Lateral with Tom Scott - 113: 'Sheep' or 'Book'?
Episode Date: December 6, 2024Tom Crawford, Katelyn Heling and Evan Heling face questions about hockey hat tricks, glass gaffes and security SIMs. BOOK OUT NOW!: https://www.lateralcast.com/book LATERAL is a comedy panel game podc...ast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Anson Wong, A.W., Greg Weller. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
In ice hockey, what three things make up a Gordie Howe hat trick?
The answer to that at the end of the show.
My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome to the show that your parents call That Roundabout Logic Thing.
Or The Diagonal Thinking Program.
Or, y-y- Or, you know, him.
Him.
Trying to remember why they've all put the remote,
first we welcome back to the show,
Makers Extraordinaire, Evan and Kaitlyn.
Welcome back.
Ooh, thanks for having us.
Yes, we're so excited.
We've been looking forward to coming back
ever since we left the last time.
This is such a fun game for us.
Oh, it's lovely to hear,
because we ask a lot of folks on this show, like,
there is a lot of brain power required here.
We love it.
We love being tested.
The last time I saw your videos, you were making a tungsten dice.
Like the heaviest possible dice.
Do you still have that somewhere?
Is that just weighing down a shelf?
It is weighing down a shelf currently.
It's in one of our backdrops.
It's a joy to roll,
but also you have to choose where you roll it very carefully
because it is 20 pounds.
It's a weapon and you really don't want to drop it
on your toe.
It's a closed-toed shoes only activity to roll it.
You need safety shoes to play Dungeons and Dragons.
Yes.
Yes.
What other stuff have you been working on?
Because last time I saw you, it was out at Open Source in California.
Which is a great event.
Love it.
Um...
We're working on, currently, and I don't know exactly when this is going live, but we're
working on our annual pumpkin project where we try to preserve a carved pumpkin in resin
forever.
It usually fails in some way, which is why we keep doing it and trying new methods.
This is year five.
Yeah, this is year five.
I remember footage of you drilling into one of them afterwards
and just having goo leak out, which...
Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, they rot inside of the resin cages
and they build up pressure,
and we were worried that this one was gonna explode,
so we had to do a controlled release of the pressure.
You had to do trepanation on a pumpkin. That's amazing.
Yes.
Well, very best of luck with the show today.
You are joined by a new player to lateral.
He is a mathematics fellow at the University of Oxford and the University of Cambridge,
and his YouTube channel is Tom Rocks Maths.
He has just come back from travelling the world doing maths engagement.
Tom Crawford, welcome to the show.
Pleasure to be here, Tom.
I've been looking forward to this ever since you followed me on Instagram about a year ago.
So I don't know if I'm allowed to reveal that, but that's how we got in touch.
It is lovely to have you on the show.
Tell us about the travels. What have you been doing
the last few months?
Yeah, so I had a load of talk invitations in these far places and I figured I'm going
to turn it into a whole trip. So I took a sabbatical, went and did a whole host of talks
in 15 different countries, which was really fun, and attempted to write a book. But attempted being the key word,
because, you know, spending five months travelling around 15 countries
doesn't leave much time for actual writing.
Yes.
So my editor's not very happy with that.
But, you know, I loved the trip, and the book has started.
Which, to be honest, is more than most potential authors ever manage.
I agree. I agree. I'm glad we're on the same team.
The Toms have got each other's back. Have you been listening to Lateral? Which, to be honest, is more than most potential authors ever manage. I agree, I agree. I'm glad we're on the same team.
The Toms have got each other's back.
Have you been listening to Lateral? Is this a surprise to you, or do you know what's coming?
I have listened to a few episodes, but I felt like, given the vibe I got of the show,
I think I'm probably better prepared, having less of an idea of what's going to happen.
And the mathematics knowledge, looking at the questions that I can see in front of me,
is not really going to help at all.
So very best of luck to you and to all of our players.
And as host of what your parents call that out-of-the-box show, it's my job to get us
going.
So let's rip open the parcel tape and unpack question one.
In 1874, Gustave de Laval started his own company to manufacture bottles,
using his technique of rapidly rotating molten glass instead of manual glassblowing.
However, the business soon proved to be a financial failure.
Why?
And I'll give you that one more time.
In 1874, Gustave de Laval started his own company to manufacture bottles,
using his technique of rapidly rotating molten glass
instead of manual glass blowing.
However, the business soon proved to be a financial failure.
Why?
Kaitlin and I have made small glass beads,
so we have the very, like, we have 1% of knowledge
about working with glass,
which probably will do us no good to answer this question.
Um, I'm also thinking, interestingly, after Tom was telling me my math knowledge would not help,
this to me sounds like a fluid dynamics problem. The way that because the glass is going to, as I'm thinking, I'm picturing you're rotating it, it's going to spread out
due to centripetal, centrifugal, coriolis force.
One of the rotational forces is going to cause it to spread out.
This is what your PhD was in, right?
Fluid dynamics?
My PhD was in fluid dynamics, exactly.
Yeah.
So you saying my math knowledge wouldn't help, I don't think it answers the question, but
it feels like it's relevant.
Maybe.
Now, I think the thing is, if everyone is doing it one way
and this guy is doing it a different way,
is it just that he can't get enough sourced parts?
Like not all of the standard components work for his method.
So his method is just more expensive
just because he's the only one doing it.
Or if he has to put a lot of money
into training employees to do it.
Yeah, I mean, there's so many standard, non-twisty logic answers that come to mind.
And I can dismiss them out of hand, because I'm like,
—'cause this is lateral. —it's too simple of an answer.
Yes.
Yeah, I can tell you that the new manufacturing process worked really well.
So, if it worked really well, then it must have been really expensive.
worked really well. So if it worked really well, then it must have been really expensive.
It must have cost so much that he couldn't have made any money from doing it.
Or were his competitors jealous of him, so they sabotaged him?
So did the question tell us why he stopped?
I've completely forgotten the question already.
The business proved to be a financial failure.
Okay, so it was, right.
So it is something money-related.
It failed financially, not functionally.
Yes.
Which, I mean, makes me think that there's something about the new method that just,
like, wasn't cost-effective.
I don't know if, like, for some reason you would, like, go through more glass doing it
that way.
Like, there would be more waste or something?
At the risk of giving away the answer?
I don't think you could be more wrong.
Oh my God. Oh.
Oh, so it's the opposite of what you just...
It made too much money.
It was too efficient with the use of glass?
I mean, that's where my brain goes, but I don't understand.
How can something be too efficient?
I mean, maybe there's something in how...
Ooh, ooh, I have an idea. Oh, it's like water bottles.
Okay, you know how to reduce the use of plastic,
they made water bottles like thinner and flimsier,
and then people didn't like them.
So, was it more efficient with the use of glass,
and then people, like it didn't use as. So was it more efficient with the use of glass and then people like
it didn't use as much glass per bottle. And so people didn't like the bottles as much
because they didn't feel as like heavy and high quality.
Or is it the size that it made? Maybe it could only make a certain size bottle. And everyone
was so used to that, you know, it's like when you buy a bottle of Coke, a bottle of beer,
there's a size, there's a certain shape and size that you're expecting. So maybe this method, like
you're saying, gave something that felt different or had a different shape and therefore wasn't
popular.
It was very popular. These were great glass bottles.
What he did is he made so many so high high quality, that he saturated the market, he flooded it,
he took care of all of the glass bottle needs of his area, and then no one was buying any
more glass bottles.
It was the opposite of planned obsolescence.
He did too good of a job, and he put himself out of business.
Yes, exactly right.
He caused a collapse in the price of glass bottles.
Yes!
Oh my gosh. He was too good!
He out-engineered himself!
Yep. Because before then, every glass bottle had to be manufactured by a human
making a bottle with glass blowing.
And all of a sudden, actually we don't need that anymore.
We can just mass-produce loads of them.
And what's the key thing about glass bottles compared to, like, a lot of the stuff today?
They're reusable.
Yeah, they're reusable.
They're reusable.
Exactly right.
So he filled the market with glass bottles, the price crashed, and suddenly the factory
was no longer necessary.
Ah, it's so exciting when you get the answer.
It's actually basically the same story as, or you could say it's the same story, as what has just happened with Tupperware, the company.
Right. They make these incredibly long lasting, reusable plastic containers and they've made them so good, nobody buys more Tupperware,
so now the business has just come back root.
It's this thing about building something that is just too good for the world.
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them.
We'll start today with Caitlin.
So the question is, in a 2020 online challenge popularized by the Getty Museum,
why did someone submit a photo of a halved avocado and two spoons?
I'll read it one more time.
In a 2020 online challenge popularized by the Getty Museum,
why did someone submit a photo of a halved avocado and two spoons?
Is the challenge to recreate like a famous piece of art?
I was thinking that.
Because it's 2020, this is going to be like a lockdown challenge that the Getty is doing
to try and get some public engagement going, surely.
Or was it to submit your own new piece of art?
Like, lockdown art.
Can you create, I don't know, an interesting photo or piece of art in your house, perhaps?
It occurs to me that I've driven past the Getty,
like the hill that the Getty is on so many times,
and I don't actually know what the Getty Museum is.
Ha ha ha ha!
I was about to ask that.
I'm a Shoei Gar, I actually don't know either.
I'm guessing it's a museum.
You've been there.
I have?
Yes!
I've been to a lot of museums, I forget!
You've been there with me!
And it was so memorable, I loved it.
I loved it so much.
When was that again?
Here are my Getty facts that I know.
It is a rich guy's collection.
It is on a hill in Los Angeles, and there is a monorail that goes to it.
Spot my priorities about art.
Well, your guesses are correct that it is an art museum.
And that does have to do with, you know, the answer to this question.
I think that you were on to something interesting, Tom, with the lockdown.
Now, interestingly, when I talk to Tom,
which Tom am I talking to?
Do I need to do Tom?
Just say Tom.
Tom, and it can be ambiguous.
Okay, perfect.
Yeah, it's fine.
Now, the lockdown challenge, that's an interesting angle.
Maybe it's just like a submit what you're eating food
contest.
Two spoons and a half avocado.
Yeah.
What would that look like?
Can we, like, is there an obvious thing that, you know,
if you were, in your mind, if you had two spoons and avocado,
what shape are you creating?
Like, how does it look in your head?
Maybe that gives us a clue.
Yeah, because in my head, it's like a top-down view,
like you've got a plate,
and instead of the knife and fork there's two spoons.
But you could also stick the spoons in vertically, there's 3D elements to this.
Like legs or arms, you know? Like a Mr. Potato Head, Mr. Avocado Head, I don't know.
So I will say that the shape that the avocado and the two spoons make is relevant.
Oh.
This is a stupid question.
But I'm assuming the avocado is halved as you would normally halve an avocado.
It's not just been cut through the middle of the stone horizontally.
Like a savage.
That's how I cut an avocado.
I was picturing that.
It's cut how you would normally half it and the pit is removed.
Oh, the pit is removed.
Is that?
I don't want to ask any more questions.
I'll let my brain think for a bit.
So is it?
Okay, I need to clarify this because I apparently cut avocados weird.
So if you were to view it from above, is it circular?
Or is it the kind of elongated?
Okay, it's the elongated.
Elongated, yes.
Okay, so this is not, okay, I cut avocados the other way.
All right, I'm the world-
Savage.
You savage.
Wow, okay.
I can say something specific about the spoons.
When you're viewing the spoons,
it's not how you would normally lay them down,
like at a place setting. They're on their sides.
On their sides?
So that you're seeing the long view of the spoon.
Like, imagine it on a place setting, but you rotate it on its side.
Yeah.
Then they're almost like hands holding the avocado?
That kind of picture is...
It's Scream! It's Scream!
It's the Scream piece of art, right?
The face is the avocado and the scrims.
Oh, well done.
It looked like the Scream by Edvard Munch.
Yeah, so during the lockdown, there was a Dutch Instagram account that I'm going to
try to pronounce.
Toosin Coonstin Quarantine.
And they did a challenge that was basically submit your own at-home recreations of famous art pieces.
And so this is one of the pieces submitted.
That's lovely. Out of nowhere, Tom.
No, no, not out of nowhere. That was...
You gave me that other Tom.
Because when you said the spoons,
you said the spoons were like hands holding the avocado.
Yeah. And you had your hands like this.
And I was just, I don't know, I think you recreated the scream for us.
Also, I am now other Tom in this call.
Thank you for that. That's just...
That's how the dice have rolled. That's my job now.
Yeah, you have to get one right to become the primary Tom again.
The Lateral Book is out now, with loads of questions that have never been asked on this
show and never will be.
Go to LateralCast.com to get your copy now.
Alright, next one's for me, folks.
Good luck.
A special coin has a hand holding a book on one side and some sheep on the other.
What three-word phrases are engraved on each side?
And one more time, a special coin has a hand holding a book on one side and some sheep
on the other.
What three-word phrases are engraved on each side?
Three-word phrases engraved on each side.
So is it two three-word phrases?
Yeah, is it two three-word phrases? Or the same one? Two different three-word phrases. Two three-word phrases. I on each side. So is it two three-word phrases? Yeah, is it two three-word phrases or the same one?
Okay, two different three-word phrases.
I like book, I like sheep.
Live, laugh, love.
Is it the same hand?
So is it one hand holding a book
and one hand holding a micro sheep?
Oh no, one side is hand holding a book,
the other side is sheep.
Alright.
And I'm just going to put a flag in Evan's I like book, I like sheep.
Because it's not that, but we're going to come back to it later.
Okay, it's Latin for I like books, I like sheep.
I'm also trying to think of where you would find this coin.
Is it a coin from a certain country?
Is it a collectible coin you'd get from a museum or a library?
It could be one of those collectibles where you stick in a penny and you crush it into
a new shape and create a new coin.
Or it could be actual usable currency. What's the link between a sheep and someone holding,
well, a hand holding a buck?
The intro of Beauty and the Beast.
There's a sheep in the Beauty and the Beast?
I'm pretty sure there's sheep
when she's frolicking through the town.
I'm pretty sure there's a sheep.
She's definitely holding a buck.
I'm like 90% sure there's sheep.
Uh... It's not a Disney collectible. I can build that around if you like. Okay. He presents her with her sheep.
It's not a Disney collectible. You can build that mountain if you like.
Okay.
So we have no clue what the language is.
It could be any language.
It could be a coin from anywhere.
I'll tell you it's English.
We're not that cruel on that.
English. Okay.
Okay, okay.
So it's not like...
Okay, that's good.
Okay.
I think if I'm holding a buck, then there's a sheep, like, am I
reading a manual with instructions on how to be a farmer?
Am I, am I reading, learning how to knit?
Um, I, I don't know instructions on how to look after a pet sheep.
Maybe it's a recipe.
Maybe it's dark and it's like make love to you.
Is there a children's book?
Little Bo Peep?
Baa Baa Black Sheep?
Well, that's a poem. Or a nursery rhyme.
The book is open, but you can't really read what's on it, other than the three-word inscription.
Are the three words on the book, or are they elsewhere on the coin?
I've got a little picture of it. They are on the book, but they're not, they're not
like part of the book, if that makes sense.
Oh, okay, okay. So they're just like overlaid onto the book.
Yeah.
But they're not part of the book.
Could it be something to do with like the Bible? I feel like there are a lot of shepherds in the Bible.
Ooh.
Or, you know, or the Torah or something else from that kind of time, You know, going back 2,000 years.
If I tell you that the side with the sheep
also shows a couple of feet poking out from a blanket...
That might be a clue.
What?!
Okay, this is all about coziness.
A couple of feet.
So, two feet.
Two feet.
Sticking out from a blanket.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, wait, wait. Is it like a sleepy time poem?
Why do you think sleepy time?
Well, because there's books about counting sheep to go to sleep.
Is it like a, is it when you're about to go to bed and it's like, I don't know, it's like
a game you play where you flip the coin and if it lands on the book side, flip the coin, and if it lands on the buck side, you read a book,
and if it lands on the sheep side, you count sheep.
You've got most of it there.
What?
Yes.
Okay, so we need to think of the words.
So, like, count some sheep, read a book?
Yes.
What dilemma might you be resolving here?
Oh, you can't sleep.
How to fall asleep.
Imagine a really avid reader here, or someone with a really good book.
You're not reading to go to sleep.
Keep on reading or go to sleep.
Correct.
It's like you flip it.
Yes. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhhhh The exact words are go to bed and one more chapter. But yes, that is a coin that you can buy from someone on Etsy
that lets you flip there to decide whether you just go to sleep and start counting sheep
or whether you are just going to do one more chapter.
Wow!
I do not know how we got that.
That was teamwork.
Like, Evan, you made the connection to sleep. Tom, you made the connection
to reading. Yes, you've got it absolutely right. It is a comm- not really a commemorative
coin but a coin to give to the book reader who's still awake at 2am just wanting to do
one more chapter.
Tom, it is over to you for the next question.
Okay, so my question is as follows. The logo for the UEFA Euro 2024 Championships
was the trophy surrounded by a band of 24 stripes around the trophy.
These stripes were red, yellow, green, black, white and blue with repeats.
What was their meaning?
So there's a lot going on so I will repeat. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Okay. The logo for the UEFA Euro 2024 championships, so football tournament,
was the trophy surrounded by a band of 24 stripes around the trophy. These stripes were red, yellow, green, black, white and blue.
With some repeats, what was their meaning?
I mean my first instinct is that like the... did you say was this an international tournament
trophy?
Yeah, the Euros are the every four year. World Cup, but just for Europe.
Of soccer.
So, my first instinct is that the colours either have to correspond to flags of some sort,
or like the jersey colours.
Yeah, because 24 feels like the number of teams that are going to be in a tournament like that.
But also, 24 is the year.
They are both correct statements.
Oh. Oh.
Huh.
So do you put them together in some way?
Well, I'm also like, if I'm just picturing jerseys in general,
and I am not a big sports person here,
but I feel like the color palettes are,
like there are often repeated colors.
It'll just be like yellow with white versus yellow with black,
or, you know, whatever.
But you're not getting a lot of, like, nuanced colours.
No.
No.
I was thinking it might be like a fossil record of the team colours
of whoever won each year.
Like, you're starting at 2000 and going 24,
but also the tournament's been going— No, that makes no sense, because it's every four years.
That's a stupid idea.
They don't hold this every year.
And also, there are going to be a lot of countries who are going to be annoyed that their colour
is not precisely right on there.
For the colours, is there a certain pattern that they're repeated in, or is it
seemingly random when you look at it?
I think if you were to look at it, it's not repeated.
So it's not the order I've read out.
The order I read out the colors is not repeated in any way.
But it's not random.
There is a meaning to the ordering of the colors.
Katelyn, as a graphic designer,
I'm just trying to picture this in my head.
It looks like bulky and clunky,
like the trophy and then like 24 bands of color.
That's a decent amount of space.
How do you go about it?
Would they be thick?
Would they be thin?
And like, what, like, you know,
from the graphic designer perspective, like why would you do something like that? How do you go about it?
because, yeah, otherwise, like, no one...
I don't think anyone would design it that way,
with so much bulk and detail.
Like, that's not great for a logo.
No.
Something that is obvious to a Brit who saw some of the Euros this year
is that it's not teams playing,
it's countries playing.
These are national teams competing.
Not like... It's England, not Manchester United. Ah, okay.
Okay.
Interesting.
Thanks for the additional context.
I don't think it's going to help, but...
I mean, the random order does make me wonder if you were on to something earlier,
like if it does have to do...
With like, historical record or something.
Yeah.
Because otherwise, why would it be in a random order?
Unless it's representing the countries in like, geographical order?
Like, if the stripes are vertical and they go west to east,
you've got 24 countries by which order you go?
I don't know where I was going with that, but...
So, if I can maybe describe the logo, possibly. So, you have the trophy in the center,
and then, which is just kind of like a typical trophy shape.
And then behind it, imagine there's kind of a big oval.
And then coming out of the center of the oval is the 24 stripes.
Oh, so it's like a sunburst effect.
Yes, like a sunburst kind of effect.
Oh!
That's not as ugly as I thought.
I was picturing concentric rings.
Yeah, I was thinking that too.
Okay.
No, like a sunburst.
Yeah, so if you imagine a circle and then slicing it up into thin 24 triangular pizza
slice segments.
But it's a bit more oval.
What country was it held in this year?
Was it Germany?
I think it was Germany this year.
Yeah.
So I'm thinking, rather than time, space.
So each of these stripes points in the direction of a country that was in the contest,
because Germany is...
It's not central central, but there's...
I can think of countries that are north, south, east, and west from it.
So they've just kind of picked vaguely the right direction,
and the colour represents that country's team.
I love the idea, but how...
What colour would you pick?
Like, how would you select the colour?
Just to follow through your idea, how would you select the colour?
From their flag?
Or like, their jersey colour?
So is it like, national colour?
No, because then the Netherlands will be angry that orange is not on it.
Can you list the colours one more time?
Yes, absolutely.
Red, yellow, green, black, white and blue. So just to come back to something you mentioned
other Tom.
The Netherlands.
You started it now.
I know. I know. It's going to be a thing. It's going to be a thing.
So you said orange for the Netherlands, but that's going to be their kit. So if you kind
of focus more on the flag, what would be the colors of the
Netherlands flag?
Well, the colors of the Netherlands flag are blue, white, red, I think? Horizontal?
Uh-huh.
So, so many flags do have multiple colors, so like, I don't know if like one stripe...
How would you reduce each country to one color?
Yeah, I don't know if one stripe equals one flag. Unless someone did something really clever
and made it that every country has all its colors in the right order
or something close to it.
Because England has a cross on its flag, so that doesn't quite count.
But no matter which country you're from,
you can look around those 24 bands,
and somewhere you will see your flag.
And if colours happen to match, you can just...
They can merge two of them together,
because it doesn't matter what country,
you'll see your flag in there somewhere.
Yes, exactly that.
Ah!
Exactly that.
Well done to that, designer.
And I like how you said someone's done something very clever.
Because I also thought this was very clever.
So it's not just all 24 nations who are in the tournament,
it's actually all 55 UEFA member nations are represented.
But I think it was 24 stripes because there were 24 in the tournament.
But yes, all of them appear,
although there's a little bit of artistic license. So Ireland, who do have orange,
it's orange slash gold slash yellow, and it's represented by yellow. So there is a little bit
of artistic license. But yeah, they're all there. All 55 UEFA member nations are around in a loop around the trophy.
It's very clever.
Thank you to AW for sending this question in.
A security company in one country supplies alarm systems to local customers.
However, they are fitted with SIM cards issued in a neighbouring country.
Why? I'll give you that one more time.
A security company in one country
supplies alarm systems to local customers.
However, they're fitted with SIM cards
issued in a neighboring country.
Why?
I wonder if it's something to do with legal
or privacy concerns.
My first thought was privacy,
because like, if...
I mean, I don't know how this would work, but if someone was trying to hack into your
security system, they would assume that all the parts are from like your local country,
maybe.
Yeah.
I don't know. But it's strange because SIM cards are for wireless connections,
and the radios need to connect to towers,
so it's weird that SIM cards would be from another country
connecting to local towers,
unless the towers were also from another country.
Yeah, should we establish what a SIM card is here?
The thing you put in your phone.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, not everyone listening will understand what that is.
So, Tom?
Okay, what is a SIM card?
A SIM card is the little chip that goes inside your mobile phone that then gives you your
data or your phone number to allow you to then connect to the cloud, the internet, the magic
thing that allows us to talk to everybody else.
Yeah, but SIM cards aren't only in cell phones.
They're in all sorts of smart enabled devices now, not just security systems, but also like
terminals and monitoring devices and all sorts of stuff.
So it like give you...
Here it's like giving you access to the internet
or giving you access to communication
without relying on the internet.
Like, relying on...
Oh, because someone could like cut the power to your house
and then you want it to still work.
So you could still have a SIM card to send out a signal.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's clever.
I like that as a part of the alarm system. Yeah. Does it have I like that as part of the alarm system.
Does it have to do with who is monitoring the alarm system and what country they're in?
So could the company installing the alarms be from the neighbouring country,
but for whatever reason does all their business over the border?
No. The local customers are in the same country as the company.
Is it a really, really small country?
Is it like a Monaco or like a Lichtenstein or a San Marino?
One of these principalities where...
AW did not specify the country in question, and I think that maybe because they work in
this industry and know this a little more precisely than they're letting on. Because I'm just wondering, you know, maybe like in Liechtenstein you cannot get a company
that will install your alarm, so therefore you have to go to neighbouring Switzerland
and they pop over the border and do it for you, and that's maybe why.
In this case the two countries involved don't matter.
Just that they're fairly close.
I wonder if it has to do with, like, state monitoring or, like,
privacy concerns. That's what my mind keeps on going back to.
For some reason. Maybe just because I'm paranoid.
Ha ha ha!
Or, like, would it be somewhere where, like,
it's just not... cost-effective to produce SIM cards in that country?
Actually, this method is a little more costly,
but it's also much more effective.
Okay. That makes me think it does go back to, like,
the actual privacy or security or something.
Like, there's a functional reason for it.
But other times, that's effective.
Yeah, it is more effective.
So, therefore, could it be that the country
where you're installing the alarm
has a terrible communications network? Right, maybe their system of towers, as Evan said, maybe their system of towers is just awful.
So they're like, but we can put a SIM card in from a different country and use their really good
network so we can get the alarm quicker. If the network's in the other country,
you're not going to be able to connect to it, though.
Some cards of country A are installed in country B, but they must be using towers in country
B, because the range of towers is only, like, measured in miles.
So it's not about where they can connect, there's some other reason.
Have a think about what happens when you travel to another country.
Roaming charges.
So the company...
Okay.
Because Tom was saying it's more expensive, but it's better.
Yeah.
So are they like purposefully making their customers pay roaming charges so that they make more money?
You've got the first part. It's not about the charges, but they are purposefully roaming.
It's going to be more expensive, but why?
Okay, the roaming thing I feel like is a big clue. So if you're roaming, then your location
to someone hacking into the system will not be given away. So if someone, like, hacks
into your alarm system,
they won't know where your house is because you're roaming.
So they'll think you're in a different country
than the one you're in.
So it's more secure.
Is there something about the roaming that's more like
reliable for some reason?
I don't know.
Yes, yes there is.
What might that be?
When you're roaming, like in the US there are like,
three or four major carriers.
And if I have a SIM card for carrier A,
I can't connect to carrier B, C, and D.
But when you're roaming, I think you connect to all of them
and you just pay a little bit of an extra fee.
Yes.
So therefore there's more redundancy,
so it's more reliable.
Yes.
Spot on. You are absolutely right, Evan.
So this is deliberate roaming.
Yeah, say it was the UK, you could buy a SIM card for any one of five big networks we've got.
But if that goes down, there's no backup.
If you have a card from France or the Netherlands or whatever's nearby,
you won't be able to connect to all of them,
but they will have multiple arrangements, they will be able to connect to multiple networks,
and when the most important thing is it works no matter what, that is why they use SIM cards
from another country.
Wow.
So interesting.
Sometimes I don't know how we get to these answers, but we somehow do.
It's just a team effort chipping away.
Yeah.
Evan, with that, it is over to you for your question.
This question has been sent in by Greg Weller. During a typical workday, Ruth
will repeatedly use words such as redwood, dragon, springbok, dynasty, and shamrock. What is her
job and what do these words represent? I'll say that again. During a typical workday,
Ruth will repeatedly use words such as redwood, dragon, springbok, dynasty, and shamrock.
What is her job and what do these words represent?
Tom and Caitlin, I'm afraid this one's on you.
You know it?
I do know it. Sorry.
Okay. I mean, my first instinct was like trying to put these words together in some sort of like,
oh, she's an author and she's like writing about dragons and forests and stuff.
But, but I feel like it's probably not that obvious.
And I wonder if these are like code words for something like project spring block, project
shamrock.
I don't know.
So my first thought was, are they to do with certain countries?
So for me, the shamrock and the springbok.
What is a...
Springbok is the South Africa. It's like a deer gazelle like creature.
Oh, okay. I didn't know what that was.
I only know it because the rugby team are called the springboks.
Okay.
Don't know why I know that, but...
I mean, in that case, it could be country related.
Can you go through the words one more time?
I'll say, I'll emphasize one thing.
She'll repeatedly use words such as redwood, dragon,
springbok, dynasty, and shamrock.
Okay, so-
These are just examples.
These are just one, two, three, four, five examples
of such words.
And she uses these words multiple times a day in her work?
Repeatedly, yes. Repeatedly.
So they're pretty niche words.
Yeah. At least some of them.
Yeah, like they're pretty specific.
They're not like words with multiple meanings.
So would it be like a teaching style thing?
I'm assuming it's not just teaching people
English or something.
But I wonder whether they are examples
of a specific type of word or a specific pronunciation
that means there's like a teaching element to it.
Yeah, and like what do these words have in common?
Like is there any through line?
Like going back to your example
of like teaching someone English,
like if you're using words that are like not said
the way that they're spelled,
if you have like neighbor and colonel and you know,
then that would make sense
I'm trying to think if there's anything linking these words
I'll just jump in here
The funniest thing is both of you started in a very good place and you guys have wandered very far away
You started out I was like I'm not gonna need to use any of these clues
In a totally different direction.
And I just saw Tom's face go like,
just like, oh, they're wandering farther and farther.
Okay, I'll let you go back to it.
Thank you for not calling me other Tom.
I appreciate it.
I got confused.
I was like, I don't think I said anything.
Okay, so that makes me think that we were maybe onto something with the countries,
like these being words to represent countries.
And you said author, and you mentioned something about her being an author and writing.
And Evan said we were both onto something good.
So, who would be writing about specific countries?
I'll be honest. The only thing you've got so far is countries.
Okay.
Okay, countries, countries. We can latch onto that.
I'll give one thing. One clue.
It's important that Ruth says these words clearly.
Okay, so she's communicating with someone
that might have a hard time understanding
her if she didn't communicate clearly.
So that could mean like through a radio or it could mean someone that doesn't speak English.
Although we kind of went down that route and Evan was like, no, you're going the wrong
way.
So maybe radio, radio, like it would be hard to understand her.
I was about to say, is it like, not what is it?
The phonetic, not the phonetic alphabet.
The one where you start like alpha, bravo.
That's phonetic.
But then I was, okay.
But then I was like, I don't think D is dragon
or phonetic is another, so maybe not.
You were onto something when you said like,
when you were talking about South African,
like simplifying down to like Springbok and everything,
like that was a really good link right there.
Okay, I don't know why this popped into my head.
Is it something to do with like air traffic control
and you have like a code name for the country
and Springbok would be something to do with South Africa?
Correct, you got it.
Springbok is South African Airlines. Caitlin had do with South Africa. Correct, you got it. Springbok is South African airlines.
Caitlin had it with Radio Link.
These are said over the radio.
They need to be said clearly.
Also, you said like one of your first things is like,
maybe these words are code names or shorthand.
Yeah.
So it's like you had it so close in the beginning,
like shorthand for country airlines and stuff like that.
Now, before I answer fully and reveal everything,
do you wanna guess what the other words are shorthand for?
Redwood?
Oh my.
Do you have any ideas of what airline that could-
California.
Yes, yes.
California something, yeah.
Virgin Atlantic.
Okay.
Due to its base in California, home of the redwood trees.
Okay, dragon. I wanna say Wales, home of the redwood trees. Okay. Dragon.
I want to say Wales, but I don't think they have an airline.
Welsh Air.
It's very close.
Dragon Air.
So, it's Hong Kong.
Oh, Air.
Yeah.
So, you got Springbok, South African Airlines.
So for Shamrock, what do you think Shamrock would be?
Island?
That's got to be Aer Lingus.
Yep, Aer Lingus.
That's it.
You guys are good.
So, to summarize...
So, hang on, we still had dynasty?
Dynasty.
Oh, dynasty is... do you want to guess what dynasty is?
Texas.
It's gonna be... I'm thinking...
Or have I got it confused with Dallas?
Like, the word dynasty is that old drama.
We live in Texas, so I feel like...
Is there an airline based in Texas?. We live in Texas, so I feel like...
Is there an airline based in Texas?
Is Southwest based in Texas?
Southwest?
Maybe Air China?
That's it!
Air China, China Airlines!
Oh, yeah!
So, to summarize, those were all call signs used by air traffic controllers as a shorter
way of referring to an airline.
Which just leaves us with the question from the start of the show.
Thank you to Anson Wong for sending this in.
In ice hockey, what three things make up a Gordie Howe hat trick?
Anyone want to take a guess?
A goal, an assist, and being sent off.
It's not being sent off. You've got the first two.
Simbind, Simbind. Oh. Simbend, simbend!
Hockey simbend.
Go even more stereotypical.
Fight.
A fight?
Yes, that is correct.
A goal, an assist and a fight is a Gordie Howe hat trick.
This is from the 1950s.
Gordie Howe played 1,767 NHL games from 1949 to 1980.
He retired at the age of 52, he is the second all-time highest goal scorer for the entire
NHL, and he only did the hat-trick twice in his own career.
I don't know how many fights he had.
I mean, apparently a lot.
Is it more or less than his number of goals and assists?
I'm assuming less.
Thank you very much to all of our players.
Congratulations on getting through the questions.
What's going on in your lives?
Where can people find you?
We will start with Tom.
Tom Rocks Maths, or Tom Crawford, will lead you to the various things that I do.
So if you want to learn some maths, just give it a Google, Tom Rocks Maths.
And I feel strange treating two players as a single entity, but it is literally in your
channel name.
Evan and Caitlin, what's going on with you?
We have too many channels these days, so just search Evan and Caitlin on YouTube and see
what pops up.
And Caitlin, what sort of things are you working on in the next few months?
Well, our pumpkin video should be out so you can see if the pumpkin survives the resin.
And we're also doing an office makeover.
We're doing something normal for once.
Yeah, back to our roots.
Well, thank you very much to all of you.
If you want to know more about this show,
you can do that at lateralcast.com,
where you can also send in your own ideas for questions.
We are at Lateralcast, basically everywhere,
and you can get video highlights at youtube.com slash
lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Evan and Caitlin.
Yay!
Thanks for having us.
To Tom Crawford.
Loved it, thank you.
I've been other Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.