LATE BLOOMERS - UNLEARNING NORMAL: 10 rules that punish ADHD & autistic brains

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox talk about what it really means to unlearn normal after growing up ADHD and autistic in a world built around rules that were never designed for their brains. They reflect on the expectations they were taught to follow — around discipline, behaviour, productivity, emotional control, and “trying harder” — and how those rules quietly shaped their sense of self.They break down the rules they internalised growing up: being told to sit still, cope quietly, make eye contact, push through discomfort, and behave “appropriately.” Rules that were framed as character-building, but instead led to masking, shame, burnout, and the belief that something was fundamentally wrong with them.This episode is about recognising those rules for what they were, questioning whether they ever deserved authority in the first place, and beginning the process of letting them go. Not to become someone new — but to finally stop forcing themselves to be someone they were never meant to be.20% off Loop Earplugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/pages/lp-adhdlove

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If you are ADHD or autistic, growing up in a neurotypical world has probably done a lot of damage. In this episode, we are going to talk about how important it is to unlearn normal so that you can find your own way to do things. Welcome to late bloomers where we are getting our lives together. Eventually, brought to you by our amazing sponsor, Loop Earplugs. You're ready to talk about the damage that's been done? Yeah. Yeah. And like what the normal social rules?

I love that the autistic one goes to the social rules. Yeah. But yeah. So I think it would be fun if we do 10. Yeah. You'll like this system. Yeah. I like it already, to be honest.

We'll do 10. I'll do five. You'll do five. Yeah. But we'll do one each. So we're going to go ADHD, ADHD. Adhism. ADHD, autism.

Just flicking. between the neurotypes. That's it. I love it. Let's do it. Do you want to go first? Yes. So we're going to talk about the 10 rules that have messed us all up the most and possibly could be messing up our beautiful listeners.

Rule number one is that discipline is what gets things done. Okay. This is obviously an ADHD. Yeah. Because you probably agree with it. You literally said it and I was like, well, yeah, obviously. Okay, so this isn't even a neurotypical view. It's a non-AD rule.

And here is the problem with that discipline isn't an amazing motivator for people with ADHD. We were often disciplined at school or at home and continued to make the same mistakes because those mistakes are actually part of our wiring, our makeup. What encourages people with ADHD, as we know, is interest, urgency, novelty. So it's someone looking at me and saying she's undisciplined. She's never going to achieve anything. And what, just so I'm really clear, what do you mean when you say, like discipline.

Like what is it that it would be easy for me to understand? So trying to clean my teeth every day. Right. Like routine, structure, discipline, like that sort of thing. Yeah. Or staying in the same job, getting up at the same time every day, putting in the same hours every day, going to the gym every day and doing the same thing.

Like a sort of, it actually sounds like a dream for you. Structured routine every day. doing the same thing and that gets called discipline. Whereas someone that kind of comes in and out has these huge bursts of energy and then drifts off. That isn't called discipline. That's looked at as a lack of willpower or laziness. But actually, you can achieve loads the wonky way. I was just about to say you've, I've heard you refer to it in the past as like wonky discipline. Like you can do three days worth of work in a day, but then need to lie down. for a day. So writing a book is a classic example. The outside world would look in if you need to

write a book and actually a lot of writing advice, wake up every morning and write 250 words. And then you'll have written a book. Awesome. I love that for you. And I'm really glad that works for you. What works for me is ignore it for a few weeks, knowing that I have to do it. Ignore it to the point where it's getting really serious and I'm about to miss a deadline and then not come up for air for a week. Yeah. And write three chapters in a week and then go back to waiting and then go back to it. And it can just apply to so much stuff, wonky discipline. So yeah, let's not judge ADHD as for having a sort of a different discipline. The internalised belief that this rule gives ADHD people is I don't have any willpower.

Yeah. And you can obviously see that does a lot of damage. If you walk around thinking you don't have willpower, you won't think you'll be able to stick to an amazing relationship or eat well or launch a creative dream. Well, actually, you just have wonky willpower and that's fine. Wonky willpower. Love it.

Okay. Lovely. Good start. Number two, so through the autistic lens. the concept that social rules are obvious. So what I mean by that is being able to read between the lines or knowing unspoken expectations or reading subtext and stuff.

Like I struggle with this so hard, like so hard. Like just tell me, tell me what you want me to do. Tell me what the rules are and then I'll like do. And it's and it's tough because when society says, oh, you should have known, why should I have known? You feel like you're like just socially broken. Like you just don't know what to do. You're clueless. But I don't feel like that at home anymore because I will say, I don't know.

Well, you won't do it to me actually. You won't act in a certain way hoping that I'll pick up on things. You'll just tell me. Not in the last year, but for the many years before that I did, it makes me feel so proud of you for vocalising this. And it also makes me feel quite a lot of remorse. Why? Because I can just remember times when I've expected you to just know what was wrong with me or why something upset me or why you needed to be more friendly in a situation. I just think, oh my gosh, I've literally just, I've been the damaging one.

But it's why it's so great to talk about, you know, for you, if you were to go on a Zoom call and somebody went, we're going to Small Talk for two minutes where anything is available from your weekend, you don't really need to care about it, but kind of nod and agree, then we'll start talking about work. Yeah. You would be fine with Small Talk. I would be fine with that. what you struggle with is knowing how to transition in and out smoothly.

And when... I don't do it smoothly there, do I? You just get small talks over now. I'd like to start talking about work. Or if you're not on the call, if it's just me, and I know you're not like the biggest fan of small talks. So I don't know why this is even a thing. But if you're not on the call, I'd be like, right, let's get down to business.

Like, I might say hello, but that would be it. I love that hello might be said. Like it could just be like, right, so on the agenda, I love that for you. But it's the same as like, I'm digressing a bit now, but like emails and stuff as well, the whole hope you had a good weekend. Like I don't. Like I don't, like I, I, I'm not saying I wish they had a bad weekend, but what, I hope you had a good weekend.

I have no hope in my body that they had a weekend. I'm not thinking about, I wonder if they had a good weekend or not. It's just disingenuous. It's not real. It's crap. I do tend to agree with you. But the people pleaser in me is, of course, screaming. But wait, just can I hear me out?

I'm sorry to dwell on this. I hope you had a good weekend. But imagine it. Someone said to me, I hope you had a good weekend. And I challenged it. Like, do you hope that are you at? actually hopeful? Are you at home thinking, I really hope that Rich is having a good weekend? Like, it's just not accurate. It's not true. So part of the autistic spectrum is taking things

literally. So I think this is a perfect example. So I think it's just said as a kind of social nicety. I don't think they are on their knees going, I really hope Richard had a lovely weekend. it's more just a soft opener that says I'm human. I appreciate that you're human. Right, let's get down to business. Okay, fine. Look, I understand the words that you're saying, but I know they're human.

They know I'm human. So it's just not needed. You're not wrong. Yeah. You're not wrong. Number three, back to through the ADHD lens. If it really mattered, you would remember. Oh. Oh.

This is of course about birthdays, anniversaries, replying to texts, coming home for a special dinner, doing the wear again pile that you've promised you're going to do every day. And here's the issue. And by the way, this is nuanced and we're going to have a convo about it because I know how much I can grind your gears with forgetting to do the wear again shelf. And that is fine. You are so entitled to have gears ground.

but if it mattered you'd remember is moralising memory and it's saying if you have a bad memory you don't care you're not a nice person ADHD people struggle with working memory we can forget what we're saying mid-sentence that's why we might forget a birthday or a weekend plan or to go back to the text, it isn't done on purpose. It causes a huge amount of shame and guilt and self-hatred when you're forgetting things to people that like mean the absolute world to you. And the story that people then write is you don't care, you're indifferent. And we then get this internalized belief, which is, I don't care about the people I love. I'm an awful person, sorry, it's me hamming on this now because I just can't put it down. Now I'm on my soapbox.

Do you think people would do it on purpose, lose their phone, lose where they've put really important things? I lost the letter, the letter that my mum wrote to me after she had died. I lost that somewhere in my 20s. Do you think we'd do it on purpose? Like it hurts. It really hurts. I feel remorse for this one, you know, like you said in the last one. Because, well, no, and I've got a challenge as well. But it nearly broke us up at the beginning of our relationship. Your memory could have ended our relationship. That's crazy.

It's true, though, isn't it? I feel really guilty and bad about that now. But that was pre- ADHD. And society tells us if, an anniversary or a birthday isn't remembered or dinner or plans or whatever, then that's an act that that person doesn't care about you. So it's not like, it's not,

I'm not even saying it's people's fault because it's what's been drummed into everyone from day dot. But the fact that you could think that I don't care about you, that makes me sad. Yeah. But my memory, a floppy, wonky, wobbly, rubbish, silly memory has let things drop through it.

and made my number one person. I don't think that now, though. That was in the new days of our relationship. I think the good thing now is you see me forgetting everything all the time. Yeah. So it's like, oh, right. Like this person does actually have legitimate, quite serious memories. Can I hit you with my challenge, though?

Is that all I'm getting on the nice bit? Yeah. Okay. The where again shelf. Yeah. I'm not accepting that as a memory. You can't be forgetting about it because as it, like, you can't not see it when you walk into a room.

So that is, that is an executive dysfunction thing. That is not a memory thing. Okay. Can I challenge your challenge? Sure. Sometimes, yes, it's, I can't get the energy to start. Yeah. Sometimes it is forgetting.

So the other day, you said, please can you do your wear again shelf? I said, yep. And I went upstairs to do it. By the time I'd got to the top of the stairs. I'd forgotten. I got ready, came down, pat my bad, left to go to the train station, and then thought, oh my God, I've forgotten the where again shelf. And then when I got back from London, I had to then run upstairs and I said,

don't look, don't look, and I had to do it. So it's a combat. I'm not saying it's every time. I don't want to be the person that's like, oh, I've forgotten to do any of my chores. That's not the vibe, but. Yeah, okay. Fine. Number four, nice and easy, simple one,

but it's equally as ridiculous in my mind. Eye contact equals respect. Like, why? Why do I have to stare into your eyes when I'm talking to you? It's well awkward. It makes me uncomfortable. It's so horrendous. So why is that maintain good eye contact?

Does you mean good eye contact? Why is there even a good? or a bad in eye contact. I love having you on team neurodivergent because you are so passionate and crystal clear and you've got no people please the tendencies to you just say it like it is and I love it. I think eye contact is all weird things about like being polite

and showing respect and showing that you're listening and engaged with someone. I don't know. I've changed my thing though right so I because it is always politeness and it's a good eye contact you can internalise it that you are rude or weird but I'm flipping it I'm like no you're weird and making me stare into your eyes like it's just not it's not a thing that should exist do you do you know when I notice it most of you and this is So funny to me. It's on Zooms when we're doing Zoom meetings. Neuropypical people will tend to try and like look like it's so ingrained. They'll be looking at the faces of the people on the screen because they're trying to give eye contact through a screen which you obviously can't do. That's how ingrained they're looking at the faces to engage. You just look over here.

for any of our audio listeners, I'm turning my head to the right and just staring off into the distance. And you'll just chat away, staring off into the right. And you are calm, confident, engaging. It just makes me giggle when I see you doing it. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. I think that's strange though. Like that makes me question because I don't think I would look, I know, maybe I do look away. when it's real life rather than Zoom. Not with you, but probably I do, don't I? Probably, yeah.

You're always looking off, looking up, looking left, looking right. Hmm. Is that when I'm talking or listening or both? I'm not sure. Let's keep an eye out. I've forgotten. Right, move on. Eye contact's ridiculous.

It shouldn't be a role. Number five through the ADHD lens. if you were serious about it, you'd stick with it. Oh. So it's another one that I'm like. Yeah. Yeah. There's, yeah.

So there's kind of micro and macro reasons why this does so much damage. So the micro reason in your day to day life is losing momentum. So let's go back to me writing the book. and taking weeks off, you were really serious about writing that book. You'd stick with it and write every day. No, silly billy. I am serious about it.

I think about it all the time. I obsess about it. I'm constantly anxious about it. And when I go to write it, you won't see me for days. I don't speak to anyone. I won't eat. So I'm very serious with it.

My sticking with it just looks different. So that's very much. are like sticking with one project that's on your plate right now, whether that's a job, creative thing you're doing, going to the gym, stick with it every day. Micro, macro level is your life in general,

how you chose to enter the job market. Yeah. And the jobs that you've had. So I have worked as a checkout girl. I've worked in a pub, in a clothes shop, for a magazine, for a cancer research charity, trained to be an accountant, worked as an assistant sales trader, worked in a pub. Did I say that already? It's a different pub.

A lot. You've had a lot of jobs. Been an admin assistant, been a graphic designer. You've been an admin assistant. Yes. What? Didn't last. I'm sure it didn't.

Songwriter. Even now, that's looking back on my chaos 20s, But even now, it's like aging rock star, podcaster, author, content creator, app development. Yeah, that's true. Even now. So if you were serious, you'd stick with it. No, ADHD, people need to discover their interests and passions. And you do that by trying different stuff out.

and to be successful as a creative, you need to fail, you need to quit. If I hadn't have quit the four music projects I started in my 20s, I wouldn't have a successful one now in my 40s. You have to try things and you have to quit. So it's not even like a soft sell, don't worry if you can't stick.

I'm saying it's good if you don't stick. Right, so a bit of challenge. Just a bit. Because I agree with everything that you've said, but a couple of things to look out for, right? So whether it's building an app starting a podcast, starting ADHD or it's House of Resin, the Etsy store where we were making resin coasters,

at the start, the first week, they all look the same. Like I would say you're as serious about House of Resin the RIP House of Resin, as you were for ADHD love. One didn't work, quit. One, we are here today. But I think that sometimes it is good to quit. And realize it's not for you.

My challenge is, I think you would have done that for ADHD love. There was certainly a chance where you were like falling out of love with it. You're getting a little bit like you wanted to. to do something different and I dragged you through the coal or mud pushed you through tar uphill to make sure you carried on. Yes. So there is a bit of nuance to it. So you have to quit things getting in the way of what you really want to be doing and

what's working for you, whatever that means. Once you find the things that are working for you, you do have to hack a way to stick. when in our first couple of years of ADHD love, I did get bored of making videos in the same way. Of course I do. So actually this is a bit of a hack if you've got ADHD and something's working and you need to not quit.

You need to create things within that world. So there is a reason why we have a podcast. Yeah. It was like within the ADHD love world, but I got to go. and design logos and think about podcasting and be obsessed with that. There's a reason why we have a body doubling app. There's a reason why we wrote books.

I had to find other high novelty interest-based things within that world. So sticking is going to look a little strange. I have to say, music I have always stuck with for decades. and I just think because it changes all the time. Yeah, every song is new, every video's new, every album is a new cycle. So it's in a way, perfect job. And you get to completely change branding everything for each album, each song, each look at that year. Right, should we have a quick word from our sponsors?

Absolutely. We have an amazing sponsor of the Late Bloomers podcast and it is Loop Earplugs, something that both Rich and I love. all of our listeners get 20% off. We have a link to the Loop Airplugs website in our show notes and also our social media bio. On that website are our favourite products. That includes the quiet range. This is for if you want to take a little nap at home. We have the engage. That is if you're going out to dinner and I want to hear what Rich is saying, not eavesdrop on the rest of the restaurant. And we also have the experience, probably my favourite ones,

because it means I've got to drag you to a load of rock and metal gigs this year. Yeah, if you do get overwhelmed in crowded, loud, noisy places, these will actually change your life. So head to the link in the show notes or our bio for 20% off. Right, let's get back to the episode. Right, back into it. Number six, you should adapt to your environment. Now, what I mean by that is for me,

parties, loud concerts, trains, being in London. Like, you just have to do it. You have to go with the flow. Now, I sort of, I get it because if you're at a concert, you do need to be, like, you can't just walk out. I suppose you can just walk out. I've absolutely seen you walk out for concerts. But like, I suppose it's the sense that there's no accommodation

and stuff, you should just be able to turn up and not have neat. So I now actually can't leave the house without even noise-canceling headphones or earplugs. And in a concert, there will be some subtle things that I'll do. Like, I'll be right at the back. Like, if it's a standing one, I'll be right at the back trying to find area. because if I'm sitting there and people are brushing into me and bumping into me, the rage and the discomfort that I feel, I just want to leave. I hate it.

It was when we went to the Architects concert is the happiest ever seen. You had your loops in. You stood at the back, like right at the back on the side and you were watching. You actually started like dancing and getting into it. Like, this guy's brilliant. I've never sort of seen you like that. And that's because we had the earplugs. That's because we chose to stand at the back.

But then conversely, when we went to see president, I, like, immediately hated it. Like, not them, but the location. You saw someone you knew. They started having a conversation. I didn't know who they were. I was getting bumped into every five seconds. So I just walked off.

Do you remember? I have the person is Dan Carter from Radio One. Oh, right. That's brilliant. No, it's brilliant. But you didn't know. So it was... I just walked off.

I was like, I'm not, I'm not, take your time, babe, love you, see you later. Nice to meet you, Dan. Music legend and icon. I'm walking off. Yeah. So I guess it's this sense of you should just grin and bear it. Deal with it. Yeah.

For the sake of the social whole. Now, I'm not challenging you because I 100% agree. I love to see you rocking out. in your earplugs, in a corner, this is brilliant. And I get a gig buddy, so it's working out well. But the people pleaser in me is kind of like, yeah, like you do need to fit in. You do need to be liked and be accepted. You do need to not make it about yourself. So there is something about wanting to fit in, wanting to be seen as going with the flow, being part of the flock. to not stand out.

Yeah. I mean, that doesn't bother me, though. Like, I, Dan Carter probably thinks I'm well weird. I don't care. I did not want to stand where I was standing, so I moved away. I neither grin nor bear it.

That is my motto. I love it. Neither grin nor bear it. We need to put that on a T-shirt because that is literally your, I love that. I love that you are so proudly who you are. Yeah.

You keep doing that, Bobby. Okay. Number seven, back to the ADHD lens. Other people manage, so why can't you? It's very much a way of kind of judging and shaming ADHD struggles because they're seen as silly or made up or not important. And this sense that like it's just the washing up. It's just staying on top of it.

the lawn like literally everybody does it it's like basic needs 101 come on now yeah come on now and that leads to this horrible horrible sense that that you're broken that something's wrong with you if you can't get these basic needs and i lived that way for so long and i let loads of people speak to me in that way everyone else could have come on stop making a mountain out of a molehill this is easy. You should be able to do it. This is basic. Yeah. I mean, I can, I can, I feel really sad for you and everyone with ADHD, because I'm sure they get it a lot. But I also, I can, I really, it's, you have to actually proactively change the way that you feel, though, with that. So, like, as the other person, because I can see you lose headphones or misplace or lose your phone five times in five minutes.

And like my natural state is, how are you doing this? How are you continually making this same mistake over and over? And like, I would never say that, Bubby, because I love you and I know that you're not doing it on purpose because I can see how frustrated you are in you. but the natural the natural mental state is sometimes a bit confused about how. How are you not learning? I know it's mean, but it's like I can't help it. When I was a kid, I used to try and run into the garden.

We had glass doors and I would run into the glass doors. You're laughing, but it really hurts. And my parents didn't understand why I wasn't learning. Like she's running full belt into a glass door. It's hurting. And she keeps doing it. They got a little fake stained glass thing for me to paint. I painted it, lovely, blue and red and green.

Lovely. I still see it now. And we stuck that on the glass door. So I had a visual signal and it worked for a few days because I'd just painted it So I was like in awe of my own little painting And then what happens? Back to running into the door.

But the thing is right So somebody running into a glass door I can see how that could happen Like you don't know it's there The difference between maybe me doing it And you doing it I would maybe do it Once a year

Or once every five years you could probably do it twice in five minutes. Yeah. Or that's the thing. Every day. You do not learn from mistakes that hurt you very much. By the way, that is the same for why we've always flustered and late every day. Well, because you haven't given yourself enough time.

Why don't you just learn? I don't know. I wish we could. Anyway, other people manage why can't you? The reason they can manage is because they don't have ADHD, which I'm very, very happy for them. but some people do, and it is going to be laughably strange. Oh, that was funny. I'm sorry if it was funny.

It's okay. Number eight, emotions should look a certain way. This one's very personal to me, and I'm sure to a lot of autistic people. So like the way, and it can work both ends of the spectrum. It can be sadness, like you're expected to cry. or look a certain way or be all dramatic about something or when you're even grateful or happy, you should be full of energy and joy and smiley and excited.

I'm pretty monotonous, facially and with my tone. So if I'm sad or happy, there's not a huge difference in my face, I don't think. I can smile, obviously, but... You laugh if there's kind of a... joke going on, you can laugh. But if it's good news or someone's sharing something with you and they want to see you smiling, you don't. There's nothing there. And this is again something I feel so much

guilt for because I've been like, don't you care? I've just shown you this. I've told you this. Like, you're not listening or are you angry at me? Like, what's going on? And I totally understand now. I have no expectation of a facial offering from you. Yeah. If I tell you something that means a lot to me and you say that's very good, Bubby, that's all I need. And if I need more, I'll say, I'm actually, can I have a cuddle and a rub on the back and a well done, please? Yep. And then you do that.

So you really need a bit more guidance. Yeah. It must be quite triggering to your RSD, though, my face and tone. Or maybe historically. Of course, because I'm always looking for signals that people don't like me, aren't interested in me, judging me. And you get a sort of monotone voice and a flat face. It's very easy to project onto that something negative.

But I don't anymore. And it's so lovely because I've just learned. And yeah, you're the same with you can receive some really horrible news and be like, oh, right, this is happening. Or amazing news. All right, this is happening. and it's quite similar. Very often I might see tears or happiness a week or a couple of weeks later.

Yeah. So processing is very different. So, yeah. It's so important not to project ourselves onto other people. So for me, he's super expressive crying all the time. Bit less these days? Yeah, well, it's not a bad thing anyway. Therapy's working, even not every day.

No, yes, true. It's very important for me not to go, well, I smile and light up or cry and get sad, therefore I need to see that in you. We must just accept people who they are and it's beautiful. We love it. It works the other way around as well, though. Like, if I am telling you really good news, you'll react the way you react, obviously, it'll like thing. But I like won't. It's almost like, like, a little bit awkward because I'm not, it's my good news and you're the one showing.

it. Oh. It's strange. Okay. Number nine, back to the old ADHD lens. Oh dear. I've left a biggie till last. I think you might want to have words with me on this one.

Why? Being late means you don't care. Hmm. Now, I want to be crystal clear. I am not saying, be late. Wherever you go. It doesn't matter. And in fairness, you're pretty much never.

late now. It's because I go everywhere with you. Yeah, that's true. No, actually, I'm not late to therapy. I was late once and it was so traumatic. I'm wondering whether the trauma of that is actually like healed because I now just go to trains early. If I'm going somewhere, I go to trains early, I've become one of those anxious people. What, yeah, why, though? Because you do, You allow time. Is that just me? Is that me drumming it into you? Like, because you weren't like that.

No, it began with therapy. Because I've lived with you for years and years and it hasn't rubbed off, unfortunately. It began when I was late to therapy by half an hour in my first new therapy appointment with a new therapist. Yeah. And I had a meltdown. I was crying. I couldn't speak. I was like, I've ruined it before I've even begun.

I've let myself down. I've let him down. It was like a traumatic late experience. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, I'm never going to be late again. How do I guarantee that I'm not late? I'm going to go two trains early. And I have for the last year and a half gone two trains early every single Wednesday. And I have slowly but surely learned that two trains early means I'll be on time.

So when I go to my sessions in London to work, I do the same thing. And then you go to a coffee shop and stuff on the way. Have a little coffee. I don't get there sweating and red. Like, it's amazing. But if I'm not travelling on the train, if we're leaving to go somewhere for the weekend or getting a flight, we'll see the lateness because I haven't got my system. That's so true.

Yeah. So it's only on trains to London. But it's cool. I've learned something, but the reason why being late means you don't care can do so much damage for ADHD is time blindness is real. I know it sounds strange and it sounds odd. We don't have an internal sense. Five minutes being 300 seconds is like, whoa, no way. Three hundred seconds sounds so quick. Five minutes sounds like 40 minutes. We're very often, put up in our thoughts, in our dreams, in our fantasy land, hyperactive, within our own minds. You're not aware of the passing of time. And nobody likes being late. It's horrible. It's traumatic.

You hate yourself. It's so frustrating and we never learn. So it's not to say that being on time doesn't matter. It really, really does. And often ADHD is a working overtime thinking about it all the time. just to try and get there on time, which for so many people does just come naturally. It is, it's a tough one, isn't it?

Because, you know, you're not a bad person for being late. It's not your fault. You don't do it on purpose. You're stressed. But like for me, and this is real. It's like if you're meeting someone, if you're 20 minutes late, they've been stood there for 20 minutes.

So it's not like you're not doing it to disrespect them, but also that's how they could, and sometimes rightly so feel, because it's like, well, I've been standing here for 20 minutes. I could have left 20 minutes late. Do you know what I mean? It absolutely has that consequence

and it's so important not to ignore it and it's so important to be honest about it and it's so important to find your own system of two trains early because it can end relationships or friendships or job opportunities. Yeah. Right, last one. This has been a longer one today. Has it? I've got no concept of time. Yeah, it's been a, maybe that's a good thing. Let us know.

Last one for me is like the expectation that you would enjoy social milestones. So I'm talking about weddings or parties or birthdays or whatever. And it's like, I don't like, I like being at home. I'm a homebody. but these things, these family events or big friend events or parties, something that I don't really want to go to, the expectation is that they're like, they're a universal like obligation rather than optional.

And it's like, why are you telling me that this party is not, there's no option? Or if I don't go, I'll be seen as a certain. type of, it's like, it's horrible. I don't like it. Whoa, sorry, you've just absolutely blown my mind. Birthdays, weddings, celebrations are seen. How did you phrase it? It was so good. Universal obligation.

Universal obligation. Like, you have to do it. You don't have a choice. This is what being human means. And if you don't show up to these things and enjoy them, not the funerals, because that'd be weird, but. you know, show up and act in the right way, you are less human somehow? Yeah. Because actually it's a sort of neurotypical ritual, all these things, I think.

And actually they are optional. Yeah, well, they should be. You can be fully human and a great person and a wonderful brother, friend or whatever. It's so interesting because I'm now thinking we've had so many conversations about birthdays and how you don't really like birthdays, yours or mine, it's just not important to you.

And I've tried to dig down and find the reason and find the trauma. It's not there. It's just it's through the autistic lens. It doesn't mean anything to it. It's a social ritual that you don't want to partake in. I would rather just go somewhere nice with you. But that's it. And maybe the kids.

Maybe. Maybe the dog. Maybe the dog. But like, that's it. I don't, yeah, that's it. How do you show family that you really care about them if you don't want to show up to their rituals of... I'll do something with just them. Yeah.

Like, happy birthday, this person. I really hate party, so I'm not coming to a birthday party. But I'd love to take you out for a meal next week. Even that, though, isn't it? Saying I hate birthday parties. I hate inadvertently your birthday party. party that you've planned for fun. Like, people could read that as rude.

I hear that so differently now. I'm so glad. Thanks for teaching me. Well, no problem. This has been the late Bloomer's podcast, but we have talking about. Yeah, we've talking about it. That's fine.

I'm just going to roll with it. We've talking about the 10 rules of life that can do real damage if you've got ADHD autism or both. To our ADHD listeners, this must have been a mad, for you. Please do let us know and what you liked, your own rules, things that have hurt you, things that have helped you. Give us a like, follow, subscribe, all of that jazz. And as ever, we will see you next week.