LATE BLOOMERS - ROCK STAR MENTALITY: Why failure is your best friend and audacity is your greatest asset

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

In this episode, Rich interviews Rox about her journey to becoming RØRY, the rock star she always dreamed of being. Rox opens up about the 20-year battle with trauma, addiction, and imposter syndrome that kept her dreams on hold. She shares why chasing success later in life is powerful, how sobriety became her turning point, and why a creative pursuit is perfect for ADHD brains craving constant novelty. Rox explains how she overcame the fear of failure, lost everything with her first album, and built herself back up with audacity and confidence. They discuss the realities of pursuing big dreams when you've faced trauma and don't have a stable safety net. Rox leaves listeners with three pieces of game-changing advice for creatives: fail forward, be audacious, and act as if you already are who you want to be. Whether you're a dreamer, a late bloomer, or someone searching for the confidence to take your shot, this episode is for you.

Welcome to Late Bloomers. Where we are getting our shizzle together eventually. We've changed it to shizzle. Today I'm quite scared. Why? Because you're interviewing me about how to become a rock star when you're 40. We are going to dive into it, why failure is necessary for success, untold stories behind me becoming Rory,

and also how to unlock your creative dreams later in life. And for those that don't know actually, just in case, you are actually a rock star. Where your alter ego is. I don't like am I yet? I'm so early on the journey. I don't know. I think you are.

Okay. Sell out tours, sell out festivals. You've got an album out now. Like you're pretty rock star-ish. Okay. Rock star-ish. Right. So your artist name is Rory.

Yes. Is that correct? This is the most scared I've ever been for an interview because I can't sugarcoat anything because you know the truth. Oh, all these wafty answers you give all the like press and stuff. I'll just know whether you're lying. So yes, my artist name is Rory. Do you know where that comes from? No, tell us. And also tell us where the name came from and tell us how it began.

So my birth name is Roxanne Emery. It's the first two and last two letters of that name. Oh, simple as that. Did you not know that? No, I think so, but maybe I've stored that in irrelevant. Yeah, so it's like me, but without all the rubbish in the middle. I love that. Yeah. And how long has Rory been going?

I registered the social medias in 2018. Okay. But I didn't release my first single until 2021. I registered this. It's so funny that it's 2018 because it's the same year I got sober. Yeah. Well, there's probably something in that, I would say, because this isn't the first music sort of project you've been on, is it? I've had loads. Delph Close Dynamics, my first band. Rocks and Emery, my kind of folk, pop rock project. Holy Waters, like

a cinematic trance dance act. Seams, melodic bass. Rory. And that's five. Then there's all the other people that I've written for. Right. So talk to us about Rory then. Like who is she, they, whatever. Like what is, do you know what I mean? Tell us everything. So inclusive. Yeah.

She, they, whatever. So it's 2018. I am my least favorite version of myself that I've ever been. Yep. So I'm really struggling with drinking, binge eating, self harming. I'm struggling in my relationship. I'm struggling with money. Struggle central is 2018. However, I've always had the dream of wanting to do music, wanting to be a music artist, failed many, many, many times, but never gave up. The delusion was always there that one

day it would work. So yeah, started the Rory project. And by the way, Rory was never meant to be a rock star. That's not ever how I imagined it going. When I began the project, at that time I had done loads of dance features and I just wanted a project where I could do cooler dance features. So I still, even when I rebranded and bought a blue wig and all that jazz, I still saw myself as a feature artist rather than artist in my own right. So all this is rather surprising. So I obviously know Roxanne Emery really well. Like she's Bubbie at home.

Rox Pink. Rox Pink, sorry. Thank you. What is the difference between Roxanne Emery or Roxanne Pink and Rory? Rox Pink. Rox Pink. Alright. Do you know I'm actually going to change my first name? No.

I'm going to drop the an. Okay. So it's just Rox Pink. Lovely. Cool, right? That is cool. It's easier to write, it's easier to say. Less syllables as well. Rox Pink. Sorry, what was the question? Right, the difference between Rox Pink, let me get that right, and Rory. Because I look at you now,

you look the same as Rory. You've got half black, half blue hair. But what, who is Rory? Tell us a bit about Rory. I've spoken about this in therapy recently. So I have a sort of therapeutically helped view of it. And I just love this. view of it and I just love this. She's the parts of me that I have repressed or split off from rocks to try and just survive in the world. So I became very small, I became very nice, people pleaser, would never get angry, would be upset around anger, obsessed with fairness. And what I split off was my very natural aggression, confidence, competitive nature. So Rory embodies all of those things. And I just love that view. It's like the, the aspects of my personality that I had lost touch with, she has them in absolute bucket loads. So I get to be

so confident when I'm, I guess, playing fancy dress as her. So that's fascinating, because that how, how does that work in reality? Because obviously you're not always naturally really, really confident and really, really big and really, really bullish, but Rory is. And I get it from a perspective as recording songs and singing into a microphone, but you go on stage and you like smash it and are a rock star and are really super confident and I see you dancing around and goading the crowd and stuff. So, but my question I suppose is like imposter syndrome. It doesn't, it doesn't show when you're on stage, but is that a struggle? I don't have imposter syndrome anymore. Right. Because I read a book, I think it is a Seth Godin book, you know, I've been obsessed by him.

And he just had this beautiful way of explaining that every single person is an imposter. Whatever career you're looking to go into, nobody was born doing that thing. Every single person had to become, had to learn. So for me, I might look at someone in my industry like Olly Sykes, the lead singer of Bring Me the Horizon, and go, oh my God, he's such a natural born rock star, and I'm not. born rock star and I'm not. No, this guy had to grind and work and learn and practice and grow. And those things are available to anyone. So I literally just look around now at every single person and go, we're all imposters. How well is each person doing it and how well you're doing it is based on what you're willing to sacrifice, what you're willing to learn, how much you're willing to change and make a fool of yourself.

Now we very often see people becoming when their teens are in their twenties and we think that's natural. So when you do it in your thirties or 40s, you might end up feeling more like an imposter, but it's the exact same thing. You're just deciding to become. It's almost like fake it till you make it, isn't it? It's like just pretend to be a rock star until it becomes true. I think that's what I actually did. Like I bought a wig and I bought all these cool clothes and I showed up on the internet acting as if I was a rockstar.

And I absolutely was not. People started to believe you. Yeah. And then you do the first gig and then you start to get real world evidence, but you have to show up as your most powerful iteration, your most powerful form. It's kind of like having a superhero. Like I'm Clark Kent and she's Superman. That's...

Yeah, that makes sense. So like, what about authenticity? Because you've obviously said that Rory is just a hyped up, maybe even darker side of your personality and certainly some some repression in there. How do you, how authentic do you think Rory is? And I suppose, how you're the industry that you're in, there's like probably boxes to tick and pressure around,

you've got a look and act a certain way, like, to talk to me about how authentic you are. So the authenticity is in the music. And I've never had a problem with that. I've always been an open wound of a songwriter, even from my earlier projects. So it's authentic because I tell the truth in my songs. The fact that I have a long blue ponytail and wearing latex doing it, that's just like the cherry on top. But that's the cherry that makes me feel like I'm good enough.

Like I would struggle to like go on stage like this and jump around and have people clapping and that I would struggle. It's like a superhero outfit that helps you do your job. I'm glad that you're saying this and actually credit to you because I've not heard anything that I have to call you up on. I was like sitting here waiting to go, please say it's just innate confidence and stuff like that. And I can then say, well, you're sometimes scared to be in a crowd or if the door opens funny, you'll be all scared and all shaken up and need a cuddle. But no, you're quite sort of clear around

what you're like in real life versus what you're like on stage. That's so crazy though, because I can have a meltdown if I lose my wallet. have a meltdown if I lose my wallet. But on tour, like horrendous things have happened. I've been super stressed and I'm on stage. Is that adrenaline? Maybe adrenaline is a super powerful drug. I always get hate comments from people. Always. 99% of comments are lovely, but the 1% that you read. Like, oh, not her again, faking ADHD. She says she can't remember where her keys are, but she remembers lyrics to her songs for an hour. And it really annoys me because I'm like, yeah, hello, like I'm on stage, adrenaline, nature's stimulant is helping me out there. Well, it's actually really interesting because you do remember the lyrics to your songs, but I'm pretty sure I've never ever, ever heard you sing along to

another song and get any of the words right, like you just make them up on the spot. It's like pretty infamous in this house that I get lyrics to every single song wrong. That you grew up to? One Oasis song. I think I sung You Wonderwall start to end without one error. I think that was the only one. It's got about eight words in it though, innit? No. Okay, so you are the ripe old age of 40 now. one error. I think that was the only one. It's got about eight words in it though, isn't it?

Okay, so you are the ripe old age of 40 now. I don't like that. I don't like can you rephrase ripe old age? I don't know why that. Okay, I'll rephrase it. You're well old at 40 now. So basically, what took you so long? I suppose it's a double barrel question, right? So what took you so long? And why this is a double barrel question, right? So what took you so long? And why is why is Rory worked and not your other 69 projects? So no, no magazines asked you that question. What took you so long? I love it. So when I saw the first time I sung in public was my mum's funeral.

Right. You're gonna make me feel bad for asking this. No. Oh, okay. No, but like, my mum had just died. There was no support in my family, so I was thrown into that alone. And I did not know how to cope. I was very, very, very young at 22. And I didn't cope with it well. So I'm not dealing with my mum's death. I'm absolutely alone. I'm broken hearted. And I'm trying to make a music career work without any family support, without any money. Yeah.

And my mental health was like off a cliff. I tried to end my life a year after my mum died, whilst also launching a music career. Hello, no wonder it didn't work. So it took me a long time because I didn't come out of stage school with loads of parental money and a manager and people telling me what to do. I found it myself. I found a guitar and I found songwriting as a way to express emotions that I didn't know how to express with words, historically before therapy wasn't good with that.

And I always judged myself by the standards of people that were successful and people that broke out 15 years ago when I was trying it the first time. And I always felt horrendous and like a failure. But hello, I was like going through a lot of stuff in my 20s. Some of it not my fault, some of it my fault. So that answers the question. I'm going to like challenge you a bit on this one. So that answers the question as why you didn't make it at 22. Yeah. And that I think that's quite understandable with everything that you were going through. But the real question, why 18 years later have you

started making it? Because that's quite a long period of time. It's a really long period of time. So I worked on my own project for five, six years. I did open mic nights, I went on tours, I released EPs and I released an album. So this isn't actually my debut album, it is as Rory, but it's my second album and I put everything into it, like every penny I had and more. I'm gonna come on to money questions in a minute but yeah. I basically bankrupted myself, I spent loads of money that I'd got from my mum on an album that flopped, the guilt of that tore me to pieces. I was also an active addict, drinking, taking drugs. My life was so chaotic and so unstable, but when that

album flopped, I think the album probably came out 10 years ago. So it's not as long. That album flops. I swore I'm never ever going to do music again. I'm going to punish myself. I'm a big self-punisher or at least I have been in the past. Never going to do it. But I needed a job. So then I started working in music management. I started working in dance music. Not a good place to be if you've got a drink and drug problem or great place to be depending on which way you look at it. And I just got consumed in that life. Writing songs to sell to DJs so I could pay my rent and buy alcohol, managing other people's careers, probably projecting my own dreams onto them, letting loads of people down, letting myself down. I just let the dreams go. Just completely got absorbed

in other people's stories and numbing out life. And it wasn't then until I got sober that I started to feel the desire to give it another go. Like when you have a creative dream, it's more like a curse. Never lets you go. We're seeing it working now, but when we first got together, it really wasn't. And you've seen me sacrifice everything. Yeah. Well, let me ask you a money related question then. So I don't know whether the listeners will know this or not, but you've got ADHD, right? And, you know, even I think back to this podcast studio that we set up, what happened in your mind about

having to buy this, that and the other and the best this the best that and there was me going no we can't do all of that. Music's really expensive right so like how on earth how did you even make it happen because I can't imagine you've scrimped or cut any corners knowing you. Do you mean the first time I did an album or do you mean this time? This time. So this time was different because I had earned some money through songwriting. So when I did my first album, I had an investor. That went wrong. I spent my mum's money on it. That went wrong. Horrendous. Do not advise. This time I had worked as a songwriter, I'd written a few hit records,

I'd written myself out of debt. Like my company was six weeks away from going bankrupt, being struck off the register when the first check came in for my first hit that I wrote. So it's yeah, close. It's been a close call. But I've never looked at music through a financial lens, as you know. I'm like, any bit of money I have, I will spend on this. It's not about money. I just need to make the dream a reality. And I've made some really, really stupid decisions. And I've also made some decisions that were high risk. If I hadn't have done them, we wouldn't be having this combo now. So I don't know, like I think a big part was having you like you meet a bank manager with possible autism is

special gift is numbers and maths. It's not just that I'm well grumpy as well. You're grumpy with money. You can't, it's a waste of money. Like how many times have I said that? Yeah. Music videos have been a tough one to convince you on, but you've helped me curb the destructive spending and I've really had to fight for what I think is

artistic or sensible or investment in my career. So I've got like this massive safety net now so I can't bankrupt myself and I've had to work within those limits. Remember my first single, F-Fame. We built a photo studio in our old spare room. Oh my god, I remember that That was such a hard day. You had me pinning up plastic around the whole of the spare room, didn't you? Yeah, like if you go and look at that cover, we created that. I bought the wings and made the artwork.

Even my song with the biggest amount of streams, Uncomplicated, we shot that in our old living room. We made a pink wall and you laid the black and white tiles. So it's been so DIY, but now looking at that through an ADHD lens, that's unbelievable. You're doing a new single with new artwork, with new videos, and then you move on.

There's so much novelty. Yeah. Constantly inspired. Like music is the best job ever for someone with ADHD. It's fair to say it's like being your dream, hasn't it? It's, you know, I'm, I'm witnessed to multiple sort of hyperfocuses and obsessions and new things, but music is, you refer to it as your forever fixation. Yeah, it is. For 20 years, music and songwriting and being an artist has been my dream.

Now, I am sort of looking at that with one eye. Now I'm a bit older and a bit healthier and thinking, did that come from a healthy place? The desperation to express my emotions and be validated and loved by people. It's like maybe not the healthiest thing to want, however I'm here now. I don't think it always matters where something's come from. If you're aware of it, great. But like you said, you're here now. There's loads of personality traits

that I'm proud of for myself that have come from trauma and somewhere that's really unhealthy. But just because I'm aware of it, it doesn't make it less real, I suppose, does it? That's so true. I think I have a brain that likes to try and degrade everything that I do, even when it's doing well. So now I'm doing well, I'm like, is that just because you wanted to be on stage? So

you wanted to be validated? Does it come from trauma? To try and degrade the experience when actually it suits me very well. And I'm very happy at the moment with it. So we are a couple of idiots on a podcast and don't really tend to give people advice. But I am going to ask you to give people advice because it's quite obvious that you have achieved your lifelong dream in recent years. So what not necessarily music related, but I'm fairly confident that the majority of people that listen to us on a podcast are creative. Okay. What advice would you give them to achieve their dreams?

So I have three pieces of advice. Wow, that was that this is coming so naturally as well. It's something I would stand by so hard. So if you're looking to start a creative dream, chasing a dream for 20 years like me, you wanna make something happen, here's what I'd say. Number one, failure is your best friend. All the times I failed were building the resilience muscle. I was learning on the job. I was understanding what worked and what didn't.

And the reason why the project I'm doing now is super charged and it looks like it's growing super quick is because it's built on the back of a shitload of failure. When you're a sensitive character, failure can feel like the end of the world. And like you're not good enough, like you've been rejected. You have to push through, you have to go again. And every time you do it, you get closer and closer. But can I just ask a question on that before you go to point two? So I've heard that in various, you know, formats a few times. And I know that it's true. But I will also say, And I know that it's true, but I will also say that's really easy for somebody you sit in there that's, that's made it in quotes to say, and you've touched on it, it can feel really difficult when you fail. How do you, you said you've got to just carry on, but how do you do that? Because that's difficult.

You don't have a choice. Right. difficult. You don't have a choice. My amazing singing teacher, more like life coach David Grant said something to me once. I sent myself to singing lessons when I was 36, because we are doing artist development a little later. And he was so encouraging. He's always been like the most encouraging person in my life. And he said, he was talking about artists and he says, there are loads of artists that can do it, but there's not very many that can't not do it. And you're a can't not. I couldn't stop. I tried to stop. I've bankrupted myself with this dream. I got rejected from everywhere, from every label, never been signed or anything

like that. But I couldn't stop. So it's really to the person that cannot stop the dream, even though maybe you have tried to, or you've had to, or you've been hurt by failure, that dream will not let you go. It's like in your soul, you can't get away from it. That's so interesting. And actually, before you go, you will go on to point two in a minute, but I can't, I can't unhear you often say that you're not the most talented singer or the most talented, you like, you know loads of people that are more talented than you. Is that what you're talking about? Like is that that makes the difference, right? That you can't not? I don't know because I know people that work every single day as songwriters.

So they can't not songwrite. That's almost a difference. Showing up with confidence, that's a different skill. Okay. So that's point number two is having the effing audacity. Yeah. And I've had to build that muscle. As you just mentioned, I know so many singers and songwriters that are a thousand times more talented than me. I'm not saying that to be self-depreciating. Like I'm all right, I'm doing pretty well, cool, feel quite confident.

Like some of these people are literally like, like actual superstars. Like I'm in a room with them and I'm in awe. I can't believe the talents that they have, but they don't show up. They aren't on the internet, they aren't releasing music, they're caught up in their own head thinking that they're not good enough. And by the way, I used to be like that too. I hid for a very long time. I didn't have the same amount of talent, but I definitely hid in the same way. So you have to cultivate the audacity and to realize success in the artistic field doesn't belong to the most talented. It belongs to the person that is willing to show up, to try to fail and come back, to make a fool out of themselves, to buy a blue wig or whatever their version of that is. Like I have showed up and made a fall

out of myself so many times because I have the audacity. And when the Rory project started working, you build more of that audacity. Like I'm more audacious now. The things I wear on stage, my little latex numbers and my big blue fake ponytail. You have to build the audacity. And it's so sad because I watch some of the world's most talented artists not release music. And that's heartbreaking. And that will now never be me. And I want people listening to understand. You just have to put your shoulders back, go for it and do it and learn on the way. So linked to what you said right at the beginning of this episode around just like pretending

to be a rock star. It's all sort of interlinked with that. You pretend to be a rock star. Well, what does a rock star need? Well, they need audacity, they need confidence, they need to show up. Yeah it's really... I guess that's probably my third piece of advice. Just pretend. Just pretend. You want to be an author and write a book? What would they do? They would probably take some time off and then write that book or they'd write 250 words a day. Act like an author that writes a book would act. I just acted like a rock star would act and not like playing festivals and selling out tours. And you start off as acting, but then very quickly you acclimatize like how I felt at my first show versus how I feel now is completely different. So you

learn confidence on the way. I think what I see stops a lot of people is they're trying to control the outcome now. They think they need to be perfect or this fully formed writer or artist or whatever it is that your creative thing is. Like you don't, you just need a little bit of something and you just need to run towards that challenge each time growing. I love this notion of just pretend like so much. It makes me think of a child being born in the hospital, right? Like with a doctor's gown and a stethoscope and like that, it just highlights nobody's born a doctor, nobody's born a rock star, like with a doctor's gown and a stethoscope and like that, it just highlights nobody's

born a doctor, nobody's born a rock star, like nobody, everyone's just born this pathetic little lump of flesh. Isn't that so funny? Because a doctor is someone that has learnt and studied and sacrificed. By the way, much more valuable profession than being a rock star. I'm not comparing them on that level, on what they add to the world. But it's the same thing. You need to study and sacrifice and learn. And I know in my 20s, although music was my number one dream, the only thing I ever wanted, blah, blah, blah, alcohol was my number one love. I would leave songwriting sessions early to

go and get drunk. I always had a drink at gigs. I would show up late to studio sessions. Sometimes I'd even cancel them. So I was kidding myself. I've had to sacrifice like so much for this fifth, sixth chance, but I've got a hundred times more in return. So I think that's, I know you said three bits of advice, but I think there's four because sacrifice is huge. I see that all the time. Drink and drugs numbing people out to the point where they're not really giving it their all. We lose so much talent to being numb. Too true. Yeah. Okay, we're coming to the end, but we've got one final question. I've made it through. I can't quite believe efficiently. That's not my, that's what I said it. So obviously the album is out this week.

I'm hoping that it goes top 40 in the UK. You're listening to this podcast, you'll probably know. Yeah. Cause this is coming out that week. So, that's scary. Going on a big tour of the UK in March. And I'm already writing an album too. Of course you are.

You know that. You've got the artwork done. I've got an idea for the artwork. I've got a title. So at the moment, my working title is Bloodletting. Yeah, that's changed though, right? What was it before? It was Hysteria. Yeah, that might change a few times before the album actually comes out. I'm just putting it here because it'll be really funny to go back to. But basically,

I can't believe that I'm here. I've been given this sixth chance in music. I am going to work my little ass off. I don't really have any goals. Okay. Because my goal was to write music and have people listen. I've already achieved it. So like, this is all just like bonus material. And we'll see. Like I'm 40, you're almost 40.

You're 41 before I'm 40. Stop. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Every episode you have to hear it. When you're 41 I'll still be 39.

Is that true? Big time. That's so destroying. Anyway, I must say thank you to you. Who drives the tour bus, who sells the merch and who stops me from going bankrupt. This is like as much driven by you behind the scenes as it is me on stage. So thank you. Thank you for being a kind interviewer.

You are very welcome. Thank you Rory. You can now morph back into Rox Pink. Lovely. Hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you did, please leave a review. If you didn't, don't bother. Move along.

We wish you the best. Like, follow, subscribe, all that jazz. And we'll see you next week. See you next week.