LATE BLOOMERS - SLEEP SABOTAGE: 10 things only neurodivergent people do after midnight

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox dive into the ten ridiculous, chaotic, painfully relatable ways neurodivergent brains wreck an entire night — often before we’ve even made it to bed. From doomscrolling and anxious overthinking to sofa naps, Netflix loops, gaming, temperature drama, rumination spirals, and that dreaded “big day tomorrow” insomnia, they break down why bedtime always feels like a boss level we can’t beat. It’s funny, honest, and deeply familiar to anyone whose brain refuses to shut up at night. A comfort episode for every neurodivergent night owl who is trying their best — and still ends up wide awake at 2:47am wondering how the hell this keeps happening.

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Tell your car today, too. Carvana. Pick-up fees may apply. We all know that sleep is incredibly important for everything, but neurodivergent brains like to come and mess with our sleep. Today, we're talking about the 10 ways in which our brains get in the way of us getting a good night's sleep. And it's brutal, isn't it? Not, like not getting enough sleep is a big one.

Sleep affects mental health, physical health, how you feel is so important and we're all struggling with it. Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our lives together. Eventually. So you are, right? I love you. You're really amazing and energetic and just a joy to be around. Something bad is coming. But when you have not had enough sleep, you are a diva.

Isn't it? I have to be real. Yes. Like I'm like an eight hours girl. And if I don't get my eight hours, I'm low, I'm brain fog, I'm miserable. Like our first six months of having Rocket when I was doing the wee-wee wake-ups, it ruined my life. I love him to pieces, but it ruined my life for six months. And what I don't understand, right, when we're just about to go through this list of everything that gets in the way,

I don't even know how you do achieve getting enough sleep. I mean, look, we're going to talk about 10 things that affect us and loads of neurodivergent people. But go back 10 years, I didn't used to be able to sleep without being blackout drunk. I would wake up in the middle of the night and take gulps of wine. There were times that I was taking sleeping pills every night and was in that cycle. and so I think even though that we haven't got it perfect we've come a long way

and there was the same for you right like I to be honest I still I go through periods where I'm like just don't go sleep until 3 o'clock in the morning yeah it's horrendous but you used to drink and gamble like so it's you know we're working on it we're a work

in progress here at late bloomers and it's really common for humans to struggle with getting to sleep. It's even more common for neurodivergent people. Typically speaking, with ADHD, that's going to be an overactive, hyperactive mind kicking in late at night with some lovely side plates of anxiety. And for the wonderful autistics among us, that's going to be more about getting comfortable, temperature. That also could be anxiety as well. So we're going

to jump into it, have a laugh about all the ways which we struggle to sleep, and maybe, hopefully, have some hacks along the way. I don't know. Who knows? At least people will know they're not alone. Nobody's alone. There's no hacks. All right. So here we can. The doom scroll loop, number one. Yeah. It's when you've gone to bed maybe early. You've really tried your best, but you've opened up TikTok or Twitter and you're just doom scrolling, reading, watching. The hours have gone by. Suddenly it's 247, your brain has been frazzled by the blue light, and it's all over. It's a really interesting one about the concept of going to bed early, because often I find that that, because of this reason, it doesn't actually work out well.

Well, you're like, I'm in bed early, I can doomscroll, I can watch Netflix, and actually then you just end up overstimulating your mind. I don't know what the solution. is to doomscrolling. Like, I can only say that for me, it's much better when I don't doomscrow before bed. My kind of, like, optimum is falling to sleep during a program, or it used to be a podcast, falling asleep during something being on. That's my winner-winner-winner chicken dinner.

If you go down your phone rabbit hole, it's actually, Because if we watch a program together, like sometimes you'll go sleep earlier than you want to. It's like, babe, with 20 minutes into the episode and you're snoring next to me. I don't snore. Well, you know what I mean? Yeah, so I don't know.

I guess the advice would be don't doomscrow, but the thing is, if I'm struggling to sleep, it sometimes feels like a comfort to open my phone. Isn't there something, I don't know, like, about this, but isn't there something about blue light? Can't you get like blue light glasses and stuff like that is that not yeah i don't know i'd almost feel shame like i care so much about scrolling random rubbish i've got these special spectacles i think i'd rather just try

not to doom scrub but maybe that's idealistic special spectacles right number two is the it's the rumination station yeah okay and it's basically when your brain is just gone absolutely hyperactive. And it's thinking about arguments, important emails, ideas, and you're just ruminating over and over. And your body is physically tired. Like physically tired. You need to sleep. But you cannot shut off your brain. So this happens to me as well. It does. It does. Yeah. Slightly different, not different because you obviously do this as well, but yours can also be in, in creator land, right? Like, you can be thinking about writing songs and redecorating and stuff. Mine is pretty exclusively linked to if there's an important email to send or

a meeting coming up and I'll be thinking and thinking and thinking and I just can't, I just can't stop. You've had nights recently where you've been up to three or four just, just just laying awake asleep like how do you how do you deal with that this is horrible like the thing is when we'll probably come on to comfort but it starts off with the mind and it continues with the mind but then you like try and hack it by getting into a comfortable position so a roll over to get the cold side of the pillow and then that becomes hot and like it gets hotter quicker it seems Like you roll over and you have to roll over again like 10 seconds later. I'm sure it's longer than that.

But it's just a nightmare. And you obviously eventually got to sleep on those nights. Are you just waiting it out? Does it eventually? I think it's like brilliant here where we are. Stop trying to fight it. And then I'm pretty sure I just end up going to sleep out of sheer just exhaustion. And then when you wake up at 8 o'clock in the morning and you've gone to sleep at 4,

It's like, oh, no, it's such a horrible feeling. Yeah, the days ruined. I hate those nights when your mind is just on fire. I remember a couple of years ago, I used to use podcasts. I had like a sleep podcast that done like breathing exercises. And that helped me a bit. I don't know why I stopped doing that. I think there's a moment when you're in bed and it's like I could get up, get my earpods.

find a podcast and do that but you can't be bothered so you're like, I'll just hold out I'll eventually fall asleep but actually just go and put the sleep podcast on A scientist would probably tell you to get up and go and have a cold shower

and then come back to bed Like would they? Is that I've never heard that? I think I've read it before by some maniac but I don't know that ain't my vibe no

Oh number three This happens to me all the time and I hate this one so much Go on then It's the insomnia glitch It's when you've gone to sleep well You've fallen asleep and then you wake up Maybe there was a noise outside

Wee Maybe you need a wee Yeah And that act of waking up in the middle of the night Turns on your brain Yeah So if I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and it could be two or three, I'm then done.

I'm then awake until six, seven and it's, it's so devastating because you've been asleep. You've been in that peaceful place and you're so annoyed at whatever woke you up. Sometimes my own brain wakes me up. It might be a dream or I'm in a light sleep. And it's just, it's so devastating. And then you're just lying there all night and I just have to accept like, oh, it's an insomnia night like tomorrow is ruined it's horrible does that ever happen to you no i can't really relate to this one if i like i can i can struggle to get to sleep because of the day and what i've

been thinking about but if i wake up in the middle of the night i'll go i'll go straight back to sleep like no but my brain doesn't switch on in the same way yours does does it yours can go from zero to a hundred like mine is like i open my eyes and it's like i'm fully online yeah i'm like No, I don't want to be. I remember waking up to like take Rocket for whee's in the middle of the night and desperately trying. I'll be like keep the melatonin, like try and stay sleeping, not open my eyes. But it never worked. Yeah.

I remember when I was a new dad for both of them, I used to be able to get up, like change a nappy, feed him a bottle and go back to sleep all in like 15 minutes. It just wasn't a problem with me. Wow. That would, yeah. That would end me. Okay, the next one is the Netflix negotiation. Okay. And it's where you've gone to bed early night,

going to watch a couple of progis to fall asleep to. That something's different. The program's hitting differently. Maybe you've started something new or you're coming to the end of a season. And it goes next episode, credits roll. And you're like, I'm up in seven hours. this should be a non-negotiable but there's only one choice for that though it's just let it roll

let it roll to the point where it's like are you still watching i'm like yes yes stop asking me but like it almost feels self-sabotage you like what you know that your sleep is just getting smaller and smaller and you keep pressing next we've done it sometimes and being up to like three or four how to get away with murder oh stop was one of the first times we did it we started watching it and, like, just couldn't stop. I know. I know. I mean, it's obviously the show is so good, which is amazing because we all love a good show.

It's not about that, though. I was just about to ask, like, what is it? Because some shows that we love, you will fall asleep to. Like, we're watching Yellow Jackets at the moment, and it's like brilliant, but you'll fall asleep halfway through. But, like, some... You don't. It is...

You said if it hits you a certain way, that is not a scale of how good the show is. No, it's not. It's just like this strange all-night feeling where you're just not getting sleepy, you're just getting more into it. And then you feel naughty to like go on next episode. You're only ruining your own tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah, go on. It's it just is infuriating and we can fall into that. We can definitely be a bit like teenagery. 100%. It was fun in it. If we're watching a show. It's not fun the next day. No. you're so tired.

So maybe a Friday night thing. Yeah, but then you mess up your next day. I don't know. I just don't think, I think we need to have like firmer boundaries with how often we'll... I mean, it hasn't happened for a long time, so you are a sleep up with programs at the moment.

Yeah. That's the period you're in. That's because I'm like burning out at work. So it's like... Maybe. Helping me sleep. So there you go. There's a hack for you.

Over commit. so everything burn yourself out and then you'll sleep okay number five oh we're both going to have different experiences of this this is the comfort crisis this is when you can't get comfortable and it might be the temperature of the room the bed you might be in pain or it might be your clothes so do you want to go first because you're a big right so the window has to be open for me It has to be like an igloo in the room. It has to be freezing outside of under the covers. But I also have problems with my feet.

So like they can get really hot under the covers. But I can't, I don't want my whole body out of the covers because everything's cold apart from my feet. So I try to get to a situation where my feet are out, but my body's in. And then that doesn't feel right because then it's like halfway up my leg. Like it's a nightmare. and the heat of the pillows is a real problem, like a real problem.

I need a pillow cold all the time, but you can't achieve it. In fact, there must be one that exists. We need to find the pillow that's cold all the time. The silk pillows that I got for my hair, they do help you a bit though. Yeah, maybe. Because they don't get sweaty. Not like they used to. You run like really hot.

Yeah. And it's especially hot with my feet. Yeah, and your feet. And I can't touch you in bed. No. Because I'm apparently a radiator. You actually are. Like you are, I've got the sun sleeping next to me, the temperature of the sun.

And I'm like, no, like, but you don't always like, like, I've still got a fan going on me and it's freezing outside. I've got used to that. I've got used to the fact that I sleep in. in a really cold room. And I like that. It's quite easy to be warm under the covers. Yeah. In a cold room.

My thing is more... This is going to sound really weird. Really weird. I can sometimes feel my ribs. What? What are you talking about? I can feel that my ribs almost feel like they're poking me

and I'm trying to move and I can still feel them like it's sometimes really hard to get comfortable because I become really aware of my ribs and where they are and what they're pressing against and what they're poking on then I can't get comfortable and then I'm just thinking about my ribs

and I'm trying to squirm and move why are you looking at me like that? That's the strangest thing I've ever heard I can sometimes feel my ribs Like your ribs like Pressing into your skin Your muscles and like I've literally

I've literally never heard of that Have you not? That sounds rough babe It's horrible Maybe it's a brain thing I don't know But it just that affects me And then also

I can struggle with my knees Because I'm hypermobile Having flat legs Can sometimes be painful So I have in the last few months started sleeping with a pillow under my knees. That makes sense. And it is really helped. I actually figured

that out from, I used to find it really difficult when I got a massage because it would really hurt. If I laid on my front, my knees would really hurt and I'd like pretend I was okay, but I'd be in loads of pain. And then one day I was just like, can you do anything? And they put a pillow underneath my feet and it really helped. Then I sort of learnt and took that

You should do that every day then? Yeah, I should do it every day. Do, like, have you been putting a pillow under your knees? Yeah, that white fluffy one goes under my knees. If I'm sleeping on my back, I need that. And if I sleep on my side, I don't need it. But I've been putting it in between my legs. Oh.

Just feels quite cozy. Maybe you need some more pillows for under your ribs. I really hope someone comments that they've had struggles getting comfy because of their ribs. Because otherwise I don't think they're going to. Really strange. Right, that's five of mine. Why don't we do five on your card? Yeah, okay.

So missed window. Oh, no. So not an actual window. The sleep window. Yeah. So you know, everyone knows the feeling I'm just about to go to sleep, just about to drift off. And maybe I can see the door of Dreamland, just ajar. I'm just about to walk through it.

And I don't know, rocket goes crazy or the doorbell goes or something, or something crashes down and you jolt awake, that's it. That's the window gone. Welcome to insomnia. I get this quite a lot and I hate it. Yeah. It used to happen to me. We always used to listen to the same podcast when we went to sleep.

And it was like an hour long and I knew I'm going to fall asleep during this podcast. But on the odd occasion where the credits rolled and I was awake, I was like, oh, no, insomnia. I won't get to sleep it's awful it's like being awake at the end of a film that you've watched to fall asleep to

you've missed the window and then just that crushing feeling of like disappointment and dread and fear of like what now because you can feel it or you've come from the brink of sleep

and you can start feeling like the life life going back into you you're like no I don't want this I want to go back to the dream door I know I know

next is and I'm going to be quite specific but I'm sure you've got some different things but the overstimulation zone so for me specifically this rid its head when I was playing call of duty right so I was bearing in mind it's a war game we're going around a map hiding killing each other putting spring minds down like executing like I know it's only a game but and only people that maybe play games will understand this but like if you get to the end game if you get to final circle your heart goes crazy like you're sweating you're nervous your jumps get like it's like you're really there i'm sure it's not i don't want to say anything inappropriate because i know i'm not at war but like i'm sure there's certain bits of my body that think that i am

and i'm so like jacked and wired when i go to bed i'm thinking about like snipers out the window and stuff like that. I remember witnessing that because you had started playing cod again and you were really enjoying it, but then you had so many insomnia nights. And then I think I put it together because I was like, I think it's every night you're playing cod till 11 coming straight upstairs and then just lay in there like and you've had to start. So now if you do cod, you're like stop at 9 or 10 and then have.

Or 8, I think. I don't really play much. I have something else in between. For me, it's a bit different, but it's always if I've been working late, I think if I'm on tour is a classic example. Like, you come off stage, you're sleeping on a tour bus,

so you haven't had very good sleep. I'm grumpy, I'm tired. You've been singing for an hour and a half. You're knackered, but you're so buzzing and alive. I'd need an hour just to like calm down I need a shower

I need to be scrolling my phone I just I can't sleep because you're absolutely wired I came home yesterday from doing a music video shoot I've been there for 12 hours it was freezing I was so tight

I needed to sleep I was buzzing from the energy so I had to go and have an hours long bath to try and take the overstimulation down Yeah. Next for me is the sleeping in spiral. So everyone loves a lay-in, but I find if I do have a lay-in, and let's say we treat ourselves on a Saturday and get up at 10 o'clock, that throws me out so hard. Like I then don't get to sleep until really late because I'm just not tired. And then how do you get back to it? Like, a good way for me to think about it is that one laying will result eventually,

probably a couple of days later, in getting up, having to get up at 8 in the morning, but not have gone to sleep until 3 o'clock. Yeah. It has a knock-on effect. Think about me in my 20s. And this was my entire life. I would wake up at 2, 3 in the afternoon. having laid in

and then have to start drinking at like four so I always said I was never a day drinker but if you're getting up at two and drinking at four you kind of... That's breakfast drinking. That's breakfast and I'd have to drink them throughout the whole evening just so I could sleep or take sleep in pills.

We saw it with Sear, not anymore, they're doing incredibly well but when they first moved in with us Seir could sleep till 5pm. Yeah. And we were always speaking to them about like having better sleep and trying to get up in the morning but they just couldn't they couldn't do it and it was so self-defeating every day

5pm and there's no way you're getting to sleep so I think it's really interesting we kind of think about how do you get to sleep is so tied to how do you get up and have a good morning if you get up and have a good morning you've given yourself a really good chance and I really used to live like it I was all about the laying.

I'm not now. I couldn't sleep till 12 or 1. I'd feel horrible and I'd know not going to sleep tonight. What I do like, waking up in the morning, but staying in bed, having a coffee, having a little scroll. Oh, I could do that for hours. I'm sure you could. That's where I'm at.

I'm sure you've got, I've got a couple left. Lovely. Big day insomnia. So if there's something, this I can really relate to. So if there's something big happening the next day, important meeting, flight, anything like that. That's it. It's game over. It's so brutal, right?

Because if it's a big day. You need sleep. You need sleep. If you're travelling, you've got a full day of travelling, you want to be, have your wits about you, have slept, have energy. It's like, nope, you're going to miss your flight. And the anxiety of something happening the next day stops you from sleeping. It's so unfair.

Same with me when I'm leaving for tour. I need sleep the night before. Not like you aren't sleeping. Yeah. Why is that? Is it just anxiety of like missing something? I'd be like rumination as well probably. Just that for me it would just be an active mind.

I'll be thinking. I've thought about this. I've thought about that. What about this? Have I done this? Have I done this? What if I don't, what if my alarm doesn't set properly? Should I set more than one alarm? Like all of that. It's horrible. It's so, it's so unfair. It makes me think about people that have really high stress jobs. That's sort of policeman and nurses. Like every day is a big day because lives are on the line. So like how are they, how do they sleep or or maybe your body just eventually?

adapts to sleep through anxiety and worry. Well, I didn't have a job like that, but even working in the bank was higher pressure because there was sales targets and stuff and it was well, yeah, it did not help sleep. But I used to drink. Yeah, I think very often people might develop a bit of dependency on drink.

Yeah. Because what they're trying to get is to sleep. Yeah, to take the edge off. To take the edge off and it makes total sense. Yeah. Okay. ready for my final one. Yeah.

This is so, this is so brutal, this one. Go on. Falling asleep on the sofa. Oh. Everyone's done it, right? And the annoying thing is, it doesn't even have to be falling asleep. It's like, you know, when you get to that really like I'm about to fall asleep,

and then it's like, I should go to bed. Oh, no. But I can't be bothered. But I know I can't sleep here because if I fall asleep here properly, I'll wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning, freezing and uncomfortable with with a sore neck but it's like you can't

somebody else takes over you haven't got control over it because if someone says come on get up it's time to bed you're like no just leave me it's horrible you often actually we both can nap on that sofa and it's so interesting because it's like both

identified as like having quite a lot of sleep issues and not having the best sleep but on that sofa out like a light. Yeah. Is it because there's no pressure at all? There's no expectation.

She just drift off. Is it all the worry and stress that's making it worse? I remember a few nights I did sleep on the side when Rocket was a puppy because I was like, I'm not going upstairs

because I have to be back taking him out and I did sleep on the same thing. But that's different because if you've got your pyjamas on, you've got a pillow down there and you've got a plank. That's intentional. Yeah.

you can be like, right, cool. I'm talking about you falling asleep with jeans on or something and a jumper and a hoodie and you're fully clothed with socks. You imagine my feet, falling asleep on the sofa with socks wrapped around my feet. But you can't sleep in our room unless there's no clothes, the duvet, feet out, fan on. It's so specific. On that sofa, you'll fall asleep willy-nilly. But I wouldn't sleep all night, no way.

I would just wake up feeling horrific in the middle of the night. There's our sleep stories. I don't think we've given... Any solutions? Any solutions. Yes. Other than good luck. Yeah.

You aren't alone. It's a struggle for loads of us and it's okay. Maybe it's a lifelong journey. Thank you. Maybe try listening to late bloomers. Oh, maybe. If you do listen to us to go to sleep to, I'd love to hear from you. It's only half an hour though, so your sleep window is not long.

I have been told. that I sound like Andy from Headspace. You do. You'll send people to sleep. I don't know if that's a compliment or not. I think it is. All right. Not sure.

Guys, thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed it, it gives a like, subscribe, follow, wherever you are listening or watching. This has been late blooms and we will. See you next week. When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, all birds or skims, sure, you think about a great product,

a cool brand and brilliant market. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling, and for the shoppers buying, simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not-so-secret secret, with shop pay, that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going... So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform,

better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout skim's uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash audio boom, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash audio boom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash audio boom. Thank you.