LATE BLOOMERS - FIGHT CLUB: The unspoken rules of conflict that could save your relationship

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Arguments don’t have to mean the end. In this raw and relatable episode, Rox and Rich unpack the hidden rules of conflict—especially in neurodivergent relationships where communication styles, emotional regulation, and processing speeds can clash hard. From shutdowns and shouting matches to storming off and saying the wrong thing, they explore how fights happen, why they escalate, and what they’ve learned about surviving them. Rox opens up about her explosive ADHD fight style and the fear that every argument means it’s over. Rich shares his autistic tendency to shut down or withdraw—and how misunderstood that can feel. Together, they reflect on the patterns that nearly broke them, and the tools that helped them break the cycle instead. This episode is for anyone who feels like they’re fighting on loop, stuck in a relationship that’s full of love but littered with landmines. Whether you're the one who yells or the one who hides, FIGHT CLUB will help you feel less alone—and give you hope that repair is possible when you finally learn the rules.

Today we're talking about fighting fair and how to actually survive conflict in a neurodivergent relationship. Are we going to relive arguments? Absolutely. We are going to talk about how some people may need connection and are emotionally intense and how other people may need to take space and shut down. Any guesses? I'm the space guy. I am the space guy. I need some time alone. Just leave me alone. This is the Late Bloomers podcast where we are getting our lives together. Eventually. Disclaimer, we're talking about being in neurodivergent relationships. I do a fish have ADHD. You

don't fish. No, I don't know what I am. Have autism, but your dad has it and Sear has it. And you do show some signs. It's safe to say you're on the spectrum, but it isn't to the point where you've wanted to pursue diagnosis. Not yet. I might do. I think I could. I think there's enough circumstantial evidence that would mean that I should maybe or could maybe pursue a diagnosis. So for this episode, we're kind of talking about ADHD versus autism. And we're going to assume a little bit.

Maybe. So talking about fighting fair between neurodivergence, I thought it might be quite fun to just bring up one of our arguments and then we can use that to dissect and help our audience learn. So if you were going to pick one of our arguments that you think best sums up our arguing styles, what would it be? And I already know what you're going to say. Yeah, there is only one. Let's say after three, ready? Three, two, one, bathroom. Bathroom. Yeah.

Yeah. That's how bad it was. Now, I have a feeling that we would tell this story differently. I think I would tell it factually. I think I would tell it correctly with all its emotional complexity. So this is about fighting fair. So I feel like we both need to have a voice in this but we don't want to bore everyone with... Well I'll do it succinctly. So why don't I share the facts and then you share your version of what happened. Your version will leave out so much crucial information about the emotional context.

Okay, well you can fill in the crucial information then. Sure, so you'll lead and then I'll fill in the things that you miss. So for the listeners, we had moved into a house, we were getting in the bathroom, we had loads of work to be done. You can't interrupt me. Wow, I've been 10 seconds. You haven't given enough. I'll context and then I'll hand to you.

Fine. So this happened last year, probably actually about a year ago. See, that's already wasted, I think. We had moved into a new house and it was super stressful because we'd moved in needing a load of work to be done. And we were like, no problem, we've got a great bargain on the house.

We don't mind living in it while the work's being done. Big mistake. It was really stressful. We didn't have carpets. The walls weren't painted. It was smelly. The bathrooms needed doing. So we were pretty stressed from the move and from all the work. The one thing that I took really seriously in all of the work being done to the house was my bathroom. And the reason is because the bath is my safe place. If I'm overstimulated, if I'm upset, if I need to relax, I go and have a bath. So like my main thing was an amazing bathroom. That's all I'm going to ask of this house.

Yes, all right, so shall I carry on? So we were getting the bathroom done, some key bits of information. Rox had been consulted and made the decision on everything going in the bathroom, that's fair to say. Nothing was done away from you, you made the decision, I knew it was your room, So your decisions, everything. So obviously Rox was the creative and made all the decisions. I had to be the one to organise it all, to make sure the builder was starting. We had all the materials, everything was ordered, delivered, everything in place,

ready to go. And this was happening tomorrow. This was happening the next day. So as in the builder, the plumber was coming tomorrow to install the sink and the bath. Everything was happening the next day. And then all of a sudden, Rox said, don't know, the bath, it was the bath, wasn't it? It was the bath was no, it was the sink. She was like, I don't think I like the sink.

I think it's too big. And I was like, right, well, they're coming tomorrow. And there'd been various pictures sent before this moment of the sink and with size references hands there like this is where it's going to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. No, I don't like it. It's too big. What do you mean it's too big? Well, I don't just, it's too big. Can we, and you were like, can we cancel it? Can we just stop and revisit? And I was like, well, no, we can't do that because there's a lot of moving parts here

we can't do that because there's a lot of moving parts here that are starting tomorrow. So I did not feel great at this moment in time. I was incredibly activated and I was like well no you can't do that. I was clearly annoyed and that triggered rocks into, I'm getting a bit frosty now, you're going to have to fill in, go on. Hand back over to me baby. So I had seen the sink before and I'd been a little bit bulldozed into it by the builder and I'd people pleased and said, yeah sure if you think it's great. And then when I actually saw it in, I realised I didn't like it and decided to speak up. Your reaction to that was to kind of go silent, give me the stare, then sit on the toilet with your head in your

hands like I'd just delivered the worst news ever. And we're going to get to this later. So at the moment, we're just talking about our experiences. So I obviously felt like I'm not allowed to change my mind. I'm not allowed to say I don I obviously felt like I'm not allowed to change my mind. I'm not allowed to say I don't like it. I'm not allowed to speak up even though that's something that's really hard for me. So you go into sort of like the silent rage and you said a few sentences, but just like, no, you can't do this. You can't do this. It's happening tomorrow. Me kind of having shown what I felt was vulnerability and

that I didn't like the sink that landed as judgment rejection. Like we did, we just didn't meet in the middle. So then I was like, well, you're, why are you ignoring me now? Will you just be mean? No, the bathroom's important. And it just spiraled. Now Now normally we can move through a row, someone makes a joke, someone asks for a cuddle, someone says do you still love me? And it's done. But we just couldn't do that. We went into the car, not talking to each other. You weren't looking at me, I wasn't looking at you. You were snapping with like directions and stuff. I tried to reconnect, I tried to hold your hand and you were like, no, I don't want to. And then that double triggered me and I was like, I'm never looking at him again. And I was staring out

the window, head turned to the left. I refused to look at you. That went on for, we would drive into a bathroom shop. Yeah. Well, I think just to add, even when you were telling the story, right, because it was so emotive, you shared that you would, you know, it was hard for you to say that you didn't like it and share vulnerability and stuff like that. And because you're a people pleaser, very much linked to your ADHD. What wasn't explained then, and neither of us did very well in validating the other one, obviously for me, the amount of change that would have been required in that instant also wasn't taken into account as to how I was feeling. We both totally dropped the ball on how to interact and just turned into teenagers, grumpy teenagers.

And it lasted a really long time. We were a bit mean, we wouldn't look at each other, we weren't loving. And it took quite a while to sort of come back together. Well, we're talking about hours here, we're not talking about days. No, it was hours, but that's quite unusual for us to be ignoring each other, huffing around. And I sort of kept trying to make my same points and get you involved in the talking. You didn't really want to talk. So we just did all the wrong things. And you know, I remember sitting in the car, body facing away, looking at me, and I'm never looking at me again. And there's that voice in my head that's like, you're 39 years old, this is your partner, you're in love, just

calm down, have a chat. And that other voice going, nope, I will not concede. It's just that moment when the argument takes precedence. So that's our argument we're going to be using to kind of dissect how different neuro types need different things. And I think it's a really good example of the clash of the neuro divergence. So an ADHDer in an argument is going to be talking a lot. They might be interrupting. They will probably be talking in circles because they'll have so many thoughts that they're trying to get out and trying to make incoherent points. RSD is going to play a really big part. So we're going to feel rejected, sensitive, criticized in that moment. And then for someone that may be on an autistic spectrum or have

autistic traits, they are going to want time to process. They're going to feel like they're shutting down. They're going to have sensory overload. So one wants to talk more to interrupt is really emotionally intense. And one wants to shut down and go away and not talk at all. The other thing as well that I think is real, like is me all over is ideal exclusively in facts, right? So like if, and you don't, you're very emotional in, in a shameful way, in a good way. But if it's not factual, it's irrelevant for this conversation. So like, do you know what I mean? Like that's how I... A hundred percent. So you want to come at it just with pure logic. I want to explain

how I'm feeling. You come at it with pure logic. My RSD is triggered. I'm really upset. I'm then emotionally intense. That sensory overload for you and you shut down. So the ADHD and the autistic, although a dream team on most days in an argument, we have totally different argument languages. Well, and even when I, even if it's not an argument, right? So if I'll say something that's upset you, I think I'm better now, but if I say something that upset you, I want to understand fully everything why I've upset you before I can then like get into like validate you mode. I'm getting a bit better at that now. It's like, because I'm now like, oh, I'm sorry. I like, I didn't mean to upset

you. I'm really sorry. But like, if I can't, you know, like the way to apologize like, I didn't mean to upset you, I'm really sorry. But like if I can't, you know, like the way to apologise is I can see that that could have blah, blah, blah. If I can't see it, I can't apologise. I'm like, let me, let me understand it first and then I'll come and apologise to you. Which now I understand that you have to understand the logic of something before saying sorry. In the early days that would feel invalidating. Well, what do you mean? What was it? I said, why did it land like that? I understand that now. So I think when you understand your partner's fight language, you can really make the right decisions in the moment.

And when you don't understand your partner's fight language, they are going to trigger the hell out of you. Yeah. And they'll double down and settle you. And they'll double down for sure. So this brings us on to the next thing, which is about misinterpreting the person's fight language or what they need. So for instance, let's take me reading you in a fight, you will often look away, disengage, shut down. Before knowing that was happening and that was your fight language, I would read that as you abandoning me, stonewalling me, shutting me off, using it almost as a manipulation tactic. I'm going to go like the silent treatment. So I read

that, your way of dealing with an argument, I read that as another way of arguing. And I would look at you and I would think this person is full of words. They're trying to bamboozle me into agreeing with them and I don't agree with them. And I'm a little bit overwhelmed. So chill out. So you read me when I'm desperately trying to seek you to understand me. You read that as overwhelming and too much and maybe even being manipulated. So again, it is so important to understand why we lean towards these different argument styles so that we don't double down. Because let's play it out. You shut down because of possible autism.

I read that as you were banding and I'm like, you're not even looking at me. You don't even want to talk to me. Then I just feel trapped. Then that doubles down on that. It all just gets so much worse and can just... I honestly think people have probably got divorced because of different fighting languages and they didn't even know that they had them. They were just like triggering each other a lot. Okay, so we can see how it goes really wrong. Like us in the bathroom story. And I imagine that loads of neurodivergent couples have got very similar experiences. But what are the keys to actually figuring out? Because that bathroom story was a year ago. We still remember it.

We haven't had a row like that since. I don't think so. year ago, we still remember it. We haven't had a row like that since. And I think we've both really tried to like, be a bit more tolerant, be a bit more understanding. So one huge thing for us, actually I'll talk about me, I'll talk thing. I now know that you need space. You have to have space to go and calm down. You might need 10 minutes, half an hour in the bedroom alone. And I understand that the space that you need is not to do silent treatment on me. It's not to abandon me. It's so you can calm down, gather your thoughts so you can get them in that logical order, and then come and sort of re-approach me when you're ready. And I've managed to get to a place now where if something is bubbling,

I can say a minute with my whole heart, do you want to have 20 minutes? I don't need this right, the combo right now. Are you okay? And actually sometimes now you'll be like, I want to go upstairs and sit on my own. But it's so lovely. We're not using it to hurt or to win or to hinder. Even in the moment of a conflict, you have got one eye on making sure the other person's okay. The one thing as well to add to it that I'll speak for you that I notice you do really well now is you will allow and accommodate for how I will potentially feel if you're

just about to change your mind on something, which happens all the time, by the way, but you won't just blurt it out. I think there's consideration for how it might land with me before you do it. Oh, I will precursor. I'm going to drop a change of plan. It's a level one, so nothing to worry about. It is about something tomorrow. I'll sort of do a very soft landing rather than that sink needs to go. Even on little things though you do it. If there's a change of plan, you'll say like, I've had a thought, no pressure if not, like, how would you feel about this? It's just really soft.

That's like a pre-argument, a pre-preventative, something that could be an argument. I mean, I think prevention would be better than defusing anyway. Yeah. So, okay, so the ways to prevent an argument. Yeah. What I do with you is I know changing plans and spontaneity can trigger an unsafe feeling. So I never make it pressurized and I never make it, you know that ADHD energy like we need to go to the theme park now and I found one, come on let's go. That excitement, that manic quality, I

really taper it down and I'll be like zero pressure. I know we'd planned to stay at home today. There's a potential in a few hours to go to a water park. There's one about an hour away. Only if you fancy it, 12 pounds, what do you think? Yeah. And that stops you ever, you know, that rigidity of, oh, the plan's changing, it doesn't happen. It also answers a lot of question like distance, price, stuff like that. All the questions

that would immediately flood into my head. So I try and give you that logic before hitting you with this functionality. So what about the other way round? How do you think you stop arguments starting with me. So I think what you need is just safety. So if I'm annoyed, and what I mean by that is I'll communicate, this is how I'm feeling, still love you, it's okay, I think you're a nobber at the moment, so I don't want to be around you for 20 minutes, but it's all like, we're all good. I just need a bit of time to decompress. Do you know what I mean? You also do something else, which is amazing in terms of the pre-fight to stop the fight. Something that we used to get on each other's nerves on a lot was

the where again shelf. Me promising that I wouldn't have one and you rolling your eyes when I inevitably did. And I'd make promises, I'd break them. You'd get really frustrated. You'd roll your eyes. It's just a toxic circle of these different ways of living. And what you do now, and actually you've just said it, it is safety. You'll come, rather than be like, oh, where again shelf again, you've just done the washing. Rather than that judgment, that exasperation, you'll sit down next to me and you'll go, bubby, I love you. But the where again shelf is getting a little out of control. And the fact that I know I'm loved and safe means that I can tolerate the

criticism. Yeah. We've got to talk about the wear again shelf just really quickly because let me see if I'm accurate with this. So the concept of the wear again shelf, I am all for by the way, the concept of it is perfect. So it's clothes that you've worn that aren't dirty, but you don't want to put them away with your clean stuff. So it's a home for your wear again. So you're going to wear them again. Because it would infect the clean because they have been worn. They don't technically fit there. The concept, in theory, that is a magical idea. The reality is it just turns into a junk shelf.

There's socks, there's underwear. It's somewhere to put things to get them out of the way so you can go to bed. So what happens is it doesn't become a wear again shelf. It becomes a pile of 50 pieces of clothing that is all going to end up getting washed because that's all infected. Like the dirty stuff is in there because it's been pushed in there. So it's now infected the wear again stuff. Do you know what I mean?

Like that's what happens, I think. My system is definitely flawed. Like I definitely cling to the fantasy that the system of a wear again shelf or chair or whatever is genius. But actually, my execution of it is so terrible. I may as well just put it in the dirty washing or hang it up. I don't know why at 40, I've never quite figured it out. And I bet you that the where again shelf, the floor, drove the chair mountain. That will be the source of so many

marital arguments. Oh my God, it will. And probably divorce is like something small like that the resentment can just build on both sides. Well look the reality is and I get lots of these questions online. The reality is I like the house really tidy all the time and you struggle with being really tidy all the time. So there's just natural inbuilt conflict from day one before you even wake up in the morning. In there though, that's the reality. We don't argue about it anymore.

No. I feel like we've both made concessions. Definitely. I don't have a floor probe. No. It's now on the shelf at the back of the bed. Yeah, it's not on the floor. That's true. Also, it's always on the shelf at the back of the bed. Yeah, it's not on the floor. Also, it's always folded.

So I've made concessions to have it in one place, to keep it folded, and it doesn't ever get too crazy to fall down. It definitely doesn't. I've upped my game a bit and you've made a concession in that it isn't, unfortunately, you're never going to live in like a super tidy house. No, it doesn't. Well, it doesn't need to be a show home every day. No, but you can live in this little bit of mess as long as we do tidy up together. You see me making a bit more effort. So it's all about that meeting in that middle ground that is so easy to say when you're not in the middle

of a raging row. I think the final thing that really can help in the moment and has helped us loads, especially with the ADHD related arguments, is that winning. Winning is so overrated. There's a quote that says if you win an argument against your partner, you both lose. Because so what? You've won, you've overshadowed someone, you've proved you're right. Maybe you've been aggressive. What are you going to get? You don't get any more intimacy. You don't get any cuddles. There's no comical coming back together. It's just horrible. You destroy your relationship. So winning

has to, you have to give up the desire to win. Why are you giggling? I know I completely agree with you, but there's nothing quite like the feeling of winning. Like that you have to fight the human emotion of I want to win this. I am right and I need to prove with everything I am right. Yeah, so it's hard to do, isn't it? Like I is right and we do pretty well at it, but in the moment you just want to prove them wrong because you're right. Oh big time. There's nothing more delicious than trying to convince someone around to your logic. But the other person's doing the same thing. Nobody wins, you just end up going in circles. Also,

saying winning is overrated, that thought comes five minutes after you've had a blaze up and someone's slammed a door and someone's in another room. It's not a thought that's in there in the moment. However, if you can agree that in your relationship, like, and fully understand we aren't here to argue with each other, we're here to always fix a problem and make it through. It can sort of diffuse you getting to that point. It reminded me of my favourite Ted Lasso quote. Oh, go on. We love Ted Lasso.

So it was Sam Obersanya's dad, and it was just simply don't fight back, fight forward. Like how beautiful is that? Fight forwards. Yeah. So in a relationship, fighting back is just arguing each other, being mean, going in circles, fighting forward is how do we resolve this and get, and get back on track. So that's, that's, will be the lovely place to finish. Right. Yeah. So let's say we've had an absolute blaze up. Yeah. You're rocking

in the bedroom convinced you're never going to speak to me again. Yeah. And I'm booking an extra therapy session downstairs because I think I'm going to need to leave you because I'm not safe here anymore. Yeah. What do you think are the best ways for a couple in that situation to actually sort it out? Because it's all well and good being like winning is overrated. If someone said that in the heat at the moment, they're going to get a punch like you can't. How how do you actually diffuse an argument? We're short of just sending some memes to each other to try and break the ice. A meme is goods, an emoji are texts.

I think just honesty, like look, because I do not mind saying to you now, I haven't had to say, I can't even remember the last time I did say this, but I do not mind saying, I'm really annoyed by this, this is how I'm feeling, just give me some time. Like, and I think no matter how annoyed I am, if I get that off my chest, I can then start, I'd start to think more rationally. I've definitely noticed that if you get that off your chest and go and have time away, you'll then come back and go, sorry, Bubby, I could see what you were saying. I meant this. I took that too far. You'll actually come back and fully just start the reconnecting. Historically, it used to be me because I couldn't tolerate.

What I would do is quite sad. I'd like skulking and be like, do you still love me? And then we'd be fine. So whether it's baby voice, a meme or someone that's had 20 minutes away, you just have to find your little ways of reconnecting. And just want to say something so important. A lot of this episode has been about people, possibly on the autistic spectrum, who do have a tendency to be overstimulated, to shut down, needing time away and how you've said, I love you, I need 20 minutes. That is very, very different from stonewalling and the silent treatment. And you need to be able to tell the difference. You say to me, I need 20 minutes away so I can come and fix this. Stonewalling is, I

don't want to talk to you and I will not talk to you until you submit. And that's actually on the abusive end of, that is not fighting fair. So we're under the assumption that you have a loving partner, you have safe communication. If someone is stonewalling you, ignoring you, using silent treatment, that's a horrendous place to be and really sorry. Well, there you go. There we have it. If you have enjoyed today's episode and you are mid-argument, hopefully this has given you the 25 minutes that you needed to go and reconnect. Imagine if you were having an argument and then the partner played this podcast in the

car. How awkward. If that's you, please let us know. It would make it worse. Would it? Or would you giggle? I don't know, maybe. I hope you've giggled. Anyway, I'm off to change the sink. See you next week.