LATE BLOOMERS - GOING TO THERAPY: Finding the right ones and surviving the wrong ones

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

We finally talk about therapy — the good, the bad, and the absolutely brutal. From Rich’s years of avoiding it to Rox’s emotional unravelling in front of multiple therapists, this episode is a brutally honest look at what happens when you actually start doing the work. We share our personal journeys: the mismatched therapists, the awkward silences, the big breakthroughs, and the breakdowns that came with them. If you’ve ever left a session feeling worse, ghosted a therapist, or wondered if therapy even works — this one’s for you. Whether you’re just starting out or deep in the process, we hope this episode helps you feel less alone in the mess of healing.

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So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Audioboom. All lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash Audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash

audio boom. Today we are going to be talking about what it's actually like to go to therapy from our first therapy experiences, some bad therapy experiences and then actually the biggest breakthroughs and some advice to people who might be looking to go to therapy. Obviously a disclaimer, we are not doctors, we're just two idiots telling you about what we've done in our lives in the hope you might find some value in it. We are not doctors, we're late bloomers. Welcome to late bloomers, where we are getting our lives together.

Eventually. Okay, so I think let's structure it a little bit. Okay. So I think let's structure it a little bit. Okay. We've got some questions that we can both answer. Yeah. So do you want me to just get straight into it and ask you the first question? I feel like I have to do another disclaimer. Go on.

Therapy is my special interest. Yeah. I annoy everybody in my life by talking about it, wanting to talk about it, reading scholarly articles, diving into deep research. So I might be absolutely insufferable. It's actually a really good point. So I think, and you know, you are better than me at a lot of things. And even, you know, the therapy knowledge will be better than me. I think that maybe I'm better at you and having a little bit more

balanced view of therapy, I think. That's it. So there you go. You're getting into somebody's obsession. So I'm pumped. Yeah, I bet you are. I bet the ADHD is twitching to get ready for this episode. I am twitching.

So I'm just going to ask you the first question. Oh yeah. What is your first ever therapy experience? I was 19 years old at university. I was missing loads of lectures, had an attendance of 5% and they wanted to kick me out. My mum was diagnosed and going through cancer treatment, terminal cancer treatment, and my university knew this. So they kind of pieced together that maybe I was struggling with uni because my mum was dying of cancer. So they suggested I see a counsellor. So I went once. Yeah. Went in.

She asked me questions. I cried the entire time about my mum dying diagnosis, how hard I was finding it. I'd never cried up to this point. So just having a sort of old friendly lady ask me how I was doing. Floodgates opened, she obviously said it would be helpful to see me again, but when I walked out I just remember wiping the tears away and sort of being like, enough of that, and then back to pretending like it wasn't happening. And I never went back. What made you go in the first place? Or did you sort of have to? I had to. It was like, do this or get kicked out.

So it was kind of a self preservation thing. I could have really done with going back at the time because I was seriously alone and struggling with a horrendous traumatic event, but I didn't know that so I didn't go. Well, I think what's important is that you didn't make the choice to go to therapy. I think that's going to come up in today's episode. If you don't make the choice, I'm not sure it's going to work.

You have to be ready to want to change and face your darkest days. And at that point, I wasn't. So what about you? What's your first ever therapy experience? So I was not as young as you. It wasn't that long ago actually. So it would have been the year before we met. So I don't know what year that would have been. 2019. 2019 was my first therapeutic experience. So I would have been 34, 35 that year. No, 34.

I was all of a sudden really struggling with quite significant anxiety. So through work, I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was like, the thing to do here is probably go and see a therapist. So I went to see a therapist and I thought it was marvelous at the time. Looking back, not so much, but he was just sort of talking to me about science and chemicals in the brain and stuff like that. And it led me to get medicated for anti-anxiety. Well, they were antidepressants, but apparently it helped both. And yeah, it wasn't big emotional chats.

It wasn't really about childhood. It wasn't big emotional chats. It wasn't really about childhood. It was about the brain and serotonin and dopamine and stuff like that, which I loved at the time because I'm properly geeky. So I really liked learning about all of that, but there was no looking back. It wasn't what I needed.

So it either was the wrong type of therapy for me or it just wasn't a very good therapist. I don't know, I'm not qualified to say, but that's my first ever experience. So question number two, what's been your bad therapy moment? What's the worst therapy moment that you've had? So I've got two. Oh, you've got two? I'm going to be as quick as I can. Okay.

The first one was when I was 22. And this was when my mum had died and it was in the months after her death. And I was really, really struggling with not wanting to be here anymore. And I just, I couldn't cope. And I'd been left a little bit of money, I think £15,000 from her. And I used some of that money to go, and it won't surprise you, I looked up the most expensive therapy to me, which was like the Priory in near Southampton. And I went there to try and get help with what I was going through. It was difficult because my dad was super angry that I was going to therapy.

So it was in a very chaotic, quite shaming environment I chose to go. And it was with an older guy who would explain stuff to me and chat stuff through. But I got to maybe my third or fourth session with him. So I was going back, I was like committed to it and he made a comment. I was telling some story and he made a comment, which was, you would have been just my type when I was younger. That's great. I'm 22 years old.

My mom's just died. I'm having suicidal ideation. I'm there for help. And this 50 year old bloke is making what felt like an advance on me. And I felt just devastated and violated. And I never went back. I never spoke to him, never lodged a complaint. I just knew in my body, I don't want to be around that went back. I never spoke to him, never lodged a complaint. I just knew in my body, I don't want to be around that guy anymore. I've met lots of guys like that, unfortunately, lots of young women do. So yeah, that was one. And then the second one was leaving a therapist. One I went to for a couple of years in 2020, one who helped me loads, but the relationship became

unhealthy. She started crossing loads of boundaries with me and I didn't know that's what was happening. But again, it was this feeling of I'm not safe. Something's happening to me that I don't like. Again, I didn't say anything. I just kept going back. No, no, this is therapy. This is what it's meant to feel like. And it got so bad that I just realized I was showing up just to be there for her and just to please her and do it her way. And I was paying to do that and it was really hurting me. So I had to send an email and leave and it was so devastating. It was like going through a breakup. It was devastating for me to leave her. I think I remember the situation and it certainly felt like some of the

behaviours were more like a friend would act rather than a therapist. And it became really confusing, didn't it? I mean, she was texting me outside of sessions. She was sharing loads of personal information, asking me for help and advice. And I'm a people pleaser. So I relished stepping into that role, but then it became really harmful. And that's just the importance of having a therapist with like incredible boundaries that they call it the therapy frame, the frame in which you feel safe. So making sure therapists are always on time, making sure therapists do not pursue any kind of friendship, making sure everything they do is for your benefit, not theirs. Making sure that there's a really clear fee policy.

All of the rules around therapy. You need a therapist who's rock solid with those. Well, really interesting. It's just sprung up into my mind and anybody on, you know, that's listening to this, that's considering going to therapy, it's really important that you know that because both of those situations, one gross man making a pass at you and one overstepping boundaries just shows to me and just proves that these therapists are human as well. And not all humans are brilliant,

not all humans are perfect and not all humans do their job perfectly. So if you know as the patient exactly what to expect and what's okay and what's not okay, you can know when boundaries are being crossed. I think that's super important actually. And it's so crazy because before you start therapy, we all just think therapists,

like they're all one and the same. They're all great healers and going to do amazing work. And there's not some are great at their job. Some are not. Some are going through a tough time and are going to get it wrong. Some will be triggered by you and their own stuff will bring into it. So yeah, like we need to know. Yeah. We need to know what is acceptable and what's not. And later on, we'll get into a little bit of that. OK, so what's your bad therapy moment? Mine's quite funny. I saw a therapist that, again, was amazing for me,

that really helped me process some childhood stuff, and more importantly, helped me, sort of gave me the tools to be able to regulate my own emotions and get through things myself. But it was after a while of seeing this therapist, I was talking about something that I was struggling with and she asked me to start praying with her. And I'm just not that target market. Like that wasn't for me. I was sitting there thinking what the hell is going on?

Like it was so surprising, but I wasn't sad about it. I just sort of walked out and was like, right. I'm never seeing that person again because that all just got a little bit weird and it didn't align with my beliefs. I don't think it was appropriate. You know, yeah, that was my bad moment. And it's, it's so inappropriate to bring your own spiritual beliefs into therapy, where the patients know you weren't in this situation, okay, but often the patients are so impressionable, so wanting to please, so desperate for help. You can really see how that could seriously hurt vulnerable people. Now, by the way, I've been a little dilly

daddly in the old Christianity myself. And I'm not against people praying, but we've been together five years. I've never said that to you. I've never tried to push my beliefs onto you. It's not okay. And it's again, it's just another example of boundaries. They are there to help you. They aren't there to push their agenda onto you. Now she obviously thought she was helping you. And she did not. Okay, so we've talked quite a bit about some of the bad things that have happened to us. So what's your biggest breakthrough about therapy or with therapy? I can feel myself already being way too over the top here, but I have two again. Like, I'm sorry. Well, we're going to need to start monitoring this.

I'll be as quick as I can. You're overstepping boundaries here. I am. I'm a boundary crosser. OK, So number one was I was reading a text from my dad to my current therapist. I was all upset. Why would he call me this? Why would he say that? Why would he do this?" And it was some really specific language and it was the use of the word devious. And it just confused me. I didn't understand. I wanted to prove I wasn't devious. I was totally in like helpless kid mode. Totally in like helpless kid mode. And my therapist knows the history of my family and when, you know, growing up would devious be a word, you would have described some of your

dad's behaviours. And then I won't go into it, but it was long-term infidelity. And I said, yes. And he said that it's incredibly common if someone hates a part of themselves deeply and that they cannot get anywhere close to sitting with it, understanding it, changing it, they project it out. And often a child is the perfect recipient of that. And I've read stuff like that a million times, but it's never changed anything. But the relationship me and my therapist had, the depth of which he knew me, the way he said it in that moment, something clicked. And it was like, I could feel I was being projected onto. And that's not my... Devious isn't mine. Devious isn't mine. Devious is yours. And I haven't really, I used to cry about that text every day for like a year. I don't even think about it. I was just able to go, whoop, yeah, bloody lovely. And the second one, brutal, was about my people pleasing or chronic self-neglect behaviours. Leaving a therapist because they were crossing my boundaries, I wasn't saying anything, I was letting it happen, I felt

complicit in what was going on. That version of me was also the version in all my friendships and relationships. So this same pattern would always happen to me. I would feel like I was being used and taken from, I wouldn't say anything because I would expect them to just pick up on it. It would obviously keep going to the point when I'd snap and I'd end up that friendship relationship therapist thing. So that dynamic was brought into my current therapy and he asked me a question about why don't you speak up in the moment when you are feeling uncomfortable, feeling hurt? And I went, because it's easier, it's easier not to. And he just looked at me and

went, is it? And it flooded my brain with all of these friendship breakups, the therapy I'd had to leave, all of the discomfort I'd been in for months, not telling people how I felt. And I just realized my whole life was a lie. It's not easier. And the brutal reality that it was me, it was my lack of voice, lack of saying how I felt that was part of the problem. So now you're really good at telling people. I mean, I'm working my ass off to get better and you live with me. Yeah.

Have you seen improvement? Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Come on, it's paying off. Okay. So what has been your biggest therapy breakthrough? I think that from where I started was a complete unknown and you sort of had this vision that they were all sort of magicians and work magic and they cast a spell on you and all of a sudden better. And I think my biggest breakthrough is quashing that. Like these aren't, they're amazing and they're very knowledgeable, but they're still just humans. They're not, they're not magic. And actually you're in therapy, you're in therapy for maybe one hour of one week.

Um, every week. So the work actually, the improvements and getting better happens outside of the therapy room, all you do in there. And what has really helped me is it increased my self-awareness hugely. So when I feel a certain way, when I act a certain way, I can really sort of, maybe not always in the moment straight away, but I definitely have got the tools and ability to afterwards reflect and understand why that happened.

So bringing it to a moment, this is going to sound really silly, but you'll know exactly what I mean. One change in you, and I've seen loads, but one change I've seen in you, you you used to rage clean the kitchen in our old house. If you were upset or angry at me or one of the kids, you would go silent and you would go and sort of clean the kitchen like this. Why doesn't that happen anymore?, how did therapy get you to? I think I've just got a better understanding. So back then I would be filled with this uncontrollable rage. The only way I could deal with it is either have a blazing argument or take it out on the kitchen utensils and scrubbing the sides and

stuff. I mean, our kitchen was tidier, so it had some benefits. But now, now all would happen if you annoy me, Sia annoys me, Lily annoys me, I get annoyed. I would, I still feel that same rage, but I'd be like, I'm really annoyed. I can't talk about it right now because I can't think clearly and it'll be an argument. So I'm going to take myself off and I'll do something away from people or I don't usually go for a walk. I'll usually scroll TikTok or play a video game or watch

telly or do something, whatever it is that takes me out of that like activation stage. And then only when I'm through that I'll be able to think clearly. And that's taken some work from us, right? Because you would always want to be like, no, let's talk about now, we can't have anything unsaid. And that just, I can't work like that. So like that's taken some communication. We found our own way and it's so different. I will have a tear up and need to have a cuddle and you will need to have a moment alone. And it's when you know that and know how each other works. It's just brilliant. It's just brilliant.

So yeah, in summary, my biggest breakthrough is understanding that the therapists aren't magicians and actually all the skills that you need to get better, get more emotionally available, get better with your emotions is all in you. It's just a learn skill stroke of motion. Okay, next question. What would you say the signs of a great therapist and similarly red flags of a therapist? So obviously we've spoken a little bit about it already. Hitting on you, that's a red flag, yeah. Hitting on you is a red flag. Now obviously it depends what you're going to therapy for and there's so many different types of therapy and it can be so confusing what type to go for and I've tried loads. Counselling, EMDR, trauma therapy and then now in psychoanalytic therapy. So great therapists can be anywhere in any modality.

And I think it's about their experience, the depth of their own therapy. I think it's about, do they have a supervision, a supervisor? Great supervision can really, really help. And do they hold the frame? There's a really amazing program in the UK. Is it BBC three? What program are you talking about?

That therapy program. Oh, I can't remember. Yeah. And watching that really helped me fully understand what was going on in the room. You see her in supervision, you see her being aware of what's brought up in her with the clients. It's just someone with a deep awareness of their own reactivities, so they don't bring that in. own reactivities, so they don't bring that in. For me personally, if I'm just talking about me, I truly believe I'm in great therapy now. I can feel the difference. It's really hard. Psychoanalysis is really hard, but it's been fantastic. And the qualities that he has, it's neutrality, it's really firm boundaries. It is also kindness and empathy in the right moments. And it's

a rock solid frame, times and fees and rules. So I feel really protected. And then red flags being hit on, being told to pray your problems away, wanting to meet up or text outside of session, getting angry with you or punishing you. What about you? What do you think makes a great therapist? So I think they need to be good people. And let me explain. Obviously, the skill that they learn, they need to go to university and they need to study and they need all of these qualifications. But I think something that resonated with me just from my different therapy experiences is everybody's different. Everybody will onboard information differently, everyone will learn differently, everyone will respond differently. And it's the same in a classroom, right? Like you've got different styles of

learning. So somebody that takes the time to understand the individual that they've got opposite them, like, you know, there's, we think that I might have autism. So there's certain social bits of conversation that I find really difficult. And I'm not, you know, them understanding that. Some people will like to chat a lot. Some people will really hate silences. Although sometimes silences will be needed.

I think them taking the time to understand me or you as an individual sitting opposite them, and what you really like how you learn, coupled with the knowledge, of course, the actual process will be a learned process, and they'll have flowcharts and they'll understand that this structure needs to happen. But alongside that, it should be in the best way that you can retain, gather and express information. And you know, my first ever therapist, it was like, you know, that schoolteacher that just read out the textbook.

I don't know whether you had one. I certainly did. It just didn't work for me. Sometimes that would work for loads of just didn't work for me. Sometimes that would work for loads of people, but just not me. And so I think that is important for me. 100%. Yeah. It's so much about the relationship, how important that relationship is between the two. Like you're not there, it's not like you're just getting

a blood test and being told something. You're getting to know someone on a really, really deep level. What about red flags in your mind? I mean, look, I think they should, the exact same red flags as you would put on a human, they should be your red flags in a therapist as well. Like if they get too familiar, too close, inappropriate, too many jokes. Like, do you know what I mean? Like they need to, the red flags that align to your moral compass, whatever they are, should be applied to your therapist, I think. The difficult thing is so many people going to therapy, going there, because they don't see people's red flags. People that end up being emotionally abused or other things.

It says, it's very, very scary, isn't it? To be vulnerable and then put yourself in someone else's hands without knowing. No, it's a real, and probably takes me back to what I said earlier in the episode in understand the rules of therapy, understand exactly what should shouldn't be discussed and boundaries and then soon as the boundaries are crossed, you're in your most vulnerable situation going like get a different one. 100 percent. OK, so last question.

What advice would you give someone thinking about therapy? So first of all, I would say, I don't think I'd be alive without therapy. It has fundamentally changed my life. Even some of the bad experiences, there were really good things learnt. The therapy that I'm currently in is fundamentally changing the DNA of me as a human being and it's making life way more full and fun and making me more confident. So like thoroughly recommend it. Number two, I would say that if you're early in your journey, it's easy to think all therapists

are the same. They are not. You need to spend time researching what type of therapy is going to work best for you. Reading reviews, even in the intake phone call or meeting asking if they're in supervision, have they done their own therapeutic work? Really tough to do, but those things are so important. Number three, and this is absolutely brutal to say, but when we go on insurance or when we go in the UK to free therapy that might be provided, insurers and governments are looking for the quickest therapies to show improvement. An eight week course so they can get you in for eight weeks, only have to pay for eight sessions and then get to say that you're better. What they absolutely aren't going to love is long-term open-ended psychoanalytic therapy. It's my personal opinion, having tried a lot of types, that is one of the best types of therapy

you can get. It's the original therapy, it's derived from Freud. Obviously it's changed so much since those times. But it's long term, you might be going for one year, two years. Governments don't want to pay for that, insurance don't want to pay for that. And then we also raise the question of humans having to pay for it themselves. The privilege of that, where it comes in your priorities list of expenditures. And I've put therapy on a credit card. I'm not recommending that to anyone. And then the final thing is that you bring yourself to therapy. And what I mean by that is all of the issues that you have in relationships in your life outside of therapy, you will

recreate that, you will bring that into therapy. So like you have to be aware that that's going to happen. So let's say you are someone who's often paranoid and thinks the world is against them and you see people talking about you or trying to screw you over, you're going to come into therapy and probably think your therapist is doing the same thing. When you're aware of that, it makes it better because you get to stay, you get to realise when it's coming up and that's why you need a therapist that understands that as well. There you go. There you go. So what about you? What's

your advice to somebody who might be thinking about going to therapy? Well, I'm going to answer as a man. And unfortunately, the reality is I don't think most men think about going to therapy. So all I would say is it's not what maybe you think it is. It's not, you don't have to do all the woke, I see you, I hear you, I feel you and all that stuff that is like you just get aggravated with when you see it on the internet and it's not real. Like it's really helpful and it can change, it can change your life. And you can still be a bloke. You can still go to the pub and take the mick out of people

and still love football. And still, you can do all of that, but you can just be more self-aware and better with your emotions. It's very feminized for all the wrong reasons. I don't know why, but I'm talking about, you know, there were plenty of men that are emotionally attuned and this doesn't apply to you, but a lot are just, oh, oh, oh, it's like stupid. Like, why would we do that? Let's go down to the pub, whatever. Let's just have a chat.

It's all going to be all right. Like, that's just the reality, that was my reality. And it just doesn't, it doesn't need to be, it can be harder. And the second, I've got two as well now. The second thing is do it, like don't go and do therapy if you're persuaded to do it or you have to do it. Like it's no point, it won't work. If you go in pessimistically, it won't work. They're not magicians.

They can't cast a spell on you and change your life. You have to really want it. You have to be the one to be like, I need to do work. I want to get better at this, that and the other. And I don't have the skills to do it. So I'm going to go and learn the skills. Like think of it like you want to be a mechanic. You really want to. It's your dream. You need to go and learn how to do it like you want to be a mechanic. You really want to, it's

your dream. You need to go and learn how to do it. That's exactly the same thing. That's my view. Therapy anyway. You have to be ready and you have to want it. Because actually you have to work really hard. You have to consistently show up and work hard and want to change. If you don't want to change, therapy won't work. It's like quitting smoking stop and drinking, whatever. Like if someone tells you to do it, you just won't. You just won't do it with the same conviction.

And if you don't go into therapy with full conviction, it won't work. And then you'll be one of the ones going, why try therapy? It was shit. It didn't work for me. Well, that's because you didn't show up. Like that's, that's my, that's my thing. Anyway, my two pence were direct straight in. in. So lovely. That has been our therapy episode. Let us know in the comments if you have had a type of therapy that has been game changing for you or if you've had a bad

experience. Let's have that conversation. Let's share knowledge in this sphere. And if you've liked this episode, give us a like, give us a follow, leave us a cheeky review. And if you didn't, just don't. Just scroll on by. If you didn't go to therapy. I'm so kidding. Thank you so much. This has been Late Bloomers and we will see you soon. When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, all birds, skims, sure, you think about a great product,

a cool brand, and brilliant marketing, but an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling, and for the shoppers buying, simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not-so-secret secret, with ShopPay, that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning

way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going... So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more, sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Audioboom. All lowercase.

Go to Shopify.com slash Audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash Audioboom.