Last Podcast On The Left - Life After Death: An Interview with Damien Echols & Lorri Davis

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

This week, the boys have the honor of sitting down with Damien Echols and his wife Lorri Davis to discuss Damien's time behind bars as one of "The West Memphis Three", how life has changed since his 2011 release, and how finding Magic helped him survive 18 years on death row. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes and get exclusive access to bonus content.

There's no place to escape to this is the last time on the left That's when the cannibalism started You know when you're watching something and you're like, I'm just so glad that's not me. Yeah. Yeah You know when you're watching something and you're like, I'm just so glad that's not me. Yeah. Yeah Most of the things I watch I think is that's the reason why I watch it is so I can say I'm glad that's not me Yeah watching all of the go because I haven't it's been so long since I'd seen Paradise Lost and watching it all again It's just like you just forget how much of a nightmare scenario Yeah, do you remember that movie the bear where they just follow the bear around and it much of a nightmare scenario. Yeah. Do you remember that movie The Bear where they just follow the bear around and it's cubs?

Yeah, yeah. That's the last time I watched something like I wish that was me. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zabrowski. I'm looking out for the Satanists and I think that we get blamed for a lot and one of the big things that we do tend to get blamed for is It's poking the holes in the gloves. Yeah, yeah, and we shouldn't do it

No, if gloves are fishnets, unfortunately, and this is me speaking as a Satanist They don't do their purpose as a glove. Yeah, Satanists have very cold tops of their fingers And of course the bearish Ed Larson. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Today we have a very special episode. We have a very special interview. I can't believe we were able To talk to this guy and his wife Today we have an interview with Damien Echols and his wife Laurie Davis They were wonderful to talk to but we wanted to set some context of what we were talking about because we did The West Memphis three we covered the story. Well Well that's who Damien Echols is. He is one of the West Memphis Three

who were falsely accused of killing three children way back in 1993. And we covered this many, many, many years ago. And we never had the opportunity to speak with Damien Echols about his experience. And now I feel like now that we're a little bit more older, a little bit wiser. Wisened.

So it's a little bit easier to talk with him about this very heavy subject But I mean it was he's compelling as ever. He is a very very Interesting and smart individual. I can't believe he has such a great disposition. That's I would go for the world Well for those of you who aren't familiar with the West Memphis Three, you just need a little bit of a refresher. Back in 1993, three children named Stephen Edward Branch, Christopher Mark Byers, and James Michael Moore were murdered together. They were children all around eight, nine years old, and their dead bodies were found mutilated in a

basically a wooded area in the town of West Memphis, Arkansas. They were seen because they were first discovered missing that one evening, the evening of May 5th, Christopher Byers, Michael Moore, and Stevie Branch, and instead of they were missing, they went looking for them to begin their search at the Robin Hood Hills Which was like right near where all all of these they be what would come to be known as the West Memphis three would be Where they lived it was this like weird kind of like middle next to a highway kind of like embankment forest I mean, it's just one of those pieces of woods. It's kind of like where Kaylee Anthony was found it's just like a piece of woods where kids go to play. And so their bodies were

found and it was an absolutely horrific crime scene. I mean, the, the kids had been bound. Their bodies had been hogtied specifically, hogtied specifically and their bodies, you know, as it would come later come out, you know, had been eaten by snapping turtles quite a bit. And so, of course, the cops on the scene were small-town cops, no fucking clue how to handle something like this, and they just make a mess of this crime scene. They trample all over it. They're in shock. Oh, yes. But at the same time,

one of the investigators on the scene turned to another and said, well, it looks like Damien Nichols finally killed someone. And that man was probably Jerry Driver, but we're not going to get into the full, all of the guts of the case. Who was a local security guy? I think he was a high school security officer? Something like that. Like he was, he had basically. I think he was a high school security officer. Something like that. He had basically turned him, he had made himself like the local Satan squad. He was convinced that the West Memphis area was saturated with Satanic covens doing the will of the devil. You know, it's not there. It's in New York. It's in LA. It's

gonna be a place that's nice now Did they ever find out we know that Damien is proven innocent do we ever find out who did this absolutely not no And that's one of the things we're gonna be talking about today with in our interview with them The possibility of maybe finding out sometime in the very near future who may have done this out, sometime in the very near future who may have done this. But the point is, is that before the investigation even started, eyes were already on Damian Echols. Oh immediately, it came from Jerry, it came from Jerry Driver who was a local juvenile officer. He was convinced that Damian Echols was a part of a satanic cult that also featured Jason Baldwin and Jesse Miss Kelly

He was convinced that they were up to no good basically because he had found Damien Echols once making out with the chick They had ran away together when they were in middle school and he had it out for him ever since But it was a little more it was a lot more complicated than that But you know, they just had it It's weird in that way how it does start in a very stupid place And it puts a man on death row for 20 years. Yeah, and this is during the Satanic panic, right? Well, that's the thing about this is that you know, like the West Memphis three were Damien Echols Jason Baldwin and Jesse Miss Kelly Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols were best friends

And they're you know, a couple of kids in a small town. They listen to Metallica You know, they were black their goth kids basically and really like Jason Baldwin really isn't even that much of a goth kid He just likes Metallica. He draw he likes to draw, you know, technically you'd call him a hessher Yeah a hessher exactly and Jesse Miss Kelly He had been lumped in because he had I think the quote that Driver said was that he had spiky hair and stuff Yeah, and so he was like following them around Jesse miss Kelly was kind of but he was said that he was he knew enough to Say hello to him, but he said he he said Damien Eccles actually scared him Oh, yeah

But he was like kind of pallied around sort of or they were familiar with each other But also remember that Jesse miss Kelly had a bit of a learning Disability yes, and so they were all arrested subsequently arrested They could not find the there was no there was evidence, but they didn't do anything with it. They have the shoelaces This is before proper DNA testing could be done So they had found some portions of material on the shoelaces, but all they could get from it was blood type. That was the only thing they had back in the day. They were found stuck in the mud.

So when they were pulled up, they had sticks that were stuck in the mud with them that kept their clothes underneath the surface. And when they pulled up, why they jumped to conclusions that it was satanic activity was because of the quote unquote genital mutilations on the boys and not only were they hogtied, but their genitals were

mutilated and so this was pulled into this a part of their, they did a big, you know, torture style ritual. And of course the people with the Marilyn Manson shirt would know exactly how to do that. But it wasn't them. It was turtles Yeah, we're pretty certain. We're pretty certain that it was turtles Yeah, it's it's pretty certain because you know turtles will go after the fleshiest parts of the body first and you know based On the bite marks and based on turtle activity and the fact that just snapping turtles just everywhere and the Robin Hood Hills area

Points towards most likely of being snapping turtles that did the mutilation who also I will say snapping turtles look very Satanic they do they're very scary Scary basically what it all comes down to is That you know Damien Echols had kind of been talking shit around town being the scary kid saying yeah. Yeah, I killed those kids Whatever you know evil. Yeah, yeah, right like basically puffing up his chest a little bit Just kind of fucking with people we all knew a bunch of kids like that of course. Yes, of course we did But at the same time Jesse, Miss Kelly Have been brought in to be interrogated

and gave a confession to the police saying that he did it along with Damian and Jason Baldwin and this is a textbook case of police coercion when it comes to Jesse Miss Kelly. They you know lead him on at all points if he makes if he says the wrong thing they'll correct him and he'll say oh yeah yeah that's right that's right you're right you're eventually, you know, and they keep telling him the whole time like hey Jesse's as soon as you tell us this You're gonna go home. Yeah, all you gotta do is all you gotta tell it All you could do is tell us what happened, you know

And you can go home to the point where like he confessed to a triple murder There are at least being involved in a triple murder, witnessing a triple murder, and then sat down and was taken back to his jail cell and sat down. He's like, all right, my dad's gonna come pick me up any second now. Like, no idea of the consequences of his actions. And so based off of that confession, and also based off of the testimony of a woman, an older woman, who said that she had gone to a Wiccan black mass with Damian Echols and Jessie Miss Kelly a few months before.

By the way, that was absolutely false. She recanted her entire testimony when it came to that. Turns out she'd just gotten black out drunk and went to a party in a field and had used that as the framework for like, oh, I went to this Wiccan, you know, this Wiccan party, this Wiccan sacrificial ritual with these other two guys. And so, you know, during the trial, all they had were these confessions, and there was also, they said that they had found these threads on the kids' bodies that they said microscopically similar to threads that were found in Damien's trailer Which pretty much just proved that they all shopped at the same Walmart. Yeah, you know like it wasn't any there was by no means anything

forensic To link these guys to the crime in any way whatsoever And there's like you know you can go back and listen to our series said, you know We go through every single piece of evidence that shows the evidence that shows how they couldn't have done it Yeah The part that tripped me out the most was the stuff with the knife When the prosecution like basically said that this was the knife they use and they found it But we all know that that was that knife was tossed in a lake a month before the murders even took place. Yes, exactly

That knife was tossed in a lake a month before the murders even took place. Yes, exactly And so all three of them were found guilty of this triple murder Jason and Jesse were sentenced to life in prison But Damien was sentenced to death that he got full-on got the death penalty And so Damien Echols spent the next 18 years on Death Row Yeah, and that's gonna be a lot a lot of the conversation We're gonna be talking about today is you know his time on Death Row the way he processed it What he learned from within what he kind of how he grew while on Death Row and kind of looking back

Where is he at now exactly and how And how his wife, Laura, was there for him, and is currently helping him out with this new kind of breakthrough that they're hopefully gonna get in this case. But Damien was released in 2011, along with Jason. On an Alford plea. Yes, along with Jason and Jesse on something called an Alford plea.

Basically, an Alford plea is a way for, it's basically a way for someone to get out of jail and at the same time the government not take any responsibility whatsoever. They essentially be able, he essentially says, okay, I admit the state has enough evidence to convict me, but I am innocent. I'm going to declare this kind of semi version of guilty in order to get off. Yeah. And get out of jail. Yes.

And that's how they got out of jail was on this Alpheplae because they spent, you know, there were, you know, Metallica came to his aid, Eddie Vedder, Johnny Depp. It became a fucking massive cultural phenomena. A cause celeb. You know Paradise Lost was the first time that Metallica ever allowed the use of their music to be licensed in a movie. Yeah, cause Lars is not the nicest man who's ever lived. Of course, until they really got the opportunity to really let themselves shine in Mission Impossible 2. Oh yes, that really was that. Yeah, they really had it down there.

So we're gonna start our interview right now with Damien Echols and Laurie Davis. And we're gonna start by talking about what got him into trouble in the first place and possibly the thing that we're in the middle of right now, good old fashioned satanic panic. Fly from your grave. good old-fashioned satanic panic. So as somebody who was I would say directly affected by the satanic panic of the 1980s and the 1990s, probably the most

high-profile person to be affected by the satanic panic, do you think that America is in the grips of another satanic panic or that another one is coming? It's hard to say. I mean, if it does, it won't look like the last one looked. You know, the same thing might happen. You might have like groups of people that are persecuted for various reasons, but I don't think it's going to look exactly like it did back then. You know, back then it was like people today, if you look back at the way the satanic panic looked back then, most people today would think that just looks fucking cheesy.

You know, you had all the people like accusing, you know, Ozzy Osbourne of making people commit suicide by putting backwards lyrics in his music and all this kind of stuff Nobody would take anything like that seriously now. So I think if something like that does happen, it's going to look completely different All right so like for you like the satanic panic of the 90s like how did that trickle down from a National level down to your local authority figures because you know what? down from a national level down to your local authority figures. Because, you know, what's incredible to me about your story is like how there were people that were in your life, even before the murders, that seemed to believe that they were battling

a personal war against Satan himself. Like how did that manifest itself? And they definitely weren't because Satan would have won. I think it kind of trickled down in things like you had, I don't even know where these guys came from, but you had people going into these small towns and doing like seminars for the cops on how they could recognize like satanic activity in their neighborhood. So it was coming like trickling down is a really good way to describe it because it was coming down from somewhere else. Yeah.

And you know, being put in basically like put into people's heads, put into the cops heads, even if the cops had never even thought about it, they had these people coming in and saying, look, this is going on and this is what you need to be on the watch for. And they're like, oh, OK, well, you must know more than we do. So we're going to do what you say. You know, I know that you got a lot of harsh treatment when you win, specifically by the guards. They seem to sort of take enjoyment of what you said, getting you used to the water, essentially. I think you said in your interview with Henry Rollins, I think one of my questions is, though, like,

do you feel like you got any different treatment from the prisoners or anything when you first go in there as the like? minion of the devil himself It was a different situation for me because I was on death row and death row is not like the rest of the prison, you know, there's almost a sense of like, not exactly camaraderie on death row that you don't have in the rest of the prison, but a sense of unity in that we all have a common enemy. You know, we have someone trying to kill all of us

and we are all trying to stay alive. And people on death row look at it as, you know, like if they, the guards, the administration, whatever, are doing something to you, even if I don't like you, I'm going to try to do something about it because if they're doing something to you, they'll do the same thing to me. And you don't really have that in the rest of the prison. So it was like, in a lot of ways, I was really fortunate in getting the death penalty. Would you say that death row is safer than general population? I don't think there's anywhere in prison you can call safe.

I mean, I think I had, I had been on, I had been there for, I think maybe three months, the first time I ever saw someone get stabbed to death. So you still have stuff like that going on. maybe three months, the first time I ever saw someone get stabbed to death. So you still have stuff like that going on. You're not by any stretch of the imagination in a safe place, but it's still like a completely different vibe from general population, say, where you're dealing with, you know, 2000 people that are there for everything from meth to stealing cars to killing old women, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, I mean, I do want to get back to the small town stuff,

but while we're on the subject of death row and camaraderie, like one of the things that I found really interesting in your writing is how, you know, when you wrote about some of these other inmates, like there seemed to be not necessarily a sense of fondness, but definitely a sense of like familiarity with these other people. Like, were there people that you were with on on death row that you miss or that you mourn? Huh? Honestly, I would have to say no, just because.

And there was nobody that was like super hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like a deliberate hilarious. It's it's, you know, people that are so fucked up that you can't, you know, like, I think I wrote about this, but there was a guy that had like one tooth and he wouldn't drink coffee because he said it would stain his tooth. and he wouldn't drink coffee because he said it would stain his tooth. You know, stuff like that. But he's not trying to be funny. Like he's dead serious, but if you have, you know,

even average intelligence, you're gonna find that funny. Yeah. But at the same time, looking back on that stuff now, you know, it really is like that was another person. You know, the person that lived in there, the person that survived that stuff died the day I walked out of prison So it almost feels like when I try to remember these things now

It's almost like you know trying to remember someone else's memories or even a past life or something And you're sitting here with Laurie Davis. You're honestly extremely brave powerful wife. You guys have been out your partnership you've been working together a long time and Was there a part of you when he left prison that did you miss the Oz version of him where you're like damn? That's a really interesting question because Damien really did I Mean he that was one of the things about him that enabled me to be with him, to stay with him, was, I mean, he was in danger. It was always stressful to think of what could be happening to him. But there was something about him that just commanded his space and he was able to hold his own. And that was the hard part about when he got out. He didn't know the world. He didn't understand any of the systems out here or how to do it.

I mean, most of it. I mean, here's the thing, he survived in a place most of us would never survive for all those years. For 18 years, correct? Yes. And then he gets out and everything crashes. His brain just crashes. And he can't, like he said, he was a different person to me, but then I became a different person too, because, you know, I say this

sometimes, I'd become weaponized to do the things that I needed to do. I wasn't like that before I met him. And so suddenly we're these two people who have these abilities that we don't need anymore. And it was- It's interesting. Like, how do you put down the sword? Like, at what point do you say we're safe? Yeah. That's a really good way of looking at it.

That's what it felt like. It's like you get used to living in hell. You get so used to living in hell that you get up and you don't even think about it in the day. And then when you get out, suddenly you're having a nervous breakdown because you've never used a debit card before and you're having to figure out how to do that. You know, all these little things that people out here take for granted that they grow up knowing how to do. It was like I had to figure all of that stuff out, like figure out a lifetime's worth of operating in the world in days.

It completely and absolutely destroyed me. I have almost no memory of the first two years that I was out of prison because it like mentally crippled me so bad. It really did something to me. I didn't realize what it was at the time, but in hindsight, I realized now what was happening was I was having a nervous breakdown. Yeah. I just like I would try to tell Lori something is wrong.

Something is wrong. And she would say what? And I would say, I don't know. I just know something is wrong and she would say what and I would say I don't know I just know something is wrong and it would manifest itself in ways like you know when I was in prison I would read like non-stop like sometimes I would read like five books a week what else are you gonna know you read you work out that yeah what the day that I walked out I couldn't read anymore like I would read the same page of a book over and over and over and I could not retain what I

Read when I got to the bottom of the page. I knew something was wrong with me. Like I wasn't thinking right I couldn't you know I would go to dinner with someone and then reintroduce myself to them the next day because I could not even remember it So I just mean I knew something was going wrong And I knew something was going wrong, and I knew I was absolutely miserable, but I could not figure out what it was until years later looking back. What fixed it? Was it Ivermectin?

What brought it all back around? Honestly, when did you notice, like, I actually, I'm okay. Like I might be okay. I think it was two things really. One was, you know, kind of going back to the satanic panic thing for a minute. When I was in prison, one of the things that allowed me to survive in there was the fact that I didn't even think about being in prison for days at a time. And the reason for that was because I had built a life for myself inside there. I had

stuff that I was doing, like immersing myself in to the point where I didn't even think about the fact that I was in prison. And one of those things was Western Hermeticism or ceremonial magic. And when I was practicing this, by the time I walked out, I was doing it for like eight hours a day sometimes. And it feels like you're on this adventure where you're constantly having all these experiences and learning stuff. And it's like being on the quest for the Holy Grail to the point where I was content,

even when I was on death row. Not saying I didn't want out, didn't want my name cleared, didn't want to go home, but I was content even while I was there. When I walked out of prison, that was one of the things in addition to like reading and losing my short-term memory. It was like I could not do the ritual work that I had been doing for hours a day that had held me together. Suddenly I could not do it at all. And that was another big contributing factor to the disintegration that I went through. What really started to stitch me back together

was whenever I could slowly start returning to the ritual work, pulling my attention away from the world, on trying to figure out how to operate in the world, bringing my attention just back to doing the ritual work, and doing that for hours a day. That was one of the things that started stitching me together. The other thing was martial arts karate. Karate and boxing were two huge steps in returning to any state of being normal.

That's incredible. I mean, what I'm hearing from me again and again is like it seems like the word that keeps coming back to me is reality Is that it seems like over your life the nature of reality has changed so many times And and when all this stuff was starting to happen way back when way back in the 90s You know before you were before you're arrested or even afterwards like at what point did it finally hit you? Like oh shit. This is real I don't think it's a one-time thing. I think it you know You know that

You're in serious shit whenever they arrest you and but you keep you still keep thinking you know, surely somebody's going to realize something's going wrong here and fix this. At any minute, somebody's going to step in and set this right. You know, someone with an IQ of more than 15 is going to intervene in this situation and write it. And you keep waiting on that to happen. For years you wait on that to happen. And for some men in there, I don't think it ever fully sits in. Like they go all the way up to the point

of being strapped to that execution table thinking, okay, at any minute now, this is gonna stop. At any minute, something's gonna change. So, I mean, I don't think there is ever like one moment that you can pinpoint. I think it's a gradual process. And for me also, um, you know, this is going to sound weird in a way, but there are,

there's been a few times in my life when I've met a very small, very small number of people or been in a very small or handful of situations whenever I've been in a place or something, whenever I knew, you know, like a lot of times we don't realize in our lives that something is important until we look back in hindsight. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We don't realize while we're experiencing that this is going to be a pivotal moment in the trajectory of my existence.

But one of those times was the very first letter that I got from Lori, like the very first letter that I ever got from her. I knew to the core of my bones, this is not just another person. This is not just another letter. This is not just another person. This is not just another letter. And one of the ways that I knew that, it felt like something clicked into place. And I had this feeling of, they can't kill me now. They can still hurt me.

They can still fuck me up, but they cannot kill me. It was just like a certainty that went all the way to a soul level. So that also kind of prevented me from, you know, giving in to despair or, you know, experiencing that moment of complete loss of hope and all of that kind of stuff too. I also wonder if that, like,

I find it also fascinating the idea of using hyper methods of concentration to save you, to pull yourself up and out. And that really, it's like, what a very interesting thing to roll you into ritualistic magic, which is legitimately all about a harness of self-awareness and perception. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of people,

whenever they think of magic, they have all these like Woo-woo Conceptions like stuff they've seen in movies or whatever. They don't even you know realize like what it really does to you and what it really is So, you know, for example whenever you you start first off the very basic beginning levels you're working your way extensively through beginning levels, you're working your way extensively through levels that correspond to the elements like earth, air, fire and water. And then from there you move on to the planets and then

astrological signs and fixed stars and things like this. But whenever you're doing this, like for example, when you start working on the elements and you start invoking Earth, for example, one of the things you do is you start doing ritual work every single day repeatedly to invoke energies that correspond to the element of Earth. Well, what starts happening is the aspects of yourself that correspond to that particular energy start to change.

So for example, with Earth, one of the things you find yourself doing is you're invoking this energy every day and you start to think, you know what, maybe I really should start to exercise a little more, or maybe smoking cigarettes isn't the greatest idea. I think I'm going to quit. And those are all things that I did in there. So those were aspects of myself that started to change. And I saw that and I realized, holy. This isn't just make-believe

You know bullshit. This is actually doing something to me This is changing me in some way and the same thing starts happening like when you start invoking water Every single day the aspects of you that correspond to water start to change, you know that includes stuff like your you know your your emotions your unconscious, your subconscious, and working through artistic mediums. So you're invoking water every day, the next thing you know, you just think, you know what, maybe I might like to start

doing some painting. And I did that. I started buying, I couldn't get paint brushes or anything, so I started using Q-tips. And I bought paint from other inmates that were like smuggling it in to the prison. And I started doing paintings and even having art shows while I was in prison.

So it's like when you're working on magic, it changes every aspect of yourself. You know, like when you're invoking air every day, air corresponds to like your intellect, you know, your ability to use logic and reason. And when I was doing that, that was when I woke up one day and I decided, you know what, I want to have the same frames of reference that everybody else has. So I'm going to start, you know, just I read everything under the sun from Camus to Dickens, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky,

Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Freud. I started taking psychology classes, sociology classes, German classes, you know, all of that. You really did prison really well. That's a great, this is a great plan. I gotta ask, I guess it's kind of a weird thing to ask someone because obviously the worst thing that could happen to anyone other than being the victim of crime is being wrongfully imprisoned for one and But where do you see yourself if this never happens? Are you a better person because of this like now? Are you a better person now than you think you would have been if this? I think he might have skipped it? I think he might have skipped the 18 years of death row, but I feel like

You know that's I it's one of those things that to I think to most people when they look at my life and they look At you know things like that that looked like blatantly obviously horrific things they they probably think that I had a shitty life, but honestly, if somebody told me, you know, I think a lot of people got it worse than I did. You know, if they told me you can do 18 years in prison or you can work at McDonald's for 18 years, I'd be like, fuck, send me to prison.

You know? In a lot of ways, I think I really was fortunate in, you know, it took me out of a situation, you know, nobody in my family has an education beyond like the ninth grade. When I was born, my mom was 15, my dad was 16. You know, you're not going to find any college graduates, even high school educated diplomas or anything in my family. So looking at the trajectory of the lives of everyone around me, I didn't have anything to look forward to.

There was nothing that looked like my fortune was going to be any different from the people in the environment that was around me. And something happened where I was plucked out of that world and it saved me in a lot of ways. So yes, I went through some horrible shit, but at the same time I was really, really blessed in a lot of ways. Well, the fact that you're not smoking crack and selling like high tech pillows and putting feet in the Trump White House, like literally the fact that you skipped that

shows that you did something I think correct. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Laura, I wanna ask you, Laurie, like I know when the two of you got married, you moved down to Arkansas from New York City to be closer to Damien did Damien have to give you a kind of like Arkansas primer No, because I grew up in rural I can't say that word ever rural I grew up in West Virginia. I grew up. Yeah, okay I grew up in West Virginia. I grew up in... Oh, yeah, okay. I grew up in rural Texas.

So that... Yep, so... Were you a goth, Lori? Like, when you said, were you full gothed out? You mean when I was growing up? When you met, when you guys met or like... No. No.

I was, we were polar opposites, really. It just didn't make any sense at all. Do you feel the pressure now, though? Like, do you feel like, well, I got to got it up now? Yeah, we're going out. I got to got it. I got to do some stuff. I got to get some fish nets. Here's the thing. I mean, I mean, I never knew how to dress. I didn't have any senses. I just didn't. Well, according to him, I didn't have any sense of style at all.

And Damien, so, I mean, I just started after he got out, I said, why don't you just start buying my clothes? So he did. And he still does to this day. So he is a much better, I mean, I dress better now than I ever. I mean, my whole wardrobe, yes, is black, but I actually really love to. And now he's got me, so we both just wear uniforms all the time.

Like I have the same 10 pairs of pants and 10 shirts. That's not even an exaggeration. That's literal. Like I reached a point where I did not wanna have to think about clothes anymore. So I got like five pairs of the exact same pants, 10 of the exact same shirts, about 10 of the exact same kind of underwear, socks, everything. So you just pick up the next one in line and don't have to expend any energy planning on

what you're going to wear that day. It was funny though, when we got married, the goth girls online, they were so pissed. I mean, they were no, she wasn't on warped tour. Learn about Buddhism like you did. I wore this like, it was kind of a, it was like a red kind of, I mean it was pretty, but it was this red kind of flower dress. And there were all these comments online about, she wore that dress, you know, it was just on.

Unbelievable. So, Lori, do you also practice like ritual magic? I have a practice. It's not exactly the same as Damien's. It's different, but it's still, it's... In the same vein. The same results. Hopefully. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, because we all, because me and Henry have both practiced ritual magic

in the past as well. And, you know, it's different for absolutely everybody what works for them. Yeah. As I'm getting older, it's changing. Yeah, that's for certain Yeah, I'm more of a fan of practical magic the movie the movie was Andrew Bullock Well, it's being different kinds of magic like one of the things that was so surprised to read about is that you you found a Theosophist on Death Row a guy who actually studied Madame Blavatsky like What was what was his how did that conversation begin and like what was that guy?

What was his deal? So he and his best friend His best friend was a Zen Buddhist who got into a gunfight with the cops and got two of his fingers. The exact opposite. You don't normally hear rats how a Buddhist dies. They shot off two of his fingers. So everybody on death row used to call him three finger woo. Death Row used to call him three-finger woo. But he had a Zen teacher, a Zen master that would, you know, he was the head abbot of a 300-year-old temple in Japan and would come back and forth to teach him. And when you're executed, the only person that's allowed to be with you is your spiritual advisor, like no family, no friends, any of that. So this Zen master came over to be with the theosophist's best friend

whenever he was executed. After he was executed, he was allowed to come back on death row and tell us what the guy's last words were and how he held up during the execution, all this kind of stuff. And we just started talking and then started corresponding with each other.

And his teacher became my teacher and before I left prison, like by the time he was executed, he had become an ordained priest in the Rinzai Zen tradition of Japanese Buddhism and I followed the same route, trained for years while I was in there with the same teacher, got ordination while I was in there. But those two guys, the day that I walked in the door on Death Road, those two guys were the first people to approach me. And they gave me just this pack that had stuff in it that you need on your first day in prison.

You know, like, for example, stamped envelopes so you can write to your family and let them know where you are or, you know, what a bar of soap, you know, stuff like that. And one of the very first things that they said to me whenever I got in there is you can either turn yourself into a monastery and work on yourself or you can be like the rest of these guys and you can sit in here and go stark raving insane. Yeah, that is such a, it's just an amazing tool to be able to use. And now like, how do you find it's changed that now that you've been out for a decade plus, like, are like, do you still kind of have that same mindfulness about you or like,

I know you still practice, right? And that's what you teach on your Patreon? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Well, I think what it was like what part of what was so destructive to me about getting out of prison was getting away From that, you know being introduced into this world where so much is happening and there's you know, I went from Solitary confinement like the last nine years that I was in prison, I was in solitary confinement. I went from solitary confinement to the streets of Manhattan literally overnight.

It was like being bombarded with everything you can imagine. And I kind of wanted to make up for everything that I'd missed and not experienced. I lived on the streets of New York for years when I first got out. I wanted to see everything, do everything. I would go stand in drugstores and just look at all the ink pens and the chocolate bars

and just the stuff that I hadn't seen in years and years. It got me further and further away from having a consistent routine. Part of what started allowing me to heal was getting back to the same things that had allowed me to find contentment and growth in prison, which is in a lot of ways shutting myself off from the world. Really other than whatever I'm doing work wise, like whether it's being on Patreon and doing live streams on there or writing, you know, the occasional book and have to do like a book tour or something, for the most part,

I found that I am the most content when I am living a very monastic kind of life. You know, I get up every single day and I start practicing karate every single morning. And that's pretty much what my days are dedicated to now. And as long as I do that, I find that I am probably happier than 90% of the people that I come across in the world. I find that that is the key. I'm stumbling upon it in my older life,

but this idea of it's about a sense of discipline, but it's getting rid of this, the stink off the word discipline. Yes, yes. You have to get to love it. Like you have to realize that this discipline, it might be hard. Like it's a sacrifice.

You sacrifice going on, drunken benders or football games, or whatever it it might be hard. Like, it's a sacrifice. You sacrifice going on, you know, drunken benders or football games or, you know, whatever it is that people do. You sacrifice a lot of that socialness that people get lost in. But it comes with, you know, a hell of a reward if you do. Do you ever feel like it was also intoxicating? Because when you got out,

you were like essentially best friends feel like it was also intoxicating? Cause when you got out, you were like essentially best friends with like Eddie Vedder, Henry Rollins, like all these like rock stars came out when you guys first got out, like, do you find that, like, that also must've been very intense and distracting? It was, you know, in a lot of ways, you know, this, this sounds kind of odd. I'm very, very, very appreciative to all those people, more than I could ever say.

You know, they've been from everybody from Johnny Depp to Eddie Vedder to Henry Rollins, Margaret Cho, you know, so many people, Peter Jackson, you know, more people than I can even name. I would be dead if not for these people and I appreciate everything they did But one thing I realized very quickly is I do not like being in those worlds In those, you know, hollywood worlds or you know being called up and why though? It's one of the most pure What are you talking about? It's not a it's not a season of other free rapists and criminals

and racketeer. How were the Puff Daddy White parties? Yeah, I was saying. You had to see everything. Conversation gone bad. But did you, but when you first came out, did you like feel a pressure to, to, to participate in those sorts of worlds? Kind of just because when I walked out of prison, you know, I didn't have a penny to

my name. I didn't have a suit of clothes to change into. I had nowhere to go. I had absolutely nothing. So if it wasn't for like the generosity of, you know, a lot of these people helping us out and even like giving us a place to stay until, you know, crazy story, we ended up staying in an apartment in New York. You know, Peter Jackson, he and his wife Fran, they had this apartment in New York and they're like, you know, that's how we ended up in

New York. They're like, why don't you go and stay there in our apartment, you know, until you figure out what you're going to do. Um, you know, what, what's your next step is going to be all that kind of stuff. And then now it's the apartment that Taylor Swift lives in. She bought her apartment and that's where she lives. You do feel a sense of, of pressure in that, you know, you want to show your appreciation and make people happy and all this kind of stuff. But at the same time, it's just that's that's that's not my scene. That's not a thing that I enjoy. You know, I don't like parties.

I don't like fancy dinners. You know, one time we went to that concert that they had in New York after Hurricane Sandy. And I mean, everybody was there. I remember Kanye West, the Rolling Stones, the Who, Roger. Like everybody's at this thing, right? And we're sitting there and we've been there for probably 30 minutes. And I was thinking, you know what? I've got part of a pizza

in the fridge at home that I'm actually eating right now. And we got up and left. Yeah, man. Yeah. Hey, you enjoyed it. That makes you a real New Yorker though. Yeah, that makes me a real New Yorker. Now, currently you're working

with The Innocence Project, correct? Yes, yes. Now, one of the things I learned, I've had many long conversations with Jason Flom who also works with the Innocence Project and the one thing that I learned from him about Death Row that stuck with me is that it is suspected that one out of 20 people on Death Row is innocent. Now, did you know anyone else on death row that you thought might've been innocent? Yeah, at least, you know, there were, there were at least two

that were just straight out flat up innocent, you know, that had nothing to do with anything they were charged with at all. But there were other really weird cases, you know, for example, there was a guy that was on death row because his brother had committed a murder and he was taking the fall for his brother because his brother was at home taking care of their mom. And he's so thing. So yeah, stuff like that. You also have people that are taking out the no one of them got out.

One of them I believe was executed after I got out. Wow. Yeah. Geez. Life from your grave. Well, I mean, concerning your magic, and you know, in this type of environment that you're talking about, like, you know, it's the type of magic that you write about and you talk about, you know, it was born in a very dark place, arguably

one of the darkest places you can be, but it seems very radiant, is a word I'd describe. It's very radiant. You talk about angels and those sorts of other beings that you have regular communication with. Like, why do you think that that sort of philosophy was born from such a dark place? I don't know. Well, I take that back. I think it's, you've always had elements of society

that want to keep people under their thumb, you know, that don't want you to be fully conscious, you know, that basically wants you to remain in slavery for your entire life. And they demonize things so that you don't look in places where you'll find something that's going to bring you out of that, that's going to wake you up from that. But that's exactly what magic is. You know, I think one of the best descriptions I've ever heard of what you're doing whenever you are practicing this work was by Beethoven. And I'll mangle this. This isn't, I won't get it exactly right, but it was

something along the lines of he said that the greatest thing that we could possibly hope to do the lines of he said that the greatest thing that we could possibly hope to do is approach divinity as closely as we can, gather its rays and disseminate them out to mankind. And different people are going to do that in different ways. You know, Beethoven obviously did it through his music. Other people may do it through writing. Other people may do it through visual art. Other people may do it through podcasts. Whatever it is, it's a way. Other people. Other people do it. But that's what you're doing when you're practicing magic and you're doing the exact same thing that all the prophets in the Old Testament talk about in like this veiled language, you know, like in the book of Enoch and the prophet Ezekiel, where they're talking about approaching

the throne of God and all this sort of stuff. Jacob's ladder. That's what, when you're talking about the levels of magic where you start off with the elements and then you move up through the planets and then the astrological work and the fixed stars, all of that, what you're doing is step-by-step ascending. In the Bible, they use the metaphor of Jacob's ladder. You know, Jacob goes to sleep and he sees this ladder that ascends from Earth to Heaven, and there's these angels that are constantly coming up and going down, ascending and descending.

That's like a metaphor for this work. Climbing one rung at a time from each element to each planet to each astrological sign to each fixed star until you reach like the throne of of God and and bathe in that divine energy. Have you gotten there? What's that like? What's that like? Those are things that I used to talk about a lot and I stopped doing it. I won't say any names, but I did a podcast one time where I was taught, and this was a huge podcast and it's supposed to be about spirituality and all this kind of stuff.

And the guy asked me pretty much something along the same lines of what you're what you just asked and I sure you fixed it Started talking about some things and I could tell by looking at his face like he was like this guy is fucked up That podcast never aired Maybe twice. I actually wonder if like cause I do, I believe that partially what we are going to face in the next couple of years is

it's going to be difficult for people that are of our persuasion to handle kind of definitely both the messaging and the temperament and just the straight vibes are gonna be off for the next couple of years. What do you think is a good way to give people advice about finding that strength and peace within

during an extremely turbulent time? All you can do is stop worrying about what other people are doing and find something to pour yourself into heart and soul that is going to make you a better person. And by better person I mean like more physically fit, smarter, you know, a little more emotionally mature. Like if you just pour your energy into something that you love, whatever it is, whether it's yoga, martial arts, ceremonial magic, whatever hiking, whatever the hell

it is, if you pour yourself into it and strive to the best of your ability to get, you know, 1% better at it every single day, then you're going to find that you don't fall into those angsty traps that swallow most people up nearly as much as, you know, most other people do. That's one of the things about, like, you know, ceremonial magic, the things you realize, like, one day you think, wow, I don't get pissed off nearly as much as I used to. And if I do, it passes a lot quicker. Or you know what? I don't fall into those random

bouts of angsty depression that I used to, like when I was a teenager in my early twenties. It just stopped. Like you realize, looking back in hindsight, you know, you don't always realize the changes that are occurring in yourself when you're going through them. But when you look back in hindsight, you realize, you know, wow, something was really happening there. That's the only thing that I tell people is usually people who I'm very wary of people who want to save the world. Usually those are people who aren't doing a lot of internal work. What I usually advise for people who are just miserable, you know, due to external situations,

circumstances, whatever it is, is find something that you love and pour yourself into it with everything you have and you'll find that the world gets like 90% better. And I also feel that to my fellow magicians or people who want to do this and do this type of work is that what you don't know is that according to especially people like Gurdjieff and these other things is that you can turn doing your laundry into a meditative exercise that benefits you spiritually, physically. Like, there's a thing about it. It's how you do things. Yes, exactly. You know, that's the thing about like martial arts. And one of the things that I

love so much about karate is like when you're when you're practicing, you are building like a kind of discipline that theoretically and hopefully will eventually start to leak over into every other aspect of your life. Like you will approach doing your laundry with the same level of clarity and commitment and dedication as you do whenever you go into class to practice. It's time to kick stains his ass So as far as what's going on with y'all now like y'all have had a huge year You've had a big, you've had a really like a huge hurdle has finally been crossed as far as finally clearing your name. Like tell us about this ruling that occurred in April this year. Well that was one of the reasons I wanted Laurie to do this is because I, here's the thing, I

pay very very little attention to my case at all. Like I can tell you almost nothing that's going on at any given period of time, just because I found that the more I paid attention to that stuff and the more that I focused on the details of what was happening and what could be happening next and when is this going to happen and when's the timeframe for that. The more I paid attention to that, the more it pulled me out of like that monastic kind of life and made me focus on the things that made me miserable again. So Lori really does handle like 95, 98% of everything going on in the case.

And that's why I wanted her to be here so that she could well I knew you were gonna ask that question and I was gonna have no answer to it That's amazing thank you for all that you do yes, so please explain because we want to know because I know that we We try to I'm gonna I'm not even gonna try to explain what the Alfred plea is and all that stuff because it's a feel Like it's one of these things so it's like does this change that? We don't know yet. It I mean that will be I mean once we get the testing done and We're first of all tell us what the what the testing is and what you guys finally got over the line Yeah, so let me start with

Just the even a little bit of backstory. So we, because it's been, I mean, it's been a long, hard road to get here. So we asked to test evidence in 2019 because of a new technique called MVAC. And so, but there's a lot of new techniques that are even around now. So anyway, one thing after another, and we ended up, it just was, I mean, dealing with Arkansas was a nightmare. And we ended up finally, they told us that the evidence had been lost, stolen or burnt up in a fire. And the evidence was a shoelace, correct, from the crime scene?

It was, yes, all of the laces that tied the victims. So that would have, there were, let's see how many sets of shoelaces that would have been. Six. laces, that would have been six. So we ended up having to sue the state in order to get access to the evidence to see if they had it, and it turns out they did. So then we had to go to court to ask if we can test the evidence, and that's why we ended up in the Supreme Court, which that I mean all of this took what we we got that ruling last April This past April so that would have been from 2019 to 2024 that's how long it took to do this Yeah, and and then people I know people have been getting because that was huge when that Supreme Court

And then people, I know people have been getting, because that was huge when that Supreme Court handed down that ruling, but that was just the beginning. That's telling. And we've been so truly blessed with what's going on in Arkansas right now, because the prosecutor is actually working with us. This is a wonderful prosecutor named Sonia Fonticello. Oh, it's a prosecutor who actually wants to find the people who committed the crime. What a fucking novel idea Casey Anthony's got nothing going on she can maybe help So but it's but now it's taken it's and people don't understand why it's been taking so long They're like, well, you you know, they said you could test it. Just why don't you test it?

But our lawyer, Steve Braga, who has just been, he's, he's just been, he's the most amazing lawyer. And, um, it, Dame, it was Damien who sued the state and took this to court. Jason and Jason Baldwin and Jesse Miss Kelly were not a part of that lawsuit. So we knew at some point they were going to have to come on board. So for the last few months, what we've been doing is coordinating with their legal teams so that we all have an agreed upon order with the prosecutor. We haven't, we're not there yet, we're close. We're thinking we're probably going to have an agreed upon order, and this means all the evidence is going to be tested and all of the techniques we're going to

use, what labs we're going to use down to what scientists we're going to use. So it is going to be a very, very tight order. And we've been working with the Innocence Project to get recommendations and other experts across the best, I mean, really the best people have come aboard to help us, couldn't have a better team. And finally, everyone's, we're moving toward an agreement, probably we'll have it in December. They're thinking we'll probably start testing in January and we'll probably have, um, results. They're thinking, uh, earliest could be late February.

So this is amazing and I can't discuss all of the evidence that we're going to be testing. I can say that the ligatures are a part of it and hairs, but there's also going to be other other things tested. It's going to be that's in what a journey. Keep in mind though, this is crazy. It's what 30 years now is. Yes.

But keep in mind also, this is one of those things like, you know, even when the DNA testing does come back, like say it comes back in February, you know, people that haven't spent most of their lives tangled up in the legal system don't realize like how slowly this all moves. I mean, keep in mind that when the first round of DNA testing was done, the testing that got us out of prison. They found out that the DNA at the crime scene did not match me, Jason, or Jesse. I sat in prison for another three years after we knew that.

So that's kind of how slowly this stuff moves. Well, especially for them to tell themselves they're wrong, because I don't think the government doesn't. They don't think the government does it They don't like it isn't that the whole point of the Alford plea is for everybody to just sort of say like No one has to be wrong. No. Yes Do you have obviously you can't reveal anything? But do you have a good idea who you think might have been responsible for this crime? Everybody kind of has their own ideas.

This was one of the things my lawyer told me. Oh my God, do the two of you have different ideas? Whoa, do you guys both, do you guys like fight? You fight over dinner about who actually did it? This was one of the things that my lawyer even said, like, you know, I asked him before we came on, like, is there anything I can't talk about? And he's like, don't go on saying, you know, who you think

definitely don't have to give any names, but like, do you think, you know, I've always had a really, uh, I've had a sneak in suspicion about someone that was very, very shady and that I don't think anyone else has ever looked at this person before. Is it possible that we're going to end up, it's just going to be, whoever it is is probably at this point, they might be dead. I think they're still alive. Okay. Got it. Got it. Good. Hopefully they're scared. Hopefully they know it's coming because it's like's like we go through especially a crime of that nature

The fact that there was as little there definitely was evidence but as you've alluded to which is why we didn't go hardcore into the details of your case because largely our audience is very well aware and It is just you know, the the the crime scene itself was so Insane and so it's so horrible like this the idea that three children I said ostensibly would have done it is wild. Yeah Yeah But that's what I mean about how like I found that the thing that kept me from going insane was building a world for myself Where I was focusing on something, you know, like other than the case

for myself where I was focusing on something, you know, like other than the case, because, you know, like I said, I sat there for three years after the first round of DNA testing showed that it didn't match us. You know, if I would have been focused every day on, okay, the DNA wasn't mine, they're going to let me go home now, right? Like I would have lost my mind in that three years if I would have focused on that. With you and the other guys, are you, are you sort of like, how do you put it? Like, are you friends with the guys like that you were like with like, or is it one of those things where you're just still kind of connected like in terms of

like your relationship? I think it's more that I think it's more the latter, like just being connected. You know, keep in mind that I didn't even, like when we were in prison, they didn't even let us see each other. So, you know, you're talking about someone like when I was a teenager, Jason Baldwin was my best friend, but you know, I didn't even see him for 20 years while I was 18 years and 76 days. It wasn't like we were hanging out and having conversations. And he was 16 years old when he went to prison. When he came out, he was an adult.

He's not the same person that he was. I always think if you're friends with the same people that you were friends with when you're 16, that you are when you know, I always think if you're friends with the same people that you were friends with when you're 16, that you are when you're 50, which is what I'm about to be, something's probably went wrong in your life. Like, it's probably not a lot of growth happening there or something.

But, you know, for the most part, it's like we're probably just connected by the case. Like, I don't even know where Jesse is now, honestly. You know, he just... Yeah, I didn't know if you guys all got together and played pool or whatever. Then I figured, like, why would you want to review? Why would you want to go back? Kick it about the good old days.

Yeah. Also, what are we going to really do about the satanic cults? I really want to ask, now that I have you here, I think it's time we can really crack down on them, because you and I can infiltrate these people, they think that we're a part of them. Can we get flippin'? Well, Damien and Laurie, thank you so much for joining us today, this has been an absolute pleasure to have both of you.

Thank you guys so much for having us. This has been Fine. Yeah, dude and honestly So anything you want anybody to look up just in terms of you want to lay out your patreon because you're doing What are you doing on the patreon just so the people know I do live streams and honestly I do a little bit of mostly what I try to do is help people focus on things that are going to make them happier, feel better. And a huge part of that is ceremonial magic. You know, I try to help.

There's been people on there that have been with me for years that we talk about their practices. I only do live streams on there because I like interacting with people. You know, I don't just like doing videos. I like, you know, the back and forth, the conversation. So it's everything from martial arts to ceremonial magic to philosophy. You know, anything that's going to make you a better, wiser, stronger person. Awesome. No feet. No who? What?

Feet. No feet. He's eluding the possibility of you selling pictures of your feet for sexual masturbation See my feet No! I hear it and I love it! Somebody told me one time that my feet looked like the halfway transition point in that movie The Howling, whenever they're half-transformed. God! I'm so turned on right now.

Oh, and before we go, please tell us the names of your books that you've written on magic and the books you've written about your time in prison. They're fantastic. If you're interested in the prison stuff, my life story in general, the first one was called Life After Death. Then there was another one that is just a book of mine and Lori's correspondence, like our letters while I was in prison, and it's called Yours for Eternity. Oh, that's nice.

Did you still write letters, or did you move on to email? Oh, we moved on to texting each other memes for the most part. Yeah. True love, that's what marriage is. Yeah. Yeah. The magic books would be High Magic,

Angels and Archangels, a Magician's Guide, and Ritual. Dude, you are a wonderful resource, and thank you so much, Lori, for being here too. Like, this really has been, we've been trying to do this a long time, so I'm glad we got to do it. Yeah, you truly are an inspiration to people everywhere, so thank you for what you do, and for speaking out. Thank you guys so much for everything. Oh yeah. Hail sweet guys so much for everything. Oh yeah.

Hail sweet Satan, this is great. I am from your grave. Wow. Wow, what an incredible interview. Yes, I mean, it was, I feel like a smarter person. Yeah. He's a very inspirational person. It's good to be around him.

Yeah, and it's an absolutely harrowing story, but it's extremely inspirational at the same time. I mean, for a man to find peace like that I mean the strength that it must take to find something like that is fucking incredible. I don't have it. I would die Go to page so go to page your own.com slash last podcast I'm left to watch us talk and to see us live you You could go and see our live stream every Tuesday at 6 p.m. PST. That's right, live baby.

We're coming to Brooklyn next week. I can't wait. King's Theater, one of the coolest venues in America. It's gonna be amazing. That's gonna be December 7th in Brooklyn at the King's Theater. Come hang out with us. Yep, and Atlanta, Dallas, Nashville, Detroit, Toronto, we're coming to all your cities next

year so go to lastpodcastontheleft.com to see when those shows are and hail gene fuckers. Hail Satan you pieces of shit and remember Satan's not gonna fuck you like that. Nope. It's not going to. Eye contact. Yep. Hail Damien Echols. Yeah.