LATE BLOOMERS - 6: ARGUMENTS 101: 5 things ADHD & autistic couples desperately need to understand

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

For years, Rich and Rox told everyone they were "the couple that never argued." Not true anymore. They argue all the time now, they're just better at it. This week they're breaking down exactly how to argue well so it doesn't end in a break-up, using a real recent row of theirs as the case study, plus a few cringe lessons from watching The Ultimatum.If you're in a relationship, this is the episode you need. Rich and Rox talk through the five rules that stop an argument turning into a breakup: why screaming shuts down all communication, why you can't demand your partner love you the way you love them, why trying to "win" an argument means you've already lost, why calling out your own bullshit disarms a row faster than anything else, and the biggest one, learning to translate what your partner actually means instead of just what they're saying. They also redo one of their worst arguments live, so you can hear exactly what it should have sounded like the first time.20% off Loop Earplugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/adhdlove

For years, we described ourselves as the couple that never argued. Gross. Well, it's not true anymore because we argue all the time. But we're still incredibly happy. The trick is figuring out how to argue well so you don't end up breaking up. You have to listen to this episode if you have a partner. Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our lives together. And not breaking up eventually. Port you by our amazing sponsor loop earplugs. Right. Last night, we watched a TV show. We did. It was called the ultimatum.

Yeah. And it peaked both of us, right? Yeah. What does that mean? Just like it just sent you, like you're over the edge, like it's, sorry, like in autistic, what does it mean? We were both annoyed by what we saw. Right, yeah. Yes, we were. I didn't know that's what that meant. It's okay. This is all about translating how we. argue. Basically, there was an argument going on between a girl and a young man and we'd sort of figured out that the young man was autistic because he had like flat face. He didn't do eye contact. And he's like speaking very directly. And she was the complete opposite. Huge emotions, screaming, crying. He was inquisitive. He was asking loads of clarifying questions.

And that was sending her, are you asking me questions? Why don't you say what I want? And we were like screaming at the TV. It actually ended up looking like bullying and they ended up breaking up. And it's like actually there was moments they got on and they could have been a great couple but they didn't know how to freaking argue.

And so many couples break up because they don't know how to argue. We've been peaked. So this is the argument episode and we'll probably have to use like one of our recent arguments I reckon for a reference. Okay. No problem.

Should we, we'll do the music one. We'll do the one the other down. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Are you just going to go straight into the argument? Yes, I'm just going to do a rundown of one of our arguments. Yeah. And we'll use it to go through the five things that, like, you just have to know if you're going to have an argument and not break up.

So we had an argument. I basically have spent a long time struggling with my music career and thinking that I might want to quit. and then the last few weeks I've been like, actually like I'm loving it again and kind of dropped on rich that actually I love it and I want to keep doing it. And he went into practical logical. I was like, why are you not supporting me

and encouraging me? He went further into practical logical. I started crying. Then we weren't speaking. We were in the Indian. I said, should we go home? Went home and you know, he was just angry. Not quite separate rooms.

No. So it wasn't that level. but what a waste of an evening and the next morning woke up sorted it all out but that's the argument we're referencing people I feel like we need to give a lot more context about what it was though but do we do that during the episode

yeah okay fine okay so based on us based on this couple we've seen on the ultimatum like rule number one stop screaming into the abyss if you're screaming at someone that is like Like, no communication is going on.

The only thing you're going to do by screaming is seriously damage the other person. Yeah. Screaming, shouting, like anything in that late, like, just stop immediately. I think it's watching her scream at him was like the most horrible thing. Yeah. That's one thing I would say. I don't think we've ever shouted at each other in six years. No.

We haven't raised our voice each other. No, but I guess, like, I wasn't screaming at you with words, but I was screaming at you with my eyes. Yeah, but I think that's okay. No, that's fine. But, like, just the accept, but you just, if you want to argue well and keep a relationship, don't ever shout. Don't ever scream. I think people raise their voice because they want to be listened to, but the best way to be listened to is when people are calm.

It puts anyone on the defensive as well. Like if you, if you started screaming at me, I would not listen to a single word you were saying. I would completely shut off. Well, you saw that young man, he's being screamed at. And he's like, it's just horrible what you're doing. So I think you have a rule, which is like some arguments, right? You're going to be able to resolve night of.

Yeah. Some arguments, you're not. Yeah. But we needed to sleep on it. So maybe it's not just screaming. It's also like, don't disreesome. regulate into the abyss. If you've lost the plot, like me, like crying and shoulders slumped and you staring out,

like we weren't, we didn't have the skills. It's like, and by the way, don't ever do it to punish anyone. Don't ever go and sleep in the spare room as a punishment. That's just dick behaviour. Be like, Bubby, I love you, but I cannot speak to you right now. Yeah. And we didn't, we just went asleep. So like leave each other alone, but do it wet.

Like be kind even when you absolutely hate each other. Yeah, you don't have to storm out. You don't have to storm out. And actually, if you walk, go for a walk, sleep on it. If you just separate for an amount of time, like you will feel better when you come back to it. Well, you'll feel regulated. You'll feel calmer. You'll feel calmer.

So I just think that's the kick, like anyone out there, if you're screaming, you're doing damage. Yep. You aren't... Completely agree. Go to bed. Number two, you ready? Mm-hmm.

Bro. Bro. This is... Did you just call me bro? Yeah, so. Right. Do you want to argue about it? No.

Stop looking for the love that you give. So when I was watching this girl yesterday, she was like, why can you not just see what I want? Why aren't you cuddling me? Like, what's wrong with you? Why don't you see what I want? And I was like, that's awful. Like she's being awful to him.

And it hit me like a whip hip around the face because that's what I did on the music combo. Yeah. Because I was like, I said, I'm kind of falling in love with music again. And you went logic. And I was like, look, I wanted you to smile. Let me explain so people understand what you mean.

Sure. So for a year, she's been saying, I don't like it. I've fallen out of love. I might quit. I've been fairly neutral about the whole thing. I was like, babe, I love you. I want you to do what's happy. I don't think quit and music is a good idea.

I don't think that will bring you happiness. So that's really important to understand that's been my position for the last year. And then you hit me with, I love it again. I maintain the same level of neutrality. I'd be like, cool, we'll get in the studio, write another album then. But you wanted me to go, that's amazing. But I was like, I don't know whether it is amazing. Is it going to make you happy?

Like, what? Yeah. So I was looking for, I was looking for someone to join me in the emotion and smile and be like, yeah, let's go. And celebrate, that's not who you are. You aren't a join in the emotion kind of dude. No. Which, and you've never, ever been.

And I'm, I just realized, like, I was almost looking for you to be somebody else. And it's almost a bit more gross than that. I was looking for you to be me. Yeah. Like, when we're arguing, we want the other person to give us the love that we give. So I wanted a cuddle and a hype up and a kiss and all those ways I show love. And I was refusing to accept the love that you show, which is neutral. logical, clear, kind.

Yeah. And I just thought that was like so important. Like we have different ways of showing and expressing love and one isn't better than the other. Well, you like to receive love by cuddles and I'm not very good at fulfilling that. Yeah, I don't get cuddled. No. Not even by the dog. I bought a dog to cuddle me and he doesn't even cuddle me either.

So like, that's fine. I just have to live without and that's okay because you can't force someone. You can't force someone to hug you or fake a... Yeah. Did the other day though, I gave you a cuddle because we had the air conditioning on. Oh yeah. Air conditioning. So it's not that I don't like cuddling you.

Yeah. It's also like noticing. So this girl in the ultimatum, she didn't notice how he was loving. Because he was like, can I just get this straight? Can I just check what you're asking me? And she was like, how dare you ask me? How dare you ask me that question? It was like, bro, like he's really trying his best to love you.

Yeah, yeah. We don't know. We can only, we are basing this purely on the camera. Yeah. So basically don't demand your own reflection. And that goes both ways in that argument. Like. Well, a similar thing happened for your birthday, right?

Like we've talked about this before on an episode where you wanted, you felt quite high emotion. about your birthday, you wanted to celebrate it one year, and I'm like, what do you, what do you want? I had a longing inside me that my partner would want to take care, or that you'd understand, but that isn't how you work. The minute I said, I want a party, do this, you went and did it. So, like, I also don't want it to be just about me. I'm not saying my way is wrong. Yeah. Your way isn't wrong. I'm saying neither is and both are important. Yeah. So like, you also can't look for me to be logical and think neutral when I really need a cuddle.

That's also not fair. Yeah. It's a two-way street, baby doll. Which I love in different ways. I strike a nerve there with a birthday comment. Yeah, because it felt I'd really want to be careful with this episode. It doesn't come across like your way is right. No.

And mine is wrong. It's about absolutely respecting the shit. out of the other person's way, even when it's not your way, which means you giving me a cuddle if I'm crying sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Number three, stop trying to win. We're bad at this because I think we're both really competitive.

Yeah. So in our music argument, I was trying to win by like saying, here's why I'm so sad. Here's what I need. Why can't you give it to me? and you were trying to win by saying, well, you're wrong. This is the logical. This isn't fair. We were trying to win in our own language.

Yeah. And play it out, like, let's say you'd have won. You'd overpowered me with logic and made me feel silly for feeling upset. And I'd gone in the restaurant and, yeah, you're right, I'm being silly. You haven't really won. No. You've, I've submitted because you were... I don't know, more smart or more aggressive or better in the moment.

But actually we've both lost because it damages the relationship. Same on my side. If I'd won, if I'd managed to get you to just come and cuddle me and go, I'm so sorry, babe, like let me, yes, isn't it amazing? And fake a reaction, I haven't won because I've done damage to you. I think it goes back to the start about when emotions were heightened because they certainly were that night, right? You were wanting a reaction from me.

I wasn't prepared to give that reaction because I didn't understand it. It would have just been, it would have been fake. Like I wouldn't have meant what I was saying. So like I was getting annoyed. You were getting annoyed and upset. It was like, well, we're not going to move past this. And I think we were probably both. And this is so normal in human.

Like you want to win. You want to be understood. Like you want to make. your point and they don't listen as it goes back. You're just, it's like, Merrigo round that isn't very merry, it's rubbish, get off. Like, if you're trying to win and score points and convince, like you've already lost and I just,

I think it's a bit gross to want to be the one that, like, dominates or comes out victorious. Like, the damage that you do by winning an argument is like quite severe. Yeah. to a long-term happy relationship. Now, obviously, there was no way we could have done this on that night, so that's why go to bed is like, was like number one. But an argument is two people that see the same thing differently.

Yeah. Which is often the case for us. Of course it is. Of course it was. We're very yin and yang, babes me and you. That is not an opportunity to. to beat bully or convince the other one into joining the other side. It's an opportunity to learn,

actually learn what's going on for your partner. It is a really amazing opportunity to understand. Now, that night, I'm crying, you're staring out the window. We're not talking to it. It wouldn't happen. But the next day, it led to, like, the most gorgeous conversation. Because I got to fully understand, why couldn't you hug me in that moment?

Why couldn't you say this? And when you explained it in a, oh my God, it makes so much sense. Yeah. And I think you got to understand why I was upset. Yeah, I think through the conversation, it wasn't, by the way, it wasn't I didn't hug you.

It was, it was, I wasn't encouraging. Yeah. It wasn't. Well, it was you did encourage and then I started crying and then you didn't cuddle me. Yeah. So then I was like,

you were fuming. Well, I was fuming at you. Yeah. Two fumers. Yeah. Two fumers don't make a... Yeah. The cuddling would have just been awkward. I really struggle with that unless I actually feel...

I know. But I'm so soft. If you ought to say, can I just start a crying the argument would have been over. Okay. You can't do it. I'm quite glad you can't use the kryptonite of physical touch against me because you don't like it. Yeah. But yeah, it's this thing of like you both can have...

different realities and actually make your mission not convincing them the way you see the world is right make your mission understanding why they see it differently caveat abusive relationships exist yeah and if you're with someone that is abusive deeply manipulative gaslighting unable like this isn't going to work they will never ever there'll be no understanding so if that's you. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Number four, I think this is so like gorgeous, is call out your own bullshit. Yeah. Again, probably difficult in the moment. This is like in the, this is the morning after or after the walk. So often when people row, they're like attacking the other one.

Yeah. Here's what you're not. seeing is why you're not listening is what you've done wrong waste of time mate nobody likes to hear that but if you turn that gaze on yourself and was like what am i like that girl on the ultimatum if she'd be like oh my god i'm raising my voice this is not okay it's disarming isn't it's so disarming yeah to call out your own BS so it's like i was able to say to you i'd made a comment well, someone else encouraged me. And I was able to say the next morning,

that was just a dick move. I was really upset. I was deeply desperate for something. I couldn't get it across. So I sort of lashed out in a childish way and I'm sorry. Yeah. And you got to sort of do that too. Well, I got to say like,

I obviously, your happiness is what is important to me. And what I missed the ball on, missed the mark on, is that I didn't know that this was happening. This was just a, in my mind, a change of, like, it's just a change. So I still. Change of plan. Yeah. It probably knocked you suddenly on changing plans.

That changes our life. I didn't even think of it from like. Well, I don't know, because I was never under the impression that you were quitting music. Like, you had said it, but I was like, I'm not sure about that. I don't know whether that's a great idea. I do love Mr. Neutral most of the time. Yeah. Most of the time.

So yeah, it's like if you've had a row with someone and you're going to make up, rather than come in with your list of here's everything you did wrong in our row, come with a list of here's what I could have done better in our route. How disarming. And by the way, not in a, oh, God, you know that like weasley way? Therapy talk way. That therapy, like, I didn't validate you. So therefore, my reality, my truth.

No, no, no. I'm talking, I was a bit defensive here. I said this, I think, to hurt you. I didn't even say good night when I went to bed. I was like withholding affection. Call out the reality, the human reality of where you could have done better. And if your partner does that, the argument's over. Yeah.

Like, it's so disarming. So, yeah. Stop having a go at them, have a go at yourself, and life will maybe get a little bit nicer. Right, before we get on to the last one, a very quick word from our wonderful sponsor, which is the amazing loop earplugs. So if you are in the middle of an argument with your partner, and they're just whining on with logic and fat, and neutrality. And to be honest, you've just had enough. Leave them be, yeah?

Pop in the loop earplugs. Pop in the lip earplugs and take them down by a few dbs. And it does just work. Takes the edge off, does it? Oh, I just say something about logic now. Oh, shesh. I can barely hear him. And it's absolutely lovely. They've got loop earplugs, not specifically for turning your partner down, but they would work. They have the loop engage, which I think would be brilliant for this. You can wear the loop engage

when you go to a restaurant and you want to like turn down the restaurant that would turn you down. You've got the loop experience that lets you go to a music festival and you've also got the loop quiet, which is for taking a nap. So I think I might be trying that

on our next rail. Okay. All of our listeners get 20% off loop earplugs. So if you go to the show notes, it will be linked there. Our website with Luke that will automatically add your 20%. You can also find it in our social media biographies. Right. Are you ready for thing number five?

Is it a big one? It is a big one and it's kind of the most important one of all. Okay. And then we're going to like work through the music argument. Sure. Yeah? What, redo it? Oh, no, I'm not redoing it.

All right. I'm having a good day. It's translate each other, which is like, except that you speak a different argument language. Like you're literally speaking a different language. You're wasting time. Translate each other. So really truly, not passive aggressive, not BS, really truly trying to understand what they're saying and what it actually means. Like often when you have a row, there's something.

like underneath that that's like probably a bit more human yeah a bit more real and probably easier to like deal with yeah so trying to figure out so if we were trying to figure out and I want to be really careful not to reignite the row but let's do like a live example oh my god translating we've already nearly argued once on this part this episode no that's just a bit rough and tumble bag that's all good um translating what was happening. So I'll like say some of the stuff that I said and you're going to translate back to me.

What's going on in my head? No, no, no. No. What I really mean, like trying to understand and then I'm going to do the same for you. Yeah. So I'll go first. So I've just disclosed that I've sort of had a fire lit for music again.

It's like passion of 20 years. I've had a tough time life. year with and you react to me and then I say, oh, I was hoping for a different reaction. If you were going to translate me saying, I'm hoping for a different reaction into what I was actually feeling and meaning, what would it be? That you are feeling positive about music and you wanted someone to. jump into that positivity with you. Just, I wanted to share the excitement with the person that I love most in the world.

So, should I go now? Yeah. So you, for context, I've been saying for a year that you don't want to do it anymore. Or thinking about it. Or like, you're not, you're not loving it. And I've been saying, I don't think you should quit. You don't have to make forever decision based on these emotions

so let's see how things go you say I'm thinking about doing it again I say well cool going to the music studio record the next album you say

I wanted you to be a bit more encouraging and I'm like I don't know I can't remember what I say but I'm completely confused because I'm like but how but is that good or bad I'm really struggling with

giving the same sort of reaction to what I've been doing the last year which I thought was supportive I thought I'd done the same thing but it was wrong well you've translated yourself oh maybe I'm not getting it then

well I guess yeah it would be when you when you were like, let's see if you still like it with all these tickets you've got to sell and you've just come off a tour that you enjoyed. Let's see if it lasts. Yeah. That's a good thing to translate because I was like, oh my God, that's so negative. Okay, I did say that, yeah.

What you meant was like almost this would be really cool if it's forever, but we don't know. We've got a few things coming up. It might change again. Let's not lock you in. I just want to support you. You just wanted to support me, basically. Yeah.

And then I start crying. Yeah. Well, when you said I'd want you to do something differently, I, that landed to me as I've done something wrong. Complete confusion. I don't know what I've done wrong. So instead of my, the only thing that I could do is ask you a billion questions about why I've done something wrong because I don't understand. I know.

And like. So we're then in question and answer modes because you need more clarity. Which is annoying you. I'm in tears mode. I just want to cuddle. And it's like, lads, just go home. I have eight hours kit and then you'll be fine. And if we go back to our ultimatum couple and what, because it was a similar dynamic.

They were younger, but I could like see these shades of how we argue. what advice would you give to them to help them, like, get through it? Well, if I was going to redo it, I think, I wouldn't, I don't want to redo the whole thing, but this might help. I think. Wait, redo our argument. Yeah. Oh, I'll take a redo.

Do you want to do a redo? Yeah, sure. All right. Oh, babe, don't know how you're going to feel about this, but, like, have actually been really excited about music again and writing songs and thinking that I might really want to like go after it again. Babe, that is amazing news. You're your happiest when you're creating and writing songs. You always have been, whether that's professionally or personally. In fairness, you change your mind every five seconds. So should we see how it is in a week? So it gets my point across, but it's also

validating. You went excitement first, which is what I was. want in and then you and then humor. I mean that would have been lovely, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe do a redo as well. Press pause. Redo it in five days. You used to do that a lot if we ever used to have a rerun. Saw it on some awful like wellness insta. I'm glad you don't do it anymore. Oh, it's a dick move. Like I'm happy we did it there. It's funny. But like, just have the argument. Like get in there. Have the argument. Sort of out. Yeah. You'll be fine. Did that, did that work?

Was that fine? Was that, would that have been an acceptable response? Yeah. Can I redo my bit? Because I, rather than crying. Yeah. So I've reacted the way that I reacted. And talking about.

I've said, okay, get in the studio then. Let's see how you feel in a month. Babe, I love so much that you're applying your amazing logical brain to this situation. and all those things are so important. But, like, just for a moment, I've missed music so much. This really hurt me that I haven't been in love with it. Can I just like get a high-five and a bit of a hype man

that maybe that's back? Yeah, sure. It wouldn't have ruined the curry as well. It was such a nice Indian restaurant. I didn't even get to eat my gnarme bread. Do you know what I mean? Why did you leave your narn bread? Because we left.

I was like, should we go? Like, it was... Oh, I didn't know you left your narn bread. Yeah, cheesy garlic narn. protested protest What a weird protest

I'm not eating that cheesy non now The only person I've heard Is me I'm owed

A cheesy non Yeah What do you think It would have bloated you out Anyway babe It would I do bloat

Maybe it was better Yeah Love you Love you Anyway that's how To argue From two people That argue

Quite a lot Now And I think And I think It's good but we've got to learn how to argue. So please don't shout at each other. It doesn't get you anywhere.

Don't try and win. Understand that two different realities can be true. I've forgotten the others. They'll pick it up. You'll pick it up. If you have enjoyed today's episode, please like, subscribe, follow, comment, all of the things that really helps.

If not, I'm not going to argue about it. I mean either. Maybe see you next week.