LATE BLOOMERS - ROCK BOTTOM: Why your lowest moments can save your life

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

In this raw and honest episode, Rich and Rox take you to the nights they almost didn’t make it through — and how those exact moments became the catalyst for everything good that followed. Rich opens up about his secret gambling addiction, the £7,000 lost in 11 minutes, and the night he truly believed not being here was the only way out. Rox shares the story of a 3-day bender in Ibiza that wrecked a music video shoot, broke her relationship, and finally pushed her to walk into her first recovery meeting. They talk shame, addiction, second chances, and how the rock bottom moments — the ones where you hate yourself most — can actually lay the foundation for the life you never thought you could have. If you’re in it right now, if you’ve ever wondered if things can change… this episode is here to say: yes, they can. You’re not alone. And this might just be the beginning.

Welcome to the Late Bloomers podcast where we are getting our lives together, eventually. How does it feel saying lives? It's because you're not allowed to swear, isn't it? It's meant to be a swear word. It feels fine. I think the swear word is cooler. You'll grow into it. Let's get into it. So today we're going to be talking about the power of a rock bottom. What, so we're just going to talk about the worst points of our life? Yeah. That sounds fun.

Why are we talking about that? Because rock bottom can be an absolutely amazing foundation to build from. Yeah. Don't you think? Would you agree? I think so. I mean, I try not to think hugely about that point in my life, but actually when you say it like that, it was the catalyst. It needed to happen.

100%. It's very often someone's worst night of their lives, but that actually becomes the 24 hours that changes everything. And I think the key, even though this is going to be talking about our lowest moments ever, hopefully it won't be too depressing because within those stories, there's actually a lot of hope. Without going through that, we wouldn't have met each other, started all the ADHD stuff, I wouldn't be a step mum, we wouldn't have the app. Like crazy things have happened, right? Since... Definitely. My life is completely 180 since my rock bottom moment. So rather than keep people waiting, should we go into what our rock bottom moments are? Who wants to go first?

Oh God. Should we rock, paper, scissors? No, you go. No, I want to rock, paper, scissors. Okay, go on then. So are we calling on... On three. So not one, two, three, three, three. So don't show me what you're going to do, but one. No, I want to rock paper scissors. Okay, go on then. So are we calling on? On three. So not one, two, three, and then.

So don't show me what you're going to do, but one, two, call. Yeah. Okay. Two, call. So you're first. Scissors beats paper. So I've scissors beats. No, so you go first.

Oh, you want me to go first? Yeah. Right. All right. Well, let's start with lowering the tone then. So my addiction was gambling. I've sort of collected a few over the years, alcohol and gambling being the two main ones, but it was actually gambling that produced my rock bottom moment. I started my gambling journey by just having weekly football bets like most of the most men do I suppose in this country and that escalated to online slots on my mobile.

How old were you when you were doing just football bets and when did it change to your mobile? Oh forever. I was betting on football weekly for probably since I was 18. Okay. But it was only five a week. That got like a little bit more progressive because then it became like I couldn't watch football on the telly without having a bet on it.

So that was that started at five. I probably got to 50 quid per game and quite obsessional about what was going on. I could watch any football game, didn't care who was playing, didn't even care what country, you know, I was following some well weird random leagues in the middle of the night because there's always some stuff to follow. But the real like, the addiction came when I started spinning slots on my phone. Now I've always been sort of used slot machines in the pub and stuff, but having that instant access on my mobile phone, like linked to my bank account, is where it really started to just escalate.

And it started off by probably 50p a spin, which adds up by the way, like if you do that for a couple of hours, you could easily lose a couple of hundred quid. And that chasing like when you hit a feature or you've got a big win, it all became relative. So like all of a sudden winning 100 pounds didn't bring me the same level of like hit, I suppose, like that dopamine hit. Yeah. And leading on to the last, and this got progressive, leading on to the last time that I did it, I was spinning £90 a spin. I remember, and my bank account looked like a drug dealer's bank account. It was just ridiculous money going in and out by

the... I think my turnover was over a million pounds in the last year of gambling, just from money in and out. It wasn't real money and it was obviously a loss to fortune. But this night, it was two o'clock in the morning. My then wife and daughter were both asleep in bed upstairs. I was sitting there on the living room floor drinking cans of cider, probably strongbow, while spinning slots. I can explain it as cold sweats and desperation, but I couldn't stop. I would always consider myself fairly well disciplined in life, getting ready for things, turning up on time and stuff like that.

But this is the one thing that I genuinely felt I had no control over. Even though I knew logically I need to stop this, I couldn't. It was like somebody else had control of the button, my thumb that was pressing the button to spin the slots. Did you ever try and stop before that night? Did you had any success? No, I had tried but I had no success. So like every time I'd lost a large amount of money, you know, a couple of thousand here, I would probably sink to sleep in a cold sweat, very

tearful, needed to just shut my eyes and go to sleep just to escape reality and say, I've got to stop this. And then as soon as I woke up, I would pick the phone up and start spinning slots. Like it wasn't, it didn't feel like, it's weird to say, but it didn't feel like a conscious decision. It just happened. I just did it. And this particular night, I remember I lost about £7,000 in 11 minutes. And it was £1,000 deposits from my credit card because I didn't have any money left.

And the only thing that stopped me was that the bookmaker didn't allow me to deposit any more money, otherwise I would have just kept going until the credit cards were maxed out. And, you know, losing that amount of money. My honest thought at that time was almost past caring because I come to the conclusion, well, the only way out of this is probably to just not be alive anymore. And that was very real for me. So, had you had that thought before or was that on this night in particular? No, I'd had that thought before.

Because of gambling almost? Yeah. I'll just leave. I won't be here. I'll be like, this is a situation. I can't see how to practically get out of this situation. So like the only way out of it is to just not exist anymore. Did anybody know? No. And gambling for me is one of those ones that's sort of deadly because nobody does know. If you're an alcoholic, you can be... people know you're drunk, right? Because you're an absolute nought.

Oh yes, they do. But people wouldn't know. They thought I was obviously probably retracted and not emotionally there or not happy. But I would never admit to the reason why I wasn't happy, and it's because I was spinning all of my money away. How do you understand that now, obviously with the little one, what she would have been three at that point and seeing how close you are, how incredible you are now as a dad. How does that make you feel looking back to when she was three that you were genuinely considering tapping out? Both kids are the only reason that I'm here. I can quite confidently say that. If I wasn't

a dad, I definitely would have done something that meant I wasn't here anymore. So I've got them to thank for that. I've got them to thank for my life for a start. And actually thinking back to some of my behaviours as a parent, I'm pretty good with removing shame from myself nowadays. But that's one thing that is difficult to really put behind me because there were instances where I was driving my kids around and I was that hooked on it. I would be spinning slots whilst operating a vehicle whilst having my loved ones in the vehicle. like it was stuff that I am deeply, deeply ashamed of. And I'm at a stage now where I can look at myself as a good person that's done bad things rather than a bad person to the core.

At that time then, did you feel you were a bad person to the core? Oh, yeah, 100%. No doubt about it. Probably up until fairly recently. It's only recent years that I've moved through that, probably since sobriety and getting sober and doing therapy and stuff. When you say the kids were the only reason you're here,

was that an actual thought? Was it that logical? As in, I'm going to end it, but I can't because I've got kids. Yeah. Like I remember nights where, you know, youngest daughter was a baby. So I was getting up in the middle of the night, changing her nappy and spinning slots at the same time. And I was just thinking to myself, like, what, what are you doing? You're like, what sort of man are you to be doing this? And then the thoughts where I was alone and these thoughts crept in around this is too much of a problem for me to deal with, I need to not be here anymore. Then there was like the other voice

on my shoulder saying, well, you can't, you've got dad, you've got responsibilities. So like, I obviously have a lot of gratitude and over my life, but at that time, I just felt trapped because it was like, I have to be here. I don't want to be here. Almost it wasn't like, it didn't feel like a good thing. Like they were saving your life. It felt like, oh no, no, I've got kids. So I have to stay alive. Not being here felt like the good thing at the time. And having to remain here was definitely the bad thing. That was like, I've got to deal with this. Where do I even start?

Going back to that night, the rock bottom night, you're having those thoughts, really not wanting to be here. You're doing bets on a credit card. You've lost, was it 7,000? And somebody stopped you, that bookmaker, they never normally do. They let you gone off for years, but that night they did. That just feels incredibly lucky. Like something special happened because had you been allowed to keep going, it can get to a point with gambling where I think a lot of men, when you later went to some of the sort of gambling, anonymous meetings,

you had similar stories. Yeah, there was, I'd heard stories where people were... it was crazy stories, right? So for me, the bookmakers stopped me physically depositing any money. And I think if that had carried on, I'm not sure I would have seen the morning. There's other stories where some of these people had tried to tie a belt around their neck and the belt buckle snapped and stuff like that. It's just, yeah, it's crazy. Makes me sad, makes me scared thinking about you going through that so alone. I just, I

can't believe that nobody knew. Sorry. Do you know what I mean? You start crying. No, no, because it's sad because you were thinking about ending things and nobody knew. Yeah. Nobody would have. Nobody would have known, I suppose. And it was, it's really interesting you say nobody knew because my first GA Gambler's Anonymous meeting, the amount of crying that I did because I felt like I

was part of a community. You know, I was hearing all these people and all these stories doing the same thing and all of a sudden it was like, wow, I'm not just this one loser, horrific person. There's other people that face the same challenge. It was amazing. That's the power of those communities, any community, when you go through the same thing and you realise A, you're not alone, B, it's not your fault, and C, you hear stories of people who've got better. And the awesome thing is you're one of those people. How many years ago, is that seven years ago would have been that night?

How many years ago? Is that seven years ago would have been that night? Yeah, it would have been seven, seven, eight years ago. And that, and again, you know, you circle back to the start of the rock bottom moment. That is quite definitively my rock bottom moment and actually was the catalyst to change. I didn't go to a Gambler's Anonymous meeting, but I just knew something happened in me to know how close I was to ending it, to then go something's got to change. My solution, by the way, because I knew that I had to, obviously I told my wife about it and you know, that, that didn't go particularly well, but I downloaded a game, a mobile, a game on my mobile cause I needed something to do. It's called Clash of Clans. And I just,

I just went to town. I became addicted to Clash. I didn't spend any money on it. But I was just, I couldn't put it down. Now I don't play it, but I needed something. Isn't that funny? Yeah. They always say in, if you're stopping alcohol, you're very often pick up sweets. Yeah. People like that on loads of ways. I'd certainly did that.

Gobbling down the Haribo, but you found that dopamine hit and that game. You've got to do what you've got to do, haven't you? And I think there's no right way to save your own life from that rock bottom moment. You just have to grab whatever you can see. Yours was clash of clans. Yeah, I still remember it now. Trying to get my purple walls built and stuff. Big up clash of clans.

Yeah, big time. If you could go back to that moment on the living room floor, seven grand spent, wanting to end things, that rock bottom night, and give that guy one piece of advice, knowing now where you're going to come to and all the amazing changes you've made. And for people that don't know, you've been sober of gambling seven years, sober from alcohol, four years. You run a sort of mental health social media channel. It's got around 5 million people following. You're a CEO of a company, an amazing dad, amazing partner.

Bigging me up. I am bigging you up. Yeah, because you deserve it, but knowing where you've come from, if you could go amazing partner. Bigging me up? I am bigging you up. Geez. Yeah, because you deserve it, but knowing where you've come from, if you could go back and talk to that version of you, what is one piece of a device that you would give? It would probably, to help myself see that it's just a decision to not do it, let's just take the next step. It would be like, don't think of this as a long-term decision

because it became too overwhelming. Like just the thought of my whole life crumbling around me and not seeing a way out. Like I'm very much want to see once I've done all of these steps, this is where I'll get to and this will be the end result. You can't think like that because it just, it feels completely impossible. So two things I'd probably given myself a cuddle and been like, you're not, you have, you don't have to be alone.

So you like get yourself into a GA meeting a bit earlier. Cause you'll, you'll, you'll feel less horrific when you've got a bit of community around you and a bit of support. And two, just don't gamble tomorrow. And that will be the first step of your journey. But don't think beyond that. Just get through to download Clash of Clans now and start playing it now and don't gamble tomorrow. Yeah, I love that. And what's so insane is when we know we need to make a change in life, we often think, what, I need to pay off this credit card debt, I need to tell my wife, need to change things with my kid, I probably need to go to therapy. It's too much. You can only do one thing. So you have to pick the thing

that's really pushing you to the edge and find a way to stop that. And you did. And I'm so proud of you. Clash of Clans. Clash of Clans. Wow. Right. So that's, that's a start, isn't it? Do you want to go now? Can they take any more? Well, I think, I think they're going to have to. So what is it again? What am I doing? What's your rock bottom moment?

How could I have said all of that and you've forgotten the question? Sorry, sorry. I've had so many. You've got to pick one. Yeah, I will, but I've had so many. How many do you reckon you've had? Four or five. Right. Does one stick out? Yes, because it was the one where I actually did something.

I've had lots of moments that should have been rock buttons, where my life was in danger, where I've ruined my life, where I've lost loads of money, where I've hurt people, I've been evicted. And I sort of woke up and went, Oh dear, well, I have a drink. So this rock bottom was the one where I made a change and like you going back to that night on the living room floor, I can go back to this night and go, thank God I went through that because the next day walked myself into my first recovery meeting. That is the beginning of everything. And for people that don't know, yeah, I'm part of the ADHD love stuff where we have 5 million

people listening somehow, where we talk about self-acceptance and comedy and what's that like, and being part of writing a couple of books. Somehow a wannabe rock star. No, you are a rock star now. I feel so weird to say that. Don't think it's wannabe anymore. Yeah, don't know how that's happened, but somehow a rock star at 40, stepmom, we've bought a house. Like I have a really happy, full, healthy life.

And I never, ever, ever did. And I could never have imagined that. So to take you back to my rock bottom. So it was in 2018. I'd struggled with alcohol for years and years. I go back on my old Instagram account and I can see at least four occasions where I've started the Soba app. And I've got to five days and I got to 30 days and I always fell back. I could never quit for the long haul on my own.

But you tried. You knew that something needed to happen. Oh yeah, big time. I always went back to it. I guess that's what addiction is. And it was 2018 and I was knowing I needed to change something. I'd started going to the gym. I thought if I could get fit, that would be my first thing of control. I was trying to limit drinking to weekends and sometimes I'd be really strict and I'd get to the gym five days a week and then get drunk Friday, Saturday and think I was... Would you go mental on those days?

Some days, yeah. I'd try not to, but when you're three or four drinks in, the wine takes over. And I was actually going through a phase when I'd done quite well. I'd got 50 days sober under my belt. Wow. And I was feeling pretty good. And I had yet another music project that I was working on. I've had maybe three or four that I've worked on and then they've either failed or I've left or it hasn't worked out. So this was another one. Yeah.

And we had a song and we were going to go to Ibiza. It was a dance song to film a music video. And the plan was to go to Ibiza sober. Wow. That's challenging. It's probably the getting wasted capital of the world. Yeah. But that was also my mindset at the time. I thought I was

invincible because I've done 50 days. And I'm guessing it didn't go well. Based on the fact that it's your work bottom. We were going for three days, we had a video guy coming out. Who's we by the way? Me, the other guy in the band, a manager. Like we had a whole crew coming out basically. And on night one, we went out clubbing. I think it was about 11 o'clock. I went, oh, F this, did a tequila shot. Next thing you know, I'm in some club. Someone actually said they could remember me with a bottle of wine on

the dance floor, just downing it. Taking God knows what, all kinds of substances. So it wasn't just going back to drinking, it was full on going back into drugs as well, which I hadn't taken for about a year. And basically that night lasted for two days. And I remember it's very hazy, but being in a hotel room with six or seven strangers, like a really seedy hotel room, hadn't slept, sun coming through the windows, everyone hires a kite, desperate to find other substances to keep going.

The video guy ringing my phone. Oh no, the video. And I'm just like, oh, airplane mode. I couldn't face the shame. And I carried on. I couldn't stop drinking or getting high because the minute I did, it would, I'd have to face it. Yeah.

So I just ignored it. I ignored my phone, ignored calls from my manager. Like they were there waiting for me. Just go back a little bit. You sort of glazed over it, but you'd done 50 days sober and then at 11 o'clock at night you went, I'll F it and had a shot of tequila. Do you remember that decision making process? What happened? It was the fun seeking part, probably the addictive part, just when in this moment, that shot of tequila is going to feel so great, we're going to have so much fun. I just threw

away those 50 days. I threw away the video shoot in that moment. Brutal. Yeah, brutal. But that's what it can do. Anyway, so then it's the day when I'm flying home. Yeah. And a video hasn't been shot, presumably. No, I haven't seen anyone, haven't answered my phone. They've just had to realize I've gone off somewhere. Also have my boyfriend ringing me. Didn't answer to him. So they were worried about me. Yeah, of course they were. Yeah. Thinking something horrible had happened and I was just in a three star hotel room with

a load of strangers sniffing keys. So why would you just, so it sounds like there's a lot of shame and it sounds like a lot of regrets, but why this particular moment would you highlight as your rock bottom? So the day I was flying home, we went to a bar, a few of us went to a bar to carry on drinking. So I just didn't sober up, even on the flight home. So I'm flying home to my boyfriend who hasn't got hold of me for three days and I'm going to turn up stinking of tequila. Yeah. And God knows what else. Yeah. God knows what else. So I get home and when he, when he opens the door and seeing his face, it was anger, sadness, worry, disgust.

And realizing what I had done, missing the video shoot, having to reach out to that guy, reach out to my manager and face the music and deal with it. I just, I hated myself so much. All the other times that could have been rock bottom, it was me. My life on the line, me getting evicted, wasn't bothered about me at all because I'm a piece of shit, I'm worth nothing. But seeing what I'd done to other people, it really just gave me a huge kick in the ass. And the next day I looked up, where's my nearest meeting? And I walked there feeling awful, embarrassed. Do I belong here? I'm 34, surely it's full

of old blokes. Oh, this is awful. What am I doing? But I've got to do something. It was like an act of desperation. I walked into that first meeting and I just remember seeing this lovely lady. She just held my hand. I burst out crying. Because all this shame, all this panic that I'd kept in for probably 10 years flooded out. And she just said, it's okay. We've all been where you are. We've all felt that way. It's okay. It's going to be okay. And then that lasted about an hour where I just listened to stories of people that were one day, one week, one year, 10 years sober. And I began to hope for the first time, maybe, maybe, maybe it wasn't over for me. Maybe I could do it this time.

maybe, maybe it wasn't over for me. Maybe I could do it this time. And it wasn't over for you. Look at you now, a rock star. And so, so that day that you say you, the first recovery meeting, was that your first day of sobriety up until like, that's, that was it. Wow. Okay. So I went hard on AA. I couldn't have done it without those meetings in the early days.

And actually that was September and then my relationship I was in broke down. It had to. Lucky for me. Lucky for you. So every cloud. Every cloud. That meant I was living in Amsterdam at the time. So I'm sober September the 14th. By Christmas, I've moved back in with my dad and step-mom at 34, going through a horrible, horrible breakup.

And I stayed sober through Christmas with my dad and step-mom, who were quite big drinkers going through a breakup. And I think once I got through that, I was like, wow, I can do this. Like if I didn't drink then. So you asked me, I'll ask you the same question. You know, that was your first day of sobriety. It's a horrendous rock bottom moment. You had tried a lot of times before and hadn't, hadn't quite sort of nailed it. So what piece of advice would you give someone, I guess, if they're struggling with alcohol?

Yeah, if I could go back to that moment, it would be for me, you need help. Now for me, that was recovery meetings that might be reaching out to somebody, friends or family. Some people don't have that. It might be therapy. It might be ringing someone. I needed help. I couldn't do it alone.

I had tried. If I was speaking to the version of me, I would say, march yourself into a recovery meeting. You're going to find your community there. That's such a big call though, right? So I can really relate to that. And I think the biggest blocker from an alcohol perspective is people are in denial. I was. Like, I'm not an alcoholic. I just drink loads. Like wear it as a badge of honour almost. So like asking for help when you don't even want to admit that there's a problem, like is really tough, right? That's so true, actually, because I didn't think I was an alcoholic. I just thought I was the life and soul of the party.

Funny how the two are often the same person. But every time I did something I regretted, I was drunk. If I was posting stupid stuff on social media, I was drunk. If I ever cheated on somebody, I was drunk. Any time I took harder drugs, I was drunk. Any time I missed an opportunity, I was drunk. There's a saying that you've got along those lines. I didn't do something bad every time I was drunk, but every time something bad happened, I was drunk. So it was the common catalyst. I think that's an AA.

So wow. I mean, it's so crazy to reflect on quite how low and quite how close to not being here, both you and I were. And then to look at the craziness of the years that came after. Sobriety meeting each other, working on a sort of life purpose together and all this craziness. So I think the sort of core of this one is just to encourage people that you can be absolutely on your ass. Yeah. In debt, hating yourself, covered in shame, failing at work.

And you can have a total transformation of every part of your life. I like, I like thinking of it as like, you don't have to be a winner from day one. Like you can, you know, not even day a million. You can be an absolute loser. Like I was the world's biggest loser. And in a way so were you. I mean it in the kindest way possible. But strangely those experiences give you the perspective, the resilience and the gratitude. Like the reason why we perhaps love our lives so much now. Definitely.

Is we know what it feels like to have to numb out to not want to be here. I'm more grateful for the good things because of the bad things that... So thank you for everyone listening. We truly hope that within all of the loneliness and devastation, there's perhaps some hope, which is that your lowest day, your rock bottom can actually be a pretty strong foundation to rebuild the rest of your life. And I promise we will talk about some happier things. Eventually. Guys, if you have enjoyed this episode, we would really appreciate you leaving a review. Or like, or share, or comment, you know, like do all of the stuff that helps us do all of

that. Or the usual stuff and we can't wait to see you again. Thank you.