindedly walked back to his car, and he suddenly remembered the whole reason why he'd kill Christine in the first place. I, this godforsaken ADHD. I have got to start right. The stuff, don't. His car was still,

stuck. So Olson had an actual forehead slap moment shortly after murdering someone for the first time. You know, it is aggravating getting stuck in the mud. It is. You're right, any. No, you're right. It is. It's very aggravating. Super aggravating, but I bet you the tow truck driver wouldn't have blink twice at the little girl fucking knocked out in there. He'd be like, oh yeah, nice. So the thing is, though, you said he didn't leave any evidence behind, but he had sex with her. Yes. Oh, there's no DNA? It's 1980.

It's 1980. Yeah. Yeah. The best they can do is at in 1980. If you're a secretor or non-secreter, it's one of those? And maybe I think at this point they might be able to match like blood type to semen type. But even then, that's not that, you know, that's circumstantial, that doesn't hold up in court. Yeah, they probably think he's in some prison. Yeah, maybe. And so at 4 a.m., Olson walked to a nearby hotel and called a tow truck.

While waiting, Olson took a taxi home, changed clothes, and threw everything he'd worn during the murder into an incinerator. and he did that every time. He then called his mother and discovered that while Joan had not gone to her own mother's place, as she said in the letter, she had gone to Clifford's mother's house in Coquitlam. Apparently, while Clifford was murdering a 12-year-old,

the two women in his life had been up all night talking about the problems of living and dealing with Clifford. What do we do with a boy like Clifford? What do we do with them? That's my thing. What do we do with that? I've been thinking to myself, what do you do with a boy like Clifford? I think we sit and we give him a good talking to.

A good talking to is a, that's a good idea. And we take away his syrup? I can't believe she went back to his mother's house. Of course. She went not only did she go to his mother's house. Like Clifford's mother ended up putting Joan on the phone. And while Joan said that Clifford was calm and in control, she claimed that she felt a, quote, evil presence coming over the phone while they were speaking.

And even so, he told her, I'll see you later. And after returning to the hotel, Clifford met the tow truck, and his car was finally pulled out of the mud while Christine's rapidly decomposing body lay in the Blackberry bushes just as stones throw away. The car was, as I said, a rental. So after cleaning and returning it, Clifford got in his own car and drove to his mother's place in Coquitlam, where he once again charmed Joan into taking him back.

No! Clifford Olson had just committed the first of 11 murders, and we'll get to each and everyone next week on the conclusion to our series on Clifford Olson. And I tell you what I can't wheat. He's my favorite Canadian old fender. Oh, yeah. They love saying, oh, offender.

Oh, offender. Who are the other ones? Robert Picton, there been other... Many. Yeah, it's Carla Homo... Or was it a... Carl La Homocha and Paul Bernardo. Yeah, Paul Bernardo, yeah.

There's been many different... The Kenan Barbie killers. There's been other Canadian serial killers, but he's definitely... Arguably the most famous one besides... Pichton. I would say he might actually be more famous than Piquetton. Yeah, technically.

Yeah. It was a bigger deal because of the scandal that we'll cover on next week. Yeah, not surprisingly, a lot of Canadian serial killers have never been caught. They go right back into the Yukon. Yeah, there's a thing called the highway of tears that we might get into one day. Many indigenous women went missing.

Yeah, they had the whole school thing too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They go hide there because, you know, you can't catch them there. Another. Patreon.com. Crime against the memory of the indigenous. Podcast on the left, if you want to give a little bit of kish for JIS for J.

jokes like that. We made it all the way to the end. Yeah. And if you want to see the stream live every Tuesday at 5 p.m. PST, that is to be watched on our Patreon. Patreon.com slash last podcast on the left. Don't cost too much money to get in there and talk to us on the chat and interact with us as we do this stream thing live.

Had a lot of fun on the stream this week. God, it was great. It was a real fun on this week. I really do love doing the stream. Go see all our YouTube. going the LPN TV over on YouTube See the Bloodbath 77 is out completely out. It is fucking incredible

and we are gearing up for another season at some point I do imagine. And then we also got checkout our we're going about to announce the second printing of our Halloween sound effects album and you will get that information very, very soon and it's going to be coming out by Halloween.

Sounds like you just announced it. I announced it last week but I still don't have the specific day. We're waiting on the specific day but we know it's going to be ready by Halloween. Yeah. We really need to stop telling people about stuff before we have specific days. The problem is that then they say, you didn't say anything about the stuff. And I'm trying to talk about the stuff.

So remind them of the stuff as much as I can because then we get the day and then I forget to announce it. It's hard. People, yeah, things happen. Well, I like to remind these fuckers. I'm going to be in Denver on Sunday. Yeah. I sold out the first show. Come to the second one.

It's going to be a blast that the comedy works. downtown me, Julie Rosen, having a great fucking time. And then next weekend, Henry and I are going to be in Brooklyn and Hartford. Back in Brooklyn! That's right. And then following the rest of the month, Los Angeles, October 14th at the Stray Theater, Radway, California, the Meiteal Community Center. Henry and I are going to be on that.

And then the very next day in the afternoon. On October 25th, I'm going to be at Cobb's Comedy Club, split in time with the wonderful Billy Wayne Davis. Oh, and don't forget to come out and see us at New York Comic Con. Yeah, baby, Thursday. Yeah, Thursday's the panel and Saturday's the sun. Yeah, come and check out. We're going to have a good team.

Yeah, we love you guys. Hail Sweet Satan. Oh, Hanging. Hail, you know, I'll pick another member from the band, Richard Manuel. Really good. Richard Manuel is also pretty great. Yeah, he's a wonderful man. Again, everybody, anybody but.

Robbie Robertson. Yeah. But they like him. We know. He's a delable and a necessary part of the band did ruin it for everybody else. Yeah, and a good actor as well. I will say, if anything, I think

that's debatable. They were all pretty fucked up and he did all the work. I feel like this is pushing him back towards an apologist statement. Seems like somebody hasn't read Levin Holm's autobiography. No, I haven't. Different story. Yeah, I know there was. I know, I know, but at the same time,

he was trashed. Wow. Jesus fucking Christ at the end of the episode. Wow. Get out of you. Shots fired on Leave on Helm at the end? We're going to get the fuck out of here before we fucking do worse. He's my favorite member of the band.

He was the only American. We have to stay up for him. Actually, Rick Danko is the best member in the band. But what are we doing there? Rinkko played an organ, right? Keyboard. No, that was Richard Manuel.

And then the other guy, the crazy guy, Garth Hudson, he also played the keys and the organ. I like Bob Seeger. They were the best ones. Yes, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Amy Helm. I hope everything goes well for you.

Everything that's happening over there at the Midnight Rambles. Fucked up. And I hope everything works out good for you. Figure it out. Thank you.