Lateral with Tom Scott - 145: The wooden cat

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Ruth Amos, Evan Edinger and Abby Cox face questions about feather farmers, B-52 blinds and moist municipalities. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Sarah Roberge, Landon Kryger, Dmitrij, Ben Kirk, Nick Konopka, Katy. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why would you be disappointed to hear that you have to take the number 11 bus to your destination? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. [♪ music playing, We are thrilled in a low-key and emotionally restrained manner to present another episode. Prepare yourselves, if you are so inclined, for an intellectual journey of, um, well, that's not oversell it, it's puzzles. Slightly odd puzzles, solved with varying degrees of success, but we assure you the

effort is... present. Joining us on this endeavour first, we have someone who, in the chat before we started recording, described herself as unhinged fashion and cultural historian, Abby Cox. Welcome back to the show! Hello! I'm so happy to be back! I just thought I'd make it clear that you were the one who used the word unhinged there. I did.

I'm not just thrusting that upon you. Last I saw you were making a video on hatpins, which I assumed were small, and which really are not. Which are weapons. Do you want me to go get one? I can brandish it during the whole thing. Hold on, give me like two seconds. And while Abby's going off to find a hatpin,

we will introduce from YouTube. I think you said you just wanted to be introduced as Evan, so please welcome Evan Edinger. That's me, hi. How do you sum up what you do? Er... Good, and while Evan's waiting for that, we'll move on to the third guest that we have here today

from Kids Invent Stuff and now from Masters of Reinvention on the Yesterday channel, Ruth Amos, welcome back to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. You are in a workshop filled with stuff. I'm going to ask about Kids Invent Stuff first. What have you been working on lately? Oh, we just did a collab with Taskmaster Education, where we got to build a drivable bath for little Alex Horne.

So the roles were reversed. I got to be the Taskmaster's assistant and hand out the task. It was very exciting. So yeah, we've just been busy building amazing kids' invention ideas. You've been on the show a couple of times, but has always been with Sean, the other half of Kids Invent Stuff. How are you feeling being the lone representative here? Yeah, it's— Sean's not very well, unfortunately, so I've been the kind of lone representative of Kids Invent Stuff for a little bit now, and I'm starting to get used to it, yeah, a little bit.

We miss you, Sean. Well, best of luck. You have two other people here to help you through anyway, and I'm going to try and un-nest this Russian doll of introductions here. Evan, have you decided how you want to be introduced? ChatGPT has given me some options here. But I basically...

Oh, no, don't quote from ChatGPT. That's like someone telling you about their dreams. No, I don't quote from Chargib. That's like someone telling you about their dreams. No, I'm sorry. I will ignore that. I moved to the UK from the US about 12, 13 years ago, and my YouTube channel is all the interesting differences I've noticed along the way. I think that's a nice way of summing it up.

And anything else I find interesting, I suppose. Well, we'll see if that knowledge helps you today. And now finally up to the top layer of this incredibly complicated cloud-atlas-style introduction. Abby, do you have a hatpin to brandish? I do. Oh. So for those not watching in video, a hatpin, it turns out, is about ten inches long and viciously spiked.

What were those used for? Well, their initial use is to secure women's hats because, unlike men's hat wear, which was usually kind of narrower in the brim or fit more securely on the head, women's hats were either very shallow or were large or they were perched on the hair. And so you needed a hat pin just to kind of keep everything in place. They banned them because because of public transport, because men were getting scratched on public transport. And sometimes they would get infections, sometimes, you know, in some situations, men lost an eye, but it's because they were standing too close to women. And so they tried to regulate

how much the hat pin could stick out of the hat. Half inch being the goal, which is just impossible to actually regulate. So yeah. Thank you for branching that from a very safe distance through a screen. I'm glad you're not poking that near me right now. No, I would never poke you, Tom. Good luck to all three of you. And that is everyone introduced to establish a sufficient level of geniality. And let us now, with measured anticipation, approach question one. Thank you to Ben Kirk for this question. In the late 19th century, why did many women have their photograph taken while completely covered in a blanket or curtain?

I'll say that again. I know this one. In the late 19th century, why did many women have their photograph taken while completely covered in a blanket or curtain? I did worry that Abby might immediately know this one. I might know this. Oh! Oh, okay, we've got two. Sorry, Evan, you're on your own. I'm going to pretend I know this.

Good luck! It was really cold in the early 19th century, late 19th century. Is it literally just me? Okay. I don't know, we normally don't include a question if there's just one person going for it, but let's check. Abby definitely knows it. Ruth, do you want to drop a couple hints for Evan here?

I think it's to do with who is being photographed. Yes, it is. Okay. Yes. So, what you're saying is, women would cover themselves in blankets before getting their photograph taken? Yes. All women?

Just some women. More common with younger ones. Was there anyone else in these photos? Yes, there was. I think that's what Ruth was hinting at. Abi, we don't normally have a question like this, but you know what, you're all playing along really well. Abbie, do you want to drop a hint in here forever?

Do you remember, like, JCPenney's and Sears and, like, things you would do with a family in the, like, the 80s and 90s growing up? Get a catalogue of things. But you would go to the store for a reason? To try on clothes. People like to do them today as jokes. A selfie?

Well, in the late 19th century... Oh, photo booth stuff, so you dress up and wear hats and silly things. That's not quite what I was trying... I think Abbie's going towards family portraits here. Yes. Oh, my dad was a photographer. We don't go to them often. I'm thinking about it. For family photos, you would cover the woman in a blanket? You... Well, family's a strong term there.

Is she just the woman that's not necessarily needed in the photo? No, you're treading a very fine line here. This is the 19th century, okay? Well, she was absolutely needed in the photo. Really? Yes. Was she being sat on? Well, yes.

Yes, do you want to add some context for why that might be, Evan? You see, the camera has quite a big tripod, and you need to have a nice clothed woman to sit on to go get on the... That's why I thought you were going with this. That's why I laughed. We're not talking about that kind of peep show, Evan, okay? So, this now seems cruel.

This is the first time I think that we've actually aired a question where everyone but one person knows it. And honestly, it does just seem cruel at this point, but I think Evan can take the mocking for a little bit longer. I'm doing alright. So you're not sitting on the woman then, but someone is... Someone is. Is the camera on the woman?

Yes. Is the guy, is the camera person sitting on the woman? No. Does the photo have to be exposed for a really long time? Yes, it does. That's one of the key things about photography back then. You would need to have an exposure measured in seconds. Everyone had to be perfectly still.

So I don't know why you wouldn't use a good chair rather than a woman with a blanket on her. There is one other person, or maybe a couple of other people in the photo. The family, hypothetically. Or the child, possibly? Keep talking, Evan. Sorry, literally, everyone's heads just kind of went, ah, at the same time. Is it a green blanket? Could they rotoscope out the blanketing woman using After Effects?

Sorry, this is 1900s, so that'd be Before Effects. I mean, they did do that. They could do that, yes. Oh, oh. They did it physically with pencils. Yeah, no, there was Photoshop. It was just manual. Oh yeah, just a little pen and an... Yeah, sidequest.

It was a good job for women. It was actually advertised like courses for women to do it. Okay, so was this a way of photographing the child so the woman would be holding the child? Spot on. Yes, this is a hidden mother photograph. That's kind of grim. So it's just a floating child? I don't like this.

Well, the photos, and because these are late 19th century, I think we may be able to put a couple of them in the video version. But the photos, there is a shape in the background, underneath a blanket that kind of blends into the background. And that is the mother holding the child still for the few seconds required to keep the camera shutter open and take the photograph. This is a hidden mother photo. And this technique was eventually... What technique came afterwards? How do we take pictures of babies now?

Then they just sat on the woman to take the picture. That's how it progressed. And also these days, you have camera flashes. Oh, and longer... Yeah, you don't need the long exposure, that's a good point. So yes, these were hidden mother photos from the late 19th century. After that gauntlet, I think it's only fair that we go to Evan to ask the next question of the show.

Over to you whenever you're ready. Alright, so this question has been sent to us by Landon Kriger. The question is, why is autumn the best season to pick up some lock picking tools? I will repeat, why is autumn or fall the best season to pick up lock picking tools? Does it mean to buy the tools to pick the lock or does it mean to pick the lock? Does that make sense?

You mean to pick up? What do you mean? Like, is it the best time of year to buy the tools to do the job, or is it the best time of year to pick up the skill of lockpicking? Yes. No. So close. No, that's a good question, because lockpicking is a sport. It's referred to as a skill you can learn. There is competitive lockpicking.

There is skill involved in working out how to move the tumble. I don't have the patience for it. I tried it for like 10 minutes, but I do not have the patience to learn this skill. I will add context, because I feel like Ruth, you're really on it. Why is autumn the best season to pick up some lockpicking tools? So not to pick up lockpicking, but lockpicking tools. Oh, okay. No, it's not purchasing. So it's not purchasing.

Huh. Is it because people were, like, picking locks of bikes? That's the only thing I can think of, is, like, people stealing bikes at universities. Sorry, I'm remembering the lockpickers I know now. They have to, like, I don't know if they have a membership card or something like that, but there is a crime in Britain known as going equipped. If you have the tools to commit a burglary or breaking and entering or lockpicking gear

or something like that, and no reasonable excuse for having them, that is something that can get you in trouble. So they have lockpicking federation cards if they're going to meets or something like that. The name will be different, but certainly that's a thing they have to worry about. So... but you said pick up. I just assumed they were cheaper in the autumn, but you said pick up and not buy. Also, it is an autumn, very importante for that. I'm trying to think, like, is it to do with the weather? The engineer in me is thinking about the weather and what that does to, like, a metal lock.

That's why I went to, like, start of school. I'm like, lockers with locks on them, bicycle locks, like, kids abandoning stuff, new school year, but... So what changes in autumn? The trains are more likely to be delayed because of leaf fall, because the metal rails get slippy. What else mechanical changes in autumn? It's getting colder. Well, you could also think about what activities councils might perform more often in autumn slash fall.

Well, I definitely don't know the answer to this one because it has nothing to do with where I'm from. You can go around all the all the love locks that are on bridges and steadily detach them and have a secondhand padlock business. Well, I'd say that it's much easier to come across these lock-picking tools in large cities. Oh! Is it like, is there something that you can pick a lock with that grows on a tree? Like what happens in, like, the leaves fall?

Can you pick a lock with leaves? I think it was pine cones, acorns. What are the little fly things called that look like helicopters? That one. Relevant, but no. Six. No, no, but you're on the right track

because you're autumning up. But think about them activities that the councils might perform because of- All I can think of is pumpkin spice lattes, but that is not going to help with the lock picking. I'm like apple cider doughnuts. I'm like the council has never given me hot cider. Let me think.

This is a rough one for me as well. If you think about what material, what is the material that most lock picking tools would be made out of? Okay, lockpicking tools, from what I remember, are little... I'm going to call them pokey things. There is definitely a term for this, but they're small little pokey metal things that fit into... fit into locks. And you can...

Now there are professional ones made, but you, in theory, can use pins, all sorts of things to... I mean, I doubt a 12-inch hat pin is going to help you pick... Are they Sheffield main steel pins? You know what? They could be made in Sheffield, but no, it's not necessarily, no. What becomes available in autumn? Or what activities do councils perform more in autumn that might increase... They sweep up the leaves? Yes, yes. Autumn. Or what activities do councils perform more in autumn that might increase? They sweep up the leaves.

Yes, yes. Oh, it's the sweepers. It's the steel from the sweepers. What? Explain, explain, explain. So like, street sweepers. The trucks do this, right? I don't know how, this is a podcast and no one knows what I'm doing.

The spinning brushes at the front. I'm spinning. This is going to be great for TikTok and YouTube. But they'll shed. And so then they're just kind of left in the gutter. They're never made of metal, surely? Well, congratulations, Abby. Yeah, the street sweeping machines. Oh my god, yes they are.

They're used often in autumn to pick up leaves, regularly lose their metal bristles in the road, and the bristles are prized by amateur lockpickers who find that the long thin pieces of metal are ideal for making their own lockpicking tools as they look along the sides of the street trying to find these bristles and grab them. I never knew they were made of metal. The annoying thing is I did and I just did not make that connection. You're a good man, you're not a criminal, eh?

Thank you to Nick Konopka for this question. In 1990, the mayor of Pittsburgh rang the giant eagle grocery chain and asked if they could start packing customers' purchases in plastic bags that were blue. Why? One more time. In 1990, the mayor of Pittsburgh rang the giant Eagle grocery chain and asked if they could start packing customers' purchases in plastic bags that were blue.

Why? America. Does it have to do with sports? Why do you say that? Well, Philadelphia Eagles, and their colors, it's a football team, and their colors are like this tealish. Pittsburgh Steelers. Pittsburgh Steelers. Well, Eagle grocery store, Philadelphia Eagles and their colors, it's a football team and their colors are like this tealish.

Pittsburgh Steelers. Pittsburgh Steelers. Well, Eagle grocery store. So my brain went Pennsylvania, Eagle, Philadelphia Eagles, not Pittsburgh Steelers. Also that's not blue. So I was like, is it blue blue or is it more like tealy blue, like greenish more blue for Eagles? That's where my brain went. I mean, they do burn down,

you know, Philly when they win the Super Bowl. So I feel like- Or when they lose the Super Bowl or- Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I feel like a grocery bag, thematic grocery bag is very- so that's where my brain- They're Pittsburgh, they're different places. I know they're different places. I know they're different places.

It's offensive to Pennsylvania. Are you from Pennsylvania? No, I'm from South Jersey, which is the Philadelphia suburb. So, hypothetically, yeah. I was like, excuse me? The birds and the steelers? You can't see this? No, I was like, eagles? Blue? It is not a sports question, this one.

You do not need sports knowledge to work this out. Does it have to do with food that would go in the bag and blue makes it look different or fresher or 90s-er? Or icier? Ooh. This was the mayor asking. It was Mayor Blue-mer-berg. Oh. Oh, Evan.

That... Is it a political thing? In the sense that the mayor is involved and there's been some policy changes, yes, but it's not really rallying for anyone in particular. So it's not a democratic thing? Like it's not a democrat versus republican, like, primary thing? No, no, it's not. Was it just the eagle chain, the eagle creek, is it, or?

The giant eagle grocery chain. Giant eagle, yeah. What colour were they before, or can you not tell us? —Just standard white plastic bags. The sort of things that are now completely deprecated, because you have to bring the tote bag along or something like that. Your standard late 20th century shopping bag. —Was it like a jobs thing? Did they produce like a blue pigment in the area? And he was like, if you make it blue, there'll be more jobs.

—No, unfortunately. —Was it to stop littering? —Ooh. —Oh, to make littering easier to notice when the bag is being left behind. —Yeah, unfortunately. Was it to stop littering? Ooh. Oh, to make littering easier to notice when a bag is being left behind. Yeah, so if it was white, it might not be seen as well as blue. It's not that, but keep thinking along those lines. What would be a side effect of having those plastic bags around? Is it like Macy's brown bag? I don't know what that is.

Like, I feel like Macy's have like a brown bag? Is that a thing, Abby? I feel like it's... I think you're thinking of Bloomingdale's, but yeah, it's a logo bag. It's kind of like people will come to the United States and they'll go to like Victoria's Secret, right? And then since Victoria's Secret isn't in Europe, or at least it wasn't back in like, when I'm thinking about this, which is like the 2018s, like people would carry like their lunches to work in like Victoria's Secret bags, which is hysterically

funny from like my perspective, because I'm like, ma'am, that's your underpants bag. That's where you buy your underpants. And now you have your food in it to tell people you've been to America to shop at Victoria's Secret. Now it's like, oh, one, oh, one bag. Yeah. Yeah. It's like this, or like a Trader Joe's tote bag, right? It's labeling, it's a brand recognition thing. So that's, I think tying Ruth together, my thought was, is Eagles opening up a grocery store in the town and the mayor was like, hey, if you do blue bags and people carry them, they'll be like, oh, where'd you get that?

Where are you getting the blue bags? And I'm like, Eagles grocery store. And people are like, I want to have blue bags too. And then they'll go. We love grocery stores here in the United States. When Publix opens, it goes crazy. I'm waiting for the Wawa to open up down the road. Oh, no, that's fair.

Wawa is the best gas station. Wawa, top tier. Thank you. God tier. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. Question. The blueness, the mayerness, the bagness, does it have to do with post-production? Are we talking about he wanted it to be blue because of what the shoppers would do after they used the bag?

Yes. Absolutely. I think, Abi, you were drifting towards there as well. Yes. It's recycling bags. Keep going, Abi. You could put your recycling in them. Or your dog poop. Because we love putting dog poop in our grocerycling bags. Keep going, Abby. You could put your recycling in them. Or your dog poop. Because we love putting dog poop in our grocery store bags. Like... If you recycle the blue bags. Yes. Now there's one thing that you're missing here.

Why is the mayor calling to make that change? Because you're right. Everyone is going to have the bag drawer at home, right? Or the bag bag that just has all these old grocery bags. They are now being used for recycling. Why is the mayor calling up to get the blue bags there? Did they just open the recycling center? Because this would have been the early 90s.

Yes. That's another missing piece of this. This is early 90s. Recycling is starting to become a thing. Was it like a... So in the United States, for... I grew up in the country, so we didn't really recycle, but like when I was around recycling, a lot of times they were in just like plastic tubs, oftentimes green, right? But sometimes I think they would be blue. And so when they were trying to develop like how to recycle compared to just like trash removal, and United States is a trash fire, right? Like every state's different, every city's different,

every county's different, every township's different. It's not going to apply to everybody. But they were trying to come up with different ways. And so if you had these blue grocery store bags, those could have been the recycle, like that's what you put out on the street to get picked up. Yes, it is. That's the key. The state of Pennsylvania passed a law that required residents to recycle more of their garbage. put out on the street to get picked up. Yes, it is. That's the key.

The state of Pennsylvania passed a law that required residents to recycle more of their garbage in blue plastic bags. And those bags cost money. The mayor of Pittsburgh, okay, you know how we've all been going he on the mayor? She. Mayor Sophie Maslov called the local grocery store chain

and asked them to use blue bags instead of white so the residents would get those bags free of charge. And that would encourage them to actually recycle, because they already had the bags. Yes. And why isn't that a thing anymore? No one in Pittsburgh recycles. Thanks, John. Because their place is trash. Boom! And why isn't that a thing anymore? No one in Pittsburgh recycles.

Because their place is trash. Boom! I'm sorry, it's nice. I can't wait for people to be in the comments, like, complaining about that, and be like, it wasn't me, guys, it wasn't Indiana. Indiana didn't say it. I'm from Sheffield. I ain't have nothing to do with it. Jersey did it.

Is it, they've changed colors, or...? There's something else that's changed in the last decade or two. They don't need to have in a bag. There's a bin. They don't have bins. They have trash cans. What might Pittsburgh have outlawed? Recycling.

Plastic. Plastic bags. Oh, plastic bags. Single-use plastic bags are no longer allowed in Pittsburgh at all. Wow. Ruth, it is time for your question whenever you're ready. When making an upcycled coffee table, Alyssa used around 50 VHS cassettes

and a roll of blue electrician's tape. Why? When making an upcycled coffee table, Alyssa used around 50 VHS cassettes and a roll of blue electrician's tape. Why? Was she making the legs? Did she take the center of the VHS tape, stack the tapes on top, the VHS tapes, wrap them in electrical tape, and then basically remove the center, where you do the spinny thing, and then pour resin in it or something to create a mold to then create the table legs?

You have parts of that yes, parts of that no. Okay, so we at least have a direction to go in. And also the question was why. Like, this is lateral, there's going to be something special about why this is done, instead of just, yep, made a coffee table out of VHS cassettes. Are they movies that are home movies, or relevant to her, or do the VHS tapes matter? The contents don't matter. Oh, because I was going to say, I bet there's a movie that they've got 50 copies of on VHS

that's a really apt one. I was really hoping that by the time I finished this sentence, I'd have a joke for which movie that might be that includes a coffee table. I've got nothing. American Pie. Sorry, it was a counter. Episode of Stanfield? Oh. Is it more about the mold aspect and using the VHS tape as a mold and stacking them together? Or is it...

They aren't mold. Which part was I right on? There was a reason why the cassette tapes were used, not other stuff, and it wasn't to make a mold. But you were heading... in a good direction, Abi. (*LAUGHS*) So do you think the tape was used to tie it together,

or is it used because the circle looks like the circle in a VHS tape? The circle? Ooh! The circle of a VHS tape and the circle of a tape, it's the same circle. Yeah, that's true. The circle is important. Oh, the circle's important. The circle's important.

Okay, the circle's important. Okay, because in my head, this was like a 5x10 grid of VHS tapes, or something like that, where they're all kind of laid out. And... What if she removed the white pits, the circles, and then she taped them together like a gear, and then made it this cool thing on top with resin? She didn't take them out of the cassettes. They are still in the cassettes, but the circles are important.

I was like, in my head, this was really cool. Like, this would have been viral on TikTok. To be fair, I think it would be viral on TikTok. Yeah. Do you think that while in use, the coffee table has the tapes moving? No. Oh, that's a shame, because that would have been nice

just having, like, a gear at one end just to wind everything at a shame, because that would have been nice just having like a gear at one end just to wind everything at the same time. That would have been sick. Is there some sort of VHS-based joke here, like, uh, be kind rewind, or something like that that ties it to the table? I'm trying to think what else that could be. The tape-ble? Tape-ble.

There isn't like a phrase that links to it, but it's... The cassette tapes are important visually. You said blue electrical tape. That's very important too. It's because the Philadelphia Eagles. This is so that they can recycle the VHS tapes afterwards, Evan! So, okay. Things that are blue and associated with VHS tapes. The Blockbuster Video logo.

Ooh, you're heading... Has she made a coffee table in the shape of a giant Blockbuster Video VHS tape thing out of VHS tapes? She hasn't, but it is about the aesthetics of the cassette tape and the blue tape. Matthew Feeney Does the coffee table look like a cassette tape? Emma Watson No. If you think of, so there's a table, we've established it's nothing to do with the legs, it's the top of the table. We've established that the white circles in the cassette tapes are important and they're kept within the cassette tapes. Doesn't look like a cassette tape though,

but they do need blue tape. So have a think about what visually... Flat black thing with white circles in it from the VHS tapes and blue tape. It doesn't help there's two different versions of the word tape in here. And like blue electrical tape over it to create some form of pattern.

You're literally describing what I'm looking at right now, if that helps. Some form of cultural reference, and literally describing what I'm looking at right now, if that helps. Some form of cultural reference, and we're going to kick ourselves. It's a nostalgic design. Is it Connect Four? You're heading the right... Games is the right way to go with this, Abbie. It's not Connect Four. It's a black grid.

Atari? Pac-Man! No, Tetris! Pac-Man! It's a Pac-Man board! Pac-Man's not blue, right? Oh, yeah, but the lines between them are. It's a big... I just start drawing it. The white dots look like the palettes that Pac-Man has to pick up.

And the blue tape marks the boundaries. Oh, that's so cool! Told you it'd go viral! It would have gone so viral! So, Alyssa had a bunch of waterlogged VHS cassettes, Oh, cool! Told you it'd go viral. It would have gone so viral! So, Alyssa had a bunch of waterlogged VHS cassettes, and by turning over the tapes, the white spokes on the underside looked like the dots in the Pac-Man maze when the cassettes were arranged in a layer on the tabletop.

Blue lines were then added to mimic the famous arcade game Maze. And then plexiglass was added over the top to make it useful as a table. Thank you to Katie for this next question. Katie goes to join a large group of her family for dinner at the Savoy Hotel London. When she sits down, she's surprised to see a wooden statue of a black cat on the table with a napkin around its neck. Why is it there? One more time.

Katie goes to join a large group of her family for dinner at the Savoy Hotel, London. When she sits down, she's surprised to see a wooden statue of a black cat on the table with a napkin around its neck. Why is it there? Happy birthday.

Ha ha ha ha. Anyone been to the Savoy? I have. They're one of the only parts of London where you drive on the right side of the road. I mean, not in the hotel, just to be clear. Just the street outside. The street that leads up to it is, interestingly, on the right side of the road. It's quite fun.

I have been inside for a couple of events and I did not see any cat with no napkin, so. My brain went to like three different things at once and I think all of them are kind of silly because that's just my brain. One is there was like a Savoy Hotel, like cat that they passed away and, you know, so to honor the cat and like the, you know, they have like the little kitty cat and he has a little napkin so he can sit at dinner with you and you can have dinner with the cat at like the special table because that was like the cat's table, right? And everyone's like, oh, kitty, that's amazing. The other thing is, is like, was it like a dinner about like ancient Egypt? And so we

have a black cat in order, you know, of because it's a thematic dinner about ancient Egypt and the British Museum and et cetera, et cetera. Rachel Weiss and Brendan Fraser and the mummy. Oh, sorry. I was driving the other day and saw a bumper sticker that was, HONK if you'd rather be watching the 1999 cinematic masterpiece The Mummy. The answer is always yes. Yep. What was the third one? You had Famous Cat and you had Ancient Egypt.

You said you had three things. I have forgotten the third. Excellent. Your first one's closer, But not that much closer. Is the napkin... Is it an actual napkin that can be used? Or is this a... You know, that's what I'm thinking.

I'm thinking about the utility of said napkin. Like, it's a napkin holding cat for you. Or... Wait, is this a statue of a cat, you said? This is a wooden statue of a black cat with a napkin around its neck. And it's at a table. If the cat was...

Obviously, I'm not sure how close I was with my first version. But let's say there was a cat who lived at the Savoy and the cat would walk around the tables, okay? And this is like going to be the best children's book story of all time. It's very like Eloise in the Plaza Hotel in New York. But the cat would go around and people would feed the cat like caviar or tuna. And so if you're having like, you know, a fixed menu about with seafood in it, then you get the cat because you're having seafood and kitty because you would metaphorically like feed

the kitty. Maybe the cat was related to the owner or someone that used to frequent there. It says family party. It did say family party. Maybe they're celebrating the life of the cat. Did say large group of her family for dinner, and that is important. She ate a large group of her family for dinner. Not quite what I said. The cat seems irrelevant now, really, if that's what you're doing.

Is this a Game of Thrones party? Like, are we just... Oh, well, mmm. No, absolutely not. Is the cat a theme cat? The cat is not there to be decorative, it's not to entertain children. It is there for a reason. What famous black cats are there? The cat in Downing Street exists. What might you associate a black cat with?

Look, or bad luck, good luck, bad luck, one or the others. Yes. Oh, was it like an 18th birthday party and it's a tradition in her family that a black cat has to be there and the Savoy were like, no cats, so they brought a statue instead so that she could be lucky? Trad tradition's a good word in that. Ooh, okay. Hmm. Cats and traditions.

This wouldn't have happened with a smaller group. Was the cat theirs or the Savoy's? It was the Savoy's. Oh, is it unlucky for 13 people to dine together or else you... Yeah, so the cat is the 13th person. Where did that come from all of a sudden? Keep going, Ruth. So it's unlucky for 13 people to dine together, so there was 12 of—

No, there was 13 of them and they had the cat that was 14, so it wasn't unlucky. So the first one to leave is not going to die. Yes. In fact, even down to the detail of the superstition there, yes, you're absolutely right. You know. There is an old superstition. There were 13 people at the table at Jesus' Last Supper. And an old superstition says if 13 people dine together, the first person to rise from the table will be the first to die.

There we go. And in 1898, a diamond magnet sat with 12 others at Savoy and was shot dead weeks later. So the superstition was a thing. In 1927, designer Basil Iannides designed a wooden cat called Caspar. And if 13 people are dining at the Savoy, the cat will have a seat. Just to make sure there are 14 people at the table. Can I just, I don't think that counts though, do you? If we're actually looking at like 13 people, the cat's not going to eat anything, doesn't

breathe, doesn't bring conversation, I don't think that counts. Cat can't die. Yeah. He's nine lives. In the 1800s, there were actually some French villagers who would have a catorzien, a fourteenth, a designated person that if there were 13 dining, you would call them. Sign me up, sounds great. That sounds like an app you would download, you would call them. Sign me up. Sounds great. That sounds like an app you would download. You just sign up and you're free.

We should so do that! It's like Tender and Yelp came together for a dining buddy. You'd need a better name. No one's going to be able to spell Cotorsiem. It's got to be like Cuttism or something like that, with all the vowels removed. Dinder. Oh! Dinder Mifflin. vowels removed. Dinder. That's... Oh! Dindermifelan. Oh, that's good. That's good.

Yes, this is the Savoy's wooden cat called Casper that sits at the table should 13 people be eating. Abby, it is over to you for the next question. This question has been sent in by Sarah Roeberge. What is the connection between 500 Japanese men stomping on a wooden floor, a door slamming, and a gavel being hit? So again, what is the connection

between 500 Japanese men stomping on a wooden floor, a door slamming, and a gavel being hit? This sounds to me like Foley. I was thinking Foley. I do. Hey! That was, again, really good. Didn't get any reaction from the crowd.

I feel like we should just, we should ironically dub in some Foley sound effect of laughing back. That was great! That was a really good pun. Okay, are you guys talking, can you please explain Foley? I think, I think Ruth and I were like... Foley is when, for instance, I'm just... I don't actually know what the sound of someone stepping in grapes is, so I'm just going to go to my sound effects and find someone has done this with their mouth,

and then I put that... That's Foley. It's never the actual sound. You all are headed in the right direction. If you have someone in a movie who is stabbed in the heart like staking a vampire, that is normally someone stabbing lettuce. Normally. Or someone shredding lettuce, that kind of crunch sound effect. It's lettuce.

I mean, what it actually is, is someone 50 years ago who stabbed one lettuce, and that has now been converted and digitized into various formats, and someone just types in, stab into a sound effects library. But once upon a time, someone would be stabbing lettuce. That reminds me of the generic kids laugh sound effect that's in every movie. Kid's cheer.wav. Like, oh man, you hear it everywhere.

It's in Little Women, 1994 even. It's just the sound. Anyways, yes, you are correct. That's where we're going. 500 Japanese men, how do we make it sound like they're like stamping on a wooden floor for a film? Well, of course, we've got a door slamming, so we just slam it a couple times. Hit a gavel. Hit a gavel. There's a lot of things hitting wood. Were all those sounds made in the same, like, Foley studio? That's a hell of a Foley studio. I mean, we all know Foley. It's not the same, like, Foley studio. That's a hell of a Foley studio.

I mean, we all know Foley, it's not the same. Like, they're never gonna have the Japanese men. They'll have, like, you know... Very specific sound effects. I will say this, the door was not wood. It's... I'll say that. The door is not wood. So not everything's wood. I apologize. So it's not just wood on stuff.

I think it's, like, the most sought-after foley— I mean, no, they're not. Ignore me. I thought that as I was saying. I was like, no. They're not the most sought-after foley sounds. They're all sound effects for thunder. Or like, rumble of thunder. You've got like, a gavel hit is a big thump. A door slamming is a big thump.

And then you just have that long rumble of thunders. Why it would be 500 Japanese men? Not entirely certain. There is, okay, I'm going to go into an anecdote here. Somewhere in Britain, I think it might be in Bristol, I'm not sure, there is one theatre that still has what they call the Thunder Run. And if you need your play to have a roll of thunder in the background, they have a big old cannonball and a big old trough for it to roll down,

and they do live foley rather than play, and it's just... How often you need thunder, I don't know, but when they do, someone rolls a cannonball down a trough. Well, I like that you described it as a big old cannonball. That makes it so much more joking. I love it. I'm sure there are different calibers of cannonball. If I was the director, I'd be like, oh, Midsummer Night's Dream? Obviously there's a thunderstorm.

Obviously. We're throwing out the cannonball. Oh, thank you, Producer David. I was nearly right. The Bristol Old Vic, Her Majesty's Theatre in London, and The Playhouse in London are the three theatres that still have or once had thunder runs. I'm wondering if the 500 Japanese men are part of the Foley in creating it or they are what the Foley is trying to create. Yes, that's what I was trying to work out. Is it, are they involved in it?

Yes, that's a part of the Foley. Okay. So Tom was kind of right with the like the thundery thing. What sounds could they all be? So that makes sense. Like are they, is a gavel hitting door slamming, and all of the men? Yeah. What were they doing?

Stamping. On an ordinary floor, which I'm not going to be enough of a joke to do that into a microphone, but it's going to be sort of this steady low rumble, like industrial machinery or something going along. And in my head, this is like constant stamping, like Rumble of Thunder-type stamping. Mmm, I don't know. Okay, so it's just 500 Japanese men going thump on a wooden floor once. Yes.

So these are all big hit noises, aren't they? Yeah, is there something to do with the decibels that all of these sounds hit? Are they all actually the same in some way? Or that they're made differently? The sounds all happen at once. Oh. So I can say that. Okay. Nothing in the clue has to do about decibels.

So I cannot speak to that one way or the other. But I can say the sounds all happen together. And they were obviously like they didn't put like 500 Japanese men and someone with a gavel, and then the door... Alright lads, we've got to all do this at the same time. One. You missed on the door. Each needs sound.

You missed the door. Is there a famous sound effect? Is there some noise that they made that we all know that is actually this? That's what they use to make those laughing children sound. That's exactly what it is. That's a good impression there, Evan. Thank you. This sound is not associated with anything funny.

I'll put it this way. And also, out of everyone in the group, I fully assume Evan will know the sound and know the reference. Damn. Wow. Damn. Wow, okay. I mean, that's a lot of pressure, Evan. Hope you, you know, looking forward to that. So in the 90s hit online game RuneScape, what...

No, I have no idea. Oh, is it possibly a sound effect that happens when you walk into a movie theater and they have the loud sound to start off to be like, shut up! Well, the THX sound or something like that. Yeah, I was thinking of a THX sound. OK, it is definitely a sound effect. It definitely happens at the beginning of something,

but is not associated with movies. Oh, that's a shame, because I thought it was going to be the drums at the start of the 20th Century Fox theme tune for a minute there. That would be cool, but no, it's not that. You guys are headed like kind of in the right direction, but you need to go off on a little side quest. Is it, uh, I'm like song, movie, theatre? TV shows here. Yes, TV.

TV, okay. Famous TV show sounds from what year? We haven't been told yet. Oh, it started in the 1990s. Ooh. It what year? We don't know. We haven't been told yet. It started in the 1990s. Ooh. It's still going on today, though. Okay, there aren't many shows that have been going that long.

The Simpsons, no, that starts with like a choir. The Simpsons has probably perioded it. Perioded-ed-ed-ed it? Like, it's probably been refer— I haven't watched The Simpsons, but I can fully assume that The Simpsons have made a reference to it. You said gavel. So now I'm assuming it's done. Done. Done. Done. Done. Done. Law and order. My dad had that on all times of the day. Exactly. Oh my god.

Yeah, but I don't really associate it with much except for the... How is that 500 Japanese men? They could have used like three probably. No, it's not the theme music. It's the thing they use for transitions. It's the dun-dun. It's the two beats. Yes.

The dun-dun. Yeah, the dun-dun. But I still feel like they didn't need that many men. Which has a sound that... I mean, I never thought what that sound was. So apparently, the door being slammed is large and made of metal. Okay, jail, that makes sense. The gavel, the 500 Japanese minutes, the da-da-da-dun.

And they were all combined together by Mike Post, which, what a brilliant last name. Yeah, he's legendary. He composed a lot of TV theme tunes. I think it's the A-Team, among others. Yeah. Oh, wow. And apparently, since it's technically a piece of music, he receives a royalty every time it's played.

So... Whoa! It's like, bravo. Yeah, that's the best job ever. Ever. Because Law and Order plays constantly over here. Like, constantly. I never thought about that sound effect.

But yeah, you break it down, it's got a jail cell door, it's got a gavel, and it just needed a lot more noise. So like, alright, here's a big thump to add to it. Whose decision was that to get 500? They're like, what about 400? No. 500. Japanese men. The last order of business then. Thank you to Dimitri for sending in this question. Why

would you be disappointed to hear that you have to take the number 11 bus to your destination? Anyone guessing that before I send it off to the audience? I get terrible anxiety riding buses, so any bus would be terrible for me, because I would just be an anxious, sweaty mess, fully assuming I would get lost. Disappointed, rather than anxiety. Is that the one that doesn't have free Wi-Fi? I don't think any of them in London have free Wi-Fi. I've never heard of this before.

What a fancy bus. Come to the North. Welcome to Sheffield. We have free Wi-Fi. I don't want to pay £ pounds for a bus, though. That's fair, yes. And excellent pins. Great vintage tools. And you can now pay contactless on the tram.

I don't know what else you want in life, really, if I'm honest. I mean... To go to Meadow Hall? Oh, boom. Meadow Hall used to be a prison. That was my last lateral, yeah. Blew Tom's mind. Meadow Hall used to be a prison. Sorry, Tom, the buses.

Sorry. So bus 11 is disappointing because it's one more than ten. The numbers don't do anything fun, they're just... But 1111's lucky. Well, the number is relevant, but it's not the number itself, it's more like the shape of the number. Because it looks like L's, so it gets confusing. This is a metaphorical phrase. They're just lines, right?

Yeah, just two straight lines. Because it looks like a Roman numeral too. Oh, nearly. I thought you got it there, Evan. I thought you got it. Oh, damn. If you do take this, you will get to your destination more slowly, and you'll be more tired. Is it walking? Ruth, keep talking. Is it some reference to using your legs?

Yes, why might that be? Like, legs 11? Like in, I don't know. Two ones look like legs, is that supposed to be it? Yes. This is a Russian language expression. Dmitri said this is from growing up in Belarus. It's common slang.

The number 11 bus is your legs. It's your legs, yes. Oh. You could also take the leather express. See, I think we'd have got it if it was that one. Thank you very much to all our players. Let's find out what's going on in your lives. Where can people find you?

We will start with Ruth. So I'm building kids' invention ideas over kids' invent stuff. You can also find me at the moment on yesterday, building inventions from practical mechanics on Masters of Reinvention. Evan. You can find him at the Savoy with a cat. You can find me at the Savoy.

You can find me at youtube.com slash Evan. I've been working on a lot of videos from different trips abroad and hopefully I've got a video with a member of parliament coming out next month which is very exciting. I think by the time this episode goes out that may well already be on your channel. And Abby? If I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram, TikTok, I am Abbie Cox, wherever you feel like socializing somewhere. But my best stuff's on YouTube and currently I think, I don't know when this video is going to come out, but the video coming out will, I have recently, will probably be about corsetry because I have like a three video series going on. If not it

might be about Belladonna and Botox which is very exciting. And behind the scenes I'm working on a book. And if you want to know more about this show you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at lateralcast basically everywhere and there are video highlights every week, regularly at youtube.com slash lateralcast. Thank you very much to Abby Cox. Thank you for having me, this was fun!

Eben Edinger. Thank you. Ruth Amos. Thanks for having me. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.