Last Podcast On The Left - Some Place Under Neith: Episode 3: Shelly Miscavige Pt III - Absolutely STUNNING Prison

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

In the conclusion of Shelly Miscavige, Amber & Natalie discuss the final days of Shelly's "freedom" and where she may be hiding. Plus Natalie lists some pretty gnarly accusations against the church and finally, where active members can go to find help and hope of escape.

Some place underneath. Oh, thank you for joining us. This is Some Place Underneath. I'm Natalie Jean. Amber Nelson. I am joined by the beautiful Amber, and she's going to let me scream at her for the next hour. I love it.

You better. Amber, have you ever had any personal experiences with Scientology since we're both currently Angelinos? They love being out here. Oh, they love it out here. I mean, out here everybody has their dreams and their wishes smashed. So you need to be a part of somebody, an organization that says you are special.

Yeah, and gives you claps. Yeah. I used to live right next door to one of them, and he would hear the, like, what do you call it, whatever, on like a megaphone, like you hear them be like, oh, Zino's coming to save the day. And that was like just what you would hear all the time

walking through LA, and you're like, oh, this is a city of clowns. Oh, like a street preacher? It was like a building, and they had megaphones facing out. Really? It was really, really weird. Wow, I have not had that experience.

Yeah, and sometimes they'd be standing outside of it, and they'd be like, do you have a second about Scientology? I would say, no, thank you. And they would always mumble and say something mean, and I'm like, why are you so mean? Like, no one's going to join your cult now that you're mean. That's so interesting, especially because they try to guard the idea of Zino so desperately.

But I think now, because so many people know about the whole Zino myth thing, that they're trying to, like, embrace it. They're being, like, ironic about it, and going like, oh, you've heard of Zino, Wink. Why don't you come check out our website? Isn't it making more curious? Isn't it great? They pitched it as, like, a science fiction thing.

Which it is, but for many years, they acted like it wasn't. You know, I was talking to somebody about Shelly Miskovich, and they said, who's that? And I was like, oh, my God, she's gone missing. She was like, you know, one of the head honchos wife in Scientology. Not a second. Let me pull out my whiteboard, and I'll make some notes for you. Yeah, but they never even heard of her.

I mean, A, Scientology's done a great job of covering that up, and B, we're doing a better job of bringing it up, digging up that grave. I will never stop digging the grave up, and I think that's the most important thing we can do is continue to rehash this and rehash this and rehash this until something happens, because that's what allows these things to continue as people just, like, getting exhausted by it,

and just going, whatever. Whatever. And more and more people are going to go missing. They're going to go snatched. We're going to stop seeing them. Oh, I don't know. The news cycle's so intense. Right.

It keeps happening. Guess what, bitch? It's going to be more intense no matter what. You're next. You're the next one to go. There are actually already so many other people missing, and at the very end of this, I'm going to just do a quick rundown of, like, some other major crimes that are being alleged

from this organization. So get excited. Get excited. Number one, crime of fashion. Oh, yes. And the last episode, black pants, white shirt, come on. Something fun. Or a sailor outfit.

Those are your two options. That's it. Yuck. So, yeah, I know that I've had some really weird experiences with them being out here, and I actually went on some of my first auditions ever in Los Angeles inside the Big Scientology Center on Franklin. Really?

Yeah. I didn't know what Scientology was. This was probably about 2008, and I knew the word, but that was about it. That was non-union at the time, and they do that. They do these huge calls because they make movies all the time, and they do use non-Scientologists a lot. And also, I think sometimes it's like kind of a recruitment thing.

Of course. I don't really know. Oh, you tell them you're fresh to LA, you're young, they're just licking their lips. Yeah, they're like, oh, fresh meat. Yeah. But yeah, I went to, I think, two different auditions. You meet somebody at the front, and they take you,

they walk you down these catacombs inside of this. Like, you start on the ground floor, and then you go downstairs, and you go through all these windy hallways. And I wish that I had known what Scientology was at the time, because I would have been paying more attention. But I was just like, weird, this looks kind of like a big church or something? I don't know what's happening.

It made me a little uncomfortable, because normally, when you go to an audition, even if you're a non-union, it's in some scummy, half-empty office building, which is what I'm more accustomed to. And this was this big extravagant, it looks kind of like a church, kind of like a country club. Interesting. Yeah, I need to pull up in a parking lot that I don't know about

and have 20 other girls that look just like me in the waiting room. Yeah. Then you know there's safety numbers, you know? Yeah. But no, I just, I was so hungry for, you know, I was just, I was new here, and I was going to make it. Oh, my God.

So, yeah. And then I, they had me record on, they had like an underground stage that I performed on, because it was for a dancing part. And they said, no, thank you to me. And I was like, please, could I want to be in your cult? And they were like, mm, no thanks. We, no.

They probably saw you're too strong. They were like, she won't shut up. So, yeah, that, that was my first real foray into the world of, of Scientology unintentionally. We're going to see how Shelley got into it much differently and we know that already. So last time we left off, we were just getting to the point where Leah Remme

had just noticed Shelley was not there for Tom Cruise's illustrious wedding to Katie Holmes. And it's a wedding. Weddings where you invite everybody. This also is considered the most important wedding of Scientology. Like Tom Cruise is the king. Yeah.

Only below David. And I bet it was a dry wedding too. I don't know. I think actually there was booze and it's one of the things that they're very hypocritical about, that they preach all these things, but then they all get drunk and stuff all the time. Interesting.

Makes me like more. But the whole like trying to make people feel bad for doing drugs or something. That's usually what happens. Any sort of religion. They're like, you can't do this. The wealthy people usually end up doing it. Yeah.

So this was a huge deal, particularly because Miskovich and Tom, David and Tom are total BFFs. They have a beautiful bromance together. So David having his wife missing from that wedding was very weird. And another woman sitting beside him. Yeah.

So David had his assistant with him who continued to be his assistant and it is alleged that they probably were smashing. Oh yeah. Assistant in quotes. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

But I bring up this wedding again because I got to say without Tom there really wouldn't be this level of power in Scientology still. And Tom and Dave are both obnoxious people, but they get along very well. They're both very short. Tom actually looks tall next to David, which I think maybe one of the reasons he sticks with him.

Oh, that's cute. Yeah. But they're just like the best of buds. They're like little dogs sniffing each other's butts. Yeah. They are. I would call them like Tomvid. That's their couple name.

Oh man. Just pull his pants down and suck his dick, Tom. Come on. I mean, I don't know if he's gay or not, but there's definitely been lots of speculation. But regardless. It's fine if he's gay. Yeah.

He's just like totally blow it up. You know this organization is extremely anti-gay. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the way back to LRH, they are very opposed to the LGBT. But do you think they'd like gay people because gay people can't biologically have children?

It's something weird that followed through from LRH, because that was a time period where it was much less accepted. So he kind of had already put that into his doctrine LRH back in the 60s and 50s. And they just really clung onto it. And so that's one of the reasons that they speculate Travolta is still in because you have to give up all your personal information in those audits.

And I don't know, he might not be gay, but there's a lot suggesting he might be. Tom Cruise is complicit in all of this. He is very aware of what's going on in Scientology. There are other celebrities who have been a part of Scientology on the tertiary level, like on the outside part. But he is in the middle of it. And he knows, he actively uses slaves from the sea

or to do things for him. And they're fine with it because they are at the top of the ship. For sure. I mean, Tom's like the biggest deal there is. And the last thing I want to do regarding Tom here at the top, I want to do a quick quote from Lee Remini's book because it's so weird.

But this is how Dave and Tom are. This is the situation that Shelley was finding herself in, which did not work out well for her. So this is Lee Remini going to Tom Cruise's house one point after she makes it higher in the ranks, and she's already been on King and Queens, all that. She writes, Tommy and Jessica's off-putting presence, those are to see org assistance to Tom,

added to the weird feeling we got at Tom's house. It was hard to place, but there was an energy in the air. Like we were being watched. It was as if at any moment, you couldn't be ejected from his Beverly Hills mansion and sent to flag in Florida to scrub toilets. As the dinner continued and we spent more time with Tom, I came to think of him as a big kid with his loud laugh,

high energy, and goofy ideas of fun. Like when he invited us, some Scientologists and a few other celebrities like Will Smith's wife, Jada Pinkett Smith, to his house and announced he wanted to play hide and seek. At first they thought he was joking, but no, he literally wanted to play hide and seek with a bunch of grownups in what was probably close to a 7,000-square-foot house on almost three acres of secluded land.

I mean, that sounds fun, but he's got the upper hand because it's his house. Yeah, especially when it's kind of not a group decision where it's the weird, Ha ha, I guess we all gotta play time and hide and seek with Tom. Yeah, so she goes, I can't play, I'm wearing Jimmy Choo's, I said. Well good, Tom said with his signature grin.

So you're it then, and with that he tagged me and ran to hide. Huh? I pulled my husband aside and in a quiet voice I whispered, uh, Angelo, you're gonna go ahead and go do this because I'm not doing it. I'm not trying to play a fucking game of hide and seek in five-inch stilettos, okay? People were terrified of offending Tom and not without reason.

Once when Angelo and I were over, Tom decided he wanted to make cookies. We walked into the kitchen where a batch of pre-packaged cookie dough had been prepared and was sitting on the counter. A perfect loaf ready for cutting and baking. Tom was looking for flour and other ingredients and must not have seen the cookie dough and he instantly got angry. Guys, where's the cookie stuff? He said, throwing his brow. His assistants came running and wanting to explain

that it was right there on a nearby counter. But all one of them could say was, uh, Tom? They both grew more flustered and Tom got angry. God damn it! Looking at the dough sitting on a cutting board, obvious to all of us except Tom, I wished his assistant would say, hey the stuff is right under your nose dumbass,

but she didn't, she couldn't. Instead, Katie whispered something to Tom who repeated, can I just get the stuff for the cookies guys? Although his voice was lower, there was still a seething quality to his request that made his assistant even more flustered. Tom seemed like a child who had never been told no. People say that celebrities stopped developing emotionally

at the age of their success, which for Tom had been with Risky Business at 21. Get in the fucking present time is what you need to do, he screamed at his assistant. As he lit into her, I thought about a time a friend had mentioned to me that she witnessed him taking his assistant to task for giving him a chip coffee mug. You served me tea and a chip mug?

Do you know who gets served with a mug that's chipped? Fucking DBs, he said, using the initials for degraded being. A term in Scientology that means degraded spiritual being. Still not noticing the log of pre-made dough on the counter, Tom raised his hand above his head. LRH is here, he said, then lowered his hand to his chin and he said,

Dave and I are here. Then with his hand down at his waist he said, and you are here. An uncomfortable heat rose in my body, just like it used to when I was a little kid being yelled at by my dad. It was horrible to watch somebody I admire come undone and even worse to witness the fear in the assistant's eyes. Tom came across with an almost presidential charm to the public,

but seeing him treat people this way was utterly shocking. I've seen celebrities, myself included, treat people or staff poorly, but this was on another level. The whole scene was so painful to watch that I had to step in. Oh wait, I said, as if I had just discovered something. Tom, is this it? He looked at the dough, the assistant looked at him, and I was looking at both of them, all of us incredulous.

Oh, he said, thanks. And then it was over. Whoa, what a fucking asshole. And they just have to sit back and take it, because if they offend him, then they go, like, swap toilets in a ship somewhere. I mean, literally, that's what happens. And I say all this because, again,

this is the world that Shelley's in with Tom and Dave. That's abusive. Yeah, and I believe Leah. I don't think she has any reason to lie. I think she has everything to lose to lie about Tom. Yeah, why would you lie about this? I don't know why she would. You see a lot of interviews with him where he does kind of snap

if somebody especially questions anything about Scientology. He's actually gotten to the point where he gives people a breakdown of interview questions that are not allowed to be asked before he'll go to an interview. Yeah, don't ask me how tall I am. That, but also don't ask me about all the missing bodies that my church has in their fucking basement. So...

Do you think he'd never even seen a roll of cookie dough? Like, he didn't know... I mean, there's a solid chance that he didn't know what that was. He didn't know what that was. I am here. You are down here. Yep. So he, besides having literal fucking Sea Org slaves

who make 40 cents an hour, he's also complicit in what's going on. Yeah, whether we know that story exists or not, you know, there's no, like, judge evidence on this. You know, I don't want to go pointing fingers like a witch somewhere, but... I do. I'll point out, I'll be a fucking witch in the woods. Yeah.

I'm the goddamn Blair Witch, but not the project. I'm just the Blair Witch. But there's so many people who have come out saying this is what happens in the Sea Org, and if you are at the top of this and you don't even care, you have to know. Yeah, and I bring all of this up because of the mountains of evidence that have already been pulled out.

I would not do this. It's so insane that it sounds like a QAnon conspiracy, but it's documented by dozens and dozens of people, and they have corroborating stories. They have evidence. So I only bring these things up because there's so much proof that it is real. Yeah, the backing. Yeah.

So we get to why did Shelly disappear? Well, multiple people believe it was due partly to her fussing with some of Miskovich's work without asking him. In 2019, in fact, a woman who initially was only known as Jane Doe, but eventually became public and whose name is actually Valerie Haney, filed a complaint for damages in Los Angeles Superior Court that listed 14 causes of action, including false imprisonment, kidnapping, libel, slander, human trafficking,

and negligence against the church. Whoa. The court filings alleged that Miskovich became increasingly hostile and verbally abusive towards his wife around 2005. So why is this woman, Valerie, talking about Shelly? Well, it turns out that she was Shelly's assistant for several years. But not only that, it had become very close to her. It's really important that Valerie's come forward,

and I'm very thankful that she did, even though it's going against her own interests, and she's receiving a lot of stalking. Yeah, they could just take her in the night. I mean, they show up at her house and stuff all the time now. You have to go face-to-face with Tom Cruise now. I mean, do you think I could take Tom Cruise? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Do you think you'd try to Hollywood karate kick me, and I'd just pick him up and throw him? I think you could absolutely tackle that dude. I'm 5'8", by the way. I mean, he does his own stun scenes a lot of the time, but he's also being handled by like 500 people and has like five months of training for each thing. It's cool, but if he was just like on a street fight,

I think you could totally take him down. Yeah, so just do you hear that, Tom? You try to come at me? I'm 5'10", all right? I'm the same height as your ex, Katie Holmes. I doubled her once. So why don't you fucking try it, bro? Was she nice? She did not speak to me.

Was she in Scientology at the time? It was 2010, so I think they were divorced by then. No, maybe not. Yeah, I will say every woman who's left Tom Cruise, like if you're ever at home, Google the picture of Nicole Kidman leaving the divorce proceedings with Tom Cruise because she is just elevated and she's just like laughing on the streets.

Like she's finally left him. And then when Katie Holmes left him, she just went on like a shopping spree in New York. I remember that. There were like photos of her on all the magazines and she was like, I'm free. Which is awesome. And at least she got sorry,

because I know Nicole Kidman lost two of her kids in this because they stayed in Scientology so she can't even really see her kids very much. And you have to give a quiet birth. You can't scream and you can't talk out. Katie Holmes, she was locked in the mansion and I remember reading something about this. Oh wow, I haven't even read this.

Yeah, you have to have a quiet birth because the more you scream, then that's the more sort of anger a child comes into the world with. So you have to basically have your hips breaking apart, completely silent. Cool. Yeah. Well, that'll make sure that you go to heaven, I guess,

or whatever. So again, like Valerie's not doing this for anything. This was a huge problem for her and she decided, she actually initially appeared as the blurred Jane Doe on Lea Remini's show, The Aftermath, in the first season. But by the third season, she had come total face out. She was just like, fuck this, I don't care anymore. She's tired of getting yelled at about the cookie dough.

You are down here. She never made it to Tom's house. She only made it to Shelly's, which is almost as good as Tom's house. Valerie, much like Shelly, was born into Scientology. However, unlike Shelly, Valerie's parents were already in the Sea Org when she was born. So they actually had to take a leave from the Sea Org when they decided to have her because they really frowned against it and they make you leave until your child six.

And when the child six, then they shipped the kid off somewhere else. So she was born with Sea Org parents. And when she was six years old, she was sent away and she didn't really see her parents anymore. So are you raising the child until they are six years old? Yeah, kind of sort of. But you're not in the Sea Org anymore. You're demoted, but you're still doing Scientology work the whole time.

So they really encourage you to not get in a bond with your family. Oh, my God. Because your parents are like, this fucking kid. And then they're six. Get out of here. Yeah, and they really indoctrinate the kids with that idea that they're part of this big, important project that nobody else can do. They're the only ones who can save the Earth.

And no one's got to know about it. They can't know the details. Don't worry. It's fine. Well, and Valerie never saw anybody else. She was raised so deep in this. She never went to school for even a couple grades. So she has no education. She doesn't have a GED or anything. Wow. I guess it would be like me going into Scientology. Like Swip Swap Day, I'd be like, you fucking guys are crazy.

But she's thinking about me. She was. It was. Yeah. She was for a long time. So she herself joined the Sea Oregon, her teens, because she was totally gung-ho. How would you not be? You don't know anything else. Yeah.

Because of that pedigree, she managed to make the high-ranking slot of Shelley's assistant while Valerie was in her 20s. She was, in fact, her assistant at the time of her disappearance. So she's a huge wealth of knowledge. And she's only really come out talking about this in the last couple years. And her complaint that she put when she was still Jane Doe, she alleges that she witnessed a dark-colored tinted vehicle

pull up to the main building at Scientology's gold base, at which point unidentified men dragged Shelley, who was crying invisibly distraught out of the building and put her in the car. Here we see the first sign that maybe she was standing up to her husband. Because while I do think she was completely Shelley, was completely brainwashed by Scientology, what we're learning is that what David was doing

was not nearly the same as what LRH was doing. And he really changed the entire organization. And a lot of the older members were really concerned about those changes being made. Shelley was starting to kind of come around to being one of those people where we'll go through this timeline, but she wouldn't have had a lot of ability to do anything about it. So the little tiny bit that she did do infuriated David.

Yeah, because she was raised in this. So she, of course, loves Scientology so much. And then here comes somebody along changing it. She's like, what do you mean you're changing it? You can't change this thing I've grown up with. Yeah, and it became increasingly more violent and more fucked up. And I bet he's like, shut up, woman. I mean, kinda.

But Leah Romney talks about that in her book, too, that for a long time she kind of just blamed it on David. And she was like, I'm still an LRH girl. I still support it. And then you look deeper in. It's like, well, LRH was also full of shit. But David's really taken this to another level. And when I talked about gold base just now,

I know we've mentioned it before, but it's a place in California that I drove to because I was really curious about it. This is not the same place Shelly is allegedly being held now, which is in Big Bear area. This is in more of the desert area. It's about, I don't know, an hour and a half south of LA. So where this place is, gold base, it's their international base.

It's one of their biggest campuses that they have. And they have a lot of places, but this one's where David has like a mansion on the property. It is bizarre because when you go, it's not hidden. It's actually completely out in the open. It's like hiding in plain sight. It's this huge campus and there's a highway road that goes right through the middle of it.

David has tried and failed multiple times to get that highway closed. So what it is is this road where you can go like 65 on it and in between it on either side, there's little entrance ways into gold base, but there's nowhere for you to stop. So I drove back and forth in front of it, I don't know, 10 times because I was just trying to like

get my bearings and understand this massive complex where it's on two sides of this highway. And you can't, there's nowhere to stop your car. There's nowhere on the side of the road. You'll have to drive a mile out of the way if you even want to have anywhere to turn your car off. If you want to walk towards it and if you walk towards it, you are out in the complete open.

They will see you coming from a mile away and they have made it so that even though it's there, you really cannot access it. Wow, I bet you have to like put your car in a certain place and then like touch a button and it goes beep beep and like pulls you in somehow. There's a drive, a couple of driveways that are so heavily guarded that if you even turn around in it, somebody comes out.

But the weird thing about that, on top of that, because I did try to like turn around a couple of times like just being like I was lost or something. Like a dumb woman, I don't know. Yeah, it's almost completely empty. You don't see people moving around or anything. And that's really what the consensus is, is that there's really not very many people left,

but this is the place where they have the hole and this is where they keep some of the high ranking C-ORG members still. They still have functioning campus. Like there's people there for sure, but we'll talk a little bit about the hole. But the hole is where a bunch of the top ranking C-ORG members are housed and it's basically a prison.

It's two trailers that are on gold base that people are beaten and tortured inside of. Were these the older members that went against David? Yeah, essentially there was one time period right before Shelley went missing where he developed this whole situation and he started lashing out at all the people around him, but essentially because I think they were questioning him.

That sounds like a Lord of the Rings situation. Like I am king now and those who disagree with me get put into the hole. It sounds like a fiction story. It sounds like nonsense and it's fucking happening. And then just get new people in their position and then they owe you now. It's tripping, man, because you drive right past this thing

and you're just like, oh, there's like a town right by here. They pass this all the time and there's just people being tortured inside. I can see the building where these people are being held and there's nothing you can do about it. And even when I tried to slow down on the road a couple of times, cars are whizzing by so fast, they just like honk their horn and get all pissed off.

Like you cannot stop in front of this thing. And it's really, it's trippy. It's trippy to see it. Do you think they hire people to drive fast occasionally? Just to be like, keep it moving. The thing is just a bunch of pricks who live in the desert who like get sick of people trying to look elu at the Scientology buildings

and they're just trying to like get to the gas station. People do drive way too fast. As someone who drove around the desert and the mountains recently, people need to calm the fuck down. Well, especially with all the crazy landscapes that California has, people really like to whizz around the site of mountains and shit. They really do. So that is the place where Shelley was taken away from.

That was gold base. And that was in the year 2005. Valerie afterwards was left on gold base. She was also, while there, abused, tortured and held captive for years because of her knowledge of the situation going on. And because they knew she kind of wanted to leave before she escaped literally in the trunk of a car,

which she describes thoroughly in one of the aftermath episodes entitled Star Witness. And I really recommend watching it because her story is insane. It's really wild what she had to do. Escaping in the trunk of a car. Yeah, I mean, that's how you get out of like war zones. Yeah, it was like in the trunk of a car

of somebody who did not know she was in the trunk. Whoa. Yeah, yeah. And then also just of note, others actually also theorized that he wanted to get rid of her because he was having the affair with his assistant, whose name is Larisse Stuckinbrock. German?

Yeah, some white. I've seen pictures of her, but it looks like in which it really looks like he did. He was in is having an affair with her. But I think it's more to me. I think that's more of like a, that's like a chicken and the egg scenario where it just ultimately boils down to Shelly became a hindrance to him.

Yeah. And when she began to push back, he needed to squash that and he didn't care how it happened. I wonder why he didn't kill her. Well, we don't know for sure if she's alive, but I think it's because Shelly agreed to these terms. So I think she's alive personally. Yeah.

I read in the breakdown you sent and this might be skipping ahead. I'm sorry. No. But they, she was like surrounded by bodyguards and was like really frail and weak and like looked like she was on drugs. She's in her fifties. Yeah. So there have been a couple alleged sightings of her through not confirmed,

but that amongst other things, I initially thought before I got into this that she was dead, but I actually now believe she's still alive. And I think it's because of her willingness to take these steps. So it was late August or early September of 2005 when Shelly vanished. The last documented footage that we have of her is from September 2004. And it was at the ideal org opening in Madrid. Tom Vidd, the celebrity couple Tom Vidd.

They were there, of course, because this was a huge deal. And as they go to sit down in the front row of the audience, the camera who's recording this opening pans across and we see a quick side view of Shelly as she's going to sit down next to David. That is the last footage we have officially ever seen of her. And it was not intentional. She just happened to be in the frame as it passed by where they were sitting. Yeah.

They probably wished she wasn't even in the frame. I mean, yeah. And this was, this really was a turning point for a lot of the way David was acting within the org. So in 2005, according to multiple witnesses, including Mike Rinder and Valerie Haney, Valerie being the assistant woman, David was becoming more unglued. Whether it was the pressure of running this org and trying to answer questions from the outside world or he just was a megalomaniac and he had a thirst for power.

It's not really clear what exactly was the catalyst, but there's some theories. He was increasingly becoming more violent and erratic around that time period. So in that summer of 2005, right before she disappeared, David was in Los Angeles doing some Scientology work and she then becomes the assistant COB at Goldbase. She's there by herself. She becomes the boss when he's gone. And she took it upon herself to make a few changes while he was gone. Uh-oh.

Yeah. She ended up rearranging some of the job positions that were of the highest ranking CEO org members who he would interact with the most, she kind of changed their jobs around a little bit. And it was in effect, according to Valerie, because she was watching him become increasingly more unhinged on these people. And so his aggressions and his anger in those things, he was attacking them and starting to physically abuse them. And she didn't know how to control that other than to change their jobs

so that they were not like jobs that would require face-to-face interaction with him very much. That's smart-ish. That's what all she can do. Right. I mean, it's like a battered housewife solution. Yeah. And if also he's beating up his coworkers, I mean, it's not like he's going to come home and be just leave it to beaver with her.

No, definitely not. And then according to Haney, she also had done really menial things like they were having their living quarters renovated and so she packed up some of his stuff, like just basic housekeeping stuff that he didn't authorize her to do. Oh, he's got to tell her how to do everything. Yeah. Ew. Yeah.

I hate that. Yeah. I hate that. It's not great. Not great. So when Miscavige returned to Goldbase that August or September, nobody can fully remember the exact day, especially because when you're on Goldbase, there's not really a lot of time. There's no clocks on Goldbase.

Really. I mean, they don't have interactions with the outside world, so it's really hard to clock anytime, but they know it was right towards the end of 2005. Again, this is when Haney saw Shelley for the very last time. This woman who she considered her good friend and confidant, who she saw every single day for years, she saw her crying and being ushered into that car at Goldbase, and she was not permitted to ever inquire about Shelley after that point. You just see this thing and you're like, hush up woman.

You saw nothing. Yeah. She never even once questioned it because she knew she wasn't allowed to. She'd be in the car next. It was clear that she and Shelley had been talking privately at night, which Valerie was doing that. She has opened up about that, saying that at that time period, Shelley was her friend, so the only private time they really had was at the end of the night, and they would go

to just sit and gossip together and gab and have talks. She could sense Shelley was at that point, kind of going, she wouldn't outright say anything bad about David, but she would ask Valerie things like, what do you think about how he's talking to the others? She'd broach it like that, and then Valerie, who was also a very brainwashed, would just be like, I don't think it's good. I think maybe it's a bad thing that he's screaming and punching them in the face, and then Shelley would kind of go like, yeah, yeah, maybe it is.

Because that's also what they've grown up with their whole life. They were swabbing decks when they were children. They don't know any better. No. And so because they knew that they were close in that way, basically the way they handled Florida, which is a cult tactic, they put her on heavy manual labor. She wasn't put on RPF exactly, which is like the punishment system they have there, but it was similar where she's seven days a week doing heavy manual labor, like digging ditches

and stuff, as a way to dehumanize her and to make her feel even less powerful and able to leave, because they were worried she was going to want to go. And she did. She kind of did make it clear that she wasn't really happy, and they made it so that it was even harder. She was even more watched and more strictly followed around. She was happy. Yeah.

And even more miserable and even less, like if you make somebody tired enough, they won't fight you. They just won't. You make them so mentally and physically exhausted, they just keep going and doing what you say. It really is a cult tactic. So then she's kind of missing from the scene for a couple of years. Almost two years after Shelley was sent away on June 25, 2007, her father, Maurice Barney who we met earlier in the series, dies at the age of 77.

When his funeral was held that summer, Shelley was greased with the luxury of attending his funeral. Isn't that nice? I'm actually very shocked that they let her do this. But it must have been because she was behaving wherever she was kept. Of course, she was guarded. She didn't come alone. She was guarded by a woman named Ann Joseph, who was the ex-wife of the outspoken critic,

Marty Rathburn. Don't remember. He's out. And those who saw her, according to this article that was posted in the Daily Mail, people who saw her described her as gaunt, silent, and shadowed by a church escort. Oh, because she'd been digging ditches the whole time. Well, this, I mean, God knows what was happening to Shelley. Yeah.

And just being screamed at and then just like, go take a shower, shower up for the funeral. Yeah. I mean, Valerie, her assistant, was given all this manual labor. She probably was given some form of that wherever she was shipped to. Like Shelley was either doing that or there's been speculation that she was put on the center for scientific technology, I think. I'm probably getting that wrong. I cannot keep the fucking message.

There's a lot of words. They make you confused in your own brain. I know. They really do. They do that on purpose. And then guests like you would be like, it's always been, you know, this other thing. Always. You've always been a sailor.

What? Okay. All right. I don't know how to drive a ship, but I'm sure I must know how. I'll learn. Yeah. So they allowed her to go to this funeral bowl. She was, you know, a shadow of herself.

And according to Mark Hedley, who's also a defector, when somebody who knew Shelley approached her with a request, she told them, listen to me, I fucked up and I'm not going to be able to help you. At this time period, it wasn't really clear to everyone that Shelley was MIA. So the years of 2005, 2007, no one within the church really knew because as the assistant COB, she was all over the place. There wasn't anybody checking on them except David and herself. So if they didn't see her for a while, they just assumed she was on some mission somewhere.

And, you know, Seward members are placed all over the country intentionally separated from each other. So nobody was asking where Shelley was for all this time. But of course, as we mentioned earlier, Leah Romney noticed at the wedding. And it was not taken well when she was questioning. She's about to go dig in that hole, too. I know, right? I figure Leah Romney would not go dig in the hole.

Well, that's really the reason that we know this much as we do is because Leah, even though she came into the church really young, she's a very spirited woman. And because she succeeded as an actress, they had to sort of play ball with her because they covet the celebrity statuses so much. So she would constantly question them, which they hated. But they also kind of catered to her because she had money and she would give them, she gave them, you know, a million dollars a year. You know what I mean?

Like she just gave them so much money. I mean, like millions, millions of dollars. So they're like, all right, we'll answer your questions, you fucking bitch. But, uh... Well, they wouldn't answer the questions, but they also wouldn't put her in a cave somewhere because that was her celebrity status privilege. Oh, my God. If she wasn't, if she didn't get on King of Queens, she'd be dead.

But you know, she was on Save by the Bell the summer years, summer break. She was. So, I mean, that holds a lot of weight, right? Uh, well, it does, too, if you were an adolescent in 1993. Yes, it does. Okay. So, where is Shelly? There is really nothing but speculation at this point.

It's become a pretty widespread theory that she's kept at a place near Big Bear, which I mentioned, on one of their facilities that they call the Church of Spiritual Technology. There is lots of little, like, Big Bear is a big road that goes up mountain, but there's lots of little places all around there that's easily, you can easily hide there. Oh, yeah. The area it's actually in, this branch of the Church of Spiritual Technology is an area called Twin Peaks, but I do not want to besmirch the name of David Lynch with this fuckery. I do not.

So, I will not associate it with Twin Peaks. In it, they allegedly are spending all their days, not just Shelly, but, like, the whole reason the Church of Spiritual Technology branch of Scientology exists is to archive all of LRH's writings in all these different manners. So, like, archiving everything he's ever wrote, including his science fiction books, and he wrote, like, a prolific amount of books. I forget how many, but it's, like, 500 or something. He did.

That's what that building was right beside me. I think it was his science fiction book place. Yeah. So, what they're doing on these little camps is they're taking them and they're putting them in all these different formats, digital, paper, they're etching them into shit, they're doing all these. They have, like, six or seven different locations of this where they're, they have, like, literal underground tunnels with vaults where they're keeping his, because his words are so important

and they have so much money and nothing to do, this is what they do all day. I mean, what did I think happened before L. Ron Hubbard? Just nothing? The world was nothing? Or he was just the great prophet? I don't think that they really think about it very much. That's kind of like how a lot of my family doesn't think the earth has been around for more than 7,000 years.

Right. Yeah, I think you just, you get that piece of information and if the rest of the story has appealing to you, you just kind of go like, la, la, la, la, la, I won't look behind me and nothing will matter. Yeah. So, I think that's sort of the idea within this. But yeah, so she's allegedly being held at one of those places, allegedly helping them document or like re-record all of his shit.

Categorize the books. That seems like a job she might like because she likes L. Ron Hubbard. Right. She loves L. Ron Hubbard. She likes the original dude. Yeah, exactly. She's like, you like L. Ron Hubbard, how about we lock you up on this mound for the rest of your life and you can read all of his stuff and she's like, yay.

I can't figure out, I've been trying to figure out who is the very first person to suggest this is where she is and I can't figure it out, but it's come from a lot of sources, many of whom are former high-ranking members. So there's some legs to this concept and it's really the only place that anybody has ever suggested that she is. I also drove to this place because I was really curious. I've seen it on TV and stuff and they've, especially with the Oremone show, they've made videos of it and they did a really great thing where they've had drones go over top,

which is a new technology that we haven't been able to utilize before. So we're getting to see these campuses in a new way, which is cool, but I needed to just experience like how far off the beaten path this place was and it is, you have to drive up a mountain for an hour to get to this little area. It's really high up in the air. It's incredibly, it's stunningly beautiful, but you're on this road to get to it that is, it is the actual cliff side of a mountain where there are points where the road is being held up by like steel over the side of the mountain, like with a little guard rail that

will not save you. If you are on your phone and looking down and you make, you turn into it, you're going to fly off the side of a mountain. And people fly up those things, right? Oh yeah. Big dumb footboard chucks. I had a couple of people riding my ass even though I was going like relatively fast up this mountain and I was like, Jesus Christ, it's a death wish up here.

Calm down people. And I drive like a maniac and I was just like, damn, relax. But I guess if you're on it up and down every day, it's probably annoying. I don't know. Yeah. When I was driving around Arizona mountains, like don't compare as much as California, but 60% of my time was just pulling over so people can pass me. I was like, I'm not going fast.

Anyway, so sorry. You know what? Good for you, girl. You feel safe. I am. I want you to be safe when you drive. So she's up this scary mountain. Yeah.

So it's a hike. When you get up there, it is a tiny, like it's a town. There are things around it, but it's pretty desolate. There's a couple little stories you can write outside of where this little compound is. And it was, I guess, initially it was made at the turn of the 20th century, it was made to be a resort for like rich Angelenos. So they bought this property as, I think they bought it in the late 70s and the last time that they had any sort of accountability outside of the church, it was 1988.

And as of 1988, this property has 15 buildings totaling approximately 22,000 square feet, including a three-story administrative office, dormitories, dining halls, residences, and other buildings and offices. Wow. How did they get that, like, building materials up there? Like those boards and concrete? Well, I mean, especially back then, I don't know. I think that's why it was for rich people because it must have been quite a fortune

to go up this mountain and build all this shit. But now that, you know, there's like paved roads now you could just go to. But it's still a drive away from anything, really. And this is the exact opposite of Goldbase, where with Goldbase, it's out in the open and you're exposed, you can't sneak in. This is the opposite of, it's hidden within the trees. And it's again a place where you cannot stop your car anywhere. And I did see lots of the black SUVs driving back and forth the whole time that I was circling

it and stopping. But I was actually surprised when I saw that it has 15 buildings and the stuff I found online because when you drive past it, you can't see shit. There's like three buildings that you can see on the road. There's like two houses and like a gate. And it looks like it's just trees past it. But I guess all of the buildings are deeper in the woods because I drove on the front and the backside of it and it's completely fenced in with like spikes and stuff.

Spikes on the inside, by the way, so you can't get out. Oh, spikes on the, so it's a prison. It is a prison now. But yeah, so the buildings themselves are in the middle of the trees. There's a blogger actually who, he's a member of Anonymous as well. He's called Angry Gay Pope. He's kind of notorious. He did a great breakdown of the layout of this property, including photos and maps and overhead

shots and everything. Wow. I really highly recommend you look at it. It's very interesting. So they covered it on businessinsider.com if anybody's looking for it. I don't know why it's on that, but they did a really good article and showed all his photos. And so again, it's another property where if you want to get to it the way that Angry Gay Pope did, you would have to park your car pretty far away and kind of travel by

foot to get near any of it. So I was able to stop. I took some videos and stuff. I could kind of stop on the side and at least slow down, but there's really nowhere to do that. You can't do that intentionally, so you can't peer around too much. So you have to park your car on the side of a mountain. And then just like, yeah, you have to like hide your car far away on one of the side

roads and kind of probably just like creep in through the woods a little bit to go figure out what's going on there. And you can get like my hunting family, they have deer cameras, like you can get those little deer footage things at any sort of movement in the woods. Oh yeah. I mean, there's cameras. You can see them. They are everywhere.

So they're watching you every second of it. I do recommend anybody who has the resources just to go up there. I don't think that they should have a moment's peace. I don't encourage you to trespass, obviously, and be very careful and watch your license place and stuff. But if you have the time, go up there. They should not be kept to themselves because they've done too much. They do nothing all day, but try to fuck with people though.

So just be very careful if you do check either of those places out. Yeah. It's the fence facing on the inside. Yeah. It's the same with gold base. A lot of their fences are as dangerous on the inside as they are on the outside. Yeah. No, they force people the same with Valerie.

She tried to leave gold base many times and they like physically escorted her back until she escaped in the trunk. Yeah. Because you can't be like, all right, you know what? I'm done. They're going to pull you and chain you down. Yep. Yep.

And you know what? It makes you feel special at the end of the day. You're like, oh my God, they want me here so badly. So yeah, there's been a couple of Shelly sightings. There's a woman named Rachel, her name's not Rachel, but they call her Rachel in this. She's spoken to Tony Ortega who, again, Tony Ortega has done years and years of research on Scientology. He works for the Village Voice and he's done prolific amount of work of exposing Scientologists

and I, you know, he's done, I appreciate all the work he did because I've researched and I used him as a resource over and over again on this episode. A woman named Rachel who lives very close to church of, oh my God, the spiritual church of technology, the technology of church spirits. Are you going clear? I think I'm going the other way. I think I'm going foggy. I'm a squirrel.

Yeah, I'm going, I'm going real muddy. Yeah. She, she's not a Scientologist, this woman. But what happened was she realized a little bit, she didn't know anything about Scientology and she kind of started hearing stuff, especially when Leah Show came out and she was like, oh, this place that they're going to is right near where I live. That's crazy. And then she realized after she saw, she started looking up pictures of Shelly Miskovich after

she learned about this story from the aftermath and all these other things and she was like, I know this woman. I've seen her and her and her husband talk to each other and they, they both say they are 90% sure they've seen her several different times and they named the grocery store and the hardware store they saw her at. And that it was a woman who looked very frail. She was stringy gray hair, did not look well, but about the age that Shelly would be and she was always escorted by a couple of huge men.

So nobody can just be like, hey, if you want to leave, my car is right there. Yeah. What do you think would happen if you just pulled your car up to one of those places, put some cones around it and you're like, anybody wants to leave, anybody wants to leave my car is right here. Just like jangle some treats out in front of the car and be like, anybody, please, I dodged it. Like say somebody ran out and got in your car, would they follow you?

Oh my God, absolutely. Yeah, they would follow you. Even whenever Valerie was leaving gold base in the trunk, the guards were already looking for her and they didn't, they just happened to not open the trunk. They were looking in the car's back seats and stuff. And they had to get somebody who didn't know she was in the trunk because if they knew, then they could be suspect. They could turn her in for extra points.

Yeah. And he was one of the few, whenever they shoot film stuff, it's one of the few times anyone who's not a Scientologist can come onto gold base. There's a very specific corner that they allow the actors on and they have to be pretty oblivious to what Scientology is to get on. Valerie actually had to, she knew where there was a blind spot and the security cameras in the parking lot and she managed to sneak into one of the actress trunks. And they were within five minutes, they were trying to find her.

Because they're constantly being watched. Where is she? Where is she? Where is she? Yep. Yep. That's what they have. They have full staffs that do nothing but stare at you.

Oh my God. Can you imagine your heart racing? How much to be like, all right, they looked away. All right, go. And like, run, run, run, run. Okay. Get in this trunk. Get in the trunk.

And then you got to like, how do you open up a trunk when you don't have the key? You know? Her story's great on the show, but apparently she just stayed in the trunk until he opened the trunk and then she was just like, hey, I'm sorry. I got to go and the guy was just like, oh, God, because he just like, drove into his girlfriend's house after he shot this thing for Scientology. And she was just like, don't worry about it. And he's like, can I help you?

And she was like, maybe can you drop me off at like a bus station or like, and he did. And they just like, went along his merry way. How did she get in the trunk to begin with? She tried different cars until one of them was unlocked. Really? And then just snooped in and then just closed it and then stayed in there. It's probably hot in there. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't fun, but she was already pretty used to like, corporal punishment.

So probably wasn't that bad. She said it was like, when she left that trunk, she felt like she was being born. That was like, she was like, joyful. When she's telling the story, she's smiling because it was like, she was beginning a life in that moment. Oh my God. That was the most free she'd ever felt. And that guy's drunk.

Oh my God. And he was just like, whoa, and then she's like, thank you so much. I appreciate the ride. I would maybe, you know, like clean up in here in the back a little bit dirty, but I thank you. And that was just the one trunk they didn't check, right? They didn't check any trunks. They didn't expect her to be in a trunk because it happened so fast and she was really good,

I think, about not giving any indication that she was about to run. And so she heard somebody calling for her when she was in the trunk and she just like crossed her fingers that they wouldn't think that she was in one of these actor's trunks. And so, Valerie, come on, it's okay. Come on, Valerie. If you come out, it'll be fine. I mean, it's, you're not that far off. Just with like a gun in the back of their hands, like behind their back.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that, that is where it seems that Shelley is. Now this is all the information that we really have about her. So I'm glad that you came along this journey with me. Before we go, I wanted to do a quick rundown of other crimes that are being alleged by people from, in regards to Scientology. With Shelley herself, I have a lot of questions about the circumstances with the LAPD because

according to the story in LA Times, based on information from an anonymous LAPD source, the LAPD contacted Miskovich and subsequently closed the case. There was no real information given. In three days of Leah putting that request in as filing a missing persons report, they closed it and they would not give her any information about it. Probably giving them money. Scientology is probably giving the LAPD money. I mean, it's, it's plausible for sure.

I mean, again, we're all, you know, speculation. But it's super plausible. It's happened before. Or threatened them, or said, like, if you dig further in this case, like, we'll fire everybody here. I think it's, I, my guess is it's more money-based. Yeah. The question becomes, how do we know that they actually saw her?

There's no one from outside this cult that's confirmed to have seen her in years. And like Leah says on her show, she was told that a representative told the LAPD that they saw her and she's fine. That doesn't make any sense. And it's very murky and it's definitely unsatisfactory. And now while everyone has their right to privacy, considering the fact that half of the free world is asking about where Shelley Miskovich is and is looking for her, if she's fine and willing to be this prisoner up on the mountain, why not have her put out a 10-second

video saying, I'm fine, leave me the fuck alone, you fucking suppressive pieces of shit. Yeah. And a lot of this would stop, but they don't do it. And Tony Ortega says, and he points out about this, when we called about it, we are forwarded to Lieutenant Andre Dawson, who told us two of his detectives had met with Shelley. He wouldn't tell us where the meeting occurred. And when we asked him if the conversation had happened in the presence of other church officials, he quickly said that's classified.

Meanwhile, Leah herself never got any response at all from the LAPD, even though she had filed the missing persons report to begin with. Did Lieutenant Dawson's detectives go up to the ST headquarters, which is in another jurisdiction, San Bernardino County, to check on Shelley? Was Shelley instead brought down to Los Angeles to meet the detectives? Or was the LAPD merely lying? Like we don't know. And you know, that again, this is more like getting the board out with all the strings

attached to things. This is purely, this is a weird situation. I don't really trust it, but I don't know, no, trust no one. But I don't, I don't fully believe what the LAPD said. I'm just gonna, I don't say that. No, it would be too, if they have so much money, the church of Scientology, why not just, you know, give the LAPD a few more tanks? I do.

I know. They only have like five or six tanks. I know they have more tanks. I do believe that there has been a lot of stories about them being paid off by Scientologists before. And I think some of them are kind of verified and whatever. Don't come to my house, LAPD, because I'm afraid of you. Okay.

So beyond Shelley, we mentioned briefly Shelley's mother in 1985, David was well on his way to dominating over the other people LRH held close to him. And it was LRH's request actually that after his passing Scientology be held together by a chair group instead of by one single person. That was what LRH wanted for Scientology's future. That was in 85. So on September 8th, 1985, Flo Barnett, Shelley's mother died after suffering three gunshot wounds to the chest and one to the head.

Suicide, right? Well, after a homicide investigation and investigation by the County of Los Angeles, examination at Forensic Science Center, a chief medical examiner, the death was ruled a suicide. Oh, I was making a joke. Nope. What do these things have in common? Well, Flo Barnett was one of the older members of the church who was unhappy with the direction Scientology was taking as LRH was dying and as David was clawing his way over the other

people. And she was, I'll spoken about it, she was part of the splinter group that was like really unhappy with this, even though her daughter was dating David at that time. Yeah. She was like, I don't want in the future some guy to come on stage with a gold medal and congratulate himself. Yeah. And that's where this church is going to.

She's like, I see this Tom Cruise character and I don't like that he's going to be my new daddy. So as this was happening, she was outspoken about it. That made her an enemy to him. This is complete speculation, but it's very odd that those things happened at the same time period. It's also fair to point out that he manipulated other people into prison to quote unquote save the church, including LRH's wife, Mary Sue, who he had also strong armed out of a leadership

position. So he basically got Mary Sue to go to prison for the sake of the greater good. How do you, I guess you're just so brainwashed in this religion and just be like, I can do it. I'm the leader. Just go to jail for me. It's longer and really convoluted, but he basically almost lied to court to, she didn't really volunteer as much as he like cornered her into getting into prison.

So you know, he's capable of some fucked up things. There's also a few articles discussing the strange circumstances in somewhat convenient timeline. There's been documentation. I'm not the one who came up with this theory, but it is something that I find interesting. Also a former high ranking Scientologist named Vicky Aznaran testified that upon hearing a Flo's death, David said that the bitch got what she deserved. So wow, why even need to say that?

Why say that? Well, because she was outspoken against him. So whether or not he had anything to do with this very strange suicide, she had, I mean, there was a lot of evidence to suggest that she was depressed. It could very well have been a suicide. It doesn't make any sense how she was able to use a rifle in that manner to kill herself, but... Yeah, you can't use it.

As someone who's grown up shooting rifles, unless you use your foot. Right. And she shot really damaging, three really damaging shots into her chest, including through her lungs, through one of her breast implants, like three really fucked up shots and then managed to shoot herself in the brain after that, according to the suicide. Yeah, how are you going to keep fumbling your toe? Oh, God, can't. Yeah, like after you do one shot, how do you manage three more, including a headshot?

I don't know. That's just, it's crazy. A little weird. Okay, so there's that. Then we go into, I'm going to roughly just very briefly give you a minor fraction of the number of people who have either died mysteriously or committed suicide while in Scientology. Lisa McPherson is the most important one.

Not the most, I'm sorry, I shouldn't say she's the most important one, but she's the most important one regarding the way David's brain changed in the early 2000s. So in December 5th, 1995, Lisa McPherson died. Scientology had held her against her will for 17 days during that time. She tried to leave, she became violent, she refused to eat. At the time of her death, she had bruises and abrasions on her body and she had lost 30 pounds in those 17 days. How do you lose 30 pounds?

You don't do that by just not eating. You do that being by like forced diuretics. Well, she also had just received brain damage. She was in an accident and she needed help and they wouldn't let her go. There was all kinds of fucked up stuff with her and so she was essentially dying for those days and they would not let her leave. So for much of the late 90s and the early 2000s, Scientology's top management was preoccupied because there was a criminal investigation into this and civil litigation that resulted

from the death of her and then they really fought for this. They fought hard to get this case dismissed. And I mentioned this earlier because it was pointing out that Shelley was so under the spell of her husband that she was not upset that this woman died as much. She was upset about how it was going to make the church look and she was openly talking about that at the time. But this was the time period when David started to really spiral and he fought and fought to get this case dismissed and eventually it did.

In 2004, they wouldn't let go of any wrongdoing and he was just delighted. Oh, because he now has absolute power. That's all I wanted. Scientology was just the vessel in which to do it. It almost seems like he doesn't really love or believe in Scientology. Oh, no. It's just, here's my power shield, my stage I can stand on and my gold medal and I can congratulate myself and I'm a leader.

I agree. I don't think he actually believes any of it. I think he likes the power aspect. I don't think he actually thinks any of this is real. And I think the older he's got, the more he doesn't believe in it and he just has already dug his own grave and he's just waiting it out. Okay, so quickly another couple of few people of the many. Herbert Faff died in 1998 during an epileptic attack.

He hit his head on the table. He was not taking medication because Scientology told him not to and he was taking vitamins instead. So he died from epilepsy that was not being treated because Scientology told him to not. Josephus Havenith, he died of a probable drowning at Scientology's Fort Harrison Hotel in a bathtub filled with water so hot it had burned his skin off, which is very strange. I accidentally saw the autopsy photo. It is really gross.

It burned all of his skin off. So God knows what that means. That's an acid bath. That's not hot water doesn't do that. There was never really an explanation of why he drowned in a tub. So there's that. There's a kid named Noah Antrim. His suicide note reads, I have taken what I consider to be the most expedient way out

of my present predicament. I harbor no resentment against anyone except the Church of Scientology. They have a great deal to do with my demise, to play with people's defense mechanisms in the manner that they do is a criminal thing at best. I hope they can be outlawed. He was 22 years old. He jumped off a building. Oh, so young.

He had his whole life ahead of him, but they made him think like, no, your life is over. You can't do anything. He went to them for help because he was struggling and they just made his life so much worse and they wouldn't let him leave. A woman named Susan Meister who died all the way back on 1971 on the Apollo, she was kept on the boat. Eventually she was unhappy and this is also according to Janice Grady. She was around for this.

They wouldn't let her off the ship. Her family couldn't get a hold of her and she committed suicide on the boat. Willem Mack died by suicide in 1983 after treating his mental health with vitamins recommended by Scientology and when he realized what he was reading was bullshit and he shot back at them. He spoke out against the Church and then he committed suicide. Ten-year-old Michael Lube was a Sea Ord member who committed suicide in 1989. A ten-year-old?

And Quentin Hubbert, which is LRH's own son, died by suicide in 1976 at the age of 22. It's speculated that this was because he was gay, which is a great sin in Scientology. His father disapproved of his desire to leave Scientology to become a pilot and it's also believed that it was pretty openly known that he was gay and LRH despised that and did not approve of that and he took his own life. Interestingly, he wanted to leave Scientology and become a pilot, which is the exact same thing that happened to Fred Trump Jr., Donald's older brother who was supposed to be the golden child.

He didn't want to go into the business. He wanted to become a pilot and he was disowned by the family for it. Just a little side note. Interesting. I thought he died. He did. He turned into a really bad alcoholic after he was disowned by the family and he died of alcohol poisoning essentially.

Alcohol poisoning. Not poisoning, but complications from being an alcoholic. Yeah. Do you think that's why Trump doesn't drink? It is, yeah. It's interesting. It still does blow. It's not like that's what's better.

Okay. That's all I'm going to list. There's way more people who've died mysteriously with them. Another thing I want to quickly note is the harassment of Danny Masterson's rape victims. Guess who else the Seahawks spends their time doing missions for? Danny Masterson. Not only has the church spent time and resources protecting him and trying to make the rape stories go away, they actively stalked and harassed his victims for months and years.

Who is this guy? He's the guy who plays the curly-headed guy on that 70s show. Oh, that guy. I forget his name on the show, but he was like the stoner one. He was always like, man. Yeah. He had a bunch of rape alley and that kind of just went away. He's a lifelong Scientologist.

Well, it's back now. He's facing trial, but Scientology managed to really make it go away a few different times and they had to fight really hard. His rape crimes are brutal. They're not like the fun kind of rape or just like, no. It was like the kind where he drugs them, rapes their incapacitated bodies, and then when they wake up and they're crying, you laugh at them, like that kind of rape. So Scientology, they wanted to make this go away because it was bad press for Scientology.

So these women who were trying to fight for their own lives, their own dignity, were being harassed by these grown men following them around and calling them sluts and shit. That makes me mad. Yeah. Doesn't it? I don't like it. Yeah. I'm just sort of sitting here like, I don't know what to feel.

I'm kind of mad. Yeah. I want to make everybody real mad. I do say these things. I know it sucks, but I think it's really important that Scientology doesn't just get to go under the radar during this time because there's all of these things are going to court and they've already had a bunch of stuff dismissed. But because we're in the throes of so much chaos in the world, they get sort of to go

underground a little bit again and I will not allow that to happen because they are bad people. So back up, and also, if you come to Moved LA, don't join Scientology. They're going to try to get you in. They're still recruiting people to this day. And then we have the whole, which I've already talked about. This was developed during the time, whenever David first began to physically abuse Sea Org members was in 2002 was when they first started seeing this happen.

This was during the Lisa McPherson case when he was apparently under a lot of stress and rest from the outside world. And the case was dismissed, instead of being like joyous and being like, okay, I'll stop hitting you now. That's when he created the whole. He became more controlling. So instead of looking at what's happened and going like, oh, we need to change our ways. He went, no, I need to double down on what I'm doing.

And this is when he started housing top members inside of this place. There's points where it's been up to 100 people in these two trailers living for years. Some of them have lived inside for years, inside of these trailers, inside of Goalbase. Some of those people are technically missing people, but we don't talk about them because they are so enmeshed inside of Scientology that we barely know of them. Yeah. Yeah. They don't have like books written about them.

They make it that way. And then you can't even stop your car along the road. So within the walls of the halls, prisoners are subject to beatings, humiliations, starvation, psychological games, including things like making them play musical chairs and the person who wins the game is allowed to stay in Scientology. They mind fuck them so badly that they get these prisoners begging to stay in prison because they want to please people so much because they have no other lives. It's nauseating.

It's just like sick, man. Then on top of that, we have things like forced abortions. This is something that happened not in LRH time. It was more of David's time, but he kind of took that whole, I don't like kids thing, kids or adults thing that LRH did and he spun it even further. And while back in the day, if you are a C.R.G. member and wanted to have a kid, you got demoted and stuff, it became kind of, you were kind of coerced into whether or not you wanted to keep your pregnancy to get rid of it.

And this has happened multiple times with women who've come out who were essentially forced into an abortion. They did not want. Awful. Child sexual abuse. This is the last thing. I swear to God. This is the last thing I'm going to say.

Awful. Yeah. Yeah. Child sexual abuse. Child sexual abuse. Yeah. Shockingly, neither LRH nor David have been accused of this personally. But can you believe that if you put a bunch of young children on a ranch full time with

barely any adults around that it would draw pedophiles towards it? Yeah, maybe. Just a little bit. It does. A spoiler. So these C.R.G. kids are left vulnerable for years because their parents are around. And it's like usually, you know, 40 kids to one adult because they treat these kids like they're grownups.

So of course, of course some of them are going to get molested. Yeah. And they're probably not even thinking they were molested. They're like, oh, I was an adult. I was an adult at that time. Well, they definitely, some of the women who've come forward were basically like, in Scientology, you're kind of like supposed to question what you're doing to make this happen. And like you can't rat out somebody because it is, it's very similar to like Catholic

church in that way where it's like, you're betraying your church by saying this person's doing this to you. So on top of that, when kids are getting audited, they're being audited by sometimes adults who they have to reveal sexual, anything they've done sexually, any of their private information to become clear. You have to have other C.R.G. members like humiliate you and then you have to have no reaction on the e-meter. So it could be like a tween with an adult guy talking about your tits, like a little

to a little girl for her to become a clear person. Yeah. And you have to talk about it. Like, I haven't had any and they're like, I think you're lying to me. Yeah. And even if you haven't, you have to expose that information to like a random dude. You're like, no, I'm a virgin. Okay.

So that's it. I'm not saying any more crimes. Not that there aren't more crimes, but those are all I'm listening, listening. And the main question I have after that is like, why are they able to get away with these things? And the short answer is, shockingly, money. Money solves a lot of problems. Yeah.

And creates a lot of them. So the slightly longer answer is because they've been deemed a religion. With regards to one of these many cases, if you want to see like the proof of this, the regards to one of the many cases ex-members have tried to file regarding the treatment received in the whole, the court found that Scientology enjoyed the protection of the free exercise of religion clause in the First Amendment and that it could use the ministerial exemptions and employment law to deflect litigation over its treatment of its members. The judge ruled that the First Amendment disallowed the court from examining church operations

rooted in religious scripture, bringing Scientology to account for how it's disciplined its members was precisely the type of entanglement that the religion clause prohibited. So it's in our literature, we get to beat the fuck out of children. Right. And this is sort of the idea of like why a lot of people say like the Constitution should be like a breathing entity, because we notice these things that happen, maybe if we want to try to keep spiritualism in the church facility, we shouldn't just give them absolute free reign to like beat people and keep them prisoner and then just collect billions of

dollars with no accountability, which is what's happened. They also just made that up. I feel like I can't like a new religion. I'm almost like, no, it's already been done, man. Absolutely. Scientology is the absolute worst example of what is happening within our religious communities in this country. This is not an anti-religion thing at all.

It is the way that government handles religion in this country. There's so many, for every person who's actually spiritual in like a high place in the church, there's like four flim flammers because they are given no checks and balances. And so one of the most absurd reasons, in my opinion, why this is because the main government entity that deems something a religion or not a religion is the fucking IRS. They are the ones who decide whether or not you are a religion. The IRS? Yes.

The thing that Scientology was fighting for for decades, and they finally received during David's time. Oh, so it used to not be that way. The IRS used to not mandate. They owed hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to the government during Elrond's time because they just refused to pay taxes. Elrond literally said, the only way to make money in this country is through religion. So he was trying to call himself a church to save money, to have money, to hoard it.

They owed so much money to the government that they fought for years and years and years to get this tax exempt status, and they finally got it, and their entire debt was wiped from the government, and they have not been held accountable for anything since then because of that exemption. I mean, if they paid for that, that could pay for student loan debt, some of it. I mean, it's quoted somewhere around like, I forget how, it's like some, it's in the billions, how much asset they have currently. Okay, cool.

Yeah. You can do that pretty easily. Just get one of your colleges, but they're not going to do that because there's people in the holes. No. So you got to keep the people in the holes. I'm not trying to sound like a devil witch woman. I think spiritualism is amazing.

I do think that Scientology is a prime example of what we maybe need to fix within our country a little bit. Yeah. Maybe it's like your religion can involve like beating people within your religion. Is this something like that? People have to know what you're doing a little bit. If you're going to be tax exempt, you have to actually prove that you're providing services to the world because they're not.

There's things like that. I know, this is a very complicated topic. This is just my little two cents on it. I definitely know that David Ms. Kvige's piece of shit and you little troll, if you're hearing me now, some days people are going to find out what you're doing. You can't hide forever, buddy, and we're not going to let up. So just enjoy this. Enjoy the ride of people harassing you for the rest of your fucking life because your

piece of shit. What's the money worth it, David? I don't know. I don't know what he would say to that. I think he's so far gone at this point. I don't even know if he could tell you. But Shelly Baby Girl, I know, I think you're still out there. Come out.

Your life has been completely taken from you, but you still got some good years in there. I mean, 60 is the new 20, right? Yeah. If you hate what we're saying, at least do a video that's like, leave me alone. I'm fine. Yeah, call me a cunt. Tell me to go away. Yeah.

I don't know if she'll be listening to this because she's got bodyguards everywhere. I know. But who knows? Who knows? They've got Dish TV, according to the Angry Gay Pope. He found their satellite. I mean, maybe we bring our cars up there and be like, if anybody wants to leave, here's the car.

Yeah. I'll give Shelly a time and day. I'll just be like, if you want to come, just show up here and we'll get you. And this also goes out to anybody else who happens to be in Scientology at this moment. If you are in and you want to leave, a really good resource to go to is it's called leavescientology.blogspot.com. They have a lot of really great resources for you. They have chats of ex-Scientologists. They have places you can go, people who can help you, people you can at least talk to

so you don't feel so alone. And you can also call 1-866-XC or X-S-E-A-O-R-G. And I hope everybody out there is happy and not feeling stuck inside of this. But if you are listening to this and you want to get out, please contact them. Also, something I want to do with this show, this was a fucking doozy of a series. And not all of them are going to be this involved, but I wanted to start off with a really heavy one. My head is spinning.

And you did all the research. I'm just like the straight man being like, uh-huh, wow, that's crazy. That's my goal with the show is to make everybody feel sick. So one of the things I want to do with the show with Spun is whatever money I end up making from this show, I want to donate a portion of that to an organization that's helping combat whatever we're talking about or helping people who are stuck in a situation that we're talking about. So this week, I want to just shout out the Aftermath Foundation, which is something that

Leah Remini and Mike Render started after they started the show, which is a place that if you are a Scientology member and you need help and you need resources, they can help you get to them. And if you would like to donate to them, it's the aftermathfoundation.org, and there's a little donate button there and if you want to throw them a buck or two, and we'll be donating a portion as well. And I just want to thank all you guys for coming on this journey and listening to me scream about it because I need people to not forget that this is happening right now.

Yeah, I forgot. And I didn't even know how deep it was, and I started doing a little digging. I was like, oh my God, right now people are being held in a hole. In plain sight, you can drive right past the little spot where they're all living. So thank you, Amber. Thank you for listening to this and for me upsetting you. No, I love it. It's what I do best.

I am Natalie Jean. You can find me at TheeNattieJean, and we have an Instagram account for this show called Some Place Underneath, that is, At Some Place Underneath, and Amber, what you got going on? Amber Smelson. I do a cookie show once a week. And I got a Patreon, if you want to get some recipes, Brighter Side, another show I do. And I'll probably think of it more things I do after we hang up the phone.

Ain't it always the way? Yeah. All right, thank you guys so much, and I hope to see you next time, please. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.