Last Podcast On The Left - Side Stories: Weaponized w/ Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Ben 'n' Henry sit down with Filmmaker Jeremy Corbell (Hunt for the Skinwalker, Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers) and Investigative Journalist / Radio Personality George Knapp (Coast to Coast AM, Hunt for the Skinwalker) to discuss their new podcast "WEAPONIZED" and to break down their experiences investigating the UFO phenomenon.

Hey guys, it's Jackie Zabrowski and Page 7 and Wizard of the Bruiser are going back on tour with the Release the Butthole Cut Tour. We're coming to your town, hold it, where are we going? Salt Lake City, Denver, Colorado, Las Vegas, we're going to Portland, Oregon, to Carmel Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can they find tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com. What's that again?

Lastpodcastnetwork.com. Hell yeah. There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk on the left. Side stories. I love your glades. That's when the cannibalism started. Side stories.

Side stories. Yes. Hey, what's up, everyone? How are you doing? Ben, Gisley here, hanging out with Henry Zabrowski. You don't know me. I do. You've never known me.

You've never asked the real questions. Today's episode. You've never really buried in. You just think time's spent, but we are, oh, you got to interview me, man. Fantastic. Today's episode is a very special one. We are honored to be joined by Jeremy Corbel and George Knapp. They have a podcast called Weaponized.

Henry and I have a fantastic conversation with them. I know you guys are going to love it. Learn a lot about UFOs. And just speaking to two people who have been in this field for a long time. So enjoy the conversation and we'll see you on the other end. All right, Ben, hanging out with Henry today. We are so honored to have with us two absolute legends in the field of you. Folligy.

It's George Knapp and Jeremy Corbel. Their new podcast, Weaponized. Make sure to check that out. Thank you guys so much for being on the show. Good to be here, gents. Thanks for inviting us. Yeah. Thanks so much, guys.

It's a true honor. I can't believe it. Honestly, I've got like, Jeremy, I've loved your work and like what you brought to the new world of ufology and kind of like, it's kind of like neo-ufology. I feel like it's finally starting to get like taken serious. You know what I mean? Like it's starting to, it's a less, the X-Files theme has played less on the news. Yeah.

But I'm next to these stories. It's, it's an interesting time. I mean, look, I think like you and like a lot of people, it's a super fascinating topic, but it, we didn't always have the ground that we're standing on now where there's all these acknowledgements. So it's a kind of interesting time to just be involved in this subject, you know? It's crazy. And then George, I was like, I've been hearing your voice for so long because I'm a coast

to coast head. I've been told that it's like, it's so nice that finally, and I will say seeing it over Zoom, your office is exactly what I hoped it would look like. It is for the audience. I can't see. It is just, this is a real ufologist's office. It is documents are everywhere, documents are everywhere, files, files, files. I definitely know where you're going to die.

It's interesting when it comes to ufology, you guys have been doing this for so fricking long. And as Henry said, now it's mainstream. How does that make you feel? Because for us as like horror nerds, sometimes when everyone gets ahold of it, they fucking ruin it and they make everything something and you're like, we've been studying this for 50 years, just listen to us and they still don't. It's kind of a mix for me.

I mean, when I started out in this back in the dawn of time, 33, four years ago, you know, my, my main goal was to try to try to organize it to the, you know, you look at the UFO field and back then as today, it's a mess. I figured, give me six months and I'll have this all shaped up here, figured out, well, you know, three decades later, I, we still don't have answers to any of the big questions. But one of my goals back then was to try to get my fellow journalists to take it seriously because it was even worse then than it is now as, you know, it didn't get much serious coverage and mostly it would play the X-Files theme or ET phone home and make jokes about

funny UFO people wearing tinfoil hats. So that has happened to a large degree. But it's kind of a mixed blessing, I guess. So many new people are in it. So many new journalists are now taking it seriously, mainstream media outlets taking it seriously. And you can see the learning curve, right? For a lot of them.

I'm really glad that they're finally paying attention to it, but there is a steep learning curve as you guys really well know. You have, it takes time to get your head around this stuff and to figure out who the players are, what's true, separate wheat from chaff and it's, you know, it's a daunting task. George, I have to ask, so you said you were like, you got into it, you're like, eight months, I'll write a book, we'll move on to the Kennedy assassination. Would you have gotten into ufology if you would have known what a long, strange path this is?

Hey, that's a good question. I'm not sure. I mean, it certainly changed the course of my life. You know, I think probably I would have ended up being an anchorman somewhere, maybe working for a network. But I think the, my interest in this subject kind of put a cap on my career. There's only so far I could go, believe me, I understand I've felt the cap as well. Oh my goodness.

That has nothing to do with your love of aliens, Henry, that is a pure talent based prejudice. There's some prejudice in Hollywood against me, but you know, it's exciting. I mean, I never thought I would live to see this day where Congress members of Congress are speaking openly about it, calling for hearings, demanding answers, calling a Pentagon people on the, on the carpet where they acknowledge there are actual investigations underway. They acknowledge previous programs and we're, we're on the cusp of some really big breakthroughs. I think that we can talk about the next hour or so.

Absolutely. Um, and Jeremy too, because you volunteered because you went from, you were an artist and then you jumped into ufology. Did you not see, because we talk about it on the show all the time, about how ufology ruins lives that people get involved. It's always, you know, ufology kills love. It destroys love. It's, I don't know why, I don't know what happens.

So like, why did you end up like, what was your jump from like, just cause you were an artist, right? Like you did video art and something and then you jumped into ufology. I feel like there's two things you can tell your current wife to make sure she leaves you. Number one, I want to get into standup comedy. Number two, ufology. Yeah.

We, we got a tip jar in the house and anytime I say podcast or UFO, I'm putting money in it. She's, she's a wealthy woman. You know, I didn't think about it from the perspective of it's going to ruin my life. Sure. Sure. Of course. I thought about it.

Like I had always had this kind of guilty pleasure of wanting to know, you know, honestly, was Bob Zart telling the truth. That's all I, that's where I started. I was just like, if what he described is true, then the aspect of distance no longer matters. We know there's intelligent life in the universe. We know probably with more time to advance than here on planet earth, but that doesn't mean they're, they're coming here. You know, I bought into the idea that distance was the ultimate limiter, that the speed of

light was the ultimate limiter. So even though there's a universe that has probably just teaming with life, there's no way that anybody is coming those distances. And then I realized from what Bob Zart said, if what he said is true, then the distance, the idea of distance is, is completely irrelevant. So that was kind of my gateway drug into UFOs, but it was always just something I personally was interested in, wouldn't talk about, I was a partial athlete. That's all I ever did.

But then one day, and I say this kind of seriously, like I got weaponized, dude, I got, I went from like, oh, passive, just consume information to like, no, I want to fucking find out. And that was started the road of moving from the art career that you talked about, which is really just necessity. I got really sick, but it was just turning from that, grabbing a camera. I realized my camera was my passport. People would say shit to me. I couldn't believe they wouldn't tell their family their wives all of a sudden they're

spilling beans to me. I was like, that's powerful. Whatever this object is in my hand, even if I turn it on or not, it's like there's something about it. And so that was for me really getting into is just personal interest. I never knew I'd report on this stuff, especially with George. I had no idea I was going to do that. I just wanted to do that.

That's fascinating. The, the one word that stood out to me during that statement you were, you were making is the word if, because isn't that the ultimate crutch of all of this? If they're telling the truth, isn't that this is a real question I have to, I'm along these lines where it's, you're like, okay, you were looking for the center of a question that, you know, you start off on this question of like, Bob Lazar is a perfect example, right? Where it's like, even if a chunk, even 2% of what he says is real, it opens up a whole world, like an alternate history to the United States of America, all this type of shit.

But like when you're constantly circling, like I was listening to your recent episode where you talked about the UFO, the guys going, the crash retrieval guy, like talking about like, like, how do you suss out? What is real? What is not? How do you get to the center of that circle? Like after all of these years and like, or undo you, is that, is that literally that spiral?

The reason why everybody goes insane in the middle of working on these subjects? Well, let me put it this way. You know, I've put this question to some of the best minds in the world who've investigated this subject matter over a longer period of time than I have. Is it knowable? Can we get solid answers? They all seem to think yes, but we still don't have it. All the biggest questions from when I started more than three decades ago, we can't answer

any of them. Where are they from? Why are they here? What's their interest in us? What's the nature of the relationship between humans and whoever they are? Are they extraterrestrial or something else? I mean, there are a lot more exotic combinations and explanations that are now on the table that were not part of the conversation when I started.

Back then it was, you know, the dominant paradigm was if they're aliens, then they're in fact space aliens. They're extraterrestrials. They're jumping in spaceships and coming here and visiting Earth from somewhere else. But as we know now, there are a lot more exotic possibilities and there might be more than one answer. The fact is, we don't have any answers to the big questions. Even if there are crash retrievals, if there are spacecraft stashed in some Lockheed warehouse

somewhere, it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to be able to prove it came from Zeta Reticuli or interdimensional or as a time traveler. I'm not sure that anybody knows the answers to any of this stuff. Well, you mentioned Lockheed Martin and obviously, again, weaponized the name of the podcast. What do you think, Jeremy, when it comes to the fact that perhaps these large corporate oligarchs might be in control or, you know, have their hands on this technology? Isn't that kind of scary? Yeah.

I mean, you know, here's the deal, man. Today I know more than I did yesterday, so I agree with George. Maybe some stuff is unknowable, but my motivation is that today I do know more than I knew yesterday and I'm confident with that information. Not all of it, you know, is public. We report on maybe 1%, 2% of what it is that we do looking into these things, trying to suss out like you're talking about what is reliable information, what is not. We've been exposed to a lot of information, but what we can report on is the stuff we

feel really, you know, strong about. So, you know, look, these, it is fact. It is just fact. Whether or not we can prove that or whether or not you believe that, that there are aerospace corporations and just Department of Defense contractors that have programs to study UFOs and some of them are hardware programs and that's just that. You don't have to take my word for it. I don't expect you to.

I do find it interesting, not scary, but interesting that that's the route in which, you know, our study of this stuff has taken. It's very obvious. One of the reasons is so that you can't FOIA or Freedom of Information Act request about this stuff. It's also a way to keep privacy. Remember in the Cold War, during this time period, when some of these events occurred, we're trying to straight up.

There was a race and there is a race to try to, if you buy into the basic idea that there's a technology from unknown origin, to try to reverse engineer this stuff for an advantage, a technological advantage and that is fact. Now, if, you know, consensus reality catches up with that fact, that's an interesting day. So I do understand why there is the secrecy and why these programs were still typed into these technology realms through private corporations, it makes absolute sense, but I do think we're living in a different era now and the transparency that is needed now is different than was needed back then.

Yeah. Like a conspiracy head, right? Because you guys, this is a couple of questions I want to throw in that realm too of like, where do you fall in those worlds? My mind, immediately, now that the US government is sort of coming out and saying, all right, now we're actively, we're doing it out loud, we're researching this out loud, we're going to show you guys how to do this as an arrow, we're going to do this stuff. My first instinct is like, these fuckers are just going to, now they just get to, they

get to do it out loud and still not tell us anything. And like, now they get to just kind of like be under their own blanket of security. Like, why, why should we trust them more? Why should we trust the US government more, government more now than before? And that's my question. I think it's the most easier for them to manipulate and lie in public. Agree. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

You know, I think that the truths that Jeremy is telling about, some of that is going to come out, but it's hard to tell only part of the story. Can you say we've got flying saucers and not spilled the rest of the beans about where they came from? It's going to be hard. And there are implicit, intrinsic national security issues involved with this. Because of our friend Jay Stratton, who headed the UAP task force, had said to me privately and now publicly, you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies.

This technology, all you got to do is have one of them. If we could build one of them and fly it, we win. That's it. We get it first, we win. It's the ultimate weapon system. And it's always going to be that way. There is always going to be a race for this kind of technology between us, China, Russia, maybe some other players as well.

So they're going to have good reasons for holding back a lot of the story on now and into the future. That's so fascinating. Because I don't wonder about that. That's like one of those where you're like, because I believe on some level, they believe they have something that is somewhere in a hangar. That's all you guys have been talking about for years, obviously. Somebody's got something somewhere, but I guess that's where like, I want to get to eventually

what did we just do? What did we just shoot out of the sky? And why does that? How does that all fit into all of this new to a new world of shit? Let's definitely get to current events here in a second. But when it comes to obviously weaponized, again, the name of your podcast, Mr. Knapp discussing how they want to make a weapon out of this. Is there what what weapon?

Because you know, when it comes to UFOs, when it comes to all of the abductions and the stories that Henry has enlightened me to over the years, it doesn't seem like there's some big, I don't know what weapon is even being used. Why is it? Why does it have to be a weapon? It's a great question. So look, if you look back at the origin of all of this stuff, what we're talking about are our materials that were fabricated in a way that was unknown to us, right?

So think of atomic layering, meta materials. But if you really go back to the core story of what Bob Lazar told you, whether you believe it or not, just think about that story. He was talking about a device that could produce gravity. This is a device that literally could produce gravity. And he made a couple statements like on the Joe Rogan podcast that if you could do this, if you could produce gravity, everything in science fiction automatically becomes reality. You know, force fields, laser, you know, weaponry.

So the idea of if this is true, if you have devices that can produce gravity, a gravitational lensing weapon, a directional gravitational weapon is the most destructive weapon of mass destruction humanly possible. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean that the craft themselves are weapons, but it does mean that the application of that technology to produce gravity is instantaneously classified at the level of weapons of mass destruction. And I think George and I can both tell you that from our private conversations and what we do know for sure is that our government is taking the UFO topic or puzzle on the level

of weapons of mass destruction. Like that is legitimate. That is fact. We know that to be true. So they also believe that we have hardware that represents this ability to produce gravity. Well, we better sit Hans Blix in there. He's got to find these weapons of mass destruction and we need another 20 year war against Saturn. What's your reaction to things so like current events, things are getting shot out of the

sky. We didn't know what they were. Well, you know, our stance was literally it was either garbage that they accidentally blew up or with some kind of private tech that they don't want to say that was floating around that's unregulated and that's where they swept it out. But there's this also kind of concept that we're in some form of drone Cold War, that we're in some kind of arms race for this like what is it? What's the term?

Is it intermedium or transmedium travel? Transmedium. Yeah. And but so what's your take on this? Because we talked a little bit as we we talked on the show about you kind of watched live the messaging systems of various intelligence agencies play out on on the news like you watched them try to figure out how to say it and what to do. And so you kind of it's kind of an education and and like how they handle something like

this or how they would handle something like this. But like what's your like not to kind of open it that far, but what's your take on what we just experienced and how does it translate because I feel you know that the Chinese has something like that, right, they'd be using it a lot more often. But I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't I don't know. OK, so look, man, the idea of Chinese spy balloons coming over the U.S. is is not a

new idea. That's something that's been happening for decades and decades. It was very much theater. It was my impression because of what George and I kind of know about this is that that was theater. The idea that we pop a balloon with a missile. I mean, it was it was pretty crazy. I also saw this messaging that was kind of twisted.

It was almost like a baiting of like, hey, this is stranger than balloons. And we didn't buy it for a second. Of course not. It was like, this is not how disclosure is coming. This is not what's happening. There's no way this is not. And people that worked on national defense that George and I know regarding the UAP or UFO topic straight up said to us, if this was one of the real ones, it would never be

on the news. So it made me really look at it differently, like, what is the message that is being said? Right. We always said it's going to be balloons. This is ridiculous. They said they changed the radar to include like smaller objects. We identified one as like a school project. George and I were kind of laughing to be honest with you.

We were in one of our episodes just kind of laughing about it. I bet your phones were just exploding like it's a thing where you're like, I don't know. Just leave me alone. I'm trying to have a Saturday. And when there's a celestial event, you know, just a normal thing or Valentine's Day weekend and people were messaging me. I can't even imagine. I was like trying to have a romantic time.

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. But I mean, look, the bottom line is that these, these are known things that occur and we're getting better at reporting them. So a lot of what George and I obtained and release, we're releasing because they have been hidden because they've been trying to use a certain mechanisms to obfuscate from New York, American public, what it is that we do know, but we are very aware that there

is a phenomenon that we're calling UFOs for lack of any better term. It's maybe a bigger phenomenon that includes UFOs and that our government is hyper aware of a number of these assets, these machines that are in our air that are not balloons. They know what balloons are. Absolutely. They know when balloons have certain flight patterns, they go with the wind. Okay. So we're talking about things that, as you said, can be transmedium, kind of extreme

flight maneuverability, can come on and off of radar, almost like as if it's at will, which is something that, you know, Commander David Fravor and Commander Chad Underwood with the Tic Tac UFO case, it was very interesting that there was active jamming from the object or the UFO itself, meaning it had some sort of technological intelligence and leg up. These are things that are not readily wanting to be admitted, but the truth is this. These things are being seen on a daily basis with an increased frequency, and that's not just because we have altered and upgraded our radar systems. That's because there is an increase in frequency.

So here's what is going on. Who are the operators of these vehicles or these objects? It's been going on a long time, but right now we're trying to get a better reporting process. Ultimately, George and I won't be dropping these, you know, releases and stuff. People won't be coming to us, I hope, because that kind of wounded method of reporting UAP with all of that stigma associated will be annihilated and we can look this problem straight on.

And that's what some people are trying to do. There's a lot of gamesmanship being played here, you know. For decades, the Pentagon has had sort of a don't ask, don't tell attitude about UFOs. They know, as everyone does, 90 to 95% of what's reported as UFOs are explainable, prosaic objects, balloons, trash, things of that sort. NORAD, for decades, would not look at that stuff. As long as alien spaceships are not inciterating American cities, they excluded all that stuff. They don't want to see it.

It was that Chinese spy balloon made them change their sensors so that they start picking up more of this stuff, and then they played some games trying to explain all this way. Well, you know, this is really the fault that UAP task force, why we aren't paying attention to Chinese spy balloons, because, you know, they're paranoia about UFOs and not wanting to hear about it and not wanting to answer questions about it has a lot to do with them ignoring a lot of other things that are flying around in the sky. Well, your work really pointed towards that idea that the, it's just a concept that blew my mind of like, a lot of these generals are Christian.

They're very Christian. Like, they're evangelicals, a lot of them. They're scared of the material, it freaks them out, which is that blew my mind. I didn't even think I'd forget about that, about like, we talked a little bit on last podcast as we go and cover history about human elements and how like the humanity of the people involved in these situations seems to really also, it drives policy. So they are, they don't want to poke that, that bee's nest because they're afraid that literal demons are going to come out.

That's what's killed the OSAP program, so OSAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program. That's the program that Terry Reed got $22 million for and funded. It ended up being the largest UFO program and investigation in the history of the US government that we know of. They had 50 full-time investigators. A lot of that effort, as you know, dealt with Skinwalker Ranch. They had a secret study going on there after NIDS, after Bigelow's organization.

They had government intelligence agents focused on that ranch. When the reports got out, when it got leaked that they're trying to establish a special access program, OSAP, sort of a permanent program off the books, that's when some of these generals and higher ups in the intelligence community found out all the different aspects. This is not just UFOs. This is not looking at space aliens. This is demonic stuff and monsters and all kinds of weird stuff. They were worried, number one, that it would get out and be a front-page story in the

New York Times, which it was, sort of. Number two, they're worried about Satan. This is satanic. This is demonic. We can't study this stuff. It invites and invokes Satan and invites him into our lives as if he's not, if he's real, he's here already. Yeah, exactly.

You live in Vegas. Yeah, the one thing we know about religion is they'll just fold it in, right? So they'll, religions will never die. That is a, they're amorphous and aliens will be the next to save. They'll be saved as well in the blood. But when it comes to the Pentagon budget, George, 800 billion bucks, Biden got more than he even asked for. Through your experience, through your year's study in UFOs, did you think that the main

research wing would come through the military budget and through the Pentagon budget? Or did you think there was going to be, like, what did you, how did you think this was going to look in a tangible sense? Yeah, I can see why if, if all the stuff that came out that OSAP had been studying of all those papers, 99% of which the documents that were produced have not been made public yet. If that all came out, it would be a hard thing for the Congress to swallow. And they would, they would ask some very tough questions about all the weirdness. But look, $22 million over two years, the 27 month period, they got an amazing amount

of work done. They're 60 full-time investigators, they produce the world's largest UFO database in that time period. We still haven't, the public still hasn't seen it. You can do a lot for that much money. Look at what's going on right now with Arrow. The Department of Defense has had to been dragged kicking and screaming to go ahead and fund Arrow and to build up an actual staff.

They've got three people. They made a big deal on this headline about establishing this office. Hold on, hold on. Our network has more people working for it than Arrow. Yeah. Why do you think that is? Is it because dead people don't talk, I guess, or if they don't exist, they don't speak? Is it just to keep everything mum?

Yeah. They really don't want to study this. The Congress had to force them to create Arrow, and then they dragged their feet for two years before they even hired somebody to work there. And they got one guy and two staffers, and that's it, and virtually no budget. So there's a big headlines all over the world about this new investigation, and they fund it like that, which is basically zero. The UAP Task Force, before that, had no full-time people.

They had Jay Stratton, who was the head of that thing, and no staff. They gave them six months to write a report for Congress, and nobody was working on it full-time. They all had other full-time jobs. It's preposterous. That's interesting to me. Jeremy, I have a question. Just when it comes to cover-ups, we often think, oh, maybe just a bunch of people are working

to cover something up, but isn't a cover-up also just not looking into it? Just having two janitors and someone making coffee, isn't that also a cover-up? It's a Will Ferrell movie. You literally just give it to these idiots, and then all of a sudden, yeah, that's why they do it. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, by design, because a lot of these things needed to be protected, by design, there's

this over-classification process, which really corrodes public trust. We've seen that. Things are over-classified. And so one of the methodologies of what we call or you're calling the cover-up is certainly just the pragmatic mechanisms with which these things are studied. One of Bob Lazar's greatest gripes was that this is not being given to the most competent people. He was like, admittedly, he's like, I'm not the most competent person to study this.

That really bothered him. And to this day, that bothers him. I understand that you can't just open up an atomic program to crowdsource it to the entire world because all those secrets come out. I get the basic premise, but there's always this level of you need to be honest with the people that you represent. And the honesty comes in, look, these events did happen. This is part of our reality.

Of course, we're going to keep certain scientific things back and behind the curtain because they can be dangerous for national security. I get that. It's a fundamental topic of that, look, we can now say UFOs are real. In the sense that there are objects of unknown origin that do fly with impunity in our restricted airspace. And that's an important sentence because that tells you there's a technology that's evading our national defense.

So with that said, we can say UFOs are real. We don't know exactly what they represent to humanity. We know they've been here a long time and we know that they tend to appear to display themselves as more technologically advanced than what we have. And we have eliminated that their US technology in most important cases, like the 2019 swarm events that has been eliminated. They were not our technology. So whether you call them drones, UAS, unmanned aerial systems, UAP, I don't care.

What we do know is that they were ours. And it's not ours. Who's were that? They were also eliminated, they were not China or Russia or any technologically advanced nation that we know of currently. So then comes the big question, which is that if they're not ours and they're not theirs, and by the way, at times we're both firing upon the same UAP and that is that. And we're going to report on that.

That was really interesting. And when you talked about that, because that's, that really points to, we're like, oh, so they're all shooting at the UAP. So it's not theirs either. Yeah. So just do a little clip note on that if you could. Yeah. So look, we're going to report a much bigger story to really emphasize this, you know,

with imagery, we're going to be able to show people exactly what it is that determines if you're going to fire upon one of these UAP and it's so terrestrial, it's crazy. It's like, do these things appear to have a payload? Like could it be carrying a bomb? Do these things move within a proximity of like 30, 27 to 30, something miles within ground troops? It's very like normal reasoning why you fire upon them. But when you get multiple nations having crossfire over these things and the public doesn't

know about it, that's a big deal. So we're going to report on that. I do think that it is, it kind of puts a pin in this idea that these aren't ours. So it opens the idea of what we need to find out. I'll give you another example. This is something we've already made public. 30 years ago, next month, I went to Russia for the first time. We found the guy who was in charge of the Russian UFO investigation, a 10 year long secret

program that had the entire Soviet military empire all reporting UFO incidents. Everybody, anybody sees a UFO, a ball of light, something strange, it all goes into one central location. And I found the guy that it was in charge of it. He told me that in that 10 year period, they had 45 different instances where Russian war planes went after UFOs, three of those instances where Russian war planes fired on those UFOs and those three planes crashed and two of the pilots died. So they, after that they issued the order, look, if you see one of these things, leave

them alone. They knew that we're studying it, we know that they're studying it, we're all, we're both sides are doing the same thing, trying to figure out the technology and we haven't figured it out yet. I mean, it just sounds like two dogs at a dog park sniffing each other's butts. It's kind of does. It's kind of just checking it out. I guess, and then do you think that maybe points to why like now we have all this modern

technology at our disposal and it, we're, we're heading towards this quote unquote, you know, UFO transparency and, but we were saying about how like these groups are still though like hesitant to actually jump into the subject. You think it's one because they just don't, I do think it's either because they truly just don't give a shit and they're, or they're afraid like that side of it. Or is there another kind of practical and we're like, at some point they're going to ask for results from us and I don't know how we're going to give that. Like, I don't know how they're going to give us money and then how do we tell all of them

we've done something with the money because if it, because the, as we know about the phenomena, it's tricky. Yeah. There was a trickster element. It kind of makes us, a lot of times I'm in the, in the Jacques valet school where that thing is like sometimes it's trying to kind of make us look stupid in the act of like trying to capture proof of it. So maybe that, is that a trap they're afraid to fall into and that that's, and they don't

want to deal with it? Like they, they don't want to talk about like this guy, like from Russia, who's, they did a serious, like the entire government, the entire serious, serious investigation. That's very, so why would you think, is it really going to be something like that? Well, I've said a lot of times that I think the closer we, the public and Congress get to the goodies, meaning the craft and maybe the bodies, the tougher the pushback is going to be. But anyway, if you had that technology, if you're a big aerospace company, you've had

it stashed away, studying it, pull it out of the closet every couple of years and see if you can duplicate the technology. It's miracle technology. If you can figure it out, you rule the world. Would you give it back? I wouldn't. And I think we're, we're, we've come a long way in the last five years, but there's still a long way to go.

And the next mile or so that we have to travel is going to be the toughest, forcing them to give that stuff back, assuming that Congress has the will to follow through on that is going to be really difficult. Well, and obviously with the red tape and just the way that the system is set up, it's really set up for a long process. And of course, God knows when it comes to, when they do release whatever it is, the word redacted will be said quite often. Right from your grave.

Well just to sort of blow it out just a little bit larger, when it comes to why, do you think that there's something innately nefarious about what we're seeing in the skies or is it peaceful? I mean, I guess, what is it? He's a Stephen Greer apologize. I'm not. I don't even know. See, I said we're Stephen Greer one time and then Henry was like Stephen Greer.

I was like, I don't know. He said that they were going to be nice. And I was like, oh, that seems cool because I'm stoned and everyone else is like, they're going to kill you and then they're going to take your eggs. He's selling us out. He's selling us out. I don't know. But either way, do you think they're going to, are they here to kill us?

Oh, you'd be dead, bro. Thank you. So they are. So they are here. They do come in peace. Unlike neutral. No, I don't know. Look, there's, there's so many paths you can go down.

We haven't even answered the first question that who are they is a great question. I don't know. I don't understand, you know, what we're actually dealing with and anybody that tells you that they do are full of shit. I mean, straight up full of shit, you know, you got to kind of be warned about that in kind of your own life, which is that anybody that says they're an expert in UFOs and people like label us that and we laugh because there is no expert in UFOs, you know, unless you've had some sort of long going contact.

But you know, it reminds me just because we're having fun right now, totally theoretical. It reminds me of a couple of different stories. The one is childhood's end, which is a book by Arthur C. Clarke. If you haven't read it, it's super cool to read. One of the reasons I thought this is an interesting metaphor is because in this book, you've got these ships that hover, just hover there over major cities for generations to acclimate people to the fact that there are these other beings and why did they do that? They had a little problem, which is that they physically appeared to what we would call demons,

you know, forks, tails, red bodies, horns, you know, a little bit of a problem when you're trying to be socialized. So, so there's my, my name is Blarb and I am here to be a financial advisor. Yes, I look like a demon screaming and running around you. Yeah. I mean, so it's like, there's one aspect to it, which is like the idea that there is a long, because we know the UFO phenomenon is this long ongoing thing. So part of my mind when I'm just kind of having fun drinking beers with some friends, you know,

just thinking, well, maybe there's this long acclamation process of just, you know, inspiring us to look one step ahead. And you notice that with UFO reports is that the technologies seem to be just beyond what we have at the time, almost like, check us out. This is something you should be aware of. So that's one theory is that there's this, you know, benevolent kind of program that I call the techno terrestrial, the idea that we are trying to be led towards an agenda of increasing our ability to be a technological hub for a much larger program.

And that's a really cool kind of thought experiment, this idea that we're just kind of being nurtured, humanity is being nurtured, possibly even seated, you know, in our genetics and DNA, which people have talked about, all of those crazy things. It's a cool thought to have, because everything is on the table right now, because we don't know shit. But then the other side, the darker side, you know, it's my view. My view. Yeah.

We raise cattle. And what do we do? We give them antibiotics if they're sick. We feed them food. We take care of them, but they are our food. And so that is another kind of way that people look at this matter. If you talk to military people, they're just default position is this is prepping the battlefield. And so that's, that's their ideas, not mine.

I want to be really clear on that, just talking out my ass right now. But what I am saying is that you can look at it either way. Interesting. The public likes to say, we can handle the truth. I hear it every day. Why don't they tell us the truth? We can handle the truth. And I think if the ultimate truth is these are space aliens, extraterrestrials popping

in and out to see this weird drive-in movie theater drama that's called humanity, we're ready for that, because we've been conditioned for that. But ultimately, the truth might be much stranger and much more disturbing than that. Let's say we are, the evidence becomes clear that we have been genetically manipulated and engineered over eons, over millennia, that they had a hand in creating the modern human race. I think a lot of people would have a real trouble swallowing that. God is a space alien, not a big bearded guy in the sky.

What if they are here and we are an experiment that is ultimately, they're harvesting us for something else, if not food, souls, something like that. We have something they don't need or that we're just an experiment and when their experiment is done, poof, we go away and they start it over again. And there's a lot of disturbing possibilities that have been raised by the experiences on Skinwalker Ranch that suggest manipulation of human events on a mass scale. The evidence is not real clear, but there is evidence that they've been messing with us for a long time.

They obviously have not attacked our cities like with giant laser beams a la Independence Day. They could, the technology that they have shows that they could. So what is their time scale? What is their time frame? Well, what's the ultimate, where is this experiment leading? There's some pretty dark possibilities and I'm not sure that people are ready for that. I don't think that we are ultimately.

That's interesting. Skinwalker Ranch was such an ultimate, because of all the other stories that we've covered over the years and you guys have covered over the years. So I always kind of view it as like, there's a neutrality to them where they really are, you know, you hear from abductees and experiencers and these guys talk about how like, they always say like, this is just an experiment, like the way they they message to them, be like, this is for your own good. We're trying to make it.

We're trying to create this bridge. But Skinwalker Ranch was one of those places where you're like, oh, this is actually, this is like a nasty thing. This is like a nasty thing. And do you think that this is again, we're all talking out of harasses. Do you think that? I think it's got a psychic component, like the phenomenon obvious has some kind of psychic component.

Do you think it's kind of like, it what comes out of it is what you feed it? Like do you think that's something like what Skinwalker Ranch where like that kind of came like it almost kind of gave into the negative energy and then people sort of like, and that maybe even because we have friends that do various paranormal research stuff that even something like NIDS could have inspired the phenomenon itself to be hyper agro. Like do you think that there's anything else that you've heard in your time that would point towards that or? I don't think so because that phenomenon, that intelligence there has been there a long

time way before NIDS. It's been there much, much longer than that. You went to basin has always been like this hot spot. Yeah. And there are other places around the world that are like that, you know, whatever the intelligence is that's there plays games and it seems to at times feed off of fear. It didn't kill any humans that we know of, but it sure as hell obliterated cows and dogs and cats and other animals messed with horses.

It seemed to get a kick out of scaring the hell out of the humans who were there. And it suggests that maybe there's more than one intelligence operating here that there are teenage pranksters and maybe evil alien forces of some sort and as well as some benevolent presence that has our own best interest at heart, again, it goes down to it might be more than one answer. Yeah. I was thinking so. The majority of reports that are sent in to me and people just telling me their story

and not wanting other people to know it just so that they get it off their chest. I'd say 99% of them, their UFO encounters are like a car crash. It has nothing to do with what you're thinking. It has nothing to do with your intent or your will or your awareness. It is a shocking event for a lot of people, whether you believe them or not. That is 90% or more of what's reported to me is these instantaneous collisions with this unknown thing. So I begrudgingly do say that the evidence suggests that there appears to be some connection

to consciousness. I don't understand what that is. I am not in that field. I don't understand it. Now, is it because that awareness is being played off of and manipulated? I don't know. But I just know that 99% is people that just have these car crash experiences, but people that do kind of project an intent with these things.

I mean, look, I've asked to see a UFO almost every night and looked up at the stars. I do. It's all I do. Never. Never answers the door. The one time I saw something that is absolutely not something I could explain had nothing to do with my intent. But all of a sudden, it's like you have to wonder, by these reports, is there that connection?

So like you're saying that Henry, you believe there to be some consciousness. I can't rule that out. There's a consciousness aspect to it at all, especially because of what we know from the ranch. Well, and let's bring it back to more of a tangible human conversation. When it comes to how can this be used by governments across the world? Obviously, there's been a large conversation as we get away with money, a currency is becoming digital.

When it comes to one world governments, people that are in control, the power, the group of people that control things have become smaller and smaller and smaller. Do you think that this phenomenon can be used to create things like a one world government to create things or a sort of paranoia amongst society, amongst citizens? Now we're in coast to coast. This is a proper full coast to coast episode. Do you think that it's possible that this can be used by again, human beings who crave power over other human beings for horrible, horrible reasons?

Sure. I mean, no question about it. It can be used to scare the hell out of us. Once they finally acknowledge it and start having an open conversation about it, it could certainly scare us and get us to do things we might not otherwise do. Just like the threat of war with some other superpowers has been used to manipulate us. The technology itself, somebody gets control of that. Let's say it's not the US government that gets it.

What if the Chinese get it first? What if a private company gets it first and decides it's not going to give it back? Yeah, you can see a lot of different kind of dark possibilities out there and fear as a powerful motivator. This is scary stuff. Yeah. George and I really have defended against being part of a mechanism like that, if indeed a mechanism like that exists.

Oh, so we have a fight. This is a verbal confirmation you're not CIA. Correct. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Sounds like something to CIA. I know there's so many rumors about out there because seeing it from the outside is actually

talking to my wife about that. Seeing it from the outside, like how did these guys get all these fucking videos? How did they do it? Obviously, somebody from within the government is giving that to them. The deal is actually, it's fucking hard work and I see myself as very fucking charming. So the deal is this, we really do, and I really, I think this is important. I don't think we've ever said this publicly, but we really defend against being part of an unknown mechanism that is trying to manipulate public awareness about UFOs.

The way that we defend against that is that we will obtain numerous versions of the same assets, the same videos, the same storylines, the same documents, and we'll make sure that it comes from unknown people to each other from various sources. Of course, we'll go proactively start poking around, but the idea is we don't just take something that's given to us and jump out and frivolously say something like these were pyramid in shape, talking about the 2019 events, obviously, optically, there's a lot of issues with that footage and people have brought those to light, but that doesn't mean that they have all the information.

When George and I say something like that, it's because we have been exposed to information that is not public at this time. We don't just frivolously say that, and also we're not, we weren't there on those ships, but we've talked to more witnesses than any intelligence agency within the United States mechanisms. We know that for sure, and because there are so many different forms of this footage or optical information, we can say, look, whether the public wants to believe it or not, there's truth to that original report, so we defend against the idea of being utilized or manipulated

to create a narrative that is untrue, and we do that to the best of our ability. You never know, but I can tell you for sure, Henry, I wish I was getting a paycheck from the CIA. That's what I'm saying. It's like, I want the benefits. I want to take the benefits, but no, it is very, because I know that what you're saying, I know what you're saying, because I just know from the stuff that I've received over the years, I can't imagine the stuff that you have received.

I'm very excited for the full report on the Baghdad Phantom, because I do think that's also very, very, very compelling, very interesting, again, full-on, solid log, shooting across the skies. Look, that is great. Well, let's tell your audience something about that maybe that hasn't been public yet or hasn't really been told, which is, so what you're talking about, George and I, we called the Baghdad Phantom, and it was designated UAP by the Air Force, which is super interesting because we have-

Well, really, they don't fuck around with this stuff, right, the Air Force? Well, it's been silence. It's been so they have not participated in a lot of the things they should have participated in with programs such as the UAPTF, the UAP Task Force or Arrow. So there has been a real void and a silence, but I want to say we didn't ourselves label it a UAP. We didn't ourselves label it even the Baghdad Phantom. Those came from file names within classified servers of the Air Force.

That's what they designated them. And so that's what's important. We are showing you in the 2019 events, which we have really cracked open. Like if you listen to episode two of Weaponize, like we have definitively busted the debunkers on what they were saying. So what we're doing is we're reporting to the best of our knowledge. What we know our government is doing, and we're providing imagery and evidence to try to crowdsource it and get information.

So with the Baghdad Phantom, the reason why George and I put it out is because multiple sources identified to us that there was a problem, that this stuff was being hidden by the Air Force, that it was being put into these little special archives that would never go to central command or even to Arrow. So we wanted to let our government know as well as let the people know who are interested in this, that these are real unidentified, that they track these things, that if you look at the image, which it's hard to discern a thermal image, this is not an optical image. Like in the normal sense, you're seeing heat signature, but what you're not seeing in that

set of seven or six images is you're not seeing reactionary propulsion. So that is definitive. There's nothing shooting at the back to go forward. That would be white hot because it's filmed in white hot. You would see a big plume of exhaust. So this image or this set of images, I feel very strongly that it is going to over time mature into public consciousness where they start to understand the importance. But at the same time, it's already being pushed up to central command, to Arrow, to all the

people that should have been given to in the first place, which I think is healing a little bit of that divide of why wasn't it set up to us? Was it stigma? Was it off mission? Why? Yeah. Interesting. That's a wonderful thing.

But so let me then just even that said, like maybe a good like wrap up question is like, you guys have a, you're in this world. You're in this, you followed your world. Like not to get too personal, obviously, but this must really affect your life. Like I was listening to George leaving the last episode talking about like being literally the day that you are watching the government watch you. You know your phones are tapped. You know that they're following you around.

How does that wear you? Is that just because you've been an investigative journalist for so long, like you got like a thick skin, like you just don't give a shit? Or do you like it? Do you like that they're coming for you because it shows that you're doing it right? Like how do you deal with like, because I'm certain you guys must, because you're trying to actively do an active UAP investigation out loud, right? Like do not get hit up from all sides from all weird sorts of characters and stuff.

Like how does that affect you as a person through these years of working on this subject? I know that in the beginning, when I realized that my phones were being tapped and there's no way they went to a judge and got the okay to do that. When I was being followed around, people are trying to intimidate witnesses who's offered to talk to me. It really pissed me off. I mean, it just seemed so completely over the top and outrageous. Now, you know, we've been accustomed all of us to believe that every electronic communication,

every email and cell phone call goes into some gigantic NSA databases all scooped up and put on supercomputers. We've all sort of been conditioned to deal that. I know at the beginning, it really ticked me off. It has certainly affected my life in profound ways that I assume that everything that I'm saying and doing is being monitored. It ultimately is maybe scarier than what the ultimate UFO truth is, is that, you know, these are humans.

These are the bad things they can do for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. I would say that, you know, you're asking, how does it personally affect you? I think about like Bob Lazar, how he, these days, he is so overly directed about the words he says because they've been so picked apart. It's not really our government. I've never been, you know, resisted, only assisted.

I can still say that pretty much where George has had a different experience. It's more the attacks, you know, from the UFO fanatics, I mean, I get it, I get it. But it's like these personal attacks, like I definitely don't let, you know, my wife, you know, see the social media comments if I can't, that she's just not on that shit. But it's like, they're horrible stuff. But look, our friends have been rated unjustly by different agencies, three people that we just talked about in a recent episode. And that's real.

Yeah. Luckily, George and I got nothing to hide. So it's really good that we are on the right side of journalism and we stay on the right side of the law when it comes to the reporting that we do. Also, we have been directly notified that the information is not that our government is against what we're doing as journalists. Our government is more concerned about foreign nations' access to our lives. I found that to be really interesting because these are good people in government trying

to get to the bottom of the real hole that we have in our national defense when it comes to the UAP topic and UFOs. And we have been, George and I have been informed that this is the concern. It's just other foreign nations not stopping us, but trying to get stuff before we vet it and make sure it's safe to put out. So I don't know. The question is, does it wear you down? I mean, I think George and I are both resilient people to begin with.

And also, maybe I'm a little bit of a psychopath or I don't know what you call it, but I don't really feel positive when someone says, good job, and I don't really feel negative when someone says, you're a douchebag with a terrible beard. I don't really care. I just care that my puppies love me and that I get to hang with my wife and my family. You have a good beard. That is the most important thing. You have a great beard.

You have a great beard. It's catchy. I honestly think that they don't have anything on you on that. They do. Fear the beards, baby. Fear the beards. Right here. George, my final question.

Radio, did you set out to become a radio icon? Because you certainly are a radio icon at this point. Was that the goal? Was that your dream? Or was radio just the medium that was perfect for you? Yeah. Like television, I just kind of fell into it. I didn't know I was a radio icon.

I certainly didn't know. I was headed toward radio, but I certainly enjoyed doing coast to coast a couple times a month. That's a lot of fun. And now Jeremy and I are doing this podcast, which is in quite radio, but it's a lot of similarities. We're having a lot of similarities. Yeah.

That's so cool though. Yeah. Cause then it just keeps going. So do you see anything else in your future? Do you feel like you're not going to end up starting going into like celebrity gossip, right? Like I feel like this is it. Yeah.

What are they doing? We're going to cover a lot of things on the show because, you know, we have other interests outside of UFOs. It always pulls you back into UFOs, but you're going to talk about cinema and art and philosophy. We have some guests coming up that are really outside of that box. I mean, of course we always come to them with, have you seen a UFO or what's your take on all this? But no, we're having a blast man.

Just, you know, just from a human perspective, I love the fact that I get to work with one of my dearest friends and my mentor in journalism and we get to do this on a regular basis. Are you fucking kidding me? This is like, for me, it's so fun. It's exhausting, but we're having so much fun. So I hope that it continues to be fun because we're going to keep doing it, you know. And that's why I've said this before and I'll say it again. The aliens are job creators and that's why we need an alien for president.

Jeremy Corbel, George Knapp, check out the podcast weaponized. Thank you both so much for taking time to be with us today. It's just been an honor to chat with you and very educational. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Great talking guys. Thank you so much. All right.

There was our conversation with Jeremy Corbel and George Knapp. That was awesome, bro. Motherfuckers alleged. Yes. George Knapp. He's great. Thank you for putting us in contact too, Henry. You did such a good job.

You're really climbing up in the UFO community slowly, but surely, you know what it is that I feel like because we've talked about this with other ufologists, they don't want to be made fun of and I was like, well, at least like we just make fun of ourselves and the process of doing it. And it's also because we, we unfortunately do the reading. Yeah. Also by ufology standards, they're tense. They're both.

Oh yeah. They're incredible. George Knapp was a literal like legendary anchor for years. So he's got. Yes. He's very handsome. Yes, he is. So anyway, thank you all so much for listening to this special episode of side stories and

I hope you guys learned a bunch and I'm sure you guys are screaming in your cars as we speak. Well, don't get abducted and be safe out there. All right, everyone. Hail yourselves. Hail Satan. Magus de les. Bye.

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