LATE BLOOMERS - THE CHERRY TREE THEORY: Why changing your environment is the key to personal growth

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

What if the reason you’re struggling isn’t you—but the environment you’re in? In this episode, Rox and Rich dive into The Cherry Tree Theory, a powerful way to reframe personal growth, self-sabotage, and why some people thrive while others feel stuck. They break down why self-blame keeps you trapped, how past experiences shape your ability to grow, and why the right environment is more important than just "trying harder." Instead of forcing yourself to change, what if you changed the conditions around you? Taking inspiration from Mother Nature herself they reveal five surprising steps for personal thriving: 1) Stop poisoning yourself 2) Heal your roots  3) Start pruning 4) Find new soil 5) Nurture your growth If you’ve ever felt stuck, like personal growth isn’t working, or like something invisible is holding you back—this episode might just change the way you see yourself forever.

This week, we are going to talk about why you are maybe not blooming and why it is wrong to blame yourself. We are going to have a cheeky little look into mother nature and learn some lessons about if we're not blooming, maybe we should stop blaming ourselves and actually look into our environment. Things like have we got root rot and are we getting the right nurture? It's a bit weird, but bear with us. This is Late Bloomers where we are getting our lives together. Eventually. We are really on brand this week.

We're all over the place talking about trees and nature. Late Bloomers, why are you not blooming? Ah, I love that. So if you don't mind, can I tell the cherry tree story? Yeah, okay. People are going to be like, what am I listening to? Just bear with us on this one guys. Makes sense. It does make sense, doesn't it? When we moved into our new house, we had a beautiful, well it wasn't beautiful actually, it had the potential to be beautiful cherry tree in the back garden, but it wasn't

blooming in the springtime. So what I didn't do was go up to the tree and be like, why aren't you blooming? You're useless. You're lazy. Here's a book on productivity. Yeah, that I don't think that would have worked. I don't think so. We had a chat. We looked up on Google, how do you fix a cherry tree? And we basically went through a load of systems. Is it being poisoned? Are there like funny leeches on it? Is the soil wrong? Like it was a checklist. And it was a really strange moment for me because I'm like, bro, we got to be doing this with humans. Rather than blaming ourselves, we need to look at the environment. So we now need to base our

existence on the cherry tree, which is now blooming, which is because we found these gross little leech things on it leech things down by the root. So it had like a sort of root rot, fix the root rot tree is now rocking it. So it had like a sort of root rot, fixed the root rot, tree is now rocking it. So although a strange start, if you think about us, we've actually changed a lot of our environment, haven't we? When you think about sobriety, therapy, new jobs. So we've really invested on changing the things that are around us. And it's probably fair to say that we're blooming.

I think so. Bloom and lovely. Bloom and great. Well, we run a business together and we were able for the first time for me to buy a house. My music's going well, the app is growing in its community. So, you know, everything's lovely and we've been really lucky, but those things are a result of environmental changes, not self-shaming or self-bullying. So do you think that we could break it down simply then, like what we've done in using the nature metaphor?

Do you mean into like five simple steps? Oh, look at that. Funny you mean into like five simple steps? Look at that. Funny you should. You got them written down on that card. I got them written down. Lovely. So I'm gonna tell you the five steps

and then we can just go through them and tell some little anecdotes about how that applied to us. Obviously it's gonna be different for every person but hopefully there's something in there. So here's the five steps. You ready? I'm ready. Number one, stop poisoning yourself.

Okay. Number two, heal your roots. Number three, start pruning. Number four, find new soil and number five, nurture your growth. I love it. Yeah. So we're now going to try and decipher what those mean, are we? We are. So number one, the most urgent one, stop poisoning yourself. So you have to make sure the tree hasn't got like acid rain on it.

Like gambling addictions, alcoholism, stuff like that. Am I on the right lines there? A hundred percent. Well done. Yes. So I was poisoning myself with drugs and alcohol, quite simply. You aren't going to bloom, you aren't going to find your greatest potential if you're blackout drunk every night.

And they're quite obvious, right? So you were drugs and alcohol, I was alcohol and gambling. We were both pretty reckless. So they were quite like glaringly obvious. Anybody sort of with a brain knows it will be very difficult to bloom and be successful when these things are happening. Emma Brown Well, right. Looking back, sure, there's no way my music career was going to take off when I was blackout drunk every night. But when I was in it, I didn't think that. I thought everything was fine. I just thought it was okay to do two bottles of wine a night. You probably didn't allow yourself to really reflect on your life though. You were just sort of in it on the treadmill weren't you?

That's true. There wasn't a lot of self-reflection and I didn't know another way. So yeah, the most important thing is to identify, are you actually poisoning yourself right now? Let's get to the emergency. Is it raining acid rain? And although it probably is easy to say, right, like we were poisoning ourselves with alcohol and gambling addiction and drug addiction, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not that easy. It's easy to say, so stop doing that. But like, it's not that easy when you're in it, is it? So that's, that's the whilst it be the first step, that could be quite a long road. I mean, for me, it was getting sober. And that's the hardest, longest and also best decision that I've ever made. I imagine it would be

definitely the same for you, but we're starting hard. Yeah, we are starting hard. I remember deciding to go sober. It felt like the hardest thing I'd, I was ever going to do in my entire life. But one day at a time, those days add up. And for some people, they might not resonate with that addiction, poisoning might not be a problem for them. So feel free to move to step two. However, it's also just made me think there's other ways you can also poison yourself with horrendous, horrible self-talk within your own head all the time. That's like a self poisoning. That's a horrible environment to live in. So it's addictions, horrible self-talk,

anything that's hurting and damaging yourself on a daily basis. Love it. I love step one. Step one, baby. Step two, heal your roots. Okay. I might need some, so I'm going to guess this is about past being roots. Am I, am I there? You're there. Okay. So what is that? So that's, I guess, therapeutic understanding why you are the way you are.

And some of the potentially trauma events, stuff like that. Yeah. So taking it back to the old tree analogy, you could do whatever you want to the bit of tree you can see. Water it, do the old miracle, grow, give it a prune. If it's got root rot, it ain't growing. No, it is not. So you can force yourself into a new exercise routine, you can read a productivity book. As a human being, you can force everything you can see to be different. But if you've got,

let's say trauma that you haven't dealt with in your roots, that is going to affect you for the rest of your life. So you did that, didn't you? When you were in active alcohol addiction, So you did that, didn't you? When you were in active alcohol addiction, you went on a quote, health kick in the gym. And although that would have helped, like it probably didn't tackle the underlying things. I was going to the gym, I was doing yoga, I was meditating. I was doing all of the actions of someone that was trying to get better and live healthily, but all of the shame and grief and pain and difficulties from my childhood were just being completely avoided. I sometimes feel like you can use a sort of health kit journey just

to avoid pain. Because actually going down in the roots is not pleasant, is it? Definitely not. It's not a nice experience. So I definitely see you as someone that did that. So after you got sober, you take away that coping mechanism and all the difficulties are going to come up and you really went through it with your abuse that you went through. Do you mind just like talking about that? Yeah, well, I thought that getting sober was going to be the hardest thing in the world. And it wasn't, it was being sober that was the hardest thing in the world. Because all of a sudden I had to face all of this stuff and why I was the way I

was. A horrendous anxiety came to the forefront of my existence. And I had to add two sort of bouts of therapy whilst talking about the childhood sexual abuse. And it was only when accepting that, integrating that, understanding it was the most important for me. It was like, oh, right, that's why I do these certain things. And then you can, you choose a different path. You act a certain way and it feels good and you carry on. So this is, this is another hard one. I guess none of these steps are

easy so far. No, they are quite difficult. But if you're talking about transforming your entire life, they probably are going to be tough. They're simple, but they're not easy. I think for me, I've been doing this for like five years. I've been doing therapy for many years and I'm still working on healing the roots that were quite rotten in me. A big one was the death of my mum, just having not grieved it at all, not knowing how to grieve, avoiding it for my whole life. So really having to grieve, which I'm still in the process of now. Yeah.

Still feel like it was last year. And I think for me, like with therapy, for both of us, the biggest thing, you may or not agree with this, but the biggest thing that I've realised and the skill that you really develop is self awareness. Like that's the thing for me. It's like, as soon as you start becoming self aware, you can really understand why you're being an asshole sometimes, or you react a certain way and why you fall out with people and, and actually for me, it was the level of immaturity that I had in me. And then you can sort of work from there.

100%. I think it also relates to, and everybody has this, whether it's traumatic or not, everyone has a family dynamic that will have left an imprint, a pattern on them. Some families are super close, encouraging and it might be a really good imprint. A lot of families, we're all human, they're going to fall short. Maybe you had someone that wasn't emotionally available, somebody that was angry, someone that was inconsistent, someone that was absent. That is going to rot the old roots. I know for me personally, I've spent so many years of my life trying to fix the relationship with my dad, rather than trying to fix the impact of what that relationship had on me, which is where I am now. But you have to recognise if something's a problem and walk head first into it and really unpack like what my dad being angry has done to me. Oh, well, I'm really scared

of anger. My mum staying with him for 20 years of affairs and me never seeing her angry. Oh, well, I'll tolerate abuse and always forgive. Like it's brutal stuff when you get down there. Sounds horrible. It is horrible. But when you recognise the pattern of what you've learned from your family of origin, that's when you can start to grow from it. Okay, lovely. Step three then. Start pruning baby. Snip snip.

Snip snip. So is this one quite self explanatory? So let me, so I guess understand who's not good for you in your life, like relationships, whether that be partner, friends, enemies, whoever like. You're doing very well. It's living with you. Isn't it? Maybe I'm rubbing off on you. Yeah, so start pruning. Um, I think that once you start going on a path of getting better, dealing with your own shortfalls, areas that you want to work on past trauma addictions, you are going to start to change as a person on a fundamental level.

And you won't want to put up with certain things anymore. So I can think back to best friends I had when I was drinking and doing drugs, like in it together, thick as thieves. I haven't spoken to them for five years. I can relate to that so hard. Because when I was drinking drinking I had loads of friends in brackets and I've got like none, well I've got a couple now that I would consider friends and it's not even their fault like it's and we haven't fallen out it's just I can't be in that environment and sadly when you become sober and you have a different lifestyle, you've got nothing in common.

That's what I found. Like with all the people that I used to hang around with, I just, what do I talk about now? What do we talk about? It's just, it's just awkward. Isn't it funny how often when human beings are like the worst version of themselves, they have the most friends. Yeah.

I had loads. I know, me too. And then you start getting better and end up with not many. I think as well as sobriety decisions, there's going to be decisions based on you starting to grow self-esteem and realizing old patterns. So for me, I was like deeply, deeply involved in like, fawn response and people pleasing. And I had loads of people around me that were just awful, taking advantage. And I was always like, see the best, see the good in them. Yeah, no, you have to protect yourself always. And that's, that's pruning as well. Are there relationships that might be toxic, abusive? those are quite strong words, just not healthy for you. I think we've got different experiences with this one, I think, because you definitely had people

in your life where it was just, it was a bad, horrible relationship where they were taking advantage and manipulating and stuff like that. Whereas me, there's just, there was loads of people in my life that through no fault of their own or my own, it's just that our paths went different ways. And I think that's important just to understand which one it is, because you don't want to like take on this, won't worry a badge and just cut, I'm cutting everyone out because I'm like on the sublime path. Like you see it on social media

all the time. It's just self-righteousness. It's not self-righteous. And that's the worst thing. And actually it can happen to a lot of us on the sobriety journey. It's like a rite of passage. You become a bit of a dick for a year, but you'll grow through it. But yeah. So basically are there people that you're spending lots of time with that are maybe leading you to bad habits? Could you limit time, change those? Are there family members that are like deeply hurting you? Do you need to limit time there?

Are there friends or work colleagues where it's become toxic or abusive? So start pruning, baby. You got to snip, snip, snip. Okay, go on then, what's next? Find new soil and new plant bed buddies. New soil. Am I new soil? Are you referring to me as mud that you put at the bottom of a tree? Nutrient rich horse shit. Lovely. So new soil is?

New people. Yeah, new soil, new partners, new friends, new jobs. Because after you've pruned all the ones that ain't good for you in the last step, you're going to have a bit of an empty life. Yeah. you in the last step, you're going to have a bit of an empty life. Yeah. So before I met you, I'd been celibate 18 months and then bang, here you are.

Bang, literally. But yeah, so you've pruned everyone. You're probably going to feel quite lonely. Probably going to be quite difficult, but you just have to have the belief that you're going to find your new little plant bed buddies. you just have to have the belief that you're going to find your new little plant bed buddies. It actually makes me smile because, you know, if someone was to say to me like, Rich, you have to go and make new friends. I'd be like, no, thank you. I will stay at home and watch TV. Thanks. But thinking of the last, well, since sobriety and since ADHD love and since doing all the things that we've been doing.

Everyone that I've met that I'm now friends with, they know, they've only ever met the new version of me. And they're so like, they're such awesome friendships. Like I think about Oscar, our literary agent, he's just like awesome. Max, who's doing this podcast, like legend. Joey and Danny. Joey and Danny. Yeah. Like we get together, have something to eat, speak about like real stuff.

And it's just, it's wholesome. Oh, you can't mention Joey and Danny and not say play board games. Oh yeah, sorry. And play board games. Yeah. It's amazing because people meet you as you are now. It's amazing because people meet you as you are now. But also just a note on that, that doesn't mean you have to lose all of your old friendships. So I've still got Kat Backs, who I've known for 15 years.

I've got Nicky, who I've known for 30. Nicky's part of the team as well now. 30, Nicky's part of the team. So some friendships will weather the storm of your own bad behaviours and struggles and go the distance and they're the real ones. Yeah, I've got a couple of them. I think you only need a couple of them. So yeah, you will find those new relationships, it just might take time, but you have to invest in the other stuff first. So go and find new horse shit in the form of humans.

That's it. That's good for you. Okay, lovely. And number five, this is probably like the simplest one, but it comes at the end for a reason. Cause if you only tried this one. Which is what you did. Which is what I did, it tried this one. Which is what you did. Which is what I did, it wouldn't work, which is nurture your growth.

So what's that? So like, look after yourself. Look after yourself. Essentially. So for a plant, is it getting enough sun and water? Well, we need enough sun. We need sun. Vitamin D. I've had moments in my life when I've thought I've been clinically depressed,

gone to the doctors, they've run blood tests and I've come back with low vitamin D. It's like everybody in the UK needs to take a vitamin D supplement or anywhere where it's not sunny every day. It makes a massive difference. And water, but other stuff too. I think there's some really simple things that are often overlooked in your wellness journey like sleep and food, bit of exercise. Right so let me just, okay so you've gone sleep, exercise, vitamin D, what else was there? Food, healthy eating. How's that going for you, stroke, us? So sleep, I do sleep really well.

Yeah. I'm like an eight hours a night. I used to have to take sleeping pills and drink red wine. I don't now. Yeah. Sleep is up. Exercise is out. I haven't exercised in so long. I know I should. We walk the dog

and get in a bit. Food is also out. I have moments when I'm cooking and we're having whole food and I feel so good. I feel like I've cured all of my ailments and then I order five guys. It's just tough. I think it's important to say that this last step is probably always going to be a step in life. We're human. It's like ongoing step. It's like water in your plants. This is maintenance. So all the other stuff you've done a big change. You got to do this, the forever fight to try and look after yourself. Yeah, sometimes you'll do well, sometimes you won't. You know, there's rare specimens that just live for it

and do well all the time. We are not those specimens. Something's wrong with him. That's childhood trauma, I'm kidding. But obviously that's, you know, the simple physical nurturing, like sleep, trying to eat well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's also sort of emotional, mental health stuff that I think we do do really well, which is amazing communications in your close relationships, really trying not to self-blame, self-shame,

showing self-compassion. Like, I think we are incredibly nurturing on the emotional side. I think we do mess up a bit on the old physical side. Yeah, but I like the idea that it's maintenance rather than a defines because you're never going to have completed it. You can get sober and then you're sober as long as you don't drink again, you're still sober. Whereas this, you need all the time to maintain. And that's okay. We're always going to be trying and then you get a dog and he's waking you up at 4am and suddenly sleep is... Oh man, we've got a dog. We have got a dog. He's being quiet right now.

He is, yeah. I don't know how or why. Which is good. So just to like take it back to the old cherry tree in the garden. When we found out it had, I can't remember what it was, some kind of slug. Yeah, I can't remember. And it was disgusting and it was like feeding off it and it was causing rot and it was causing it to like bleed. And you took all those off and we had to, you built the little rock thing around it. And now not only does it bloom in spring, it had another bloom. We found out it was a double blooming tree.

It bloomed in November. It's like a rare cherry tree. And we would never have known that. So there's something else in that as well, which is you might think that if you do all of this stuff, you might have an idea of like your best life. What about if it's double, triple? Like what about if it's so much better? Because there's no way you or I thought on the day that we both got sober, stopped poisoning ourselves, step one, that we would end up here in this kind of relationship with this kind of family doing this kind of job. God no, no way.

Like they say to you in recovery, you'll live a life beyond your wildest dreams. And I always used to think that meant my dreams will come true. But it's beyond. You didn't know what your dreams were. You don't even have the audacity to dream them and then you start going through this process. So yeah, I really hope people listening to this episode haven't thought that So yeah, I really hope people listening to this episode haven't thought that we're really, really, really weird. Well, even if they do think that, I reckon, like I was a bit dubious with this as a topic, but I think it's worked. Like it makes sense. And I think it can knock you out of the obsession with if you're not

having the most healthy relationship or you're not really finding success at work, rather than going, what's wrong with me? What do I need to fix in me? What book do I need? What self-punishment do I need to inflict? Stop trying to change yourself and start trying to change your environment. And when you change your environment, oh my gosh. Love it. And on that note, that's probably enough nature talk. That's enough nature talk. If you have enjoyed our slightly wonky episode, please like, subscribe, leave a review. And if you didn't, just move on by. Have a lovely, lovely life. Thank you so much and we shall see you next week.