LATE BLOOMERS - RELATIONSHIP REHAB: The 5 rules that transformed our relationship

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rox and Rich dive into the real work of building healthy, long-lasting love — the kind nobody taught us how to do. Whether you're anxiously attached, avoidant, or just exhausted from repeating the same patterns, this episode breaks down the 5 essential rules that transformed their relationship (and could transform yours too). You'll learn: Don’t use extreme communication — how silent treatment or shouting damages safety. Respect your partner’s nervous system — why their reactions aren’t always about you. Remember your childhoods — how the past shows up in your present. Stay connected — why little moments of intimacy matter. Celebrate the ordinary — because healthy love is built in the boring bits. This is your no-BS guide to unlearning toxic patterns, healing your attachment style, and finding love that actually lasts.

Today we are talking about the relationship rules. It is going to be five rules to transform your relationship and get you living as happy as Larry, whoever Larry is. And don't worry, we're obviously the experts in this. I've got two divorces. You've got like 10 relationships so far? There are thereabouts broken relationships. So I'm lucky number 11, that age old saying lucky number 11. You are. But don't worry, the fact that we messed it up so badly for so much of our lives and now we're in quite a happy relationship shows that we had to learn it the hard way and that's what we're going to be sharing with you today.

Welcome to Late Bloomers. Where we and our... Oh, what are we doing? We're getting our lives and our relationships together. Eventually. Oh my lord, it's the relationship rule. So I think first of all, it's just very important to say. Well we're not experts. We're not experts on anything that we talk about. We're experts in messing up relationships. Like you were twice divorced by what age?

Wow, 32. Like one divorce at 32 would be pretty good going. You had cranked up two. I know. So expert in getting it wrong. Me, we say 10. I don't actually know really. I was in relationships from like 16 to 34 back to back. I'm not talking about like little two month when you're like a teenager and stuff. You had 10 serious one-year relationships. They did tend to last one year, yeah.

Yeah. And then they'd fall apart. Why always one year? Mine were always seven years as well. Both of my divorces were after seven years. Why is it the amount of time? For me, one year, by one year, all of the honeymoon stage was over. So all of that excitement was gone and the real problems start to set in by one year. But that's when it turns real, right? The real problems. Or the real relationship, depends which way you look at it.

But I never made it through the honeymoon. But then we've got all these issues. Mr. Divorce over here, Miss, one bam thank you ma'am, on to the next. But we've been together like five years. Is it five years now? It is, yeah. Two years left.

But we're really happy. Yes. Probably disgustingly happy. Cyr. Cringe happy, isn't it? Oh, it's so cringe. Probably disgustingly happy. Seer. Cringe happy, isn't it? Oh, it's so cringe. Yeah, seer.

My step kid, your eldest kid just is like, you guys are just gross and sickeningly in love. So we have kind of figured it out in a way. I think so. How we explain that, I suppose that's what we're going to give a go today. We're going to give it a go. So we've tried to look at all the things that we got wrong before and tried to look at some of the stuff we're doing slightly better on now and break it down into five rules. What we're going to do is just talk through each rule and just

have a laugh about where we used to get it wrong, where we might still get it wrong and how we're trying to do a bit better in the hope that it might help our amazing late bloomers who are listening do the same thing. Okay. So obviously there's five points. It's usually three with you, so this is obviously a big topic for there to be five. The first one we've got, never raise your voice at someone you love. So how did you get this wrong? I can imagine actually, wow. I bet you were quite fiery back in the day, weren't you? Yeah, I used to have screaming rows with people, especially drunk, just drunk arguments, screaming because I've seen someone liking pictures on Instagram.

Oh really? Oh yeah, screaming because someone's come home late, they're screaming at me because I've come home late, just nightmare. And I never realised anything was wrong with screaming or shouting at your partner because well you don't do you? They don't teach this stuff in schools. They don't teach you how to have a really happy relationship. So yeah, I was a big screamer, not in a good way. I think and we should include it in this one, but mine wasn't so much screaming. Mine

was the opposite. I would just be silent. Do you know what I mean? Like sulky, silent, not say a word. We haven't got that. So hold on. Maybe it's never raise your voice or give the silent treatment. Because that's the extremes of communication, isn't it? Of course. So already we're changing rule one, you've got to be flexible in relationships. Yeah. Well, if I gave you the silent treatment, you wouldn't cope very well, I don't think. It's a big thing for you, isn't it?

Well, I have been given a silent treatment by people. Exactly. It sends me straight into therapy. Yeah. I can't cope. So yeah, rule one is actually don't use extreme forms of communication, which is either shouting or silent treatment. I think that shouting at someone just shows that you're not respecting them. It's so disrespectful to scream at someone. And you're never ever going to convince someone of your point by screaming at them.

It's hard though sometimes. Obviously not. But you know, most of the time we're really happy we have a laugh. But like, you know, it's easy to say don't shout. When a human gets to the point that they want to shout, they're feeling really strong emotions. I'm thinking about when we first moved in here, when we had the plumbers coming around the next day and you wanted to change the bath. Like if there was going to be a point I was going to shout and get angry, it would have been then. So it does, although it might be easy to say don't shout and don't scream, in the moment

you have to make that conscious decision. Oh yeah, I think it means walking away, taking a break. You have to work really hard not to shout and also not to do silent treatment. I think it's the communication part. So saying like, I'm about to lose my shit. I need to walk away or I'm finding it really, I need some space away from you, but I'm not giving silent treatment. It's to make sure, because actually those two things, screaming at someone and silent treatment, that can come under an abusive relationship. So you're just making sure it never ever goes into abusive territory. You feel the normal human emotion, but you

put words to it. And we obviously annoy each other. Yeah. And we have moments, but it never, I don't think we've ever shouted or done silent treatment. Well, I think the one thing you can pretty much guarantee, if you've got to a point where you're like shouting, you're going to regret whatever you say, aren't you? It's not going to be like considered. It's not going to be calm. There'll be apologies to come later. Cause you know, so it just, it just never helps. So what, what you obviously can't do and what don't shout in, what not shouting means isn't all be like lovely and kind and stuff like that.

It's just don't shout. Like I can say you've really annoyed me. Oh my gosh. I'm not really in a position where I can chat about this right now, but I need to go and calm down and then can we have a conversation? Here's the thing though, and this is why these rules only work when both people are working hard for the relationship. If I go back to thinking at times, let's say where I shouted at someone in the past, I

would be feeling like I wasn't being listened to. So very often, if you're an adult and you're screaming at someone, it's probably because you don't feel like they're listening, so you're raising your voice. So you also need to make sure in order to stop someone shouting, you are really, really listening when they're talking to you. So it takes time to get used to that, doesn't it? It definitely does. And actually, I think that's quite a good segue into the second one, because it's almost linked. It is. Rule number two. Oh my God, it's so good. Respect your partner's nervous system.

When I was having these 10 relationships before, I didn't even know what nervous system was. We were just together. I felt something. I'm crying. You're shouting. I'm drinking. You're in this roller coaster without any understanding. But with you, I have learned that we are so different when something's going on. Big time. And I think loads of people will be. So for me, I cry a lot and I need cuddles and I need reassurance. If we're having any kind of disagreement or I'm upset, I need to just cry on your shoulder.

And that's exactly the opposite of what I want, isn't it? You need to go and have 10 minutes in the room alone. And it's so mad because when you don't know that about each other, if I'm trying to get comforted by you and you're pulling away, it's going to make it way worse. And it's actually going to make the argument worse. So it's also knowing who's going through what in each moment, because I have to make sure that I'm not trying to get cuddled or comforted when you're triggered and you've lost the plot a bit and just need to go to the bedroom.

Yeah. And I wonder if, again, not an expert expert but I wonder if it's something to just do with the way our brains are because I'm quite logical so like when I'm activated or feel something strongly I need to go and get everything correct in my head before I can have a conversation about it. It needs to all make sense I need to know everything that's happened why I feel like it and then I can have a conversation about it. It needs to all make sense. I need to know everything that's happened, why I feel like it, and then I can have a conversation with you. You're not really interested in that.

You just want to cuddle and to know that you're like safe and nobody's going to shower you or leave or whatever. Like, so we're very different needs. I can't, I'm obsessed with the details, either in conflict or in business or whatever. I need to know everything. That's so interesting, isn't it? So I guess it's about knowing what your partner needs. I hate the word triggered, but when people are upset, angry, activated, whatever word

you want to use when we're having a bit of a difficult human day to understand what your partner needs and help them to get there. So often in a row, I just want my needs met. I want to shout and scream and cry and be cuddled. You want to logic it through, explain why I'm wrong and go and sit in the bedroom. Those two people are never going to get through. And there's so much kindness. Like it's probably some of our kindest moments and most loving moments happen when you will just give me a cuddle and I'll start crying.

Or I'll say, bubby, I can tell you are well-stressed, go and have 10 minutes in the bedroom. And to not feel, either of us feel defensive about that. It's also so important. These rules, it's so important to know it has to be coming from a good place, from both partners. Because I could be like, Bubby, you seem a bit triggered by something. So do you want to go in the bedroom? Cause you can't.

There would be a way to say the same words, but to be passive aggressive. You to me, like, do you just need to have a cry so we can get through this? The person helping, like you need to really care. You need to show the person, I care more about you than I do about this argument. Yeah, which is always the case. Which is always the case. You're on the same team. But even just having that combo with your partner about what do you need when we start arguing. And also, you know, it made me think when you said

it's sometimes some of our most loving moments is in conflict. Other thing, caveat to put on these points, you'll get it wrong, like we still get it wrong. And I think that's fine. That's human. Knowing what we should do and doing it are two different things. But at least knowing what you should do enables you to recognise when you get it wrong. And then you can say sorry.

Yeah. is also important. Okay, so number three, remember your childhoods. And this is just one of the things they should teach you in school, that the triggers and patterns and fears that you grew up with, the relationship you saw, how your parents argued, how they treated you. You are bringing all of that into your relationship. And a lot of the time, we won't even be aware that we're doing it. It's like a subconscious pattern. And it's not as simple as going,

like, my dad used to scream and shout. So therefore I might do that. It's a deeper level. So for me, my dad used to scream and shout. So I am so scared of conflict. That's why I need to be cuddled and have a cry because I always think you're going to scream and shout. So it's really understanding the relationship pattern you saw growing up, both between your parents and from you to your parents. Well, and not necessarily always parents, right?

So I think about some of the historical conflict that we've had, and it will be stemmed from both of our pasts and both of our childhoods, but mine often came from like later on in childhood when I was like 17, 18 and lived and had toend for myself, bringing up a kid and all that sort of stuff, I can sometimes react quite negatively, when you're like, let's do this for Sia, let's do that for Sia, Sia needs this, and I agree with it all. But at the time, I'm like, my subconscious is like, well, I never got that, like, no, no, and I take more of a harder line. And that's where some of

our conflict has happened. And, you know, that's probably our biggest conflict is around parenting. It is. Parenting is the one area. And I think that's so amazing though, that you can see that. Because actually, it's not about being perfect. It's not about changing everything. It's just about having self-awareness with the other person, with kids, whatever it is. And like for me, although I had to be super independent and self-sufficient, I then subconsciously think, well, everyone should be like that. Why does everyone need handholding? But that's not right.

But that's what happens in me. Of course it was. It makes sense. And, you know, how did your parents argue when you were growing up? What did you see? So they didn't argue much. When they did, it was like World War Three. Like mum would lose her mind usually. And it would be just months and months and months of build up. I guess because I'm assuming I was a kid, I don't know, but I'm guessing because they didn't communicate the stuff that was on their minds regularly. So it all like built up to a crescendo of like an all out battle in the kitchen. So interesting. Go on. Tell me why that's interesting.

Because you don't do this anymore, but you used to not say anything about how you felt. It would all build up and I'd know something was wrong because you'd go and rage clean the kitchen. Oh, that's mum all day long. Like I love her to bits, but if mum was annoyed, you would hear the drawers close and the pans getting clanged together and she was emptying the dishwasher. You would just, so you could feel that atmosphere is like, well, mum's, but literally like in our old house, that's what you used to do. Isn't it just so interesting? So it's having those convos with your partner. So what do you do when you're upset with your

partner? What do you do? No shame, no blame. Where might it come from? How could you do a bit better? And it took us a while to get you out of rage cleaning. And even now it's hard for you to come and say, guys, I'm tired or guys, this has upset me to me or see it. But you do so much better now with vocalizing. Of course it's hard. It's harder for both of us, right? Because I'll say, so it's really upset me or annoyed me or I'm feeling this way. I'm going to go and take some time away.

And that's what I want. So yeah, it was hard to communicate that rather than empty the dishwasher really loudly. So everyone knew that I was pissed off but didn't tell anyone. But when I do say that, that can be quite hard for you because you'll be like, I want to talk about it now and I want to cuddle you and make it all better immediately. And I'm like, no, I don't want to. I'm way better now though. Yeah, better immediately. And I'm like, no, I don't want to. I'm way better now though. Yeah, no, but now I'm like, okay. But your natural instinct.

Yeah, of course it is. However, I would way rather you tell me what's going on because I want to know you. I want to know what's happening so we can work on it together. The rage clean in the kitchen used to get me. Well, that was like almost silent treatment for you, wasn't it? It was like the vibes of the room. Like you're really sensitive to that. That'll be an ADHD thing. Well, also it's my childhood. So the one thing I can't stand, actually I'll ask you, what's like the one thing I can't deal with? Like not like silence, like just being ignored

and not spoken to. But when there's something happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I can tell you're stressed and I say you okay, and you go fine, and you rage clean the kitchen, it makes me feel insane. I cannot cope with it. I can't cope with an atmosphere in the house. Go back to my childhood, pretty much from when I was born to when I moved out, there was affairs happening in my house. There was lies, there were secrets, everything was kept away and

lied and everyone was having dinner around a family table. Pretending. Pretending. So to me, pretending everything's okay when it's not is my number one trigger. So that's why you would rage clean the kitchen. I would be like, we have to talk about what's going on. But when you understand that and you can just be kind to yourself, it changes the game and also, you know, in our early years, I would sometimes have little mini panics that you were cheating on me or

I was being betrayed. Obviously that's a massive echo from my past. But being able to share that in a vulnerable space. I hate the word vulnerable space, but like just a lovely safe. I know that you're not going to mock me, laugh at me, make me feel silly for asking. A couple of times I've been like, you came home late, are you with someone at work? And it's so crazy because I've had to, the vulnerable part of me, I've had to protect for so long. So to show that to someone is really difficult, but it's kind of where the magic happens. Definitely. And even, you know, fairly recently, we hired someone and you were like, I had a silly thought, I want to share it.

Oh yeah. And you were like, there's this person that we're going to be hiring. Like I had a thought that you might have an affair with her. And I'm like, well, thanks for sharing that. That's horrible. As in, I didn't believe it. I knew it wasn't logical, but it made me feel a bit anxious. So I was like, I'm just going to tell Rich and then have the comfort.

It's such a strange thing to share that stuff, but I love it. So remember your childhoods because they're here with us, wherever we are. Yeah, if we like it or not. No matter how much therapy you do, your childhood is staying with you. It is, baby. Oh, number four I just love. I think this is so important, it's to stay connected. Yeah, need to find a middle ground though with that don't you,

because like you want cuddles in bed and I get too hot and stuff like that so you have to negotiate what that means. Stay connected and also you have to compromise because yes I love to cuddle in bed but you get too hot. It's not me that naturally gets too hot. It's that you are the temperature of the sun when you get into the bed. Am I or are you just cold? I don't know which way it is. But I guess it's about, so often in long-term relationships, people talk about physical intimacy changing when you get into years and years. Yeah.

But actually, it kind of happens first with emotional intimacy and the small moments that you forget that being in love is so much more than those first few months of whatever feeling in the honeymoon. You're talking about naughty time. Yes, of course. It's way more than that. And it's to make sure that you don't only think about sex and you don't only think, oh, it's the kisses and the cuddles and the hand holding and the little head rubs. All of that stuff. And actually, when I look at my old relationships, that would always fade out. Like that sort of the physical

intimacy that isn't sex would always fade out. That's really strong with us, isn't it? Oh my God. Even when we had the dry spell when we moved house and we got a rocket. The dry spell, it's even got an era. I'm so glad that era is over, but like dry spell era, we never lost kissing, paddling, handholding the old smack on your bum. Like you have to stay connected and that means it's like the actions of people that are in love and are happy. Yeah, I think this one comes as a byproduct of the first three though, right? Because I think although yeah, you do need to make an effort to stay connected, I think it's pretty much impossible to do if emotionally you're not connected, don't respect each other, all that sort of stuff.

That's so true. Like if you're constantly having stuff brewing under the surface, holding resentments, never actually dealing with stuff, you're not going to want to be hand holding, kissing, cuddling. Why are you grabbing my hand? So you kind of, it's like you have to always have a clean slate. Always. Doesn't matter what you're dealing with, what you're going through. You have to get back to clean slate, happy as Larry.

Or else you miss out on like the best bits of a relationship. Yep. Big time. I agree. Oh my god. absolutely love it. Then rule number five, and by the way, there's like so much more that we could talk about. It was just trying to think what's the five things. This might not even be right. This is what we think. Oh, yes.

Do you know what I mean? It's probably wrong. Give it a go. But I thought this one was really important, which was just like celebrating the ordinary. There's so much in life about birthdays and Christmas and Valentine's Day where you go out for a big posh dinner and you buy presents. But my favourite moments with you will be waking up every morning and deciding who's going to get the coffee.

Oh, that's a funny moment every day. It's like we'll both have our eyes open. We're not going to talk about who's going to make the first move to suggest. But then when, let's say you say you're going to make it and I'm like, yes. And then you come back, you get in bed, we have a chat, we have a cuddle. Like it's the tiny moments. It's deciding what program we're going to watch and having a cuddle on the sofa. Picking what takeaway we're going to get that night after saying we're going to cook home cooked. It's like the basics is actually where all of the magic is. I've got a lot of time for picking TV programs to watch. But that's big for me. But that's like, that's like big for me, like doing that together and chatting

it through what do we fancy and then talking about that. We recently watched silo, I think. Oh, it's so good. If you haven't watched silo on Apple TV, this is not an ad. Yeah, I'm so sad. They should contact us. But even that, like just, you know, you wouldn't see that in a big romance movie, just two idiots in bed at nine o'clock watching a TV show. But like it's the win. It's like we've worked together and we found this TV program and now we're celebrating because we're enjoying it at the same time. I know I'm going off a bit on this TV program, but you know what I mean.

You are a bit, but it's okay. It's the tiny moments. Yeah. It's like the joy and love is built in the things that nobody ever talks about and ever celebrates. Yeah. So I intend to celebrate loads when you say after we've recorded this that you're going to go and pick up all of the poo from the garden from Rocket. I appreciate that so much.

Is that the trick to a happy relate? be the one to pick up the poo? I think so, yeah. Or share it. Oh, well, that's lovely. That's our five. We hope it's been helpful. Yeah, I hope so. It's helped us and like to reiterate, we have done it wrong in two different ways, really,

really, you know, badly. And you know, Rox's one year you lost interest moved on. I lived unhappily for a bit before the end of the relationships, and I wouldn't recommend either. Yeah, so you stayed unhappily in a long-term relationship, and I never committed to a long-term relationship. And both of those are different sides of the same coin. It's the inability to find daily joy and connection and peace in a long-term relationship. And I think that underscores it all. You know, a lot of these things that we've talked about

today just require good communication. Like without it, you just got no hope. That's the thing, because it also makes me think we can say all this, but if you were in a relationship with someone that was... I don't know the word toxic. If they were not a nice person, if they were toxic or narcissistic, whatever the buzzword is, not a healthy person, not someone working with you, doesn't matter how many rules you apply, it's not going to work unless that person went and did some long-term therapy. So it's also about knowing and being really realistic about the people that we're choosing

and whether our partner is on the same level as us with building a long-term future that is safe and connected. So also just like sorry to anyone that's listening that doesn't have that. Yeah, definitely. Well, we hope you find it helpful. If you have, leave us a review, like, share, do all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, please leave a review because I'm going to go and pick up poo now. Yeah, and if you haven't, just ignore, don't come back. See you next week, maybe. Bye.