LATE BLOOMERS - WHY BEING “NICE” IS MAKING YOU MISERABLE: How to stop people pleasing and finally put yourself first

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Are you constantly saying yes when you mean no? Feeling anxious about being liked? Putting everyone else’s needs before your own... then burning out in silence? You might be stuck in a people pleasing loop... and it’s time to break free. In this episode of LATE BLOOMERS, Rich and Rox dive deep into the roots of people pleasing, from childhood conditioning to ADHD-related rejection sensitivity. They share personal stories, relationship reflections, and how unlearning the “good girl/good boy” mindset changed everything. Expect raw honesty, a few uncomfortable truths, and practical advice on how to: – Stop caring what everyone thinks – Set boundaries without guilt – Start living for you It’s not about being selfish, it's about being yourself!

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or prevent any disease. Today we're talking about the power of I don't care and unlearning people pleasing. We are going to look at why we seek external validation, why it is absolutely exhausting, and what we can do to stop it. This is Late Bloomers where we are getting our lives together. I don't care.

Starting straight away. I do care. Obviously do care. You care about everything. Yeah, too much. So I naturally don't care actually, but this is quite an interesting one for me. We're coming at this from two totally opposite perspectives. Me, someone that has historically cared more about every single other person than myself. And you, who's just like, Mr.

I don't care. I don't care. Maybe I should care more. Do you think so? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. So is it me first? Yeah. So I think I'm way better than I used to be, but I have to work really hard. It comes up pretty much every week in therapy, why I self

censor, why I say yes instead of no, why I feel extreme anxiety for like having needs or criticising people. And it's exhausting trying to fix it in all honesty. However, what I've realised recently is I've always had this belief that like, if you're just nice to everyone and you please everyone, it makes life easier. That's why I thought I was doing it, but it really doesn't. It also must like backfire with ADHD because like you've made loads of commitments thinking that you're going to please everyone and then don't or struggle to follow through. A hundred, I'll definitely be there. You can rely on me.

Oh my God, I was it today. Or I'm like, it's like setting yourself up for constant failure. But when I think about in particular, the career that I've built now as an artist, I had to learn to stop people pleasing because I was working as a songwriter. And there's no better place for a people pleaser to be than writing songs for other people. You get to go in, help them craft their vision, give them what they want, not get paid for it. Always for free, wouldn't it? I remember when we first met, you were working like five days a week. What was it actually costing you Annie, because you had to get there. People would ask me, can you work on a weekend? No problem. Like no boundaries, no self care

whatsoever. And I had totally squished the part of me that wanted to be an artist, because I was getting external validation for working on other people's projects. In order to start making music as Rory, I had to do for me something that was so uncomfortable, which was for the first time ever kind of put my dream above other people's. Yeah. Not just a songwriter though, like just looking at you and your history and even maybe recently, although you have been loads better, even looking at your artist stuff, which is doing amazingly well. If somebody that you know talks about doing their own artist project or whatever, you can be really, really vested in that. Like you used to do it to the detriment of your stuff, but like now

you're really like honed in on what they can achieve and like you're almost in there with them. Do you know what I mean? I can't help but just see the raging potential in everybody else. And my natural instinct is to feel like I should be supporting them, helping them bring their vision to life. I get a lot of joy from the external validation of helping other people. However, it doesn't really lead you to the happiest places. And talking about music is one thing, but it's so much deeper than that with me. It would be to be with my dad and step-mom and have them saying not very nice things about my mum, my ADHD, and just nodding and agreeing. It actually makes you allow people to treat you

not very well. You don't really have that problem, do you? Like not at all. I never have had it. And like I'm probably, you know, if you were too far one way, I potentially, like you always argue with me about this, I'm potentially too far the other way or certainly can be because I will be really logical, really direct. I've never understood, for example, why people would lie about stuff just to be liked. Say if you got a Christmas present that you hated. You're not the type to be like, thanks, thanks so much is everything I've ever wanted. I would thank them, but then I would probably be honest about like, it's not,

it's not for me, but I really appreciate the thought. You know, obviously being sort of amicable is a really nice trait, but it's a very fine line between being polite and amicable and falling into deep people pleasing, which people pleasing, it sounds nice, but it's not. It's being very inauthentic and it's really making yourself suffer. So let's talk about the roots of people pleasing. Obviously you can talk about the roots. Obviously.

Let's do it. You know me. So I've got a obviously you can talk about the roots. Obviously. Let's do it. You know me. So I've got a few things to talk about. First of all, it is conditioning from childhood. Okay, on a really simple level. That is like the good boy, good girl curse. Yeah, you were like good girl when they were quiet, calm, complacent, doing what they were told and you were bad if you were rebelling, doing your own thing, stepping out of line. Often probably just expressing yourself like you were bad. Yeah.

You became a bad child by expressing yourself. So that's going to mess you up a little bit, isn't it? I think particularly it affects girls. Being a good girl, helping out, helping mummy, doing this. It definitely is more accepted for a little boy to be like a maniac, isn't it? Like it's, you might not like it, but that's you sort of being programmed to accept it more. But I was out like on a BMX eating dirt whilst also trying to... Eating dirt? Yeah, you know. So that's the first thing. It's from childhood and it's really important

to have it in context, to go back to your family of origin. Were you trying to please the adults around you to be safe? Were you able to be yourself or did you have to please? If you learned to please the adults around you to be safe? Were you able to be yourself or did you have to please? If you learn to please, to self-silence, to sacrifice, you're probably going to carry that into adulthood and it might be a problem. So I'm just trying to, while you're talking, I'm not trying to think of like why I'm not the way I am. Does that stem from, I guess, independence as a child, throughout childhood? I had a job at quite a young age, I bought my own stuff. Ah, so like I don't need to please my parents.

I'm doing my own thing. I buy my own food, I'm working my own job. Yeah, and I moved out at 17, had to do things by myself. So I wonder if it is linked to, because I had to be independent from quite a young age and look after myself. It's like, I don't need to please anyone else. I'm doing it like, leave me alone. I don't care what you think.

I mean, it certainly makes sense if you look at your pattern, doesn't it? The next one is fear of rejection. So it's this sense that if you have needs, if you speak up, you might be perceived as selfish or not likable. Whereas if you're constantly sacrificing for somebody else, you're gonna be seen as a really nice person. So you'll never be rejected. And I think this particularly plays into ADHD as you think about RSD.

So many of us are so sensitive to being rejected that we build this mask of like, I'll do anything to be liked. That's, that is one thing I used to really notice with you, because if, and that's a real difference. If somebody if I learned that somebody didn't like me, like, I don't care, like, cool, I don't spend any time with you, do you one less person to worry about, I don't need to interact with them. Whereas that would be quite a struggle for you to comprehend. What do you mean they don't like me? If somebody says or acts like they don't like me, that's a red rag to a ball for me to convince them to like me. Your way is right. If someone doesn't like you, if they're an idiot, if they're a dick, no

thanks, I'll never spend time with that person. It's a bodily reaction of like, I need to fix this. I need to draw closer. And it's horrible. And it's led me to pursue friendships and relationships with people that are like absolute dickheads. But because they've just sort of rejected me in some way, it's triggered me into like, I must people please the hell out of this. One challenge though I will make with you, like, this is a bit of black and white thinking. You said it about people that wouldn't like me and you said it about people that wouldn't like you.

They don't necessarily have to be a dick. They might just not like me. Like I'm not everyone's cup of tea. That doesn't make them bad. A hundred percent. I think allowing that, allowing humans to human, we're not going to be liked by everybody. That's a lesson that I'm still trying to learn. So we've got conditioning from childhood and fear of rejection. That's like at the roots of doing all this weird people pleasing, but it really messes you up when you're caught in people pleasing patterns. So first of all, it makes you an anxious mess. What with interacting with them you mean?

You're constantly worried about have you let someone down? Have you done something wrong? Have I done enough? They've text me, I need to text back, I need to be there. I don't know if you remember, I had a friend a few years ago, always asking more and more, can you come up at the weekend? Can I call you? Can I be there? Can I do this? Can you come? And I was tying myself in knots, trying to be the good girl for every single thing. I just- You were exhausted. I was an anxious wreck, babe. Like her name would come on my phone and I'd have shaking hands like, but that ain't a friend or a partner. Like if

you have anxiety all the time around someone, listen to your body. Exhaustion is the second thing. It's so tiring extending yourself, doing things you don't want to do, going against your body. Well, it's masking, I guess, isn't it? Like you're just pretending to be someone, you're not just to please someone else. You end up just building a cage of a life that you don't even want. Like no one would choose that life. It's so sad. And I definitely feel like I've come so far. Like I say no so often now, but that has taken a really long time to learn. And no,

thanks. I'm tired or I'm busy or I don't want to do that. Yeah. Getting exhausted just thinking about it. The other one is a loss of identity. When you make your whole life pleasing others, there is no room to grow into who you are, to find the things that you love, that you want to do, that's important to you. You're just full of other people's dreams and wishes. And is that what you relate that back to when you were songwriting?

Oh, I had zero artistic identity. I was just whoever the other person needed me to be on that day and totally squashed. Even now, right? So you don't do it very often, but you won't go into a songwriting session unless it's something you really want to write. I remember you having sessions with certain people writing certain songs and it's like, I don't enjoy doing this. I'm just saying yes because they want me to go. So I have to say yes, but I hate doing it. It's going to lead you to burnout. You have to listen to your body. And the final thing and the most important part to realise

if you're a people pleaser is the seething resentment that will build up in you. Because you people please in order to get love and validation, but those relationships aren't real. They're transactional. Those people are using you in a lot of situations. So you're never ever going to get the real love, the healthy, equal relationship that you're looking for. You're just going to burn out, run yourself ragged, not feel very good about it. And over time, you're going to start to hate that person,

resent that person that they keep taking off you, even though it's you that's giving it for free. That's happened to me so many times. I've given and given and given and given and then hated the other person. And that's not their fault. That's not their fault. That is fully on me. And it's so strange that we call it people pleasing because in the moment maybe you're pleasing the other, but long term you're displeasing them. Because the minute that you say no, or you change your mind, or you want to do something for you, they'll see you as the most selfish person ever because they have been used to the version

of you that you've shown, which is you come first in every situation in my life. So this is really interesting and I'll share, and I'm almost like nervous about doing this, but I'll share my point of views. But I can't profess to be an expert in this because it comes quite naturally. Like not caring, I'm fine with. So I need to, and so I'll be more inquisitive if you don't mind. Yeah, of course. Some of the things have come up in my mind and in our past, in our

relationship, that's made me just sort of question it, but I don't mean any judgment, it's just being curious. And the first one is, like it sounds overly simple, but like why does it matter to be liked? So I'll give you an example of me, like not only do I not care if somebody doesn't like me, there are certain individuals where I wouldn't want them to like me, that not only do I not care if somebody doesn't like me, there are certain individuals where I wouldn't want them to like me because their character, what they stand for, their moral compass is so far away from mine. I don't want to be even associated with that person. So I would want it to be known that I don't like them. They don't like

me. I can't think of anyone like off the top of my head, by the way. But you know, the wrong ones, I don't want them to like me, because then people could perceive that I'm like aligning myself with them. Look, do you know what I mean? So I suppose the question for me is like, why does it matter being liked? Oh, that's a horrible question. I guess being disliked is intolerable to me on a core level because it aligns with something I've felt quite deep down, which is that I'm inherently bad and unlikable as a human being. It's all

of course past stuff. It all relates to my dad. All roads lead back to your parents. But like hearing you say it, I logically get it. There's like some absolute wrong ends. I wouldn't want them to like me logically, but my body cannot tolerate being seen as selfish, horrible or unlikable. And it's interesting because there are some people that I've met and not in my life, but they've been in my life where I sort of take a dislike to them. And that for me means I don't want to spend any time with them. Like I won't go to places that they're going to because I know... So what I know logically is I can't just be rude to someone because that's not okay.

So I can't just blank them. But the alternative is to pretend. So they're the two options, right? So I either have to be overtly rude, or I need to pretend that I like you. Neither of which I'm really willing to do. So I'll just, no thank you. You know it's just making me think for me like a big piece of this puzzle, something I talk about loads in therapy but it's my relationship with my dad and step mum. There is no relationship now. However there was for many years, I spent time with them in their house that used to be my family home. And in that dynamic, in order for me to have some kind of parental unit, I had to never say anything about their history, the long time affair, not really talk about my mum. Never say anything that

they're done that would upset me because they can't handle that. So like for survival, because actually for many years, I did need to sometimes go back home, I did sometimes need my dad. I had to fully silence any upset, anger, reaction in me towards the things they had done and impact it had on me. It was just made so clear if you want to be safe and loved, there's things you do not talk about. You don't rock the boat.

You don't make other people feel bad because you'll lose safety. So for me, even though it's not now, in my bones, it still feels like a matter of survival. If someone doesn't like me, I'm not safe and I'm going to lose my safety. We have our own house, I have you. I can't lose my safety. But personalities and trauma, it doesn't work like that. It holds on long after it's gone. And you know what? It was useful to me. Being able to totally suppress my own needs and show up.

And I remember my step-mum crying about my dad maybe not being good with her. Bear in mind this woman had had a long-term affair by my mum's back and I really didn't like her. But I was there, it's okay, don't worry, tell me. Almost being the therapist to her. It's horrendous but doing that allowed me to be in that house and to be okay. And I needed it. There's times I got evicted from a flat and I had to go home. So it was almost like a sort of selfish survival mechanism. But I've carried that pattern on years after. After you don't need it. I don't need it. I don't need to do that anymore.

I don't need to be rubbing the back of someone that has destroyed me or someone I love. But I still feel the desire to do it, to draw close to people. Yeah. Oh man. The other thing that I hadn't written on my card before this. So it, but it's just come up to my mind. We've obviously been talking about like, really big relationships, like parents and stuff like that. But I suppose my question, and again, from a completely non-judgmental place, I'm thinking of our manager, actually, as I'm as I'm sat here, but it can be anyone. So just like normal acquaintances or friends or whatever. My question is, is there a problem with authenticity? So hear me out. Probably not recently, but we have obviously the same manager because we do the same job.

And I'm like, I would, I would know that he doesn't like me. I don't think he dislikes me, but we're not friends. Like we work colleagues and we respect each other. And I'm like super direct all of the time. I'll pick up on every mistake. And I don't, I don't care about how it comes across because this is the fact I'm going to say it because I want to say it and if I don't say it, I'll end up building resentment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the other side of that coin is, and this is what I mean by authenticity, is if I say, well done to him or like, thanks mate, that was really a good job. I really appreciate it or appreciate

you. It feels like it means more coming from me than potentially. And you don't do this now at the moment, but at the beginning, but like coming from a people pleaser, it's like, does it just lack impact? Is it? Yeah, I really, really think it does. And that's where people pleasing patterns get it so wrong. You think you're doing the other person a service, but you're not. You're doing your both of you a disservice long term. So when we were first working together, aren't you so grateful? Someone will take this. Thanks so much. He's just doing a basic job. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. He does something I don't like. I don't know what to say. And if I raised it at all, but so sorry to raise this.

Oh yeah. Oh, that's a big one for you. Apologizing. My God. Apologizing when I'm talking about someone else maybe doing something wrong. It's really frustrating. And actually when you show up as that type of person, and it's no one else's fault, you never get the changed behaviour, the accountability that you need in a healthy relationship to move on. And that goes both ways, because you never ask for it. You dress it up in cotton wool. You hope they're going to mind read. And that's when I can feel resentment and let down. It's probably why I've left a lot of relationships in the past and they didn't know why, why didn't they say. Whereas now, and it's excruciating to me, I have to like say, I need accountability for this. I need to know what happened. And I will often write a reply and then delete it and write two sentences. Cause I have to take out all my fluff, all my people

pleasing, all my softening, all my candy coating. Just say the thing. Mine and his relationship is better because he knows where he stands with me. And something crazy happened a few months ago and I've never had anyone say this about me. I was well proud. I was like, therapy's working. He had just hired someone else and I was meeting her for the first time and I was like, oh, sorry, working with me is going to be really difficult. And he went, no, it's not working with rocks is great. She's really direct. You know what you need to do and you know where you stand. Oh, really? Nobody's ever called me direct. I'm practicing it every day. Every day it's

excruciating and every day you make a tiny, tiny, weeny bit of progress and it's so worth it. I'm happier, I'm less resentful, I'm less anxious. The other person knows exactly where they stand. Brilliant. You project it less as well, if you don't mind me saying so. If you think about when we first started working together, less as well, if you don't mind me saying so. If you think about when we first started working together, I got this wrong and the whole dynamic was wrong, but I would write an email and I would get you to read it because I thought maybe I was in the wrong and you would add bluff to it, wouldn't you? Now it's probably more the other way around. Like you're

right and you'll be like, babe, what do you think of this? And I'll be like, why have you said that? Why is there no need for that? You know, you said we were looking at big relationships. Let's look at smaller ones. Let's go even smaller in the car, letting somebody else out. Yeah. Not waving.

Oh yeah, that was a big one for you, wasn't it? Still is. Yeah. You didn't wave. I can't even have a stranger think that we forgot to wave quick. Yeah. Tying. Well, I'm like, where's my right of way? Why am I saying thank you? You could maybe say thank you behind the wheel, a tiny bit more. Yeah, granted. So let's talk about some ways, some practical ways that if listeners are relating to this, trapped in a bit of people pleasing dynamic, how can they actually start to break through?

Well, I think I sort of covered the first point, but just to sum it up in a sentence, is reprogramming the whole, I must be liked. Like, it's not easy that I dare people to say, change it from, I must be liked by everyone to, it doesn't matter if they like me or not. So I think you'll sort of find some freedom in that. It's so simple when you say it, but it's so difficult in reality to just accept, I will not, I cannot be liked by everyone. However, like you will be super liked by your close people. So rather than spreading yourself across 50 people and trying to be liked by all of them, have like a few. That naturally like you.

Don't need to convince them. Because you're you. Yeah. They like you, whether you're people pleasing or not, or being a dick, you're still liked. So yeah, I think that that just takes time to change that mindset and to be confident and okay with being disliked or even being hated by other people and just being like... I'm sure we're hated by loads of people on the internet. Well, we get loads of hate comments, don't we? So, yeah.

Second one, this might be an unpopular opinion, but it's my opinion, take it or leave it. You don't care. I don't care. Is to care more about yourself than others. I don't see that as selfish. I see that as honouring yourself and the way that it should be. Like if everyone run around caring about other people more than themselves nobody would get anything done. No one would achieve anything. See, it's so correct. It's so true. It's your life. It might not be correct, that one. It's your life. You get one life. Live it and be happy. Okay?

However, society has made us feel like that self. In fact, we have a word for it. Self-centered. Full of yourself. Who else am I meant to be bloody full of? Self-centered is really fascinating, right? So selfish or fully self, I can see how they would be negative. Self-centered, like who else should be at the center? Like what? What? Do you know what I mean? I know that it's a bad phrase, but if you break it down, it isn't really. Someone was to say to you, like, you're really self-centered. You're like, yeah. Who else? Who else am I meant to be? Yeah. Do you want me to put you in the center then?

But that's it. It's the type of people that feel like they should be the centre of your world, that will get annoyed. So, okay, so it's being okay with being disliked or even hated by people. It's being self-centred, putting yourself as the centre of your world and like honouring the things you like in your dreams. And then the third one for me is figure out, cause life isn't just you, but work out the people that really matter. Like you being one of them, family, your 100% ride or die friends. They matter a great deal.

So actually being self-centred means putting yourself and anyone that's deeply important to you in the centre. I completely agree with that. Like if you needed me and I was tired or my body was like, oh no, I'm there in a heartbeat. Well, providing it's not by text because you probably wouldn't read it. But yeah, I get if it's real life, I'm there the same with a couple of friends. If you're going for it, like I don't care what I'm going through. I'm there. I'm on the phone. So there are times where you should be overriding your self-comfort or your self-centeredness, but it's for a very limited group of like, like your closest closest people where people

pleasers get that wrong is they give that gift, they try and give that gift to everybody. Yeah. And I think really important to say actually, because I don't think I would have made this clear, being self-centered, putting yourself first, that doesn't mean put other people down. Like if you can bring people with you and support and encourage, it just means don't sacrifice yourself. Oh, that's good. That's really good. Because you can be selfish and an asshole and that's not the same thing.

That's so true. You know, I think of it in terms of music again, I always go back to, I was out for dinner last night with a group of guys who wrote and produced my album. They're really good friends. We did this thing together and we're celebrating it together and they've earned money from it and they've gotten a top 10 award from it. I had to be self-centred in order for us all to get there. I'm going to do my own project. Yeah, it's wild. So, lovely place to of sum up. And I do have one thing that's like dropped in my head. Oh dear. I think it's a good thing. Oh, okay. Which is stop trying to be liked by everybody else and just start trying to like yourself as the one person people pleases always forget to

please. It's cheesy but I love it. Yeah. I'm here for it. Love it. Feels like a good place to end. If you have enjoyed this episode, please leave a lovely review. Give us a bit of people pleasing.

Like, follow, all that jazz. And if you haven't, I don't care. See you next week.