LATE BLOOMERS - SIDE EFFECTS: The ups and downs of mental health medication

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox share their personal stories about mental health medication—the good, the bad, and the unexpectedly funny. Rich talks about his journey with antidepressants, including some awkward and memorable side effects, while Rox reflects on being prescribed antidepressants after losing her mum, how it shaped her grief, and why her sobriety influences her decisions around ADHD meds. It’s an honest, relatable, and often hilarious discussion about the realities of mental health meds. Whether you’re on meds, off meds, or just curious, this episode dives into the messy truth of finding what works (or doesn’t) and embracing your own journey. Quick disclaimer: We’re sharing our experiences, not medical advice. For real help, talk to someone with a stethoscope!

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I don't think anybody thinks that we are medical doctors. God, I hope not. But just in case you are confused, we are not. This is not medical advice. This is just two idiots trying to make their way through life, giving various medications and self medications a go. Yeah. So where do we start? I'm actually going to start with you. Oh, you're going to start with me. Sounds ominous, doesn't it? I'm going to start with you.

Yeah. So Richard. Yes. So, Richard. Yes. Have you ever been prescribed medication to treat mental health? I have been prescribed medication to treat mental health. Yes.

When was this? And if you don't mind, can you just tell us that story? So it would have been the year before we met. So I don't know, was that six years ago? Five years ago, five and a half, something like that. 2018, 2019. I got to a stage where I was sort of functioning sort of as best as I could anyway. And I remember a day where I dropped my daughter at preschool and then was driving to work and I just burst into tears. Text my boss was like, I need, I can't do this. I can't see you. I can't

cope. It just felt like, I don't know, it was all too much. I was incredibly anxious, heart beating really fast. Hold on. So what was going on around that time? Was that in the middle of gambling addiction? No, I wasn't gambling. Okay. I'd I'd I'd curved that I was drinking. I was in the middle of my drinking addiction But I was just in the flat obviously going through my second divorce It was actually a year before we met so going through a second divorce. That'll do it. Yeah. Okay, sorry. So you're in the car and you cry. Yeah. But something about it didn't feel like normal crying. Why? Why? Oh, well, it's just I was it was in the morning, you know, sometimes I would get emotional

after a few drinks, but never, you know, in my suit dropping off my daughter to nursery, just all of a sudden burst out crying for no apparent reason. The radio was on in the car. It was just like a normal day. And then all of a sudden, the day felt incredibly overwhelming. So anyway, I had a conversation with my boss and all that sort of stuff, but I decided to seek a therapist or seek support from a therapist through work. And it was just a very bad experience. And I can say that because I've since had good experiences with therapists, but it led me to get my first sort of prescribed medication. So I went in and he didn't ask me about my past. We didn't go into anything regarding sexual abuse or family dynamics or anything like that. He just talked to me about science and serotonin and dopamine and deficiencies and stuff like that. And, you know, within,

I think my second session, he was like, well, there's this pill that you can take that will, I think, raise the serotonin level. So, like, I'm not a medical expert, but that's what I can remember. And so, so let's try this. And yeah, I think it was sertraline. I think that was the drug that I was taking, went to the doctor. I said, I need something for this. My therapist has said that maybe I need it. And there was no sort of hesitation, just wrote out the prescription and off I went, started taking anti-depressants. Well, it was for anxiety, but apparently the drugs were like anti-depressants and anti-, anxiety tablets, like it was commonplace to use for both. So at that time, you wouldn't have said you had depression, you were saying it was anxiety. Yes, definitely. And it seems like looking back now, you're shocked that they didn't

ask you about your past or your life. Why would that be a shock now? Whereas at the time you obviously didn't realise. Yeah, definitely. I wasn't shocked at the time because it was like, oh, I'm with a doctor. I obviously trust, or a therapist, I obviously trust this person knows what they're talking about. And I'm quite, you know me, I'm an incredibly logical person anyway. So it was actually a really enjoyable experience at the time. It was like, oh, the guy's telling me about all these chemicals

in my brain. He knows what he's talking about. This is awesome. I can just take a tablet and everything will be fine. Why I look back now and it's shocking is I've since had some quite brutal trauma therapy, which like floored me, but in a really good way. And all the things that it just made sense, right? Like all the things in my past that had happened to me explained my present at that time. And I was able to deal with that rather than just take a tablet. Yeah. So going back to that time, so it's your second session,

get prescribed an antidepressant for your anxiety. How long were you taking those for? Probably about four to six months. So not a really long time. And there was some definite pros and cons. What were the pros for you for taking that medication? It helped my anxiety, like in its simplest form. But what it, I'm going to do a rubbish job explaining this, but what it did was just leveled me out.

So whilst I wasn't anxious, and I wasn't sort of, it picked my mood up, I would say, and my, when I was really activated and heartbeat and fast, it lowered that. But it also really sucked the joy out of me as well. I was just sort of existing. So it was, if you can imagine, like, it took the bad up and up down and just kept me in the middle of just existence. And it wasn't so that's it. So it is a pro because I was more bad than good. So it got me out of that. But it was almost like it sort of numbed everything a bit, the good and the bad, so there was a bit of a trade-off. Numbed is the perfect way to put it, yeah, it just numbed me.

But at that time, you were finding it difficult to go into work and presumably it helped you? Definitely, it got me out of bed. But very much I was experiencing a lot of like, fog, I would say, like almost out of body, I would just be walking around and almost looking down on myself, like just existing, like what's going on, like a bit existential, like what's the meaning of life? I don't feel anything, like what's going on, like a bit existential, like what's the meaning of life, I don't feel anything, like it's like a rover. Sound like seer. Yeah, yeah. Strangely. Okay, so what about negative side effects? Why, I shit myself quite often, well on the tablets. I've got a really funny story actually. Wait, stop. You shit yourself quite often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. About a few times.

Right, so I'll explain. And then the one, the one story. So there's a few times, but then one time was like, king of the shit story. This is the one. Can you tell us everything about this? Yeah, I will. But like the normal ones, the low key ones, where I was just sat in the kitchen and all of a sudden I would just shit myself in my pants. You can't all of a sudden, were you going for a fart? Yeah, like a little fart, but it wouldn't be like, you know, sometimes even unmedicated,

you like rip one out and it's like, whoa, that was close. Like this was just a little, and it would just empty my, my vows. It was all like liquid. It was like water, like brown water coming out. Anyway, the reason that was low key is that they were always sort of in my home, so I could, you know, take myself off to the bathroom, dispose of my underwear. The one time, oh my god. So I've previously said I was quite a senior manager in a bank and I was in Petersfield,

actually, like a little village about an hour away from where my like base branch was. The reason I was there is that I was holding a disciplinary meeting. So somebody had been a bit naughty and I was the hearing manager. So I needed to go through a disciplinary hearing. And I was outside the branch just about to go in. I was smoking then so, or vaping, I can't remember, I was consuming nicotine and waiting to go in and I farted and it wasn't just a little bit, it filled my underwear with poo, with water poo. What consistency? underwear with poo, with water poo. What consistency?

No, like wee, like poo wee. Brown lipgloss. Yeah, right, wait. As you can imagine, I was just about to hold a disciplinary meeting and I've just filled my underwear. Like it was a lot. Dissentery. So like anyone walking past would have seen my face in absolute shock, like, oh my God, what am I going to do here?

So I sort of, I had to waddle, I couldn't walk properly because I was worried it was going to like run down my leg and stuff. So I was sort of walking trying to maintain the bum in a neutral position without moving. So imagine a duck walking. Managed to walk to a supermarket, I think it was Marks and Spencer's or something, just like in desperation, grab the first member of staff that I found and was like, have you got a toilet? And they were like, no. And I was like, oh my God god my life's over. So left there and then managed to find a coffee shop, Costa Coffee. I didn't bother buying a coffee which I normally would because I'd just be lying straight for the toilet and just fear, just fear coursing through

my veins. Obviously took my trousers down to assess the damage. Realized then I was wearing white Calvin Klein underwear and they were just brown. It was just like down to the, down to the leg seam. So took my trousers off and held them to the light in the bathroom. Why? Well, because I was just about to do a disciplinary meeting. I wanted to make sure I didn't have poo stains. I thought you were holding the white...

No, no, no. They were beyond help. I held my trousers up. I couldn't see anything, obviously like sniffed it because I didn't want to be going into this meeting smelling of poo. Luckily, I don't think it was on my trousers, which is a miracle, or my brain just chose not to see it because it would have been too big of a problem. Managed to sort of, I had no wet wipes, so I had to just sort of dry wipe myself clean as best as I could. I threw my pants in a nappy disposal bin. Good place for them, I Yeah. Clean myself up. Obviously

then had to go commando into the disciplinary meeting. Ended up firing someone because they'd been really naughty after I'd just let loose in my underwear. I hope they're not listening to this. I haven't named any names. What was probably one of the worst days of their life was being undertaken by someone who's just shut up. One of the worst days of their life was one of the most memorable days of my life. Not, obviously, for that reason. Wow. Okay. Thanks for sharing. And then I went to Vegas the next day, by the way.

Okay. For a holiday. Hold on. You've told me a story about shitting yourself in Vegas. Oh no I did but it just wasn't. Wait but we're talking you would have shat yourself twice in one week? More than that yeah. Like it was regular I was taking these tablets and it was just making me shit myself. Is that a common side effect or is that you? I don't know. And your guts? I think it was. I think I googled it and it was like my experience died real.

I was like, I'm fine then. I was a heavy drinker as well. So obviously... You didn't know what it could have been, anything. At what point, because you don't take antidepressants now, I don't think you're shitting yourself on the reg. No, I'm not. Oh, you did though this year. Did I?

Yeah. Don't worry, I'm not secretly taking antidepressants. No, I wouldn't mind. You do you, but I'm just seeing a pattern. You did shit yourself on my tour and have to throw your underwear away again. Yeah, that was probably just poor diet. I mean, and also I would take five years between shits versus a few days. So I don't, I don't think I have an inherent problem.

Sure. That's good to know. Yeah. So going back, so you've fired someone, shot yourself, gone to Vegas, shot yourself. How long was it after that that you decided to stop taking them? I think two months after Vegas. I just stopped. And I did it all wrong. I was like just decided one day, I don't want to take medication anymore. And then just stopped taking them. I didn't seek any medical advice. I just stopped. And then a few months later, I met you. Antidepressant in human form. Yeah, apparently.

I think the therapist helped as well. I think the therapist. It was my therapist though, so I can take some. Was your therapist? I'm sure you were on commission actually. Man, yeah, I signed up a lot of people to that therapist. You did. So, should we go to you?

Sure thing. So what is your first time of taking medication? Well, I didn't actually take it. Oh, okay. But it was the first time I was prescribed. Yeah. So, I would have been 22. It was just after my mum had died.

Probably a month or two months after she had died. Right. A tough time then. Like an unbelievably tough time. And I was, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat. I was incredibly sad, low, I say depressed, but I was grieving. And it was so bad that I was thinking a lot about ending it. I can be with her. I don't want to be here.

I didn't have any family support. You know my family. You don't talk about it. So I was even though I was at home with my dad, I was going through all of that alone. Yeah. No hugs, no convos, just. And you're a big hugger.

I'm like the biggest hugger in the world. Makes me feel so sorry for myself. My mum's just died and no one's given me a cuddle or... anyway. So I decided to go to the GP because I'm thinking about ending things and I can't sleep and I can't eat. I go into the GP, tell them my mum has just died. Tell them what I'm feeling. And they got me to do a questionnaire. That nine questions, my moods, certain ideation questions. So I filled it all out. The guy looked at it and said, I think I'm going to prescribe you antidepressants. I was like, okay. And I left that day with a prescription and I went and collected them. And I went home and I sat them on my bedside table. And I can't tell you why I didn't, but I never took them.

Something felt odd or strange back then, we're talking, you know, 20 years ago. Medication was viewed a bit differently. There was a bit more of a stigma. If you were someone that identified with being on the left wing, you were quite suspicious of what would have been called big pharma. Whereas now it's really different. I think people are a lot more aware of it. There's a lot less stigma. And by the way, I'm not saying either of those is good or bad. But it was 20 years ago. So I didn't feel comfortable taking them. So they just sat there and I kept them with me for a couple of years until eventually throwing them away. But I feel quite angry because last year I was reading a book. I never got to the end of it because it was...

Obviously. Obviously. It was called Sedated something... I remember you talking about this. ...by James Clear. And obviously, disclaimer, all books come with their biases. It's up to you to read it and decide what it means to you. But he was speaking about sort of the rise of antidepressants in the UK and that there was a questionnaire

that got brought in. That if people came in with symptoms of depression, GPs were advised to give them. And it was the questionnaire I was given. And he explains how that questionnaire was put together and created by the same people that manufacture the antidepressants. So I found this out last year and it pissed me off. I'm like, bro, I've come in wanting to end things because my mum's just died. I needed a cuddle. I needed to be told this is grief. I need to be told it's normal.

Maybe to like have a tear up, but maybe that's not a doctor's job. I don't know. Maybe I needed therapy, but just as a 22 year old kid, and I was a kid, to be given a questionnaire and sent off with antidepressants, it just feels like woefully bad care. And actually a lot of the problems that I've lived with are as a result of sort of complex trauma that developed during and after my mum's death and how alone I was and sort of inadequate I was at coping with grief.

So just think back and think bloody hell if I'd had someone that didn't push me a questionnaire but had a convo with me, maybe life could have been a bit different. I don't know though, I was a maniac so probably not. When you like look back at moments like that in your life, it's, it's mad, isn't it? Because obviously I should look back and I can see objectively that that makes me quite angry as well. Like, why would you, why would you, why would anyone do that? Why would you just give a questionnaire and an antidepressants?

But your point there around, had they had a conversation, had you got into therapy earlier in life? Cause it, it was around when I met you, it wasn't long a conversation, had you got into therapy earlier in life, because it was around when I met you, it wasn't long before that, that you'd started therapy, your life would have been very different. That said, I'm a big believer in everything happening for a reason, we probably wouldn't have met each other, you probably wouldn't have had the life that you've got now, if it hadn't happened exactly as it did. I love this life and I also don't want to blame a doctor who was overworked, probably underpaid and following what was the guidance at the time. There's a lot of personal responsibility in choices and also saying, well, I wish they

had spoke to me or recommended therapy. At uni, when my mum was dying, I was really struggling at uni and they suggested I see a counsellor. And I went once, cried the whole time and then walked out, wiped the tears and went never doing that shit again. Ordered a beer probably. Went and got drunk and ordered a pizza. So, you know, even if someone had had a better conversation with me,

it may not have ended well. I think what I probably needed was my dad to hug me, tell me I was loved, walk through the grief with me, But he was unable, he was on his own grief journey and he dealt with that by total shutdown, dating other women. So I was kind of left on my own. I would have given you a cuddle, Bubby. I know you give me, I cry about my mum loads now, don't I? Yeah, I do need to get better at cuddling though, because I get too hot. That's okay. If I cry, you're like bursting with a massive cuddle.

So that was surprisingly my first. Well, okay. So we've had the story of the first time you didn't take medication. The big question now that everybody asks us all the time on the internet that we don't talk about much. Do you take medication for your ADHD? Firstly, I take it as a compliment that people think that I have helped this situation. But no, I do not. I am unmedicated. We don't talk about it on the internet because it's a sensitive topic. I am not qualified to talk about it. We

somehow have an audience of 5 million people. I don't want to influence somebody the wrong way or a way that may not be correct for them. It's a personal decision. Talk to doctors, talk to mates who've taken meds for ADHD. But yeah, the answer is no, I don't take them. Why not? That's a very personal question. Oh wow, this is a very personal podcast. I talked about shitting myself earlier in this episode, so you can come up with the goods about why you don't take ADHD medication.

goods about why you don't take ADHD medication. So when I was at university, I found myself struggling to complete my essays on time. That doesn't surprise me. And I also wanted to lose weight. Okay. There was the two problems I had. My solution to that was buying illegal stimulants from Russia on the internet. Did they work?

Um, yeah, kind of. So I bought Ephedrine. Right. And what I would do is I was kind of taking it to lose weight, but what I realised was I could crack out an essay over night. I'd stay up all night taking the stimulant. So you'd pop this pill, be able to do an essay, and you'd lose weight?

It was like three months work in one night. Wow. My hands were shaking. I didn't feel well. I had high anxiety. I was jittery, but I was able to get stuff done. But obviously I was abusing stimulants. So treat me like an idiot. Why is that relevant to why you don't take medication now? Because it's not only that. So I've taken ephedrine throughout university, abused it, it made me really sick.

I got to the point when I would throw up after food because it affected my appetite so much. Then throughout my 20s, I had a love affair with other stimulants. Yeah, I know the stimulant you're talking about. Maybe don't say that out loud. No. Let's just say Coca-Cola. Yeah. It used to be in Coca-Cola. Bloody would have loved that. What? I wouldn't, sorry.

Right. Let's not digress too much. That's why. So I've had a long love affair with stimulants from Ephedrine to Coca-Cola and getting sober meant that I really don't like leaving my body anymore. I don't like taking really strong painkillers because it freaks me out that I'm going to enjoy it too much. Yeah. Because that addict part is still there. So we've got some quite strong painkillers upstairs. Yep. And if I need one and I go to take one, oh, I don't want to do it. There is a little devil on my shoulder going take two, take three.

The bit of me that just wants to knock myself out, to be honest, and get away from being human. And that scares you. And that scares me. Now obviously the medication for ADHD, the stimulants, they're doctor prescribed, they're legal, they don't come from Russia. And there is evidence that says ADHD medication can actually help kids not develop addictions. However, there's also ADHD medication support and recovery groups. So both things can be true. The reason why I don't like to talk about it is that's so personal to me, right? It relates to me at uni, me in my 20s, my sober journey, a personal decision to just decide to rawdog the situation.

That's not going to be for everybody. So I really don't want this to come across as advice. It definitely shouldn't come across as advice. Don't listen to me. Look at us. Look at us. We are not qualified. I mean, what even is that on your top? It's a handmade thing by Simon. But what I mean is we're not medical experts. Yeah, just to be really clear. So I think it's a personal journey and people got to do their own research. Funnily enough though, they have now, I don't know whether it's available

or it's becoming available, there is a non-stimulant ADHD medication. But I wouldn't even want to take that. So it's when I say I've got a history of stimulants, it's not even that. I just... Like raw dogging it. Can I say that? Is that bad? I like raw dogging it and yeah, let's end it there. If you have enjoyed this episode where we've spoken about shitting our pants and raw dogging, please like and follow and if you liked it, please leave us a cheeky little review, we'd love to know. See you next time. See you next time.