Last Podcast On The Left - Last Update On The Left Episode 11 Return To Skinwalker Ranch

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Something strange is going on in northeastern Utah, and this week on Last Update on the Left, the boys head deep into the mysteries of Skinwalker Ranch. From its infamous former owners and the bizarre phenomena that drove them out, to the current stewards and the reality shows that helped turn the ranch into a paranormal lightning rod, we're breakin' down what’s actually known - versus what’s been sensationalized this week on Last Update! For Live Shows, Merch, and More Visit: www.LastPodcastOnTheLeft.comKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Last Podcast on the Left ad-free, plus get Friday episodes a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That's when the cannibalism started. Last update on the left. I thought my belly was going away, and then I ate a sandwich, and it came back. What do you mean? I was doing the workout. I thought my little belly was going away. It goes in and out. And then I ate a sandwich, and it came back out again.

That's how you tell you're really thin. Yeah. Yeah. That means you're like a boa constrictor. You know, if I can see the outline of the recent lunch that you've had. BOT? You got it. Incredible. I can see the ruffles of the lettuce.

Is my talking about my belly going to be the start of this episode of Last Update on the Left? I think it has to be, buddy. I think it has to be. Welcome. My name's Marcus Parks. It's me, Henry Zabrowski. And wow. We're back here again. Yeah. I'm Ed Larson. And the update is Marcus now has a stomach. It's the best thing to happen to the show. I like them a little. I like you. I get comfortable. And I am comfortable. I am. I had a bagel. and then I had a sandwich

and now I got a belly because I'm a little skinny man. Well, guess what, man? If I have one sip of yeast, my body expands. But we're not just talking about our body's expanding. No.

No. We're talking about the ever-expanding coverage of the skin walkers. Now, my first question is, aren't we all skin walkers? Hmm. Because we have skin and we walk? No, but it definitely...

Could they think of like a scarier actual term than something that we all do and have? Remember back, they technically comes from, it's actually, it should be the S-W word, because it's actually an old-timey ghost racist term for humans. Oh, ghosts say it to us. Yes, it is an old term. Why do they think they're fucking better at us? Yes, they do.

Because they know where aliens live. This fucking abandoned house is great before all these goddamn skin workers moved in. Grandpa, hey, I know I only died of COVID and I'm nine years old. But hey, listen, you got to keep up with the times, Grandpa. The show. The shower. Yeah, I'm sorry. The reason why they're called Skin Walker is that Skinwalker comes from the old Native American legend.

And I think Skin Walker is like the literal translation for, and I might be talking out of my ass here. I'm just thinking that it's like the literal translation of what the Uintabasin people, I can't remember exactly what tribe it was. You know that. I'll catch you up right now. the Skinwalker Ranch. Just remember it was a family lived on Skinwalker Ranch. They would go ahead and experience. And it was a 500 acre farm in the middle of Uinta Basin, Utah.

It is this area of the world is known for its UFOs. When we covered this a long, not that long ago. I mean, it was like six years ago, dude. Jesus Christ. It is long. But if you go through all of the stuff, like this area has years and years and years of of various UFO experiences that have built up over time and this one phenomena called the Skinwalker Phenomena.

So at the time, I forget the name of the tribes that you lived around the Uinta Basin. It starts with an eye. I do know that they did have a war with Mormons that was quite blood. It was really brutal. Good for them. They wouldn't go into this area, this canyon.

They would not go into this canyon because they legitimately thought it was creepy. And a part of what they did was they called the Trail of the Skinwalker said went through this area. Now, skinwalkers are shamans, magical people that instead of taking their magical responsibility to their community and using it responsibly and a positive way, they normally what they do is the final tabo, which is what Armin Maiva says. We talk about them all the time. The final tabo, which is cannibalism.

And what they do is they do some form of evil, cannibalistic rituals. where they give up their own humanity in order to be able to change form into various animals to do nefarious shit. Essentially, it's to kill or to steal and then not be recognized. It's to leave. But it comes with a host of other negative associations and bad juju powers. So they turn into like dire wolves and stuff like that. And oversized wolves is the thing that does come up quite a bit at Skinwalker Ranch. Yeah.

It's a Ute Indian tribe. The U. Yeah. That's a, yeah, that was their, that's their. name. The two youths? The two youths. But it came from a fan. But this has now been researched up and down.

It is called the most researched 500-acre plot of land in the world. They've had several different gigantic paranormal slash not paranormal studies done in the area to kind of see where all of these various stories come from and if they are true or not. When will they stop? They won't because they are. are making too much money. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's still so much to be learned out there.

Like, I really feel like with Skimwalker Ranch, like we went through it on our episode, like how many strange events happened there? Like there was a, like a, what was it, Bingo, the Everything dog? Yeah, there was a weird ass dog that did change into several different shapes. It was owned by the Sherman family. Yeah. And they saw UFOs very similar to Nope. Like, there was a lot of stuff in Nope that was straight imagery that was taken

from Skinwalker Ranch that I thought was fucking awesome. Yeah. I thought it was going to go more into Skinwalker territory, but it didn't, but I still loved Nope. Yeah, nope's incredible. But the idea of like clouds that stay still in the sky. Yeah. One thing that's also really weird about Skinwalker Ranch is portals, saying things that are opening up in the sky. They say that they literally saw like buttholes gape in the sky and then ships would come in

and out of the buttholes. There was also giant wolves, dire wolves. Palturgeist activity. Poltergeist activity. Yeah, it was like there would be cows that would suddenly, like basically teleportation where cows would suddenly be crammed into a trailer and nobody would know like, now is this how they got mutilated? That was super fucking weird.

And there's been multiple cattle mutilations. Yeah. It's also one of the top phenomena on Skinwalker Ranch. And there's been cattle mutilations described in Skin Walker Ranch going back as far as the 30s. Yes. Now, what's the CTV situation on Skin Walker Ranch? Constant. Constant.

It is, it is filmed. over the place, but one of also the weird phenomena is the thing cuts the cords to the cameras. They find cords missing to pull out of the back of cameras, stuff that's like suspicious, like truly, truly suspicious. And I listened to George Knapp and Colm Keller her recently that they wrote the original book on this subject called Hunt for the Skinwalker Ranch. Yeah, this is Hunt for the Skinwalker. Which has been around now for a minute.

It was in 2005. I just watched that doc. And it's, I love that. You know, I love them. Yes. And so the Sherman family, they were so freaked out by this that they didn't want to be there anymore. And they saw a lot of fucked up shit. Like one thing was that like a giant wolf approached the father that was like, approached Terry Sherman and he shot at it and it didn't die.

It ran away. And a lot of other weird stuff. And so they finally got sick of it. So they sold it to the man who runs the extended stay universe instead of the extended. I would say the extended universe of the extended stay hotels. It's Robert Bigelow. He's trying to create space hotels. Okay.

That's his main thing. He's a huge, huge... Well, if there's portals to space, it's a great place to start. He owns a lot of rental property. Yes. Yes. And he is a weird slash Republican donor, but also a very, very curious man who spent a lot of his millions of his billions researching this phenomenon.

So he bought the ranch. And then he put this group on it called Nids. That was a thing that he put together. And what does NID stand for again? The National Institute for Discovery Science. And they did a very, very serious research program there for, I want to say, it was something like 20 years. They were there. And Robert Bigelow, forever, jealously held the data that he had control of all of these years.

Keep that a little bit here and there. Yeah. To keep the interest in the project going. Well, also because he gave money, but also Senator Harry. read also helped get a lot of government money applied to this area as well. Eventually, the United States government arrived and said, so what are we getting out of this? And they're all like, oh, the phenomena is very interesting. And they're like, uh, we're done here.

And so they cut them off. Yeah, I mean, because, I mean, they, as you said earlier, like, they kind of created like an X-files underneath everyone's noses, but just relegated to one 500-square, you know, like 500-acre ramp. in Utah. Yes. And they gave them $22 million, correct? They did have $22 million to work on the project. And they found nothing.

Well, we don't know. Nothing conclusive. Nothing inclusive. Well, nothing that we necessarily know about. You have the witness testimony, which is, this is from the original research. There's lots of witness testimony. There's a lot of written. That's most of the evidence.

And a lot of what they discovered, which I do think is interesting, part of what came out, one of the weird, fun, shady things that came out after the fact, a lot of the guys that were hired security, they essentially were used as barometers for the effects of the ranch, whether they knew it or not. Yeah. So a lot of the times had found out that the call was coming from inside the house, is that the measurements that they were using were coming from the humans that were there and their reactions to the phenomenon.

Well, who else is going to know? Well, that's, we... You ask me the people that are there. But you have to tell them, hey, that's why you're here. And they weren't telling these guys. hey, this is why you're here. I mean, it's the same type of shit that the government has been doing for years upon years where, you know, like the time they dumped a whole bunch of, like, fake poison to the water supply,

or they did, what was the mist in San Francisco? To see how far an aerialized, an aerosolized, whatever the term is, a virus, and see how a biological agent could possibly move along a coastline. Yeah. They just sprayed us all. Yeah. just willy-nilly with essentially a quote-unquote harmless bacteria to see what it would do. Zygot 16?

Yeah, yeah. It was basically to see if an aerosolized anthrax attack would work. And they found out that it did, but they also killed two people doing it. Yeah, they had a bad reaction to the test shit. But yeah, this type of stuff happens quite often. They also did it in Edgewood, which we're going to be doing an update very soon about Edgewood. Yeah, I'm not as skeptical because we talked. to George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell.

Right? And I'm not as skeptical as much, but I just don't get it. I don't feel like there's that much actual evidence. Because it's more examining how difficult it is to know how to capture the evidence.

I mean, yeah, that might actually be a good way of putting it is that it's a study on how to study this stuff. You know, like it's an experiment on how to experiment because they're trying to figure, because that's one of the things that paranormal activity or paranormal research has really struggled with over the years

is what are the, how do we quantify this stuff? How do we measure this stuff? Because guess what you can't get unless you can quantify the stuff? Government funding for your research programs. Yeah, nor can you get any academic institution to take you seriously unless you have some sort of quantifier.

If you have some way of classifying and I think Skinwalker Ranch is, that's a big part of what they're trying to do. I feel like this $22 million, in my opinion, was just like, shut up money. You know, like this is not real money to invest in a fucking, like a true investigation, in my opinion. Because the other half. You can't even make like a romantic comedy for 22 million.

That's true. It's true. Absolutely correct. In terms of the government scale. Well, it's because Robert Bigelow was also self-funding. Yeah. So one half was coming from the government and the rest was coming from the never-ending cash flow of Robert Bigelow until he finally offloaded the ranch. And when he offloaded the ranch was kind of when we stopped covering.

It was 2016. And then the book had come out. We did hunt for the skinwalker. And at that point, we had covered, when we did our episodes, we talked about various stories that happened on the ranch. And we talked about how we knew that, because it came from Hunt for the Skinwalker. And which I do find one of my favorite things now after,

one thing I learned was that George Knapp originally was not super pleased that we had done a show using his book because he was like, he had heard these group of jokers were talking about his fucking, That's his baby. That was one of his babies. Yeah. Like George Knapp is truly one of the most, in the end, I think we'll be named one of the most important men in Uphology. Because of his singular dedication to the proper investigation of these, bringing an air of legitimacy to the investigations of all of this type of.

And not backing down. Never. You know, because he knows that it, like, makes him look crazy and he doesn't give a shit. But guess what? He's hardcore and he's still won awards. He still does crime reporting. He still does all his other investigative. journalism. I feel like you have to make yourself

legitimate enough to get funding for this. He came after, he went after mobsters. He did stuff on the Las Vegas mayor that went to jail. He's done a lot of shit. Like, I love George Napp. I, unironically. And so when I found out that he was angry, we're all like, oh, no. Oh, God, what are we going to do? Until

he listened. And then he listened and he said, oh, you guys did some of the work. We're like, we're trying, Mr. Knapp. We're trying. He said that we went a different way with. Yeah, we added stuff. He appreciated it. And so you guys got to talk to him at a contact in the desert.

And, you know, got to have a great conversation with him. It was very cool. But the thing about him is that the more I talk, the more I, at least buy that what he brought to the table was extremely honest. And he believes, because, like, there's a lot of talk about Robert Bigelow trashing the records of what happened during the Nid's investigation of the hunt for the Skinwalker during that hunt for the Skinwalker time period. And George Knapp, like many times has said, we, in our book writing, it is, that is the record. That is what Bigelow had. What Bigelow probably has that none of us have seen is probably a couple of choice pictures,

which is again, what we've learned is these guys either don't have them or they, they use that as a cudgel against many people to be like, you can't get it. But the word is, according to- Would that get you funding? I don't know. I actually don't know anymore because, if he goes out, because this is what, now this is an interesting phenomenon that we're at now in the post post-information world is that if, let's say you have a great picture of a UFO, and you, you do have one, and you are this guy, Robert Bigelow, vaguely shady, but, you know, technically a hotelier. Could be anything if you have it, but you might have a picture, Bonco, the everything, dog.

You might have a picture of a massive wolf. You might have a picture, something that will make the world stand up and say, whoa. So one of the worst things that you could do is release that. have everyone come out and be like, oh my God, have it earth chatter, right? Like, let's have it. It's like, oh, my God, this crazy picture. And then let's say somebody does a hit job on it. Like, I just got out of the, like, just as a total nightmare scenario. Someone does a hit job on the photo, does everything possible to try to show that it's debunked.

Now, you've given this guy a bunch of money on his, the, the back of this incredible release of information. The information is now debunk. You're not got to get the money back from this asshole. You got to do it. So no one wants to do it. No one wants to finally put that last piece out because what if then my last piece, everybody fucking doesn't even believe it?

Of course that's going to happen. Oh, yes. And it's not only that, but by saying I have this photo, I have this last piece, people will still pay attention to you. People will still give you, you know, people will still invite you to things. People still do interviews with you. But if you give everything that you got,

then it's like, okay, well, we got everything we got from that guy. Don't have to talk to him anymore. But when we were covered Skinwalker Ranch, like at the time, too, it was still very mysterious. And so it was a mysterious place. And a lot of stuff. The TV show had not happened yet. It had not become a part of like, you know, the zeitgeist as it sort of is now where basically everyone knows what Skinwalker Ranch is now. Back when we covered it, it was still very under the radar mysterious.

Can we go? No. No. I don't want to go. I know you're not wanting to go. but like are we allowed to go? I think that you can take tours, but you have to know somebody.

By invitation, yeah. Yes, you have to know somebody. I got some flirts going on. Oh, nice. Just a couple of old men. Okay. That's my favorite. Because I didn't give them something

they don't got no more, man. It's certainly not a bunch of attractive young ladies. No, it's never weird, right? It's never a girl named Valentina, who's also an Instagram model. It's never her. It's always blurk. You know, like, it's always some kind of like,

Ah, I teach you, you know about rocks. Like, oh, great. Shatajy scary. Robbie Williams. Love Robbie Williams. But no, I don't want to go to Skimalker Ranch. And the reason why I don't want to go to Skimwocker Ranch is because it's something that we discovered after covering the ranch on the main feed is the hitchhiker effect.

I am terrified of this. Hitchhiking ghosts. Hitchhiking ghosts, like your favorite! Yeah! How did mention! It's not like that. It seems like it. No.

No. Hitchhiking ghosts give you audioimmune diseases, unless you're fucking them without a condom. I don't know. I don't know. Live from your play. All right. We covered it back in the day.

We'll kind of go a little bit more about what has expanded since then. Since then, George Knapp wrote a book with two guys. Two, a sexy guys named James Lackatsky. and Colm Keller. Now, James Lekatsky is a former intelligence officer defense guy that was so spooked by what happened to him after he went to Skinwalker Ranch that he decided it was enough for him to tell these guys what he knew because he was like, he basically was like, I want to go see it. And he went with Colm Kellerher and George Knapp and scared the living fuck out of him. And then it weirdly also semi-ruined his life after the fact. And so they wrote Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. And I'm just going to tell you now, you should go by it and read it.

And it is not like, it's not Game of Thrones. Sure. You know? But it is a really interesting investigation into how to talk to these guys about something none of them want to talk to. And one of the main components that came out was really breaking down what the New York Times got wrong in December 2017 when it named ATIP. It named a couple of these inner groups.

and they were wrong. Yeah, the big, the 2017 articles, it was the first time in modern history that a major publication has given UFOs, or UAPs, as it were, the time of day. Yes, but they were incorrect. They're following the money of where the actual, because Lou Elizondo sort of put himself,

he, Lou Elizondo was the man that released, helped leak this UFO material to the New York Times in December of 2017. He worked for a thing called A-Tip. which was this inner group within the, I believe it's the aerial, aerial nautical threat. Not area. No, not anymore. A tip is, no, I'm going to know.

A part of the Pentagon at the very least, right? Advanced aerospace threat identification program. Now, what they were supposed to do was look at things in the sky, figure out whether or not they were weirdly anomalous, figure out whether or not they were trying to hurt us, and whether or not we could do whatever that they were doing and turned it into weaponry for us. Now, Lou Elizondo came out and said,

oh, I'm the leader of this group. we now kind of know that it's probably not the case. He probably was a guy somewhere within it who man, but he has now done since a lot of good work trying to get this stuff out that we can see so that we can see some of it because the main contention is, all right, we don't know what it is. The government doesn't know what it is, but it's not hurting us yet.

And that's what they're really afraid of, but still like, why can't we know about it? Turns out it's actually a lot more complicated than that. So A-Tip, with this book then talks about how A-Tip was moved into a thing called A-SAP, which is, you like this? Do you like this, Marcus? You like, it's like being married to me. This is it.

This is our life. Hey, man, I'm getting, I gave this one over to it. Well, I didn't actually give this one over to you. No, took it. I have just sort of kidnapped it. Yeah, because I tried taking, like, I, I try. Do you want it back? Do you want this back?

No, please, please continue. So the advanced aerospace weapons system applications program, no, now we're locked in. Now we're locked in. The very least, I'm letting you finish this thought. Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. But what we're really seeing is, so I'm just kind of the main points of the book, the advanced airspace weapon system applications program is the next version of this.

That is actually what got the $22 million. That is the thing that was all like, and that was one thing that this, the investigative book proved. It followed the money and it kind of untangled a bunch of stuff that the New York Times accidentally tangled up for a lot of people. Because immediately people went looking for atip. They couldn't find it. They found a thing called Allsap. They thought that, like, oh, this is all this information, but they showed these are the technically very tedious differences.

Yeah. Now, who is organizations? Can I, who is boss? Bass. Bass. Bigelow Aerospace Studies. That's Robert Bigelow's personal aerospace technology company. That's his guy, right? So, and the other thing that the new book comes out is explains this concept of the hitchhiker phenomena and really why, truly at the core of our U.S.

government's hesitancy to research any of this stuff. And it's because of the religious angle and because of this hitchhiker effect. Yeah, well, basically what the hitchhacker effect is is that most people who go to Skimwalker Ranch, and in some cases, like some pools of questioning, every single person that they questioned after they went to Skimwalker Ranch brought something home with them. And what that something is, no one really knows. All they know is that it is paranormal. activity that manifests itself in many different ways.

Some people, it manifests itself in disembodied voices. Some people it manifests as moving objects like poltergeist activity. Other people, they see blue orbs that will just suddenly appear in their house. And one person had a blue orb. He said it moved through him. And very soon after, he developed a very aggressive form of cancer and died. But did he die? I'm not sure if he died.

But I do know the guy who the blue orb went through him. No, he did not die, but he got a very aggressive form of cancer. And some people even see shadow monsters. Not monsters, but, you know, shadow people. That's the most dangerous form of ghosts. Did you know that? That's what I hear. According to Ed Warren.

The shadow monster. Yes, the most dangerous form of ghost. And in fact, the biggest thing, though, is that these, you know, hitchhikers and, you know, these people that, you know, this phenomenon that makes people sick. Robert Bigelow, it's speculated that the reason why he sold Skimwalker Ranch is because he believed that Skimwalker Ranch, one of these hitchhackers, he believes it killed his wife because she died of a very aggressive form of leukemia very quickly. Does she die on the ranch? No.

Has anyone died on the ranch? We don't know. Well, yeah, actually, it's the better answer is we don't know. Okay. Yeah, we have no idea. Because it was an Indian burial ground. Well, yeah. I mean, the whole Indian burial ground thing is, if I may say,

bit of a racist idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was put forth, like, that's when we'll talk about it, you know, a little bit when we do our Amityville update. But the whole idea of the Indian burial ground, that was sort of created around the time of Amityville, like, out of some other, like, piece of media that was, it came afterwards. Because they had mounds in Amityville. That's the reason why they tried to attach it to the Native American burial grounds.

And even that was fine. It was even dumber than that. But, like, the Shittacook tribe came out. out and said, like, we don't do that. We weren't there. Yeah. No, he said, like, why would our spirits come back and haunt you? Our spirit, we don't believe in that sort of thing.

That's not, that's not what we're about, you know, just to say, like, you know, and then, you know, buried on an Indian barrogram became just kind of a term. Like, it became a joke throughout the years. It is a racist thought to think that their graveyards are so extra-spanning. Yeah. Extra scary. Yeah. Because they're old school. Yeah, it goes back, like, they're more evil.

It goes back to the whole, like, savage idea. Like, they're more evil than we are. They're more savage than we are. Therefore, like, we can, you know, their ghosts are going to be meaner. Yeah. But, of course, you know, polter guys, those ghosts say, yeah, but you move the headstones.

But you get them move the bodies! Those are just plain old white folk. And we do that all the time. It happens way more than you think it does. I got no problem with it. Maybe cemeteries are a waste of space. We all, we talked about. I believe that.

But truly the, it's interesting, because what also the skin walkers at the Pentagon really elucidates is kind of what we're coming up against. One thing that was interesting that I learned was that there was a period of time where Robert Bigelow's bass, whatever the offices were, whatever you'd call that, they were supposedly, and you can take this with a fucking mountain of salt, they were told at some point during their contract, prepare for a shipment of this, what they called exotic materials.

So there was a period of time where apparently they were preparing to move something that they had inside of some hangar somewhere that they didn't know what it was. And they were about to give it to Robert Begolo for him to research. And then it just never happened. And then it seems, and again, I'm all of this is on the, to me, the believability of George Knapp, which is he went looking and the more and more he would bounce against what seems to be the major, major, big, big secret, which is that they got something. And we don't know who's in charge of the thing. It legitimately might be like a construction company. It legitimately might be something that's outside of the government purvey thing altogether.

That there is somebody that is holding on to something they found. This is according to them. That's the one big secret. And the second big, big, big secret, which is I, which was pointed towards, I don't know if I should even say this. Secret information. Sources I can't reveal. This is what they all say. I think you're just enjoying finally being able to do this.

Now, I can say it. No, you can do it. Because I got some inside information as well. Yeah. Because I know. Well, don't reveal your sources, but what is it? Yeah. Dr. Theodore Seuss.

That's your source. That's my source. Green eggs, damn is bad. You know why? Because they are fucking spoiled. Yeah. But, um... Was it,

was it a blue fish that did this? No. Or was it a two fish? No. It was a three fish. But the... Actually, it's kind of racist to call it a two fish. Yeah, you fucking piece of shit.

How dare you? But I, uh, it is the fact that they, whatever it is is making us very sick. And that what the, are people having contact with any form of the quote unquote phenomenon? It's making people get something not unlike long COVID, getting something not, some kind of autoimmune disease that is really hurting people. And they don't know what the hell it is because it's not radiation poisoning and something else. But nothing's happened to NAP. He's been there a bunch of times.

But NAP says that he brought back shit to his own house. And he says that's the reason why he'll never go back. He will not go back. Oh, really? Yes. He's done. He's done. He says he's done because he said the last time he came back, shit started moving around his house.

and then his wife started seeing things and he said, I got to stop going. But his house is all spooky shit. He's not. He's the opposite. He says to me, according to what he's... He's just an investigator. Yeah, he's like, this is not his life.

He's just being like, I'd rather be anywhere else. Like, essentially, like, basically, he would much rather... He'd much rather be hanging out with, like, LeBron James. He should have been a sports reporter. Mm-hmm. Just for his own life. Just for his own life. Yeah.

But he just likes a long, suggest. and a tall glass of scotch. Yeah. And the rat pack. Yep, he does. Well, I mean, I can see his point because, you know, Robert Bigelow in an interview that he gave to George Knapp in like 2021, like Robert Bigelow says, and a couple of people have confirmed this, like, the shit that people bring back from Skimwalker Ranch, it's, again,

sort of like long COVID, there's no set expiration date on it. It's not like you come back, you experience stuff for a week, and then it's, you're done. Some people have been experiencing things for years, years upon years, that it just doesn't stop. And as far as they know, it's going to keep happening for the rest of their lives. It's just never going to stop for them. If it's never going to stop, then why not keep going back to try to figure out what the fuck it is to try and stop it? You got to pay your bills. Yeah, dude. Get more, dude. And then we go back, nothing going back is stopping it. And that's a part of the main issue with all of the research is that we really

haven't gotten anywhere, which technically brings us to the secret of Skinwalker Ranch. Right from your grave. But the craziest thing about that, you say, why don't people go back and try to figure it out, is that a lot of these people that come back with something, when they go to Skin Walker Ranch, when they've gone to Skin Walker Ranch, they've experienced nothing. Yeah, nothing happens. They experienced not a single fucking thing. They're like, I don't know what the big deal is.

This is just, you know, there's just someplace in Utah. And it's only after they go home that they experience. very real phenomenon. That was my problem with all the docs that I watched. It's like it's just a bunch of people walking around a field. Yeah. Well, again, as you're seeing more and more with the paranormal world, it's subtle. And that what you're seeing is an actual paranormal investigation not led by somebody like the Warrens.

Even though technically it is being sold. It's being sold to us is a mysterious thing. But it sounds like whatever is happening at Skinwalker. ranch. Like the way that George Knapp described it is that by the end of the NIDs run, by 2016, activity had all but stopped. Like, by the time they had gotten to the end of their scientific, like, whatever that round was, they'd like, no one was seeing jack shit ever, nothing was happening. Nothing, nothing fun, nothing weird.

And then what happened was that they gave it a break, which is kind of what we talked about on side stories. Remember we talked about how the, talk about the UK is running out of ghosts? Yes. And they were saying this concept, which is interesting, that they're, that ghost hunters are talking about less famous ghosts are not showing up anymore. Oh, like the ones at Borley Rectory? Yeah, that they're going and partially.

They finally got to heaven or hell or whatever. They finally got destroyed by all the fucking electricity in there. Yeah, something happened or battery ran out. And it does sound like what happened is that people, Skinwalker Ranch got like burn out. Yeah. On being explored. And it did not want to be fucking investigated anymore. And everything stopped.

But then the next guy bought the Skinwalker Ranch. We don't know who that is. We do now. Okay. Yeah, we know it. Brandon Fugel. Yes. Is his name.

Real estate cartoon speaks in movie references. Oh, he is such a pain in the ass. Is he going to build like a hotel there? No, I mean, he's there for the paranormal. Yes, he really is. Yeah, he really is there for the paranormal. Like, he's, and I think it's, I think he, it seems like he likes it. Because, I mean, this man wants his life to be a movie.

Yeah. I mean, he owns a fucking, you know, endoskeleton from Terminator 2. Like, he owns, like, the fucking T-800. Like, he owns the fucking glasses from Harry Potter. He specifically drives the Lamborghini that Bruce Wayne drives in the dark night begins. That was that one that he pulls into the restaurant with the models. He bought that Lamborghini, the screen used one. He doesn't drive it on the dirt roads up.

Skinwalker, does he? I mean, I didn't. That seems irresponsible. That's his property, bro. You wouldn't do donuts and Skinwalker ranch at Batman's Lambo? That's fucking incredible. That's an afternoon, dude.

So, is anything happen to this guy? Not that we know of. Well, he said that, no, he's a straight experience. Well, I mean, well, anything bad at happening, I guess what I would say is that. Yes, he did see a UFO. Yes. He did see that. He saw, like, a full silver disc in broad daylight.

Yeah, he's an experienceder and had a chase. and had changed his mind because for a while he had just bought it to have it. So when he found out it was for sale, he flipped out because he's a pop culture whore and he really wanted to get his, and his hands on something that he could fucking tell whole the world he has. Look how cool I am. Look what I have. Just out of sheer curiosity, how much was it? I don't know if you had that info.

I don't know. Six million. Yeah. It was a lot. But he already owned like a ton of property in Utah. He was like sort of a, he was a real estate magnate in Utah. Yeah. No name.

I know this sounds irresponsible and I'm probably answering my own question as I ask it. But why not making it like a fucking theme park? And like that's how we're really going to find out. You know, they're packing it with fucking people and seeing if they all go home of cancer. But I feel like that's a hard way to start. I feel like everyone's going to be angry about getting ghost cancer because they wouldn't want to roll a ghost. They're going to pay for it.

They know they sign a waiver. I could get ghost cancer. wrong. Actually, everyone who goes on Skimwalker Ranch does have to sign a waiver saying I might get ghost cancer. They do. Every single person who enters the property has to sign a waiver saying like, I understand that I may suffer adverse effects from visiting this place. I do not hold the owners or anyone who goes with me responsible for anything that may happen to me on or off the ranch afterwards. Yeah, man, they're already signing the fucking waivers. So I don't think we're going to get real statistics until we start putting real numbers in there.

But that's what they tried to do with the government. They did have a fair amount of people in there. And with this fucking TV show, there's people in and out of there all the time. Yeah. There are people in and out all the time now. And so for a while, there was just government guys watching the outside exterior and it was empty. And they would talk about that there was a people would get kicked in and out. And eventually when Fugel bought it, he's like, he was just kind of had it for a while.

And it sounded like for a while at first, he wasn't expecting to do anything. with it. He wanted his name to be secret. He did not want to be identified with the property because he was like, he didn't want to get harassed. He didn't want to think of people ask him about it all time. Um, you know, he's like, you know, I give you my name. You tell your friends. They tell your other friends.

You know what he's calling me. You don't buy it because you don't want to talk about it. Exactly. Yeah. But according to him, but he was also, this whole time, he was also doing the monitoring. You know, he was, he wanted to figure out, like, he kind of took the mantle from Begalo as far as the investigation goes. So he He didn't buy it.

Even though he's just a real estate guy who likes movies. Yeah, yeah. He didn't buy it just to have it. He was continuing. He carried the torch. Yeah, he wanted it. He wanted this responsibility. But then six months into the ownership,

he said that he was in the command center, which was the old homestead for those guys who are like, we're not going to be explaining every single. That's the run-down barn in the middle of the place. Thank you. He was seeing some people there, quote, unquote, he's according to him visiting dignitaries, which is probably dead new gin.

Robbie Williams. again. Yeah, again, always. I'm going to say Grimes. Yeah, Grimes. I can see Grimes hanging out there. Fred Durst. Too, my boy. We could say this now, probably. He was at contact in the desert. We couldn't find him. Yeah, man. I saw him, though. We did see him once. It looks good. He looks great. I like old man, Fred Durst. It's awesome. He's doing real well with it. He really is.

No. But then he said that according to Fugel, that he was at the old homestead. Or he was on his way back to the homestead. Yes, and he said first he looked in his line of sight, he saw an object in the sky. It was a full disk, 40 to 50 feet long. It hovered in broad daylight. And then he said that it just blinked away, disappeared in a second. And he said that it changed his whole life. And by then, the history channel, Akamakarland.

By 2018, his ranch manager started getting calls from History Channel producers. They wanted to collaborate on a TV show. Fugel reluctantly agreed. reluctantly. So long as they signed the NDA. And during their lunch, one of the producers asked for he was a believer. He said, I'm not a believer.

I'm an experiencer. Yeah, dude. And he said he had three conditions. Nothing could be faked. They had to use his team, his people. They couldn't, history channel couldn't bring in their own people. Like what, his, like, oh, his cameraman and shit? His researchers.

No, his researchers. Oh, okay. His guys. I got a grip. You got to see my guy, Joey. You ain't using another grip but my grip. He's the only deaf sound man in the business. What?

He's great. He's a funny guy. I said you're hired. What? No, his researchers, his doctor, you know, his PhD guys, his paranormal guys. And he also had the condition that they not reveal his identity. But the History Channel people smartly said like, yeah, okay, first two points. Great.

We won't fake anything. We'll use your... I'm sure they went and interviewed the dudes and like, okay, these guys are... They may not be, you know, the Pond Stars, but they're entertaining enough. What do you... What?

How dare you insult Dragon? Well, I mean, they're great, but, you know, do they have a Chumley? No. They don't have a bumbling. No, they don't have a chumly. Do they have an old man? No.

No, no. No, Pondsters is by far a better reality show. All right. I understand. there's more paranormal activity that happens at Pond Stars and has happened in all of search for Skinwalker Ranch, but still, I don't begrudge it. No, I don't begrudge it either. But on the third point, they're like, no, you got to be a character.

We have to know who owns this place. If you want to take this, if you want to take this. If you want to be on TV, you got to be on the TV. Yeah. If you want people to take this investigation seriously, like you can't just, we can't just have some unnamed guy owning the ranch. Yeah. Because in the Corbell documentary, they shot him like he was Dr. Claw from Expector Gag. Yeah, it's kind of fun.

I like that. I miss that. I wish that he did more of that. I wish he understood how much more fun that is. Like, if you walked around with a fucking, like, mask on, that's so much more fun. Yeah. He's just petting an alien. Yeah.

But so, secret to Skimwalker Ranch, that way, it's, but basically, this guy and all of his buddies. Or like former colleagues, like Dragon. Dragon. Dragon. Brian Dragon Arnold, which Dragon doesn't like the name, Dragon. I will say at first, I was laughing, but now I understand that it was a joke. Was it just because he had like too much booze

on his breath? No, it was because there was a guy. So according to lore, before they took over for the show, there was security officers often on the Skinwalker Ranch that were hired by Robert Bigelow. And there was one guy that was a fucking asshole that they called the dragon

that used to threaten people with like shooting them in the head and shit. And then eventually enough people asked this dude who was the fake head of security because it was Fugel's buddy. They come to it and they kept asking him, is he the dragon of old? And they started ironically calling him dragon and then it stuck.

Yeah. Well, they put a picture. Someone was like, yeah, here's dragon. Dragon, you fucking dragon, you're dragon now. Fuck you, you're dragon. I don't like being dragon. Fuck you, you're dragon. Yeah, he's angry that he's dragon. Yeah. And that's Fugel brought the property, someone visited and met this guy and asked like, oh, so you're a dragon. You're dragon, huh?

And he's like, no, I'm not, but they're like, fuck you, you're dragon now. Here's what I think. Barbecue restaurant. You call it the mutilated cow. This is not, man. Oh, yeah. Dragon's mutilated cow. Yeah, yeah.

It's a barbecue restaurant. I mean, well, dragons mutilated cow is at the very least to dry rub. Well, honestly, just call it cattle mutilations. That's what I eat fucking one. a week now. I'm down. I'm down on the red meat. Yeah, but although Dragon, he does carry a 12-gauge shotgun with him

everywhere he goes. Everywhere he goes, because you never know what's going to happen. Well, you're out in the middle of nowhere. Starwolves. Yeah, then you get the ranch manager, Jim Morse. He was, Jim was like Fugel's, like, first big developer client, like way, way, way back in the day. And of course, like, you know, Jim just

seemed like, okay, this is the right guy for the job. Yes. You know, he's the only one of the cast to claim that he's seen an actual Skinwalker on the ranch. Okay. Then you got Eric Bard. He's the principal investigator, the normal guy. He's fine. You know, I, I like, have you, he's a scientist, you know?

Did you watch any of the show? Um, I don't think I watch, there's so many shows. I don't think I watch the right one. I find it so interesting. Well, there's a, there are two now. There are two shows. I, but it is interesting. I watched the one that was on Netflix that only has season two.

Yes. That's all you need. You're fine. I think, I think you watched the wrong. one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because this is the history channel.

Yeah, but I watch the doc. Yeah, the doc is the best one. That's the best one to watch. And this show is like, they try. They really, really try. They really do. I couldn't get far into that, the Netflix show. They got a guy named Dr. Travis.

Yeah. Dr. Travis is the, technically, he's the handsome skeptic. Yeah. But he's now a believer. He was in a show from 2011 and 2012 called Rocket City Rednecks. Yeah. And that was about him, his father, his brother-in-law, his best friend, and his nephew setting off rockets.

Yeah, he's got a star power. He's got good hair. Blowing up moonshine distillery. Basically. But he's got good hair. He looks good. Well, they can tell the history of rocketry. The reason why we built this rocket, this goes back to the V2. Oh, wait, we can't talk about the V2. Never mind.

They're not going to be really. They're not, well, actually, but speaking of the V2, his father did build satellites at Wiley Rett Laboratories under Werner von Braun. Hey, hey. No one comes out clean. So he probably didn't. know quite a bit about the V2. But going back to Skim Walkers

at the Pentagon, Travis Taylor, he was the guy, maybe we can wrap up on this. He also knew the mysterious Axelrod. Yeah, Axelrod. He sings October rain. Yeah. No, how dare you?

He's an important man. I'm truly one of my single favorite February snow. I'm just sick of listening to my uncle, do these horrible G&R. This is one of my single favorite images from the Skinwalker Ranch book. I love this idea.

So according to George Knapp, now George Knapp, he does a good job of always being like, hey, I hear a lot of ridiculous things. I just report the shit. The first thing that him and Cole and Kellen heard got into a lot of trouble for, this is true when they were talking from Skinwalkers

at the Pentagon is the dino beavers. Beaver's the size of dinosaurs. That according to Nicole Keller her he saw. And so that was one thing he got a lot of shit for. But one of the other things that he got shit for was this story, which I love, which is he talked to a guy. He was a federal employee with Axel. A man by the name of Axelrod. Went by the name of Axelrod.

His name was an Axelrod. Now, according to her, so during the Bigelow era, the experienced phenomena inside of their home after they left, witnessed by his wife as well. She witnessed what could only be described as a wolf standing on its hind legs. in their backyard leading against a tree with its paws crossed across his chest. Smoking a cigarette. It's like got a fucking. Like it's a fucking 1950s greaser. Like I'm like a favorite.

Look at him brought over here. I lost the bones, bitch. Dude, but they talk about. But Axelrod is dropped by several different things. Axelrod is a guy's, but it's just a part of the mystery. We don't know what the fuck's happening. Yeah, Dr. Travis, he said he's made experiments with the scientific instruments in Axelrod's house. And this is actually interesting, is that there have been simultaneous events within a microsecond of each other,

taking place in Axelrod's house, Dr. Travis's house, and a house on Skimwalker Ranch. Okay. And many people who Dr. Travis knows have had blue orbs and other things in their home. And a neighbor of Axelrod, that was the guy who developed a very dangerous form of cancer right afterwards. It's a guy was just over at Axelrod's house. The blue orb flew through him and all of a sudden, fuck, I got cancer. It seems like it also attacks women.

It does. Like the wives back home. It attacks everyone. Yeah, just makes sure that knows that you shouldn't be in love if you like UFOs. Yeah. It attacks wives. It attacks children. It attacks anybody that's in the house, really.

So what does Natalie say about you trying to go to Skinwalker Ranch? She love it. She loves it. Oh, yeah. She wants to go. Yeah, of course. Oh, okay. Cool.

Oh, no. We want to go. Oh, no, we ain't afraid of no UFOs. I ain't afraid no ghost cancer. Yeah. I'm getting in there. I'm going to wear a fucking lead vest. I don't think that's going to help.

Why not? It's not a spray machine. We should go in. Lead vests. Lead hat. Right? Go in. Protect ourselves.

Against the vibes. I don't think it's going to work. Could be magnets. Yeah? Could be magnets? No. No. No.

They're saying there's natural magnet deposit. It's one of the big things in the TV show that they kind of looking for. And the one also thing that does happen in the TV show that they keep trying to do is that people get things happen to people who dig on the land. Yeah. So they have the one guy that they send out to go dig and then bad shit happens to him all the time. His magnet is in the ground. Every time I throw a magnet in the air, it goes right back to the ground. Yeah. It's something else.

Yeah, there's many guys. Yeah, Thomas Winterton, he's the guy who keeps digging. And he keeps having accidents and like he's got like this thing on his head. He's like got this fluid that keeps fucking like building up at a bump on his head. He keeps getting a drain. Anytime he talks about digging, the, the. fluid starts building up again. Like, it's just, it's like Skimwalker Ranch. It's just one of the weirdest places on Earth.

It's still weird. It's just weird. It's a weird place where weird shit happens. And that's the most update we can possibly do. The only thing I'll understand. The Utah trying. Yeah. It is interesting. It is. But it is, for me, it is so well covered.

It's a ball than a triangle. It is. It's a basin. But it's like, it's amazing to think that it's gotten so much coverage. This is extremely a secret. untrodden place for thousands of years. And now it's everywhere. Millions of people know about Skinwalker Ranch and the activity that happens in Skinwalker Ranch.

And still we know nothing. And I think that's, it's one thing that it shows is that we're, we're interested. And people want it to be real. They want it to be real. And it's hard to pin down. I think that's one of the main, what you were talking about is that it's hard because you're watching all the stuff. You want something to come out of it, but it's never going to give it to you.

Yeah. It's never going to ever, ever, ever, ever give it to you. It doesn't want you to have it. It seems like there's nothing there. It's because it's honestly, if it, I don't know. I know that it's, it is, makes total sense to say that there's nothing there. But it's more like it doesn't want you to have it. Whatever is there, it doesn't want you to have it and it's not yours to have.

Really stop putting cows there. No, man. That's like that's their dinner. I think we just don't know how to record it. We have no idea. I think there's absolutely something there. And people are probably yelling at us and saying that we're dumb or whatever already, but I, but I still, I, I, I'm not going to use a fucking, I'm not going to use a camera to take a picture of an atom, you know? It's like, it's not the right tool.

You know, it's like, cameras made out of Adams. There you go. But that's the thing is that we can use a, you know, like, I'm not going to take a camera to take a picture of bacteria. But I can use a microscope to take a picture of bacteria. And we had the, we had the ability to take pictures of people long before we had the ability to take pictures of bacteria. And I think we're just in that same. We're in that same technology, like, gap, weird gap.

So we need to be developing better cameras or different cameras. But we can't do that unless we spend the money to go do it, which requires us to waste $22 million of tax money in order to go and try to make something that might record something that would let them get more money. Maybe. Yep. Yeah.

There's a lot. You know, there's a lot going on here. But yes. I just believe God damn George Knapp. Yeah. I believe him. And the way he talked about it, I believe him. I believe that he doesn't want to go back.

I believe that he said that what he was coming up against was far, far bigger than when he is allowed to talk about. And that he also has private information that he can't share. But it's the kind of stuff that keeps his hair white. According to him. You tell me his hair can grow back to $1? That's enough. That's it. Thanks so much for listening.

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Goodbye. Hells it. Again. Hellnap. Yeah.