Last Podcast On The Left - Side Stories: NXIVM

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

You asked for it: On this episode of Last Podcast Side Stories, Ben 'n' Henry cover the Albany sex cult that has been making headlines. Also, journalist Brock Wilbur joins the show to discuss his own investigative work on NXIVM and his efforts to pull out the members that remain clinging to the cult. We'll be back Friday with another main episode of LAST PODCAST ON THE LEFT. Hail yourself!

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. On the left. Right above your glass. That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? Oh, yeah! Oh, oh.

Wait, I just have to get ready to do a show. First before we start our show. Okay. Because that noise, when I make that noise, I can feel my bottom relax. Uh-huh. Alright, welcome to Side Stories, everyone. I'm Ben Kissel with Henry Zabrowski. Sitting on a spoon.

It's like I'm a parfait. You are a parfait. Filled with yogurt. But it's all brown. That's something you want to go to the doctor for. Henry Zabrowski, alright. It's just you and me, man. That's what I like about the Side Stories.

It's just fucking you and me locked into it. It's like if we're flying a plane together. You can just hear the passengers screaming. Right, right. Which is also stories we could have covered this week. Because plane travel was horrific. It's sort of like the end of the movie, The Thing. Which one of us is The Thing?

By the way, I do know the answer to that. Carpenter has told the truth on that scenario. It's Kurt Russell, right? No, it's the other guy. The other guy you can't see is Breath. He's not sweating at all. Is he ass to ass in it? What are you talking about?

He's the guy that's ass to ass from Requiem for a Drink. Oh my goodness. I've blocked that scene out of my brain. It's horrific. That's the break. That scene is ridiculous. We are going to a next week's episode. We're going to get into this horrific van terror attack.

That took place in Toronto today. Dude Alec Manasian, he says, he wrote on his Facebook page that he honors and loves to worship the supreme gentleman, Elliott Rodger. From all accounts, this man is an incel. So we're going to get into, what does that mean? Is incel a terror group?

We're going to debate it. If it is a terror group, then it's the only terror group that I know that I could face alone with a tennis racket and beat the living fuck out of every one of them. one of them. Absolutely. But today we're going to talk about the biggest week, biggest news of the week. It's cult news, ladies and gentlemen, it's Nexium. We've had a lot of people reach out about this. Yes. And it's very interesting because obviously the first intention grabbing thing that comes out about it is

Allison Mack from Smallville group Smallville. She is tastefully dressed in a lot of the pictures of her premieres. She's been in like five or seven things. Right. She's a relatively known television actress. Yes. And apparently what she was recently arrested for what seems to be human trafficking and that led back to a possible charge where she was a part of an inner group within the cult of Nexium. Right. That branded women in a weird sexual pact where people had to give their pictures of their nudes to be held over them. Right. To be released and then they were in a weird slave-master relationship. And this

was all done under the guise of course. The pictures were then supposed to be used later as blackmail in order to keep these women silent from the horrible treatment that they had to endure there. This is all under the guise of feminism, which is interesting. And we're going to get into some of the different things that Nexism, nexism, nexium, nexium. It's like the allergy medication. Oh yeah, nexium. Right. And then nexium silver for when you're 55. Hey, not bad. But there's a lot of 55-year-olds in this. There's a lot of tight milfs in this group. All right. Honestly. Well, we're going to get into that. So they had

different kind of umbrella groups. Some focused on yoga, some focused on feminism, some focused on financial success, which is really where all this began. And a little bit later on in this episode, we're going to be interviewing Brock Wilbur, who wrote a great article for Paste magazine. And we're going to get some insight from him into what the heck does human trafficking actually look like? What are we really talking about here? It's it when you like take over like a bus. Like if I were to take a box cutter onto a bus and like put it to the knife of the driver, is that am I then a human trafficker? And I'm taking

them on our own or am I just then an involuntary bus driver? Well, I think if you took a knife to the neck of a bus driver, we're going to have to wait and see. We'll ask Brock that question a little bit later out of the episode. Thank you very good. Also, this story's been around for a long time. Yes. Nexium has been around since the late 90s, right? Started as several different groups to start of one thing. It was executive success program. Let's do this really quick. Let's get a little background into Keith Rainier. Who is this Looney Tune? So this is just a dude like anybody else born in Brooklyn in 1960. He has been

lying his entire life. He proclaimed that he was the he said in 1989 he was in the Guinness Book of World Records for highest IQ. Henry did a little fact check on that. And in fact, he was not. It was actually a woman named Marilyn Vos Savant that was technically in the Guinness Book of World Records. And she held a rank of highest IQ from 1986 to 1989. But the other thing is that IQ, the idea of testing an IQ is also such an antiquated idea. But he predicated his whole life on the fact that he was a super genius. He apparently taught himself high school math, graduated from college when he was 16 years old. Right. He is an

ubermensch. Everything that he says you hang upon every word that he says, even though he's a fucking blank moron. And he joined a group called the mega society, which was apparently a group for the most distinguished of people, the people with IQs listed at 175 and above, which apparently according to the newsletter makes you the most boring person to meet in an elevator. It's his whole I was reading the it's called NECIOS is the name of their their fucking newsletter. That sounds exciting. It's not. Oh, it's not. The first thing was written by a guy that went under the name of it was called introducing Qui-Gong to a friend

written by Mesa. His real name is Kevin Langdon. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Introducing whom? Quiggle. Quiggle. To a friend. Yes, it's a friend. And in here, according to his article, first it off, it starts with a quote from Dylan Thomas. Oh, rage, rage against the dying of the life. Oh, that's what it says. And then it says, a cliche quote. Yes. An 89 year old internet friend asked me how we should begin to learn and practice the Chinese arts of Qui-Gong to improve and maintain his health. Okay. Although I'm not an expert or a master. I wrote the following. You're not an expert. Why are you teaching people? I don't know. It

seems to be dumb. It does. So just going back just briefly, the one thing we do know, he did graduate again, Keith Reneer, the head of all of this. And we're going to get into Nancy as well, his secretary, who is now the president, who is extremely, she might be even worse. Who knows. He did graduate from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York in 1982. In 1990, he founded consumers byline, a multi-level marketing company. And then he co-founded executive success programs. And Henry, I'm right in saying that sort of laid the groundwork for what Nexium would become. Again, the executive success programs.

Well, this is where the real story kind of begins. Because in 2003, Forbes magazine did a article about Keith Reneer. Yes. It could be Reneer or Reneer. I think it's Reneer. But he did an article about how he helped one of the executives at BET get where she is. He helped Richard Branson. And Forbes wrote this, this like article about like, is he crazy or is he a genius? Literally the cover of Forbes, it says Forbes. And it has a picture of him looking like Bob Seeger, just like looking into the sunlight. Into the middle distance. Yes. And the, and the caption is the world's strangest

executive coach. Keith Reneer's rich and famous clients pay thousands of dollars, bow and call him Vanguard. Yes. He goes by Vanguard. And what this started is it was MLM. He would teach these better business bureau bullshit classes about how to be a good CEO. And MLM is the what I had actually looked this up, because it's the idea of like, basically, you sign up for a bunch of classes at $5,000 a pop. And what you do is you sell more classes to other recruits. And then different, the more classes you you sell, the shinier sash you get, which is true, you they all wear different

color sasses, depending on how many. And that works your way up into the hierarchy of what was ESP, then became Nexium. And it's all very unrandy. It's a emotional Ponzi scheme. You're just you're just selling like the idea that you're a better person than them. With a according to Vervanity Fair article that came out later on about his re his connections to the with the the Seagram family's billionaires, which is very interesting, is that he talks in very a solipsistic and vague, impenetrable language. And basically, the main thing you say is that like, where's got to

win? And you got to scrape off the fucking parasites. And in a way, he's right. I mean, not really, because he is currently arrested by the federal government for doing over human trafficking. Yeah. So basically, they just took iron Rand, although my understanding is none of these courses even mirrored Rand's writings. I don't think that they even read the fountain head or any of these other things. And I and Rand read it and then take like 5% and then insert that into your life. If you ever meet one person who is like 100% into it, they're either a cultist or Paul Ryan and Paul Ryan.

Thankfully, I'm just so glad that he has some time to rest. I know he's been working so hard for so long. I know it's he could just sit back on his beanbag chair now and just and watch some ESPN threes, watch some ping pong and do some curls because that's the only exercise that he does apparently. Yeah, he does P 90 X. He's extremely in shape. And I believe we should do an or next episode on P 90 X. It's a cult. Get out of it. It's a call. You're not better than me better than me because you jump around your living room all day. I do the same thing. And it's called yelling at myself. It's motivated. There is a 12 point

mission statement. That's what this group has. And you can go and read these yourselves. They're quite long. But number two is as Henry was alluding to and you can just just Google the 12 point mission statements and you can find it right there for yourself. But number two, going back to what Henry was saying is there are no ultimate victims. Therefore, I will not choose to be a victim, which is a good tenant. If you do plan on branding people against their will. See, yeah, you build it in. Exactly. And honestly, this is really good. Well, once we start doing if we ever do subscription service for last

podcast, it's good to start baking these little things in. So we're never held culpable for any problem. Again, arrested by the federal government. Looking at life imprisonment. Alison Mack, looking at 15 years to life imprisonment. He went to Mexico looking for a relaxation. You know what he found? Nothing but trouble. That's very good. Good reference. And also to that point in South America, this nexium cult is still thriving. They're doing very well. Evidently, none of the negative articles that have been written about it have been translated into Spanish. So they're out there still thinking like,

Hey, this guy is he's got all the goods. And of course, inevitably, those are some of the individuals that are trafficked to upstate New York and and treated absolutely horribly. You say traffic. They say commuted. I don't think they just put him up there. You didn't tell me it was going to be an upstate New York. Albany. This is where we're doing our cult. Good. It's interesting how you could see the slide, right? Obviously, we went on a bit of a deep dive for this information. You can find it out there. There's a wonderful the Vanity Fair article called the heiress in the cult was the heiresses in

the cult was very interesting. Our friend Brock's article called the knife of Aristotle that we get into is very interesting. Yep. But a part of it is the at some point in 2003, it was mainly business. Right. Yes. He was connected with the I believe it's a Bramford sisters. How do you pronounce their last name? They're brought the Bronfen. The Bronfen. The Bronfen. It's literally B R O N F M A N and I'll tell you what it is. It's that F. They stick right in the middle. Bronmen got it. Bronfman. Bronfman. It sounds like you have to be drunk off of Seagram's Gen to say where the Bronfman family is met. My wife her

name is something Bronfman and I don't care because I'm the decider. So why do these women matter? Claire Bronfman and Bronfman and Sarah, they have billions of dollars in a trust and they gave him again Keith Reneer over 166 million bucks basically right away. Yes. Basically, he showed up. So how so how it seems to be is that somewhere in 2002, his old company was called Consumers Byline. Okay. Right. Once that fell apart. Once that fell apart, he was looking for Annie also was getting restraining order put against his former girlfriend that went by the name I believe of Tony Natalie. Okay. Interesting. Two first

names. But she she attacked him essentially like he ruined her life. She was a part of them watching this transition of when he started finding he started ESP. He hooked up on the Bronfman sisters essentially because Sarah was I'm going to use the term lay about that was just spending the family's money. Just eras. Actually, they make Paris like you see Paris Hilton doing her DJ work and you're like you're you're staying busy. You're actually a go getter for an eras. At least she has to be at some place at a certain time. Yeah. When you're DJing you have to show up 45 minutes beforehand and you got to set

up all your shit and do the sound levels. So that's a job. She ran a sky diving company for about six months and that was it. And her sister Claire was a horse jumper champion horse jumper. But they were sitting on billions upon billions of dollars and they had nothing to do. They hooked up with Renear. He was like I can tell you exactly how to spend this month. Exactly. Goodbye me at house. You could help me figure out because he fucked up a bunch of money on the commodities industry lost millions of million dollars and then he's paying for it. But at some point it turned into sex. At some point he was

collecting these little millionaires is like these people like desperate people. Alison Mack got nothing more desperate than an actor in between gigs. Yeah, evidently she was down on her luck and looking for that's how all this stuff works down in their luck. Look looking for the truth. You could pay me 50 bucks to eat peanut butter out of an old hubcap right now in between jobs. Actually, you did something worse than that on MTV and they think they paid you 250 bucks when you had people eat beef jerky suspenders off of your body when you were nude. But that was funny. But going back to punishment going back to what

you were talking about with Tony Natalie. She called Edgar Bronfman and told him that her that his daddy that's because the daddy was like so the story there's a whole side story with that about how Sarah and Claire were like they came from his like fourth marriage. Yes. So they were like 15 years separated from what they considered to be the real Bronfman kids. Are you telling me that he didn't have a close relationship with his children? This out of touch multi multi-billionaire? And they also had his money. They just had his money that they could just go they could borrow against their assets. It's like all of

this shit where they were working around his and he's like what what's happening and they're like you know that your daughters are like fucking this guy in Albany. She's like in Albany? That's the part he was offended about. No, she says she called him immediately. She said I told him Mr. Bronfman you need to get your girls out of there. It's a cult. Reneers bad. If you don't get them out in a few years he's going to burn through all their money. He's going to sleep with both of them and he said no no not my girls. No they won't do that. They did. Immediately did it. Immediately did that. So you know it takes a lot like

how do these things begin? How do you how does a cult like Nexium grow? It's because of people putting their head in the sands and just refusing to believe that someone could be as evil and as manipulative and inevitably as dangerous as Keith Reneer. It's very interesting to see how these people were normal. Allison Mack was just an actor. Right. All of a sudden she's now wrapped up and said we want to play some of the footage of what she sounds like now. It's like this is this is an interview yeah that she did with Keith Reneer that was put on to YouTube that through first channel to show just how miraculous his

teachings are and see if we can make it through about 30 seconds of this. This and before you want to just to fucking pull your car off the highway. You get that Tom Cruise Scientology vibe from this all the way. So this is them talking about authenticity and what does that mean? I mean it kind of leads me to my next question which has to do with authenticity because then it seems more like the creativity comes from a place of just originality or authentic like soulfulness if you're looking at it in the positive light. You know authenticity and creativity are an interesting match. We don't like to think of ourselves as

robots and if you are coming off as robotic most people say that somehow inauthentic there has to be an inauthenticity to that because we're now robots so what does it need to be authentic when someone's authentic you feel them you have this this feeling of a soul there not a robot not some pre-programmed contrived face or something along those lines it just seems to come naturally from their experience of existing on this planet. From the time they are conceived and they become a child and grow and all of this thing they gather this unique impression of existence and authenticity somehow is a

manifestation of all of that. All right that's good. And it also relates to you. Excuse me sir. Do you want a cold brew? Yeah exactly. Do you want a cold brew? Do you want a hot brew? I don't know sir but you're gonna have to get out of this line. You've got to get out of Starbucks it's just the guy in the corner muttering to himself never asking what he's thinking but that's what's so interesting it sounds also it's kind of sounds like Pennsylvania bar talk at a very nice country club you're like I figured it all out. But it's like 3.30 in the morning. Yeah. But that is one of the ironies of all of these cults whether it be well not so much Jonestown they

spoke more about the community but when it comes to when it comes to next to him his whole thing was individuality and he's branding people with his initials. Well it led to a jump to that because if you could see the fractal logic where he becomes like it's because it's about embracing your victim hood and he's just improving and when you I caught to another there was another private there was another private conversation that someone had recorded of his yeah it's the same kind of circular loop talk he looks like a guy Natalie and I were at a party the other night in LA and a guy that is a famous polygamist

like he wrote a whole book about it they look exactly the same it's the long kept hair slight graying five o'clock shadow with the big glasses super calm right and always touching your girlfriend's fucking knee right every 30 seconds it's a move it's a pull it's a it's a polyamorous move where they touch the knees and I don't like it you don't trust it so this whole thing was spiraling and then eventually he just let the ladies go and form this thing called DOS okay which stands for Dominus obsequious sororium okay so it's the which is a translates to Lord master of the obedient female companions and he

just let these women kind of go and it was a bunch of actors okay actors are just the worst at Colts because they jump right into a role that it honestly they are they do do well with actors the acting type people who have that kind of personality we're empty yeah your sponges for other people as ideas I suppose every day I go to work and I'm like hi my name is Thomas and they're like oh really like no my real name is Henry but it's like but you just lied and it's like my job is to lie I'm never me so and yeah Jim we do back to your other point Jim Jones earned his fucking followers this dude just somehow got

these waspy women to just join up and give him all his money and I guess he's just good at eating pussy well I have no idea and I don't want to get into all of that because I don't think any of that was on the up and up he's just an LL bean catalog come to life and it turns out that that plastic sociopath looking individual on the cover is indeed a plastic sociopath I'm gonna say I'm gonna I'm gonna correct you I'm not saying LL I mean I agree I don't fit me none of their clothes fit me so I'm saying a Patagonia he's got he's a man with an action sandal like you see his toes all the time I went into by the way

I did just go shopping I got three new jackets from Rochester big and tall three new dress shirts as well and stop bragging to these people we're trying to get their patreon money from them we don't want them to cut us off thinking that we're getting too big for a bridge no I promise you I can't I can't shop anywhere else and everything was on a big discount that's why I walked in there but speaking of cult recruitment man their eyes light up when I walk in you should see when I get into a Rochester big and tall I've never felt pretty in my life usually if people approach me it's how big are you how

fat are you what do you weigh oh I had a I had a young mentally challenged brother that looks just like you you know stuff like that but when I walk into Rochester man I'm like I'm like Claudia shiffer did no you're the you're Allison Mack to Keith Reneers he thought he was like it's like I know how to fix you she's like well you get me through pilot season whatever it fucking takes but apparently also with Keith Reneer he doesn't sleep he does not sleep at night he sleeps all day and then all night he walks his compound with his coterie of 15 to 20 women that he all fucks and he talks about mathematics

and mysteries of the universe he's like Kramer from Seinfeld so in O3 we'll go back I want to get back to what Henry was saying but just just real quick to just bring us up to a little bit of speed here on the timeline in O3 there was this first litigation that's where Nexium sued the Ross Institute the Ross Institute alleging copyright infringement for publishing excerpts of content from its manual in three critical articles commissioned by cult investigator Rick Allen Ross Ross posted a psychiatrist assessment of Nexium's secret manual on his website the report called the regime expensive brainwashing

the manual was obtained by Ross from former member Stephanie Franco a co-defendant on the trial who signed a non-disclosure agreement not to devolve information from the manual then after that he was on the cover of Forbes this is where he starts setting up all of this other stuff all of these other yoga classes business classes feminism classes and now we come to the point where Allison Mack is teaching God knows what well they apparently it starts off as would you start to see is that the sashes allowed you to get deeper and deeper into his inner circle okay and he pulled the Bhagwan where he pulled away

from everybody and now it became super special to be near him the only people near him pretty much are the Bronfman sisters because of how much money they put in and it's and the people that he will that will directly allow him to have sex with him and apparently he has a lot of showings of and the way DOS started was that they wanted to they they're he pins it on Allison Mack that it was her idea oh it was this actress's idea oh Bill those hold the whole thing wow interesting and also we'll begin to that but she it started off as this thing being like well you really want to be close to if you want to be close to

Vanguard you have to be clear so we'll show up when we do these side meetings where you give me these pictures of you masturbating and you just to show trust to show trust you're gonna give me these sure and then we're gonna do a series of exercises that are gonna be more and more in need of your time and energy like a lot of physical work a lot of like doing yard work and shit like that and then it flipped into tonight we're gonna have a special dinner and they're like okay and the six girls that were considered to be like of the elite of DOS we're like we're gonna see how much pain you can take because a woman's life

is pain and she needs to accept it she needs to accept and own the being a victim of others and so they lay them down pulled out the fucking cauterizing wand and zap them with the initials which didn't start as the initials Keith Reneer immediately said these are never supposed to be my initials it was supposed to be a magic symbol I created but they slightly adjusted it to look like my symbols as a tribute to me oh really oh what a coincidence very much so coincident but the idea is that these women that were talking about they were in this room as they're sitting there just being like oh fuck how the

hell I get here right I was just because it was it started off as a group called Janess which is again very Scientology it's very a Scientological in their in their thinking right where they do these little groups and all of a sudden becomes it's another name it went from Janess to DOS and they didn't realize it and then DOS required you to get fucking branded so if you that's the thing so you sign up for Janess you're in there for feminism and to have some self-empowerment next Monday you go to class and all of a sudden no this is DOS now and or DOS now and everything has changed and when by the way you're

gonna get branded on Tuesday but my question is it's isn't that different than Gwyneth Paltrow using her goop thing to say stick these eggs up your pussy like you have to purchase those and then don't do that by the way that's extremely dangerous extremely we don't know anything yes we know not the only thing I know is because every woman I've ever known in my life was like oh yeah never never do that so I don't this is not a female hygiene podcast because we know nothing about male hygiene let alone female hygiene but but anyway so just let's just catch up to speed here and then we're gonna have Brock Wilbur so

in March 2018 Keith Reneir was indicted on federal charges after being arrested in Mexico on sex trafficking charges following his arrest Reneir went to Texas to face charges of sex trafficking and forced labor in New York State on April 20th for 20 2018 actress Allison Mack was arrested and set to stand trial for sex trafficking based on her role as a recruiter for nexium so now we're gonna interview the author of this paste article the knife of Aristotle isn't just a fake fake news site it's a cult and his name is Brock Wilbur Brock thank you so much for joining the show gentlemen thank you for having me all

right so thank you for having us can I say that yeah that's nice so the first question that I have is we hear these terms sex trafficking human trafficking sex slavery they're trigger words they're they're obviously very effective words can you explain what does human trafficking look like in reality what does sex slavery look like in reality specifically in the context of nexism of nexium because when I think of human trafficking I think about a bunch of people being thrown into the back of a semi truck and dropped off on random doorsteps like an Amazon delivery so what does it actually look like so this

is it starts from a it is a power position thing first the specifics of it go they go in a lot of different directions and there are some that I can speak to and some that I still cannot because they're still God someday the light of truth is gonna come to these things and we'll figure out what happened there basically what has happened within this group is that a lot of women got sold out especially by other women which is a fucking nightmare of a thing to break down in that way and and you have this idea of giving power over to a man to control you but also there is a lot of this that is it is

framed in a consensual way where there are a lot of people that were just like working at this cult and doing great work in say like bringing in other people but sometimes they'd be like well you're doing great work in the Brooklyn branch but you're from Vancouver so why don't we arrange a marriage to one of our members of the cult here so you can like stay in the country so it's like there's a lot of it that's like green card couple stuff which isn't when you hear that for the first time you're like that's not that's not that sinister but when you hear people's first person stories especially about like okay so

like these are these people became my family and forced me to exercise the rest of my family from my life and then one day they were just like you're gonna get married tomorrow so that you can keep staying here and doing the work and these people would be like these women would say stuff like do you really think I should be getting married and no one would fucking answer them about stuff and there's just like this level of emotional betrayal on top of everything else that's happening here that's like that's there's sex trafficking there's controlling people's lives and then there's just this total sellout of

everyone who you think loves you left in the world being like f-fuck it like just if you can keep telling people that acting is gonna help you find heaven then we'll get that money from those people and that'll be fine and that seems so much fucking worse so when you use this analogy of somebody I think you said Vancouver or Toronto and Brooklyn just does the person start out finding about finding out about next to them they live in Brooklyn and then at some point maybe six maybe a year maybe a year and a half into being a member of the cult then they kind of throw this at them and be like oh by the way you're

going to some random place perhaps you know Canada to marry somebody is that how it works we we talked about this together about sort of how like the cult has all these different fake outreach groups that like they don't lead to any real jobs but the acting one at least starts and it's frustrating because acting there are so many acting classes including ones I've taken that that break you down in the same way and it's like get to the root of who you are let's talk about the truth of the of the person and the ethics inside of you it's it is in inseparable from fun it's hard right because I did the same thing when

I was in acting school it's the same shit where you're supposed to cry in front of everybody and it's very emotionally vulnerable and you're selling all of these like kind of secret stories about yourself and you could see how it immediately segues into you're now living on a compound and you were just doing check off I don't know if you're watching Barry right now in HBO but that's triggering every one of those memories inside of me too well yeah I mean that's why of course why there is that sort of joke more of a joke about UCB although I do think there is some truth to it when it comes to the

cult of UCB you go through the classes right class structure you're never going to be a famous actor or actress most of these people just continue to take the class over and over and over again and give these schmucks who don't pay any of their performers a bunch of cash so it it is sort of so that that is the initial breakdown process is that why you think someone like an Allison Mack or actresses or actors in general would be so susceptible to this I mean actors are broken we're just looking to belong that's all the whole point of it is that you want to be part of a cast there is part of that but there is part of and

this is the I can go down the road with you right now just like shitting on UCB for an hour and we would have fun with that well it's a pay to play society yeah I'm we're all on the same side here yeah yeah the truth of the matter is that like the the thing that shines through everything that they do is that the truth of the matter is that everyone wants to do something good and thinks that they're making the world a better place and sometimes if you have a pitch that is like we're gonna figure out something about you and that's gonna lead to like a whole country of people doing better and if you can sell that to

people fuck you've got them for life and it was what almost got me to join them as an extension of a company that they had like the idea that you can do better and make the world better is we're all susceptible to that and that's why so many smart brilliant incredible people get drawn into that but then there is also the acting side of it where and and this is what will blow your mind some of the things including the journalism sites that they found me through were formed by actors just sort of improving around their ethical like set of instructions that they started with they're like we have just the set of

ideas about ethics and like what could they apply to in other businesses and they let their actors sort of pitch those ideas and one of their actors who I've interviewed was like what if like we just did the same thing we do with like improv but in like fake news yeah it makes total sense though because it's a subtle idea well just just one more question when it comes to that what did how was that recruitment like for you they found you and and sought you out and then you were almost gonna go up to Albany right so my thing was that they offered me a job and then they were like before you start this job come do five

weeks of non-paid training in the woods in Albany first Albany I didn't do it but I have talked to people that did do it and they were like day one they're like this is a vegetarian building so they start doing like classic cult moves of like breaking down your protein structures and stuff so by day three you're just jello and scrambled eggs up in your brain you're like I'll believe in whatever you need to believe in but one of them told me that they also used a cell phone blocker sorry with that time so that no one could text in or out and so one guy that I was talking to his story is that like on Thursday a week

one he was like I just realized if I showed up on a Friday morning I would lose the rest of my life to this cult there'd be no coming back from it so I just ran for the train and as I was running for the train I got further and further away from the text blocker and texts from my family who had been researching this cult all week started coming in and they were like keep running everyone in that town is actually a part of the whole world like a hot fuzz wicker man situation for him he was like oh I've never run faster in my life oh my god that's what it seemed like is that he was acquiring more and more

buildings and land around his little compound and eventually and he was just putting his people in it which is it's very interesting he's very I mean it just shows what money can do and if only if only kissle because this is really good ideas for last podcast in the future I never would ever do that one question I have is about Nancy Salisman and Allison Mack now so now with with Reneer I mean Reneer's in jail Allison Mack's in jail they're all kind of cool near heels Allison Mack's just about to flip five million dollars bail oh yeah she's about to flip on them she has been given over to the control of her parents which

considering that she was arrested in Mexico at Keith's crazy resort down there and has insidious money seems like a flight risk maybe well yeah and it's interesting it it reminds me of that Wild Wild Country series when you talk about buying up land that is very similar to what Osho and the Reneeshe's dead yes it's very similar and now that the bridge to that is so Nancy Salazar and and Allison Mack like how much power do you think that they have like now like now that they're kind of out there it's like is Nancy still in there is she's still in the mix or is she out of nexium Nancy is in charge Nancy is running it

now Nancy also has access to all of Keith's money was hidden under the names of the various women that Keith was with so it's impossible for the government to go after that money right now so that's just Nancy's money and Nancy was always way fucking smarter than he was and Nancy was always way smacking she she has a background in in hypnosis which is the thing that broke so many people in this process she she is the person that should have always been the cult leader she sounds like the mom from get out now she has infinity money so I'm the the big thing is that like I'm just so fucking worried right now because as I've

explained to you guys before like people that are left in there are just the real fucking like entrenched like there's no way they're coming out people and now you have somebody else who just inherited leadership of a cult after waiting patiently for 20 years yeah what she does is make a butt load of money and disappear tonight or she's gonna turn this into a suicide cult or like some other much worse thing happens but nothing nothing fucking good government and so it's why it's real important that we shine a line on this right now is it is it a fair comparison to say that Nancy souls so as the Salisman is similar

to ma non Sheila from from that Wild Wild Country dog absolutely it's a one to one comparison I is it's bad to say that I'm just glad it's happening in Albany of all the cities in the world just because such a terrible place for every single reason last I guess my my my last question is where do you think it's gonna go we got as we talked about on the phone yesterday do you think this could be another gonna Jones down yeah Jones down or a wake up what do you think you guys were right actors don't want to do shit yeah hope that the actors at least will commit to this role yeah as soon as it comes down to

telling an actor to kill themselves they're like oh wait a second no I mean I'd love to die in a film is there not is there a script where I can die I mean because a death scene is incredible and I can nail it I can do a good dead eyes I could do a dead face but I can't really die because pilot season's coming up well thank you so much is there anything else that you want to ask Henry that's it for now I mean I feel like we're gonna end up following this case again I think we're gonna do an update so it loves to have you back Brock if we anytime and and I'm continuing to do my stuff I spent a year following people around and

trying to bring some resolution here the project I was working on is dead but it will live on in a different version and I'm working on that now and we are really hoping that the whatever I do here is not in terms of trying to get attention or anything is in pursuit of trying to get the last people that are in there out and so if you are in the cult right now or if you've just left or something please fucking reach out to me we are trying to do some good right now today right now today please reach out how can they do that Brock oh I'm at Brock Wilbur on Twitter I have a website there just yeah find me on

Twitter find my email like please reach out and let us help you help other people yep absolutely you're all you're the victims in this you know a lot of these a lot of these members are the victims and all of this so thank you so much Brock really appreciate it man see you bro is it weird to say is it weird to say that I'm not like I don't want anything bad to happen to the people in nexium no when it comes to a cult it's like in my mind it's been like I mean it's gonna play out any way it's gonna play out and at this point it's true what Brock said whoever's left is a fucking lifer anyway but my concern is

because they are actors they learn the rules of yes and and I think they've been yes and themselves to the point where they're still there I don't know man I think that these people are very susceptible to taking up arms against the ATF or the FBI whoever decides whatever government organization goes in inevitably to break this thing up or taking their own lives I think it's possible I think it's very fascinating and I think now for listeners that are really interested in it's like do the reading about it the website that is really what we were talking about the Frank report is a really good breakdown

of all the cockamamie side stories that are attached to this cult it is there it's obviously it's a story that's still blossoming which we're gonna update and we're gonna follow and see what happens with it yep but I hope we laid it clear enough for you because a part of it's like it's just it's kind of like when we started doing Scientology of the Scientology episodes is that it's hard it's so hard to get into the very center of what the actual actions of the cult right and so you think about how did it take 20 years before this guy actually got brought to justice first of all you have to have a lot of

evidence and that has to happen over time and second of all even if you think something is going on to prove it is so hard also up to a point when they're not hurting specifically people outside of the cult if it's all consensual if it's a bunch of people then it's the it's that central issue of wild wild country is that can you attack a group of people for what they believe in even if it's total fucking horseshit and it's run by a dweeb that lives in Albany yep I know the that's always that's always the conversation freedom of religion versus protecting innocent people oh man but yeah so many sinewy just like 45 year

old tight women just all over really fantasize wrap it up Henry is fantasizing here thank you guys so much for listening to side stories really appreciate it shoot us an email at the last podcast network at gmail.com with a story you want to cover it doesn't have to be this heavy it could be something a little bit lighter as well whatever is on your mind we will at some point hopefully get to it we're just gonna try to follow the current events and see where the weeks take us the only branding I'm looking for it honestly is Verizon just somebody to get in there and really and do some cash

injections into our lives you know I mean yeah we can do the hail like hail AT&T section of our oh yeah sure yeah yeah I don't know if we can coin that well maybe who knows I'm alright everyone thanks so much for listening hail yourselves hail Satan this has been awesome see you fuckers