Lateral with Tom Scott - 146: Christopher Wren's side hustle

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Luke Cutforth, Corry Will and Hannah Crosbie face questions about feather farmers, B-52 blinds and moist municipalities. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Pascal de Vries, Steve Dee, Michaela Wheeler, Peter Scandrett, Matthew Yong, Arthur Reis, Yakir Forman. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. In Kentucky, what is a moist county? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott and this is Lateral. It's a special episode of Lateral today, which I will now prove with maths. We normally do seven questions in every show. This is the 143rd Lateral to be recorded. That means at some point during this episode,

I will have asked our one thousandth question! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa that is of course assuming that you don't count the shiny bonus questions and of course there was the pilot run that we did before the podcast, that we didn't really do much with. Anyway, let's celebrate Question 1000, which probably happened about two months ago. At least our guests have arrived right on schedule. First, we have, returning to the show, wine critic for The Guardian, Hannah Crosby. Welcome back.

Hello, I'm so gassed to be invited back. I can't believe it. Did I really do that well first time? Well, thank you very much for coming back on the show. Last time we talked to you, you were in South Africa having sampled just a huge number of sparkling wines in one day. How are you feeling? What are you doing today? Today, I am in Walthamstow, sampling the best that the local Tesco's has to offer.

I'm currently in a bit of a housing crisis, so I'm in my friend's garden live and direct here today. So a bit of a vibe switch from South Africa, but happy to be here. Thank you very much for taking the time. I always sort of ask guests what are they working on at the minute, but I assume the answer is wine. Oh yeah, it's always wine. You don't need to ask any more questions. Joining you on the show today, we have both halves of the PsyGuys podcast, and which one do we want to go to first?

Kori, we're going to go to you. Kori, Will, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having us back. Oh my god. I almost called you Luke. Let me do that again. No, that works great. No, that's fine. You know what? Here's the thing. I was going to call Luke on this because I appreciate, Luke, that, as the other half of the Sci Guys podcast, you have put a giant lateral logo behind you on your screen, there

is purple lighting in your room, but you do look like you're the host now. Hey, you know, dress for the job you want, Tom. You know, like, you're going to retire one day. Yeah, well, what will happen is we'll have a screen of guest hosts, and then one of those will start appearing, like every other panel show there is. And then slowly your guest hosts will start mysteriously disappearing, and I'll be the only one left.

Oh, murder mystery panel show. There's a format that I'm now copywriting. LAUGHTER Corry, I was talking to you, but tell us about the podcast. What have you been working on lately? Yeah, so, Sci Guys podcast, it's a comedy science thing, and we're coming back to do more comedy than science in the next few weeks. Isn't that right? Luke, Luke.

Sorry, I'm hosting now. I'm the captain. Everyone's the host but me today. Yeah, we're just trying to, like, mix the show up a little bit and just bring loads of the fun back and just make it so much more about just us to mix the show up a little bit and just bring loads of the fun back and just make it so much more about just us having a good time with a science basis, as opposed to us trying to deliver you a lecture. Well, very best of luck both with the new format and with the show today.

We are already fashionably late with question 1000, so let's not dwell any further as we trudge towards question 1. Thank you to Peter Scandret for this question. In 2013, the credits for the BBC's discussion show, Question Time, included the name of Sir Christopher Wren. Why? I'll say that again. In 2013, the credits for the BBC's discussion show, Question Time,

included the name of Sir Christopher Wren. Why? Because he worked on the show. LAUGHTER We did it. Straight down the middle. The show is called Direct, right? He does direct thinking. LAUGHTER

Just once, this is actually question 1000, just to break tradition. I just go, yes, correct, and we move on. Nice, easy one. Should we perhaps explain what question time is for anyone who isn't from the UK? Yeah. Okay, so, wait, question time. That's the one where you go and ask questions of people...

You're made to do this for them. Often... Oh yeah, no, Corey, you started this, we keep going. Often politicians and others. Yeah, they ask questions for a period of time. Yeah, so Question Time travels around the country to different locations. So it was once hosted in my school that I went to, actually, interestingly. And they basically pick a city and they say, we're going to be in this location next week.

So if you're in that location, come and be in the audience and submit a question. And basically the format is, pick members of the public, stand up, ask a question, and there's a bunch of, usually politicians and then maybe like political adjacent people. Like, so for example, Tommy Robinson was on it once.

Yeah, that's really the only person I can remember. This is one of those half politics, half entertainment shows, depending on who's on the panel that week and how much they're blurring the lines on it. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think it would be quite helpful if I knew who Christopher Wren was. It's a name that sounds really familiar, but I might need reminding anyone can help me.

It does sound familiar, yes. I agree. Luke? Depending on your history knowledge and what you were taught in what years in school, I think this is a name I'd have recognised. I think if you're a little younger, this is probably dropped from the syllabus now. This is a famous English architect from history. Okay.

I'm Scottish, so no kidding. Oh, did he design like the Royal Albert Hall or something? Ooh. Yeah, where was it recorded? Yeah. Well, did he? Did he design the Royal Albert Hall? Well, he designed many things, yes.

But was one of them the Royal Albert Hall? Come on, sneaky boy. So Question Time was filmed in a building that he designed? Yes. And I don't think we're going to get much more out of that question if you don't know that Sir Christopher Wren famously was the designer of St Paul's Cathedral. Ahhhh. Oooh. Hmm.

So, talk me through it. What's going on? Why is he in the credits? Well, special thanks section. Thanks for the building. Oh. I guess. There's a very specific credit. He was actually after the executive editor, the director, the executive producer. He was the very last credit in there. Was he sponsoring the thousandth episode of Question Time? His last Will and Testament.

Okay, so, let me go out on a limb here. Was this specific episode of Question Time filmed in St Paul's Cathedral? Yes, it was. Yes. They went to the biggest, most famous place you could probably film something like this. So why... yeah. It sounds like there's more to it than that. Is this some quirk of the sort of film and TV industry, where they needed to credit something?

Not in this case. It's not like a legal requirement. Is there like a statue or a painting of him? So because he was technically in it, he had to be thanked. Well, it sounds like from what Tom said earlier about being like later in the credits, then even like the exec producers, that they are thanking him or crediting him for something that is like so fundamental to this production. I'm wondering like, was the first ever question time in St. Paul's Cathedral? And then this is like some kind of anniversary episode? No, but how might he have contributed to the show?

He had the idea and he had it inscribed somewhere in St. Paul's Cathedral. On the roof. Someone's looking up and went, that'd be a really good idea for a show actually. There is a specific credit that you might give someone that they decided to give to Sir Christopher Wren for this one. Associate producer. That's a very niche. Yeah, Luke, just read off.

Luke, you're the film man. Read off every single... It's very literal. it's what he did. Architect. Oh my gosh. Is it production designer, set designer or something? That's it. That's it.

Shut on, Corey. The very last credit on that episode of Question Time, after the producers, after the directors, set design Sir Christopher Wren. Just because they wanted to show off. The only set designer ever to be credited with higher billing than the executive staff. Right! Yes. Yeah, no event of sort of nepotism, nepo baby stuff is going to get you back.

I think we need to go to Sir Christopher Wren's Wikipedia page. You know when you have an actor who also writes a book and also sings two songs? And it's like actor, musician, and... I think we need to go to his Wikipedia page and write, who also writes a book and also sings two songs, and it's like actor-musician and... Yep. I think we need to go to his Wikipedia page and write, So Christopher Wren was an architect and set designer for the BBC. Yes.

Who's... Luke, we're going to take the next question from you whenever you're ready. Yes, my question has been sent in by Michaela Wheeler. It is, why is a tape measure traveling at around 7.5 kilometers per second? I'll ask that question again. Why is a tape measure traveling at around 7.5 kilometers per second? I wish I knew off the top of my head, like orbital speeds. I feel like I should. That's something I should know.

That's what I was thinking. That feels like orbital speed. That's where my head went. Yeah. But would they need a tape measure in the space station? Because you know how long everything is anyway, because it's all been built to spec. How do you think they know how far up they are, Cory? LAUGHTER Oh yeah, we don't have a space elevator. We just have a space tape measure that just gets dropped down.

Yeah, it just whizzes past you in the internet. You have to glance really closely and go, Ah! 100 kilometres! God, imagine that catching your fingers on the way back up. That's what I was thinking, Anna. At some point someone flicks it accidentally. That's when it's seven and a half kilometres, so it's coming back in. Although, I do like the idea that you have a tape measure in space, in kind of microgravity, and you flick it, and then not only does it come back in it then

starts the whole thing just rotating very quickly. Yeah, it would though wouldn't it? It would, yeah. Oh, this is unrelated or maybe it's not unrelated. Maybe this is the lateral part. I'm being very meta here. Maybe... Do you know those snap bands from like... Are they from the 90s? Oh yeah, the ones that they're straight and then you put it around your wrist and it bends round. Yeah. I think I cut one open once and it was literally just a tape measure. Yeah, it's a bit of old tape measure that put stuff around. Recycling, we love it. Okay, Luke being surprised tells me that it's not to do with snap bands.

Okay, it's nothing to do with the snap bands. But I will say that you are on the right track with where you started to begin with. It's very impressive how far you got in literally like one second. I'm like the tape measure. I'm just traveling. It's got to be somewhere outside the atmosphere, presumably, or it's got to be not relative to the speeds you'd expect, because seven and a half kilometres per second, a tape measure going through air is just going to burn up at that speed.

Yes, you are correct there, Tom. Did someone accidentally leave their tape measure, because I've done something like this before, did someone accidentally leave their tape measure in like something heading to Mars. Yeah. I've got my keys. I've got my wallet. I feel like there's something. Question to that.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You've done something like that before. Yeah. Yeah. We've all been there. You know, when, do you know how, do you know how you, when you just shoot something into space every now and then, say a tape measure or garlic bread, you know, that's a normal thing that we all do.

Yeah, I'm the only person on this podcast, as far as I know, who has sent something to space. I think, yeah. I sent something to the edge of space. It wasn't, it wasn't traveling that fast. Okay. Look, I just think if you're going to come at me for sending a tape measure to space, you really got to think about where you're coming from? So is it the tape measure is extending at that speed, or is it just like a tape measure and it's moving itself quite fast?

The tape measure is not extending. The tape measure has already been extended. But not at that speed. At a very normal speed for a tape measure. I'm just full of ideas like the aren't good ones, like going on a on a spacewalk and, you know, you're Sandra Bullock, you're on a spacewalk. What happens? Your line gets cut. But George Clooney has the other end of the tape measure.

Oh, your line gets cut, but George Clooney has the other end of the tape measure. OK, let me just slice these possibilities in half for you, slightly, and tell you that the tape measure is not there accidentally. Yeah, my brain is going, is this an actual tape measure, or is this sort of like... It's an actual tape measure. ...a physics tape measure that's perfectly spherical, in a frictionless plane. Because the answer to a lateral question can't be because someone needs to take measure on the ISS. That's a bit, yes. That's it. We've done it. Congratulations. Yeah, the thousandth question is just going to be easy, I think. You know, we got to find out.

No, it is a natural tape measure. You are correct that it is in space. I want you to think about, and you've already touched on this, what are the other things that tape measures do that aren't measuring? The snapper and your wrist. Yeah, we've been through this. Is it the entire tape measure that's moving, or is it just part of the tape measure that's moving? The entire thing is moving. The tape measure is moving. It's not extending or like it's just as an object it is moving.

It will, it's kind of held under tension, isn't it? Because if you don't lock it into place, it will just spring back to where it came from. So is there some way that you need to to have a long metal strip held under tension like that in space? Is it to cross over something? You're getting pretty close, Tom. You're getting pretty close. Is it conductive?

Is that maybe something? That is getting closer. Not conductive, but think about the material properties of a tape measure. Specifically, we are talking to be clear because you've already got it and you've actually assumed it. Interestingly, it's not a fabric tape measure. It's not a floppy tape measure. It is one of those metal tape measures that can curl up in a little circle, which you've been assuming the whole time, which is correct. Oh my, hold on. You're using it as a... are you using it as some kind of, like, motor

or electromagnet? Because it's coiled. If you run a current through a coiled wire, would that work? No. No. You're getting colder now. But, think about that coiling mechanism. Someone on the ISS needed an emergency antenna. Um... Tom, you are closer than you think with that joke. Okay, okay. It's not on the ISS, but you're so close! What, a satellite then? Yes!

As an antenna for a satellite. Of course, I don't know why I got stuck on the ISS. I think it's because it's a physical thing that people would take up. But no, you can just... And it's also something that we talk about, the ISS moving at X number of kilometres per second quite often as well, yeah. So yes, you've got it. This is a satellite called BisonSat. It is one of many amateur nanosatell satellites that utilises a tape measure as an antenna for the device.

It takes this springy material and it's coiled up during the launch and then it's released once the satellite has reached space. A string keeps this little tape measure coiled up and then a resistor burns the string when it's time to release the antenna and as you know from if you've ever used a tape measure, it springs out. Well, when we use them on Earth, it springs in. But they use that same springing mechanism to spring it out, and that is then an antenna for your satellite. Oh, wonderful.

At the time of us recording, BisonSat is traveling at 26,800 kilometers per hour. It is a one kilogram cube, 10 centimeters by 10 centimeters by 10 centimeters There are so many of those cube stats up there But if you have if you have a university department with a good budget or even maybe a school with a very good budget You might be able to get one of those even a tiny smaller one up there And they just get sent out on some rocket launch with a hundred of them all getting launched Yeah, it's so interesting like they often use like a phone as the processor and even the camera.

And also in this case, a tape measure as the antenna. It's kind of like, yeah, you're just cobbling this thing together. It's very cool. Thank you to both Matthew Young and Arthur Rees for sending this question in. Some models of airplane such as the B-52 Stratofortress, the A4 Skyhawk and the F-111 Aardvark were equipped

with blinds in the cockpit. Why? I'll say that again. Some models of airplanes such as the B-52 Stratofortress, the A4 Skyhawk and the F-111 Aardvark were equipped with blinds in the cockpit. Why? Now I've just got the B-52s in my head. Now I've just got the B-52s in my head. Okay, so I know why we have blinds on a normal airplane. So when you're asked, like, can you put the blinds up or blinds down or whatever, that's because, as far as I remember, it's because you want your eyes to already be adjusted to the outside light, just in case you basically crash and you need to be able to see pretty quickly. So that's not why we have blinds on an airplane, but it's why we have to lift our blinds,

and that might be some way relevant. And it's also the reason that they will dim the cabin lights for landing or takeoff at night so that your eyes are adjusted just in case you need to evacuate. It's quite bleak often when you're on an airplane, just how many things they're doing just in case you crash. Like, for all the lovers down. I read once that the, I don't know if this is true, but I read once that the brace position

is actually nothing to do with your safety, it's to make it easier to identify your body if they crash. I don't know if that's true, but that is what I heard. Cover up that pretty face of yours, we're going to need that later. Teeth, I think, mostly. Yeah, yeah. But also, if you really cared about safety on planes, you would fit the seats backwards. Right.

You are much less likely to have a serious injury in, like, a collision or something like that. If you are facing backwards, because you just kind of get pushed into your seat. Like, sort of baby car seats. The really young ones. They're all facing. They have to be facing backwards. That would feel so much cooler on takeoff as well. Whoa! It's like a backwards rollercoaster. And then you'd be pointing towards the ground as you went up.

Like, whoa! Oh, no, no, no. You're going to give me nightmares. You could directly identify the reason that didn't happen. They should all be on little motors and as soon as you're up in the air they go... Kind of like the voice, you know? I just feel like Will.i.am as I crash into the sea. Okay, we should probably get back to the question. So, Blind, I want to make sure, it's not in case your co-pilot wants to have a little

snooze. It's not, no. Because these are probably single person... No, not the Stratophorus. It's very difficult to say that, but the Stratophorus is a big plane. It's kind of in the name. Obviously, yeah. We all know the Stratophorus. Well, look, that's assuming that I actually remembered the names of any of those players. Yeah, as you were saying the prompt, I was like, I knew there was a reason I brought a notepad last time.

There's a hawk, there's an aardvark, or did I mishear aardvark and it's actually adnevic or something? No, no, you've got Stratophorus, Skyhawk and aardvark. So I'm going to say, is this, Okay, so remember from history in primary school, I think the reason we turned off all of our lights during the blitz was so that German bombers couldn't find us. So is this like, you've got all your cockpit lights and things on your dashboard lights, are you putting the blinds down so that you can't be detected by other aircraft, like from the little lights shining out the window?

That's not the reason, but you have identified that these are military planes. Okay, so there are those weird military planes where they're like all weird shapes so that radar like bounces off them in different angles and they can't be detected. Is that anything to do with it? I'm gonna let you all talk about this for a while. Okay, so no. Is that anything to do with it? I'm gonna let you all talk about this for a while. Okay. So no. Okay. So let's have a think about what things blinds do.

Other than, they keep heat in or out. They block light coming out and light coming in. I mean, that's the same thing. Is it like, oh, are these planes like flying above the level where you'd get sunburned if you didn't have blinds? A lot of planes do that anyway. But in that case, you would use a filter or just something to cut UV in the windscreen. You wouldn't need to put the blinds down for that.

Is it about not being detected or not being seen? No. Not at this time. Is it maybe for being detected or not being seen? No, not at this time. Is it maybe for when they're not in use? Because I know we're thinking, you know, oh, how would you use it when they're, but when they're not in use, there might be some reason that you have blinds. Okay, well, I have a pilot friend and he told me this absolutely terrifying but also very reassuring thing, which is that in order to pass his pilot's license, he has to be able to land a plane without seeing out the windows at all. He has to be able to just look at

the dashboard, the sort of instruments on that dashboard and be able to perfectly safely land the plane, assuming it's like full fog or the windows are cracked or you've randomly... yeah, you've got no way of seeing out the windows at all. So is it for training, maybe? Or is there some circumstance under which you actually want to not see outside and you just want to see the interior of a cockpit? That last bit, Luke, is absolutely right. There is a reason why folks in the plane would not want to see outside. Too scary. Too scary.

Oh, high up! Oh, look! Hmm. We are talking about military planes here. Lasers! Laser beams coming through the windows. Current military planes, I assume, not future space military planes. Yep. Cold War military planes is another term.

Cold War. Nuclear something? Something nuclear? Oh! So you're not completely blinded by a possible atomic blast or...? That is the correct answer. Yes. That is absolutely right. These are planes that carry nuclear ordnance. This is quite a dark question.

These blinds are designed to protect the pilots from the flash of a nuclear bomb detonation. And Luke, you were right, it's not just the light, it's the heat as well. So on the B-52, these were curtains with a reflective layer and a stiffener, and a rubberized vinyl cloth just to cut everything out. These days they use past tinting goggles, but back in the Cold War, the answer was, if something big's gonna go off, you close the blinds and you keep flying. JANIE I reckon if you're gonna drop a nuclear bomb, you should have the blinds open.

You know what I mean? Yeah. If you're going to do that, you take a little bit of it yourself. Solidarity. Yeah. No, no. Yes, these were Cold War nuclear bombers and the instructions to the pilots were, if something's going to go off, close the blinds.

Hannah, your the blinds. Hannah, your question. Sure. This question has been sent in by Pascal De Vries. A farmer sells the eggs, meat and fat from the birds he breeds. He also sells the feathers, but only from their left wings. Why? I'll read that again. The farmer sells the eggs, meat and fat from the birds he breeds. He also sells the feathers, but only from their left wings.

Why? All of his customers are communists. Yeah. They wouldn't be buying them then, would they? Sure, yeah, sorry. Sells, buys. What does that even mean? Oh, um, exclusively sells to Jeremy Corbyn. There we go. That's it. We'll workshop this one. Well, what kind of bird first, I think, because that, that might help, right? Like is it an

ostrich? Maybe. Why were is it an ostrich, maybe? Why were we both thinking ostrich? Why? I feel like it's the least, it's the sort of most out of left field edible bird. Bird. Yeah. There was the ostrich scam, I think in the late 90s, I want to say. There were a couple of companies that were set up to do ostrich farming.

And they got investors to buy in. It was the poultry of the future. It didn't end well for the investors or for the ostriches. Yeah. I think it's doubtful whether there were any ostriches in the first place. I'm vaguely remembering something from years ago. But certainly, ostrich farming, there was an attempt to do it. It didn't go well.

Wow, scammers are really running out of ideas, aren't they? Ah, no, they just kept putting their heads in the sand. There it is! Let's see! Ah! Very good. Sorry, Hannah, can you repeat the bit before the bit about the left wing? What are the other bits of produce?

Of course, so the bits of the produce are... Yeah. Eggs, meat and fat from the birdseab breeds. That's specific. I'm thinking this might be from maybe a video game or something. It's not, unfortunately. Before you go down that rabbit hole, and something tells me you will, we're going to keep out. It's not video games, I'm afraid. Well, you will. We're going to keep out, it's not video games, I'm afraid. Out of interest, is there some reason why, is the left wing much bigger for some reason?

Or they've selectively bred these left wings, or they're making them work out but just on one side? It could be some horrible factory farming thing, couldn't it? Well, the birds have only been born with left wings. I mean, I wouldn't know. Well, the birds have only been born with left wings. Uh, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be that surprised. Yeah. I seem to remember you're vegan, Luke. Yes, yes. Yes. Specifically because of this fact, actually, if only I could remember it. Yeah, what, is there something wrong with the right wing, or is it in some way deficient

or... It's not that there's something wrong or deficient with the right wing, it's just that the left wing is specifically... The feathers of the left wing can be specifically used for something. Keep going down... Yeah, keep trying to guess what kind of bird it is. Fat is very specific. The only birds I know where you can buy their fat are ducks and geese.

You can buy duck fat and goose fat for cooking. Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. Keep going. The feathers, is it down feathers? I'm thinking of like down feathers for like pillows or something. Luke, you've got an idea. I'm thinking... I love the idea that the most expensive pillows are just left-handed feathers.

Would you buy a left-handed shop? Obviously. Yes. Of course. Or if you sleep on your left side, maybe, you can only a left-handed shop, obviously. Yes, of course. Or if you sleep on your left side, maybe, you can only have left feathers. All the feathers have to go the same way to provide the correct comfort on your expensive pillow. Yeah. I'm thinking maybe the feathers are used for something like... do we use feathers for archery?

Because that would mean that they would be pointing in one direction and that might make the thing fly correctly. Oh, Luke, you're so nearly there. It's not archery. It's not archery. But it's for aerodynamics. Because they will grow in different directions on each wing, won't they? So what else needs to get rifled with feathers?

Oh, shuttlecocks! Yes! Yay! Well done, well done. You were so close, you just got the sport wrong. You just needed the sport. Yes, so goose feathers are used to produce professional-quality badminton shuttlecocks. By standardising the feathers to the left wing only,

the shuttlecock will always spin clockwise, which is more predictable for professional badminton players. Using the right wing feathers makes the shuttlecock spin the wrong way. And then interestingly, using a mixture of left and right feathers will cause it to wobble. Thank you to Jakir Forman for this next question. In the late 19th century,

some carpets at a San Francisco facility got gradually more valuable over time. The managers of the facility ordered for the carpets to be burned every few years. Why? And one more time. In the late 19th century, some carpets at a San Francisco facility got gradually more valuable over time. The managers of the facility ordered for the carpets

to be burned every few years. Why? This must be like that thing where fashion labels destroy excess stock in order to keep the price up so they can't be sold at like TK Maxx or something. Yeah, or maybe they're getting stolen and you know it's just too kind of like dangerous to have these carpets continue to be stolen, so instead they publicly burn them because of how valuable they are. A public burning. I love that we've gone to a public burning. This is the bonfire night.

You're going to the public burning today? Wondering what this facility is, I feel like that might be the... The only other possibility I can think of is if it's a material that attracts some kind of bug or vermin that you have to destroy, so you burn it in order to kill the bed bugs or something. But why would that make it more valuable? Maybe they're like silkworms or something. My mind is going to this facility produces something and excess bits of that something somehow get tracked into a carpet. But I can't imagine a facility that

produces anything having a carpet because that just seems unsanitary and it's a pain to rip it up and burn it. Tom, can I ask, is the burning of the carpets an entirely separate thing from the fact that the carpets go up in price? No, very much connected. So it's a form of, well, the most obvious thing would be like it's a form of demand supply control, like you have in fancy labels. Is the burning of the carpets for the purpose of destruction? Or is there some other reason they might burn the carpets? Like a festival or something.

Or like when you go to a restaurant and they set your drink on fire on the top of it. But they do that with your carpet. Like put loads of ethanol on it and then it's done. Or is it the production process? Is it the production process has to be burned? Are they maybe more valuable because they have been the carpets that a celebrity or someone has walked on and then, but I mean maybe was celebrity like that enormous of a thing? Red carp thing. Red carpets. Red carpets.

Yeah, red carpets. Yes, there is a thing about Cannes Film Festival. They have the red carpets and they destroy them every year and remake a new one from scratch. They never reused them and they do destroy them. I don't know if they destroy them by burning them, but they do destroy them. But Luke, the film industry is not very wasteful at all. Why would they do destroy them. I don't know if they destroy them by burning them, but they do destroy them. But Luke, the film industry is not very wasteful at all. Why would they do that? They'll just AI the carpet in later.

They'll film a carpet there and then they'll CG it out and then they'll AI it in again. Yeah. Just so you get that real carpet look. Yeah. It's all green spray paint. Real carpet look. Yeah. It's all green spray paint. Of the theories being thrown out so far, Currie, yours was closest.

You were talking about things being trodden into the carpets isn't quite right, but certainly there was a production process and there was some... waste is the wrong term, but some inefficiencies there. Hmm. In inefficiencies there. Hmm. Inefficiencies. What are these carpets made from? Is the fire burning something off? Or is it, like, getting something in?

Is it, like, sealing something in to the carpet, imbuing the carpet with something? Neither of those things, Luke. There is a third possible option for why you might want to burn those carpets. What? Why you might want to burn those carpets? Are we thinking of the wrong kind of burning? Like, something burning going up in flames, or burning... No, literal burning. Literal burning.

The only other option of, like, burning something off or imbuing something in, to me that's the... the carpets are on fire. That's the thing. Oh, you're saying burning something off there. That's not the right term. It's close. But that would entail something getting... Oh, like transforming it in some way. So you put something on it and then when you burn it it becomes a different chemical, material, that kind of thing. This is one of very few substances where that would not happen. Okay.

Okay, so what substances don't change when you burn them? Where you burn it and it doesn't change. Gold. Gold. Gold? Gold? Oh, is it jewelry companies don't want their employees taking gold from the carpets, and so they burn them?

Ah. Or, they burn away the carpet to get the leftover gold. Oh, to get the gold, yeah. That's it. That's the mysterious third option there, Luke. Yes. Oh, well done. So the carpet is somewhere where people drop loads of gold.

Or is it just like filament from sanding and also production? Oh, they recycle the gold. You're right, this is gold dust trapped in the carpets that is being recovered. Is this a silly rich people thing where the gold doesn't actually do anything, but the fact that it is a gold carpet is just like, yay, exciting. Is this some joke I'm too poor to understand? No, no, this was one of several facilities across America, that you write production process that includes gold in the late 19th century. No, no, this was one of several facilities across America.

Your right production process that includes gold in the late 19th century. If you happened to be in America in the late 19th century, you would almost certainly have dealt with this facility's output in some way or another. So Luke, you're old. What was America like in the late... One of several facilities operated by the US government. Oh, was it US Mint then? There it is!

Yes. So they weren't... Oh! Do you know when you... Do you know... I've heard that before! I didn't know this prior to... So was this in a time when there was actual gold in coins? Yes. These are the carpets in the adjusting room at the US Mint in San Francisco. They collected gold and silver dust from mint operations.

And so burning the carpet meant that you could recover all those precious metals. They were much more valuable than the carpet. And according to a newspaper article from 1893, one carpet-burning session released $3,200 worth of metal, which in 1893 is a lot of money. That's a fair whack. That's so funny, when you first asked the question, I was like, maybe the carpets are made of gold.

I was like, no, stupid, stupid. What was the question? Yeah, there's a report from 1886 that says 171 ounces of gold and 44 ounces of silver were reclaimed from a batch of carpets that had been used for several years. So that is a lot of metal. It's like finding some loose change down the back of the sofa. See what I find?

Yeah. Currie, it is over to you. So this question has been sent in by Steve D. In the 1970s, third party companion products for Dungeons and Dragons explained in detail how likely it was for a dragon to be untruthful. They swiftly stopped doing so and have never done since. What happened? In the 1970s, third-party companion product for Dungeons and Dragons explained in detail how likely it was for a dragon to be untruthful. They swiftly stopped doing so and never have since. What happened?

I could I just say this is a really really apt question for me right now because I am so, so into Dungeons & Dragons as of the past few weeks. Oh, really? It's been my whole life. Is anyone else here a D&D player? Because I'm not. No, my wife is, but not me. A couple of times ages and ages and ages ago. I can shout down to her if you want. Yeah.

I have a friend who goes to a place that has, like, professional games masters. Somewhere in London, there's a little tavern where, you know, because it's a big operation to run a game of D&D. You have to do a load of storytelling, do a load of research. That is now a service for hire at one place in London. You can just turn up with your adventurers and just have a professional deal with the paperwork for you. Oh, brilliant.

Wow. Does anyone understand sort of the basics? I guess you need to understand the basics of how D&D works as a game. Communal storytelling, right? With rules. Yeah, and specifically you sort of roll dice to determine some things. There's numbers and whatnot in there as well. All right. I'm thinking of like these third, what was the phrase? Third party,

third party companion pieces. Is that like a rule book or maybe it's an additional dice, but the dice had like a stupid amount of sides. So it just only like landed on one number ever. That's really funny that you say this dice had a stupid amount of sides as opposed to a normal dice. As opposed to all the others. Doesn't that say a number of sides? I literally found a dice with a hundred sides the other day. What's that shape even called?

That is not out of the realm of possibility, but no, yet you're so spot on. The fact that it's a third party book is very important. So that means it's published by someone who is not the official manufacturer. It is, and tie in, it's an extra thing that someone else has made going, we're going to play in your world for a bit. Which means that- It's about dragons. Was it written by a dragon?

And dragons are like, oh my god, we tell the truth all the time. What's the big deal? There was a slander and libel lawsuit from dragons, from the actual concept of dragons. And you're lucky that it was a lawsuit as well, because usually they would just eat you. Yes. So the fact they've gone down the legal route is fantastic. It's really very civil of the dragons, isn't it?

I'm wondering, like, so you said that they had like a score for how trustworthy they were. And I'm wondering, like, is there a mechanism to determine trustworthiness in non-third party D&D? Is that actually a thing that you normally would roll the dice for to determine trustworthiness and having it sort of set, especially by a third party, interrupted the game or upset some people? So, it's third party book. So, it is to do with the statistic that is measured in game. You're right on that, Luke. And there is sort of a mismatch between what's in these third party books and what is actually supposed to happen in the game.

That's often a thing when you have kind of that external content. Even if it's officially licensed, like Star Wars basically wrote off decades of novels and extra stuff because Disney bought them and wanted to put new movies out. So presumably whatever was in the third-party book kind of got overruled later, either accidentally or deliberately by the officials. So, it wasn't so much that it was overruled later. It was wrong to begin with. It was wrong to begin with, yeah, exactly.

Because dragons can't talk. Of course. But they can still be dishonest, even if they don't talk. Dragons can talk common and draconic, actually, yeah. So I'm guessing that maybe, like, while you don't directly roll for something like trustworthiness, you do roll for something like truth, or something that would have an effect on trustworthiness, even if it's not directly trustworthiness. No. So it's actually a statistic for whether or not the dragon would be at home. So you roll to determine whether the dragon would be at home. And if he's told you he's not, he's untrustworthy.

If he says that he is, but he says he's not. It was whether the dragon is untruthful, right? Yes. So that was... So these books explained in detail how likely it was for a dragon to be truthful, and this statistic is about whether or not the dragon is going to be at home when you arrive there. LL They don't have homes. C They do have homes, but where would you often find a dragon?

LL They have lairs. C Yeah, they do. J And a lair, OK. LL OK. With a bunch of gold coins that he got from melting loads of carpets. Carpets, yes. With the pyrograph. That's actually, yeah.

Oh, perfect. Yeah. Is the book just like an enormous list of individual dragons and they're, instead of kind of like choosing it in the game, it's actually just like lots of dragons to pick from, but they're also like unlicensed Dragons for the game. No so that it's not so much to do with the dragons as it is to do just with a statistic and this sort of this sort of mix up between the statistic of whether it's going to be at home and how trustworthy it is is All to do with the production error. It's really going to affect your storytelling if you're

building up a big fight with a dragon, and then you get to the cave, having this is going to be the big evil boss at the end, and you roll the dice and he's like, ah, he's not home. Sorry. Soz, he's just popped out some milk and some... some burnination of peasants. Okay, so imagine you're playing D&D, right? You're doing your quest, you get to a cave, you ask the DM, is the dragon home? And the DM's like, well, you better roll for it. So you roll for it.

Dragon is home. But then you check your book and it says dragon's trustworthy. So you're still going to go into the cave. Not exactly, no. So there's, it's, it's to do with the production error. Um, I remember what, what would a Dragon's home be called? A Latin home center. Oh, for God's sake. Go ahead, Tom.

It was talking about the dragon's lyre. Yep. Yep. So... You kept picking up on it being lair, not cave. Damn it. So in early versions, la layer was printed as liar, and then, obviously, sort of third party books would have taken that, run with it, not really understood the rules, and so invented

all of this extra information for dragons being truthful or untruthful, when actually, it was just to do with whether you're walking through a lair, is there going to be a dragon there or not? That's basically the Dungeons and Dragons equivalent of cartographers copying each other's maps. Yep. And they're judging themselves as lairs. Sorry, lairs. As lairs, yeah, absolutely.

Which means there is one thing left to do. At the top of the show I asked, in Kentucky, what is a moist county? Does anyone want to take a shot at that before I give the answer for the audience? I'm immediately thinking of dry and wet states, for about alcohol consumption, because that's what I do. Is a moist state people that only drink on the weekends? Moist county. Moist county, sorry. A moist county somewhere that only drinks on the weekends. Very close!

You've basically got it. It's not about time. Oh, does it have a lot of speakeasies? Is that it? They're dry, but you can get some if you want. You can get a little moist. Is it to do with licensing laws about where Canon can't sell alcohol in different counties? Yes, that's right.

Hannah, you're right that a dry county or a dry parish or a dry borough is one where alcohol sales are banned. A wet county is somewhere where it is. And a moist county has a few areas, a few cities or precincts, where you can buy alcohol. Absolutely right. Thank you very much to all of our players. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Curry. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Curry.

What's going on in my life? I'm still doing Sci Guys. Still trucking away. You can find me at any of the Sci Guys places at Sci Guys pod or on my personals at NotCurry everywhere. Luke. I also continue to be trapped in the Sci Guys universe.

So you can find me at Sci Guys pod in various places, and you can also find me on my personal socials at Luke Cutforth. And Hannah. And I am still doing my column at The Guardian, so if you could read that every week I would be incredibly grateful. And you can find me on social media at HannahCrosby, that's C-R-O-S-B. And if you want to know more about this show you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions.

We are at Lateral Cast basically everywhere. There are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash Lateral Cast, and the full show is available in video on Spotify. Thank you very much to Hannah Crosby. Thank you very much. Luke Cutforth. Merci beaucoup. Currywill.

Thanking you. I've been Tom Scott, that's been Lattr.