LATE BLOOMERS - SMALL VICTORIES: Why tiny wins matter more than overnight transformations

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Ever planned a total life overhaul, only to burn out in three days and feel even worse? Yeah, us too. In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox get brutally honest about why we chase fantasy fixes—like crash diets, productivity sprints, or becoming a totally new person overnight—and why those plans always fall apart. From ADHD brains addicted to dopamine and all-or-nothing thinking, to trauma-based shame spirals and the lure of a brand new notebook, we unpack the psychology behind self-sabotage. But more importantly, we talk about the antidote: small victories. You’ll hear about money meltdowns, fantasy meal plans, unfinished wardrobes, and why building trust with yourself through micro-changes is the only sustainable way to grow. If you’ve ever thought, “I should have my life together by now”—this one’s for you.

Mom, mom, did you see my race? Of course I did darling. Look, you did your best. You tried. The thing is, it's not about winning, it's about taking part. Next year you might do better. But I did win, mom. You did?

When it's sunny, make sure you can still see. At Specsavers, get two pairs of glasses from $149 and one can be prescription sunglasses. Hey, the sun won't wait. Visit Specsavers.ca for details. Conditions apply. This week we are talking about small victories and why the tiny wins matter more than the big changes. If you are anything like me and you have ADHD or trauma, and you tend to think in black

and white terms, you've probably tried to restart your life loads of times, whether it's getting on top of finances, finally getting organised, losing weight, starting a new hobby and making it a life purpose. This episode is going to talk about why we do that and how to actually do something more realistic and achievable, which is hitting those small victories. This is Late Bloomers where we are getting our lives together. Eventually. I didn't know whether you're going to say eventually or not. I always do. You have to trust that I'm going to do eventually. Oh my god. So this is so much about my life. I feel personally attacked by this

episode already. Yeah, I can see why you would to be honest. So let's talk about the ways in which we, and when I say we, I mean me. I mean, I do get it wrong, but like maybe not as much. Not to the same extent. How we get it wrong. So it's about imagining that you're going to do a complete change, like zero to a hundred. So it's if you want to lose weight or start building on your fitness, rather than doing a walk three times a week, you go to gym every single day, cutting out all carbs. Like it's- Well, you do.

I bet a load of our listeners do too. Yeah. It can't just be me. So it's this mentality of like complete black or white, complete opposites. All or nothing. It's all or nothing thinking. And it's just absolutely rubbish, right? Because I've lived 40 years and I've done this every

time I go to do anything or change. I do it this way. I'm expecting to like press this button and have an extreme change overnight. It is actually really common for people with ADHD and for people that have had trauma in their early life. Often those things do go together. To have this kind of black and white shame based thinking. And why I call it shame based is if I think about all the times I've tried to like change overnight, it's because I absolutely hate how I'm living, how I was living in the current. So that would be in my overdraft, 40 grand in debt, wanting to switch to like investing crypto and like be amazing with money. And it just comes from this absolute total rejection of who you are

now. So you feel like you just need to wipe the slate clean. Like on a smaller level, I think every ADHD that goes to buy another new notebook because they think they're going to totally organise and transform their life with to-do lists in the new sparkly notebook is living under the same delusion that like you can totally change who you are. in the new sparkly notebook is living under the same delusion that like you can totally change who you are. I agree, it doesn't have to be always based around loads of shame. Like you mentioned wait, if you're like a bit heavier than you would like to be personally, you properly

go to, right I'm only eating, like let me Google the best diet that is known to me. Don't you remember those smoothies that you used to do every day. Sorry, but this is just... It was so like... This is too on the nose for what happened this morning and I'm going to share. So just slight warning if you don't want to hear about someone overthinking their weight, skip the next minute. So I've been feeling a little fuller recently. I noticed it because

I had a reduction, I had a chest reduction in the beginning of the year and I noticed they were looking a lot bigger, even though I'd got them reduced massively. And I was like, oh, how's that happened? Have they grown back or have I put on loads of weight? Anyway, so I got on the scales and I'd put on a stone and a half, which... Since September it was. Since January. Really?

Yeah. Now I'm only five foot three, so that's quite a lot for me. Now I'm feeling great. I'm rocking it. I've only just noticed the top half, but what I did. Oh no, have you done something that I don't know about this morning? I've just done exactly what you just said I would do. I went on chat GPT and I was like, what is the absolute fastest way, maniac way to get back down to eight and a half stone?

And it was talking about doing 75 hard, where you like do 45 minutes exercise twice a day. You cut out like sugar, you read non-fiction books. Like it's insane. But I was like, I'm going to do 75 hard, which I'm not. So are you still there or is like maybe recording this episode hopefully changing? This episode has come at the, it's like an intervention for me. I'm not going to do 75 hard. That's music to my ears because I would have been roped into. You would have been roped into. So yeah, this is like bang on the money for where we are and what we're doing.

So why, the question is, why do I and other people want to do that? Why do we want to press the reset button and have like a total overhaul? Well, I would like to know the answer to that question, because it very much does align, like we've already mentioned, it's all or nothing. It's like, you can't, so for diet, for example, you can't just not eat a cream egg later. It's like, no, if I'm gonna not eat junk,

what I do eat needs to be the best possible thing. And there's no point in doing that, unless I exercise four times a day. And there's no point in doing that unless I drink 18 litres of water. Do you know what I mean? I'm exaggerating clearly, but it's like you can't do, it's almost like cleaning a room. You can't just do one little thing. You have to do the whole thing or it's not worth doing. Yeah. But even as you're saying that, I logically know it's not right. But my body's like, yeah, like all or nothing. Why bother? But I think you saying you logically know it's not right is progress because I don't

think you would have said that maybe three years ago, you'd have been like, no, I am doing it, that is it. And I think it probably leads us well to why do we need it? Why is this intervention of this episode necessary? And it makes me think about not necessarily the fantasy of planning to, I going to do all of this. It's when you inevitably don't achieve what you set out to achieve, which is most of the time when it goes extreme, it sort of leads into a low...

It makes it even worse, your low self-esteem, low self-worth, like the shame and it's like, well, I can't ever... I'm destined for a world of being too heavy or whatever the topic is. It's so true. It's almost like having that all or nothing, you set yourself up to fail because nobody moves from all to nothing. It's like, if you think about training for a marathon, you don't just not train and then go and do one. Well, you did. Twice, isn't it? Is it twice you've done that? Not throwing up halfway around and just scrape into the...

I mean, you achieved it, but you did absolutely do that. I did run a marathon in there training. I hit the wall at one mile. Yeah. And I had a couple of Bacardi diet cakes halfway round. I know. Oh my God. I was in my 20s. Nothing, nothing. I don of Bacardi diet cokes. That's so... I know. Oh my God. I was in my twenties, nothing can be done. I don't think you could do that now. But I think you really hit on something, which is when we want the total overhaul, you're

setting, you are going to fail, which then reinforces your already rubbish, low self-worth. So you're like, not doing yourself any favors by expecting miracles. I think we could learn a lot from the recovery meetings we've both done, where they focus on one day at a time. Like that, that to me really rings true in this conversation is like you want to eat better, just eat better today. Just make better decisions today. Be better with money today. It's so true. I think recovery in the whole one day at a time thing is unreal because actually in my life, everything I've tried to overhaul overnight, health, money, career, I've always failed. But actually with stopping drinking in 2018, it did happen overnight. It was a total overhaul through the lens of one day at a time.

Will Barron And the beautiful thing about maybe not alcohol, but the beautiful thing of thinking about it one day at a time is when you do have a barbecue and a binge day or you have a spend and you have you spend a bit of money on payday and you do a bit of shopping. What that doesn't do is derail the whole thing. It's like the next day, okay, I'm just focusing on today. Like rather than, oh, I guess I spend loads of money now or I guess I have cream eggs for lunch. It's so true. I am so guilty of that. Let's talk about my 75 hard.

I could probably get to day nine, mess up and then it's over. And then it's all like, maybe we'll need to make day nine. But like it's keeping yourself to such a high, horrendous, impossible standards that you're never going to get. That's quite sad really to think of that. So this is called Small Victories. And this episode is about why, rather than trying to go reset, let's change everything about myself overnight. It's about the small little wins in reality. I think that's also something that definitely affects me, is this belief that you can change overnight is a fantasy. It's living in a fantasy land. I think there's a lot of dopamine in fantasy, there's a lot of escapism in fantasy, and

I know that ADHDers who live in their heads fantasise so much. It's where a lot of creativity is born from. Where a lot of good comes from it. You can fantasise about a creative idea, a future, it's almost like manifesting in its own way. But the fantasy of, I'll wake up tomorrow and be able to run a marathon. I'll wake up tomorrow and suddenly be great with money. You're almost getting high off the idea of something. There's no basis to it. It says, no, like, why will you be good with money from today

on? No, no, we've got to work with micro changes. So why do the small wins work? First of all, it's because it's actually achievable. It's not the fantasy. So let's just go back to me and 75 hard because it's very current. That is a total fantasy. Yeah, it won't happen. It is not achievable for me and my makeup to do 75 hard. Some probably in the comments would argue that you could, but it's not in reality. Based on everything that I know about you, it's not. I ain't getting through 75 days without a cream egg.

No, oh it's for 75 days as well. 70, that's what the 75 is like. 75 days. That no what? All the like the bros do it and. And what, and I get the fantasy because what you think is you fast forward to 75 days time. Like if I do it for me, I'd have like visible abs and it sounds, you know,

you picture yourself walking along the beach on holiday, like feeling really confident and proud but- Snatched. But I wear, McDonald's is too appealing and Domino's Pizza and stuff like- Yeah, it's like knowing your pers- like some, for some people it is achievable. Yeah, of course it is. But just not for us. So if 75 hard is not achievable, if my fantasy self, and my fantasy self does do 75 hard,

if that's not real, what happens is when you're a black and white all or nothing person, you're like, oh cool, well, I may as well not bother. It's all or it's nothing. So it's finding what is realistic and what is achievable for whatever change you're looking to make. So for my health journey, it's honestly probably just going on a longer dog walk every day. Yeah, and it's stuff like to make sustainable decisions, you need to be able to enjoy it

as well. Like remember when you used to have them like Greek yogurts and fruit cut up and made into little ice lollies and you could do a week and you enjoyed that. If you go right now, all I'm going to eat is raw broccoli because it's health, it's better than the benefits. You'd be like, no, you won't do that because it's disgusting. It's so tiring being insane. And so yeah, achievable, like very small, achievable goals. And it's way better to set a goal that you achieve than it is to have a fantasy and then full shot. Well, you get to celebrate it, don't you? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the next thing. So it's achievable. It also builds trust in yourself.

I feel this applies so much to ADHD as we often lack so much self-trust because we've spent a life making promises that we have broken because of ADHD. I'm never going to lose my phone again. I promise I'm going to be on time next time. I'll never forget your birthday again. You over promise you under deliver and you lose trust in your ability to change. It's maybe why we cling to fantasy because reality is always kind of let us down. You've already mentioned it, but loads of the people listening to this, if they've got ADHD, I would imagine they would resonate with the, I promise that I'll be on time

and organized and buy a new notebook and do a wall planner and stuff like that. And yeah, that must, that must hurt, right? Because that's like what society says you need to be good at, rather than a vanity thing. It's like, well, loads of jobs say you have to be good at, rather than a vanity thing. It's like, well, loads of jobs say you have to be good at this, so I'm going to do it. This is, I'm going to be bold. I'm going to be the most organised person in existence. Wow. So is it like, we failed so much in reality that we have to divert to fantasy? Maybe. Because it's really hard to exist in a place where you keep saying you're going to get better and you can't.

Oh man. So having something achievable also builds that trust with yourself. If I just set myself the goal of a bit of a longer dog walk and maybe not as many cream eggs, I'm going to build trust that I can say something and follow through, which is not something that I really have in myself at all. I almost feel like that's where the power of fantasy is because the dopamine of that fantasy can drag you through into action. It's really quite strange. You also get evidence of change. So if I say I'm going to do 75 hard and I fail, the evidence I collect is I'm a failure, I can't do it, I'm weak, I'm useless, all the classics.

Whereas if I set myself the dog walk and the one less cream egg, that's achievable. I'm going to be able to do that and I'm going to collect evidence that I am a person capable of making change. Yeah. Well, I would also say just as you were saying that, I think it's probably worth noting that whilst you have made improvements and stuff like that, I think this is going to be a thing for quite a while. You're like, we haven't cracked it yet, I don't think, have we? So for those listening thinking, well, I can't do it. As in me figuring out how to be achievable with change? Yeah, well today you've done, you've Googled 75. Now you've backed away from the 75 hard, but it wouldn't have taken much of a different mindset for you to be like, we're doing it

and then fail it. I still think it will happen. I honestly only think I'm considering not doing it because it happened to be today's podcast episode. So for sure, I will hold my hand up and say, we're talking about it. And it's so easy to give advice and be like, something small and achievable, build self trust. I don't listen to that. We know what to say. I am an absolute maynard. No, because it's not fair because you, you don't act that way. And I sort of feel like, well, maybe you do. Let's find out. Do you ever have a fantasy about changing yourself or doing something like overnight and going from like zero to a hundred? Well, yes and no. Okay. I would say broadly no,

like, and that composes its own problems, right, especially in our dynamic, because you are And that can pose its own problems, right? Especially in our dynamic, because you are, think big, think bold, we can achieve all of this. And I can sometimes react like a bit of a cynic or a bit of a negative ninny being like, I don't think that's going to happen. And I've like, I do it and I've had to train myself to do it in a really non dismissive way and a non-negative way. But I am more pessimistic around what we can achieve. I mean, it was only the other day when

we were at breakfast, right? You were saying about whole food cooking and stuff like that. And I was looking at you and smiling. Well, I said, I said, I'm going to start cooking whole food every night. Yeah. Which you'd done for a period and you felt great. You had loads of energy. I've done it for two weeks last August. Yeah, okay. And I was like looking at you and smiling. Internally, I was like, I'm not sure that's going to happen. Like, I think it's a good idea, but this, we've been here before, blah, blah, blah. And you like clocked something different

was going on inside me. So you asked me what I was thinking and it like doesn't and it can come across really really negatively. The thing is though it's difficult because are you being pessimistic or are you coming up against my fantasy that I'm going to turn into like you coming up against my fantasy that I'm going to turn into like an amazing whole food chef cooking for the whole family. But there's a balance because yeah, what you can't do and this is a fine line, right? Because you've got ADHD, you will live in fantasy, but we've written two books, we've started this podcast, we've got so like, what you can't do is just dismiss everything that someone with ADHD says because it's like you live in a fantasy, it's never going to happen. You have to give it time.

That's so crazy. Why is? So the bit of me that fantasises about being great with money, being super healthy, cooking whole food every night. That is the exact same muscle that fantasised about writing a book, starting a podcast, becoming a rock star at 40. But for some reason, the creative ventures, the fantasy worked, but in my daily basic life, money, health, self care, it's never worked. So why is that? Well, I think this has gone down a bit of a different path, but let's be really honest.

Yeah. Although you're the creative driver of everything that's worked, I don't think you would have just been able to do it by yourself. Like I think both of those things need support and guidance and structure. So I had the idea to write the book, you put it in the calendar and forced writing days. I had the idea to make a body doubling app and everyone thought I was crazy. You found the app developers to build it. This podcast. I had the idea to do the podcast. You went and booked Max, hi Max. And built this studio.

It records it. Wow, hold on. So, I need you. To cook every day. Yeah. No, to like, make me cook every day, but that doesn't work. I don't know.

No, it's harder when it comes to personal decisions. As a business partner or somebody that once supported, great, but I'm not taking the mantle for your eating. You can't be responsible for someone's everyday basic life, but you can be a business partner. I think that's really interesting, by the way, to why so many ADHDers and neurodivergents will really excel in creative areas because their fantasy, it's actually a skill, their fantasy skill in a creative world is actually a superpower. But it doesn't work so well in real life. Let me just go back to specifically answering the question though, because I think it's important around the difference between- Well, I've totally forgotten what was the question.

You were like, do I do it? Do you try and change overnight? Yeah. And the thing is, although I can maybe go on more pessimistic, I will take on big things. maybe go on more pessimistic. I will take on big things. And the difference between me and you potentially is that even if I hate it after halfway through it, I will finish it. Like the wardrobes that I built in our spare room for like a walk-in wardrobe. After halfway through that, I was like, I can't even think about looking at another one of these flat pat wardrobes. There was like 12 I had to put up in the end, but I was like, I'd done it, even though I hated it. Whereas I don't think maybe you would have. I think it maybe would have been...

No, I would have abandoned it halfway round. Yeah. I mean, before I lived with you, any room or flat I've lived in has had like half open paints and like wood I was going to put on the wall, pictures I was going to put up. I'm like the half done project queen. Out of interest. What motivates you? If you're like... Right. So there's two answers to this. The cocky way and the inaccurate way of me answering this would be for me to say, I'm a man of conviction.

If I say I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. I've learned over the last few years, that's just not true. What is true is I can't handle not finishing it. If I say I'm going to do it, I'm uncomfortable, I will get it done because my brain can't handle it half done. So that might be a future thing with my brain that we go and seek, like maybe a bit of autism. I don't know. Oh, right. But I can't not do it. Like rigid thinking. I said I'm doing it. That makes so much sense. I wish I could have

a bit of that. I feel physical discomfort with the thought of half doing a job. Yeah. Physical discomfort with the thought of half doing a job, yeah. Physical discomfort. Yeah, it will affect my sleep, my eating, my mood, everything. Everything has to be done. It's why I'm like it with being a bit clean and tidy around the house. Like it affects me way more than you would expect it to. Right, we need to have a conversation off camera because I didn't know it caused physical pain and kept you awake at night. So we'll be having a chat. Okay.

All right. The wardrobes are lovely though, aren't they? The wardrobes are absolutely lovely. So, but you kind of, even the wardrobes, it took you a few weeks. You did a couple every day. You took a bit of time off. You did one. You did four. It was like small victories. Even though it was a huge thing you were doing, you were able to like break it up into chunks, go back, take time off. Me building a wardrobe, I'd be like, let's do it in one day. You would have to, otherwise you wouldn't go back. And then, but I'd burn out halfway through and it wouldn't get done. So I think you're actually a really good example of how to live in reality, how to take small steps.

In terms of my small victories, obviously I've failed extremely hard today. Well, you haven't pursued it, you just let yourself live in the fantasy of it for a bit. And we're not doing it. We'll talk about that off camera too. I think probably one area that really exemplifies where I made my biggest mistakes and then actually walked into small victories is my relationship with money and my bank account. So just to be really real, I am not very good with money. No, I'm really curious as to what you're going to say now. I hope I don't have to like call you out. I'm going to say is, in my fantasy, I read some finance books and become amazing with

money and I'm moving money into high savings. I'm never in my overdraft. I'm leveraging credit cards. I'm saving. That's my fantasy that I become amazing with money. I have fully accepted that that's not going to happen. That isn't me. It's something I struggle with, with overspending, with budgeting. And I've accepted it. I've accepted if more money goes into my bank account and I want to save it, I'm not. I'm going to spend it. I've accepted it. So my small victories are doing things that nobody is ever going to clap for and no one's ever going to see as a victory, but I do. And it's a bit unusual. It's stuff like I don't have credit cards. For me, that is a financial victory that I have decided to give up having credit cards rather than trying to fundamentally change my personality.

It's a small victory that my credit rating is now excellent and I won't take credit for the credit rating. You really helped me with all those steps. But because I don't have credit cards, because I take a small salary and only have a debit card, I can't impact it negatively., it's not only small victories in like a small daily action, it's small victories in like your own weird way of figuring out what works for you because no finance book is ever going to say, don't have a credit card, only take a tiny bit of money to stop yourself overspending. Because it sounds really silly, but that works for me. It's a really nice way of thinking about it. So before you started speaking, I was thinking,

I hope she doesn't say she's now good with money because what worries me with your money still, actually, is you'll have a salary, but you'll come to me when you're like, babe, actually is you'll have a salary, but you'll come to me when you're like, babe, can I have some more money because my payments are getting declined and bouncing. I'm like, oh my God, I start sweating. But what you've said there is so true. And actually, what you've done, the victories are you've made decisions to protect yourself. Yeah. Which is huge, because if you go back, you had loads of debt,

you were maxed out on all the credit cards. I remember when we first met, you were like, oh, they've increased my credit card, so I've got this amount of money to spend. I was like, no, that's not your money. That's just a, what? And like, you've made decisions that have really protected yourself

and grown your credit score. A little bit wonky around how we do that and what support you need, but who cares? Who cares if it works? So I think it's not only small victories, but it's finding your own wonky weird ways to get your small victories. I feel like everybody listening is going to have a challenge.

It might be health, it might be career, it might be money, it might be timekeeping, it might be organisation, it might be self-care, it might be as simple as getting up out of bed every day. So for some people a small victory is just making it to the bathroom and cleaning the teeth and going back to bed. So it's so important to say that wherever you are, any step forward, any step forward is a small victory. If you've got a huge room to clean and you do five minutes of it, small victory. If you've been in bed for four days, not cleaning teeth, not brushing hair and you clean your teeth, small victory. We've got to stop judging at this perfection standard says she. No, I think that's a good-

Still thinking about 75. Hard. It's been such a lovely episode. I feel like I've learned stuff about me and I'm really going to try and approach my health in a more realistic small victory way. We would absolutely love to hear your small victories in the comments. So do let us know what are you working on? What are you doing well? And let's celebrate together.

Hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, like, follow, subscribe, all that jazz. And if you haven't, please don't say anything and just move on nicely. See you next week. See you have, like, follow, subscribe, all that jazz and if you haven't, please don't say anything and just move on nicely. See you next week. See you next week.