Lateral with Tom Scott - 165: Donut security

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Jack Chambers, Manu Henriot and Alex Bell from QI's 'Lunchbox Envy' face questions about dietary dials, spun signage and Twitch take-outs. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Peter Young, Oliver R., Gee Norman, Casey Ford, Katie Waning, Phil Thompson, Michael, Louise Hubbard, Ben, Jake. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2025. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Maybe it's just a phase you're going through. You'll get over it. I can't help you with that. The next appointment is in six months. You're not alone. Finding mental health support shouldn't leave you feeling more lost. At CAMH, we know how frustrating it can be trying to access care. We're working to build a future where the path to support is clear,

and every step forward feels like progress. Not another wrong turn. Visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care. Where in Spain can you find a dial that can be turned to tomato, wine, or olive oil? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. To find the correct path, you must pick the correct door. One door's guard always tells the truth.

The other door's guard always lies. And the third guard wonders why he doesn't have a door. And the fact that our three guests are here means that they have chosen the wrong door. Welcome to the lateral. We're here for the next 40 minutes or so. Can't win them all. We have the folks from Lunchbox Envy, the podcast.

Welcome back to the show, everybody. Hi. So hoping they don't take any more wrong turns. First of all, Mano Enrio, welcome back. Hello, thanks for having us. You should explain Lunchbox Envy. So it's a podcast where we look at the weird and wonderful stories

behind our, like, the things we eat every day. So it's me and my fellow QIL for Jack Chambers and our lovely friend, Rosie McKean, who's a chef and food writer. It's all brought together by a lovely producer Alex. And yeah, it's so much fun. And we eat so well every time we record. And thank you for introducing the other players today as well. Jack Chambers, welcome back to the show. Thank you very much. It's lovely to be here. I was obviously an important. impressed enough to come back. We have, I think, assembled some food-related questions again for the second time. Some of them are very tentative, but there should be some links in there.

I don't know if that's going to give you an advantage or not, but I suspect on food facts you are the people to go to. Yeah, I think so. As many said, we discuss the things that we eat every day, but also some of the things that people rarely eat, in fact. And often for good reason, there's some disgusting things we've really. up. But no, the stakes are high, given that it's our specialist. Oh, hey. And the last member of our trio today, we have the show's producer Alex Bell.

Welcome back. Hi, Tom. It's good to be back after such a long time. Was it five minutes since we've got a last episode? Or are we not in always in that? Despite the fact that we're all wearing the same clothes and in the exact same locations with the same haircuts. Like, yes, welcome back. I should ask what you are working on researching, producing, right? because it's going to be months until this episode comes out. What is Lunchbox envy coming out with soon? Well, we actually, I was just looking into apples. We've been doing some Apple research and I actually went all the way to the tree that Newton saw an apple fall from and was inspired to come up with his theory of gravity. And that's an amazing tree.

I actually can't remember the name of the house where it is now, but it's in Lincolnshire, right? It is, and it's this fantastically very, very old, but very, very healthy apple tree, which still fruits, loads of apples. And you can go there and visit, and they give you apples, and you can make apple crumble, which is what I am doing. Am I right in saying they send cuttings from that all over the world? I'm sure I've seen Newton's tree somewhere else.

All over the place. Yes, they've got one in Cambridge, at his college. They've got ones in all sorts of other famous, like, Apple Institute. They love a, they love a Newton tree. They send it into space as well, actually, a little bit of bark. I think they've really got their money's worth from that one. Well, good luck on the show today to all three of you. Unlike our door guard, I won't lie to you.

It's time to get on with the show and accept the truth that is question one. Thank you to Phil Thompson for this question. Who might be forced to turn around because they've left their taco at home? I'll say that again. Who might be forced to turn around because they've left their taco at home? I mean, I would. There's no real choice. internet. Is taco, is it going to be an acronym or initialism? Oh, that's a good idea. I was just thinking

that. Tacco does sound like an acronym, doesn't it? I mean, the only one I know is quite political. It's Trump always chickens out, but that would be here. Um, what could a taco be? We did the cube rule on the sandwiches episode, and a taco is the sort of structural starch of any food can be defined in different ways. Sorry, the cube rule? This is Jack's bonkers theory that he found on the internet. Absolutely ridiculous. So the cube rule, you basically define, it started, I mean, you have to listen to the episode to get the full story, but it's basically about the structure of food

and where the structural starch is according to the faces of a cube. So if you've got structural starch on one of the faces of a cube, then it's toast. Regardless, like cheesecake is toast. Pizza is toast. Right. And it goes all the way up to six. There's basically six types of food and one of them is taco.

Yeah. Yeah, so a parogi is type six, because it's on all sides. Yeah, it's a calzoni. Calzoni, in fact, yeah, yeah, yeah. But taco is three, because it's three sides, right? So if you have three sides connected, then that's the taco. Anyway, that's almost certainly got nothing to do with it. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

It's nothing to do with it. Is it something to do with a business? In my head, it's like serious. His livelihood depends on this taco. If you're returning home for your taco. Yes, forced to turn around is right there. Forced to. Is it, like, literally forced turn around?

Like, it's, like, something that stops your steering wheel from working, like... Ooh. Yeah, yes. I mean, I'm not sure if it actually immobilizes it. Is it law enforcement? Or is it physics? That's the game show there.

Is it law enforcement or is it physics? You're right, that Forced has several different levels there. This is law enforcement. Okay. So if you don't have attacker, you have to physically turn around. So is there some sort of safety device attached to a steering wheel known as a taco? Steering wheel is out of nowhere. That is correct.

You do get those ones where you can lock the steering wheel. But we don't necessarily know it's a car as well. It might be a different type of vehicle. Oh, you keep hitting things. Is it a helicopter? I'm getting the hang of this game. Or a luge. Helicotter.

What has a steering wheel that isn't a car? Well, it could just be a lot. Lorry or something? It could. Absolutely right, yes. So you're right. A truck driver would be forced to turn around if they left their tacco at home.

It is a legal requirement, and it is something to do with steering wheel and everything like that. I don't quite know how to kick this home because you've got the bits of the question that were meant to be the slightly harder ones first. Oh, I see. Is this in America?

No, Britain as well. Is it like, you know how you like have big furry dice? It's like legally you have to have a cheery little taco. There's a lot of like culture around truck driving and I sit. But that's not a legal thing. I think that's, yeah. Is it to do with having a rest? Yes, it is.

Yeah. Okay, good. Yes. Oh, is it a neck pillow? Actually, no, that would encourage you to sleep while you're on the job, wouldn't it? What do you mean by having a rest? Like, go into that one for me. So it's obviously quite dangerous

if you're driving an enormous lorry tired, because you could fall asleep at the wheel and then crash. So, is it like Mr. Bean? He's got like the toothpicks in his eyes. No, because that wouldn't be legal. Yes, that's true. You can't legally drive a lorry tired. Is it something that actually measures

how long a lorry driver has been driving? Yes, it is the tachograph. This is the tachograph. It records how long and how fast a vehicle has been driven. Wow. These days it is a credit card-shaped thing that you plug in to the vehicle's digital log. But it used to be an actual piece of paper in a circle. It would go behind the steering wheel.

And as you accelerated and decelerated, a... a little bit of graphite, like in a pencil, would move up and down and act as a log of your speed and driving hours so that if you got into an accident, the police could look at the taco, do forensics on it, and even work out things like how bad the crash was, what speed you were going at that moment. Wow, so it's like a black box. Yeah, if it was really bad, the graphite would just write out, shit. Yes, this is the tachograph, which is the now digital record of driving hours

known as a taco. Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We will start with Jack. This question has been sent in by Peter Young. During World Expo 88 in Brisbane, Australia, the City Council took out full-page newspaper adverts that implored residents not to fill their rubbish bins with mangoes. Why?

And I'll read that again. During World Expo 88 in Brisbane, Australia, the city council took out full-page newspaper adverts that implored residents not to fill their rubbish bins with mangoes. Why? Wow. What's happening at World Expo, 88? So I'd looked into this.

You know about these sort of world spheres that have just developed into expos. It's kind of a sort of welcome to the future. The theme was leisure time in a technological world or something. They basically always build a monorail. Like, you know, like you build like a, a big structure out of glass, and then when monorails are invented, you built monorails,

and that's what they really did. Seattle Monorail, World's Fair. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, they did have a monorail. I don't know if it still exists. That's slightly... Space Needle, World's Fair. Biosphere in Montreal, World's Fair.

World Spheres are amazing. The Sunsphere in Knoxville, Tennessee, I think, was just... It's a big building with like this golden sphere on top. Sure, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that just gets built for World's Fairs. Anyway, nothing to do with mangoes, I'm afraid.

So is it, I feel like the two angles here are either they residents were going to fill their bins unusually full of mangoes for whatever reason and then the government are basically like please don't do that because it's a waste or something or there are some like a normal amount of mangoes are going in the rubbish all the time but it causes a problem. I'm thinking like they want to clean up their city because they've got the world's fair and you know rats eat but they really really love mangoes so they're like can you you just hold off on the mangoes for this week. You know when like Boris Johnson during our Olympics

like sprayed all of London streets with like a sticky chemical that made the pollution stick to the roads? Instead of dealing with actual pollution solving, he just was like, oh, just for the Olympics, we'll just stick the pollution to the ground. Also, why don't we use that all the time if it's available? Like, why don't we

save it for the Olympics? Okay. World Expos go on for a long time. As we record this, the one in Osaka is still happening. But that's like a months-long expo, like national governments spend a lot of time and money building the pavilions. Like, this goes on for months. Clearly they might help you. The ads began appearing shortly after the event and started.

What city was this again? Brisbane in Australia. Was it reverse psychology? Did they want them to follow? Why would you want to do that? I don't know. Mangos are naturally occurring around Brisbane. I was about to say there's some government just shipping in huge amounts of mangoes but no, no, they're natural there. I like that, yeah.

So they're just on all like the street trees and stuff. Until they started going in bins. Were they being collected and used for something else? Like they had some exotic animals in the there and they were like, wait, we can feed them to the animals. But most people put them in the bins. There's also like a date, this is definitely not it, but there's a dating thing

where people are putting pineapples and, like, they're dropping baskets and there's like pineapple mania for single people. I think it's in America. Oh, and like, yeah, growing swingers. Like growing thing, if you're swingers, you grow stuff on your wall.

In your front garden, yeah. It's like put a mango in the bin. Someone will come in. I think I've been left out of something here because all three of you clearly know about this. No, and that's the wrong way to get on. I don't know. I have boldly claimed on shows in the past

that, oh, yeah, I know I've been somewhere and I've never seen that, so it's not a real thing. But I've been to Brisbane a couple of times and I can't remember there being a huge surfeit of mangoes being put into bins, but maybe I wasn't there in the right season. Well, are you looking in the bins, though? That's true.

That's true, but maybe everyone... But that's the thing, maybe there's a culture where people pick up the mangoes when they fall on the floor and they put them in the bins and it's just quite a good thing because people put away... I imagine the problem is that they're rotting, right?

and they're like going off and smelling. That must be in the middle of all the bins are going. But link it to the expo because that would be happening all year out. So there's something at the expo where they're going and they're like collecting loads of mangoes. And then they're returning from the expo and putting them in the bin. But then they're rotting in the bins.

And the council's like, we can't handle this much rotting fruit. Or is it normal for Brisbaneites? I'm going to go with Brisbaneites to put their mangoes in the bin because they have too many mangoes. And instead, they're being asked to take them to the expo. No, it's not that.

They don't normally have too many mangoes. Okay. So the mangoes are, there are more mangoes about in circulation because of the World's Fair. Correct. And Manu's right. They're bringing them home and then throwing them away. And are they putting whole mangoes in the bin? Are they, like, eating them and putting the leftovers?

I think they're whole mangoes. So another way in is to think, so the Expo was a major event that the expo was. city celebrated and celebrations went on well into the night. Partying with mangoes. Mango party. Walking with dinosaurs.

Partying with mangoes with Kenneth Brunner. No, so what sort of things happen when you celebrate? Not you specifically in your own house but like when a city is celebrating a global event. They make a mess. There's lots of noise.

A lot of street mess. That's the 90s. I'll... Drunk koalas. All right. Let me put a thing forward. I want to go in the bin with a little bit of alcohol

that's left over from something. They ferment... Yeah, like that prison wine. And the koalas are getting drunk on fermented mangoes and falling out the trees. I just fit a lot of Australian stereotypes in there. I'm really sorry. Australia.

But the problem is, Tom, that sounds like an amazing time. So I don't know why any order to stop that from happening. The waste collection services couldn't deal with the volume. But that's not, I mean, that's just a side effect of this quite interesting problem that they had. Did they plant loads of mango trees, more mango trees, because of the world's fair? That's a good point. So think local fauna. So these are animals that would eat mangoes?

Correct. So rat or ants or... Birds. Yeah, birds. What's the combination between a bird and a rat? Pigeon. A bat. A bat.

Pige? Oh, yeah. This is not the way we're supposed to work out the answer to this. I was thinking metaphorical, and then you're like, no, you just just put them together. Well, in French, they're known as flying mice, I think, aren't they? Suris volant or something. Okay, so the bats eat mangoes. They're sweet, aren't they? And bats like sweet things. Correct. And why would the bats not be doing their job?

They're not eating the insects. Well, no, it's cut out the insects. They're not eating the mangoes. Oh, because the partying has scared them all off. Correct. So there were fireworks every night of the expo, which were scaring the local colonies of fruit bats. And they would normally eat the mangoes while they're small and green. destroy the crop. But they were so scared away. And it ran for six months that then the mangoes were able to ripen,

fall into people's yards, and then they were binning them. And because there's quite heavy fruit. The bins got too heavy to lift. And they got a mature tree can drop hundreds per week. But yeah, just the sheer volume of fireworks every night. It scared away the firing. That's why I didn't see the mangoes. The bats had eaten up.

Exactly. Yeah. Did you see loads of bats flying around? Yes, actually. Really? It was a colony of flying foxes in Melbourne, but close enough. That's unbelievable, and also I can't believe that that was their solution to the issue rather than... Maybe we should stop scaring an entire population of bats away, like, it's ruining the ecology of the area. That's unbelievable.

Yeah, that's a good fact. Reason number 37 why Nissan is built for our winter. Because winter getaways should be cozy, not cold. Kick standard heated front seats and side mirrors help keep you warm, and your view clear. That's winter ready. Now, lease a 2026 kicks-ass front-wheel drive for 349 monthly at 3.9%. Or get $2,000 cash purchase bonus on remaining 2025 models. Visit your local Nissan dealer today or nisone.ca for more details. Least term for 48 months with 1,249 down conditions apply. Thank you to Michael for this question. One weekend, some of the founders of justin.tv,

the forerunner of Twitch, were trying to get their website to work. Soon they realized it was essential to call a pizza shop. Why? I'll say that again. One weekend, some of the founders of Justin TV, the forerunner of Twitch, were trying to get their website to work. Soon they realised it was essential to call a pizza shop.

Why? I mean, I can't think straight when I'm hungry, so my immediate thing is like, you need snacks when you're solving a hard problem. Could it be a specialist tool that only a pizza shop has? Would that be like a wood-fired oven or a paddle or a moped? All essential tools when you're launching and online level. Yeah.

Maybe some chopped pineapple, controversial. Or somebody there or somebody who worked there knew had the solution to their problem. Because I'm thinking, we did this in the pizza episode. Like, the pizza was always at the forefront of technology and the internet and online, right? Oh, yeah. Like the first ever food ordered online was a pizza, the first tracker, like use of GPS to, like, track domestic stuff for civilians was with dominoes, I think.

So, like, maybe they tested something by ordering a pizza and then they had to ring them up to, like, check that that's what actually happened or something like that. And then there was that one guy we had so many emails from listeners to say, you didn't mention this fact, but it was mentioned on QI, I think, which is why we ignored it, but someone in sort of 2009 paid something like 50 Bitcoin for a single pizza, back when Bitcoin's worth a fraction of a dollar. And, you know, so extrapolating, that's, you know, the most expensive pizza ever made. Anyway, we're offering a bit of a tangent, I think.

You have hit a couple of things, though. Yeah, we did a scatter gun approach. Yeah, yeah, if we talk about enough things, one of them is going to say. You're right, that delivery was an important part there. Jack, you mentioned the moped, that sort of thing. Okay. Oh, were they... Okay, so I'm trying to think of the era here.

So if it's a pre-cursor to Twitch, it's going to be, I don't know, 2010. Maybe Twitch or one, I think. Around that. Sure. So, like, midway through the internet's history so far. Yeah. And, like, online and delivering and tracking is, like, well in full flow. Oh, yeah.

It's not, yeah, yeah. Is it something to do with a GoPro? Manu, you're dressed like you work at Pizza Express right now. Oh, wow. Any ideas? Alex. What, that's a compliment. They're very well-dressed.

Is it? I mean, their door balls are amazing. I'll take that. It's something to do, like, speed of tracking an order and... What would they... Were they developers, or were they sort of front of camera? Oh, developers. Just in TV was originally just a live-stream-yourself site.

So, veering away from the video game angle. Mm-hmm. There's also that just... This is just the other thing that reminds me. the first ever webcam was set up to monitor a coffee machine so that people could see when the coffee machine was empty

is unbelievably lazy. Like, is it something like that? Is it like Liz Truss and the Lettuce? They had a pizza decomposing. That was their first Twitch. Or maybe it was to sort of calibrate something so that like you could tell if there was lag on the system

if like the doorbell went. That's so convoluted though. No, this is it, I know. This is an inside to where my brain goes. The pizza shop was in Tahoe on the California-Nevada border. Oh, it's to do time zones. Oh, no. I'll just head you off at the past there, having dealt with them before.

It's not time zones. Was it, were they ringing the pizza place? It was specifically to do with pizza and tracking. It wasn't just that they picked a pizza place because of its location, say, but it could have been the shop next door. I hate to say this, but neither of those answers. It's not about tracking the pizza. Okay.

But it would have to be a pizza shop. But you can ring a pizza shop, because it's open late at night as well, so maybe it was the middle of the night, so it was only things it was open back then. Yep. It was also on the weekend. Maybe they had a special author on? Is it something to do with the jurisdiction between Nevada and California? Were they running a competition, and the whole point is that it's live video,

and that people, they could get pizza. to prove that they were live by getting a pizza ordered to someone. They didn't actually order any pizza. But it's something about the live, it's something about that being live, right? Because if the whole thing is about streaming live video, no. Not really, no. No. They were trying to get the website to work, remember?

Oh, I see, yeah. What wasn't working about the website? Oh, basically everything. Okay. Oh, it's a rival faction that... No, no, no. Again, I don't know where my brain is. thinking there was some sort of mutiny amongst the developers that's like not quite but you're

starting to think in the right lines here yeah so some of them were they the ones who were working late did one of them have a second job working at the pizzeria pizza what do you know about tahoe as a lake mm-hmm and a and a pizza place yes yes one lot of other stuff there as well large swathes of the godfather too is set there I think oh okay but I don't think that helps Is it something, is it at one end of Silicon Valley? No, it's a really well-known vacation spot. Oh, for divorces. Sorry, what?

Well, that's Nevada generally. I think it had, in the mid-20th century, it had much more liberal divorce. Oh, okay. The opposite of Grant and the Green. Yeah, basically, yeah. But you've already said it's not the jurisdiction. The Tahoe itself, is it to do with geography?

Is it on a plateau or something? No. vacation spot's important. Vacation spot. So, I'm just a picture of the scene for you. Yeah. Some of the founders can't get the website to work. They call a pizza shop in vacation town of Tahoe.

What might that shop be able to do for them that they can't do themselves? Maybe, like, contact people in some way. Yeah. They're really popular. The holiday makers. Yeah, it's a vivid day. And they could write something on every pizza and be like, visit the website or something. Or is there a colleague of theirs that's having pizza at the shop?

And they're like... He's not having it at the shop. He's not having it at home. They don't know where he is, but they know he's going to order pizza. So they're like, every pizza thing that goes out. Alex, I need you to kind of completely invert that what you just said. Okay. They want to lose a colleague.

You said they don't know where he is and they know he's having pizza. They know where he is, but they don't know what pizza he's having. They do know where he is. He's, oh, he's on holiday. They need to send him a message. Yep. And because he's on holiday, he's out of offices on.

He's not checking his emails. Yep. So they need to send him a pizza with, like, a customized gift delivery note. Yes. Oh. Yet one of the co-founders, Kyle Voight, had taken a rare vacation, leaving the others to look after the site. It had broken.

They couldn't fix it. And they couldn't get him on the phone. Oh, wow. But they knew where he was. Yeah. Like, talk about world-life boundaries. Like, leave it alone. So they rang a pizza shop nearby.

They didn't order a pizza. They just sent them some money and asked them to courier a message to him. Oh. This is pre-GDPR, I'm assuming. It's like that guy who broke up with his girlfriend and then she blocked him on every single, on, you know, social media, his number.

And then he just, like, bank transferred a penny saying, please call as the reference Manu whenever you're ready it's your question okay this question has been sent in by Anonymous

one morning Sarah was required to bring in donuts for her co-workers in the name of corporate security why so one morning Sarah was required

to bring in donuts for her co-workers in the name of corporate security Why? I have something completely random. This is propped into my head. But there's a thing with internet companies that deal in cybersecurity.

And they often have to generate a lot of random numbers and code. And it's very, very hard for computers to generate random numbers and code because they're computers. And so often a method of doing that is to take something that's truly random in the real world and, like, say, for example, film it. So there's a company that does, like, cybersecurity, that famously has a whole wall full of lava lamps with a camera pointing at it,

and then the specific, obviously, completely random and unpredictable movements of the lava lamps are interpreted down into some numbers, and that creates randomness. How much of that actually goes into their randomness is up for debate, but yes, that's... Certainly as a publicity stunt, it's very good. Absolutely, yeah.

And I wonder whether, like, ordering a dozen random doughnuts from Christy Creme is a key part of their business model. Uh, no. I love it. I love it. I love it. There's a thing called pen testing, penetration testing, which is, can you get past the security? Oh, yeah. And that can be digital, or it can be turning up with a thing. Like the old British standard is that you turn up to a construction site with a high-vis and a tray of tea, or a hive is that a high-vis and a clipboard, and everyone will let you through.

And you say, can you open the door, my hands are full? Yeah, like a box of donuts will let you tailgate in. That feels like the American version. But... No, I like thinking. Her colleagues, like, it was... She was asked to bring it in by her colleagues. Was one of them on holiday, and they were in.

No. I think the kind of the physical element is really interesting. Like, you should... You can follow that. Okay. The jam inside the doughnuts? I think... Yeah, more the kind of action of physically going and breaching security is, yeah.

I suppose if you, so is it about the bringing in a set of donuts and going around to every person's desk with a donut? So you get to see everyone's screen or something. Ah, yeah. Or it gets everyone away from their desk at some point as they go to pick up a donut. Yeah, everyone runs to the donuts, yeah. I was thinking it was a more personality test. You bring a variety. and then the one he picks the sort of pink-glazed one is the weakest of the pack.

I'd say what, it would be so embarrassing if their security is thwarted by everyone going, ooh, donuts, and everyone runs away in their town, and then he just sit down and look to their email. It'd be so embarrassing if the psychological profile was based on donuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true. In the name of corporate security.

So, okay, who could have ordered these? So, like, is it going to be, like, human resources? Or is it going to be someone from inside the company? or is it going to be someone else? Is it going to be like the FBI? It does sound like an unpleasant job if she was required to do it. She didn't volunteer, I presume.

Yeah, I feel like she's walking in like a hostage negotiator, like sweating, like shaking with the donuts. She wasn't the one to suggest bringing donuts in. And she wasn't following a company policy. Oh, is this like corporate espionage? So was she working for Coca-Cola? and Pepsi were like, oh, deliver these donuts.

Well, she might be working for a donut company. Yeah. It might be like a recall or a rival donuts or something. And they're testing to see whether they've been nicked. I think going back to the going around the office, looking at other people's computers is really good. But I would flip that on its head. Going around with the people's computers looking at their donuts.

So do you mean by drawing people away from their desks By putting the doughnuts somewhere And seeing who leaves their computer unlocked It's like kind of the opposite So the donuts are more of the end of the story They're the consequence Is it like Homer Simpson spilling donuts on his Like on the control panel

So it's the irresponsible employees that eat donuts at their desk Is it that they actually didn't tell anyone and she left them in the kitchen. And then the last person to get a donut was clearly the best at staying at their desk. She was quite a dystopian way to measure productivity. But that's not really security, isn't it? No, I suppose.

Oh, you guys are so close. I'm sure. I can beat with it. She, like, she is the one that's messed up. Oh, so she's apologising with the donuts. Oh, there are places where if you screw up, the corporate culture is you apologize with a thing. Yeah, it's like a forfeit, right? Yeah.

Right. It's like if you get a hole in one in a golf club, you have to pay for like a round of drinks for the whole bar. Okay, yeah, yeah. If you click on the fishing email. Not exactly, but you are very, very close. She leave her laptop on a train. She worked for the government.

And because of the massive lack of accountability in this country, all she has to do is buy some donuts. Oh, it's so, it's. So close. She left her computer unlocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm just measuring your reactions to every word I say. So she left a computer unlocked and then they changed the password to you have to buy us some donuts.

Oh, that's, that is so close. I think, I think you've got that. So the office had a policy that, yeah, employees had to lock their computers when leaving them unattended for any length of time. Sarah left hers unlocked for a while and a co-worker used it to send. an email around as if they were Sarah offering to bring in donuts and this caught on as like a kind of company culture if you left your computer unlocked it became like a competition to go and like send that email to everyone so you had to buy donuts that's quite nice that's actually quite nice

it's really nice I remember doing something similar when someone left Facebook open and I'd be like is stupid as a status oh I remember that So embarrassing. Yeah, so good. Thank you to Louise Hubbard, Ben and Jake for sending this next question in. In November 2018, a large department store in Newcastle-upon-time, England, spent a small fortune on their festive display. However, a nearby branch of Greggs simply turned their sign around. Why? I'll say that again. In November 2018, a large department store in Newcastle-upon-time, England, spent a small fortune on their festive display. However, a nearby branch of Greggs simply turned their sign around.

Why? Is this one of those ambigrams? That's what I'm thinking, where you can read it something different upside down. So there's some word for pasty or something that's going to read differently when it's upside down. It does make me think of possibly the best Christmas branding on the High Street is Leon, the fast food, like, healthy place, which just changes theirs to Noel. Oh, brilliant. Oh, no.

Is it like the back of the sign is a mirror or something and they were opposite the display and then they were like, we're just going to use the reflection. Oh, oh, keep going, Manu. Oh, that's as far as I got. Okay, reflection of the... They turn their sign around. That's basically it, yes.

But why would they do that? Why are they going to use the reflection all of a sudden? Because they... because the first shot made a massive backwards Christmas display. So if you look at the reflection, it's going to be the right way around. Well, presumably Gregs want to turn people towards Greggs. Yes. And probably away from the department store.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, you even hit the key word there, which was reflection. And is this linked to Christmas? I'm trying to think what's reflected about Christmas. You're right. It said festive display. It didn't necessarily say Christmas, actually. Ooh.

It is the Christmas display, yeah. It's a time for reflection, isn't it? The lights being reversed. reflected off the display? Yes. Pinging? Oh, you're so close here. This must happen quite a lot.

Have a think of the scene here. Where are you setting the scene? Okay, in my mind, you're already within the department store. There's like a Santa's Grotto under the escalators, and there's a branch of Gregg's, like, within, you know, visible distance. We are not inside the department store here. Okay, so you're opposite. department store.

Mm-hmm. Like on the high street, yeah. Yep, this is a high street window display. Like, a lot of the department stores have. Like, just, they just, instead of having the clothes and whatever, they just have a big old festive display in there. Sure, sure. And is, and is the reflection in the window of Greg's? No, it's got to be in the department store, I think.

It's, oh, you're so nearly there. I'm just to let you see... OAC, so the department stores, like, display was very mirror-based, and you could see the Greggs inside the... No, but then Greg's... wouldn't have to do anything. Why would they have to turn the sign around? Because they're backwards in the mirror, so therefore you... Oh, so Gregs just flip the sign so that you could read it. You've got all the keywords apart from mirror here.

Like, it is, I guess, technically a mirror, but there's something else, more obvious for high street display. Oh, it's a disco ball or a... Oh, it's just the glass. It's just the glass. It's just the glass. It's just the glass. This is a high street shop with a big old window display in front. Okay. So why... Taking photos, taking selfies? Ah, taking photos.

So, the shop has set out its display behind the glass. Folks are coming up, they're gauping at the display, they're taking the pictures and posting them to social media. And in the background of every one of those is the reflection of Greg's, the right way round. Oh, that's so good. That's so good. So cool.

Because, yeah, it'll be backlit, won't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This big old bright Greg's bakery logo is just ruining. ruining every single shot of that display. That's so good. I love that. So clever.

Alex, over to you. This question has been sent in by Oliver R. G. Norman and Casey Ford. Thanks to a necessary change in the shirt layout, beer company Moulson could proudly advertise itself as the hidden sponsor of PWHL. What was the change and why we were? was it needed? Thanks to a necessary change in the shirt layout, beer company Moulson could

proudly advertise itself as the quote-unquote hidden sponsor of the PWHL. What was the change and why was it needed? Oh, I think, I think I might be close to this one. Okay. Should I save my thoughts? Yeah. All right. I am thinking, and I hope I've not gone straight to this. P-W-H-L. P-W-H-L. You are on the right lines. You haven't got it all right. Oh, okay, okay. But Moulson's Canadians, so I was thinking hockey. Yeah, well, I think you should stick on that road. Okay. I think it's somewhere else, it's like the, I can't think of anywhere in Canada. I mean, P, but, you know, Pennsylvania Women's Hockey League or something. Okay, yes, even closer, yes. Okay, so, and then I'm also thinking, like, did they,

it's a specific phrase the sort of shirt structure did you say shirt design yeah so I think the layout layout yeah so I think they might like

have some buttons or something and so that when you when you open it as you do every hockey game to reveal your bare chest it's something to do with like the thing being split in half and reading differently

yes you're on another right track there as well it reminds me of this is a bit of a tangent but it's related in the Six Nations the Welsh rugby team were sponsored by a brewery and they were called

Brains in fact which is quite a good name for brewery and then when they played in France there are different laws about advertising alcohol so they weren't allowed to wear the shirt so they had new ones made

that had the same font and it just said brawn which I thought was great nice clever way around was it maybe like rolling up the sleeves or something to do as the shirts compressed somehow.

What do we know about hockey? Don't they wear pads? Like shoulder pads. I'm trying to think. And it was a necessary shirt layout change. It was thanks to a necessary change in the shirt layout. So if they had a shirt layout, it had to be changed. And on a women's hockey league.

Yes. And then thanks to that change, the beer company could then advertise itself as the hidden sponsor. Oh, is it something to do with making room for boobs? That's the only third difference I can think. But I don't know where stuff would be hidden, so that's not. Yeah, I would carry on down that road. Really?

Not necessarily specifically that, but you're in the general area of, like, it's a good thought. It's a good thought. When you say general area? No, not that area. Moulson's make C-O-O-R-S I see where you're going

No, it's not. No, it's not that, no. Is there something around the chest area of a shirt? No. It's on the back or the sleeves, maybe. Yes. There are the three parts of a shirt. Yes.

Or collar, maybe. And we don't, I assume we don't need to guess the P, that's not going to help us. No. No. It's just a location or a university. No, you've got the important letters already. So maybe the design changed

because they based it on the men's hockey uniform and then had to change something for the women's. Is it a bit more cinched in at the waist? One of us is going to get in trouble here, Jack. Yeah, I know. I'm dancing around something. But you're definitely on the right lines of they change the design because of that. Wait, is it on the back or on the sleeves?

Yes, it's on the back. On the back. Is it, like, physically fitting in more letters? Is it to do with spacing? Yeah, it's about spacing and letters and, yeah. Is it to do with their shirt number? It's actually not to do with the number. That's the only bit that it's not to do with.

I don't know much about hockey. I genuinely thought that sentence was going to end with women. I'm really sorry. I don't know why. I think maybe try and picture the back of one of these players and what's on there and what you'll see it. Oh, is it a ponytail? Yes, okay, yeah.

Oh, goodness. Okay, yeah, I was just trying to take what. Keep talking, Manor. Yeah. All right. So the ponytail's in the way. So they have to, like, change the spacing of the letters so that the ponytail doesn't fall in front of one of them.

Or, like, change a design so that their hair can flow back. That's 100% the gist of it, yes. So it's just such late stage capitalism that you have. have to change your shirt so the hair doesn't get in front of the sponsors. Well, think of us think about the question, though. Thanks to a necessary change in the shirt layout, beer company could now proudly advertise itself as the hidden sponsor of VWHL. Hidden sponsor.

So did they move the name down to like the lumber or somewhere low and swap it with the sponsor? Yes, that is exactly what they did. So this was the professional women's hockey league, which was founded in 2003. And quickly it became apparent that the shirts had a design floor. If the players had long hair,

which women more often tend to do and have ponytails, the surname at the top of the shirt was obscured. So you couldn't see which player it was. So they moved the player number... Sorry, they moved the surname to below the player number so that they could read it.

And they had to then put the sponsor somewhere else and under the initiative, quote, see my name, the Canadian beer company Moulson stepped in to sponsor the top of the shirt which is no longer of any use and then one of their taglines read

we covered our name so hers could be seen so they're a bit kind of soft boy about it but you know yeah that's brilliant I love it yeah it's kind of like yeah it was the opposite of late stage capitalism but actually maybe just sort of even more you know they found a way to make it work didn't they yeah yeah yeah oh amazing One final thing then, which is the question I asked right at the start of the show.

Thank you to Katie Waining for sending this one in. Where in Spain can you find a dial that can be turned to tomato, wine or olive oil? Does anyone want to take a shot at that before I tell the audience the answer? We've done this. We've done all those three episodes, yeah. Oh, I thought you'd done this specific thing. Oh, no, we have. No, man who knows?

Yeah, I do. Do you remember it, Jack? We got so excited about this for QI research. It's a washing machine setting. It absolutely is. Yes. Explain it. Oh, so it's for different stains.

So some of them have blood as well. Like, it's not just food. It's so funny. Yes, these are certain brands of washing machines for the Spanish and Portuguese market, which have particular settings for tomato stain, wine stain, an olive oil stain. Thank you very much to our players. Where can people find the podcast? What's going on there? We will start with Jack. So you can go to QI.com slash lunchbox, or you could just go wherever you find your podcasts and find us with Lunchbox Envy. And we're on social media at

Lunchbox Envy Pod. And Mano, what sort of things will they find there? So we've just done a load of research on sandwiches. And I brought in a historical one, which was carbon carb, carb, carb, goodness, Mrs. Beaton's toast sandwich, and everyone loved it. Alex, in particular. It was really really delicious. And Alex, as producer, what is the worst food you've had to deal with on that show so far? I think without a doubt, turnip ice cream. I think I made it. I keep making these horrible foods and I never tried them and that was maybe one of the worst ones. I think everyone really hated that one. Well, thank you very much for running our gauntlet today. If you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcass.com. We can also send out your own ideas for questions.

At Lateralcast, basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify. Thank you very much to Alex Bell. Thank you, Tom. Manuel Anrio. Thank you. And Jack Changers. Thank you very much. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.