Lateral with Tom Scott - 136: Kayaking by umbrella

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Inés Dawson, Jenny Draper and Virginia Schutte face questions about numerous ninjas, communal cycling and medieval marketplaces. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Hilary Barry at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Evvie Jo, Zilland, Ólafur Waage, Fernando de Querol, Christopher Henney-Turner. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is LATTRAL. Sorry, folks. I think this script is from the people who used the studio before us, but it's going to have to do. Hello, my name's Peter Stockton, and welcome to another edition of Me and My Pencil. We're the number one podcast for fans of graphite bars encased in wood pulp tubes. Coming up today, what's the ideal sharpening angle? There's news about new finger grip patterns, and we have a bumper mailbag in reaction to last week's heated debate, traditional versus mechanical. Firstly, we have someone who's been using the same pencil since 2007.

It's Marine Biology PhD, and in her own words, also a mom that makes stuff for the internet. Welcome back to the show, Virginia Schutte. Hi, thank you. I'm very attached to my pencil. The last time we talked, you were just about to head off to Antarctica, and we haven't chatted since, so in the 30 seconds allocated for this in the show, how was Antarctica? It was amazing. That's under 30 seconds.

There you go. It was so good. What did you get up to out there? We went to the wrong side of Antarctica. Most people go to a very predictable spot near South America, because that's where the continent's closest to where people usually live. We went way far away from that. And it was like being in a Star Wars episode every day, a different landscape that just seems unimaginable, but so, so cool. Which also wonderfully applies to the questions in this show. So very best of luck today.

Next up, with a collection of over 200 erasers of various types, it's a PhD in biomechanics from Draw Curiosity on YouTube and Twitch. Welcome back. Inés Laura Dorson. It is so great to be back. What are you working on at the minute? What's the big projects for you? Right now I'm working on a bunch of different projects.

I am doing some big science stream projects, such as the Science of Contraception on Twitch, as well as some things for Women's Day, International Women's Day. And on YouTube, I am finally working on the video that everyone wants which is how much did the braid away when I cut my hair off? Five years ago. Whoa.

I'm terrified what pencil secrets you've found out about me. Finally please welcome the number one London fan of pencil sharpeners. We have tour guide and author of the book Mavericks that I completely forgot to plug last time, Jay Draper, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me, it's lovely to be here. I mean, tell us about Mavericks, because I feel like we slightly skipped over the actual book last time. That's very sweet of you. Mavericks is about 24 people throughout history who've had weird lives. Either they've chosen to do something strange with their life or life has done something

strange to them. Give us a couple of names. Who have you covered in that? So we talk about Sabrina Sidney, who was the subject of a bizarre child-raising experiment in the 18th century. We talk about William Buckland, who was a paleontologist who ate his way through the animal kingdom. And we talk about Ellen and William Kraft,

who escaped slavery in the American South by fleeing over a thousand miles across country with Ellen dressed as a white man. And all those are available in the book and will be discussed no further on this podcast. That is the best promo I can give you. Thank you. Well, as we always say on this podcast. That is the best promo I can give you. Thank you. Well, as we always say on this show, every pencil has a point and every point has a story.

With that in mind, let's write a new chapter with question one. This question has been sent in by Fernando de Cuero. When touring around a coastline or river by kayak, why is it particularly useful to bring an umbrella? One more time. When touring around a coastline or river by kayak, why is it particularly useful to bring an umbrella? One more time, when touring around a coastline or river by kayak, why is it particularly useful to bring an umbrella? Are you putting the umbrella upside down

and floating it on the water, or carrying something in it upside down? Does it work? Ooh, bird poop. Oh, I was gonna say live birds. I've been attacked by a swan in a kayak before, and I wished I had an umbrella. I've been attacked by a coot in a kayak. A coot?

And then shortly thereafter, I was no longer in the kayak. A coot got you out of the kayak? No, no, no, no. I stand by this. They look like tiny little birds. They are tiny little birds. I'm just paddling along, and I get too close to a nest that I don't know is there, and suddenly this black feathery ball of death flies out

and thankfully starts pecking at the kayak, not me, but I just had to kind of swim away. Did you wish you had an umbrella? I mean, it would have helped. Inés, you very enthusiastically said bird poop. I may have stories, not involving kayaks, but involving birds and poop. You can't stop there!

Go on! I know, I'm like, and poop, let's hear it! The most embarrassing email I ever had to send in my entire life was as I was walking to a very important PhD meeting where I would go from candidate to PhD student. And I was leaving so I'd be there early. So my alarm went off, the one that says,

Ines, you should leave home now so you get to your meeting on time. So I just stopped in the middle of the street. I bent over, I opened up my bag, and as if it was trying to score a hundred points, this pigeon... Oh no. No! I did not know that so much... stuff...

Yeah, yeah, no, I regret asking for this story now. I regret asking for this story. On me, my laptop, I could barely, could barely type on my phone, but it basically says, can the meeting be an hour later, a pigeon just defecated on me. Oh, no, you poor thing. And if you'd left the house late,

that wouldn't have happened. Well, we... It's because you were there early. We don't know that. Depends if it's a pigeon with a vengeance. All I can say, supposedly being pooped on gives you good luck, but unfortunately it did not give me good luck in this meeting. Oh no!

But it's okay. Ever since then, I kind of wish I'd had an umbrella. So that is why my guess is bird poop. Not in this case, because if you were touring around a coastline or a river, not in a kayak, then... Oh! It's to keep the seagulls off you, with your chips. When you're paddling with your chips, in one hands, you've got to have an umbrella to keep the seagulls off you.

That's still true if you're not in a kayak, though. Is it so you can use the hook of the umbrella to pull your oar back if it falls away and you can use the hook? So it's less about the umbrella part and more about the handle. I'm wondering if it's like a collapsible sail so the wind can pull you and you can marry poppins your way through the water but if there's no wind or it's the wrong direction, you just fold it up and stick it in the bottom. Virginia, you have got it.

Out of the blue, out of nowhere. Well done! Marie, you're just Virginia, there's a stop. So there was one summer when I was studying stuff in the Florida Keys, and I had to kayak, it was like two miles one way, each way, to get to my experiment, and I never got ABS, which was unfair, but I remember thinking if I'm not going to get ABS, I might as well go faster if only I had a sail, and I should have used an umbrella. Yep, when embarking on a longer tour, kayakers can use the umbrella as a makeshift sail,

and if the tailwind is strong enough, you can steer the rudder of the sea kayak. If the wind is lighter, you can sail and paddle at the same time. Amazing, well done. The catch is, of course, you can't quite see where you're going. LAUGHS Our question writer says this is something I've seen while kayaking and being by the river in northern Germany. How resourceful. I love that.

Inés, we will take the next question from you, please. Er, OK. On some rugged terrain in South Utah, there is a pair of sturdy metal poles about eight feet or 2.5 metres high. There's nothing else of note as far as the eyes can see. What are the poles for? On some rugged terrain in South Utah, there is a pair of sturdy metal poles about 8 feet, 2.5 meters

high. There's nothing else of note as far as the eyes can see. What are the poles for? Are they some sort of scientific instrument? They're measuring wind strength? Southern Utah makes me think of Monument Valley. Monument Valley, right? Yeah. But I don't know if that's Southern Utah. It's definitely in that part of the world. Pretty rocks. Yes.

I just thought it was rugged, so like rocks. Utah has a lot of pretty rocks. Got some great rocks. Top ten rocks. Which is unfortunately the exact opposite of marine biology. Hey, hey, I'm smart in many things. I didn't mean to denigrate. I withdraw the comment. Now I have to get this one right. They're for campers, and they're like,

you can use this as your washing line to dry your tent out. It probably doesn't rain that much in the middle of the summer. I mean, we don't know how far apart these are. These could be two poles that are next to each other, or they could be miles apart. I'm assuming they're vertical, they might not be. Oh, they are vertical, and I can't say how far apart they are. Are you going to? Uh, oh. They are vertical, and I can't say how far apart they are.

Are you going to? Um, I could, I could let, I could, I could let you all talk a little bit more. I could see it being something safety related, like lightning rods, but I could also see it being a very silly thing, like, it's for the traveling mus-, like, magicians who are following some apps recommendation. There's a challenge you have to complete there, like climb up the poles with one, you know... There's a wide range of how serious we can be with this answer, right? That just puts me in mind of the world's longest golf course. There is a golf course across the Nullarbor Plain in Australia. And it's called the Nullarbor because there's nothing there.

And it's like a three, four-day drive through nothing, and someone's just set up 18 desert golf holes at intervals along there, just so you have something to do on the long track. So it could be just one of those weird tourist attractions that America just sets up in places. So, one of the clues which Virginia got correctly... Tom, I am smart! Never underestimate my marine biologist. I've learned this. I've learned this very quickly.

They are a safety feature. Do they go down into the ground? Are they for, like, do they vibrate and scare away, like, moles or the mole people? Because they're 2.5 metres high, they probably do go quite a bit into the earth so they don't fall over, but the information of that is not something I know. So, no. I'm just going to pick up on mole people there, Jen. You know, the mole people of southern Utah. Is there something that connects them, like a wire or a rope or a line?

They are just two vertical poles. Are they antennae? Is it just two very tall people from Poland? Oh, just up there. Eight feet tall each. There are no two metal replicas of Polish people. — Oh, right, oh, right. — They're not there. — Ha ha ha! — Ha ha ha!

You said it was a safety feature, so is— I mean, I think Virginia already guessed to catch lightning, right? — It's not for that. — Yeah, it's not. An eight meters, eight feet wouldn't really do that. You don't really need a lightning rod in the desert unless you happen to be standing right there on your... Yeah. But they're in the desert ground. So... I mean, is it as simple as marking something,

like, here lies a death pit, don't get within ten feet? Like, is it a marker for safety? This is no place of honour. Right. Oh, yeah. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated yeah. No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here. No highly esteemed deeds are commemorated here. Magicians come through here, and let me tell you, they're— Beware! Beware! You might get—

You might get close-up magicked at. I once saw on the internet somewhere that someone got, this place is not a place of honour. Which is like the nuclear warning things on booty shorts. Just to do it as a... You've outed yourself as a Tumblrite, Tom. Oh no, I've outed myself as having someone who just insists on forwarding things to me like that. I am certainly downstream of Tumblr, but I'm not going into those waters.

On the other hand, Jenny, you have just doubted yourself as a Tumblrite, although given last time you were on here, you made multiple fanfic references. It's, uh, girl, I was also at the Devil's Sacrament. Right! They are kind of a marker, as said, but in different ways. We haven't figured out what they're doing. Is there anything on the poles, like a sign or a piece of cloth, or? It's just an enormous sign that says,

look out, two giant poles. I don't, a bird? There is a sign with the answer. So there is a sign. Oh. There's a sign explaining what the poles are? Yes. We have previously talked on lateral a long time ago about markings for speed,

about highways that have markers drawn on them a mile apart. Oh, to slow you down. So you can, well, partly for that and partly to test your speedometer, and partly so that people watching, whether they say speed enforced by aircraft, there's occasionally someone up there looking down with a stopwatch at the — and look at the mile markers. With a sniper rifle? What are they going to do? They will radio the cop a couple of miles down the road.

Oh, okay. So it's actually going to be enforced by a car. But I'm wondering if it's something to check your own speed or to check something you're doing. You can use this to test something or calibrate something. It is used to check something. It is also used for a much less sophisticated measurement. If the sun, if you stand at the base of the pole and the sun is lower than here, you're going to be caught outside in the dark

and that's not good. It's a very concise sign. Like, you're not wrong. It says, if something is the case, don't do the thing. Oh, okay. If something is the case, don't do the thing. If the shadows line up? If you can't touch—if these poles are too hot to touch, then do not continue into the desert. You'll be caught out in the wilderness and can't touch—if these poles are too hot to touch, then do not continue into the desert,

or you'll be caught out in the wilderness and can't carry enough water if— But I love this, though. If these poles are covered in flies, it is fly-sies. I can't think of anything that wouldn't be really obvious. If you—okay. It's an area that is very popular with tourists. So people who wouldn't necessarily be prepared for desert rugged hiking. What are the tourist attractions in Utah?

If you go past that sign, it's five hours till you get back or something. Time? It is not time. But it is a very simple measurement. You don't need a watch. You don't need a watch? All I can think of are plagues now, like the underwater thing. If the sign is covered in locust, there's a locust plague.

If the sign is painted with lamb's blood, then your first one will die. Yes. Is it a measurement? Can you reach from pole to pole if you can touch them both at the same time? If you can fit between... If you can't fit between these poles? Then you're going to get stuck in this cave. Yep, that is... Yay! You really got the answer. Yay!

Good job. So the poles are roughly 30 centimetres apart, one foot. It says to prevent tourists from getting stuck in a very narrow canyon. For the context, the spooky slot canyon, which I have to say, most amazing name ever. You can't call it that and then expect tourists to go in it. You've canyon is when the walls are over 10 times higher than the narrowest point. The posts act as a size gauge. A sign at the top says,

if you have trouble fitting your body between these posts, do not proceed through spooky gulch. You may become stuck and need rescue. Wow! And then there is also the peek-a-boo slot Canyon nearby which is also a favorite for tourists who don't have claustrophobia. Hi there I'm Ryan Reynolds and I have a list of things I like to have on set. It's just little things like two freshly cracked eggs scrambled with crispy hash browns, sausage crumble,

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It's the annual school play. See you later, alligators. Did you drink? Why not? That sounds great. I don't know, because she wants to turn. That sounds fun. Don't be ruining our fun.

It is bring your crocodile glove puppet to work day. No, it's not that. It's not that. Is it for the children? It is for the children. I'll give you that much. But I'll let you talk about it between yourselves for a while. She hates it. Show up to the lunchroom that day, all the teachers are like throwing things. They're so mad about the song.

I'm just thinking, like, I don't know, vaccination day in primary school, like is it to distract the kids so they're like line up for the yearly jabs or something and it's like a distraction for them. Like look, smile at the alligator or he'll bite you. My mum was a press photographer and whenever she had to take a picture of a very young child, she had a little toy of the character Sweep from the children's show SOTY and Sweep, and Sweep has a squeaker, so she would waggle Sweep in the air and squeak him to get the child's attention. Is that what the crocodile is for? It's not, unfortunately.

But it is for the kids, and the kids are roughly eight years old. Is it… does it have to be a crocodile? It… it could be an alligator. I have crocodile, it could be an alligator, but anything other than that… Just to teach them the difference between crocodiles and alligators. When in puppet form? They have teeth. Maybe it's, you know, the tooth fairy.

Aren't kids losing teeth around that age? It's like a dental hygiene seminar. About brushing your teeth! Yes! Oh my god, that's the Dentistry Outreach Day. That would be great. Sponsored by the alligator. This is how you brush the teeth on the little alligator puppet. I mean, you should know that by the time you're eight, but maybe just in case, we do it again. Virginia and Inés, you were making some hand gestures there. And honestly, I think those might start to help.

Folks at home, feel free to make the gesture you think a crocodile glove puppet would make. Is it like, stop talking? When the alligator talks, the teacher's talking, when it's not, you may raise your hand. Is it like a sort of... It's only once a year, though. Is this like the Christmas alligator?

They learn fast. The Christmas crocodile? So I was thinking something with chomping, like emotion, like if it's like, if it's not to teach about alligators or crocodiles, like, hello, we live in a place with reptiles and they can bite you, then maybe it's like the physics of, you know, this is your hand, get caught in the door. You know, this is why we don't... I don't know.

Something with... The children are told that the crocodile is greedy. Hmm... The children are told that the crocodile is greedy. Greedy. Is this... is the crocodile the cookie monster? How is it to take donations? Oh, put your money inside the crocodile. Eat your donations.

Heskings money from kids? In this economy? What are we, YouTubers? Is there, like, a national greed day? I know there's a national giving day. National greedy day. We celebrate being greedy. Is it like the Tuesday after Black Friday, like, giving Tuesday? Keep going with those hand gestures.

Alright, hand gestures. Isn't that a coordination exercise? Once a year you need to stretch your hand. You've not got fingers. Imagine children what life would be like if you didn't have fingers. Are we teaching Flamenco to the kids so they learn how to click with the Flamenco, Alec... What I love is that a load of people listening to this...

Left and right! No. Oh, now, Jenny, not quite, but you're getting closer. It's a concept kind of like that. Direction is important. Left and right? Er, open and close? Jenny, not that but the direction the crocodile is facing will be important.

This is just a boom for real of us. No! There is no point to this question, it's just so we can look silly. Mission accomplished. Is it different times? Is she telling... No, because you can't do some times. Greedy for... The cocoa is greedy.

This is for an eight-year-old maths lesson. Fractions! Oh! Greater than less than. Keep talking. I don't... Greater than less than. Keep talking. I don't... greater than less than? The alligator eats the bigger number because it's greedy. There we go. Oh! Nice one, Virginia.

I've never had crocodiles in my math lessons. I'm writing a letter complete. Marine biologists also know about operations. Marine biologists also know about operations. This is to teach children about the greater-than and less-than signs. I remember a lesson similar to this from when I was a kid. We did not get taught it with an alligator glove puppet, but there was certainly the metaphor of the alligator's jaw being greedy and going towards the bigger number.

This is a glove puppet used by quite a few teachers to teach greater than and less than. I'm impressed it was just once a year. I feel like I'm half lessons. I was thinking. Virginia, we will go to you whenever you're ready. This question has been sent in by Ziland, a man in... Brazil rides a bicycle for eight hours. Though his bike goes nowhere useful, it saves him a day of time and makes the local population safer.

How? And I will read it again. A man in Minas Gerais, Brazil rides a bicycle for eight hours. Though his bike goes nowhere useful, it saves him a day of time and makes the local population safer. How? It goes nowhere or it goes nowhere useful? It goes nowhere useful. It isn't a static bike, but he's not going anywhere in particular. Is he generating electricity with it still though? It might if you use that electricity to power. There were a lot of questions in there.

I would like to let you process for a minute. So talk amongst yourselves and then I'll send it. I ask it not directly, I ask it out loud to the universe. I wonder if his job is to ride around on his bicycle and maybe he has a banner that has information or is part of the authorities so people feel safer when they see him around, even though he's not actually going anywhere. But, you know, sort of presenteeism that is made better by him being on the bike. It saves him a day of time. Oh yeah, yeah.

That's the... like, making the local population safer, sure, but saving him a day. My first thought was he was scaring birds or something like that, and it saves him time for the crops or something like that. Yeah, or he's crossing a dateline or something. But that's... Not in Brazil. If it's in Brazil, then no. Not in Brazil. Erm... Nowhere useful saves them a day of time,

makes the local population safe. If it's eight hours, are you just three times faster on a bike? So if you were walking, it would take him a day versus on a bike, it would take him eight hours. Like, he could do this walking, but... since he's doing it on a bike, that's much faster. Maybe he used to do it walking. Is this something that could be done with something that's not a bike? And does the question is, does the bike actually move? Is it a treadmill bike or?

So I'm going to step in with a couple pieces of information because I feel like you need that. You need them. I love you all. However, so Jenny and Denise, you have asked whether it's going nowhere or going nowhere useful. And I think you should know because I think you both hypothesized that it was going just nowhere. And I think you should know that that part is correct. The bike does not move even an inch forward.

Huh. Is he doing a spinning class? An eight-hour spinning class. Oh, brutal. That saves him a day of time somehow. Does this bike power something? I was thinking electricity generation or something like that. But you don't get that much power from one-person pedalling.

I've seen experiments like that, but you don't really get enough to power anything, and it's not consistent. But what if you just needed something to turn around? You don't need to generate power. You're just moving something. Rather than generating electricity, could the power be used more directly? Could one of the wheels be attached to a cable or something that does something? Is he a baker?

Is he kneading dough or something, and it's a way of mechanically doing something? Crazy Wallace and Gromit invention, where it's connected up to paddles or a cable that pulls a boat, like it pulls a ferry. The thing about powering something like generating electricity, that part is correct. But I also think you should know that he is not the only bicycler. And I want to remind you of the question. His bike goes nowhere useful. We now know that means nowhere saves him a day of time, makes the local population safer. So if you imagine he's not the only one doing this, I really want to see if you all can get the population safer and then saving him a day of time. I guess if everyone is saving their electricity bill by cycling at the same time,

they will be engaged and then too tired to commit crime. Ergo, everyone's safer. It is a bicycle, it is too tired. Dang, man. The puns today. Yeah, sorry. I'm not sorry. That's a lie. You're not sorry. So, I actually want to use that opportunity to steer you toward a different meaning for the word time. Is he cutting down time the plant? Like, is harvesting time?

Rosemary sage and time? No. Okay, so along with the alternate meeting of time, I want to direct y'all back to the, you know, this man is not the only one doing this. So where could you get a population of people for which multiple people at a time could be riding bikes and, and each one of them would be saving time. I mean, I've just got a spin class. Someone mentioned that earlier.

In my head, this is just like exercise that's also generating electricity. That's correct. Okay. But for these people, well, it's not exercise. I mean, it is exercise, but like, they're riding, it generates electricity. And then also it holds special. The time part for these people is special. Is this... I don't think I'm helping. Is this electricity that they would have to go to great lengths to obtain otherwise? Like, is it sort of a reserve generator? I've got to walk for a mile to the electricity farm and bring back a bucket of electricity. A bucket! I've got my umbrella full of... No. So the keeping people safer part is separate from the time reduced. Okay so the biking on its own keeps people safe. Or at least, are these... oh, they're

not like... no. They're not people who would otherwise be committing crimes. Oh no. Oh, stay with that theme! No! Really? What? They're not like... this isn't like a prison treadmill situation, is it? Is there a meaning of time that is special to people in prisons? They're doing time? Oh, no. And they get time off? They get time off? Yes. This is Victorian.

We did that to Oscar Wilde, man. I feel like this is actually a really good thing because if you think, like, there are lots of ways that people take time off their sentence, right? Like community service and stuff. So this is not like dark sinister, like whipping people to pedal faster. Okay, there's no whips involved. That's different from what I was thinking. Squeezing into slot canyons. Yeah, so okay, so let me tell you inmates in the Brazilian state of I'm so sorry, means and this churri, rode stationary bikes to charge batteries attached to them. The scheme's initial four bicycles, oh initial, so it grew, initial four bicycles provided enough electrical power to light 10 lamps at a perilous riverside

walkway. So these people were doing a real community service. In exchange for eight hours of work, the inmates were offered a reduction of one day of time off their prison sentence. The scheme also provided inmates with fresh air and exercise they wouldn't normally receive. One inmate was reported to have trimmed 20 days off his sentence and four kilos from his waistline. points everywhere you shop. But the best playlists, you never miss a good song. With this card, you never miss out on getting the most points on everyday purchases. The PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard, the card for living unlimited.

Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. The next question is from Christopher Henney Turner.

Thank you, Christopher. So, Robert Watson Watts' experiments in detecting thunderstorms found an unexpected application for which he was knighted. However, in 1956, he was shocked by an unexpected charge, complaining that he had become the victim of his own invention. What happened? I'll give you that again. Sir Robert Watson Watts' experiments in detecting thunderstorms found an unexpected application for which he was knighted.

However, in 1956, he was shocked by an unexpected charge, complaining that he had become the victim of his own invention. What happened? So there's no way that that's a charge as in an electrical charge. That's either a criminal charge or a bill. Like, he's somehow being billed for all this electricity. Is he... Is he surprise-shocked, or is he... I was really trying to read that question as best I could to get, like, electricity charge and electricity shock as the subtext.

But yes, you have correctly identified the pun in the question there. And all I'll say is that he was not shocked by an electrical charge. Got it. Alright. I thought I was being clever, but I guess not. You were being clever. I was right there with you. Yeah. It was real obvious. So, yeah, either a criminal charge or a bill.

And this is in the 50s. Well, the unexpected charge was in the 50s. Yeah. So he's been doing something for a while, and after, I don't know, 20 years of this invention, he has an unexpected... it either turned out to have been illegal this whole time, or it turned out to have been costing him a massive amount in his electricity bills and they didn't bill him for 20 years for some reason. It sounds like an overcharge. I think it's going to be that one though because I think the criminal thing, I don't think we'd have two criminal questions. That's pretty dark.

Good point. Good point. I think it's going to be silly. Yeah. Just based on... Yeah. Tom, how silly are you feeling right now? I mean, it is moderately silly. I'm imagining him, like, as a grumpy person in a local newspaper,

like, holding up his council test building. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is a grumpy person in local newspaper story. Was everyone using his device, and so he got charged for everyone, not just himself, maybe? Like, he only made one or... It didn't distribute like he thought? Did he think he was generating power,

but actually he just plugged into the mains and was using the mains' power? And his invention didn't work at all? Despite saying this is not about electricity, you have all honed in on electricity, and that's not what this is about. Oh, well his name is Watts? Like, Watts like... Yep, his name is Sir Robert Watson Watt. But I didn't mention anything about electricity here.

Did he get sued by Mr Watt for using the same surname for lightning-related things? Copyright on his name. This is that Watt. But he was working on a lot of things. There's a his name. This is that what. But he was working on a lot of things. What was he working on? A what of things? His experiments in detecting thunderstorms. Okay.

I mean, there's usually have electricity, but... I can see why he picked up on electricity here, but that is a bit of a red herring. He's not finding the thunderstorms through lightning, he's finding them through, like, thunder, maybe? He's got a seismograph in the sky that wobbles every time there's thunder, or like, you can test it with pressure, right? Like your barometer goes really low when there's a thunderstorm. Keep thinking that way. So inventions that might help detect things far away. So what if it's sound, and he was listening to thunder super far away. And then he gave everybody sound listeners from far away and everyone heard him like insult the local mayor.

Was it infiltrating radio waves somehow? Hang on, this is the 50s. Was he... was this a Russian spy thing? Did he pick up, like, did they find out that he was also selling secrets to the Russkies because he'd accidentally broadcast on his lightning detection system? Between you, there were all sorts of points that head in the right direction. Virginia, you were talking about sound waves and sound detection. His invention actually made that obsolete. And in NACE, you were talking about radio waves.

Jenny, I'd try and add a third thing, but unfortunately I don't have one from what you said. That's really kind of you to have tried. That's all right. Was he cancelling out emergency radio waves so he was charged with interference of some sort? If you figure out the invention, you'll be able to figure out the second part of the question. So it made sound listening obsolete.

Yeah. There are sound mirrors on the British coast, which are giant concrete structures that people used to, for a little while, obviously they were testing them, standing them as giant amplifiers and trying to hear things far away. What's experiments and what's discoveries were part of what made that obsolete. Did he accidentally deafen some people so they got rid of it? Like, was this a safety concern? Radio waves, in Ace.

Radio waves, okay. I mean, did he invent the radio? I don't know who invented the radio. It's a technology that's used with weather even now. Like, if you are in the US, they will talk about their cloud-detecting, rain-detecting thing, and they will give it a name. — Like, radar or something? — Radar. — Yes. — Oh.

So Robert Watson Watt. Obviously, there's a lot of people working on things like that, but his discoveries helped create radar. So radar is World War II. Yep. Vital tool helped detect the Luftwaffe. That was why he was knighted. Did he accidentally reveal the position of people on their side, and that was discovered, therefore he was releasing information. Not in 1956. This is years after the war. He has been given his knighthood.

Was he, like, still listening in to the RAF in the 50s, going, oh yeah, they fired me, but I can tell where they all are? I mean, radar just kind of gives you a ping. It just kind of gives you location and speed. That's about it. And he was using it to find... Oh, did it lead to police guns and speeding stuff? Yes!

And he got... Oh. Radar guns. Keep going, keep going. So he invents radar and it's a weather tool, and then the police are like, oh, hi, we can use that for our own purposes. And then they train it around town, and he gets caught speeding, and he's like,

oh, I made that happen. Yeah, that's basically it. My god! He was driving in Canada in 1956. he was stopped for speeding by a policeman using a very early form of the radar gun, and was charged with an on-the-spot fine of $12.50, which... You'd be kicking your son, wouldn't you? Yep. Yeah, even though his wife tried to use the line, don't you know who you're giving a ticket to?

The police officer was like, right, Mr Watt, he invented electricity. That's what the police officer said. How much is 1250 and... 1250 Canadian dollars back then, I couldn't tell you what that is now. Enough to be frustrating. He claimed that he had been the victim of his own invention. His original request from the British government was to invent a death ray that would heat up enemy aircraft.

And he had to write back and say that that is impossible, but I can tell you where they are. Can we just say Virginia got like a full house here? Storming it, man. Marine biologists. Marine biologist. Marine biologist. If you go backwards in time in this video, I think you will hear Tom say something about speed.

And so I think all I was doing was listening very hard. You were radar-ing in very well. Jenny, it's your question, whenever you're ready. This question has been sent in by Evie Jo. Krakow, Poland, has one of the largest medieval market squares in Europe, dating back to the 1200s. Though its location hasn't changed over the centuries, the medieval thoroughfare is up to 4 metres, 13 feet away from the current one. How? I'll say it again. Krakow, Poland, has one of the largest medieval market squares in Europe,

dating back to the 1200s. Though its location hasn't changed over the centuries, the medieval thoroughfare is up to 4 metres, 13 feet away from the current one. How? Is that just how tectonic plates work over the last 800 years? That's simple. I don't know that there is a tectonic fault in Krakow. No, it's a fairly inactive area, that.

But that is a problem in some countries. Like, for GPS, Australia is moving so fast. I think it's northeast, that every so often they just have to kind of update the basis for where the GPS goes to, and it's actually a bit of a problem. So I will say I have been to that square, and there was, having to crack off, I don't know the answer, but I have a story there, which was I wanted to buy a pretzel,

and I accidentally opened my wallet and all the money went everywhere. I was like, I'll pay for this. Coins exploded everywhere. Oh, nice. We're probably not the first person to have done that. But I'm pretty sure people excited to pay is not the reason that the market has displaced by a few meters.

OK, I feel like when it says off, my initial instinct is it's moved sideways. But a lot of cities famously build up over time because refuse and stuff piles up and things are built. Like Seattle has an underground city, and I know that was maybe more deliberate, but a lot of cities are kind of building up a little bit. Or it's four metres down, just because it's been eroded by so many cart tracks

and so much over the years. I mean, that's the fastest question we've ever had. Well done, Virginia. Really? It's just... I mean, you do a market for... Enough people drop their coins on the ground over 800 years. And this is the reason this happened.

My wallet's so heavy, it made the market go down. That's it. So the current square is built on four metres of debris. That's really deep archaeology. Wow. That's, yeah, it's... I mean, a lot of medieval cities will have something like that, but yeah, that's... that's quick, that's fast that that's happened. Wait, that's over 800 years?

Yes, since the 1200s. That's like half a metre a century? Yeah, that's fast. I'm doing maths in my head, and that's like 50 centimetres? That's... Am I right in saying that's like five mil a year? You know what, though? It may not be a linear accumulation. It may be that back when they dumped all their crap in the street, like literally, it may be that it built up a lot

in the beginning in the last 200 years. It's been pretty stable. That's what I'm going to think about. Yeah. So the reason it happens is because basically every time it got too dirty, like every time the roads got too mucky, they would put in a load of new straw and new dirt to clean it up. And so over the years, that's why it's happened so fast. And there is a museum where you can go down into the excavation. It's called the Rynick Underground Museum, if that's how it's pronounced. It's called the Rynick Underground Museum, if that's how it's pronounced. So one last order of business. Thank you to lateral player Oliver Vorge for sending this question in. In Iceland, which publication contains 19 ninjas, 44 Jedi, and 7 supermans?

I'll give you that one more time. In Iceland, which publication contains 19 ninjas, 44 Jedi, and seven supermen? Is it the phone book? It is the phone book! Yes it is! Because in Iceland they have matronymics or patronymics, I think, and so all of them have such similar names that I guess you get to pick a fun name to differentiate yourself, because otherwise everyone would just have the same name.

Mmm. You've got the phone book, you haven't got the other half of that. This is not the names of the people in there. Well, it's not all the names of the people in there. Are these businesses? If you have lots of people with the same name, what else might the phone book do? Addresses? It's going to give you some other way of differentiating them. Addresses or who they're related to, maybe?

Is it a job? Is that, if people put their jobs in and they put my job as a ninja? Yes! Oh, I've got to get one right tonight. Yep. Iceland's phone company couldn't keep up with the modern years where people change occupation frequently,

so they started to allow anything that passed a profanity filter. So some people put in ninjas, Jedi, Superman. There are also five people who have the forename Ninja. Which means that there are some extra Ninjas, ninjas in the phone book. Congratulations to all three of our players. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? With Jenny.

You can find me at JDraper London on YouTube and TikTok. And you can find my book, Mavericks, in all good bookshops. Ines. You can find me on YouTube and Twitch at Joe Curiosity. I make videos about once a month, and I stream three times a week, all about science. And Virginia? I am at VGWShooty, my last name, on YouTube and Instagram, and if you follow me, you'll be promoting a pitch I'm making this year for a talk show, so please come talk to me.

And if you want to find out more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for a question. We are at Lateral Cast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. Thank you very much to Jay Draper. Thank you for having me, it's been great. Virginia Schutte. Yay!

And Ines Laura Dawson. Thank you for having me again. I've been Tom Scott and that's been Lattrop.