LATE BLOOMERS - LATE BLOOMERS: Why it's never too late to re-write your story

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

In this episode, we’re unpacking what it truly means to be a late bloomer. Rich and Rox share the areas in their lives where they’ve bloomed later than expected—Rich in work, emotions, and love, and Rox in music, love, and adulting. Along the way, they reflect on the lessons learned from failure, the beauty of second (or third) chances, and the power of persistence. This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt “behind” in life or worried they’ve missed their chance. Rich and Rox remind you that it’s never too late to go after your dreams, build the life you want, and rewrite your story—one step at a time. Whether you’re chasing love, success, or self-discovery, this is your sign to start now.

Welcome to Late Bloomers, where we are getting our lives together eventually. Yes, we are. Today we're talking about late bloomers. Is that right? How to actually be a late bloomer and what one is. Well, let's start there. What on earth is a late bloomer? Somebody that gets their life together a little bit later than what might be expected. So it might be starting a business later in life, finding love later in life, essentially like finding your

potential after maybe messing up your life. For the record though, you are later in life than me, aren't you? So like you're... I am nono, a year older than you? That's not a no, that's still a yes. So like you... Well technically I'm in my 40s and because you're 39 you are in your 30s. Exactly. I'm just a whippersnapper. I'm fine with that. 40s is the golden age. I've never been happier. Yeah. And this is obviously a big topic and this is why we've named the podcast,

Late Bloomers, right? So why is it important? Why are we talking about it? I think because in society, there is a crazy pressure to follow a timeline, to go to uni, to get a job, to get married, to have kids, to own a house. And I was so far away from that timeline. You end up feeling like you're failing. You feel ashamed. You feel like the world's most rubbish human and actually literally amazing stories can happen later in life. Amazing love stories and businesses and becoming parents and doing epic stuff.

And I just think it's so important that people realise that just because it hasn't happened as a teenager or 20s or 30s or 40s doesn't mean it won't happen. Never too late. It's never too late. And even more than that, I would go even further and say it's not just that it's not too late and you've still got a chance. It's the perfect time. Yeah, with your life experience, your resilience, your growth, your perspective, we actually need people that have been through

stuff to come and bloom and find their thing. And we have been through stuff, right? Like that is. We have been through a fair amount of stuff. So obviously we're both sort of late bloomer type people. If you were to look at your life and pick the three areas where you've been a late bloomer, where it's like had the most

epic impact, what would they be and can we just hear a little bit about them? I won't pick this one but I reckon I physically matured with age a little bit. What you got hotter? Yeah I think so. Like I feel a bit like, do you know what I mean, That's not an all right thing to say. When we met, you were very much like a dad. Like, Oh, I am still a dad. No, but now you're like a hot dad. You were just like a sort of, I can't explain it. Just you had a dad little short back and sides.

You was a bit chubby from all the drinking. All right. I loved you. That's how we fell in love. That was the version. I've got tattoos and long hair now. You've got tattoos and long hair. So you found your personal style a bit later in life. What do you think? Why did you find that later in life? Why did you suddenly get late thirties and suddenly get loads of tattoos and grow your hair?

Midlife crisis. And I started dating an emo. So I needed to- So it's my fault. Yeah, but in a good way. Like I love, in a good way. I love the look now. But I didn't really get most of my tattoos

until late 20s, early 30s, dyed my hair blue in mid 30s. Yeah. So I was late blooming with identity as well. Isn't it interesting? Yeah. I'll give some serious answers now, actually. Cause although I do like my tattoos and long hair, I don't think that is going to be the main things. I think it's given me a chance to think about the question

as well. So the three areas I think that I've been a late bloomer, one would be professionally. So whilst I was doing okay, I worked in a bank and I'd worked in the same company for 20 years, over 20 years, 21 years I think, by the time I left. Can't relate, sorry. Yeah, and I bet you can't.

And I'd worked my way up to a fairly senior level. I was in charge of a lot of people in a big building and in a big bank. But I hated it. So like, you can't be successful if you hate your job, right? Like, oh, maybe you can. I don't know if that's an even okay thing to say, but I was miserable. It depends what metric you use. Yeah.

So you were earning a good salary. Yep. You could look after yourself and two kids and rent was always paid. You had a company car. Yeah. So if you're looking at it through that metric, you were successful. However, I think success has to also include personal joy and happiness. That's like, what is the point?

Yeah. What's the point of being successful if you hate your life? Yeah. And, and although I was, you know, fairly successful, if you use those metrics, I would deem myself to be a late bloomer professionally. Because one, I love my job now. So like we do this, we make videos on the internet, we built an app, we've written a couple of books that have done fairly well.

And I love it. Like, so financially, I'm out performing what I used to do. But more importantly, I just love, it doesn't feel like a job. It just feels like life. Like I never thought that sitting in a podcast studio with a pink microphone would feel like, like it would be a job. It just feels like fun, right?

Like that's the win, I think. If you can find a job that you love and feels like fun. And I reckon there's so many people that have got books inside them, TV shows, Etsy businesses, being a parent, whatever it is that thing that you may have put off or may have thought isn't for you anymore and it still can be. I think the thing about your story that's so interesting is for me, I always compared myself to the timeline. So my friends that went and got graduate jobs, got girlfriends,

got married, had kids, bought houses. Yeah. And I was so far behind and outside of that. I felt really left behind. But you did that. Yeah. You had kids, you got married a couple of times. You bought a house, you had a steady job for 20 years. So what's crazy to me is that your story actually shows even if you follow the societal pressure, you still might find, might not find your happiest life. Yeah. And the thing is, although we do the same job and we're a partnership sort of professionally

as well, I think we enjoy them for different reasons. We obviously enjoy the freedom and the time and stuff like that. But actually, when I was in my job in the bank, I wanted to run my own business. Like I thought running a business I'd be good at. What I was missing, and I always said it, I said it as a bit of a joke. I was like, I'd be good at what I was missing. And I always said, I said it as a bit of a joke. I was like, I'd be good at running my own business. I just don't have any ideas. If I could, if someone could give me the ideas, I'll run it.

And then we'll you in, you are full of ideas every, like every hour. I was going to say every day that wouldn't do it justice every hour. So like we've now got the ideas person and the person that actually executes the business side of things. Dream team basically. Okay. So your number one late bloomer is leaving a long-term steady job to go and build your own business. Yeah.

Finding a lot of joy and I guess taking that risk, having that self belief, which is amazing. What is another area where you've been a late bloomer? I think this is probably more important. Um, but emotionally, I think I have bloomed late. What do you mean? I well, I was struggling with addictions, both gambling and alcohol. That was just to numb the fact that I wasn't

emotionally available. I couldn't face things. So obviously went and got some therapy. Quite a lot of therapy thought I'd completed the level by the way, went for a few therapy sessions was like, I'm cured now I'm all fine. stopped too early and ended up in bed with anxiety that I couldn't move like quite, quite debilitating. So went back to therapy, sort of a sort of two stints. But actually what it's done is just make me emotionally better, I suppose more mature.

I'm a better parent, which is probably the most important thing. I'm a better partner because we're not divorced. I've had two of those. Third time lucky. That said, we're not at the seven year mark. It's always seven years. How long I've got like two years left. Both, both, both relationships were seven years. Yeah. But I'm, I'm pretty confident we're going to get through the seven year. Yeah, we can hope. But I think all of that, none of that would

have been possible. If I wasn't possible if I didn't mature mentally. So you're sort of saying therapy and emotional maturity. What does it look like to be emotionally immature? Maybe that's a bit shaming. What were you like before with emotions? Why was it an issue to you? Well I couldn't have deep conversations. I remember one of the first times we met,

you asked me a question and I gave you such a like, crap, arrogant answer. When? Like you used to do these checking things where you could rate out of 10 how you were feeling or like how much you love yourself. And that was it, you were like, how much do you love yourself? And I was like, 11.

Yeah, like still drinking, just an absolute idiot. And like, I couldn't go deep. It was, it was all superficial conversations. I didn't really know how to parent. Not really, not because I wasn't in tune emotionally with myself, let alone have the ability to be in tune emotionally with my kids. So it was all very, I was probably best mates with my eldest, we would we would be drinking on a Friday night playing video games. And my youngest even today, right, it's great that she says it, but also brings a bit of sadness. Um, I don't snap anymore. She's, she's, she used to call me snappy daddy is how she referred to me now. Like

when things annoyed me, I would like snap and bark and stuff and now I won't. Like, and I think I've got a better relationship with both my kids now hugely. And, and, and I could, I could say it's sobriety. It's a bit of everything. And I think all of it wrapped up has just made me better emotionally. I mean, that's what a beautiful place to be a late bloomer in with a parent. And I think both your kids have shown it actually doesn't matter what age your parent comes back to connect with you, to be more attuned, to really be able to listen, to be able to express if they've

pissed you off without shouting and to have a really good convo. Because they're both so much happier. And I can see that having been in their lives for the last few years, there's so much happier, there's so much calmer, there's so much more trust. Don't argue with them at all. There's no arguing. Yeah. No. And I think that is so beautiful.

That's what they call breaking the cycle. Yeah. Um, so obviously work, it's so amazing to build a, a career that you absolutely love, but being an incredible parent, I don't know that just... I wouldn't say I was an incredible parent. It's very kind of you to say. Yeah, like, no, I think I'm pretty good and I think they're pretty happy and I think that is the best I can hope for.

Well, actually in therapy, there's this thing people say, which is about being a good enough. Yeah. And good enough doesn't mean, oh, you're just about being good. You're just about looking after them well enough. It means that good enough is actually the best option. Yeah. Because if you were a perfect parent, you don't show your kid how to fail, how to have struggles, process tough stuff. So actually being good enough

is the best you can be. So I actually do think that you are pretty incredible. I think anybody that you had a very certain way of being with your kids, friends with the eldest and a bit snappy with the youngest, although there was a lot of love there, but you weren't really like emotionally in tune. You were fought so hard for that part. And I've watched you face your past, your own upsets, your own anger. Sometimes it's so difficult to realise when we have to change and you've done that so hats off because I think that's one of the most important things you can

do for a kid. Yeah, I think the one thing that I'll say before moving on from being a parent, um, and I think that this would be advice. I'm not one to give advice, but this one I will. One of the things I used to be with my kids was always right. I always believed I was right because I'm the parent. So sort of what I say is right and that's it. Now I'm wrong loads and having the ability to say, I got that wrong, I'm sorry and apologize to your kids is like gold dust because it's like, you know, I think about my little one, it's okay, daddy,

don't worry. But like it teaches them such a valuable lesson of accountability. Like that's, that's the big thing for me. Well, if you want your kids to take accountability, you have to model it. Yeah. And that's what you do. So amazing. So we have late blooming in your career. Yeah. As a parent. Yeah. And what would be the third thing? It's, I don't want to sound cringe, but it's got to be you, isn't it? It's got to be relationship,

late bloomer. Two divorces down. I don't want to be Ross Geller off of Friends. I think he was divorced three times. And I think, you know, it's not just clearly we're in a happy relationship beyond all measure, but we never argue. There's never conflict. There's always understanding. I think that is something that I never felt possible. And like a lot of this is going to be interlinked, right? Like I wouldn't be able to do it if I wasn't emotionally mature. And so it all sort of happens all together. But yeah, I think romantically, we're just like, we joke, don't we? Like cringe-fest, but we're just like four little feet together doing the world.

It's adorable. Adorable and cringe. And both cringe in equal measure. But what do you think changed? Because when we very first met, I remember you saying to me, I've got no interest in love. I'm never getting married again. Like I'm done. And you really meant it.

Like you were fully done. It was you, a few beers, your video game. That's all you needed. And then you came along. Cheers. I had my perfect plan. What changed? It was a bit of everything.

It was sobriety. It was, I think therapy was the big one. Therapy was the one that took us from the honeymoon stage, which everyone is a victim of, right? Like, oh, yeah, it's everything. You're wonderful. You're the best person in the world. You're not neither am I. But like, we're amazing together. And it's like it was therapy and maturity and conversation and vulnerability and all of that stuff that we do. I think, well, better than anyone I know anyway, is what is that's where real

happiness comes in, not like not the drug of the dopamine when you're first together, the real happiness is where we are now, I think. Isn't it insane though, to both of us live our whole lives, never knowing that that sort of relationship or that love was available? Yeah, but I think there's a lot of people that would never find like, I know people, adults, generation above me, that I look at and they definitely never found it. And I'm not saying a perfect relationship, I'm just saying a truly connected one. I just don't think I think loads of people, unfortunately, that's really sad, but. Okay. So we've had your career, had sort of emotionally in you as a parent, and then we've had love.

Three awesome areas to be a late bloomer. To ask you one question about all of those. What is something that failure has taught you that success couldn't. So what has divorce taught you? What has working a job you hated for 20 years taught you? What has being snappy daddy taught you? I suppose, you know, I don't want to be over simplistic, but it's how not to do it, right? Like how not to,

because without that, I wouldn't have learned. Like I sometimes look at these people that have never needed therapy and they're all just like happy and going through life like happy as Larry. Whatever, but I'm not, I'm not jealous of them because they don't have the same level of knowledge that I do about getting through it and the gratitude that comes with that, whether that be professionally, whether that is as a parent, the people that are just great and securely attached and don't struggle with mental health issues. I'm happy for them, but I wouldn't want to be them because I honestly think like the good for me now is better than it, than it could be because of where I've come from.

That's incredible. I feel exactly the same. You learn so much in the trenches. You learn so much when it goes wrong. So I guess I'll do my three. I'm the late bloomer in every area. The latest bloomer. Well not only 40. No but out of us two. You gotta stop banging on. I can't stop. I'm sorry. Okay. So number one is going to be career. And obviously we, you know, built a social media project together. We do this together. We've written books together. That was way out of left field. Never knew that was happening. So although yes, like I have late bloomed in that area, I never dreamt of it. It was totally just like a wild card. So that's just

feels like a bonus. I love all this. I love working with you. It's unbelievable. But the area where I've been a late bloomer is in music because I have tried and failed. So many times I had my Roxanne Emery project, I had a little band called Seams, I had Holy Waters. I've managed loads of artists, I've run a record label, I've been a songwriter. I've always been around and I've always seen myself as failing. I wasn't failing, I was actually learning on the job, but I put so much pressure on myself to succeed that when it didn't happen for me, I saw it as failure. But actually, I needed to go through all of that to be here now.

Music is notoriously a bit ageist, especially towards women, female presenting people. So to go back to music, I think I was 36, 37 when I joined TikTok. It's so ridiculous. You just don't do it. Like you settle down into being a songwriter where you're supposed to be. And that's it. You stopped dreaming, but I didn't. For some reason I came back to be an artist. An actual rock star. Let me just say, like, I don't know whether you would say it or not, but

like I was at the festivals and at them stages and it was insane. The amount of people screaming your music. Like legit are a rock star now, even if you don't want to say. I think I'm like a level one rock star maybe. You're still a rock star, you're still in the arena. So that's insane. So if I looked to myself at 36, newly sober, in debt, single, hating myself, full of shame,

I looked really different, I would never, ever, ever, ever have dreamt of standing on stage at Download, having thousands of people to get from that person like that was so low to this person living their dreams. So why is it, why go from loads of failed artist projects to this one working then? What? So obviously sobriety. This is the first project I've done sober.

Therapy. Dealing with some of my biggest traumas and pains that really helps me to not self-destruct. Like I'm really focused on the goal and I work really hard and I'll never block my blessings now, whereas I used to. And you, you're like the energy. No, I'm the energy behind it, but you're, you keep us going the right way. You do all the sort of finances. You drive the van, you help sell merch. If I want to spend too much money on a music video, you help me to see that I

need that to make the next record. So you're a huge support. I couldn't do it alone. Um, I also have an amazing team now, but when I did it before, when I made my first album, I was alone. It was like me alone. It's so sad to think about. Yep.

Alone. It's so sad to think about. Yeah. But the crazy thing is I never ever knew it was going to work. I never knew I'd be on stage. I'd be going on tour or selling vinyls, doing an album. I just knew that I had to try again. Glad you did. I'm so glad I did. Your fans are certainly glad you did.

I'm so glad that I did, but yeah, I guess. So career for number one for you. But there's something more I want to say about that, which is, you know, like on X Factor, they have the over 25 category. Yep. And it's almost like the sympathy category. Oh, they've been working a normal job and they're coming back for one last chance at 25. And I am 40. category, they've been working a normal job and they're coming back for one last chance at 25. And I am 40. Right. It almost makes you feel like you have something to be ashamed about and that you're coming back begging shoulders down. I'm a bit older. What I have

learned is my age is my superpower. I've got two decades worth of stories to sing about. Yeah. I don't care what people think about me. So I'm going to show up with my hairy armpits and my rock songs about trauma. I don't care whether you like it or not. Yeah. I am never going to quit on myself. My alcohol days are behind me. My rock and roll days, fake rock and roll days are behind me. My rock and roll days, fake rock and roll days are behind me. Now I'm focused on the real ones. It is a superpower. So I just think like to anyone listening that's waiting, that's down on themselves

thinking they've missed their chance. This isn't about a sympathy. Try it again. It's about what if you actually have the tools to be your most powerful iteration because of everything you've been through. Inspiring. That's a that's a solid start for your number one. I don't know how you're going to follow that. So what's number two? You and I'm not just saying that because you said me. I had 10, you had two divorces. I had 10 back to back overlapping relationships where I always thought I was in love. It was going to last, would move in and then it wouldn't.

I never made it past a year. Once I got to three years actually, but all the others were about a year. What are we now? Five. Wow. Yeah. Look at us.

On your timeline, we've got two years left, Sam. But I'm smashing your timeline. Yeah, you are. Yeah, okay. You are. So to go from that, someone that just was constantly changing partners to finding actual like real safety, security, love, family.

Because when I met you, your little buy one get two free situation, I also became a step mom. And I'd always sworn I never, ever, ever, ever, ever wanted kids. No interest, nada. Never even considered it. Yeah. And I was using occasionally dating apps. I'd always make sure no kids. So we wouldn't have even, you would have swiped, what way do you have to swipe? You wouldn't have even come up because you wouldn't have been, also I would have said over six foot. So you would have been... Oh, hang on a minute. That's, hey, that's below the belt, isn't it? That's because of the age thing, isn't it? No, I'm telling the truth. I'm trying to make a point. That is brutal, but you're only little. I know. Right. I know. So I would have said over

six foot, no kids. And in putting those judgments, I'd have missed the absolute greatest love of my entire life. So I mean it as an inspiring thing to maybe people that are single, like loosen the shackles of your expectations, because love can come in five foot eight packages. Oh. Yeah. But yeah, I think in the same way you spoke about being able to communicate, apologize, be vulnerable, I could never do that. Vulnerability for me was crying when I was drunk or high. Yeah. It wasn't true vulnerability, which-

Now you just cry sober. Oh, I cry all the time now. Yeah. I'm a big crier. Big time, which is so crazy. Because when I was younger, I identified as like, unemotional, super strong people that cry a week, I sort of made myself a little mini version of my dad. And I thought I was really cool. Yeah, like inside. inside. That's probably more common than we would think people wearing that mask. You were probably wearing that mask. 100% Too. I guess it's unfortunately more expected in men. Yeah. Whereas for women, you're almost expected to be emotional and I

was just stone cold. Yeah. Not unless I was drunk. Yeah. And so yeah, figuring out how to communicate, talk, love, stay, argue, tiny bit, repair, raise kids together, all the things parenting brings up. I mean, it's just been wild, but I occasionally will just have happy tears. I'll look around and I'll see you and the kiddies rocket. And I can't believe that me, this grand old mess who ruined their entire life, hurt myself so much, was in debt, broken relationships, no career to speak of, has ended up in part of this beautiful family.

Like I feel very, very lucky. I think you should be proud though. Like it's probably for a different episode, but we haven't had this relationship that's just been all roses from day one. We nearly broke up. That's definitely. Yeah, that's another one.

You're trying to get me back for the five for eight. Yeah, I am. Cause you fancy someone else, but whatever. It's an old pattern. I know. Yeah, but that's why you should be proud, right? Like, cause as a late bloomer, you, that would have been it. That would have been the end of what that would have been lucky number 11. I dealt with the same pattern I'd always dealt with, which was leaving and falling in love with someone else and leaving. But

I dealt with it differently. And we will speak about that on another episode. The third area where I've been a late bloomer is just like adulting. I now own a house at 39. Before owning a house, I've rented, I've been evicted. When we met, I was struggling to pay £300 a month rent. And my life has always been like that. I've never had security at home. I've always had a terrible credit rating. Not now. It's excellent now. All in love with a bank manager. I laugh about it, but

honestly, the weight of being in debt and not having a house, not having a phone that connects, it only connects to wifi, not having a passport. I didn't have a passport for two years. Just all those things that felt insurmountable to me at the time, but just made me feel like such a terrible human being. Cause what adult doesn't have a passport, what adult doesn't have their own house? Like I just felt so ashamed and I hated myself so much for it. They're all things you take for granted, right? Your bills being paid by direct debit, you just having a passport until you haven't.

And I can't relate, but I can imagine that that can be quite jolting. Oh, it's so jolting. I've sat in a flat before where I haven't been able to pay the electricity bill. Had my electricity box ripped out and replaced with a pay as you go meter. Yeah. Haven't been able to go and pay it at the shop. So I've just sat in the pitch black in a flat. Um, and that happened to me a lot.

That was when I was about 30. And you just feel on the edge. You feel on the edge of not wanting to be here anymore. Probably restricts you being able to do other stuff. You can't flourish in other areas of your life, like professionally, if you're worrying about the lights being. My biggest problem was that that day is, can I find a coffee shop to connect to wifi to tell my friend I'm sat in the dark?

So maybe she'll bring five pounds so I can turn the lights on. And that's crazy. That's, that's 10 years ago. Yeah. That was where I was 10 years ago. Now 10 years is not that long, but it's, it's lifetimes ago for me. And I just think of anyone in that situation without a passport, without their phone connected, unable to pay electricity, unable to pay rent, getting

evicted, your greatest hope in that moment is just to not be in debt anymore. To have the lights on. That's your greatest dream. So I wouldn't even dreamt of meeting you, owning a house, having a music career. You don't even allow yourself to dream. Yeah. Cause you just need to get 10 pounds to top up the electricity meter. Yeah.

So it steals hope. It steals love. It steals joy. Yeah. So it steals hope, it steals love, it steals joy. And it really, really messes with your mental health because the shame and torture of being in that situation with no one to help had no one to call. Because I was still sort of going out partying and always find a way a credit card or a mate would pay.

So I'd go out drinking and then come back to a blackout flat. Okay. would pay. So I'd go out drinking and then come back to a blackout flat. Okay, so out of those three things then, like what is it? What is it about those situations that you learn that you otherwise wouldn't? To keep trying. That resilience is an unbelievable skill. So to have 10 failed relationships and to try again with you and it be amazing to have all the failed music careers to try again. Keep trying. But it isn't only trying. It's you have to try again whilst doing something different. So I was in therapy with you, working on all the reasons why I normally leave a relationship. Also my issues with music and why I might self-destruct it and not work really hard.

So yeah, I think failure teaches you to be resilient, that you have to keep trying, that you really want something to go back and look for love or a career shows you that you really, really, really want it if you're willing to fail again. And I think that's probably quite a nice moment to sum up probably both conversations in being late bloomers. You know, we've both shared what it's meant for us and our personal circumstances. But one thing that I really think about through all of them is it takes action, right? Like none of it just happens.

So whether it be professionally, whether it be getting more functional, whether it be, whether it be getting more functional, whether it be being more emotional and taking that first step to therapy. There's things that are in your control of taking that first step, I guess. Yeah, so I think it's understanding your past, however messy, does not define your future. Yeah. Your actions do. So wherever you are, however low you are, you are capable of the happiest life, relationship, job, wildest dreams coming true,

if you are willing to do the brutal hard work of changing your actions, which might look like going to therapy, it might look like getting sober. Yeah. And also the fact that success isn't linear. I always had this sense of I've missed the boat. It's too late.

Even if I start now in love or career or finances, I'm so far behind. What's the point? Yeah. But when you start later, you can be supercharged. And you've got stuff to say, right? You learn from all of this. It's not wasted. You just know how not to do it.

You've got so much to say. So I think it's about understanding. It isn't linear and you could start today. You could start really late and you could far out succeed what you might have done when you were younger or somebody else on a more linear path. Yeah. That truly the sky's the limit and it comes down to are you going to try again? Are you going to have hope and are you going to make a change?

So on that note, I think we'll leave it there. Hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you did, go and leave us a review wherever you listen. If you didn't, don't bother. Just skip through. Just move on. Like and follow and all that jazz and thank you so much. We'll see you next week.