LATE BLOOMERS - THE ROUTINE PARADOX: Why autistic brains feel safe with structure and ADHD brains feel trapped by it

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

Why does autism crave routine… while ADHD resists it? In this episode, we unpack the tension between structure and novelty — from airport plans and to-do lists to brushing your teeth and avoiding life via a “productive” bath. One brain feels safe with certainty. The other feels trapped by it.We talk about autistic anxiety, ADHD dopamine, executive dysfunction, and the shame of not sticking to routines — especially when you desperately want to.Most importantly, we share what’s actually helped us: anchors instead of strict schedules, flexibility inside structure, and how to build a life that works for both brains. 💛20% off Loop Earplugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/pages/lp-adhdlove

Why do autistic people love routine and why do ADHD people hate it? We're going to try and figure that out today in the routine paradox. Welcome to the late bloomer's podcast where we are getting our lives together. Eventually, brought to you by our amazing sponsors, Loop Earplugs. Don't think it's fair to say. AdHD people hate routine. Like disclaimer. Because I would love if I loved routine, I'd,

I try and start new routines all the time. I'm just terrible at it. Well, no, I don't think it's you would love if you love routines. I do think you love routines. You just have an inability to stick to routines. You need it. You have a desperate need for routine, but just can't do it. Brutal.

So do you want to tell us why as a gorgeous autistic man? I don't know about gorgeous. I do. Why do you love routines so much? Yeah, okay. So there's three points mainly, but let me just caveat the whole thing with, I just feel, oh, it's so, like, is everything.

Routine is everything. Like, we've been starting this year. We've been going a couple of months now. And we've got a really good routine in the mornings and I love it so deeply. So just going to start there. Point number one for me, it reduces uncertainty and anxiety. So I feel safe.

I know what's happening. And this could put it into perspective around why like it impacts me so bad with change. It's not necessarily just I hate change. It's more that I love routine and plans. knowing what's going to happen. That makes so much sense. So it's not, I can't stand this change of plan. It's I loved the plan I had.

Please don't mess with it. Yeah. When you say reduces anxiety, what does that mean? Is it like if you didn't have a plan for the day, would you feel anxious? Like where does the anxiety show up for you? Well, so when you say I don't have a plan for the day, that doesn't mean there needs to be activities planned out. Like my plan could be to do nothing.

Like it could be to watch TV. But yeah, like I, it is an anxious feeling. I guess I like to be in control of my environment. And I'm sure many people will relate to that. And then when I feel out of control, it brings anxiety. I'm not saying I would be scared if you said, babe, can we walk left? We usually walk right.

Like it's not that. It's just like, yeah, I just like to know the plan is there and just, oh, Jeff's kiss. That's what it is, basically. It also saves mental energy and decision making. So like when there's a plan, you don't need to think about that. Like you need to think obviously throughout the day as all humans do But you don't need to think about that

You know what you're doing So my actual what I think about then Is whether the plan is coming together Like I actively think about that Like if we're travelling for example I will have a plan and routine in place All the steps And there will be a number of steps

And it'll be like right step one we're in the car Step two is parking step three is checking in step four and i'll be ticking them off i'm like yes yes yes yes all the way how did we ever think you were you know difficult what's funny is if you don't mind me saying sometimes this intricate step plan that you have in your head you don't communicate with the others around you so if we deviate from the plan that you need to go 100% according to plan but we don't know the plan, you will get quite stressed. I will fully accept that as my toxic trait.

Like I can have a full blown plan in my head, not communicate it, and then have the hump when someone changes the plan that they didn't know existed. Like that is a thing. I will work on that. So we get to the airport and I say, and we were going to check in and I say, oh, actually, can we go and get a coffee before we start? it will rock your world. Yeah.

And actually that's happened in real life. Not necessarily with coffee, but it'll be like, can we look around a few shops? I'm like, that wasn't in my head as to what we were doing. We were going straight to the lounge

or wherever we were going to go or we were going to this place for dinner. Like, what, why are we doing this? We don't need anything. Why are we shopping? Like, yeah. And what was that point? What was your point to?

Saves mental energy and decision making. Yeah, I can understand. understand that because I live as someone that's constantly making decisions, then thinking it's the wrong decision, going back and forth, flip-flopping, it's exhausting. So the thought of just saying, here's the plan and we're going to stick to it, I can see that that saves energy. And when you're neurodivergent, you often spend so much energy kind of trying to blend in and get through adult life, that where you can save a micro bit of energy, you should. So I can concede. Well, it's not really a competition.

It's interesting because, you know, like we said, I think you do like a plan and routine. You just, your brain doesn't let you do it. And then, you know, the final one, it just, it creates predictability. Like there's no surprises. I'm not one for surprises, really, to be honest with you. I know, I know what I like. I know I like to know what's coming.

You've made it so clear to me because I'm quite a big, I like buying gifts and organizing things for people and making people feel really loved special. Yeah. So we had to have some quite serious conversations about never throwing you a surprise birthday party. Yeah. And never doing anything that I might see is, how loved you are. That would just be horrendous for you. It's similar for me though.

If I'm ever planning something, I don't know if you've noticed, if I have a plan for us to do something nice, I'm so crap at not telling you. Like, I'll tell you in advance. And you'd probably prefer it to be a surprise. But, like, I can't. And like, that's me projecting onto you, like, what I would prefer. All humans do that, though.

I think that's why we get in trouble in relationships. We treat the other person how we want to be loved. They don't feel loved and we get our backup. Whereas actually, if I like surprise, and gifts and surprise parties, I can ask you to do that. Yeah. And if you don't like those things

and you want to know where we're going or what present you're getting, I can do that for you. Yeah. Although you didn't tell me my birthday present. You kind of knew. I guessed, I think. Come on.

Yeah. Right. Okay. So I think I'm kind of understanding a little bit why you love routines. It makes it. I can really listen to that

and go, yeah, like, I'm down with that, however. ADHD is find routines really hard. I don't even want to say hate routines because I genuinely think most of us are so desperate to have a routine for self-care or the morning are for work and for whatever reason you really struggle. So my first point is the novelty and dopamine of a routine. wears off really quickly.

Yeah. So I'm actually amazing at doing a routine for a few days, a couple of weeks, at a stretch. And I will feel like, I don't know, so incredible. My brain is kind of firing fireworks and I'm like, I'm smashing it. This routine is everything. It's going to save my life. Let's just say it's getting up in the morning. at the same time and having my multivitamins.

And I'll do it for a couple of weeks. And then that novelty wears off. And suddenly there is zero motivation to do it. And that happens every single time I've started any kind of routine, exercise, eating, writing at work, every single time I will. fail. I wonder if routine is the right word to use for you because, you know, I don't, I'm not challenging it because I agree with everything you're saying, but it confuses my brain a bit when you're like, I'm good at a routine for, let's say, a week. In my mind, it's like,

that's not a routine then. That's just trying something new for a week. But when does it become a routine? Do you know what I mean? No, that's so true. So I'm not good at routines. So it's just, yeah, just if that might be easier for you to understand, like, I'm just not good at routines, I'll try something new and I'll feel great. Wow. No, that's blown my mind. So actually, I'm never good at routines. And even if I last a few days, that's because I'm very good at trying something new. Yeah.

But that could, you could flip the script on that and turn it into a bit of a hack. Well, listen, I don't want to blow my own trumpet over here for the first time in my. my life, I am consistently working out. And I have been since August. And that is many months ago. And it's because we started going to CrossFit and it's different every single day. It's different every single day. And it plays into this competition. It's competitive. It's competitive. I mean, I come last every day. So I don't know what competition I'm in. But it's different every day. And there's loads of people around you. so maybe that's the thing.

You need to find routines that change every day. Something new in the routines. There's something in it. There's something in it. But yeah, so basically I'm never good at routines. I'm only good when something is new. And that can be something I love,

like skincare. I get all my, like, lovely skincare. I do it every day for a few days. And then boom, I'm back to sleeping in my makeup. Because I'm good at trying something new. That's why I always need to buy new things. think it can be really damaging to ADHD people as well because there's like shame attached to it as

well when you don't stick to the routine. It's like I failed. A hundred percent. Well, my second point is genuine executive dysfunction challenges that make sticking to the same thing really difficult. So let's take something that is considered very simple and a basic task cleaning your teeth in the morning. which is something that I have struggled with for my entire life. And not a lot of people will understand. And some people probably think that is so gross. I have really tried my best.

And sometimes I get a really good spell. And other times I don't. I'm 41. So I've kind of come to accept that. But every time I've tried to do it, I'm like, I'm really going to do it. I'm going to take care of my teeth every morning. after my coffee, then I do my teeth, and then I fail.

It just brings up that shame that I'm so used to, which is, I'm not a very good adult, I'm a bad person, I'm lazy. Yeah. And like, look, normally I would be like, don't worry about it if it's a routine, but cleaning your teeth every day is probably something that you would want to do every day. Like, and there's huge benefits to that. I would love that routine. When I am doing it every day or, God forbid, twice a day, I am really happy with myself.

I don't know what the answer is because I'm thinking, well, how do we inject something new for cleaning teeth? And I just don't know. I don't know what it would be. Different toothpaste flavors every day, like a roulette where you never know it's coming out, different types of tooth. I don't know. No. I don't know. And then my final thing, which is very real, which is like,

resistance to feeling controlled. Oh, God. Even if that control is by me and something I want to do. Like PDA, I think you mean. Kind of. But it's not even like you could say to me, we need to do the washing up. And I'd be like, oh, no, don't tell what I just do,

don't want to do that now. But if it's me going, I really want to clean my teeth every morning. And then I wake up and go, nope, I don't want to listen to you, which is me. even though you want it, which is what I want. It's a really confusing experience, the desire to never, ever, ever be controlled. Even if that control brings about a really, really good consequence that I am desperate for, my desire to not be controlled or boxed in is very, very strong.

I've got literally nothing to say to that. I'm like bewildered. but like it's fascinating, but I can't comprehend the notion that you would want to defy yourself. Like, do you what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's mind-blowing. It's defying the plan because the plan is forcing me into a structure and I don't like structure. Which you made, though. Yeah.

Yeah. I love it. Defy your own plan. Yeah. They'll definitely. be a psychological hack for that. I don't know what it is, but I'm going to think about it. Yeah, if you find it, I'll let you know.

Let me know. Yeah. Because the only thing I've come up with, and I do think this is very real with ADHD, my plan for the next 10 minutes is what I get to plan. So I can be like, oh, I think I'm going to do that piece of work now and I can go and do it. But it's if I'm planning in advance, I'm writing a to-do list for the whole day, or I'm planning today, yesterday, by the time that time lapse has gone, I'm like, no.

Yeah. I feel controlled. Wow. So interesting. So interesting. I'm just going to take a little break to talk about our amazing sponsor. I'm so excited to talk to you about Loop Earplugs, who are the sponsor of the late Blumers podcast. Loop Earplugs are something that Rich and I use probably every day, definitely every time that we leave the house.

They have a range of different earplugs. available for different things that you're getting up to, whether that is taking a nap and I do some work or going to a rock concert. They're absolutely amazing and it really helps with those neurodivergent sound sensitivities. And we've got our own website with Luke where our listeners can get 20% off. So go to the show notes or the links on our bio and enjoy. Right. We spoke about why it's different for both of us. But can we now talk about where it shows up in real life? yeah maybe we do work

food and self-care because I feel like those are three areas where we are very different yeah and work is interesting because we literally work together on everything we do yeah so sure

let's talk about routines at work and how we are different. Yeah. How do you approach your workday? Well, if I haven't got like a to-do list written, I don't, I feel out of control. I'm like, I can't get my brain to what it is that I need to do.

And then I'm thinking about things like a book writing. It needs to be sort of really planned in, structured days when that's going to happen. Yeah. And we have a different working way, don't we? It's the nicest way of putting it. And it really does take some, it takes some getting used to,

and takes some understanding, and it also can cause quite a lot of anxiety, probably for both people. Yeah. So you want a very, very structured to-do list that we go through and tick off together. I want to just sort of vibe into what I feel like doing that day, whilst also avoiding the most important thing that I'm meant to be doing.

Yeah. I remember, right, before you even knew you were ADHD, this is so amazing when I think back, when we were first together, and I'm talking in the first month, I would ask you like how would you describe your working or what your struggles and you literally said to me word for word I'm always doing something but it's the opposite of what I should be doing and that was before ADHD that's before everything that is it's crazy how clear that is.

I feel like that should be the title of my autobiography. A bit long. Always doing something, but it's not what I'm mentioning. That is the story of my life. And by the way, people try and hack it or just do something you love, no. Because eventually if the thing you love becomes the thing you're meant to be doing, you won't want to do that either. Yeah.

And that has hit me so hard in so many areas. Because in life, you have to do some things that you maybe don't. want to do. You have to work hard. You have to be consistent if you're doing a podcast or have a music career. And it's really hard because all I want to do is go and start something else. So how the hell do we get through it then? I'm just thinking like legit question. And like in my mind, it's like, have I become less rigid and you've become more? Like have we just made adaptations? I think so. I don't think we would have made it through. Otherwise, because of how much we work together and how different we are.

And I think both people have bought their skills because I constantly need new things and it'll constantly be distracted ADHD love videos became the W app, became the late bloomer's podcast, became the books. And because you have to have structure and routine, all of those ideas actually came with a to-do list that we got through and they all launched. Well, also, I was just thinking about a way that you've adapted, maybe, and this is, I think, a good example. When we were, you know, a couple of years ago,

we would film a video every day, which meant you would need to get ready every day. I would be the one being like we need to film a video and some of the looks that were on your face, just like, no, please, no, please. It's like I was torturing you. whereas now we book in a day. So it's like you do need to sacrifice that day

and your energy is on the floor by the end of it where we do all of our videos, but it gives you a lot more freedom to do other vibey stuff. Which is a routine, a condensed routine. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I can't do a routine every day,

but I'll give you one day a week. There you go. Compromising. Okay. Then number two, where the difference shows up is food. You could literally eat the same thing every day. I saw a video about this yesterday,

and I think this is going to validate me because somebody who says, yeah, I can eat the same thing every day. You could be like, that's a bit weird. Like, why would you do that to yourself? But the reason that I would do it is because, like, I would know calories, I would know macronutrients, I would know everything. Yeah, it's a bit boring, but you think about our dog. We care about it and we care about his health,

who care about his wellbeing, and we feed him the same thing for probably 10 years every day. But that made me think, oh, maybe I am, maybe there is something in it. I mean, you get to do it your way for sure. I just know that when we've tried to eat the same diet together, we've struggled because I've been good at new things and done it for a few days and then just been so desperately bored and in need of change. It's so interesting with you.

Again, it's that time saving. You are working out macronutrients and stuff at the moment because of the CrossFit height. So if you eat the same thing every day, you know, so it's less cognitive load. So again, you're being very efficient in your life. and I'm being very inefficient, just chasing the new thing. Yours would be considered the norm, though. Mine wouldn't. Yeah, having a varied diet, I think, though, that I also vary my number of meals. So I think the norm would be three meals a day.

I could eat three. I could eat one. I did that yesterday, forgot to eat. Yeah. You're like, have you eaten today? I was like, hands shaking. I'm actually really hungry. So I don't know. It's again, there's probably this like balanced thing in between us. But we get around it by we don't always eat the same thing now. Yeah. And I will maybe have a little snacky drawer for when I do want to, you know, taste something lovely.

A little popcorn drawer. Oh, so good. So good. Okay. And the number three, I kind of already touched on it with the teeth cleaning, but self-care. You know, when we met, you showered every day at the same time, cleaned your teeth. every day at the same time and I didn't and it was like glare at it when you live with someone and your routines are so different it's so scary and illuminating but like this person is so clean

and getting up the same time every day as well isn't it I think I've definitely swung here though I've rubbed off on you yeah I think I've caught a bit of your ADHD maybe for this because I'm so inconsistent but I know that I would I would like a routine because I always feel great it's just I can't maybe it's like the transition from being employed to self-employed it's like difficult to know because obviously a lot of this a lot of the benefit of being employed a lot of this was taken out of my hands I need to leave it a certain time which I need to have a shower like I have to do it so actually you had such a strict routine in the bank that you were able to stack that routine with teeth shower and wake up time.

Whereas now you don't have that. And actually you've come unraveled a bit. Yeah. And I'm like just walking around not knowing what to do. It's so funny because you can go days without a shower now. And I'm the one having more regular baths. Wait, what are we like fraudulent? What are we even saying on this bit of the podcast?

Because it has. It's like switched. You're buffing every day. I've never done that. I think it's your. it's your special place though, your bathroom, isn't it? Love is where I switch off and run away from whatever I'm meant to be doing. Like, I'm going to have a bath.

I'm cleaning myself, therefore technically cleaning. That's such a good point because you definitely do sometimes use it to not do maybe what your men are being doing. So I think this is like an ultimate ADHD hack to get out of life. You can't say I'm going to go upstairs and scroll on my phone. no one's going to let you get away with that. But you can say, I'm going to go and have a bath. Where you scroll on your phone? Yeah.

Oh my God, it's genius. Technically, it's a task. Adults would look at you and go, yeah, well done, living well. And I get to go and laugh at my back, scroll on my phone. And I just need to wonder why the baths are taking an hour and a half. And I'll pay the price of a quick clean. I'll wash my, as I'm in there, I'll do it. But why am I really there?

I'm avoiding adult life. Oh, my God. We're just, there's exposure. You are being exposed on this episode of late bloomers. I'm happy with it. So listen, we obviously live together and we have made it work. And I want to talk about how, like some things we've done that have actually helped us. And I also just want to take a moment of intense love and support for any of our listeners that are all DHD.

because so many of our combos is like the ADHD perspective, the autistic perspective, how different they are, how we make it work. They have to make it work in their own heads. Yeah, I know. So just a moment of reverence for you guys. Thanks for being with us. It's like having me and you in your brain at once stressful.

So look, here's four cheeky little things that have helped us. Maybe it would help others. Number one, have anchors instead of, strict schedules. So to talk about CrossFit in the morning and why I'm finally able to go and work out, I know my anchor is we need to leave at 10 past 9. Yeah. I could wake up at half seven. I could wake up at 5 to 9. What I choose to do with my morning, have coffee, lay in bed, doom scrolling, have a shower, get ready, don't wake up last minute. I I still have freedom all around, but there is this anchor that is, if you're coming to CrossFit,

we leave at 10 past nine. You get your routine because there is that anchor every morning, CrossFit. And I get to still kind of mess around that anchor. I like it. Yeah. Because if it was every day, half seven, wake up, coffee. I would really struggle. Yeah.

This like flexibility around. that one thing, which... Fascinating. I just love. Number two is make routines opt-in, not enforced. You do so well. I keep talking about CrossFit, but it's the one thing I've stuck to for many months,

and it surprises me. You never, ever, ever pressure me to go to CrossFit. And there are some days when I will go, I'm actually really tired. I don't think I want to go to there. I need a rest day. There is no, I don't know, like, I don't have to go every day. We haven't agreed to that.

I haven't agreed to stick to a rigid routine. It's like, I'm going to try to go, and it's opt in. And most days, I do choose. There's been a couple you haven't. But I don't mind. And you don't mind if I go without you either. Like it's both ways. I love it.

If you go without me and you still stick to your routine, I can be really proud of you and have my time off. Like it. So this is kind of a way to have a very light, flexible routine. Yeah. For an ADHDer. Number three is never, ever having guilt or shame when routines are flexible. Mm-hmm.

I think for ADHD people, that is so key because, yes, we desperately need anchors. We need moments to structure around. But we can't be overly routine. overly structured, we're going to fail and then feel awful. So if I say I'm committing to eating whole food for the week, and then on Thursday I'm like, oh, I need to have a cheeky Maltese's. Yeah, and I think that's just reframing it,

rather than you've failed your routine. You tried something new, and I'll maybe try something new again, no pressure, whenever you want. That's it. Constantly allowing ADHD is to try. something new within the same bracket. Yeah.

And that kind of gets you, I'm then on your level. We are doing a routine together. I'm just a little more wobbly than you. And the final one is no matter what you're doing, consider both of the brains in that system or for the OD HD is consider both parts of you. So cool. The autistic part has that need for structure.

and routine. The ADHD part doesn't want to feel controlled, needs flexibility, needs novelty. So when you're thinking about those daily things, how can you combine it together? How can you have a little bit of flexibility within something that you are going to do? Yeah.

So it might be, rather than we're going to do this every day at 10 a.m., it's in the morning we're going to try and do this. I like it. And even like I think about when we were on holiday and we went for a coffee in the morning. But it would be like the routine would be like, we're leaving it this time to go for a coffee.

The flexibility is we'll just wander around and then decide where we want to go. So there's like flexibility inside the routine. Ah, that's gorgeous. We're going out for coffee at half nine and we'll wander around and whatever takes you fancy. That's kind of satisfying both, isn't it? Wow, this has been the routines paradox.

let us know how do you feel about routines whose side are you on or are you caught somewhere in the middle thank you so much for hanging out with us give us a like share follow all of that gorgeous stuff and we will see you next week