LATE BLOOMERS - NEUROTYPICAL NONSENSE: Unmasking the madness of normal

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Here’s our website for 20% Loop EarPlugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/pages/lp-adhdlove What even is normal? In this hilarious and heartfelt episode, Rox and Rich dive into the absurd, confusing, and often unspoken rules of neurotypical behaviour. They unpack why some people relax by drinking in loud bars, the strange obsession with small talk, and the exhausting pressure to follow a rigid life roadmap. Rich questions the morality assigned to messiness, and Rox explains why “fitting in” always came at the cost of authenticity. They break down social hierarchies, unspoken rules, and why direct communication often feels like rebellion. If you’ve ever felt like you missed the memo on how to be “normal,” this episode will make you feel seen — and probably make you laugh.

We're going to talk about some of the strange things we've witnessed Neuropicals doing. They're very weird, aren't they? Yeah. I think they're suffering from neurotypical brain disorder. NBD. This is late blooms, where we are getting our lives together. And also just laughing at the ridiculousness of being alive eventually.

So shall I start then? I feel like we need to explain. Well, yeah. I feel like we should say that we're not being mean. No, I'm not wanting to be mean, but I am just going to want to highlight some things that actually, if you flip it around, the world says the neurodivergent person

is like strange for doing it this way. But certainly for the things I'm going to talk about, it makes sense, in my mind anyway. I mean, not only would they maybe see us as strong. Yeah. Yeah. And you just actually proved them all right just then in that one word, strong. But we also, when we have our lovely medical labels, the dudes that wrote the DSM call us disordered.

Now, sometimes I'll hold my hand up to say, I'm not the most orderly. There might be an element of disorder coursing through my brain. And however, there's some things that I think are actually... Sorry, I've got distracted by you saying DSM. Do you remember that book that we read or that we were listening to about how, when they were talking about ADHD and how they were going to label symptoms in the DSM, it was like a group of like 10 men or something talking around a table. And one of them was like, oh no, that can't be a symptom because I do that.

I was like, I looked at you, I was like, what? It is so funny that, you know, ADHD, which we have spent most of our life in recent years, talking about and living and it's changed my life knowing that I have it, was just invented. You don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole because like everything in life is invented. But like the DSM was invented by a group of dudes putting together what they thought was a list of symptoms that aren't real. Like, you could go radical all the other way and just be like, well, it's not a disorder. It's just a... Oh, man, let's not go there.

Let's just talk about the strange things. I feel like... Do you know what you mean? That, wow. I feel like we're kind of proving the point that maybe we are a bit strong. But, so you want to go first then. So tell me some things about the neurotypical world that don't make sense to you. So first one, the notion of unwinding.

So like them saying, should we go and unwind, and they'll pick the loudest, brightest bar, let's say, and sensory nightmare with high stimulation everywhere to unwind. It's so true. It's so true. Like that is the wind-up place. Lights, bright. Like a corkscrew.

Music, loud. They're shouting. You're trying to lip read. You're at a busy bar getting pushed. like it sounds like a nightmare i think what it really means is just drinking alcohol right or maybe not maybe they do just chat because they could drink alcohol at home it's like if they've done a really busy day at work you know if you're like in london and at half four on friday everyone spilling out of the bar oh man when we go to london all i want to do is come home and and and lie

and not even speak to you like just sit on the sofa in silence that is unwinding thing is though you used to probably unwind every night in bars after work and that was alcohol though for me that was like drinking to relax so are we saying that all neurotypical people are like functioning alcoholics no i don't no i think there is some people that do like relish the thought of going to a loud noisy bright bar and it being relaxing oh no what's relaxing for you then Tell them where they're getting it wrong. Sitting down. Or pottering around in the garden.

Oh, yeah. Being at one with the weeds. You know? I last night decided to, there's a path in our garden that I want to do decking on. And it's a large area. And I can now not think of anything better than buying the deckboards YouTube video in it,

getting it all lovely, painting it. Like, so relaxing. beautiful. I love that. I'm going to have a new deck in and I haven't got to do anything. Yeah. You always get nervous though when I take on a new thing because you're like, oh, is it going to be all right? Yeah, I like high level. I proved that I can do it with the upholstery, didn't I? You did upholster the bench. All right, go on. Give us another one. What doesn't make sense? The second one is like really strikes a nerve with me.

it's like this this somehow that direct communication is is rude which it like it baffles me right so they speak in riddles with vagueness expect people to pick up on social cues and read between the lines whereas if you just say what it is that's on your mind it can be it can be rude Like, what, why play this game of charades and just expect people to know how you're feeling whether you're going to want to do that? Like, what? What? It's so, when you say it like that, it's so logical. Like, don't do the dance, the read between the lines, the hints, the politeness, just say the thing.

but even I, I think you're coming at this from an autistic-ish perspective because sometimes I hear you speaking and I'm like, oh my God, it's so rude. Obviously, I'm like, Miss RSD, people pleaser, 2025. But I can fall into that trap of thinking direct is rude, but direct is so much better for everyone involved. It's also more honest. Yeah. Like we're running around.

Everyone's lying to each other. You're okay, yeah, I'm fine. Well, you're obviously not. So say it. Or do you want to go there? Like, just no, I don't want to go there. Thank you. The idea is horrific.

There's this, the thing where you should lie and that be more polite blows my mind. What, because lying's wrong. Yeah. It's so interesting. It's like the different codes of what's moral. Is it more moral to be polite or more moral to tell the truth? But saying that, right, I'm also not stupid. So, like, if someone asks me how do I look and they look horrendous,

I'm not going to be like, you shouldn't leave the house, you look horrific. Like, I am going to be tactful, but I'm also not going to say you look great. I'll be like my so you're striking a fine balance then you're bringing in your own rules of tact I think if it's like directly overtly insulting someone you just

I still don't think you should lie but like you just have to be more tactful yeah like I would say do you like it oh yeah and that's the main thing like I wouldn't like looking like that

but if you do then everyone's a winner. And that would be considered really rude. Christmas presents is a big one when there's like, oh, thank you so much. I absolutely love it. You are expected to say that and lie, even if it's not true. Well, I still wouldn't lie. I wouldn't say that I love it. I would just thank them for the present. Wow. It's a good skill. I like this direct communication. But I would, I would withhold that I hate it, but I would thank them for their thought. You know?

Concification according to Richard Pink. Okay, throw us another one. Social hierarchy. So I am like blind to who would be perceived more important or you can't say that to them or anything like I, I, everyone is the same as me. I will ask questions when I would be expected to know the answer because if I don't know, I would ask, like, if somebody is rude to me, I would be confrontational, I don't care who they.

Like, I don't, do you know what I mean? I don't differentiate. Yeah, there's a weird, it is, yeah, social hierarchy where somebody with power, you should change your behaviour towards them. So, like, if you met the waitress at a restaurant versus the owner, that you would be different in something.

way. I completely agree. I think we're agreeing on some of these wonky, neurotypical world rules. Everyone's just who they are. And actually power doesn't mean, like, just because you've got money or success doesn't mean anything. Like who you are as a person is how you should be. Yeah. Not judged, but kind of met and treated. But it's just not like that. I really suffer with that in like the music industry. There's always people with like power and I expect. you to like kiss there. I was just like, no. Yeah.

No, thank you. And then finally for me, and I need to, because even you said that I come across rude when I try and verbalise this, and I don't mean to, but like small talk. So let me be clear. If I am getting on a call with someone on a Monday morning, I hope that you've had a nice weekend, but I don't need or want to hear about it. Like I hope that you're well and that you're happy and that you had loads of fun. But I don't want to know. I don't want to know. So I think, and I don't know, but I think it's there to like calm everyone down and just like

make everyone feel connected before you get into like the conversation or the conversation or the work meeting. Okay, so I hear that, but I don't want to feel connected. And my, my argument with that would be like, it just lacks efficiency. We all know why we're on this call. Yeah. It's to get an update on podcast recording or Dubby or what's, what's on the agenda for this week. That is why we're all on the call. Otherwise, I would be phoning these people in my spare time to find out about their lives. So let's talk about why we're on this call. It's so funny. Just you talking about our Monday calls, because we go on, have you had a

nice weekend? Oh, yeah. What did you get up to? And the chatter starts and you'll go, I'm ready to start the call now. That's enough small talk now. You don't know what they're like when you're not on it. There's no, there's nothing. We all come on the call. I'm like, right, let's go. I don't like small talk either. I hate small talk, but I have more of a capacity to tolerate it. probably because of desperation to be like. I think it's more that you're more of a people pleaser than me. Yeah.

No, I don't want to do small talk. It's very awkward. What happens to me is like, I'm like, when does this stop? How do I transition from small talk to what we're actually here for? And if I didn't, right, go right, I'm ready to start now. How does that transition happen? How long does it go on for?

Because you like, you said it. and you like laughed because it's a bit awkward, it's a bit blunt, it's a bit like, right, let's stop talking about everyone's social life. We're here to talk about work. Let's do that. If I didn't do that, which I can objectively see. Like that can be quite a strange thing to hear or quite blunt, quite direct, maybe even quite rude.

If I didn't do that, how much time would be wasted talking about what gig they went to or whatever? Do I mean? They had a dentist appointment. It's so strange. It's like there's this unwritten rule of conversation that you're all in. We'll all do the small talk until... It gets awkwardly silent and then you start, like what?

Someone goes, oh, right then, guys, should we get on with it? But whose responsibility is that, oh, no, it's too much. And how much longer would it take? Yeah. Just get to the point. People should be thanking me for the extra five minutes every Monday that I give them. You're welcome. feels like do you know what I mean like

feels like a perfect time to get to the point are you ready for the most epic discount and brand deal of all time yeah I don't think we could have a better sponsor for this podcast than the amazing loop earplugs

because we actually use them and wear them recently we went to a music festival because I was performing and you struggle a bit of music festivals big time all the people people, the noise. Yeah, hugely struggle. And it's like rock and metal music, so it's loud. So I had my trusted loop earplugs, the experience range, which are basically made for festivals. You used those and how did you find it? It was dreamy. I could still hear, but it dumbed it down

enough that I was so comfortable. I took, I thought it was fine and I took them out one point. I was like, noop, they're going back in. Yeah. So that's it. You can go to a music festival with Loop Earplugs experience. They also have the quiet range for taking naps and studying and they also have the engage range. If you do want to hear what people are saying in a conversation, that's not for you. You can actually get 20% off via our own website with Loop. The link will be in the show notes and it will also be in the link in bio. Can't recommend them enough and we really hope that you enjoy them. So that's my four weird things about the neurotypical world that we live in over to you i mean i could have 34 mm-hmm i haven't got time for that no so i'm gonna just

have so so what i'm expecting now you've said that is the four that you've got to be brilliant oh dear don't put pressure sorry i'm only taking they can be rubbish number one is the roadmap to life and success that everybody just follows and it's never spoken about like are you talking about

like capitalism and jobs and stuff like what are you? Kind of but it's also personal life it's like school college maybe uni job die job work a bit

meet someone get married have a kid promote, buy a house, another kid, another promote, retire. Guy. Yeah, it's like this one-way route to the perfect life, that everyone follows. And no one ever sort of sits you down when you're young and says this is the route to happiness and a fulfilling life. you sort of have to learn it by sort of looking around at others and what is the group doing. It's like this big exercise in like group think where you go to school, you go to uni, get your graduate job, you're then looking for someone to marry, you're going to have a kid with like. And that's it.

And that's a successful life. And if you stray outside of that, which by the way, loads of ADHD is are going to because we're often job off. hoppers, jack-of-all-trades, trying different things, relationship hoppers. We, like, fall outside of that success timeline. And then we're seen as somehow unsuccessful or, like, not living life in the correct way. It's a really good point. I was living life in the correct way for 20 years, and I've jumped out of it. I'm loads happier.

That's so, you actually were. You followed exactly what you were meant to do. yeah got married had kids had the same job for 20 years yeah what like why did you like why was unhappy yeah so there's a very there's a difference between what you should do and what's going to make you happy isn't there so I'm wondering whether that timeline does actually make a lot of people happy I don't know I doubt I doubt it I doubt that's where they get their happiness from is following the because everything's built for it right even the educational system is to go and how to go and get a job and what you need to learn to yeah i don't know it's above my level of

intellect it's weird though isn't it i know what you mean though and i also and i can really see why the ADHD mind will struggle in in that expectation and then the problem is you can feel like such a failure on an inherent level because you've missed every milestone you were meant to achieve, staying in a job, working long term, get married by a house, you wake up in your mid-30s it just feel awful, like you felt like you're a bad adult but you've got so much time left

and actually trying different things, quitting things, working on multiple things. There's so much joy and learning and success that can come, but no one ever talks about it. It's okay to find success in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. If there's still breath in the old lungs, there's fun things to be done. That's what I say. I agree. Okay. My second one, you ready? Adding a moral value to things that aren't moral at all. What do you mean? Like cleaning and being organised, losing things, are very often find that if you, if you aren't someone that

cleans on a daily basis, your house or yourself, where you're teeth, and you lose things, there's this sense that you're a bad person, like there's a moral implication that you are disgusting, bad, lazy, untrustworthy. But I don't think. cleaning is anything to do with morality. It's like moral neutral. Like morals are to do with how you treat people, how you live, your core values. It's so much deeper than these outside shows of strange perfectionism and compliance. I'm obviously very biased because I'm really messy. Yeah, I don't, I agree. that there shouldn't be a moral

value attached to them but I also do agree that it's not necessarily a good thing as in it's not bad the person isn't bad but it's something that I feel like they would be happier if they were living in a cleaner environment and could do it so it's like it's more of a shame rather than they're a bad person

it's certainly not good I don't know I'm definitely not saying it's goods, it makes you a good person to live in mess. I'm just saying it doesn't make you a bad person. Of course not. Absolutely. Everyone deserves to live in a clean environment and to be able to shower and take care of themselves and to find their things. Yeah. But as we know, some people don't have the support to do that and don't have the tools to do that or the mind to do that. And to write them off as somehow lazy or disgusting or bads.

Yeah. It's just... Lazy's a big one. It just feels so horrible. Yeah. And it feels incredibly unfair. I kind of see it in simple terms. It's like someone with glasses that can you read that?

No, just lazy, disgusting. I try hard. I can't try it. That would be problematic, yeah. And it's almost kind of worn as a, I feel it anyway, against me, people that don't lose things or are really clean. It's a badge of sort of moral superiority. Yeah.

And I don't think it needs to be there. I'm very jealous of you. I am envious. I would love to be able to do that, but I can't. But I also don't need to be shamed for it. Thank you very much. I agree. I would also love you to love it and be loads better at it as well.

But you're not, and I accept that. I'm a bit better than I was. Bit better, yeah. Listen, I'm never going to be the trad wife of your dreams. I'm sorry. I know. That's not what. that's you know that's not what i'm suggesting i'm pulling your leg but i make an effort and it's

never going to be great yeah but it can be all right it can be yeah but it's like waves i feel like i'm just thinking about the clothes above the bed like it definitely waves i cleaned them yesterday yeah i know but they were there for a month oh no maybe it is moral value then to my We're again, pal. Right, on to the next one. Go on. Oh, this is a big one. Oh.

Being realistic. What? So you think it's strange that people are realistic? Yeah. Okay. So I reckon I'm quite realistic. You are. You are.

So I'm obviously coming from ADHD. You're coming from autistic-ish. There's some overlap, but there's some differences. And obviously, all neurodivergent people are not a moment. monolith. We're all different and we bring different experiences and that's what we're doing right now with those two wonky brains. So being realistic, I definitely think this is something that ADHD is do so well is not being realistic. Okay. Like we are the kings and queens of being delulu and delusionality. Maybe it's a word. I carry on you. I'm going to go with it. You're in a

I'm high on the delusionality scale. Yeah. It's what gets things done. Now, my whole life, I was the dreamer, the quitter, the loser, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I was just in preparation for my good phase, the success phase, which can come a bit later when you've got ADHD, hence late bloomers. But being delusional, my music career at 40 feels. by delusion. Start in the podcast.

Okay, so I get what you mean. So, yeah, so maybe it's like the being really realistic can sometimes create like limiting beliefs. Yeah, like that that won't happen for you or on a really simple scale

for me, you can't be a music artist at 40. If you haven't made it by 25 it's not going to work. Delusional, I'm going to go and try it. Yeah. Or you can't make an app when you have no experience in app development and nobody's going to want a body doubling app anyway because what is that? Well, delusional. I think we can. And then we did. So it's this like strange confidence

in your own delusions that nobody else seems to be able to have. Like, I'm so unconfident about myself in so many areas, my ability to be organized, take care of myself, I conduct myself well in social environments, be clean, clean my teeth twice a day, no confidence. Come up with a creative idea that I think will connect with people. I will like bet my life on it. So I completely agree with you that, you know, nothing that we've achieved together would have happened if you were realistic

or had any form of limiting belief. I suppose the only caveat I would add is that you do need to, it does require you to have to ride the waves of when things don't, like when you have these ideas, because there's more ideas that don't come to fruition than do. Out of 100 ideas, maybe three work, but my delusional belief in them is always the same. And you think they're all going to work, yeah.

Oh, 100%. But you have to. Yeah. And it's the same when I used to be a songwriter. I went in for five years every day and wrote a song and believed it was a hit. You said it after every session you were live, I've just written a hit every day. Now, out of 500 songs, three became top 10 hit records. But I truly believe you need to have that.

So I sometimes think that there is a limiting belief in a neurotypical world. It's also something that you relate to, you know, when something's impossible. Is it? Yeah. I love that. And then my final one, and I love this one, it sometimes feels like in neurodipical world, fitting in is more important than being yourself. That's huge. I like that one.

Yeah. Kind of like assimilating to the norm, the status quo, what you're meant to be doing, what your peer group is doing. And you just kind of copy. and I understand that we're pack animals and we need to have our community so that's probably why that happens for kind of safety but sometimes it can come

at such a great cost and I would imagine the cost is being authentic isn't it? Yeah, and I don't want to use being authentic as a moral value either as they can sometimes use with cleaning. It's a shame

because who are you really? Do you really love that? Do you really believe that? Do you really want to do that? Is that how you want your hair to look? It's such an amazing thing to go on a journey of like figuring out who you are in all your like wonky weirdness. And I've seen that with you. You've helped me across the board in so many things.

And loads of our listeners will know loads of those things. But I feel one area I've helped you is like helping you be more you. Yeah. Stay home. be really direct cover yourself in tats grow your hair longer like since i've known you the last few years i've seen this other person come out yeah which is like this really unique mold rather than being you were sort of like the middle-aged dad drinking dad middle-aged drinking with the buzz cut with the buzz cut you fitted into sort of a neat mold that thousands of other

people fitted into but now i feel like there's only one of you big time there is only room for one of me so that's some of our thoughts on the reality of the weird neurotypical world we would love to hear some of yours what's some things that you find strange or odd and what are some things about your neurodivergence

that you think just make sense if you've enjoyed today please like subscribe share comment do all of those things if you don't just carry on just keep moving we'll see you next week