LATE BLOOMERS - UNMASKING: The neurodivergent identity crisis hidden behind a lifetime of pretending

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox finally talk about unmasking — pretending to be someone you’re not, pretending to be neurotypical, pretending you’re fine, and pretending you don��t have needs. Rich shares how his old mask looked like being the “life and soul of the party,” hyper-masculine and always social, while Rox talks about hiding chaos, messy flats, people-pleasing, fawning, and lying about things like lateness out of shame. They explore why neurodivergent people mask — to fit in, avoid rejection, and feel acceptable — and the cost of it: exhaustion, anxiety, overwhelm, and relationships where the real you is never seen. Rich and Rox share personal moments of overstimulation, needing quiet rooms, crying, mouldy cups, chaotic homes, and acting through fear of being “caught out.” They also talk about how unmasking takes time, feels awkward, and starts with small truths shared with the safest person. And even though it’s scary, they show why it leads to more connection, more honesty, and finally being known for who you really are. 20% off Loop Earplugs: https://www.loopearplugs.com/pages/lp-adhdlove

Today, we are finally talking about unmasking the great neurodivergent identity crisis that nobody asked for. When we were thinking about doing episodes, I actually can't believe we've not talked about masking before on late blooms. But it's so important. Yeah. But we're doing it now. Welcome to the late bloomer's podcast where we are getting our lives together eventually. So I think it's good to start for anyone that doesn't know. with what the hell is masking?

I think, yeah, I think let's do that quickly. I don't reckon there'll be many people watching this video that don't know what masking is. I reckon they've got some experience with it. I think if we know our audience anyway. That is so true. So in a very simple way, masking is pretending, pretending to be something that you're not.

maybe even pretending to be neurotypical, pretending that you're not struggling, pretending that you're not drowning in chaos, pretending that you don't have any needs. It's a kind of the neurodivergent urge to just pretend that you're somebody else. So let's talk about, I suppose, what are experience of masking?

Because I would imagine they're both quite different stories. Should I start with mine? Yes. So I would say I'm very, unmask now. But when you look back to what I used to be, so I used to be a professional bank manager, the life and soul of the party, I would always want, always want to socialize, always, I think it was very aligned to drinking, but like I was, even in a meeting situation, I would have been the loudest, most talkative, most social, which is crazy. And also like

super super masculine like I was yeah like alpha male can I like say that you can say that um so yeah that's like mine was a constant pretending to be someone that and the scary thing is is I didn't really know that wasn't me until recently I think that's so important to say Masking isn't a conscious choice. I'm going to pop on this mask of masculinity. So the bros in the bank like me. You do it unconsciously because you have a belief that that's how you're most acceptable. That's how you're safest. And actually the mask becomes who we think we are and who we really are is just hidden deep down inside. I hope you don't mind me saying this. But when you say the mask was very often kind of hyper-masculine with you when I see you rocking around in your

hairband doing skincare with Lily, your 11-year-old in your pink fluffy dressing gown, like in my mind that is still incredibly, if not more masculine, but it's very different to the masked up version. You're so much more in touch with just fun and those other parts of your personality that allow you to bond with her in such an amazing way? Most definitely. And I think it's, you know, that's probably a whole other episode, the definition of masculine. Because I think so many people get that wrong. I am very masculine, but I do skincare and wear fluffy pink pajamas. And yeah, but yeah, I get it. I love it. So yours was kind of very hyper-masculine, also like hyper-independence, always okay, deal with it, alone,

drink for it, gamble for it. Yeah. Life and soul of the party, which now you are starting to go through the autism diagnosis process that we're all super proud of you. But we do kind of treat you as if. And you're totally, you're the opposite of the life and soul. Yeah. You are the death of the party.

What is the opposite of life and soul? death and what's the opposite of soul? I don't know. Souless. You're the death at soulless of the party. Wow, that sounds really. Sounds a bit heavy. It sounds like one of my songs. Okay, so for me, it was slightly different. I'm coming at it from an ADHD angle. And by the way, one study suggests that 80 to 90% of ADHDs and autistics are masking every day. Yeah. So if you are on that spectrum, you've been diagnosed, if you believe yourself to be, This is probably going to come for your throat. And for that, I can only apologise.

So for me, masking was hiding chaos. So one story I always remember is my sister-in-law coming round to my flat in London unexpectedly because she was in the area and she needed a wee. And I didn't want to let her in because she couldn't see how bad my... house was because if someone turned up unexpectedly, I mean, it was a pig stite, it was a bomb site, it was horrendous, I felt so much shame. And we actually had like a little argument at the door. She was desperate for a wee and I was trying to block her. What excuse me you're given to not? Just like, no, it's too messy. Oh, you were being on it? Yeah, but anyway, she did go for a

wee, but, but it's those experiences of like, I didn't let anybody see my flat, didn't let anybody into my house unless I knew they were coming and then I'd push stuff under the bed and hide the mouldy cups back in the cupboards. It was also a lot of people pleasing, a lot of fawning, saying yes to everyone, yes behaviours. So I wouldn't be rejected. Oh yeah. And also a lot of lying, a lot of lying about the reasons for things. So if I was late to something, oh, the train was delayed or there was really bad. or something happened, it would never be, I actually got lost or I struggle with time. I really struggled to tell the truth that it was me that was the problem.

Yeah. I mean, lying is accurate, but it feels a bit harsh. Like, although you were lying, it was from a place of deep shame about, you know what you mean? It's not telling a malicious lie. You're so ashamed of who you are. You think the only reasonable thing to say is to lie. And I lived like that. hiding my struggles for like my entire 20s and into my 30s. And I imagine, imagine that you did too. Mid 30s, yeah. So why do neurodivergent people mask?

Why do we mask up and lie and pretend to be normal and pretend to be okay? There's a few reasons. I think first off is to fit in. Yeah. You see how everybody else behaves. If I'm going to fit in and be accepted, I need to be on time, be clean, be the life and soul of the party. It's almost like your struggles aren't valid or real. So you just, let's hide those and fit in at any cost.

Does that resonate with you? It does, yeah. Also, for me, like, I probably can't say this, but everyone will know what I mean. I used to feel a bit weird. like the real like it would the alternative to not mask is like people think I'm going to be a weirdo like you know I'm going through the diagnosis process at the moment and like I'm certain I'm autistic but what if I'm not I'm like oh my god somebody asked me the other day they were like what if you're not autistic I was like honestly I don't I don't know even if it comes back

not officially diagnosed you can still have autistic traits which I think you do have and if it helps you, we'll treat you that way anyway. So you don't need to worry. But that's so real. It's a sense that the real me is so weird, odd, unacceptable. That's not welcome in the world. I also think a big part of it is to avoid rejection. Definitely with the ADHD experience, we are very sensitive to rejection.

We've been criticised our entire life for being naughty, unfocused, if only you'd apply yourself, why are you doing that? You've just internalised that you're a dreadful person and you need to, you need to hide parts of yourself that are unacceptable and it's the chaotic, shameful, vulnerable parts. The parts that need the most help are the parts we end up not telling anyone about, which is... Yeah, and like, I'd think back to when I was, because I was quite a senior manager in the bank, right? So I was on all these conference calls and meetings and stuff. And I used to, I was one of the loudest in the room, but I used to remember like the bosses

and stuff got frustrated with people that would not be really vocal and speak up and stuff. So not only would you think, oh, it would be weird if I said something, you're also getting like criticised for not speaking up. Like it's crap, like the leadership for neurodivergent people and the allowances. about them. Society as a whole rewards normal. Yeah.

Rewards people that fit in and do the right thing. So actually, being a pretender, pretending that everything's okay, you get rewarded. It's not a good reward and it's not worth it, but you do get some reward from it.

One thing I did as part of my masking journey, I remember taking on a sort of pride at university in how messy I was. I was just like, yeah, my room's like the messiest room in the halls, yeah, whatever, I don't care. And people would laugh at me and like, she's got mold, she's got a fly infestation, yeah, ha-ha. And I'd just shrug it off like I was the coolest kid in town. And that again was masking because I was deeply ashamed. I didn't know what to do and how to get myself together

but I didn't want to be embarrassed so I wore it like a badge of honour I think sometimes masking is also a badge of honour in your mess or your hyper-independence maybe for you and so it's not only the things we hide it's also the things we pretend to be proud about because we can't deal with the shame

so the cost of masking then so everyone's out here pretending to try and fit in What does that do to you? What are the consequences of that? And I suppose if I think back like exhaustion, like it's knackering because you're always, always have to think about how to react to something rather than just react to something.

Oh, my lord. That is so real. The tiredness that neurodivergent people feel because you're not only living your life you're acting 24-7 and to hold that mask up it's really really heavy no wonder we turn to heavy drinking

as a way to try and feel okay and by the way we're all exhausted anyway even unmasked we're exhausted all the time and not only like for me I can speak for me it was exhaustion and also really specifically anxiety. Like I really struggled from a mental health perspective.

So, you know, you mentioned no wonder we drive ourselves to drink. Mine would have been a mixture between I'm exhausted and I'm also super anxious about having to pretend this whole time. So I'm going to drink to take the edge off. And yeah, but I guess it can manifest physically or mentally differently. in everyone. Tiredness is so big. Also anxiety, I relate so much. I was so anxious. Remember when we met, I was, when I stopped drinking, I became really anxious because you're not numbing that sense of personal wrongness. You're trying to hold the mask up. And I was just in a constant state

of fear of being caught out of not being a normal person. It's really sad because you are a normal person, you're just normal in a different way. Yeah. Underneath, I also think, and this is a bit sad, but I think the people then in your life don't know you. Obviously, I have a very difficult relationship with my dad, or actually no relationship with my dad at the moment. When I think about what he thinks about me, he doesn't know me at all.

he knew a teenage version and a 20s version which would have been my most mast up, my most bravado, I don't care that I'm messy, I'm a big drinker, a total armoured human. He doesn't know the softness, the joy, the weirdness at all. And that's really sad for a parent not to know the child. And it will be more than just parents. It'll be everyone, right?

I mean, that's obviously probably hits the hardest because that's your dad. But the same applies to everyone. One final thing about the cost of masking, which is super relevant for me. I'm just thinking about the level of safety that you don't have. So an example, if I'm going to a music gig or whatever, so now I'll be like this is really overwhelming this is really overstimulating and let me go and I need to find somewhere quiet and stuff like that if you feel like you can't say that and be vulnerable about how you're feeling you have to push through it like what that will do to the body like you're almost almost in

fight or flight if you feel like you have to mask you have to enjoy yourself you have to bang your head when the beat drops like but you're feeling really like overwhelmed freaked out the lights are flashing the noises your head's going to explode if you can't be honest in that moment and you have to mask through it like it's just a real deep sense of just not being safe Yeah

I think that's a perfect time to just take a little break and talk about our amazing sponsor Oh that's actually a really good point Yeah I recently got to take Rich to a metal gig and I hate screaming music

like self-identified hater of screamy, heavy music. And I really wanted to go and see architects who are playing at the O2, and they are quite a screaming band. Yeah, they are. Old Sam Carter has got the screaming vocals. And I asked Rich if he wanted to come, fully, fully assuming that the answer would be no. And he said, yes, as long as I've got my loop earplugs. So the fact that we have loops as a sponsor to our podcast is the coolest thing ever

because we rely on these to be able to go to gigs. I'm not even lying. I was at the gig. Have my loops in. I was fine. I took them out every now and again to just listen. And I was like, oh my God, I would be leaving immediately and put it straight back in. So this isn't like we really do use them. I know. It's so good. We actually have an awesome website alongside Loop Earp where we've got some of our favourite products. So for example, the ones that Rich used at the architect's gig are the experience. So that's really good for concerts and festivals. So you can still hear what's going on, but it's taking the sound down to protect your ears.

We also have the quiet range. If you're taking a nap, if you're in a library, amazing. And we have the Engage, which is my faves. If we go out for dinner, and I don't want to be eavesdropping everyone else's conversation. I use those. So check out our website. It is linked It's in the show notes. It's also in our bio. You can see our favourite products and of course get 20% off. Right. So back into it, why is it so difficult to take the mask off now? We have made lots of videos about unmasking and we get so many comments from people saying, I don't think I can do it or where do I start or it feels so scary and it is and it is scary. and I think it's so important for us to say that this isn't like a one and done thing.

This is something you're going to work on for a really, really long time. It's scary to take off because, as you said earlier, the masked version of you is who you believe yourself to be. I thought I was the life and soul of the party, masculine, troublemaker, always out on the town, changing partners. that's who I believe myself to be, you had a view of yourself as well. So you're challenging your entire identity. So it is going to be overwhelming. It's going to be anxiety inducing and you're going to be scared. You're going to wonder what's underneath. Sometimes it won't even be conscious as well. So I think back to, we joke about it, right? But even when we were together and I still worked in the bank

because I was having to practice that masking all day, every day. It wasn't until I stopped working at the bank and was at home more and felt more and more safety that the real me started to come out, come out. And I'm not even sure that it was conscious on my part. It was just that feeling of safety so I can be a bit odd. And because I love doing what I'm about to do and I know that I'm not going to be laughed at

or criticized or shame. No, we love your oddness. Well, I might be laughed at, but in an endearing way. There's a lot of laughter in this house. Yeah, so I think there's a sense of when you say to take the mask off, they're like, we'll call what's underneath? We don't know.

It's taken us both years to find these little oddballs hiding underneath. And that's okay. We will take time and it's a beautiful journey. wearing the mask is safer and you can mask up in front of anyone you can be in front of any crowd any group and feel fine because you're pretending the thought of losing that can feel like losing a superpower or losing the ability to socialise and actually that's that's

very real when you start to unmask life will change and it's not the same for everyone but like you don't go out you don't socialise you don't go to the pub you don't like loud environments it's it's really different your home life is so different and you do lose certain things definitely definitely do and it's it's almost like starting again it's like finding out the things that you love doing all over again which is which is a weird sort of thing to do in your mid 30s but it is but it's so worth it and then I think The core, if I could sum up, why it's scary to unmask is we all have a deep belief, probably unconscious, that that real self is unacceptable, unlovable.

And that's why they've been hidden so deeply, repressed so deeply, because they can never be loved. They'll be rejected. There's so much pain around that. And that's so sad because those odd, quirky little mannerisms and ways of being and finding joy, so unique, it's so beautiful. And so many of just of us have abandoned that person. Yeah. So just understand that it is scary. You're going back to find a part of you that you've long hidden because they were probably really, really, really, really, really hurt and really, really not safe when you were younger.

Yeah. I think we both can relate to that. Definitely. And I think, you know, where to, where do you even start? Like, how do you, how do you unmask? And, you know, maybe this is a bit controversial to say, but I am certain that the person that you need to test it with is the person that you're closest to. Like, and that you're the safest with. So in a lot of instances, that will be your romantic partner.

because let's be real if it doesn't work with them they're probably not the right partner like I don't want to be you know combative but that's the real you and and you know hopefully the majority of people they start having a good experience with this but I think back to me and you right even to the point and I think unmasking prevents conflict as well so if I think about if something's happening with me or you're asking stuff of me and I'm overwhelmed. The masked me would have been like, no, I can sort this out. I'm good of problem solving. I can do this. But when it gets to a point where I'm overwhelmed, I occasionally do it. I'm like, Bubby, I can't retain any more information. I'm being asked. Too much is being asked of me at the

moment. I need to be sort of left alone. I need to go and sit in a quiet room. which is a really weird it feels like a really weird thing to say and ask for but that's what i'm asking is right that's what it's like in the moment and i tell you why it's so beautiful and it's so good for a relationship before i would notice you now obviously now i can look at it through an autism lens and use all the right words and say i can notice you becoming overstimulated overwhelmed, heading to a meltdown in need of sensory quiet. Cool. I get it now. Take me back a few years. I looked at those behaviours without those words or this knowledge and saw someone not making eye contact with me, visibly agitated. And I read that as, you're angry at me. You don't want to talk to me. You're not looking at me.

and that made issues way worse. But when you're able to now say, I'm getting overwhelmed, I need a moment alone. It's the most, sorry, it's just the most beautiful thing. I love it. I love knowing that part of you. And I love that you get to label that in this house. And there's nothing wrong with that panic.

It's too much. I need a quiet room. And then you go and have half an hour. And then you come back. right, all good. And it's different, but it's the same with me. A huge one for me is telling you when I'm sad. I would always hide sadness. I'm very emotional. Hello, emotional dysregulation and ADHD. A lovely combo. I'd hide when I was sad. Deal with it all inside and just be very, very sad, blobby human. Now, and it's taken so much practice, if I'm crying,

I feel like I'm going to cry, I will go and seek you out. It's like, babel. I'm going to cry. It's actually like... Bobby, I'm sad. That I mean this with so much love, but it's so hilarious, adorable and like almost awkward because you're fighting for it

and you're like, Bobby, I'm sad. Okay. Okay. It's making me cry happy tears. But then you will say, do you need a cuddle? I say, and the minute you cuddle me,

then I cry within five minutes. I'm right as rain, but those words, awkward, I think unmasking feels awkward. Yeah, yeah. So for me sharing, crying or vulnerability, in that moment, it feels awkward. I'm not trained. I'm trained to put it down.

So you have to push through. You have to say, I'm going to trust my person. I'm going to go and you're laughing at me. No, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, there's a lot of vulnerability in that, right? So you're talking about how to start unmasking. This isn't about showing up 24-7 in life as you really are. Who knows?

It's about moments of vulnerability where you tell the truth to that person that is closest to you. Like, start where you're safest. And I think that's important. Like, we'll come on to this, but it's a good moment to just mention it. Sometimes masking is needed. Oh. Like, we'll get to it, but, like, hold that thought. Hold that thought.

Yeah. So if that's where you start, you start with your safest person. And we're leaning into a little bit of truth, a little bit of asking for help. We're pushing those self-imposed boundaries that we've always had and we're just trying to know each other a bit more. That's where you start. Where does it end? I think if I look at our relationship, I can say it's probably taken three years to get to the point when you and I are completely. completely unmasked with each other. Of course, it still pops up its head every now and then

because you've had decades of training in another way. But a good three years within our safest relationship is there. At work, we're both working on it, more unmasked than we ever were, but it does take time. So I think for someone listening that's thinking about this for the first time, it's a very slow process. It's a marathon, not a sprint. You're not going to listen to a 30 minute episode, be like, cool, I'm a mask. It's going to be months. It's going to be years of slowly wondering. And your first task is just noticing when you're masking. You're running around, running late, about to leave the house and someone says, are you okay? Rather than saying, yep, fine, say actually I'm really struggling.

I'm anxious and running late and panicking. Just can you notice in that moment and stop? That's all you've got to do. And then you keep doing that for years and years. And eventually that little odd ball inside is going to start coming out more because they feel safer. Definitely. It's incredibly cute.

And I think be, expect it sometimes. not to go well, like this is a practice. You don't have to be brilliant at it, you know, straight away. And sometimes, you know, we've mentioned the word awkward. Sometimes you'll be embarrassed. Like, it won't feel nice because you'll be honest. All of those decades of masking consciously or unconsciously, you're having a different experience. And it feels really awkward and you can be embarrassed you might even go red like and some people and that's why we like really focus on starting with somebody that's super safe because there are judgmental people out there there are people that would that might laugh at you there are people that might think you're rude

like whatever it is that you're being honest about like you might it might be hit with judgment if it's maybe the wrong people there will absolutely be people people that when we're at a social gathering together and you say, I've had enough now, thank you, I'd like to leave, which I love. It's just you, your sort of social energies run out, had enough, ready to go home to your safe space. There will be people that look at you and go, God, he's a bit rude. And there will be people that look at me and think, God, she's a bit emotional, or she's a bit much. You have to accept not being liked by everybody

so you can be liked by yourself and by those closest to you. But that's, so I think that's easier for me than it is for you naturally because you, from a ADHD perspective and an RSD perspective, the thought of not being liked, your loads, it's taken you a long time,

but like if I go back three or four years, that would almost be like unacceptable. Oh, leaving a party early, no. But somebody not liking you. That's what I mean, yeah. I would be a chameleon of sorts to make myself into what they wanted me to be. So I would be like. But then they're not liking me.

They're liking a false mirror of them. It's very, very odd. But it takes a long time. It takes a really long time. time to be okay with not being liked if your whole personality you identify as a people pleaser a lot of ADHD is do to be seen of as a bit of a prick it's quite uncomfortable I am leaning into it and I'm enjoying my prick era yeah um okay so that's some of the sort of like negatives of why it can be difficult not everybody's going to like it it might be a bit

awkward. But can we talk about why unmasking is the best thing ever and why we advise everyone to give it a go? Look, the first thing is when I think about you and I, where we were when we met, still beautiful, still in love, absolute vibes, but it was very different to where we are now. When you are known for who you are, your relationships will be filled with so much more laughter, less anxiety, better boundaries, better connections and conversations. It's just so much happier. Yeah. And it will be weird and wonky. And you'll find your own special ways of working out this world together. And it won't be like anyone else's, but it'll be absolutely brilliant. It's such a good point. Like I feel no anxiety at all.

in any part of our relationship ever. And there's also never a feeling of this is how I feel and she doesn't know because I say it in the moment, like at the time. You're never alone. And the neurodivergent experience is one of loneliness if you've grown up, not knowing, undiagnosed without really, really close people to you.

It's being unknown forever. And unmasking allows you to finally be known. And I think, you know, it's very simple. It's maybe a bit bait, but it's about being loved and accepted for who you really are. Yeah. And it's going to make home your favourite place in a whole wide world. Yeah. And I think my final point, and I touched on it earlier, is that sometimes it's good to mask.

Like, it just is. If you're doing a presentation at work, like maybe that's a time for masking. If you're meeting a customer or client for the first time, there is a expectation, depending on what company you work for, that there is professionalism, there's certain things. That might not be you, but that's okay. That's not be you. At a funeral.

You wouldn't stand up and say I've had enough now as the formation is going down. I know that's a crazy example, but just to show me as a singer, on stage, I have an alter ego, Rory, who's a moment. mask a bit more confident and a bit more bigger than me to allow me to do that. So we do need masks. And sometimes the unmasking conversation, I think it gets a bit lost. It's almost like the goal is to just be yourself, be your oddball self all of the time. No, no, no.

It's not that. We actually want to have the social skill of being able to move in and out of certain masks at certain times. But the trick is not to get lost behind it. And that you get to choose when it goes on for your convenience, for your happiness. And when it comes off, it's to not get lost behind it. It's having that consciousness about it, isn't it? Like we'll say, right, time to put the mask on for the next hour.

We'll be tired afterwards rather than it be in your identity. Exactly. Oh, what lovely episode. I've loved this one. We really hope that you have as well. If you have, give us a like, follow, subscribe, wherever you are listening or watching. and we can't wait to see you next week.