Last Podcast On The Left - Orphan First Kill: An Interview with William Brent Bell
Episode Date: August 24, 2022Henry sits down with director, producer, and screenwriter William Brent Bell to discuss The Boy films, bringing back The Orphan in prequel form with the new film Orphan: First Kill, creepy kids, real ...life evil orphans, and MORE!
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                                        Hello ladies and gentlemen of the last podcast of the left patreon god, it's good to see you. I mean, I can't see you
                                         
                                        I can't really see anything. I have a blindfold on. I'm in an undisclosed location. This is Henry Zabrowski
                                         
                                        But you know who's not is my steam to guest
                                         
                                        Someone that is out here. I mean because he can't be in hiding because he is on a promotional tour
                                         
                                        And he's got he has to be out there. He's in for and they I'm certainly I'm certain he'd rather be asleep
                                         
                                        but
                                         
                                        No, but he's excited about the movie. No, I see the eagerness in his face. He's excited about the film
                                         
                                        We're gonna get into the meat of it
                                         
    
                                        This is William Brent Bell the director of some of our favorite movies on side stories the last podcast
                                         
                                        We like we've talked about the boy sometimes where also has come up quite a bit
                                         
                                        Which I also it's a great movie. Um, but most importantly this your newest film orphan to
                                         
                                        first kill
                                         
                                        Which I'm very excited for I'm excited for the world to see. Thank you so much for being here William Brent Bell
                                         
                                        Thank you so much for having me and obviously you can call me Brent and
                                         
                                        It's for Googles
                                         
                                        Absolutely, and no, it's great to be here. You know, I don't really
                                         
    
                                        Really want to be asleep, but no like being in front of out in front of things in a publicity ways
                                         
                                        Not necessarily, you know, where I usually am. I'm always behind the camera. So watching the girls watching
                                         
                                        Julie and Isabelle doing press this week, you know, I'm just like, ah, they make me look so bad
                                         
                                        That's their job and you have to be remember remember remember who made you orphan. Yeah, we say that to the actors. Yeah
                                         
                                        Yeah
                                         
                                        But it's been fun. It's already been fun. Can I ask you right? So number one, we'll get into the film
                                         
                                        I'm excited about this because it's a prequel because at first I was just like how we do in the sequel to
                                         
                                        Orphan because not against spoilers. Let's just say orphan doesn't fare very well at the end of the first movie
                                         
    
                                        Her neck takes a turn for the worse. She gets what she deserves. Yeah. Oh, yeah
                                         
                                        Um, oh, yeah, but my question is man
                                         
                                        What do you have against children?
                                         
                                        You know, um, I
                                         
                                        Guess I just think that they're kind of up to no good kids kids remain pretty a lot of great really quiet
                                         
                                        You know, yes kids are wild but those ones are too obvious
                                         
                                        it's the quiet ones who I know hear everything and
                                         
                                        You know, I mean, I knew when I was a kid, you know
                                         
    
                                        We are our strongest memories of things like movies are well before 10 and oh, yeah
                                         
                                        Yet yet adults look at a kid six to ten and you know
                                         
                                        They don't realize how smart kids are and I still remember
                                         
                                        How can I think we were as kids?
                                         
                                        I was a kid. I was very much so into everything that was spooky and dark
                                         
                                        But it also used to terrify me. So essentially, I mean, I would torture my parents
                                         
                                        Because all I'd want to see was whatever is the creepiest thing and they were like, oh
                                         
                                        Like and I'd read it too because my I started reading Stephen King when I was like 10 years old
                                         
    
                                        Like and it was probably very it's far too young
                                         
                                        Yeah, yeah, yeah
                                         
                                        But I'm reading it. My mom did the thing. Well, at least he's reading
                                         
                                        Which doesn't know that I'm up all night like terrified by my own imagination. Yeah, I mean, but
                                         
                                        you know, I
                                         
                                        Been thinking about this a lot lately and um, I was terrified too and I saw movies way too young and it's what my parents did
                                         
                                        When as a product of divorce they sat me in front of the television and I ended up watching scary stuff
                                         
                                        My sister made sure I did she was like four and a half years older that perfect age where she hated me
                                         
    
                                        But also kind of was torturing me by having me watch halloween and stuff as a kid
                                         
                                        But it's great and and so while I have these
                                         
                                        I have stronger memories about horror films before the age of 10 than I do about like my regular life
                                         
                                        Um, the house I was obsessed with movie house
                                         
                                        Oh, yeah, little boy and now I rewatch as an adult and I was like it's a very weird
                                         
                                        toned film, I mean
                                         
                                        There's there's a lot that we were allowed to watch that
                                         
                                        had very weird tones and books that were written back then like he said Stephen King, but I mean, you know best sellers back
                                         
    
                                        Um in the late 60s and early 70s when you know such a heyday for horror
                                         
                                        also people were buying
                                         
                                        Jaws or you know the other or these amazing books that turned into horror films
                                         
                                        Um, it's not like that really necessarily more except for kind of the more straightforward
                                         
                                        Or like Stephen King or Peter Straub, you know
                                         
                                        Did you it's that how you found yourself into because you've directed a lot of horror
                                         
                                        Like do you feel that you are like because then I feel like some guys get a little bit like well, I'm
                                         
                                        I'm a director. I'm not a horror director, but do you feel that you're like a horror guy?
                                         
    
                                        um
                                         
                                        And well, yeah, I mean some I mean I'm from Lexington, Kentucky. I'm always going to be from Lexington
                                         
                                        I'm a horror guy like it's just part of my DNA
                                         
                                        Some people because some guys get umbrage because I've had this we've talked with directors about this and sometimes you're like
                                         
                                        Well, I'm not a I'm a director, you know, and you're like no, I know but you've done only horror films
                                         
                                        They're all like but you wait until I do my final, you know rob zombie. I love him
                                         
                                        He wanted to do the hot the hockey comedy
                                         
                                        You know, I mean that he can't seem to get going. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's it's
                                         
    
                                        in between movies, um
                                         
                                        Sometimes more than others. It's like
                                         
                                        It'll always be like well, what's next and then they'll be like
                                         
                                        Some science never rom-coms or straight dramas. Yeah, but there'll be um
                                         
                                        science fiction ideas or you know things that are in the realm but not straight horror and um
                                         
                                        And then I just find myself gravitating right back towards horror and because to me
                                         
                                        Of course, it's such a wide spectrum of story styles that a lot of yeah, who aren't as familiar with horror
                                         
                                        And they have a preconceived notion in their mind of what they think it is and a community number of things. Usually it's
                                         
    
                                        Either ghost stories or slashers like that's about all they kind of connected to but yeah, you know, it's so much more
                                         
                                        Oh, yeah, the genre especially in the last couple of years is really shown just how beautiful and varied
                                         
                                        the horror genre is
                                         
                                        Horror genre because you can like it can be drama at its highest order
                                         
                                        I just recently rewatched the witch to and then you like watch something like that and you're like
                                         
                                        And that's a historical drama because we're on last podcast
                                         
                                        We're doing the Salem witch trials and you see just how much work
                                         
                                        He put into that movie to make it like a real piece of history like a chapter
                                         
    
                                        Talk in that old English style
                                         
                                        At first it's like what is this like if I don't get and then you're just okay
                                         
                                        I'm immersed in a world where people all talk this way and you have to you have to perk up and pay attention
                                         
                                        And to enjoy that movie and I know I've seen stuff where he's kind of ashamed of that movie or something
                                         
                                        Or I ever
                                         
                                        I was crazy. He said the same thing about the Northman too
                                         
                                        He also was trying to walk back to the Northman because he was like, oh, you know, it's an action movie and I was like, yes
                                         
                                        It is
                                         
    
                                        Yes, it is. It's a wonderful
                                         
                                        But it's saying that he that he had trouble like I didn't know how to tell a story when I did the witch
                                         
                                        I was like you just need to come down
                                         
                                        Look at it again because you've told a brilliant story
                                         
                                        A beautiful story beautiful story. Yeah, do you do do the same as a director?
                                         
                                        Is that the thing like do you watch your own work?
                                         
                                        Like when you go like do you watch it afterwards? Do you like it still or you're like, I never want to see
                                         
                                        boy two again
                                         
    
                                        Oh, that's good. That's a specific
                                         
                                        I love Brahms too. This is don't worry. You're about to get a series of boy questions
                                         
                                        I mean every movie, you know Ron Howard, I saw something where he said
                                         
                                        You know being a director every movie is going to break your heart at some point and it's really true
                                         
                                        But it's also kind of like I guess I don't have kids but that and I not that I won't but
                                         
                                        But you know movies are kind of like your kids like you can't really choose necessarily and I always know what the intentions were
                                         
                                        Or I know
                                         
                                        The behind the scenes or the politics
                                         
    
                                        So so I look at a movie that I've done sometimes with rose-colored glasses
                                         
                                        Because I might not see it just the way a normal
                                         
                                        Public viewing audience would see it, you know, I've got yeah all the other scenes on my avid or I've got
                                         
                                        Oh, yeah
                                         
                                        You see the other all the movies it could have been you see all the different yeah, and um
                                         
                                        and something like the like Brahms in particular was one that
                                         
                                        That we've I've never had a situation where you know at the last second the studio came in and completely
                                         
                                        uh
                                         
    
                                        Changed the movie sort of and really oh, yeah, and um, but
                                         
                                        That wasn't the only kind of problem with that movie
                                         
                                        But it was definitely the biggest problem because you know, yeah, I bet and it happens
                                         
                                        How does that process happen because it's like I do want to just talk about love of the boy
                                         
                                        I want to ask this but like in terms of that like because I've never made I like I've made
                                         
                                        Independent films. I've always been on the talent side of it versus like the creating part of it like and the editing
                                         
                                        So when you submit your film
                                         
                                        So is that idea is like when the when the studio comes and change everything like did you hand them like all right?
                                         
    
                                        We're done
                                         
                                        Guys we did all over work
                                         
                                        Is it like that where you get a picture lock and you do all of your own sounds and posts
                                         
                                        Is all the posts done too by the time you send it to the network and then they just do whatever they want with it
                                         
                                        I mean, it's it's slightly different, you know, depending on the movie and and where it is
                                         
                                        Like and we may like the film I just did in london lord of misrule with ralphine sin from the witch, you know, um
                                         
                                        Man, he's on fire dude. He's on fire. What a fantastic actor the way to you see him in this movie because it's it's
                                         
                                        It's the most complete character since the witch. I mean, he's he's you know
                                         
    
                                        It's a full character in the movie that but anyway, um
                                         
                                        You know that movie I'm locking picture this
                                         
                                        Next week or two
                                         
                                        And and finishing the sound mix and stuff like that
                                         
                                        But we haven't sold it to a distributor. So when the distributor comes on board
                                         
                                        They may crack the movie back open and you never know and and it's oh seriously
                                         
                                        They can do that like the distributor does that. Well, no, they do it with me and but oh, okay
                                         
                                        It's kind of like, you know, it's with every movie. It's like well now let's spend some more money on this
                                         
    
                                        Or let's try this or have you thought about this and it usually is a good thing and um and sometimes
                                         
                                        You know, we go I go through the whole plot. It's not just my cut
                                         
                                        It's every cut I oversee and the sound mix and every aspect
                                         
                                        But in the case of that movie bombs in particular, um
                                         
                                        The company that was producing the film went bankrupt after 30 years making tons of move, you know, lake shore
                                         
                                        They made underworld they made
                                         
                                        Yeah, million dollar baby and million things and um and they just you know, it's just they were they were too big
                                         
                                        And uh, they went under so all of a sudden you had no producers and then the studio
                                         
    
                                        Just kind of cracked it open and
                                         
                                        They're like we want to mix and changes because they thought my god and then you're and and you're like
                                         
                                        Basically, your production company daddy is gone exactly the person that was supposed to be cradling this through that person
                                         
                                        Who's probably it was? Yes. Yes. And so then after I watched it. I was like, have you guys seen what they did?
                                         
                                        No, actually, we've not seen seen it like we don't have like they're not involved anymore
                                         
                                        So it was just literally you never know when a movie can get tweaked in this huge long process
                                         
                                        And that's why I'm so paranoid all the time paying attention, you know
                                         
                                        I mean it was the same way devil inside was that way like there was a tweak
                                         
    
                                        after a year of
                                         
                                        Beating up that movie and testing it so many times at the last second
                                         
                                        The president studio made a change that went down and you know kind of movie history as as a
                                         
                                        You know putting up that card at the end of the devil inside
                                         
                                        was a last second idea that
                                         
                                        the only thing we never tested in that movie and
                                         
                                        And he even you know told me later that you made a mistake
                                         
                                        He meant for that card to happen after the credits
                                         
    
                                        But it was like you didn't say that and it was one of the last directives that the studio asked us to do
                                         
                                        Anyway, it is and then it just changes
                                         
                                        You know it can affect the whole oh the entire movie because the ending is one of the most important
                                         
                                        Parts of the movie because it's what the audience is the last thing they see
                                         
                                        And so it's the last memory they have of what it's it's difficult. I mean, I'm not complaining. It's just
                                         
                                        It's it's tricky. It's a lot. It's yeah, and especially if you're trying to do movies that
                                         
                                        Are going to be seen by a lot of people, you know, then you've got a lot more money
                                         
                                        Be involved in a lot more politics because people are very worried about that money and the marketing very much so
                                         
    
                                        So then
                                         
                                        You know judgment and then you can have your whole 90 million dollar movie thrown on the trash for no reason that you worked on for a year
                                         
                                        And now it can just go away
                                         
                                        even
                                         
                                        Yeah, I already done. I mean, that's a shock. It's already I've been texting with every person. I know
                                         
                                        in the film industry that we're all like
                                         
                                        There's no way that's going to stick, you know, I mean, I feel like we've seen
                                         
                                        Lately especially and I don't think this is what they're doing, but there is, you know, where they'll send out kind of negative
                                         
    
                                        You know, like, oh, we're going to be low in cherries this year for the, you know, uh food season
                                         
                                        And then everybody goes out wants to buy cherries, but it was like they were never going to be low on cherries
                                         
                                        So all of a sudden we're talking about that girl like it's the
                                         
                                        The must see it does work. No, it does work everyone. It's true
                                         
                                        But it's true because then everyone's like now I gotta see this movie
                                         
                                        And then you like and then we're all gonna sit there for the 95 minutes of a essentially a cw show and just be like
                                         
                                        Well, I'm glad
                                         
                                        How I feel is I'm just glad that everybody gets paid and everybody's work gets seen to me
                                         
    
                                        It's like I just know that how many the most
                                         
                                        Talented artisans in the world get paid all of this money just have to work
                                         
                                        shelves I really do feel for the people making the costumes
                                         
                                        And all of that shit, you know, like I said, I really believe knock on wood in the system or whatever that that movie
                                         
                                        Can't be gone, you know, and you're gonna see all this crown swell and I don't understand why now, you know
                                         
                                        Like why you don't release it on hbomx, but yeah, it makes no sense
                                         
                                        It seems like it's a reader. It's you know, it's fascinating
                                         
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                                        So I wanted to ask so we actually he was kind of funny that because when we got we were talking about like
                                         
                                        Because you were out here promoting the film
                                         
    
                                        But we actually just had this conversation on our show about the difference between
                                         
                                        Orph literally orphan and the boy about how that it's kind of like we it was a jokey conversation
                                         
                                        But the breakdown of like no one's an evil child turn adult movie
                                         
                                        One is a
                                         
                                        object treated as child
                                         
                                        Movie and that you can't know the ending of the boy because you don't want to do but like but my question is
                                         
                                        What do you see as like the difference between these things like any of like in the in the sub genres of horror
                                         
                                        How do you break them apart?
                                         
    
                                        You know what's interesting is is I would probably say that you know
                                         
                                        The comparisons more Brahms a guy in the walls to to ester, you know
                                         
                                        You know that was what in the show
                                         
                                        We didn't want to spoil the ending of the boy who hadn't seen it like we were like but now this is patreon
                                         
                                        So they're gonna you're gonna have to know that like the boy's not the boy
                                         
                                        Yeah
                                         
                                        And and and so the sociopaths of the psychopath the human
                                         
                                        Um, it's really just about what what what sliver of this their life story we see so in the boss
                                         
    
                                        We see
                                         
                                        the story we see which is mostly about these parents their coping mechanism, right and um,
                                         
                                        And then we reveal like it wasn't just a coping mechanism
                                         
                                        Um, there's more to it the same thing with you know orphan. It's like
                                         
                                        She's a little girl, but she's not she's she's actually this adult sociopath
                                         
                                        We've just never delved as much into Brahms's story as we've seen her
                                         
                                        Do now two full movies and seen a couple sides to her so
                                         
                                        So there are it's there's a lot of similarities
                                         
    
                                        To me certainly on like my the things that get me excited about horror
                                         
                                        Well, I like anything the innocent on its head
                                         
                                        Is one of the you know, it's such a it's good to say part of horror forever
                                         
                                        But like when you went to go to design the boy. Yeah, like no
                                         
                                        Yes, the doll the boy like how how many options did you go through and how did you choose?
                                         
                                        What the optics were because we had was another kind of conversation
                                         
                                        We've had ongoing on last podcast about like Annabelle, right how I actually prefer
                                         
                                        Oh, sort of like the actual Annabelle, which was a raggedy and all and it's super plain
                                         
    
                                        And then the movie when they make it a little bit more elaborate
                                         
                                        Where I think the boy is a really good down the middle
                                         
                                        Like it's just a good old-fashioned creepy porcelain boy
                                         
                                        Well, you know and that to me is um scarier than if that boy was making an evil face and
                                         
                                        Yes, I had you know, um, you know forget the fact that obviously Annabelle
                                         
                                        Was was in the zeitgeist around them as well. So whenever the studio wanted me to make him look scarier
                                         
                                        Is that a note that they give you like?
                                         
                                        Yeah, like make him scare shouldn't he and but I'm like no, it's like
                                         
    
                                        Damian from the omen or the two twin brothers from the other or
                                         
                                        These characters are
                                         
                                        Cherubic like sweet kids and but they're holding like a knife behind their back and if you get close enough, they'll slit your throat
                                         
                                        But and so I tried really hard to make him look
                                         
                                        Um as those dolls did in that time, you know, kind of beautiful and and innocent and um, but you know, we used real
                                         
                                        Fake eyeballs like eyeballs. Yeah, you know, it was I mean the amount of the changes and the
                                         
                                        Variations in developing him, you know, it was super intense and it was an oh, I bet
                                         
                                        I think it was the the when we did the camera test three days before shooting his hair was
                                         
    
                                        terrible it looked like uh, he looked like a
                                         
                                        Like a male figure skater. He had this
                                         
                                        Hair was like had these wings
                                         
                                        And that wasn't like what the design was but it's what the wig looked like
                                         
                                        And so the night before we're in there like, you know
                                         
                                        Having them cut his hair a certain way going. Oh, this is a nightmare
                                         
                                        Like if he shows up like it changes everything then um, and it turned out good like uh, we on the shooting day
                                         
                                        He was like, ah
                                         
    
                                        That's that you treat the boy like he's a little cast member
                                         
                                        Like is it like do you have to like do like set the tone like when you're doing something scary like that?
                                         
                                        Like how do you make everybody kind of feel the weight of it?
                                         
                                        Or do people like goof around because I feel like there's kind of different ways people run horror sets where like
                                         
                                        It's on one side of it's super extreme. He tends to be like a lighter set. Yeah
                                         
                                        I mean, you know, he was kind of treated like a cast member for sure. I mean and
                                         
                                        You know, here's what's funny about him on set
                                         
                                        You know, he has different looks based on what's happening in the store, especially in second
                                         
    
                                        We was in the dirt
                                         
                                        but
                                         
                                        He's over there and we put him in a chair and I've got great like, you know behind the scenes photos of him
                                         
                                        but
                                         
                                        But not only is he is he just sitting there waiting to go on camera and of course you get used to it
                                         
                                        You feel like he's a he is a cast member
                                         
                                        But like based on like how his hair was we needed it to you know, like be
                                         
                                        Style a certain way so he would have little clips in his hair
                                         
    
                                        Like so that his hair would you know curve a certain way when we let the clips down
                                         
                                        So it would be like he would be waiting rollers, you know in between tanks
                                         
                                        So it wasn't heavy or anything, but it wasn't like goofy. It was like
                                         
                                        And he's careful with him, you know, because he's he's
                                         
                                        somewhat fragile depending on which version of him he is
                                         
                                        But yeah, you know, he's uh, and he just sitting there, you know getting
                                         
                                        Lit for a scene
                                         
                                        The other actors are across from him and it's really no different, you know, it's kind of like a stand-in except
                                         
    
                                        There is no person to fill the space. It's just him
                                         
                                        Because you as an actor you're supposed to technically you've been given the directive of like well
                                         
                                        Like I love the interplay of the that's what's so good about the boy
                                         
                                        Is the is the is he real like that feeling of like, you know, like you could watch them kind of play that process
                                         
                                        Of as he
                                         
                                        Became real. Yeah, which is pretty great. Yeah
                                         
                                        How how did Brahms the second one prepare you to do this new movie?
                                         
                                        So orphan first killed so this is like so you've done a sequel or or like
                                         
    
                                        Yeah, how does this prep you like I mean, obviously they are different structures
                                         
                                        But like is there something about like because you didn't make the first orphan. How do you like
                                         
                                        Continue that story
                                         
                                        Well, you know one thing that's great is the first movie holds up so well, you know, and I mean there's a quality to it
                                         
                                        That's dated that we kind of wanted to partly lean into both in the look and sound of it
                                         
                                        But um, and it had such a such an exceptional
                                         
                                        level of casting, you know for for a horror film
                                         
                                        For a movie then so you're like, okay
                                         
    
                                        we have
                                         
                                        To some degree the answers to the tests, you know, especially when isabel was officially on board and we knew you know
                                         
                                        And I knew like other than the technical aspects of making her believable or you know in the story
                                         
                                        We have you know, the actress who knows better than anybody
                                         
                                        You know how to bring to life his character, but as far as the look and feel it's like
                                         
                                        Part of it is like when in doubt look at the original film, you know, yeah
                                         
                                        It was like that with casting, you know, like bringing on julia
                                         
                                        To me was a really like it's the same kind of level as uh, vira farmuga, you know, um, and it's like, uh
                                         
    
                                        When you know when it was just normal creative conversations and people like oh, what about this casting choice?
                                         
                                        And it's like that doesn't really
                                         
                                        Live up to what the original film was so always going back and pointing to the original movie because it was so good
                                         
                                        and being able to lean on it on every level to make sure that
                                         
                                        You know, we're doing things more in a unique way from the original film
                                         
                                        But at the same time it still needs to be that dna so
                                         
                                        And and the boy movies definitely prepared me for that for many reasons because it's similar
                                         
                                        There's a lot of similarities, you know in the in the
                                         
    
                                        In the look and style. I feel like in the tone
                                         
                                        There's like there is similarity in tone, which is like I feel like it actually does allow you to move pretty much directly from the boy
                                         
                                        To orphan. Yeah
                                         
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                                        Would you feel like now that there has been we talked about this a little before and you said that people have brought this to your attention
                                         
                                        The story of natalia grace that was this this story that we covered on side stories quite a bit
                                         
                                        But they and they're real
                                         
    
                                        A real tiny person. Yeah pretending to be a child. Yeah, like I said, you know, you know in vintiana
                                         
                                        these
                                         
                                        Right now it's so popular to watch
                                         
                                        Movies and series in particular about these charlatans, you know, whether they're creating
                                         
                                        We work or
                                         
                                        You know something like the
                                         
                                        inventor and
                                         
                                        And I think the love of the con man is a slightly american aspirational
                                         
    
                                        Idea because I think it kind of brings up the idea like it's the very core of the make money from nothing
                                         
                                        Yeah, I mean American ideal. Yeah fake it till you make it and then what always fascinates me about
                                         
                                        Those stories and the story like natalia grace and a story like like ester or lina
                                         
                                        um is like
                                         
                                        These sociopaths, you know on different levels and they all are
                                         
                                        um
                                         
                                        Like what are you thinking like what what do you think is the end game here because you can't sustain this?
                                         
                                        Eventually, you're not like natalia grace. You're not going to grow up and then they're going to be like what's going on
                                         
    
                                        What's your deal? Yeah?
                                         
                                        Like when you cut her hanging out playing dominoes and smoking shit like she's like that character from the simpsons
                                         
                                        Like yeah, which I love and it's yeah, so to me. I'm just like, yeah, you know like
                                         
                                        Um, I get it as a as a means to an end. Maybe you know like
                                         
                                        With ester, you know getting to america. It's a great way to get to america and to slip through
                                         
                                        Whatever people were looking for this uh an adult and so she slips through the cracks as a child
                                         
                                        But how long, you know, do you think that can last and how many times you're going to continue to do that same thing?
                                         
                                        And I feel like with the characters like this their lives are probably probably very painful as normal adults
                                         
    
                                        And yeah, so they slip into these lies
                                         
                                        But like I said those lives aren't sustainable
                                         
                                        so
                                         
                                        When are you gonna learn from lesson?
                                         
                                        A lot of times you see these guys, especially pathological liars people that have a
                                         
                                        We see it's like some version of an antisocial personality disorder like whatever is in under that umbrella
                                         
                                        A lot of times it's the only way that they feel anything like they legitimately have a block
                                         
                                        They only feel
                                         
    
                                        They feel nothing like there's nothing registers and the only thing that does register is upping the stakes
                                         
                                        Of your current life
                                         
                                        Like you do things where you try to fuck with the system
                                         
                                        Because it gives you a reaction finally. Yeah, and you know
                                         
                                        It's kind of the reverse of something like um, is it munchausa syndrome?
                                         
                                        Is that where you were you know where you were you?
                                         
                                        Well, you've got the child. Is that well, yeah, they've got the two different. Yes, it is my yeah munchausa by proxy
                                         
                                        I believe that it's like the idea that you have the it's the mom keeping the kids sick
                                         
    
                                        kid kind of leaning into the good, you know, it's this sort of inner world of of
                                         
                                        I put it just mental illness. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and and um, and so, you know, someone like tally grace. It's like
                                         
                                        As an adult is she ridiculed in some way that it's just really her but as a child she gets to be the smartest kid in room and
                                         
                                        Oh, yeah, she gets that's great. You know, yeah, she's you know
                                         
                                        She's brilliant and it's the same way with ester, you know, she's you know, and we talked about like
                                         
                                        Esther's past. I mean, she's 31 in this movie 33 and the other so she's got 20 years
                                         
                                        Back and oh, yeah, she's supposed to be you know, but like go to college and she tried to go to college and did she
                                         
                                        You know, uh, was she 28 and fell in love with her t. A. Her, you know, teachers assistant or
                                         
    
                                        But got laughed out of that or something and you know, like and then decided, okay, I'm gonna go back to acting like I'm a kid again
                                         
                                        Like who knows how many times she tried to become a normal person and it just didn't work out and being exactly to do it
                                         
                                        I don't know. And people positioned her already as a little kid. I think that there's a little bit of that too where she looks like a child
                                         
                                        And so people kind of treat you as such. Yeah, absolutely
                                         
                                        And like you said, she just deals with it like a really brilliant child
                                         
                                        Yeah, like so you get nothing but positive validation. Yeah again
                                         
                                        Yeah, very thought about this now. Maybe this is kind of this is out of the box
                                         
                                        But if you thought about maybe doing a tie-in
                                         
    
                                        Uh to the orphan orphan to first kill
                                         
                                        Where you go to orphanages and try to find and suss out these fake children
                                         
                                        These fake children and that you do it yourself
                                         
                                        You and Isabella
                                         
                                        Go from orphanage to orphanage and you get three of them with the pair of parents, right?
                                         
                                        And you try to find out which is the secret adult
                                         
                                        It's a right. It's it's like, uh, it's like a dating show. Um, you know, who is the fake child?
                                         
                                        Who's the fake child? Who is the fake orphan the, um
                                         
    
                                        That's something we haven't thought about and it's like it is one of those great like, um, off
                                         
                                        Outside the box
                                         
                                        Ideas and a publicity, um
                                         
                                        Scenario I think that we should try it. No, I think I'm gonna put money into this
                                         
                                        Well, what's interesting to me is is because there's more than Natalia Grace. It's like, oh, yeah, how how many especially, um
                                         
                                        adopted
                                         
                                        Orphans from another country who are coming in as
                                         
                                        Even at 12, but they're actually 18, you know, um, how much of that is actually happening
                                         
    
                                        And how many of those girls, you know, bless their hearts are hoping maybe I will sleep with the dad and get a green card
                                         
                                        And you know, those types of things that's rough. Oh, yeah, I'll tell you what man
                                         
                                        I don't believe I actually think that it's up to 75% of orphans are fake
                                         
                                        Yeah, well, especially yeah, I'm actually I'm pretty I'm that close. I think 75 to 90%
                                         
                                        Of orphans are adults
                                         
                                        Pretending to be children and that's I wish we could stop it. I wish we could stop you mean and you don't miss you mean
                                         
                                        They still could grow up not necessarily. They have a condition that will keep them a child forever
                                         
                                        Oh, no, no, that's why they have to wipe out the parents
                                         
    
                                        Yes, they have to wipe out their own parents that they just get in there and then restructure and then become somebody else's orphan
                                         
                                        Yeah, I mean, you know
                                         
                                        It's it's not that far, you know from from other scenarios that we know are very real, you know
                                         
                                        I think I think so. Do you think that between the boy and orphan is the reason why you probably why you don't have children?
                                         
                                        I think because you just can't trust them
                                         
                                        Yeah, that's part of it in a way. Yeah
                                         
                                        You know what it did for me. My wife was we need to talk about kevin
                                         
                                        Yeah
                                         
    
                                        Yeah, that stopped it because we were like we're good
                                         
                                        We're like we're relatively normal and you could still make a crazy one. Oh, yeah
                                         
                                        um, and you know, it's a cross between either them being crazy or you know
                                         
                                        They could you know, I could have easily been very, you know depressed and um, and just sad
                                         
                                        or yeah, you know
                                         
                                        I I I joked like I tried to kill my stepmother once now. This is uh, not really but like when I was like
                                         
                                        She was a kind of step monster to me and um
                                         
                                        And so I put hairspray on her toothbrush when I was like six years old
                                         
    
                                        unbelievable
                                         
                                        You can't trust these kids. I cannot trust a child
                                         
                                        Yeah, I think that's I think it's what we know for certain
                                         
                                        I'm very scared of them
                                         
                                        It's certainly what these stories are leading into, you know that fear that you can't trust a child
                                         
                                        Or you can't even trust that a doll's not maybe real or um, or that it's doesn't have a life when the lights go out, you know
                                         
                                        I mean, there's there's a lot of
                                         
                                        aspects
                                         
    
                                        It creeps me out man
                                         
                                        Because I have that I have one of these like I have this like chucky mask above like right on the side of me
                                         
                                        And it sits in a way that it's right above my chair
                                         
                                        And so when I come if I have to go to the bathroom at night or whatever they coming out
                                         
                                        It freaks me out two or three times a week like I see it. Oh, yeah
                                         
                                        Well, and that's that's part of the fun too like a tour of of you know, creating scenarios that feel
                                         
                                        Grounded in a fairly normal life to where you know, when you leave the movie, you're not off the hook, you know
                                         
                                        You still yeah, yeah
                                         
    
                                        Or when you're friends watching the movie, you know, you're still in the middle of the night and you go to your bathroom
                                         
                                        Uh, see the chucky mask and it scares you three times a week. You know, that's amazing
                                         
                                        It's a goddamn orphan
                                         
                                        Dude, so orphan first kill comes out august 19th. Yes
                                         
                                        Very excited to see it. I can't wait. I know our people are gonna love it because we're all I'm gonna say we're orphan heads
                                         
                                        I mean, it's a movie made very much
                                         
                                        It's kind of a love letter to her and to fans
                                         
                                        You know of her. I mean, you know, it wasn't just a movie made just to make a movie. It is a movie very much made
                                         
    
                                        With and I'm a fan, you know with to go. Ah, yeah, like I'm gonna I mean, you'll see
                                         
                                        I'll always spend more time
                                         
                                        with an orphan
                                         
                                        I can't wait, but thank you so much Brent. Thank you so much for talking to me today
                                         
                                        And we'll put up a little link and I'll let you know when it goes up great man. Thank you so much
                                         
                                        Thank you again to all you patreon listeners for every single thing that you've done
                                         
                                        Now all of the delicious duckets that you have given from your hot wet little pockets
                                         
                                        To our big wide cold
                                         
    
                                        Dry pockets and I want to say thank you
                                         
                                        Thank you so much
                                         
                                        Hail Satan
                                         
                                        Go watch orphan first kill. I know I'm going to you know, I like this shit and it's gonna be it's gonna be great
                                         
                                        Get high as hell
                                         
                                        Drink a bunch of beers
                                         
                                        And hopefully an orphan does a little bit more mayhem
                                         
                                        because
                                         
    
                                        God I need it
                                         
