Last Podcast On The Left - Last Update on the Left - Episode 3 - JonBenét Ramsey

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

From the twisted comedic minds that brought you Last Podcast on the Left and Side Stories, Last Podcast Network proudly presents a brand new show exclusively available on Sirius XM, Last Update on the Left, a weekly show where the boys update you on some of your favorite Last Podcast topics and dive even deeper into the world of the macabre! This week we reopen one of the most mysterious cases in True Crime History… the unsolved murder of JonBenét Ramsey. For Live Shows, Merch, and More Visit: www.LastPodcastOnTheLeft.comKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Last Podcast on the Left ad-free, plus get Friday episodes a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. That's when the cannibalism started. Can I get an update, please? Hey, mister. Can I get a spare update, please? I'll give you an update.

You're fat again. The tumor, my belly is growing. Hey, everybody. This is last update. on the left. Whoa, what is that, Marcus? I'm Henry Zabrowski. I'm Marcus Parks.

And with us also is Ed Larson. Hello. I'm an idiot. Yep. So we have a new show. We have a third show for everybody. Wait a second. I'm doing a third show.

Yeah. All of us are doing a third show. Wow. Yeah. God. Yep. Time isn't real. No.

Yeah. Wow. We're doing a third show. Yeah. It is, it's really wonderful. It's called Last Update on the Left. What we're doing is because we've been doing the show since Zoomers were come. We are taking a look back at old topics, old ideas, and we'll give them a refresh.

Yep. We're going to be looking at what our takes were back then and what we were doing with those shows and what information was available at the time on these topics. and, you know, in the 10, 15 years since we've done some of these things, a lot of new shit's come out. In the 10, 15 years that we've done these things, not much new has come out, but our views on these subjects can sometimes change. So that's what the update show is all about. I don't really know much about it.

Yeah. It's good for me to learn. Yeah, he gets back in. Yeah. We're teaching ed about all this cool shit. So we're going to start the update show. We're going to give you guys a little bit of preview here. So the show is going to be a very important.

available only on the serious XM app. Don't worry. Last podcast on the left and side stories. Nothing changes there. Those shows are still absolutely free, but you can find this show on the serious XM app. Yeah. But for now, you're going to get the first one free.

Yeah. But then you get addicted, and then you got to come back around. And sometimes, well, maybe I ain't holding. And then you can get desperate. And then you can just start fucking being my butler. So we're going to start with an update on an old favorite, one of the most popular true crime stories in the history of man, the murder of John Bonairemsie.

I didn't do it. Neither did I. Now, who is that? J-O-H-N. Ben-Y. I love Ben-Y. Exactly. See, I do I get him in it.

John Bonae Ramsey. I hope she's okay. Let's go for it. So should I not begin this? With an act out of John Bonet Ramsey? How does it go? I don't remember. I don't remember his John Bonet Ramsey.

I don't, because we recorded this so incredibly long ago. See, the only reason why I remember is how many times I've received emails, people being really angry with my bit. Now, did you get more positive or more negative emails? Only negative. I remember. But at the same time, don't I like making people. angry. Why do I remember tea for two? Well, yes,

it was John Bonae Ramsey singing tea for two and then asking if they could make a sexual act upon God. Welcome to last update. That was from a long time ago, buddy. That was a long time ago. I'm Marcus Parks.

Living in 2024. Henry Zabrowski are you ready? You're not living in 2011 anymore. No, no, I've been dragged forward. I am here now, the only way I will play John Bonnet Ramsey is finally in a blind casting situation which should happen. I should be allowed

to play John Bonet Ramsey in a film. Yeah. Because I think if you don't allow me, you're shutting me down. That's cancel culture. I didn't know John Bonnet Ramsey was a lesbian because we all know that God is a woman.

Whoa. Interesting. You see, this is Hot takes. Wow. Hot takes. So we thought we were going to come out the gate and make us not make everybody mad.

Yeah. Yeah. It's too late. There's no way to do it. We're going to talk about John Bonae Ramsey again. Yeah. We had, well, I mean, I was about to say we had a lot of fun with our John Bonnet Ramsey series. But it was interesting.

There was a lot of interesting stuff in the John Bonnet Ramsey case, as there always is. I mean, the crazy thing about John Bonnet Ramsey, is that like the John Bonet Ramsey subreddit is still highly active every single day. Oh, yeah. It does not stop. People do not stop talking about this case. And we'll cover one of the latest updates that just came out about a month ago. Like 60 Minutes Australia did a whole thing with John Ramsey.

This shit refuses to die. It's kind of like the millennial version of D.B. Cooper. Yeah. In a way where there are so many theories. theories are still flying around because there has been no real, tangible new evidence that has come out. We don't know, except there's one piece that we will talk about that I do think is very, very interesting. But the one thing that all of the new information that has come out since the R series and the information that was available by the time, and it's convinced me even more so.

And this is controversial that the parents did not do it. I don't think necessarily that the Ramses did it. I think at this point, it's controversial if you think the Ramses did it. I know, no. If you think the Ramses did it, you're a fucking moron. No, that is untrue. It is still extremely mainstream to think that they did it. We will be immediately receive many emails saying that there's a difference between being cold, emotionally unavailable parents and being ones that murder their children.

Yes, that's a huge difference. Just that not, not, there isn't a single piece of evidence that points towards the Ramsey. Well, in fact, every. single piece of evidence points away from the Ramsey's. It's also, well, there are specifics, but then it seems to be who else would know that information that would allow that to be included, especially in the ransom. We're going to go through in some detail. It's such a sloppy murder to not have, not be wrapped up.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing about it is that, and we talk about it in the series. The OG series, yeah. Yeah, the OG series is the reason why it was not wrapped up and why it was because the Boulder Police Department was highly incompetent. A lot of things got fucked up in the investigation. Really, really fucked up. Well, let's go through, before we really get

into it, let's go, let's have like a bit of a refresh of what happened to John Bonae Ramsey. Yay! Oh, Marcus, what happened? Is she okay? No, Marcus. Maybe this time the ending could be better. She grew up and became

Katie Perry. Oh! Well, actually, we will get to that at the end. That was a very real thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the body of six-year-old John Bonnet Ramsey was discovered by her father in the basement of the Ramsey home on the... Well, okay, actually, I should do this. Maybe go a little true crime voicing. Please.

The body of six-year-old John Bonnet Ramsey was discovered by her father in the basement of the Ramsey home on the afternoon of December 26, 1996. Her body was left beaten, strangled, and sexually assaulted. John Bonnet's mother, Patsy, realized her daughter was missing after finding a ransom note on the... the kitchen staircase demanding $118,000. It was unusually long and presumed to be staged after the FBI determined the only fingerprints were from Patty and other officers. Jambanay's father, John, pointed out that money was the exact amount he received as a Christmas bonus.

Oh, what a wonderful little this must be a gift list left by curious young child. Oh, fat cats. I don't have $180,000. I don't know what I would do about this. Oh, down to the basement. Huh. Holy shit. It's not me.

Santa doesn't have a dick. There is a theory that Santa Claus did it. I have heard about this. From who? But if it was in the casting, John Bonnet? You heard it from Hanukkah Harry. He's like, I tell you what, that Chris Kringles, a son of a bitch. Patsy called the police at 5 a.m. on December 26th.

Two police officers responded to the Ramsey House within three minutes. The police did not find any sign of forced entry. John made immediate plans to coordinate the ransom payments, while forensics swept the house. John Bona's bedroom was the only room in the house cordoned off to prevent contamination of evidence. The police determined this was a kidnapping case. Meanwhile, friends, family, victims advocates, and the family's minister, all came to the house to pay their respects. One friend even cleaned up the kitchen and possibly destroyed evidence.

Yeah, there was a lot of problems. A ton of problems. An experienced investigators destroyed a lot of evidence. There was evidence that was left of the scene that was not really tied into anything because we now know that there was a window with scuff marks and there was luggage that was left out. There was a lot of something. And then her body was also horribly mutilated and she was sexually assaulted.

I mean, you're getting way, you're getting way ahead of us here. Oh, is it bad? Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be talking about all of the mutilations. I mean, come on. Like, there's one thing to just say, like, her body was super mutilated, but come on, you know? Do it. Yeah, what happened to her? The autopsy revealed John Bonae was killed by strangulation and a skull fracture, although no semen was found.

There was a vaginal injury. The paintbrush was used to strangle her. The bristle end of the paintbrush was discovered amongst Patty's art supplies. They found pineapple in her stomach contents. John and Patsy both claimed they didn't feed John Bonae pineapple Christmas evening. See, that's better than just saying she was drag on, she was mutilated. I didn't know the pineapple thing.

The pineapple thing does come up and it does hurt people later on. Yeah, well, that's the thing. they didn't actually find the body until 1 p.m. Yeah. That's when John and his friend Fleet White swept the house to see if anything seemed a miss. They were kind of just giving John something to do. Yeah. Like he's just kind of milling around.

It's like, all right, just go check all the rooms top to bottom. And then that's when they found John Bonnet. Her mouth was covered in duct tape. Her wrist and neck were bound by a nylon cord and a paintbrush. And her torso was covered in a white blanket. And the police also failed to secure even that crime. They failed to secure even the crime scene where the body was found because John picked up the body and carried it upstairs. And the cops didn't stop him.

They didn't say anything like, no, no, no, this is a crime scene. Like, it was completely fucked. That's the reason why, like, that's why this crime, while it was so sloppy, has still never been solved. Probably never will be solved. Didn't they fuck up to with like footprints outside and they were like they were, they didn't carding off the front lawn and there was snow. so we couldn't figure out whose footprints were whose. They just said, like, oh, there were no footprints leading to and from the house. But that was just to kind of cover their own ass because somebody, like, that's because somebody had to have left and returned to the house at some point because all, like the stun gun that was used to shocker was never found anywhere.

Well, that's a new revelation. That's brand new. That's not brand new. Actually, we talked about it in our series. I thought that the stun gun mark was, like, just recently confirmed. firm to be a stun gun mark. Bill James talked about it in his book, Popular Crime. We talked about it. Like, that's been, the stun gun

has been around for a long time. Yeah, because also, stun gun technology wasn't really new. Like, it wasn't, how do you put it? It hasn't been fully modernized. So it was, like, it was kind of very, very specific to see that it was a stun gun mark on her body. How much of a pussy is this murderer? That is a stun gun, a little girl before he bludgeon.

Well, what it is, it's stunning her. Like, the theory is that he, stunned her in her bed. Hey, you keep saying he. It could be a woman. Didn't they find male DNA? No, no, Simmons. No, they did find male underneath her fingernails. Oh, oh, no. Yeah, they found male DNA

under her fingernails. But again, didn't match the father, didn't match the mother, didn't match the brother. Match nobody. That, I mean, that's the thing. Like, the FBI, like, ruled that Ramsey's out within, like, a few days. Like, it was the Boulder Police Department's like, no, it's the parents. No, it's the parents. But you don't understand. That's because her father was creating the computer program that helped plan 9-11.

I remember. And so she got cut, he got cut out because he bought the judges to have them not look into the case. I remember. And that it happens all the time. And it's not a difficult process. And certainly you're not watching the former president of the United States of America struggle with the own judges he hired.

And there's, you know, for a fact that it's so easy to flip them. Mm-hmm. Yes, indeed. But, you know, that's what we. Like, that's basically what we know. And then there was a, you know, the ransom note was very long. They said it was talking about fat cats. Yeah, talking about fat cats.

It was signed SBTC, you know, which nobody has ever really figured out what SBTC means. It's, you know, and the biggest thing about it. Single boy titty committee. Just thinking. Just spitball in here. And, you know, of course the big thing is that John Benny Ramsey was a child pageant star. Yeah, it was gross. She'd won a ton of prizes.

Like, she was, like, the biggest child. She was basically the biggest child pageant star in America at the time. She was the goat while she was still a kid. Go to. Eddietoons. Etitunes.com. Like, any time, if you really want to think her, if you want to think her, if you want to think it. If you want one that you have to stop for a second.

One that you can roll around while you're thinking about the details of the John Bonnet Ramsey. Murder case. Eddietunes.com is where you can go to book this modern genius. Even more of that. I got a question about her. Do you think her body ever left the property? No. She was never actually kidnapped.

No. So what's the purpose of the note? I have an idea, but we'll get to it. Yeah. Well, let's go through some of the suspects that we didn't cover in. our John Bonnet Ramsey series, starting with Bill McReynolds. Police sources never considered Bill McReynolds or his wife, Janet, serious suspects. But Patsy and John referred to him Bill McReynolds as a suspect in their book, The Death of Innocence.

Now, who was he? He was the guy who was hired to play Santa Claus. Oh, he was Santa Claus. It is not Santa Claus. He would never kill a child. You never get back at all these children who force him to work. All these precious Christian children each December forcing me to work. When I got here, my suit was white.

Well, Bill had been hired. He was a retired University of Colorado Journalism Professor. Apparently, a very sweet man who just played, he hired himself. That was kind of his retirement job, hiring himself out to be Santa Claus. Guilty! The man's guilty. Patsy hired him to play Santa Claus at their Christmas parties in 1994, 1995, and 1996, which was the year that John Bonnet was killed, because John Bonnet was killed right around Christmas. It was Christmas Eve that she was killed.

26th. That was Christmas night. It's Christmas night, the 25th going into the 26th. I believe. Yeah, because the Ramses had a holiday party on December 23rd. And, of course, he also, Bill McGrindle. had a little bit of a connection to John Bonnet Ramsey. He said that she gave him a vial of glitter gold

on Christmas one year, and that no child had ever given him a gift will be in Santa. So he took the glitter with him to this heart operation. I don't... That's nice. That's nice.

Because it's like it's nice from a little girl. Every one of these men's description of John Bonnet Ramsey makes me like upset. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't know how to put this. Like, I love our friend's kids.

Yeah. But I don't see them. You know, like, I kind of see little blubs. Well, all of our friends' kids are very young. Sure. They're all toddled. Like, they're just now starting to get personality. Yes.

But I'm just saying that, like, when I look at children, I don't like register children. No. Right. I don't think of children. I just know that I can't smoke weed too close. Yes. That's where I've been asked to do by society.

Yeah. I know I have to watch my step. But this man is describing. a nine-year-old as this is when she's six with a pensive almost retiring demeanor and an angelic glow

is she's fucking like Charlie's Darren he's a man for a little girl she is she's a champion 12 times over she is a champion so you're gonna be like you know this kid's sexy enough for the national stage

we got to throw her out there so that I can imagine what she's like when she's adult. No, you gotta think, oh, you gotta think of, like, saying it like

Santa Claus. Oh, a pensive, almost retiring demeanor with an angelic glow. Yeah, but that's what you say

about a town dentist. Also, I'm not bringing glitter to a heart operation. That is, they didn't even try to put glitter

to go fucking bedroom. You want to be like, be like, oh my God, his aorta is fabulous. Well, this

guy was at the Ramsey home for their holiday party on December 23rd. That is why he was questioned for the first time because he was one of the many people in and out of the Ramsey home in the days leading up to John Bonnet's death. I hate to tell you this, okay? I know you guys all think I did this,

me being Santa Claus, but what if I told you? I couldn't possibly have done this because unfortunately I am gay. If they would have found her in the chimney, they'd be like covered in cold. Yeah, it'd get like reindeer for Honor, yeah.

Well, an original... It'd be typical. And Christmas wouldn't be the same, would he? Live from your grave. Well, an original prosecutor on the case told CNN that Bill McReynolds gave John Bonnet a card that year with a message saying, you will receive a special gift after Christmas. I just can't do a fat guy voice. I'm not fat.

Yeah, yes. No, it's not bad, but it's... You got a game more weight around the throat. Oh, yeah, that's right. My throat's too, skittling. You will receive a special gift after Christmas. Let me try it like this. You will receive a special gift after Christmas.

You want to really get into the bees. The bees is where the word crowd. Let me show you. Here's my fat man voice. Hey, Marcus. He did it to himself. He did it. He did it.

He said a good roaster can roast himself. In matter of fact, he roast himself first. Each morning. That's right. That's right. My nuts. Well, there was also the fact that his wife, Janet, had written a play with eerie similarities to the case. The plot revolved around the real-life murder of a 16-year-old girl from Indianapolis,

who was molested and tortured before being left dead in a basement. So it was like a farce or a musical? The McRill's family also had a tragedy on December 26, but 22 years earlier in 1974. when their daughter and her friend were kidnapped and the daughter witnessed her friend be sexually assaulted. Jesus Christ. No one was ever charged for the crimes. Could be that person. Yeah.

The McReynolds told police that they were extra sensitive to the nature of this crime due to what happened to their daughter. Yeah, it sounds like she wrote the play about what happened to their daughter. I think she'd just try to deal with it. Yeah. People try to deal with a different way. Yeah, I'm not saying in a bad way. I'm just saying like, yeah, that's why she wrote that plaque. It's not about killing John Bonae Rams.

No, it's about what happened to their fucking family. I think so. The couple gave Hanrod. writing and hair samples to the police, never formally linked to the murder, but they got enough shit, they had to deal with enough bullshit, they fucking moved to Cape Cod. Oh, yeah, sure. So they could just end, you know, Bill McReynolds died of a heart attack in September 2002. Now he can go up to heaven and meet the real Santa.

A weird, old Greek man, no, Nicholas. You know, that I believe he, like, crawled out of the, like, the gut of a deer or so. You know what I mean? You know those old, like, timing? style like miracles Yule man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me more little people. Well, so, okay, no, McReynolds,

not a suspect. Not a suspect. But glad we spent that time. Yeah. But there's Candy cane man. Who sounds very much like a creepy Candy cane man. Candy cane man. I'm candy cane man. This suspect took one of the decorative candy canes that lined the front walkway at the Ramsey's house

the night of the murder. He removed it from their yard a week after the murderer, quote, Because it was there. Oh, like Mount Everest. Yeah. I mean, we used to do that. We used to steal people's lawn stuff around Christmas time. Yeah, I mean, a little girl was raped to murder in the house, but yeah.

You don't want to do it all the time. Last thing they want to do is see candy canes. It just reminds them of their little girl. I'm helping them out. I don't know. I think with honestly, Patsy Ramsey is a very strange woman, so I do think that she might have been like, the candy can's gone. Like, she might be that style of like,

There was supposed to be 27 candy cans. Now that's only 26. How much else are we supposed to lose? What else that can happen at Christmas? Again, a very strange woman, but not a murderer. I must change my sweater. All the police officers are here. Yeah.

Like Jane Curtin and cone heads. However, it turns out some of the candy canes were missing on December 26th when John Bonnet's body was found. The investigators believe the killer or killers could have taken them as a souvenir of sorts, so they turned their attention to their man who also once admitted to having an obsession with John Bonnet and built a shrine to her that he now keeps on his laptop. I'm going to say the John Bonnet Ramsey Shrine seems to be a thing that keeps popping up, and it's kind of rough. It's really common.

It seems to be a lot of these guys. It's disturbingly common. Yeah, and I do see why, if soon as I know that you have a John Bonnet Ramsey Shrine, like you do end up on the list of subjects. Oh, without doubt. You're going to be on that list. You're going to be questioned. Yes, someone's going to come to look at you because, again, it's just hard to like,

if she had a TV show, we can maybe talk about it. Like if she'd put on an album. You know what I mean? But you can't just, how do you put it? Make a full-time stand over a local child's pageant winner. Yeah. She never knew how famous she got. You know, she would have been so happy.

She would have met a man. binds? Yeah. Nope, but this man voluntarily provided a DNA sample and was cleared when it didn't match the samples found underneath John Bonnet's fingernail. He aggressively offered a DNA sample, which I did not like. I'm

Peyton the police department with my DNA. Oh, what you want? Hey, listen, though, do you want some from today or from last week? Because I save each droplet of cum. Every time I think of John Bonnet Ramsey, I try to save each droplet of cum, I express even thinking

about her, just so that maybe one day if I could bring her bones back to life, I can put a child inside of her. Is that enough? Is that, am I being detained? Not guilty. Well, the big, like, to do. I wish I was guilty.

I wish it was me. Don't you wish? God, what it would have been like to do it. So excited, I wish I could have been there. Well, the big to do when it came to time. Romney, Ramsey suspects. I wish you was sweet.

I, ah, my tree roll. The big to-do game in 2016, when Burke Ramsey, John Bonnet's older brother, he was the one who was nine at the time, right? Yes. Yeah, he was nine. He was nine. He went on the Dr. Phil show and spoke about his sister's disappearance for the very first time. and his appearance on the show, he was again weird. Yeah.

Like he was a weird guy. Yeah, because he was smiling a little bit too much for people's liking. And of course, they all started pointing at her. He did it, he did it. The most popular theory that Burke did it is more or less that he got up for a midnight snack of pineapple. And when John Bonnet heard him, she got up, followed him to the kitchen. She stole some of his pineapple. She had an undigested pineapple in her stomach when she died.

So he lost his temper. hit John Bonnet over the head with a flashlight. The family panicked, and John and Patty staged the scene to make it look like a stranger broke into the home, and then they wrote the note, and they called the 911, and that's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Yes, and they say, apparently if you listen to the 911 call, the original one is that you hear John saying, we're not speaking to you, Patsy, saying, what did you do while Berker's replying, what did you find?

I just think it sounds like the normal chaos of a family finding that their young daughter is dead in their basement. It's missing. Yeah. Yeah, but still, I think that that's... You're frantic. Yeah. The day after Christmas, your child is missing. Yeah.

You're freaking out. Yeah, you just found a ransom note. Yes. Also, I just saw casting John Bonnet and they're like, could a nine-year-old boy really crackle girls skull open with a maglight flashlight? And then they hired all these nine-year-old boys to crack watermelons open with them with them. With a maglight, and it's just immediately, bam, bam, bam, bam. It's just like, holy shit. But also, a human head is much tougher than a watermelon.

Is it six-year-olds had tougher than a watermelon? Maybe not. Let's go find out. Excuse me, I'm just going to go down the street. There's a child, you see, we have that dance school. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, let me go find out. I, you know, this is the issue is that this is one of those where I'm just,

immediately like I can't even ingest this area. It's just so fucking dumb. They point towards Burke had Shadden his sister's bed and they had some conflicts and he had how it was sort of a violent outburst of burst against her once before. I don't see

I'm now, you know maybe what it is it's hard, maybe I can't always extrapolate but I've seen a lot of police investigation footage. I've seen a lot of it and the concept and from what I've read my years are reading true crime.

The concept of parents covering for one child is extremely rare. I don't... For the murder of another child from within the family. Rare, I can't name a single fucking example. I'm being fair. I'm saying that I've very, I've not really hurt, besides, unless you're the murdick family. Unless you're literally a crime family.

Like the Murdick family was a crime is now, will be known in history as a crime family. Yes. You know, like Lori Vallow, Chad Daybilt. That's a crime family now. That is a thing that they are committing. They're doing all of this. But even then the Murdox weren't like, you know, it's fucking insane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like one of those things. It's just varied. It's outliers. Yeah. And so the idea of someone covering for their kid, to me, does it necessarily make, it just doesn't make sense. I don't really understand why you would do that when you already, because it's like

the two kids are gone, you're just going to get blamed yourself. You're going to be a whole, it's going to be a whole thing. But it's, the evidence just isn't there. And also, why keep the child, if you're going to do that, why keep the child in the house? She also didn't die from the head wounds. The head wound is not how she died. She died from the strangulation. So that is one thing.

They said they didn't discover the head wound until after, like, they had lifted her body and they moved it. So it wasn't even that notice. It was a head wound, but it wasn't like smashing a water melon with a mag light. And it would probably be a lot more of a mess if a nine-year-old did it. Yes. You know. Yeah. That's what I think.

And again, my opinion. But the thing. come back with that is that it occurred in the kitchen. And remember the family, like the family friends had cleaned up the kitchen accidentally. Clean up all that. So all that evidence is gone. And then the idea that they, like, so Burke is nine years old. So Burke is nine.

He's going to kill his little sister. Like it just doesn't make any sense that you would go through all of the, especially if you're going to fake it. If you are going to fake it and cover up for your kid. So then you're going to go ahead. and sexually molest your dead daughter's corpse. Right? Like, might be hard language.

But if you're going to go ahead and do that, right? Like, that's a whole, that's insane. And then you are now going to write a note that then with the number on it that points to you. I still think that all of this is a fucking, this is all from the outside. I absolutely. Oh, it's, of course, all from the outside. Oh, he's also, yeah, of course he was weird. Of course he reacted weirdly after the fact.

Of course he was, uh, he didn't, he made him not have disliked his, he might have disliked his sister. He was nine. You know, like he said that he drew a bunch of pictures of the family without John Bonae M's in it. He was probably like, he probably got sick of her. She probably got all of the attention. Of course she got all the attention. You know, like she got all stuff. So in that way, like, yeah, maybe we're building more of like a case, but not for a nine-year-old, not for like normal kids.

That's all that shit's totally normal. Yes. You used to torture Jackie. You didn't kill her. Jackie was the physical one. she was the one that used to hurt me and then I could hurt and then I'd hurt back

and then my mom would come in and then she's not crying so fast but then she's not crying she's not crying I was stuck didn't you like pour like milk on your chest and shake your breast at her or something

that was when we were getting along yeah that was in the the knight we used to do that the man of the night yeah king of the night king of the night yeah because he used to put my homecoming king crown on

and used to come in and pour milk cold over my chest And that made you king of the night Yeah Yeah Well, what's wrong, man? Well, now that we've gone through those old suspects Let's go through some of the newer ones

That have come up since we recorded our episode Did we talk about the housekeeper last time? I don't think we talked about the housekeeper at all last time I didn't in the notes We have to talk about the housekeeper We have to talk about the housekeeper. We have to talk about. You go ahead and go for the housekeeper.

You take the lead on this. So one of the biggest issues, I think one of the biggest, I think, red flags in here. So there is information in that. So we brought up the ransom note. So this ransom note was written. We know that there was a couple, quote unquote, like scrap draft ransom notes that were written and were found in the garbage. We know that the person who was asking for ransom was asking for a number that matched John Ramsey's Christmas bonus. 118,000.

So they saw it. They saw that amount of money. And so there was some tie-in to their housekeeper. So another housekeeper who did technically sue and won a defamation lawsuit because she was named in the book in the death of innocence. Her name was Linda Hoffman Pugh. She was deemed a suspect because the statements being made by the police about her, first of just asking for a loan. The night after the murder, the police showed up at Hoffman Pugh's house and demanded that she write the number 180,000 on a piece of paper and then went to go get all the DNA to try to sort her out, right?

So she did not appear in the DNA that was underneath John Benny Ramsey's fingernails. She said that one, her husband and Patsy boats are like the housekeepers, the housekeeper, like, try to throw Patsy under the bus. So essentially trying to say that Patsy had multiple personalities. Where Patsy is just a run-of-the-mill, kind of like rich aggravating. aggravating woman. Yeah. Right. I think you can maybe see that, right?

But it's very interesting is that Linda Hoffman Pugh had called Patsy a couple of days before Christmas. So she said her sister, who was her landlord, was going to evict her. And she didn't come up with her past due rent. She asked Patsy if she could borrow $2,500. Patsy consoled Linda and agreed to lend her the money. In fact, Patsy intended to leave a check for Linda on the kitchen counter before leaving for the Michigan trip, which they left when they came back, right?

Which is what all this happened after they came back. Linda would let herself in the house and pick it up while they were gone for the holidays. And she would say weird stuff. Should Linda remark one time, John Bonnet's so pretty? Aren't you afraid that someone might kidnap her? Which is like a fun thing. My mother used to say that kind of stuff all the time. Yeah, I know.

No, it's just fine. That's just awful. That's 90s talk, like fear that everyone's getting kidnapped. Yes. So they got her out of there. So the theory is that Lindem Hoffman Pew led John Bonnet

into their basement. Right? This is possible. What if using pineapple not much like she is a dog? Using pineapple. Using pineapple like, yeah. But probably honestly, probably feeding her pineapple and bringing

her down because sounds like it's that thing that she really liked. Right? An attempt to trick her employers from to leaving her money for ransom. So maybe. So there's some evidence pointing towards. There could possibly be two people that have come into this house. So what if this housekeeper

comes that night lets people into the house to quote unquote kidnap John Bonae Ramsey They stun gun the little girl They attempt to bring her down She brings them downstairs They stun gun the little girl

They attempt to do it They kill the little girl in the process They then have to figure out What to do with the body This is why the piece of luggage was left out That's why there's a scuff on the window It's because they either came in Probably came in through the window

And then tried to put the body into the suitcase, couldn't figure it out. And that's why there's also the effect. They were all trying to figure out what to do. This is why we always started playing with a vagina? Yeah. No. No.

Let me get in there. Come on. Trying to get a suit? No, I'm just saying that. No, but this woman has already sued someone for destination. No, not her. I'm saying there are two other people that were involved in this. So three total.

Yes. And they came in to do the job. to try to extract the money. Like it was all just supposed to be kidnapping and ransom. Something went wrong. And, you know, what we talk about,

if you're going to hire two guys to kidnap, like, I bet you, there's a little bit of a chance that one of them might have other predilections and that might go a little too far in the room while you're dealing with something

and then now you have to deal with it. I don't, that, what? No. So he's going to hire someone and this guy's just going to be like, you know, I just can't help myself.

I've got to molest this. little girl right now. You know what's funny? Yes. I think that's exactly what's happening. And then what? They send the housekeeper up to write the note? Yes.

And because she knows the, she knows, it's 85% match. It's just a theory. On the handwriting to Patsy? Well, you know, it's close. Well, the handwriting analysis is suspect. It's all over the place. It's all over the place. Like, I've seen, I've seen people claim that the handwriting matches like four different

people. That was something that we talked about in the alternative of that it would like match to Patsy to 85%, but apparently the people who you, like, they use some sort of like new technique that wasn't quite proven yet to match the handwriting and it wasn't necessarily a, like, it's all muddled. It's like everything in this fucking case. Everything is muddled because they say that it matches like other people whose DNA doesn't match what was found underneath her fingernails. It's just a fucking, it's a mess.

The whole thing is an absolute fucking mess. you want to get some new suspects? Yeah, well that was like, yeah, that's one theory. So you think the housekeeper did it? No, I don't think anything. I legitimately do see. The housekeeper theory is a theory that people put forth. Yes, it is a theory.

Yeah, it is a theory. If you even remotely knew them, you're a suspect, right? Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the absolute truth. Yeah, because someone with inside knowledge made this happen. Maybe. Well, I think that that's the reason why.

there was a specific amount, the number. $118,000 is too weird. That is the thing that makes it all, you wonder what the fuck happened. How do they know that specific number? Well, it would point towards somebody at least being in the house beforehand because there was a pay stuff

in the house that said $118,000. Yeah, so it could have been somebody who's there all night, somebody's just rolling around. Yeah, so that doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is there for an inside, that somebody knew the Ramsey's beforehand. It could have been somebody who wandered into the house, during the Christmas party and saw the pay stub.

It could have been somebody who was rummaging around the house while everyone is asleep and saw the caterer. Caterer. Could be the caterer. Could be fucking anybody. Never blame the caterer. How else they get all that pineapple and boulder around Christmas? No, the caterer is how you get your fucking good drugs. Live from North Korea. Let's start with Glenn Meyer.

Glenn Meyer's ex-wife Charlotte Hay said, quote, I believe my husband killed John Bonnet. I knew he was capable of it. Cool. So you guys got on well. Glymire lived in the basement of John Bonnet's now deceased elderly babysitters, Joe and Betty Barnhill, and apparently had a shrine to the slain child with pictures and newspaper clippings.

That's two. Yeah, you know, my mom had a shrine to Judy Garland. She didn't fucking put cigarettes in her throat. You don't know what happened. You don't know what happened between your mother and Judy Garland. Judy Garland is one thing. A child murder victim is another entirely. There's many shrines to Judy Garland all over America.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And John Bonnet. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, yes. She's a cultural icon at this point. I know.

You know why? Because, again, if she had put out an album, she's not Selena. You know what I mean? She is a... But she's beloved. I'm not saying... Well, it's because she's...

How do you put this? It's because she's a beautiful little girl. Are you going to call her a no talent hack? I'm just saying, how did she get this gig? Oh, so we're going to give Mark Twain prices to everyone? Well, this guy, Glenn Meyer, allegedly also had a photograph of a Navy Avenger aircraft in his basement with SBTC lettering on it. The same, you know, the end of the ransom note said SBTC. Okay.

The media site radar. online claims that his handwriting matched the ransom note, but the handwriting analysis on this case thus far has been completely invalid with methods completely made up for this case alone. So who knows if this claim is conducive with factual handwriting

analysis? According to a new story, private investigators through the online group John Bonnet investigations found... They must have fun parties. Founder Rasko J. Clark and co-investigator Derek Bromrich traveled to Colorado and obtained a DNA sample from a discarded cigarette after pursuing and stalking Glenn Meyer.

Clark told Radar Online, this could be the breakthrough everyone has been waiting for during the past 24 years, and it's based on hard evidence and forensic science. I'm 100% positive we have the right suspect and we can't rule this person out. These amateur investigators think that possibly two men were involved with the murder of John Bonnet. However, nothing yet has come from the cigarette. Yeah, where's that information? Not there. It's been like six years.

These guys are like bigfoot hunters. Oh, no, this is what we're saying. This is becoming a... It's a cottage industry. It's a pastime. It's people or this is why, like, even as we put out this episode, we're going to get many people yelling

about the things that we've done wrong or said wrong, which I understand because they're living their whole lives researching this. It's just the truth. But it's also, you know, like there's only own so much you can look into. You know, we hired our team.

We put our whole team of researchers into it. And we're looking at this information. This is as much as we can find. Yeah. I mean, but that's the thing. You can't cover every single tiny little theory because, as you said, like, everybody who was connected to the Ramses in any way was considered a suspect at some point. And that's the thing. Not necessarily considered a suspect by the Boulder Police or by the FBI.

More like these fucking internet sleuths. Yeah. Also, when you re-look at this ransom note, I'm looking at it right now. And what I find interesting about it, which they also talk about all time, is it? length like that it's extremely long. It's very long. It's 300 and some odd words long. And when they dot of the eyes, they did the little circle instead of that.

Yes, which is very strange. Very specific. But all of that is done on purpose. I believe that the A's in this are specifically changed in order for them to look different. If you can look, it looks a little strange. If you looked at the like it's very, but

my, the thing that points out to me is number one is that it's written very cleanly and legibly online. Like within the lines, they thought about what they were going to write. This is a planned thought. They thought about this. They had about 20 minutes alone in the house to do this. So whatever it is that they knew what they were going to say, essentially.

And they did talk about like someone that knew something along the lines of police investigation. Or they acted like it. I just weird for Patsy Ramsey to write something like this. I don't know if Patsy Ramney's going to write victory at the end of your ransom. Yeah, after murdering the town. It's up to you now, John. Was this something about foreign powers or something like that? Oh, yeah.

Like, they, like, thought it was like a weird, like... Well, it's because there is some... There's not truth in it, but it was John, John Ramsey worked for a company that was a software company that worked for the government, that had a bunch of government contracts, and there was some story that... Was it Lockheed Martin? Yeah, was it Lockheed Martin? I know they're in Boulder.

I know that much. Yeah, it's Lockheed Martin. Yeah. From what I remember. John Bennett Ramsey. Oh, yeah, he was the executive. of officer of Access Graphics. It was a computer surfaces company. Okay. And he

worked with, and so Access Graphics had a, it's interesting. It was just a, there's a lot of ties to maybe they were doing work for a computer program that some people were trying to say was tied into all these 9-11 conspiracies. Yeah. And that he was a part of that there was like, so that side, that's what feeds that, all of those conspiracy

theory rumors. Oh yeah, there's a, there's a whole, like John Bonae Ramsey is tied into, like people tie it to MK. people tie it to yeah 9-11 was an inside job like this is one of those stories that people can plug whatever they want into it because it is so sloppy and there's so much shit going on and yeah i mean john ben and john ramsie was a very connected individual he was involved in a lot of shit yeah so yeah there are ton of you can make so many fucking connections to this case that you kind of lose what's right in front of him yeah who killed the lindberg baby it's very similar uh god what was his name that we got to do that. I want to do because Charles Lindbergh's a fascinating character. Charles Lindberg's a massive piece of shit. Yeah, we should cover him. He's a fucking

Nazi. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, you know, fascinating. No, he's fascinating. But yeah, he is a not. That's what I'm saying. He's a Nazi. Yeah. He was like this American hero that was also a Nazi. Yeah, he's very interesting. But yeah, I think that the dingo did it.

Well, let's move on to the next suspect. A guy named Gary a This guy is disturbing. Okay. Michael Vail, who knew Olivia in high school and had many, many interactions with Aleva throughout the years, remarked that Gary Aleva was named Scary Gary in high school. And so Michael Vail took pity on Aliva and allowed him to, quote unquote, orbit around Vail's friend group in high school. It was like the, you know, the artsy kids, the poet kids.

Yeah. The understanding kids. Yes. The kids that, like, will bring a weird. Oh, N's like, yeah, scary, Gary, we'll keep him around. He's scary. He's very scary. But, hey, somebody's going to hang out with Gary.

Yeah. Aliva continued writing to Vail following high school, and his letters became more dark and depraved by 1989. He started frequently writing about blood, murder, cannibalism, and child rape. Within two years, Aleva was arrested for raping a seven-year-old girl and attempting to strangle his mother with a telephone cord. Wow. Very good suspect.

Yes. Very good. This has got legs. In the years that followed, Aliva continued mailing Vale's sadistic tape recordings and locks of children's hair with newspaper clippings. In a letter to Michael Vale, Gary Aliva wrote, quote, I never loved anyone like I did John Bonnet.

And yet I let her slip and a head bashed in half and I watched to die. It was an accident. Please believe me She was not like other kids Yeah And another letter he wrote Shambane Ooh mamacita

Completely changed me And removed all evil from me Just one look At her beautiful face Her glowing beautiful skin And her divine god body I realized I was wrong To kill other kids

Yeah, by accident she died, and it was my fault. It's like a fucking true detective character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Henry, you're hired. This guy did it. Yeah. Well, Vail claims that Aliva called him on the night of December 26, 1996, saying that he had hurt a little girl and that he was in the Boulder, Colorado area.

The next morning, Vail found out about John Bonaise's death in the death. the newspaper and immediately called the Boulder Police Department to give them the tip never heard back from the investigators because they just yeah but and also Gary Aleva attended a candlelight vigil shortly after the murder and that's something that you see murders do a lot

all the time yeah they go to funerals they go to visuals they go anywhere where people are feeling sad about the case and they soak it up this is the guy see they found Olliva this is from this is interesting from Rolling Stone. Like approximately when they found him,

his phone, because he was arrested in 2016 on child porn charges. So he was giving a, he was selling child porn. And he had a, this is what they found, quote, approximately 335 photos that had something to do with John Bonae Ramsey. Some were regular photographs of her found online. One of these photographs, 19 were images from her autopsy,

likely from the photographs that had been leaked to the press in years past. There were also many photographs that would appear to be shrines to John Bonnet Ramsey. It is unknown that these were these shrines are located, or if they were created by Oliva or not, I observed in the contact section of Oliva's phone that there were many references to John Bonet Ramsey. In the video section of the phone, I found several videos that were tributes to John Bonnet Ramsey as well.

I just got a weird feeling that this guy, might not be cool. No. I, why is he not a suspect? It seems like an easier thing to cover. He got, he was considered a suspect

in the year 2000. Police found a photo of John Bonnet. Correlation is not causation. Yeah. A poem he'd written titled Ode to John Bonnet and a stun gun. And ultimately, his DNA did not match

what was found at the crime scene. Yeah. That was, and so he was just I'm with that other guy I wish I was there man oh man can somebody just

describe to me what he was like Here's some other fun facts about Gary Aliva he was apparently arrested for illegally entering the University of Colorado Boulder's fine arts building after hours Aliva had a pension for stealing art supplies and had a sexual attraction

to a skeleton the department had on display it sounds like he continuously broke into the building to sleep in art rooms, but mainly because he wanted to be close to the skeleton. Oh, is that what Harrison Ford's doing? Got you, Colista. So he loves art supplies. She was killed with a fucking paintbrush.

Hmm. Well, then he also, 1991, he tried to kill his own mother with a telephone cord during the course of the assault. What is even happening here? Stating, I should have killed you a long time ago. I made other threats to killer. He also stated that when the sheriff arrives, they will find you dead. That was five years later. That was like, yeah, he spent 17 months in jail for the attempted murder.

And then he moved to Colorado. So he was in Colorado at the time. Yeah. And he used to hang out at the University of Colorado a lot. And he'd just hang out on the campus. He'd drop in on classes. Yeah. I used to do that, but I started falling asleep and they found me out.

Yeah. And you're being like, why do you keep breaking into school just to be bored? Gary Oliva was also importantly using an address 10 blocks from the Ramsey home for a long time While he was just being a drifter He had a buddy with him She scratched the buddy He did it

Yep Yes and then one day John Bonaise body was found Val claims that Aliva called him sobbing and said I just heard a little girl But I think he meant by beating her really hard in Mario cart Not giving her a chance And then fearing that Oliva did something with the crime They called the Bull, the police department.

They never returned, Bill. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And Gary Aleva, the knots used in the garot to strangle John Bonnet, were strikingly similar to those when Aleva choked his mother with a telephone cord. He said when he went 48 hours talked to him, he says, I believe that she came to me after she was killed and revealed herself to me. I would like to see a memorial set up for her. I haven't seen that anywhere. Mm-hmm.

Except in my home. Yeah. Oh, yay. He once sent veil a drawing titled John Bonnet Christ, where it's a drawing of a smiling John Bonnet crucified on the cross. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then he drew a nice lovely picture of her, and he said, there is infinite space in your garden here. All they need do is enter. You, John Bonnet, it will be worth it to take the blame for. Is he in prison currently?

Yeah, right? No, he actually just got released January. Yeah, he's got a podcast. He actually was just about to be, I believe he's going to be on Rogan. pitching he's gonna be great yeah yeah no he's out he was supposed to be set to release for prison in 2025 however in january 24 he was released early don't worry so he's out there so go ahead and say hi everybody hey mr o'leaf how are you doing buddy well i mean i don't mean to uh you know throw you know cast a spurson throw sharon on anybody but he looks like lemmy no oh man hey he doesn't He does cut it. He's a little bit.

Danny Trejo. Yeah. And he has these four scars going down the cheek of his face. Yeah. Yeah, I actually don't know. I, again, what's like fucked up is that I don't know if it was him either. Arrest him and put him on trial. I think that there's no evidence.

Yeah, I don't think there's enough evidence. We just listed a shit ton of evidence. All of that is circumstantial, my friend. All circumstantial. A lot of people. confess to crimes they didn't commit. A lot of them want this. There is a, we talk a lot of times about the games that serial killers play once they're in jail because they need to figure out ways to get their fix for all their various antisocial personality disorders. So they, you know,

like John Wayne Gacy, John Wayne Gacyman manipulated people from inside of jail. Richard Ramirez manipulated people from inside of jail. You know, Charles Manson famously. You had a whole bunch of people. So, you know, once you're in jail, like this guy, like, Gary Oliva ain't getting any more popular. Maybe after this, who's going to get that last podcast bump? But, like, you know, it's like it's not good. Well, the most recent update that we have is just from, I think, a month ago. Yeah.

Like that. Yeah, the 60 Minutes Australia did a full segment with John Ramsey. Because Patsy Ramsey died like, what, like six years ago, 10 years ago maybe? Yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, she's been dead for a while. But, yeah, John Ramsey is still, you know, coming forth and saying, like, people still think we did it. And they've been, they have been ruled out since, like, week two.

Okay. I understand why, right? Because with police and they, with all investigations, they stick to the family. They always, because 80 to 95% of the time murders happen by somebody that you know. They happen by somebody who knows you, like, very rarely. Like, that's why it's like, all of the serial murder that we've ever covered still falls in that like 15% markage of homicides that don't evolve. Like, because that's how rare it is that you are killed by a stranger. But they have no motive.

Well, they do. Well, rape and sex and potentially blackmail. So this is something different. So when you look at this, so they never gave any serious thought to their being an. intruder and they also essentially destroyed all the evidence in the process of proving that there was an intruder while they were trying to make trying to figure out of the parents didn't and then they had to backtrack like once they realized that they destroyed all the evidence they had to back to they had to fit the which cops do this shit all the time they don't they try to fit a suspect into the evidence of

course instead of following the evidence of the suspect they start with a suspect and try to fit them into the evidence it's cops do it fucking all the time yeah because they didn't like the ramsies yeah you met the ramsies and they were super fucking weird and then Burke was also weird to you. It's also easy. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, because it's the other thing. It's also kind of statistically.

Statistically, yes. Who does it? And the cop wanted to hire the Santa Claus, but he was already booked. And so he's like, hey, I wanted the Santa Claus. Fuck you guys. I haven't worked in a year since everybody said I murdered John Bonnet Ramsey. I'm forced to be on Easter Bunny. Well, the big thing that this 60 Minutes thing talked about was that nine months after John Bonnet was killed,

on September 14, 1997, a similar crime occurred. Another little girl named Amy was sexually assaulted by an intruder, but the mother was able to intervene and the perpetrator escaped. Amy and John Bonnet knew each other because they were in the same dance class. But Boulder Police Department refused to look into any links between the cases because, of course, they're still on the fucking parents. Oh, yes. And then the ultimate, the ultimate one, which is the photographs of the open window with the scuff marks,

On the wall, someone coming in or out, the suitcase with broken glass in it. The photographic evidence could have shown how the intruder left the Ramsey house. There was also fibers of clothing, Jambini wearing, and the night of the murder were in the suitcase. So it was like, someone tried to put her in the suitcase, but they don't know. So like, that's why it was left that way. Yeah. Was because no one was supposed to find her. You know, like, but they fucked it up.

Yeah. Something happened. That's why I think truly why there was multiple. people because I think that there was a lookout and I think that there was somebody was saying something is happening. I don't think that the murder and the note happens in a sequential order. I think they're happening at the same time. I think somebody's upstairs writing the note. I think there's two people downstairs that are supposed to be handling a child. I think the person from upstairs come downstairs sees two people that have now fucked something up so royally because one of

them was just there from the money and the other one literally is a child molester and they're watch and they're watching two guys that have just went ham on a child when we were not supposed to this was not the plan bros like how many times we see that in movies which i agree with the idea of like we're not this is not supposed to be the plan bros and then it's happening and now it's all fucked could be it's this oliva guy there's no way it's me man there's no way dude because i would have stayed i would hung out with her man well thank you very much everyone for listening to our Jamba-Day Ramsey update. You know, and I think that it could have been less pleasant.

Yeah, it could have been. I think that we did a good job. I'm happy that you're happy. I feel that we've course corrected. And our taste now is so... We're so classy now. We're not like how we were. We're so mature with our analysis and our material.

Sure. I'm wearing a Carebearer shirt just to feel my under child. Hey, as long as you don't rape and murder your inner child, everything's going to be fine. Is it a good way to end? I'm not going to do any longer, so I guess it is. All right, so we'll go down to patreon.com. Check at last spot, that's on the left to go and see us. Go on TikTok, where even just the mention of most of the words in this episode would get the content banned at Elfey on the left.

go to and see us on YouTube You can email us At Sides Stories L-P-O-T-L-G-Mel.com And tell us how wrong we are And then come see us on tour You know what? You're allowed to tell me I'm wrong As long as you buy a ticket.

So if you could, this is my new thing. All right, how about this? I will acknowledge that I'm wrong With an email if you're wrong If you also include an order confirmation number For a ticket To one of our North American shows.

Wow. You can correct me, but you have to give me money while you do it. That's nice. And you're just doing general. You're not doing VIP with that? Nope. He said it. All right.

General admission. General ad michel. Yep. So, and then go check us out. We'll be various North American cities. Come see the JK Ultra Tour. We're also going to Australian. And we'll be seeing all of you upside down in August.

Goodbye, everybody. Bye. Hey, hey, say, Tim. And here again. Hail Burke. Oh, wow. Well, I mean, guess. I don't know what he's up to.

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