Last Podcast On The Left - Last Update on the Left - Episode 13 - Henry Lee Lucas Revisited - Part I

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

The boys revisit the story of Henry Lee Lucas, AKA “The Confession Killer,” whose infamous claim of killing over 250+ people is not only highly unlikely, but it’s also pretty easily disputable.�� For Live Shows, Merch, and More Visit: www.LastPodcastOnTheLeft.comKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Last Podcast on the Left ad-free, plus get Friday episodes a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That's when the cannibalism started. Last update on the left. Rolling, rolling, rolling. What? Rolling. When did you do the Henry Lee Lucas episode? 2015, actually, I'm looking right in here. Seven, almost...

Ten years ago. Yeah, nine years. A month from now. Wow. Nine years. So here we are. Nine years later. Are we ready?

Yeah. Are we ready? Yes. There is there. Nine long years. Nine years. Never get them back. Never getting back.

Never getting younger. Oldly getting older. I become a corpse to my own family. Become a corpse. To my own friends. Help me. Nine long years podcasting. Ain't never going to be the same.

Nine long years since we've covered this project. Nine years. Many years since we actually started this. Yeah, it's much longer than that. It's much longer. Right at my wife and I's first kiss. Was it the Henry Lee Lucas episode? Yeah.

I actually do remember recording one of the episodes of Henry Lee Lucas after one of our first dates, Natalie was staying inside of the living room, and I was doing the episode in the other room. Oh. Welcome to the last update on the left, ladies and gentlemen. That's the only romantic

story you're going to hear in connection to Henry Lee Lucas. One of the most disgusting killers to ever confess to many, many crimes. He made me horny. He made me horny. Do you ever think that he ever got a passionate kiss? Henry Lee Lucas?

From a corpse. I do think the old... How does that happen? You lay it on top of you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, tongue, fellow. I would imagine you'd have to wait until it was... It had been dead long enough for it to really get a bunch of fluids going. And then you flop it on top of you. And the more fluids you get, the more passionate the kiss is. Oh, passion fruit.

No. No. Welcome to the update of Henry Lerlouli. Lucas. And what do we know more of now? How full of shit he was. In back jam full of shit. Exactly what I was going to say. I've heard this guy's name a million times.

I can't believe this one pisses me off more than any of it. Yeah, right? This is so aggravated. So many people got away with murder. Yes. And we'll never get over the fact that he just, it's the sounds of Henry Lee Lucas drinking the milkshakes in the documentary. series. It's a lot.

The confession killer is what it was called. Yeah, I never want to see a man with a graveyard for a mouth smiling with a mouth full of vanilla milkshake. Because it's just that look of it. He's like, he-he-he-he-he-he-he-ha. This is good. Correction. Strawberry.

Oh, yeah. That's a lot about the strawberry is that looks like a girl had her monash in a nice wide, yeah. Oh, now, stick, period, juice inside. Yeah, I got that one, too. Henry Lee Lucas, for those of you who don't know this guy is, for many, many years, like Henry Louis Lucas, when you talked about, like, biggest body counts out of all the serial killers,

throughout the 80s and 90s, it was always Henry Lee Lucas. No one would ever top. No one ever top. Oh, but 100 plus is what people would always say. It would go up to 600, some people would say. Yes. At some points, but it has come out in recent years. And it was always rumored throughout.

Like, anytime, I think the book that we used at the time, I can't remember the two books we used. One of them is still one of my favorite true crime books ever, but the paperback that we used, the regular supermarket paperback, like those would allude to the possibility that he didn't kill as many as he says that he killed. But, I mean, true crime books, at least back in the 80s. and 90s, like they went for the most sensationalist, goryest story that you could possibly tell. And we love them. And honestly,

last podcast and left was a direct reaction to all of this material we had read all over the years about, like, and wanted to, and they had this tone and all had the same tone. And Henry Lee Lucas is such a great example of it. And just so you guys know, so we'll catch you up real quick, but all of you basically know who Henry Lee Lucas is, if you've gotten to this podcast already. He was,

He was an American serial killer. He was active in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They probably, I don't remember when he was arrested. He was arrested for the first time in 1959. That was the first thing. 1960 was the first, he committed his first murder in 1960. When was he in jail? He was in jail from 1960 until 1970.

Then he was again thrown in jail until about 1976. He claims that his most. active times were in the late 70s and the early 80s. Let's go into, let's just give a full refresher. Yes. Since it has been nine fucking years. Nine years. Yeah.

Nine years ago, I went into the studio. Nine years later, I came out. Married. Why am I like this? Why does it continue? So, like, after you and Natalie had sex for the first time, Yeah. Were you like laying in there and be like, so like, there's this guy. Henry Lee Lucas.

No. Yes. Probably. That was all of our first conversations. How do you think he got Carolina? So what? I've never not been like this. So I think you owe Henry Lee Lucas.

So thank you. Hey, Henry Lee Lucas. Hey, thanks for helping me get with my beautiful, beautiful wife. And wherever you are in fucking hell, I hope that you could still, I guess, hear us make love. Carolina didn't listen to an episode of last podcast until we moved in together. That was just a protector. Although we did have that, that is one of the first things that we did bond on was like her extreme conversation that we had about David Parker Wright. Yeah.

Yeah. About the toy box killer. Great. Who turns out. It's worse than this. Much worse conversation than this than I had with Natalie. Yeah. Far worse conversation.

Yeah. David Parker is one of the words. Yeah. Because this guy's basically just a liar. Yeah. Well, I mean, he did kill three people. Three people. Yeah. And it's weird to look at him and be like, not much. You know, because that's the 600.

Yeah, he expected. You said he was 600. Now it's three. So, all right. Continue to do the rundown, Freddie. Yeah. So he was born 1936. We talk a lot. Actually, I think Henry Lee Lucas may have been when we coined the term serial killer soup. Yes. When we talked about like there, with serial killers, there are certain factors that come into play that create a serial killer. real killer. And having a no-leg sex worker mother that gets dragged around in a cart is one of them.

Yeah, his father had no legs. I thought that she was. No, the dad had no legs. Yeah, the father had no legs. That's right. I always try to look for my similarity. But I was right. He was at the cart and he couldn't beat the mom because he didn't have any legs.

So he couldn't get at the mom. So she'd leave him behind in the cart. Well, no, what she would do is that she was a sex worker and she would bring customers home. and she would have sex in front of both her legless husband and her son, Henry Lee Lucas. Now, was that extra? Honestly, unfortunately, I can't complete the act, ma'am, unless your peg-legged husband is in the room. It could be less. I don't know. I think it's extra to, like, put him out in the back porch.

Oh, yeah, because all you hear is that, you done? You done? He was beat mercilessly. I mean, grew up in a dirt floor shack in the backwoods of Virginia. I mean, his siblings were farmed out to institutions, relatives, foster homes. Didn't get past fifth grade and famously had an IQ of about 87, which is around, which is the same IQ as actually it's a higher IQ than Gary Ridgeway. No, than Gary Ridgeway.

Oh, yes, yes. Gary Ridgeway is by far, which we are going to redo Gary. We are going to redo Gary Ridgeway. But Gary, Gary, he was not the brightest bulb in the pack. Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, who provably had around 80 murders? Truly one of the most prolific serial killers in history.

Yeah, I think only Samuel, at least as far as America goes, like, we don't hold a candle to the South American guy. No, no, no, no. South American guys have body counts in the hundreds. But that's because he was killed and killing six kids as a time. Doesn't count. Okay, that's like Sammy Sosa. Technically, there should be an asterisk next to a lot of those crimes.

You shouldn't be allowed to get him in a group. But Gary Ridgway, I think, his IQ is 83, which I think was the same as Forrest Gump. No, 75. Yeah, just two points above. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, education. Actually, that could have been Henry Lee Lucas's mother. Oh, yeah. What a gentle woman.

Yeah, but his father died of hypothermia in 1951 when he drunkenly fell asleep outside during a snowstorm. Yeah, you don't want to do it. do that because guess what you don't become Santa Claus. At 18, Lucas was sentenced to four years in prison. Started off as a burglar. It was proved to have committed a dozen burglaries

around Richmond, Virginia. Escapeed in 1957 because it was a lot easier to escape prison in 1957 than it is today. Oh, I bet. Especially if it wasn't like a, you're not in Attica or Alcatraz. You're literally like in some shitty, like local prison. You're in jail. Yeah.

I also just can't believe how little time everyone keeps getting for murder back in the day. Well, this is just four years. It's like they either shot you in the head or you're out in two years. Well, it depends on whether or not you did it. And I am a war. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is for burglaries.

You know, four years in prison for burglaries. It doesn't burglars. That's a, that's fine. That's a sentence. That's a legitimate sentence. Yeah. It got released in 1959. And within a year of being released, he had murdered his mother.

Yeah. Yeah. He had migrated from Virginia to Michigan to join. his sister Opel, but his mother kept calling and calling and calling and calling. And he's like, mama, I'm sick you keep the ties on me. All right? I'm a free man, mama.

I don't live with you no, boy. So she literally was just calling a bunch? She was calling him to say, like, come home, take care of me, take care of me. Come on, come on. I'll never, yeah, I'll always rue the day my mom learned to text. Because now I get like 4D guilted. Man, that was so much better for me. I could always text a no to my mom much easier than I can say it out loud.

See, I love saying no out loud. Well, so Henry Lucas's mother came for Christmas, immediately disapproved of Henry Lucas's fiancé, a woman named Stella. Yeah, Stella, because if you look at Henry Lee Lucas, he looks like this might be insulting to the man. But he's got John Kerry vibes. And also he... Who's John Kerry?

You remember? Swift boat. Oh, that John Kerry. He looks like if John Kerry fucked a hollowed out jack-o-lantern. Yeah. And they had a baby. But he's so tiny, too. Who?

Henry Lucas. Yeah, and John Kerry's very large. But I'm just saying, if you look at their faces, he's got Lincoln face. Their faces do actually look very similar. You know, Henry Lucas has the droopy eye, the same droopy eye that Eadkeen had. I feel like your insults are compliments. That's my evil. Holy fucking shit.

I forgot that he died in 2001. Yeah. Right before 9-11, fucker got to miss it. Damn, and he would have loved it. Oh, that makes me so sad. He would have loved 9-11. So Henry Lucas's mother,

while visiting Henry and demanding that he returned with her. Like, she stayed throughout the holidays. She stayed around until January 11th. That's when she struck Lucas over the head with a broom. He struck back. And then stabbed her in the neck with a knife. Yeah, got Mommy.

real bad and that was number one. And then he says, I guess after that, that kind of changed his whole brain where he just decided then kill anything that would be a quote unquote problem to him or, or then he got a bit of a taste for it. But can you take anything he said

seriously? No. No, absolutely not. But yeah, because everything he said after the fact is all just kind of gross. But he did, hey, he loved his child bride more than a lot of people love their child brides. He did, but let's wait. We're not quite to the child bride just, yeah. Thank you.

He was found, arrested, sentenced to 40 years in prison at Jackson State Penitentiary, unsuccessfully tried suicide many, many times. He did. Yeah. He was very emotional. Yes, he was a very emotional human being. Was transferred to a state hospital under which electric shock therapy, behavior therapy, and was on a lot of doses of antidepressants.

But after just 10 years in prison, they released the man who murdered his mother due to prison overcrowding. And I got a feeling there's like, guys who should have gotten out before him. Yeah. Like someone who stole a car? Yeah. Those guys. He'd been arrested for like having a joint.

Yeah. Bank fraud. No, be like, they probably were like, describe your mother. He's like, imagine a Wolverine if it raised you.

They're like, you're free, sir. They probably let him out because as we know, he's fucking good with cops. Well, he buddyed up later on. It's a weird relationship that he had with cops later on.

We'll talk about it because he, it's, He becomes childlike. I think in a way what you see is his lack of intelligence. Well, I think what you also see with Henry Lee Lucas, and it's interesting considering the direction that he went with his confessions at one point, is that what you reminds me of is the sorts of confessions that you got from children during the satanic panic. That's what I mean.

They're all, yep, that one do, yep. And we'll get to that here in a bit. After another stint in prison, he, of course, got out and immediately tried abducting a 15-year-old gunpoint. He was in prison, and that's where he met Audis Tool. Yeah, his John Lennon. Because I had to think, if I were to make them Beatles, I would say that he is Paul McCartney. Henry Lucas is the Paul McCartney. Sure.

Otis Tool is the John Lennon, and the child bride is Ringo. Yeah, and the sheriff was George Harrison. Do you know much about Otis Tool? seen pictures of this man? I watched the whole documentary today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking fucked up horrible looking lackey from Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You pretty much got it. He's got lazy

eyes. He huge cock. Yeah. Gage's all hell. Yeah, I was going to say, he kept looking at him like they fucking kiss all the time. Which is fine. Eddie? Which is told we probably should have done more of it. Guess what you did? What? You just found out something. Because they did fucking kiss.

A lot. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Now you know. Now you know what Otis Tool looks like and you know what Henry Lee Lucas looks like now imagine them fucking each other hardcore dude and that's because they ain't red shoe diaries man no no no

it's no shoe diaries this would be like how but you won't curl your front tail you know like it's stuff like that and they'd be like I don't know Henry I don't know if I'm ready to go yet well it's I don't know if they mentioned it in the

documentary, but it's suspected that Otis Tool was the one who murdered John Walsh's son. Really? Yeah, Otis Tool, quote unquote, created John Walsh, but then that turned into another, that's also a weird story. I don't know if it's real or not. It's a very strange story, but yeah, you know, John Walsh, America's

most long. They found his head. I was down in Florida when all this shit was going down. You were. You found the head? No, yeah, I was there. I was like, whoa, look at his fucking head. Whoa. The kid, like, six, seven? Whoa. Man, talk about it. Like, out of everyone,

John Walsh really capitalized on their child's murder. Yeah. More than anyone. Hey, Eric Clapton, buddy. Eric Clapton is already famous. But that is a good thing. But that gave him his fourth act. Yeah, that was a great son.

Beers in heaven. Yeah, I love it. I'm going to rewrite it for when my dad dies into beers in heaven. I'm going to sing that same exact song. Would you pay my tab if I saw you in heaven? Would you buy around if I saw you in heaven? If I saw you in heaven. So Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas, like, say whatever you want about him.

I do truly believe that these men were in love with each other. Yeah, they were special. They matched each other's freak. Yeah. Yeah. But they claimed later on that between the late 70s and early 80s, that they went on a killing spree in which they murdered basically anybody who would get in the car with them or anybody that they could kidnap or anybody that just happened to be in the general vicinity basically saying like it started with 100 then it went to 200 then went to 400 then it went to 600 then it went to 600. If anybody's ever seen Henry portrait of a serial killer it's kind of exactly like that.

It's a wandering state of constant murder rape and mayhem. Is that about Henry Lee Lucas? It is loosely based. It's loosely based on the idea of a serial killer like that, an opportunity killer, not somebody that is. So Henry Lee Lucas, if all of what he said was real, he was, you'd be considered a, like, because, you know, we have process and product killers, and you have people that plan and stock. BTK was someone who put a lot of time and energy into picking who he would kill. And, like, a lot of people do that, or Jeffrey Dahmer, like, they kind of figure out, like, a subset and how to get the people they kill.

Henry Lucas, an Otis Tool, if they are to be believed, killed everyone within sight. Yeah. Anybody that they could get their hands on. And there was no way that they'd ever have time for a date, which is honestly why they didn't last. It's like, you know, couples go through so much that we just were so busy in the day-to-day life that we don't just sit and just think, be like, hey, like, I love killing these hitchhikers with you. I just don't believe they would have a car that would run that well. And that's the thing is that they said that they would crisscross the country. and that's why they never got caught because they were so transient.

By the time a body was found in Colorado, they were already in Washington State, you know, and that they could, you know, cover, you know, thousands of miles in, like, a matter of days. Because we run on love. This hitchhack and murder and car chooses love. It was during this time that Lucas lived with Toole and with Toole's mother and Toul's niece preteen Becky Powell, the aforementioned child bride. See, because I feel like he went with Becky. So, like, Henry Lucas began a quote-unquote relationship with Becky the child.

And I think partially it had to do with almost in a way being like, you know, they're proper with Audits and I do. You know, so I think that's time for me to really settle down. I think he did actually say that at one point. Yeah. You know, Aldous, I love the way you plumb me. And I love the way you dug me. But honestly, when it come down that, I know we can't get married now of the Lord.

Right, so I gotta be with his child. Yeah. Apparently, his, Otis Tool's penis was disturbingly large. There's got to be a lot for a man to take. You know what, I can see it. Yes, I could see it too. Like the kind that doesn't get hard all the way. Yeah, big and loopy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a knee scrubber. You know when like a dog's got a leg that doesn't work? Yeah, yeah. But it's still attached. Yeah, I know that story. Whoa, it's like your dog's got four Otis Tool dicks. Isn't that nice?

Well, after Otis Tool's mother died, Henry Lee Lucas claims that the three of them, Otis Henry and Becky, the three of them started touring the country and killing anyone that they found. Yes. That's until they found 82-year-old Katie Rich, whose family quickly kicked them out

after accusing Lucas and Betty of writing checks from Rich's account. Yeah, that's a weird story. I forgot about that whole section of time where he's like living with the old. lady and they're all like shacking up and let's just say again not great tenants yeah and then they got picked up by like a pentecostal minister who was like totally cool with henry lee lucas married like being married to i think she was 13 yeah i think she was child yeah yeah yeah i mean that shit was happening back

that it was not a lot though you honestly not a lot i if you look at it across the board it's still pretty frowned upon yes well it depends on what part of the country but evident jerry lee lewis remember with Jerry Lee Lewis when he went to the UK and then they all fucking like he basically got kicked out of the UK because he showed up with his child bride. Yeah, but he was a world famous musician. We're talking about

fucking Henry Lee Lucas here. No one's paying attention to what Henry Lee Lucas is doing. We are. Now. Now. But there's, trust me, Virginia and that entire area of the world. I wonder what his opinion was on Megan Markle. I wonder

how he feels about Jojo Siwa. She probably wasn't alive when he died. But while Henry Lucas was living at this minister that's totally cool with all this shit, they had an apartment, Henry Lucas got a job as a roofer. Everything was fine then. Yeah, and it was good. They kind of lived like a weird commune at this abandoned chicken ranch. But then they felt homesick for Florida.

And Lucas cheerfully informed the minister that Becky jumped into a passing truck and left him. And Lucas continued living on the ranch. but no one ever heard from Becky Powell ever again. Yeah. A month after that, the old lady that Henry Lee Lucas was living with, Katie Rich, she disappeared. And authorities were, of course, led immediately to the weird drifter that had been accused of writing checks in her name just a few months earlier. I don't know why everybody seems to push it. Now I'm some kind of suspect in the death of my tribe who's not here anymore.

She moved on She got a job on stage She's working for NASA Yeah, I love my wife My child bride She's doing so well Yeah, she went off to child bride school To learn how to take it better

I thought he was I thought she was working for NASA I kill you And child bride school is just school And so on June 10th 1983 Lucas was arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm

And while in jail he began confessing. He wrote a letter to the sheriff. To whom it may concern, I, Henry Lee Lucas, to try to clear this matter up, I killed Kate Rich on September last year. I have tried to get help so long and no one will help.

I have killed for the past 10 years and no one will believe it. Why do you say? I love your tone for the voice. To whom it may concern. I, Henry Lee Lucas. I'm just going to try to clear this matter up. I did kill Kate Rich.

I was super sorry about it. He sounded like an AI narrative. I have killed for the past 10 years, and no one will believe it. Why do you think that he immediately confess? I actually do, at some point, I think that life sucked. I think confessing made him feel good. I think he felt, I don't think that Henry Lelukas is a serial killer in any way whatsoever. No, I think he's a dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, mean man.

I think murdering people made him feel extraordinarily guilty. I think he was extremely guilty that he had. killed this old lady who had been nice to him. It's just like that's such a it's like you know the story of the rattlesn you pick up the rattlesnake you know it's like it's just he an old lady was nice to him

and because she was nice to him he killed her and and fucked her corpse in a culvert I see I feel the guilty part you see I feel yeah it's weird because like when did the guilty part start it was like he killed her and then he mocked damn it why do you mind oh dress

Lipped off. Why don't it's killing her? Well, let me just... Well, she's still warm. Maybe you don't count as dead. Yeah. Let me just kind of squeeze them a little bit. Squeeze him.

A squeeze him and play with him a little bit. All right. Am I feeling guilty? Hey, no, there. Are we feeling guilty? Are you talking to him or yourself? I don't know. Let me feel around a little more.

Not guilty yet. Maybe certain. Maybe. No. I'm not doing this act out with you. No, I'm not. I'm not either. I don't know.

There's no one else to be. She's dead. I'm waiting for my improv. Who are we going to be the dirt? On which this corpse is being violated? You feel guilty? Oh, out of a sudden you were here. But after a couple of days, like he started.

feeling guilty about leaving his body behind. So he got, went, well, actually, I don't know if he started feeling guilty. I think he realized that someone was going to find the body eventually. So he took it back to his apartment at the chicken farm and burned her body in a stove over the course of two days. And then, after he admitted to that crime, he said he needed to get something else off his chest and admitted to killing the child bride, Becky Powell. He said they were arguing while trying to hitch a ride because she wanted to go back to Jacksonville. But he had a warrant out for his arrest in floor. Florida so he couldn't go back.

And they decided to sleep in an empty field off the road. After arguing that night, Becky hit Lucas on the side of the head. And he retaliated by stabbing Becky in the chest. He said, she sort of just sat there for a little bit and then just dropped over, you know? Yeah. Yeah, of course. And how horrible is it with him that she wanted to go back to Jacksonville? Yeah, she's choosing 1983 Jacksonville.

Ooh. Like, yeah. But yeah, or it's kiss Henry Lee Lucas again. I guess I think, do I drive to Jacksonville or do I look over at John Kerry sitting there in his black hole son filter? Just like, I remember. Lucas cut Becky into small pieces and stuffed her remains into pillowcases except her legs. And Lucas returned two weeks later to bury her remains. Once again, Henry Lucas was charged with murder.

and at his arraignment, Lucas asked the judge, what are we going to do about these other 100 women I kill? And he's just like, oh, stupid, fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. So it starts with this. It really was like the smartest thing he ever did his whole life. Yeah.

In a weird way. I mean, that's what we said about Gary Ridgeway so many years ago, is that like, yeah, Gary Ridgeway's really bad at IQ tests, but you know what he's really good at? Killing sex workers. Well, it just turns out, though, it's, unfortunately, It's how you do it. It's, and it's the method by which you do it.

And it's, he just, when you're doing things spur of the moment, it's extremely difficult to catch the guys when they're doing shit spur of the moment. When they're planning, you can begin to build an MO. You can begin to build how they look at victims. You can figure kind of how to catch them in sometimes, sometimes. Because you're like, oh, they're in this area. They're triangling around this, like kind of do it. Like, when Gary Ridgeway,

He was murdering people, like, in the real fashion. It's actually a very interesting take on this because technically Gary Ridgrey is the real Henry Lee Lucas. Like, so he did it. He was like a product killer. Like essentially, well, no, Gary Ridgrey was full process killer. So you like to strangle him to death. The only cared about was strangling sex workers. This is his whole life and detailing cars.

And apparently he was like the best detailer in all of Seattle. Yes. And so he would just, but it was the wide area that he did it with. And then the very simple way that he did it. And then I guess it's like how you stay hidden. It's weird. It was his simplicity. It was actually his sex workers because they just didn't properly.

And it was all pre-DNA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, with Gary Ridgway, that is somewhat the irony of it is that it was his stupidity and his simplicity that kept him from getting caught. Yeah. Where people who go a little bit more complicated with it leave a much larger trail behind. It's why Patrick's.

It tries to cover it up. Yeah. I honestly think like Patrick Swayze. He wasn't that bright, but he's an incredible performer. See, like the empty vessel. Yes. That you fill with water. Very similar.

Gary Ridgeway, Patrick Swayze, extremely similar. What we learned from Swayze is you can't dance your way out of cancer. Jesus Christ. It's the saddest thing that's been said on the show. There's a lot of people, honestly, I want to say that there is a thing called dance against cancer. I want to say that there's a whole thing that's saying, oh, dance. But it's like, it's more that the dance is a celebration of people. people give it money, but the dancing itself

is not going to cure the cancer. It's actually called, I'm a dancer against cancer. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. So he had dancer, not cancer. Yeah. On Blitzin and Cupid. Comment. We're going to take a deeper look at all this whole edit. I'm taking, we're going to have the pop of it open on this episode.

Really decide what we're keeping. And so, you're welcome, serious. You asked for this. Contractually obligated. So the Texas Rangers, they're basically the ones that we can blame for all of this bullshit. Yeah. So they kind of got, they, he sort of became a pet project for them. Yeah.

So Texas Rangers are not, they're, who don't, fuck, please, Marcus. Please, for the love of God. I cannot deal with the ire of the, of the. Texas marshals or the Texas Rangers. I just don't want I just want to be able to go through Texas. I want to be able to drive through Texas. I mean, we are definitely complicit. I know. They're very

complicit. And remember how we talked about, remember the Bonnie and Clyde story? Yes. And how much the Texas Rangers were complicit in that. Yes. And I think it was maybe the Ma Barker. No, it wasn't Maher Barker. But yeah, they were definitely complicit in like the Bonnie and Clyde story. They're famously a very corrupt institution. They're not crushing it. Yeah. They're not crushing it. That's my review. I mean, I'm sure that you're... Two stars. Two stars.

But they built a task force led by former Texas Rangers Williamson County Sheriff, Jim Boutwell, and retired Texas Ranger Bob Prince. And they started actively investigating up and down the I-35 interstate between Austin and Dallas. And so what they started doing is they started asking Henry Lee Lucas, hey, what about this murder? Did you commit this murder? And Henry go, yep, yep. Sure did. Yeah. And then the Texas strangers would go, check.

All right. And what about this murder? And he'd go, yep. And then he go, check mark. And they brought in another murder. And now this is also, I really feel like a lot of it happened with the minister, too. Well, the minister was a big part of it. Yeah.

Yeah, this woman. That's kind of really what got him in that, like, kind of manic confession mode. Because this lady came. because now I actually see this entirely different. That's what the nine years does. I see what you're saying was that he actually is a dim-witted. He is mean-spirited, but in his weird way, so people please, sir. He is.

Yeah. He actually had this thing where he felt real guilty. He has a criminal psychosis. Yes, he has no, he can't control his impulses. He is the impotomy of antisocial personality. Yes, he should be locked in a... What they eventually do is lock him in a fucking box until he dies. Yes, because he's bad at everything.

He's bad at life. He could have been a good waiter. Oh, you know, honestly, I've met a lot of sketchy waiters. A lot of sketchy waiters, but I still love them. I love each one of them. I don't know, man, you got to remember a lot when you're a waiter. That's why I couldn't be... I always got fired from waiter jobs because I couldn't remember anything.

Yeah, but he used to remember all the weird little details. He was making it up. Yeah, and he was also... Yeah, but that's the thing. And he was repeating back when other people... Exactly. And isn't that what a waiter does? Yeah, repeating back the things.

No, a waiter, they're the consigliary of the entire experience. They're coming in here, they're greeting, creating an atmosphere welcoming. You feel like, oh, I'm an invited to a party. And I'm cool for being here. And that's a person throwing the party, right? That's the waiter. He's throwing the party. And he's coming in here and he's trying to make me feel cool for being there, right?

Set in the scene, exploring, celebrating food, celebrating Epicurean interests. That's right. And what was the use of that? Well, let me get back to my original point. So he got, when he met the chaplain, I think that he... It's a woman named Clemmy, by the way. The jailhouse minister.

The nun, the nun. When he met this... The dead man walking lady. Yes, essentially. He felt, I think that, you know, this is a full backseat psychologist. He thought about the pastor that he fucked up and he fucked up his whole life with and stuff. Now he met this religious person that is treating him with respect and kindness that he has never had before.

And now he has never had before. And now he's willing to do whatever that woman tells him to do. She's treating him like a baby. She's cutting up his food. She's cutting his hair. He's never had a mom. And so she, in police interrogations, they specifically will key into stuff like that to fuck with you to get you to sort of respond. Like, they know, like, if you were like, there was one, I just watched recently where there was a big fat idiot that they were interrogating.

And the first thing, hey, hey, hey. But the first thing they asked him was like, do you want any cupcakes? You know, somebody just made a bunch of cupcakes. And so this guy came in, they brought him a bunch of cupcakes at the top and he's, like, this guy, he'd killed his family. And he's like eating the cupcakes.

And he's just being like, I forgot what he said. I think he said, like, Daddy likes him. Like, I forget what he said where he was like, and they're all sitting there watching like, oh, you like that, huh? Oh, yeah. And then they slowly butter you up to get you to talk.

This lady, maybe she wanted to fuck Henry Lee Lucas. I think she. Clemmy wanted to get that dug out? She was into him for sure. She had to be. I mean, I think to spend that much time with him. I think she got off on it. I think she got off on the conversion.

I mean, on like, let's turn this guy around. Like, this is a horrible killer. Like, it's like getting a win. We got one. We got one. We got a big win, a big conversion here. It's like making friends with a tiger. Yeah.

Yeah. And if you make friends with a tiger, then don't you feel very powerful? Exactly. Yeah. And so an arrangement was coordinated between Henry Lee Lucas, this nun named Clemy, Texas Ranger, Jim Boutwell, and Texas Ranger Bob Prince, so Lucas could cooperate and continue to talk. And Henry was like genuinely happy at jail. This was the happiest he ever was. This was the best time of his life.

Yeah. Walked around without handcuffs on. Chummy with the staff. Gets three squares. You know, you know, three squares to cot. You know, and he's happy as fuck. Oh, yeah, because he had a struggle just to get that before. And then also they're giving them special treatment too.

He's getting hamburgers and milk shakes and lots of cigarettes. Lots of fucking cigarettes. Like riding in the front seat of the car. That made me so crazy. Walking around with no fucking, he's like walking around with a cup of coffee and a cigarette. And no handcuffs like joking around with people. It's because he was doing. I was losing my mind.

It's because he was doing the police's jobs for them. Yeah. Because all of a sudden, once word got out that there was a guy that claimed. that claimed that he had murdered over 100 people or whatever we're at. At this point, he's saying, I'd murdered 100 people and I'd killed people in every corner of this country. Name a corner of this country and I killed someone there. But especially like Texas, Southwest, like basically the South, you know, from Florida to Texas. And so all these detectives who had all these cold cases started coming in and asking Henry Lee Lucas about these crimes.

and what they would do is they would show them photos, they would show them crime scenes, they'd show them little, they'd give them little things, and he'd repeat shit back to them, little by little, you know, like he would pull the information out of them without them really even knowing that he was doing it.

Because every time he got a gold star, every time he got like, hey, yay, you got a murder charge. They literally said he was a good guy. Yeah, they loved him. They loved him. Yeah, they'd shake him. his hand, the pat him on his back.

Thank you so much. You know, because these people, because these cold cases, like they haunt these fucking people. They haunt these cops. Of course, and the families. And a lot of pressures coming from the families to do something about the crime. But these aren't like big city

crimes. This isn't Dallas. This isn't Houston. Like this is... Zoned June or whatever. This is fucking Colorado City, Texas. You know, like this is, because my dad, I mean, I told this on the Henry Lee Lucas episode, is that my dad ended up in a restaurant with Henry Lee Lucas on one of these Johns. Oh, really?

Yeah. When we were living, when I was a kid, we lived in a town called Colorado City. There's just this small fucking town. And it was why? Because they would take Henry Lee Lucas out to like certain sites. And dad said that he was just sitting there having lunch one day and in walks Henry Lee Lucas and a couple of cops. Like hi. Hi.

And they just sit down. And of course, nothing came of it. But it's these small towns. So just like a few hundred people, a few thousand people were murder really. means something. We're like murder fucks up an entire community and these cops go crazy trying to solve it and so

they go to Henry Lee Lucas and he absolves them. Yes. He absolves them. These cops can go back to their hometown. They can talk to the family. They can say, hey, it was this Henry Lee Lucas guy. You know, we got him. We finally got him. Your daughter

can rest now. And Henry Lee Lucas, what did he get out of it? Well, he got out of his jail sale, he'd get strawberry milkshakes. He'd get cigarettes. He'd get steaks. Oh, yeah, dude. He got private fucking planes.

Yeah, he got to be, he got to get a technically life he never got before this. Yeah. Or he ever would have gotten. Ever would have gotten. He was treated like a legitimate celebrity. People, like, and also, I think people also discount, like, how good it feels to, let's just say he's not had a lot of positive validation. No.

Right. And so now he's getting seller. So he's like feeling like like, maybe I can give back. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is my way making everybody smile, you know. Meanwhile, like he's just a, uh, they haunted evil child man. The craziest thing, I didn't know this. Uh, and this is why we do the update show is that they wanted so many different samples from him, like saliva, fingerprints, hair.

they asked for so much of his pubic hair that he ran out and they had to wait for more to grow back. Just test it. I'm going to do a little bit more. Well, unfortunately, I'd like to give you more. But as you can see, I'm a bit of a Suzanne Summers downstairs. Shave to the Narts. Well, originally he talked. You guys need any more cum?

I was thinking about making some cum. If you guys need some cum, I'm going to say. Honestly. just because I was already doing it. I don't know if you need any spit or shit either because that's all going to kind of be in one cup then. Well, by February 1984, the task force had tied Henry Luce to 47 cases. And by May of the same year, that number rose to 107 and grew by another 49 by August in 1984. So this guy is being not charged with, but about over 150 murders.

they're saying like, yep, solved. That was Henry Lee. Yep. So what's up with these Rangers? Like, they have to be in on this. They have to know they're doing the wrong thing. The power of self-deception can be very strong. Well, also think about the optics of we've caught this super predator.

So not only, like, it's not that they're covering up the, I think they're, who knows about covering up crimes or whatever, but I think it's more like the more they attach to him too. Not only do they get these murders off the board, but also it bolsters up all these guys hanging out with this fucking crazy serial killer that they all caught. Right. So like the more they build up his roster of death and his standing, it raises their standing too.

It also raised Henry Lucas's standing because then he gets to portray himself as this evil mastermind serial killer. and that protects him in jail, like of later on down the fact, and it gives him power within jail. That's jail political power. I know, but it's all like, it just drives me crazy because he's so tiny. Yeah. He wouldn't have won all these fights, even if they were all just women. That's what, honest tool was there for, because Otis Tool was, what, like 6'5?

Yeah, Auditoul was a big, a fucking horrible. And he did, God knows what else Otis Tool did. Oh, he's the real fucking crew. But, not the Henry Lucas. Henry Lucas killed three people for. certain. And I actually do think it is more than the three people, but it is not hundreds of people.

I don't think it is. I think he killed the threat because the people that you look at, like, it's except for... Everything else had a reason that he killed. They all had like a distinct reason. Why he did it? Except for the old lady. The old lady didn't really have a reason. She probably asked him for rent. Yeah, something like... Probably at some point

just being like, I might have to call the police or like this is getting... You're weird. Because the other two murders was like, some a woman hit him and he responded by stabbing her. Well, that's also his story. Yeah. But yeah, that is his story. That's a story. That is true. That is true. But I think another big

thing about this with the Rangers is that it confirms a certain worldview that I think some of these people really enjoy subscribing to it. I mean, I know this from growing up in Texas. The Texas is, like, it's an evil place. There's a reason why...

It's the rush of America. I still like Texas. And I'm not saying that... I love Texas. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that Texans are evil. I'm saying Texas is an evil place. Because over the years, like, I would ask myself, like, why don't we cover more stories about Texas? Why don't we cover more Texas true crime? And the answer is that Texas true crime is fucking brutal and pointless.

Yeah, a lot of it's pretty fucking rough. Yeah. It's harsh. It's brutal. It's, like, it is a fucking, it is a cruel place, you know, and it always has been. You know, there was that famous quote is that, like, Like if I own Texas, I'd rent out Texas and live in hell. Because Texas is fucking, it can be, it's a very, very harsh place.

And I think people who, and I know people who live there, some people really enjoy that reputation. Oh, of course. They enjoy that reputation. And they like this idea that the world is a far worse place than it really is. Because there's a reason why they exist. And they're the line between chaos and order. Exactly. They like to have, they like the world to be in more evil place than it really is because it makes them bigger men. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's this idea that you've got, it's, you're way necessary. You're very strong and you're very big.

And of course, that became much larger when Henry Lee Lucas started talking about the hand of death. Now, hand of death is, we're just going to just straight up right here. It is absolutely the stupidest, fucking conspiracy theory on the face of the planet. I'm saying it right now. I'm sorry, Dave McGregor. Allen. I know you're sad. It's dumb. The guy... Whatever. Wherever. He's like, there are people out there that act as him. Yeah. I just, like, I think that he's, I think that it's all very stupid,

except I do believe more and more that there are other interconnected, connected people. But the idea that the CIA train Henry Lee Lucas, I just feel like, we trained Osama bin Laden. Yes, that's what we train. Yeah, he's like, come on. Well, the hand... All right, you think the kind of money that we put behind the CIA, we're going to get a

Henry Lee Lucas. Come on, guys. Well, the And a death was supposedly a cult that practiced human sacrifice. It's an outcropping of the satanic panic. But they worked alongside the CIA to provide children in order for them to get their proper testing subjects for the beginnings of M.K. Ultra. Sure, except it happened way after M.K.O.L. But it's because M.K. Alter never ended. And also, I feel like the CIA isn't going to get rid of a perfectly good sex worker.

What do you mean? Well, yeah, they'd say they'd take a live girl. I mean, it's one of those things where I think it's, this. This is around the time of the satanic panic. And I think Clemmy the Nunn was starting to be influenced by that sort of shit. Sure. And I think that Henry, I think her and Henry Lucas started ping ponging ideas and it got weirder and weirder and worse and worse because I think Clemmy was starting to look for reasons behind all this.

Because I don't think she could, even though none of it was real, I don't think she could wrap her head around the concept of a man. killing hundreds of women just cause. Well, the only thing that it could possibly be is being in league with Satan. And the idea that you're this monster, you're a literal monster. Yeah. Yes. And it's also the idea of, you know, this, all of the satanic panic shit was going on where everyone's talking about, you know, human sacrifices and there's all these devil-worshipping

cults all over the country. And, but the rational-minded people kept asking, it's like, okay, where are the bodies? Where's all the stuff? Where's the evidence? Where's the bodies? Where are the evidence? And then now you have Henry Lee Lucas and Otis Tool also joining in on this going, Hi!

Hi, me too! It was that. Whatever it says. Yeah, we know all about it. Yeah, and it's, we're just excited to talk. And I do think the idea that they're, it's just very, it's also in her mind, you could see being like, if I flip this evil Satanist, I'm the world's best, none. Yeah. Maybe they'll let me be a priest.

Yeah. I can have a hand at the little boy. Yeah. Then I'll get to suck the child. Pines. But, you know, Henry Lee Lucas, over the years, like, you know, there's been so many murders that have been attributed to him. Attributed to him. But then there's also been a lot of murders that he said I did that have since proved to be committed by other men.

Through DNA testing. It's only 20. was the number at the end of the documentary. It's insane. That's out of what, 200 or something. Yeah. They were trying to pin on it. But he got convicted for 11.

So he ended up going down for 11. They put a couple on him, but it's still, it was not the hundreds. The guy's got one is the most aggravating one of all of them. Yes. The trooper's kid who killed the store clerk. And then they were like, oh, you do this for us? Will you take the rap on this? And he just said, yes.

Of course, because he's like, he's like, he's the cops or his buddies. And they let the fucking get out. He said, he has a comment where he's like, the sheriff, he's been the narcissist man to me. He makes sure he takes care of me. And apparently he looked up to the sheriff. He said he was like my, he was my friend. He's not a police officer. And then he also said that he was kind of like his daddy. Yeah. And then the sheriff admitted to liking him. And the thing is, is that how are they not held accountable for this? It's because, I mean, such a huge fuck up. Yeah. I mean, what law are they breaking? That's the,

that's the problem. And it's like, what they got to keep being Texas Rangers. They're retired now. Yeah, dude. That's what allowed them. That's what allowed them. retire was that big get but they did it for like another what like 10 years after that I did it for a while I am unfortunately Eddie life's not fair I know I have no parents life is very difficult Eddie I hate to

I hate to break your heart yeah and that was actually there was even one one of the most famous murders in Lubbock you know where I went to college that was supposedly a Henry Lee Lucas murder but I actually found out like there was a whole thing with that murder where they exhumed the body like a year ago. And like the sister of the woman who was murdered, she became involved with this like true crime podcast and they ended up having a falling out.

It was like a massive New York Times magazine article about it that I didn't have time to get into. We should look at that. That's very interesting. Yeah. It's some weird shit. Yeah, the murder of Deborah Sue Agnew Williamson. And then there's this story. Where was it? The, then the orange socks was trying to, the identified orange socks was the Jane Doe. That was also attached to Henry Lee Lucas. Because they found out who it was eventually. Yeah. Deborah Jackson from Harris County. Yeah. Well, Orange Sox was supposedly the one that people pointed to. He was like, no, look, he's not lying.

Because he confessed to the murder. Yeah. And then he, like, knew a couple of details. And he said that I always left the socks on them when I, you know, has my calling card. Yeah. Which is not true. He didn't have a calling card.

Yeah, because he killed people with two by fours and ballpens. Whatever he had around. Yeah. And so Henry Lucas then apparently then in private said he didn't kill her. Yeah. which is, and then his stories in Jacksonville to check out because they went to go investigate and they found out he was nowhere near. Yeah, he was nowhere near where the murder would happen. Yeah, and they also have on tape the fucking dudes coercing him.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. And the weirdest thing about Henry Lee Lucas, and this is one of the ones that, you know, people point to, like the satanic panic people. Sure. And, of course, the ones that fold that into, like, government shit. Yeah. is that he was the only person.

Out of all the people that were killed when George W. Bush was governor of Texas, he was the only one whose death sentence was commuted. Yes. George W. Bush commuted his death sentence saying that the evidence for the Orange Sox murders was not compelling enough. Like he let Carla Faye Tucker dry. Yeah. It is weird. That is why we're like, but I think it's not been,

and it's because of the friends he made in the Texas. Rangers. I don't think that you have to look that far for the conspiracy. I don't think it's like they got some, it's not a satanic conspiracy. It's just straight up boys club will boys. George Bush was the GM of the Texas Rangers baseball team. Yep. That is true. And I'll never forget.

My buddy West said that he saw during the Carla Faye Tucker trial, like when she was being executed, he swears to this day that he saw a news reporter say Carla Tay fucker. Oh, wow. Really sad. God damn. Really, really sad. And that's how we're going to end today.

That's how we're going to end today. Thank you so much for listening to the last update on the left. Go check out. All our shows. If I saw. Brighter side. Give it a list in the last podcast network. Patreon.com slash the last podcast on the left is where you can find

video episodes of this show and all last podcast on the left shows. I tell me, Sean, do they go back under in heaven? What was that? Buck Hunter. They've got Buck Hunter. Buck Hunter. Buck Hunter. Thank you, Marcus.

Buck Hunter. Would you? And Ivan? Hey, son. You know, this is like the true, between Tool and him. It's like, it is where Texas meets Florida. It really is. It is.

Yeah. It really, really is. And which one's worse? I mean, you know, there's more space than Texas. Mm. You know. That is true. But they both got gators.

They both have. Gators, but only one has, honestly, I mean, you know. You know what I'll say, though? One's got universal. Florida, they got a sense of humor. They do. Texas, not big on a sense of humor. Texas is getting universal.

What? That's a different podcast. Texas is getting universal? Yeah, Dallas is getting a Universal Studios. I mean, six flags, say we will about Texas. Six flags over Texas is a fantastic. Except for one of those flags, I got to take a shot. Thank you for enjoying the last update on the

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